that we were making were based upon, like, how do we stay in business? We found that this was
pretty much the maximum amount of operation that we could comfortably do with our staff.
So attention kind of turned to making the most of that.
Thank you. Prior to March of 2020, did you serve alcohol till 2 a.m.?
And did alcohol sales contribute to a, you know, a substantially percentage of the revenue?
Yeah, about the same proportion it does now, I would say.
As the same as it does now?
Probably not exactly the same.
OK, because when do you stop serving alcohol right now?
I'm sorry.
At what time do you stop serving alcohol right now?
Either 10 or 11 p.m.
So you're losing about three to four hours of alcohol service.
Is that correct right now?
Yeah, compared to the past, yes, as well as food service.
Okay, very good.
I have nothing else.
You have another witness?
Yes, may Mr. Holden be excused because he's got to get over to the restaurant.
Is that okay, Mr. Chairman?
And Vern, are that okay?
Yes, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.
All right, Jonathan Deutsch?
is this your last witness uh yes he is okay
mr deutz please unmute yourself hi could you state your name is spelled for the court reporter
please yes jonathan deutz j-o-n-a-t-h-a-n deutz d-e-u-t-s-c-h do you swear a firm to tell
the truth. The whole truth is nothing but the truth. I do. Proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I have your CV on the screen. It's exhibit three of the materials we provided. Is it reasonably
accurate in terms of your professional background? Yes. And please summarize your background relevant
to the testimony you're going to offer today. I'm a chef and professor of culinary arts in the
Department of Food and Hospitality Management at Drexel University. I'm a graduate of the
Culinary Institute of America, and I've worked in numerous restaurant and food service settings,
both in the U.S. and abroad, as a cook, chef, and manager. Among these experiences was a year
working in a restaurant in Japan, where I gained familiarity with izakaya operations and other
Japanese restaurant service styles. I earned my PhD in food studies and food management at New
York University. And as I mentioned, I'm currently a professor in food and hospitality management at
Drexel University. Among my duties there is supervising the food service practicum, which
has me in a variety of food service settings. And I'm a columnist for restaurant business and food
service director magazines. And you've testified before this board in the past as an expert,
correct? Correct. Yeah. And you were retained to conduct a review of the operations of the
restaurant known as Royal Sushi and Izakaya to evaluate its application for approval to include
a pickup service through a window on Fulton Street. Is that correct? Correct. Are you familiar
with the Royal Izakaya restaurant? Yes. Have you visited the restaurant? I visited many times as a
guest and fan of the restaurant. And then most recently on December 2nd, specifically to look at
the um takeout window and um current layout and current operations and uh in addition to your
In addition to your visits to the restaurant, what have you done to prepare for your testimony today?
visits to the restaurant what have you done to prepare for your testimony today uh
I visited, I interviewed Mr. Holden and also Mr. Frank to get their perspective on the operations, and I reviewed numerous documents.
And what information did you review?
I reviewed a letter from Councilmember Skwila regarding the continuance, the letter from the Queen Village Neighbors Association Zoning Committee, the original zoning and related permitting documents, the notice of refusal,
um the many support letters uh to council member squilla in support of the variance
um the the relevant codes uh that you provided um the emails that the exhibits that you showed
regarding the expense breakdowns and operating hour changes um i also reviewed uh mr anastasio's
exhibits and the letter uh from anastasio lot of the zoning board uh the qbna chat room that you
mentioned and showed as an exhibit, and also the letter from Gerber Accounting and Tax Services
that you showed as an exhibit. Did you prepare a written report of your assessment and conclusions
related to this matter, a copy of which is included as Exhibit 4 and which is up on the screen? Yes.
And based upon your review and analysis of the current conditions affecting Royal Ezekiah
and its operations, as well as the physical conditions related to the restaurant, do you
have an opinion whether this application for approval of takeout window service should be
granted by the board? Yes. And what's your opinion? My opinion is that the use of the takeout window
should be allowed. And explain your basis for your opinion. There are a number of reasons I think that
inform that opinion. One is that the current takeout situation through the front door or
getting someone's attention through the window and waiting for someone to come out with an order
is cumbersome, both for staff and for guests. In addition to that, the Queen Village Neighbors
Association cited congestion as a problem and a reason to oppose the window. But actually,
if anything, I think the current takeout structure without the use of the window would
exacerbate that congestion rather than alleviating it, which is the goal, because people have to
wait a number of minutes for those orders through either that South 2nd Street congested front
entrance or waiting for someone to come out after they are seen at the window, which isn't allowed
to open. So I think those, those are the kind of the first, first set of concerns. The, the takeout
area that has been, has been put in place is really optimal from a food safety and guest service
perspective. It's as, as others have mentioned, proximate to both the, the sushi area and the
hot kitchen. It has refrigeration. So from a food safety perspective and an efficiency perspective,
it really can take the pickup of a takeout order from a matter of minutes to a matter of seconds,
which multiplied over tens of orders per evening, representing, as Mr. Holden said,
a significant part of the revenue I think makes it more efficient for everyone and as I mentioned
would alleviate that congestion. Are you aware that when Royal Ezekiah received its initial
permit in 2013 it had a condition prohibiting the window on Fulton Street from opening? Yes.
And under current conditions is this prohibition still reasonable? I don't believe it is.
excuse me and why not um because royal izakaya is not a typical takeout restaurant or drive-through
um you know not not all restaurant takeout windows are are created equal so if if this were a pizza
place or a cheesesteak or water ice place it would be a different type of takeout window where
People would order at the counter, wait a few minutes while their order is being prepared, maybe eat nearby at picnic benches or on the street, maybe unfortunately litter around the neighborhood or use the receptacles provided by the restaurant.
or use the receptacles provided by the restaurant.
That's not.
That's not the structure of the takeout process here at Royal Sushi and Izakaya.
So as Mr. Holden mentioned, the vast majority of the orders are prepaid and ordered online,
and guests are given a time window to pick up that order.
Mr. Mattione, we had that testimony already. He's just repeating what the person before him said. So maybe we could just focus a little bit more about the work.
Let me move on a little bit then, Mr. Chairman. And I guess, let me move down a little bit, Mr. Chairman.
uh so is we've there's been testimony that they cannot have outdoor seating uh um john so is
allowing the fulton street in the window to operate a viable and reasonable alternative
to providing the prohibited outdoor seating yes and why is that well because um the outdoor
seating is not allowed after the end of this month, based on the emergency order, that will
be a way for the restaurant to capture revenue and also to accommodate diners who are not
comfortable eating inside. Let me skip down a little bit. Taking into consideration your
knowledge of changed circumstances since the pandemic and of dramatic increases in food and
wages, even with a drastic reduction in operating hours, is it reasonable to prohibit the use of
the Fulton Street window for pickup? No. And why not? As was previously mentioned,
there is a labor shortage that is preventing many restaurants from operating their full
complement of hours. There's a monthly survey that the National Restaurant Association conducts,
And their most recent data found that 60% of restaurants reduced hours and 38% closed on days that they had previously been open.
So, and while many of us think of the pandemic as being over, as we're seeing from current cases, and also from comments from the letters, many people don't feel comfortable in a restaurant and are relying on takeout to have those experiences.
So moving on a little bit. Trying to have pickup delivery, I'm sorry, pickup or takeout through the front door. And I've got some photos up that I believe you took. What problems does this create? Why doesn't this work?
Well, first of all, it defeats the purpose if someone is trying to avoid indoor dining for their health and safety or the safety of their family.
Coming into a crowded restaurant, and this was the Friday, December 2nd when I visited, you can see it's very busy, you know, doesn't solve that problem for them.
Further, you see about eight or 10 people in front of the door waiting for a table.
So, as I mentioned previously, it will take a few minutes or maybe longer for an additional guest in that throng of people to find a staff member, explain that they're there to pick up takeout,
then wait for their takeout to be carried to them from the opposite end of the restaurant
and then navigate that crowd to get back out to South 2nd Street or they'll be waiting on
South 2nd Street while someone comes out with their order. So I think this is, if anything,
going to exacerbate any perceived congestion rather than alleviating it.
and moving on i just want to pull up exhibit 12 briefly um again i know mr holton testified about
this but uh you see where the uh pickup window would be um is this really the only viable option
available for this kind of a pickup window at this restaurant i believe it is and why is that
um the front area in the picture you just showed does not have a host stand or any sort of
you know, waiting area like you might find it at a suburban chain restaurant where you have ample
space and that kind of model. That's very traditional with the izakaya format, which is
which is an informal drop-in type establishment and not a reservation type establishment.
an informal drop-in type establishment.
Also, there's no storage area in the front for those takeout containers.
The seating in the small, narrow restaurant goes right up to the front door.
So I don't see any other solution besides this really optimal takeout area that's been constructed.
True. So prior to the pandemic, did Royal Ezekiah patrons typically wait out out front of the building late at night, one in the morning, midnight, one in the morning?
Yes. And does that presently occur? No. Why not? Because of the reduced hours.
And I believe I asked that. Is it reasonable to expect Royal Ezekiah to be able to operate 63 hours a week as it did prior to the pandemic?
No. Why not?
It's, as I mentioned, there are staffing shortages, which is an industry-wide phenomenon, but exacerbated in Philly, one of the things that hasn't been mentioned is there's been a rise in crime in the last year or so, year or two, and many restaurant workers report not feeling safe going home after midnight.
And it's tough to find, you know, reliable transportation that late at night. And so, in addition to the quality of life concerns that Mr. Holden mentioned, almost every restaurant I talked to says we would love to be open more, whether that's for lunch or seven days or Tuesdays and so on.
Um, but it's, it's, um, remains a challenging environment to do that, uh, from a staffing
perspective. And did you review the reasons given by the QVNA zoning committee for opposing this
application? I did. And, and what were their reasons? Um, the, the primary reason was the, um,
concerns about pedestrian and vehicular congestion um i did see that that area is um congested
especially on a busy you know friday or saturday night i visited on a on a friday night prime time
you know deliberately to see it you know sort of at its uh at its worst potentially
maybe i'm wrong but i i understand his knowledge about restaurants but i i'm not sure about
trafficking outside of the restaurant i don't i don't know that i don't see where his testimony
is relevant i think i think it is relevant first of all he can testify about the patrons waiting
outside because he can and i think he can testify about the the pictures that he took when he was
there and at least explain the situation like the testimony about the people outside waiting
when he showed his photos of everybody waiting inside sure i'm just confused well no it's it's
there's there's different there's different testimony there mr chairman one is about
yeah and and all i'm saying is i i don't i don't think that what if you if he wants to talk about
the restaurant i don't know that he can comment on traffic outside the place and people i i just
don't i i don't i don't see the weight of his testimony about what's going on outside
all right that's fine mr mr chairman let me move on uh john and if you review the concerns
expressed by Mr. Anastasio and his submissions to the board? I have. And what were those concerns?
The main concern was that this takeout window, which Mr. Anastasio repeatedly refers to as a
McDonald's style takeout window, could, you know, have some sort of, you know, slippery slope where
it becomes, you know, a pizza place or a fast food place, and there will be all manner of people
sort of hanging out in front of the window waiting for their order.
And finally, do you have an opinion to a reasonable degree of professional certainty,
whether the current circumstances and conditions have created an unnecessary hardship sufficient
to justify this board in granting relief to Royal Sushi and Izakaya to remove the prohibition of
using Fulton Street window as a takeout window. Yes. And what's that opinion? It's my opinion
that refusing the variance requested by Royal Sushi and Izakaya will not be successful in
alleviating congestion, but would contribute to it while concurrently frustrating guests and staff
with this operation. Because of the inability to have outdoor seating, for the reasons we discussed,
coupled with the long and narrow restaurant, the location of the kitchen, and the lack of
and the lack of an indoor waiting area, there's an unnecessary hardship to the land that I think
an indoor waiting area, there's an unnecessary hardship to the land that I think just
justifies the granting of the requested variance to permit the use of the window on Fulton Street.
Thank you. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. Okay, any more witnesses?
I have no additional witnesses, Mr. Chairman. How many witnesses do you have?
Oh, just one. Okay, how long do you think it'll take?
uh between my argument and the witness maybe 20 minutes okay so i i think what i'm going to do is
have a resumptive hearing i'm going to continue this well mr chair i i wouldn't be against that
but the problem is is that the applicant continues to to operate in violation of the provisor i do
not operate in violation of the provisor so so what i'm going to do is i'm going to
hillary can we get this back as quick as possible so two things i mean i don't i don't see much
longer but what i don't want to do is hold the staff here any longer than we're here already
and we do need to have public testimony and i expect there will be significant public testimony
that's right um so two so two things one i think we should finish with this witness and have any
crossed and redirects um second the earliest resumption date we currently have right now
is um excuse me one moment um march 22nd at two o'clock mr chair we are we are i'm sorry as we
are for all our special sessions for january and february are already full um so that is the next
available date um that i have been given so i mean i really finished with this there's going
to be people who want to testify here there's going to be a lot of audience and i just i got
to be fair to the people that work at the zoning board i understand if you want to finish if you
want to finish the testimony with this person verne i'll cross mr chairman but why don't we
i have to object to a march hearing because my my clients and 20 families are living with this day
in and day out. And for them to have to suffer this for another three and a half months, it's
just, it's so I will just disagree with the characterization, Mr. Chairman. Okay. Okay.
Why don't you cross examine? Okay, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Deutsch, thank you for your time.
Your report indicated that the negative and adverse impacts of COVID, the circumstances and impacts were industry-wide.
Do you still believe that to be true?
Yes, I do.
Thank you.
And are you familiar with other Philadelphia restaurants in the immediate area?
Okay, good.
So you've heard of places like the Villa de Roma, Dante and Luigi's, and Ralph's.
Is that correct?
I have.