It would be on 959 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 that compound, or are they looking at another site?
Not, it would in the Balch Institute, which is on Seventh Street.
And it would be on the first floor. I mean, they are quite interested in our leasing under some arrangement the first floor of that facility.
It will be a full- service library, a library designed with a children's area, a preschool area, and, of course, the areas for teenagers and adults. And we're looking forward to a wonderful experiment in collaboration with the Balch Institute because of their collections and resources.
And they're right near the African-American Museum, which is a block or so north? And not far from Atwater Kent.
Yeah, that would be a fine collection, a little cluster there. 960 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023
Yes. As I indicated earlier, this will be for six months -- the operating budget part of that if for six months because we anticipate that -- our goal is to have that facility open by mid-Fiscal Year 2000, and there is money in the Capital Budget for the kind of renovations that will have to take place to make it a --
That's correct. You will also see in our request for Fiscal 2000 is money to convert our after-school programs to a five-day-a-week program in 12 targeted neighborhoods in the city, neighborhoods that have been identified by the Mayor's Children and Families Cabinet to be parts of the city with higher-risk children. We know that our after- school program, our LEAP program has a very, very substantial attendance, and to expand it to a five-day-a-week program so we can be of use and of help in the welfare-to-work movement is our primary goal in this initiative. There are challenges ahead. We have 961 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 been a very good part, we believe, of the renovation and the development of communities. The proliferation of information in so many different formats creates a daunting task for us. It would be nice if we could to say to you that people who come in to use the computers don't also want to borrow books. I mean, it would be nice from a fiscal point of view -- certainly not part of our mission. The challenge is readying the resources so that we can meet those needs for the new technology, at the same time supporting the continuing and ongoing need for more traditional library resources. Computers that we have added to the libraries have been very, very well-received. However, they do require ongoing training for staff telecommunications costs, and maintenance costs. As renovated libraries and new technology attract more users, we must provide electronic and print resources that they need. And as I think many of you know, our focus over these last four or five years has been almost exclusively on our branch system, and we know and we are planning now to look at and to 962 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 focus on the needs of our magnificent Central Library, because it too needs to be prepared for the 21st century. We can't leave it back where it was. It is in serious need of not just some restoration, but the various studies that have been done have indicated that you cannot continue to do everything in that same square-foot space, everything that the Central Library is now called upon to do.
So now you're talking about revamping collections or are you talking about capital changes in the building?
We're looking to what kind of capital changes will be required to make the Central Library as well-equipped and prepared to meet the challenges of the 21st century as we have at our branch system. So it is primarily a capital expenditure that we would be considering in the future. In conclusion, I do want to thank the members of this Council and the Administration because it is that steady support of our libraries, that commitment to our libraries that has enabled us to successfully go to the private 963 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 sector to ask for their support and their participation. And with your continued help, we will keep every one of these beautiful renovated branches open six days a week, enriching lives, providing educational programs, and promoting economical development in neighborhoods throughout the city.
We thank you for your presentation. One of the things that has made the Free Library stand out nationally has been your ability to attract large numbers of volunteers and the creative way that you have used volunteers with paid staff to extend and expand the reach and service of the libraries. Can you give a brief, brief, brief exposition of the volunteer program and what it does and why.
Yes. Let me ask Helen Miller to do that. (Helen Miller comes forward.)
Thank you. We have been very successful with our volunteer program, I think mainly because we 964 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 already had created and established our Friends groups throughout the city who were also already acting as volunteers in a lot of our branches, so that we were able to build upon that. We do have a volunteer coordinator who does with a minimal staff -- as a matter of fact, she only has one put -- together a volunteer program for the whole city so that just about all of our branches do indeed have volunteers. And last year, they donated over 44,000 hours to us doing volunteer work, and that was a total of over 1100 volunteers. We also work with the School District and with the students doing a lot of community work. They very often assign students to the Library, particularly high schools, to do volunteer work over the school year, and that has been a very effective program as well. So right now, one of the thing we're looking at is how volunteers can help more with people learning to use computers in the Library. A lot of people who have retired from positions where they used a lot of technology in their jobs have volunteered to come back to the Library and 965 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 help others learn to use some of the equipment. So we think we've been very successful.
Well, we thank you very much. Now just before your head gets swelled, I need to tell you that an anonymous employee called in some questions for us to ask you, okay?.
She said that some employees are concerned about the following issues. We hesitated to do these questions because I don't like anonymous letters, but the questions came in to the President, and I don't think I have the right to overrule the President's decision to have them done. How is the continued increase -- how is the continued increased use of technology going to affect library workers in terms of employees? Will there be layoffs of workers because of continued automation?
I'm going to have to respond to that by saying that I am a firm 966 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 believer that it is the advent of technology and the installation of the technology and the training that we have provided our staff in the era of technology that are guaranteeing their jobs in the future. If we were to let this wave of technological change pass us by, we would indeed be faced with perhaps a useless profession and a much less useful institution. So, I see no 11 decrease in our need for trained librarians as we moved into the technological future.
Absolutely not because what we are noticing is that the technology really has increased the need for -- would you like me to say "additional staff?" because that really is what it has done. Whereas when someone came into the library and asked a question, you were able to take a book off the shelf and hand it to them and they could find the question or write down what they needed from that information, now it's a matter of showing them how to sit down at the 967 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 computer, to be able to turn it on and get to the information they need so that it's a much more lengthy process. So if anything, we're finding that it's requiring much more time and effort of our staff. And this is why we are using volunteers so extensively because they are helping with that as well.
Okay. The second question is: Percentage-wise, how has the purchase of books increased in the last two fiscal years as opposed to the purchase of computer software? Will you stop buying as many books and start buying more computer software? So it's a conflict between the book and the box.
That is indeed a challenge for us. If the question is the percentage of computer and computer software growing faster than the percentage -- than the increase in the number of books, yes. 968 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 But I am pleased to say, with the help of some of the State money that we have received and we anticipate receiving in the future and the continued support of the Administration and Council, we have not cut back in the number of books that we're buying. We have been able to increase the resources and the technological resources that we are providing.
Okay, now here comes a softball; this is not going to hurt you at all. What renovations are being planned for the Central Library? Workers complain that offices are cramped and dark, that book stacks are dirt. What capital renovations are planned for the Central Library? I just lobbed you a basketball. (Laughter.)
Yes, that's true and that certainly is related to point I was making 969 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 earlier. You know, every study that's been done of the Central Library in the past 30 years has said, You cannot continue to do all of these things in the same place. You either have to get rid of services or collections, or continue, to be quite frank, to not just provide inadequate access to those collections, but to actually -- evidence is we are beginning to destroy some of those collections 'cause things are so tightly packed. Our planning at this time is far from complete. Our goals are to provide a renovated Central Library and an expand, significantly expanded Central Library.
Thank you very much. Now the recess is over, and we have some real questions. Mr. Rizzo, you're next.
Thank you. I received a phone call so -- and again forgive me, 'cause I want to ask this and I don't truly understand the question so maybe you can help me. Several constituents called and 970 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 complained that the theater collection in the Main Library is not easily accessible. Several publications are missing.
That's very closely related to what I was just saying. The theater collection -- I can't speak to the missing items; I am not aware of that. I am aware of the fact that it is horribly overcrowded and, to be quite frank, it is one of those collections, when I see somebody wandering around the library, not sure where to go, and when they ask me, How do I get to the theater collection? I'm almost embarrassed to explain it to them because it is in a very, very cramped quarter. It's one of those almost you can't get there from here. It's in a small collection with a low ceiling and crowded quarters.
Thank you for that. The final question. Occasionally, I visit my neighborhood library, and in the course of my work, I visit libraries throughout the community. I notice a lot of videotapes and things like that, that it's hard for me to understand. I guess I'm a little old-fashioned 971 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 that I expect to see books in a library. And when I see videotapes and things like that, I wonder, are we discouraging people from reading?
I think I'm going to ask Helen to do that because Helen has been one of our many champions in that area.
Absolutely not. Well, when it comes to videos, first of all, they are extremely popular. They are very well liked by our patrons. They often do replicate some of our collections so that for people who have problems with reading, with literacy, they can see a video and certainly have a better appreciation for the book itself. We also like to think that we provide a service for people who can't afford to go to Hollywood or whatever the popular places are that you go for videos.
They can come to the library and borrow them for free, but they are not in any way replacing any percentage of the book budget, any significant percentage of the book budget that we would spend on books. They just 972 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 simply are another format of material that just augments the collection.
Have you ever gotten complaints from any of the businesses that do that for a business?
Some years ago, I can remember that we did get a complaint. And what we have businesses to understand is that we could never compete with them in terms of the volume of videotapes that they have. I mean, our collections are so much smaller than what they have. The other thing is that they get things so much sooner than we do. By the time that we get a video, it's not as popular as it was, you know, when it first came out just by the sheer process that we get them. So I don't feel that we compete with them.
The final point. Do we have any material, videos that are considered objectionable in the library? What rating do we have in the library? (Laughter.) 973 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023
Yeah, why did they ask you to answer that question for, Elliott?
There are -- we follow the motion picture industry ratings system. There are no films that, by community standards, would be considered obscene. There are R-rated films in our libraries, just as there are if there were rating standards for books, we would -- you know, some of the books might be regarded as R-rated books.
But we don't have ratings for books but you do for videotapes. Do you think it's appropriate to have R-rated videos in the library?
I believe the resources of the library need to be as broad and as representative of what the public borrows from us. And I think that there have been so many quality films that contain an R rating, that we'd be doing a disservice.
Can a minor take an R-rated video out of the library? 974 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023
If a parent has restricted their card to children's material, then they cannot. If their card is an unrestricted card, they can.
So a minor -- or don't hold me to the age -- can't go to the movie theater and see an R-rated movie; yet they could go to the library and get that same R-rated movie out of the library.
If the parent has authorized the youngster to borrow anything they want to from the library, yes, they can.
No, let me ask the question again. A minor comes into the library, does not have the restricted card, wants to take an R-rated video, can that minor take the R-rated video out of the library?
Don't you think that's a little inconsistent with the -- if that same minor can't go to the movies without a parent but can come to your library and get the same movie without the parent, something's wrong.
Well, I think that what in both instances has been done is that parents will consent and has been --
I'm not -- I'm not -- forget the parental consent. A minor comes to the library -- yes or no, can the minor take the R-rated video out of the library?
Don't you think you should be consistent with the rest of the world?
Well, Councilman, what I was trying to explain to you is that I do think, in many ways, we are consistent. Maybe I'm a bad parent, but I have, upon occasion, given my child a note -- in this case fast as a 14-year-old -- saying that he had my permission to see a movie 976 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 that happened to be labeled R, and he had no 3 problem getting in. Just as with -- we have adult cards and --
That's not -- again, I don't know the age requirements, to tell you the truth, that a -- I don't know, maybe you do. How old does a person have to be to go to an R-rated movie? I don't know the answer to that.
But, if I may, excuse me, Mr. Rizzo. This is an age-old question that we librarians have confronted from the time of the Papyrus and Incunabula. Who can have access to ideas? It is not the Library's job to be censors, it is not. If parents do not want their children to use materials, then parents should make sure that their children do not use the materials. It is not up to the Library to be the police of ideas. It is a very bad precedent for a library to start. We will go back to book-burning and putting books in closed stacks. 977 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 I would withdraw my support for you if I saw you turning down that slippery slope.
You may, but I would like for you to continue it in the light that I would like the Library representatives to know that I think that the path that they are presently on is the right one, and I need them to tell me by sign language or otherwise whether they are about to get on that slippery slope and tell me now before I vote for their budget.
Well, I have that same position here. I believe that my input on the budget is equally as important as anyone else's here. The situation -- I ask you this question. If a 15-year-old or a 14-year-old has a library card, comes into the library, and wants to check out an R-rated video, they can do that; is that what you're telling me?
Thank you very much. Thank you, Madame Chair. 978 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023
This is the first time in a career that goes back 30 years that I have ever heard anyone in Council try to impose a personal censoring point of view on the Library. I think it's disgraceful that that question arose here. It's urgent that information in the libraries be available to all. The libraries should not become a police organization, trying to control what children can read and can't read. That's a matter left to the families, as Councilwoman Clark stated. Sir, I wanted to ask you about the library branch, the Ogontz Library branch. I wanted to congratulate the East Library; apparently, they're doing in a year or year and a half what it took me 33 years to do up in Ogontz. I'm really very envious at the great success they've had, and everybody agreeing that that community deserves a library, and I'm sure it does. I just wish that they'd recognize that 979 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 the Ogontz community 30 years ago was a community that could benefit by a library, and I think that the usage rate at that branch indicates the strong need for that library for many, many years. It's an outstanding success. I can't tell you how much good it has done the whole community to feel that the government and the City was interested in them and felt they were a live community. Last night, I heard State Representative Dwight Evans talk about that. Even before he talked about what was happening in his area, on Ogontz Avenue, he referred to the library as being the opening gate to the great advances being made in that area. And I congratulate this administration of the Library and what they've been doing. But I wanted to raise with you, Mr. Shelkrot, whether anything has happened on the question of that land that's adjacent to the library.
Is it available? I think there is -- 980 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023
Yes, that's right. I have not had a chance yet -- that was about a week, week and a half ago, and with the long weekend in between, I haven't had a chance to pursue that, but I do understand that you want us to explore the land that is just behind the library and some other possibilities.
That's right, and it has been for many, many years an eyesore in the neighborhood. It was just a junk yard for old automobiles. The community had been trying and finally succeeded in having Licenses and Inspections and the Zoning Board take action. I know the owner is interested in disposing the land. He can't use it for the purposes. He's been compelled to clean it up. The lot has now been cleaned. He's still subject to a court order to make sure that it almost shines, that, you know, it's been polished and the removal of the cars. The cars are gone, but there was still some debris. But it's a wonderful spot for an expansion that I feel is going to be absolutely necessary in the future. The Ogontz Library is 981 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 right in back of it. It's adjoining land. And I think that it would be great if the Library system examined that area and whether or not -- you may not be in a position in the Capital Budget to move immediately with respect to expansion, but I think it would be a very wise decision to try to acquire the land now while it's available. It's also in a wonderful location; it's right across from the Prince Hall School and from that neighborhood incubator that the Second Macedonian Baptist Church got a federal grant of over $1 million for, so it's in a wonderful community. The only thing left is the House of Prayer Church, which has been there and is a great addition to the community for many, many years. So it's a wonderful spot, and I think we ought to take advantage of the opportunity to evaluate it. And if in your judgment, it is suitable, you know, to live that to the City, I just know the land is available because I know he's trying to sell it. I don't think any other business could come in there and could possibly get approval for its operations, but one never knows. And I'm just -- it's just a wonderful 982 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 spot for future expansion of this library. And it would be a tremendous community resource.
Well, we'll certainly take a look at that and consider it and discuss it with Public Property unit, and we'll get back to you.
Yeah. I think the first step would be for the library to see whether, you know, it fits into immediate or future plans or would likely fit into them.
And then the City has a process. All right, very good. But the Library is an outstanding success.
I raise it because of the high degree of usage from early in the morning till closing hour for every level of the community -- the children to the senior citizens.
Thank you. Mr. Rizzo, can I ask you to keep yours brief now because we do need to get to finish this 983 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 up.
Could you provide to the Chair a list of the titles of videotapes that you have in inventory at the Library in PG and in the R category, please.
I'll certainly do my best. I know that we have certainly a list of them, and whether we have them -- but yes, we will do that.
Thank you. Are there other questions? 984 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 (No further questions.)
Historical Commission and Atwater Kent, you're next. (Dr. Richard Tyler comes forward.) (Council President Verna reenters chambers.)
I will follow in the tradition of brevity, Madame President and members of Council.
I am Richard Tyler, Historic Preservation Officer for the Philadelphia Historical Commission. The proposed budget for Fiscal Year 2000 requests $258,507. That increase of 5,216 above the current estimated obligation results from the negotiated labor contract. This budget will fund a staff of six. And with this budget and staff, we can expect to meet our major objectives of designation, including three -- 985 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 perhaps three historic districts that concern many of your constituents, expeditious permit review --
The Girard Estate is going to have a committee meeting the end of this month to look at the boundaries.
Committee meetings open to the public to evaluate the significance of it in terms of the ordinance. And then to the full Commission, where there will be at least hearings. We can have one in the neighborhood at night. And then a vote.
Expeditious review of permits, and last year, there was an increase of 30 percent in the number of permits that were reviewed. And also expeditious review of the 986 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 federally-mandated historic resource assessments. I should be pleased to answer any questions Councilmembers may have.
You did get an increase in personnel for staff last year?
We got one more last year, yes. And always OECD funds a position and the Streets Department funds a position.
We found out that we can handle for PennDOT and Streets work for -- for all of their work in the city. And, again, the historic review is required by federal law for less money than it had to pay for a consultant to do one project.
And we also now do almost all of the HUD funding. There are funded projects we had to review, like the Disney project. There's a HUD involvement there.
I know you work very hard and you're very conscientious in what you. 987 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023
And that was a no-brainer; it has no effect on historic resource, but that's still what we do.
Wonderful. Thank you. Are there any questions of Dr. Tyler? (No questions.)
Atwater Kent Museum. (Atwater Kent Museum panel members come forward.)
Thank you for your patience. I know you've been sitting there quite a while. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good afternoon. My name is Jeffrey Benoliel and -- 988 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023
Excuse me, please pull the microphone closer to you.
Sure. Good afternoon. My name is Jeffrey Benoliel, B-E-N-O-L-I-E-L. I'm here with Nancy Moses, the Executive Director of the Atwater Kent. My title at the Atwater Kent is Vice President of the Board of Trustees. Council President Verna and members of City Council, I am pleased to be here today. I present this testimony in support of the proposed Fiscal Year 2000 Operating Budget of $219,769, which is a 10 percent increase over our appropriations in 1999. The additional funds will enable the Atwater Kent Museum to continue its program to expand our educational programs with the School District of Philadelphia, to continue to work on making our museum an attraction for our citizens and tourists, to preserve our significant artifacts, and to move forward in our efforts to raise funds to make the Museum a viable institution well into our future. Our first priority is to expand and strengthen our educational programs with the 989 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 School District of Philadelphia. The new social studies curriculum standards mandate the teaching of local history at three grade levels. Philadelphia's history museum is partnering with our colleagues at the Board of Education and the teachers in the classroom to create lessons in Philadelphia history. Recently, the School District placed a full-time teacher at the Museum. I know it's late, so I'll try to be brief, and I appreciate the time. Our second priority is to make the Atwater Kent Museum a tourist attraction. And when I say "tourist," I'd like to include both the residents of the city as well as those from the outside. The key to this is to have exhibits that will bring people into the Museum. In the coming year, we intend to install three new exhibits. First, "The Cover Story: Norman Rockwell's America"; "Two Carousels," a holiday exhibit that celebrates Philadelphia's singular role in the carousel business. And, finally, "The Treasures of the Historical Society of Pennsylvania." This leads to really our third goal 990 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 this year is to finally bring to fruition our arrangement with the Historical Society by which we will take over sole stewardship of that collection. We're in the process of completing that. We issued some weeks back a statement of intent to that effect and are in the process of negotiating a final agreement, and that is one of our chief objectives for the year. In the coming year, we will also be implementing long-range plan for expansion that will put us on -- "have a face," as Nancy would say, on Independence Mall. We're working with Rohm and Haas to obtain space in their building. And, hopefully, this will allow us to double our size in terms of exhibit and meeting space and add a few amenities that we currently lack today. A critical part of this plan is our $15 million fund-raising effort, 10 million of which will be for capital improvements, 5 million for endowment. During Fiscal Year 2000, the Museum will work hard to match Mayor Rendell's 5 million capital campaign through a challenge of dollar-for-dollar of private funding. And we want to thank the Mayor for his efforts in providing us 991 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 those capital dollars. And I guess the last objective for the year is really to build on our private-sector support. I think this is a key component to our future success, and Mayor Rendell's support in this year, by continuing to keep this in the budget, will enable to us continue in that critical mission. On behalf of the Board of Trustees and staff, I encourage City Council to approve our appropriations for the Fiscal Year 2000 that will enable us to move forward. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madame Chair. Good afternoon, Mr. Benoliel and Miss Moses. How are you?
Good. I wanted to ask one, there was a story in the paper the other day where maybe a half a dozen museums and other 992 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 cultural institutions have endeavored to work together on something -- I know I have the name wrong, but the essential concept was some kind of day pass or -- I mean, it could be a week or a month or. . . I don't remember who all is involved; I know the big institutions are. Is Atwater Kent Museum a participant in that project?
No. Because we don't have one of the largest attendance in the city.
Just if you could put on the record since I badly characterized what it's called, do you recall the name of that?
And you buy one ticket, and you can get into the major institutions in town.
So now, is attendance rate one of the criteria for participation in this?
It's the only 993 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 criteria, okay.
And the smaller museums, especially the museums around the mall, are starting to think about something like that, too.
Okay. So if there's a new one, you might be able to participate in that.
We're already a part of a marketing consortium that's looking at group tours with a bunch of smaller history museums and other museums in the area.
Do you get assistance from, for instance, the Philadelphia Convention and Visitors Bureau, or the Greater Philadelphia Marketing --
We're part of The Book and the Cook, we're part of the PECO Energy Festival, 994 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 we're part of the 4th of July. We haven't gone to those organizations ourselves, but we look forward to doing that very soon. Actually, we have a proposal before one of them now.
Okay. I applaud your participation with the School District of Philadelphia in the furthering of historical education for our young people. Is there a financial relationship between the School District and Atwater Kent for services that you provide to the children?
No, there is no financial relationship. Now that we have a School District teacher in our Museum, children who are taught by those teachers from public schools will, of course, be able to come for free. But we do not receive any grant money from the School District or contract money. It works the other way, though, Councilman Nutter, in that we have a program which places our staff for a day a week in schools throughout the city for a semester at a time to work on community history projects. And so that 995 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 staff time, which is about a half day a week, is a donation that our museum makes to those schools.
And we also provide some funding for each of the school's so that the children can realize a history project of their own design.
Okay. Let me ask about one other potential either source of clientele or possibly source of funding. Do you have any particular outreach practice to the other end of the spectrum of citizens in the city, our many and varied senior-citizen facilities; do we have an outreach to that constituency as a group? Many of them have, for instance, bus facilities of their own that they could bring some of the seniors out to the At Water facility. Some may know about some of the history that you're sharing from a personal perspective. I hope to be one of them one day. Maybe my last job will be as a guide at the Atwater Kent Museum.
Well, we look forward to that. 996 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 We do both of those. We have outreach personnel that go to senior-citizen centers and give programs and we also host seniors. In fact, we're starting a special volunteer program for senior citizens in conjunction with the exhibit that's about to open on Norman Rockwell and his view of American because that's really their era. And we look forward to that. We also have -- are very fortunate in having staff who work at the Museum who are provided by the Mayor's Commission on Aging, some of whom have been so successful and so helpful that we've been able to hire them on as permanent staff.
Okay. Lastly, two financial issues. One, what does it cost to come to the museum?
For an adult, it costs $3. If you're a senior and you come on a Wednesday it's free. And if you come on Sunday morning, it's free. And for children, it's $1.50. And for children in school groups who get programs, it's $2.50.
You said for 997 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 children, it's $1.50 but then you went to --
If the child just comes, it's 1.50. If it's a part of a group and has special events or special activities, it's 2.50.
Okay. Lastly, your budget testimony indicates that FY 2000 has continuing support or even expanded support, but then elimination of operating support dollars in 2001, and you have a $5 million challenge match dollar-for-dollar arrangement on the capital budget side; is that correct?
What are your plans 2001 and beyond with the potential elimination of City operating support?
We're going to do our best to do two things. First of all, we're going to do our best to continue to raise the percentage of funds that come from the private sector, which has increased. When I went to the Museum -- came to 998 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 the Museum a little bit over three years ago, City government provided over 70 percent of the operating support for the museum. Today, it's 30 percent. Or around 30 percent of our operating support.
So the 846,359, is that what your budget is? On the last page here?
For total projected FY 2000 spending, you're at 846,395? Is that the number?
The 846 number. 999 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 All right, all right, now --
So we're going to try to continue to raise private-sector money, and we're going to hope that over the year that the contribution that we make to the city will be seen by the Administration and City Council.
Well, let me just make sure I understand this. Your testimony is that the Atwater Kent Museum was founded as a City department during the Great Depression.
But we're anticipating in 2001 to end any operating support for you in your capacity as the official City history museum.
Okay. Hold on for 1000 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 one second. Mr. Kaplan, can you come to the table please. (Dean Kaplan comes forward.)
Now, earlier, I remarked that you're actually over here doing nothing which, as you know, is not the case, and I was merely playing. And at 3:25 on a Friday, probably the last place you want to be is sitting in City Council with us. But as a matter of public policy, and I understand that prior to today and after today for another couple weeks, there will be many people coming to the table, City operating departments, everyone's got a story, they're all good, they do good things, and all of that. So I understand that. But as a matter of public policy, how can we end operating support for the City's official history museum? I mean, how is -- I mean, that doesn't make any sense to me.
Well, I think that the what the Mayor and the Administration have done is review the needs of the Museum overall. And one 1001 2/19/99 WHOLE COMM./Budget/Bill 990023 of the things we've been talking about for a couple years is dramatically increasing the Museum size and envelope, and we've gone through several iterations, the most recent of which was described in the testimony today. And when we looked at the overall budget several years ago, the Administration's recommendation was that we aggressively fund the capital side of that effort in order to provide them with a new and modern facility, but that we challenge the Museum to raise its own operating budget, which I think that, you know, the particulars of the specific dollars are perhaps one issue. The evidence, I think, has been that we have, in fact, seen a tremendous growth in what the Atwater Kent has been able to do on the private side on an operating basis.