civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - December 14, 2022

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Dec 14, 20224h 42m

Yes, I do.

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Could you identify your client in a relationship to the property?

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Certainly.

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My client is the Penn Sports School of Dance, and they are the tenant at 2036 South 3rd Street.

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Okay.

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Our board secretary, Ishmael Shahid, has a few questions.

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Certainly.

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Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?

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Yes, I do.

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Did you email all the required documents within five days of this hearing?

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Yes, I did.

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Thank you. Please proceed to share your screen.

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Thank you very much.

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Okay.

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Okay, so we're here for 2036 to 38 South 3rd Street, which is the current home of the Penn Sports School of Dance.

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And this application is really a legalization application because my client has occupied the premises as we're operating in there since the middle of last year.

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My client saw that the property had a history of commercial zoning and believed that his use would fit right in with the zoning that was at the site previously.

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Unfortunately, the dance school is a different zoning category than the commercial that had been there before, personal services versus retail.

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So he was unaware that this use required a variance.

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And so we're here going through the process to legalize the school of dance that has been there.

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We have a single refusal for the personal services that are not permitted in the RSA 5 Zoning District.

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To orient the board, this is our property here, surrounded by a variety of uses at this corner.

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This is the structure. There's a church across the street.

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There's some commercial uses here, commercial uses here, and then residential as it goes into the neighborhoods and elsewhere along 3rd Street.

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give the board a sense of what the area looks like at this corner. These are photos from the

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various corners that were just reflected in that aerial view you saw a few moments ago.

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And photos of the zoning notices that were posted in the window of the property.

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We don't have floor plans because there's no changes to the interior of the space that are

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being proposed. But we do have some photos of what the space looks like. As the name would

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suggest, it is a dance studio. It has an open floor plan with mirrors and typical rails that

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you see along them. And it operates as a dance instruction and dance studio.

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These are photos just taken of different angles to give the board a sense of the space.

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uh from what we've heard from the community there are many people who uh utilize the space

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who live in the immediate area um and and generally have a positive experience with

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with the school um the biggest challenge that we encountered and particularly

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And the biggest challenge that we encountered, particularly through conversation at the RCO meeting, are the immediately adjacent neighbors next to us on Third Street who had some concern about the noise that was generated from the property.

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As the name suggests, a school of dance, they do play music and they do have evening classes.

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And the concern from those near neighbors was the noise that was coming through.

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We took those concerns seriously. My clients have been talking to the near neighbors before I got involved while they were operating the School of Dance and then after the zoning committee meeting.

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And they did a number of things to try and mitigate the noise issues.

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And these photos that I'm showing you, which my client will be able to speak more about when he testifies, are the installation of an additional wall to provide sound attenuation for the property.

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This is not a structural wall. It's not a framing wall for a room.

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It's really just an additional wall that's going to go up against the party wall to try and prevent noise from coming through.

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Also, as you can see, additional insulation was installed along that wall, again, to try and alleviate these noise concerns.

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As I mentioned, the property had a history of commercial use.

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This is a zoning permit, I believe, from 1963 that's showing a retail synthetic and dry cleaning business was occupying it there.

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The last prior use was a restaurant, and our understanding is the property has been in some form of commercial use since that time.

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These are some of the products that my client installed to try and attenuate the noise.

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This is specifically fire and soundproof insulation.

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that was shown on the photo, and they used a specific form of drywall that is supposed to

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have additional sound attenuation. Important for the board to understand, we took the noise

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concerns that the neighbors had very seriously, and Air Management Services has been out a number

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of times to look at the property and see what was going on in terms of noise. We have several reports

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from air management services that are within the packet that we submitted to the board.

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And as you can see, there were no violations observed during a visit in September of 22.

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There were no violations observed in October 11th of 22.

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This one was the inspector arrived while class was in progress, and they did not hear music

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or noise from outside the facility on Third Street or Snyder Avenue.

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This is now September of 22.

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Again, no violation observed.

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And then this final one, again, October of 22, no violation was observed.

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This one, the studio was not open when air management services arrived.

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I include all these just to give the board a sense that although you'll likely hear from your neighbors that have an issue with the sound,

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And we've done everything we can do to try and attenuate that, including having the city's air management service come out and specifically look for noise.

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So we think that we've done as much as we can do to abate that concern.

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Looking at the Civic Association's letter, which I'm sure you received, their position of opposition is really based solely on the noise issues.

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um they they acknowledge it's been used previously as a commercial storefront

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uh and that there was a petition that we provided that was signed by many people

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uh but that the rco was really focused on the couple who lives immediately next door

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and was having noise concerns um so they wrote a lengthy letter i'm sure that the board can can

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read it um but that that was the long and short of it uh that we and you know i told the rco about

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the various soundproofing efforts that we made. They were aware that air management services came

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out. They note in their letter that they were aware that air management services came out,

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but without more information and without the near neighbors acknowledging that the sound was

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abated, the RCO could not change their position. As you can see, again, they conclude that they

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are compelled. They do acknowledge the good faith efforts to address the concerns.

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And so we're really, what I'm saying is doing the best we can to address the concerns, but we understand that the RCO is still in opposition based on the concerns of those mere neighbors.

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With that, I'd like to ask Robert Thiel to raise his virtual hand.

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I'm going to ask him to adopt my testimony and also share some brief additional context for the board.

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I'm going to ask him to adopt my testimony and also share some brief additional context for the board.

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Mr. Thiel, please unmute yourself.

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Could you state your name and spell it, please, for the court reporter?

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Sure. Robert Thiel, R-O-B-E-R-T-T-H-E-I-L.

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Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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Yes.

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Proceed, counsel.

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Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Robert, did you have a chance to hear my presentation this afternoon?

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Yes.

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Do you adopt my statements as true, correct, and your own if you've been given the opportunity to more fully testify?

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Yes.

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Thank you.

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Can you very briefly just describe for the board the sound attenuation efforts you made at the property?

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Sure.

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We consulted with a couple.

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I work in the housing industry.

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My company does senior housing.

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And so I consulted with contractors that we use for materials and how to kind of build that wall so that it would have a better impact on getting rid of that sound from transmitting through.

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So even to the point that you can't tell from the picture, but the wall is actually stepped off two inches to allow for some air.

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As we understand it, air is another great insulator as well.

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And all the products we use are above the standard products that you would use for any of these activities.

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The sheet, the insulation is called safe and sound.

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so it absorbs all that down there's also a fiery tone as well as well as the sheetrock again above

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and beyond what typical costs it's four times they call it a typical drywall it's three times heavier

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so we took everything we could possibly do to kind of help mitigate the sound we bought sound

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loose acoustic caulk as well caulked around all the seams caulked around every joint from the floor

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all the way up to the ceiling in between the joices our our structure is only one story the

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The next door is two, so we kind of went all the way up to the roof in between the jury

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cities, talking on every joist, talking on everywhere where there's an open spot, talked

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over every scene, went through.

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It was a long while to do that, too, because we had to pull some down.

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We actually had to buy new mirrors because the old mirrors were going to come off, so

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it was of no minor cause to kind of take this on, and we accept responsibility for that

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and take the complaint seriously with the neighbor, and we continue to do that.

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Every time there is a complaint, we acknowledge it and make adjustments that we're continuing

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to do that and the last thing we want is to have the neighbor that does not want us here we've been

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in the area for 35 years we have 200 kids in our school right now every year we have an annual show

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we do we do toy drives we do 10 good drives we do a lot of good in this neighborhood and as you

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can see penn's boarding knowledge is that in the letter as well we had a petition signed by a ton

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of people and it was we tried to keep it local but so many of our parents who was kids with a

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walking distance but they don't live on third or slatter avenue wanted to sign it too because they

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supported as well so um we're trying to do everything we can we will continue to take steps

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to do that um in the new year we were even discussing pulling down the drop ceiling and

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putting that soundproof insulation in the ceiling as well to try to help again further mitigate and

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help lessen any kind of disturbance that would happen but we always respond we always make

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adjustments we always do we have to do to kind of help mitigate that sound and bob uh how long

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long has the Penn Sports School of Dance been in business? Over 39 years. 39 years. And have you

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had any issues with neighbor concerns or noise issues prior to this? Never. And I know Penn

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Sports letter makes, we just moved here a year and a half ago because our previous building,

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which is three blocks north, was sold. And Penn Sports makes reference in their letter that it

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was a freestanding building. It wasn't. It was just like this. One side of our building was up

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against the neighbor and we never had any issues and they're still living they didn't honestly

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they don't want us to leave because they liked having the kids around they liked having that

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occupied um studio there so okay thank you uh mr chair we don't have anything else but

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let me mr klein um if you know did air management offer their services to the to the neighbors

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they did their house and try to they they they did mr chair to my understanding the neighbors

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have declined to give air management services

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access to their home.

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All right, thank you.

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Questions from the board?

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No, Mr. Chairman.

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No, Mr. Chairman.

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All right, questions or comments

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from the virtual audience?

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I see no hands, Chair.

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Sorry, Chair.

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We got a few that just popped up.

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Sure, okay, fine.

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We're gonna go to Richard, last name ending in C.

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Okay.

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Hi, sir. Could you state your name and spell for the court reporter?

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Richard?

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Richard?

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I'm sorry.

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What's your last name?

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NNNC. Please unmute yourself.

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Okay, we can move on to Stephanie if you'd like, Chair.

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Okay, please. Let's Stephanie.

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Stephanie, could you state your name and spell for the court reporter?

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Stephanie, could you state your name and spell for the court reporter?

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Sure. Stephanie, S-C-E-P-H-A-N-I-E, coin, C-O-Y-N-A.

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Sure.

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Stephanie.

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Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Are you a neighbor?

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I am the neighbor. I am the neighbor that's attached to the wall.

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Okay. All right. I just wanted to say, please proceed.

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Okay. So I'm actually here with Richard, who is my spouse.

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house. We know that they have tried to do things, but the things that they have done

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have only amplified the noise. It's nightly. It's six days a week, sometimes seven, because

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they outsource the building to other people. It's been a year and a half. It's just been

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20 years. It's been 20 years we've been in this home. All the previous businesses were

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no noise no issues no complaints uh this has been since day one with this with this place um

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it's just and we have not declined air management air management has told us numerous times that

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they will not come in the house to do the testing due to covid and whatever other reasons they have

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provided um when they test the testing you don't hear it outside you hear it in in my home so when

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they stand outside the outside on the opposite street they don't they're not going to hear

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anything it's specifically in my home not the noises the whole it's not just in one room it's

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upstairs downstairs the basement so that's our issue okay all right so so let me answer this

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you're saying that all that work that i i saw pictures of did no good it did no good it amplified

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it amplified the noise and they there's jumping from the classes that shakes the home

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i mean it's it's a lot a lot of issues okay and we don't even know who like that we don't know

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if they got a qualified person to do the work if there was permits if there was anything so which

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just right i know i'm just saying i we saw a lot on the on the uh on the pictures of what looked

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to me to be things that would lessen the noise right they only did one wall the wall that's

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attached to our house so it amplified all the rest of the building and and our home

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all right mr chairman mr chairman yes yes sir i have a question have the owner have the owner ever

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got a sound report

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for their property?

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A private agency?

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Like a home

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inspection? The city did it,

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Thomas.

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She said the city didn't do it, I think.

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Well, she's saying the city

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didn't want to come to hers, but I'm saying

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the city was in the other property.

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Oh, her property. Okay. Thank you.

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Yeah, so I do have to make

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