um well maybe a few things i could come back to but i feel like uh you made you understand what
it is that we're proposing to do i i've enclosed in the packet i should point this out there are
a number of properties um one of the one of the statements that was made in the rco opposition
letter was that this was right in the middle of a residential, pardon me, right in the middle of a
residential neighborhood. And it was, it's actually on the edge. I mean, it's next to a very large
medical complex. Photographs right here will show you from the property, the front yard, what it
looks like when you look at your next door neighbor. That's Jefferson. That's Jefferson, yeah. Right.
So it's not exactly directly in the middle of the neighborhood. However, there are instances
places very nearby where a religious assembly would be allowed, and I want to just point out a couple of them. This one is about four doors up from from the property, and it is a CMX one, which would allow religious assembly.
but interestingly there are no uh no parking spaces um that are offered for so well but i
don't think you're allowed to be parking on the sidewalk i'm not sure i didn't i didn't check to
see if they had a permit but the point is that they don't have 20 parking spaces waiting for
them in the back right so it's not really an ideal spot um there is on the same block uh at
10150 busselton avenue also in rsd3 a religious assembly uh where the beth emmanuel congregation
is actually situated pardon me actually situated directly between residences multiple residences
on either side so that is in the middle of a residential neighborhood on the same block
and operating um in fact their schedule it's posted online so you can see they have
many more service hours than the ones that are proposed. On the same block, I also want to point
out just down the street at 10111 Varee Road, also an RSD3, religious assembly is happening
at the Philadelphia Tabernacle Church of God. There are two off-street parking spaces. And again,
this is on the same exact block, same street. This is more information you can see about the
church um let's oh another block up there is a masjid that has been operating uh for i don't
know how long but it's uh it's a beautiful building 10663 bustleton ave okay also uh not
allowed religious assembly of the caa1 without zoning board approval um so i just wanted to
point out that there's instances of religious use being allowed that's right okay uh oh this is what
What I wanted to find out, I thought this was fascinating when I did my research, that the RTA1 directly across the street would allow for religious assembly in an enclosed structure on their properties.
So if...
On the other side of the street, you would...
Directly across the street.
Yeah, it's fascinating.
I mean, it might need to be revised.
Let's look at it.
So here's your place.
Jefferson is to, I'm going to say to your right.
And then to your left is a beauty salon.
A house with a beauty salon.
And here it is. Here's the picture, right? And all of the trees. I believe there was some question also in the RCO letter about a neighbor behind being concerned that this would be disruptive to their tranquility.
being concerned that this would be disruptive to their tranquility.
All right, so why don't we do this?
I pretty much think I understand what your case is.
Why don't I open this up to some questions from the board?
You could have your testimony adopted first, okay?
Yeah, I'd love to.
Minister, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yeah, my name is Tony, T-O-N-Y, last name, letter X, letter U, I pronounced U.
Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Right. Why don't you have your testimony adopted?
Okay. Pastor Hsu, would you allow the testimony that I gave today on your behalf to be adopted as truthful and complete?
Yes, sir.
Right. So we'll go from questions from the board, then we'll work our way and see if there's anybody in the audience.
Okay. So questions from the board.
Okay. For the services, so you have all these chairs set up, but are you planning to have the hybrid kind of services, like where some people will be in the space and others will be on Zoom or whatever you use as your platform?
Yeah. Right now, 100% virtual right now. In the future, we hope some people in the neighborhood, while virtual, can come into a person.
And where you—
Oh, all right. Thanks, sir.
And is that the same plan with the Bible study and the prayer meeting?
Yes, ma'am.
Okay. Because that's what our church does. We have the Bible study is—or prayer meeting is like on Wednesday night,
but it's on a it's actually on a phone line it's not even yeah a zoom kind of thing okay
and then uh are you planning to have um like a church office
church office well basically just me right now actually just me my wife has helper i never even
thought of a question office what what is a church office just curious well it's usually where you
know you have somebody there who answers the phone uh you know does support for the pastor
like you know answers the phone for them uh writes letters for them and i will just point out that at
the moment that is his wife lucy uh who manages all of that okay but you don't have a space in
there for it there if if there i will point out that there actually is space for uh office use
there's two office users not i'm not saying that but you don't have that kind of like carved out
as no no and i was just wondering if you were planning to have that okay and then um the um
so the what kind of size congregation do you have zero right now in person zero
Everything's on online virtual.
Right.
But, I mean, you do have an idea.
Oh, yeah.
How many are.
For Sunday service, we have two sessions right now.
One is 830, mainly focused on mainland China, Asian countries, roughly 50 to 60 people.
I don't know how many people, but devices.
So I can count.
But they're not going to be coming.
No, no way.
Basically, Asian.
Definitely not in this administration.
Right.
The administration is out there.
Right there. The second service in mainly USA, West Coast, East Coast, on Zoom, roughly 20.
And a lot of people go to YouTube. We also do YouTube. YouTube more people.
Yeah, something like that.
Yeah, a lot of churches do.
Okay, all right. And then you're going to have all the other kinds of rites that you would have with a church.
There's weddings, funerals, that kind of thing.
I don't think that's the part of funerals and weddings there. I don't think so.
The plan was not to have funerals or weddings or something. It's literally, it's preaching online.
Ever? Yeah.
Right.
You plan on growing your congregation.
I feel like you've more than explained your current operations.
I think the questions and I think even to address RCO concerns are really about what could happen in the future.
also what could happen if somebody behind you ends up in this building so right because once
it's approved for use it's approved stays with the property so i think like better understanding
your your aspirations for growth you certainly have enough space here to host other types of
church events and to host things in person right and i think that's you know that's a question
can i ask him some of these questions absolutely get this out do you do you plan to offer yeah
you plan to offer funeral services at your church um would you want to in the future offer
Would you want to, in the future, offer baptismal services or weddings or anything like that?
Do you have any intention or plans in the future to host any kind of events beyond praying and preaching and Bible study?
I don't know if you do or not.
Even social services. I mean, I think churches have a lot of ministry work that goes beyond
events, right? And that just involves people. Yeah. So in our conversations, I believe that
that his heart and his mind is to serve the community and to be open to it. I don't know
that he knows what that would look like in terms of the need of the community,
but I do believe that his intention is to make the space spiritually open for people who are
seeking counsel and Bible study and religious services but those other items are like social
service items like a food distribution something a food distribution I'm thinking your marital
council like just any other thing that the other thing that that Pastor Tony has said is if that's
what, one, the community needs, and the community wants, and it is allowed, then that's what
the church would do.
But if it's not allowed, and it's not wanted or needed, then you wouldn't do it.
And so that's the question.
I don't think there's a plan to do it.
I mean, I think the frankness that I would have is that I think at this point, you're
now juggling two communities, right?
You have your church and your religious community, both online and in person as it grows, and
you have the physical community in this neighborhood and those might not always overlap and so i think
just for you i mean there's a lot of things that are allowed under religious use and because you're
not planning to do any of it now i would just hope that if if you were to get approved as you move
forward that you figure out some bridge or some way to stay involved in your physical community
and i think you living there plays a role in that being more likely that's in fact i think
what is driving all of this is to become part of a community um i think my only other question is
about signage there's an existing standing sign in the front that wasn't included in this
application so is your plan just to replace that sign as is or ideally it would be just replace
the sign exactly as it is with different lettering okay and then and so no crosses or anything like
on the roof like typically churches have other signage and religious icons that kind of denote
it as a church and right aside aside from that flat sign that identifies the former uh doctor's
office okay there's no plans for for converting any other part of the property without necessarily
convert you just it wouldn't be adding uh and just a reminder that if that happens because
it's not included in this application you just have to come back to something for that that was
giving me my next comment yes signage is not included why don't we do this why don't we see
if there's anybody in the audience to get it so do you have anything at all i i have no questions
questions or comments from the virtual audience let's see i see no hands chair okay um planning
commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change from the existing rsd3 residential
single-family detached zoning at this location there is a documented use of single-family
residential in conjunction with a commercial use the property was used as a physician's office in
1999 and a veterinary office in 1961. the proposed use will not cause detrimental impact beyond what
would reasonably be expected. The Planning Commission recommends the board grant the
requested use variance for religious and assembly use. So I'm not going to vote today, but wait till
next week. And I want to sit with the board and just get our hands around this, what this means
and things like that. Okay. But we will vote next. It's going to be Wednesday the 2nd. Wednesday
have to you can listen online but that's you know that's what i meant i didn't need to physically
it'll happen online okay so that's helpful to know i do have a question for the board
um because these questions are are really helpful in thinking about uh potential provisos
uh if that would be helpful to restrict uh future uses because i i heard the churches
is we'll we'll let us work okay okay we'll work okay okay um thank you very much you're welcome
oh yes we want to make sure it's 2 p.m yeah 2 p.m we just right um thank you very much we look
forward coming in we appreciate you've sat there a long time is there anyone in the audience whose
Is there anyone in the audience whose two o'clock case has not been called?
uh two o'clock case has not been called i see no hand
I see no hands, Chair.
Okay, so we only have three cases left, but we're going to take a little bit of a break,
five-minute break, maybe six minutes, and come back.
We're okay.
Good afternoon, everyone.
My name is Bill Bergman, and I will be chairing this meeting of the Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment.
With me is our Vice Chair, Tannetta Graham.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Our Board Secretary, Cheryl L. Gaston.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
board members michael johns president mr chairman taiwan she should be here any minute coming
through the door and ryan mcadams president mr chairman so here is our attorney lynn reuter uber
our uh executive director ian haggerty and our board administrator lakeisha dandy this hearing
is being recorded and will be posted on the zba website by participating you consent to be
recorded. This is an in-person meeting with remote participation. Whether in
person or on Zoom, if you're called to speak, please state and spell your name,
wait to be sworn in, and then state your name each time before testifying. To enter
your appearance, indicate the property address on your Zoom webinar, speak with
a staff member call the ZBA office by the close of business tomorrow call 215-686-2429
and also provide your name your email and the address of the property in question
remote participation raise your virtual hand when directed so that we can call on you
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Use the Q&A only for procedural questions, nothing to do with the case.
If you are joining by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute you.
So let's see what our schedule looks like this afternoon.
Did that work?
Yep, you did.
Number two, 1447 West Cayuga Street, MI 20-25-006-623.
This case is continued until 1-20-27 at 3-30.
number five 69 30 king sesson street which is mi 2025 007 187 we have no exhibits for this
and let me call the
this number
Steve Masters is the attorney
investing
nationwide is the company
listed company