Committee Hearing, December 12, 2000

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE the COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, 12/12/2000 10:05 a.m. - - - RESOLUTION NO. 000044 - Authorizing the City Council's Committee on Public Safety to hold public hearings to monitor the progress made in improving the handling of sexual assault complaints as set forth in the recommendations adopted by the entire City Council on December 16, 1999. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ, Chair COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS-BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY I N D E X Police Commissioner John Timoney. . . . . . . Special Assistant Brad Richman. . . . . . . . 5 Joe Mooney, Commanding Officer. . . . . . . . 12 Special Victims Unit Richard Tustin, Acting Director . . . . . . . 73 Capital Program Office Carol Johnson, Women Organized Against Rape 95 Carol Tracy, Executive Director, Law Project 96 Chris Kirchner, Executive Director. . . . . . 138 Philadelphia Children's Alliance 3 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 P R O C E E D I N G S

Good morning. I can see by the people flowing off the rafters, by the huge crowd we have that this is of great concern to the multimillionaires that reside in the City here. And you can see that we have a multitude of interest, 'cause we're talking about -- we're not talking about new stadiums; we're relocating a Special Victims Unit. And maybe we -- maybe, maybe, maybe we might be able to find some money for a Special Victims Unit out of those crumbs that fall off the stadium deal, you know what I mean? Those little things that come off, because we have certain priorities. But good morning. This is a hearing of the Public Safety Committee. Could you read the text of the resolution, please, the title.

Resolution No. 000044, authorizing the City Council's Committee on Public Safety to hold public hearings to monitor the progress made in improving the handling of sexual assault complaints as set forth in the recommendations adopted by the entire City Council on December 16, 1999. 4 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

Thank you. Commissioner Timoney, we've been through this before. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, sir.

There's a continuing saga of the Special Victims Unit and we're going to keep on going until we get it right. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Hopefully, Mr. Councilman, we're headed in the right direction and I can optimistically say, you know, I think we're more than 90 percent there, but we should always strive for improvement. Good morning, sir, and thank you for the invitation to come before your committee to testify. We received in the mail from your office, sir, a series of questions. I believe there are ten questions; however, there wasn't a number 3, really, I think it boils down to nine questions. (Councilman Rizzo enters chambers.) COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Good morning, Councilman Rizzo.

Good morning, Commissioner. 5 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: So I thought it would be easier if I went through all ten questions and responded to them, and then if there are --

That would be very, very good. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: The very first question has to do with the relocation of the Special Victims Unit. And you should be aware that the Department then, in particular the Special Victims Unit, has been fully cooperating with the capital department for our city, and there's a representative here. They have been up to the Special Victims Unit, they have interviewed Captain Mooney. And by the way, sir, I should have introduced my two colleagues with me -- Captain Joe Mooney, who is the Commanding Officer of the Special Victims Unit; and, of course, Special Assistant Brad Richman.

Good morning. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: In any event, those folks from the Capital Office have been up.

The NRA is looking 6 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 for him, but it's all right. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I know. I see, actually, the NRA, I saw it in this morning's paper that Smith & Wesson settled with Boston so there's some hope yet. But in any event, they were up there to take measures. They've interviewed Captain Mooney regarding staffing levels, and I guess they need all of those numbers to kind of factor in what size of an office that will finally encompass the new Special Victims Unit. The one area of -- not concern, but of dispute, or the one area that's still hanging out there is this issue of collocation with the Children's Advocates Center. And we're all for that. As you're aware, I initiated the one up in New York in Brooklyn, and so we think that's a win-win, and so we're on board with that collocation.

So we had meetings with the different departments and the Police Department for those details. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, I can't speak for -- 7 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.) COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: We are fully committed towards that; others may have different opinions.

Well, I understand your commitment, but we have other departments and I figure that maybe we could have a meeting to explore -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

-- the feasibility of that thing coming about -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

-- with Health and the Department of Human Services. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah. I mean, I've had myself personal meetings with some folks from the Child Advocate Center. I've actually visited the one up on Chestnut Street, and so we are committed to that endeavor. And so I would be more than willing, as would Captain Mooney, to sit down and speak to HRA or any other agencies that are --

Well, we'll try to 8 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 expedited that through my office and we will see how we can do that. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: The second question --

Do you have costs, by the way? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Pardon?

An analysis of the costs -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: No. 12

-- in terms of the relocation of the Special Victims Unit. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: No. Our understanding, when I first met with these folks, that the -- there were two issues for us. One, we made the commitment as far as personnel. We would provide sufficient investigators. And the only other caveat is that I didn't want -- make sure that if it's -- that we did not want our investigators to get involved in issues such as counseling that they are not trained or qualified for. And I've been led to believe that the issues, the monetary issues, were being taken care 9 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 of by private agencies.

Okay. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Now, if that's not the case, you know, I don't have a penny in my budget, but --

Well, we just gave you $350,000 for a crossing guard. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, sir. And I appreciate that, and the citizens of Philadelphia appreciate that.

Okay. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: You inquired regarding the steps taken to improve the treatment of victims of sexual assault. As you're well aware, sir, there's been documented, particularly in the Inquirer, that our past history has not been the best in this area, for a whole variety of reasons. I don't agree that police officers were ill-intentioned; I just think they were not trained properly, and it may not have been a number-one priority. However, the area of treating victims with special sensitivity has been stressed and re-stressed over the last two years, and we've set 10 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 up a command structure within the Special Victims Unit to make sure that no matter what the private beliefs of an investigator are, is that those private beliefs in no way should impact on how a victim is treated. And we've set up a review process. The supervisor command oversight helps to ensure that the requirements that we've laid out are met. Also, what had happened in the past, if there was doubt regarding a victim, that victim may have been asked to submit to a polygraph. That is not the case anymore. If, in fact, there may arise a need for a polygraph, that can only be approved by Captain Mooney himself. And those are very, very rare. We also have a prompt response to complaints, which is reflective. If you look at the activity over the last years, there's been an 80 percent increase in search warrants obtained by investigators. The Special Victims Unit investigators have served almost 500 search warrants. This means that the investigators are responding immediately to crime scenes, gathering evidence, and arresting suspects in a timely 11 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 fashion. There has also been a significant increase in overtime expenditures, which also indicates an aura of aggressive and proper pursuit to leads and suspects. In the area of communications to complainants, every victim receives a letter from the Special Victims Unit offering the assistance of the Special Victims Unit officer. The letter also lists four different advocacy groups and their phone numbers, as well as the DC numbers for easy referral back should the complainant need it and also the Special Victims control number and the name of the investigator in each case. The Special Victims Unit recently initiated a quality control survey, whereby a victim assistance officer telephones victims and asks them to respond to a series of questions about their experiences with the police. Additionally, when possible, while it's not on a regular schedule, victims, as much as humanly possible -- sometimes you can't get in touch with them. You know, they make a complaint and then we never hear from them again and we can't locate them. But as much as possible, when we can locate 12 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 victims, we try to keep them updated on the status of the case and any recent developments. Regarding investigators -- and we're looking -- we look to see if we're getting complaints regarding investigators. And when we review that discipline process, no investigator has received any discipline over -- for the year 2000. We have had five kind of minor complaints that we have addressed, and those investigators have been counseled. But we also let victims know, If you're not satisfied with your investigators, we will happily reassign that to another investigator.

Is this protocol in writing? Is this protocol in writing? And is it a part of the overall training that takes place? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, we'll get to in a second, but go ahead as far as the protocol. CAPTAIN MOONEY: The protocol for investigating and handling sexual assault complaints in the Philadelphia Police Department really doesn't appear on one single document, like the Florida model policy that the Women's Law 13 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 Center gave me to review. Our policies -- there's crossovers with police radio. In terms of how the uniformed police officer are dispatched would be in a different document, say, than what would guide our investigators in the steps they're taking. So it's written down. Much of that Florida protocol, when I reviewed it, much of it is already in place here, and it is written down, but it's not written down in one document that says, This is the sexual assault protocol. It's written in different directives and in different memos that appear throughout the, you know, the police duty manuals and directives that all the policemen have.

Did you see any utility in perhaps bringing all of those different directives into one in terms of the Special Victims Unit and so on, so that an officer does not have to be going through many different places to look at what it is and how they should be able to proceed? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: If I could just jump in there. I mean, there are a variety of responses, even within the Philadelphia Police 14 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 Department, for example, to a sexual assault. Generally what happens is, the person or friends or relatives will call 9-1-1, and there's a response by uniformed personnel. We -- and that's contained in one document, how the initial responding officers treat victims of special assault or something like that. There are also within the district uniformed victims assistant officers. The pegboard that's prepared, 48 then goes up to the Special Victims Unit, and they have their own protocols that they have developed. And they have, you know, including a case management system, but increased supervision, the whole -- and I think we went over this the last time. For example, to unfound the case, it requires the signature and approval of two supervisors. And so we have a double-tier review process to make sure, as much as humanly possible, that cases are handled correctly. In addition, as you're well aware, Captain Mooney and his folks meet on a regular basis with the various women's groups that you will hear from today, reviewing case folders, 15 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 again, where these women's groups have the ability of requesting further investigation, another look-see at the case. And if there is a disagreement, that disagreement is brought to me as the final arbiter of what should take place. By the way, nothing has been brought to me yet, so somehow, if there are disagreements, then we have to work through them, but I'll leave that up to the Law Project and to some other folks to talk about later.

Go ahead, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: The question of number 3, there is no number 3, so we'll go right to number 4, which has to do with the training. If I might bring you back to about a year and a half ago, as you're well aware, the people that -- the folks that were assigned to Special Victims Unit were, by and large, police officers. There had been a belief, not just in this city, but I think in most cities across the country, that to be assigned to Special Victims or rape squads, it was preferable if you were female, if you came from a unit such as the juvenile age unit or some 16 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 community relations unit, as if somehow, by virtue of being a woman or being a part of those units, that gave evidence, prima facia evidence of necessary sensitivity. I think it's been documented that that's not the case. I think it's been documented by that series in the Inquirer that you're better off, no matter who they are, you're better off having people who are well-trained. And so we have been about the business of basically changing the operation there and putting in well-trained investigators and detective-investigators into the Special Victims Unit. In addition, there's been increased training across the board. So, for example, just this June, in the last six months, there have been over different seminar courses that a variety 19 of our officers and bosses have attended. In July 20 of this year, the Southern Police Institute brought a four-day sex crime course to the Philadelphia Police Department -- at the Department's invitation, by the way. We brought 'em in, we paid for them. And 23 of our investigators and a few sergeants and lieutenants 17 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 attended that course. There's also both formal and informal training going on on a regular basis. It's been incorporated -- for example, this week, I believe it's Thursday, we will be doing our year-end promotions, and I believe it's or of those 8 promotions will be detectives. Those detectives 9 now will go to the Academy. They get extensive 10 training, a full three weeks of training. In 11 addition, they, upon graduating from the Academy, 12 from the training courses, in three weeks will be 13 assigned to centralized units for further field 14 training. Some will go to the Special Victims 15 Unit, some will go to the Homicide Unit. They'll 16 spend a few weeks and they'll flip back to the 17 Homicide and the ones will go to Special Victims 18 and Special Victims will go to Homicide. 19 And what we're trying to do, you know, 20 as part of this training process is to have 21 detectives fully trained on how the entire 22 Detective Bureau operates within this department 23 so that they don't come out of the Academy, and 24 you send them, you know, to the East Police 25 Detectives, and that's where they spend the rest 18 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 of their life, and they know nothing more than the 24th, 25th, and 26th District. We want them to have a well-rounded overview of the entire detective operation, and then we'll, you know, at some later date, given the needs of the various detective divisions, they'll be reassigned.

Does the training encompass the attitudes that were brought into the system prior to all of this investigation? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Oh, yeah. I mean, I --

And the male-directed attitudes towards women that have been abused and so on and -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, I mean, let's be fair about this. Some of the more surprising statements that I read in the Inquirer were made by females, so I don't care who makes them. If they're --

It's a cultural aspect. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Who knows. (Unintelligible.) You can have your private 19 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 views. I can't do anything about your private views on gender, on race, but in most circumstances, we tolerate you acting out your private views, and so I make it a point myself to make sure that when they get promoted and they're at the Academy, I attend all training sessions -- not just for detectives but for sergeants and lieutenants and captains, letting them know what we're expecting from them. So as I say -- and any other opportunities that we have for training, and Captain Mooney is always browsing the literature, looking for other opportunities, we'll take advantage of them because -- and not just the Special Victims; in other units of the Department, there has been, I think, a greater push towards training the entire department as much as possible. And we've gotten quite a bit of additional funds in this area, both from grants and then from private contributions. The request -- you have an interesting request from demographics regarding the race, gender, and age and neighborhoods of the victims. And while I have nothing but respect and deference 20 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 for this committee, we have purposely not looked into that area right now because you may have seen a report by the ACLU last week regarding racial profiling in this city. That report --

Very disturbing, by the way. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Pardon?

Very disturbing. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, I'm more disturbed than you are because that report is -- I will address that in a separate press conference tomorrow. But let me just tell you something. That report is so far removed from what is going in this city, that the authors August to be ashamed of themselves, and we will address that report point by point tomorrow, but it's evidence that when you give supposedly responsible people information, particularly of a racial nature, that this information could be manipulated and, in the long run, exacerbate racial tensions in this city. And so, I would be glad, sir, to meet privately with you regarding this and my concerns. 21 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 It's not that I'm withholding information from the Council; I just need to have some concerns addressed as far as what is that information being used for. In light of what the ACLU did, I really have second thoughts to say anything of a racial nature in this city.

I will be glad to do that. But in essence, I'm trying to, and I believe the Council's trying to, get an understanding of to whom the assault happened to and the numbers and neighborhoods. Is it from the African-American community, what numbers in the Latino community, and what has been the historical, obviously, because we have gone through that as a result of open investigation. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Mm-hmm.

And the changes that we're bringing about through the process that we're going through. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Mm-hmm.

We understand, and I've gotten a lot of complaints in my office, phone calls. If something happens in Center City to a female and if she is Caucasian -- 22 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

-- we have all sorts of news, we have all sorts of incredible amount of staff power -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

-- put into play in order because we can't allow this to happen. Maybe it's because Center City where the focus of the tourists and we have -- this goes out, but it doesn't play well when the same type of assault occurs somewhere else in the City -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Mm-hmm.

-- in a poorer area. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

-- where Latinos are or African-American women are, and the same sort of attention is not given. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

And people begin to feel in the neighborhoods that the same type of an investigation is not taking place. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

That the resources are not being put into place, that, Oh, well, it's 23 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 another Latino that got it, you know, what's the problem? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, I can promise you, I can guarantee you as much as humanly possible that we treat all investigations equally in this city. Now, I may in fact agree with you, but I won't say I agree with you in regards to the attention. And so I think the questions regarding the attention, you would have been better off if you brought in, you know, Mr. Rosenthal or Mr. Hall, you know, or some people that run the media business in this town in regards to attention. I mean, I can't control that -- what's reported or what's carried on TV, Mr. Dave Davies. I mean, you can bring them in and find out why if it happens in Center City that it's a daily drumbeat in the newspapers and on television, but if it happens in the 25th District, you know, who cares?

That happens. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: By the way, it's not just in Philadelphia. I just did a book review for a paper up in New York regarding the 24 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 history of the NYPD and, of course, the reporters up in New York are -- you know, there are four other boroughs besides Manhattan, but they spend all of their time in Manhattan because -- and so that's what gets written about.

'Cause Manhattan is the city, right? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Exactly. Forget the Bronx and Brooklyn and all the rest of them.

Don't say that to my wife. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: The Special Victims staffing, you were looking for the numbers, and you mentioned that they are in a state of flux. And by the way, that's on purpose that we have not come up with any --

Well, numbers and composition. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah. But let me just give you as of today what they are. Now, by the way, they will increase next week or in a couple weeks, when that class comes out of the Academy. And they'll get goosed up for a short time, and then when those people get the training, 25 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 they'll move on. Suffice it to say -- and we'll get to it later -- there are extra people up there, there have been, and we'll beef them up again. Going back for those three years that we're doing the investigations on old cases, which I'll address shortly. But right now, there are -- there are two captains; there had been always been one. There are captains (Captain Mooney and his executive officer), lieutenants, sergeants, 4 corporals, 35 detectives, and 37 police officers, for a grand total of 89 assigned to the Special Victims Unit. And that's as of 12/12 of this year. Again, I --

What's the composition? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, what does that mean?

Well, you know, how many --

(Inaudible, off mic.) and the racial makeup. And who's on track 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 for leadership in that department?

And how many women are in -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Oh, I didn't understand.

How many Latinos and African-Americans and so on. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah, yeah.

And like Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds said -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.) COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah. You didn't mention -- you just mentioned the staffing levels; I thought you were talking about the numbers themselves, because there had been a complaint, probably a legitimate complaint, that the -- and this is the only complaint I saw -- was that the case law was inordinately high, the staffing levels were insufficient, and so we have put additional people in there. But more importantly, the people that we've put in there are detectives, as opposed to police officers. They are trained investigators. 27 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 But this is an ongoing process because, as you're well aware, there are labor implications. And so while there are still 37 police officers there, we cannot remove them just 'cause we want to replace them with a detective. And, you know, to be -- we would get an arbitration, and if we didn't -- if we couldn't show just cause, we'd lose that arbitration, and then we'd be forced to send them back with all the potential overtime that they would have made had they still been there.

Go ahead. The Councilwoman has a question.

A follow-up question on that point. Since at this hour you're not able to share with us the composition, let's look to the captains in the department and the composition there. What is the total number of captains currently in the Police Department? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I believe -- well, we're doing -- I think we're promoting 6 or 7 at the end of the week, which will bring us up to about 116. But I can get you all of those staffing levels. 28 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

I'm sorry? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I can get you all of those staffing levels for the entire Department.

Okay. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I don't have them in my head; I just happen to know on the captains 'cause we'll be up around 116.

Okay. How many of those are women, approximately? Five, ten -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Oh, no, probably a little bit more than ten.

And how many of those are minority -- African-American or Latino, approximately? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I have -- I have no idea. For example, this week, we're doing, I believe, it's seven captains, and we're quite fortunate. I didn't know you were going to get into this, but out of the seven captains this week, I believe -- out of the top seven, I believe four of them are African-American, including the person who's number one. Now, since you brought it up, we might 29 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 as well -- I didn't know you were going to get into this. We made a move last year. As the lieutenants list was finishing off, there was an ability to promote some of the lieutenants last December. And normally about would have been 7 promoted. 8 But when we looked at the list, it was 9 civil service list, we saw what you often see in 10 the civil service list, that African-Americans 11 were grouped in the middle of the list, and had we 12 done things as you normally do them, they would 13 have died on the list. And so we made a special 14 effort to make sure we got them in there and we 15 approved them. 16 And so we were able to promote indeed 17 that class nine African-Americans to lieutenants, 18 which allowed them to be eligible for the 19 capital's exam a few months ago. Out of the top 20 14 candidates on the captains list that just came out, 7 are African-Americans. That's a new high for this department. It's not perfect yet.

Sure. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: But those are the first -- including the number-one candidate, 30 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 who happens to work me. He's (unintelligible), he's a lawyer, he came out number one. And so this has not happened in the history of the Philadelphia Police Department.

Thank you for that. I will not belabor it because I've been alerted that you are on a clock, but we will revisit this at some later juncture. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah, absolutely.

With a particular look at women who are on track, who may then be trained to work in a Special Sex Crimes Unit, because there's such a direct correlation between those who are doing the training and those who are the victims. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, here -- it isn't quite that easy.

Okay. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: And there other things that come into play. For example, I was talking to Captain Mooney over the last couple of days preparatory to this hearing. You would be amazed at how many even women that get burnt out 31 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 of this type of work that just -- when you start to get into the area of child abuse and the whole business, there are not too many people that want to do it. And so if people don't want to do it, they're not going to force them into that, no 7 matter who they are and no matter how qualified they are. And we've started seeing some burnout, that they just can't take it, that they've got kids at home, and this is just -- it's too damaging to the psyche.

Too much.

Any attorney that has worked in the family court -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

-- will attest to that. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

It is a -- I worked in family court and my wife has worked in family court. And it is one of the most -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: It's tough.

-- emotionally draining areas of the law to work in. 32 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

And you can see that judges -- judges can't keep up their function in those courts. But go ahead. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah. On the -- you had requested a review of the old cases for 1998 and 1997 and back of the unfounded cases. In the year 1998, there were 191 cases reviewed; 34 were changed from unfounded to active. So out of those 191 that were labeled as unfounded, they were then rechanged to active. In 1999, 111 cases were reviewed.

I didn't get that, Commissioner Timoney. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I can supply these numbers to you.

Okay. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: These are the cases that were initially classified as unfounded.

Right. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: In 1998, 191 were reviewed; 34 changed from unfounded to active status. 33 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 In 1999, 111 cases were reviewed; were recoded and 19 were changed from unfounded to active. So for a total out of those 111, 29 were changed in some shape or fashion. What's important, I'm sure, is the -- which is the one that caused the great consternation and the series in the Inquirer, had to do with the 2701s and the 2625s. That's question number 8. And so in the 2701 review project, all of the 1995 cases -- as you're well aware, we went back five years and we went to the oldest years because there were concerns about the statute of limitations and we kind of worked our way forward. All of the cases of 1999 have been completed. The review is -- let me see here if I got this -- the total review for all of those years is 91 percent completed. There are still 175 cases remain active. There have been 78 cases cleared by arrest, 259 cases have been exceptionally cleared, and 388 have been labeled as unfounded cases.

The 259 -- what did 34 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 you say, it has been cleared? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I didn't hear you.

The 259 you said -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Exceptionally cleared.

Exceptionally cleared. What does that mean? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Can you give the definition. CAPTAIN MOONEY: What that means is that the person who is the accused in the case was not arrested or charged, for a variety of reasons; either the District Attorney didn't want to pursue it, the complainant, the victim did not want to pursue it, whatever. But it indicates that we solved the case, we know who did it, and that, you know, but there's just been no arrest of the person.

And so the 259 are cases in which you have arrested the perpetrator. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Have identified the -- CAPTAIN MOONEY: Have identified -- 35 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

Have identified the perpetrator. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah. CAPTAIN MOONEY: Yes. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: And many cases were cleared by arrest.

And the D.A. refused to follow up, follow through? CAPTAIN MOONEY: Not necessarily. In conference with the D.A., we confer with him regarding when a victim -- many times the victim doesn't want to proceed. So if the victim doesn't want to proceed --

How many of those -- CAPTAIN MOONEY: -- that would be --

How many of those 259 -- CAPTAIN MOONEY: I don't have that.

-- victims didn't want to proceed? And how many of those were the judgment of the D.A. -- CAPTAIN MOONEY: I don't have that information.

-- that there was 36 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 not sufficient evidence? CAPTAIN MOONEY: I don't have that information.

Do you have the numbers? CAPTAIN MOONEY: I don't know if we have them broke down. I guess we'd have to look at each individual case.

Frank. Frank Rizzo.

Yes, thank you. Do you have -- and I'm sure in any type of an investigation, not an investigation like this, when a person makes an accusation, a complaint, and it is an unfounded complaint, untrue, it's just someone making up a story that's not founded, how do you -- how do you deal with those? When a person just says -- changes their mind, are you able in some cases to see that it's just that they don't want to be bothered or they're just afraid to proceed? Or what happens when you legitimately get a person that's made an accusation just to be mean or revengeful; how do you deal with that? Is there anything you can do about that? Either of you. 37 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 CAPTAIN MOONEY: Is this a question for me?

The captain probably, since you're the first-line guy. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, I actually lay down the policy, and this really is a policy issue here. It really depends on the situation. People refuse to press charges for a variety of reasons. Maybe they just want it to go away. And so you try and encourage them as much as possible to go along with the program and to press charges but they don't. There are others that may be maliciously reported. And that runs the gamut. For example, we often -- a lot more than you would expect. You have a 14-year-old young lady who went out with her boyfriend and ran away from home for two days and then is afraid to go home and then comes home with a tall tale to tell the mother. In a case like that, when we uncover the truth, it's, you know, kind of no harm, no foul. There's been some loss of investigative resources, but you kind of understand that it's a young kid 38 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 who may be afraid, or who knows what? But then there are other areas, and this can work both ways. It can be where a man propositions a prostitute and then now makes an allegation of a robbery. If we investigated that and we find that it's a false report, we'll arrest him. Similarly, if you get a case where somebody is maliciously falsely reporting a rape, then we will present that to the D.A. to see if it's appropriate to make an arrest for falsely reporting an incident. But it's an extremely sensitive area and so you've got to go with great sensitivity, but it happens every once in a while.

Commissioner, you have other numbers that you were giving. The 2701 and -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah, the 2701 cases. All right, the review is 91 percent completed. Of the -- it's almost 2000 cases; it's one or two shy of 2000 cases. 175 remain active. 78 cases were cleared by arrest, 259 were exceptionally cleared. 39 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 And by the way, "exceptionally cleared" doesn't just mean that the person declined to prosecute or the D.A. didn't go forward. There's a whole host of reasons, including the guy who did it could be dead. You know, you've identified this guy Timoney and he's dead now, and that's considered an exceptionally cleared case.

We'd like to know what -- we'd like to find that out. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

I'd like to have that detail. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: There are 9 active arrest warrants out. We've identified 9 now. We got the arrest warrants; we just haven't been able to execute 'em for a variety of reasons. This is an interesting one. Twenty of the arrests occurred in the year where the case happened, but it wasn't properly recoded. In other words, it laid in the files as a 2701. They actually went out and did everything right and made an arrest, but for whatever reason, either because of laziness or sloppiness, did not go back into the files and recode it, for example, as a 40 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 rape cleared by arrest. So it runs the gamut but we can. . . And then the cases initially coded as 2625 for 1994 through 1999 are as follows. And do you want to explain what 2625 is? CAPTAIN MOONEY: To explain the 2625 code, in the code book, it says investigation, medical, and protection. It's kind of a catchall code for cases that do not have any clear criminality in them or any clear -- other type of behavior. We use them for third-party reports, we use them when the third party, say, makes a report that a father is sexually abusing a daughter but the daughter doesn't necessarily make the initial report. Well, if that gets reported to us initially, that may be coded 2625. If a person goes -- a victim goes to Jefferson Hospital and, unbeknownst to the police, gets a rape kit performed by Jefferson Hospital and leaves and never makes a report, and now Jefferson Hospital hands that rape kit over to us, we investigate that, we try to get a hold of that person and try to find out why they had that rape kit done, but we code that as a 2625, as a medical 41 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 investigation. If a young baby, say, is taken to -- comes back for a visit --

Captain Mooney and Commissioner, we have asked -- and I know that you're making an effort to try to achieve this -- for a complete report detailing all of these things in which the definitions are very clear in terms of even the exceptionally cleared ones and so on, so that we have a very good understanding of what the cases have been, what has transpired, what has been the results, how many have been open, how many have been closed, how many are currently under investigation, et cetera, so that we can have -- so that we can clear the deck and then we can move forward as we try to achieve the relocation of the unit, maybe the collocation of the different services and so on. So that we don't have to be continuously having to respond to the Inquirer, you know, bringing up some stories here and there. So that we can have it, and we can say all of the information that is needed has been given, is there, the groups are satisfied and everybody 42 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 else. So as we go -- and we have spoken about this -- a report in which all of these details are put down, given to us, so we can, as a Council, review it and publish that report. So we can say to the people of Philadelphia, Look, we had a problem. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right.

There are all of these stories out there, and we dealt with that problem openly and clearly, and this has been the results. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Mm-hmm.

We were over here; now we're over here. We have a staff, we have professional people working, we have a diverse group of people. And the Unit, although mal-administered prior to this, now we have professional people, with Captain Mooney and other folks in there, and this is a process that has been established. And Women Against Rape and all of the other things that have been put into place, so that citizens of the City and that the treatment 43 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 of Center City and the Barrio and people in the Barrio can feel that if something happens up there, you're going to go get the same type of resources and the same type of an investigation done. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: We will get you in graph form by the end of the week just a year by year, you know, here's the number, here's the disposition. Let me just say, I mean, we spend an awful lot of time on this, including the COMPSTAT. There are some cases that you actually don't know how to classify 'em, that they -- and I can't think offhand, but often, we're at COMPSTAT, it's a kind of a public debate, and you're not sure exactly what you have. It requires further investigation. And sometimes -- not all the time, but sometimes there are cases that just kind of defy being put in any specific category. And by the way, you can -- and I'm sure you will when the women's groups get up and testify, you can question them regarding what they're finding and get -- I mean, what you have the ability now is to query some independent 44 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 auditors to what's going on.

That's one of positive things that has happened through this process. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

I mean, that's a huge positive. I don't know of any other city that has been able to accomplish this sort of thing. So we have been -- but we've got to let people know, and I think the confidence in the system will increase as the people know that these things are happening. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah. Again, as the captain said, we were responding to the letter.

Yeah, but we had -- in the last hearing, we said a report -- we were promised a report by a certain date; we don't have the report. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: No. 23

And I can understand, you know, reasons why not. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, but excuse 45 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 me for interrupting, sir. We haven't finished it. It's 91 percent. There are still, whatever it is, 178 cases that remain active. We can give you a report on what we've done on 91 percent of the time and leave out the remaining 178 that still remain.

Like I said, Commissioner, I'm fully understanding. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

You and I get along. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Okay.

We can understand each other. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

And that's why I wrote the letter. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

In order to get those responses, because we had not gotten the report. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I mean, with all the things that -- and I'll take full blame here because I was the one that said, Well, we should be finished, you know, in six or seven months. 46 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 Well, it turns out, you know, once we started going back, and you can well imagine, we're trying to give every case a fair shake, a good investigation. You're chasing down leads that are going nowhere, you're trying to find complainants that may have moved. Even though we put the resources into it, it was a much more difficult process to than I even had envisioned. And then even when you reach the complainant, there was a (unintelligible) involved in this stuff for, you know, just leave me alone. And so the process was much more labor-intensive, sir, than I had imagined when I made those statements fully a year ago. I thought in six months, we should have cleared this up because we put the additional resources in. We're 91 percent cleared.

Councilman Clarke, you had a question? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Let me -- I'm sorry. Yes, sir?

Good morning. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Good morning, 47 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 sir.

Good morning, Cap. CAPTAIN MOONEY: Good morning.

I was recently at a meeting of a social service providers organization, and some disturbing information came up with respects to the levels of incest and sexual assault from live-in mates. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

And it talked about a particular section of my district being one of the highest rates within the City of Philadelphia, but they didn't have any information to substantiate that, and I'm wondering, in your categorization of the various assaults, are you categorizing them by police district, by Council district, by neighborhood? CAPTAIN MOONEY: We keep our statistics based upon the police district and division in terms of the, you know, the neighborhood. We don't bring it down any finer than that. You know, like, we don't say, like, Logan versus Olney or something like that; that would all be in the 35th District. That's the way we would keep 'em. 48 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

I'm familiar with my police districts. That would be -- you have that information? CAPTAIN MOONEY: What information is it that you need, Councilman?

Well, I was trying to get a breakdown per police district or division. I was just wondering if you were doing an analysis on the areas of reports, levels of incidents in those particular areas. CAPTAIN MOONEY: We -- I don't have that right here with me, but I can find that information.

Okay. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: And --

And has there been -- and I'm assuming that this is probably not job of the Police Department, so I may have to ask this question later on. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

Has there been an analysis in terms of any socioeconomic basis for why it happens more in other areas, assuming that the information that I received was correct? 49 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 Sometimes -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.) COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: What I can tell from you my readings of what comes across my desk, 'cause I get the investigator sheets, the lodging of the complaint, it seems to me -- and I may be wrong, but it seems to me that we get them as third-party referrals from Human Services? CAPTAIN MOONEY: Right, from Human Services. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: And a lot of times, it wouldn't even be incest in the general sense that we think of incest, where it's a blood relative, but it may be like a live-in boyfriend.

Right, right. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: That's what seems to me, that it's predominant is live-in boyfriend or a visitor coming into the woman's apartment, and she goes out and then he sexually abuses the child. That's what I keep seeing.

Okay. And -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: But we usually get those as referrals from Human Resources. 50 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

So the information, the detailed information, with respects to those cases probably would lie with the Department of Human Services, more so than the Police Department. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: What happens is, if we get 'em, we'll have 'em. What I'm saying, sir, is that --

But the analysis aren't -- okay. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: It's very, very rare where we'll have a mother and a seven-year-old or eight-year-old kid show up in a district and say, you know, the boyfriend -- we'll get that as a result of some kind of a consultation with the Human Resource folks or Health Department, where they may have gone for a check for syphilis, or God knows what.

Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: And that's how it comes to us, through a third-party referral. That's how I see it come across my desk at least.

All right. Do you have a sense of during the process of 51 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 investigation by a DHS worker or by some other social service workers, at what point are they required to, or are they in fact required to notify the Police Department if there's any thought that there could potentially be some problems associated with that? Is it first visit or -- CAPTAIN MOONEY: Well, they're required to notify us in all cases, sexual. Anytime they get a report of a sexual abuse of a child, they're required to notify us.

Upon reported or upon verification? CAPTAIN MOONEY: Not necessarily, no, not necessarily verified. If they get a third -- if they get a report from a sibling, say --

Mm-hmm. CAPTAIN MOONEY: -- that, you know, the other sibling is being sexually abused --

Mm-hmm. CAPTAIN MOONEY: -- they'll report that to us.

Immediately? CAPTAIN MOONEY: Yeah. 52 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

Okay, all right, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I have got a chart here which we could share with you. You had requested all of the data for 2000, a year-to-date, and we have it broken down in a series, you know, from rape on, all the way down to the 3100 series. There are a little over 5,000 cases. My sense is that probably by the end of the year, it will probably be up around 52, 5400 cases. But as of December 6th, on the 200 series, which are the rapes, there have been 1,013, and then it goes on and so on and so forth. However, let me just give you kind of a point of reference. We know for a fact that, you know, you'll see again this year in Philadelphia, as you did see last year, a significant increase in reported rapes, and my sense is that the reporting here is better than ever, that we've captured more data than we've ever captured before.

Which means there's an increase in rapes. 53 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I don't think it's an increase.

In reporting, I understand. But it's mainly that's it's been reported at this point. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: But it's even more than that, because, you know, I'm not going to disparage other police departments, but I can tell you that we are taking everything and anything. And let me just give you one, and you may be able to use this as a point of reference. This year, for argument's sake, in Philadelphia, there will be 1,050 rapes that will be reported, in a city of about 1.5 million. Compare that to up in New York, compare it to Manhattan. In Manhattan, there are about 1.5 million people, hours a day, night life, 19 you've got all sorts of neighborhoods, you've got 20 all sorts of clubs going on, 6 to 8 million people 21 come in on a daily basis to work, restaurants, 22 nightclubs, 33 million tourists a year come in and 23 spend most of their time in Manhattan. You've got 24 all of this activity, nightclubs 24 hours a day. We only report about 1,050 rapes. How 54 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 many rapes do you think will be reported in Manhattan this year? Given all of the activity that's going on up there, date rape activity, all of --

500. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Huh?

500. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: About 250. You know, so it looked like, when you look at the -- when the final UCR statistics come out next April or May, it will look like that Philadelphia is off the chart, that -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)

-- done over the last two years. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Not too many cities have, sir.

Okay. They haven't done what we've done, we've gone through this investigative process, you have started to reform and asked for real data instead of -- I think if we had left the old system in place, we would be -- we'd be basically reporting probably the same 55 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 as New York. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

If the old system was still in place. So -- but, you know, you said you had 78 arrests. How many of those were rapes or attempted rapes and so on? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Captain Mooney will. . . CAPTAIN MOONEY: It's 39 for rape or attempted rape.

And the others are -- 39? CAPTAIN MOONEY: Yeah.

And the others were what, attempted rape, assault? CAPTAIN MOONEY: No, it was 39 for rape or attempt to rape.

Right. CAPTAIN MOONEY: The other arrests run the gamut through sexual assaults, various kind of sexual assaults, involuntary deviant sexual intercourse, corrupting the morals of a minor, public indecency. That's where the bulk of them 56 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 lie. The rest they arrest.

And the 259 exceptionally cleared, do you have a breakdown, though, of those also along rapes, sexual assaults, and so on? CAPTAIN MOONEY: Yes. And then the vast majority of them are, again, in the sexual assault category. And in terms of rapes, it was -- just let me go do the math here real quick.

Of those that remain, Commissioner, how many of those are projected as rapes and so on? CAPTAIN MOONEY: That --

Or are classified as -- CAPTAIN MOONEY: Of the actives? I -- again, if you -- I had my calculator here, I'd be all right. About 370 are rapes, or attempt rapes, in that category are active.

Mm-hmm. CAPTAIN MOONEY: And then, again, there's a breakdown of the various sexual assaults. 57 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

You're going to give us that information? CAPTAIN MOONEY: I have 'em here. It's (unintelligible).

Yeah, yeah. CAPTAIN MOONEY: But I didn't add 'em together.

Councilman Rizzo?

Thank you. Captain, so I understand, and I think it's important that everyone understand what your unit's charged with, the entire responsibility. It's obvious that there are certain responsibilities, but could you just take a second, so I understand. The Special Victims Unit, the entire environment, what exactly do you do other than the things that we mentioned here today? A 9-1-1 call comes in and there's a report of a rape, the uniformed people immediately draw your people in. Could you just take a second and go beyond and how the uniformed police, police radio, know when to draw you into an incident? CAPTAIN MOONEY: If 911 calls me and 58 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 the victim states that they're raped, a uniformed police officer responds immediately and takes a report from the victim as to the nature of what happened to them. If the victim indicates that they were raped, they are taken to either Jefferson or Episcopal Hospital, depending on their location in the City when they make the report. If it's a crime of another nature, say, an indecent exposure or something, they may be brought directly to the Special Victims Unit. But in the case of a rape, they're taken to either Jefferson or Episcopal Hospital. At that point, the uniformed officer will notify Special Victims Unit by telephone. If we endeavor to send an investigator out to either -- right directly to the hospital and/or to the crime scene, if possible, if -- we are not able to do that sometimes because of other pressing things. The victim's there at the hospital, is examined. The uniformed officer stays with them the whole time, and if the (unintelligible) investigator does not get down there before that 59 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 process is over, the victim's brought up to the Special Victims Unit and an investigator's assigned to the case, and they interview the victim, and we proceed from there.

But there is -- there is many instances where your people, beyond what you've just described, are drawn into an investigation. Are there some things that aren't obvious to us here today that your unit does, that we may not know about? CAPTAIN MOONEY: Well, we -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Before he explains, let me just give you the workload activity for this year.

That's -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah. For example, about one-fifth of the workload is rapes. There area about 1,000 rapes, but there are over 5,000 cases that he investigates. CAPTAIN MOONEY: Right. And then it -- and it runs the gamut. I mean, even when we've investigated robberies, aggravated assaults many times because there's maybe a sexual component involved in that -- 60 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

Councilman Clarke said, you know, some incest aspects and so on. CAPTAIN MOONEY: All sexual -- we investigate all sexual crimes, regardless of whether they're incest or stranger or -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: For example, if some guy went up and robbed a woman and then grabbed her and felt her up, he would do the investigation then, even though, on the priority list of crimes, the top crime would be robbery, but because of the sexual abuse component of it, the Special Victims Unit has it. CAPTAIN MOONEY: It would show as a robbery on the stats, but the sexual end of it may not be as obvious when you look at the numbers, but there's a sexual component to the robbery. We also handle physical abuse of children under the age of 18 that's committed by caretakers which is also a good portion of our workload and is responsible for a lot of our aggravated assaults and simple assaults that you'll see in the statistics here.

Mr. Chairman, would you prefer I wait? I have a question about 61 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 facility that they work with.

Yeah. I want him to finish his testimony and --

Okay.

Commissioner? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, sir.

The coding aspect. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Again, the question, number 10, has to do with the coding manual and I thought I'd never see the day, but we finally finished it. This was a laborious task, we had the women's groups involved to try and make it more simple. We finally signed off in about a week or two ago, and it's in the hands of Commissioner Brennan, who's trying to incorporate it into his system 'cause he's charged with --

So what happens to 2701, what happens to 2625? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, they're still there.

They're still there, right? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah. But the system, the coding book, I mean, Einstein couldn't 62 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 have figured it out. He may have figured it out, but it's so complex, and for the life of me, I don't know why it existed, but it does exist and we've tried to clean it up and simplify with, I mean, a lot of time and effort. And different sets of eyes have looked over this to try and make sense out of it and --

And everything under 2625 and 2701, they remain under investigation and they're ongoing? CAPTAIN MOONEY: Yes, yeah. You know, we get many, many cases, many cases, that initially come into our unit that do not lend themselves to a clear-cut crime coding. You know, women come in sometimes and say they were out drinking and they passed out and they were in a different house than they thought they were; they thought they were going home and they woke up in somebody's house. They don't know that anything happened to them, but they want us to investigate it, and we do investigate, but it we don't put a crime classification on that, an investigation like that, until we determine that there's actually been a crime committed. And that's the 63 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 reason for those codes.

And the unfounded category, what are we doing with that? CAPTAIN MOONEY: Well, again, there are unfounded cases. There always will be. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: People --

Yeah, but we were putting a lot of cases in the unfounded category. CAPTAIN MOONEY: Well, this year, there's -- 7 percent of our reported rapes are unfounded. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah. CAPTAIN MOONEY: 7 percent. And the national average is 6 or 7. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: You know, part of the problem, we would be betwixt and be -- and quite literally getting yanked around left and right, and so 2701, for example, as best as I can tell, was kind of used as kind of a catch basis.

A catchall. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: But the problem when you start to doing it, there is also -- you're putting things in there that rightfully didn't belong there, that they warrant -- it 64 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 wasn't an investigation person; it was hospital case. By the way, if this was New York, everything is 2701; it's an investigated person, and then it's determined later on, once the investigation is conducted, what crime category. We have been trying to force ourselves into picking a category, and even then, it's extraordinarily difficult. When we made the decision.

Carol has helped you focus that -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Absolutely, absolutely. But by virtue of the fact -- and just think about this for a second. By virtue of the fact that we were going to take all comers and classify whatever the person said, you know, and if the person said, "I just drove a space ship from Mars and I was raped," fine, we're going to categorize it as a rape, until we do the investigation. By virtue of the fact that you're taking more in, you're taking more also in a case that may not have happened, you wind up getting 65 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 higher founded's. Well, when we had the higher founded's, then we were criticized, and I think the quote in the Inquirer was, Oh, Timoney found a new way to hide 'em. We're not trying to hide anything; we're trying to figure it out. This is extraordinarily difficult. And what I would suggest, again, is to speak to the outside monitors, the women's groups, because they find the same experience that we find, that our investigators find. It's not often as clear-cut as people would like to make it. Sometimes -- obviously, sometimes it is, and there are no excuses, but an awful lot of times, man, it is just -- it is extraordinarily difficult to figure out what happened -- if, in fact, anything happened.

So the coding manual's almost finished or finished? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: It's finished. I signed off about two weeks ago. It's now -- Commissioner Brennan's got it and he is now integrating it into his -- with his computer system.

Could we get a copy 66 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 of it? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: You can have a hundred copies of it.

No, just one. Councilwoman?

A follow-up question. Commissioner, would it be fair to say that the complexity of the coding book and the fact that it was so cumbersome may have contributed to the manner in which sex crimes were reported or under-reported or not reported? And this was hindsight talking now. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah. I'm not going to make any -- it certainly -- truth, it certainly didn't help. And then with the officers all untrained, it didn't help. You know, I can speak, coming from New York, and there's no such crime manual up there. It's pretty simple. There are two classifications: You've got the crimes code, penal law, that you charge somebody with; and then you've got the UCR. And often, they don't quite match up. 67 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 That's their -- there are certain -- there's been certain reforms to the coding manual. However, there are other reforms that can only come through the Justice Department when it comes to the UCR coding. Because the one great area on crime coding is the UCR, which drives everything else. And, for example, in the area of aggravated assault and what constitutes an aggravated assault, there has been a committee that's been headed up with former Chief Patrick Fitzsimons from Seattle, who's been studying this issue for years, and they can't make a decision on what 14 constitutes aggravated assault. 15

The butterfly ballot is aggravated assault. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Pardon?

The butterfly ballot is aggravated assault. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Only to the conscience.

Any other questions? Councilman Rizzo? 68 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

Commissioner, there was some criticism about the facility up at the armory. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right.

Are we any -- where are we with -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: That was the very first question.

I apologize. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right. No, no. 12 And there are people here from the Capital Office; they've been up to visit Captain Mooney, they've taken measurements, the size of the staff, what's the mission, what's the caseload. I guess they're trying to figure out the square footage, and they are much more expert at that, and I think they can give you a status of where we are in that. Let me -- and this is in no way to impinge on this gentleman behind me. But I was telling the story to Joe Mooney yesterday, when I was a rookie cop, I was a trainee -- I became a rookie cop in 1969 in the (unintelligible) area, and so we were parked, having a sandwich and coffee. At 169th Street and Jerome Avenue, across 69 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 from the Post Office, and the old-time cop was (unintelligible), and he says, See that Timoney? That's where the new precinct's going, it will be up there next year. That was in 1969. I opened that precinct in 1994 as the four-star chief of the department. It only took years. 9 (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I'm sure they're 11 a lot better off in Philadelphia. 12

I used to teach a 13 night class at 169th Street. 14

Just to finish, I 15 visited -- and I have to get used to this -- 16 police headquarters? 17 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, sir. 18

And that building 19 there in itself isn't a bowl of cherries; I don't 20 know how you do what you do with the space that 21 you have, and I keep looking at that big building 22 across the street that's got the sale sign on it. 23 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right. 24

And saying to 25 myself, I just wish we could afford that. 70 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah. I was a voice in the wilderness. I was offering that whole location up for the new stadium, but no -- there were no takers.

Don't talk stadiums here, please, okay? We've been through that, done that. (Laughter.)

Commissioner, the report, can we expect it? Give me a date. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Joe?

Friday? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, we'll get -- yeah, we'll get you the notes of what we've done today, recognizing there are still --

But the overall report, you know, you're working on it, you're 91 percent finished? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, sir. So we'll give you the 91 percent report come Friday (unintelligible) where they are, including this --

And then the overall report a couple of weeks later or -- CAPTAIN MOONEY: Yeah. 71 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I guess so, yeah.

Timoney? Captain, right? CAPTAIN MOONEY: Yes, sir?

Around -- for Three Kings Day, a present. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: On January 6th, if I remember right.

That's right, that's January 6th. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: We'll (unintelligible), then we'll come over and give it to you.

Definitely. Anywhere close to that? Can we expect it, you know, during the beginning of the year or very soon after that? CAPTAIN MOONEY: The completion of the review, you mean?

Yeah, right. CAPTAIN MOONEY: Yeah, yes, sir. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Mm-hmm. 72 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah, that will be completed by then, yeah.

Okay. Commissioner, I appreciate your attendance as always. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: All right.

And we'll see you in the new stadium when the Yankees and the Mets come to play. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Very good. Thank you, sir.

Thank you. Carol? Carol Johnson, Chris Kirchner Carol Tracy.

I think I'm just going to testify.

What?

I think I'm testifying alone on behalf of --

Can we hear from Public Property first, Carol, so that we can react, okay? It's very brief. It's -- why don't we do that. It's about whether we can relocate the unit or not and I'd rather you get that information on the record so that. . . 73 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 Richard Tustin, yes, sir. Identify yourself for the record.

My name is Richard Tustin, and I'm the Acting Director for the City's Capital Program Office. We were only notified yesterday of the hearing today.

You're acquainted with the Victims Unit, where it's located?

Yes, sir, I am.

Have you visited it?

Yes, I did, several years ago, Councilman.

When?

Yes, I did visit it, several years ago.

Several years ago.

Yes, sir.

Was it bad when you visited it several years ago?

Several years ago, it was not in the condition it is today.

It is worse.

It is worse today, yes. 74 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

It is very, very bad.

I don't know whether I can qualify it that way, Councilman, but --

I can, I've been there. It is a slum. Well, a "slum" may be, actually, too kind a word to describe it. It is bad. Working conditions are not conducive to -- I mean, the type of work that gets done there is depressing as it is.

Mm-hmm.

You should not be working in a depressive environment when the work that you do is depressing and emotionally draining. And I think we're subjecting a lot of our people to that -- to that type of situation. What I'd like to find out from you, just to make it much easier, is, what are we contemplating? We -- I think the groups that have testified, the Police Department, would like to relocate the Special Victims Unit. The issue is if the Administration looking to relocate the Special Victims Unit. And if not, why not? And if we are, how much is it going to take to 75 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 relocate it, where it's going to be relocated to? Annotate, as Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds-Brown whispers me to.

Thank you, Councilman.

Make it easier for you to testify today.

What I thought, if it would be okay with both yourself, is I did prepare a very, very brief statement as to what we are and what we do, and maybe it will explain our role in the process.

I think we -- we -- I don't -- we don't need an explanation on what the Capital Program is and what you do and so on.

Okay.

Okay? We need -- the Special Victims Unit needs extensive reworking. Let's compare the Special Victims Unit to Vets Stadium. Vets Stadium is nonfunctional as a sporting facility. We, the City, decided to do something about Vets Stadium: we decided these millionaires should not play in these facilities because they were very bad. Pipes were leaking, 76 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 the walls were crumbling, lighting didn't function, the toilets and the bathrooms were in disrepair. So I think the Special Victims Unit was located -- is in the same condition.

We agree.

We agree, then?

Yes, sir.

Then let's find for the solution that we found for the stadium issue. Let's begin looking as to how much money it is that we need to spend in order to relocate this, in order to make it a facility where civilized activity can take place.

I agree, Councilman, and to that end --

You're agreeing with me constantly. I want -- I want --

To -- to --

I want a reaction to it.

To that end, our office has been meeting with Commissioner Timoney and the Police Department over the last two months, 77 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 reviewing what their needs are, the condition of their existing space, looking at their expansion, and also how they use their existing space. They're -- and they are nowhere the same as a typical office type of environment, where we plan every day, whether it be the Municipal Service Building or One Parkway Building or City Hall. They do have unique needs that we have now been able to quantify, and we know -- we feel we know much better the kind of new space they should be in to better do their job. We are in the process -- we have a draft report that we have put together that we are prepared to share with the City's Space Allocation Committee. That Space Allocation Committee consists of members of Finance, the Managing Director's Office, the Department of Public Property, and the Law Department. And our recommendations to them -- we'll work with the Department of Public Property, for instance, to try to identify possible new locations to where that can be moved to, somewhere that's more centrally located, easier to get to, less intimidating than the existing space is. We'll 78 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 work with the Law Department to help craft a new lease agreement for a new space so that we make sure within that lease agreement, we get the kind of fit-out and the improvements we need to make the new space.

When?

Well, right now, we're in the process of submitting the preliminary to the Space Allocation Committee for their review, and we --

Is a new Special Victims Unit location included in that?

Yes, it is. That report will be submitted to the Space Allocation Committee. They will use -- and at the same time, we'll submit that to the Police Department for their review, since they have not had an opportunity to review the draft report yet. We will get comments back from them and then we will finalize the report, which we will certainly share with City Council. In that report, in addition to identifying the problems with their existing space, we will make recommendations as to what 79 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 should be in their new space as well as how many squire feet they need in order to occupy the space, any special services they would need, whether they be isolated waiting rooms that they don't have now, whether they be isolated holding areas for offenders that they don't have now, whether it be a locker room added to the place.

I understand. We want a timeline.

Yes.

I want to be able to say -- and I think the people that are here that are interested would like to see this done in a very expeditious timeframe. So what I would like to get from you today is the timeline. And if you cannot give me that, when are you going to be able to give me that within a very short period of time?

I should be able to get back to you by the end of the week with a definite date and time that that report will be available. At this point in time --

Will that report have a specific date upon which you are moving 80 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 towards the relocation of the Special Victims Unit?

Yes, sir, it will.

And will it have a date as to when you finalize the lease and the move?

It will contain our recommendations as to when those dates should be. The Law Department needs to be involved in actually preparing those leases, the Finance Department needs to be involved in actually identifying the funds for those leases, but we will, within our report, make the recommendations as to when this should occur, and it will be sooner rather than later.

And then once you make the report and you say you will have that report in by the end of the week --

No, the actual report -- I'm sorry, I didn't say that.

Okay.

We should have the report -- the draft report will be ready by the end of the week. After it's reviewed by the Space 81 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 Allocation Committee and the Police Department and we finalize any changes that they would like, we should have the report done within 30 days after that date. So no later than the end of January, a final report should be done, completed, with all of our recommendations. And at that point, a decision will have to be made as to how quickly those recommendations can be implemented.

When will the decision be made on your recommendation?

I can't --

Because so far, you're talking about looking at it and then recommending.

Yes, sir.

What we want is, one, is the recommendation is done, when is the decision made.

The decision needs to be made by the Finance Department because they'll have to provide the funding to implement it. I can tell you that the present lease that they have right now is a year-to-year lease, and it is up, I believe, August the 1st. 82 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 So if we're not going to renew the lease -- and that's the Department of Public Department and Finance's decision -- we would have to be out of that space, into a new space prior to August the 1st.

Of 2001.

At the latest.

Prior to August 1st, you're going to be out of that space? It's a long time.

Our existing lease -- our existing lease only runs through August the 1st, where they are right now. So unless a decision is not made, we would either have to renew that lease for another year or vacate the space. Our recommendation would be to vacate the space and go somewhere else that better suits their needs.

And you -- that's a long time.

Um --

We've been talking about this now for over a few years, and we've had these hearings going on right now for close to a year, and this is not the first request we've made 83 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 about this. We wanted it last year, to be able to start moving into this. It is not what we're looking for, August 1st.

It's very unfortunate, but our office was only informed of this request even this past July, and then we acted as quickly as we could to prepare the interviews with the Police Department, to develop an assessment study of the space. I can guarantee that we will do everything we can do from our office to expedite not only the report but our recommendations, as I just said, no 13 later than the end of January, and work with Finance, Law, and Public Property to plan new space and to relocate this unit as quickly as possible. I was just trying to provide August 1st as a date upon which the present lease terminates. So it has to be no later than --

We don't want to be in the same situation of Commissioner Timoney and his first job in 1969 and going on, and maybe in the year 2020, you know, this thing happening. August 1st is a long time. We've been at this now for a very long time. I would like to 84 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 bring this committee hearing to a conclusion sometime within my existence, and I would like to wrap it up, and that's one of the parts of wrapping it up. August 1st is -- I suggest you go back and you tell the folks that this needs to be expedited. It is not -- it is not a priority that can be ignored. Children, women go through this building. When they go through that building, they already have been subjected to an incredible amount of pain; they should not be subjected to any more by the very environment that they're in. So I suggest that, one, you keep this Chair informed so that I can keep the committee informed and the Council. And you give me a timeline that is conducive to ending this thing much before August 1st. All right? Councilwoman?

Good afternoon, Mr. Tustin.

Good afternoon.

Are you new to the Capital Program Office? How long have you been there? 85 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

I've been with the Capital Program Office since its creation, three years ago I've only been in this position since March, as Acting Director.

How many staff persons make up the Capital Program Office?

We have a total of 78 staff at this moment.

78?

78. We -- our primary purpose is to help the Finance Department manage the Capital Budget for the City of Philadelphia -- for all City departments and agencies -- as well as help 13 City agencies actually manage their capital projects, which would be the design and construction of either renovations or new facilities. We have approximately 300 active projects we're working on right now.

300?

Yes, ma'am.

How are priorities determined with the existing projects? How are 86 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 priorities determined?

We have -- we're broken down into four project teams to handle the 5 agencies that we work for. One of those project 6 teams, which is our facilities teams, handles 7 these specific type of requests. 8

Mm-hmm. 9

Both Harold Aponte, who is 10 the project director of that team, and myself are 11 members of the Space Allocation Committee, and 12 they're the ones that give us our priorities as to 13 which projects are the most important and which ones we should work on sooner rather than later. So we work with that agency, with that committee to develop the priorities of projects that we should work on. As I stated earlier, we were informed of this particular project in the summer, you know, in August, and we started our interview process in September, and that process includes looking at the existing lease agreement, doing a full analysis of their existing condition, surveying that, photographing that, taking a full list of the staff that occupy the space, to try to 87 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 determine the type of space they really should be in to do their job right.

Is there a project team leader?

Yes, there is. His name Harold Aponte, and he is our project team leader for this project.

And so then it's his responsibility to keep -- to be in regular contact with the departments that you've mentioned that play a role in this particular project; that is, the Finance Department, the Law Department, and Budget.

Yes, Councilwoman.

I'm trying -- I'm also trying to get an understanding. August 1 does seem like --- effectively, it become a year, 12 months, does it not, from the August we requested it to the August --

It does, it does. And I just would like to state again, that's the term of the present lease. In other words, the leases run from year to year, and the City is committed on a yearly basis for that lease. We have to give 88 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 notice of our intent to leave 90 days prior to that, which, I believe, would be May the 1st. So -- but we can stay there no later than August the 1st. So our intention is to complete the report, get everybody so sign off and approve it so that -- and get -- actually have the Finance Department hopefully identify the funds that we need to do the relocation and the fit-out of the space, have a lease drafted -- if it is for a lease space, have a lease drafted with the new owner of the facility so that we can move into that space.

Mm-hmm.

And then develop whatever plans we have to so that they can, in fact, construct the space.

Occupy the space.

That's right.

And you said that your preliminary recommendation is that the current space is absolutely deplorable. I can only imagine.

Right. 89 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

And how strong -- what is the strength of a recommendation coming from the Capital Program Office when other departments have to sign off? Where does it stack up?

I believe we hold an equal level of responsibility within the Space Allocation Committee. The rest of the group of the Space Allocation Committee look for us and our recommendation on what should be done once we make that recommendation. Most of the times that recommendation is implemented.

Mm-hmm.

But they -- again, they have to go back and find the funds available. Public Property has to find what properties are available, since they're responsible for leasing within the City. And the Law Department then has to have somebody starting to write up a lease agreement with whoever --

So is that to suggest that given those three reasons you've just mentioned, any one of them could be a hurdle for the decline or the -- the mood that the 90 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 recommendation would not be implemented?

They could be. In the past, they have not been, but they could be.

What is the Department's position on the acceptance of outside help, if you will? Because there may be 501(c.)(3)'s who live and breathe this issue every day, who may have either access or information on potential areas of funding that could move this idea along much more quickly.

I'm sure the Finance Department would be more than open to any suggestions of outside funding, or any type of funding at all, for this project. So I'm sure they'd be open for any suggestions at all and would be willing to do whatever research is needed to find, you know, funding for the project.

And you say Public Property responsible for finding the space?

Yes. Public Property --

After the recommendation has been accepted?

Yes. Public Property is responsible for going out and finding out what 91 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 property is available for lease throughout the City. I know they work on a regular basis with outside real estate firms so that they do have many avenues to -- to -- many resources for identifying space that may be available. Once we -- once they develop a list of available space, then our office would go back and look at that to make sure this space meets the program requirements, so that it adequately satisfies the needs of the Police Department. But that is a very quick process; it does not take long.

I'm well aware, but it all boils down to priority. And to the extent that other departments agree with you that this is a priority, it becomes a matter of persuading other departments to believe -- I mean, you listen to what people say, but then you look at what they do, and it's in what they do that determines level of priority. So I have to concur with the Chairman of this committee that August is a long time.

Mm-hmm.

And we would look 92 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 to you, we will burden you with the responsibility to go to your colleagues and comrades in those other departments and help them understand that this has to be bumped up on the priority list. Because all of those departments will be coming back to us in the early part of next year and all those questions will be raised again. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman?

Frank?

Mr. Tustin, we have a space at the Arsenal. Obviously, that location was chosen because of its geographic location. Wouldn't it be to our advantage to look at the existing space, develop a long-term relationship there, and make the improvements to that site? I mean, you're there; why don't we remodel it, fix it up unless, and make it work? Unless the location is so undesirable, that it won't work.

The location is undesirable, Frank.

Why is it the location -- I have not heard that the location is undesirable. 93 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

Councilman, that's an excellent question.

Frank, you will hear from the groups that are involved in the process of helping victims in this situation.

And I appreciate that input, but I haven't heard the Police Department say that geographically the location is undesirable. It may be, but I just need to hear from you folks that help make those decisions on the location and why a refit of the location and a total make-over wouldn't work?

One of the things that we --

Like the Vet, Frank.

Well, you were in favor of that.

No, no, I'm not in favor of spending City money.

Will you let him answer my question, please.

One of the things we've uncovered when we first went in to do our initial 94 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 interviews and survey the space is that for the number of officers that are there today -- not what was there three years ago -- that the space just isn't large enough. So the building that they're in and the floor that they're on is not large enough to house them, even if we were to make it over, so we need additional space over and above what they have right now.

Is the additional space at that location available to expand?

Not at that building, Councilman, it isn't. The other problems -- and I think Councilman Ortiz already knows -- is the fact that it is a difficult location to get to from public transportation, you know, if in fact people are coming that way. And it's also in an area that is somewhat intimidating. There are walls around the Frankford Arsenal area, there's only a few points of entrance into that complex, you know, through security gates. And that in itself makes it a little bit not --

I wanted to hear that because then all you're -- you're basically 95 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 going to make me feel comfortable when you're concurring with the folks that are here to testify.

Yes.

So if it's not a desirable location, that's perfect.

Okay.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Carol Tracy. (Witnesses come forward.)

Mr. Tustin, could you stay so that you can hear?

Sure.

Okay, thank you. (Witnesses come forward.)

Good morning.

Good morning.

Carol Johnson, from Women Organized Against Rape, and Chris Kirchner, from the Philadelphia Children's Alliance. We're here to answer questions.

Welcome once again.

Thank you. 96 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

We're making progress, though.

We're moving there.

Thank you for inviting us to appear and to provide testimony to the Public Safety Committee this morning.

And let me say again for the record that -- thank you for, really, the commitment to see this change really come through. It was an incredible, arduous task. I mean, we were looking at one of the paramilitary institutions, really, that is so resistant to change. And through this process, we have been able to begin the process of that, and not only that, but accomplish a great deal. The fact that you are involved in the overall development and overseeing and monitoring of this thing is almost revolutionary.

Let's hope. I'm Carol Tracy, the Executive Director of the Law Project, and I'm speaking today on behalf of the Women's Law Project and my colleagues from Women Against Rape, the Support Center for Child Advocates, the Philadelphia 97 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 Children's Alliance, and the Penn Women's Center. And, as I said, representatives from these organizations are here this morning and available for questions. Of primary importance are the actions being taken by the Department to reinvestigate the miscoded cases and to prevent the recurrence of miscoding and mishandling. I'd like to begin by commending the Department for its handling of the reinvestigation. It's not easy to air dirty laundry. When we gathered here last year, the Commissioner promised an investigation of the cases that were placed in the noncriminal categories, but indicated that he did not think that reinvestigation would uncover many rapes. In fact, as you have learned, many rapes and many other serious sex crimes were not properly classified and, therefore, not investigated. Admitting the truth about the scandalous record in the face of such public scrutiny -- not only the scrutiny from this body but national scrutiny -- took some courage, and I think it should be noted. 98 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 I think it's also important to note that the increase in reported rapes suggests that there is a regaining of confidence by the public in this Department. There's nothing that can be done to provide complete justice to the victims whose cases were miscoded and mishandled. Cases were miscoded for many years, but only cases miscoded in the past five years had been reviewed and reinvestigated. Cases more than five years old remain untouched. The cases from the past five years that the Department has reviewed and reinvestigated, we've learned today that only 78 arrests have been made. The passage of time has prevented many of these cases from being resolved. And our hope is that the work that we are currently doing will prevent such occurrence in the future. The relocation of the Special Victims Unit and the collocation of services are of great importance. As you know, immediate relocation of the SVU, we believe, is of the highest priority; we testified to that last year. We are very disappointed at how long this has taken. 99 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 As you know, we've been invited by Commissioner Timoney to review case files. The review takes place at the Special Victims Unit, and we have seen firsthand the condition of this facility, and I know you know this, but I would really like to put it on the record.

Yes, please.

You know that it is in a very inconvenient location; the Special Victims Unit is located in the Arsenal Business Center, a commercial facility in Northeast Philadelphia. It's difficult to find and enter. Once you find the Arsenal Business Center and enter the barbed-wire fence through the main gates, a visitor encounters guard who must give permission to enter. My colleague, Terri Farmson (ph.) and I were made to pull over once and get out of the car and identify ourselves at the gate, even though we said we had an appointment at the Special Victims Unit. As soon as I indicated that I was a lawyer, we were passed through. Imagine a victim of sexual assault having to explain why she needed to see someone at the Special Victims Unit. The 100 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 guards, who are not employees of the Police Department, do not appear to have a clear guidance or to follow it, if it has been provided, as to how to handling visitors to the SVU. Finding the building is a challenge, parking is an even greater challenge. When one locates the building, the only public access is by an elevator that frequently does not work; and even when it does, it's necessary to use a code to call it, and the code is sometimes missing from the phone. An alternate doorway, which provides access to the stairs to the third floor, also requires a code to enter it; no instructions are available to the visitor. The facility itself is overcrowded. Police officers, detectives, and clerical people are practically sitting on top of each other. The interview rooms are windowless boxes. As we sat, reviewing files, we saw arrestees being brought in handcuffed, passing by the small and overcrowded visitors room, where the victims and their families waited. When the Unit is crowded, as it frequently is, perpetrators line the hallway outside the waiting room. 101 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 The location is absolutely unacceptable from every perspective. It is unfathomable to imagine how victims waiting to be interviewed must feel. It is certainly no place for children. The officers and detectives who work at the Unit deserve better also. The investigation of sex crimes, particularly when young children have been abused, must be one of the hardest jobs that anyone can have. Both, Councilman Ortiz, you've noted that, and so did Commissioner Timoney. The work environment can only add to the stress. Now, as you have heard, the police have come a long way in responding to the crisis of the Special Victims Unit. The least the City can do is relocate this unit to a more hospitable and accessible environment. Last year, Carol Johnson testified about the condition of the facility. The Inquirer has written articles similarly describing the horrific conditions. The fact that so little progress has been made in a whole year is really a public disgrace. Testimony was also provided last year about the collocation of the Police Department, 102 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 Department of Human Services, and the District Attorney to improve the handling of cases involving children. A trip to Brooklyn was organized under the auspices of Council to visit a collocated unit. We agreed that collocation would be beneficial to child victims, but appreciate the time and work that needs to be done to make this a reality. We understand that Commissioner Martinez is currently reviewing her department's position with regard to collocation, which, we understand, has been the holdup in this -- for ten years, I might add. Ideally, relocation and collocation should be occur at the same time.

They're having a --

Pardon?

They're -- they have structured a management labor task force.

Yes. They did that several months ago, I believe.

To begin doing this and --

Well, you just -- you mentioned earlier the possibility, I think, of 103 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 perhaps bringing people together and perhaps to move this along, this body should have a hearing on this issue.

Right. I think it's --

And Chris is available to give some information about that. But I don't know how often it has to be said what a crisis relocation and collocation is. I know, last winter, that there were people -- and I'm not sure if it was from the Capital Office or from the Office of Public Property -- that were up there measuring, that this has been on someone's agenda since last January or February. I don't know why it took so long to get to the Capital Projects Office or what additional advocacy we need to do it, but we need to do it and we need to do it very quickly.

We need to keep flashing lights on this.

Yeah. In terms of case handling, as was previously testified, we think that the existing protocol and training are not yet adequate. I 104 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 think Captain Mooney described various pieces of protocol that exist in the City. I think we need to get that in one document.

I recommended that too.

Yes. And we have given them -- we did provide a model that Captain Mooney discussed. I think it's a question of making these things happen. And improvements in training are needed. Again, we heard some testimony this morning about some training that has gone on that at least I was unaware of. The training piece we have not pulled together completely. I'd just like to let you know what I know at this point, given that we got additional information this morning.

We were not able to get a clear answer, really, from either the Commissioner or Captain Tim -- Captain Mooney.

Captain Mooney.

On what that training encompassed. And we'd really like to see a detailed manual on what that training is, 105 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 because it's not just bringing in detectives and saying, you know, you got to be sensitive to these things, and --

Well, that's right. What we know is that there's, I think, four hours of training in sex crimes that goes on at the Police College for new recruits. Women Organized Against Rape participates in that. More recent recruits have received live-scenario training at the conclusion of the Police College and have handled a sex crime scenario. I'll describe more about that in a minute. What I don't think exists is a complete module of training for new staff or continuing education for existing staff. It goes on, apparently, but I don't think there's a clear module of training. We understand the one-week training was given to the recent class of detectives -- or the class of detectives that were specially assigned for the reinvestigation. Commissioner Timoney indicated that another class is graduating, and in a meeting we had with Chief Inspector Maxwell last week, he indicated that they continued that 106 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 additional one-week training. So we hope that we have the opportunity to provide input and to get a clear description of everything that goes on. We have been provided with some training materials, and we were recently invited to observe the live-scenario training that the Police Department does at the Navy Yard. Do you know about this? They use the old houses, the vacant housing at the Navy Yard, and they enact crime scenes. They have either police officers or actors. I believe Brad Richman is one of the actors. And the recruits who have now finished their Police College training come upon the scene, they have to interview the people. Sometimes there's a suspect in the house. We viewed the sex crimes and the domestic disturbance; there were two or three other scenes -- robberies and those sorts of things -- that were going on. We think that it's an incredibly impressive training opportunity, and we have been offered to -- we have been invited to offer scenario scripts. ) and Captain Grover and Lieutenant McCafferty 107 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 from the Police College that organized all of this. But it was also pretty clear to us from the response that we were seeing from the new officers that it's important to have organized protocol and training for the proper handling of these cases. There are some essential aspects of training for this job, which we believe are missing or are not fully incorporated either in the current curriculum or in the training of all special victims units. Particularly sensitive interviewing of traumatized victims, some of whom may have difficulty with immediate recollection or retelling of events which they recently experienced, is one such critical piece. Officers need to understand that such difficulties and subsequent recollection do not indicate that the victim is not credible, but instead, are common responses to trauma. There are other areas of training that we think are missing from the training, which have been a part of a curriculum that was developed by the National Center for Women and Policing. At our suggestion, the Philadelphia Police Department sent two trainers to the Train-the-Trainers 108 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 Workshop sponsored by the Center. We believe that some of that is being incorporated; but quite frankly, we're not quite sure where everything exists. So we look forward to -- the Commissioner has told us all along that he will accept our input on protocol and training. We just spoke with Brad Richman, who wants to sit down with us soon to organize this. In another area, which we're calling "Officer Support," we mentioned earlier -- you did, the Commissioner did -- that there is serious burnout that many of these officers must experience. And while the Department recognizes that police work can be traumatic and has provided all officers access to employee assistance programs and provided a segment on emotional health in the recruit training, this may not be enough for Special Victims Unit staff.

We have learned that psychotherapists who work with patients who have been physically and sexually abused suffer from a vicarious or secondary trauma and take steps to recover from it. I know that the staff at Women Organized 109 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 Against Rape also have some protocol for dealing with it. It appears to us that officers working in the Special Victims Unit must likewise suffer from some secondary trauma, and help should be available to assist them in dealing with it. It would seem that at the minimum, there should be some regular screening and assistance provided to those in need. On the coding manual, we learned for the first time this morning that it is complete. We had not been (unintelligible) for that draft. I just mentioned that to Brad Richman, who said that we will have it today. They have shared two previous drafts with us and solicited our comments. We have given them extensive comments. Many of our recommendations were accepted, some were not. So we haven't seen the last revision. At our last review of it, we thought that it was still much too cumbersome. And we were also concerned -- we were taking about the 2625 investigation of person. These are the third-party reports that come in. If it comes in from DHS as a third party, it comes in as 2625, and it may then get recoded to a crime category. 110 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 And I think it is the view of all of us that the third-party report, instead of classifying it as investigation, medical investigation, it should be classified based on the conduct, not based on who the reporter is. So that was -- I don't know where that's wound up in the coding manual. It was an issue that we hoped we could thrash through with them a little bit. In the process of reviewing the current manual and draft revisions, we have become aware of the strong influence that the Uniform Crime Code has on the definition of rape has -- or the Uniform Crime Code's definition of rape has on Philadelphia coding practices. And you heard the Commissioner discuss it several times this morning. Unfortunately, the UCR definition of rape is over 70 years old and is out of line with the enormous changes in public understanding of this crime, and consequently, with the definitions of serious sex crimes set forth in our state's crime code. Since the Philadelphia Police Department is required to report crime to the 111 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 federal government based on the UCR definition of rape, this definition unnecessarily complicates the coding system in Philadelphia, causing the code system to defer more to the UCR than to State law. We're in the process of drafting a letter to the FBI, requesting that they update their definition of rape to be more in line with the current State crime codes. We will circulate a copy of this letter in the next few days to relevant parties, including Police Commissioner Timoney, in the hope that he will sign on to it and perhaps get the police chiefs too, because it's our impression that everyone hates it.

If the Supreme Court comes down on the wrong side today --

Depending on who -- it doesn't --

-- you can expect a response of the FBI that will go back to 1875.

One hopes not. That's all we can say. And, frankly, under liberal administrations, it has continued to exist, so I'm not sure this is an issue that gets broken down 112 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 that way. But I think there is significant advocacy to change that.

Mm-hmm.

Case review. As you know, in an unprecedented move last spring, Commissioner Timoney asked the advocacy groups to review closed-case files, and he does refer to us as "the women's groups," but I also want to ad, make sure that it is noted, that it is the women's and the children's groups. Frankly, we know of no other citizens groups that has been ever been invited by a police department to review files. And needless to say, we took this invitation very seriously, and I believe have acted conscientiously and responsibly in this review. Among other things, we promised confidentiality and did not take notes. The names and identifying information of the complainants, suspects, and witnesses were redacted from the files. Our first review was of the rapes that the Department determined was unfounded for 1999. As we told you last June, the vast majority of the cases that were unfounded, a little over 100, were 113 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 recantations, and many of them appeared to have involved domestic violence. We subsequently reviewed the cases that were put in the noncriminal categories. These cases were primarily the ones we just discussed, the 2625 medical investigation. Our review has helped us to identify a number of issues that should be addressed and revise police protocol. Stop the use, or threat of use, of victim polygraphs -- and Commissioner Timoney said they only be used when approved by the captain. We don't like their use under any circumstances, or the threat of their use.

The thing that surprised me is the extensive use of these polygraphs that was done by that division over time over the last few years.

I'm not -- I don't know.

Yeah.

In one case where we were involved, a polygraph had been scheduled, but the captain was not informed of it. And at that time, he said policy existed that it could only be scheduled with his approval. I think it's also 114 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 the threat of them. It's apparently commonly used in police work. We don't like it in the context of victims. We also think that the recantations might be reduced by addressing some of the safety concerns of domestic violence victims and young people potentially facing family pressures or violence. I mean, with some of the recantations of young people, Commissioner Timoney referred to that they might get in trouble. Well, you know, they talked about it. They were going to go home and say they were raped or they were going to get beaten for being out, or they were going to get beaten for saying they were raped. I mean, there are other very serious issues that may or may not be police issues but I think it's important for public concern. And we've also identified the need to improve the collection and use of forensic evidence, including need rape kits and drug screens. And we understand that some part of the City Council heard testimony last year from a forensic nurse, Kathy Brown, related to the need for much better forensic evidence collection at 115 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 the hospitals. And, finally, at our first meeting with the Commissioner last year, he indicated that he would provide us with the data on crime in any format that we requested. Based on our work and the coding manual, information that the police have provided us about their databases, our understanding of the role of the FBI's Uniform Crime Code, and our review of cases, we've drafted a format for reporting sexual assault crimes to the public. We are recommending that the Police Department issue an annual public report that includes the number of sex crime complaints received by the Department and categorizes the reports according to both the Pennsylvania's Crimes Code and the Department's coding manual, identifying which are felonies and which are misdemeanors. The important distinction to make here, when the Uniform Crime Code, when we hear the description here about rapes, we're talking about one kind of sexual assault -- the vaginal-penile penetration of the female by force. In fact, 116 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 there are many sex crimes. Involuntary deviant sexual intercourse is anal or oral rape, or penetration by an object, they are every bit as serious. If as a public community, we want to respond to this and know the prevalence of it, we need to have this kind of information reported. It is the Justice Department that is the problem here, and I believe that we can get this information -- your -- my testimony has a draft attached to it, laid out in the way that we think can be helpful. We gave it to Chief Inspector Maxwell last week, and we've circulated it among our colleagues. In this request, we want to know the number of cases which were founded and unfounded, in which an arrest was made, in which domestic violence and Child Protective Services were involved and broken down by the age of the victim. So we hope that we will be able to have that kind of a report similar to that. There may be additional information. Councilman Ortiz, there may be additional information that you would like. There had been these issues in the past 117 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 about the neighborhoods, which we did not include on this, that perhaps should be included. And the gender of the person and the race of the person. But at least in terms of the data that we know currently exist, we believe that we can get that kind of information.

I also think, as we were talking and you were talking to the Commissioner this morning, asking for this, that sometime perhaps in the next two months, we might issue a joint report from the women's groups, as he calls us, and from the Police Department, where we pull all of this together, so that we can have a public report. I think I will suggest that to the Commissioner. We haven't met with him for a while. We have been meeting up at the Special Victims Unit, and I should say again what I said last June: they have been incredibly gracious. I can't imagine we're the most popular people coming into that unit. It is a unit that has been subjected to extraordinary public scrutiny and criticism -- and criticism by you us. But, nevertheless, we have been treated very professionally, very responsibly, and we believe 118 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 that they are very sincere in their attempts to change. We do know from some of the reports that we have gotten -- I think I overlooked this -- that there are still some problems. We still get calls from women that suggest that some of their -- that they have been disbelieved, that the -- they are being interrogated rather than interviewed, that communication has been -- has expressed more concern for the impact of the report of the crime on the perpetrator than for the impact of the crime on the victim, and some suggestions that some of the officers just don't understand or know how to respond to trauma in a way that current psychological literature would allow. So that as we're still -- we're seeing changes, we're still seeing that there are some problems. And, hopefully, training maybe rotation, maybe helping the officers deal with their own trauma. It's a complex array of information. I think we know there is no simple solution to all of this. I think in general, we feel that we're 119 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 on the right course, and the Department has responded appropriately. We've got to get them out of that facility. And, you know, 5,000 cases, they are increasing their caseload quite dramatically. Many, many more people are reporting to them.

Well, I believe, as the citizens and especially women feel more confident in the process, that they will be less afraid of reporting it.

That's right. And the volume of work. I would suggest that that's part of what we've seen this year. It's not just a question of they're categorizing the reports appropriately; there is an increase in the number of reports that have come in.

One of the areas in which I've asked the Commissioner, and I've asked this question in the previous hearings, is, I've wanted to get a picture of who gets involved in these crimes, especially in terms of the victims -- African-American women, Latino women. And I've been asking for a breakdown in terms of race and district areas. 120 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

Mm-hmm.

Because there are neighborhoods -- and like I said, there are neighborhoods that get huge amounts of publicity when one incident happens; and where this occurs many more times, there is no reporting about it. And I believe that it leads -- it leads to the type of sense within in some neighborhoods across the City, the poorer neighborhoods, that the attention is not given or -- and may perhaps lead to women in those neighborhoods just not even bothering because they don't believe that nothing is going to get done.

Mm-hmm.

So they don't report in the Barrio or in West Philly or in North Central Philadelphia. So I've asked the Commissioner -- he hasn't given us data on that yet, but I would like to see it broken down by the areas of the City and by the gender and by race.

I -- there is a report that I have seen that breaks it down by police district. I think it's part of the COMPSTAT 121 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 reporting.

That's the COMPSTAT.

And I thought -- and I'm still a little confused about this. I thought that -- you know, there's the weekly COMPSTAT. There's also a special units COMSTAT that includes narcotics and homicide. I thought that also included Special Victims Unit. When I spoke with -- when I met with Chief Inspector Maxwell last week, he said it did not. So I'm not clear about that. We may have miscommunicated a little bit. But I know that there are quarterly reports that I -- I'm certain that I've seen it broken down by district as well.

I'd like to see it broken down by district and by the race, because I think we will begin to get a clearer picture.

Yeah.

And this is not an issue that's really discussed out there. I mean, really, we don't have an ongoing debate about this in the community. Carol? Identify yourself for the record. 122 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044

Yes. I'm Carol Johnson, Executive Director of Women Organized Against Rape, and we are the part of that that actually deals with the victim survivors. Last year, we saw more than 3600 victim survivors provided counseling; over a thousand of those were children. And in this work, it is very stressful. In our organization, we encourage our counselors to stay with us for three -- no more three years, and then they need to move on. Because, particularly when you're dealing with the children and you have to go to court with them and you have to see small children testifying against adults, and many times in their own families -- their fathers, step-fathers, and brothers and their siblings. But one of the things that we do is, we keep our own statistics, which may not always be the same as the police statistics because people who come to WOAR, don't necessarily go through the Police Department. The majority of the people that we see are incest survivors or they've been -- it's sexual abuse that has occurred by someone 123 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 known to them, probably at least 80 percent of the people that we see be. But we do know this from open statistics, that the majority of women that we see, women and children, are African-American, 78 percent. We are now seeing an increasing number in the Latino community because we have counselors working in the Latino community now from WOAR. So we are seeing people coming forward and getting counseling services. We feel that the people who come to us, and because we have such a high number, are in North Philadelphia, West Philadelphia, South Philly, Northwest. And Center City is the smallest percentage, but Center City gets the most attention whenever there's a sexual assault. And I believe it's the media, and there's more interest in Center City because of work locations and --

I also believe it's race.

And race, absolutely. But when something occurs in North Philadelphia, there's very little attention to 124 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 it. And I don't think the media's that interested in it, or makes that much of an attempt to do as much cover it. So we have a different slant on stats as far as how they break down. And so when you talk about profiling, we're looking at a profile, we look pretty much -- the majority of our clients coming in are African-American, and now it's (unintelligible) more by Latino, more Asian people are coming to us, and more -- and a smaller number is European. And it's simply based on because we're doing a lot more outreach to people to educate them, to let them know that there's someone there that can help them and where to go. And that means a lot as far as how your statistics will fall out.

Frank?

Yes, thank you. Unfortunately, I have to leave, and I'm pleased I've been able to sit through this hearing this morning. And I recall, Counselor, you bringing to our attention many of the discrepancies, and I know there's a member of the Administration here 125 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 monitoring this hearing. Some of the problems that you describe that continue to exist with access to the facility, obviously, we're not going to get out of this facility quickly, so I'd like to see some of the things that can be dealt with dealt. So I know we can get your comments from the transcript, but it would be helpful if maybe you could provide to the Chair a list of the some of the discrepancies that you described, and we possibly could deal with some of those problems short-term until this new facility is designed, developed. Because you shouldn't have to live with some of the things that you described. And, again, I think it's more administrative and just detail to temporarily take care of some of these items that you described at that particular facility.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that the hard part is to be here this year and still be in the same place is -- it seems to me that the police have done the much harder job here, in reinvestigating, in changing practice, and trying to change the culture of the Department in 126 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 relation to this issue. And all we're talking about is bricks and mortar.

Right.

I mean, that's solvable, that should have been the easy part.

Right.

And the fact that it hasn't happened just speaks volumes to people who are working there and people who are coming there of the City's commitment to change it. And it does not look good, it doesn't look good.

Mr. Chairman, and I'm not dumping on you. If you get that list and you need someone to facilitate taking care of that --

But it's the priorities that we set, so it's part of what it comes down to. Any questions? Councilman Clarke?

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon. I had an earlier question to the Commissioner about the geographical areas in terms of reports, and I've just heard you say that 127 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 you've referenced certain locations in the City. Can you kind of talk to me about why we have maybe this disparity in reports in various areas of the City? Can you talk to me about the conditions that may create these types of crimes? I know in other types of crimes when we've had hearings, we've talked about drugs and homicides and other types of areas, and we've always talked about the conditions and the environments, the neighborhoods. We talked about the socioeconomic conditions of certain neighborhoods that created these types of crimes. Can you give me a sense of, from your perspective, of why we may have, say, for instance, in the part of City that I represent, North Philadelphia, such a high level of incidence of sexual assault? Have you done an analysis on that?

Let me take a stab at this. No, I don't think I've done analysis, but I think all of the literature we know suggests that sex crimes know no geography or class distinction.

Mm-hmm.

I think it may be who 128 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 reports. I think that families may be more likely to cover up issues, particularly if they think there is much more at stake. On the other, hand poverty exacerbates everything. And the unrelenting poverty in so many neighborhoods, the intergenerational transmission of violence that we see. I think it is totally inexplicable to any of us how anyone can sexually abuse a child. It just does -- it defies any kind of logic, it defies human nature. Certainly, psychiatrists and psychologists have suggested that many people who do that have reenacted what has happened to them. So I -- I think that some of it is people who wan to -- always has to put a class frame over things to see who is going to report what.

Mm-hmm.

People who are in public systems, who are poor are more likely to be scrutinized than others. And I think people who are poor have the pressures of poverty that are so unrelenting that frequently lead to alcohol and drug abuse have some correlation, but just a 129 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 correlation, with violence. And I think what we as a society have not addressed at all, even remotely adequately, is what causes this violence. And, frankly, most of the perpetrators of the violence are men; they perpetrate a great deal of violence against each other. The greatest number of victims of violence are men, but they are at the hands of other men. And we don't -- we haven come to terms with that at all, in any meaningful way, I think.

You referenced the family. Is it -- do you get a sense -- you talked about -- and correct me if I'm wrong. You implied that in some instances if there's a stronger family structure, that may not get reported? Or is it a difference in the way that it's reported statistically for the public? I mean, I --

I think what I meant to say is families of means are less likely to try to get themselves in the public system because they understand the scrutiny that comes upon them.

So -- okay, so --

So that one might see a disproportionate amount of sexual violence or 130 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 child abuse among poor people. While it is important to know -- I think people who work on hotlines, and I think Carol probably will be able to speak to this better than I. For those people who avoid the police system, one might see a greater disparity in class issues because they avoid that system.

Mm-hmm.

And they're not in that system.

Mm-hmm.

I don't know that it's family structure. I mean, I've certainly dealt with cases, when I was at the University of Pennsylvania in the Women's Center, I dealt with very upper middle-class families where sexual abuse of children, where the young women who were coming in to see me, who were undergraduates, had been terribly sexually abused in their families, but they were never reported, they weren't in the public system.

Just didn't get -- it wasn't a part of the system.

So I think it's a mistake 131 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 to see it as an issue of poverty. I think it's also a mistake not to understand the role that poverty has in exacerbating virtually every other dysfunctional social condition.

So the likelihood is that they would also fall within this category also.

Yeah. Carol?

What we are saying is, this behavior starts at a very young age, it starts where they're in school. What we're seeing now is more kids perpetrating one another -- kindergarten. And it is at an epidemic level now. The schools will not report it because they don't want the notoriety. But it is so -- it is growing every day. Boys are attacking girls. When they're called to conference --

Not pulling pigtails or anything, just outright attacks.

Mm-hmm. And, yes, the reason that they give us, I just wanted to -- I just wanted to beat her up, I just wanted to jump on her. That's all -- that's what they know. And 132 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 we are hearing that in one school seven times in one school, and yet it was never reported. But we know it because we're there giving programs. So it is such a massive effort that you have to start with the very young, and it's -- so when it gets to what Carol is talking about, to the families, it's not that it's any economic level; it's across the board. But the more you have to lose, the less you're going to report it or the more you're going to --

And in different cultures --

And cultures -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)

-- there's an aspect of shame that is imposed.

Exactly.

And that aspect of shame sometimes leads to just withdrawing and not talking about it, not reporting it, and keeping it within the framework of the family as such.

The one thing that encourages me now, there is more money being 133 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 poured into the prevention side of it, because if you don't start the prevention piece, then we'll be sitting here years from now talking about 5 statistics and what is not getting done. So that 6 is so key. 7 And we're working in North Philadelphia 8 right now, with the clusters, because they've 9 asked us to come and do it. 10

Councilwoman? 11

Yes. Good 12 afternoon. 13 On the report -- in anticipating the 14 report of the Commissioner, with the coding 15 refinement and uniformity of the coding system, 16 did I misunderstand your remarks in that there is 17 not -- nothing is a hundred percent, but where you 18 are in terms of satisfaction with the bottom line 19 of that effort? 20

Well, I don't -- we haven't seen the final product.

Okay.

I -- the -- our first set of revisions included -- many of their codes were not in conformance with the State Crime Code, so 134 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 we gave information to that effect; they accepted that. But there were a number -- I don't know if they accepted our last round of suggestions. We haven't seen it.

Do you know if they will? I mean, will there be another opportunity for dialogue prior to the final production of that report?

I certainly hope so because I -- my impression, from my brief conversation with Brad Richman, suggested that he was very surprised that we hadn't seen it. I don't think we get to sign off on it the way that the Commissioner does. But it was the invitation to us that we would look at it. And, you know, it was a lot of work. We, again, took that project very, very seriously. So I'm disappointed that it's that far along and we hadn't seen it, but I -- it's not clear to me that the Commissioner knows that we haven't seen it.

And so it's not yet a missed opportunity?

I hope not. I don't know. 135 12/12/00 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 000044 I mean, he said that he had signed off on it and he had given it to Inspector Brennan, I think, so I don't know.