ZBA Hearing - October 12, 2021

We're ready to begin.

chair there are 68 attendees we are ready when you are

you'd say six eight didn't you yes

um okay uh good morning everyone uh before i begin i'm gonna apologize for the delay we were

having some technical difficulties. Having said that, my name is Frank DiCicco. I'm the chair of

the Zoning Board of Adjustment. I'll be participating in today's hearing along with our

Vice Chair, Ms. Carol Tenere. Present. Board Secretary, Confessor Plaza. Present. Board

Members, Mr. Thomas Holloman. Present, Mr. Chairman. And Mr. James Snell. Present. Board

Administrator Lakeisha Dandy, and our Board Attorney Ms. Sharon Saleta are also in attendance,

as is our Zoning Board Administrator Ms. Tanya Sunkett. For those of you who haven't yet

participated in one of our virtual hearings, I'll go through some of the basics of what you can

expect. First, we will be administering oaths to individual participants prior to their testimony.

Second, we'd like to advise everyone that this proceeding is being recorded,

and that by participating, you acknowledge your agreement to be recorded

and that the recording will be made available to the public

by contacting our board administrator, Ms. Tanya Sunkit at tanya.sunkit at phila.gov.

Third, for anyone participating by phone, if you wish to testify,

you must raise your hand by hitting star nine and then star six to unmute yourself.

I'll repeat. For anyone participating by phone, if you wish to testify, you must raise your hand

by hitting star nine and then star six to unmute yourself. Finally, to enter an appearance statement,

call Google 267-270-5548 and leave your email address and the address of the property at issue.

I will repeat that. To enter an appearance statement, call Google 267-270-5548 and leave

your email address and the address of the property at issue. And I'd like to remind everyone at this

time, please do not attempt to testify in the chat. Any comments, questions or concerns should

be directed to our Board Administrator Ms. Lakeisha Dandy. Having said that, I will begin by

doing some house cleaning as it relates to this case. This is a resumption hearing on appeals

against O&I, filed by the Greater Busselton Civic League and Sandemeyer Steel Corporation.

These appeals have been consolidated for the purposes of the hearing.

The board has reviewed materials submitted by all parties, and would like to begin by making a few preliminary announcements.

First, the appellant's requests for subpoenas are denied.

Second, the board will begin today's hearing by allowing Mr. Orfanides to continue his questioning of examiner, and I apologize if I mispronounce your name, Chili Daha, D-A-H-A-L, for a maximum of one half hour.

Mr. Cattuzzi and Mr. Primavera will then be permitted to question Ms. Dollar.

Third, following Ms. Dollar's testimony, the board will hear testimony from the designated L&I supervisor,

whose testimony will be limited to confirming the department's position that the challenge permits were properly issued.

Were properly, excuse me, properly issued.

the board will then hear testimony limited testimony necessary sorry to establish the

appellant's standing no other testimony will be permitted at the conclusion of the hearing

each party will be given a maximum of 10 minutes to present closing arguments

the board will then allow and we'll go forward from there so um who was first up is it mr orphan

Is it Mr. Orfanides?

needs? Chair, if I could suggest that all of the

Chair, if I could suggest that all of the attorneys involved be promoted.

It hurts.

We can spell it.

Yeah, we'll get them on the record.

That would be Joseph Kutuzzi, David Orfanides, Len Reuter, Carl Primavera, Paul Turner, and Maggie White.

Let's start with Mr. Orfanides' full name.

Spell your name and I'll swear you in and then we'll go down the list.

Yes, may you raise your hands, please, if your name was called?

can you hear me yes uh david orphan you want me to identify myself uh yes please and i'll swear

you swear you in or david orphanetes orphanetes and toner uh two penn center 1500 john f kennedy

boulevard suite 800 philadelphia pennsylvania 19102 and i'm here please please spell your

full the last name sure it's o-r-p-h-a-n-i-d-e-s and i'm here uh with my partner paul toner

who's also uh been added as a panelist um and we are here this morning on behalf of our client

the greater busselton civic league you swear for him to tell the truth the whole truth nothing

but the truth i do let's get mr turner on and then we'll get to mr primavera and his team

we can't hear you hello you're muted yeah can you hear me now david you're muted

david you're muted there you go

try that can you hear me now mr chico yes yes we can

Paul Turner with Orphanetes and Turner Council, Mr. Orphanetes for the greater and less intensively.

We're affirming to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

I do.

Okay, Mr. Primavera?

Chair, excuse me, this is Sharon.

There's actually one more attorney working with Mr. Orphanetes.

That would be Andrew Ross.

Okay, I didn't see his name.

I apologize.

So, Mr. Ross, are you out there?

If so, please raise your hand, unmute yourself.

I don't see him out there.

He's coming in now as a panelist.

Thank you.

Mr. Ross, you can unmute yourself.

Mr. Ross, please spell your last name and I'll swear you in.

You're muted, Mr. Ross.

All right, why don't we do this?

we'll go to Carl Primavera's team, then we'll come back to Mr. Ross. Carl? Yes, Carl Primavera,

P-R-I-M-A-V-E-R-A, and I represent the Intervenor Permit Holder, which is Relativa LLC

and its affiliate CDC and the ultimate tenant user UPS. You're a firm to tell the truth,

the whole truth, nothing but the truth? I do, thank you. Thank you. Next on your team, Mr.

Mr. Cattuzzi. I'm actually, uh, Mr. DeCicco, uh, Joe Cattuzzi on behalf of Sam Meyer Steel

Company. I'm with the law firm of Stradley Road. Okay. Uh, let, let's, who else is on your team

with us, uh, Carl? Uh, there should only be, uh, Melanie Lacey, but only for the purposes of

assisting me if I have technical difficulty. So, uh, it's just me, uh, participating. Thank you.

All right. So, all right, let me go back to you, Mr. Cattuzzi. Please spell your name and I'll swear you in.

Morning. Joseph Cattuzzi, C-A-T-U-Z-Z-I, on behalf of Sandmeyer Steel Company.

We're a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Yes.

I see, Mr. Toner, I think we did get you, right? Maggie White, Law Department.

this is maggie white on the on behalf of the department of licenses and inspections

we're from to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do thank you mr reuter

uh good morning uh may please the board leonard f reuter senior attorney for the city of philadelphia

let me spell your last name please i'm sorry r-e-u-t-e-r we're from to tell the truth the

T-E-R.

We're a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

whole truth, nothing but the truth?

I do.

I do.

Did I leave anyone out, either on the appellant side or the applicant side?

If I did, please raise your hand.

Here we have Melanie Lacey.

Melanie Lacey.

I believe Melanie is assisting Mr. Primavera.

That is correct.

It's technical, right, okay.

Okay, Chair, she's coming back in as a panelist now.

Excuse me, Chair, you're muted.

Mr. Chair, may I?

Hold on, yes.

Yes, we have Leonard Reuter, Leonard Reuter. Thank you. This is Leonard Reuter speaking. I see that we do now have Chelly Dahal as a panelist. She will be the witness who I believe Mr. Orfanidi is going to continue questioning. We do have another witness who is from Illinois. If I could ask that he be made a panelist, his name is Jais Skaria.

so it's j-a-i-s-s-k-a-r-i-a um and jace if you could just uh raise your hands so the

yeah let's let him identify himself and i'll swear him right i would we'll want him to make sure that

he um is able to and he just needs audio location yes for now for now yes right he may be called

later to testify but for now he just needs audio Shelly will need um video when when it's her turn

Mr. Hall uh please spell your full name I'll swear you in

you're muted I'm not

Ms. the hall you're muted

you

Ms. Dahal, please unmute yourself.

There you go.

Please spell your first and last name.

C-H-E-L-I-D-A-S-A-L.

Do you swear to affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Yes.

Did the court reporter get that spelling?

C-H-E-L-I-D-A-T-H-A

I'm asking the court reporter.

Yes, I did.

Were you able to get that spelling?

Yes.

Okay.

And I think I said we'd go back to Ms. Lacey.

Melanie Lacey, please spell your first and last name.

Oh, good morning.

name is spelled m-e-l-a-n-i-e last name l-a-c-e-y these were from to tell the truth

the whole truth nothing but the truth i do i won't be testifying though i know just in case

okay thank you sometimes things happen around here we don't plan for sometimes

i think is there anyone who will be either on the applicant or the

protestant side that

needs to be sworn in. Any other lawyers out there?

If so.

I'm not seeing the other person that was supposed to testify.

Mr. Chair, it looks like Andrew Ross

is appearing as Paul Toner.

Oh, yeah, it is. I'm looking at it now. Andrew, please

spell your full name and I'll swear you in.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A-N-D-R-E-W-R-O-S-S.

You swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

I do.

Thank you. I believe all the principal folks have been sworn in.

Having said that, I believe Mr. Orfanides, you're up first.

Mr. DiGico, also, as far as swearing people in, we heard what you stated at the beginning of the hearing,

But we had months ago submitted a list of witnesses, offers of proof.

They included our traffic expert, Andy Heinrich, a planner, John Gibbons, an economic specialist, Jim Hartling,

Jack O'Hara, who's the head of the, who's involved with Greater Busselton Civic League,

Michael Herskovitz, David Bauer, Bruce Sloan, Lenny Greenfield, and Bill Hill are all members of the Greater Busselton Civic League

of the um greater busselton civic league and either live or work on properties in the immediate

and either live or work.

vicinity of the subject premises they are here today to testify and we would ask that they be

sworn in and if they're on permit they're not being permitted to testify we object

um to the preclusion of them as as witnesses in this matter as they're uh truly relevant

and would provide substantial evidence regarding the issues the specific issues involved in this

case excuse me this is sharing um mr chair if i may explain that the board has reviewed all the

materials submitted including the offers of proof has determined that the testimony of anyone

other than the witnesses as named this morning will not be permitted

and again we object to the preclusion of these witnesses um because we obviously disagree and

feel that given the nature of the matter given the the lack of information that was provided to

the examiner mr your objection you may state this in closing arguments okay thank you sean

so mr hall is on

yes okay and may i share the screen and utilize the um our exhibits that were submitted to the board

can everybody see that yes

uh mr hall um mr uh good morning how are you this morning

if you can enlarge that that would be helpful oh yes sir

that's good thank you okay okay so mr hall um council for the city mr reuter provided us

with some screenshots of um what's known as the eclipse system um and can you describe for the

the board real briefly what the Eclipse system is.

This is a, you are asking me?

This is a new system and the applicant has to apply online.

Then the document must be uploaded

in applicant document section and then we review it

and then we give the permit.

If we need the more information, we mark up on the plan

and they will provide the information.

And then we issue the permit if everything is correct.

And Mr. Hall, so what I have up on the screen right now,

there are two zoning permit applications

and zoning permits at issue in this case.

And they are ZP2020000653 and ZP202010545, correct?

Yes.

Okay.

And were you the examiner for both of those permit applications?

Yes.

And did you issue both of those permits as a matter of right to the applicant?

Yes.

Okay.

And what I have up on the screen right now that's being reviewed by the board, which everybody who's on the Zoom call right now, is that is a screenshot from Eclipse, correct?

Got it.

And that is regarding ZP 2020-000-653, correct?

Yes, got it.