COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, 1/31/01 3:25 p.m. - - - RES. 010020 - Approving Phillies lease and development agreement between Phillies and PAID. RES. 010021 - Disapproving Phillies lease and development agreement between Phillies and PAID. RES. 010022 - Approving Eagles lease and development agreement between Philadelphia Eagles Limited Partnership and PAID. RES. 010023 - Disapproving Eagles lease and development agreement between Philadelphia Eagles Limited Partnership and PAID. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA, Chair COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL, Vice Chair COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK J. DICICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN W. THACHER LONGSTRETH COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 1/31/01 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE I N D E X James Roundtree . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Director of the Minority Enterprise Council 5 Charles Solomon, Director of Economic . . . . 9 Development, Greater Phila. Urban Coalition Wm. Martin, Esq. (Representing Administration) 44 Marilyn Cutler, Esq. (Representing PAID) . . . 52 Charles Hardy, Esq. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63 (Representing South Philly Residents) David L. Cohen, Esq., Phillies Counsel . . . . 73 Mary Richards, Veterans Stadium Neighbors. . . 76 Judy Cerrone, Stadium Community Council Assoc. 78 Tony Greco, So. Phila. Community Civic Assoc. 85 Barbara Capozzi, Packer Park Civic Assoc. 87 Judge Alex Bonavitacola, So. Phila. Resident 92 3 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 P R O C E E D I N G S
Good afternoon, everyone. This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Resolution No.'s 010020, 010021, 010022, and 010023. Our first witness this afternoon will be Mr. Roundtree. (Witness comes forward.)
Councilwoman, do you want them both at the same time or one at a time? (Councilwoman Miller responds off record.)
Very well. Would Mr. Solomon please join Mr. Roundtree at the witness table. (Additional witness comes forward.)
The Chair will recognize Councilwoman Miller. 4 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23
Thank you, Madam Chair. One of the things I learned from being here for five years now and going through the Kvaerner deal, that we can put minority employment opportunities and all of those things on paper, but I guess my line of questioning today is that I'd like to know of the method that's going to be used around implementation. My experience with constituents calling me with the Kvaerner deal was that they just couldn't seem to get a in, they just couldn't seem to get a response when they made phone calls or when we wrote letters. So I guess what I'd like to know -- and I guess because MBE and I believe the Urban Coalition will be working closely together with the teams around the implementation of the minority plan, I'd like to hear from them the process and information regarding the process about how people will be able to access and become part of either the employment contracts, et cetera.
Already I've had 5 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 a call from one contractor that has been in touch with MBE and was referred to someone at one of the levels of the teams, and he's said he's called there ten times and has not gotten a response. So -- and these are typical types of problems that people encountered during the Kvaerner Shipyard deal, so I would like either group to respond.
Mr. Roundtree, please identify yourself for the record and response to Councilwoman Miller.
Yes. My name is James Roundtree, and I'm the Director of the Minority Enterprise Council for the City of Philadelphia. Good afternoon. The way we intend to implement the program is that the MBEC will be involved with the Greater Philadelphia Urban Coalition for monitoring the business participation on the project, and the Urban Coalition will be soley responsible for monitoring the employment. The MBEC will assist in showing that the firms who are selected are certified by our organization, as well as certifiable under the DOT regulations. 6 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 As far as your constituents calling in to a referral, there are two separate projects. The Eagles facility is pretty much further along in the planning stages than the Phillies facility. We can direct them directly to an individual, an organization within the Eagles structure or team structure, but it's a little bit more difficult for the Phillies activity, and I believe your constituent is having problems reaching the appropriate person from the Phillies organization, but more the management team, more the architecture and engineering team because they have not been fully developed yet, and we are working on that process. As a matter of fact, I received that same call and I'm trying to set up a meeting now between the two individuals.
Okay. Well, isn't there some type of -- well, I guess if that part is still being developed, then wouldn't it be better to tell someone that it's still in the process of being developed rather than to have them call ten times? I mean, what happens when people get no response?
There has to be some type of mechanism in place. I mean, you either are told yes, no or maybe so; you don't keep calling and calling and calling and never get a response.
Yes, Councilwoman, but I was just made aware of that aggressiveness just yesterday, that they had been repeatedly been calling and had not received a response. As a matter of fact, I was in the hearing when I heard about the activity, but unfortunately, I have not had not an opportunity to set up a meeting with those two gentlemen.
Okay. Mr. Roundtree, do you believe that because we had the same type of situations in Kvaerner -- and that's the only deal I'm going to speak about today -- and now we had it already with this group, isn't there some way to prevent -- is there a plan that says, Okay, this happened, so the next time we'll do X, Y, or Z? Or do people continue to have to call and call and call and call? I mean, is there something that we can do to stop this?
Councilwoman, I believe 8 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 that this project is very different than the Kvaerner activity. We, being the MBEC, we're involved much earlier on than we were in the Kvaerner deal. We have been in a lot better communications with the team and their organizations than we were during the Kvaerner situation. This is an unfortunate happening that we need to rectify, and I pledge to you that between my staff and I, we will make sure -- and with the Urban Coalition, we will sit down with all of the parties. One of the problems that we were told that the Phillies have is that they are not under contract with their architecture team yet, and so basically, for instance, service firms do not like to engage you unless they have a contract.
I understand that. My problem with this is no response after ten telephone calls. So if that happens again, then what is someone -- should we call you?
If I get that kind of complaint, who do we call? 9 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23
Yeah, they should not have called ten times without calling the MBEC either. Like I'd like to reiterate, I did not hear about it until I was here the other day, that it had been that number of times they called, and the gentlemen was quite frustrated, which I can understand, but I will commit to you that we will rectify that and that no one will -- that we refer will -- have that kind of obstacle placed in front of them.
Okay. All right, Okay. Can you tell us a little bit about recruitment and whether that's going to happen through both MBE and the Urban Coalition? And what is the plan around recruitment or getting information out? And how can Council people help with that whole process?
Councilperson, good afternoon. My name is Charles Solomon, and I am the Director of Economic Development at the Greater Philadelphia Urban Coalition, and I'd like to address your question on both projects. But specifically on the Eagles project, 10 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 we have developed an outreach effort that is at this moment, because of the fact that much of the professional service area has been contracted out already and we are looking more at the construction side, on a per-package basis, we are working with MBEC in terms of identifying firms along with our database and the CM database, identifying firms, minority firms and female firms and disadvantaged firms that could participate on a project. We have a direct contact with each of the persons. We schedule what's called "informational meetings" to provide information to the general public along with those firms that are specifically interested, and we want to make sure that each of those firms that we've identified, who is actually certified by MBEC, are, in fact, made aware of and have access to plans and specs, and that we don't experience any delay in terms of contact. That has been ongoing, and we've got folks working on that daily, and along with getting folks invited to the pre-bid as relates to the construction end of it. On the Phillies side, we've got a lot 11 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 more lead time and there's been some meetings with MBEC along with the CM and the design team to talk about areas of professional services. I'm amazed that there was a call -- we didn't receive a call. We've been retained by both activities to manage the implementation and monitoring of EOP (economic opportunity plan) and we meet almost weekly with the Eagles and probably almost daily with the Phillies folks to talk about implementing the plan and offering opportunities because of the fact that the plan does in fact represent some challenges that we want to be very successful with. So we've been outreaching to the community, and we'll continue that.
And if I may add to that, part of the meetings that we have, we try and have people who are in decision-making posture to attend the meetings so that the minority, women, and disabled business community can meet with those individuals and begin to acclimate faces with names and faces with companies.
So the criteria, 12 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 a firm must be certified MBE.
Right, by MBEC, right, okay. And if a firm is not, they can easily get into the process of getting that certification?
They can access the application process relatively easy. It's not an easy process to get certified. We don't want to give the illusion that someone could submit an application and be certified too easily. It's a grueling and intense process.
One of the difficulties that's very infrequently talked about when complains about the certification process, when one receives an application, it requires certain information, and oftentimes when it's submitted, it's minus key information, so it's a back-and-forth process. So if they get it, review it for a couple weeks and send it back, the client keeps it for another three weeks or a month or so, that creates a problem. 13 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 So in this particular instance, we've talked about trying to expedite that process to get firms to be able to respond the first time around. And I understand that as of tomorrow, Mr. Roundtree's meeting with one candidate like that to go over the package to make sure if it is, in fact, ready. Part of the outreach effort, just to revisit that for a moment, there's a local firm, RPC, it's a plans and spec reproduction company, they were interested in working on both projects. We connected them with the Eagles folks and with the Phillies folks, and they're actively working as a principal supplier of plans and specs on the Eagles project, and that's a black female-owned firm here in the City.
How will employment be handled and who will basically handle employment?
Okay, a couple things we are doing. First, we're meeting with the 14 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 construction management team on both projects, and we're getting a profile, if you will, of the kinds of trades that will employed on each project, the number of hours in each trade, so that that can guide our recruitment effort. We're taking a look at the historical ability of trades persons and minority females in the various trades and we're going to match that up with the trades where the bulk of the work -- and typically, the electrical, carpentry, plumbing, those operating engineers is where we have significant capacity. We want to see where most of the opportunity for employment is in terms of hours to be worked. Then we want to look at the apprenticeship programs to see if we can get more folks into the apprenticeship programs. We have an apprenticeship training programs, two sessions scheduled for each of these projects. We want to get folks involved and prep them for the apprenticeship programs and work with the unions. We've had a lot of success working with the unions in terms of getting folks into the apprenticeship program and ultimately becoming journeypersons. We want to work that a little better on this 15 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 project, but we need to know on the front end what the opportunities are.
Do you have written information on your pre-apprenticeship and prepping sessions for people to get into the programs?
We have information. Unfortunately, I don't have it right here today, but I could can get it to you today, before the close of business.
Okay, because this is the type of information that I would like to get out to my constituents so we can begin to refer people in.
Okay, thank you. How will you deal with the union issue?
Pardon me, will you repeat that? I didn't hear you. 16 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23
If one gets in the apprenticeship program, normally it's with a union, I understand that. But in terms of someone coming in who's being prepped for apprenticeship, then I guess based on their area of interest, that would be the area that you would refer them to, and then the union piece would then pick up then? Or what?
The program that we have, it's called a "construction orientation training program." The design of the program is to, one, make sure that the individual is prepared to take the math test and the interview that many of the unions require. At the same time, on a project- specific basis, we like to talk with the various subcontractors to talk about sponsorship, to talk about being able to get folks into the unions, and also working with the various business agents and unions, Mr. Gillespie, also about how we could work more effectively with them to get more folks involved in the apprenticeship programs. One of the issues that they have pointed out is that we're in a good time now as it relates to construction 'cause we've got a lot of 17 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 jobs, but it's still a matter of getting folks ready to take the tests and then to work on being proficient in the various trades. The problems -- one of the problems has been for the unions, I guess, in terms of their reluctance -- this is a personal opinion -- is that the ability to bring folks in but then having to find them work. We try to deal with that by -- we're dealing with the subcontractors and getting a commitment from them to sponsor an individual, if they pass the test, and kind of solve that problem of placement.
And that's kind of how it's working at this particular point.
Passing the math test is one level of criteria. What is the other?
Passing the test is one and passing the interview is the next one.
Okay. And what about any educational credentials? Or someone said that they must have a driver's license?
Yes. There are -- there 18 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 are a list of criteria that a person must address before actually getting into our program, and having a driver's license, having a high school education or a GED or being prepared or willing to pursue one in the short term is very, very key. Getting into a union, you must have a driver's license; if you don't have a driver's license, you're working against yourself. So we want to work with folks; that's part of the prep. We do conflict-resolution training, we do job-readiness training all as a part of the training program. We also provide some level of familiarity with the various trades by having trades person come in throughout the 15 weeks of training to familiarize individuals or give them some orientation to the particular trade areas and the requirements for that particular trade. So by the time we get through 15-week period, there is a good insight to the unions, the trades, and they're able to select which test they'd like to sit for.
So if we have constituents that we want to refer for the employment and pre-apprenticeship or whatever, we 19 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 need to call your office?
Yes. Specifically, you should call our office and speak with Miss Michelle Gums (ph.), who is here today, and we'll give you her number and that kind of information, along with the other material.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have any further questions.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Thank you very much. How will the oversight committee be constituted and who will appoint -- nominate members to the oversight committee?
You know, part of that is a mystery. We've sort of concluded that that would come from this body, but what we were recommending to our client is that they attempt to 20 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 make some recommendations to this body about the composition of the advisory committee and with some recommendations about participants. 'Cause we, you know, historically, that has come from this body.
Yeah, some representatives of Council and the Council President's office as well as recommendations from the Administration and the particular project owners. It's usually a three-pronged approach, with the Administration, Council being represented by the Council President's office, and the owners of the project developers. They agree on at least ten of the members.
These committees have been anywhere from 12 to 20 people. It depends. 21 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23
On an average, we have about to people. Even at the 20-level, we 8 have about 10 to 12 people who actively 9 participate. 10
So what do they 11 do? What is the role of the oversight committee? 12
We perform a monitoring function. We look at the benchmarks that are set in terms of the goals of the participation levels for employment and for contracting, and we develop a detailed report that addresses all -- each bid package with a break-out of minority, female, and disadvantaged participation, and we monitor the percentage complete, and we look closely at how the project is moving forward, and we provide reports on a monthly basis -- in some cases biweekly to the advisory committee for them to 22 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 look at, comment on, and make recommendations. The advisory committee has proven to be a very, very instrumental part of achieving, valid, viable, verifiable participation levels on a project. The advisory committee, in many instances, in terms of (indiscernible) has provided some very solid and good direction to the project team in terms of how they pursue participation levels. In many instances, actual contractors had to come in provide some explanation to the advisory committee in cases where we've reported that they have not be meeting the levels that they were supposed. So it's a total team effort, where everybody contributes, but the point is, the advisory committee has played a very, very key role, and the project team, I think, has benefitted from that, along with the individual construction companies.
Well, we will make some recommendations to the contractor. And let's say it's an employment -- do you want to address 23 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 that?
Well, Councilwoman, one of the things I think that needs to be asked of each one of the teams, because they are the ones that have the total authority over payments and things of that -- or any punitive responses. They are pretty set forth in the contract, and generally, they are utilized as any form or any aspect of a contract. If they don't meet any obligation of any form of the contract, then there's something written as to how they can be responded to.
So the oversight committee can only notify the Eagles or the client that the contractor is not in compliance?
No. It's usually done a little different. They try to resolve the matter at that level. That's the first level -- well, between the GPUAC and the MBEC, that's usually the first level of defense as far as compliance is concern. And then if it cannot be handled at that level, then it is placed in front of the oversight committee, which you have representatives from all of the general bodies. 24 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 They usually have at least one, maybe two union representatives on it. So if it's a union issue, it could be dealt with there. But they tend to be the middle person or try to handle or resolve the issue before it actually has to be dealt with by the teams, or the owners.
And then, ultimately, it's the owners' responsibility to make that designation, but there are members on the oversight committee that are from the owners. I mean, they are decision-makers of the owners, so that is what really drives that activity.
Thank you. Councilman Cohen, did you want to be recognized, sir?
Thank you, Madam Chair. Do the provisions with respect to minority employment cover -- in addition to questions of entrepreneurship, do they cover issues of the workforce itself employed by various 25 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 groups that the ball teams or any other groups dealing, you know, working at the stadium?
Yes, what we call "the economic develop plan" outlines participation on every aspect, or so it will. And the reason I say so it will is because the Philadelphia -- the Phillies plan has not been formalized, but the Eagles plan does address every area of participation, even from operations.
Oh, I heard in answer to -- in answer to one of the questions by Councilwoman Miller, you stated that your office was in a much better position to deal with questions raised about employment of minority entrepreneurs and minority work staff because you're in it earlier. Could you be more specific? For example, I understand that in discussions in the briefings that took place, there were references to the fact that one of the attorneys for the Phillies, David L. Cohen, former Chief of Staff, had made representations with respect to Kvaerner that are very similar to the representations now being made. And since we know 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, that in the minority field, Kvaerner's operation was not satisfactory at all and we feel that minority employment or entrepreneurship -- how do you intend to prevent the same thing from happening?
We have the same 9 assurances, but are we going to get different 10 result this time? 11
I believe we will, I 12 believe we will, because someone from the 13 Administration that has been specifically 14 reviewing the opportunities for the minority and 15 women and disabled businesses has been in contact 16 with both of the teams early. I met with them and 17 -- Marla Hamilton and I met with them over 18 several weeks ago, several months ago to talk 19 about how to begin developing a plan. We didn't 20 have that opportunity with the Kvaerner activity. 21 We got involved very -- a lot later on. 22 The -- all the participation levels 23 have been set, all of the goals have been established. So we had an opportunity to meet with them, give them a little bit of the 27 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, philosophy on how we believe it could be achieved, and "it" being the economic development plan and how it could be achieved, what levels we had achieved in the past, and how things were handled, and a mechanism that was in place to assure compliance and achievement. We didn't have that opportunity in the Kvaerner activity. And we met with the owners of the team and individuals with significant authority that could make things happen within the scope of the work, and that didn't happen till very later on in the Kvaerner deal. And so we had an opportunity to meet with people as the projects were shaping versus when we met with the people at the Kvaerner deal, the project had already been pretty much developed, cut, they knew who their subcontractors were. And it was sort of a, Okay, now that you've gotten your primary team, what is left? type of scenario. And we don't believe that is the case here.
And the other part of 23 that is that in both instances, we're dealing with local companies who have demonstrated a level of commitment and have identified a process that 28 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, facilitates the inclusion and facilitates participation. One of the things, with both teams, we've had some discussions about laying out all of the packages, getting a clear sense of where we could get participation as it relates to local capacity and the minority, female, and disadvantaged business community, and then working that forward by bringing those folks in, getting out in front of the process, encouraging joint ventures, and encouraging associations in partnership so that we can look at some real economic impact or growth if you will of the firms that are here now after this project is over. We've gotten a firm commitment from both owners to do that, even at the point of setting up their local offices. They're outreaching to the minority and female community to identify staff to work in the office, and this is like step one, but this is a process. We meet with the Eagles every week for a couple of hours to talk about implementing this program, measuring it step by step by step. The commitment here is far greater than 29 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 there was at the prior project. 3
Well, sir, let me 4 raise the specific nuts-and-bolts question that 5 occurs. For example, suppose the statement is 6 made that there's sole-source provisions here and 7 we've got to -- there's only one company that 8 makes this. Is there a provision for checking it? 9 And, of course, the company that makes it usually 10 winds up to be a company that has very few, if 11 any, minority employees. 12 Now, is there a way of checking that 13 out to determine the accuracy of that statement 14 and to see whether or not there was an equally -- 15 maybe a substitute that could be arranged that is 16 not a sole-source situation? Is there a procedure 17 for that? 18
There is a procedure, 19 but we're not -- I can't speak for Charles, but I 20 don't think I'm going to sit here and represent 21 that I'm going to tell any one of the sports teams 22 or their construction representatives what should 23 be sole source and what not, and if there's -- or equal. The process is going to be both the 30 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, GPUAC and the MBEC will be a part of the review process for the construction documentation and the bid packaging. And then we will attempt to identify and match minority women and disabled businesses with those activities. We will have some very lively decisions about what can be or what are sole-source items. And I keep hearing the things like the School Board being bandied around, and in the Eagles situation, the field or the turf. They are legitimate areas where there have been never been any minority, women, or disabled business that manufactured that equipment. However, there are opportunities for hauling, and there could be some for installation. What we have pledged to do is to look at each one of those areas and identify if possible where minority, women, and disabled businesses can participate, and realistically tell the community and the Council and the Administration where they are. But we intend to look at every aspect. And there are areas that there are virtually no area for us to get participation in, 31 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 and we need to accept that and kind of move on. 3 But we are committed to look at every activity and 4 come up with that list. 5 But at this point, we are not in a 6 position to say what, you know, what is sole 7 source and what isn't, because a person always 8 told me people of good conscious can come up with 9 ways to be creative. And we're looking to have a 10 meaningful and a substantial impact on 11 participation for the stadium or stadiums. 12
Well, for example, 13 where there are areas clearly where there can be 14 minority entrepreneurship, the minority companies 15 run into bonding problems in which the bonding 16 companies say, You don't have sufficient assets 17 for us to warrant issuing the bond. 18 What kind of provisions would there be 19 that would assist the minority companies to meet 20 these bonding requirements? 21
Well, that's going to 22 depend on if the firm is going to try to become a 23 prime contractor or a sub. The area that we've had the most difficulty with is the areas where firms wants to 32 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, be prime contractors versus subs. We haven't run into that great a problem when it comes to bonding for subcontractors; it's only in the prime contract area. Between Risk Management -- or from the Administration side. Risk Management and the Treasurer -- I'm getting ready to put the Treasurer on the hook, but in the finance cluster, the Risk Management Director, the Treasurer, and the MBEC is trying to look at ways where we can identify bonding companies that could assist in providing that service. It's going to be difficult, 'cause the major issue is who pays that administrative cost, and nobody really wants to deal with the administration cost of a bond. We think we have addressed the insurance issue because that's the other area. We believe we have addressed the insurance issue because if the Eagles step forward and say -- and as part of their activities, they're going to have a wraparound insurance program for most of the insurance requirements, so that will alleviate some of the difficulty to get insurance for some of our smaller contractors. 33 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 They've also -- the Eagles have also 3 indicated that they were willing to work with us 4 when we go to the bonding companies to seek 5 assistance in identifying ways that they could be 6 helpful in the bonding process. 7 So, I mean, we've identified those 8 areas as potential, we've talked about that, and 9 we're forming a relationship that we can assist. 10 Again, we are a lot further along on 11 the Eagles side than we are on the Phillies side, 12 but I am confident that, after having met with the 13 ownership of the Phillies, that we will reach 14 those kind of agreements with them also. 15
Well, of course, the 16 Phillies are a very special concern in view of the 17 long history that sort surrounds the Phillies in 18 the whole area of minority participation. So I 19 just think it's absolutely urgent that in both 20 cases, the Phillies and the Eagles, to pay full 21 attention. 22 And I think I certainly would like -- 23 and probably most Councilmembers would certainly want to feel that if, despite your best efforts, there remain problems, that they be brought to the 34 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, attention of the Council so that perhaps, working together, we can make further advances in this area.
I think one of the 6 things you will see, 'cause a lot of people keep 7 kind of comparing this to the Kvaerner situation, 8 but I think what you will see with both of the 9 stadiums is that we have a lot more lead time in 10 preparing the minority and women and disabled 11 community about the opportunities, which Charles 12 Solomon was talking about earlier. There is a 13 tremendous effort to do an outreach, to actually 14 bring in the firms who are interested, local firms 15 who are interested, and trying to match them up 16 with firms that could increase their capacity to 17 do work. 18 Our primary purpose is to make sure 19 that they aware of all the obstacles that may be 20 in front of them to participate, and then try and 21 systematically remove as many of them as we can. 22
Part of it is just to take a look at some history. You've got some of 35 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, the contractors, or the CMs in this instance, who have worked with businesses who've had bonding problems. And bonding is a huge problem for most businesses, but the point is, it has to do with the track record and financial capacity. So when you come to a project on day one, it's not a quick fix. However, in many instance, you have firms who are marginal firms, who could, with a little bit of help, a little bit of guidance, a little bit of leverage, get bonding and start that process to become a better firm, a more marketable firm, if you will. If you look at firms like Turner, for instance, on projects they've worked on, they have actually gone about and gotten firms bonding and work with them and work with the bonding companies to get bonding. The same is true with Driscoll in terms of being prepared to work with firms to help them grow their capacity. I think in this whole project, if you will, one of the things that we need to really focus on is what's the real impact, do we in fact make businesses better and can function beyond these projects in the next four or five years, and 36 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 I think that is part of the process we should look 3 very closely at. 4
Well, I remain 5 strongly opposed to the concept of the use of 6 public for funding, like in the stadiums 7 situation. Nevertheless, if there is to be any 8 kind of public funding, it seems to me to be a 9 special obligation to make sure that that public 10 funding goes in the correct directions, that it be 11 absolutely free of any elements of discrimination 12 of any kind, that it be spent fairly, you know, 13 and equally with everybody participating. And 14 that's why I raise those questions. 15
And will the rights 17 of workers to organize and to collect at 18 bargaining units in situations where that might 19 not already exist, will that also be recognized? 20
Councilman, I think 21 that those particular answers need to be asked of 22 the teams; we cannot respond to that. Most of the 23 activity that we will be involved in will already be addressed in that manner, but I think the question that you're asking is as to the 37 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, operations, and they can only respond to that.
And with respect to 4 the construction work, that's all going to be done 5 by union labor, correct? 6
'Cause I judge from 9 what took place in these chambers that that will 10 be a very urgent question. 11
From all I can see, 12 there's all indications. But, again, that's a 13 question I think you need to ask the teams 14 themselves. 15 Our part will be that once it's agreed 16 upon, whatever the agreement is, the level of 17 participation for minority, women, disabled 18 businesses for minority and women in the trades, 19 is to maximize the teams' opportunity to comply, 20 and their subcontractors or prime contractors to 21 achieve those levels or exceed those levels. 22
Well, I understood 23 from the discussions we had prior to the time the bill was passed by City Council that facts came out which indicated that there were working people 38 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, at various levels and for different groups, but connected with the stadium, that were working at minimum-wage levels. It seemed to me, and I hope to others, kind of shameful that in a development involving such huge sums of money that people ought to be employed at anything less than a wage which enables an ordinary person to maintain a family, an ordinary family of four, and a minimum wage often gets only half that level. I would certainly hope that if there are any such examples that come to the attention of -- to your attention as you work on this development, that they be brought to our attention, because while we did not reach a result, say, with respect to a requirement for a living wage, I think that question might well be revisited in the event that there are any examples of what appear to be almost subhuman kind of wages paid in the course of this development.
I doubt very seriously if 22 that's going to be the case. However, we will 23 monitor on the construction side all of the certified payrolls which will provide rates, paid hours worked, and we will look for compliance. If 39 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, there's some glaring problems there, we'll point that out immediately.
Will your 5 jurisdiction end after construction is completed? 6
We have proposed to go 7 through operations; we're still under discussions 8 with that at this point. Right now, we're looking 9 at the design and construction portion with the 10 Eagles. The Phillies we're still talking to. 11
But from a business 12 standpoint, the MBEC would be involved in assuring 13 opportunities during the operations of activity 14 and during the course of the lease. 15 (Unintelligible, parties talking over 16 each other.) 17
-- that the stadiums 18 are very much concerned about what might be 19 happening to them. 20
And I hear that 22 there have been some general assurances, but I 23 just think it very important that with all aspects of labor, that there be continuing review after the completion of the construction phase, that 40 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, there be continuing review of the labor policies both with respect to protecting the rights to organize and with respect to the level of income.
And I certainly urge 7 that upon -- as additional responsibility. 8 Madam President, I have further 9 questions that do not relate to the labor but that 10 go back to the question of the prime lease. Are 11 there people here that would be able to deal with 12 that? 13
Mr. Martin, I 14 believe, will be able to deal with that. 15
I think these 19 questions are in very competent hands. At least 20 to one phase of this, I think I can feel much more 21 comfortable than I have felt in the past. 22
Councilwoman Blackwell, your light is on. 41 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2
Thank you very much. I think that part of the questions with many of the Councilpersons is that if we knew, even talking about this master concessionaire contract, if we heard from your office or got a copy of anything or a letter from you stating what was going on, then it wouldn't be so much concern. Many of us have been trying to get a copy of certainly what's happening in MBEC, a yearly report, and that hasn't been forthcoming, the second part of the question. The third part, also, we have a Minority Affairs Officer in City Council. Obviously, you know him well, John Macklin, since he was your deputy. And we would request that you keep in constant communication with him and include him in meetings and in your negotiations, and then we would have one of our own who could at least hopefully better keep us informed about what's going on.
Question number one, we didn't send you a letter or a copy of a letter pertaining to the concession contract 'cause we 42 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, didn't get one, and we were never requested to send. Question number two, as it pertained to the annual report of MBEC, that information has been sent to the Finance Director, and it has been sent to the Chief of Staff for their dissemination, so once we got the request, that was (inaudible). And part of question number two, we believe that not only do we work with the Administration, but we are advocates for City Council so we take our fiduciary responsibility to City Council very seriously. At anytime that we can provide in my testimony -- in all of my testimonies for City Council for the budget, I have always put in information about our annual report within that testimony, so I've always tried to provide Council with some measure of the level of participation through those reports. And as far as question number three, keeping John Macklin informed, we have no problem with that.
We have worked with GPUAC at the University of Pennsylvania on 43 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, many projects. So we obviously have a modus operandi that works, and we know that they know to do this, to work with the community and to keep people informed. I think that, as the old folks say, it's not what you do, it's how you do it. If everybody feels included in the loop, then I think that there is certainly no way we could hold you responsible for that information you do not receive. But if know that, it keeps everything a lot clearer, and members here don't feel that they're being left out or not included in information. So we certainly make that request and say thank you for your cooperation in that regard. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. 19 Are there any other questions from 20 members of the committee? 21
Madam President, is 22 there going to be someone that can I raise some 23 basic questions about the lease with?
Yes. I believe I indicated that Mr. Martin is in the 44 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, audience, and he would be happy to come forward and answer any and all questions you may have, Councilman. Gentlemen, thank you very much.
Thank you. 8 (Mr. Martin and Ms. Cutler come 9 forward.) 10
Good afternoon, Marilyn. 14 Councilman? Councilman Cohen. 15
I'm not sure it 16 accurately represented Mr. Martin's feeling by 17 saying that he was happy to come to the witness 18 table. 19
He smiled 20 when I recognized him, so I just detected that he 21 was happy. 22
He walked steadily 23 and directly, and I'll assume that Madam President was absolutely accurate. One of the mysteries I have in the 45 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, lease agreements are phrases like this. Let's go back to Section 19.15 a. and then maybe d. of the prime lease. And with respect to respect to amendments, the language says: "The parties hereto from time to time may enter into amendments hereto (which thereafter shall form a part hereof) without the consent of any other parties only for the following purposes: to cure any ambiguity, defect or omission herein or in any amendment hereto or to supplement any provision hereof, provided such cure shall not materially adversely affect the Eagles, the bondholders, or the credit facility provider under the indenture." And I wonder why are all of the parties guaranteed that the amendments shall not materially adversely affect them, except that the City of Philadelphia, or only the bodies that represent them, are not given that identical protection.
All other parties are given that protection, but here we're told that amendments can take place and, as I read it, 46 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, it means that in the terms of the lease, they may materially affect the obligations of the City, which to me means more public money than what we believe we've authorized as a Council body going into this development. Why is -- why is the City omitted from that assurance?
Because the City is a 10 party to the agreement, and you can't amend the 11 agreement without the party agreeing. So 12 presumably, the City would not be agreeing to an 13 amendment which would materially adversely affect 14 it. 15
No, because they're not 18 parties to the agreement, so it could be amended 19 without their -- 20
By the "agreement," 21 you're saying the agreement between City and 22 PAID? 23
What's that? 47 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2
It would be the agreement that you quoted from, the prime lease.
The parties to the prime 7 lease are PAID and the City of Philadelphia. The 8 City of Philadelphia will not agree to an 9 amendment to the prime lease unless it decides to. 10
Does that same 14 answer apply to Section 19.15, subparagraph d., as 15 in "David," small letter d? 16
Could we have a 18 letter from the City Solicitor stating that? In 19 response to the question I raised? 20
Could you restate, 21 Councilman, what would be sought in the letter 22 that you request? 23
The reason I'd like that is, how does that protect the City Council? Suppose PAID and the City Administration changes 48 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, the terms of that prime lease? I'm concerned about the fact that there's no provision that would require that if it materially and adversely affected the City, that such change would have to come before the City Council. Otherwise, we basically go back to the original questions of Monday. It seems to me the City has no 10 protection if the Mayor, or those acting on behalf of the Mayor, decides in his wisdom that there should be, say, an additional obligation undertaken by the City, costing the City far more money. It seems to me that we are authorizing -- as a Council, we are authorizing in advance that the City can at all times increase its own obligations so that the City Council is not protected in its appropriation power, but all the teams are. Now, does -- you know, the City consists of two basic parts -- the legislation and the executive -- and you're giving total freedom to the executive to change the provisions of a contract without it having to come back to the City Council. 49 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2
I think you -- I think you overstate, Councilman, the amount of latitude that exists with the City. As I testified on Monday, I believe that a lot of comfort should be taken from language which is in Section 17.2 of the leaseback lease agreement between the City as landlord and PAID as the tenant, which indicates that that document -- that the Authority will not enter into amendments with its lease with the teams which will materially adversely affect its obligations, without the prior written consent of the City acting through City Council.
Well, I understood 15 on Monday that there was going to be an opinion 16 from the City Solicitor to that effect; I have not 17 seen it. Because I believe there is confusion. 18 The word "city" is used, but the word "city," when 19 it is used covers only the executive department of 20 the government; it does not cover the legislative 21 part. The Mayor has the authority, he directs, he 22 appoints members of PIDC and PAID. That's a part 23 of the executive department. And that, I agree, is fully protected, but it's protected to the point where he can make a decision totally at 50 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, variance with the decisions already made by City Council.
What protection does 7 our legislative authority have, and how do we 8 guarantee that the obligations of the taxpayers 9 will not be adversely affected by any amendments 10 unless we are in a position in City Council to 11 consider those changes and make a judgment with 12 respect to the desirability of those changes? How 13 else can we protect our constituents? 14
Councilman, I feel I must 15 point out that the documents you're referring to, 16 all of the leases other than the sublease, which 17 is the subject of this hearing, have been approved 18 by this Council. 19
Have been approved by this 21 Council, pursuant to ordinances which were passed 22 in December. Now, while I understand that you 23 were in the minority in voting against those ordinances --
-- those ordinances and the agreements attached, all of the agreements that you're questioning me about have already been approved by this body. And this body requested and received amendments to the ordinances as submitted, to provide it comfort that the executive branch could not arbitrarily increase the obligations of the City. And we've been careful in the preparation of the subleases to ensure that those documents impose obligations upon the City fully consistent with the terms sheets that were approved by this body and fully consistent with the ordinances and the economic analysis that was presented to this body back in December. So I think I've tried to point out to you, and I also do think that there's some work going on at the Law Department in response to your question on Monday, but I don't believe that at this point the work product has matured to the point of a formal opinion.
But would you agree with me that it's -- under the ordinance passed by the City Council by a 15-2 vote -- and, yes, I was 52 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, in the minority of 2, kind of proudly so, but in any event, I was in that minority. And I believe that what Council passed did in fact contain provisions that authorized the executive department of government to make changes of a very substantial nature increasing to an unlimited degree the liability of the City taxpayers without this Council as a legislative body carrying through its obligations under the Home Rule Charter to appropriate funding. And I'm asking --
I completely disagree with 14 you. 15 (Unintelligible, parties talking over 16 each other.) 17
I completely and utterly 18 agree with you. 19 (Unintelligible, parties talking over 20 each other.) 21
-- the City 22 Solicitor opinion stating that that will not 23 happen.
Councilman, I think with respect to your last question, you're asking very 53 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, specifically about the monetary obligations of the City.
And the ordinances that 6 this body approved in December with regard to the 7 underlying leases set limits for the bonds that 8 were to be issued by PAID for both the Eagles and 9 the Phillies stadiums. 10 In each case, they set a limit as to 11 the amount of debt that could be issued, and I 12 think it was stated repeatedly in the testimony to 13 the Council that the only circumstances where 14 there was any latitude with respect to money would 15 be the setting, for example, of the rates, the 16 interest rates, the kinds of things that the 17 Council historically has delegated to the Finance 18 Director to review at the time that bonds are 19 issued. And that was the case in this situation 20 as well. 21 The one exception where this Council 22 was told that there is some risk that is retained 23 by the City with regard to financial obligations would be the just compensation that the Board of View might ultimately find that would be due to 54 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, the owners of land condemned. And even with respect to that, the Council was told that if in fact there were additional dollars owed, that the City, the executive branch of the City would be coming to Council to obtain appropriations for those dollars in future years. So that, yes, the liability of the City is capped, there are approvals that are delegated on matters like interest rates to the Finance Director, as they always have been. By no stretch of the imagination do these documents give some kind of uncapped liability to the City either in the underlying leases or to the teams in their subleases.
Well, let me get 18 very specific about some concerns I have. For 19 example, five years down the road, the teams 20 decide that the contributions to the Children's 21 Fund are an onerous burden, and they establish 22 what they consider a good case for one reason or 23 another -- attendance is down, the revenue isn't what they thought it was, they haven't sold all of the super boxes, or some that they sold, the 55 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, payments are delinquent, or whatever, they have what an accountant might consider a very substantial case. And the then-mayor, whoever it is, maybe Councilman DiCicco or maybe Councilman Goode, Councilwoman Reynolds Brown, will make a decision saying, Well, that sounds reasonable and, therefore, the City no longer is going to require that. I would believe that such a decision cannot be made unless the issue is presented to the City Council and the City Council authorizes that kind of a change. I see nothing in any of the documents which guarantees that City Council would be involved in that decision. I believe that in the language that exists now, the Mayor may very well have that right. And to me, that constitutes an unlawful delegation of power by this body. I don't think we intend to do that, but I think we have done that. I think we have delegated our power to the executive branch, and that we cannot do that, and that's the reason I'm asking you go try to cover that by a letter to the City Solicitor. 56 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2
Councilman, I think we have covered that, and I think that Section 17.2 that Mr. Martin referenced a few moment ago covers it very specifically, that with regard to any kind of a change -- and just take, for example, the changes that you gave us as to the payment to the Children's Fund, that was a term of the terms sheet that this Council authorized in December, it is a part of the leases, in each lease with the Phillies and the Eagles, that they have a requirement to make that payment, that whether or not they get superbox revenues or sell enough tickets, they have a requirement to make the payment. What their lease says, or what the underlying lease says about the ability to change that kind of provisions is the following: that once the lease is fully executed, there cannot be a change that would materially adversely affect the obligations of the Authority -- PAID, in this case, as landlord -- that would in a way that it would be set forth in the Phillies lease, or that there could not be a change that would affect the Phillies and then, therefore, affect the landlord, 57 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 and that change cannot be made without the prior 3 written consent of the City acting through City 4 Council. 5 We were not silent on the prerogative 6 of the legislative branch. We made it clear that 7 PAID could not act unilaterally or with just the 8 executive branch authorization from the City, that 9 PAID would have to act with City Council's 10 approval as well. 11
Well, I hear you, 12 but I don't see the language in the leases that 13 supports that. And I think, in this case, the 14 Council and the community in South Philadelphia 15 are sort of on the same side, and I'm sure the 16 community feels that they don't want any 17 provisions, once they've reached the agreement, to 18 be able to be changed by any mayor in the future 19 unless it has come back to them and they've been a 20 party to the change. 21 And I think (indiscernible) is 22 absolutely right, I'm sure they're insisting on 23 that kind of thing, and that's what I think City Council also has to have. But I'm -- I guess we're not going to get beyond that point at this 58 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, time. Let me just raise what may be my final question. I am concerned about what I think is a clear violation of terms of a lease complying with the term lease position that we were told were going to happen. I thought that it was clear that the teams would have the responsibility for the full 30 years of maintenance to the stadium. And as I read the lease agreement, after years, the 11 most I can define it is, we get into a no-man's, 12 maybe a no-woman's, land where it is not clear 13 whose responsibility is whose, and it becomes the 14 team's responsibility for the last five years only 15 in the event the teams at that time decide to 16 renew their lease. 17 It seems to me that what is happening 18 is that 30 years in advance, the same scenario 19 that took place here in City Council is being 20 prepared for a replay 30 years hence, when the 21 teams will then come back -- 22 (Applause.) 23
-- and make the same kind of demands: your choice is new stadiums or go fix up and pay for all of the capital 59 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, operations and the maintenance of the stadiums over the last five years. I think there is a complete difference between those conditions that we were told were going to be in the lease and what exists in the lease. There was no such exception for the last five years or at any point in the lease.
Of the stadium, 13 Councilman. And I guess I've been looking in the 14 first instance of the Phillies lease, in 8.1.1, 15 Tenant Obligations, it couldn't be clearer. 16 Throughout the term of this agreement, the tenant 17 shall undertake and perform, or cause to be 18 undertaken or performed, and obtain or provide all 19 labor, personnel services, material, supplies, and 20 equipment needed to perform all maintenance and 21 repairs involving or relating to all or any part 22 of the stadium premises. 23 It is absolutely clear that for the entire 30 years of the term, the teams have the obligation to maintain the facilities. 60 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2
For the full 30 years, including the items that would be defined as capital expenditures?
The document makes a 6 distinction between maintenance and capital 7 repairs, as would any lease relating to real 8 property. And as to capital, as we testified on 9 Monday -- 10
There's nothing in 11 your lease terms, but the impression was clear in 12 the lease terms that the entire obligation for the 13 maintenance -- and that includes the appropriate 14 capital repairs. Now suddenly, we're told there's 15 a distinction between capital and maintenance and, 16 of course, the distinction that's being drawn is 17 that since capital really requires a lot more 18 money perhaps than maintenance, we, the teams, are 19 not going to be responsible for it during the last 20 five years unless we choose to renew the lease. 21
No, I don't think the 22 distinction is between capital and maintenance; 23 there is that distinction, there is also a distinction between capital as it relates to the lease term and capital as it may relate to a 61 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, period after the lease term. And the provision you're describing is one that reviews the status of the need for capital repair in the last five years prior to the expiration and attempts to provide for the potential apportionment of cost of capital for the period relating to the lease term, as contrasted with the period after the lease term will have expired. And, again, as I indicated on Monday, I believe that that is a provision that would have been fairly anticipated by the lease term language, and it is standard for a lease of this type of length.
I would have to 16 sharply disagree, Mr. Martin. I believe it's an 17 example of the kind of thing I thought was wrong, 18 that lawyer's language was used not to clarify but 19 to befuddle and to hide. And I must say that 20 that's my conclusion. I think it's a distinct 21 change from what we all understood was the 22 circumstance when that 30-year agreement was put 23 in as a term lease. Thank you, Madam President, at this time. 62 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2
Thank you very much. Do we have other members of Council who have questions to raise at this time? (No further questions.)
We are waiting 8 for some information that should be forthcoming, 9 so we're glad to entertain any questions if you 10 have them now. 11 (No further questions.) 12
Then let me 13 say that we will just stand in pause until we see 14 if we have additional information forthcoming. So 15 let's just wait a few minutes, if we could. 16
Madam Chair, are 17 there any other witnesses who are here who wish to 18 be heard who have not been heard yet? 19
Is there 20 anyone here who would like to speak before the 21 committee? 22 (No response.) 23
Thank you. This committee will stand in recess until 7 p.m. tonight. I'm sure you're all 63 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 overjoyed to hear that, 7 p.m. tonight. (Council stands in recess for two hours, then reconvenes at 7:30 p.m.) - - -
Good evening, everyone. This is the continued public hearing of Resolution No.'s 010020, 010021, 010022, and 010023. Our first witness will be Chuck Hardy. (Witnesses come forward.)
Jim, do you want to join the gentlemen at the table? No? Okay.
Thank you, Council President Verna. As you will recall, members of Council, I am Chuck Hardy, and I represent, together with Tyler Wren and Jim McEverly, who are with me at the table, the community groups whose residences are closest to the area where the new ballpark and the new stadium are proposed to be built. On Monday, we testified before Council at some length regarding issues directly affecting the community by the provisions of the leases. 64 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, And at that time, we were able to report that, with the exception of a single issue, the community was generally satisfied with the contents of the leases. The one issue, as Council will recall, had to do with something called "a theme tower," and the theme tower is a sign that is -- there currently is a theme tower on site down near Veterans Stadium, and the leases provide that the teams can have additional theme towers. The community groups understand that theme towers are a part of this deal, and although theme towers can be very intrusive, the community believed that the leases would protect them from what would be the worst effects of additional theme towers, which would be to have additional theme towers looming large and very close to the residences. I had passed out to the members who are here copies of a photo of what the theme tower looks like. The theme tower that you see in this photograph is 150 feet tall. It has two faces, which are animated and illuminated and which carry advertising and other messages hours a day, 7 65 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 23 days a week. These animated, illuminated signs shine towards the expressway as well as towards the neighbors' residences. As we described in our earlier testimony, they are visible from far away, they can be seen from -- the existing sign, which is approximately 200 feet from the corner of Tenth and Packer can be seen from Center City, it can be seen from residences on the south of I-76 and the approach to the Walt Whitman Bridge and from the north side. This one sign, which the community understands will remain as a preexisting use, is an intrusion on the quality of life of the community now. It was the understanding of the community at the time that the lease terms were negotiated, that the Eagles would place two -- up to two additional theme towers in the area near their stadium, close to I-95, south of Pattison Avenue and that the Phillies had the right to have two theme towers north of Pattison Avenue. One theme tower could be the existing tower and a second theme tower could be placed on the site in areas permitted by the lease. 66 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 Under the addendum to the lease -- and 3 it is a part of the Phillies' lease -- there are 4 different levels of parking area, and our concern 5 and the issue that we raised on Monday has to do 6 with where on the tenant parking areas of the 7 Phillies' lease the Phillies might place the 8 second theme tower. 9 The most intrusive and most difficult 10 siting from the community's point of view would be 11 a -- any location that was west of Tenth Street 12 and north of Pattison Avenue. That area of the 13 parking field is designated in the lease as 14 parking only or a limited-activity parking zone. 15 There are other areas to the north and to the west 16 of the ballpark site that are parking areas where 17 the siting of the theme tower is not prohibited or 18 restricted. 19 What we heard on Monday was that the 20 Philadelphia Authority for Industrial 21 Development's attorney interpreted the lease as 22 permitting a theme tower west of Tenth Street. 23 And as I explained, and Mr. Wren, in our testimony on Monday, we did not agree with that interpretation. Council President Verna asked us 67 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES.
010020, 21, 22, to recess and see if privately, the attorneys for the team -- for the Phillies and PAID and the community could reach some accommodation to resolve this issue, which, as I had described at that time, was very important to the community. We have been trying for the last two days to resolve this issue. We met immediately upon the suggestion of Council President Verna on Monday, we have met with the Mayor with regard to this issue. There has been correspondence and discussion among the attorneys with regard to this issue. And I am here to report that as of now, we have been unable to resolve the differences, in that the community still understands that the position of the Authority would be that if the Phillies proposed to place a second theme tower in what we call the "North Lot" -- and the North Lot is that area which is west of Tenth Street, the North Lot is that area which is designated parking only and limited-activity parking -- that if that was proposed by the Phillies, the Authority would not take a position that that was contrary to the lease; we do believe it is contrary to the lease. I met -- we met with our clients, the 68 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 representatives of the five South Philadelphia 3 community groups: the South Philadelphia Civic 4 Association, Stadium Community Council 5 Association, Veterans Stadium Neighbors, Packer 6 Park Civic Association, and Broad Street West. 7 And the representatives of the community continue 8 to feel as strongly, if not stronger than 9 previously, that a large, illuminated, animated, 10 150-tall, two-faced tower in the North Lot would 11 intrude upon their lives unnecessarily and would 12 be a violation of their understanding of what this 13 development was all about and the sensitivity that 14 this development was to have to the concerns for 15 quality of life of this neighborhood. 16 I have with me today several 17 representatives of the community groups who would 18 like to speak briefly, if they could, to 19 articulate in their own words their concerns with 20 regard to the -- 21
We would 22 certainly be very happy to hear their testimony. 23 However, before doing so, I want the record to reflect that I understand the communities' concerns regarding the Phillies lease agreement, 69 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, which the community strongly believes limits the use of the North Lot to parking only and other limited activity purposes. My staff and I agree with the community, but do understand that this is an interpretation of the lease which is open to opposing opinions. If our interpretation does not prevail, I assure you and the community that I will continue to support the community in their opposition to having a second theme tower, as envisioned in the lease on the North Lot. In the lease -- you know, I think we spent hours upon hours talking about what was permissible in the North Lot. And to my recollection, I never heard of the theme towers. However, that's behind us. All of the administrative procedures, I assure you, will be followed, in that all approvals necessary for the placing of any structure on the North Lot or elsewhere will be strictly enforced, including approvals from PAID, the Planning Commission, the Art Commission, and the Zoning Board. The Mayor realizes that this is not a 70 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 settled issue, and as of 6 p.m. this evening, he 3 assured me that all due process will be provided 4 and that discussions concerning the placement of 5 any theme park will be ongoing, and that he will 6 be personally involved. 7 I really feel very badly about this 8 issue. I regard the members of this community as 9 my extended family. My God, I think I've seen 10 more of them in the past weeks than I have in fact 11 my family, and I just want to assure them that 12 they will continue to have my support in the 13 future on this issue and if and when -- if and 14 when -- that issue arises. 15 It has not been specifically stated 16 that the second tower will be placed on the North 17 Lot. We can all presuppose where it will be, but 18 I don't think it's been eminently clear to me 19 where the Phillies intend to put that second theme 20 tower. I know it's very large and I know the 21 concerns that the community has, but until such 22 time as the Phillies come before -- go before any 23 of the commissions for approval, there is really nothing we can do. They are merely -- we are merely presupposing where that second tower would 71 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 be located. 3 So, Mr. Hardy, I want to assure you 4 that we will not sit idly by if the community is 5 in fact still opposing it. They certainly will 6 have the right to go before every one of the 7 commissions that I have mentioned, and they will 8 certainly have the opportunity to go before the 9 Zoning Board. 10 So until that time, I just don't know 11 what else we can do. 12
Well, thank you very much 13 for those words of support for the community. 14 I would hope that the Phillies would 15 listen carefully and take heed that it really does 16 seem potentially very ill-advised to propose a 17 theme tower here, if there are other reasonable 18 alternatives. And if there are not, the community 19 is adamantly opposed to it being in the North Lot, 20 but we do thank you. 21 And I would very much like to 22 introduce -- 23
And I believe, Mr. Hardy, we have had assurances from the attorney for the Eagles that we will be 72 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, notified prior to their going to the Art Commission or --
I'm sorry. 7 I'll tell you, we're all getting brain-dead at 8 this point. 9 We will be notified prior to any 10 application that they make before any one of the 11 commissions. 12
I think we've seen a draft 13 letter that would propose that. We haven't seen 14 it in file, but -- 15
I think we've seen a draft 18 letter that would propose that. I don't know that 19 it's final, but -- 20
Mr. Martin, 21 Mr. Martin, do we have a final letter? Is that 22 the one that was given to me this morning? Do we 23 have a final letter from the Phillies?
(Off-mic., not entirely audible.) One of the letters that was given to 73 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, you this morning was the letter referring to my letter to you on Monday dealing with all of the issues of the theme tower.
We have a 6 copy of that. Has that been distributed to -- I 7 think that was going to be distributed to the 8 attorneys? You did receive a copy of that 9 letter? 10
Okay. And 12 that says absolutely nothing about the tower. 13
There was another letter 14 that was being prepared; it has not been 15 finalized, as I understand. 16
Council President, I think 17 the new microphones are good enough. If I stand, 18 I can be heard. David L. Cohen, counsel for the 19 Phillies. 20 I'm happy to represent that if helpful 21 to the process, that the draft of the letter that 22 we transmitted to the Council President and her 23 staff and to Mr. Hardy and Mr. Wren on Monday, that we can have that and prepare it in final form and signed by Mr. Montgomery by first thing 74 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, tomorrow morning, if that is something that is helpful to the process.
In fact, Council President 12 Verna, I will tell -- we will do this -- assuming 13 I have the capacity, we will either do it tonight 14 or first thing tomorrow morning, and I will make 15 sure that it's faxed to Mr. Hardy and to Mr. Wren 16 as well as to you before 9 o'clock tomorrow 17 morning, and we'll be here with -- 18
How much 19 advance notice under normal circumstances would 20 one receive -- 21
Under normal circumstances, 22 we -- what we had in the letter was, I believe, 23 seven days before we go to PAID. Under normal circumstances, there would have been no advance notice. And I think we did seven days before we 75 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, went to the Planning Commission as well.
So -- and to give a sense 9 of -- I mean, we're attempting to be helpful 10 here. PAID itself, I believe, only has 15 days to 11 review the submission, so because of the tight 12 timeframe here, we were trying to provide enough 13 time where there legitimately would be opportunity 14 for discussion. 15 You also remember, Council President 16 Verna, that at your suggestion, we also included a 17 commitment to give the community an opportunity 18 for input into the proposal before it was 19 submitted. 20
I said we have also 23 committed in the letter to provide an opportunity for the community to have input into any proposal before it was submitted either to PAID or to the 76 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, Planning Commission.
Thank you. 4 Thank you very much. 5 Mr. Hardy, would you call your first 6 witness, please. 7
Yes. I'd like to ask Mary 8 Richards to come forward. She is the Vice 9 President of Stadium Community Council 10 Association. 11 Oh, I'm sorry, of Veterans Stadium 12 Neighbors. 13
My name is Mary 16 Richards, Vice President of Veterans Stadium 17 Neighbors. I'll be very brief, very quick, and 18 I'm also very nervous about this. 19 I live next door to the practice field 20 and the bowl. I've lived there since 1954, when 21 it was all empty ground. We fought against the 22 Vets Stadium, and we lost. We fought against 23 trash-to-steam, and we won. We fought against the stadiums, but we didn't gain one, we gained two now. Now we're going to have four when Vets 77 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, Stadium is knocked down. I live on the east side of Broad. We have traffic, parking, noise, and all of the pollution that you can imagine in our neighborhood. We have to reschedule all activities, anything we do, around these four complexes. We negotiated with the Mayor, we negotiated with the Phillies, and we made very many concessions on many fronts. We asked for parking only on the north parking lot, on the north parking lot. Now we're told that the theme tower -- in addition to the theme tower that we have now, they want to put another one. To me, that doesn't mean "no parking." I want to thank you, Council President Verna, for your help. But we feel that promises were broken. We shook hands, but it didn't mean too much because now, we're back, here after being notified on Friday that the Phillies saying that they can -- that they would like the right to put another theme tower in the north parking lot, when explicitly we said nothing about any structure of any kind on the north parking lot. 78 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 Not only will this flashing tower be an 3 intrusion, an aggravating effect on our homes, how 4 can we believe anything or how can we feel 5 comfortable with anything that we negotiate with 6 at this point? 7 I want to thank you, and I hope that 8 everybody will consider how we feel. 9
I'd like to call now Judy 12 Cerrone, who is the President of the Stadium 13 Community Council Association. I got that right 14 this time. 15 (Witness comes forward.) 16
Council President Verna, 17 before I begin, I'd like to read a letter from 18 Monsignor Connelley, Pastor of Stella Maris Church 19 into the record into the record. 20
I am addressing the 22 members of City Council at the request of 23 Monsignor James F. Connelley, Pastor of Stella Maris Church and School. Stella Maris Parish consists of 3300 member families and also includes 79 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, the area of the sports complex. Monsignor is unable to attend because he is visiting the sick of the parish at local hospitals today. He has asked me to convey to you the complete support of his parish family, and especially to express his adamant opposition to the construction of an additional theme tower anywhere in the North Lot parking-only zone and the limited-activity parking zone. Stella Maris Parish is one of the few growing parishes in South Philadelphia, and he wants it to continue to grow. He believes a strong parish is a strong future. Monsignor's understanding was that the parish's main issue was to preserve the north parking lot for parking only. According to his briefings as of December 8, 2000, he was satisfied that this issue had been resolved and that the North Lot was a parking-only zone. Monsignor sends his regrets that he is unable to attend in person to issue this statement. He hopes that all parties involved in this process will honor their original commitment to preserve the parking-only zone in the North 80 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 Lot. 3 I thank the City Council for allowing 4 me to read Monsignor's position into the record. 5
You're welcome. 8 For myself, as President of Stadium 9 Community Council, I didn't write anything. Most 10 of the City Councilmembers that have been around a 11 long time know me. The new ones that don't, it's 12 nice to meet you. 13 I just wanted to say a few things. I'm 14 going to call myself a "NIMBY" tonight. I know 15 many, many times through the years that we've 16 appeared in City Council, they called South 17 Philadelphia NIMBYs, and we were annoyed by it, 18 but "not in my backyard" stands today, and I will 19 honor that word. 20 Just I want to remind City Council that 21 Spring Garden said no, Chinatown said no. The 22 Mayor came down, showed us three proposals, the 23 next day appeared on television and said we had accepted one -- which was not true. And the next day, had a meeting at Stella Maris to show all the 81 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, people what we had accepted when our community had no idea, neither did we, that we had accepted it. We knew that we were on ground zero, and eventually, it was come down to be dumped in South Philadelphia. The only thing that we have to say is we negotiated in good faith. We gave more than we anticipated to give to the Phillies. We had made up our minds on where we would bend and where we wouldn't. m. and got home at 2 o'clock the following morning. It was a strain on our, lives, our families, our children, and we don't get paid for this. The neighbors are not aware, they're not aware of the fact that there are concerts, which we had decided we would oppose, and we gave them eleven. We moved the distance from the nearest home to the stadium back, at the request of the Phillies. The nearest ramp right now from the stadium of Veterans Stadium is 150 feet from our nearest home. We conceded everything that Mr. Montgomery practically asked for. The only 82 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 thing we've said was not to have in the North Lot 3 for anything but parking, which he agreed upon. 4 But at the eleventh hour, on the night of December 5 7th, the Mayor gave us two minutes to put five 6 things on a piece of paper that were our most 7 important issues, which he negotiated supposedly 8 in a private room with the teams and ran back and 9 forth, gave each of us a hug from my community, 10 and talked us into agreeing. 11 We had never heard the word "plaza" 12 mentioned until December the 7th, the night that 13 that it was supposed to be introduced to City 14 Council. We were completely in the dark about a 15 plaza area. So even though we moved stadium 16 farther from our homes, the plazas then, once 17 again, brought the distance closer. 18 So I feel like we've been duped. The 19 tower itself -- my son's bedroom faces west -- 20 east. My brother lives with my parents, who are 21 in their eighties, six doors away, and his bedroom 22 faces east. All of the homes on Broad and 13th 23 and Juniper, their bedrooms face east. That sign shines and flashes all night in each bedroom window, which I think is a quality-of-life issue. 83 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 Now, they'll say, Well, just close your blinds or 3 close your shades. We don't have to do that. 4 Geary Street gets it in their front window. 5 Now, since Mr. Montgomery -- we bent on 6 all of these things, and nothing whatsoever was 7 mentioned to us except that North Lot would be 8 pristine parking. He has since given us kiosks -- 9 which I had never heard of in my life until Friday 10 night, nor towers. Twenty-eight kiosks, which are 11 twelve feet tall, eighty banners. 12 Our neighborhood is becoming a circus 13 carnival atmosphere. It is still our 14 neighborhood. The people there built and lived 15 since 1954, and 80 percent are over 80 years old. 16 They should not have to be subject to this kind of 17 treatment.
18 I know that most of our Councilpeople 19 are very big on quality-of-life issues, but it 20 seems to me right now that when it comes to money, 21 the quality of life is being put second. But it 22 won't be put second by the people. They are not 23 informed yet about this tower in our community. Once we inform them, we are going to have a complete uproar. 84 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, We know you have done everything you can, and we sincerely appreciate everything you've done to help us. The Mayor tells us to trust him, but Mr. Montgomery will not remove it. I have personally asked him, the attorneys have dealt with him, they have dealt with his attorneys; he wants to leave the option open. It has to come west, a 150-foot tower. To come west, it would have go behind 13th or behind Geary, which would have two monster flashing signals in our bedrooms. I think that is absolutely Ludicrous to expect to us accept it. We've bent on every other issue given, and more than we ever planned to, but we draw the line with this second sign. We're not saying he can't have it; we're saying it can't be built in the North Lot. There are alternatives we would be glad to work with him with, but it will not go into the North Lot. I thank you for your time and I appreciate it. Thank you.
Next, I'd like to ask Tony 85 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, Greco to come forward. Mr. Greco is the President of the South Philadelphia Community Civic Association. (Witness comes forward.)
As you're aware, for the 11 last 30 years, we've had quite a bit of negative 12 experience with the existence of the Veterans 13 Stadium. In this whole process, two other 14 communities have rejected the Phillies. 15 And by the way, before I go forward, I 16 want to commend the Eagles for their part that 17 they played in this process. We feel that they 18 were very fair with us, and we really didn't have 19 too many problems at all to reach agreement with 20 the Eagles where we are today. However, I'm very 21 sad to say, we're not there with the Phillies this 22 evening. 23 Again, two communities have rejected the Phillies -- the Chinatown community and the Broad and Spring Garden community. Yet they came 86 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, back to South Philadelphia, and we eventually accepted them again. We probably shouldn't have, with the experience that we had with them, but we did. The City and the Phillies in this whole process promised to reverse the ills of the past and protect homes, our community, while providing a world-class complex. Now we're on the doorstep of completing this whole long process and the Phillies seem to be showing their colors again by forcing a second theme tower in the North Lot, the lot that was always the bone of contention with anything being there other than parking. Now we're in the process of beginning a new phase with a Stadium Special Services District, with the Phillies being a partner, and we have a very, very strained relationship this evening because of this tower. The only thing I can say to the Phillies at this point is that we're very angry, and enough is enough. I think they're very ungrateful to try and force this on us after everything and all of the concessions we've made with them, how fairly we've dealt with them, and 87 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 we've accepted more than we should have. 3 And I'd like the Phillies to step 4 forward and do something for the community for 5 once and agree not to put it in the North Lot. 6 And as Judy said, we're not saying no second 7 tower; we just don't want it in the North Lot, and 8 I think that's the least they can do after going 9 through this whole process with us. 10 Thank you. 11
Thank you, Tony. I'd like 14 to now call Barbara Capozzi, who is the President 15 of the Packer Park Civic Association. 16
I will be brief. ), who 18 couldn't make it back. He was here this 19 afternoon. 20 So what you've heard from is five 21 community groups who are all absolutely united in 22 our feelings, and I think that's unprecedented in 23 any city, but it's unprecedented here. And the reason that we've come together so well and we've worked together so well in the last year at least 88 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, is because we're faced with something that's also unprecedented, which is four active facilities in one area. I have asked everybody, and I don't think there's a place in the country that even has three. So that's unprecedented. What we've given up in December -- on December 7th alone what we conceded to, just to get a spot for parking only that's right behind their homes. We gave up major things, and we got things too. And, again, I wanted to start my statement by thanking you so much, Council President Verna, for all of your help and all your patience in listening to us and supporting us and your words tonight, I wrote down every one of them and I hope everybody else did too, because that means everything to us, and we'll make sure that our community understands them. And I want to thank the other Councilpeople who came back late tonight also. I'm sure this issue is ad nauseum to everybody. " We negotiated so hard for parking only, and Friday, 89 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 at 4 o'clock, we understand that it's parking 3 only, but you never said that you didn't want a 4 150-foot theme tower. I mean, it's -- we could 5 never sell this to our constituents, and we have 6 -- we -- you may not believe this, but we are the 7 most reasonable in our neighborhood. We have 8 fought our own boards, we have fought our own 9 neighbors to try to convince them that this 10 stadium's going to do good things for us, this 11 district's going to do good things for us. And I 12 think that in the end, we can sell that. We can 13 sell the things that we just heard about -- 14 banners, kiosks; I think we can sell some of those 15 things provided we have some input into how close 16 they are to the homes. 17 But we just cannot slip in a 150-foot 18 tower. We have one, we -- none of us was around 19 when that one happened, but if we had had our 20 choice, it wouldn't. We just can't say, Gee, 21 guys, we didn't come back to you on this one 22 'cause we just didn't think it was -- you know, 23 we thought it was included. We couldn't possibly sell it, so that means it's going to come back to us, it's going to come back to you, it's going to 90 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 come back to anybody else that they can reach. 3 And I don't know, I think we've taken 4 an awful lot. 5 I just want to clarify. They did say 6 that Spring Garden and Chinatown fought, but they 7 fought one stadium; we're going to end up with 8 four, and they're very active buildings, as 9 everybody knows. 10 And I want the rest of Council to know 11 that we're not unreasonable, although sometimes I 12 think people think that. But, for example, about 13 four months ago, the Mayor sent Joe Martz to us, 14 and we all sat in a room, just the five of us and 15 Joe Martz, who we very much appreciate also. And 16 he talked to us about something about the X Games, 17 which we had never heard about, never heard about 18 it. He said, This is what we can do, this is -- 19 we worked it out in an hour and a half, two hours. 20 Of course, now we find out that it 21 means 200,000 people. I mean, he told us some of 22 that. I think the ramifications are greater than 23 what we all thought, but we sat down and were very reasonable. He said, Look, this means 40 to $50 million for the City, it's two weeks in 91 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 August, it's quiet, we'll give you everything and 3 police protection. We worked it out, and I think 4 we were very reasonable.
5 Now, our neighbors don't know about the 6 X Games yet, they don't, right? They don't know 7 about it, haven't heard about. I mean, if they've 8 read the papers, they know, but I don't think they 9 understand implications. And we go to them time 10 and time again to sell these things. 11 But when there's a point -- when it 12 comes to something that we just don't think we can 13 sell, we have to let you know. And here it is, 14 it's a 150-foot theme tower in the parking-only 15 zone. We're not saying they can't have it. I 16 think they're being very gracious saying that they 17 can have it somewhere further east. I mean, 18 further east is still going to be visible; it's 19 just not going to be right in everybody's face. 20 So I thank everybody for their 21 patience. And your words mean a lot to us. Thank 22 you for your help. 23
Yes. Thank you, 92 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, Madam Chair.
Oh, I'm 4 sorry, I'm sorry. Mr. Hardy, do you have another 5 witness? 6
I will present a typical 9 South Philadelphia resident here, Judge Alex 10 Bonavitacola. 11 JUDGE BONAVITACOLA: My name's Alex 12 Bonavitacola. I'm a resident of the area west of 13 Broad Street within three blocks of the existing 14 Vets Stadium for the last 36 years. 15 Our appreciation goes out to you, 16 Council President, for being so patient and 17 listening to the complaints and the concerns of 18 the residents on both sides of Broad Street. And 19 of course, we thank the other members of Council 20 who are sitting here at this late hour and have 21 done so before in order that we may air our 22 grievance. 23 What is our grievance? I think the grievance is that there is a point at which you draw a line in the sand and you say, "I will not 93 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, yield one more inch," and that's where we are with the theme tower. Actually, it's a 150-foot high, double-faced billboard, electronic, and it's on all night, with moving figures and flashing signals and advertising. This would now intrude on the west side of Broad Street because it is so high, so large, and so bright that we are going to have them shining into the bedrooms and into the living rooms of the houses on the west side of Broad Street, some of which recently sold for in the neighborhood of $300,000. The neighborhood is not unreasonable. We have negotiated with the Eagles for their practice facilities, which was a commercial-type intrusion into what was formerly a hospital site, and we worked out most of those arrangements. We have worked with the Phillies and with the Eagles, but one of the requirements was that the North Lot be reserved for parking, because as it stands presently, there is projected to be a 6,000-car deficit when it comes to parking for the facilities that are being erected. So, therefore, that is the line in the 94 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 sands, and our neighbors just do not want to yield 3 one more inch for one more thing. 4
Thank you, 5 Your Honor. 6 JUDGE BONAVITACOLA: Thank you. 7
Mr. Hardy, 8 did you do you have any other witnesses to 9 testify? 10
Councilman 13 Rizzo, do you want to be recognized? 14
Thank you, Madam 15 Chair. 16 I just want to refresh everyone's 17 memory on something that was said. Now that the 18 community is here, I just want to repeat what the 19 Phillies' Dave Montgomery said the other day when 20 I asked about the possibility of limiting the 21 amount of time that the sign would be illuminated, 22 that it could possibly be some consideration of 23 it, and the Phillies stated they made a tremendous amount of concessions to the community. And I honestly think that it's just the opposite. Maybe 95 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, the Phillies made many concessions, but certainly the community in this entire negotiation, I think, has made many, many, many concessions, especially when it's in their neighborhood. It's hard for me to believe and maybe for the counsel to the community group. We know how many seats are going to be in the new Phillies facility, we probably even know how many light bulbs are going to be in that building. And it's hard for me to believe that we don't know, and the Phillies can't tell us, if they're going to do it, put the second sign up or whether they're going to put the second tower in the North Lot. In your conversations with the Phillies, did anyone ask if there's a plan that shows the two towers and where they're in the plan, where they're positioned? Because I think this would be so easy if we could just get the Phillies to say, Look, that's where we plan to put it, but we're going to put it someplace else because of the reaction from the community. I just can't figure why, based on this project, when every bit of detail is probably there -- the colors of the lavatories they 96 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 probably know. And I just can't understand at 3 this point why they can't be specific on, yes, 4 that's where we'd like it to be, or no, or we're 5 only going to continue with the one. 6 So I think that it would be to 7 everyone's benefit to know exactly what their plan 8 is, and I just don't understand why they can't be 9 specific at this point and say, Yes, that's where 10 we want it. And now they know, and as long as I'm 11 around here, I'll support the community and go to 12 any meetings I need to go to, to the Zoning Board, 13 you name it, Art Commission, to oppose it being in 14 the North Lot. 15 So I just can't figure out why they 16 can't come off dead-center here and tell us that 17 that's not where it's going to be and that it will 18 be in an alternative location that would be 19 satisfactory to the community. 20
The community certainly 21 agrees with you, Councilman Rizzo, that they 22 should be in a position to do that. Every time 23 we've asked for specifics on plans, we've been told that the planning process was not that far along. They, in fact, to this date have told us 97 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, that they can't even be sure precisely where on their plan the stadium is going to -- the ballpark is going to be, that it might have to shift left or right, and where the restaurant or the retail space might be. They have a variety of reasons, and rather than repeat them to you, I'd let you ask the Phillies representatives directly. But one of our big frustrations is that this fast track of getting the leases approved has happened in an environment where we really don't have the details that enable to us evaluate the impact of the construction on our neighborhoods.
Well, with that 15 said, I think tonight you've heard President 16 Verna, you've heard other members of Council 17 either on the record or off the record too. I 18 think we've all suggested that since there is some 19 vagueness at this point, that if there's ever an 20 attempt to put that in the North Lot, that I know 21 I would be supportive of the community and to try 22 to do whatever, and I'm sure there's other 23 members, and I'm not speaking for them, and you heard the President, and you heard the Phillies themselves, the representative of the Phillies say 98 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, that it would be unlikely that the Phillies would move forward and try to put this in the North Lot based on the commitments that were made from the elected officials. So I think basically that that's where we are, and I think that, unfortunately, that that detail's not available to us right now that's in there, but I think we've sent a message that-- don't try to put it in the North Lot or you're going to run into a lot of problems with the community, with elected officials -- again, me specifically. So let's hope they'll listen.
Councilman 17 Rizzo, you certainly know that Councilman Cohen 18 would certainly be joining you at the Zoning 19 Board. 20
You're 23 welcome. Mr. Hardy, do you have any other witnesses? 99 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2
I'm sorry. 4 Councilman, your light's on and yet it's not 5 reflecting on my board. 6
Some of us come 7 pretty late to the question of the theme tower. 8 And as a veteran of the trash-to-steam battle -- 9 (Applause.) 10
-- which was a good 11 battle to win for everybody, financially, 12 health-wise, and so forth. 13 But I'm listening and I'm trying to 14 figure out what could be so important about a 15 theme tower that the Phillies would be ready to 16 cause everything to collapse? Is there -- have 17 the Phillies ever given an answer? You know, is 18 this going to produce a season in which the 19 Phillies don't end up toward the bottom? Is it 20 going to end a hundred years of being the kind of 21 the most futile baseball club in baseball 22 history? 23 What is it about this particular theme tower that prevents the Phillies from saying, absolutely to the community, you've given much. 100 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, Maybe we think we've given much as the Phillies, we've given much, but we're not going to continue this torment of the people of South Philadelphia because we feel the same aggravation for our President as the community does, and we know -- you know, we know the degree to which South Philadelphians for many, many years have cooperated. There used to be an old statement, "If you can't put it anywhere else, dump it in South Philly, they'll take it." And maybe many South Philadelphians feel that way. But for the life of me, I'm trying to make sense out of this. Now, I'm not a supporter of the public monies for the stadium, I'm not opposed to stadiums, but I just don't understand it at this late stage of the game, this intransigence by the Phillies. Have they given you a statement as to why this is a matter of life and death to them?
They have given us no such 23 statement. In fact, they came to the community and said they wanted a world-class venue to mount baseball games, and when we asked them, What does 101 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, a theme tower have to do with that goal? they were unable to create a link that makes any sense to the community.
Mr. Cohen, 6 would you want to respond to this question, 7 please, so that -- let's get it all on the record. 8
It makes no sense 9 whatever for this issue to be such an enormously 10 important issue for the Phillies that it appears 11 to be the break point. It appears the Phillies 12 have drawn a line in the sand. 13
It's hard to answer this 14 question in the abstract, and I'll try not to 15 repeat everything that we said about this on 16 Monday. 17 But with the Phillies, our -- what the 18 Phillies have -- the Phillies' position has been 19 very simple, which is, we think we bargained for 20 something back in December, we have our 21 interpretation of what we bargained for. But the 22 one thing that I don't think anyone would disagree 23 is that we bargained for the right to attempt to design our baseball ballpark in a way that makes sense for the team, for its fans, for the City, 102 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, and for the community. And we have not had an opportunity to do that yet. And just in partial response to Councilman Rizzo's comments, I think I need to remind everyone that the first that we heard -- the first that the Phillies heard that they were going to be on this particular site was -- I think the date is November 20th of the year 2000. And as a result, we have not had the opportunity to do the design work that, for example, the Eagles have had, having known of their probable site for well in excess of a year. And the simple request is and the simple position that we took on Monday is that we want the opportunity to attempt to design our ballpark, the parking lots, the entire environment around there, including the theme towers in a way that we think makes sense within an overall integrated design plan. Theme towers are complicated animals. They have multiple uses, they have multiple purpose. They have a revenue purpose and there is no doubt that the revenue that is generated by theme towers is significant; it's why the Phillies 103 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 bargained for two theme towers instead of the 3 existing one, and it's why the Eagles bargained 4 for two theme towers where there are none today, 5 with the revenues going to the Eagles. 6 But theme towers also help serve as 7 signature or as a frame for the design of the 8 complex. They can be used to enhance naming 9 rights and recognition of what the Phillies 10 ballpark is going to be known as. And we just 11 have not had an opportunity to explore any of 12 those issues in the kind of detail that we think 13 that this requires. 14 And I -- I said on Monday, I will 15 repeat it again, it is in Mr. Montgomery's letter 16 to the Council President, that when the Phillies 17 say that they are not willing to agree today not 18 to put a theme tower on the north -- I'll call it 19 "on the North Lot," I think we all understand 20 what we mean when we say that. That is not to say 21 that the Phillies are insistent that they are 22 going to put a theme tower on the North Lot. 23 It is only that they want the opportunity to attempt to design their ballpark and the 80-plus acres north of Pattison Avenue 104 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 that are their responsibility under this sublease 3 that is before City Council and to have a dialogue 4 with the community and with the Council President 5 and to try and create an overall design concept, 6 including the theme towers, that make sense for 7 the team, for its fans, for the City, and for the 8 community as a whole. 9 And I do understand the community's 10 sensitivity to this. In response to someone's 11 statement there -- may have been more than one -- 12 the message has clearly been received loud and 13 clear. It is a message, to be perfectly candid, 14 as the Council President knows, we heard on 15 Monday, we heard before Monday. But by the same 16 token, we think we have the right to rely on the 17 agreement that we have negotiated and to attempt 18 to design this overall concept in a way that makes 19 sense, with the full recognition that if we fall 20 afoul of the community's wishes here, that we're 21 going to have an awful lot of explaining to do.
22 And as I said on Monday, the likelihood of our 23 being able to get a theme tower in a place where the Council President, for one, is vehemently opposed to it is so small that I would not like to 105 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, quantify it.
It would seem to me 6 that what the other David Cohen has just said, if 7 the likelihood is so small, I cannot understand 8 why you cannot forego it. Why can you not say 9 that we haven't had the time to design it? 10 Certainly, it was not Council that prevented you 11 from having the time, it was not the community 12 that prevented you from having the time. If there 13 were a physical obstacle there that prevented you 14 from you building it there, you would accept that 15 and you would design around it. 16 Why can't you give the community the 17 comfort it obviously so desperately needs if it's 18 going to sell the rest of the proposal to the 19 community? Why can't do you that? It seems like 20 such a simple thing, and that's why everybody is 21 so concerned and so suspicious. 22
Unfortunately, Councilman, 23 it's not a simple thing, and we're not prepared to give up rights that we've already negotiated. Like the community -- and I guess this is a sign 106 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, of a good deal -- the Phillies also believe that they have given up significant amounts in the negotiations that took place in December. And while we are respectful and thankful for the cooperation that the community showed, we think people also need to be respectful and thankful of the significant compromises that the Phillies made in these negotiations, and we're just not prepared to make any further concessions at this time.
But you heard them 13 say they do not have any sense whatever that they 14 have ever agreed to what you say they agreed to. 15
You know, I think 21 what -- you know, forgive me, 'cause I don't mean 22 to be disrespectful but, you know, those of us who 23 are members of the bar are often accused of talking and occupying time but saying nothing, and that's the only interpretation I can make of your 107 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, statement. It seems to me so simple for the Phillies, if they had the proper motives, to come together in a moment's notice to say, Community, we understand your deep concerns, let's make it clear we were not -- we're not going to build there. I just can't see the difficulty in that. Unless you do intend to build there. Thank you, Madam President.
You're 12 welcome. 13 The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke. 14
Thank you, Madam 15 Chair. 16 Madam Chair, I just wanted to state for 17 the record, understanding the nature of these 18 bills, this is only the beginning, and there will 19 be numerous commitments made both to the residents 20 on the participation plan and other issues as it 21 relates to this particular deal in both stadiums. 22 And I just want to state that you've shown a 23 willingness and a commitment to support me as a Councilperson as we've talked about the issues that are important to us in this particular 108 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, transition. And I just want to say that the support, as it relates to your needs for the community, will be there from this 5th District Councilperson as we move ahead, as we implement this particular project.
The Chair 11 recognizes Councilwoman Miller. Your light was 12 on? 13
No, I didn't push 14 my light; I think someone pushed it by mistake. 15 But I would also look to say, since 16 it's on, I'll say that, you know, certainly, I 17 think that the community has expressed, and I've 18 seen how patient you've been in understanding and 19 listening to their concerns, and I think it's 20 important that we listen to the concerns of 21 residents when such large facilities are going to 22 be built that will impact their daily living. 23 So you also have my support and the community has my support too to do whatever I can to support the efforts to satisfy everyone. 109 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2
Any other 6 questions or comments from members of the 7 committee? 8 (No further questions.) 9
Thank you. 13 Our next witness, I believe, will be 14 Mr. Martin. 15 (Witness comes forward.) 16
Mr. Martin, 17 thank you. I believe the letters have been 18 distributed to all Councilmembers. 19 Mr. Martin, do you want to read the 20 letters into the record? 21
Council President, I -- it 22 was not my intent to read the letters but, rather, 23 to --
Explain them? 110 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2
To provide a summary. My name is William Martin. I'm providing testimony on behalf of the Administration. And Mayor Street had asked me to put on the public record two letters, which were delivered to him earlier today. One letter is from the Philadelphia Eagles, dated January 30, 2001, addressed to the Honorable John F. Street, and it is signed by Joe Banner, re Eagles Professional Football Stadium. The second letter is from the Philadelphia Phillies, dated January 29, 2001, to Mayor Street from David Montgomery, re Phillies Ballpark. What each of these letters constitute are clarifications of the teams' respective economic opportunity plans, which were included as exhibits to the leases. And I'll just take a couple minutes to summarize first the Eagles letter and then the Phillies letter. But I think at its most significant points, the letter from Mr. Banner to the Mayor provides -- it references the Eagles' retention of the Greater Philadelphia Urban Affairs Coalition to provide assistance in 111 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 monitoring the project, and it wanted to confirm 3 to the Council through the letter that the Eagles 4 have no plans to replace GPUAC, and if the 5 (indiscernible) was unable to continue to assist 6 with the project, the Eagles would advise the 7 Mayor and City Council and select a suitable 8 replacement. 9 The letter continues to confirm the 10 team's commitment to exercise good faith to 11 achieve participation percentages and goals of 12 35 percent for minority-owned businesses, 13 12 percent for female-owned businesses, and 14 2 percent for disabled-owned businesses in the 15 construction of the project. 16 And while the economic opportunity plan 17 provides for exceptions relating to certain 18 categories of the excluded items, the letter from 19 the Eagles emphasizes that exceptions are meant to 20 be limited in scope to a limited category of sole 21 source or specialty items and that the exceptions 22 do not diminish the commitment of the Eagles to 23 achieve participation in the project, consistent with its goals, and that even in the case of sole- source or limited-source contracts, quote, the 112 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 Eagles will make good-faith efforts to include 3 MWDs/DBEs and contract the opportunities for 4 ancillary services. 5 The letter also points out in the 6 second paragraph of that GPUAC, in its role 7 as monitor, will be made aware of any contracts as 8 to which those exception provisions apply and the 9 basis for any exclusions, and that through the 10 regular reporting from the Eagles to GPUAC and the 11 oversight committee, City Council will be made 12 aware of letters. 13 The Eagles letter specifically 14 addresses some issues relating to its master 15 concessionaire. The Eagles had entered into an 16 agreement with a master concessionaire and 17 provides in this letter some clarifications 18 regarding that contract and the implications of 19 the economic opportunity plan. 20 At the bottom of , the Eagles 21 confirm that the team is required, through the 22 concessionaire, to adopt the plan's employment 23 levels to create maximum opportunities for permanent employment, and the concessionaire has agreed to make good-faith efforts to achieve those 113 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 goals. 3 Just as importantly, over on , 4 the team confirms that there will be individual 5 retail vendor locations available within the new 6 football stadium, and that, at the bottom of the 7 paragraph on the top of , Mr. Banner advises 8 the Mayor that the team intends to undertake 9 good-faith efforts to achieve a level of 10 participation of MWDs and DBEs of 20 percent of 11 all food and beverage stands located at the 12 stadium. And it goes on to say that the actual 13 level of participation may be higher.
14 And then, just as importantly, the 15 Eagles state that they deem the contracts to be 16 let by the concessionaire for goods and services 17 to be subject to Part 2-B of their economic 18 opportunity plan so that that part of the plan 19 provides for levels of participation of 25 percent 20 minority, 13 percent female, and 2 percent 21 disabled business enterprises. 22 So I think that in its most significant 23 points summarizes the Eagles letter, which, of course, you have the specific text in front of you. 114 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, As to the Phillies letter, it also states on behalf of the baseball franchises the commits as they relate to GPUAC and the fact that there are no plans to replace that entity, and the Council would be advised and a suitable replacement selected if GPUAC was unable to assist in the project. And over on of the Phillies letter, the Phillies also confirm their commitment to any -- that the sole source and specialty items provisions are not intended to diminish the team's commitment to achieving substantial participation in the project, and that the Phillies will make a good-faith effort to include MWDs, DBEs, and contracting opportunities for ancillary services relating to sole source or specialty items. And then, again, the Phillies also remind the Mayor that GPUAC, as monitor, will be made aware of circumstances where the sole limited source exception is relied upon, the basis for that exclusion, and be able to report to Council as to how that exception is being utilized. So, again, these are clarifications of the economic opportunities plans. Which have been 115 1/31/01 - WHOLE - RES. 010020, 21, 22, 2 included as exhibits to the sublease. And I 3 appreciate the opportunity to advise the Mayor -- 4 or to advise the Council of these letters from the 5 Mayor. 6
Thank you. 7 Any questions from members of the 8 committee? 9 (No questions.) 10
Do we have 14 anyone else to testify on the resolutions before 15 us this evening? 16 (No response.) 17
Seeing none, 18 this committee stands in recess until 9 o'clock 19 tomorrow morning. Thank you. 20 (Adjourned at 8:25 p.m.) 21 - - - 22 23 116 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Wednesday, January 31, 2001, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE RES. NO.'S 010020, 21, 22, 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 __________________________________, 22 JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, 23 Registered Professional Reporter