Everybody in. Yes.
Okay, Chair,
seems like we only have 10 attendees okay that's probably the quick because we do have a couple
of cases that are four and five more the case okay that's fine thank you good morning my name
is bill bergman and i will be chairing this morning's dba hearings with hearings with me
is carol tanari our vice chair present mr chairman ismail shahid our board secretary
and Thomas Holloman, our board member.
We also have with us our board attorney, Hillary Emerson.
Before we begin, here's our virtual format.
Be advised these proceedings are being recorded.
By participating, you acknowledge your agreement to be recorded.
A video will be available by contacting our Executive Director, Tanya Sunkett, at phil .gov.
For the benefit of our court sonographer, we ask attorneys and witnesses to identify themselves before testifying.
If you are participating by phone, and if you wish to testify, press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute.
To enter an appearance statement, call 267 -270 -5548. Leave your email and the address
of the property in question. And last, please note the question answer box is not for testimony
or comments. Any comments should be directed to our executive director, Tanya Sunken. So first
of all, let's look at continuances for this morning's meeting.
number six mi 2021 001 959 2349 north 20 street this case will be continued mark must be tried
for the next listing and number seven mi 2022 000 666 2452 west toronto street that case is
continued. Are there any other cases that there's continuance requests for?
I see no hands, Chair. Thank you. We're going to go to our first case that's an add -on. MI 2021
005 -122 -7511 to 19 Stenton Avenue. Good morning, Mr. Chair. Sorry, Mr. Chair,
This is Hillary. I'm recusing myself from this case, and Amy Gaylor is filling in on my behalf.
Thank you. Thank you, Hillary. I vote yes with the following provisos. No blinking lights or signs
on signs. No flashing colors, lighting, or letters on sign. Hours of illumination for signs,
Monday to Friday, 9A to 5P, and Saturday, 8A to 1P.
garyl i'm not voting on this case oh i'm thomas thomas holloman thomas holloman my vote is yes
thank you we're now going to our regular list number one mi 2021
221 -003530 -2237 North 3 Street.
Henry Clinton is the attorney.
Mr. Clinton is coming back in as a panelist.
Morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
Morning, Mr. Clinton.
Could you spell your name for the court reporter, please?
Sure. Henry, H -E -N -R -Y, Clinton, C -L -I -N -T -O -N.
Henry, H -E -N -R -Y, Clinton, C -L -I -N -T -O -N.
Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Right.
We'd like to hear all your five cases together. Is that okay?
Yes. I think that's a very good move.
So the first one is MI 2021 003530 2237 North Street.
Street. Number two, MI 2021 003529 2233 North Street. MI 2021 003528 2231 North Street. Number
four MI 2021 003525 2214 North 3 Street and number five MI 2021 003526 2225 North 3 Street
letter of support on all five from NARS Square Community Alliance our vice hope by the way
Your client, please, Mr. Clinton.
Yes, the owner of the property is 2020 Reese LLC, but both members of that LLC are on the
Leo Osilovich, that's I -O -S -I -L -E -V -I -C -K, and Jerry Namor, N -E -Y -M -U -R.
Both are on the phone call.
Thank you.
Our vice chair, Carol Tenere, has a few questions.
Good morning, Mr. Clinton.
Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
Have you emailed the exhibit packet for all of these cases with proof of ownership, tax compliance, a copy of the refusal or referral, photos under plans of the property five days in advance of this hearing, and have you met with the RCO, and do you have letters?
Yes, to all of you, Bob.
Okay, great. You may proceed and begin with sharing your screen.
Thank you.
Thank you.
uh is that large enough to say it's good okay good morning mr chairman members of the board
henry clinton uh on behalf of 2020 reese llc uh and we're here today to discuss five properties
on the 2200 block of reese street uh the refusals are all the same except for 2231 reese the
refusals uh have to do with uh this is an rsa5 single family zoning district and the request
is to have each of these properties a two -family dwelling. So the refusals are the same, except
for, as I say, 2231. And I'll show you, there's an extra refusal there for open space. The code
calls for open space of 25%, and we have 25 .13%. So I'm arguing, taking the position, that's a
de minimis variation. So throughout this presentation, I'm basically going to say that
all the refusals for all five properties are the same. This is my table of contents,
including exhibits AA through A10, which I ask to be admitted into evidence today. This is my
appearance statement, and this is the refusal. Again, I'll walk through each one. This is 2214,
refused because two -family household living is not permitted in an RSA 5 zoning district.
Likewise with 22 -25, 22 -31, and here's what I pointed out to the board, the occupied area is a little bit off by 0 .13 percentage points.
The next property is 22 -33, same thing, RSA -5 requesting a two -family dwelling, and the last property is 22 -37.
We do have a letter of support from NARA Square Community Alliance, and one of the reasons we had that letter of support is because there was concern about having one large single -family home on the block, or five of them on the block, and the affordability of that particular single -family home.
So my client has committed that each of these two family dwellings will be condominiums.
And you can see it's in the letter of support because everyone thought that you had it as a two family, three story dwelling.
You can make it more affordable. Plus, these lots have been long, long vacant.
And I'll show you an aerial photograph depicting the block.
So this is the 2200 block of Reese Street. The property's involved.
there's one on the even side of the street, the west side of the street. The others are
on the east side of the street. None of them are adjacent to an existing property other than
2225, and 2225 is two uses. There's commercial on the first, and there's residential above.
and there's residential above.
Again, just another perspective,
we're looking northbound, the vacant lots,
four of them are on the odd side of the street,
one on the even side.
Again, just some perspectives,
and this is that two -use building commercial
in the first residential above,
and we're looking north again,
and now we're looking south
to give you another perspective.
And this is the vacant lot where 2225 hopefully will be constructed.
And this is the building adjacent, as I indicate.
There's two uses here, commercial on the first and residential above.
The plans, Mr. Chairman, and members of the board are all the same for all five.
So I thought what I might do with the chair's permission is just discuss one layout,
because the layout for all five are the same that's fine okay basically we have a three -story
property with brick and the the bays will either be stucco or a metal seam standing seam
siding the first floor and basement will be one unit the second floor and third floor will be one
unit the second and third floor will have open space on the rooftop deck first floor and second
floor, we'll be able to descend into a rear yard. And I'd just like to point out we have no refusals
for height or for rear yards. The rear yards are typically more than 10 feet and nine feet are
called for in the code. And our open space is good with every project or every property,
except for the one which I mentioned 2213.
again this is i have five in a row so i'm going to just go through these and move to the floor
plan because again they're all the same the lots are about 55 feet deep the property lines vary
from 14 to 16 so they're significant size lots and then the floor plans a little bit the
overdrawn here because the electrical outlets and other items are drawn into each property,
but basically we have the basement and first floor. That would be a three -bedroom unit with
two full baths. And then we have the second and third floor, again, with three bedrooms
and two full baths with a rooftop deck.
Again, just a cross -section of each property.
Again, I don't want to continually repeat myself,
but all the floor plans and all the elevations are the same.
And I don't mean to go through this quickly,
but I don't want too much redundancy.
Again, the tax certifications,
We have tax certifications for every property.
And then the rest of the documents are the pro forma documents that you would typically see in a presentation such as this.
For application, the zoning map, the deed indicating ownership.
And again, I have an application for each of the five.
There's a zoning map reflecting RSA 5.
I have a zoning map included for every property involved.
Again, all RSA 5. And the deed indicates this is my client, and they purchased the property back in 2019.
So, Mr. Chairman, members of the board, I think we have some unique circumstances here.
I can't say we have unique physical circumstances, but I think we have some unique circumstances where we have long vacant lots on a block that's not really developed.
The community group would like to see the property, excuse me, the block develop.
And the way they see that happening is if a developer will come in and try to make these units two -family, sell them as two -family, sell them as condominiums, individuals can have their own home ownership, they become members of the community and members of the block, and just would add vibrancy to the whole area.
We're not going to impact lighter air development on either side of the property.
We are in harmony, generally with the code.
Again, there's no issues with regard to the rear yard other than that de minimis at 2213 rear yard.
We're okay with height.
And so we're just asking the board to look at this as a long -term project for everybody involved.
Now, again, as other projects come up, perhaps a community group will say, look, we don't want any more two families.
We've already jumpstarted the block and we may look at other future projects and say single family only.
look at other future projects and say single family only but in this circumstance because
whether this circumstance
of what i've outlined they're in a wholehearted agreement with two family dwellings in this rsa
5 zoning district and with that i would open the floor for questions or have my client
adopt my testimony mr why don't you have your client adopt your testimony
sure leo can you uh raise your hand and the administrator will unmute you
hi this is leo hi could you state your name and spell for the court reporter please
hey my name is leo islevich so it's l -e -o and my last name is i -o -s -i -l -e -v like victor
i -c -h right do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
I do. Proceed, Mr. Clinton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Isilovich, you were on the Zoom
call when I just gave this presentation, were you not? Yes. And if you had the opportunity to
testify, would you adopt my testimony as your own, and would you find that testimony true and
correct? Yes. Thank you, Leo. I appreciate it. What questions from the board? No, Mr. Chairman.
questions or comments from the virtual audience chair we have sloan folks
good morning mr folks
good morning mr folks
he's unmuted chair i'm not sure what's going on
Mr. Folks?
Looks like there's some technical issues.
He might need to leave and come in.
He's not even showing up on my end.
I'll text him, Mr. Chairman.
IT'S YOUR CALL, CHAIR.
LET'S WAIT ONE MINUTE HERE.
MR. FOLKS USUALLY GOES ALONG WITH NARA SQUARE COMMUNITY ALLIANCE IS.
i just texted mr german are there any but bob we're waiting is there any other comments from
the virtual audience we have mr folks on a different device fine thank you mr folks good
morning good morning chairman can you hear me well we hear you now could you i apologize that's okay
Hey, state your name and spell for the court reporter, please.
Yes, good morning.
Sloan Fuchs, S -L -O -A -N -E -F is a fire, O -L -K -S, Office of Councilwoman Maria CUNY Sanchez, room 508 City Hall.
All right, do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I do, sir.
Thank you.
Proceed.
The applicant, having met with the coordinating RCO and Norris Square Community Alliance,
receiving a letter of support on all of the requested variances.
The councilman supports the various requests.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Mr. Folks.
Planning Commission.
Morning, Chair Bergman.
Ian Hegarty for the Philadelphia City Planning Commission.
That's Ian Hegarty, H -E -G -A -R -T -Y.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, sir, I do.
Please proceed.
Thank you.
Good morning, board members. In 2022, several of these properties were rezoned from RSA 5 to RM1
in accord with the comprehensive plan. With regard to 22, 37, 33, and 31, the proposed use
for these variances conforms to the newly enacted zoning district on this block.
And with regard to the remaining parcels, those are not recommended for RM1, but given the existing
uses on the block and consistency for adjacent properties city planning commission recommends
that the board grant the variances for each of these five appeals on reese street thank you very
much. MI 2021 003530 2237 North Reese. MI 2021 003529 2233 North Reese. MI 2021 003528 2231 North
MI 2021 -003 -525 -2022.
MI 2021 -003 -525 -2214, North Reese, and MI 2021 -003 -526 -2225, North Reese Street, I vote yes for all five.
Carl Tonnery, my vote is yes for all five.
Thomas Homony, my vote is yes for all five.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes for all five.
Thank you, Mr. Clinton.
Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the board. Have a great day.
You too.
Number eight, MI 2022 -000638443 Martin Street.
Walter Hodge, owner pro se, for use as two dwelling units in an existing structure.
The proposed use two dwelling units is expressly prohibited in RSA3 residential district.
Letter of support from Central Roxborough Civic Association.
Chair, I see no hands for this case.
Okay. MI 2022 000 638 443 Martin Street. This case is continued. I marked must be tried.
number nine mi 2022 000 646 5100 grays avenue no exhibits first listing
patrick jones is list listed as the applicant
there are no hands for this case chair
MI 2022 -00646 -5100 Grays Avenue. Cases to continued mark must be tried.
MI 2021 -003544 -5007 North Fish Street. Natalie Hentz, Pro Se Case. Proposed use as Assembly
and entertainment the proposed use assembly and entertainment requires a special exception in the
cmx 2 .5 zoning district letter of support from the 42nd ward again there is no hands for this case
okay so that case needed deeds interior photos and tax clearance
So MI 2021 -003544 -5007 North Street, cases continued, must be tried.
Number 11, MI 2021 -003561 -908 North 63rd Street.
Jennifer Basileau is the attorney.
Letter of support from Neighbors of Overbooked Association.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Could you state your name and spell for the court reporter, please?
Jennifer Bizziglo.
B is in boy.
A is in apple.
Z is in zebra.
D is in David.
L is in Larry.
O is in Oscar.
Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
And I was wondering.
We'd like to try case 12 with this. Is that okay?
The second case is MI 2021 -003 -557 -906 North 63rd Street.
Could you identify your client, please, and the relationship to the property?
Sure. George Rosinski should be on, and he is the owner of the property and also the property manager.
and then I believe Bill Holtz, sorry, I'm pronouncing his last name wrong, who's the
project manager, is also probably on the call as well. Thank you. Our vice chair has a few questions.
Sure. Good morning, Jennifer. Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate
to its accuracy? I do. Have you emailed the exhibit packet with proof of ownership tax
compliance, a copy of the refusal or referral, photos under plans of the property five days in
advance of this hearing and do you have a letter having met with the RCO yes the exhibits the
primary exhibits were emailed five days before I did send some supplemental information this morning
but all the required documents were in five days I was just retained on Friday so I spoke to Hillary
about this we're all in agreement we're good and we didn't even you may you may proceed and sure
we do have a letter from the RCO so I'm going to share my screen if that's okay thank you
so i'm going to share my screen if that's okay thank you all right um let's get the right pack it up
All right.
okay so i move um i like i said i'm jennifer baziglo i'm here representing um george osinski
who is the owner of both 906 and 908 north 63rd street um i've submitted a package i'm just going
to go through a little bit of it here with the refusals. The only refusal is for multifamily
housing in RSA 3. We have the deeds that show the ownership of both properties. Scroll through
that. Um, we have that, uh, actually there is a credit on their tax balance, property tax balance
for the one property. So there's, this is a negative 2000. Uh, so the property taxes have
all been paid. Um, we also have a two letters of unanimous support from the, uh, neighbors of
Overbrook Association or yeah, Neighbors of Overbrook Association. And we just also have
some photographs, which I'm going to get into now. So 906 and 908 North 63rd Street, they're both
large RSA3 lots located on 63rd Street in Overbrook. 906 is a 5 ,280 square foot lot
and 908, which is this one here, is a 4 ,520 square foot lot. There are existing three -story structures
on each of the parcels, let's just get to the photographs here, that also are over 3 ,000 square
feet a piece, so they're very large buildings. I'm going to get back to the interior photos,
but I just wanted to show you the exterior. And so the application is to use each of these
buildings as three units. There's three floors, three units. I'm seeing on the plans. 906 is in
a little bit better shape. If we go and see the interior here, you know, that's in fairly decent
shape right now 908 is in need of significant repair um beautiful buildings but um definitely
had been neglected for quite a while and are going to need extensive renovations for to make
them habitable again um let me go back up to the zoning map hold on one second
So as you can see, this is 906 highlighted here
and 908 is directly next to it.
These properties are zoned RSA3,
but directly across the street are RM1 zoning
and RM2 zonings.
If these lots had an RM1 zoning,
they would be allowed 12 and 10 units by right.
So you're seeing a much smaller density
than would be allowed by right just across the street.
And in fact, across the street is a 29 -unit building and an eight -unit building and another large apartment building in the RM2 that I couldn't actually find a unit count on, but it is a fairly significant mid -rise apartment building, which we can see if we look on the street view.
So, one second, we can see the large apartment buildings that surround this property.
That's the large apartment building right here.
That's the 29 unit building.
They're right across the street.
But even when we look on the side of the street that these properties are on, on the even side,
there are 20 total properties on this side of the block.
Of those only five are currently used or at least registered as single family. I suspect some of them are being used for something else. But I have to go by what the permits are. And those dwellings, those buildings, the 15 that are not single family,
are directly adjacent is a 69 unit apartment building that is being rehabbed right now. This
is the 69 unit apartment building that's right next to 906. And then there are, and then the
rest of the properties range from two to six units. Some of them also have mixed use businesses
Some of them also have mixed -use businesses in it, nail salons, dental offices, that sort of thing.
in it, nail salons, dental offices, that sort of thing.
So having three units in a three -story building on a block that is basically all multifamily in some large apartment buildings is something that makes sense, which is, I think, why we got the unanimous support from the Neighborhood Association.
I just want to also add that these are very large single -family homes.
If you use a single family home, they are seven to eight bedrooms apiece, which it doesn't make a lot of financial sense to renovate into these large homes that can't really be sold at a profit or rented in any sort of commercially viable way.
So there is sort of an economic issue besides it making sense in terms of the context of the neighborhood.
So basically, in summary, we're asking to use these properties as three unit buildings apiece, the unanimous support from the community.
And it makes sense because it's surrounded by large apartment buildings and other multifamily housing.
So a large single family home just doesn't work there.
I also just wanted to note that there is parking available in the rear of these properties.
Let's go back here.
sorry, one second. So there is parking available. You can see it through here. Maybe that I'm trying to find a good spot of it, but there's a parking area. Let's go to the aerial view. Sorry.
um but you can see here that there is a shared driveway between the two and there is a garage
and parking behind for at least some of the residents so um you know parking's not really
an issue with these additional units uh plus there's great public transportation in this area
a lot of the tenants of these buildings don't have um cars uh so yeah unanimous support of the
community appropriate because of the surrounding context makes financial sense. I'm happy to answer
any questions that the board might have. I would also like George to just get on briefly and adopt
my testimony. George, can you raise your hand? Yes. Could you state your name and spell for the
court reporter, please. George Ryzynski, R -Y -Z -I -N -S -K -Y. Do you swear or affirm to tell the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Proceed, counsel. I just want to ask you one
question. You own a property management company, Dan Housing, correct? Yes, I do. And you manage a
lot of, professionally manage a good number of properties around the city, correct? Correct.
So you're sure that you can manage these buildings and keep it in a fashion that the neighborhood would find amenable, correct?
Absolutely.
Great. And you heard my testimony here today, and do you believe it to be truthful and accurate?
Correct. As a matter of fact, the building next door to us is, I think, a 30 -units apartment building.
It's burned out five years ago, and it's being restored right now.
So we're literally next to a large apartment building.
Yes. You can see it from the backyard of these properties.
So, and would you adopt my testimony as your own?
Yes, absolutely.
All right.
Thank you. Questions from the board?
No, Mr. Chairman.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Chair, we have William Close.
Hi, could you state your name and spell for the court reporter, please?
sir please unmute yourself
william klotz w -i -l -l -a -m -k -l -o -t -z i just um wait a minute wait one minute do you swear
to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth absolutely your honor proceed okay um
i i'm the um the design professional and project management on the project
um i actually raised my hand because i thought i had to but um since i'm here
uh the layout plans did uh preliminary layouts did we're working with right now show four bedrooms
four bedrooms and three bedrooms respectively and you got um if i go my zoning uh real quick
um uh two seconds please um
One, two seconds, please.
Okay, you have in the rear of those properties for parking, to give you some indication,
58 foot, nine and a half inches from the back of the building to the property line.
the garage itself is 21 feet of that 58 feet and you got a 29 foot eight and a half eight inch
eight and a half inches in width on each property line with a 17
uh foot driveway between the two buildings well and you have a front setback of 48 inch 48 feet
one inches okay so so thank thank you for your information i think the boards the board uh has
no further questions, and I'm going to go back to the virtual audience to see if there's anyone
else that has a question. Is there any other questions or comments in the virtual audience?
I see no handshare. Planning Commission. Thank you, Chair Bergman. Ian Hegarty for the Philadelphia
City Planning Commission. The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing
residential single -family zoning on this block. However, the size of the structures and the
lots and their location on a wide street with access to public transit present unique physical
conditions that make single -family use infeasible. City Planning Commission recommends that the
Board grant the variance. Thank you. MI 2021 -003 -561 -908 -North 63rd and MI 2021 -003 -557 -906 -North
63rd street i vote yes to both properties carl tenere my vote is yes to both properties
thomas halliman my vote is yes to both properties
thank you council thank you thank you is there anyone in the audience whose case has not been
heard yet this morning.
Chair, we have
Fran McCoplin.
All right. Could you state your name
and spell it for the court reporter, please?
Yes, it's Francis with an I.
McCoplin, M -C, capital C -O -L,
P -S -M -P -O -L, I -N.
Wait a minute.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
What case are you here to talk about?
The case at 443 Martin Street with Walter Hodge.
Right.
I have a number.
I had that case.
That case has been continued, and Mark must be tried.
Well, we've been trying to get on, walked out for some reason.
So he's on the telephone line trying to help you guys.
Sure, sure. Let's get him on.
I'm texting him to know that they're waiting.
I'm sorry about the confusion. This is all new.
Perfect. Fine. Let's just get Walter Hodge on the line.
He needs access.
He says he texted me and says he needs access from you guys.
he can't raise his hand
excuse me Mr. Chair
is he the phone number
the 267
271 -3552
is that the applicant
I'll allow him to speak
chair if that's okay
thank you
Mr. Hodge
Mr. Hodge?
Chair, I believe you'll have to press star six to unmute, star six on his phone.
Mr. Chair, what number is this?
Eight.
Sir, you have to press star six on your phone to unmute yourself.
Do we know that the phone is definitely the person we need?
Mr. Hodge?
Mr. Hodge?
Chair, Mr. McColpin has his hand up again.
Do you want me to allow him to speak?
Please, please.
mr mccall
Mr. McCall
Walt's saying that he's
can you say that one more time for me Walt please
oh you're on your PC
okay he's in there with his name
he's not on his phone
he's on
with the PC
does anybody see him
No, Chair, I don't.
Pauline?
I do not see him either.
Is he under his own name or is he under someone else's name?
He's under his name.
And could you repeat his name for me, please?
Sir, Walter Hunt.
HODGE?
Yes, sir.
I do not see him.
you're not being seen
wait one more time Walt please
do you see
two friends
is there a way
that I can if I
you know
you can reach out to the
Ms. Sunkett
via email
so here's what we're
going to have to do so you know
The case is still continued.
He's going to have to call the office, and we'll make arrangements in the office to try to figure out how to get him on the line the next time.
Is it okay?
This is not complicated.
Well, he's going to have to call the zoning office.
Ms. Sunken will be in next week, and we'll find a way to get him back on the line the right way.
Thank you very much.
That case is still continued.
Is there anyone else in the virtual audience whose case has not been heard?
I see no other hands, Chair.
All right. Thank you, everyone. Short morning. See everyone at 2 o 'clock.
Mr. Chairman and members of the board, this is John Kelly, the court reporter. Just to inform you, I will not be on the 2 o 'clock in 3 .30 sessions. There will be another reporter from Strayla who will be in charge.
Thank you, Mr. Kelly.
Thank you, sir.
mr chair there was a hand up on that 267 number
uh they just put it down again um okay maybe they're okay now oh no it's up again
on that 267 number let's see let's see who it is
i allowed them to speak but it was still no dead air and all the attendees left hello
hi hello hi could you state your name and spell for the court reporter
yes this is adrian fernandez from swamp brutal rco right so that's not no i have a question
wait do you swear wait a minute do you swear for him to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but
the truth hello you just need to read and mute yourself man
yes hello hi do you do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but
the truth yes i do and what what what's your case your question i have a question about 2452
west toronto street uh okay one minute here let me get that up
2452 was toronto that case was continued it was the first listing
thank you okay anyone else have a question about
no it's here all the other tenis left okay thank you everyone see everyone at two
Thank you.
Good afternoon.
My name is Bill Bergman and I will be chairing this afternoon's EDA hearing.
With me is Carol Tenere, our vice chair.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Ismail Shahid, our board secretary.
Present, Mr. Chair.
And Thomas Hollman, our board member.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Also, here is our attorney, Hillary Emerson.
Before we begin, here's our virtual format.
Be advised these proceedings are being recorded.
By participating, you acknowledge your agreement to be recorded.
The video will be available by contact, tonyasunkett at phil .gov.
For the benefit of our court stenographer, we ask attorneys and witnesses to identify themselves before testifying.
if you're participating by phone if you wish to testify press star nine to raise your hand
and star six to unmute to enter an appearance call
and star six to unmute. To enter an appearance, call 267 -270 -5548. Leave your email and the
address of the property in question. And last, the question and answer box on the screen is not for
testimony or comments. Any comments have to be directed to Tanya Sunkett, our executive director.
So let's look at continuances onto this afternoon's list.
Or is there any request for continuances on the 2 p .m. list?
I see no hands, Chair.
Okay, thank you.
number eight mi 2022 003 161 400 block of wall street this case is withdrawn
any other withdrawals
i see no handshare going to go to case number one mi 2022 001 583
1620 Oregon Avenue
Henry Clinton is the attorney
letter of non -opposition
from the Broad Street West RCO
good afternoon Mr. Chairman
members of the board
Mr. Clinton you've already been sworn
could you identify
your client and the relationship
to this property? Certainly. My client, the owner is JRG Properties, LLC, and the owner who's on the
call is Jerry Gialoreto. That's G -I -A -L -L -O -R -E -T -O. All right. Our vice chair, Carol Tenere, has a few
questions. Hi, Mr. Clinton. Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its
accuracy? I do. Have you emailed the exhibit packet with proof of ownership's tax compliance
a copy of the refusal or referral photos and or plans of the property five days in advance
of this hearing and have you met with the rco and do you have a letter yes to all the above
okay you may proceed and please share your screen thank you thank you
good afternoon mr chairman members of the board again henry clinton clint on behalf of the
applicant jrg properties llc the principal jerry g loretto is on the call with me this is my
presentation binder including table of contents aa through a11 which i asked to be admitted into
evidence by appearance statement. The refusal, obviously the key document in any zoning matter.
This is a CMX1 property. It's on the corner near 16th and Oregon. It's just north of Smedley
Street. Smedley Street, the board may be aware, is the street that you see in the newspaper
every year for the fancy and bright Christmas lights and Christmas decorations that
many of us visit during that Christmas season. So this is at the end of that block and the people
and neighbors on that block are very particular. And you can see when I moved through this
presentation that my client was able to get upwards of 20 signatures of individuals on the
block who support this application along with the RCO. Anyway, it's a CMX1 zoning district and
we are requesting to keep the first floor commercial. We don't know what that commercial
space will become. It was occupied by a doctor for decades who has since retired, and that's
when Mr. Gia Loretta stepped forward to purchase the property. And what we're asking for is to put
a third floor on the property. We're not exceeding 38 feet, but when we put the third floor on,
the property then becomes a two -family household living on the second and third floor
with the vacant commercial space on the first floor.
We do have an RCO letter of support,
excuse me, non -opposition,
and it's outlined here from Broad Street West RCO.
These are the signatures of no opposition
to the project, all on Smedley Street.
These are photographs that I'll show you
of the location. So the location is right here, 16th and Oregon. It's a 16th street. This is
Oregon, which goes east and west. And this is Smedley Street with the trees and plantings in
trees and plantings in the middle. This is a view of the property. Again, the doctor's office was on
the middle. This is a view of the
the first floor. And this was a two -bedroom unit and rather cramped. And that's why when my client
was thinking of acquiring it and he gauged the sensitivity of the neighbors, he decided to go
up a floor and make it just to one bedroom. So instead of having one unit on the second floor
with two cramped bedrooms, he decided to seek an expansion of the building. Now we're looking
north from Smedley Street. This is the rear of the property. What Jerry is going to do is remove
this bulky and frankly ugly AC unit on the back of the building and put the units out of the
sight of the neighbors. And if you look at the rear yard, one of our refusals has to do with
the depth of the rear yard. We are not changing the depth of the rear yard. We're not changing
the footprint of the building, and the refusal, I think, comes about because of an oddity in the
code and where the measurement is taken. It's actually about nine feet here on the east side
and maybe four and a half feet here on the west side, and I believe, although I don't want to
speak for the examiner, I think that's why the refusal, we got a refusal with regard to the
rear yard, but again, no refusals on open space, height, or setbacks.
We do have revised plans because the original version that we showed had bays protruding.
I'll go back to the, it had bays similar to what was here.
And we decided in talking with the neighbors and just looking at the overall plan to eliminate those bays.
And the project was more well received after we did that.
So this is our proviso letter if the board looks kindly upon this application.
And this is what the building will look like after the work is done. A nice addition,
a nice upgrade to the block and to Argon Avenue.
Again, some more perspective photographs for the board.
And this is what I was talking about with the rear yard. It's on a curvature.
We're not addressing or expanding that in any way. The footprint remains the same.
this is the floor plan
basement will be storage
maintain storage
which is what it is now
first floor
just about 650 square feet
a vacant commercial space
will be that way
we don't know how we fit it out
and what type of use we will have
but that's going to be flexible
as we talk to some realtors in the neighborhood
who can help us rent it out
this is the second floor
Again, one bedroom in the rear, kitchen, a living area, and the floor plan is basically
duplicated on the second floor.
There's also a rooftop deck.
Trash for the commercial unit is either stored in the basement or the rear yard.
The second floor unit also will have access to bring the trash to the rear yard, as will
the third floor occupant, but also the third floor may be able to keep a trash can if need
out on the roof deck. My remaining documents are the tax certification, all the typical
documents the board would see in an application of this type, our notification to the neighbors,
and the zoning plan. So basically, in conclusion, we're asking the board to take a look at the
circumstances of this property. It was empty, not for a long period of time, but it was empty.
Mr. Gio Loretta stepped forward, said he would purchase and did acquire the building.
But again, the bedrooms on the second floor just were not compatible with the neighborhood
and compatible with being viable to offer to some residents in the neighborhood.
We have the support of the community group.
We're not blocking any light or air.
We've been in contact with the next door neighbor at 1618.
They've looked at the plans.
one of their relatives is a contractor and they have weighed in on it. We're not really
increasing congestion. It's still two bedroom. It's in harmony really with what the code is
looking for, keeping the first floor commercial with residential use above. And it's in harmony
with the wants and desires of the neighbors on Smedley Street and on Oregon Avenue.
So with that, Mr. Chairman, I'd open the floor to questions or comments. And Mr. Gio Loretta.
Why don't we adopt your testimony first?
Mr. Gio Loretto, can you unmute yourself and or raise your hand?
I think Jerry is participating by telephone.
It's fine.
Yes, I am here.
Could you state your name and spell it, please, for the court reporter?
First name, Jerry, J -E -R -R -Y. Last name, Jalloretto. G as in George, I -A -L -L -O -R -E -T -O.
First name Jerry, J -E -R -R -Y.
Last name Gio Loretto.
G as in George.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Proceed.
Mr. Jalloretto, were you on the Zoom call or by phone and listened to my testimony concerning your project at 1620 Oregon Avenue?
and if you had the opportunity to testify would you adopt my testimony as your own
and would you state that my testimony was true and correct yes thank you jerry uh henry one one
question did you say the second floor bay windows are being eliminated uh yes okay thank you
questions from the board no mr
questions or comments from the virtual audience
i see no hands chair planning commission
mr chair and members of the board uh this is mason austin from the
planning commission um this property is designated for commercial
mason do me a favor spell your name for the court before
absolutely m -a -s -o -n -a -u -s -t -i -n thank you do you swear or firm to tell the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do, and I apologize, I'm a little rusty. No, no,
no, no, proceed, proceed, Mason. All right, thanks. This property is designated for commercial
mixed use in the comprehensive plan, and its CMX1 zoning matches that designation.
While the requested dimensional variance is justified by the hardship inherent in the
unusual curved shape of the rear of the property, the requested use variance is not, whereas up to
three units would be permitted by right through participation in the mixed income bonus program,
granting that the second units by variance would impose additional density not supported by the
comprehensive plan without any commensurate public benefit associated with an additional
affordable unit. Therefore, staff of the Planning Commission recommend denying the requested use
variance. Thank you. MI 2022 -001 -583 -1620 Argonne Avenue. I vote yes with proviso. Revised plan
one page stamped June 15th, 2022.
Carol Scenery, my vote is yes with proviso.
Thomas Solomon, my vote is yes with proviso.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes with proviso.
Thank you, Mr. Clinton.
Thank you, Mr. Bergman, members of the board.
Thank you.
MI 2022 -001809 -2300 South Woodstock Street.
um ron patterson's the attorney letter of opposition from jurada state neighbors
letter of support from councilman johnson and letter of support from coordinating rco jurada
state area neighbors. Okay. Mr. Patterson? Yes. Good afternoon, Ronald Patterson. Hi, Mr. Patterson.
Spell your name for the court reporter, please. Sure. Ronald, R -O -N -A -L -D, Patterson, P -A -T -T -E -R -S -O -N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes, I do.
Could you identify your client and the relationship to the property?
Sure. I represent the owner and proposed operator, which is an LLC, Susie Q 2300 LLC, and its principals, Joseph and Philip Baldino, and Joseph is here today to testify.
Thank you. Our vice chair, Carol Tenere, has a few questions.
Hi, Mr. Patterson. Do you agree to wave the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
Yes, I do.
Okay. Have you emailed the exhibit packet with proof of ownership tax compliance, a copy of the refusal or referral, photos under plans of the property five days in advance of this hearing, and have you met with the RCOs, and do you have letters?
Yes to all of the above, except I'd like to address the tax certification quickly, if I may.
Okay, sure.
And then you may proceed and share your screen, but your screen's up.
You see it now? Okay.
So, this property, the Suzy Q, my time, recently settled on the property in May of 2022. And you'll see here, based on this line, 1304, that city taxes were paid some back taxes. I checked. Can you see this next screen?
yes okay you'll see that um there's no taxes due on the real estate now so i think that was
kind of that was a holdover from the prior owner so i don't know if you're satisfied with that or
not but um mr jerry this is hillary i want to jump in so first the thing we're looking at is
the value not the tax balance on atlas um the screen that you just had up mr patterson that's
um the screen that you just had up Mr. Patterson that's just showing the value that was not the
just showing the value.
tax balance um yeah that's the assessed value of the property
okay there's there's one owed here 2021 but as I was showing you our our tax our HUD sheet shows
that 21 and 22 was paid so yeah so i so mr patterson this is this is hillary i did check
with because there's no principle showed owing but there's penalties and interest a little bit
for each year owing i asked um the city to to verify whether the the payment that was made at
settlement last month covered all of the costs. And it didn't, but they weren't clear whether
they're researching for me, whether the additional money's left, if there was any sort of agreement
to waive penalties and interest, or if that was just added because the payment was made on June
1st. And so penalties and interest from June 1st had just accrued for the next month. So I'm still
getting clarity you know on that but so so we're going to go we're going to go on with the case
until we get the tax okay thank you shall i proceed proceed okay thank you so uh this
application as you mentioned it regards 2300 south woodstock street located in south philadelphia
here you see here this photograph it's at the corner of wool street but it also faces passion
Galvenue, which is on the left of this particular photograph. I'm showing you Phillip's Steaks for
a reason. Two blocks away is Phillip's Steaks, which is owned and ran by the Baldino family
since 1983, particularly now Phillip and Joseph. Phillip's is fortunately enough to have been
selected to operate the Steak Sandwich concessions. Two of them at the link for the Eagles games,
games, home games, and at the Philadelphia Union Soccer, the official cheesesteak concession
of the union.
So this is all relevant, and Phillips freshly slices its ribeye meats daily.
So for those concessions that are added to their small shop here, there's no room to
do this freshly slicing, which brings us to 2300 South Woodstock.
um this building's two blocks from the phillips steaks shop it was last used and has been used
since 1962 as a private social club known as the first republican ward
there's another picture of it here
right here private social club meaning that it can operate sell alcohol till 3 30
in the morning. As you see, there are little or no windows on the first floor. We'll talk about
the dilapidated condition it's in, but the permit is still valid. It was listed for sale as a private
social club. It's located in RSA 5 zoning district, but we believe that it's not viable to convert
to a single -family dwelling unit, and there lies the hardship to viably use the property for what
it's either for what it's zoned for, and certainly we prefer not to use it as a private social
club, which would be a more dense and more impactful use than what we're going to describe
here today. So what's proposed is on the first floor to do some slicing of the ribeye meats,
which would only occur on one day before each of those concession events that I mentioned,
and that would only last for one to two hours. The kitchen would be compliant with Department
of Health requirements, food licenses, of course, lots of stainless steel for sterilization.
Pickup and delivery, the meats will be delivered to Phillips Steaks and then transferred to
a private work van brought here, delivered in front on here on Wolf Street,
sliced, and then picked up within the next day. We are proposing because there were some
issues about congestion which I don't see where congestion would be for one particular van
because it's not a retail establishment nor a hotel wholesale sales establishment to perhaps
get a loading zone here from the parking authority for a limited number of hours and during the day
maybe from 10 a .m to 3 p .m so that the residents could continue to park there on off business hours
Trash, similarly, will be picked up quickly.
I'll show you.
There's a plan that was submitted, I believe, somewhere.
Sorry, I think it was submitted separately.
Sorry, I think it was submitted separately.
It shows interior storage of trash on the first floor.
Sorry, okay.
Which will be removed by commercial trash pickup within 24 hours after the slicing had occurred.
Noise, it would generate no noise.
We believe it would generate no congestion in some compared to the private social club,
which can sell alcohol and operate to the morning, we believe has a lesser impactful use.
We did meet twice, two two -hour meetings on Zoom with the Girard Estate Area Residence,
otherwise known as GEAR, the coordinating RCO, and also in attendance
was Girard Estate Neighborhood Association, GENEP.
I wouldn't say it was well attended. It was attended. A handful of parties opposed,
but for reasons that were uncompromising, and you'll hear based on unfounded beliefs,
such as traffic congestion and vermin infestation, reduction in property values, and more impactful than a private social call.
Based on the comments, however, that we heard at the meeting, and to offset some unfounded beliefs about what actually is going on here,
We put together a complete list of proviso conditions, which GEAR had agreed to. And although many of these may not be, I guess, approvable by the zoning board, we agreed that GEAR could, this would be enforceable between the parties.
So, for example, operation limited to their business and the related office on the second floor that we would like to do, limited to meat deliveries, prohibited uses would include no cooking, no grills, no deep fryers.
This is all meant to box into use so that it doesn't turn into what was, again, reported and stated this was going to be a second retail location, which it would not be.
um deliveries by way of the van that i mentioned loading as i mentioned trash pickup there's really
no trash generated other than the cardboard or the cases containers that the meat comes in
any any turnings or or or leftovers is actually reprocessed into hamburgers
the permit conditions we wanted to make clear that we would agree with gear to terminate this
variance and the associated zoning permit should Suzy Q or the Baldino sell this property
for whatever reasons. So, you know, there were, we did submit an array of signed petitions.
We understand there are, you know, opposing petitions. As I will get to, we find that
they're a suspect for reasons that I will unveil by witnesses and cross -examination. But basically
that the people signing the petitions, at least that we know of, in opposition were told about
the operations that were completely unfounded and not true. So these petitions and oppositions
are suspect not being based on accurate facts such as it would be a retail location. So with
that said, I'd like to promote Mr. Baldino as my first witness. Mr. Baldino, state your name and
spell for the court reporter. Yes, hi. My name is Joseph Baldino, J -O -S -E -P -H, B as in boy, A -L -D -I -N -O.
Do you swear a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes, sir. Proceed.
uh hi joseph you you heard my uh my testimony my opening would you agree that it's true and
accurate yes and and you would adopt it as if you were if it were your own yes sir um and in your
own words if you could briefly describe the building condition and what your proposed
renovation to it will be yes yes so um initially as mr patterson had stated uh myself and my brother
Philip were looking for somewhat of an expansion to help with dry goods and preparation because
we received the honor and the life -changing opportunity to be part of the Lincoln Financial
Field and also the Subaru Stadium. And we were searching for a location. We came across 2300
Woodstock a few months back, and it was operating as such. A bar, members only, with a full kitchen.
If you were to pull that up on the MLS today, the pictures are still there. It is an absolute
commercial building that has been operating since, Mr. Patterson said, 1962. What myself and my
brother Philip proposed was to change what I can only call a dilapidated building.
to change what I can only call a dilapidated building and, you know, make much better the
exterior and interior of said building. Meaning, as you can see, there's no windows on the first
floor. When myself and my brother Philip first purchased the building, we walked a generalized
contractor through, obviously licensed and insured, to go over exactly how we were going to tackle
the matter. I was informed at that point, the roof was literally collapsing and caving in
so that before anything could be done, I've already replaced and put a brand new roof
on top because I'm sure everybody could agree that, you know, building.
Let me just interrupt. So what we're getting at is you're proposing to completely renovate the
building to accommodate your use, correct? Correct.
And on the first floor would be the storage.
Yeah, so the first floor, we are hoping to have a, what I'm calling a commissary, which I would have refrigeration, freezers, and an automatic meat slicing machine, which would obviously automatically, you know, cut the ribeye steak, which some of the big guys like Pat and Gino's already have.
It takes one man to operate the machine, and approximately for the amount of sandwiches we anticipate to sell, like Mr. Patterson said, would take somewhere between an hour, possibly two.
There would be some waste, but it would be minimal, and we have drawings to support that we will keep the trash inside the first floor location and have a 24 -hour pickup the following morning for any cardboard boxes and things of that nature.
The second floor, we are hoping to have a standard office. I have nowhere to conduct business at this time. It would be nothing elaborate, simply desks, tables, chairs, you know, a bathroom, you know, on the second floor.
Joseph, in addition to this proviso letter, which you would you you agree to these proviso conditions, correct?
Absolutely. Yeah. And in addition to that, you you you, I guess, scoured the neighborhood and interacted with neighbors to explain what you wanted to do here and ask if they would support you with petitions.
I did. Yes.
OK. Anything like to add about that?
um yeah yeah so um originally i'm i'm i'm born and raised in the south philadelphia area i grew
up about two blocks from 2300 woodstock i grew up on 1925 wolf street so south philadelphia being
with it is um i'm familiar with a lot of the neighbors uh over the years and so is my family
i took it upon myself to go door to door because i was told um unfortunately i'm new in this
But I was told that, you know, letters of support would be helpful in this matter.
I guess I took it a little prematurely that I would be welcomed with open arms with all the neighbors, considering that it's been a bar since 1962 that I would certainly be for it.
I mean, you know, for obviously all the reasons you don't want to live next to a bar.
That being said, I've received a tremendous amount of support, which is, I believe, on the record in the fall.
Yes, we did. I submitted it.
There was some opposition. Some of the opposition I gathered and I had some of the neighbors that were originally opposed that are now in support, which I had those addresses, was based upon false information.
False information, meaning initially neighbors were told or a rumor was spreaded that we were looking to use this as a retail location.
That is in no way, shape or form correct.
Also, DoorDash, Internet deliveries, Grubhubs, neighbors were told we were going to use this location because Phillips Stakes currently operates 24 hours a day.
That was false information.
I believe a lot of the signatures that were gathered, minus some, as Mr. Patterson said, I completely agree. Not everyone is in support of said, you know, building this permit, but I believe the overwhelming majority of the neighborhood is in support, minus, you know, I would say a vocal six to ten people.
Thanks, Joseph. Any questions for Mr. Baldino?
You, Mr. Patterson, just just I would have it.
I have a couple more minutes, Mr. Chairman.
One of the documents that that I saw, it mentions that this cutting machine is like eight by eight, eight foot by eight foot.
Could you talk a little bit about that and about the noise issue and things of that nature relative to it?
Could you talk a little bit about that and about the noise issue and things of that nature relative to it?
Joseph, can you address that?
The machine, does it have any noise?
Joseph?
I'm sorry. Can you hear me?
Yeah, now we can hear you.
I apologize. Yes.
So it is an 8x8 fully automatic cutting machine.
There is absolutely no noise whatsoever.
And how you would clean it would be by drain, obviously, you know, health department regulated and things.
And you would hose the equipment down.
But as far as noise, there is none of any kind.
Thank you.
Yes, sir.
Two more witnesses.
there's a nicholas caruso we could promote excuse me mr patterson can i just ask one question
i'm sure did mr baldino say that this would be operated only one hour a day uh less than that
no on on the day before the sporting event the the kitchen slicing would be used for one to two
hours for that prior day so how many sandwiches pardon me for how many sandwiches did he say that
no he didn't he just it's just sliced meat and then put back into a bulk container okay
that's like asking max pizza how many slices do you sell
i thought he said that i was wondering how could he know okay um is there mr caruso that we can
Mr. Caruso, state your name and spell for the court reporter, please.
Hello, it's Nicholas Caruso, N -I -C -H -O -L -A -S -C -A -R -U -S -O.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Proceed.
Hi, Nick.
Just one or two questions.
So were you approached by any persons to sign a petition in opposition to this application?
I was. I was approached by a woman.
OK. And how was the project described to you?
So what was described to me was just basically, you know, she was petitioning for the opposition and she stated that her concerns were that they're, you know, the commissary would bring in some unwanted things as such could be.
She specifically the concerns were, I think, dumpsters being outside and food waste.
um she had some you know general concerns of of potentially having parking spots taken up and
and delivery drivers coming in and out at uh random times of the night and um which all seemed
like you know very credible concerns and then she she proceeded to tell me that the baldino family
and philip stakes had purchased the property and once i found out that i i i actually am a family
friend of the Baldinos. And, you know, I think very highly of them. And I proceeded to tell her
that I wouldn't be able to move forward with the opposition because, you know, at the end of the
day, I wasn't very familiar with the project. I had just found out when she was telling me, but
I was confident in that the people running said establishment, we were in very good hands as far
as the neighborhood and you know i know joseph and his mother and his father and everyone in
his family for a very long time well i wanted to stick to the petition but what was said with the
okay so yeah no the petition generally just said that she was she was concerned that there was
going to be some dumpsters and some some delivery drivers and some things going on
that she just wasn't too fond of but when i had spoken to joseph um after that um you know i came
to find out it was a little bit different than from what was initially pitched. Maybe that it
was just, you know, no commercial selling of any food products, people coming in and out late at
night, and no dumpsters outside. Joe assured me of that. So once I had spoken to him, I felt
pretty comfortable in putting my trust in that family and that establishment.
Thanks, Mr. Grusso. That was the point.
um mr cruso ron one one one thing for mr cruso i don't need to know his address but what block
does he live oh he can have his address sure i'm in the 2300 block of woodstock street
thank you um jody della barbara please
hi jody could you state your name and spell for the court reporter
Hi, Jody, could you state your name and spell for the court reporter?
Thank you.
Can you hear me now?
Yes, could you state your name and spell for the court reporter, please?
It's J -O -D -Y.
D -E -L -L -A, capital B -A -R -B -A.
Right.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
And, Jody, do you live in the area?
I live in the area, but not either of the streets surrounding the property.
But, Jody, why are you here?
In what capacity?
I'm the president of the coordinating RCO, GEAR, Georgia State Area Residence.
And just explain to the board why you're here and what your position is, please.
I'm not.
Um, I'm here because of, um, you know, the, the, uh, the zoning matter and because we're
the coordinating RCO, um, the first meeting didn't go real great because, uh, a lot of
people had concerns about trash, about vermin, about, uh, whether it was going to be a retail
operation.
And, uh, we decided to have another meeting and address everything at the, at the second
meeting it seemed to me by the end of the meeting that everybody was basically in agreement that we
would um have the provisos uh written up by the attorney uh he sent them to me they all look good
every single thing that people were concerned with was addressed i also am very familiar with
philip stakes it's immaculate there we have never had gears been in existence 40 years we've never
had a complaint since they opened about vermin or about dirt or about noise and i i am familiar
with the club but it looks like it's in pretty bad shape and i do know that the um the owner
mr baldino is not going to turn it into a residence so um gear takes the position that
we'd much rather have it as operating maybe 16, 16, 20 times a year, uh, slicing meat and keeping
it clean than putting an after hours bar in there again. Plus, um, I didn't know that there were any
other, um, letters of opposition until last night from, um, which were attached to the other
community groups letter. Uh, if there were any other, um, letters of opposition, I would have
hope that since we're the coordinating rco they would have been given to us but
as of the last meeting it seemed everything was okay okay thank you jody anything else
ron i have no other witnesses questions from the board uh yes mr chairman is the is the adjacent
and property occupied uh it is from my understanding did they sign the petition to support it
um i will i don't have it at the tip of my phone but i'll check your neighbor you're talking about
that yes mr chairman yep uh maybe joseph would know if you have to go through this list here
uh yeah yeah so so so 20 2301 has signed and 2303 has signed and 2382 yeah correct there
is somewhat of a gray area sir um the the mother um signed the property uh signed that she was fine
the next direct next door neighbor but the daughter had some questions and concerns but she
is the legal i believe uh owner of the building and then adjacent to the property um also signed
in favor directly thank you thank you yes sir any other questions from the board
no mr chair questions or comments questions or comments from the virtual audience
chair we have nick murphy okay hi mr murphy could you state your name and spell for the
court reporter please sure it's nicholas murphy n -i -c -o -l -a -s -m -u -r -p -h -y
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
i do yes please proceed uh so my question is on on the document you just showed uh it looked like
uh so my question is on on the document you just showed uh it looked like there were only three
there were only
maybe four signatures on the actual 2300 block in support of your thing do you have any information
on the rest of the block and how they signed that would probably be the one that would be
most affected by this so ron do you want to answer that yeah i believe we have
a substantial amount of signatures from the immediately surrounding neighbors both next
to and behind right but on the actual block that it is i only saw three signatures from the 2300
block well this is an initial submission i think we joseph there was a few more that were obtained
and then there's lambert which is behind i think we have somebody from there so so ron there'll
probably be more test money but the petition the petition with the uh the other rco has quite a
few signatures from the 2300 block yeah well again i i find it okay i'm just saying that's that's on
paper we do have no i understand they're competing petitions yeah so there's the other petition
seems to have quite a few signatures for the 2300 block okay so gear gears in support of it and the
other rco is gerard estates neighbors association correct mr murphy what's your position on this
uh i'm on the 2300 block uh i'm opposed to this i feel like this would be a massive inconvenience
for our neighborhood it's very uh congested already um to to have a business operate there
I'd also like to point out, like, I don't think that there is, you know, either a social club that no one really wanted there or this business.
I think there are opportunities that could be. I just don't think that it's very black and white like that.
I think I think it would be a very large detriment to this neighborhood to have something like that operate on the corner of a very congested area.
OK, thank you. Do you have any questions, Mr. Patterson?
I do not. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Murphy, for calling in. Other comments from the virtual audience?
We have someone with the last name Cole.
Thank you.
Hello, how are you?
Hi, could you state your name and spell for the court reporter, please?
Sure. It's Shayla Cole, and it's spelled S -H -E -L -A -G -H, and last name C -O -L -E.
All right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
yes proceed um so i live at 2301 do you live in miss cole do you live in the area i do i live at
2307 south woodstock so thank you a few doors down and across the street um just just a couple
quick questions before i start what was um i'm sorry um what is uh the mr baldino's lawyer's
name again. I'm so sorry. Patterson. Hi, Mr. Patterson. Which numbers on Woodstock did you
say received? You did get the signatures for? Excuse me, Chair. This is Ms. Dandy, the
supervisor. For everybody that's trying to testify, you can only testify. You're not here
to ask questions. I'm sorry. Okay. All right. I'm going to give the lawyer a chance to say that,
but but go ahead so i so so miss cole so you know i think we've already established they had a few
signatures from the block on the the uh petition they put in and there's another petition that has
several more signatures from the block correct mr patterson the position mr patterson has a wider
area of people who who signed okay um so um i distributed the uh petition um along with um
neighbors on the 2300 block of lambert um i got 26 signatures um from uh woodstock street it was
day weekend when I went around so a lot of people weren't home um I stated everything on the petition
and showed everything that we were all concerned about there was nothing about um anything about
um I'm trying to look over these notes about a retail location I never said anything about that
I was very clear um when I talked to uh Mr. Caruso who was very nice we had a nice chat
i certainly was not um you know forceful he did say he was friends of the baldinos i said oh yeah
he's really nice we just most of the neighbors have opposition to this because it does not
Most of the neighbors have opposition to this because it does not improve our neighborhood.
Ms. Cole, could you state your position on it?
I am against it.
Okay. Thank you very much for calling in. We appreciate it.
I have a question, if you wouldn't mind, Mr. Schumer.
Sure. Go ahead, Mr. Patterson.
Hi, Ms. Cole. When you were distributing the petition, did you state that there would be vermin, congestion, outdoor trash stores, any one of those three or all of them?
Ms. Cole?
Ms. Cole, you have to mute yourself.
sorry i'm back so so on my petition i had a list of concerns and i stated them very clearly
to everybody i spoke to okay and what were the concerns that were on there so um the
it's the vermin and congestion yeah yeah and do you have any basis for that or that's just
your speculation um well uh i don't know how many dumpsters that you've been around in you know i
mean it's very hard to control vermin when there's food waste outside there's also our streets are
extremely packed um there's people going up and down about this i'm asking about this particular
operation you're speculating that this is going to create vermin and congestion i'm not speculating
outdoor trash storage. Anyway, I have no further questions. All right. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Cole. Anyone else in the virtual audience has something different they'd like to
testify? Chair, we have Edward Lavish. Okay. Good afternoon. Mr. Lavish, could you state your name
and spell for the court reporter? Yeah. First name Edward, E -D -W -A -R -D. Last name Lavish. L -A -V is
and Victor I -S -H. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth? I do. Do you live in the area, Mr. Lavish? Yes, directly behind the property. Okay, thank you.
Proceed. Yeah, I'm just calling in support of this operation. I have been in the neighborhood
for quite some time, and I remember that building as what it was in the past, and this is with,
In my opinion, other than a single family home, which unfortunately, I don't know anybody that would really want to turn out into a single family home.
I mean, it is a complete gut. And at this point, I feel this is our best option with the cleanliness and the overall good business practices of Phillips States down the street.
I I'm in support as a very close neighbor within 200 feet of the of the property.
Thank you, Mr. Lavish. Anyone else in the virtual audience?
yes chair we have miss we have someone by the late excuse me someone by the last name of galati
okay could you state your name and spell for the court reporter ma 'am valentina v -a -l -a -n -t -i -n -a
all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
i do proceed i am in support of this business philip stakes of i've been in the neighborhood
since a kid. I can remember Phillips Seeks. It's meticulous, always clean. I'm in support of them
having their commissary grounds there. As if you know Phillips and know the business, you know
how clean they are. They even, if anybody's concerned about the vermin or mice or any other
trash, they literally will clean your whole neighborhood and street, not just their business.
and they also donate the extra meat to local animal rescues so I know that that was a concern
for some people about just throwing meat into a dumpster thank you for calling in we appreciate
it thank you is there anyone else in the virtual audience has something else to offer relative to
this here we have Paul Rossi hi hello could you state your name and spell for the court reporter
Yes, my name is Paul Rossi, P -A -U -L -R -O -S -S -I.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Do you live in the area?
I do. I live on the 2500 block of South Colorado Street, and I'm representing the Gerard Estate Neighbors Association Zoning Board.
Okay, could you give us your position on this?
I'm the chairman of the board and the secretary of the RCO.
Okay, that position. I'm sorry. We're in opposition, basically, because in the attendance that we made of the two meetings, I would have to disagree on two major points.
That position, I'm sorry.
We're in opposition.
One of them was that this was a very well attended Zoom meeting. I don't think I've ever been to a neighborhood Zoom meeting that had quite that many people on it.
and in both instances,
and the individuals change meeting to meeting.
I know this is a judgment call.
Mr. Patterson probably counts differently than I do.
But the opposition seemed to us in both cases
to really be unmoved.
I didn't hear people at the end of this
being persuaded by the offer of provisives.
Additionally, we based our decision on our experience that provisos are really very weak protection for neighbors in cases where a variance is granted.
It really puts all the burden on them of having to go back and say that this proviso or that proviso is not being met.
And frankly, it's our experience that, you know, people at L &I who might have to oversee these things, you know, have a really hard time getting interested in something that's sort of a little bit out of their lane.
Thank you, Mr. Thank you very much, Mr. Rossi.
Thank you for calling in. We appreciate it.
Is there anyone else that can offer something different so that we can move on?
New and different.
we have vincent last name beginning with l okay
vincent proceed yes how are you hi could you state your name and spell it please
vincent liuti v -i -n -c -e -n -t l -e -u -c -z -i right do you swear for him to tell the truth the whole
truth nothing but the truth yes proceed uh i myself have a family business in the
neighborhood i live on 18th of retner which is about two and a half blocks away from this building
uh i am for the location uh we we need more businesses like boldino's in the neighborhood
i worked at the steak shop when i was younger i know how clean they are i can't see this place
being a mess i know the process i mean i mean that's really it i mean it's a it's a very good
mr luisi thank you very much for calling in i i ron i think we have a good okay yeah planning
commission mr chair and members of the board uh this is mason austin from the representing the
planning commission this property is designated for single -family residential use in the comprehensive
plan and its rsa5 zoning matches that designation while this block of woodstock street is primarily
residential in character this corner property is directly across the street from a commercial
property that has frontage on pass junk avenue further because this property was constructed
with no windows on the ground floor is poorly suited to the residential uses permitted under
the zoning code consequently staff of the planning commission recommend granting the request
experiences with provisos limiting the operations as described thank you very much put their hand up
as the planning commission was speaking who's that france pierre okay councilman right sure
thank you mason hello good afternoon hi could you state your name and spell for the court reporter
yes that's france pierre that's f -r -a -n -t -z last name pierre p -i -e -r -r -e all right do you swear
affirms tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes i do proceed yes thank you
mr chairman and uh good afternoon fellow board members uh due to the uh the business's long
standing relationship with the community as well as the petition and the support of the coordinating
rco council council member johnson's office does support uh the appeal uh to uh this particular
address. Thank you very much for your testimony. Mr. Patterson, what we're going to do is we're
going to put this off till next week and see by then we have the tax issues straightened out,
and it'll also give the board a chance to discuss this topic, which had things on both sides of it.
Sure, and I understand, and I'll work as well to try and get the tax certification.
That's good. Thank you very much, Mr. Patterson.
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Okay. MI 2022 -001 -699 -3501 on Civic Center Boulevard.
Letter of support from the 27th Ward Republican RCO.
Letter of support from the 27th Ward Republican RCO.
Civic Design Review also approved it.
Peter Kelsen is the attorney.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board, Peter Kelsen.
That's P -E -T -E -R -K -E -L -S -E -N.
I am here on behalf of the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
do you swear do you swear for him to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
i do mr chairman vice chair has a few questions hi mr kelson do you agree to waive the reading
of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy madam vice chair i would be pleased to uh
waive the reading and stipulate it's good to see you again have you emailed the exhibit packet with
proof of ownership tax compliance a copy of the refusal or referral photos under plans of the
property five days in advance of this hearing and have you met with the RCO and do you have a letter
yes to all of the above okay great you may proceed and share your screen great I'm going
to ask my colleague Mr. Klein to share his screen and we can go through the exhibits
and while he is doing that so once again members of the board
on behalf of the children's hospital of philadelphia we are requesting the zoning
board to grant a variance to allow for the use of this property that you'll see in a few moments
as a brand new state -of -the -art new patient tower.
You have a copy of the Notice of Refusal.
The only issue before the board with regard to variance requests
is the provision of off -street loading.
L &I indicates that we are required to provide 35 off -street loading spaces.
The plan is providing 19. In a few minutes, you'll hear me describe why that is more than adequate and also why the providing of 16 additional spaces will ironically work a hardship to the subject property of the surrounding area.
Jared, let's keep going a little bit.
This slide is intended to give you an illustration of the area.
The subject property that we are proposing, and that's before the board today, is within the heart of CHOP's main campus.
If you will look at this slide, you'll indicate our surrounding properties.
properties. Let me pause for a second. Could you promote Mr. Klein if you would?
Thank you. So what you'll see on this slide is the surrounding properties to the subject
that is before you today. The subject property where the new patient tower will be constructed,
you can see highlighted in red in these three different focal points. And surrounding the
new patient tower are other supportive properties by CHOP, owned by CHOP, operated by CHOP,
as well as University of Pennsylvania. Exhibit 5 gives you a zoning plan overview of the proposed
development. Keep going. Let's pause here for a second. This slide is intended to show how the
new patient tower will fit into, if you will, the existing campus. So this elevation shows the
new patient tower in context with the rest of the campus.
These elevations, which are intended to show the character and quality of this structure,
I would point out to the board, we're talking about 1 ,400 ,000 square feet of gross floor area
in 29 stories. There will be below -grade parking specifically for the patient tower of about 150
spaces. You can see that indicated. And there will be an additional parking garage that's
under construction, replacement of a garage that formerly existed. And the total amount of parking
provided within this campus area will be approximately 450 cars. This will give you
an illustration of how the parking will be oriented below grade as well as access points
for patients and their families into this new facility.
and their families into this new facility.
Again, scrolling down, just giving you a sense of the connectivity between the new patient tower,
the main hospital, and the balance of the campus. I will describe this in more detail in my
testimony members of the board in a moment. Jared, let's keep going, please. This is an
illustration that I think will provide the board with the context of how the campus will look and
feel after the construction of the new patient tower. This is intended to create a significant
amount of open space, plaza area, connective space between the various components of the
campus, including the University of Pennsylvania, and afford our patients, our visitors, our staff
with the opportunity to have a pastoral setting on this side of Civic Center Boulevard.
On the opposite side, we have additional plaza areas supporting those buildings.
You can see the care and attention that CHOP has given to its overall surroundings, and just a little money shot to show you what this will look like at night.
So members of the board, let me delve into some specifics if I could.
The subject property is zoned CMX 5 commercial. The use itself is permitted. The site itself is about 130 square feet of lot area.
In terms of the proposal itself, we will demolish the existing wood building and in its place, as I indicated, construct an approximately 29 -story brand new structure that will be used as a state -of -the -art medical facility,
which will allow CHOP to expand its ability to serve critical care patients, children, inpatient, as well as diagnostic.
We are critically in need of additional beds, members of the board.
And this facility will help make a significant impact, positive impact, with regard to that issue.
The additions, and I'll show you in a few minutes, the stacking plan again, will provide 500 more beds.
These will be oriented as private works for the patients and will allow for critical care, diagnostic care throughout the building.
building, but also remember the connectivity to the main hospital, which will be created,
as well as to the other facilities immediately surrounding the new patient tower. When I say
connectivity, I mean literally through bridges and physical connections, as well as campus
connections. The loading issue that's before you, let me delve right into it, because that's
really the heart of the case. The zoning code requires, again, as I mentioned, 35 loading spaces
to service the proposed new patient tower. We are providing 19. Deliveries are controlled by CHOP
through a variety of mechanisms. Primarily, CHOP has established a supply and logistics facility
that will be utilized and is being utilized to provide deliveries real -time as needed
to the new patient tower. That eliminates the need for excessive loading area. In addition,
the loading will be carried out in most cases with much smaller vehicles, box vans,
box, as the code is demanding, semis, you know, tractor trailers. I mentioned a little bit a
while ago, this is a situation where if you don't grant the variance, you're working a hardship
on the property and the surrounding community. What do I mean by that? Well, by adding another
16 loading spaces with tractor trailer spaces, you're unnecessarily creating traffic congestion
in this already congested area for no reason. Equally importantly, by adding
for no reason. Equally importantly, by adding that additional loading, you are degrading the
environmental condition of the area. You're generating unnecessary pollution for no reason.
I would also point out to the board, this plan, the loading plan, has been extensively reviewed
by the City Streets Department, Planning Commission, and they are supportive, I'll let Mason speak to
that later, supportive of the reduction in loading spaces. We were before the Civic Design Review
Committee last Tuesday, June 7th, and received a conclusion and their support for Civic Design
review. It was a one -on and one -done. I believe you will note that there is significant public
and RCO support for this project. I have Madam Vice Chair and members of the Board
shown at Exhibit 2 in front of the screen. The support of the convening RCO, that's the 27th
board Republican RCO, both for the civic design review component, but also, if you know, to the
ZBA, very emphatic support for the variance request. And Jared, if we could go back to the
stacking plan for one moment. Members of the board, let me give you a simple scoping, if you
will, of what's going to be in the new patient tower. That's perfect. The patient tower will
contain eight diagnostic treatment floors, eight floors of treatment facility. We will have 12
inpatient floors with 40, as I said, private rooms per floor, equaling about 500, precisely 480 beds
brand new provided. Building will be LEED Silver certified. As I said, the connectivity
amongst the campus and the main hospital will be extensive and allow CHOP to deliver the highest
quality of medical care to its critically needed population. And finally, if you look at the
arrival and lobby configuration. We have one more slide to show you about that. We're facilitating
our patient, there you go, our patient drop -off, family drop -off, visitor drop -off
in a much more sophisticated manner than we are able to do now. There will be lay -by lanes created,
But most importantly, it will allow for a much more positive experience to our visitors, patients and their families.
And unfortunately, a very, very difficult time for most of them.
And with that, members of the board, I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.
I would like to promote, if I could, Patrick Montgomery from Children's Hospital to have him affirm my statements.
Thank you. Mr. Montgomery, please raise your hand. And when you come on, please state your name and spell for the court reporter.
Hi, this is Patrick Montgomery, P -A -T -R -I -C -K -M -O -N -T -G -O -M -E -R -Y.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
I do. Proceed, sir. Thank you. Mr. Montgomery, are you employed by the Children's Hospital
of Philadelphia? Yes, I am. And what is your position at CHOP? I'm a project manager. And are
you a project manager associated with the New Patient Tower project that I described to the
board today? Yes, that's correct. And Mr. Montgomery, you heard me offer quite a bit of
factual information and testimony to the board regarding the development of the new patient
tower. Is that correct? Yes. And if you were to make your own testimony, would you adopt the
testimony that I gave as yours for the board? Yes, I would. Is everything that I said to the
board true and correct to the best of your knowledge? Yes, it is. Mr. Chairman, members
of the board, I have no further questions of Mr. Montgomery. Mr. Kelson, just one question. So the
6 ,400 block of market is going to be the logistic center for CHOP, right? And they will control how
things are go back and forth and things of that nature. So all this will be controlled from there.
so all this will be controlled from there is that right well that that's the main control that is
Is that right? Well, that's the main control.
correct in addition to the 19 loading spaces that's right that will be coordinated through
chop yes that's fine any other questions from the board no mr
questions questions or comments from the virtual audience
i see no hands chair planning commission
hi mr chair and members of the board uh this is mason austin representing the planning commission
this property is designated for commercial misuse in the comprehensive plan and its cmx5 zoning
matches that designation the required 35 zoning required 35 loading spaces uh is excessive for
the site and use of the proposed project and that project received very positive comments from civic
design review committee staff of the planning commission recommend granting this variance
Thank you. MI 2022 -001 -699 -3501 -Civic Center Boulevard, I vote yes.
Carol Tenere, my vote is yes.
Thomas Howland, my vote is yes.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes.
Thank you, Council.
Thank you, all members of the board. Good to see you again.
Good, thank you.
Thank you. Be well.
MI -2022 -001 -675 -3523 Haverford Avenue. Meredith Ferliger is the attorney.
Letter of support from coordinating RCO Mantua Civic Association.
Mr. Chair, are we hearing five with that?
Yeah, we will. I just want to get her on first.
Ms. Ferlinger is coming back in as a panelist.
Hi, Mr. Chairman.
Hi, Meredith.
How are you?
Could you state your name and spell for the court reporter?
Meredith Ferlinger, F -E -R -L -E -G -E -R, 1500 Market Street Suite, 3500E.
And if you could also call 3513.
I will.
I will.
Thank you.
I will.
Do you swear for her to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
I do, yes. And the other case that we'll hear at the same time is MI -2022 -001 -689 -3530 -13 Haverford Avenue, Parcel C.
Thank you.
Could you identify your client for me, please?
Sure. My clients are owner I LLC and owner E LLC, both entities, which are owned and represented by Rami Schreim, who is here today.
Okay. Our vice chair, Carl Tenere, has just a few questions.
Hi, Meredith. Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
I agree to waive the reading. I believe the refusal is slightly inaccurate, which I will address.
Okay, great. Have you emailed the exhibit packet with proof of ownership, tax compliance, a copy of the refusal or referral, photos and or plans of the property five days in advance of this hearing? And have you met with the RCO and do you have a letter?
Yes, ma 'am. We certainly do. And that letter is up on the screen right now to start.
Okay, start.
Thank you. Again, my name is Meredith Ferliger of Delworth -Paxson. The properties before the board today are located at 3513 and 3523 Haverford Avenue in the city's Mantua neighborhood.
The deeds are included at Exhibit 3 and tax clearance is provided at Exhibit 2.
The exhibit packet includes 16 exhibits, which I will walk you through.
To start off at Exhibit 15, which you will see up on the screen, you will see an overwhelming
letter of support from Mantua Civic Association for today's request.
As a very brief overview, the variance today requests converting a ground floor commercial
space of two properties that are currently under construction into an additional residential
unit in each property.
The board actually granted a similar variance request on this same block just within the
last couple years that the property is actually right in between these two. Now by way of overview
you'll see on the zoning map up on the screen here that these two properties sit between North
36th Street and North 35th Street. The north side of this block is zoned CMX2 while the south side
is zoned RM1. Now turning to the aerials at Exhibit 8 for more context you will see that this block
includes a school at the corner of North 36th Street, a variety of mid -block vacancies and
some newer construction residential uses. On the south side of Haverford Avenue, you'll notice a
On the south side of Haverford Avenue, you'll notice a very large Drexel -owned building.
very large Drexel.
Now, 3513 Haverford Avenue was previously approved for seven dwelling units.
So let me bring up the refusal here just so you can see where I am saying that there is a discrepancy.
So 3513 Haverford Avenue was previously approved for seven dwelling units.
The proposed is eight.
I'm not sure why the examiner here said that the allowed is five. He did not take into account that there's a zoning permit and a building permit that authorizes seven. Same thing for 3523 Haverford Avenue. That was previously approved for nine units. And again, he did not take that into account when he issued the refusal.
So again, the discrepancy in what we're asking for in both is just one unit.
So the previous permits for both of these projects are attached here at Exhibit 5.
Now, the permitting for both of these projects started back in 2020.
As a result of some hardships stemming both from the makeup of this block of Haverford Avenue, in conjunction with the owner's actual attempts at finding commercial tenants,
the applicant is before the board today to request the elimination of the commercial space requirement in exchange for one additional residential unit in each.
Now, with respect to the refusal, one of the refusals relates to the elimination of the commercial space, while the second refusal relates to the unit count, which I did previously address.
Now, practically speaking, the applicant is only asking for one additional unit over the previously approved amount.
Now, as I mentioned, one of the factors contributing to a hardship here is the nature of this block.
So taking a look at the photographs at Exhibit 16, you will see the first photograph is of the under construction project at 3523 Haverford Avenue.
Now, immediately next door to this at 3525 Haverford is a single family home.
Scroll down so you can see that there.
this property has no commercial use and next to that on the corner is the school
now if you look towards the other direction towards north 35th street you'll see mostly
vacant land although I did reference the board did approve a project right here in the middle
which I will mention in a moment now if you move a little farther up towards 3513 Haverford Avenue
you will see that there is one commercial use next door, which is a small takeout restaurant.
Any dense commercial viability for this block is further limited by the very large Drexel -owned property across the street,
which dominates nearly the entire south side of Haverford Avenue.
Now, if you take a look at Exhibit 9 I have up on the screen, you'll see the city's business license map for this particular street and area.
Now, aside from the school, you'll note that the only other business license on this block is for that takeout restaurant next door to 3513 Haverford.
You'll also notice the general lack of dense commercial uses in the few block area that surrounds this stretch of Haverford Avenue.
Furthermore, if you look at some historical maps for this block, shown at Exhibit 10,
you'll see that the history of this block indicates that it was comprised predominantly
of dwellings. Now, as I did mention earlier, the Board did also recently grant another variance in
between the two properties that are before the Board today. And you will see that history here
at exhibit 12, and that's the project up on the screen. This project is located at 3519 Haverford
Avenue and is for 21 dwelling units with no commercial use. Now, despite the character of
the street and the limited commercial use, the owner did attempt to find a commercial tenant
for these spaces. So at this time, if the administrator could please promote Rami Shrine.
Hi, could you state your name and spell it for the court reporter, please?
Sure. Rami Shraim, S -H -R -A -I -M.
Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Proceed, counsel.
Thank you. Rami, you were involved in the permitting and development of these properties, correct?
Correct.
Now, at what point in the process of developing these properties did you start marketing them for commercial use?
So we actually started as soon as we got the permits.
We thought that, you know, building the place, you know, while having a tenant.
you know, building the place, you know, while having a tenant in line would, you know, we can
custom make the place or whatever we feel the tenant is. So we started pretty early, I would say
within a few months of purchasing the property. So over a year ago.
And how did you market it?
We listed it with the realtor and on the multiple listings.
Did you have any interest? Did you receive any interest?
So not really. No. The the the listings are actually still on as we speak. We started we started at at a certain price, which was I believe it was twenty eight hundred, which was a pretty competitive price given like, you know, commercial comps in the area.
And we lowered it. I think right now it's sitting at 2200, which is which is about, you know, 15 or 20 percent decrease and still really no no interest.
And that's why we're you know, we are where we are today.
And you've not received any feedback that would suggest that it's it's the way you design this commercial space that is preventing finding a tenant.
Is that accurate?
it yeah well actually the fact that we started advertising for it early on before the construction
even started uh and and even right now it's just basically an open vanilla box space so it would be
custom made to whichever tenant that is you know that would be interested in leasing it um so no
yeah i mean i don't think that we're not at the design phase yet it's it's like i said it's just
an open space ready for whoever is looking for for for a commercial space to design it for them
Thank you. Sit tight for a minute. So members of the board, given both the predominantly residential character of this block, in addition to the owner's actual failed attempts at leasing space, we do submit it would be a significant hardship to retain this ground floor commercial use in this location.
Regarding the number of units, again, we do submit that the one additional unit above the previously approved allowed amount is a de minimis deficiency.
We submit that these are the least minimum variances, given the proposal only asked to convert the ground floor use of these two structures, which is consistent with the neighborhood, as well as previous variances that were granted by this board.
We submit the proposal will not increase congestion, harm the neighbor's properties, or impair light and air. A full analysis is provided in the memo of law that I always submit to the board at Exhibit 13. And I'd be happy to touch on any particular point in more detail.
Now, with respect to the community, Mantua's letter of support is in the packet at tab 15, and I do believe that a representative from Mantua is here as well.
So before the board asks for any audience members, Rami, have you heard all of my testimony given before the board today?
And would you agree that testimony was true and accurate, and would you adopt it as if it were your own?
Thank you very much. We ask that the board grant our application.
Questions from the board? No, Mr. Chairman.
Carol?
Happens every time. No, Mr. Chair. Ishmael?
Thank you. Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
I see no one is here.
Thank you, Ishmael.
Planning Commission.
Mr. Chair and members of the board.
This is Mason from the Planning Commission.
My testimony on the two cases are slightly different, but I'll try to be efficient and speed for the second.
So the first one for 3523 Haverford Avenue, this property is designated for commercial mixed use in the comprehensive plan,
and that CMX2 zoning matches that designation.
Whereas if the application were submitted under the current zoning rules, a 10th unit could be earned by right through the mixed income housing bonus program, it would require a payment of $170 ,000 instead of the $90 ,000 agreed to as a part of this application.
Further, the CMX2's zoning was supported as a part of a community -led remapping to support
the development of commercial uses in this historic commercial corridor.
There is no hardship that would prevent the project from being developed as has already
been permitted, and therefore, the staff of the Planning Commission recommend denying
the requested variances.
And just to cut to the chase for 3513, it's exactly the same, except the details are that, whereas if the current application were submitted under current zoning, an eighth unit could be earned by right through a mixed income bonus program.
And just to cut to the chase for 3513, it's exactly the same.
It could only be earned by providing the affordable units on site, whereas the two units that are currently approved were earned through an in -lieu payment.
And consequently, the Planning Commission staff recommended against approving the request of jurisdictions. I apologize.
Mr. Chairman, to the Planning Commission's point regarding the community involvement, I do believe that Gwen Morris is here from Manchua Civic, who I believe can touch on the specifics related to why they did support this on this block.
I was hoping, okay, I'll go back to the audience one more time.
Thank you.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Ms. Morris, you can unmute yourself.
Okay, am I on?
Yeah, could you state your name and spell for the court reporter, please?
My name is Gwendolyn Morris, G -W -E -N -D -O -L -Y -N, Morris, last name M -O -R -R -I -S.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Proceed.
I've been a resident of the Mantle community for 50 years.
I'm also a member of the Mantle Civic Association and the Association Secretary.
And we have supported this particular zoning variance request.
The one thing about this particular community, we, of course, as you know, did a significant remapping of the entire community some years ago for a variety of reasons, and particularly around issues of housing.
Part of what we wanted to make sure of was that our residents in this community, this community remained a community for families.
If you're not aware, we have a lot of vacant commercial space, not only on this corridor, but we have an entire block of vacant commercial space unused for almost eight, nine years in a 3 ,500 block of Fairmount.
And I think that does our families a disservice. There are no services there, but there are also not the kind of opportunities for our residents to obtain housing.
So we strongly support additional opportunities for residential development in this community because it has proven, and I'm going to say for 10 years, we've had an entire block of unused commercial space in the 3 ,500 block of Fairmount Avenue.
I think that suggests that it's not necessarily. And also, Haverford Avenue, you may call it a commercial corridor, but if you start at 34th and Haverford, if you start at 31st and Haverford, it is primarily residential.
There's a small portion of commercial properties in that space.
There's a senior building one block from this particular development.
So I, as representing the Managing Civic Association, we strongly support any opportunity to create housing opportunities for our residents.
Thank you very much, and thank you for calling in.
Hillary.
Hillary?
Yes, Mr. Chair, I'm here.
So if when I vote this, because of the mistake on the paperwork, should I make a proviso of how many units?
No, because the total number of units is fine.
I just leave it as is.
All right.
Thank you very much.
No problem.
MI -2022 -001 -675 -3523 Haverford Avenue and MI -2022 -001 -689 -3513 Haverford Avenue. I vote yes for both.
Harold Tineri, my vote is yes for both.
Thomas Holland, my vote is yes for both.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes for both.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
Thank you. MI -2022 -001 -690 -3920 Gerrard Avenue and MI -2022 -001 -545 -3922 West Gerrard Avenue.
Alan Nockamson for both. Letter of support from Centennial Parkside CDC for both.
Mr. Nockamson is coming back in as a panelist.
Thank you.
Hi, Mr. Nockamson, could you state your name and spell for the court reporter?
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the board.
Alan Nockmson, A -L -A -N, last name Nockmson, N -O -C -H -U -M -S -O -N, 123 South Broad Street,
Suite 1600, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 19109.
You swear a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client for these properties?
Yes, they are both owned by H &M Developments, LLC.
And with me, I have Ghazi Ida Seven, a representative from the company.
Our vice chair has several questions.
Mr. Nockm, do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
Have you emailed the exhibit packet with proof of ownership, tax compliance, a copy of the refusal or referral, photos under plans of the property five days in advance of this hearing, and have you met with the RCO and do you have a letter?
Yes, in all respects, and we have a letter of support from the coordinator of the RCL.
Okay, great. You may proceed and begin sharing your screen.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So I'm here to present 3920 and 3922 West Gerard Avenue.
They are separate zoning matters, so the board would have to vote them separately.
if the board should grant our zoning requests, we would respectfully request two provisos.
First, based on negotiations with the community, we are actually providing a commercial use where
one was not provided in the original plans. So we are eliminating CERN refusals. And secondly,
we did update um our plans our site plan to accommodate that so we we did provide a revised
plans to uh hillary emerson the cpa's council beforehand to make sure that everything was
appropriate um it sounds like it is from a technical standpoint uh so we would ask for
those to provide those uh commercial use um on the ground floor uh or in the property or in
properties and as well as revised plans. So as you can see, we're here. Mr. Nathanson, sorry,
this is Hillary. Just a quick question. So with the, you're asking for the, just a vacant commercial
use and that's in addition to the six family dwelling or is that instead of one of the units?
In addition to, that's, that's correct. So the proviso would be vacant commercial space
plus six residential units.
And then this proviso would be the revised plans.
Okay, and the revised plans are one page for each one.
That's right.
We updated plans this afternoon.
I know there's a draftsman error,
so we just want to make sure we have the correct plans.
Yes, I did receive those.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
So as you can see,
what we try to do with 39 -20 -22
do is emulate the look and feel of this part of the city. I personally don't live too far away. I
live in the Fairmont section of Philadelphia, so I get off the Girard Avenue exit all the time off
of the Scoople, and so I'm familiar with this area. This is a porch neighborhood. This is a CMX1
property, and they have mansard roofs, so we really did embrace the architectural feel, and
After talking to the community and their insistence on preserving or encouraging the commercial corridor on Girard Avenue, that's when we agreed to re -include or include the commercial component, as well as the porches, as well.
Hold on a second. Let me just go full screen.
So, in our presentation materials, we have our notices of refusal, our letter of support
from the Centennial Parkside Community Development Corporation.
For your information, this was a heavily attended meeting.
I would estimate it had at least 20 people, I think closer to 30 people who were participating
in that meeting, and after discussions and modifications to our project, we did gain
their support. We have the Zoning Board of Adjustment revised proviso plan forms, one for
each project. As we indicated, we gave Ms. Emerson that updated information this afternoon. The
Philadelphia 2035 plan, it conforms with what that plan states in this part of Philadelphia
that plan states in this part of Philadelphia to encourage in -fail development, but also to
to encourage infail development.
encourage commercial use. I've been in front of this board on a number of occasions in this part
of the state of Philadelphia, including Girard Avenue. And time and time again, the Planning
Commission has indicated that they want to encourage that commercial component, the commercial
use, not only on Girard Avenue, but 40th Street. And this project accomplishes that, not only by
including the commercial component on the ground floor, but also by that to have that type of
density of six units each to help support that commercial border on a lot size that's almost
3 ,000 square feet. We have used registration permits showing that this property has had a
multifamily history, both of them, maps of the area, photographs of the property, our plans and
drawings, RCO meeting notices, along with proof of mailing of those notices to the affected
properties, our deeds to the property, showing that H &M developments LLC is the owner of the
property, our applications for appeal that we filed with the ZBA, and our certificates of tax
clearance showing that we're in good standing with respect to real estate taxes as to this property.
And then we also have Ghazi I -7, the owner's representative, who at the conclusion of my
presentation will adopt my testimony, and then we'd be more than happy to take any questions
for the board. So first things first, you know, 3920 actually has mixed zoning of CMX1 and RSA5.
So, you know, it's really hard to comply with the zoning code just for that split zoning reason.
So what we're looking to do is, you know, include, you know, a six unit multifamily use on the upper
floors of two three and four um as part of the ground floor as well as a commercial and then
39 22 um i it's unclear whether it has mixed zoning it says cmx one adjacent to rsa five
but again we're close to uh rm1 so if this was an rm1 property this the amount of square footage
of the lot is substantial almost 3 000 square feet we it would be allowed as as of right either
way we are putting commercial component in a cmx1 property to encourage that commercial use and to
further encourage that commercial use with increasing density in a neighborhood that is
in need of residents to help support that commercial corridor plus we're on the trolley
line as well with the public transportation so that type of density can be handled through public
transportation. And then a letter of support. It's short and sweet. The Centennial Parkside RCO
supports the applicant's variance for the above reference case. Pretty straightforward. I mean,
we did have a passionate meeting with approximately 20 to 30 residents. And after
having negotiations with our changes to the project, including adding the commercial component,
adding a porch, making sure that, you know, we have, you know, confirming that we have that
mansard roof. They were very supportive of this project. And then there's our revised plans.
So, you know, we handed this to Ms. Emerson. We have, you know, each, we have one for each
uh property uh but you know they go as follows inclusion of a one vanilla box commercial space
on the ground level inclusion of a porch to match adjacent properties reduction in the building depth
to account for new porch and an increased lock coverage but not to exceed the required 75 percent
and then here are our revised plans for each same thing
and then the 2035 plan again we just got this straight from the 2035 plan for this part of
philadelphia preserve neighborhood character with context sensitive and fell development so having
that commercial component further enhanced uh you know the goal of this part of philadelphia
is to encourage a commercial corridor along west gerard as well as increased density uh to support
that commercial quarter on West Gerard as well as Fortier Street. And then permits for the property
again in 1986. It looks like this was a multifamily structure when it was occupied
property. Now it's a vacant lot. 3920 and 3922. And then just maps of the area. As you can see,
we are cmx1 but we are adjacent to rm1 but it was very important as you get closer to 40th street
there is a commercial corridor there and they wanted to have that commercial corridor essentially
start from 39th street along gerrard to then snake around to 40th street
along Gerrard to then snake around to 40th Street so you know with you know with their insistence
on having a commercial quarter we granted that and you know we are excited about this project
so again 3920 and 22 between 39th and 40th you know there's a small street on Union but these
are substantial lots they're almost 3 ,000 square feet each and then here are the vacant lots you
we try to maintain them well. West Girard to the right of their property, West Girard to the left
of their property. We request the street obviously from the Fairmont Park. Memorial Hall is not far
by and it's not uncommon to have multi -family. Again we're adjacent to RM1 as well but just to
show you know how close you know just generally multi -families here is 3910 West Girard.
and then our plans and drawings so uh again we are not seeking any dimensional variances
for this property again these are rather or each of them are almost 3 000 square foot lots
and then again we contextually from an architecture standpoint we try to match the
look and feel of these properties. Again, we added porches to the front of these properties.
We have commercial components on the ground floor, and we have mansard roof to kind of
emulate the look and feel of this part of town with brick facade. And then just to quickly go
through the floor plans, the ground floor is the upper section of the screen. You walk through a
commercial corridor. This is the same as whether it's 3920 or 22. You have a front retail section
here. The retail actually goes to the ground level as well. But to go to the commercial
component, it has its own entryway. And we actually have a dedicated trash room as well
for each of these properties, which was very important to the community as well to have a
responsible trash storage and removal plan. Then we have a unit on the ground floor and the lower
level, which is unit one, which is a two -bedroom, two -bath. You go up to the second floor and you
to the left, you have a two -bedroom, one -bath. If you go to the right, it's a two -bedroom,
two bath. You go to the third floor, you go to the left, it's a two bedroom, one bath. You go
to the right, it is a two bedroom, one bath. And then finally, you have the, well, no, you have
this as well, unit three, unit four is, you have one, two bedroom, two bath. And then to the right,
do you have a two bedroom two mat and then we met with the community on april 26 2022 at 6 p .m
there are 112 addresses notified of the community meeting these are listed the addresses
addresses. These are the proof of mailing to those addresses. The RFCO meeting notice
for the second property, 3922 -113 addresses were notified. And proof of those notices
is being mailed out, and then our deeds to their property, showing that H &M Development
LLC is the own record property.
That's a deed, I believe, for both of them.
And with that being said, I'm now going to share my screen.
We do have a certificate of tax clearance, which is also in the presentation materials.
But I know this has been a rather long session, so I mean, I can always show it if you want.
But we also give that beforehand to the board.
Mr. Nockamson, this is this is Hillary again.
So I just wanted to be clear. The commercial space is both part of the ground floor and part of the first floor.
uh ground floor and the commercial space is the front of the of the ground floor
um as well as a portion of the of the basement level okay so
um as well as a portion of the basement level okay so well ground floor being first first
floor being the first floor and basement okay i just want to make sure i have the wording right
and i think um there was a page of plans that you showed a side section um that showed a little bit
more where the exactly where the commercial space was i think we'll need to stamp that page as well
as the page that that you had submitted so that it's clear exactly where the the commercial space
is yeah let me just see hold on a second sure updated drawings maybe to try to include it all
on one rather than have it but hold on let me just see let me see where we are
so hillary that'll be revised plans two pages for each one well let's let's see what alan has and
Maybe we fix it and there's just one that can be shown on one.
So that's what we're just checking.
Yeah, let me take a look.
Well, I see the site plan has it, the ground floor, it has the first floor envelope.
It doesn't mention the lower level, the basement level.
will that be necessary if we just say ground floor and first floor and basement level
is the entire basement commercial no a portion is residential okay because what i was going to
suggest for um a proviso is that it just say vacant commercial space um on the first floor
and basement as per stamped plans so that it's clear exactly where the space is so i don't mind
stamping an extra page of plans there was one page that you showed that was that was clearer
that's fine to stamp two yeah um
why don't we just do two pages yeah there was there was a second page in your your packet that
i saw that that showed it better than the the other page so i'll just i'll yeah i can just
Yeah, and maybe what we can do is we can always fix it too.
I just want to make sure it's everything's accurate.
So we'll figure out what the second page is going to look.
We'll obviously make sure it's accurate.
And Mr. Chair, I just sent you language for the provisos, the revised language.
So you have that for both cases if you grant.
uh yes um so if mr at a seven can virtually raise his hand to adopt my testimony
hi could you state your name and spell please for the court reporter
hi my name is gazi joe at a seven g -a -z -i joe at a c -v -m right do you swear or affirm to tell
the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes i do mr chamber proceed yes mr out of seven
you heard everything i stated today i heard that yes and is it true and correct yes and do you
adopt it as your own testimony yes all right thank you questions from the board no mr chairman
no mr chairman no mr chairman questions or comments from the virtual audience
i see no hands chair planning commission sorry chair that's okay fine
we have one hand up if you want to hear okay sure all right could you state your name and
spell for the court reporter hi my name is james harrow h -a -r -r -e uh i'm the project designer for
this that's working along with alan and joe i just wanted to chime in on the wait one minute let me
swear you in yeah sorry you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the
truth i do spell your last name for the court reporter please sure hara h -a -r -r -e all right
okay mr knockamson do you want him to testify oh of course i mean he's the architect so i'm sure
he's going to clarify and say um mr knockamson please give the right drawings no um we do include
on the site plan of the revised zoning sheet, not the schematic package that Alan presented,
but the actual zoning sheet that we submitted for the ZBA stamp. It does show on the site plan
the extents of the first four vanilla box commercial space. I'm not sure if that would
help clear up the issue you were having with the location of the commercial space or not,
but just wanted to point that out too for the record.
yeah i'm mr hare though i think they're the concern they just want to clarify because there
is some there is the commercial space does extend to the uh basing level
there is the commercial space does extend to the uh basement level right that is correct uh i do
know that i just wasn't sure if that would have been required via the proviso because the uh
zoning restrictions for the commercial space are limited to the first floor of the building
and does not include the basement i believe uh based on the wording of the zoning code okay
so if if we if we just said vacant commercial space on ground floor based on this the site plan
that should be sufficient i just don't want to get it uh messed up at the you know the building
permit stage yeah i mean uh i believe so but again uh i mean if uh the zba's attorney uh
feels differently and prefer to you know market separately to make it more clear i'm not objected
against that i i think because the commercial technically extends the the basement area is
split between the residential and the commercial i think we just need to clarify what uses are
on what on what floors so i thank you planning planning commission
hi mr chair members of the board uh my testimony for both uh 30 not this makes an awesome
representing the plan question by testimony for both 3922 West Gerrard and 3920 West Gerrard are
the same. These properties are designated for single -family residential use in the comprehensive
plan but remapped to CMX1 in 2017. Whereas the zoning is intended to help reinforce the character
of the remaining twin homes in the block while introducing the optional ground floor retail,
option of ground floor retail, multi -family housing is appropriate on this wide avenue by
Fairmount Park. PCPC staff appreciates the design and inclusion of retail in the modified plans to
support these goals, but even the next most dense commercial designation, CMX2, would only permit
five units on this site. Consequently, staff of the planning commission supports the granting of
this variance with the further provisal that would be limited to five units on each site.
Mr. Nakamura, do you want to respond to that? Yeah, so that was why I showed the zoning map.
we are adjacent to RM1.
If we were on the next block,
this project would be allowed as a right
with no commercial component.
And we comfortably fit the six units
on this almost 3 ,000 square foot lot.
Plus the additional units
are going to help increase
the viability of the commercial corridor
there even further.
Plus non -zoning related
provides more affordability
to residents having six units versus five.
I know that's not zoning related,
But, you know, that's the thought process behind that.
MI 2020, MI 2022, 001 -690 -3920, West Sherrod Avenue.
Revised plans, one page, five units.
Hold on a minute.
Mr. Chair, you need to vote either yes or no.
first um sorry and then and then indicate the provisos if you just look at the commercial
area proviso as well that would be great i just lost my screen one minute i'll be right there
no problem okay here we go i'll start over mi 2022 001 690 3920 westerod avenue i vote yes proviso
revised plan one page five units. MI 2022 001 545 3922 West Rod Apto. I vote yes. Revive plans
five units. My vote is yes. Provisors on both. Thomas Holloman. My vote is yes. Provisors
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes, we'll provide those on both.
Can I just make one point?
Go ahead.
You froze.
Mr. Nackamson, you froze up.
Hello?
I'm trying to get him back, Chair.
Okay, fine.
All right.
He's coming back in as a panelist.
I just want to clarify, we do not need a second proviso regarding the vacant commercial space.
I sent you the language for that, Mr. Chair, if you wanted to include that, the proviso for the, sorry.
I sent you the language for that, Mr. Chair, if you wanted to include that.
I'm fine.
All right.
That's fine, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
MI 2022 -001 -570 -500 -08 -North 2nd Street.
Stephen Pollack is the attorney.
Letter of opposition for Northern Liberties Neighborhood Association.
There we go.
It's still a good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
It is. It's a good afternoon.
It is. It is.
Please state your name and spell for the court reporter.
It's Stephen with the P -H -S -T -E -P -H -E -N, Pollock, P -O -L -L -O -C -K.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client and the relationship to the property?
My client is the Transportation Workers Union Local 234 of the City of Philadelphia,
the people that make SEPTA run.
Okay, and our vice chair has a few questions.
Mr. Pollard, do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
Have you emailed the exhibit packet with proof of ownership, tax compliance, a copy of the refusal or referral, photos and or plans of the property five days in advance of this hearing, and have you met with the RCO, and do you have a letter?
Yes, we do, Madam Vice Chair.
Okay, you may proceed with your screen.
Mr. Chairman, members of the board, I was going to ask, since this is a life, life begins when you as a zoning board have a billboard case.
And I see that there's the presence of Leonard Reuter, who had not identified himself prior to this to me, that he might be participating.
So I'd like to at least do a couple of things.
One, find out who Leonard is going to be representing and what position he's taking.
and then find out if there's anybody else in the virtual audience that may be wishing to oppose this
and maybe take a party status, because that will determine how we go about handling this matter
and may really prolong your hearing even more than what you may want since you have a 3 .30 listing.
Mr. Reuter?
Reuter?
mr we're unable to hear you
mr reuter do you uh yeah i have a mute button in my actual thing that i didn't have can you
hear me now we can't great uh that's leonard reuter r -e -u -t -e -r senior attorney for the city
of philadelphia uh i'm not necessarily going to swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth
nothing but truth i do um as as the board may be aware uh this the administration the city that is
through the uh planning commission uh participates in every zoning hearing uh by virtue of the
planning commission's uh recommendations uh on various cases variances special exceptions um
And and that the fact that the city is a participant in every zoning hearing was recently upheld by the Commonwealth Court about a year or so ago.
So we're we're we participate in every hearing, whether there's an attorney for the city present or not.
It's my understanding that Planning Commission will be making recommendations opposing the variance here.
I don't necessarily need to put anything else in the record other than what the Planning Commission's recommendation would be, although, again, without getting ahead of ourselves, the specific request here is for a digital billboard, and that is a somewhat different animal than if it were just a billboard case, as Mr. Pollack had said, because there are special concerns with respect to digital billboards.
And we just want to make sure I'm just here and planning's here to make sure that at least the special concerns that arise in the context of digital billboards are addressed by the board.
but i'm not necessarily you know going to be questioning or cross -examining anybody uh if
and i'm i apologize mr pollack i i was not aware that you were representing the application here
but um and like i said i wouldn't necessarily have anything to say uh today anyway depending
anyway, depending on where this goes. Mr. Chairman, members of the board, I appreciate
on on where this goes uh mr chairman
Mr. Rutter's position. Leonard and I have known each other for many, many years. However, I'm
very confused as to whether he's going to, he is an attorney. He has stated, I guess, that the city
has standing and could participate as a party and could then go on and take an appeal and therefore
I want to know I, you know, I'm not going to be able to probably do like a my talking head soliloquy and then get people to affirm what I'm saying, given what's going on.
We do have Mr. Joe Coccio is the secretary treasurer of the TWU Local 234.
I have Mr. Michael Tantella, who's a professional engineer certified by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, licensed in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, who is renowned throughout the country and testified in many, many sign cases.
And I also have Mr. Jeffrey O. Jones, who is an expert in the world of billboards and also is the real estate manager for Outfront, a billboard company.
And what we are dealing with here is TWU has had since 2016 a rooftop digital sign.
And if you've ever headed south on I -95 and maybe you're getting out, going off on the Callahill exit, and you look a little bit to your right,
You might see for a little bit the date and time and the weather forecast that's on the roof, as well as some pictures that have been used to show members of the SEPTA riding community, as well as giving messages to the ridership and the public about the SEPTA system over the years.
so it is already a an existing accessory digital sign that in our documentation at our
could i could hold on a minute can i ask the question i thought leonard said he's not going
to question anybody today or anything like that he's just listening in so if he holds if he holds
to that that's fine you know but i've never known i've never known a lawyer to say i don't you know
i'm only going to ask one question they ask one question i mean i'm guilty of that myself
I think, honestly, I think at most, you know, what will probably, I mean, first of all, like, you know, I would certainly stipulate to the qualifications of Mr. Tontala.
I anticipate that we would have no objection to the other expert witnesses by Mr. Pollack.
I mean, I guess the problem here is that there are special concerns with digital billboards that we want to make sure are addressed by the board that don't come up in the
context of other billboards for what i would think would hope to be somewhat obvious reasons uh
because of the capabilities that digital billboards have and the fact that they're um you know
projecting light but but again so why don't we do this why don't you just why don't you get why
why don't we let the planning commission and you go first and we'll get you know there's a time
Hillary, where do we want to be on this?
Say that again, Mr. Chair.
Where are we on this, Hillary?
You advise the board.
Where are we on this?
Well, I think it would make sense for Mr. Pollack to just give an overview of what the case is about first.
That's right. And then if we want to hear from Mr. Reuter or planning commission sooner, I don't see a problem with that.
Just to get to the kind of the nuts and bolts of the issues of the case, that would be fine.
But I think we should start with Mr. Pollack. Mr. Pollack, are you OK with that?
I just well, the question again becomes, are we building a record, you know, and is this a record that that we are making?
if I'm just going to be a talking head and saying what's going on and having it adopted,
or at least giving us a chance to do a summary, more like you're in front of a mediation or an
arbitration than you are in front of a hearing panel. I mean, both Leonard and I have been up
to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court on records made below. But I'm just saying, I'm very concerned
if we could do those openings and make our presentations,
but then I don't want to be foreclosed
from presenting witnesses.
Mr. Pollack, I want you to start the case.
Are you prepared to start the case?
Yes, I am prepared to start the case.
Then let's start the case.
All right.
I would, at that point -
How do you ask your questions to Mr. Pollack?
Yes. Okay, proceed. Okay. Mr. Chairman, members of the board, I'd like to call two things. I'd like to have my associate, Nico Rialbuto, be able to share his screen.
Okay, proceed.
Mr. Chairman,
And I'd also like to be able to have Mr. Joe Koscio, who is the Secretary Treasurer for Transfer Taking Workers Union, Local 234, to be able to be seen.
And to speak.
Mr. Cochia, do we see him?
Hi, good afternoon, everyone.
Hi. Could you please state your name and spell for the court reporter?
Sure. It's Joseph C -O -C -C -I -O, Cochia.
Right. Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Absolutely.
Please begin.
Joe, do you have a video button that you could?
I thought it was on.
I'm sorry.
I don't see you, so I don't know if that's a function of the Zoom or.
No, excuse me, Chair.
He does not need audio.
No, he needs both.
No, I didn't mean to say audio.
I mean to say video.
He does not need video?
Do he need to share a screen?
He doesn't need to share a screen, but I would like to be able to have the board see his face to be able to look at him and see who he is and not just hear a voice.
Well, why don't you start, then we'll bring him on when you're done.
In other words, we don't have the ability then to have him on at the same time as me or if I share the screen.
Is that it?
No, he only is allowed audio.
I think you'll call him as a witness when you're done, Mr. Pollock.
All right. I was hoping there was a way to integrate the signs and the exhibits and have Mr. Cochio, you know, be seen and talking because there is something to be seen about seeing in person.
But OK. All right. Mr. Cochio, I've got up in front of you a picture. Can you identify what we're looking at?
Sure. That's our front entrance on North 2nd Street, 500 North 2nd Street.
And is that the existing accessory digital sign that you have up on the property?
Yes, it is.
Okay. And the location is 500 to 08 North 2nd Street, correct?
500 to 508 North 2nd Street, correct.
Okay. So the street that we see in front of the picture is North 2nd Street, correct?
Yes, sir.
Okay. Why did the union pick this location to be located for their union headquarters?
Well, we looked long and hard for a location that provided the best access to our membership, as well as SEPTA headquarters and the Upper Darby City Government, which are our two primary employers.
And this is very close to the Spring Garden Elevated Stop, which gives us access to Frankfurt, Frankfurt Transportation Center, another large hub, the Broad Street line, as well as 69th Street, Upper Darby, and everywhere in between.
Needless to say, most of our members traverse this line and pass that building during the course of their work week, probably once or twice a week.
in some cases, much more than that. Okay. And right next door to you is, I see at 518,
there's a sign, DeSimone Auto Group. Is that your adjacent neighbor? Yes, sir. And what do they,
what kind of business do they conduct next door to you? It's an auto body repair. Okay. Nico,
can you go to slide 45? Joe, can you tell us what this slide 45 depicts?
It is on the sidewalk directly across the street. Actually, it's not much of a sidewalk. It's pretty much grass and a bike lane, but that's directly across the street from our building.
And above the grass, isn't that where the Callahill off -ramp is and also I -95 is located?
Directly behind whoever took that shot would be the Callahill off -ramp and 95 slightly above that. Yes.
okay now did you uh we'll go just show 46
just a similar view of shows that de simone next door though has uh flags uh that are attached to
their uh facade and are uh blowing in the wind in the front of your uh of second street also don't
Blowing in the wind in the front of your of Second Street also, don't they?
thing.
Yes. He has different decorations from time to time similar to that.
Yes. OK, let's go to 47.
And that's looking south on Second Street, isn't that correct?
Yes, sir. And just a little further down, that sidewalk disappears, which is what I was referring to earlier.
here. So you're talking about what's on the left side of the photo? Yes, sir. Nico, can you show
your little arrow to the left side? Yeah. So that's the sidewalk. And then the grass is sort
of like the slope for the off -ramp of Callahill. Is that correct? You got it right where the hand
is. Right. And then maybe up a little higher is obviously the roadway for I -95, correct?
Yes, sir.
Can you go to 48 for us?
That's still another view.
And now we're showing a little bit more of what's on the left hand side or across the street on 2nd Street.
Is that correct on slide 48?
And these are all these are all photos that we've designated as A81 on our exhibit list, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
and this shows again as you get is looking a little further you're headed the person taking
the shot or the shot is getting closer to spring garden street it looks like is that correct yes
okay and that's the view you can see of the sign as you are looking at it as you get a little
farther away from your property and closer to second the spring garden that's correct okay go
to 49 please we just have one more after this and this is just again another shot showing uh next
after the simone building there's a blue and white building and there's a tree
uh so that's the next building that's adjacent after that uh none of these buildings are are
all these buildings have been there for years is that correct yes sir and you got approval
for your digital sign, I believe, in 2016. Is that correct? Yes, we did. Okay. Now,
before we get to that, we'll just show one more picture, number 50. And then that just shows you
that as you get further and closer to Spring Garden, there's some trees that are planted
along your side of the walk, your side of the sidewalk. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. And there
There is parking on one. I guess it's the west side of of Second Street and a bike lane on the east side of Second Street.
That's correct. OK, let's go to what was our after it was the show, the 2015 zoning permit application.
Keep going down. It'll be after the pictures or maybe we had to split.
We had to split our presentation in half because it was too big, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
So I think that we have to go to our second package to that's our zoning notice and the refusals.
We'll get to that. Keep going. All right. Well, let's stop here for a second.
This is an aerial, Joe, that shows. Can you raise it up just a little bit on the screen, Nico?
Go up so you can see the lettering, the marking that I put on the exhibit.
Yes. There we go. Okay. So if you look at this exhibit and it shows the marks, the sign, is that where your existing sign is?
That's correct.
And it's a single face sign oriented towards cars coming down southbound on I -95. Isn't that correct?
Yes, sir.
And in fact, isn't it true that this sign is principally intended to be viewed by drivers who are traveling on I -95 or on Callow Hill?
Isn't it also true that one of the refusals you got was that the principal view that was intended to be viewed from principal street, it was intended to be viewed from what was second street.
And that because of that, your sign, bottom of your sign is 28 feet high, or it can only be 25 feet higher than the street is intended to be viewed from.
Isn't that what we've got a refusal for?
Yes, sir.
But it's clear that your intention has been to have this sign as it existed be viewed by the off ramp or by the highway of I -95.
Correct?
Now, Nico, go show that little white band in the middle of the roadway to the right.
Keep going.
This little, that's it.
That, Joe, can you tell us what that is?
That's the Spring Garden Elevated Stop and Station.
Okay. So that acts as, besides that little, and then we've got the little grassy plot that you were talking about along the west, the east side, rather, of Second Street that we had, where Nico's got the little hand right now. That is that whole berm that supports the off -ramp for Callow Hill. Is that correct?
So that acts as, besides.
Yes, sir.
Okay. And from the elevation of your sign, isn't the height of the ramp and especially I -95 higher, basically, than your sign?
Definitely.
Right. And even if we – our existing sign, Joe, is that the dimensions are 8 by 17. Isn't that correct?
Yes, sir.
And that's a digital sign that shines 24 hours, seven days a week. Is that correct?
Yes, it is.
And over the years since 2016, since you've had it up, and you've had the message has been about SEPTA and your ridership and your membership, have there been any complaints to you about the sign?
Not one.
Okay. And Joe, if I was trying to drive, have you driven northbound on I -95 in that area past your headquarters?
Most days, yes.
Okay. If you were driving, as you see, there's a car that's headed northbound to the right.
Nico, if you could show that little car right there.
First of all, to get to there, to the right below, on the right -hand side, there's a freestanding billboard. Isn't that correct?
Yes, there is.
And that's in the parking lot, I guess, of where, for lack of a better landmark, that's where Delilah's is located.
Correct, Joe?
Delilah's and there's a car rental place there and a couple other businesses.
And in fact, if you go up further, this lot seems to have a second billboard right at the intersection of I -90, where I -95 overhangs and Spring Garden comes in.
Correct?
Right.
Directly across from the Quaint Oak Bank.
Right.
Right. So there are already two freestanding static billboards over on that side, I believe. Is that correct?
Okay. Now, but again, let's get back. If I'm traveling northbound on I -95 where that car is, am I able to even see your sign because of the elevation of the L and the depth and the drop to where your property is?
No, in fact, there's a Jersey barrier and a cyclone fence and then the raised track, the track itself is elevated.
Our whole property is pretty invisible from that stretch.
Okay, so basically, the sign as it exists today, and as it is proposed, since it's going to stay on the roof, and it's going to stay in that same location, isn't it, Joe?
Exact same location.
And it's going to stay in the same angle and orientation. Isn't that correct? And we'll get into that with Mr. Tantella, Mr. Chairman and members, members of the board.
And so this this sign, even after even if we were given permission to make it to do other things besides use it the way the union's been using it all these years, is practically not visible from anybody headed northbound on I -95 due to the physical characteristics of the surrounding neighborhood.
Correct. And the roadway. That's correct.
Okay. Now, Nate, go to where our sign is, and let's go up to the 2nd and Spring Garden intersection, and then we go, if we go up, then we go up towards the little north along 2nd Street, go up to Fairmount, and we'll show you, when we get to the zoning map that we'll have with Mr. Tantella, you'll see that to the right, that higher level building is maybe where you have the very first
on Fairmount residentially zoned properties.
And so from that distance, given that distance,
and I think we'll be able to show we're at 860 feet
and we are supposed to be at least 1 ,000 feet
from a residentially zoned property.
Your sign is not visible even from that location, is it?
The sign is not visible by any single residential unit
in the entire area.
In fact, Joe, isn't it, in your experiences, you've driven southbound on 95, I guess, to get off and go to the Union Hall or just in your travels.
There is a very limited window of where even your sign is visible.
Isn't that correct?
It's only visible as you approach the Cal Hill exit.
It's only visible as you approach the Callahill exit.
You can see it for a brief period on 95 and as you come down the Callahill ramp, as well as the Spring Garden Street Station.
You can see
That's it.
Okay, let's go to Anika.
Go show the next aerial.
Okay, as you can see, can you show where the sign is for everybody?
Up at the top left.
So there's our property. There's our sign. Same orientation. Joe, what we're going to be doing is the sign is going to is proposed to go from the 8 by 17 to go to 12 .33 by 31 feet. Isn't that correct?
Yes, sir.
So we're going from about 142 square feet to maybe about 383 square feet.
But everybody can check my math.
It wasn't my strong suit.
But as you can see, as you go, you can see more of the physical characteristics of what Joe described,
especially for the northbound lanes of I -95 and the physical barriers presented by the roadway.
And then as you go, so that you can see that it's just not, I mean, I know there's going to be some, I guess, discussion about what digital signs impact is.
But this board has to keep in mind, Joe, that you already have a digital sign.
Isn't that correct?
Yes, sir, we do.
And over the years, nobody has complained about your digital signs.
Not one complaint.
Now, again, looking, this is sort of, this is looking west on Spring Garden Street, and you can see the width of Spring Garden Street, the surrounding uses, and again, if you're coming north on, west on Spring Garden Street, and you're east of the overhang of 95, you really can't see the sign at all, correct?
And then if you're driving at the intersection of where the hand is right now, which is at 2nd and Spring Garden, your visibility is, as we've shown in the pictures, 44 through 50, as we got closer to Spring Garden Street, gets limited.
Isn't that correct?
You cannot really see it until you turn onto 2nd Street and travel a short distance.
Okay. So that's been in your experiences driving over the years. And how long has the union been there for our headquarters?
We moved there in 2008.
Okay. And then let's go to the next one, Nico, which is 8B, 8A3. Well, did you have C? That's D. Did we do? There's C. Okay, that was C.
that we have here's the and there there's the um the sign and we're sort of looking back from
third and spring garden over to where the sign is and uh joe if i was have you been on third and
spring uh third street behind your building and look back look back to your your roof absolutely
Absolutely. And that's where on Third Street, that's sort of where like the fire department is for the city of Philadelphia.
And also across the street is where the Federal Health and Human Services Building is located.
Yes. Fire Administration Building Health and Human Services.
Right. And if you look and try and see the back of your sign, you're not going to see it, correct?
You can't see any part of our property from that from there.
Okay. All right. Let's go. I think that's, and this is A again, and this is looking, this is A3A, another view of the sign, and you can see looking sort of northward on I -95, and as you come in and you approach and you can see that the way the sign is oriented, Joe,
it really does look like it's principally to be intended to be viewed from either that off ramp
or from the major cartway of I -95. Is that correct? Absolutely. Okay. Let's go to just
show the board, Nico, the prior approval from 2016, because that was granted by a variance.
So there was opposition. You do have a letter of opposition from Norton Liberties. They were
in opposition back in 2016. Isn't that correct? And opposed even having a, and here's the
application. And there's the notice, the refusal. I don't know if we can blow up the refusal.
blow up the refusal wait slow down go back go back and the zoning board granted a variance for
Wait, slow down. Go back, go back. And the
the digital billboard and then we have the zoning permit this is a proposed is expressly prohibited
in the zoning district uh it was a roof sign uh also the proposed digital sign is also proposed
if it's within 200 feet of any uh intersecting streets or um it's hard to read the rest unless
we can blow that up but we do have it as part of our exhibit package and
also joe so that was it it was granted in 2016 and it's been in operation because you were granted
a variance by the zoning board and there's the permit was for the installation of a digital
display roof on an existing attached structure and for signings accessory to an existing business and
professional office and that office was your was TWU local 234 headquarters correct yes sir
okay all right I don't know Mr. Chairman members of the board while we're talking about opposition
I know you said that you do have the letter from Northern Liberties but do you have the
letter from Councilman Squilla with regard to this Hillary do we have that letter I did not
receive a copy of that letter no I will we will send it to you but here is it was a letter
addressed to you, Mr. Chairman, dated June 12th, 2022. Joe, did you look at this letter and
receive this letter also? Yes, I did. And this letter says calendar ZP 2021 -016198,
address 500 to 8 North 2nd. Dear Chairman Bergman, I'm writing regarding the above
caption zoning variance request. The applicant has met with Norton Liberties
Association, Neighbors Association, the local civic association. The civic has sent a letter
of no support for this project. PA Department of Transportation corresponded no opposition
to this project. I respectfully leave this decision to the board. Thank you for your
consideration of this matter. Mr. Chairman. Send it over to Hillary, please. We will.
um we will send that over to hillary now the reason i asked you about that and what mr uh
what councilman squill is is mentioning is the transportation uh pendot how did how does pendot
even get involved with you on this location where you haven't you have a this sign that you've been
using all these years what happened um mr chair uh again i i've been trying not to say anything
throughout again i'm just trying to preserve the record but i think i do have to object at this
point that any uh testimony regarding pendot or pendot's recommendation or correspondence uh
we're objecting to as hearsay uh as far as i know there is no letter from pendot in the record uh
you can correct me if i'm wrong uh certainly planning commission in the city has never seen
the letter uh and any testimony regarding uh that should not uh should not be permitted as hearsay
The witness can testify about what he told, what he said to PennDOT, but he can't talk about what PennDOT's response is.
May I respond, Mr. Chairman?
First of all, this is an administrative hearing.
The technical rules of hearsay do not apply, but here we go.
We have, it is part of our exhibit package.
We want to express how Mr. Cocchio and the union decided to even give a shot at trying to ask for a variance from the local authorities, because if you can get a variance from the local authorities, being the zoning board in the city of Philadelphia, you still have hurdles with PennDOT.
And it was really PennDOT that generated, was the genesis of what went on here when, as you will see, that Joe and the union were running a message for Pond and Lohaki.
Who are Pond and Lohaki?
I'm sure you've heard their advertisements all over, but Pond and Lohaki happened to be the disability lawyers for the union.
And they often and they without having signed a lease, they do spend a lot of time at the union instead of fighting a violation notice that was given to them because it was they were told that they were operating a already turning it into a non -accessory sign.
uh joe and everybody cease and desist but then went into and engaged in this
correspondence with joanne parkins who is mr park mr park i so i think we should be allowed
for the purpose listen one minute so for the record we don't have anything from
from pendrive i saw what you do wait a minute i saw what squilla wrote just listen to me a minute
I saw what you do. Wait a minute. I saw what Squilla wrote. Just listen to me a minute.
Why don't you ask your witness what he did? Instead of you tell, why don't you get him to
say what happened? Can I have him refer to the emails that he's traded with Ms. Parkins?
Well, why don't you let him testify to what he did? Let's hear what he did.
um if i could suggest i wouldn't if mr pollack has a copy of a letter from penn dot i would
have a trail we have a trail of emails that are there leonard because you never uh reared your
head until today we didn't we weren't you know if you had reared your head we would have sent you
over our exhibit package so we're moving on mr pollack do me a favor
ask ask your witness what he did and let's just see where we are
All right. Let's go, Nico, to the trail that we have from original violation notice that we got.
There, you're getting close. Keep, do we have, keep going, I think it's 35, 34, go back up.
Go and go to 34. There we go. This is 34, which we identified as a nine in our exhibit list.
And this is a letter that was sent. Did you receive this letter, Mr. Cochio, back on April 23rd of 2021?
Yes, I did. That was the first and only, if you want to say, I won't even call it a complaint, the first contact I had about that sign since its inception.
No one has ever reached out to us about anything about the sign until this letter arrived.
Okay. And this was from Joanne Parkins, correct? And she identifies herself as the Highway Beautification Manager for Engineering District 6 from the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, correct?
Yes, sir.
Okay. And as it says in the second paragraph, it attaches a photograph of a sign which appears to be owned by you and which is in violation of the law. Can you show us what picture she attached, which is 35?
So that is the picture she took and sent to you. And that is what I referred to in my introduction to show that, you know, that we've made the presentation and we were telling you the truth. Here is that you were advertising Pon La Hockey. Is that correct?
Yes, sir.
And was I correct in stating that the Pon La Hockey firm is a firm that has been lawyers for disability issues for the membership of Local 234 for a number of years?
Pon La Hockey does many things with the local. That is only one of the things that they do with the local.
They handle many things for our membership.
And that came about as just more of a friendly gesture initially.
Due to our close relationship, we considered them an affiliate.
And in discussion with our in -house attorneys, we thought it was an okay thing to do.
We put the ad up, and then that ad ran for quite some time before we heard anything.
I'm going to say it ran for probably a couple of years or a year and a half at least.
So in other words, even though Mr. Rutter is here to represent the city, the entity or the governmental entity that said anything about what message you were sending on this sign was the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation.
Is that correct?
Yes, sir.
And what happened as a reason?
What did you do in response to that?
Well, the letter offered some options to appeal this, that. The other thing, I opted to just reach out to Ms. Parkins and struck up a conversation. And she, after several conversations and emails, she asked me directly, why is it that the union did not apply for an off -premise advertising permit from the beginning?
And I said to her, well, from what I understood, they were limited and that PennDOT almost never grants them.
And she said, well, you're correct.
She said it's almost impossible.
But nonetheless, throughout our discussion, she had done her own legwork and explained to me, and I could hardly contain how happy I felt in what she was saying.
But she said from where she's sitting.
Note the objection to hearsay.
Say again, sir?
Just keep talking.
Objecting to hearsay.
Tell us. She gave you some advice. And as a result of that advice, how did it change your attitude towards possibly seeking use of changing the message so it would be not only accessory, but also non -accessory?
You can tell us.
Tell us.
She gave you some.
She said that from where she's sitting, there is no reason why PennDOT would have any reason to deny our project or attempts to get a variance for off -premise advertising.
She said we were the proper distance from the highway, the signs, residential.
She went through all of the different things that we had, the criteria that we had to meet.
And she said she would even, she even offered to help us in any way that she could.
Okay, now let's show the board 36, 37, 38. Let's go to 36 first. No, that's 34. Go down. 36. There you go. Next to the sign. Next to the picture of the sign. No, go up, Nico. Oh, you got him. You're showing him. You're showing him all. 36 through 41 are your trail of emails with Ms. Parkins. Isn't that correct?
Yes, sir.
And that that continued, I guess, through May 6th of 2021.
Keep going through.
May 7th, May 10th, May 12th.
May 12th.
Go back up.
OK, so she on May 12th, she says before that,
Go up to what you wrote in May 10th. Go back down a little. Let's get what Joe wrote in May 10th.
You know, good morning, Joanne. Thank you for your email. I wanted to let you know that the POND ad has been removed and we are seeing if there's anything on compliance.
I will keep you the speed on progress and have a great day. And she writes, good morning.
Then you ask, I just wanted to ask you about the date in your email for our application of 524.
Would that be an application for an off premise permit and then go up?
And she responds, yes, if you were to apply for an off -premise advertising, however, I did close the record on the sign notices you indicate the violations were corrected. You then write, yes, everything has either been removed or adjusted, so please let me know if this means no deadline to pursue the 524. She says, yes, that is correct, and keep going.
then you have good morning joanne's and checking in the things we spoke it's our intention to try
and get the off -premise off -premise permit we need it appears we will need a variance and i
believe you might even have stated that my question is will pendot still approve it was done
by obtaining a variance thanks uh hi it depends what the variance was issued for i knew we do
not accept zoning variance for zoning purposes otherwise it may be perfectly fine i'll need some
specifics uh but you're also testifying that uh and that that would uh thanks joanne this would
be for the zoning district go ahead and it's you sent she sends you that it's in cmx3 correct
yes okay and then go up i think that's the last one we get or no there's one more
and then she says may 18th you do not need a variance for zoning for oad which is a
an outdoor advertising device permitting purposes as long as the zoning is of commercial or
industrial nature is acceptable. I'm not sure what other issues you're having, but it should
not affect the permitting process. And how did you take that permitting process with PennDOT?
Is that how you understood it? Yes, absolutely. Okay. Great. Thanks for your help. And she said,
of course, you're very welcome. That was May 18th at 925 a .m., correct? Yes, sir. Okay.
so I can't the chairman is speaking but I can't hear him oh we can't yeah chairman you're muted if
you're we didn't hear you at all chairman you were muted
you're still muted Mr. Chair you're still muted there you go Mr. Park let me ask you this how
many more witnesses do you have um two I have our engineer yes so I think I'm I'm
I think what we're going to do is we're going to have a resumptive hearing for this.
We have several other cases today.
And the other thing is, could you make sure that anything you have, you send to Hillary?
We've never seen that squill a letter.
Well, it just came in.
I mean, it was addressed to you, not to me.
I understand.
I understand.
I understand.
And I'm just asking you, could you please, whatever you have, please send to Hillary.
And we'll be in touch.
And, Mr. Coach, I appreciate your time, but I think we're going to have to move on and we'll continue this at a later date.
and Mr. Coach, I appreciate your time
but I think we're going to have to move on
and we'll
All right, Mr. Pollack.
Oh, that's fine, Mr. Chairman.
As I said, we just want to we just want to have a chance to make a record.
That's right. You'll you'll get a chance and we'll continue that.
OK. All right. Thank you. Thank you very much, sir.
Chair, Mr. Chair, I would ask it just as a courtesy.
So it's on the record, Mr. Pollack, to the extent that the city would be in the case.
uh if if we we would ask that uh whatever was submitted to the board that we all that the city
oh absolutely absolutely absolutely hillary will send you everything we have okay great thank you
very much thank you very much okay that concludes my business uh wait i think there may be one other
case so so what we're going to do is we have one more case on the uh on the two o 'clock list and
we only have one or two cases on the 330 list we're going to take a five minute break court
reporter can get straight things like that and we'll be right back what what letter what one do
you have uh it might be continued it's very similar to the last one 2901 uh south randolph
street i think that was going to be continued it is they they've requested to continue they
request okay yeah we wouldn't yeah i don't have an objection to that okay so then five minutes
everybody we'll be right back that concludes my business uh maybe thank you appreciate you
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
okay you're sure i changed my i changed my entire location
i carried everything throughout the house you got your lucky thing behind you again
all right i just can't do it in that other room we got we got we got one here and then
we got one or two and then we're done we're going to move pretty good here
Number 10, okay.
good afternoon hi hi how are you good area we should be starting in a few minutes sorry for
as you like. My presentation is super simple. I don't know how I always get stuck behind the
longer cases. Two minutes, I'll be done. Maybe people should put up their hands. I have a
simple one. Can I say something? Yeah, yeah. Gosh, we'll knock on wood. Hopefully it remains a simple one.
lakisha how do we look
we're ready when you are chair i'm ready
Okay, number 10, MI 2022 -001 -340 -8258 Tarsdale Avenue, letter of support from Upper Holmesburg
Civic Association. Counsel, could you state your name and spell for the court reporter?
Sure. Augusta O 'Neill, A -U -G -U -S -T -A. My last name is spelled O -N -E -I -L -L.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client and relationship to the property?
Sure. My client is Gene Starin. He is the owner of the property.
Our vice chair has a few questions.
hi do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy
i do have you emailed the exhibit packet with required documents consisting of proof of
ownership tax compliance refusal referral photos under plans of the property five days in advance
of this hearing and have you met with the rco and do you have a letter yes to all the above
okay you may proceed you have two minutes thank you so much
members of the board i'm here this afternoon representing the owner of the property at 8258
torsdale avenue this application is to legalize an existing auto repair business that's at the
property my client has owned the property since 1992 but there's been an auto repair business
at this location since probably about 1958, as best we can tell, which is when the building was
first constructed. So an auto repair business has been operating the whole time at this location
An auto repair business has been operating the whole time at this location since my client
since my client has.
has owned it without issue since about 1993.
There appears to have been some kind of an oversight, which was just caught back in December
of 2021 by L &I.
My client was operating under the impression that a previous tenant had gotten all the
permits in place for the auto repair use.
I've enclosed a copy of that historic permit with my exhibit package at page five, just
showing again that this auto repair use have been applied for. And so it was it was an oversight
on everyone's part. And in fact, OPA has records which also show that this property is an auto
repair shop. So let me just pull up a picture. So I just got to shrink this down a bit.
so just for context this is a picture of the outside of the property it's an auto sales
business but then there's this auto repair shop in here as well because as a natural part of
selling cars there are auto repairs that have to be done so things like brake work or oil changes
but I did want to note that there's no auto body work that's done here so there's no use of saws
or lab machinery to do the type of work.
It's simply accessory to the auto sales business
that's operating there.
The property is zoned RSA 3,
but I included an aerial in my exhibit package.
I'm sorry.
At page 12, just showing that on this corridor
of Torresdale Avenue,
there's quite a few auto repair businesses
and other commercial uses.
And in fact, we're just down the street from the old site of the Holmesburg prison.
So we did meet with neighbors of the property on two different occasions.
At the first meeting that we held with the RCO, the Upper Holmesburg Civic Association,
some neighbors expressed concerns related to operations.
And so we met with them again to further discuss concerns that had come up at the first meeting.
And following those meetings, we did enter into a CBA with the RCO.
I provided a copy of the CBA to the board solicitor.
And as a result of entering into the CBA, the RCO has agreed to support our application.
A copy of the letter of support was provided with my application materials.
And with that, I would like to call for Jeff Starin, who is part of ownership of the property.
So, Jeff, if you could hit the raise hand feature to adopt my testimony.
hi could you state your name and spell it please for the court reporter
hi could you do it one more time we couldn't hear you sure jeffrey stern j -e -f -f -r -e -y
last name stern s -t -e -r -i -n right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth
nothing but the truth i do counsel jeff did you have an opportunity to hear my testimony this
afternoon i did and was everything that i said to the board true and accurate to the best of your
knowledge yes it was and would you like to adopt my testimony as your own i would thank you um
i'm sorry questions from the board no mr chair no mr chair questions or comments from the virtual
audience. Chair, we have someone by the name of Stanley with the last name ending in C.
Sure. Hi, could you state your name and spell for the court reporter? Stanley Sawinski, S -T -A -N -L -E -Y
C -Y -W -I -N -S -K -I. Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing
about the truth? I do. Proceed. I am the president of the Upper Hansburg Civic Association.
I'm also the zoning director for the 6th Councilmatic District. We did meet with the owner of
the property, and after multiple sessions, we agreed to a community benefits agreement
that i believe satisfies most it's not all the requirements the neighbors were looking for
so um we do support this initiative thank you thank you very much for calling thank you for
calling in we appreciate it anyone else in the virtual audience so you know the handshake
planning commission mr chair members of the board this is mason austin representing the
Planning Commission. The property is designated for single -family residential use in the
comprehensive plan and its RSA 3 zoning matches that designation. The property is also on a strip
with several other auto -related uses and the opposite side of the street is zoned for medium
industrial uses. Given the record of long -time vehicle repair uses on the site and a lack of
Given the record of long -time vehicle repair uses on the site and the lack of opposition
opposition by the RC.
by the RCO, the Staff of the Planning Commission has no objection to the granting of this variance.
Thank you very much.
MI 2022 -001 -340 -8258 Torresdale Avenue, I vote yes.
Harold Tannery, my vote is yes.
Thomas Howellman, my vote is yes.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes.
Thank you, Counsel.
Thank you so much.
i appreciate it thank you we're going to start the 330 list so i'll just go over
the the regulations for the rules for it my name is bill bergman i will be chairing this
carolton area our vice chair is here present mr chair ishmael shaheed our board secretary is here
president mr chair and thomas holliman our board member is here president's chairman also our
attorney, Hillary Emerson. Our virtual format, be advised these proceedings are being recorded
by participating. You acknowledge your agreement to be recorded. A video will be available by
contacting the board administrator, Tanya Sunkett at phil .gov. For the benefit of our
court stenographer, we ask attorneys and witnesses to identify themselves before testifying. If you
are participating in my phone, if you wish to testify, press star nine to raise your hand
and star six to unmute. To enter an appearance statement, call 267 -270 -5548. Leave your email
and address of the property in question. And last, the question and answer box is not for
testimony or comments. Any comments should be directed to our executive director, Tanya Sumpkin.
First, let's look at continuances for this afternoon. Number one, MI 2022 -000 -652 -168
West Cumberland Street. Number three, MI 2022 -000 -649 -2717 Federal Street. And number four,
MI -2022 -000 -648 -2901 South Randolph Street.
All three of these cases are continued.
Are there any other requests for continuances?
I see no hands, Chair.
Okay, we're going to go to number two.
MI -2022 -000 -641 -2209 Harrell Street.
Sean Ward is the attorney.
letter of support from East Kensington Neighborhood Association.
Mr. Ward is coming back in as a panelist.
Thank you.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the board, Sean Ward on behalf of the applicant.
Spelled S -H -A -W -N -W -A -R -D, 331 E Street Road, Treevos, PA 19053.
Do you swear a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I most certainly do.
Could you identify your client in relationship to the property?
She is both the owner and applicant.
Our vice chair has a few questions.
Hi, Mr. Ward.
Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
Have you emailed the exhibit packet with proof of ownership, tax compliance, refusal, referral, photos, and or plans of the property five days in advance of this hearing?
And have you met with your CO?
And do you have a letter?
Yes, I do, too.
All of the above.
Okay, you may proceed and share your screen.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
bear with me i'm on uh i'm on i'm on covid quarantine for the last uh week or so so uh
but in any event mr chair i've included my typical exhibit packet i represent brenda lee ramos
she is the owner of 2209 carl street uh a1 is the notice of refusal this was an application
to permit the erection of a second and third story addition to an existing single -family dwelling
resulted in one refusal, which deals with the rear yard minimum depth. There is an existing
nonconformity at the first floor, and there is an addition built at the rear of the property
pursuant to a zoning permit and building permits that does not comply with the rear yard setback.
that does not comply with the rear yard setback.
Accordingly, an extension of that nonconformity would require zoning board approval.
So accordingly, we seek eight -dimensional variance today.
A2 is the zoning application of appeal, I mean the ZBA application of appeal.
A3 is the project information form.
A4 is proof of ownership.
A5 is proof of tax compliance.
A6 is the site and elevation plan.
A7 are photographs. A8 is the RCO meeting notice and certificate of mailing. A9 is the RCO letter
of support from East Kensington. I don't know if Councilman Squilla's letter made it. I know
Jennifer Slavik was going on vacation. I don't know if the letter made it in time before she
left. But if it did, I would ask that that be marked as A10. Again, with regard to the relevant
zoning history. There was a lot consolidation and curb cut zoning permits issued in 2014.
And then in 2014, the aforementioned rear addition was granted with a rear yard depth
variance. We were just simply looking to go atop of that. So not to belabor the point,
here is the refusal. Again, it just says where the rear wall does not meet the rear yard minimum
depth requirement a vertical extension of that wall is an increase of that non -conformity and
therefore is not permitted so that's why we seek our variance today uh to get right to the plans
all the other documents are in the packet here's a photograph of the property
and then with regard to the site plan itself uh existing is a
three -story structure at the front fronting on the sidewalk. There is a one -story addition
built in the back. We are looking to add a second and third -story addition in addition to some other
additions which are not refused. These are by right. It's just simply the second and third
stories of the rear addition as demonstrated in this elevation. As you can see, the green dot
represents the existing rear one -story addition. She's looking to add a second
and third -story addition on top of that. And again, this would be the rear
elevation. Again, the green dot representing the existing first story,
the two red dots indicating the second and third stories. We did also have the
letter of support from, oh wait, that's not in the packet, it was set separately.
So, again, the letter from East Kensington neighbors voting in support of the application.
That's the sum and substance of the application.
I believe the Ramos's are on the line.
If you want me to have them verify and adopt, that's fine.
Otherwise, I could stipulate that.
Can I just see a real quick picture of the site again?
Screen share.
222, where it go? There it is. Go back to the plan.
You want the upper corner blown up? Yep. This is the existing site. It's 2209
through 13. It's three lots that were consolidated. So the existing three -story structure, which
you can see from this photo okay okay all right okay thank you that's that's the threats the
three -story structure and then the one -story structure is built behind that in the rear
they want to go on the back okay thank you yeah that's it so do you want me to call my witness
to verify in her doctor do you want me to stick would we stipulate to uh i i i think you're an
officer of the court we can take your testimony questions from the board no mr chairman
questions or comments from the virtual audience
i see no handshare planning commission it's uh ron bednar city planning first name ron r -o -n
last name bednar b -e -d right n -a -r ron do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth
nothing but the truth i do please proceed this property is indicated for residential
on the city plan given the documented evidence of physical circumstances of the site recommend
the request for vans be granted thank you mi 2022 000 6401 2209 carl street i vote yes
carl steneri my vote is yes thomas holland my vote is yes
additional city my vote is yes thank you thank you very much
MI 2022 -000 -664
MI 2022 -000 -664 -749 -South 7th Street, Patrick McNichol, pro se owner, letter from Bella Vista neighbors, not taking a position.
We're looking for Patrick McNichol.
Yes. Apologies. I'm here. No, no, no, no. State your name for me and spell for the court reporter.
Sure. My name is Patrick, P -A -T -R -I -C -K, McNichol, M as in Mary, C -N as in Nancy, I -C -H -O -L.
Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Our vice chair has a few questions for you.
Hi, sir. This is an application for the erection of rear masonry fence wall with roll -up gate and creation of one accessory off -street rear surface parking space as part of previously approved existing household living, single -family dwelling. Size and location is shown in the application.
There are two use refusals. One is refused for the following. The proposed use off -street parking shall not be provided for any one family or two family use located in the residential parking control area, except for parking accessed by a shared driveway or rear alley, which is permitted but not required.
Therefore, the proposed parking is prohibited in the residential parking control area overlay zoning district.
The second refusal is the proposed zoning is refused for the following.
Maximum allowed rear fence wall height six feet and you're proposing eight feet.
And now, do you agree?
No, straight up.
Yes, I agree.
Well, good. I'm glad you do. Thank you. Have you emailed the exhibit packet with proof of ownership, tax compliance, a copy of the refusal or referral, photos under plans of the property five days in advance of this hearing, and have you met with the RCO, and do you have a letter?
Yes, to all of the above, and I'd like to say that I'd like to give the right to speak on my behalf to Agatha Reister.
I think you have to speak on your behalf, but you may proceed and share your screen. Mr. Chair?
Yeah, you have to speak on your own.
Sir, and you have to start your video.
Okay, well, I don't have, Agatha has all the, okay, okay, Agatha has all the documents.
She's emailing them over to me now.
Is that an attorney?
She's our architect.
Okay, so she can share her screen for you, but you would have to present the case.
And just say the name, or can they just raise their hand?
Agatha Reister.
She's not listed as an attendee, but Vincent Mancini has his hand up.
Yes, that's her.
One moment, please.
And, sir, may you start your video, please?
you have to keep your video on and um that's it you can uh start yep sharing your screen
thank you sure so you can see the rear of our property and the neighboring properties
that already have a curb cut, and some do and some don't have garage walls.
So which one is your property?
It is the one on the top right, the rear of the property looking west.
You can see the port -a -potty in the back.
Okay, okay.
and then you can see the ones all the ones with red squares on them as well
so show us what you want to do there so we want to put a roll -up door at the back of the property
So we want to put a roll -up door at the back of the property.
And then a fence at the end of the concrete curb, a concrete parking space between the parking and the rear existing yard.
we can see it's the highlight in the yard now
and then that's the parking roll -up area what you're going to do this will be all open
with the gate that's right you can see the concept there
you have your document with you where you met with the the local group the letter they sent you
yes we do here you can see it now that was in early march
Is that a perforated roll -up driveway gate?
That's correct.
Show again the back of the other places.
So the direct neighbor has a solid garage on the rear of the property.
The neighbor to the north has a recessed garage.
the neighbors down to up to further down in the north have a roll up
and then one further south also has a roll up garage
questions from the board okay and you would like a roll up that's correct okay thank you
thanks mr chair questions from the board no mr chair questions or comments from the virtual
audience i see no hands chair planning this is ron bednar city planning properties indicated for
residential use on the city plan given the physical conditions of the site the surrounding
neighborhood uh parking configuration we have no objection to the granting of the parents
Thank you. MI 2022 -000 -664 -749 -South 7th Street, I vote yes.
Carol Tenere, my vote is yes.
Thomas Holloman, my vote is yes.
And I vote it.
This much, I hear my vote is yes.
Okay, Patrick, you have your votes.
All right. Thank you so much.
Good luck.
Thanks. Bye -bye.
MI 2022, 000672, 8107 Bradford Street.
We have no exhibits.
Ron Hurst Civic Association has not yet been in contact with the individual.
Dan Lee is listed there.
Is Mr. Lee there?
No, Chair.
We only have two attendees, and he's not one of them.
So MI 2022 -000 -672 -8107 Bradford Street, cases continued, must be tried.
Is there anyone in the audience from the 330 list whose case has not been heard?
I see no handshare.
Thank you, everybody.
A little bit late, but thank you.
All right.
Good night.
Thank you.
Good night, everybody.
good night everyone thank you sir good night everyone good night