They couldn't promise us any money, so that's not a negotiation.
In other words, it's always about the Benjamins. That's what it's about here. So don't take less.
Everyone in this room, I think every contractor is willing to take a cut. That's just construction, 76 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 unfortunately.
Mr. Rosenberg, thank you very much for your testimony. I want to take the liberty of the Chair and invite up Jihad Allal (ph), Contractors Roundtable, and Jamal Johnson, Contractors Roundtable, so that we can hear your testimony prior to bringing up TKM and KUD. Please state your full name for the record and who you represent.
Jamal Johnson from the Contractors Roundtable, Councilwoman.
Your honorable Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown and your colleagues, we just want to bring to your attention that Philadelphia has been very unfriendly to the African-American construction community, Hispanic. If you don't believe me, you can go 77 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 out and look at the public works jobs. You can look at the private sector jobs. You can look at Corporate American Retrofits down Center City. We've been excluded on a substantial basis from these jobs, particularly the public works jobs, because these are the jobs that we usually get opportunities to work in. Even the public works jobs now over the last, I'd say, under Rendell's Administration and under John's Administration, we've been pretty much involved in the lack of participation. These reasons may be a lack of reaching out. It could be a lack of public officials vying for us. It could be just blatantly racism. Probably all of the above. All we know is we're suffering from lack of progress in the construction community. If it continues, this trend continues, we're actually suffering from genocide on the construction. We can't learn state-of-the-art construction technologies in the high-rise buildings going up. We won't be able to hand 78 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 our skills down to our children. We're asking the public sector, public officials, we're asking the private sector, the large contractors to let's turn this trend around. Because if we continue it, we're going to be pretty much left out of the construction industry businesses. It's not like we're doing swell in Philadelphia when it comes to construction. You see the sites going up. We're asking you to turn this trend around. Right now our Contractors Roundtable, we have a sponsor where we sponsor the Tools for Guns initiative. If we don't have these opportunities to do these construction projects, particularly the multi-residential projects -- if you go down, for instance, Richard Allen, if you go down to Lucien Blackwell, we're not working there on a substantial basis. You might see one or two of us, if that many. But in terms of seeing large volumes of youth working, we can't hand them skills. We can't hand them tools. We can't hand them hammers. We can't hand them 79 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 meters because we're not on there. Businesses, it is a known fact, hire people that look like them. We're not out there on those jobs. They don't look like us on a substantial basis. We haven't particularly been on the private sector jobs, but the public works jobs are the ones that we really try to go after, but we just haven't been on them. The economic impact of the public works jobs, we're not feeling them. You go to the Lucien Blackwell Homes, you don't see an economic impact of the African American community on those jobs, particularly public works. You go down to City Hall projects, Constitutional Center, a lot of us didn't feel an economic impact of that job. I'm not anti-white. I'm not anti-union. But Rick Mariano, his people are working. Mr. Rizzo, his people are working. South Philly is working. Northeast is working. But when it comes to the inner City of West Philadelphia, the inner city of North 80 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 Philadelphia, our youth are not working. Our youth are going around shooting people for a $50 loan because when they come to us and ask us, could we get on this job, do you have any work for us, or can we get a job, we can't even give them no employment because when we go to get these jobs, we've got all kinds of obstacles. We've got all kinds of hindering issues that prevent us from doing this work. We have the skills. We have the expertise. We have the knowledge. We have the skills. We got the wherewithal to do these jobs. But when it comes down to us actually getting on them, the public works jobs, mind you, we're not on them.
We're asking you as the Philadelphia public officials that represent us to stop this trend, because everything is not fine and dandy in our community. We can come here and we can laugh and joke and smile. But our community, we're not doing fine and dandy at all. When it comes to these economic contracts, we're not just suffering on a 81 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 construction level, in professional services, legal services, accounting services, engineering services, all across the board. In Philadelphia we're not really doing that well, black Philadelphia. So we don't need to be down here smiling, handshaking, like everything is fine and dandy when you look at our community. We're trying to for the sake of our future, for our youth, because we're in our 40s and 50s. It hasn't been looking good for us for the last eight years under the Rendell Administration and the years under John. Construction has been very unfriendly to us. We was working when Goode was here. We were getting public works jobs. We were on those sites. All of a sudden, soon as Rendell came, the jobs started going to groups that don't look like us. I'm not anti-union either. I'm just pro African-American. There's enough work in this City for everybody. Keating used to reach out for us, Dumus (ph), Dale (ph). All of them used to reach out to us. Now there's only a few 82 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 select contractors involved with negotiating deals. But us in terms of a wide spectrum of African American contractors, we're not involved in these deals.
To your knowledge, are any members of the Contractors Roundtable involved in any activities specifically at the stadium?
Just one or two. And the one or two that was there suffered financially and are on the brink of going out of business. So it's not just the Eagles. We're talking about construction across the whole board. We're just here to ask you to turn this trend around, because if you don't, 10, years from now you're just going to see 2 19 percent of us on these construction sites. We 20 need the public officials. We need the private sector. We need Keating. We need Dale, all you guys, to reach out. They got this cliche going around, one City, one dream, one town. Well, let's make that cliche a real cliche instead of just 83 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 what it is, a cliche only. That's all I wanted to say as a representative of the Contractors Roundtable. We want to see Philadelphia as a whole benefit from the public works jobs, particularly on the construction level.
For the record, that was Jamal Johnson. Mr. Allal, are you prepared to offer your testimony, please?
Yes, ma'am. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to come and speak to you this afternoon. I'd also like to remind all the leaders here that when this project was funded and they came and they asked for over $300 million dollars to do these two stadiums, the City Council was here to support that. At the last minute they came in with an MBE plan and said that they were going to assure that minority businesses were included in this 84 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 project. That happened at the last minute. On this project, on Turner's job, I personally had a company, A-Plus Construction. They called us to come when they first put the office trailers there. They asked us to supply a carpenter to do something, maybe put up some drafting tables. So we went down there to do something that should have took one man one day's worth of work and ended up turning that to $12,000 on drafting tables and miscellaneous stuff around the offices. But that wasn't my first business relationship with Turner. That was my second. My first business relationship with Turner almost occurred the same way. Turner was doing West Park, a PHA project, and they called us in to do almost something similar, to do some miscellaneous construction work. That contract turned from maybe $100 to maybe $100,000. But it took two years for me to get my money. And that was after the carpenters union closed on my bond, my fringe benefit bond, which we always talked about union and contractors. 85 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 One of the most significant things about unionized workers are for a company, a company has to put up a bond to ensure that those fringe benefit hours are paid to the union. Well, my bond was put up by the GBCA, General Building Contracts Association, and that subsequently got called because Turner didn't pay me. I had to go to a PHA board meeting, every board meeting, for, I think, almost six months when they finally had them pay me. If it wasn't for Carl Green taking the lead, I wouldn't have been paid. I'm really here today not just to relate my story to you, but to stand up for Luis Cruz. Because Lou Cruz, one thing that is significant that I want you all to focus on is that Luis is from a Latino community and I'm from the African American community. When Luis was riding high and the Eagles and Turner Organization had him in the paper as a minority contractor, Luis reached back for us. (Applause.)
At that time in our history in Philadelphia we were the 86 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 Contractors Roundtable, members that you see, along with Ms. Sacaree Rhodes, we were taken in all across the City. We did the Constitution Center. We did this and did that. It wasn't a coincidence that they were touting Luis as one of their success stories. But we were going to picket them. However, because Louie asked us to give this process an opportunity -- which I fully support because I think it takes that type of leadership. Nobody likes to fight, but somebody has to know how. Nobody likes to be put on the burner, but somebody has to pay the cost when things go wrong. One thing that's significant about Luis Cruz is when he was on top he didn't foresee none of these problems. None of us did. But he was willing to reach back. He personally funded the Contractors Roundtable to get organized where we are today. And that says a lot. One other thing that we need to think about. If Luis goes out of business -- 87 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 which will happen if he doesn't get paid. I know the attorney said that there's some settlement offered maybe sometime in 2005. But that might as well be 2015. Because when you need money to settle all your outstanding debts -- he needs it now. What we need this leadership to do is tell Turner, look, this is unacceptable. I want this man paid. Or we as a body, we want this man paid. Let them go to the bank. (Applause.)
On all these contracts, they have contingency and general conditions and they have a profit line. Let Turner pay him from their profit. TKM and Keating, let them pay him now, arrange for a bank to pay all these outstanding bills and let them dispute that when that arbitration comes up and let them take the hit. Furthermore, if they're not going to do that, then let's give them a taste of their own medicine. Let's put them out. Let's ice them from all City work. (Applause.) 88 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912
Madam Chairwoman and Members of Council, Turner, on their web site, they build this up as a City. Turner isn't just a United States large construction company. They are a global construction company. They do over $5 billion a year in construction. They are big business. Now, they've come a long way since there was a Mr. Turner, believe it or not, and he was a member of this association on 18th Street. But they've come a long way since that. But this City that Turner constructs, is a City that they have. That is a City where racism is allowed. That's the City where discrimination is tolerated, and that's the City where the poor are treated unjustly. We cannot have that. We are not here talking about what's good. We're talking about the taxpayers dollars that they took from us to build the stadium. We're talking about how they teach this guy. Luis Cruz, he'll suffer another loss if this company fails. By the way, it's a second generation 89 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 company. That's a lie. He's a second generation company and his company is located in the neighborhood. I've been in his office. When you ride there in the summer, there's little kids playing in the street, young boys walking up and down, young girls walking up and down. They see those guys coming up with those trucks. He's an example. He's an example for those future generations that won't go to college, that don't want to lead a life of crime. He's an example of a successful businessman. We talk about crime every day. We talk to drugs. One of the things that leads -- and I can tell you this from my own example. Almost 30 years ago, I met Jamal when I got out of the service. I can tell you, when I got out the service, one thing I learned was that you lead by example. By him being a businessman, that is an example that young kids will never say anything to him, maybe even go up and shake his hand, but they will see that and they'll know that and they become businessmen and business women. We've 90 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 got to make sure that survives. We're here to implore you to say to Turner, your City that you built, the type of business that you do is unacceptable and whatever you got to do, straighten this out. (Applause.)
Thank you, Mr. Allal. We want to thank both of you gentlemen for your very, very important testimony. Thank you very, very much. If we can please invite to the witness table, Michael Kuntz of TKM, Dennis Biggs of KUD International and Bob Hoffman of KUD.
Good afternoon, gentlemen. I called three names and we have five, so I need to ask each of you to state who you are and let's start with that, please. And identify who you representing.
My name is Dennis Biggs. I represent KUD International. (Audience outburst.)
Christopher Lee, counsel for KUD. 91 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912
We are now going to continue with the testimony. Thank you, gentlemen. I would ask that you please state your name for the record and your affiliation.
Michael Kuntz, vice president and general manager, Turner Construction.
Excuse me, Madam Chair. Can I ask one question so that they can respond to it?
Surely. As soon as we get who they are on the record.
Thank you, gentlemen. We want to ask Councilwoman Majority 92 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 Leader Jannie Blackwell --
We have not heard testimony from these gentlemen, I should state.
Alright. I hope that somebody today will answer the question of why the prime and the minority contractors -- why everybody is being asked to lower their prices. They still haven't gotten paid. I just want to know why should they? Why is everybody being asked to lower their prices? That's everybody who's appeared and everybody who's owed money. That's what I'm told. They're all being asked to reconsider prices and I want to know why.
Thank you. Mr. Biggs, would you please proceed with your testimony. Do you have written testimony? State who's offering testimony.
Good afternoon. Thank you. As I stated, I'm Michael Kuntz. I'm the general manager from Turner Construction company here in Philadelphia. 93 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 TKM, a joint venture of Turner Construction Company and Keating Building Corporation, in association with the McKissack Group, is proud to have built a world-class, state-of-the-art stadium for the City of Philadelphia and the NCF Championship Philadelphia Eagles. Lincoln Financial Field has been widely recognized as the best stadium in the National Football League, being called the jewel of the NFL by Fox Sports' Chris Cullen. Notwithstanding a large number of last minute changes by the Eagles and its development manager, Kajima Urban Development, and some of the worst weather for construction in Philadelphia's history, TKM and its subcontractors delivered the stadium nearly two weeks ahead of the scheduled completion date. TKM is seeking payment from Kajima and the Eagles for the work performed by TKM and its subcontractors. TKM and Kajima have been working through the dispute resolution of these funds through the dispute resolution procedures 94 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 provided in the contract between TKM and Kajima. Unfortunately, these procedures have not resulted in the payment of funds from Kajima and the Eagles as we had anticipated. The failure of Kajima and the Eagles to pay all the funds for TKM for work performed by our subcontractors, including base work and retainage that is not in dispute, has resulted in direct impacts to TKM subcontractors, as we've heard today, in their contracts with TKM. Each of the subcontractors agreed that the subcontractor would not be paid until TKM had received payment for the subcontractors' work from Kajima. As a result, their failure to pay hurts both TKM and our subcontractors. Simply put, TKM and our subcontractors provided an outstanding facility to Kajima and the Eagles, and TKM and its subcontractors are entitled to be paid the money for the work we performed. We are in a dispute resolution 24 process, as contractually allowed. We have made some progress in recent weeks, and I 95 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 applaud Mr. Biggs for coming to the table with us in trying to work through the process. We hope to continue that process after these hearings. Thank you.
Thank you, sir Is anyone else prepared to testify? Mr. Biggs, KUD International.
Good afternoon. My name is Dennis Biggs with KUD International. KUD International and its role as program manager for the Eagles was contracted to deliver the project on time and on budget. As with all major construction projects, there are contractual requirements that must be met by each and every party in order to declare that the project has been successfully completed. As many of the subcontractors are infinitely aware, the completion of Lincoln Financial Field was marred by a rush to finish that we believe can be attributed to certain parties within the construction team. The acts of those parties have probably damaged 96 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 many other subcontractors as well. Unfortunately these claims and counter-claims exist primarily within the construction team led by TKM. Our contract with TKM required them to deliver the project, meeting all of the conditions outlined in the agreements by a certain date for a guaranteed maximum price. Although the project was safe for occupancy and able to be utilized for the holding of the Eagles events, items remain that still need to be completed. KUD and TKM led extensive efforts on the project to employ local contractors, and in fact, helped this project to exceed the goals that were set within the EEOP. We believe that, for the most part, the subcontractors who worked for TKM on the project did so with diligence and professionalism commensurate with the industry standards required for a major project of this type. Unfortunately, there appear to be circumstances that exist on the project that 97 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 have affected some of them negatively. KUD is committed to continue to work within the terms of the agreements, including the required process for dispute resolution, in trying to resolve the outstanding issues on the project so all of the parties involved can receive what they are contractually due. As Mr. Kuntz stated, a mediation process is currently underway. It is currently underway. It is not delayed until the summer of 2005, as some have suggested. It is currently underway to address the issues that are being discussed today. The process is ongoing, and recently, as Mr. Kuntz has stated, we have begun to make progress. You've listened to people today who have probably created as much confusion in your mind as answers. And we find that that's somewhat symptomatic of what we've been dealing with over the last six to eight months. I believe one of the groups said that they believe that the total of claims on the project total $54 million --
Excuse me, sir. 98 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 Are you saying that we are confused by the testimony that came before?
No. I just think there are several issues that might not have --
It sounded like you said we were confused by the testimony that came before.
The number that the subcontractors stated that are owed to them is $54 million, approximately $54 million was one of the testimonies. KUD is only aware of approximately $12 to $12-and-a-half million of issues that exist.
$12 to $12-and-a-half million that exist. Of that amount, $6.4 million is for contract work and retainage to subcontractors.
Can you explain 99 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 retainage to the people in here?
Retainage was amounts withheld in the final completion of the work.
Luis Cruz finishes his work. The parking lot is ready to roll. What can't be finished about that? They park cars on it. It's striped. The drains drain. Where is the money for Luis Cruz? I'm just starting with Luis Cruz. (Applause.)
What retainage does Mr. Cruz have for 200-some thousand dollars? What retainage?
Let me ask you a question. I wanted to wait, but I just can't take it anymore. Where does KUD come from? Is it a minority held firm? Who is KUD?
KUD is located in California, and we're a subsidiary of Kajima Corporation.
So guys come from Japan, go to San Francisco, come here and don't pay Luis Cruz, right? Is that pretty much it?
You saw what happened over there. What bull crap are we dealing with here? Where is Luis' money? Where is his money? Do you have his money? Do you have Luis Cruz's money?
Who has Luis Cruz's money? Does Mr. Banner have it back there?
There is money held out by the Eagles on the balance of the project.
So the Eagles 101 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 have Luis Cruz's money? I can send everybody else here home. The Eagles have Luis Cruz's money. Is that what you're telling me?
Why don't we pay him? You're saying there are monies for Luis Cruz on his contract balance. So in the vernacular of people who don't do this every day and don't screw people with contracts, basically you owe Luis money. Your company from San Francisco to Japan owes Luis from Norris Square money. Luis, who I know. Luis, who gives money to everybody that needs help in my community, not a Hispanic community, not a white community, not a black community. A community. You're coming from Japan to San Francisco to Philadelphia and you're not going to give Luis from Norris Square his money? Come on, man. It could be Luis from South Philly, but it's Luis from Norris Square. Where Luis' money? Do you have Luis 102 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 money? Does the Eagles have Luis' money? That's the answer we need here.
The Eagles have it, right? Are you saying the Eagles have it? Now, Mr. Banner and his guys are coming. They're going to tell us the Eagles have it or they don't have it. Before we did this stuff, I told everybody, do not come in here and bullshit me. Don't waste my time. (Applause.)
This isn't for the audience. This is so they understand that I and the rest of these people are stone serious. I'm just the guy that knows the words, okay? That's where I came from. Where is his money?
Who has the money? If you don't have the money, who has the money? 103 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912
As I said, part of the money is from a contract balance amount that we are aware of.
Contract balance amount, that's money that you owe Luis, right?
That's money that is owed from the Eagles to KUD to TKM to Luis.
But it's not money for work that Luis hasn't finished, correct? He's done? He did his work?
I have a series of questions to ask before you conclude your testimony, if we allow you to conclude your testimony. The first is, your business is not in danger going out of business, is it?
That is yet to be seen. When do you anticipate closing the books on this project?
You have no 8 answer whatsoever as to when you plan on closing the books on this project?
We had hoped to close the books on this project by this time. The level of disputes between the parties --
How long do you usually leave the books open on a project?
Projects of this type, major construction projects for virtually all kinds of clients are open a year, months 18 after completion.
They generally have some conflict resolution built into them contractually and there are several parties who sign off on it, as you stated in your testimony. Who in that process represents the taxpayers? Is it paid?
You can't answer that question? You do know that there were tax dollars in the project?
Essentially if you're not aware of anyone representing the taxpayers in the dispute to close the books on the project, what you're saying is you spent the taxpayers' money first to keep the profits for yourselves?
What we're saying is that you didn't spend the taxpayers' money first. We all participated in the project, and some of that money that is owed to these contractors is our money that we put in the project. Do you disagree with that?
Did PAID close their books? 106 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912
You talk about the disputes that you all are in arbitration about. Was it at all possible to settle the disputes as they came up, or were they just all piled on the back end of the project to be dealt with at the end? Was there a process where they could have been settled on an ongoing basis?
The vast majority of all the issues along the course of the project were solved on a timely basis.
The disputes that are currently being discussed are related to acceleration to complete the project and they are related to claims that came at the end of the project. 107 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912
Cost, claims from subcontractors who believe that they should be getting more money from either TKM, the Eagles or from KUD.
Should be getting more versus money that they earned and deserve?
Well, that's the purpose of the mediation process, is to determine if their claims are valid.
If a subcontractor was asked to respond to a change order, what is the process for issuing that request? Is there a contract? Is there an amendment to the contract? Are the specifics spelled out in a way that they understand it? Is there documentation to support it? If there's documentation to support the change and the cost associated with it, what is the dispute? Did not the contractor understand what they were agreeing to? Or is there something in writing that says that you 108 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 asked them on the change order to perform something different than they were asked to originally? Is there a contract?
Who raises the issues about the reasons? Who is raising the issue?
There's a dispute between KUD and ourselves over the validity --
It comes down from KUD to Turner, to TKM, and then we instruct the subcontractors.
You discussed changing maybe how the windows are going to look? 109 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912
Well, when you got into the dispute, when you got into the request for change, you had a discussion with KUD, and you decided you were going to do B and not A.
Well, if there was a request for a change, and KUD agreed -- did they agree at the time?
There is no dispute with the entitlement. The dispute centers around this: KUD instructed us to change the contract work, change something in the stadium. We then issued an SIS, as Luis said 110 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 earlier, a subcontractors' instructions, to have them do the change work. The subcontractor followed what he was doing. We authorized that. Kajima authorized us. Now we sit here and those funds are in dispute. Most of them center around the overtime and the acceleration to finish the building on time.
None of that request was discussed when you were making your request for the change? You all are experienced contractors. You know what goes into that.
That's why we go through a process where I get written authorization from KUD.
What is the dispute? If you said that they asked you to do something and you did it, what is the dispute?
That's why we're going through the resolution process because we don't understand that in a lot of cases.
You don't 111 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 understand why they're questioning what you changed?
KUD, why are you questioning it, if you said you would agree with the change?
Councilwoman, this is exactly the dispute. The format that was used to authorize the work that Mr. Kuntz is discussing was conditional upon review of the contracts. So in order to resolve the issues, we need to have a dispute resolution process.
The question is, as Councilman Goode said, both of your companies are not going to have any financial impact negative? Neither company will have a significant financial impact. You will not go out of business because of this dispute. But your dispute has a significant impact on the subcontractors who don't have the support and the wherewithal to continue in their business. They just make it from contract to contract when you all are in dispute because you couldn't decide when you 112 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 made the change. You should have settled the issues at that point, the impact you have on the subcontractors.
That is exactly why we've elected to proceed in the mediation process.
See, you all are sitting in the office building in California and Philadelphia. You go to work every day and your families are fed and you don't have any financial impact. While you all are taking time to do that, this poor contractor can't make the next payroll. So you all need to find some way. (Applause.)
You all just can't sit there and say, well, we'll settle this between now and next year. These people will be out of business.
Councilwoman, may I 113 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 interject for one moment?
My name is Christopher Lee, and I'm counsel for KUD. The mediation process has been ongoing. As a result of this Committee and Councilman Mariano's involvement, the mediation process, through the mediator, who is probably the best mediator, I think, in the eastern part of the country, we've been working diligently to address these issues. The whole focus of the mediation has been shifted to address precisely what your concerns are. We have made substantial progress over the last several months, as I've indicated to Councilman Mariano's office. We are not quite there yet in terms of getting the kinds of results that you are looking for.
We're just looking for you all to find the money to pay these people that you have stated that you owe them. That's all.
If I may, Councilwoman. On the attorney here, he's right. We did speak. Just bear with me one minute. I told you, once we open Pandora's box, and we start getting here, everything is going to break loose. Now, just one last thing. I'm going to ask everyone to abide with me, since we have everybody sitting here. It all seems to be blamed on Mr. Banner and the Eagles. Can we get them up here to answer questions at the same time? Maybe if we all sit at the same table we can get these people their money and we can do stuff. What I just heard Councilwoman Tasco go through -- and that was a legitimate question from her -- you asked them to do something. They do something. They go to the worker. The worker does it. They come back to you and say, I'm done. Where is my money? You go to him and say, where is the money. You say, well, let's talk about the money. It's not my fault. It's the Eagles. 115 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 (Applause.)
Councilman Rick Mariano, the answer is yes. I just need you to please define substantial progress. What does that mean, given the testimony we've heard and where we're not with regard to payment to these subcontractors?
First let me say that mediation by Pennsylvania statute is a confidential process. It is the basis of mediation. I am a mediator. Most construction cases these days are resolved through mediation because it involves open and frank discussions in the safety of an umbrella of confidentiality so that there is not posturing, and reasoned minds can come together and have a practical resolution. I will say that is what we have been doing. There is a contractual chain from the Eagles to my client, KUD, to TKM, and TKM then in turn contracted with subcontractors. So 116 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 there's issues between all of them. They are very complicated. We have been focussing on a process to agree what we owe to TKM with respect to the work done by them, sometimes on their own or through their own subcontractors, so that we could allow that money to go to them, to meet with the subcontractors.
But I think you missed the point of Councilwoman Tasco, her point. It was a very deep and important point. While we're sitting here in Council and having hearings and you're back in your office building here, in California, Japan -- that's where you're from. That's great. We've talked. I like this. Can't we get a bank? Can't we pay these people and then work it out? Can't we trust them? Luis Cruz isn't going anywhere. That cute lady right there, she's not going anywhere. She's been around. She's worried about her mother in a senior citizen home. Let's have a heart. How about if we do this: 117 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 How about if we take your salary from KUD and pay her mother's bills up? (Applause.)
Why don't we do that? You don't want to do that. You'd be a fool to say that. You're not going to take my salary. I've got bills to pay. I work for this. You work. She worked. She did it. Let's pay her. Where's the money? Where's the money?
I have a quick question. In your negotiations, are the Eagles included with these negotiations, the mediation process?
As I informed Councilman Mariano's office, they have attended the sessions. They are not parties at this point.
They are not parties, but they have attended? 118 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912
What timetable are you on, if there is any? This can go on and on and on. It seems to me almost like England. Once they get something, they never, never give it up. They'll go and have meetings after meetings after meetings until it takes someone like the IRA to blow up a couple buildings and then they do something. This is the thing, if you're going to just procrastinate, it will never be solved.
This is the best part. The subs aren't a part of these meetings either, the guys that are owed the money. She's not in that meeting. Are you in that meeting? It's your money. It's your mother in the home. Give the lady her money.
The subs have been invited into the process by the mediator. A large number of them have agreed to participate in the process. They are in the process with the 119 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 mediator.
They're in the process with the mediator. Are there any subs here who can dispute that? Nobody invited you, Luis? I guess they don't know where Norris Square is. It's way left of Japan, Norris Square.
May I ask a question? You said that the Eagles are not in the meetings. Who is the dispute between? Is the dispute between TKM and KUD?
The present mediation which has been commenced is to resolve issues between KUD and TKM in the mediation process. What I will tell you is there are issues that go over the place.
Can I ask you a question, KUD? Have you been paid for the work done on the stadium? Have you received all of your money from the Eagles?
Is that in 120 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 dispute?
The amount that's due will be paid to the subcontractors for the work that's still yet -- to complete their contracts.
What's the base price of the contract? Let me finish. You're the contractor.
You're the development manager. The contract was between the Eagles and Kajima?
Then you pay TKM, and TKM pays the subcontractors. Now, you got your money to pay TKM?
Where are you 121 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 going to get that money from?
Now I'm starting to wonder who's really confused. We were confused. I think you're confused, and now I'm confused because you're the guy holding the money. Who's confused here? I think your client is confused.
Please. Mr. Biggs is trying to honor his statutory obligations with respect to the mediation process and --
And we're trying to honor Luis Cruz, and her bills that are due.
Councilman, we have spent, 122 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912 well, the better part of the last month --
And if your client had done his job we wouldn't be here today wasting everybody's time. Let's call it what it is. You're wasting our time because you're shucking and jiving for some money. There's no cameras here. I'm not playing to anybody. I don't do that. Let me tell you what's happening. You got money. You're holding it. You're holding the guy's money. In the neighborhood I came from, you hold my money too long, somebody is going to get cracked on the side of the head. Now, we can't really crack you on the side of the head, but we're going to beat you up in here. I told you before you came in here, don't bullshit us. Somebody is lying. Somebody is lying. What's going on?
The monies that we've received, which are part of the process that has been reviewed by PAID every month --
Do you owe her or Luis Cruz any of that money? 123 01/27/05 - PARKS - RES. 040912
Where is that money that you owe to Luis and that lady there?