COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Thursday, October 29, 2009, 3:44 p.m. BILL 090573 - Rev. lines/grades, City Plan 42... BILL 090574 - Rev. lines/grades, City Plan 197... BILL 090575 - Vacating of Edom Street... BILL 090583 - Rev. lines/grades, City Plan 97... BILL 090589 - Rev. lines/grades, City Plan 118... BILL 090668 - Rev. lines/grades, City Plan 271... BILL 090702 - Signs, planters, Civic Center Blvd. BILL 090703 - Farmers Market, Wadsworth Avenue. BILL 090709 - Pat's Steaks sidewalk encroachment. BILL 090710 - Sidewalk café, 2448 E. Huntingdon. BILL 090711 - Sidewalk café, 1148-1150 S. 11th. BILL 090712 - Specs for publishers' boxes... BILLS 090691, 090714 - Towing of vehicles... COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Frank DiCicco, Chair William K. Greenlee Bill Green Curtis Jones, Jr. Donna Reed Miller (Also Present: Councilman Darrell L. Clarke) - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Specialists 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2 10/29/09 STS/SVCS 090573&4,583&89,668,702&3,709-11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good afternoon, everyone. The delayed hearing on the Committee of Streets and Services is now in session. We have a quorum: Councilman Greenlee to my left, Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller to my right, Councilman Jones and Councilman Clarke. I will ask Mr. Abernathy to read the title of the first bill.
I'll read all the bills. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All? Okay, all the bills that are non-controversial or whatever. Thank you.
Bill No. 19 090573, an ordinance authorizing the revision of lines and grades on a portion of City Plan No. 42 by placing on the City Plan a right-of-way for drainage purposes extending from 33rd Street to 32rd Street northeast of South Street, under certain terms and conditions. 3 10/29/09 STS/SVCS 090573&4,583&89,668,702&3,709-11 And Bill No. 090574, an ordinance amending Section 2 of an ordinance (Bill No. 070504) approved July 3, 2007, entitled "An Ordinance 6 authorizing and directing the revision of lines and grades on a portion of City Plan No. 197 by striking from the City Plan and vacating the legally open portions of Casper Street from Tioga Street to Russell Street, striking from the City Plan Russell Street from Casper Street southeastwardly approximately 310 feet to a dead end, and striking from the City Plan and abandoning a certain drainage right-of-way, and by reserving and placing on the City Plan rights-of-way for water main purposes, drainage purposes, and public utility purposes within the beds of the streets being stricken by authority of this ordinance, if necessary, under certain circumstances," by extending the period of compliance with the terms and conditions stated therein. 4 10/29/09 STS/SVCS 090573&4,583&89,668,702&3,709-11 And bill No. 090575, an ordinance authorizing the vacating of Edom Street (also known as Eadom Street) from Arendell Avenue to Linden Avenue, under certain terms and conditions. And Bill No. 090583, an ordinance authorizing the revision of lines and grades on a portion of City Plan No. 97 by striking from the City Plan Marshall Street from Bainbridge Street to Kater Street and reserving and placing on the City Plan a right-of-way for various utility purposes within the line of Marshall Street being stricken and authorizing acceptance of the grant to the City of the said right-of-way, under certain terms and conditions. And Bill No. 090589, an ordinance authorizing the revision of lines and grades on a portion of City Plan No. 118 by striking from the City Plan the southerly 20-foot-wide portion of Diamond Street from Tenth Street to Alder Street, under certain terms and 5 10/29/09 STS/SVCS 090573&4,583&89,668,702&3,709-11 conditions. And Bill No. 090668, an ordinance authorizing the revision of lines and grades on a portion of City Plan No. 271 by placing on the City Plan a cutback area at the northwest corner of Second Street and Germantown Avenue and by relocating portions of curblines at and near the intersection of Second Street and Germantown Avenue, under certain terms and conditions, including the dedication to the City of the bed of the said cutback area. And Bill No. 090702, an ordinance granting permission to the Trustees of the University of Pennsylvania, University of Pennsylvania Health System, 3624 Market Street, Suite 575, West Philadelphia, PA, 19104, for the installation of information signs and planters on the public sidewalk located on the 3400 block of Civic Center Boulevard, under certain terms and conditions. 6 10/29/09 STS/SVCS 090573&4,583&89,668,702&3,709-11 And Bill No. 090709, an ordinance authorizing Frank and Ritamarie Oliveri, owners of the property Pat's King of Steaks, 901-03 Wharton Street, to legalize various existing sidewalk encroachments located on the island parcel bounded by Wharton Street, Ninth Street, and Passyunk Avenue, under certain terms and conditions. And Bill No. 090710, an ordinance authorizing John Kile to construct, own, and maintain an open-air sidewalk café at 2448 East Huntingdon Street, under certain terms and conditions. And Bill No. 090711, an ordinance authorizing Mick Halle to construct, own, and maintain an open-air sidewalk café at 1148-1150 South 11th Street, under certain terms and conditions. And Bill No.
090703, an ordinance amending Section 9-213 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Farmers 7 10/29/09 STS/SVCS 090573&4,583&89,668,702&3,709-11 Markets," by adding as a permissible location the west side of Wadsworth Avenue between Bayard Street and Pickering Streets, all under certain terms and conditions. And Bill No. 090712, an ordinance amending Section 9-211 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Boxes for the Distribution of News and Printed Material," by amending certain specifications for publishers' boxes, increasing licensing fees, amending permissible locations, and increasing fees, all under certain terms and conditions. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you. Will the witnesses on the bills that have been read into the record please come up to the witness table. ) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The formality we're going to go through is just for you to tell us that the testimony has been submitted to the 8 10/29/09 STS/SVCS 090573&4,583&89,668,702&3,709-11 record.
Yes. My name is Nancy Goldberg. I'm with the Center City District. Joining me is Blake Layman, who is our public space manager. I'm here to testify on behalf of Bill No. 090172 and just submit for the record written testimony provided previously by our president and CEO, Paul Levy, who is out of the country today, or he would be here. We are very much in favor of this legislation. We've been working with the City L&I on working to regulate and help bring order to the honor boxes on the street, and we think this legislation will help do that, and we are fully supportive of it. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you. Any questions for these witnesses from the committee? (No questions or comments.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you. Thank you for your patience. 9 10/29/09 STS/SVCS 090573&4,583&89,668,702&3,709-11 Mr. Morelli and Mr. Erickson, do you just want to come on up. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good afternoon, Chairman and members of the committee. I requested Bill No. 090583 be held. Currently, there's not an agreement with all of the abutting property owners, and we're waiting for that to be reached. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay. And you have testimony that's been submitted on the --
Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- bills that have been read into the record.
Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Any questions for this witness? (No questions.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Seeing none. The other testimony has been submitted by the Administration, and it's 10 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 all a part of the record. And that will so be noted.
Bill No. 090714, an ordinance amending Section 9-605 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Towing," and Chapter 12-2400 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Towing and Immobilizing of Parked or Abandoned Vehicles," by reducing the amount towing companies can charge owners of recovered, stolen, or illegally used vehicles. And Bill No. 090691, an ordinance amending Section 9-605 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Towing," and Section 12-2405, entitled "Removal or Immobilization of Parked Vehicles Notice," to prohibit the towing of vehicles identified as reported stolen unless an attempt has been made by the police to give the vehicle owner an opportunity to recover the vehicle before the vehicle was towed, and adding section 24 10-839 to require the reporting of stolen vehicles to the police, all under certain 11 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 terms and conditions. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman Clarke, do you have a statement you wanted to make?
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to speak before we hear the bill. This was a bill that was cosponsored by a few members of Council that was attempting to do a couple of things. I believe approximately five years ago, Councilwoman Joan Krajewski attempted to resolve a problem that was prevalent in the City of Philadelphia. Unfortunately, we are averaging approximately 4500 vehicles -- stolen vehicles per year, and a number of individuals have had the unfortunate situation whereas, on the recovery of their stolen vehicle, they've had to pay a fee. In the City of Philadelphia, 12 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 the demographics reflect that most people who own vehicles do not have full coverage. A vehicle that is covered with full coverage, you get reimbursed for the fee associated with the reclamation of your stolen vehicle. But, unfortunately, we have a lot of people that do not have that provision within their insurance. We felt, as Councilwoman Krajewski did at the time, that it, frankly speaking, simply wasn't fair for an individual who already had to suffer the burden of having their vehicle stolen and sometimes vandalized that there would be an additional fee imposed by the government through a towing service company to reclaim a vehicle. And this particular fee is maximized by the fact that on a daily basis, it can be -- I believe that the storage fee is approximately $25. And so, if that person doesn't have that amount of money to pay initially or can't get to that vehicle in a timely fashion, 13 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 that money can obviously accrue relatively rapidly. What we attempted to do initially was to not have a fee, or waive the fee, for an individual based on certain administrative functions and the fact that the City of Philadelphia, unlike some other municipalities, does not have the ability, or the willingness, to tow those vehicles in-house, so they must contract out for that particular service, therefore requiring a fee associated with that tow. So what we tried to do to alleviate the problem, as best possible, is to, one, give that individual whose vehicle has stolen an opportunity to reclaim the vehicle. We believe that with an hour's time from the time that they're notified, which I'm told by the police department that they do do upon -- when they find out that the vehicle has been stolen, give that person an hour's time to come and reclaim their vehicle, 14 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 so therefore there would be no fee associated with them reclaiming their vehicle. The second thing that we did three years ago, because this issue, again, came to us, we wanted -- we tried to reduce the fee associated with that. Upon our investigation, we realized that the City of Philadelphia actually had approximately $60 of the $150 fee associated with the reclamation of that vehicle. Our concern is that there was no basis for the $60 administrative fee that the City was collecting. And so, with the support, the bill was signed into law, that we reduced the City's administrative fee to $15. It was our belief at the time -- and I'll take responsibility for not following up on that -- that the total fee would subsequently be reduced to reflect the $45 reduction in administrative fees from the City's behalf, but that did not happen. The fee 15 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 continued to be $150; so therefore, the tow companies experienced a windfall associated with that particular towing fee. So one bill will hopefully give enough time to the person to reclaim their vehicle so there will be no fee in the event that they choose to. The second bill would reduce the fee to reflect the earlier administrative fee for the City of Philadelphia. We have talked to numbers of individuals who have been involved -- actually, we have one individual who, unfortunately, was a victim of this particular situation.
We've talked to the police department. I've talked to my good friend Sergeant Bee, who I think all of us know of his years of service to the government. And we understand that there is a concern about having police officers taken off the street to, quote/unquote, 16 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 babysit vehicles. That is a challenge. We by no way want that to happen in a way that it will impact negatively on their ability to service our communities. But we do believe that there is a way that the individual can be notified and that person be given enough time to come and get their vehicle without the police officer having to sit on that vehicle during that period that they have been authorized to reclaim their own vehicle. So as they say, let's have the discussion. Hopefully, we'll be in a position to move these bills. I do have one amendment on one of the bills, a technical amendment on one of the bills, so I will be asking a member of the committee to introduce the amendment. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Councilman. 17 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 Just let the record reflect that Councilman Greenlee, who's a member of this committee, is also present, and that L&I had submitted testimony in relationship to these bills, and that will be submitted as part of the record. Sergeant Bee, do you have testimony? Mr. Haver? ) SERGEANT BEE: Good afternoon, Chairman DiCicco and members of the Committee on Streets and Services. My name is Sergeant Christopher Bee, and I'm here on behalf of Commissioner Ramsey and the Philadelphia Police Department to testify regarding Bill No. 090061 as it relates to recovered stolen vehicles in Philadelphia. First, thank you for allowing the Police Department the opportunity to voice its opinion on this very important piece of legislation that directly impacts the day-to-day operations of the 18 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 Philadelphia Police Department, the safety of its officers, and the ability to protect the public. While the Police Department can appreciate the intent behind this bill, which is to protect crime victims from paying towing and storage fees for recovered stolen vehicle under certain circumstance, this legislation conflicts with a very effective City policy and will undermine both the police officer's safety and public safety For these reasons, the Philadelphia Police Department must formally object to this bill. Please allow me to provide an overview of the existing recovered stolen vehicle program in Philadelphia developed in 2001. Prior to the implementation of this program, when a police officer recovered a stolen vehicle, there was no 24 mechanism in place to prevent a vehicle from being restolen or vandalized once an 19 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 officer left the scene of the recovery to return to the district to notify the owner of the recovery. Once notified, the owners would show up on location, and in and many times in less desirable areas, only to find the vehicles missing again, vandalized, or completely stripped. Officers would attempt to disable the recovered stolen vehicles by flattening tires or pulling coil wires, but the vehicles could still be vandalized or stripped. Since no good deed goes unpunished, often, we would receive complaints against the officers for additionally damaging the vehicles they attempted to disable. It was a no-win situation for both the officers on the street as well as the owners of recovered stolen vehicles. In response, the City developed the recovered stolen vehicle program.
Briefly, this program contracts with 20 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 private tow companies that must satisfy a long list of requirements to be eligible for the program, including, but not limited to, insuring the recovered stolen vehicle is secured in a fenced area and proper assurance is maintained to protect the vehicles once in their possession Consequentially, the days of stolen, vandalized, or stripped recovered stolen vehicles no longer exists. Now, when our officers find a stolen car, they contact police radio, who immediately dispatches one of the contracted towing companies that must respond to the recovered stolen vehicle within thirty minutes. The operations room supervisor in the district of recovery is responsible to immediately notify the owner by telephone of the recovery. The officer stays with the vehicle and safeguards it until the arrival of the authorized tow truck. If the owner arrives on the scene at any 21 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 time before the car is towed, the vehicle is released to the owner. This is the existing policy. And, most importantly, this program has been a win/win for the Police Department as well as owners of recovered stolen vehicle. Given our progress in this area, this bill here today will seriously compromise the gains that we've made over the years. Namely, the additional notice amendments found in 12-2405 will require officers to contact an owner and wait thirty minutes prior to determining if the owner will appear prior to having the vehicle towed. If the owner doesn't appear, the officer will then contact police radio, who will, in turn, contact an authorized recovered stolen vehicle program tower to respond to the location to recover the vehicle. Hence, if this bill is passed, it would effectively increase the time 22 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 officers are out of service, handling recovered stolen vehicles, by one hundred percent. This is time the police officers are out of service and not available to answer 9-1-1 calls or back up fellow officers In the last COMPSTAT period for 2009, 3,006 stolen vehicles were recovered. As such, our officers were already out of service for 1,503 hours handling these recoveries. It is important to note that when the recovered stolen vehicle program was in 2001, officer and public safety were critical concerns to the Police Department. The thirty-minute time frame was not an arbitrary period of time but it was determined to be the maximum amount of time the Police Department could afford to keep officers out of service. It should be noted that towers who wanted to participate in this program had to agree that they could respond in 23 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 this time frame; otherwise, they were not eligible for the program. As mentioned, while it may not be the intent of this bill, the potential consequences are clear: Our officers will be out of service one hundred percent longer than they already are. Thirty minutes was the maximum we could afford in 2001. With less resources and manpower in the Police Department today, any law, policy, or regulation that expands the time frame, either intentionally or unintentionally, is just not in the best interest of public safety. If law was passed at the beginning of 2009, our officers would have been out of service for over 3,000 hours. This is completely unacceptable. While we must protect private property, our first responsibility is public safety. This bill will take officers away from their primary responsibilities for an unreasonable and 24 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 unacceptable period of time. With the negative impact on public safety -- I'm sorry.
While the negative impact on public safety is our primary objection to this bill, the Police Department has also some technical objections as well: Specifically, the amendments proposed in 9-60511(d) of the City Code, which deals with towing from private property, are duplicative and unnecessary The apparent intent of this amendment to this section is to ensure that stolen vehicles do not inadvertently end up on a towing company's lot as an illegally parked car. We have no objection to the intent; however, the Code, as written, already has provisions requiring police notification prior to any towing. The purpose of this notification is to determine if the vehicle was stolen. Thus, upon notification, the police radio of an 25 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 impending tow from private property, if it's determined by police radio that the vehicle has been reported stolen, the vehicle is not towed. Rather, a police officer is dispatched, and the recovered stolen vehicle program procedures take place. The amendments in this provision are, therefore, unnecessary and overly complicate the issue. Our last issue is regarding the amendments made to 10-800 requiring mandatory reporting of lost or stolen vehicles and the maintenance of a lost and stolen vehicle database by the Philadelphia Police Department. It appears the intent of these amendments are to work in conjunction with those proposed in 9-605 and 12-2405 mentioned above. Nevertheless, if the above-mentioned amendments are passed, there is no need for these provisions. First, there have never been any problems with people failing to 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 report a lost or stolen vehicle. Second, the police already inputs stolen car information into the National Crime Information System, which captures all relevant information on lost or stolen vehicles, including owner contact information. The system is more efficient to identify the owners of reported stolen vehicles. While these articulated issues are only minor technical problems identified by the Police Department, I must reiterate our primary objection to this legislation is the negative impact it will have on both public and officer safety For these reasons alone, the Philadelphia Police Department must again respectfully object to the passage of this legislation This concludes my testimony. Thank you for your time. I'll be happy to answer any questions. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, 27 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 Sergeant. Mr. Haver?
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of Council. My name is Lance Haver, Director of Consumer Affairs for the City of Philadelphia. I'd like to begin my testimony by pointing out that this problem's been created by the state Insurance Department, which does not require insurance companies to cover the cost of recovering a stolen car. If the Insurance Department was to do so, this problem would be far less vexing than it is today. Because of the inaction of the Insurance Department, the City of Philadelphia and Philadelphia consumers face a very real dilemma. As you've heard from the Police Department, they have another dilemma. When a stolen car is recovered, towed to safety, and stored, there are real costs incurred. Higher-end insurance policies often cover the cost of towing and 28 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 storage after a theft, but less expensive coverage, the type many Philadelphia consumers carry, does not. So the real cost of towing and storing your car are paid by the consumer. This bill simply keeps the cost as low as possible, attempting to make sure that no one makes a profit from the recovery of a stolen car and gives consumers an opportunity to recover their car before the costs are incurred. We should not make consumers suffer more after their car is stolen. They should have an opportunity to recover the car before towing and storage charges add to their loss. And if they cannot recover their car within a short period of time, we should make sure that the towing and storage charges are as low as possible. And I would suggest that perhaps there would be some ways of cutting the baby in half that might be more palatable. Perhaps we could have 29 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 the towing companies, which are already bonded, sit for half an hour and give consumers the chance to get their car. They're given the contracts, they're making money. This might be a way to address the issues the Police Department have and still protect consumers. The second thing would be to try and do what Councilman Clarke is very successful with doing, limiting tort options in the state, and that is to have a legal challenge to the state Insurance Department saying that they have to cover the cost -- not the actual value of the car but the costs that are incurred after a car is stolen. With that, I'd be happy to answer any of your questions. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman Clarke.
Yes. Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to ask a question. Mr. Chairman, we have a victim 30 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 who has been here since a quarter to 2. Would it be okay if she could come and testify. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm sorry. I didn't know. I saw her name but I didn't know it was a victim. Is it Lottie Webbi-Bruno?
Thanks, Mr. Chairman. (Witness comes forward.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm awfully sorry. I didn't realize -- I thought you were one of the government witnesses.
I wanted to go to Macy's shopping, actually. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Are you a City employee?
Philadelphia school system. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good. Show your ID. You get a discount today, in case you haven't heard.
For the 31 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 record, Madam President, Honorable Councilmembers, I am Lottie Webbi-Bruno. I will agree -- and I'm here to support Councilman Clarke. I could also understand what the officer, the Sergeant, is saying. And I somewhat agree with him as well. However, they're asking for thirty minutes for the victim to be contacted and say your car is stolen, it's here, there, and everywhere. It took me thirty minutes to find my way in here. One needs much more time than thirty minutes. You're called, as I was. And the pound, so to speak, or the towing, whatever, was closed; they close at 4:30. Now you have to decide, I'm taking a day off of work tomorrow, whom am I getting to take me. If someone has small children, you have to prepare for that. A half an hour, even an hour, is not enough time to go and to confiscate the car without them smacking 32 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 fees onto you. It's the towing fee, it's the day-by-day rental. Now, for instance, the insurance company, at least mine does, and I have very good coverage, does not pay for the full coverage; it pays for part. Now, I called AAA, and I said, Hi, can you go get my car, wherever it is? Now, I'm in tears. They found my Lizzy. Well, you have to find out whether or not it's moveable and whether or not we can go get it, wherever it is. So I proceed -- this is the next morning -- to call the towing area company, whatever they want to call themselves. They were very nasty, cold, and crude. " "We can't give you information. " And it has to be cash, okay? I try to call back AAA, and I 33 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 get, "Press 1, press 2," singing, dancing, all type of languages, so I hung up from them. So I'm getting in my car with my friend and crying. I proceed to go down where the car was towed. And eventually, after I got through the little, skinny window and paid my fee in cash -- and naturally, I paid for an extra day because they called me, the police officer called me, who was a very nice person, called me when the towing pound, whatever they want to call it, was closed. So there I was the next day. The car comes off the flat bed -- boom. " The car doesn't move. I can't get in the car and drive it, my friend can't get in the car and drive it because the car doesn't move. Now I have to get on the phone and either use them to tow it or, luckily, I call AAA. Now I have a half 34 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 hour to an hour wait, standing there the. Car's on the property. Are they going to charge me another day because I can't move the car? Luckily, an angel dropped out of heaven, and there was a AAA truck on the other side of the street. I zoom across. "Sir, sir, sir, here's my credentials. Here's my card. " And that's how the car got home. Why they can't work out something -- and, again, I can understand what the officer said. Why can't something be worked out like, Well, you know, do you have AAA? Well, get 'em over her in thirty minutes, and come and get your car and we'll put it in front of your house. Then if it's kicked around or it's busted up, you're responsible; it's in front of your house. 35 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 Or, is your repairman still there? We can tow it right to the garage. If this is thought out and worked on, I know there could be something that could help. You're already pierced, you're already crushed that your car has been taken. And many people do not have towing on their insurance. Or they cannot afford, or they don't want AAA. There's so much more to it. But it has to definitely -- we're a historical city, we're a sports city. This is a disgrace. I know that many of you here, good people of Philadelphia, have been cleaning up the disgraces of Philadelphia, and I so appreciate it. But this is one that has to definitely be addressed. And I jumped at it.
" 36 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 So I -- I really hope that something could be looked into with that because it's -- it's so much needed. And there are ways that we can get around it. That is an outrageous amount. And it -- it's something -- I mean, there are people that don't have $100 or $200 or $300 in their home. They want to use their credit card; they can't use it. You have to -- the next day, you have to allow for your children, run to the bank, run and get somebody to take you over there, and hope that your car moves. And if your car doesn't move, then you have to it retowed. There is a lot to it. And, again, I understand both parts. And I appreciate your time very, very much from my heart. And, again, historical city, sports city. I hope you can clean up this disgrace. And go Phillies. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you. 37 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714
Thank you. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Let me ask you a question, ma'am.
Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: What time of the day were you notified that your car had been recovered?
It -- I didn't bring my notes with me 'cause I consider them valuable. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Right.
It was in the evening. It was after 4, 30 because I remember I was told they close at 4:30. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Who are "they"? When you say "they," who do you --
Yes, you're right. A police officer called me originally. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But you say, "They were closed."
The towing -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The 38 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 impoundment?
Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The lot where your car was towed?
Yes, at 4:30. At 4:30, that was the time they were closed. And it was -- in fact, it was dinnertime. I can remember finishing my last fork of spaghetti. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Do you remember the name of that towing company? I'm curious as to why they would be closed at 4:30.
I would have to go home and look at my notes. I believe the Councilman might have that name, or will have it. I can't recall at this moment. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: If you could provide it, that would be helpful.
Definitely at 39 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 4:30. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The lots, from what I understand, are not supposed to be closed at 4:30 in the afternoon.
Well, mine was. That was two years ago, but I -- you know, and then I stated to figure it out. Good, they close 4:30 because then they have another day to charge you. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: This is why it would be helpful if you can supply us with the information on the impounded lot.
I will. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you. Any questions for this witness? (No questions.)
For Sergeant Bee. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, ma'am.
Thank you, all of you. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Sergeant 40 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 Bee? (Witness comes forward.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman Greenlee?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, Sergeant Bee. SERGEANT BEE: Good afternoon, Councilman. How are you?
Thank you. It seems like the main issue raised is -- when you talk about the safety issue is this thirty-minute period, right? Increasing police out of service. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
Is there a middle -- I know Councilman Clarke may be bringing this up too, but is there sort of a middle ground here. Do the police have to be, like, sitting right there? 41 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 I mean, can't -- I'm visualizing something like over the radio, there's a stolen car at "1234 Jabib Street," and the cars in that sector are all aware of that; they try to get by as soon as they can. But, you know, I don't think we're looking to take the police off the street any more time, but just giving people -- I just think if you live in the Northeast and your car was stolen and left in Eastwick, I don't know how you get -- it's very hard to get down there in thirty minutes. An hour's tough, but thirty minutes would really be rough. And, you know, you might get tickets from those red cameras on Roosevelt Boulevard or something. SERGEANT BEE: Councilman, there may be some misunderstanding here. The idea and intent is not to give people thirty minutes to get to the car initially. The way this program is 42 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 designed is, the tower will respond within thirty minutes to the officer notifying police radio once the tower's notified by police radio.
Okay. SERGEANT BEE: Okay, notifying of the actual owner, as in your situation, is done when the officer brings the paperwork into the district down by the operations room supervisor.
Okay. SERGEANT BEE: And if it's right around the corner, there are instances -- or a couple blocks away, where the police will go over, have another car go over and notify an owner, Your car is right here.
Mm-hmm. SERGEANT BEE: But given your instance, it's not made to give people thirty minutes to respond. The thirty-minute window is the time tower has to come and pick up the car.
Okay. 43 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 But I think this bill would give an hour notification. Am I right, Councilman Clarke?
The amendment would, yeah. And what I'm saying is -- and I think your concern was that sixty minutes would take a car totally off the street to just sit there -- and I think you used the words "babysit the car." SERGEANT BEE: That was Councilman Clarke.
Oh, okay. Councilman Clarke said "babysit the car." Couldn't it be given that sixty minutes and just have the police in the district aware of that? Do they have to sit right there? I mean -- SERGEANT BEE: Well, to safeguard the car, yes, so it doesn't incur any -- our position is so it doesn't incur any further damage, any 44 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 type of vandalism, being restolen again.
Okay. SERGEANT BEE: In a perfect world, and given we could control things, that would be great. But, as you well know, priorities jump up immediately, not just in districts, but all over the City where the police have to respond to. So there may not be anybody available in that area to go back and take care of this car.
Mm-hmm. SERGEANT BEE: And as you well know, even with the Parking Authority, when the Parking Authority does Live Stop, police are on location, they stay there until the Parking Authority hooks the car and takes it to safeguard the vehicle as well as, you know, the people from the Parking Authority.
Point of order, point of order. 45 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 Sergeant Bee, in all due respect, Live Stop is based on a person having the illegal operation of the car. And to compare that to somebody whose car was stolen, I don't think it's fair. SERGEANT BEE: I was just giving an example of safeguarding the vehicle.
And the reality is, the police officer is on location to make sure that that person whose car is taken at Live Stop does not respond to the Parking Authority officer who's towing the car. SERGEANT BEE: Or for the car to be damaged in any way.
Sergeant, you and I are long good friends. SERGEANT BEE: Okay.
I know that those police officers are called to that 46 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 site because when somebody's vehicle is taken, there's a strong likelihood that there could potentially be a problem. And the police officer is there to ensure that there's not a problem with that person's car being taken. SERGEANT BEE: Well, plus the officer initiates the contact as well. That's correct.
But i guess what we're trying to find -- and I'm sure is the intent behind the bill -- is give a reasonable time for the person to be able to get their car back and not have to pay any money and be victimized twice. When this first came up -- and, you know, I'm not saying it doesn't work in lot of areas. I know I've heard complaints from a number of people saying, "I got my car stolen. And now I got to pay to get it back, and I didn't even get a chance to give it." 47 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 You know, I think this gives what seems to me -- is why I cosponsored the bill -- a reasonable time frame. And, again, I'm not thinking about the police just sitting there; you know, I don't want that either. But it just seems to me that to give the people -- the victim some chance to get their car back, without having to incur any costs -- or at least towing costs, there might be other costs involved -- is, you know, a reasonable approach to this. I mean, I understand what you're saying. It just seems to me that this is -- like I said, find like a middle ground to give a person some time to get their car back. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess I'm trying to 48 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 understand the term "process." SERGEANT BEE: Okay.
So forget the bill for a second. The current process is, the police find a stolen car parked on the street somewhere or in a lot or whatever. They immediately inform a tow company. The law is, the tow company must get there within a half an hour. SERGEANT BEE: That's correct.
So there's no involvement -- the current state of the law is, the person whose car was stolen is not notified at all prior to it being towed. SERGEANT BEE: In the majority of the cases, that's absolutely correct.
Okay. So what Councilman Clarke is suggesting is that the person whose car is stolen be notified and be given an hour to come and recover it. That's what this amendment does. 49 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 SERGEANT BEE: Right.
Okay. So what legal requirement is there? \-if the police have not removed the car and just found the car, I'm not sure I understand how the City of Philadelphia or the Police Department becomes responsible for the car itself, parked wherever the robber left it. Like you gave testimony, but you didn't say, Here's the Pennsylvania law that makes us responsible, here's the Philadelphia law that makes us responsible. Where is the law that makes the Philadelphia Police Department responsible for leaving that car there for an hour? SERGEANT BEE: This was a program that was set up. I'm not saying there's a law that says we are responsible. This is a program that was designed and set up for people to get a whole car back, I will say -- 50 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714
So it was designed -- do we have any statistics prior to the program being set up, probably at the request of the towing company lobby, do we have any statistics that would say of the thousand -- 4500 cars you recover a year, whatever it is, between the time, you know, a police officer discovered it and then the person picked it up, one percent were further vandalized or missing when the person arrived, or two percent were. Because it seems to me that if you do a cost-benefit analysis, just having the police stay there for even half an hour makes no sense -- SERGEANT BEE: Well --
-- because -- you know what I mean? Like there's -- what did you say, there would be 1500 hours so far this year? 51 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 SERGEANT BEE: Sure.
So like -- okay, in that half hour, how likely is it that, really, anything's going to happen? I mean, the whole -- the existing program is not logical. I'm not sure, you know, if this amendment is a good step in the right direction, but I'm not sure this whole existing program just doesn't need to be blown up and you inform, you know, a lot -- you inform the people where their car is, and it's their problem. Why do we tow it at all? SERGEANT BEE: Well, the only thing I can address there is, number one, when the police do recover it, they are responsible for the actual recovery and taking it out of the system.
If you recover it, if you take possession of it by having a towing company, yes. But if you just inform the citizen where it is in the street, why is that -- SERGEANT BEE: Well, the car is 52 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 reported in NCIC, National Crime Information Center.
Right. SERGEANT BEE: Okay? We have to take the car out of stolen status. So, therefore, the officer has to be there to investigate and take it out of status.
You're saying that as soon as the police find the car, federal law -- prior to it coming into police possession, federal law requires them to take it out of NCIC. SERGEANT BEE: It's got to be taken out. It's absolutely has to be taken out.
When? What is the law? SERGEANT BEE: As soon as we contact --
-- federal 53 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 statute -- SERGEANT BEE: NCIC, National Crime Information Systems and Center, yes. If we leave the call in stolen car, if it's your car and we notify, Here's your car at 18th and Pine," for example, all right?
Right. SERGEANT BEE: It's not taken -- if we don't take it out of stolen status immediately, you come and get your car or you send somebody to get your car, you're still driving a car that's on stolen status. Therefore, you'll get stopped. And if it's not you or it's someone else, well, now you may enter into the -- not you per se, but someone you sent to get the car could end up in the judicial system for driving a stolen car if you take it into the district because the car is still on stolen status.
I recognize where 54 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 you're going with this, but part of the problem is he'd have the same complaints from me again: You found my car and you didn't do anything. SERGEANT BEE: Right.
I'd be injured twice now -- by the first person who stole the car --
Yeah, but that's what we do, we make choices with -- we have limited resources. And, you know, governing is choosing between competing ideas for good. And it seems to me that you can't -- this just doesn't make -- this current system doesn't make a lot of sense.
And that part I would agree with you, but I'm just suggesting that leaving it there, oftentimes, it's in -- the way the police recover it, and correct me if I'm wrong, but --
I'm not 55 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 suggesting that we leave it there for ten days.
What I'm saying is, how much -- how many times statistically has what your fear is actually occurred? Why did we put this system in place? SERGEANT BEE: Well, statistically, I can tell you, depending on the value of these cars, they lay on the street and do become stripped if the owners don't want to go get them or they become eyesores, they become --
How long though? SERGEANT BEE: I can't give you that. I'd have to --
So if we were to -- SERGEANT BEE: It could be a period of over ten days, it could be a period of over five days.
So if we 56 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 were to say you have -- the police are not going to stand be that car. Two hours from the time you discover it, you're going to take it out of NCIS. And the person has two hours to come and get it. In other words, in that two-hour window, what is the statistical probability that someone's going to mess with that car, in that two-hour window? Especially if the police are coming by once in a while, as Councilman Greenlee suggested. SERGEANT BEE: And everybody's assuming the police are going to be able to come by. And given our resources --
It's two hours. SERGEANT BEE: Anything can happen, things can happen.
Sure, but -- 57 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 SERGEANT BEE: Things can happen in five minutes.
Sure, but there's a lot of other cars on that street and every other street. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think what I'm hearing -- and correct me if I'm wrong, Councilman Green -- is, I think you did say it, is that the police maybe should just report the car as having been found or located.
Right. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Call it in. Every attempt is made to reach the owner to let him know that that the car is now at 11th and Federal. And then it's over. Don't worry about a tow company coming in to remove it. I think the problem is -- and I believe it may have been in your testimony -- is that there's criticism to the Police Department at that point. You found my car, you left it here. I come to pick it up, it's no longer here or 58 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 it's been stripped. The cops didn't do their job. SERGEANT BEE: Well, Councilman, that's the problem -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I mean, I know they have to make decisions on priorities, but I think that -- it's a no-win situation no matter what you do. SERGEANT BEE: That's another problem you just said. We take the car. We've recovered the car, we take it -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Take it off the -- SERGEANT BEE: You know, we take it out of NCIC. The person comes to get the car -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's gone. SERGEANT BEE: -- and the car's not there. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.) SERGEANT BEE: Now it's actually entered back in --
But, I mean, 59 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 what I -- we have accepted responsibility and now made it our fault, rather than saying to the citizen, We have located your car, this is where it is, you arrange for a tow company of your choice to come get it. And if you don't within three hours, four hours, we are going to remove it. So you give them the opportunity and a real amount of time to do it. And you're not leaving it there for days. And we're not -- and we don't pretend -- we say we are not responsible, we are not sitting by this car. There's other crime in this city. We have found your car. Act quickly or it will end up in one of our impound lots. Or someone could take it. I mean, the system is designed to keep towing companies fed. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think that's kind of a rational approach, but I can almost hear the person on the other 60 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 line saying, Look at this. They steal my car. And now they're telling me, you know, if you don't give it off the street, it's your -- you got another problem. It's like the City's putting another burden on them.
I agree. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No matter what you do, you're going to get criticized for it. SERGEANT BEE: One thing, if I may, to all address this. This program has seemed to get more of a whole car back to, A, the owners, who don't have full coverage with less damage; and, B, it gets back to the insurance company. The cars that are fully insured, insurance companies aren't putting out as much money to get these cars repaired. And that's been something that's been looked at.
Excuse me, Mr. Chair. 61 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you. You know, I was sitting here thinking that the citizen should have the ability to be involved in a decision, they should make the choice. You call, you say, Hey, we found your car. And, you know, you have a hour to come, or two hours, whatever, to get the car. You can come and get the car. Or if you can't do that, then we can have it towed. So that gives them the choice. And then they understand, you know, what their needs are and what the reality is financially, whether they can come and get the car. Or if they can get someone that they know to come and tow it. But do you -- when someone steals a car, when you recover the car, do you dust for fingerprints or anything like that? Is that like a crime scene? 62 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 SERGEANT BEE: Councilwoman Miller, not in this particular instance. If it's a guard-for-print car, the Police Department handles the whole thing from soup to nuts.
Okay. SERGEANT BEE: We don't call one of the private contractors telling people out, as of right now, to get that car.
Okay. So if the car is just stolen, there's no 14 crime scene and there's no dusting. SERGEANT BEE: Right.
But if it was involved in a crime, then all that goes on. SERGEANT BEE: Then that's a whole different situation.
Okay. So when you talk about removing, you said that the cost of immobilizing the car was -- what is immobilizing other than having a police officer actually sit 63 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 there until the tow truck comes? SERGEANT BEE: I didn't address about immobilizing; we don't really do anything with immobilizing. All we do is have the officer stand by the vehicle until some towing company comes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think from your testimony, you did say that there was a practice of immobilizing them.
That was prior, to prior to -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: As I said, there -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
Okay. SERGEANT BEE: Prior to the practice, what we basically did is, we tried to disable the vehicle by flattening a front or rear tire or also pulling out a coil wire.
Okay. So 64 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And then that got the police in trouble because people said you --
You flattened my tires. Now I got to buy some new tires, right. SERGEANT BEE: Or bring an air tank with you.
All right. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman Jones.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. From the time -- or the cost of the towing, from the time it is discovered and stored and that reoccurring charge in order for the victim to get it back, that's the victim's burden. SERGEANT BEE: That's correct. Councilman Jones, what happens, 65 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 the owners are notified as soon as the car is recovered, when the paperwork is taken in, which is immediately, to the district after the vehicle is recovered. That's the first time they're notified, by the operations supervisor. There's a unit, the recovered stolen vehicle unit, which is down at 4000 North American, which is a centralized location, that also receives all of these recovered stolen autos. If there's no response by the owner, they send out -- they make a second phone call to the owner, all right? If there's no response, they send out a certified letter to the owner stating, Your car has been recovered, and informing them that they have to come the 4000 North American with all of their paperwork, being a valid driver's license, current registration, and proof insurance. They're issued a release. Once they're issued a release, then they take that release to the tow 66 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 company.
In the case where you apprehend the car thief, is the car towed at that point? Or is the notification process similar to when it's just abandoned? SERGEANT BEE: Once again, if it's a recovered stolen vehicle and it is not a guard-for-fingerprint car --
No, I mean if someone -- if you Live Stop someone and they are found in the car and the car is stolen, what happens to the car? SERGEANT BEE: That follows the recovered stolen vehicle program where the officer on location will call.
So it's a similar process. SERGEANT BEE: It's the same.
And at that point that you found someone in the car that stole the car, is the burden of all of the tow, is that somehow assessed to them as a fine if they're found guilty? 67 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 SERGEANT BEE: Not to my knowledge, no. It's still the burden of the owner of the vehicle.
So the criminal has no responsibility for his -- SERGEANT BEE: I guess -- I would say no, not if the way this program goes, unless the courts would order it as a part of restitution, which, of course, could be done.
Thank you. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I have another (indiscernible) for clarification. A stolen car gets recovered, the officer calls that into the district or the -- SERGEANT BEE: The car is recovered. Once the tow company's on location -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No, no. 22 SERGEANT BEE: I'm sorry. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You're driving, you're a police officer, you see a car, you realize it's a stolen vehicle, 68 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 what do you, the first thing you do? SERGEANT BEE: The car's ran through the computer that it is a stolen vehicle, you notify the police radio. The police radio then, in turn, dispatches one of the -- if it's not a guard-for-print vehicle, dispatches one of the contracted towers. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'll stop you right there. How soon after that tow truck, or tow company, is notified, how soon after that is an attempt made to find the owner of the vehicle? SERGEANT BEE: Once that vehicle is up and being towed en route to wherever it's going, the officer immediately goes into the police district and hands the paperwork over to the operations room supervisor, who makes the notification. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: There's no 24 way that at the time that the vehicle is recovered that the call could be made, or 69 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 attempted call to the owner, either at the same time that the tow company's being notified or before the tow company's notified so that you got that thirty-minute period. Do you know what I'm saying? It's kind of like you're getting the car towed before you find the owner. If there's a way of notifying the owner, Your car is at 12th and Federal, we've located it, we're going to be calling a tow company. Unless you have your own company to tow it, you got thirty minutes to make that decision. I don't want to complicate it for you, but I think that the perception is that it's all for the tow companies and not necessarily respecting the property owner. I think that that could be the interpretation out there. SERGEANT BEE: You know, I'm sure that in these days of cellphones right now, anything is possible, sure. I mean, that's without a doubt. I'm not 70 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 going to tell you no. I mean, that would be incumbent upon the officer to use his only private cell phone to do that. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The officer finds the car -- it could be at the far end of the district, the Third District, it could be at South Street. Third District is at Wharton Street, right? Finds the car, calls it in, the tow truck is dispatched, got to get there in thirty minutes. You're on your way back to the district to turn the papers in. On a good day, you're there in five minutes or less. Say five minutes. Five, maybe ten, minutes from the time it was found has already passed. Now you got to bring the paperwork in, somebody's got to look it over. I don't know how they physically do all this stuff, but look it over, try to find the owner and notify the owner, Well, we found your car, it's at 13th and South. You got thirty minutes. But 71 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 really you have less than 30 'cause it's already been called into the tow truck operator. SERGEANT BEE: Right. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm just trying to kind of give the owner-operator a little bit more time to get there without tying you up. See, I disagree with part of this intent that may cause police have to be onsite longer than that period of time. And I'm, for one, on the record as being opposed to that. SERGEANT BEE: The only problem being, what happens, the tow operator is given by the police a copy of a form that has to be taken with him to tow the vehicle. These people -- the towers -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So you got to be there -- SERGEANT BEE: The towers can't just pick the vehicle up 'cause the police told them to. 72 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Could they go to the district and get the paper?
SERGEANT BEE: Sure. I'm sure they could. But then once again, we're -- you know, as Councilman Green said, we're leaving the vehicle, which, if we're going to make a -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah. ) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I said this earlier: I don't think there's any perfect solution to this. I think, you know, I can be told the car is there. And, you know, if it takes an hour -- if you say, Well, we're going to give you sixty minutes as opposed to thirty, you may not get there in sixty minutes, and you may be under the false impression that when you get there, an officer's going to be there, and that officer could 73 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 be gone because you didn't make it in an hour. I don't know if we really accomplish anything.
Just the fact that you contact the car owner and give the car owner the right to ask the tow truck company to drive it to their property and pay for it with a credit card would be a tremendous advantage. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah. I don't know why they won't accept a credit card. I understand maybe why they won't take a check, but unless the credit card -- unless the tow operator doesn't have the ability to swipe the card --
But you could make that a part of the contract. We contract with these towing companies, and we could require them -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, I'm not saying you can't, but currently I would suspect they don't have it, but I could be wrong. AAA may have it but, you 74 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 know... Councilman Jones?
I never get to ask the questions. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You were on it. You got yourself off of it.
You're right. I take that back. It was my fault. Actually, you all, members of the committee, actually pretty much asked every question that I was going to ask. And as I say, Sergeant, you and I are good friends and I know you genuinely believe what you're saying. And I like what Councilwoman Miller said. And I know, Councilman, you said you were going to mention that, 75 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 Councilman Jones, that I genuinely believe -- first of all, I got to say that I actually thought that you -- was led to believe that the police did call the property owner at the same time that they called the tow company. Now I'm hearing that they don't even do that, which leads me to believe we need to do something even more so. And I agree with what Councilwoman Miller is suggesting, that that person should be given a choice. Simply call the person. And now Mr. Haver has added another solution, and as we have these kinds of discussions, it seems like good ideas continue to come. And actually, I was going to make a suggestion, 'cause I think that we can get what we need to get without burdening the police officers. 'Cause, you know -- you know, I definitely need police officers out on the street; I actually need them down the corner from 76 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 me sometimes. Mr. Chairman and members of the, if at all possible, the one bill, which is the reduction of the fee, which, from my perspective, should be a no-brainer, 'cause the companies have been getting this money inadvertently for three years. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Not to interrupt. My understanding is that they have agreed to that. They've already agreed to that.
Yeah. So I'm saying to move that, pass that in a timely way. And if I can take a page from Councilman DiCicco's book, if we can move this bill that has a level of controversy surrounding it out of committee -- and I will agree to hold it on the calendar until we come up with a consensus. And, you know, you all know me. I will not move it if we can't come up with an agreement. You know, I, more 77 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 than anybody else, don't want to take police officers off the street and will not move it in that form. Sergeant, I know you know your business, and I should have been dealing with you from the beginning. SERGEANT BEE: Thank you, Councilman.
Mr. Haver, "Mr. Consumer," you know, what I mean, he has good ideas.
If you're going to allow me to get one last thing in, perhaps when you amend the part of the bill reducing the fees could include that they must take the credit card, which you've done for other towing issues?
That's a contractual issue. I mean, we can do that on the calendar. I'm assuming that, 'cause that's relating to money, that the Administration would have to -- I guess they don't have to; we can do whatever we want as a part of the contract. 78 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 That probably should warrant at least a minimum of discussion with the Administration before we put that amendment in here. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And I think it would give us time to maybe, if we can, Sergeant, get some answers to some of the questions that were raised by Councilman Green, if there's any statistical data out there. SERGEANT BEE: Absolutely. Whatever questions the Councilman has we can certainly look into. And if we can provide 'em, we'd be glad to do that. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you. Councilman Jones?
Yes. One other question that I have is, could you provide the Chair with a list of qualifications for the towing companies that are on the list and whether or not any of them are minority- or female-owned and whether they're Philadelphia-based? SERGEANT BEE: I can tell you 79 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 that all of them are Philadelphia-based. And, absolutely, we can provide you with -- whatever questions you have we can definitely provide the answers. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilwoman Miller?
Probably a copy of the application. You said that they have to meet certain criteria? SERGEANT BEE: Certain criteria that -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
-- of the application, correct? SERGEANT BEE: We can give you a list of the criteria.
Okay. SERGEANT BEE: Whatever -- Chairman DiCicco, if he wants to get us all the questions, we can gladly answer them.
Okay. And let me ask you one question regarding 80 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 towing. Did you change the way towers are selected? Like if it's a -- someone told me at one point, if there was an accident and there was a list of towers and that's who you can call, who was next on the list, I think that changed, though, didn't it? SERGEANT BEE: Yeah. I don't deal per se. That's something that was done between L&I with the -- the crash car program is what we call it when there's an accident on one of the highways and they have to call a car for tow.
Right. Because, you know, a person could have their own personal friend that has a tow company that may not charge them as much as, you know, somebody on the list. And I don't know whether that's been -- I don't know whether that issue -- that rotating list sometimes doesn't work for people, and I know that's not 81 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 your problem. SERGEANT BEE: No. It's a big rotating list.
Right. SERGEANT BEE: I know that, that's all I do know.
All right, okay. Thank you. SERGEANT BEE: You're welcome, Councilwoman. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman Clarke, your light is still on.
Oh, I'm sorry. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Any further questions? Councilman Green?
No. 23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No? I thought you were going to talk.
I'm going to 82 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 make a statement. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Oh, okay.
Thank you for your testimony. You really did inform us about the current process. And, you know, I certainly learned a lot, being here today, about this particular issue, which I was paying no attention to in the City of Philadelphia before today, I'm sorry to admit. But, you know, the legislative process is ugly to watch, but we really are trying to do our best, and we look forward to working with you to come up with something that will work for our citizens. SERGEANT BEE: Councilman, it's my pleasure. And like I said, if there's any questions that have to be answered, we'll be glad to get the answers for you. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Sergeant. Thank you, Lance. 83 10/29/09 STREETS & SERVICES, BILLS 090691, 714 Being no further questions --
Mr. Chair, I just want to say that there is one amendment to the bill. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We'll do it in a public meeting.
I had two but there's one for the other bill. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: This concludes public hearing on the Committee of Streets and Services. We will now go into the public meeting. * * * 84 10/29/09 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that the following bills be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and that the rules of Council be suspended to allow first reading at our next session of Council. Those bills are: 090573. 090574. 090575. 090589. 090668. 090702. 090709. 090710. 090711. 090703. 090712. I move -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You did make the move. Is there a second? 85 10/29/09 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING (Motion duly seconded.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's been properly moved and seconded that the bills that have just read into the record be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and that the rules of Council be suspended. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed? Those bills have been approved. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move the amendment, as proposed by Councilman Clarke, be approved for Bill No. 090714. (Motion duly seconded.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's been properly moved and seconded that the amendment to Bill No. 090714 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation. 86 10/29/09 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The amendment's approved. Councilman Greenlee?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill No. 090714, as amended, be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and that the rules of Council be suspended to allow for first reading at our next session of Council. (Motion duly seconded.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 18 090714, as amended, be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and that the rules of Council be suspended. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The bill is approved. 87 10/29/09 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING Councilman Greenlee.
Okay. Councilman Clarke has an amendment for this bill too? For 691?
Yeah, the amendment actually would have taken it from thirty minutes to sixty minutes, but since we're going to work on a final solution -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
Okay. Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 090691 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation. (Motion duly seconded.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 20 090691 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The bill is approved. 88 10/29/09 RULES COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING This concludes the public meeting of the Committee on Streets and Services. Thank you all for your attendance. (Proceedings end at 4:46.m.) * * * 89 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings of the City of Philadelphia Council Committee on Streets and Services are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me on Thursday, October 29, 2009, and that this is a true and correct statement of same. __________________________________ JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)