Yeah. So a lack of delay in getting to methadone for somebody who wants to go somewhere where they're going to get full treatment doses of methadone without delay, and we can accomplish that. They have to end up in a facility in a timely manner to start getting treatment doses. So even in our Wellness Court initiative, you know, on the day that they're brought in and then evaluated in Wellness Court and then maybe get a dose of methadone when they finally get to a facility, it might be after anyone who can actually give them treatment that day has gone home. And they're working really hard, diligently to make that whole process be smaller and shorter and shorter and shorter, but we really have to ensure that there's a provider at the end of that where the patient really ultimately ends up that can treat them on that day for however much they need over the next few hours. A lot of these facilities don't have clinicians overnight, and at 4 o'clock things end and you have to wait until the next morning which is eternity, and people leave.
Right. But if you could at least get them that medicine and you could then hopefully start -- it's not going to be a perfect world, right. And I don't think we're looking for perfection. I think we're hearing more and more of the changes, the different drugs that are being used. And we talked about, you know, I mean how hard it is to detox and it may change again in six months, right. So we're going to have to have a process in place where we could address that. And it seems like Philadelphia seems to be at the forefront of these new experimental drugs that are out there so we have to be able to be nimble and then to be able to adjust. And if we're strict on certain things and you don't have the ability to adjust, we're going to hurt ourselves in the long run. So I think trying to then working with our Health Department and the police and everybody else who's involved and to be as nimble as possible, as quick as possible and to be as successful as possible to get people to the services that they need, because each individual assessment is going to tell you something different once the professionals do that assessment. So we just want to be as helpful. So I mean, any information you could give us that we could be helpful, working with the Administration, our Health Department and everybody else I think is what we're really looking forward to get out of this hearing. And I think what you've said, what all of you have said so far has been amazingly helpful.
Thank you for bringing that up and really highlighting the medication because it is the only evidence-based treatment for opiate use disorder and it's the safest treatment. Abstinence-based treatment does not work for opiate use disorder and it's very dangerous. So I really appreciate you bringing it up and highlighting the importance of medication.
And I think going back to what Lozada said, like, for the neighborhood too, right. And I think with 265 East Lehigh we're off to a good start, but there are other providers with -- because a lot of people in Philadelphia they have Philadelphia insurance but there is often sometimes people that don't and they have out-of-county funding. So I think it is kind of important to take a look at what each program offers in the surrounding counties and in Philadelphia. So we know what we offer, right. Merakey knows what they offer, the Health Department, but I think it's important to capture and let each person know so that we can utilize each other and everybody supports to figure out what's best for people.
And we have mentioned that as part of the dashboard, right, is having the counties participate in that dashboard so that we could work with them and their insurance providers there, right. And so, that's hopefully -- I mean, I think we heard from Health that by the end of the summer there'll be an RFP out and hopefully that will be able to consolidate that and make it even better for you guys to be able to use too. I think that -- to me, that dashboard is going to be key and make a big difference in helping outreach workers and others to understand, like you said, there's beds available but how do you get them there, right. Because we always heard that before and we didn't believe it at first. They were like, oh, there's plenty of beds and then we didn't believe it until they started showing us the numbers. But the problem is getting to those beds, right, or getting to whatever the assessed value of that person's needs are, getting them to the proper place was always the challenge. So thank you.
Yeah, for sure. I know that we asked DBHIDS and Office of Homeless Services and others. Penn, how do you all work with those service providers? Is there continued conversation, information sharing to be able to improve or better build your outreach process in the Kensington Harrowgate community or do you experience challenges because you are a hospital entity as opposed to a city department?
Thank you for asking that. And as I was sitting here, I was just thinking one of the ways that the warm line is so effective is because we do work with so many providers and the outside counties we provide services for them too, so I think the cohesive outreach and really using our resources. We do vetting because we have to refer patients that call the warm line to their longitudinal-care providers. So we go to the treatment centers. We host them at our office. We are on the ground with figuring out best fits for patients. And some of them are here that we work with, inpatient treatment centers, to make things happen. When the clock is ticking and somebody's asking for help, we collaborate with everyone that we can to provide all of the resources available in the city.
My last question before I recognize Councilmember Harrity: Does Penn use Vivitrol as an option for continuing to stabilize or have someone successfully continue to get through their journey? I hear about Vivitrol all the time, but I never hear anybody that actually uses Vivitrol, right. We hear about Suboxone and we hear about methadone, but everybody says to me we need to start looking at Vivitrol. And if we're talking -- if that is what the new thing is or the others are using when we're talking about making bold decisions, why are we -- and if people are looking to us to lead, then why are we not having that conversation on the ground? Why is Philadelphia not saying this needs to be considered as an option or this should be a part of our list of things that we should be connecting people to?
So without getting too technical, Vivitrol is a long-acting Naloxone. It lasts a month. It's very effective ironically for alcohol use disorder and is a tremendous asset and underutilized in that management. At the VA if you get admitted for alcohol withdrawal, they actually give you Vivitrol on the way in to just make that treatment already on board.
So it would be more to treat alcoholism and not an opioid?
For an opioid, an opioid, you've heard a lot about why people don't want Naloxone. Naltrexone is a long- acting Naloxone. Vivitrol is Naltrexone. And so, it prevents -- it creates opioid withdrawal so we can't give it to people who have any opioid in their system for seven days. And so, we never really bring people in early recovery off of opioids because we put them on buprenorphine, Suboxone or methadone. So those are all opioid agonists. If you gave somebody Vivitrol after any of those medications, they'd be incredibly sick so you need a period of basically weeks to months off of opioids in order to get on Vivitrol. And some people do. They may have Suboxone for several months, then they wean themselves off Suboxone and then they want to be on something still like Vivitrol. But there's many steps to get there. It's a very long journey and it's really not a first line treatment for opioid use disorder, but it is an excellent treatment for alcohol use disorder.
Thank you for clearing that up. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Jim Harrity.
Thank you for coming in. Just a shout-out. Penn, you guys have been doing the recovery thing for a long time. I got sober the first time in the '80s. The first place I went to rehab was Penn 40th and Market, outpatient program for alcohol. Very familiar with the Vivitrol and the differences. I'm actually a fan of that because -- not for the alcohol, I didn't need it. I was able to do it without it. It wasn't around when I first got sober. But part of the reason why the people out on the street and -- Diamond, you would know -- is because the methadone and the Suboxone still gives you kind of a high. Vivitrol doesn't give you any of that. And I agree, I believe that Suboxone and methadone have their place, but I also believe that if we're really going for it, we need to wean off of that and onto Vivitrol if we're actually talking about long-term recovery. I know a lot of people that are actually on it, long-term recovery people that have gone on it that were on the other for years and they actually rave about it, so it's very optimistic. And, Diamond, three years, congratulations. I know what that means. As we say, keep coming back. It works if you work it. I have 14. August I'll celebrate 15. (Applause.)
I don't actually keep track of my time anymore. It's actually more of my wife's anniversary than it actually is mine. That was the day she got sanity into her life. So I get it. And I also get why the gentleman who went out his way for you also did that. And I'm sure you know why too because the 12 step tells us we have no choice. I don't have a choice. It's compulsory. I must help the other struggling addict. Otherwise I'm going to lose him. And I went down that road before and it wasn't pleasant. It cost me another years of my life when most of mine -- my story was a little different. I got sober before I turned 17. And I did to 6 without drinking. And then at 26 I 7 lost my first child. And being a 8 man, we didn't talk to anybody. We 9 put it down deep somewhere and that 10 trauma destroyed me. I was suffering from post-traumatic stress, severe depression and I self-medicated. Now, it took two years before I actually self-medicated after losing my son. I only always say I had 9 years, but I actually had 12. But because I was a dry drunk for two of those years and being in recovery, you know what that term means, which means I stopped doing what was most important, going to meetings and helping the other alcoholic or addict. So I get that, you know, that's what he was trying to do for you, that's what you're trying to do for others and that's what I'm trying to do. But I also know from taking the steps of that program that, yes, I have to think about that other addict, right. But for me, my list of amends are many, 11 years and I'm still running into 12 people I got to forgive because 13 they help hurt me or I hurt them, 14 it goes both ways, because I can't carry that around with me. So I say that to say that we all have to realize that there is a happy medium. All of us up here want nothing more than to help everybody out there. If we can take them all, I will take them all. You understand, because that's what I'm supposed to do. But it drives me crazy when people don't get that there are kids and seniors and neighbors and residents that don't have this problem. This isn't their problem. This is our problem, okay. And for so long, it is their problem. It is their trauma just like it's our trauma. Trauma begets trauma, right. So I'd like to know from you how do we come to that happy medium? How do we help our brothers and sisters who are struggling out there and how do we make life for these people that have it hard already without having someone else's trauma forced on them? Because again, I don't want to have to make another amends to a whole neighborhood. You understand so please help us to understand. How do we do that? You guys are the professionals. You know what's going on, right. How do we have that happy medium?
First, thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm honored to have witnessed that so thank you. I'm on your timeline with my recovery around the same time. I have 9 years. But we all owe amends to 10 the Kensington community. I mean, 11 let's be honest. We all owe, 12 right. 13 I'd really love to know 14 what the community -- like, what 15 are their needs? Like, how do they 16 see outreach working for the people? Like you said, they are compassionate. They want the people to get help --
You're the first one I've ever heard say that. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
No, I appreciate it. We have learned at Penn. We have a community advisory board who we've really looked to for how we do our work and I'd love to hear your feedback. I mean, you're there, you're doing the work for the residents, so you tell us how it works.
I'm sorry. You got to understand too like I had said I get it because I'm there. But those people, they don't get it. You know why? Because we're out there giving these people everything, right. That's what they're saying. Well, I know, you know they need everything, but so do my neighbors. They sit and watch people giving out food when kids don't have food in my neighborhood. There's got to be a happy medium. Councilwoman Lozada, God forbid, she did a food giveaway for the residents of Kensington and people jumped on her saying that she didn't give a shit. She's willing to give out food, but she wants to give out food to who she wants to give out food. That's not --
I totally agree. I have children and wouldn't want my children to experience what the children are experiencing. I agree. So I don't have the answer for how we can do -- but we can do better. I know that we can, but I'd really like to hear from you and the community about how we can do that. I'd like to have personally resources available for the community at 265 Lehigh. We talked about putting a primary care office upstairs and why shouldn't the community benefit from those resources just like the people that are struggling. So again, I'd just like to hear from the community.
I think it's important to recognize that this is the first time that a provider or anyone asked tell us what the community wants. And I think that that is absolutely sad, that this is the first time that anyone says what do they need, what do they want? And they want something very simple: Quality of life. They want quality of life. They want you to be able to do your outreach jobs, but they don't want you to do it in a way that impacts their quality of life. This has been happening in Kensington for a really long time, right. And people are like, we need to make sure that or the people of Kensington have to be more compassionate and they have to be more empathetic and they have to be more understanding. But for the love of Jesus, for how much time, how long? And I asked DBHIDS this earlier, right. How many times or for how long does one say this engagement or this outreach, this number, what is that magic number, right, that one then says or one determines is enough for this individual who again will -- and I will say it a thousand times, this is enough for this individual to have received this number of engagements because this amount of times is now impacting negatively this entire community, right. And, yes, they're both equally as important. But if we don't do something right now, if we're not bold -- using Councilmember Ahmad's phrase from earlier, if we are not bold and we don't do something now, we are going to continue to lose young people to mental health disorder, to substance abuse disorder, to DHS, to our prison systems. We have talked to people who have said I'm here today because it's all I know, because it's all I've seen, because this is normal to me. And so, how do we do outreach in a way that is effective but also responsible, right? I want to thank you as well, right, because it needs to happen more often. People need to understand that that person who's living unsheltered should not be prioritized over the lives of the individuals who are just trying to live because they have been compassionate, because they have been empathetic, because they have been understanding and willing, and what that has gotten them is a community that continues to go downhill, right. I represent three of the five most dangerous districts in the city of Philadelphia. I represent the schools that are amongst the lowest-performing schools when compared to other schools in the city of Philadelphia. Why? Because teachers are afraid to come. Because teachers are afraid to stay. Because all of those resources that are made available in other spaces that would allow children to thrive and succeed and have opportunities don't come because of what we are experiencing in our communities. I have people who have generationally lived in neighborhoods that move away and leave their entire history, their identity, their family culture because of what has happened in the name of outreach and time reduction and substance abuse disorder and mental health. It is mind-blowing to me that we continue to not be able to provide what does bold look like, right. What does responsible outreach look like in the neighborhood, right. We need the Penn, Temple, Jeffersons to say to us this is what bold looks like. This is what leading this crisis looks like. These individuals are sick and belong in this space, not on a sidewalk, not on the concrete, right, not losing body parts. We have to think about outreach that provides those wraparound services that will respond right now to the 360-something people that are there now because we're coming into summer and history has taught us that in the summertime those numbers continue to go up, right. And we have said to a community we're going to respond, and you're not going to have to deal with all of these things that we've continued to fail them in responding because we have not come together to say we're making bold moves.
Instead we have people that will dare to criticize Madam Mayor Parker and her Administration for opening up something as a Wellness Court, because we said to her, Madam Mayor, we need somewhere to bring them into, we need an entry point. We need somewhere that we can do outreach and bring these people into a system that will give them these opportunities, that will provide them these wraparound services. Madam Mayor, we need somewhere to take the when they're done this detox process. They're not ready to live. They're not ready to be responsible for themselves. They've said to us we can't deal with life after just 30, 60, 90 days. We need somewhere to go. She created Riverview and we're still criticizing her. So we're looking to the professionals. We're looking to the outreach workers that are out there every day that say this entry point is working, this exit point is working but this is what we're missing in the middle. And no one has been able to come before this committee or a budget hearing process to say this is what we need in the middle to respond because we want to be responsible and respectful to the residents, because this is what the residents have said to us they need. And if you guys are out there doing this outreach every day, you would be telling us what the residents need, right. And so, I'm grateful that you asked, but I'm also puzzled that no one still knows what it is the residents need when all they need is quality of life.
So my question I think to you is how do we do outreach for both the people that are suffering and for the community? Why don't we do targeted outreach for them, like provide resources that will help the community in addition to the resources and the outreach that we know already meeting the people that are suffering.
So I think that part of why coordinated mobile services was born was because when I got here in November of 2022, I went to cover Councilmember Squilla at a meeting in one of his groups and they said, we want mobile service providers to do outreach but they can't do it on my step, right. And so, we started to meet with mobile service provider groups and said coordinate yourselves, organize yourselves. Outreach workers, get in this room, have a conversation, figure out how you create a process that works for you all. And it became about who was going to get to a space first and who was going to claim that space as opposed to, hey, residents, we know that we're creating a problem here, that our process is creating a problem here, what do you need, how do we better coordinate in order for you to have quality of life and still provide this service. So I think that what we need is more of that. We need more coordinated spaces, which as an Administration, as a legislative body we are talking about creating, but we need you all to also think about what are some of those bold initiatives or processes that we can put in place that will allow you to do your work in a coordinated space while also supporting residents, right. And we don't want our children to be exposed to all of these things that we say we want to prevent them from being exposed to so that in the future, they could be tomorrow's leaders.
Yeah. When I was younger, I was exposed to substance use at a young age by both of my parents. And I think from being around it and not having an escape, it played a lot of, you know, it was all I knew, like you said, right. It was all I knew. So I followed suit. And I think that it is really important. And I'm just going to bring this back. Last year Merakey had a Halloween party for the kids in Kensington, just for the kids and parents of Kensington, nobody else. We blocked off the whole road and it was the most beautiful thing watching kids be kids. We swept the streets. We got rid of all the debris. We had these parties every year, and it was amazing watching the kids run around with their families and they're just getting their face painted. They're picking up candy. They're doing things kids are supposed to do. Those are things that they can't typically do and that's sad. And I don't want to ever deny safe space for residents, ever. And part of my universal amends that I have to make is to try to eliminate the issue in any way that I possibly can. And Nicole is right, like maybe we should as a whole ask the community what do you need from us, right, because we're not just in it for one reason. We want to help the community at large, right. And what we think is, you know, when we're introducing long-acting injectables and low-barrier buprenorphine, we're thinking that we're helping, right, the community because we're helping the people in the community that are suffering with substance use. And I do think that having programs for children to do, you know, more activities like outside of the household would be amazing. It would be amazing. I wish I had that as a kid. If I was able to see something else at a younger age, you know, I probably would have been a lot better. But Nicole's absolutely right asking the community what do you need from us. Other than not providing services on your front step, what is it that bothers you and how can we fix that.
And providing resources for the community. We need to be doing more for the children and the community should have been asked. And you I'm sure have asked the community what your needs are. It's embarrassing that providers haven't yet to ask the community how we can bring more resources for the community members. It's embarrassing that we're here in 2025 and that hasn't been a huge part of the conversation. We should have been as outreach providers bringing resources to the community who don't suffer with substance use disorder in addition to those that do. And I'm sorry for that as a provider.
I can tell you doctors' offices have left my community, banks have left my community, retail stores, anchor stores have left my community on top of all of those other things, right. And so, you all have access. You want to think about what would work in my community. Think about those things that you have access to that have gone away from our community as a result of what we've allowed to happen there. And I'm going to start with medical services, right. Pediatric, geriatric, mom services, all of those things are things that I think you all can be helpful in because that is what is missing in my community. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Jimmy Harrity -- I'm sorry. Dr. Ahmad first and then --
Let me just publicly affirm my respect and love for this woman here because she has really crystallized what we are overlooking and dancing around. And I want to commend this young woman, you know. Sorry, what's your name, Diamond?
Congratulations and for being willing to sit here and listen to where the gaps are, right. You know, you ask what does the community need. The community does not need people with order in their community. That is what we need. I don't know how else to say this. They don't want to see people with needles hanging out their arms, keeling over and they have to walk over there -- they're defecating, doing all kinds of things right on their doorstep. Forget the mobile providers. That is what -- I don't know how you're asking that question. The question is we want what we have in Chestnut Hill. Would you ever see this in Chestnut Hill? In one minute you would be driven out. Every one of you would be driven out of there. If we can have that in Chestnut Hill which is a part of Philadelphia, then don't ask us what the community needs because the community needs very clear, clean, safe environment for the children to go out to have all the services, to have the banks, to have the doctor's office, to have grocery stores, to have schools that function. How are you asking us what does the community need. You should know that. You know what community you live in. What needs do you have. So while we have enormous compassion for people with substance use disorder, I want to ask someone who's here who has gone through this what is the personal responsibility because we do a lot of agency for saying they're not ready to go and we're listening to them then. If they have agency to make that decision, where is their agency to know how they're harming everybody else? I want to understand how do we make that distinction. You have agency to say no to something, but you don't have agency to know what you're doing, sitting in these neighborhoods and doing all this. Where's that point? I have no 23 conversation about that. It's always about, oh, we're going to give all these things. How many resources we're giving where we have people with diabetes and they're losing their limbs and losing retinopathy and all of these things. Those resources could go a lot of different ways. We have a system where children are getting killed in Department of Human Services processes. We could put a lot of more money there, but we're putting money here. The Mayor has put in in six months a resource. That money could have been used elsewhere. We have housing issues. So think about the amount of resources being used that our tax dollars are going and yet people have the right to say that they don't want this on our door step. That's what you're asking us to do. You have to come up with a solution, not us. You give treatment, you are out in the space. You have to come up with a solution that says how do you deal with people who are very sick and who need to not be on anybody's doorstep anywhere. You have to create that opportunity. That means removing them. Yes, that does. That means putting them in a space where they can then decide whether they want treatment or not, but not in your public just walking around and allowing these drug dealers to prey on them. So I have not heard one of you say that they need to be removed. When we have somebody who's hurting community, we have a law enforcement system where somebody comes and murders someone, we remove them from society. We have them held somewhere else until they're ready to re-enter society. And you're telling me there's no 3 solution that any of you can come up with that says what do you do with people who are hurting other people because they are hurting other people, not just themselves. And I have not heard anybody say that there's a responsibility of each of us, individuals, to society. And when you're not able to uphold that, there needs to be a place for you. And so, we don't want that to be prison with no medical resources, right.
But you cannot just sit and say I'm going to come five times, to have these workers outreach coming five times, six times, and you still say no and I'm going to hang out on somebody's doorstep and do this. How in this civilized society are we allowing this? I want to really understand. And people will say, oh, how cruel, how horrible. But when somebody hurts -- when you have a person hurting a child, we put them away. These people are hurting people, including themselves and we are not willing to address that. I am finding our society is not willing to address that. You need a space and the Mayor has created a space, but that space needs you to first be detoxed and then transition. We need another space where you actually do the detox you actually get to so you can have long-term care. I don't know why all of you involved people have not thought about that, about how do you make the Chestnut Hill Kensington -- Kensington Hill. I would like all of you to answer that. You should never ask what the community needs because that's your job. If you're going into the community to treat X, then you know that you're in a context, so you should have found out already what a community needs. I'm just outraged that we're sitting here and doing all this for a segment of society that is hurting everybody else and there's zero compassion for that. And people are still saying, oh, but we should ask. What? How is this okay when you're spending millions of dollars on this issue and yet we're allowing them to infect Kensington. It is an infection. They have an infection and they're infecting us. People don't like straight talk, but I want all of you to be accountable who are in this process to say there's a part of the equation that's not balanced. You're missing a whole set of variables in that equation that would make it a balanced equation. It is not. It is lopsided. So I want all of you to come back to us, all of you to come back to us and say, this is the plan to make sure no child in Kensington has to ever watch somebody keeling over with a needle in their arm. I never want any child to have to see that. You just told us if your environment would have been different you probably wouldn't have gone this way, right. So how are we going to create that environment for everybody to thrive. You have to come up with a solution and we're here ready to support you, work with you. But you're the providers, you're the people and you know the community who's using. You have to have conversations with them that you have a responsibility that you cannot just willy-nilly do this on somebody's doorstep. Everybody's a human being. We're acknowledging them as human beings. They have a human responsibility and we need to ask them that. We need to ask where is your sense of accountability. How are we just, you know, papering over that and saying you're exempt from being accountable. No one is exempt from being accountable. If somebody commits a crime, we have a law enforcement system for that. How come there's an exemption here is what I don't understand. If it's an illness, we'll treat it. But you cannot be in -- you cannot be in regular communities until you're ready to be a contributing member of society. That's what I'm looking for. That's the solution we need. And I need all of you to tell us that, how do we do it in a humane manner where they're scared and they come out of it as members of society we welcome back. We need to do that. And you guys need to be tasked with that. You cannot just say we're going to run this program and this program and this program and then there's no 14 connection to what the outcome is. So I'll stop. Thank you for listening.
Thank you,. Dr Ahmad. I think Dr. Ahmad said -- I said quality of life, but that's exactly what I was trying to say, right. And I think that as outreach workers, as departments, as providers, at some point we do need to hold ourselves accountable, right, and just figure out -- and I've asked every single person that has worked with me on different pieces of legislation that has been challenging and controversial, right, I've asked them how do we legislate or how do we provide services in a way that will respond to how I want my children and my family to live, right. How do we create a community like the one that I live in or that you live in for the residents of Kensington Harrowgate, right, because they have been empathetic, compassionate and all of those things for a really long time and they just want everything that Councilmember Ahmad just mentioned. That's all they want. It's very simple. Because if we get that, then we will have teachers who are certified to come into our neighborhoods. We will have those businesses that left back in our community. We will have banks and doctors' offices and cafés and baristas and all of these things back in our community, right, because we will become a community of choice once again, right. Chair recognizes Councilmember Jimmy Harrity.
I think you can see this is a group that cares, you know. And, Diamond, I want to tell you this is nothing on you. This ain't your stuff, you know what I'm saying, because I get it and I know. This shit, I take it home with me too. You don't take this home. We're just trying to get to the root of the thing. And God bless you. You are a perfect example of what can happen, right, so we're just trying to get to that. And you opening yourself up, I'm open about my recovery. That's how we help people, right.
I've waited on you before at a deli in Center City and we've talked about it before.
Right. You know, for us this is just working it out. But what we're trying to say is a lot of times people always go to, well, this has been going on in Kensington for a long, long time. It has not. Kensington has always been a low-income neighborhood, a neighborhood of different communities. It's gone from one different ethnic group to another ethnic group to another ethnic group, but it was always a community. When I got there 18 years ago, and today is actually my anniversary with my wife Marnie, when I got there years ago, I 4 was actually still in my addiction 5 and I would go out and hang out in 6 that neighborhood and I could do 7 that. I could go to the bar. I 8 could go walk down the street, go 9 buy a pair of sneakers. I could go 10 over there. This hasn't been going 11 on forever. 12 Have we always been a 13 little rough of a neighborhood or a 14 thing? I came from Southwest 15 Philly. We have rough pockets all 16 over the city. The fact of the 17 matter is it wasn't like this. 18 COVID decimated us. What happened was I believe they knew where they were and because of the no going out and all, they left them there because they knew where they were. And if they needed to get to them, they could because we didn't know what was going to go on. But the fact of the matter now is COVID is long over and the time is now for us to give this community a break, a break. And I was glad to hear that you're talking about programs for the kids. And you know, I'll throw you out some examples. Penn has a lot of resources. Penn's biggest resource that Penn has is their people, right. That's your biggest resource. And to be honest with you, that's what we need over there. But not just for the addicts. We need your people to be in that community. We have play streets and a lot of times because of the way the neighborhood social economic status is, the parents are working two, three jobs. They're being taken care of by grandma, right. The need is still there. They still need to eat, but there's nobody on the block to do that afterschool program. There's nobody on that block to do that summer lunch program. You want to help the community? Let's organize that. Let's organize your kids. That's your resource. Let's organize your people into that neighborhood. The same way that you're out there giving the resources to the addicted population we need that for our kids, you understand what I'm saying. If you guys -- all we're saying is if this was thought of before this point, we wouldn't be here. The fact of the matter is if you would have had outreach vehicles out there helping the addicts, but also outreach vehicles doing medical services for the kids, immunization shots, different things like that, dental stuff in the neighborhood, and God forbid, you guys used to do that a lot. I think it just got put to the side because you guys were concentrating on the epidemic, the opioid epidemic. But I think now we need to also get back to that, how do we get into that community and heal the whole community. Because the fact of the matter is you know and I know, my father was an alcoholic. God bless him. He's 40 years sober. First years of 15 my life were rough, you know what I mean. But one thing I know is kids are resilient and home is home. What they deal with at home isn't what usually is put out there. That's home. They learn how to deal -- we learn how to deal with that. We learn how to cope with that. What puts us out there is when you go out into that neighborhood and you're trying to get away from what your parents were doing and your friends are doing it, you know what I'm saying, and we just keep the cycle going. We need to stop the cycle. And that's all we're trying to get across, is that we need to not only think about the addicts, and I think about them all the time. I can't help it. I live there, but we need to start thinking about that community and how we heal this community.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Mark Squilla for one comment.
Thank you. And you don't have to answer that. You could send this answer in later because I know -- I don't know if it's you guys or who's talking to some of the people on the street down there too. There's I guess some studies that are going on by a hospital down there with a Sublocade, Klonopin and some other studies. I guess they're getting gift cards to do these studies. And based on -- I don't know if it's Penn or Jefferson or Temple or somebody. But where do we get the information on those studies that are happening, right? And then there was one -- and I don't know if this is true, but they said they were getting money to participate in a mushroom study. Is that something that's happening?
It's possible. I don't think that it's -- I haven't heard internally that it's at Penn, but we can find out.
Yes, if you could just send that to the Chair and just the date associated with it. I think we will be interested to see how many participants are involved in that --
-- how it works. And then from what I understand, at least with the Sublocade ones they're mainly gift cards, but I think the other one was the mushroom one. And again, these are just the people on the street telling me this so I'm just going back. We didn't know about them. I don't know if anybody else knows.
Yeah. My brother told me about that study with the mushrooms yesterday too. But I don't think it's at Penn.
So if you're interested in all of the studies, we can definitely -- there's flyers for -- we have flyers forever that we can send you. Flyers and the studies that are happening and the research we have access. If that's helpful for you, we can certainly send you all the things that have happened that.
For sure. And we would like to work together with you to try to figure out how to make things better. I mean, I don't have the answer for, you know, everything, but we do have some targeted resources that can be helpful that we can send.
Thank you so much. Thank you for being with us today. Thank you for sharing your story. We wish you a lot of luck on your own journey, right, and you as well. We are working really hard to just help community residents in the Kensington Harrowgate reimagine a neighborhood where everybody is thriving. So thank you so much for being with us and for your work and on the ground.
There being no further panels regarding this resolution, will the Clerk please call the next witness for public comment.
Yes. For public comment, we have Mr. Lawrence Jackson, John Cooper and Rachel McNichol. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Thank you for being with us this afternoon and for your patience. Please state your name for the record and begin with your testimony.
Good afternoon. My name is Lawrence Jackson. I'm a grateful recovering person from the disease of addiction. As a former NFL player with the Atlanta Falcons and New England Patriots, my journey from professional athlete to homelessness and ultimately to sustain recovery in the community is a testament to resilience, humility, the power of faith and utilization of the support systems in Philadelphia. On October 16, 2017 not knowing my final destination, I got in a car and left Atlanta, and my motivation was to obtain money for drugs and alcohol through identity theft. The next day we arrived in Philadelphia to scam the first bank. I just wanted my 15% cut so I could go back to Atlanta. Well, my companions and handlers they gave me the rest of the crack and they suggested I go to another bank. Ultimately, I was arrested by the bicycle police, but I did not -- the lead at jail was the intervention I needed to stay clean. You got to understand I didn't know anybody in Philly. I had never been to Philly, right. So I had seven criminal charges on $100,000 bond. I thought I was going back to prison for the eighth time, but God intervened and the court concluded that I had a drug problem as well as mental health challenges. I was given four years supervised probation. This was the blessing because my probation officer encouraged me to go to drug rehab. I was 53 years old. I had never been to drug rehab. On March 26, 2018 I went to my first inpatient drug rehab here in Philly and stayed clean for six months. But I was not living life in recovery. I thought coming from Atlanta recovery was just people that didn't drink and didn't use drugs, the systematic support and personal responsibility. In September 2019 with the assistance of homeless outreach services, I went to rehab for a second time by accepting placement into the DBHIDS Journey of Hope Project. Journey of Hope is designed to serve people like me, individuals experiencing prolonged homelessness, substance use disorder and co-occurring mental health challenges. After months in JOH, 8 I was master independent housing. 9 I also took advantage of the 10 NFL-sponsored mental health rehabilitation that I did not know as a former player I was entitled to until I got to Philadelphia to enhance my recovery process. By December 2021, I had finally made a conscious decision to begin to become gainfully employed, get off Social Security disability and comply with all behavioral health treatment recommendations. As a result of my decision, I became a recovery advocate for DBHIDS 2020 and later a PA, Pennsylvania-certified peer specialist CPS. In 2022, I was hired full-time by DBHIDS to work on the mobile outreach recovery services, the MORS unit. Yeah, I work for the MORS unit and I serve today as a behavioral health case manager designated to work at the Wellness Court. In 2022, I was awarded a Philadelphia Housing Authority home rental voucher and moved into a three-bedroom home on May 10, 2024. A little over a year ago I became a first-time homeowner through the Philadelphia Housing Development Corporation, Turn the Key housing industry. (Applause.)
With the help of the courts, probation, clinical treatment providers, homeless services and a faith in God, my outlook on life has improved dramatically. By staying clean and serene, I have become a beacon of hope to those still struggling, a trusted messenger, peer advocate with the Philadelphia behavioral health care system and a community leader. Providing that no situation is beyond redemption, transformation is not only possible but also impactful for others when lived authentically and shared openly. I am truly a product of DBHIDS. (Applause.)
State your name for the record and begin with your testimony. We'll hear all of the testimonies and then end with questions. Okay. MS. McNICHOLS: Raquel McNichols.
Share your testimony. MS. McNICHOLS: Oh, yeah. Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm just sitting here and I'm so proud of Lawrence. I've watched Lawrence's journey firsthand and it's just been an incredible, incredible journey to watch. So I'm not going to go deep into my story because you know it already, and I am a person with lived experience in recovery eight and a half years. ) MS. McNICHOLS: Thank you. And I've been working in this field for about eight years. Almost eight years I've been working in this field. So I started off as a certified recovery specialist. I worked at Proact Recovery Community Center. Then I worked at DBHIDS for five and a half years and I was exposed to like, you know, learned that I have some great project management skills and was part of learning a lot and creating a lot of cool things. And then now I work for a treatment provider Pyramid Health Care and I'm the Philadelphia Community Relations Coordinator. And Kensington in particular is so near to my heart because I'm from that area. So I grew up in Fishtown, Port Richmond and Kensington. We moved around a lot when I was young. My family's still in Kensington and Port Richmond. I still make my AA meeting every Thursday night in Fishtown. So I'm very -- and my work is there. So what I will say is -- and also, when I was in my addiction that was where, you know, and I heard us talking about amends, but every single day my work is my living amends of the damage that I know that I contributed to years ago, you know. I'm also a mom. My son is 5, almost so I totally 4 understand what it's like for what 5 the children have to see there. 6 And I know for me like I'm very hypersensitive to what my son sees and is exposed to. He knows mommy helps people he thinks, like I help people that are sad, right, and I help people that don't have houses because that's what he can understand right now. And eventually I will explain it to him, but that's what he can understand right now. But I know that children at his age know a lot more and that is very unfortunate and unacceptable, you know. And for me, I go down there once a week, right. I get phone calls. I was in and out because I was getting phone calls to connect people to treatment while here, but I am down there in person once a week and I see everything that's going on. And I see the way the drug supply has changed tremendously. I do see things improving. With the amount of resources that are out there I do see that improvement, but I also do think that there still is a long way to go. And the biggest thing, the biggest barrier I hear is people are afraid of the withdrawal from this drug supply. And their critical needs are they are having convulsions. These are people that typically don't present as having seizures, which I know you heard from Penn's medical team about all those things and it's really instilling fear. And then the other part that's working against what we're trying to accomplish is everyone talks to each other on the streets so they have the information before we do, you know. So it's like we're combating that culture as well. What I would like to see is maybe more official channels for collaboration among providers, especially coming from a provider lens now, because where I'm working now the access is I'm doing assessments over the phone and I'm connecting people to transportation right away, right. And I think that if we all -- and I could connect people from out of county, right. And I think that's really great. But I think that if we all collaborated more to work together that it would be -- we would be able to make a difference. And if we learned, well, what's working well for you instead of feeling like a competition on who can do it better, right. Because I'm not a social media person at all. I don't even know if people know what I do for work on my social media because it's not about that. It's about what's happening behind the scenes for me, right.
So that's a lot of the things that like I see. And I think that we are coming along and we're just up against something that no one really truly has the answer for. But there are ways to improve effectively and then also ways to protect the children because they do need that protection more than anything. And I also think maybe more people need to be trauma- informed to understand, well, what isn't acceptable, how to serve people with the children around, you know, how do we do this constructively in a way, strategically collaborating with one another to where we can do this here and then have this here, you know. And I've been part of many things, where I know with McPherson when the new playground came up there and then we moved outreach efforts out of that area, you know, and that was effective for summer services. That was effective. And I think it's just continuing to work out that way and communicate. I think it's basic soft skills, you know, that we're not tapping into that we could be and making improvements and working with all of you to figure things out together.
My name is John Cooper. I'm a grateful recovering heroin addict. I'm also a provider, and I cannot separate myself from that but I am here as a grateful recovering drug addict, heroin addict, homeless. I used to come in here all the time and I used to count all the light bulbs that were out, and I'm just looking around.
I want to thank everybody that spoke before me and whether I'm in conflict with what they say or whether I believe what their beliefs are or I don't. And I base my life on my own experience. Like Raquel says, we need a collaboration. We need to bring the right hand and the left hand together. There is a lot of resources that are available to a lot of people who don't know that they're available. And one of the thing that troubles me most is when people say that it's hard and time- consuming to access an individual into an appropriate level of care. And I can say that because I can look at a couple of you guys up there that have called me and within a matter of minutes, I 12 had an individual in an appropriate 13 level of care. Put your hand up, 14 Mark, see. 15 But that's -- and I'm not saying it's anyone's fault. I'm not here to speak negatively. I'm very solution-oriented and I am as passionate as anyone. I too am a recovering heroin addict with two children that at one point of my addiction thought that the only way -- (Applause.)
The only way for me to live my life was to take the lives of my children and take my own life. And I prayed to God to give me one moment of sanity and he did. And now, I'm the Director of Operations for a drug and alcohol rehabilitation center and I give every day of my breathing life. Because why? Because everything that I am today, everything that I have today, the careers of my children all stem through answering that phone and helping people. Everything I am is by God giving me the ability and I run with it today. And I'll stop and I will not take no, you know. I was on the Mayor's task force in 2015. What's improved, you know? What have we tried? Do we look outside the box? We have to look outside the box. I work with the court system who now we're getting more people out of jail because we're bypassing certain procedures and able to give a simple seven- question evaluation to see what appropriate level of care they are. You know, outside the box. You know, we got to pull down those walls that segregate us from one another as far as providers. I don't have to be the best. I have to know where to be able to direct someone. I need to know where I can get that immediate care. I know who's going to answer the phone and who's not going to answer the phone. And I've collaborated with other organizations to where you can call me with any situation, rather from acute mental health to detox to wound care and I can get somebody away in 15 minutes. I pride myself on that, you know. I'm really appreciative of you guys. I'm really appreciative of everyone in here. Everyone plays a major part, you know. I was listening to you and I was listening to your line for questioning. And I'm like, Jesus, you know, we seek for answers where there are none, but I understand what you guys are doing. We at least have to attempt something because if we weren't, imagine what it would be. Jimmy, I was born and raised at Front and Lehigh, you know what I mean. I lived in Kensington. My father was a truck driving blue-collar alcoholic, you know what I mean. I graduated K&A 21 years old, drafted by the drug manufacturers; years old in 23 federal prison; 35 years old taking 24 heroin for the first time; 40 years old homeless. And if it wasn't for people like everyone in this room I don't know where I'd be. I could go on and on and on. And I remember sitting back there since o'clock saying, man, come on, 7 stop, will yous. No, I tell the 8 truth. 9
10 Thank you. Thank you so much for 11 your testimony. And I want to also 12 congratulate each one of you on your individual journeys in recovery. We do know that it's possible, right. We do know that recovery is possible. We do know that outreach is necessary. We also understand that collaboration and communication and a centralized location for how and where to find resources is extremely important, which is why we advocate for it so much. We want to make sure that our outreach workers have all of the information they need to be able to connect that person when they say I'm ready at their fingertips. We want outreach workers to make sure that when they're out there, they're also safe, because as we mentioned earlier the supply continues to change and they don't know how they're going to find this person's mental health when they approach them to ask them, good afternoon, good morning, do you want some water, do you need anything, are you okay. We don't know how that is going to be received. And so, we want all of those things. Mr. Lawrence, I guess I'm going to -- Mr. Jackson, I'm going to ask you, you received multiple engagements through outreach workers. Which one or which ones do you believe were most effective? And which ones do you believe were just like, eh, they were okay?
So y'all talked earlier about touches, but they are truly meaningful engagements and then just general engagements. So when I started out at MORS, I came on as we were conducting health and wellness surveys. We were actually going to the recovery houses talking to people with substance use problems and some mental health challenges and asking them a little history about the drug substance use and mental health. And so, as we evolved into the continuity of care, right, I took on my role as a CPS with the 75 hours of training and took the board exams. It really changed my life as a person that was bipolar, that had aggression, that had anxiety, that had depression. When I learned about the history of mental health being founded in Philadelphia, I really thought that was my calling to do something useful. So I like to have meaningful engagements by talking to the individual. We go up -- as MORS, we go up to the people in Kensington with the stem in their mouth. We go up to the ones with the needle in their arm. We go to the ones that's passed out. We Narcan them. We talk to them. We ask them are you ready. And if they say no, we come back and we see them again and we ask them is they ready again. Because the consistency of being an outreach worker is not afraid to know exactly what these individuals are going through. At some point they're going to be ready. The encampment resolution of 2023 up under the bridge of 95, we worked with two females from August to December that stayed in the car. They lived in the car. They ain't taking no 7 bath. They ain't taking no 8 showers. And they finally said they was ready to go. And we took them, we put them in the car, we assessed them and we took them straight to treatment. Now, I'm not going to tell you what happened after that. That's why we got continuity of care. All right. And so now, not only do we work with them when they come out of rehab or if they're in the recovery house or if they're in safe haven, we follow them. We follow them and we give case management services, whatever resources we have, a peer specialist and case manager. And we sit the individual down, we come up with an action plan, what are the immediate needs. A lot of it might be ID, it might be birth certificate, it might be food stamps. They might want to apply for disability. But we know for the most part that they need stable housing. And so, I just think the meaningful engagements when people actually say yes, they want some help, we give it to them and we be in position to be consistent, to come back. They may not be ready today, but by Friday they might be ready. Thanks.
Thank you. Thank you for sharing your story with us. You know I love you. You know I appreciate all of your work. Cooper, you know I'm grateful for the multiple times that I have called you regarding connecting people with services. And he speaks truth here, right, within under 30 minutes I'm receiving a call back to say my person is communicating with them right now. And that's what we need, right. We need to be able to connect someone at that moment to say, this person just called me and they said they're ready, what am I supposed to do. And he says, you don't have to do anything. You give me their contact information and I'm going to take care of it. And under those 30 minutes, Cooper is sending someone to pick that person up where they are to get them to their place, right. And that's called partnership, right. That's called really wanting to remove folks out of the space where they're in that will prevent them from wanting to continue services or to receive services in the spirit of collaboration. And for that, I'm really grateful. You don't see each other as competition. You see each other as collaborators and as partners, and that's really what we in the Kensington Harrowgate community need more of. And so, I just wanted to say how grateful I am for both of you and for the work that you do and for the outreach workers that are out there. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Harrity.
You know, what people told me that something as simple as getting somebody into a bed couldn't be done in a certain amount of time, I knew they were lying because of Coop and because of all the times that I've called him in the middle of the night, early in the morning. And as he said, having those connections, being able to coordinate and knocking down them silos is what we need. We need to be able to see in realtime to get the -- because you all know when it's time, it's time and it's a matter of time. You have a certain amount of time to get them in before that mindset changes. And again, being able to get meds right away is actually a key to that. Because the longer they sit there and thinking, stinking thinking, you know, I can't sit in my head, my head's a horrible place. But me sitting here and looking over there at you guys, I know that addiction does not discriminate. But in the same breath, I know that recovery doesn't discriminate either. We're all different, from all different walks of life, different things, but we had the same disease and we have the same path and that's recovery. Man, I thank you for coming in. I thank you for waiting around all day. I know it was a long hearing, but it's because we really do want to get to the bottom of this. We want to know what the real deal is. How do we do this, how do we break this down. And you guys, out of everybody that testified I know you guys are the ones that know because you're out there every day. You know what the obstacles are. You know what the barriers are. And I bet you also know how to solve it. You said it, coordination, knowing that something is there in realtime, knowing that you can get somebody their meds and get them into that place within an hour. That's what it's about. So I thank you all.
So I would like to respond to that because I've been listening very diligently over the last couple of hours, right. So when I came to DBHIDS, right. I went through the Office of Homeless Service. I went to the shelter over in Woodland. I relapsed. I came back. I was declared homeless, chronically homeless. I've been in Philly for three years, three years being homeless. But anyway, when I came through Journey of Hope, that program I think needs to be expanded because it took the mental health, it took for me to accept -- first of all, I have a mental health illness. I have a mental illness that requires that I take my medication. So I can remember being in Atlanta and being on a whole bunch of different types of medications and the doctor told me, we got you on a pretty good cocktail and if you stop using those drugs, you'll probably feel really good. So I tried her, I challenged her on that. I stopped using. And the next time I asked her, Doc, you were telling the truth, I understand what you mean. I mean, I wouldn't hide anything but the mental health meds for my condition was making me feel like a better person. So my recovery starts the night before. I take my meds. I try to get proper sleep. I'm trying to be asleep by 8 o'clock in Philly. All right. I really am. I'm trying to be up at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning to pray and to meditate. But I just believe the emphasis should be more on the mental health stability and improvement, all right, as opposed to -- the drugs is just a symptom of the disease.
I've been saying that since I got here. I tell everybody that. And the Wellness Village is partly conversations that the Mayor had with me, Coop, a couple other people telling her that the disconnect was the mental health and housing. If we can help with those two things -- getting sober is first. That's what they need to do first. But succeeding at being sober takes some other things. And mental health is one of the two things. I say there's two things. Mental health, housing after getting sober is the key to people actually succeeding. Mental health is all tied together. It's one. The trauma that sent you out there, all that stuff and hearing, you know, the fact that you went through a lot of different stages, you know what I'm saying, homelessness, the whole ninth yards. Some of our stories are the same. Some of our stories are different, right. And that's what makes it -- that's what makes recovery. We all have a story that one person might not relate to, but others do and 15 it's all different. 16 I just am happy that the 17 conversation is starting right here 18 today, that we're actually thinking 19 outside the box and mental health 20 is, as far as I'm concerned, one of the most key things and that's how much we've learned in recovery. Because when I first got sober in the '80s, they were against mental health drugs. The Vietnam vets are what said, wait a minute, we got to rethink this because they couldn't stay sober, because they're all suffering from PTSD and you're telling somebody that's suffer from PTSD not to take their meds, it doesn't work. So recovery is always revolving. And the fact now is that the people out there now need these drugs to keep them, you know, the methadone and the Suboxone and the other things to keep them on pace because we learned lessons. So I thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We're going to a quick comment from Councilmember Dr. Ahmad and then Councilmember Squilla wants to make a quick comment and then we will end this committee hearing.
Thank you again for all of you for testifying, really critical information you gave us. I want to just commend Coop because I've been to your facility. I have seen it. I know what it can do. My quick question to you was are you connected to DBH --
Let me just say this and this is what I'll say: CBH used to be one of my biggest nemesis. Now, CBH is one of my biggest heroes.
CBH. DBH, we work with them through CBH. Everything used to be closed-minded and that's the thing. Everything was closed by every -- you want to know the truth? Everything was monopolized. You couldn't get this because you weren't with that. You couldn't do this because you didn't know them. And these guys have broken past the barriers to where people who didn't have a voice -- and I'm going to tell you what, a lot of my relationships, and that's what I'm best -- that's what I'm grateful for. Because God put people in my life that had the ability to make decisions that solved things that weren't going right and weren't improving and gave us seats at tables that we never had.
So the collaboration you mentioned that is missing, what did you mean by that?
By other providers, okay, by other providers. These guys give us the opportunity to provide. These guys play a part in why my organization is running.
Thank you so much. Thank you. Very quickly, Councilmember Squilla, because our stenographer has to run out. But Councilmember Squilla.
Real quick. And I just want to say we are so grateful for our outreach workers and the people out there that are helping day-in and day-out because without them, the people on the streets -- and we need to listen to them more, right. And we need to listen to the providers more and then learn where those differences we need the providers to work together. That's the whole goal. The dashboard is to get everybody to know everybody so that we can work together. We should be filling these beds, right. We shouldn't say we have a million empty beds. But your work, it is great to be able to pick up a phone and call somebody and say that I need you to call them and they're ready to go right now and do that. Unfortunately, not everybody has that access. We need to make that available for people on the street, right. And that's where I think we have to get to and that's where we want to get to and this is the start. And I think that we're not going to agree on everything, and that's okay. But I think we all have the same common interest and the common goal to make sure that we're helping those people who need it the most. And also, the people who could be negatively impacted by what we're doing on the streets that people live in those communities, we have to keep them both. Some people I've had conversations, and real quick, it was my job is just to care about the people who are in addiction there. And I said, well, we don't. We're unfortunate enough not -- we can't pick one side or the other. We got to help both. And I think our goal is to help both here. And with your help, with our Health Department's help, our outreach workers, we will get there and I really feel confident we'll do this. So thank you all for testifying. We really appreciate your efforts and your time and we'll continue to work together.
I think we're seeing the fruits of working under a different Administration, a different leadership, people who are willing to think beyond the box and people who are willing to understand that we need to prioritize both groups of people. And so, I am hopeful that we are rowing in the right direction and we have a lot of work to do. But I'm really grateful for all of those who are willing to become collaborative partners. And so, I was informed by the Clerk that there are no 5 other witnesses to testify. I want to thank everyone who were on our panels today and for everyone's participation. We value everyone's opinion. This concludes the business before the Special Committee on Kensington. Thank you very much for your attendance. You guys have a great afternoon.
Thank you guys. (Special Committee on Kensington concluded at 4:31 p.m.) C E R T I F I C A T I O N I, hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence noted are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me in the foregoing matter, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. __________________________________ TANEHA CARROLL