Wait a minute. I'm good. I'm good. It wasn't on the internet. All right. We're good.
44? Yeah.
I'm probably clear. I'll pass it to you.
Good morning, everyone. My name is Bill Bergen, and I will be chairing this morning's
meeting of the Zoning Board of Adjustment. With me is our Vice Chair, Tanetta Graham.
Present, Mr. Chairman. Board Secretary, Cheryl L. Gaston.
Present, Mr. Chairman. Board Member, Michael Johns.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Tai Nguyen.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Also, here is our Attorney, Lynn Reuter-Huber, and also our Executive Director, Ian Haggerty.
This hearing is being recorded and will be posted on the ZBA website.
by participating you agree to be recorded this is the in-person meeting with remote participation
whether in person or on zoom if you're called to speak please state and spell your name then wait
to be sworn in once you've been sworn in please state your name each time before testifying
to enter an appearance indicate the property address on the zoom webinar speak with a staff
member call the zba office by the close of business tomorrow please call 215-686-2429
and please provide your name email and the address of the property in question
remote participation raise your virtual hand when directed to speak when we do call on you
please click the join as a panelist button use the q a only for procedural questions not the case
itself if you're joining by phone press star nine to raise your hand and star six to unmute
in-person attendance if testifying get close to the mic so that all attendees
and the court reporter can hear you no talking either drinking during the hearing
aggressive behavior will not be tolerated
in an emergency follow staff directions the main exit is the double doors at the rear
the nearest stairwell is to the left if we evacuate please go to love park and remain there
so that we can account for you so let's look at our schedule for today
number one mi 2025 003579 916 east chelton avenue that case is continued until 9 16 at 9 30 a.m
Number 4, MI 2025 004782 6021 Delancey Street, there is no exhibits for this.
this is the third listing auto pen properties justin felix is the listed applicant
no hands at this time so
so number four mi 2025 004 782 6021 delancey street that case i vote to dismiss
michael johns my vote is to dismiss charles gaston my vote is to dismiss tenetta graham
my vote is to dismiss tywin my vote is to dismiss number eight 1925 ontario street which is mi
2026 001 676 that case is continued until 10 21 at 9 30 a.m number 12
1260 north dover street which is mi2026 001 695 that case is continued until 9 16 at 9 30 a.m
number 15 4293 mantua avenue which is mi2026 001 737 that case is continued until 9 16
at 9 30 a.m number two mi 45 56 wayne avenue which is mi
4556 wayne avenue which is mi2025 003592 that case is continued until 9 16 at 9 30 a.m
and number three 84 843 north 42nd street which is mi2025 003639
That case is continued until 916 at 9.30 a.m.
Are there any other requests for continuance?
No hands at this time, Chair.
So let's go to our add-on cases.
Number one, MI 2026-000480-3251 Fox Street.
The vote on that has been rescheduled to Wednesday, August 26 at 9.30.
Number two, MI-2025-003-858-510-28 South A Street.
That case is continued until Wednesday, August 26th at 9.30 a.m.
We'll go to our regular list.
Number six, MI 2025, 007193, 1110 East Tioga Street, Joseph Vaccaro is the attorney.
We also have a Spanish interpreter.
They're being promoted to panelists.
Good morning.
Good morning, Mr. Vaccaro. Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Good morning. My name is Joseph Vaccaro, V-A-C-C-A-R-O, on behalf of Jorge Campo Verde, the applicant.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do. And just let the record reflect that Mr. Campo Verde is sitting to my right.
All right, good. Thank you very much.
Spanish interpreter?
Yes, my name is Stephen Aubain, last name spelled A-U-B-A-I-N, interpreter ID Y-M-288.
Do you swear or affirm that you interpret accurately, completely, and impartially from English to Spanish and from Spanish to English?
Yes, I do.
Thank you. Mr. Vaccaro, could you tell me what degree of interpret for the interpreter? How do we stand with this?
do we well i i could take it slowly one one or two sentences at a time and then mr camper verde he
can listen to the spanish interpretation okay all right okay all right sorry sorry to interrupt
chair this is ian hegarty uh mr vaquero i think uh the question is would you like this uh your
presentation to also be interpreted line by line um for the record or would you just like the
interpretation to be limited to questions from the board to your client and uh the disposition
of the case uh well if if the board is just going to if the board would be so kind as to accept my
testimony as an officer report then then we could be fine and then the interpretation could that be
limited to any questions that the board may have thank you mr vicaro thank you um an interpreter
I'm sure you heard that. So thank you. Our Vice Chair has a few questions, Joe.
Thank you. Good morning. Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of
this hearing? Yes, I did. And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
Yes, I do. Okay. Thank you. You can share your screen and proceed with your case. Okay. Thank
you very much um um um mr bergman do you see a deed on i do i do sir yep okay so we're sharing
and we're on the right page so jorge had purchased the property at 1110 east tayoga street on october
October 4th of 2018 as I'm showing as is shown on the deed and this is an
4th of 2018 as I'm showing as is shown on the deed
application to permit two-family household living as was indicated in the
refusal. He has his tax clearance which I'm showing to the board and going to
the refusal this is a transit oriented development overlay district which
which requires basically some sort of civic or institutional use on the first floor.
When Jorge had purchased the property, he had purchased it with two units, a first floor
unit and a second floor unit.
He discovered that he needed the zoning when he had a tenant on the first floor that was
no longer paying rent.
He needed to evict the tenant and he needed to have a second rental license which he was
not able to obtain until until such time as he gets the appropriate variance is
to permit to family household living which should lead to a second rental
license. I'm scrolling down through my exhibit packet so I could get to the
plans into the photographs of the property. So I'm showing you the plans. If I could,
scroll, there we go, make this a little bit smaller. We'll try to move this.
so this is a 15 foot wide building right in on a rectangular lot I could zoom in on the on the
units there would be a first floor unit with a basement floor plan which is on the left there
There would be a first floor plan, which is in the center, and a second floor plan.
And again, this is only an application for two units on the property, a first floor unit
and a second floor unit.
Each unit would be, each unit would have one bedroom.
I'm showing you the bedroom on the front of the first floor unit with a restroom and a
kitchen.
and the second floor would have a bedroom in the front area with a restroom, a second bedroom
in the back with a kitchen and living area. We have a letter of support. Twelve members of the
Harrogate Civic Association supported. Two members non-opposition and seven participants in the
meeting we're in opposition with as long as the applicant complies with
installing security cameras exploring solar and green energy options provides
additional lighting and continues cleaning the exterior of the property
these are all things that my client has absolutely no no problem or issue taking
on in fact he already has security cameras on the front of the property as
I'll show you in a few minutes as we scroll down through the exhibit packet and go into the photos.
Right now we're just zooming through the proof of mailing of the notice of the meeting to the
near neighbors and here's a satellite view of the property 110 East Tioga that's the property with
the dot. And as I said it's a rectangular property. Here's the front view of the
home. He's got security cameras. Here's a view of the hall. If I could zoom out a
little bit here's a here's another view of the staircase leading from the first
floor to the second floor view of the rear yard view of the first floor
kitchen here's the second floor kitchen
bedroom on the second floor the other bedroom another view of the bedroom restroom
living space another view of the security camera
this is in the basement which is only used for laundry nobody is living in the basement but I
don't even stop the end on a basement so I meant a la lavanderia correct only only only laundry
only only only laundry services for the tenants
services for the
heating units
here's the electric box for the first floor which is located on the first floor
and he's confirmed that each electric panel is located in each apartment
it and that concludes my exhibits and my uh presentation are there any questions from the
board so so what i'm going to do is have the interpreter um swearing your client and then you
will adopt your testimony okay okay could you ask you ask the person to please state your name
and spell for the stenographer.
Así que puede darnos su nombre y deletrarlo
para el reportero.
Jorge Campo Verde.
Habla fuerte.
Me escucha, es Jorge Campo Verde.
Y lo puede
deletrar, por favor.
J-O-R-G-E
C-A-M-P-O
B pequeña
E-R-D-E
So es Jorge Campo Verde
J-O-R-G-E
Campo, C-A-M-P-O, Verde, V-E-R-D-E.
Okay, all right, all right.
Okay, just, do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,
the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Y Jury afirma decir la verdad, toda la verdad,
nada más que la verdad.
you don't have to adopt a testimony
mister vacaro yes i i i heard you mr bergman i said questions from the board yes can you show
photographs or do you have photographs of the two bedrooms that are in the basement
I understand that they were listed as storage, but they are both bedrooms, and in every photo you showed, the doors were closed.
Yeah, Mario, I'll just let the interpreter interpret the question first.
So the question of the board was, can you show the pictures of the two quarters that are in the sótano?
I understand that there is no one living there, but there are still two quarters in the sótano.
Can you show the pictures? Because the ones that showed the quarters are closed.
Let him answer Joe, please.
Sure, of course.
So I didn't take any photographs of the basement nor did I see any photographs there, but it's
all used as a storage space um because there's only one person living there can you pull up the
plans i guess my question then for either counselor or his client is are you opposed to a proviso
for no household living in the basement asi que mi pregunta entonces para su representante
para el cliente es que si se ponen a un proviso que indica que no se permitirá que vivan en el
sótano we have no objection to such a proviso why don't we let the interpreter answer that joe
así que si puede contestar esa pregunta
the interpreter will repeat the question usted se opone a que pongan una indicación
en la orden de que nadie puede vivir en el sotano no no no me pongo ahí no va a vivir nadie
so i don't oppose to it no one will live there say that again sir i i do not oppose to it i
okay because no one will live there all right thank you sorry you're getting into the floor
plans question yes i'm scrolling for them i'm scrolling for them
i'm looking for the floor plans mr johns one moment please here the here we are
i take it this is the page
yeah mr johnson yes uh-huh yeah i think you know to a board member wins point
Yeah, I think, you know, to a board member Wynn's point, you've got a full bathroom in the basement and a full bathroom on the first floor for one bedroom unit.
kind of bogus you've you called out for a storage room in the back with a full closet
and in the photos that do show the basement they show a refrigerator across from the washer and
dryer so i think that um it's hard to for me to believe that this is not that this is somehow
and attempt to go around the fact that board members said that.
Michael, why don't we let the interpreter tell him that?
Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry.
I forgot we were interpreting.
That's okay.
Así que tiene un baño completo y en el sótano,
este tiene un baño completo y en la planta baja para la unidad del dormitorio.
Así que un poco raro, mencionaste que hay un cuarto de almacenamiento
en la parte trasera con un armario completo.
and in the photos where you see the sótano,
you can see a refrigerator in front of the refrigerator and the refrigerator.
So I think it's hard to believe that this is not an attempt
to try to make the streets to reach something.
And you can go ahead.
Yes, so that's...
I'm just making a statement.
I don't need... I'm just making a statement.
it does what it appears to me from looking at the plan it's a workaround it's a worker that's
what it appears to me that's all so i agree with a board member when if i may respond to mr
why don't you let the interpreter so that's just what i'm saying that
that you see it's looking for an internal solution,
but that's what I'm telling you.
If that's another concern, this is only an application to permit two units and only two units.
If we need a proviso to make sure that nobody's residing in the basement, we will gladly agree to that with that proviso.
If you would like to have some additional photographs to show that there's nobody living in the basement, we'll gladly submit that to the board.
and if you'd like to and if you'd like to have some revised plans showing an empty basement
we'll even supply those additional plans other questions yeah so there was some opposition to
this uh proposal um was the opposition that the neighbors uh adjacent to you did you have their
support with this proposal así que hubieron algunas oposiciones a la propuesta este cuáles
fueron esas oposiciones este los vecinos están de acuerdo tienen el apoyo para esta propuesta
no tenemos el apoyo de de la comunidad so we have the support from the community
but he's not sure if it's the immediate the immediate houses next to him
so the community knows and is aware and are in agreement with what is proposed
okay and um what is his plan for trash stores how he's been handling the trash for both units
¿Y cuál es su plan para el almacén de basura? ¿Cómo está manejando la basura para ambas unidades?
El primer piso lo van a poner en la parte de atrás, en la yarda, y los del segundo van a cogerlo y sacarlo cuando toque sacar el día, porque pasan dos días a la semana.
so um the first floor they're going to put it in the backyard and then in the second floor
they're going to wait for the day that is the trash pickup because it trash comes every two days
questions from our attorney
no questions questions or comments from the virtual audience no hands at this time planning commission
amy boy with the planet commission amyboid you swear or affirm to tell the truth the
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do
whole truth nothing but the truth i do please
please proceed the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the r1 residential multifamily zoning
at this location this block is a residential block where the proposed ground floor use
would be in contact with the surrounding properties enacted in june 2026 bill number
260519 exempts this and other zoning districts from ground floor requirement the planning
commission recommends that the board grant the requested variance for ground floor use
mi2025-007-193-1110 east tayoga street i vote no michael johns my vote is no
cheryl gaston my vote is no tanetta graham my vote is no tyoan my vote is no um joan
could you and the interpreter please stay on you you have another case here correct 6701 charles
correct? Yep. So MI 2026 001 686 6701 Charles Street. Mr. Vaccaro, just for the record, state
your name. Good morning again. May it please the board, Joseph Vaccaro, V-A-C-C-A-R-O, on behalf
of Luis Reyes, and he is now sitting to my right. Right. Mr. Vaccaro, would you be comfortable with
the same type of um interpretation for this case absolutely right now our vice chair has a few
questions thank you good morning um have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days
in advance of this hearing yes i have and do you waive the read another refusal and stipulate to
its accuracy yes i do all right thank you you can proceed thank you okay let me start sharing my
screen okay so do you see the we do sir from the city okay so Luis Reyes who's
sitting to my right he's the owner of 6701 Charles Street and we do have in
the in the physical room of the zoning board one of his neighbors his name is
steven who resides at 6707 charles we see him we see okay okay so uh this is an application to
permit a 20 by 40 shed for louise's personal personal use personal storage of his tools and
equipment uh it would also be uh 12 feet high uh louise works as a handyman so he goes from
house to house from site to site doing work and he has a lot of tools and he
needs he needs a secure place to store those tools on his property. His
property is about 10,519 square feet so it's a very sizable lot with 47 feet
frontage and I'm showing you it's a rectangular lot on Charles Street that's
the spot. So it's a very sizable lot. If I could stop sharing that and I'll start
sharing the rest of my exhibits.
This would this would not be for any commercial use. Luis will not be doing
any work on the property. This is simply for storage of his equipment and
materials just going through the uh exhibits we have the tax clearance certificate as well
as we have all your documents joe okay and we're just going down to the plans photos yep
plans and threads and photos
make the smaller here's where the proposed metal shed would be at 20 feet by 40 feet
so with the rest of the with the rest of the property show with the home the home the driveway
etc here's a satellite view of the property the posting with the front of the home
another view of the posting with the side of the home and here's his backyard he's basically
storing a lot of his items in tents as well as outside where people can see
whatever he has stored which could prove to be an inviting an inviting site for
thieves so he'd like to have a the storage shed to store his items in a
much more secure fashion are the views of his materials and equipment and tools
are the views of his materials and equipment and tools, which he's storing in his shed.
The structure has not been built yet,
but he does seek the board's approval so that he could start constructing.
Here's another view of his backyard.
we have the letter to the near neighbors with the mailing and I could show you the
letter of support from Tukoni Civic with the individual members and in fact even
Steven Petrach, who I believe is in the room, he also signed in support.
And there was no opposition from Tocconi Civic. Any questions from the board?
Why don't we do this? Why don't we bring your client on? I'll have it.
Well, no, we can't swear on that, right? All right. We'll bring him in. Bring your client on.
We'll swear on that. Okay, nice. Happy.
Hi, could you please state and spell your name?
Luis Reis.
Por favor, de darnos su nombre y de letrarlo, por favor.
Luis Reis.
Y de letrarlo, por favor.
Could he spell his name, please?
Oh, L-U-I-S-R-E-I-S.
R-E-I-S?
R-E-I-S.
So it's Luis L-U-I-S and Reis R-E-I-S.
right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
thank you mr vicarra could you come back on questions from the board
yeah i got a question can you pull up the site plan again what's the square footage of the
of the shed and how do you how are you dealing with um a stormwater runoff or rain
So I have a question, how many square feet are in the armazen and how it will deal with the rain water?
opposition to the size. I just wanted to just, my concern is just sort of how are you dealing with the stormwater?
And the stormwater, it hasn't been brought up at this point, but it obviously will have to,
obviously certain mitigating factors are going to have to be brought in
if we have the approval from the zoning board, because then we definitely need to have
the appropriate building permits that are going to need to account for that.
The size of this shed is not going to trigger PWD
stormwater requirements, so you're not going to have to do that, which is why I think board member
john's asked the question um is this a pre-fabricated metal shed
asi que el tamaño del almacén no va a causar un pwvd este para este los requerimientos de aguas
pluviales lo que le están preguntando este el por eso fue la pregunta del señor johns pero este
the interpreter will repeat the question, but it will be prefabricated.
I'm sorry, he's a little hard of hearing, so I'm going to repeat the question.
Would this be a prefabricated material?
a pre-fabricated structure not material all materials prefabricated okay
I'm sorry it's made for assembly
it's me for assembly prefab so it's free prefab other questions is it going to be connected
So it's pre-failed.
Other questions.
Is it going to be connected to any utilities?
¿Va ser conectado alguna utilidad?
¿Te va conectar a cada utilidad?
¿Agua, eléctrico?
¿En lo que estoy pensando en el panel solano?
He's thinking of solar panels.
But not connected to the utilities.
And then, is there a plan to extend the driveway?
the concrete driveway up to that new structure
in the rear yard.
So no, it's just storage space to put everything
that I have in storage right now there.
And then do you have an elevation or a photo
of the prefabricated structure itself like how high does it go así que tiene este unas fotos
o información acerca de cuán alto va a ser la estructura que va a ser prefabricada
i said 12 feet it goes up it goes up to 12 feet for some reason that didn't make it into my
exhibit packet but i could supplement that with a photo of the height
any other questions yes can i see the pictures of the front of the property and then the
area where this is going to be located so is that is that fence there across the front of the property
así que estamos viendo la foto de la parte de frente de la propiedad este la la verja
que está ahí eso está al frente de la propiedad
so the wooden fence is in front okay and is it more than six feet yeah
¿Más de seis pies en altura?
No, seis pies.
So, what is the height of the fence?
And the interpreter will repeat, he answered, six feet.
And then, can I see the back again, the pictures with all the different tents and things?
Así que ahora vamos a ver las fotos de atrás.
so is this pre fabricated the structure going to be where that one that's that's
good is that where you're planning to put the prefabricated structure
So it will be further back because once the structure is built, then all the items that
are inside of those tents will go in that built structure and then the tents will be removed okay
so the once this is built then these other two what are the what are they tents are they
other little stewardship that are behind the gray looking structure what what are they
and are they going to go away as well y la estructura que están al lado de este
lo grita la carpa gris que se ven como azul este esa que va a suceder con ella
chatten cuando la estructura es construida ahí está todo guardado tan pronto yo
pueda subir la estructura de metal todo eso va a salir de ahí so all that is
storage as well so once the metal structure is built all the other two
tents will be eliminated as well all right thank you questions for attorney
Yes hi I just wanted to clarify what is the use going to be in this new structure? Is it personal
or business? Así que le quería hacer una pregunta este para clarificar en esta nueva estructura
este cuál sería el uso? Sería para este uso personal o de negocio? Personal. Personal. Todo
All these are mine, that's why I have a material material that I want to guard in a more safe place, because there I'm not going to be calm.
So I want to guard something more safe, so I can clean all those areas where the carpet is.
So it's just for personal use. I just have all my items and I want to have it all in a secure location.
I want to clean up that area so it looks nicer.
So I just want everything to be in one place.
I want it to be 12 feet high so that I could organize it in shelves.
So it's just a more secure place to store all my stuff.
Questions from the audience?
Sir, you want to come up?
Thank you.
well you gotta sit down for just yeah sit down one minute and just state your name and spell
for the stenographer even my name is steven petech uh p-i-e-t-r-z-a-k i'm his next door neighbor
all right hold on do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
yes and could you tell us your thoughts on this case yeah i i i'm totally for this he's a great
neighbor he moved in about a year ago he really cleaned up the property alive uh i think he just
wants to build a storage set so he gets all that stuff out of the way all right uh he's been very
honest with me right he's a handyman but he has no construction vehicles or nothing there all right
just his van that he pulls back all right we appreciate you coming down and testifying
thank you very much is there anyone else in the virtual audience
no hands at the science planning commission
and bboy with the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change to
the rsa3 residential single family zoning at this location the appellant has not presented evidence
that there are unique physical conditions or circumstances that would prevent the property
from being used in conformance with the zoning code the planning commission recommends that the
board to deny the requested variance for accessory building size so mr vicaro i want to hold this
and really talk to the board about it i mean we just want to kick around the size of it and things
of that nature and where we want to be so we'll vote on this next wednesday at 9 30 a.m next
wednesday 9 30. thank you very much thank you sir thank you all right number five does the
interpreter speaking is there another hearing that requires interpretation
no sir thank you for your services thank you sir thank you thank you for using this
by the way we appreciate it no problem thank you
number five mi 2025 006 251 44 20 north 15th street alan knockamson is the attorney and i
think he's out in the hallway am i correct
Good morning, Mr.
are you on you you've got service and all yeah okay all right could you please state your name
and spell for the stenographer alan alan knockamson do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth i do uh mr knockamson could you identify your client a
relationship to the property yeah my client is bobby and eva james the owners of the property
to my left is bobby james and his wife is in the audience ever and i notice you have a letter of
um support from the 13th board uh that is correct okay our vice chair has a few questions for you
good morning have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing
uh yes we have and do you waive the reading of the visual and stipulate to its accuracy i do
all right thank you you can show your screen and proceed with the case um can i just be promoted
to a panelist thank you
so this is one of these typical cases where you have a homeowner who trusts a contractor
expecting the contractor to get permits no ill intent on my client's part
uh bobby's lived there for 50 years you said at the house and he just
bobby's lived there for 50 years you said at the house and he just wanted to expand his porch
uh area to get more livable square feet um he feels bad that he's in this situation and it's
a bad situation um not cheap either uh so and he's just struggled through this process he actually
even hired another council who struggled to get through this process and then we took over so um
and it's not out of character you'll see but this is a picture of the enclosed the beginnings of an
enclosed front porch and um as soon as he found out that there was an issue he uh he stopped the
work so we have 12 exhibits here we'll review those exhibits um he knows he has to this is just
the first step of the process where he hopefully gets his own e-permit has to then get the building
permit whatever was done he's going to make sure that was done right he's hiring a licensed
contractor um who will follow the law um but that's the only refusal i mean it's just dealing
with the the front setback it doesn't match because we're trying to enclose the porch
um so that's the only refusal we have unanimous support uh we we appear many times in front of
the 13th ward rco typically they don't like illegal use and i hate to use the word illegal
i don't think it was intentional um but here they saw that there's no intel ill intent here
um so it was unanimous support both by the board and the member in attendance community member
intendants um so it and again not out of character we have a nearby property on that block that has
an enclosed porch a couple nearby it's on blavis street as well and again they're not trying to
increase the density of the property and they feel bad about this but here's a notice posting
this is to the right of the property on north 15th to the left photographs again as soon as
they discovered from lni that this was not proper they stopped the work so and they just wanted more
some more square footage it's it's only six feet deep the space it's not huge um but it's something
they want and so there's the site plan which shows that it's 16 feet deep and the the width
of the last 15 feet 9 inches so we met with the community again as i stated uh you know the 13th
ward democratic ward on july 23rd we emailed that notice a few days beforehand we sent it to the
the affected properties this is proof of mailing to those affected properties this is all right oh
actually we didn't we didn't get the application for zoning variants um bobby didn't have it
we asked the zoning zoning board administrator not a big deal but we usually included it within
our packet but it wasn't here but you can see that bobby and eva have been owning this property for
some time and this is their certificate of tax clearance i would just ask that um bobby beats
warning sure bobby could you step forward a little bit and try to get that mic right up against you
sir could you please state you by the way good morning good morning sir would you please state
your name and spell for the stenographer my name is bobby l james b-o-b-b-y l-g-a-m-e-s
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Counsel.
Yeah, Bobby, you heard everything I had to state today about your zoning matter.
And is it true and correct?
And do you adopt it as your own testimony?
Do you adopt it as your own testimony?
And then specifically, I made representations to the board.
You had no idea that the previous contractor didn't get permits, right?
No, I didn't.
And as soon as you were alerted by L and I, that, that, that you needed to get permits, you, you have stopped the work. That is correct. All right. Thank you. Questions from the board.
Yeah. Um, do you have the support of your neighbors that are on both sides of you for closing out the porch? Yes.
other questions and what are you going to use this space for is it going to be like a little
vestibule or is living space or how are you going to just use it or an extension of your living room
no it's just a you know for to sit out on the porch with it being enclosed so
you know keep the mosquitoes and stuff
that okay and you can use it your room yes oh all right okay thank you questions from our attorney
no questions at this time the comments from the virtual audience
no hands at this time planning commission amy boy with the planning commission the comprehensive
no hands at this time planning commission amy boy with the planning commission
plan recommends no change the rsa 5 residential single family zoning at this location the city
rezoned this neighborhood in 1968 and council supported map change the appellant appears to
have built the enclosed porch without the benefit of permits triggering triggering the denial for
not including the required front yard the planning commission recommends that the board deny their
proposed dimensional variance. So MI2025, 006251, 4420 North 15th Street, I vote yes.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes. Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes. Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.
Taya Nguyen, my vote is yes. You have your vote, sir. Thank you. Thank you. See you this afternoon.
thanks everybody thank you thank you sir number seven mi 2026 001 633 918 north 43rd street
henry clinton is the attorney they're being promoted to panelists here
morning mr chairman members of the board sir uh could you please state your name and spell
for this stenographer sure my name is henry clinton h-e-n-r-y clinton c-l-i-n-t-o-n right
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do
Did you identify your client in relationship to the property?
My client is OSE Investments, LLC, the principal of which is Edon, Slomo, E-D-O-N, Slomo, S-H-L-O-M-O.
And he is on the call.
Yes, sir.
I see a letter of support here from West Belmont Civic Association.
Our vice chair has a few questions.
Good morning.
Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing?
Yes, Ms. Graham.
and do you weigh the reading of your refusals and stipulate to their accuracy
i do i think you can share your screen and see with the case thank you
is that visible actually we see your uh itself now henry it's good all right thank you mr chairman
Again, good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
Henry Clinton on behalf of the owner of the property.
This is a request for a two-family dwelling on a corner property, long vacant, at least 20 years and perhaps longer, which previously was used as a three-family dwelling.
And then back in the 50s, a two-family dwelling in the store, and prior to that, a two-family dwelling and a business.
It's on a block on the west side of the street that only has five parcels, and there's only
homes on two of those five parcels, and I'll show you that as we walk through.
My table of contents, A1 through A10, including zoning records of existing triplexes, three
family dwellings on the block, and here's that brief history supported by zoning documents
that I do have at the end of the presentation of the prior uses.
Refusal. This is an RSA 5 zoning district. Refusals are two. One is the use. RSA 5, as the board knows, is single family. We're requesting a two-family dwelling, and there's an issue with regard to the front setback. It's allowed to have 11 foot, and we don't have any setback, and I can explain why we do not when we get to that portion of the presentation.
As the chairman mentioned, we do have strong support from West Belmont Civic Association, where we presented the project.
And here are the photographs. So this is 43rd Street. The property is a corner property.
There's only two homes on facing with frontages on 43rd Street on the west side of the street,
because on Westminster, the rear yards and the side of the building face 43rd Street.
There are two properties across the street that are triplexes.
They're three-story.
We tried to maintain a two-story look for this particular block.
Another close-up of the vacant lot.
Vacant lot is to the right.
Here are the two existing homes on the block.
The other two vacant parcels are to the left side of these structures on the left.
Property on the corner.
these are the two adjacent properties now you'll notice i mean there's porches on both homes we
did not we do not have a porch um and i can explain that as i walk through the presentation
and i can explain that as i walk through the presentation
more views of the of the site the site is right here to the left there's a
store across the street this building comes all the way out
to the maximum allowed and that's what we try to do on this side is max
the depth of and the frontage towards the sidewalk as across the street
Again, this is the five parcels on that side of the block, and we are at the corner property.
I just took a photograph from 2004 from the archives indicating that the property has been vacant since at least then and may even further back, but I was not able to find any information on that.
So these are the two properties across the street that were recently, one in 2022 and one in 2023, recently approved for a triplex, and there's a home with a porch in between.
Postings of the placards with a close-up indicating the date of the hearing is today.
so we did some revisions of the plan after meeting with the community group and frankly
i don't really think that these affect the site plan whatsoever but we provided proviso sheet
anyway we added trash storage uh we depicted the nearest neighbor on on 43rd street even though
the property next to us is also vacant uh we have a ground floor corridor to the rear yard
security cameras, furniture we added, and a fence to the rear yard. Again, I don't believe that
these are zoning issues, but I just thought I'd bring them to the attention of the board.
These are the floor plans. Pretty straightforward. There is no basement. It is two-story. Again,
we try to keep the height of the building in context with the two existing homes on the block.
Pretty straightforward floor plan. The entrance to the first floor is on the side of the building.
You enter into the living room, kitchen area, and then a bedroom in the front with a full bath.
And then to the rear yard, exit is in the back, one bedroom in the rear, full bath with the double vanity, washer and dryer, mechanicals there.
And then there's meters, and I'll show you a side photograph, the elevation.
The meters are hidden behind a door on the side of the property.
To get to the second floor, you would just enter through the front, go up to the second story,
enter into the kitchen area, the bedroom in the front with a bath, a living area, a trash closet,
then a bedroom in the rear.
This is the site plan.
Again, it's a vacant lot.
We don't have any issues with height or open space, and it is on a corner.
Side elevation, this is depicting the house two doors away, 914.
Just to show you the context of where our house is, we put a, and the architect, Michael Cole, was on the call.
If there's any questions about the layout or the elevations,
But you try to mimic the porches in somewhat of a style on the top of the first floor.
Again, we don't have a porch because to get two units without a third floor, we push the house out to the front closest to the sidewalk as possible as a corner property directly across the street.
We have no third floor.
It's all brick front.
And we continue with the brick around the side.
all the way to the end. We have two protruding bays, which conform. And then here's the door
to enter the apartment on the first floor. And this is the door for the meters. And then the
other elevation, because again, it's a vacant lot on the other side, is to the far right. Excuse me,
this is the rear elevation on the far right of this plan. These were the plans that we showed
to the community but basically the same although we added the items that i listed on the on the
revised proviso form the rest of the documents are the pro forma documents you would see
chief of which is the tax clearance the zoning map again corner there's the five parcels uh our
parcel vacant lot to two two-story homes and then two vacant lots indeed indicating ownership since
2024 notice to all members of the community within 250 feet 157 pieces of mail were mailed out
and here are the zoning records again in the late 50s two family in the business
61, two family vacant store
61, two-family vacant store.
62, three family
62, three-family.
and these are the two
And these are the two properties across the street that reflect a three-family dwelling.
And these are the backup support.
Two-family vacant store.
Two-family business.
58, 61.
62, three-family dwelling.
I could not find any records from 62 to the present.
I'm not suggesting that the property was knocked down in the 60s.
I just don't know.
But I do know it's been vacant a minimum of 20 years.
Again, some supporting documents indicating 1962, three-family dwelling.
This is the zoning permit for the two triplexes across the street, 913.
This was granted in July of 2023.
Ironically, the zoning district, it must have changed and maybe planning can add to that,
but it's listed as an RM1 zoning district.
So this was a by-right project, as there was no ZBA decision required.
It's new construction, three stories with three-family dwelling.
And then 917, one door away.
Again, this was a by-right because at the time it's an RM1 zoning district, December of 2022, multifamily with three-family dwelling.
So that is the presentation. We're not impacting any light or air of an adjacent property. It's in harmony with the code because it is residential. It's in harmony with the block as there are other multifamily on the block. We have the full support of the community. And with that, I would ask my client to unmute himself to adopt my testimony. And again, the architect is here for any questions that the board may have. And I'll go back to the floor plans.
what's the name of your client uh mr shlomo adan can you unmute yourself
he's being promoted to panelists thank you very much
i'm here hello good morning sir could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
Edan, E-D-O-N, Shlomo, S-H-L-O-M-O.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Counsel.
Edan, were you on the call when I presented your project to the board just moments ago?
I was.
And if you had the opportunity to testify, would you adopt my testimony as your own and as true and correct?
Yes, I do.
Thank you very much.
Questions from the board.
uh yes i think less of a question more of a statement i think um the three examples you
showed of the multi-family are the only three properties in like a five block radius that
don't match the context of this neighborhood and i am disappointed to see that um this is
sort of not fitting in with the existing context despite there being a lot of vacancy on the
existing block the building across the street that starts at the property line has a eight foot set
back at the second floor so it mimics the porch uh modular uh as everything else in the neighborhood
and it is also cmx1 and has a store on the first floor so i think to characterize these
as similar properties is not i didn't mean if that's the way it came off i didn't mean to say
they were similar i just meant similar in the sense of where they were situated but they are
definitely I agree with you 100 different zoning districts I also one of the plans you showed
looked like there was a porch and then this plan doesn't so I don't know if it's just the difference
between earlier iteration um but I think like this is a very strong porch block it's going to be
on a on the side of the street where there's two existing homes that have porches around the corner
from it is a full intact block with porches i do think that that this is a big loss um
can i have the architect address your comments miss winn sure uh mike can you unmute yourself
it's michael cole sure and just discuss the iteration they're being promoted to panelists
sir okay thank you
mr cole
michael
sorry good morning hi good morning mr cole please state your name and spell for the sonographer
name is michael cole last name is spelled c-o-l-e do you swear or affirm to tell the truth
told truth nothing but the truth i do could you turn your video on
yes sir henry yeah mr cole we we talked about this issue of the porch and and the lack of porch
yes sir henry yeah mr
on the drawing both before the project started and actually actually earlier again this morning
can you maybe address a little bit better than i did the the rationale certainly um there were
actually was not a porch intended there. The issue we have is that if we push this back to add the
porch, we effectively eliminate bedrooms from each of these units. So they effectively become
single bedroom, almost efficiency type apartments, which we did not feel was in contact with this
neighborhood at all um so we we needed that extra square footage effectively to be able to
make this in our opinion at least fit more in context with the uh the use of the of the block
can you go to the site plan
big as the rear yard what's your you what's your rear yard depth
uh we're 12 feet over 12 feet well yes the 12 12 is up so i think i i don't agree with that um
that uh with that analysis i think that you could have easily uh done a porch on the first floor set
the building back to the property line uh the the front face of the the nearest property on that
street had a smaller rear yard and be quite frankly exactly in um uh and uh in common with
the design of the existing buildings on the street with just a smaller backyard and that
may have prompted a maybe a refusal i don't know um but so but you could have you could have done
it so i mean we were attempting to avoid any additional refusals we thought this was the
the least of the uh refusals which sounding like that may not be the case
yeah i mean i think i think that to me it's two things it's that the first floor and the second
floor are now going to sit four feet in front of everything else on that block it's going to be the
only thing that has uh something at the property line at the second floor that's on the property
line um that um so i do think it is going to now be very different than everything else on the block
even the other flat-faced things that don't have porches at least honored the setback of the other
porches so um yeah all right other questions from her um henry are you are you going to stand on
this would you want to i think uh i think in light of the comments i think it's best that we go back
to the drawing board and uh rework the plan and maybe request another hearing or a result of
hearing maybe henry i can i can do a resumptive hearing 12 8 26 at 9 30 a.m all right i really
appreciate that and thanks for the comments from the board all right thank you let's see your number
Number 9, MI 2026-001-676-3200 Friendship Street, Zen Jin is the attorney.
I saw him here earlier.
Maybe he went back to his office. Okay. He went back to his office. Okay. Mr. Jin?
Yes. Good morning.
We were just, we did a search of the building for you here, looking for you because we saw you earlier.
I had technical difficulties, unfortunately, so I had to come back to the office.
Could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer?
Yes. Zen Jin, Z-H-E-N, last name J-I-N.
Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
I do. All right. And could you identify your client and relationship to the property?
Yes. My client is LNY 2017 LLC, the property owner, and Ms. Nancy Rao is here on behalf of
the LLC. And just for a point of information, we have not received an RCO letter. Is that correct?
That's correct. I have submitted the evidence of us doing outreach asking for the letter.
We have not received it either. All right. Our vice chair has a few questions.
good morning have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in
advance of this hearing yes and do you waive the reading of the refusal and
Yes. And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
stipulate to its accuracy
I do. All right. Thank you. You can share your screen and proceed with the case.
Thank you. I'm going to share with the board what was previously submitted as an exhibit
in this matter. You should be coming up on the screen.
Yeah, I think we have everything, but like I said, we don't have an RCO letter.
That's correct. So this is an application for 3200 Friendship Street. The reason this
application came before the board is actually it was triggered through what is a violation notice
issued to my client substantially after she purchased the property this was issued pulling
up the violation notice in order this violation notice was issued in may of 2025 stating that
a building permit is required for the construction or erection of a new structure which actually
exists at the back of the property a little research into the history of the property in the
atlas file i actually located the addition plans dating back to 19 it looks like 93
which shows the exact addition that we're actually here before the board for
So my feeling is that an addition was actually added because it itself does not trigger any
dimensional variances. It must have been added. And maybe the prior owner constructed it without
leaving permits or applying for permits. And it was never caught until just 2025.
My client purchased the property back in 2019 and was given rental licenses,
certification at time of closing as a three-family dwelling with no violations
and had this operating as what we are applying for before the board for those years until the
violation came along, at which point her rental license was not renewed in November of 2025.
five. So this property was originally granted through a variance for
three-family dwelling going back, I'm sorry, I jumped a little bit there, going back to 2012.
So as you can see, a permit was issued for three-family dwelling going back to 2012.
That was a variance applied through an attorney by the prior owner, Thomas O'Brien, who sold
to my client and went through the same civic association at the time for that application.
When we went before the civic association, one of the issues that came up at the meeting was that
some of the neighbors were complaining that one of the tenants who is a carryover tenant
from the prior owner had multiple dogs and the dogs were outside a lot and she wasn't
picking up after them quickly. So we learned of this, my client learned of this at the community
meeting. The community organization took this as the basis to oppose us, at least verbally,
that's the vote they said they would do, is to oppose us on this application. We then went back
and had a talk with the tenant who then talked to her neighbors. And as you can see, the immediate
neighbor who was the most vocal about the dog issue actually signed the petition because
everything got worked out it wasn't that they had an issue with our use or the addition they just
wanted the tenant to pick up more often after her dog she's now actually keeping her pets indoors
more the reason my client never had an issue with the pets is because again the tenant was with the
prior owner and has been in that property for at least well before my client even purchased it in
2019. So that's how we went back and was able to get the petition from the neighbors. Again,
they're aware that this has been a three-family dwelling for some time. Again, we reached out to
the community for the letter, but we didn't hear anything. Maybe someone from the community
organization might be here today and then we have what i want to do is now show the
photos of the property to the board and kind of explain what uh the layout of the property is
so this is the corner property and in fact that is the extension in that photo
that's extension in question uh there's there's a laundry room in the front that's accessed through
this door in the front that is separate from the back and then the rear extension area is
it's its own residential unit the way that the property is laid out is better shown
The way that the property is laid out is better shown through the plants.
This is one of those buildings where there's actually a slope of the grass in front of the property.
So although the level that we're discussing technically is the basement level, from a side view, it's pretty easy to see that this building,
a side elevation will show that this building actually is uh above grade for the most part
right here so as you can see majority of the building is mostly above grade
this is the addition that is uh needed to be legalized this is the portion the interior layout
of this structure
for that level is as follows. I'm going to zoom in to better explain to the board how it's
divided up. As I mentioned earlier, there is a door leading to the public area for utility
that is in the front portion of the basement area. And the rest of it, including the addition
itself towards the back is essentially one unit. The way it's marked is actually how the tenant is
using it. They technically could use this as the bedroom and this as the living area, but
they actually use this as a playroom for their child. And the bedroom, they have their bed set
up in the front area at this point, using this as a dining area, and there's the kitchen.
they do have, again, this is a corner property, so they do have a trash bin area inside,
and they also all have access to the rear yard. This property, to my knowledge, never had
prior issues. There was no complaints that we're aware of. There's no violations on record for this
three-family use, which has, again, been used this way since the prior owner.
since 2012 uh at the minimum so we we would submit that the legalization of this extension
uh is is consistent with what has been historically there my client unfortunately
inherited this uh what i'm going to do is i'm going to share with the board a document that
actually i was not able to submit previously but i think we can update the board needed as needed
and that is the certification statement for this property.
I'm going to put that up on the screen.
So my client purchased this property in 2019.
As you can see, there was a certification statement obtained by the prior owner
indicating three family dwelling with no known violations.
That's the only reason my client purchased the property.
So we have no idea and she has certainly no expectation that in 2025, a inspector will walk
by and say, hey, this extension doesn't have any permits. And we are in the process of correcting
it. If zoning is approved based on the use that existed at the time she purchased, one of the
things that is being done is that once zoning is complete, building permits will be updated
to legalize and ensure that addition is properly constructed through an engineer review and
architect review. So again, I submit to the board that this is a hardship matter that is not created
by my client, and she had no anticipation that this property was not legally a three-family
dwelling. And she has been using this as such for many years since 2019 prior to this surprise
violation triggering the refusal before the board so we're asking for the board's favorable review
of this application all right why don't you bring your client on sure my client's actually here in
the room with me i'm going to have her sit in my spot just have her state her name and spell for
the stenographer over yep have a seat right here good morning could you please state your name and
spell for the stenographer? Q-I-U-Y-A-N, my last name R-A-O, Rao. Do you swear or affirm to tell
the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. Thank you. Counselor? Yes. So,
Ms. Rao, can you, did you see and hear my representation before the zoning board?
Can you verify everything I have? Can you answer yes, please? You just shook your head. Say yes.
yes okay all right um so if you did see everything can you verify everything i've represented
before the zoning board to be true and correct yes thank you you're welcome
questions from the board just a quick uh just a quick
questions from the board just a quick uh just a quick comment this our question and comment
the um addition is the third unit correct the addition is uh the basement and the addition
connected partially connected is the third unit correct is the third unit and it is essentially
a one-bedroom unit that's independent from the rest of the the rest of the rest of the
building because it has that entryway off of the street that's correct okay um the only comment
that i have in relation to this is that when you label it if if approved and you label it to go to
building permit which you show as a playroom really needs to be the bedroom because you can't use that
other space as a bedroom because it doesn't have a door i will make sure the architect makes that
change if approved all right other questions yes is there um trash closets on the upper floors as
well um i can put the plans back up let me do that there's no trash closet i don't believe there are
um they are too small really to have trash closets in the upper floor so what's your
uh what's the plan for trash storage uh let me
I believe they do have trash cans that is available in the, Nancy, where is the trash stored for the upper floors?
okay let me let me get the upper floor plans up
before oh they do have a small space for trash in the uh third floor and they have a trash bin
they kind of keep on the side here but trash is stored they have trash cans also at the rear yard
in the back. Yeah, I think that probably led to some of the neighbor's complaints from the
previous tenants because the trash was spurred all over the place on the side. So would they
be amenable to interior trash storage? Yes, that would be fine. I would like to note that if they
do that, then the architect needs to put a ventilated trash storage. So what we would
probably do is ventilate this area and allow them to put trash here because that's actually a shared
space that's independent of any of the residential units okay yeah thank you that's much better
other questions not a question but a comment i want to thank you for actually presenting
a city certification which was obtained before the property was purchased so many times we hear
that there's no proof there's no we purchased this and we didn't know anything uh your your
client did the due diligence that um you should do before purchasing a property and by having this
it's easier to tell what the records that lni say about the use thank you first time i've ever seen
it but i had to besides questions from our attorney no questions questions or comments
from the virtual audience. No hands at this time. Planning Commission. Amy Boyd with the Planning
Commission. The comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning to the existing RSA 5 residential
single family. The property was granted a variance for three family in 2020 10. Sorry, 2010. Permit
number 273194. The Planning Commission recommends that the board grant their requested variance
for a three-family. MI 2026-001-676, 3200 Friendship Street. I vote yes with proviso.
Certificate of occupancy to be obtained. Trash stored inside. Michael Johns, my vote is yes
with proviso. Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with proviso. Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with
proviso. Siowen, my vote is yes with proviso. Counsel, we have one more for you right here.
Okay, so number 10-MI-2026-001-680-506-18-North 61st Street. Just state your name if you would.
Yes, Zen Jin on behalf of the applicant.
Okay, could you identify your client or relationship to this property?
Yes, my client is Better Way Bible Church, the property owner. Bishop Clifton T. Martin represents the church.
Okay, and our vice chair has a few questions.
uh good morning again um have you submitted your documents and exhibits for this case five days in
advance of the hearing yes uh we did have to update the board with a more recent submission
due to the board's request okay thank you and do you have to read another views on stipulate to
its accuracy i do all right thank you you can show your screen correct okay please proceed sir thank
you i'm going to uh load the most recent exhibit submitted to the board which included some
below the most recent exhibit submitted to the board which included some additional documentation
additional documentation.
good morning this is an application for a consolidation of lots from multiple parcels
which is three deeded lots to the church of 502-04 506-18 and 520-22 north 61st street
the properties are being consolidated to permit the use of some of the additional lots as 21
parking spaces with a religious assembly which is a church to stay to remain with the 432 seats
generally speaking the code requires actually that a parking space is required for every 10 seats
44 would be required and 21 are being proposed. We have met with the community on this matter
and we have explained to the community what our proposal is, the size of the church,
and the church has been in the area. It actually took a prior building and has slowly updated the
building. It is now basically taking a lot that was already used by church members in essence for
parking to properly add it to the church's other lots and then have it marked as a specific parking
lot the area does have in addition to the lots that we're proposing and i'm going to show the
photo here this is the block uh and this is the church building in question as we move to the back
these are the lots that are already paved and available that are going to be marked specifically
as additional parking. The church has members from the area as well as some members that come
from further away. It holds events usually about twice a week. So generally, we have not ever had
a parking issue. The addition of the lot would only help generally to make sure that during bigger
events that there would be off-street parking provided. The church will provide volunteers to
help direct traffic during events where the lot might become more full. But on a daily and weekly
basis, the membership that is attending the church generally do not overflow the parking lot. So the
spaces that we have available has been enough. Some members are local, so they simply walk over
to the church. This is an area, this building is a kind of a commercial building that's been there.
They do have other mixed uses of various types around the building, but in general,
the addition of this lot as a parking lot has been well received by the neighbors who attended
the meeting for this application. We believe that despite the fact that it is a little bit short
compared to what is code required for parking, the reality is that having these parking spaces
is only adding and helping the situation. Even prior to this application, the church has not
had issues with parking or complaints from the neighbors for parking, and that's part of the
reason why the neighborhood ultimately supported the requested variance for the number of parking
spaces. So the consolidation is to have these lots combined into one and these two lots combined
into one. This entire L-shaped lot would be what is being proposed as parking for the church.
the I'm sorry the the plans for the actual parking is laid out here I'm
going to zoom in a little bit too so this this will allow the space to be
marked a little bit of greenery buffer put up to basically make this a proper
parking space a parking lot rather than just a big open paved lot at this point
without any organized parking so this is the way the parking is being proposed some greenery buffers
added and proper parking directions including driveway directions being given to people who
are going to come and use the parking so the church building this is the church building itself
It is basically going to be a large central area for gatherings, along with various rooms, which are classrooms for Bible studies.
Various rooms, which are classrooms for Bible studies, conference room, office, all used only by the church itself.
It is not going to be used by outside individuals, except, of course, if the local community has need of space for meetings and other things, the church is certainly open to working with the community on all those matters.
So while this has the seating count that is high enough to trigger the additional parking, the bishop has indicated to the community that the actual attendees almost never fill up the space.
It's right now, their congregation does fill up sometimes half of the space, but it has not had any issues with overflow of parking of cars during any of the events they've held.
So that is essentially our request before the board, which is a variance to permit less than code required amount of parking for the church operation at this location.
I believe my client, I believe he should be here.
um if uh uh bishop martin is here if if he could just uh raise his hand virtually to be identified
we did reach out to him they're being promoted to panelists thank you
hello good morning bishop could you please state and spell your name for this my name is
That's Clifton T. Martin, C-L-I-F-T-O-N-T-M-A-R-T-I-N.
Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
All right. Sir, is it possible, could you turn on your video?
I see. We're good. Okay. Counsel?
Thank you. Bishop, did you see my presentation before the zoning board on your screen and hear my representation?
before the board? Yes, I did. Can you verify what I have represented to be true and correct
in the document of your own testimony? That's true. Thank you. Questions from the board.
So, in terms of this lot, usually with the parking, you have to have the dry vials,
the spaces have to be a certain dimension, and I forget what it is now, but, you know, and
the landscaping so that by the time you get done doing all of that, there aren't that many spaces.
But even if you have a large space, that's my comment. That's not.
The code requirement with the buffers, greeneries, and other islands and directions
is why we're looking at 21 spaces. Leaving it as a completely open space, of course,
you could jam more cars in, but it's obviously not an organized parking situation.
Okay. And you do have the curb cut so that you have a means of ingress and egress.
Yes. The curb cuts are existing.
Okay. All right.
If you pull up the site plan, I think it's easy. Can you pull up the site plan?
Sure. I'll put that back up.
I have a question about like drop-offs. I'm thinking ride shares, transport vehicles,
especially for seniors um is there a designated area for that to occur yes there is
um bishop is that located in front of church it's in front of the church
is that like a loading area yes it's the loading zone we it happens every week
how how do they get into the loading area without impacting uh parking space number 10
okay the the loading area or the drop-off area is in front of the church it's not exactly here
parking lot okay so it's on the other street it's actually on the off of the street in front
of the church main door okay all the questions questions from our attorney uh yes i had a
Yes, I had a question about ownership of the three properties. With regard to the deeds that were provided, it looks like the 502-04 North 61st Street is owned by Better Way CDC.
question about ownership of the three properties.
That's correct.
And 520-22 North 61 Street is owned by Better Way Bible Church.
That's correct.
better way bible church and better way cdc are the same same people when we apply for from the city
uh they stated that we would have to do with the cdc in order to obtain the lot so that's what we
did that was what my question was are they all um do they both have come do all three of them
have common ownership yes they do thank you questions from the virtual audience
no hands at this time chair any commission the comprehensive
amy boy with the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change in
zoning to the current cmx2 commercial mixed use the proposed parking count for an existing religious
assembly use is a closer approximation to the code requirements than the existing condition
the planning commission recommends that the board grant the requested variance for a parking space
count mi2026-001-680-50618 north 61st street i vote yes michael johns my vote is yes
cheryl gaston my vote is yes tanetta graham my vote is yes i win my vote is yes thank you council
Awesome. So we're going to hear... Bishop, you can leave at this time. Thank you.
Thank you, Sheriff. Thank you, Bishop. Thank you.
We're next going to hear 13 and 14 together. It's both 109 Hilltop Road. I think there's at
least four lawyers that I know of that are involved in this. So we're going to take a
little five-minute break as you decide to get set up, okay? Give a little water.
All right. So we're doing number 13, MI 2026-001-699-109, Hilltop. Alfred Fiscaldo is the attorney.
Good afternoon, Your Honor.
All right. And I have number 14, MI 2026-001-701-109, Hilltop Road. Steve Masters is the attorney.
yes so uh and i also i have
leonard reuter
and rachel pritzker and then i'm missing one right so why don't we do this why don't we start
please state your name is spelled for the doctor alfred fiscaldo last name is f as in frank u s as
in sam c-a-l-d-o counsel for uh valerie pierce do you swear or affirm tell the truth told truth
nothing but the truth i do mr masters good morning mr chair members of the board steve masters
here on behalf of um becky and and uh becky and roger right we're a firm to tell the truth the
whole truth nothing but the truth yes i do leonard uh thank you may it please the board
Leonard F. Reuter, R-E-U-T-E-R, senior attorney for the city of Philadelphia.
Also, I'm here with my colleague in the law department, Madeline Napierkowski.
Do you need me to smell that?
Do you swear it for me to tell the truth, told you nothing about the truth?
If she comes up, we'll swear it when she comes up, okay?
If she's going to testify.
Okay, just for the record, though, so he has it.
the reporter has a m-a-d-e-l-i-n-e first name last name is n-a-p-i-e-r-k-o-w-s-k-i rachel
rachael r-a-c-h-a-e-l pritzker p-r-i-t-z-k-e-r uh we represent the property owner
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth told truth nothing but the truth yeah and counsel
Nathan Ferris, F-A-R-R-I-S, F-A-R-R-I-S, do you swear or affirm the total truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Okay, we've scheduled 35 to 40 minutes for this, so we're going to have to see where we stand and things of that nature,
but we'll test it as we go along the way.
This is an appeal against Illinois, am I correct?
Correct.
why don't we start with you so um so i i think at the beginning i think there's some housekeeping
So, at the beginning, I think there's some housekeeping.
uh yesterday
Yesterday afternoon, counsel for property owner, Mr. Farris and Ms. Pritzker, filed
a motion in Lemonade regarding exhibits that were in both mine and Mr. Master's packets.
And correct me if I misstated, what we agreed to in the hall was that we've agreed, I've
agreed from my exhibit packet to strike exhibits three, four, and five from my exhibit packet.
um the the the goal being to limit this discussion so solely to the current permit we we've had some
discussions earlier this morning about okay but we didn't we weren't wearing this yep okay um
um I am not in a position to uh to agree to the the motion to eliminate and so
we're going to have argument on that.
Rachel?
Here's
where we think we want to be.
We want to hear the testimony, and
then we'll make the decisions as we go along
with the testimony. You'll have an opportunity
to object when there's things said that
you're doing, and we'll go then,
instead of hearing the whole thing.
Is that okay?
Housekeeping's done. Why don't you start?
I think the question before the board
Should I share my code packet?
You have to go to your
Not my audio.
Where's my hand?
No, sure.
Can you keep my audio off?
Yeah, you keep your audio off.
Okay. So in the exhibit package, the remaining exhibits, we have our application for appeal at tab one. Tab two is the section of the zoning code 14701-1 and the accompanying notes, which regard the side yard setback issue that's at the center of this discussion.
Tab 6 is a zoning permit ZP 2026-000745 issued by L&I. Tab 7 is a screenshot of the City of
Philadelphia zoning summary generator for the lot at 109 Hilltop, which is the subject of this
application. That zoning summary generator is on the Atlas website and allows you to get a summary
of the applicable provisions of the zoning code as they pertain to a particular lot that's at tab
seven at tab eight are photographs of 101 hilltop which is my client's property 109 hilltop which is
the property at issue and 111 hilltop which is owned by mr master's client those photographs
are intended to just to show sure that uh my client this is 101 hilltop owns a single family
detached house that 109 is a vacant lot and that 111 is a single-family detached house
also at tab 9 is just a screenshot of atlas of the 109 hilltop property just showing that
the nature of the dwellings in and around that neighborhood being that on on this side of hilltop
road it's single-family houses on the back side along wrecks it's it's single-family attached
across the street it's a single family attached and then a certificate of tax
clearance that my my witness is Valerie Pierce so it's going back to the code
section tab 2 I'm sorry this is the reporter I did not hear that we're making
change it. Apologies. Apologies. We object to a portion of Exhibit 1, which is the prior refusal,
which is this exhibit. That's fine. I agree that those should be redacted as well. Yeah,
thanks for the clarification. So this property is zoned RSA 3. It's a, as I said, it's a vacant lot.
Certainly entitled to have something built on it, but the question is how wide do the side yards have
to be in the RSA three district I've highlighted here in yellow the code requires two side
yards of eight feet each subject to caveats that had notes footnotes eight and footnote
night. And when we go to, apologies.
And when we go to, apologies, when we go to those, so in footnote eight, there are three
sections that apply to this particular, that apply, only one applies to this particular
lot, and that is, it says, for lots bounded on both sides by the side or rear yards of
a semi-detached or detached structure a semi-detached structure is not permitted so you couldn't you can
only put a single family detached house on that lot and then it says any structure any detached
structure must be constructed in accordance with b9 which is below so when we go to b9
b9 says in the rsa3 district for lots bounded on both sides by the side yard of a semi-detached
structure, which is not our case here, any detached structure must be constructed with
a side yard on both sides, each with at least 50% minimum semi-detached side yard width
required for the permitted residential uses.
The upshot being, instead of an eight-foot side yard on both sides, you can have a four-foot
side yard on both sides, but only in the case of a property that's bounded on both sides
by a semi-detached structure, which is not our case.
And so in that case, and also below that, I would note that there's a, there's a diagram here, an illustration by the, by the code drafters that shows the illustration of what happens if you have a single family detached house boarded on both sides by semi-detached.
Again, the instance in the language above, there's, there's no, there's no language regarding what happens if there's a single family detached house between two single family detached houses.
There's no illustration as to what happens when there's a single-family detached house
between two single-family detached houses.
And so by the rules of statutory construction, by which all language in a statute needs to be given meaning,
you then go back to the default, which is two side yards of eight feet each.
Otherwise, that language has no meaning because you can't put,
If you have three lots lined up together in RSA 3, you can't, by footnote 8, you can't have a semi-detached in the middle.
So that leaves two scenarios.
You can have semi-detached, detached, semi-detached, which 9 speaks to, or you can have detached, detached, detached.
And that's not addressed in 9.
So, by default, you're then thrown back into the language of the table, which says, in
RSA 3, unless 8 or 9 apply, and which they don't in this case, because you have three
lots, all with single-family detached houses on them, you must have two 8-foot side yards.
The plan that was approved by L&I at tab 6 allowed two 4-foot side yards.
Our position is that they misapplied this provision of the code and that four-foot side yards are not permitted and eight-foot side yards are required.
I'm sorry.
I meant to also point out at tab seven, which I'll get to in a second.
Give me a minute.
at tab seven there's a widget if you will on atlas that's fairly new i guess but what it what it does
is it's called the zoning summary generator and it's you know the department of planning and
developments uh uh widget and it's and if you go on atlas on any property and you can pull up your
own property any property in in in the city you can click on the link and it'll provide you with
a summary of all the zoning ordinance provisions as they apply to your property and so this is the
zoning summary generator for 109 hilltop okay and it and it and it shows
that the minimum side yard depth required on all non-attached sides is eight feet thank you thank
Thank you. Steve, we're just going to object to that exhibit because the use of the summary generator, this document expressly states that it's not legally binding.
It does not represent an official opinion by the city.
The enacted zoning code is what controls. So this is just sort of the illustrative exercise with this, and it's not legally binding, which it discloses itself.
can i agree that the court the board can take it for the way that it gives i agree with you okay
steve um now i know you will but please try not to repeat anything
please try not to repeat anything like that's the same as what the other attorney did okay
like that's the same as what the other attorney
yes i i had i had the same idea mr chair oh well that's good we we agree
yes i i think we we should agree a lot um so i wanted to share my screen
um i anticipate that there's going to be some objections throughout my my testimony today um
exhibit one is the challenged um
BUY RIGHT PERMIT THAT WE'RE HERE FOR TODAY.
THIS BUY RIGHT PERMIT IN THE PLANS SHOWS THAT THE SIDE YARD IS ONLY 4 FEET AND IT'S SITING
A SECTION OF THE CODE NUMBER 9 BEFORE THAT MR. FUSCADO HAS ALREADY ADDRESSED.
exhibit three um is the original um application for the first uh application in this matter this
is going to be objected to by by opposing counsel um the reason that i'm i'm bringing this up is
because before you even finish but go ahead yeah i i know she's she's kind of anxious about it but
but maybe but maybe i can put a little bit of words in there so this is the same this is basically
this is the same property this is the same owner he's allowed to put on testimony about i i'd want
to hear it first and then i'll give you a shot right okay so we hear this is the same exact
property this is the same owner um it's the same uh attorney for the owner and uh
In the first iteration of this project,
there were some refusals that were issued.
Initially, there were two refusals issued
and there was not any dispute as to those two issues.
But there was a question as to why wasn't there
a refusal issued for the lack of eight foot side yards
and why was four feet side yards allowed
since this was all detached, detached, detached.
It should be eight feet. So my colleague issued a question to L and I to clarify what is the meaning of this code section.
We're at the point. Go ahead.
I want to object. So the matter that we're in front of the board today is a matter against L and I for the by right permit that was issued any prior application that was not appealed in front of this board by Mr. Masters or Mr.
fiscal or their clients is not in front of the board today so it's irrelevant whether i was the
attorney or anyone else was the attorney or that it was for the same property what mr masters and
mr fiscaldo could have appealed that refusal same proper procedure within 30 days that was not done
so what this hearing is about is the buy rate permit was issued so anything that went on in
a prior application is irrelevant so can i explain mr mr chair very clearly we're here as to whether
l and i made a mistake when they issued a buy right permit that's the issue here and we can
look and see what did l and i do to to the same property go ahead so it was a different application
for a different set of plans with a different plans examiner at a different time it's the same
plans examiner so i agree with her i agree with her okay all right so why don't you continue and
go on. All right. Um, the summary, um, the summary, uh, generator, uh, is clearly states,
there's no ambiguity. The summary generator states that it understands the minimum lot width
is 25 feet. But that's the one we talked about. No. It's not legally binding. Is that correct?
Well, yeah. Yes. There, there, there is a disclaimer. On the other hand, um, we're going
to hear um shortly from uh mr mr reuter for the city and i'm going to argue the same thing that
he i just want to put on the record that mr reuter does not speak for the city of philadelphia he
does not establish he he does not establish what let's go back to this is not legally binding i
understand that so that's not legally binding so why don't we move on and tell me where you want
to go next yeah we'll get leonard will come on once you're done okay i'll just say it looks like
he wants to jump in here well in in in in our in in in the um in the applicants um
In the applicant's exhibit binder, there is a letter from Mr. Reuter to Rachel Pritzker, basically asserting certain interpretations of the zoning code.
Mr. Reuter also had a conversation with me, along with another-
Basically, I can object to all of this.
Yeah, you can shake his head no as you're talking.
Well, attorney, you know, there's work product, there's settlement discussions or discussions in the nature of settlement discussions.
All of that's clearly privileged, and the city would strongly object to it.
I'm not going to disclose things that are privileged.
I thought you said he told you.
He did. He did. I want the board to know that there's ways to impeach your testimony.
but but um i want the board to know that uh that mr reuter has given two different opinions to two
different people on hearsay so the two different opinions one was before we're not going to go one
was one was to one was was before this this application so and now and now the one that
was current was the one where he said that he agreed that that it was eight feet again we're
object to hearsay and this is irrelevant steve yeah move on please i'm not we're not going to
go back there um okay
we have um a group of photos showing the um how the the character of the block is is very wide
side side yards um so this is 101 hilltop you can see um very yard very wide side yards on on each
side yeah i mean i if if you would i think we want to concentrate on what a ellen i did right
and that that's right we're here about so and i and i think i think you're i'm not going to call
him co-counsel but your other council here he ran through and showed pictures of the neighborhood
before so okay i don't think we need that so the the essence mr chair members of the board is that
um there is no ambiguity here the the code is very specific that when you have when you have
uh when you have all um all of the of the properties are completely detached
there's a that that requires an eight foot setback and the code also shows that uh the the 25
feet um minimum has been met here this this this property actually has more than the 25 feet
uh minimum so it it clearly applies for that to the eight point setback there is no ambiguity um
and uh um i i i i'm sorry to do this to len just because it's his birthday today but but um
But here's the thing. I was an attorney for the city for 12 years. If someone asked me for my
opinion, it would not bind me. You don't think the fact that you were a lawyer for the city for 12
years is relevant? Okay. There are code bulletins that the city uses when they actually have
official interpretations of the code that's the only way that the city can legally provide a code
interpretation we all know that the board knows that very well back in the days of gene clinger
that wasn't the case there were secret hidden files that were never revealed but now we have
no hidden files so we're right now now now we have now we have a system yeah let's go back to
l and i right what is it he had to say about that l and i has taken l and i has taken the position
that this is an eight foot setback um required and that's why they and that's why they that's
why they issued a refusal we're here and leonard's going to speak even though it's his birthday right
and then we'll find out for the position that leonard has on his birthday i just want to object
to the statement that he made so ellen i did not issue a refusal this is a buy right permit in which
the plans provide for four foot side yards okay ellen and i did issue the refusal for the first
application which was exactly the same property yeah okay all right all right yes all right uh
so darian if we go with leonard first uh by the way we all want to wish you happy birthday thank
you very much weird way to show it and if you would why don't you pull that a little closer to
you we'll get that of course um so i the issue here and i think uh certainly with respect to
all the permit application materials the site plans that were submitted you know well i think
You know, I think everybody agrees that those are authentic and we don't need any testimony
everybody agrees that those are authentic and we don't need any testimony about any of that.
about any of that.
So the question is, and I think also in terms of the dimensions of the property, the fact
that the properties on either side are fully detached properties, again, I think we can
all stipulate to those being facts.
So the question is, you have, as Mr. Fiscaldo explained, you have a fully detached property
property in between two fully detached properties and RSA, RSD3.
So the question, I'm sorry, RSA3.
So the question is, what does the code require?
So again, 109, which is the property in question, is RSA3.
It's bounded by the side yards of 101 and I think 111 Hilltop.
Uh, both of those are attached structures. Again, I mean, the, uh, the detached structures, sorry,
like I should put my glasses on. Right. So again, the code provision cited by Mr. Fiscaldo and Mr.
Masters states that for lots bounded on both sides. So this is, uh, 701, 14701, sub two, sub B,
uh, bracket eight. That's the note eight point B states for lots bounded on both sides by the
side or rear yards of semi-detached or detached structures. So, again, this provision specifically
cites detached structures as well. No, no, no, no, no, we're not doing that. We're not doing that.
Semi-detached or detached structures, a semi-detached structure is not permitted.
We all agree. So, in this situation, it has to be, this has to be also a detached structure.
So, a detached structure must be constructed as stated in 14-701, sub 2, sub B, note 9.
So, sub 14701, sub 2, sub B, sub bracket 9 or note 9, uh, applies to 109 Hilltop because
it's bounded by side yards of fully detached buildings.
note 9 says for lots bounded on both sides by the side yard of a semi-detached structure
of a semi-detached structure any detached structure must be constructed with a side yard
on both sides with it each with at least 50 percent of the minimum detached the minimum
semi-detached side yard width required for permitted residential units so the problem is so in other
In other words, if they, as Mr. Fiscaldo pointed out and as the diagram showed, if they were, if both of the properties on either 101 and 111 were, were not detached structures, they would have the four foot side yards, no ambiguity there.
the problem is again they are detached structures so nine note nine on its face wouldn't apply but
the problem is eight note eight sub point b expressly says that that has to apply it says
you have to go if you are a semi-detached force detached structure you go by you have to go by
note nine but note nine only references uh if there are semi-detached structures on either
side so the problem is uh for l and i is that there is a l and i believes there's a conflict
a strict reading and we agree and we've said this to everybody there's no ambiguity we've not told
one person one thing and another person another a purely strict reading would be i guess they only
they got to have eight foot side yards. The problem is that creates, for L and I, a problem,
and given the fact that you can have a minimum lot width of 25 feet, 16 feet of side yards means
that your structure can only be nine feet wide. So that's an absurdity, and the city's position
is that you should try to interpret the code in a way that avoids absurdities and avoids a
conflict. So, El and I made the interpretation that it's literally was just an error and that
it should have said, because note eight applies to both semi-detached, references both semi-detached
and detached structures, note nine should have also referenced both detached and semi-detached
structures. It didn't. We admit that's a problem for what it's worth. You know, we're looking to
address that but in the meantime because of the ambiguity or because of the conflict rather between
those two sections and the fact that it could lead even here at eight foot side yards on both sides
would limit this is a 29 foot 29 foot 20 29 30 foot wide lot you would have you know 16 feet of
side yards then that would limit this property to what 13 feet which you know 13 foot property if
you're talking about a center city or south philly row home it's still a little bit narrow for a row
home but for uh an area that's you know rsa3 uh in this you know
An area that's, you know, RSA 3 in this, you know, in this area where most of the properties, you know, obviously have pretty sizable, it just becomes impractical.
So, again, it's the city's position that the plans examiner made the interpretation that emerged to the least restrictive use for the property owner, and that's the city's position.
Again, we do agree that a super strict reading would require eight-foot side yards, but we believe that because that – the problem is because eight references both types of buildings,
semi-detached and detached, but nine – note nine doesn't mention detached, that's a problem, and it creates the conflict here.
Good thing.
Right.
Why don't – I think it would be easier – why don't we let the other attorneys go, and then we go to questions then, right?
Of course.
Rachel?
You might want to get closer to the mic there if you could, which one is it?
Hold that.
A lot going on.
I'm going to share my screen.
So just for the purposes of the record, we want to preserve our object objection to appellant standing a request that each applicant establish the basis upon which he or she qualifies as an aggrieved person in Philadelphia standing to appeal a zoning decision is governed by section 17.1 of the first class city home rule act.
the codes are in our memo of law which is attached as the supreme court pennsylvania supreme court
has held that an agreed person must possess an interest at a substantial direct and immediate
uh we want to make sure that each appellant identify on the record his or her relationship
and proximity to when i held up and the specific interest alleged affected by the issuance of this
permit the extent proximity is sufficient to establish standing standing and the merits
remain separate issues so standing uh permits and permits an appellant to participate but does not
establish the permit violates the zoning code um i want to just go through this same section very
briefly um related to uh and neither attorneys addressed a portion of their arguments so i'll
wait for for that to go through some of the other things you guys mentioned but um
this i know that we saw uh views of this but just so we're clear this is 109 hilltop it's 29.9
according to alicer 30 feet this is um mr fiscaldo's client's property um over to here
uh 101 and then these two properties with one home on them are mr masters uh both are which
double or three times the width of of this property just to go down to the code section
because you don't you don't need to see the character of the neighborhood
this is the buy rate permit the zoning posters that were on the property with the permit we've
We've got through the plans.
So again, just so that we put this on record,
when you look at the chart 147011 for RSA 3,
it points you down to the provision right here.
It says detached intermediate lot, which is our property.
It says two slash eight each,
and then it includes section eight and nine.
so when you scroll down to eight as was read our property is semi-detached and so you scroll down
then to nine nine when you read it says 50 of the minimum semi-detached which would be four feet
it doesn't then say if if you don't then the minimum which is eight so then you end up going
back all the way to the top again to eight side with eight and nine and you read eight and nine
again so you're in this sort of back and forth as mentioned um our interpretation of this which
we didn't interpret l and i did was that it gave effect to both eight and nine which is why you see
the four foot side yards on our proposal which does not have a refusal and what is on the permit
um i want to mention about um ambiguity because if we all can agree that this is ambiguous and
confusing um the benefit both in the code and in case law is that it's to the benefit of the land
The benefit, both in the code and in case law, is that it's to the benefit of the land owner for the less restrictive use of the code in no situation. Is it to the benefit of an upset neighbor or a more restrictive reading?
It says in our code, and specifically the Philadelphia zoning code, it says, where the meaning of a restriction in the zoning code is ambiguous and the intent cannot be discerned through the usual rules of statutory construction.
the restriction shall be construed in favor of the landowner provided that the resulting
construction does not lead to irrationality in the zoning code so um accordingly if the board
is unable to harmonize notes eight and nine then and if both owners and appellants interpretations
remain reasonable the provisions are ambiguous if ordinary statutory discussion construction
does not resolve the ambiguity 142014 requires that the restriction be construed in favor of
the landowner i want to just mention the definition of ambiguity which is from a case that was in
front of the commonwealth court the commonwealth court and the citations to these cases are in
the memo of law so i will not read them to keep it brief the commonwealth court explained that
ordinance language is ambiguous when it is susceptible to more than one reasonable
interpretation or is vague, uncertain, or indefinite. So if the board does not necessarily
agree with L&I reading of it, which resulted in a permit with two four-foot side yards,
then it's ambiguous and it's to the benefit of the landowner. Before I allow my co-counsel,
if I missed anything, I just want to reiterate for this property in particular,
to the city's point, when you look at this site in particular, you have a 30-foot wide property
with that's 75 feet deep. The approved interpretation, which resulted in the zoning
permit, is two four-foot side yards with a 22-foot building. If we were to take the
appellate's interpretation, we've had two eight-foot side yards with a 14-foot wide building
envelope. That doesn't include walls. That's just the building envelope. So appellate's interpretation
would result in 16 feet of the 30-foot wide lot to remain inside yards, leaving only 14 feet of
potential building with, where the code admits competing reasonable interpretation prohibits
resolving the uncertainty through an implied enlargement of the restriction against the
landowner so you based on their interpretation you'd have over 50 percent of the lot would be
open space and yardage so in this particular instance if the board agrees it's ambiguous
it would be the four foot side yards which again ellen i did agree with and issued um the permit
co-counsel um very briefly well that's great go ahead i just want to add one one principle i think
would be helpful for the board to keep in mind as it's reading this code and that's that mr reuter
has now told us what l and i's interpretation is and this board has to defer to l and i's
reasonable interpretations they're the agency that's tasked with administering this code so
i just think that's an important point here their interpretation is entitled to death okay
you started to say something before yeah issue to wait to the end yeah so i think i mean mr reuter
just stated on the record that he agreed that L and I would agree that the strict reading of this
code would require two eight-foot side yards. That's not what he said. I think it is.
I can tell you what he said. He said he did say it, and sorry, it's your birthday. He did say it,
and he also qualified it and said, I think it creates a problem for this lot, to paraphrase.
Which I don't disagree, but that's what the variance process is for.
If the ordinance creates a hardship on a lot, then that's where this needs to go.
And by granting a buy-right permit, just because you don't think that the ordinance is doing right by a lot, bypasses the entire civic engagement portion of the code.
There's no RCO meetings. There's no discussions with the civic associations.
You're just given a buy-right permit, and there's no conversation.
So I think that Mr. Reuter is very good at his job, but I don't think he's allowed to legislate, right?
He's acting as a legislator right now.
He's saying, yeah, it says eight feet, but I'm just going to make it four feet.
And what that does, it makes it.
I didn't hear him really say that.
It makes it four feet, not only for this lot, but for every lot across the entire RSA 3 district, not just small ones, all of them.
And that's not what the code says.
okay thank you steve yeah i would just emphasize that um we're here
thank you yeah i would just emphasize that um we're here on on this is a buy right permit and
there is no ambiguity mr reuter clearly stated that the the strict reading which means a correct
reading of the of the code is that it requires eight feet he he then elaborated that he thought
that that was it would cause a hardship and misfortune to the property owner but that's
for this board to decide when it's properly if before you as as a as an uh an appeal from from
a denial by lni so uh that's why we're that's why we appealed against lni because this this basically
is the wrong way to do this process that that lni needs to to receive back this application
lni needs to receive the this this application back issue a refusal and then it goes through the
the normal appeal process but but by short-circuiting here it destroys the the whole the whole um
fabric of what we're trying to do rachel so i just want to object um so in uh the in steve's
and the appellants uh appealed that he did there was no mention of this new issue he's bringing up
where we need to go through a variance process you cannot add on issues you have to plead them
initially we have to have a chance to defend them so there's you mentioned the eight foot side yards
you mentioned the two-year rule you did not mention anything about circumventing the the
variance process for this case and also uh i would object to mischaracterization of mr reuter's
testimony the board heard mr reuter's testimony so if he wants to repeat it he can but and then
the the last uh thing i just wanted to you know mention is that again the there's from a court
perspective and legal precedent perspective you have to look at all and and mr fiscaldo beautifully
said is you have to give meaning to all the words of the statute and the words include
eight and nine it doesn't say eight or nine is it doesn't say eight or doesn't say nine if you're
you can't only cherry pick eight you can't only cherry pick nine has to look at eight nine and
eight sends you to nine and nine doesn't send you back to the chart so wait wait wait leonard sure
uh and again just to clarify a couple things uh first of all i mean i understand that the board
whereas in attorneys, but strictly speaking, this is art, at least right now, for the most
part, this has been argument, not testimony. And secondly, I don't want to repeat myself
too much here, but again, so first of all, it's not Leonard Reuter's interpretation of
the code that matters. It's what L and I did, and I'm explaining what L and I did, and what
L and I did is they made a determination. Again, maybe when I said strictly read, I should
mean the plain language plain language again i again we've made this clear to both parties here
both sets of parties that nine doesn't reference nine doesn't address the situation of a detached
property of a property that is in between detached properties even mr fiscal though agreed it does
it doesn't address it they so yeah a strict reading of if you just read that section by itself
you would say guess it's got to have eight foot side yards the problem is
note eight says when you're between two properties and you're facing the side yards of two different
properties whether those are detached whether those are semi-detached or fully detached you
have to go by nine so it's saying if you know you're red and blue you got to do what nine says
and you get there and nine only talks about blue, what's red supposed to do? That's the problem
that's here. So yes, nine by itself would appear to require eight foot side yards. The problem is
eight requires L&I to apply nine if the property's detached property. Again, they can say,
they can interpret what I'm saying, which is what they're doing. They're interpreting what I'm
saying and that's fine but what i'm saying is what i did and that's the that's what uh the the board
is supposed to be looking at it okay so this is this is a and i agree with um mr ferris this is
a purist with him well on this point oh okay what what that is this is a pure statutory construction
discussion i agree and and so um you need to you need to give import to all the words and so
where it says two eight foot side drives are required that's that's the default and eight
and nine are carve outs and so it's it's a funnel and it takes you down so it's so there's there's
four scenarios there's four scenarios that eight and nine allow in terms of how properties are
aligned there's there's two with semi-detached in the middle but eight strikes those out that
that says so you can't have that and then it throws the other two into nine where you have
says so you can't have that and then it throws the other two into nine where you have
Thank you.
detached in the middle and semi-detached or detached on the sides and then and then it
carves out one of those so the funnel gets narrower but it leaves one and that one is what's left in
in the in the in the chart where it's two eight foot side yards because otherwise that language
has no meaning and i'd ask mr mr reuter to if if every side yard is four feet and of course you
know, as you interpret it, why is it to say two eight-foot side yards? The language is there for
a reason. Okay, we don't ask questions. Yeah, but I mean, that's the question. Why is it there?
Again, this provision only applies when the property in the middle is surrounded by side
yards. So, it only applies in that situation. And I guess one would also ask, like,
I mean, the whole idea of this provision was to prevent what some people used to call twingles, where you would have half of a semi-detached property and forcing that to be on the boundary so that you would have a sidewall on the party line that would have no windows, and you see this weird situation now and then.
And this provision was intended to prevent that.
The problem is it's just between this eight foot, you know, this what side yard applies
and it's just a problem with the language.
It really, you know, I think for purposes of planning, whether it's eight feet or four
feet probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference, but it makes no sense for it to
be four feet in most instances like this, especially when the lot sizes for RSA3 are
typically not that wide.
I just wanted to respond to Rachel's argument that that I don't have standing and that and
that I didn't ask that my clients don't have standing and and that I don't have I didn't
I didn't plead the proper grounds for for the appeal in our in our in my appeal which
is in in exhibit uh two um it clearly states that uh in addition to the two-year rule which
we argued um that this um there was no lawful basis um to grant the second application it
was it was directly contradicts all the prior rulings by lni of the lni determination and
amended refusal so that's why this permit should be immediately revoked by the zba there's only
one way one reason why somebody would take an appeal against lni of a bri right permit and
that's because it was wrong to have a buy right permit so it's that that's um that's what we
argued and so we definitely have claimed that um so just for a point of clarification what i
objected to was you adding in a new argument about asking for us to do a variance i agreed with the
things that you already laid out here and I did not object to any of those things, just so we don't get off topic and I just want to.
comment on one last one last point I don't know how I don't have screen sharing again but.
But I think it's important if we're giving weight to all the words that if you look at
note 8B, it says, for lots founded on both sides by the side or rear yards of semi-detached
or detached structure, a semi-detached structure is not permitted.
Any detached structure must be constructed as stated in 14701 to B9, must be constructed.
not could be not if you want to must be and so that is the exact reason why it was 50 percent
of the full of the eight feet which gives you four feet the language is any detached structure
must be construed as stated in nine so there is no uh question whether you go to nine or not it
says it must be and so if we're giving weight to all the words must is as strong of a word
as anybody could rely on for this provision.
So I think we've heard from all sides of this, right?
Lynn, what I'm thinking about doing is a final,
maybe they give us a little,
there are final position papers, right?
Correct.
Maybe two weeks?
How long would it take to write up this case?
Two weeks is fine for me.
Two weeks is fine by me.
I'll actually be out for a while.
Could we make it three weeks?
We'll make it three weeks.
Because it's your birthday.
i mean it's your it's a belated birthday party right so we'll make it three weeks that it should
be in and then we're going to vote in three weeks i just wanted to ask len to um put her out there
is does l i just you didn't mention does l and i have any um plans to revoke the permit i think
Plans to revoke the permit. I think it's important if that that be mentioned before. Yeah, I mean, no, I mean, the department, you know, again, I think you laid out exactly where the department, we wouldn't, we wouldn't revoke. And I, I see where the two of you are, right? Right. So, well, Mr. Chair, we, we, we should get our clients to, to adopt our testimony so that they can, um, they can demonstrate that they have standing. I don't, I don't believe there was any testimony.
I think it's important that that be mentioned before.
I mean, there's only been oral argument.
That's right.
I mean, I don't, you know.
Rachel, Rachel objected to my client's standing.
I just wanted them to put that.
I understand the standing position.
So you, Grant, standing by my client?
We understand it.
And I don't want to bring people in
because this is really about L&I, what happened.
Right?
Okay, but they are here and they are willing to testify.
They're on your every word.
I'm sitting here watching.
So we'd like to vote on this in three weeks.
chair what to you wanted the papers in three weeks i think we should delay it more than okay
all right so then so the the vote will then be on september 16th at 9 30 a.m right and this is
closed this is we're done we're closed are those i'm sorry just first time i'm back since covid
are those those memos submitted by email in the portal how do you want those delivered
email's fine email to everybody all parties okay uh and what's the date for the board council
what's what's the date the board council later than the date they want to have the ninth
the ninth september 9th it would be three weeks out and then oral argument as ian indicated would
be the 16th which would be the next i'm sorry uh vote excuse me the vote would be the next week
the 16th. So thank you to everybody. Thank you. Leonard, have a good birthday. And as maybe
nobody else, everybody else knows, this is Steve's last day. Basically, he's retiring. And
well, we thank you for your service. You've been a very good advocate for your clients.
Thank you. Right. What a lawyer does. Thank you, everybody. All right. Thank you. All right. And
we have one more right that's right sir
all right oh that's right why you don't want to come back
let's see let me see here what what one do i have
number 17 right
number 17
mi 2026 004 084 2815 north 2nd street um is this sean whalen's case yes oh there he is i
even see you here. Yeah, well, this is listed as a reconsideration. Is that what we're
talking about, but there's just a regular hearing. Am I right? Just a regular hearing.
Reconsideration was already granted now when we're just hearing. Mr. Whalen, could you
please state your name and spell for the stenographer? Certainly. Sean Whalen, W-H-A-L-E-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do. Okay. Can you identify your client and relationship to the property?
Yes. I am the attorney for the owner and applicant, the LLC, which is…my notes aren't coming up, so I apologize. The LLC that owns the property, I think it's EG…
It's EGPA Investments?
EGPA Investments. I apologize.
Okay, last week it was a hockey team. If I remember. Yes. All right. I'm all over the map. Our vice chair has a few questions. Good afternoon. Have you submitted your documents and exhibits 5 days in advance of this hearing?
Yes, I did. And do you wait to read another refusal and stipulate to us accuracy? Yes, I do. Okay. Thank you. You can share your screen and proceed with your case.
Thank you.
uh so this is 2815 north second street um i understand there there was some prior confusion
So this is 2815 North 2nd Street.
with this matter i can tell you there's nothing all that interesting about it we have unanimous
support from the rco so i'll be brief i don't need 14 council up here to argue with me about
everything you're going to do it yourself i'll argue with myself it's uh
sometimes that's how you get the best arguments right uh well you have 16 minutes if you're
interested i don't it does not appear that i'm a panelist so that i can't show you the screen
make sure he's a panelist team do you see the uh invite now mr whalen
i have zoom but i don't see any i don't see a panelist invite
yeah i did uh i did promote you to uh panelists i don't know about there
i can try one more time okay please do yeah because i don't have the share screen option at
the bottom let me know if the invite has come to you it has not
Can someone assist with Mr. Whalen, please?
it's happened once before i think it actually might be because
of the time we're at the end of your session
we can't skip and go to the next one so
there we go I got the invite
All right.
So hopefully now you can see my screen.
We can, we see your screen.
Okay. So as I was starting to say before, this is 2815 North 2nd Street. The reason why this is coming up, maybe as a reconsideration, is that there was some confusion with my client who's not English as her first language.
sure she she believed that she was speaking with the rco right she was emailing with rcozba
dot or at phila.gov right so the case got dismissed i i got brought on to revive it
now we're right here as i must be heard so uh again the the issue is very tame today
then she'll be able to understand when we yes yeah she can understand sure um so what you're
What we're seeing right now is the Atlas City map. This is an aerial. We have we front on North 2nd Street and go all the way back to Pale Thorpe Street.
There is no request for additional development or increase in height with this project.
So what you can see now, 2815 again is this highlighted portion. We go all the way back front to rear.
the only other property similar to us previously was 2813 that went you can see goes all the way
back this is the deed map this board granted about a year ago I think a subdivision to subdivide
there's a double wide garage back here that now is its own property we have an existing
building at the front and a single car garage at the rear. So again, the zoning map actually
is very pertinent here. We are zoned RSA 5. I could not figure out.
We are zoned RSA 5.
I could not figure out why this happened,
but only 2815 and 2813 are on the entire block of North 2nd Street are zoned RSA 5.
Everything else is zoned RM1, the entire length of it.
Again, 2813 already came in for a variance.
And 2815, the highlighted one where we are, again,
So again, if we were zoned RM1, we would be by right and not be in front of you.
So again, we have one refusal, which is for household living of four units in an RSA 5 district.
Again, if this were RM1, we have enough.
We are actually 1461 square feet.
So we actually have enough to have four units by right if we were RM1 like everything else on that front's on 2nd Street.
The issue arises because my client purchased the property two years ago and was provided at closing a four-unit zoning permit.
So she bought it understanding the property was four units.
We have determined the property has been vacant for at least 15 years, maybe 20-plus years.
I'll show some interior photos, but it's pretty rough inside, so we can't determine to capture Board Member Wynne's first question when she's going to come at me.
We can't decide right now how many units or what it was last built as in the interior.
You can see in a couple of photos we have, there's like a random toilet sitting in a room that looked like it probably was the living room or something of the sort. So we just don't know exactly what it was.
So again, my client purchased this property with a 2015 buy right zoning permit that was stamped in 2022 by the department of L&I stating that it was in fact a true and correct zoning permit.
What happened was my client went to proceed and reached out to LNI that she was going to proceed about a year ago with actually, you know, improving this property into four units.
And LNI told her that her zoning permit was not valid. It had been expired and was not there.
So essentially what we're doing is trying to legalize the prior four unit zoning permit so that she can proceed with what she thought she was buying.
again not sure why the aerial maps do this the red dot is actually not on 2815 it's on 2817
we are the one just below that you can see we have an existing three-story building at the front
we have an existing one car deep garage at the back and there is open space in the middle
again this is this is the property right there we have behind us an open surface parking lot
and you'll see so again this is this is the the status of the prop of the um of the property
here's the original property it's right here it actually has uh two separate doors going up to it
It only has one functional set of staircase at the moment.
This property and everything to the south are three stories.
The property adjacent to us at 2817 and everything to the north appears to be essentially two stories.
Again, everything is on one on this side of the block. This is the east side of the block.
The west side of the block is all industrially zoned and has.
So you can start to see there's a commercial warehouse here that appears to be vacant and has been for some time. A lot of vacant land. This is to the north. This is to the south of us. And what we have directly across from us, again, is this is some kind of auto use. It was active, but I couldn't find permitting for it to determine exactly what it is.
So this is, I'm standing at the front stairwell of our property.
This is now Pailthorpe Street. Pailthorpe Street is a single-family residential two-story block.
It's almost entirely built out. I think there's only one vacant parcel on that block.
So it makes sense that everything that fronts on Pailthorpe would be RSA 5 single-family.
this next to us is the two car garage that was just subdivided off as a separate parcel by the
board about a year ago this roll top garage door is our is the back of our property
and again that's just a better image of where it is this is the back of our property we're
a better image of where it is this is the back of our property we're attached on both sides
attached on both
again there's no new height or massing envisioned for this project
so these are these are the interior photos as you start to go in that doorway
here again is the one that i was saying there's there's a toilet right by a window which appears
to be probably a prior living room everything is stripped and in very bad condition
again we couldn't find the last indication of what the use actually was although every property
adjacent to us is divided into multi-family units so that's why on second street just to be clear
on second street everything is multi-family units depending on the size the larger projects are
three and four uh the three story i should say buildings are three and four units the two story
buildings all appear to be two units although i can't guarantee because i couldn't find records
proving all um so again we're going through and just while i'm describing this just to
to state uh we do not have uh plans developed for this yet we're just trying to uh this is
This is this woman's first project, first investment property in the city that she was purchasing, obviously kind of went sideways on her.
The envisioned position is going to be that there's going to be no basement living.
That's where the mechanicals are going to be. The basement will be accessible by everyone, so it will have some kind of storage.
maybe uh she hasn't determined yet if every bill every property will have or every apartment rather
will have in unit washer dryer or if the washer and dryer will be communal in the basement
but that's going to be the unfinished basement there will be a uh a two bedroom on the first
floor two studios on the second floor and a one bedroom on the third floor is how she has it
currently laid out four four uh again sure the first floor is going to be one two bedroom oh
okay all right i got it i might have i might have yeah i thought of those i apologize okay yeah so
there's going to be one unit on the first floor one unit on the third floor and two units on the
second floor um is how she has it laid out obviously this is all subject to an architect
coming in and saying you know this is the layout that works this actually is a building plan um
So I can't, I can't attest that, you know, four units will fit and it might have to be dropped to three, but she purchased it as a four unit so that's why I'm here to kind of legalize the prior four unit building.
We met with Hase.
We had actually a pretty good turnout, especially for an August meeting, and they voted 10-0 in support.
actually the only concerns that they had is they have had some building fires in
that neighborhood and so they they put a condition in here that we have on all
upper floor units we have a rollout emergency ladder at the door at the
windows we agreed to that and we also agreed that what we will do is we will
put a door opening in the rear of the existing garage because right now that's
a solid cinder block wall at the back so you have you enter from 2nd Street
You have the existing building at 2nd Street. You can go out to a rear yard off of 2nd Street. And then that one car garage that I depicted shown off of Pale Thorpe is actually just a solid building by itself.
We did agree with Jose to open a doorway in the back of that garage wall so that people in the event of an emergency could get through the garage out to Pale Thorpe Street just for fire safety.
And obviously, when this goes forward, this is going to have to meet all – there's no grandfathering here.
This is going to have to meet all current fire codes.
Four units have to have fire?
So, yes, the building will be sprinkled.
But they want –
They want additional considerations, yeah.
So, again, just to be clear, this will have to meet all 2026 fire code requirements.
There's no question about what it gets to do or not do based on prior use.
Again, we can't determine the prior use.
But it does have multiple doors. It does have apparently, you know, multiple multi-unit layout. So Hase was fully in favor. They voted 10-0 in support.
And then this is, that's the extent of it. That's with all the documentation.
So, yes, Lenny Santos.
Thank you.
she told me earlier she was on so we were joining us a panel shortly council mr chair
i would just say it's kind of hard not seeing what you think the apartments look like
and i understand this may be her new at this but it's kind of hard to sit here and figure out
especially the second floor how those two small apartments look like so i'm not i don't i i think
most of the people up here might struggle a little bit without having any plans at all
i understood and i thought you might uh might i suggest that we wrap up everything today yeah we
can leave it open and i'll go back to her and say we need to support well okay you know provide plans
all right could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
what's her name uh lenny oh hi hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
yes i am lenny santos and i'm here on behalf of the applicant owner of 28 15 on 2nd street
what's that again what does that mean she's on behalf of the owner the owner is an llc and she
is here as the representative of the llc okay is she the owner of the llc the owner of the llc is
candida ortega taveras she does not speak english and oh okay yeah she can't adopt your testimony
but you can call her as a witness uh legally sorry mr chairman yeah legally i would disagree
with that but i'm happy to proceed okay um so i mean what we would have done is have an interpreter
Right. Right. For for the owner. Right. And if if she owned this in her individual name, listen, why don't why don't we do this? I think you know where we stand. Right. OK. That you have to come back. And why don't we do a resumptive hearing. OK. All right. One twelve eight twenty six. Because I can't say to planning, what do you think of this one? There's really nothing to look at. Right. Well, yeah, I understand the position. I'm not arguing. No, no, no. I know.
position but i i do think and and obviously i've done this a lot with you guys normally i would
bring plans and i would have except for the fact that there was already a buy right permit for four
units yeah i saw that but then it just seemed to disappear right so all i'm saying is why don't you
come back you know have a degree of plans that we understand and then bring the owner or or another
member of the LLC. And then what we'll do, and if there's a problem with English, we'll have
the interpreter here. Like we did twice today. Right. Given the length of delays here, is there
any way we can bring this back? So I would say I wanted to go with 12-826 now, 930. And what I
would do is I would check to see if there's an opening anywhere. And Ian just put his head down
because he hates when i do this you know he's in the back shaking his head at me now um but we we
would see if there's a possibility to bring her back a little bit early but then again you need
some time to to put something together right i do want to state for the record i do think that even
though the rco already uh weighed in on this and sent a letter that without seeing any uh proposed
plans that there should need to be another rco meeting if plans are no okay i just i will still
say for the record i do think that it's hard to make a decision when you can't see what is being
proposed board member when when we get plans i'm happy to share them with the head of the rco right
and obviously she can then that they can bring forward any issues that they may have but we
wouldn't have it so so you had the date and you know we'll we'll pick it up where we left off okay
okay all right chairman can i just i wanted to put on the record it looks like you have parking
on the property correct yes garage right one existing parking space uh in the existing garage
that is not part of this um appeal correct okay so if you're going to do something to
you want to legalize that that's going to have to be a separate application correct okay i just
want to make sure because you kept mentioning you have the parking space but this is just a change
of use no i i apologize if i may spoke i did not intend to say that i have we have a parking space
We have a one, we have an existing one car garage or single wide garage is what I said.
We do not have.
And that's the garage you want to open up the back door so people can escape from the house.
Correct.
So, so I, I agree with you.
I was not talking about a parking space and I apologize if I'm mistaken.
Thank you.
All right.
So thank you very much.
Right.
And is there anyone in the audience whose 930 case has not been called?
uh mr chair i do not see any hands raised for any matters thank you everybody see everybody at 2 p.m
Mr. Chair, I do not see any hands raised with any matters.
Thank you.
and mr chair excuse me for uh one last note just uh if anyone is here for case number mi2026001790302
market street that case will be heard at the start uh at two of two around two o'clock thank you
Does anyone dislike what Ian Haggerty is right with it?
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
okay chair we're ready to proceed there are 14 attendees in the virtual audience how many 14 oh
Oh boy. Good. So we're going to go back. We have one case left from the 930 list. So it's MI 2016 001 790 302 Market Street. Adam Labor is the attorney. Mr. Labor. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon. Could you please state and spell.
mr labor yes mr chairman good afternoon could you please state and spell your name
adam labor l a v as in victor e r do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and
nothing but the truth yes mr chairman would you want to could you identify your client in
relationship to the property yes uh blank room represents rp doe 16 incorporated as well as shah
management company uh they are uh the first entity is the lessee of the subject property
uh the principal is also the owner of the subject and there's a letter of support from the old city
rco and also a letter of support from council member squilla our vice chair has a few questions
good afternoon madam thank you sir hi good afternoon have you submitted your documents
in exhibits five days in advance of this hearing yes miss graham we have okay and this is a referral
so are you ready to read the referral and stipulate to its accuracy yes ma'am all right
thank you you can share your screen proceed with the case thank you
there we go members of the board on the screens before you is a conceptual rendering
of the subject property. 302 Market Street is the second property in off of the corner.
We are proposing the use registration of a new Dunkin, formerly known as Dunkin' Donuts,
location on the ground floor of 302 Market Street. With us in the virtual hearing room is Pari Shah,
who's president and principal of local local duncan franchisee shah management company also
here sitting directly behind me in the hearing room is brian mccauley director of operations
we also have rich villa who i believe is participating virtually the architect of
record from ambit architecture we've appeared before this zoning board previously although
I don't think we appeared before all of you. It's been a few years. Shaw Management is a local
minority-owned business with nearly a 40-year-long public record of investment in the community,
both economically and charitably. Puri has been recognized nationally as Duncan's Franchisee of
the year why am i taking a moment to share this background with you uh in the uh franchise
community uh an honor like this uh speaks to good operations a track record uh and and that
is at the national level locally hurry uh and this group are lead sponsors of philadelphia's
thanksgiving day parade and many other charitable endeavors so really at the heart of the fabric
and i fully recognize at the outset mr chairman and members of the board that there are those
in the community who who love the local business and may not see a uh a national duncan franchise
as local the coffee is going to be consistent across the country the donuts are going to be
consistent across the country. But this is locally owned and operated. Brian was just telling me
that he was out at six or seven of the local businesses today to check in on operations.
That's the way Perry and Brian run things.
Perry's newest Duncan location would be new construction. I had shown you the conceptual
rendering at 302 Market Street, which you can see over here where the cursor is, is off of
not, not at the corner, but the second in off of Third Street. It would complement other Duncan
locations under Prairie's Banner, 808 Chestnut, 1100 Walnut, 1204 Chestnut, among others. And I'd
from personal observation as each of you can not every duncan is run the same not every wawa is
run the same um we know uh in philadelphia for example that unfortunately we've seen
uh wawas leaving uh town uh trying to balance panhandling issues and safety issues well puri
and the team they've dealt with this head on uh they do it through uh positive engagement with
their professionals and ownership in a positive way, not in a negative way, but ownership of
In a positive way, not in a in a negative way, but ownership of clean sidewalks and areas immediately adjacent to their premises.
So here we have the aerial photograph, and if you were to walk by shirt corner is is in that location to keep them going as long as possible.
But Duncan would be proposed in the new in the new site. It's about 1000 square feet, the lot itself.
And it's wedged between two other takeout franchises, Primo's and Hangry Joe's hot chicken.
So you can see Hangry Joe's on the left and Primo's on the right.
Primo's operates, I understand, in 12 states, 120 locations.
hangry joe's 130 nationwide so in the context uh this is very this this certainly meets uh what's
immediately next door now there are also philadelphia gems close by if you go a couple
to the right or to the west is uh alan yin's uh amazing fork restaurant my wife's favorite
restaurant uh which is a philadelphia treasure that's been around but for both locals and for
those visiting our city we need options for everybody uh and duncan provides to the to
the tourists with the kids who are walking from franklin court down the down the street and mom
and dad want their coffee and the kids want something quick as a snack an option for that
And then the sophisticated and those with greater means, perhaps, or just choosing something different. There's the amazing restaurants like Fork and others.
So we believe that this would complement all of that.
The entrance to be I skipped ahead the entrance to the commercial spaces off of Market Street.
There are separately as I'll show in the permit in a moment in the new construction.
There are three residential dwellings above, and those are accessed from the rear separately
and independently off of third street in a really um quaint and classic old city way
uh that preserves the commercial on market but gives the separate entrance in the back
that construction that i just alluded to is fully approved by prior permits that you can see before
you and in fact that prior permit includes the commercial space at the ground floor so why are
we here we have a notice of referral not not a variance as noted previously a request for take
out under the overlay the old city overlay district regulates restaurant uses on this
stretch of market street from front up to north 5th and restaurant uses as you've seen members
of the board are in fact the most common use along that corridor the restaurant use is otherwise
is otherwise permitted by the cmx 3 zoning district where the property is situated nearly every parcel on the south side of market is a restaurant use many including takeout here are proposed floor plans and they depict at the left the basement and at the right
the first floor space the basement is is just back of house storage uh and really duncan's full
operations would be uh at the first floor upon entry into the commercial space customers would
readily place orders via ada accessible self-serve kiosks beyond the kiosks customers will circulate
to the staffed order counter for pickup and interaction with local philadelphia employees
and uh there is on-site trash storage waste will be rolled out as parry has at all of his
uh locations through totes through the plastic bins service which i just confirmed with brian
this afternoon at least three times per week by the existing commercial waste hauler that the team
uses republic it could be more than that but we don't anticipate it and they know they know the
operations quite well incidentally members of the board trash for the
residences also comes out through the back end as I told you before the
residential tenants enter through the back so there's a synergy of interests
for clean good housekeeping as well while keeping Market Street which is a
a national treasure and we welcome visitors from around the world while keeping that clear of this
national treasure and we welcome visitors from around the world while
keeping
type of traffic I just wanted to show you quickly uh some images of other Philadelphia locations
under uh Perry's banner simply for illustrative purposes um each one includes different site
layout of course and I'm sure you're all familiar with this the project was reviewed by the
coordinating rco uh old city district which issued the attached letter that is up before you the
letter indicates the unanimous board support and also other thoughts from those who attended but
it was a relatively small group as you can see several operational details about the project
stood out to neighbors including that the proposed restaurant will serve neighbors as a fully takeout
amenity to both near and upstairs neighbors the restaurant will also hire locally approximately
20 employees at the location with five to ten employees per shift the hours of operation would
be seven days per week this would not be an empty space 5 a.m to 10 p.m proposed providing an active
use at the location crash as previously described would be through rolled totes regularly serviced
at least three times per week deliveries are limited to once per week during midday hours
also by a company that specifically serves duncan i'd like to note that the central district plan
recommends creating quote a vibrant mix of uses end quote that provides quote an energetic and
creative environment for residents workers and visitors in closing the criteria set forth in
section 14 303 7 e1 and 7 e2 we believe have been demonstrated meeting the definition for
use permitted by special exception the grant of a special exception will not cause detrimental
impacts to the neighborhood beyond that which might normally be expected from the proposed use
congestion in public streets or transportation systems should not increase based on a Duncan
at this location overcrowding of land is not at issue this will not impair an adequate supply of
light and air to adjacent property nor will it burden water sewer school park or other public
facilities we do not see this as impairing or permanently injuring the use of adjacent
conforming properties even though side note we have non-conforming right uh nor will this endanger
the public health or safety by fire or other means i should note that there's not a traditional
cooking on premises the nature of the duncan model is too heat no deep fryers no heavy exhaust
uh which uh adds to the uh synergy of interest with the residential above but also high-end
establishments like fork being just a couple properties by and and tourists and others just
having a pleasant environment uh this is uh consistent uh with the comprehensive plan and
i'm pleased to uh speak additionally should the board have any questions the full team is available
as i said why don't you bring your client on to adopt your testimony okay uh i'm going to see if
mr shah is available virtually sure parry shah would you please raise your virtual hand to be
recognized by chairman bergman ryan in the interim would you just step up here because you can do so
if purry is having technical difficulty brian why don't you state your name and spell for the
stenographer yes it's brian b-r-i-a-n mccauley m-c-c-a-u-l-e-y do you swear or affirm to tell
the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do counsel mr mccauley uh you've been present
for the entirety of this uh hearing before the philadelphia zoning board of adjustment correct
yes and would you adopt and affirm the testimony that i've offered as your own
yes i do thank you sir questions from the board stay there what's the intended use for the
basement space the intended use um is when is is just storage and and really um
supplemental storage so you'll have mechanicals down there but duncan really believes that most
of its uh storage and usage will be at the first floor the 1100 square feet and then what's your
and usage will be at the first floor, the 1100 square feet.
And then what's your plan for addressing takeout,
plan for
not individual customers, but like takeout services
like Grubhub, Uber used to like?
This, the Shaw franchise really takes direct employee
education and training, as I had mentioned,
in the context of panhandling issues
that Philadelphia has to deal with quite seriously.
So it's a challenge right in any instance, but working with defined loading zones that are on Market Street and and employee education is the best way to confront that and manage it, I should say all the questions.
yes so you said there's no cooking there's that what i heard there's heating there's there's
there's no frying there the food comes in in a state where it can be heated and finished um
in a very straightforward way so you need preventing is that there will be there really
is not a need for it but there will be venting to the rear um just for best practices but i'm i want
to put it on the record there is no no deep frying no heavy cooking um and that's that's the same
model that we've shared uh in prior matters before the board for duncan so i guess maybe i didn't ask
then so then how do you make these donuts the donuts come in from off-site but maybe brian
can address that better all right because you're not doing it at this thing you're not you're not
rolling you're not doing okay no we we have a bakery in in another oh i'm sorry we have a bakery
in another area outside of the city that that prepares the donuts so that none of that frying
and discarding of grease or any of that needs to be done in the restaurants anymore while keeping
them fresh as possible okay so that's where the delivery comes in yes ah all right okay thank you
but you can miss gaston to be fully clear it's it's at a state where it can be brought in kept
refrigerated and and finished in a way that that has that fresh seriously that has that last
freshness piece to it so it's not it's not sitting around and as i stated before you don't need to
have the delivery every day to achieve that that freshness function okay thank you questions from
our attorney no questions at this time mr chairman your comments from the virtual or the present
audience here um yes chair this is jason hand i will be your co-host for this session
i have a hand up from an ellen yen i will allow them to speak sure
um thank you so much um sure could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer
yes ellen yen e-l-l-e-n last name is y-i-n do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole
truth nothing but the truth i do thank you liver do you live or operate in the area i um own and
operate um fork restaurant at 306 market street and i am a um homeowner of 258 south third street
and have lived in the area for close to 40 years.
Thank you very much. Please, Rashid.
Thank you so much for allowing me the opportunity to speak.
I actually am neighbors with Shaw Management on Chestnut Street
because I operate High Street, which is at 834 Chestnut Street,
as well as the bread room also um on the same block as the dunkin donuts on chestnut street so
i don't have any complaints per se about the um the applicant however having been on market street
um we are now going to be celebrating our 30th year on market street um and our restaurant has
It's been one of the first restaurants that opened in Old City.
It is a higher end restaurant.
However, what I'm most concerned about is the mix, because what we have right now on
the south side of Market Street is three takeout operations, and I even have a takeout
license.
So I can't say that I couldn't allow a takeout license.
But the problem for me is that what you're seeing along Market Street, which is now going to be the walkway to the new waterfront.
which is now going to be the walkway to the new waterfront park.
And I'm on the board of Delaware River Waterfront Corporation.
And I have also served on the Old City District for many years prior to this.
Is that you see a lot of casual and nightlife type businesses.
And on Market Street between 3rd and 4th, the type of takeout business that Dunkin' Donuts represents is very similar in nature.
And I'm worried because, you know, as the waterfront develops and as we want to see, you know, the historic district have this pathway.
We just invested tons of money on the bicycle path, improving the sidewalk experience for visitors.
I am concerned that too much of the same is an issue.
We have a hangry chicken, which does require security in the evening.
We have a 7-Eleven on the south side of the 200 block of Market Street.
um there are there there's just many businesses that are all purely take out and not dine in
and i feel that that is a negative um direction for old city and i you know we we saw south
street um become go in that direction and now struggling to um you know revive itself
and doing a great job with more independent businesses so you know i just want to voice
my concern okay um counselor you have any questions
i really don't i have tremendous respect for mizian and uh would just like to state on behalf
of my client uh that um this is the issues mizian uh mentions are ones that we're very aware of
and that we take seriously and we think distinguishes our operations
okay thank you all the questions from from the virtual audience no further hands mr chair
um and we didn't ask it hours of operation you didn't ask it but i said it too quickly
ms gaston i apologize uh the proposed hours of operation are seven days per week 5 a.m
for the early morning coffee folks to 10 p.m.
Okay. Thank you.
Questions or comments from the Planning Commission?
Madison Matera, Planning Commission staff, M-A-D-I-S-O-N, M-A-T-E-R-A.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, told truth, nothing but the truth?
Please proceed.
The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the CMX-3 commercial mixed-use zoning at this location.
The appellant has demonstrated that the proposed use will not cause detrimental impact beyond what would be reasonably expected.
The Planning Commission recommends the board grant the requested special exception for takeout restaurant.
So MI-2026-001-790-302 Market Street.
I vote yes with proviso.
Use limited to ground floor and basement.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes, with proviso. Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with proviso.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes, with proviso. Hi, Owen, my vote is yes, with proviso.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
We're going to move on to the two o'clock list.
25 okay good afternoon everyone my name is bill bergman and i will be chairing this meeting
with me is our vice chair tenetta graham president mr chairman board secretary
cheryl l gaston president mr chair board members michael johns president mr chairman
tyo win president mr chairman also here is our attorney uh lynn reuter uber and our executive
Director Ian Haggerty. This hearing is being recorded and will be posted on the ZBA website.
By participating, you consent to be recorded. This is an in-person meeting with remote participation.
Whether in person or on Zoom, if you're called to speak, please state and spell your name,
then wait to be sworn in. After you've been sworn in, please state your name each time before
were testifying to enter an appearance be indicate the property address on the
zoom webinar speak with a staff member call this eba office by the close of
business tomorrow call 215-686-2429 and and provide
686-2429 and and provide your name email and the case address remote participation raise your
virtual hand when we indicate for you to speak when we do call on you please click the join as
a panelist button use the q a only for procedural questions not for the case itself if you're
joining by phone press star nine to raise your hand and star six to unmute in-person participation
if testifying get close to the mic so that all attendees and the court stenographer can hear you
no talking speaking or drinking during the hearing aggressive behavior will not be tolerated
in an emergency follow the staff instructions the main exit is the double doors at the rear
and to the left is the nearest stairwell if we evacuate please go to love park
remain there so that we can account for you so let's look at our schedule for this afternoon
number one mi 2025 006 634 3336 north 17th street um this is the second listing we do not have
exhibits um the the uh the sean ward is the attorney is that right and rusk and las cadra are
the applicants
good afternoon chair once again my name is jason hand i will be your coach for the session i see
either individual in the virtual audience today okay so this is the second listing so mi2025
006 634-3336 north 17th street i vote to dismiss michael johns my vote is to dismiss
gerald gaston my vote is to dismiss tenetta graham i've also dismissed tion my vote is to dismiss
And number two, 1018 Busselton Avenue, MI 2025-007-354, that case has been withdrawn.
Number three, 7000 Castor Avenue, MI 2025-007-533, this case has been continuing until 10, 14, at 2 p.m.
Number 5, 6129 Washington Avenue, which is MI 2026-002-082, case has been withdrawn.
And number 10, 428-58 North 2nd Street, which is MI 2026-002-133, case has been withdrawn.
Number six, number six is MI 2026-002112-4058 West Gerrard Avenue.
That case is continued until 1014 at 2 p.m.
Are there any other requests for continuances?
Mr chair I do not see any further hands okay we're going to go to our add-on list
number one mi 2026 000 810 200 north 58th street I vote yes
for a temporary variance that expires August 19, 20, 20, 29.
Mr. Chairman, sorry, excuse me.
That should be a temporary special exception.
Oh, thank you.
Temporary special exception.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes with proviso.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with proviso.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with proviso.
Iowan, my vote is yes with proviso.
We're going to go to number 15.
Number 15.
Oh, that's right.
Sorry.
There's a lot of people here.
And my 20.
24, 0, 0, 6, 7, 0, 0, 3, 801.
Old York road, I vote no.
Michael Johns, my vote is no.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no. Tanetta Graham, my vote is no. Taya Nguyen, my vote is no.
Number 15, MI 2026-004-382-2507 Almond Street. Adam Laver is the attorney. Mr. Laver,
could you just um state your name for the record because you've already been sworn adam laver
mr laver could you give us a brief overview of this particular request you have certainly mr
chairman and members of the board um blank room represents would you like me to screen share at
all or not? You could. I mean, that's fine. Thank you. Blank Rome represents L&M Real Estate
Developments, LLC, and its parent entity, the Riverwards Group. My understanding is that
virtually Larry McKnight, managing partner of the Riverwards Group, is available. And we also have
Rustin Oller of Harman Deutsch Oller architecture available should the board have any questions.
We filed a very minor request for adjustments to the previously approved application in this matter,
fully complying with zoning code requirements and not seeking any additional relief.
as you can see on the screen before you uh we saw we're seeking a reduction in parking from
65 stalls to 63 stalls that may be the most significant of uh of what we're doing here
but it does not impact again uh zoning code provisions a removal of a pico access wall
which is a utility access this is in coordination with pico i should note there's no objection to
to that removal of a common roof deck which was originally proposed removal of one roof stair
tower and removal of a previously proposed roof level elevator lobby the department of licenses
and inspections reviewed carefully the plans requested some additional information and you
can see uh at the bottom in handwriting uh that the examiner approved these changes subject to
this board's final review and noted proposed reductions only the board's notice of decision
dates back to september of 2022 unfortunately uh due to pandemic and financing issues this project
took much longer than we would have liked mr chairman and members of the board i stand here
today telling you we are ready to move forward quickly uh and safely and help uh to bring more
housing to this area and to the city it is currently a vacant parcel i'm not going to go
through that background unless the board requests so the board had previously approved uh through
revised proviso plans uh a a development and lni issued this zoning permit that's up on the screen
before you we had worked closely with the community uh and entered into a community
benefits agreement we felt that we were in a really good place as as far as that overall
development proposal went we just got the bad luck of pandemic and other issues that stalled things
so uh you can see uh in the lower left hand corner of these revised proviso plans board councils
sign off on what had previously been proposed two pages and here are the revised plans which really
don't show much this is not exciting stuff that i'm about to show you um in in the bubble you
You may be able to see, I know the type is small, the elevator overrun, removal of recess balconies. Here on this next page in the upper left hand corner, the removal of the rooftop deck. Pros and cons to all of these things, but this is what may
pros and cons to all of these things but this is what makes sense to advance this project forward
and again anything that's changed is bubbled and i previously outlined for you
we view these proposed changes as very minor and i'm sorry to take up the board's time
but we we hope that the board will allow us to move forward and if so quite frankly we are
prepared to try to do so as soon as possible all right questions from the board
questions from our attorney no questions questions or comments from the virtual or the present
audience here mr chair i do not see any hands raised hearings over thank you thank you mr
chairman members of the board number four
MI 2026-002-061, 913 North 16th Street.
Rachel Pritzker is the attorney.
I'll be right back.
Rachel on? Yep. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. As you know, you were already sworn in. Just
for the record, please state your name. Yes, Rachel Pritzker. And could you identify your
client the relationship to the property yeah my client is john pacalla of high and tight llc who
is the owner of the property okay and our vice chair has a few questions good afternoon have
you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing yes and do you
waive the reading of the refusals and stipulate to their accuracy yes all right thank you you
can share your screen and proceed with your case thank you you see my screen
yes we see it okay great so this is the refusal for 913 i'm going to zoom in um north 16th street
oh where did that just go
um this is the um application for proposed use of visitor accommodations within an existing
structure and the for the creation it's really the legalization of three accessory off street
uh parking spaces there's two interior spaces and one surface space as per plans this project
generated several refusals the property was purchased from an existing owner who had
already put had since 2017 the garages and the parking spaces on the property and the use was
already visitor accommodations from that time my client purchased it and did not change the license
over you have to renew the existing license within 10 days if you don't then you have to
get a whole new license for visitor accommodations which requires a new zoning permit all the other
conditions are just to be legalized we met with the rco and went through a lot of the zoning
archives it was evident that a lot of the existing conditions on the site had never been legalized by
the prior owner so this application seeks to legalize everything that exists on that property
none of which was caused by the current owner
i'm just gonna go down to
Show the site. So the property was listed and was listed with legal use as a Airbnb. It has
4,600 square feet and nine bedrooms. You'll see it was already built out as multiple units.
The surrounding block has almost all multifamily rentals and some PHA housing on the block as
well so that the multi-family use is not out of character um for the for the block or for
this neighborhood in general just the deed um here's a site again it's zoned rm1
As you can see, completely surrounded by multifamily or high-density commercial mixed use.
as you can see completely surrounded by multi-family or high density commercial
And it's this corner property here, zoned RM1.
An aerial view of the property.
And again, a view from the corner.
It's this corner property right here.
Another view.
Another view.
This view shows the existing garages which are on the side of the property, again they were pre-existing and so the application seeks to legalize those curb cuts and these garages that were here.
Just additional four unit buildings like this property on the same block, most of the block directly adjacent and across the street is all multifamily housing.
again the blocks are zoned RM1 more views of the garages
just wanted to show the units they're in good shape and nice large size units
Third unit.
fourth unit just want to get down to this is the the exterior spaces
um so this is where the hardship comes in and the reason that we're asking for visitor
accommodation so my client purchased the property um and it had an active rental license for the
hotel, which is visitor accommodations. It was issued back in 2020 and was only inactivated
July 1 of 2025. I think that was 30 days after my client purchased the property. The rule states
that if you bought a property like this, it already has a license. You have 10 days
to transfer the license. So he was, after purchasing the property, did not transfer
license within 10 days. In that case, what you have to do is go back through, get a new license,
but you have to get a zoning permit for visitor accommodations in order to do that.
When he purchased the property, all the financing, all the financial valuation,
the whole purpose of purchasing it was as an Airbnb. It doesn't really, and so again,
was not aware of that 10-year rule. He's not a significant landlord in the city, doesn't have
a ton of these properties, and so thought that at the 30 days when he was done purchasing property
that he could transfer this over. But the city has a rule that requires you to now go back through
the entire process. But again, the whole purchase of the property and all the financial
loans and everything was based on being able to do visitor accommodations. And again,
it's four units in an existing structure. He does have a four-unit rental license at the time.
The listings were removed off of Airbnb slowly, which is how he was even alerted that we had to
go through this process. It was not disclosed to him at the time when he purchased it.
These are the zoning notice of appeal and the refusal
on the property.
again in all the garages as well uh and rm1 you're not permitted visitor accommodations
without a variance from the zoning board of adjustment and then i'll have resting go
through our architect go through some of this but again we're legalizing the existing dimensional
considerations of the parking that's already been there and so they don't comply with the
current code of what's permitted but it was important we met with the rco that we got
everything legalized. We met with the RCO, it was United Francisville Civic Association.
We have a letter of support from them, sent out notice to all the affected neighbors,
and they provided us a letter of support for our application.
So everybody at the meeting, well, the majority of people at the meeting, all attendees to RCO Board 2, non-opposition, and then to people in general of opposition.
So everybody at the meeting, well, the majority of people at the meeting.
Also have a letter of non-opposition from Councilman Young's office.
We also have letters of support from near neighbors.
And then just want to have Rustin Oller from Harman Deutsch quickly come on and just go
through the plans.
Is Rustin in the audience?
Yes, Counselor, I should be coming back in shortly.
All right, thank you.
hello mr chairman and members of the board i could you please state your name and spell for
this photographer yeah roston oler last name o-h-l-e-r right do you swear or affirm to tell
the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do counsel i'm just gonna uh share my screen again
and uh if you can just go through the plans yeah uh rachel went through the photos of the inside
which meets the existing building code after something's approved we will of course send it
to lni for the use and occupancy along with the rental license the diagram in front of you
pertains to the parking and legalization of the existing parking stall according to the zoning
code the parking stalls are undersized but they would meet the definition of compact stalls we
had the line of sight in the m950 form completed by our traffic engineer and the plans in front of
you reviewed and approved by the streets department as part of this application
i'm happy to answer any questions that you may have
did did you do you have someone adopt your testimony yeah uh the client john the owner
should be on sure thank you
council what is the name again john pakella
all right i see them thank you jonathan pakella please raise your virtual hand and wait to be
this morning.
They'll be returning shortly.
Thank you.
can you guys hear me i can could you please state your name is spelled for the stenographer
uh my name is jonathan pekella that's j-o-n-a-t-h-a-n last name pekella p-e-k-a-l-a
do you swear or firm to tell the truth told truth nothing but truth yes council
john have you heard my testimony do you believe it to be true and accurate and do you adopt it as
your own yes thank you questions from the board
questions or comments from our attorney no questions at this time mr chairman
questions or comments from the virtual audience or there's no or the current audience
no hands mr chair planning commission madison matera planning commission staff the comprehensive
plan recommends no change to the existing rm1 residential multi-family zoning at this location
the off-street parking spaces are in existing condition for visitor accommodations the appellant
has not shown that there are unique physical conditions or circumstances of this property
that would prevent conformance with the code the planning commission recommends the board deny the
requested variance for visitor accommodations but grant the requested variance for parking
Sorry, I just want to put on record about the hardship. The property was advertised and sold based on it being visitor accommodation. It also provides, you know, an additional resource for traveling nurses and other folks that's not out of character, you know, for the existing neighborhood.
and my 2026 002 0619 13 north 16th street i vote yes temporary variance expires 8 30 8 20 30.
michael johns my vote is yes with proviso
cheryl gaston my booty chefs with proviso tenetta graham my vote is yes with proviso tyo in my vote
tanetta graham my vote is yes with proviso taya win my vote is yes with proviso so so rachel you
is yes with proviso.
have two more cases today right am i right yeah so we're going to put them together we'll go to
number eight right now um let's see here mi 2026 002 125 1208 south 27th street rachel pritzker
to state your name for the record rachel pritzker could you identify your client the relationship
to the property yeah my client is scott love and jonah fiegelman on behalf of grace ferry
27th street llc they're the owners of the property and our vice chair has a few questions sure good
afternoon um have you submitted your documents in exhibit five days in advance of this hearing
yes and do you waive the reading of the refusals and simply to the accuracy
yes all right thank you can show your screen up and see with the keys yeah and so this is 1208
right south 27th this is 1208 yep the other one we'll do is 12 18 sound right yep the only caveat
i want to make which i did talk to miss emerson about related to the refusal was the examiner
referenced the incorrect zoning code table with regard to height refusal so the refusal reference
is table 14701-2 instead of 14701-3, but Ms. Emerson's aware of it, and we did discuss we
should be okay to proceed. Just correct me if I'm wrong. Lynn's here. We're okay to proceed. Okay.
Thanks, Lynn. Okay. I'm still sharing my screen. Okay. So these cases are pretty similar. They're
literally corners of the same block um so this is 1208 south 27th street um this is um
an old refusal so originally the project proposed three units it's an existing commercial cmx2
um zoning um on on the corner of 27th street the 1200 block of 27th street
um we we actually revised this um to not do three units but to do one single family home
on this lot in particular even though it's zoned cmx2 the character of the block is residential
there's really no commercial that makes sense on this 1200 block of south 27th street we have
other major commercial corridors like grays ferry and washington avenue because of the small size
of this lot through the discussions with the community group we decided to do a single family
home as opposed to the three units even though again it was cmx2 and all we were previously
asking for was a waiver of the commercial space um but again the community wanted some homeownership
um and a little bit less density so um we decided to go with a single family home there's two uh
dimensional one use refusal one's dimensional refusal um you can't do a single family home in
cmx2 that's number one but additionally um and we because you have to provide a hundred percent the
first 30 feet of the property line is commercial which we're not providing in a single family home
and also um the roof deck access structure has to be set back an additional five feet
from the setback um you'll see as uh when logan dry goes through the plans just given the
relationship with the directly adjacent building that's there and the tightness of of where the
single family home is located this is the only place to reasonably um have the uh pilot house
that we're putting so we're proposing 46 feet it's not a total with 46 feet but given where the
pilot house is and logan will correct me if i'm wrong we're not providing that setback and it
looks higher in height although i believe the main roof line is 38 feet if not shorter than that
again this is the correction of the refusal from the planes examiner again this is just leave to
men we had originally proposed three units and then reduced it to one single family home
i'm just gonna go down to
show the site so this is the uh this is 1208 right here it's this uh corner lot here again
everything's the cmx2 at this corner and then rm1 on that block
this is just an aerial view so as you can see that 1208 is is quite small it's a little bit of a
encroachment from the directly adjacent property and so given its sort of small nature and also
the fact that it's a residential block the commercial cmx2 zoning just doesn't is not
feasible at this location to provide a commercial use in the ground floor again given sort of the
small size of it and even in the desire for some home ownership we're proposing a single family home
this is a front view um of the of the parcel as you can see sort of this overhang here with the
um of the of the parcel as you can see sort of this overhang here with the with the fence makes
with the fence
this sort of even smaller and so the dimensional relief uh requested from the uh pilot house and
the the setback just on the the roof line is makes it so that there's a viable outdoor space
uh for the property um everything else conforms with the code and again we're
not providing commercial on the ground floor here just a view from the other corner
There's a lot of similarly constructed multifamily homes and single-family homes as well, zoning posters.
This is the portions of the code. This requires the ground floor commercial.
This is the setback rules and height.
um this is just a prior uh permit uh with cmx2
um we met with the community group twice uh the last meeting was last night
um and uh we have a we have a letter from them yeah and we should have a letter of support um
from them for for both of the projects but again we addressed the primary concern was asking for
less density um and asking for a single family home which we we've done so this is their letter
of support and some additional letters of support from near neighbors if um logan dry can just be
brought on to quickly go through the plans logan
please pardon me sir they are coming back in now as a panelist
Hello?
Hi, Logan.
Could you please, have you been sworn in yet today?
Sorry, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Sure, Logan Dry, L-O-G-A-N-D-R-Y.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Counsel?
Logan, can you go through the plans on the screen, specifically addressing the roof deck and the height refusals?
Yeah, I was going to say, if you zoom in, just so everybody can kind of see, everything's dimensionally compliant with the zoning code.
If you look at the pilot house right in the middle there where I've got the revision clouds, technically we need a 10-foot setback from all street frontages.
So you can see we exceed that 10-foot setback from the front street by, you know, five or six feet.
But if you look on the side there, we're just three inches short of being in compliance with the 10-foot setback required from the side street.
And as Rachel mentioned, that's just attributed to the width of the property.
The stairs, 36 inches wide.
The wall thicknesses, you know, we can't squeeze the width of that pilot house, the three or four inches that we need to be in compliance with the code.
So that, you know, shortage of width for the property is what's triggering that pilot house to be considered part of the overall building height from a, you know, on paper standpoint.
point but you know otherwise this is like a typical new construction where the height from
grade to the top of the roof is less than 38 feet the pilot house itself is 10 feet
it's just that technicality of being four inches too wide that you know negates that additional
height refusal. Again, these are the exterior elevations. You know, we chose the traditional
brick material that's very similar to a lot of the other new development in the area,
along with some metal paneling and some wood paneling composite. You know, you'll see our
first floor is put out of the ground four feet. And then we've got plenty of windows and bays
throughout and you'll see in the floor plan how we use those to you know sort
of thoughtfully craft the single family given the rather narrow lot so again you
know you come off the 27th Street you've got your main entrance kitchen living
dining area the first floor then bedroom bath as well as some mechanical and
storage space that same staircase then takes you up to the second floor we've
got two nicely pointed bedrooms two baths as well as a full laundry room and then
Uh, and then that same staircase takes you to the third floor where again, you've got your master suite. Um, you have your, uh, bedroom in the front there, your walk-in closet in the middle, and then your, uh, en suite bath in the back. And then one more set of steps up takes you to that pilot house, which again, you know, did our best to meet the setbacks from the front rear end sides.
that same staircase takes to the third floor where again you've got your mask
But again, that four inch shortage of width is kind of working against us with the pilot house.
But that's about it on this one.
If you guys have any specific questions about the layout, as Rachel mentioned, you know, we did initially start, you know, as a multifamily.
But, you know, after hearing the community's concerns and sort of re-evaluating the design, you know, figured, you know, there's a very generous single family that can be had here that, you know, again, I think fits within the context of other singles and multis in the area and does offer that home ownership that a multifamily would not in this case.
Rachel, you want to bring the owner on?
Jonah or Scott?
Mr. Chair, Council, Scott Love will be rejoining as a panelist.
Thank you.
you guys hear me yes please state your name and spell for the stenographer
scott love s-c-o-t-t-l-o-v-e do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing
but the truth i do counsel scott have you heard my testimony today do you believe it to be true
and accurate and do you adopt it as your own i do thank you questions from the board
this is considered an attached structure correct
yes it will be attached to the neighboring on one side right so they're both considered
attached structures yes yes okay
questions from our attorney you got a question yes um the overhang from the adjoining
what's going to be the adjoining property what are we doing about that
Logan are you able to address that yes if you look closely if you want to zoom
in on the plan there Rachel the first floor plan shows it the existing
building next to us has a breezeway built into their property since there's
no alley in the back of any of these so we actually have that accommodated for
so in other words you know we're not building up against that and that
overhang is fully within their property line so that's going to be maintained on
their side for egress um and then you know when we get to the upper floors you know the the top
of that existing building would touch the uh upper floor walls of our building on that side so all
that to say that the existing breezeway that's that's on that new construction building is fully
within the neighbor's property line and is not going to be um you know blocked or affected at
by uh what we're building because legally we can't uh go over the property line so okay that that
from the way it looked it looked like it was hanging over your yeah okay all right thank you
questions from our attorney no questions at this time the comments from the virtual audience
mr chair i do not see any further hands raised planning commission
Madison Matera, Planning Commission staff. The comprehensive plan recommends a change in zoning
from the existing CMX2 commercial mixed use to RSA5 residential single family.
The appellant has not demonstrated that there are unique physical conditions or circumstances of
this property that would prevent conformance with the code in regards to maximum building height.
The proposed lack of active ground floor use is in harmony with the surrounding neighborhood and
would not be required under the recommended zoning. The Planning Commission recommends the
grant the requested variance for ground floor commercial space but deny the requested variance
for height so i'll just put on record that logan explained what the need for the additional height
is and it's given the width of the um stairwell and given the small width of the lot and we will
still be at 38 feet with a 10-foot pilot house which is per code is logan want to say something
here is that logan do you wanna yeah i mean again the only the only reason why we're getting the
yeah i mean again the only the only reason why we're getting the height refusal on this is in
height refusal on this is in an ordinary
an ordinary scenario if that pilot house we're meeting all of the required setbacks so 10 foot
from all street frontages five foot from the rear yard uh sorry five foot from the rear facade
we've got the five foot rear facade we have and exceed the 10 foot from the 27th street frontage
but on the side there because our lots just a hair over 13 and change wide we can't get the 10
foot from that side street plus the 36 inch wide stair plus the six inch thicknesses of the
wall framing for the pilot house. So we're showing right now, I think nine foot eight and seven
eights, whereas we require 10 feet. So as I say, we're about four inches shy of meeting that, but
in the spirit of the code and the actual massing of the building, it would be indistinguishable
compared to a 10 foot setback from that side street you know whereas we're at nine foot
eight and seven eight so because of that the city then counts that pilot house towards the overall
building height rather than breaking it into you know main roof and then accessory structure on top
of that thank you so mi 2026 002 125 1208 south 27th street i vote yes with proviso
her amended refusal dated july 14 2026. michael johns my vote is yes with proviso
cheryl gaston my vote is yes with proviso tanetta graham my vote is yes with proviso hi ellen my
vote is yes with proviso so rachel we're moving on to n i 20 26 0 0 2 1 2 7 12 18 south 27 street
just for the record state your name rachel pritzker and rachel is this very similar to the other one
um it it's make the presentation you think you have to make okay yeah yeah and our vice chair
sure could you identify uh the owner yeah it's the same owner scott love and jonah fiegelman
and our our vice chair has a few other questions good afternoon again um they have you submitted
your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing yes and do you waive the reading
of the refusals and stipulate to the accuracy yes all right thank you you can share your screen and
proceed with the case so this is 1216 through 1218 south 27th street um this proposes uh these are
consolidated lots that are 1561.7 square feet according to a consolidation plan similar to the
other site this is the corner this is the other side corner on that same block um this is two
lots that have been consolidated to one um and the proposals for four units um for multifamily units
Again, it's CMX2, so we're required to have 100% of the ground floor for commercial and
we're not providing 100% of ground floor commercial.
The application is a little bit different just because the project was previously approved
for commercial plus three units.
We are actually, again, similar to the other project, we are going to be asking for a variance
for the commercial but we are proposing multi-family on this site it's zoned cmx2 and it's directly
adjacent to to rm1 the it to put a single family home here doesn't make sense these are it's almost
a 16 000 sorry 1600 square foot lot as 1440 gives you four units and it's in compliance with
a lesser zoning classification, RM1. Again, the lot is 1,561.7 square feet. The waiver we're
asking for is commercial. If we were to leave the lot separated out, you'd have two commercial
spaces and two units. So it's four units. Any way you want to look at it, it's just that commercial
on these lots doesn't make any sense. So really, this is asking for relief from the commercial
requirements and to provide multifamily on that block, which is in line with both CMX2 and RM1.
No other dimensional relief is proposed at all. Zoning map of the property. Again,
it's this large lot here, which was two lots, CMX2 in a block, an area that is completely RM1.
so these are the two lots 16 and 18 again this was the one we just discussed but
sort of the other side of that block so filling in these sort of key pieces
this is the lot here
another view
Character of the neighborhood, multifamily, brick, mix of two-story, three-story, but
character of the neighborhood multifamily
Thank you.
most of the corners are three-story or four-story, especially the new structures.
Down the smaller side street, again, some mix of architecture here.
It's all the way to the rear.
Zoning posters.
CMX2 requires 480 of lot area per dwelling unit.
Since they're consolidated, I think it is a little bit more square footage.
And then again, CMX2 requires 100% of the front first 30 feet of the property line to
be commercial.
This is the prior permit that was obtained in October.
that permits multifamily with the commercial on the ground floor.
Three dwelling units plus a vacant commercial space.
Commercial space is just not viable here.
The owners had met with a couple brokers and realtors
and just trying to find a commercial tenant
that's willing to put something in this location
where there's really not enough attractiveness towards it,
But foot traffic and where you'd rather be on Washington Avenue or Gray's Ferry or other
commercial corridors proved to have ground floor commercial challenging on this residential
block.
We went with the RCO on this project, same RCO as before.
The meeting we had last night was mostly to go through the single family home.
That project was more of the issue for them.
And we have a letter of support, as mentioned, sent the required mailers, and this is their
letter of support, which encompass both 1208 and 1216-18 in support of this project.
Again, some letters of support as well from neighbors.
mostly multi-family that's as you can see the apartment numbers
and then just uh we can have logan just again go through
Um, these plans Logan, Logan, they'll be coming back as the panel.
Let's call on Mr. Thank you. Thank you.
Understood. Hi, Logan. You've already been sworn just for the record. State your name.
Sure. Logan drive. Council.
Logan, can you go through the zoning plans on the screen?
So, you know, again, the only thing of note here is, you know, the original building was designed as a three-unit with commercial space.
You know, dimensionally, we kept the envelope the same.
You know, everything's compliant in terms of the height, the building coverage.
The pilot house is located well within its permitted setbacks, so no sort of dimensional variances here.
but um this will be submitted to the city that you can just sort of see shows the building
massing the extent of the roof deck pilot house a couple window bays that we have and then the rear
yard um could you show that as you're talking is that not on the screen yes okay go ahead uh yeah
and then uh these are the elevations which again there's a there's a color rendering in this one
too that I think might be at the very end but important things to point out here is just the
similar use of materiality primarily brick again a mix of composite wood and some metal paneling
same thing the buildings pulled out of the ground four feet of note and again it'll be
more clearly depicted I think on the color rendering and the floor plans but you know
we gave uh dedicated balconies to uh the upper units as well sort of a feature on the corner of
the building um again the height within the 38 feet that's permitted um you can go to the floor
plans next rachel um so here um just to sort of familiarize you can you zoom can you can you zoom
out oh there you go better i was going to ask you to zoom out a little bit more perfect so so just
to kind of give everybody a sense the the buildings comprised of two three-bedroom units and
two one-bedroom units ranging in size from 970 square feet to uh 1183 square feet um so the
uh 1183 square feet um so to sort of walk you through the first two units the plan in the
middle there's the first floor so um unit a you enter right in off of 27th street there
we've got a one bedroom one bath uh bi-level unit with the basement uh again main level's
got kitchen living and dining as well as a bedroom and bath and then in the basement we've got some
bathroom uh mechanical and then a den flex space we've also got some house mechanical down there
too um take you back up to the first floor to get to unit b which is in the back of the first floor
that has its own dedicated entrance off of the side street there off of ingram so you'd walk in
off of ingram street very similar to the front unit there you've got your living kitchen bedroom
bathroom on the first floor that is then by level with the basement where we've got a
den space as well as bathroom and some laundry mechanical and storage the other thing i'd point
out kind of hopping back up to the first floor there is that we do have dedicated trash enclosures
for everyone to use in the back there so we have you know a pretty big space for everybody to store
their trash in a fenced enclosure within that rear yard until trash day comes. In terms of
getting to the upstairs units, if we go back to 27th Street there on the first floor, the door
all the way over to the right bottom corner of the screen there, takes you up a common staircase,
you land there then on the second floor, unit C, that's over a thousand square feet. We've got
That's designed as a three-bedroom, three-bath unit with terrace.
So just to sort of orient yourself, the bottom of the plan there, we've got a bedroom and
bathroom.
We've also got that terrace there on the corner that's open to both street frontages, so a
pretty sizable seven-by-seven outdoor-covered terrace area.
In the middle of the plan, you've got your living and kitchen area, as well as mechanical
and laundry.
towards the back of the plan then you've got two additional bedrooms again 12 by 10 12 by 11
they each have their own bathroom their own closets so that whole second floor is a three
bedroom three bath flat with terrace if you go back to that staircase in the middle of the plan
take you up to the third floor the third floor is is basically an identical version of what the
second floor was so you've got again another three bedroom three bath flat exact same layout
the only difference here is this unit specifically gets access to the roof deck only so the staircase
then stops from being common and then takes you privately up to you know the roof deck that's
just for that top floor unit and then I think the last page is the color rendering so again
Again, you know, what we wanted to do is kind of open up the corner, massing a little bit on the upper floors by doing the terraces there.
And then you can see the use of, you know, the traditional red brick to kind of match a lot of the other red brick in the area.
And then again, much like the other project, use of composite wood paneling and metal paneling on the bays and the infill between the windows.
Again, any questions you guys have, feel free.
but this is this is what we arrived at again keeping in mind that originally we had three
units in a commercial space here you know it just didn't make sense you know from a rental
standpoint with the commercial spaces so we pivoted to the multifamily but I think again
just in my opinion the size of the units here you know compared to the the building footprint
you know I don't I don't feel like we're necessarily squeezing they're all pretty
generously sized in my opinion at least you know 900 square feet not for all the
unit sizes bring your client on to have the testimony adopted then we'll open
up the questions yep it's Scott love is still on they're coming back in as a
panelist now thank you
hello hi scott just for the you've already been sworn just for the record
state your name scott love um council scott have you heard my
testimony today do you believe it to be true and accurate and do you adopt it as
your own yes thank you questions from the board yes can you just plan again yes
I don't mean to zoom in better thank you Rachel yep
better thank you rachel yep
i have no questions all the questions so just just appreciate the fact that you raised the basement
uh height out of the out of grade at four feet is much better than a lot that i've seen
decently laid out building works on the corner i guess the only question that i have is why the
only only the third floor unit has access to the the uh roof deck and not the second and third
floor unit since the stair since they have access to that same stair it's only yeah it's it's sort
of twofold one one primarily is the building code would kick that then into a technically a fourth
story above grade so the city would require us to put in a second egress stair that would
probably end up cutting out a good chunk of the layouts on the floors below um that's the primary
reason but you know even if that weren't the case a lot of times with the rcos we tend to see them
actually wanting just private roof decks because i think the idea is if it's multiple units that
have access to it then the likelihood of a party is heightened but it's primarily the second means
of egress but you know the other point of it is just usually the rcos typically like a private
but and we had talked about with the rco and the owner um if there was ever a desire to condo the
building then having the layout like this makes more sense um from a condo perspective as well
you don't want to have a shared roof deck if the intention is to is to condo the project and when
we talked with the rco um you know about some of the homeownership pieces that we didn't want to
leave it uh as an impossibility um to do condos if down the line that the owners you know thought
that they that made sense for for the market so that was the other consideration yeah gotcha
all the questions not a question more of a comment but um i think because this is a corner unit there
was an opportunity to get more light into that basement i do appreciate the way that you guys
attempted to expand the uh egress wells but with the mechanical and the like you could flop
the home gin den with the mechanical storage and bath and that gives you a whole wall where you
could potentially get more light down there to make it more livable yeah i think um logan i think
that's something that you and scott can look at um you know for building code uh when we
Yeah, one of the things that we do have to keep in mind is we only have a six-foot wide sidewalk, so a lot of times the streets department, when they only give us 25% of that width to encroach upon, they will allow stairs as the exception to that, but the egress wells are sort of hit or miss, and we can certainly try to put a couple more in if we can get it by streets,
but i know usually they're pretty strict about the 25 encroachment at least you know with the
exception being staircases but you know it's definitely something to look into i think
yeah we'll we'll definitely look at that uh with you logan after this because i'd love to have more
light down there too our attorney and they could be they could be windows they don't have to be
egress wells because you've already got your response no questions at this time
or comments from the virtual audience or the audience here
no hands chair planning madison matera planning commission staff the comprehensive plan recommends
a change in zoning at this location from the existing cmx2 commercial mixed use to rsa5
residential single family under the cmx2 zoning based on the size of the lot they would be
permitted three units by right and they are requesting four there are no unique physical
conditions or circumstances of this property that would prevent conformance with the zoning code for
unit count the proposed lack of active ground floor use is in harmony with the surrounding
neighborhood and would not be required under the recommended zoning the planning commission
recommends the board grant the requested variance for ground for commercial use but deny the request
variance for four dwelling units yeah sorry just to just a comment so i appreciate that the plan
as to maybe remap it to rsa5 but it's cmx2 as of right now and so um with the just ground floor
being commercial it's permitted four units although one would be commercial and three
multi-family above so just adding an additional just swapping the residential for the commercial
is the least modification of the code possible so mi2026 002 127 12 18 south 27th street i vote yes
michael johns my vote is yes
Michael Johns, my vote is yes.
cheryl gaston
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.
Taya Nguyen, my vote is yes.
Thank you, counsel.
Thank you.
Chair, excuse me, this is the court reporter, I apologize.
Did I hear Ms. Gaston's vote correctly?
Could she repeat it?
Yes, my vote is yes.
Thank you.
Thank you.
okay all right well we can we still have we still have four right she wants to run out just do a
little something so okay so and knowing her she'll run right back in anyway so it doesn't matter
right so MI 2026 002 123 2275 Bridge Street Brandon Safran is the attorney
Attorney Saverin will be rejoining as a panel shortly good afternoon members of the board nice
seeing you Brandon could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer nice seeing
you too, Mr. Chairman. Brandon Saverin, B-R-A-N-D-O-N, S as in Sam, A, V as in Victor, R-A-N
as in Nancy. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do. Brandon, could you identify your client, the relationship to this property?
Yes. My client is Building 39 LLC, who is the owner of the condo unit within
Frankfurt Arsenal Business Park that is the subject of this application.
And you have letters of support from Wissahaden Civic, Councilmember Driscoll,
and the Arsenal Condominium Association. Our Vice Chair has a few questions.
Good afternoon. Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing?
good afternoon madam vice chair yes i did and do you waive the reading of the referral
and stipulate to its accuracy yes i do all right thank you can show your screen and proceed with
your case okay thank you
so members of the board I am here on behalf of the owner of a certain building known as building 39
within the Frankfurt Arsenal Business Park.
I'll start with Exhibit 1, which is the Notice of Referral.
This application asks for a special exception to approve an event assembly facility
that occupies a portion of this fairly large building.
The other uses which occupy the other half, approximately, of the building
are warehouse commissaries and catering services uses translation essentially the other half of
the building is a commercial kitchen and the board already saw this application in 2020 so
what you'll notice here is that only the event assembly facility is not a buy right use that's
That's why the other uses are only mentioned up here, but they're not listed as referrals.
The buy right uses were originally permitted in 2019, and the event facility was permitted
by this board in 2020.
But what happened thereafter is that my client pulled a building permit, proceeded to renovate
the building under that building permit, completed the work, and then, I think because of some chaos
caused by COVID-19, the L&I inspector did not close that building permit. We then understand
the L&I inspector left the city's employment, so that building permit was left hanging open,
even though the work was done, and these businesses have now been up and running for five years,
But recently, Elle and I noticed that our building permit was never closed and it issued
a violation and it expired our zoning.
So we had to kind of start from scratch.
So that's why we're here.
It's to get use approvals for these uses again.
And I will present the whole case to you.
I'm not just going to hang my hat on the fact that the board saw it in 2020, since many
The board saw it in 2020, since many of you were not here in 2020, but I just wanted to give you that context.
of you were not here in 2020.
And feel free to ask me any questions about that now or later.
Exhibit 2 is a memo of law which identifies why we believe our application satisfies the code's requirements for a special exception.
In the highlighted text here, I basically run through exactly what I just told you.
So I won't repeat it, but this is also available in writing if you need to review that history.
Exhibit 3, just skip ahead a little bit.
Here we go.
Exhibit 3 is permits to provide evidence of what I just talked about.
so here in 2020 is the zoning permit that uh authorized our uses you'll see here assembly
and entertainment and commissaries and catering services um this was obtained by my colleague
meredith furliger uh back then um since 2020 assembly and entertainment has been broken down
into new subtypes so we are now uh an event assembly facility rather than assembly and
entertainment but same use uh as was sort of planned for back then is exactly what we're doing
now it's basically a banquet hall it's where people have weddings and events of that nature
no public ticketed events um the creation of the event assembly facility category was partially to
distinguish facilities like ours that are not open to the public and do not have you know ticketed
events. And then just continuing here, here's the notice of referral from back then to just to show
you that this went through the ZBA. Here is the notice of decision showing that the ZBA said yes.
Here is a record of our building permit. I have the floor plans under which our work was performed,
so you'll kind of see what this building permit was issued on. But in any event,
um l and i recently expired this permit as is highlighted here so we're going to reobtain a
building permit l and i is going to look at our floor plans again and compare it to the work that
was completed so everything will be um you know according to code and per inspection
here's the zoning map at exhibit four just to show you that uh the entire frankfurt arsenal
business park is considered one parcel by the various city agencies and it's zoned irmx
It is sort of walled off from surrounding residential neighborhoods by Tacony Street and I-95, so there's really no impact on residents from what we're doing.
And then the business park is sort of chopped up into land condominium units.
So my client, Building 39 LLC, which is really a business venture of the Wiser family, owns Building 39, which is one of the two buildings highlighted in yellow here.
It also owns Building 38, which I think is the other building highlighted in yellow, but only Building 39 is before you today.
And you'll also see here that there's a parking lot that the clients and customers of Building 39 have use of.
it's very easy to get to you pull into the arsenal right here off of taconi street this is the main
gate and our parking lot really is the first thing you stumble across so it's very easy to get to
just some aerials of the subject building here where the yellow arrows are
and then I have some photos of our zoning posters not for the posters themselves but just to give
you a street level perspective of the building so here it is as seen from Tacony Street
the next couple of photos are from Bridge Street which is really nowhere near the building but we
required to put posters up there too. This is the floor plan. I do have the architect I believe on
the line if you have any questions but as I mentioned this was already reviewed and approved
by L&I for a building permit back in 2020. We're going to submit it again and essentially the
building is sort of divided in two as I mentioned. So there's the open event space here on the left
to the southwestern side and on the right to the northeast you have the back of house space which
consists of a commercial kitchen various storage spaces and bathrooms
exhibit eight oh pardon me that's my cell phone i'm so sorry let me mute that
i have to tell my wife i'll talk to her after so exhibit eight here has a couple photos of the
Exhibit 8 here has a couple photos of the space in use.
space in use so you have
So you have sort of this garage door thing going on on the left side, which again is the event area.
So during nice weather, you can have weddings and other events that sort of flow in and out.
The right side there is the back of house space that I mentioned.
And this is the interior of the event space getting ready for an event.
and the back of house space would be behind that wall.
The Wisers maintain different websites for the event space and for the kitchen.
And I will explain why the kitchen has its own website in a moment,
but I'll start with the event space.
Just we'll flip through this really quickly at Exhibit 9.
Just to show you this is a proper business.
It's been up and running for years now.
It provides rentals of the different equipment that you might need to throw a wedding here or another event.
Just some other photos of the space in use.
It talks about the different amenities that you can rent.
Exhibit 10 is our various letters of support.
The first one, just because the chairman didn't mention this one, is unique to our application because this is a condominium association.
So this is from the association itself, evidencing that there's no internal objection to our continuation of these uses that have now been up and running for years.
I think this is signed by the president of the association, Mr. Hankin.
we have letters of support from the only affected RCO other than the coordinating RCO which is
Wissenoming Civic we have a letter of support from Councilman Driscoll we have a letter of support
from BCAA who is the coordinating RCO their meeting summary will tell you that only one
member of the public came out to the meeting we did mail a lot of surrounding properties the
required mailing it just as i showed you is not a residential area so it was not exactly a surprise
to us that this didn't generate a ton of public interest we we do have this letter also from a
woman who happens to own two other buildings in the arsenal and very flattering i'll just
read you this one paragraph she's very supportive of what's been going on on our property she says
quote, I am as hardcore a historic preservationist as you're going to find, and I have been awed by what has been done with that building to preserve both its fabric and its spirit and service of entirely new functions, end quote.
Very nice to sort of get something like this out of the blue.
Exhibit 11 is an article by WHYY that I included just to sort of talk about the kitchen portion of the building.
Even though that's not before you today, all I wanted to mention about it is this is a kitchen that provides a function.
When there are no events in the event space, this is used as a co-working space.
It's sort of like a WeWork for chefs.
So if you owned a food truck or if you provided catering to other venues outside of the arsenal, you can be a member of this co-working kitchen to provide you a space to store your goods, to cook, and to collaborate with other chefs.
It's a really unique, sort of fabulous place to give people who are in this industry, which can be grinding and isolating, sort of a sense of belonging.
I think that this picture is of the Building 38 Kitchen, which is also a part of this business.
So just want to be clear on that for the record.
But in the text here, people are talking about belonging to Culinary Collective, which is the name of the business, and using both the kitchens in Building 39, this building, and Building 38.
And you just have some pictures of some of the members here.
I think that that is it.
When I get on.
Brandon, is this a 20-year-old business?
It's not 20 years old.
I believe about five, Mr. Chairman.
and that is the conclusion by the way all right all right why don't you bring your client sure
sure um craig weiser could you raise your virtual hand
craig weiser will be rejoining as a panelist thank you
Thank you.
i am hi boys could you hi how are you could you please state your name and spell for this
doctor my name is craig weiser c-r-a-i-g-w-e-i-z-e-r you swear or affirm to tell the truth
told truth nothing but the truth i do also thank you uh craig uh are you authorized to speak on
behalf of building 39 llc i am okay did you hear my testimony in your case this afternoon i did
was it true and accurate to the best of your knowledge was true and extremely accurate okay
and would you therefore adopt my testimony on behalf of the llc as if it had been your own
I do. Okay. Thank you. Questions from the board.
Questions from our attorney. Yes. Hi, Lynn Riedel, Huber board counsel. I just wanted to clarify
on your deed. I believe the property that you're asking for the variance on is unit 39,
but you've referred to it as building 39. Yes, that would be the same thing. It is,
it is officially known as unit 39 by the city building 39 is sort of the doing business as name
okay i just want to make sure thank you yeah questions or comments from the virtual audience
i do not see any hands mr chair planning addison matera planning commission staff the
comprehensive plan recommends no change from the existing irmx industrial residential mixed
use zoning at this location this property was rezoned in 2015 according to recommendations
in the north delaware district plan the opponent has demonstrated that the proposed use will not
cause detrimental impacts beyond what would be reasonably expected the planning commission
recommends the board grant the requested special exception for event assembly facility
am i 20 26 002 123 123 2275 bridge street i vote yes with proviso use limited to unit 39
michael johns my vote is yes with proviso
cheryl gaston my vote is yes with proviso tenetta graham my vote is yes with proviso
Taya Nguyen, my vote is yes, supervisor.
Thank you, counsel.
Thank you.
All right.
Thank you, Lord.
Number 11, MI 2026-002-137-2814 Master Street.
Al Nachamson is the attorney.
So, Nachamson, I believe you were sworn this morning at one point.
Am I right?
Right. And could you just state your name and spell it for the stenographer?
Alan Nockamson, A-L-A-N, last name Nockamson, N-O-C-H-U-M-S-O-N.
Could you identify your client, the relationship to the property?
Yeah, I actually have two clients here. I have Stelios Tisonontides, that's a tongue twister, who is representing Majesty Beauty.
And I also have Sandra Clark, who's representing the bakery. Sofa Lena. All right. I see there. You have letter of support from brewery town. That's correct. And non opposition from council member young. Yes. That's our vice chair has just a few questions. Thank you. Yep. Good afternoon. Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing? Yes, we have. And do you waive the reading of the refusals and stipulate to the accurate? I do. All right. Thank you.
You can see your screen and proceed.
So the board saw this project in 2019.
They approved for this RSA five property corner property at at the corners of master new Kirk,
a commercial commercial on the ground floor and two residential units above as part of
their approval um it just said vacant commercial space i think this has changed a little bit now
you can have vacant commercial space and designate it as you know for instance cmx2 and if we would
have done that we wouldn't be here today so we're just doing some cleanup here um we have 14 exhibits
here at the conclusion my presentation i would ask that stellios and or sandra adopt my testimony
at their own uh rsa5 property um so my client's bakery is more of a catering bakery there's no
like it's not a retail component she started doing it from her home she's she's doing well um there
she started doing it from her home she's she's doing well um there while there's cooking the
premises there's no venting she has a ventless stove there um and you know as far as the hair
salon again small operation neighborhood operation and um the community has much approval for it
letter of support you can see it's a letter of support from the brewery town chargewood
Community Civic Association referencing the small custom bakery and the hair
salon operations which will be side-by-side hopefully property history
I just want to give you the use permit which included the approvals from this
zoning board and stated vacant space on first floor use registration permit
required prior to occupancy and that's why we're here today much support in the
community for this for these businesses to open up a little bit about sofa lena again sandra
has started out in her own kitchen her operations got bigger nerve bigger but it's still just her
and her hours of operations from nine to four monday through friday and then saturdays nine
to one she's the only employee there her menu includes cookies cakes cake pops cookie bouquets
cupcakes. She's SafeServe certified. The space has already been preliminarily approved by the
health department. We have those approvals. And the oven is electric. It does not require
ventilation. It doesn't produce smoke, grease, vapors, or steam. It's an MVP group access
AX-513. It's 22 inches wide. This is some of her product that she has.
again some approvals preliminary approvals uh from from the city
maps of the area it's pretty straightforward in that um we are rsa5 but you know again this
has been approved it's baking commercial space from the board photographs this is what the
outside looks like it's very nice i mean my clients didn't do this but the owner did do that
um this um is the entry point for the commercial uh i guess catering space uh you know she doesn't
expect to have any um residents any customers come in like to just buy cookies for instance
by the way this is the space for the hair salon and then but this is what the building looked like
before the renovation so the owner did a great job and you know um definitely retrofitted the
space for those two commercial spaces and hoping for these commercial businesses to
open up in Brewery Town.
These are the hearing notice postings.
This is New Kirk to the right of the property, to the left of the property, Master Street
to the right of the property, to the left of the property.
Interior photos.
While the apartments are not included as part of the presentation, I just wanted to show
you how much you know how nice this building is how much the owner did to the building
we should applaud that from a variant standpoint that someone actually effectuated what they
promised to do this is so for lena's space it's really small uh her space is i think 300 square
feet and the salon is only 350 square feet but this is the oven you can see here
and different interior photos we did some simple simple floor plans so you can see it
from that another oven in the back there i think that's a refrigerator but okay yeah
but we can ask her no i'm fine uh and then these this is the the hair salon again just having the
furniture in there but you know again if you look at it this is the corner that you saw
a quintessential looking CMX property, hair salon, a couple of stations here, three stations it looks
like, a little waiting area, reception area, half bath. This is the entryway for the bakery.
I believe that the oven's right here. There's a bath here and there's a little, there's prep
prep stations, sink, and I believe this is the refrigerator.
We met with the community on July 16th at 6.30 p.m.
These are the addresses we sent it to, proof of mailing to those addresses, our application
for zoning variance, and then finally, well, the deed to the property showing that Farm
Opkin and company own it, and then the certificate of tax clearance.
um i would ask that uh sandra and uh stellios virtually raise their hand and they could be
sworn in thank you mr chairman can i ask a question before we start that who do you represent uh we
Who do you represent? We represent the the occupative potential occupants. Okay, we don't have any leases. All we have is the deed you provided, who is the owner. So we're going to maybe have to hold this till we get the leases. Okay, the two individuals, because I just double checked here because when you said names, I didn't recognize and I just checked. It's the lease that you provided that we for far far far.
We represent the ocular.
F-A-R-M-A-K-O-N.
Indeed, you have.
No leases were provided.
I think we do have some leases.
I think that this process is taking a little bit longer.
One of the leases, I think we passed that point, but I can give you the leases.
I mean, we can discuss about the whole thing here, but go forward.
But just so you know…
We'll get everything done and then we'll figure it out.
Got you.
So why don't we bring one of them on?
I'll be coming back
shortly, Mr. Chair.
i think there's a laurie who's virtually raising her hand yes hi could you please good morning
i mean good afternoon i'm sorry it's um could you please state your name and spell it for the
stenographer my name is sandra clark it's uh s-a-n-d-r-a-c-l-a-r-k two different people
came on yeah one of them's representing the hair salon and the other one okay all right okay so
miss clark i'll go with you first do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing
but the truth yes counsel uh sandra you heard everything i had to state about your zoning
matter today is that correct correct yes and what i stated was that true and correct yes
and do you adopt it as your own testimony yes thank you all right could you uh uh
laurie could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
could you spell it please l-a-u-r-i-e last name she has in term s-i-n-o-n-t-i-g-e-s
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
yes i do cancel uh lori again you also heard everything i had to state today about this
zoning matter is that correct yes and when i stated was it true and correct
yes and do you adopt as your own testimony yes thank you questions from the board
yes what are the hours of operation for each business yeah so for the bakery it's nine to
four monday through friday and then nine to one on saturdays for the hair salon it's sunday and
monday by appointment and then tuesday uh through friday it's ten to five and then saturday uh
it's nine to three thank you other questions i'm sorry was there a floor plan that i missed oh
i can read yes i'll put it
and again it's what we prepared we're by way no we're not architects we just try to like
keep it simple and cost effective for the clients it's it's it's okay i just yeah
And so here, if you remember, we're at the corner of Newkirk and Master Street, so it's
a corner property right here, and this is where the hair salon, you come in.
There's a couple of stations here, reception area, a little sitting area for people who
are waiting, and a half bath.
And then if you come around here, if you remember, there's an entryway back here.
This is for the bakery.
come in. Well, a couple of prep stations. There's a half bath here. I believe this is where the
stove is. Sandra, am I right about that? The oven is actually against the wall where the
stairs are. Oh, right here. Okay. Gotcha. And then I think the chairman asked a question. There
was this other secondary appliance. Is that the refrigerator? The big one in the corner,
that's the fridge yes gotcha and then there's a little prep area here and then a little sink
yeah correct and this is all commercial equipment correct it's ventless it's just like sandra can
you explain the appliance no no no that's not my question my question is this is all commercial
about my question my question is this is all commercial equipment that's right in terms of it
is yes refrigerator and the stove and how is it ventless so can you uh sandra do you mind explaining
sure sure i'm talking with ellen i um it can be ventless if i don't have a stovetop it's just an
oven so i'm not dealing with grease i'm not dealing with fumes i'm not dealing with um
needing an outlet for vapors it's just a it's just a two-door oven so with that um i get um
i can stay away from ventilation it's a so you're okay so you're all right it it's just an oven it's
not a stovetop so i'm not going to be dealing with any fumes any mixing it's just a complete oven so
with the oven, you do get approval. Ellen and I said you won't need ventilation based on that,
just based on an oven. It is a two-door closure. Ventilation is not needed, so I didn't need to
get approval for that. Okay, interesting. So, I'm sorry, so you're a bakery and you're going to be
baking goods and you're using what kind of equipment is this is this what kind of oven is
this sure um it's it's just a simple um two shelf oven I think you saw the picture of it so it is a
commercial oven it has been approved by the city that it is indeed a commercial oven oh yep there
it is right there it's on the top the microwave is underneath but on the top that's all my oven
is it's just um it has two um two levels inside so one for each pan and and that's it and then if
you look i have to the left i have a commercial mixer to my right is where the oven i mean the
um the refrigerator is that big box you saw and then my fridge and those are all my appliances
that's it yep there's the there's the refrigerator right there and my sink and and that's it that's
all the um appliances that i have yeah and so what kind of what kind of output are we talking
about hearing what what what kind of variety of goods that you so my main that i have done i um
have worked for a catering company previously so um i do have a lot of people it's uh personalized
sugar cookies so for events like birthdays um weddings engagement parties so if you want
based on your theme i will make cookies i will make cakes cupcakes um there are cake pops they
are push cakes so um stuff personalized for um parties and different events that need themes
and they're personalized based on the events that and theme that they want
i have a picture of it and in that in that oh and you're gonna you're gonna be able to
yes produce enough uh yeah yeah so be profitable shall we say yeah so i was gonna say she's not
a bakery that you would be able to go into and just go grab cookies or a cake or something like
that if the proposed use is commissary and catering services so she does special events
why don't you show her the photos of the cake yeah i was trying to find it i don't know where
i couldn't remember where it was animals yeah exactly you had an elmo i think elmo cookie
monster she started out in her kitchen and she just needed more space um again i don't think
you know i i think that you know she's hoping to grow and if she grows she's gonna have to
you know find another space but she just needed i'm trying to find out where i put it i know i
saw it i saw it too yeah i mean that's what i'm saying it's only like three cakes i'm just trying
to figure out oh wait here it is there you go there you go look at that yeah so i don't think
you're going to have like a long line out the door that's not her business model it's not open
to the general public it's more about where you get word of mouth sandra is it like instagram
things like that how do you how do you get business i have instagram i have facebook hopefully um
clients that have have used me before or tasted my my desserts will will hopefully join me on this
adventure and spread the word as well okay yeah these aren't big spaces either the the two spaces
each one's 350 square feet another is 300 square feet well the hair salon and that you know that's
That's personal services and you catch them.
But if you were talking about doing, even if this is for some sort of events and things, I mean, that's an awfully small.
some sort of events and things i mean that's an awfully small oven well she's not having events
there she's just cooking for events i know what i mean is if she's providing this stuff for an event
these are that's an awfully small oven it seems to me not that i'm a baker but it's an awfully
small oven to be producing these kind of things that's that's my comment no i hear you i have a
question about deliveries yeah are they going to be primarily on the new kirk street side through
the rear entrance where the bakery is uh sandra how do you i i think the product is not big enough
that you're talking about deliveries how do you mean the people have to pick up i mean i mean oh
i thought you made deliveries in the sense of the people i mean yeah even amazon like i'm just
wondering like for the per for the materials and supplies she needs to do this as well as the
customers is the primary pickup going to be on new kirk street yeah well i are off the new kirk
street side it would be the new kirk street side but in terms of just getting your baking supplies
like do you anticipate actually having deliveries or do you plan to just bring it in yourself
first first question for now it's going to be myself picking up and and bringing myself in i
this is why i would like it i know it's a small space but i'm not a big you know this is my first
adventure of doing this so right now it's going to be myself hopefully as time grows and it picks
up we could again reassess the delivery but right now it's going to be me bringing and handling and
everything all right and in terms of customers how do you anticipate them picking up their orders
or it will be a pickup just like any other bakery you would you know come pick come pick them up um
i will be mostly working during the week getting all the um desserts and everything ready a lot of
events happen on fridays saturdays and sundays so um that's why i'm open a half day on saturday for
them to have a time to come pick up the stuff so during the week it'll be mostly baking cooking
getting everything ready for when you know people have their events so they could come and pick them
up and they'll be ready for them for friday saturday any other questions the only other
question i had was was the space um already split into two commercial spaces um and if not were
permits pulled to divide the yeah i don't know the answer to and if not would you be opposed to co
well i think either one would wouldn't you need a co for a business of any sort that's true
yes oh right so i think that we would have no opposition
yeah well we're not going to vote right um just so you know on your paperwork you've indicated
that you represent the owner and everything okay gotcha well that may just been uh yeah just let
you know okay all right are we gonna are you gonna so you bring the owner on or do you just
that's enough i know i think there's two occupants all right um how long will we talk i mean i think
we can just get the leases i just want to make sure i know there was one of the leases may have
left that's why i didn't bring either why don't we give it two weeks is that right i think we get
can we try one week because they want to open up and well we'll see if we can do it next week yeah
we can we'll see and we might need to clarify who you're actually representing
okay okay all right questions come on you want to come up yeah come on come on
you get to get to this year
hi i'm ellen at the end please say your name and spell put a stenographer ellen e-l-l-y-n
a-l-t-h-u-n-a-y-a-n do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but
the truth yes i do um are you a neighbor we are directly connected to this building on master
street 28 so you're okay please proceed um we first i got my pastry arts degree in 2001 what's
I got my pastry arts degree in 2001. So I understand the ovens that she's using. Yes,
they are ventless, but yes, they still, they still emit smell and baking and all of that.
And that's right on our property. It's right next to us. The hair salon, it's fine. She are,
you know, the hair salon and her clients take up our park, you know, take up parking during the day.
It's been fine. Her music is loud, comes right through our house. Some of the chemical smells
come through but we haven't said anything because she's out by she's out early her clients are now to
but we haven't said anything because she's out by she's out early her clients aren't out of control
but you can hear it but conversations verbatim through our wall so you're okay with her chemicals
and well no not really but we weren't trying to make an issue out okay we just don't because we
moved here two years ago yeah and i just want to put this in we're my husband i own a full
service moving business and for five years we broke our backs to be able to come in and buy this house
and to be able to be part of this community and rehab it yeah the people who own this building
they aren't in our community and my husband when we first moved here was nice enough with steleos
to go over and fix electric breakers that have broken water and all of that and then a little
bit later on he had the audacity to send us a text to say you guys should be good citizens so
we can all get along and now they want to put a kitchen not not these two people yeah and they're
not even here they're not part of our community we're the one i'm sorry and and this is this
putting this in who knows what it could turn into it depreciates our property value of breaking our
backs and our retirement fund so he's tried they're trying to squeeze every penny out of it
without being back in our neighborhood and being on our streets and taking care of our people we
don't have rat problems we don't mouse issues where we are and we don't want to smell it we
have our windows open all day we don't want to smell it we have a homeless shelter caddy corner
to them with kids who play out in the streets all the time it's for women and children and then the
parking on on master between dover and newkirk they just put up signs on both sides saying don't
park here to the corner we lost two more places right and our streets aren't permitted all of the
streets around us are permitted so we have cars that are left there for days or weeks so we just
would like to just we love our neighbor we like this the peace and not have more alan do you have
a question no i'll wait until everyone testifies i'll have some comments who else wants a test
I could you please
Could you please state your name and spell first
Yes sir
My name is Waleed Akhenayan
W-A-L-E-E-D
Akhenayan
A-L-T-H-U-N-A-Y-A-N
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth
The whole truth is nothing
Yes I do
And you live at the same location
That's my wife. We live in 2018-16.
Give me your comments.
I think with a commercial kitchen, it's like it's going to, it may turn into a bigger issue afterwards because there is no plans for waste collection because it's commercial now.
But they don't have any plans for commercial pickup for the waste.
And adding food in the backyard would eventually add, like bring rodents into the neighborhood.
and we just kind of start cleaning up the neighborhood and cleaning up around and we
started with working with the neighborhood from people on new curve and dover to clean up and
after the city just came in and finally cleaned up we have not had any issues and we would like
not to have that brought on after the food and um with the waste coming at us and unfortunately
it's very small like the plan unfortunately does not really give uh the visual um of how the how
big the room is it's very small and unfortunately the drywall and the rooms it's been the walls
between us is very thin so the smell we just absorb very fast okay thank you very much sir
you want to testify please come up hi sir could you please when you sit down state your name is
spelled for the sonogram hi everybody i'm carlin small uh name spelled k-a-r-l-y-n last name s
m as in mary a l l right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth told truth nothing but the truth
yes sir are you a neighbor yes i am please proceed yes so i live at uh 2818 westmaster street um
and i think after hearing a little bit more information about what's being built um i just
have questions i'm still undecided but still wanted to give my opinion because i am a next-door
neighbor sure um can i ask direct questions about the project um it i have no that okay yeah he he
has no problem you can ask questions my my main question is is this a business that has been going
on already and you just want to adventing or is this is this are we moving in the business into
the space because it's unclear to me well for the bakery and i'll defer to sandra here my understanding
she wants to move into this space is that correct correct sandra yes yeah i i haven't started baking
it i i i'm new to that development i'm new to that area so um i haven't anything there yet
okay cool so um i mean for me i came in kind of a little bit more on the side of i don't want a
for me i came in kind of a little bit more on the side of i don't want a bakery next door
a bakery.
because the area is relatively residential um i'm a little bit i'm i'm a little bit stuck between a
rock and a hard place here um i think if there's a way to address what my neighbors ellen waleed
said um that would be super helpful in like moving this along but i think my really big
concern is that uh eleanor waleed and i are actually between both this this property
and then my neighbor on the other side of me right because it's it's 28 14 right 28 16 20 18 28 20
um my biggest concern and if i would feel a lot better if we could all address these things and
it might be something that's like more of an offline conversation and like again i'm happy
to have that combo i now that i see you and know you guys like i'm much more i'm ready i'm cool to
have that combo but my biggest concern is this the neighbor in 2820 has an app has a turf backyard
that he that they use to relieve their pets right so their pets go to the bathroom on that turf
and um it consistently smells like urine and defecation out there
It consistently smells like urine and defecation out there.
And to the point where, I mean, Ellen and Waleed, they said that they have their windows open, but we are always talking about, hey, look, it smells really bad.
We don't even want, like for me and my family, we don't even want to go outside.
My primary concern, so if you're going to have a business, and the business already proved, right, and I think you need venting.
my primary concern is if we start mixing in commercial trash right without actually
addressing that problem then i think we do have like a very real possible issue of pest control
and quality of life right because if we mix if we're mixing and i don't know how how often and
this is kind of more the conversation i want to kind of know more information about how often are
you guys plan on baking how often how many clients you have like all that kind of stuff
my biggest concern is if it's happening a lot and god forbid that we have a trash issue
question sure did did any of you go to the meeting no we didn't know
it's our fault yeah okay all right okay well is there is there information i'm just saying
the local wait wait local the rco would favor this that's fine yeah that right right yeah that's
maybe they don't have the same issues you did yeah okay i just i don't know this might not be the
right form but i just wanted to kind of come up here and just at least say there's a way that we
could and as this is being constructed i'm again i'm i feel a little bit differently as this is
being constructed if there's a way that we can all address those things that would be how about
this we have a week we have a week yeah why don't we do that let me talk to them let me talk to them
outside and see let me get their information by the way anytime you have a community meeting if
know the community meeting even if you miss it our information is on there so you can always reach
out to us beforehand so we can deal with those issues beforehand what's that we'll do a lot of
these things too well i mean i'm just i'm just saying we could i have a letter here where they
voted okay so but you could do your research yeah but we'll we'll reach outside we'll figure it out
we'll see what we can do in terms of addressing their issue in terms of the trash i know the
board has ideas and I have ideas as well this to address that let me see maybe
handle the trash issue with them that's right exactly exactly and we'll then
update the board by okay so we're gonna hold it for a week then we said
initially yeah I just I don't know if we put a date down to the 26th yeah okay
we'll get it done question does the base is the basement included in all of this
I do not think so I would ask that Laurie and oh they're both shaking their
My head's no, so I do not think so.
So who has access in the basement?
I think one of them is raising their hand.
Oh, I think it was just...
Oh, just so I know.
She just kept it up.
So there are only tenants in there.
There's two residential units above.
I don't know who has it, but we don't.
Like the tenants...
So neither of the first floor commercial spaces have access to the basement, direct access to the basement.
That's right.
Right?
Okay, because I'm assuming the second and third floor...
Sounds like that's a question for that owner. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, I hear this. I do a little clean up. All right. All right. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Multiple principal uses. We didn't need to worry about that.
uh multiple principal uses we didn't need to worry about that
sorry as of this point no but if there's an issue we'll deal with it but don't planning
have taken position on this yeah yeah
now this is matero planning commission staff the comprehensive plan recommends a change in zoning
from the existing rsa 5 residential single family to cmx 2 commercial mixed use under the recommended
cmx2 zoning personal services and commissaries and catering services are allowed by right
the planning commission recommends the board grant their proposed use variances
thank you very much thank you he'll be in touch with us
all right thank you thank you
mr chair just to uh make it nice and clear on the record that
vote in that matter will be held one week until august 26 at 2 o'clock pm
Number 12, MI-2026-002-287-121 Levering Street.
William O'Brien is the attorney.
He's usually here.
William O'Brien, please raise your virtual hand and wait to be sworn in.
the chair they'll be coming back in as a panel good good yeah we gave them 430
good afternoon chairman bergman members how are you how are you mr o'brien could you please
state your name as spelled before the stenographer. William O'Brien, W-I-L-L-I-A-M-O-B-R-I-E-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
I do. Mr. O'Brien, could you please tell us who your client is in the relationship to the property?
My client is the owner of the property, the Maniunk Development Corporation.
Right. And I see the Maniunk Neighborhood Council has a unanimous letter of support.
Our vice chair has a few questions.
Good afternoon.
Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing?
Yes, I did.
And you have a couple of refusals here.
So do you waive the reading of the refusals and stipulate to their accuracy?
All right.
Thank you.
You can share your screen and proceed with your case.
Thank you.
I'm looking for the button to share my screen.
It should be at the bottom of the green button.
But I don't see it.
Mr. O'Brien, you may have to expand your window a little bit before you can see it.
Yeah, I don't see it.
I've reduced the window, so I've got everything.
There's no green button, sir.
Oh, here it is.
Just appeared.
you're coming up you're good okay can you see the refusal well i can't great okay um so this is a
parcel uh that the development corporation acquired in 2024 it was actually two adjacent
parcels one was about 450 square feet the other was about 725 square feet orphan parcels parcels
on the corner of Crescent and Levering Street.
Carred them from separate owners, consolidated them into a 1,234 square foot lot.
And the proposal, so the development corporation for the last 30 years has been responsible
for cleaning the Manioc business district.
And to accomplish that, it has a variety of equipment, storage needs,
and those are now located within the district in different locations. The idea behind acquiring the
property was to erect a structure that would accommodate the storage of the equipment and
provide some storage for the development corporation for the many events that it holds.
The Neighborhood Council, as Chairman Bergman mentioned, is in support and I'd like to read
as Chairman Bergman mentioned, is in support. And I'd like to read the second page
the same
of their letter to explain their support. We note the following circumstances and
characteristics of this project. The Manningham Development Corporation identified
an irregular vacant lot in a prominent position in the MDC bid area, resolved a tangled title,
and purchase the property. MDC consulted the neighborhood council about the outline of their
proposal before hiring an architect and incorporated suggestions into their briefing
document. The design includes a residential component in addition to their immediate
requirements. MDC presented the scheme to the neighborhood council zoning committee and
adjusted the design to reflect comments made. The final design uses durable quality materials and
is designed to complement the transition between the residential district and the commercial
corridor at this location. The neighborhood council supports MDC's creative approach to
this derelict and difficult lot and believes the result will be an asset to the neighborhood. We
urge the zoning board to approve this request. Let me get you some photographs. So this is the
vacant lot. It's 1,234 square feet. This is Crescent Street with the railroad
overpass above it and in the foreground is Levering Street. This is to the left
of the property looking east. Three-story single-family attached homes.
Stucco and stone. This is the other side of the street. This is the Sorrentino's
deli that's painted brick the next one's brick the old post office here is a brick facade and
then there's stucco this is the proposed facade of the structure this incorporates the neighborhood
council's recommendations it has brick facing the commercial district on crescent and stucco
complementing the residential structures to the east
This is looking at from Crescent Street to the commercial face of the building, if you will.
Those garage doors will be available to open and for vehicle storage that is used in cleaning the district.
So here you see the site plan.
This is the lot.
This is the lot, but it was actually two parcels two years ago.
And here are the floor plans.
So this is part of the first floor.
This is towards the north, if you will, towards the Levering Street side.
This is the work area.
So the crew has a place to have lunch.
There's a full bathroom, a little kitchenette with undercounter, refrigerator, and microwave and lockers.
On the other side, I have to move this.
Bear with me.
On the other side, you see the curb cuts from Crescent Street and the vehicle storage.
The vehicles are electric carts.
They're not, no fumes.
And then in the back, there is some incidental storage, trash storage, and incidental storage as well.
Here is kind of an overview of that first floor showing the curb cuts.
I'm sorry.
this is i got my reef okay the the box with the um
here we go i can move that okay so here is the um
third floor plan which as the neighborhood council mentioned uh is a um a one-bedroom apartment
The bedroom here, living area, kitchen, bathroom.
This is an aerial view.
This is the train trestle.
And then here's the building.
This is an earlier rendition showing brick facing Levering Street as the photograph showed.
this will become stucco here's a building section showing the three floors
Um, here's a building section showing the three floors, uh, the zoning plan.
And again, this, this, this has been revised.
It will not have that brick facade facing, uh, Levering Street.
Again, these are early renderings, but it shows the massing and the size.
there have been some changes to the openings these openings have been modified to be more symmetrical
i think that's all i have um if gwen mccauley would raise her virtual hand
and bill does they have a headquarters too right oh yes let me go back this is the supplement to
their headquarters. Yeah, let me go back to page four real quick. So this is a map from Atlas.
I can drag it over.
there we go it's coming okay can you see that this map i can okay so the yellow triangle is
the parcel we're discussing uh the blue box on grape street is the manny development corporation's
office so this building will give the development corporation the opportunity to consolidate some
desperate uh functions that are in different locations in the district into this one central
location that's very put the carts in there and things like that the cleaning carts and all
exactly and you wonder there's a rental on the third floor and then a third floor would be
one a one-bedroom apartment to help offset the expense of the structure right okay
ms mccauley
gwen mccauley please raise your virtual hand and wait to be sworn in
Please hear.
Debbie rejoining for the Mr. Chair.
they've been promoted thank you could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
my name is gwen mccauley
gwen mcc a u l e y and i am the executive director of manioc development corporation
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
yes i do and could you turn your video on please yes council
uh ms mccall you just uh want to make sure the record got that that you are the executive
director of the manual development corporation i am and were you in the virtual audience and
you hear my testimony i did uh is my testimony truthful it is and you adopt it as your own
i do and on a scale of one to ten how great would it be having this facility
in one location that close to the office about 11 and a half thank you
questions from the board i have just a few questions one in one of your renderings it showed
the third floor roof deck as an l-shaped deck that wrapped onto crescent street but in this
view here it shows it as a deck that's really facing uh what street is that levering street
and i just wanted clarity yes this is the only deck and it faces levering street
and there is a refusal uh that is one of the refusals bear with me i can go back up
yes because you didn't have the setback yeah
i just wanted to check because in one view you had it up against the train
right now that's the only there's one deck and it's on the second floor levering street
Right. There's one deck and it's on the second floor, Levering Street facing.
and faith.
Second floor? Because I thought your plan showed it attached to the residential unit on the third floor.
No, it's on the second floor. I can show that again.
Okay. Yeah. And then that was going to be my second question.
Because I think the second floor was listed as just storage.
And I guess because you talked about storage on the first floor as well as the employee brink room.
I just wanted more clarity about what types of things are being stored.
and what's the access to get to the second floor, since there's two entrances.
Let me see if I can bring that down.
So the staircase to the second floor is through this first floor.
All right.
The entrance to the third floor apartment is from Levering Street.
okay and this is the storage that's accessible at ground level on the first floor the second
floor storage is all dry storage the development corporation runs many events every year and
there's equipment that is used and reused there's christmas decorations that are used and reused
right now they're stored in various locations in the district in containers and we're going to be
to save the expense of those container rentals and have it all here okay all the questions and
then my last question was about the curb cut have those already been approved and reviewed by streets
department yes yes that was my question that was my question yep it's not in my materials but
they have been approved okay thank you all the questions questions from our attorney
no questions at this time questions or comments from the virtual audience
you will not see any further hands mr chair planning commission
madison matera planning commission staff the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the
existing rsa 5 residential single family zoning at this location this is an irregularly shaped
vacant corner lot the appellant issue that there are unique physical conditions or
circumstances of this property that would prevent it from being used in conformance with the zoning
code planning commission recommends that the board grant the proposed variances for roof desk
deck setback maximum occupied area minimum rear yard depth and equipment and material storage
mi2026-002-287-121 levering street i vote yes michael johns my vote is yes
cheryl gaston my vote is yes tennetta graham my vote is yes
ion my vote is yes thank you counsel thank you all right number 13 mi 2026
002 396 123 to 29 chestnut tree leonard altieri is the attorney
Good afternoon, counsel.
Good afternoon, everyone.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman.
Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yes, my name is Leonard, L-E-O-N-A-R-D.
Last name is Alteri, A-L-T-I-E-R-I, with the law firm of Claire Harrison Harvey Brandsburg.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, told the truth, nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client, their relationship to this property?
My client is J.P. Morgan Chase Bank, who is the tenant of the subject property.
old city district has sent a letter of support and non-opposition from council member um
squillip and also a letter from uh preservation preservation alliance the vice chair has
questions for you good afternoon have you submitted your documents and exhibits five
days in advance of this hearing i have and do you waive the reading of the refusal and
super late to his accuracy i do okay thank you you can show your screen and proceed with your case
Thank you very much. So again, good afternoon, everyone. Leonard Altieri with the law firm of Clara Harris and Harvey Brandsburg for the property at 123 Chestnut Street. As you can see on my screen, it is an existing Chase Bank. What my client is proposing to do is to remove the existing flagpole, which is associated to a projecting sign along Chestnut Street, which extends currently 18 feet, three inches from the building.
If you look at the screen where my cursor is, this is the flagpole that we are speaking about.
Put another angle, you can see it again, this flagpole right here.
What our intention is, is to replace that flagpole with a new projecting sign, a new flagpole that will extend 10 feet from the building.
When you look at it from a side profile, again, the base of the pole will measure 27 feet from the sidewalk, from the grade to the top of the pole will measure 30 feet, and the proposed flagpole will also match the existing angle of the existing flagpole that we have.
When you look at it from a side profile, again, the base of the pole will measure.
What we're proposing to put on that is essentially just a projecting sign. It'll be a flag that just says Chase Bank. The flag will be 15 square feet total. It'll be 3 feet wide by 5 feet long.
it'll have weights at the bottom to stop it from really going crazy when the wind starts
blowing and the changes for a more stronger and updated pole but also it's smaller because it's
less weight that needs to be supported with regards to similarities of other projecting
signs in the neighborhood it's pretty consistent to what we have as you can see on the screen here
there's other projecting wall signs in the immediate vicinity buena vista glory kyber
pass royal fair brownies irish pub buffalo billiards etc the property itself is located
in the cmx3 community commercial and mixed-use zoning district this right here is just showing
you because it's important for the historic preservation letter what we will be doing as
noted in the historic preservation letter is removing and replacing in the exact same location
because there is a historic facade which we'll get into later but that that's just what showing
you on that. Again, CMX3 community commercial mixed use zoning district. It is also under various
overlay districts, none of which are necessarily applicable to the present application. We received
a refusal from LNI because the proposed sign is proposed to extend 10 feet, whereas four feet is
otherwise permitted. So essentially we're asking just for a relief of six feet to allow that sign
go out there as the chairman noted and as i uh alluded to earlier we do have two letters one
from the philadelphia art commission uh dated january 14 2026 uh with with conditional approval
that the flagpole is to retain the same overall design as the existing flagpole including the
anchor the color the detailing again we will comply with that and then we also have a letter
from the preservation alliance just for the record since september december 23rd 1988 the
preservation alliance is held a facade easement on the property which encompasses both the south
and west elevations this letter dated november 12 2025 shows that the preservation alliance supports
the variance in the same exact location as the existing flagpole using the exact same holes
which is exactly what we plan to do so it's a pretty straightforward simple application that's
all that i have with regards to my presentation i'd like to just have joey martino from martino
signs who's the sign vendor gets sworn in to adopt that testimony sure why could you please why don't
you get a little closer to the mic why could you please state your name is spelled for the stenographer
joseph j-o-s-e-p-h last name martino m-a-r-t-i-n-o right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth
the whole truth nothing but the truth i do counsel uh mr martino were you present when i made the
presentation? Yes. Is everything that you heard accurate and true to the
best of your knowledge, information, and beliefs? Yes. And would you adopt the testimony as your own?
Yes. I don't want a whole dissertation.
What's the history of that building? That's a great question, Mr. Chairman, and I don't
have the history.
Ms. Gaston looks like she might know the history of the building.
Have you seen it once?
Yeah. Oh, I will. Next time I see you, Mr. Chairman, I'll have that in my fingertips.
That's okay. Cheryl will get it for me. I'm sure Cheryl's going to get questions from the board.
Yes, I guess just basic question. Why not use the existing flagpole?
Again, because we're going with a smaller sign, we don't need that long of a poll. It would just
look a little bit out of character. I have no question.
other questions I actually just how long is the pole right now just 18 feet 18 feet six inches I
think a huge pole yeah that's what I thought I just wanted to make sure so we're shortening it
it's eight two I just didn't know how that's almost above the street right it's 18 feet three
inches long from the facade of the building so if you look right let me show you the existing so
this is a good angle oh yeah it's 18 feet three inches from the building over from the base of
the building to the side excuse me from the base of the pole to the sidewalk is 27 feet
you know up and down but it is an 18 foot pole and all we're looking to do is a 15 square foot
sign so it's a little all right uh anything else from our questions or comments from the virtual
audience i do not see any hands raised mr chair any commission madison matera planning commission
staff the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing cmx3 commercial mixed
use zoning at this location this proposal was reviewed before the art commission on january 14
this proposal was reviewed before the art commission on january 14th 2026. the proposed
2026, the proposed
flagpole is shorter than the existing pole bringing it closer to conformance with the code
planning commission recommends the board grant proposed variants for projecting signs
mi 2026 002 396 123 to 29 chestnut street i vote yes michael johns my vote is yes
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
Tanada Graham, my vote is yes.
Iowyn, my vote is yes.
Thank you very much, everyone. Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Number 14, MI 2026-002-739-2509 Welch Road.
Vern Anastasio is the attorney.
no not that i no a three nine i'm coming back in as a panel shortly mr chair
okay afternoon mr chair members of the board
oh you know i was talking about the other one um verne could you please state your name and
spelled for the stenographer yes it's verne anastasio a-n-a-s-t-a-s-i-o i'm here on behalf
of mr muhammad guba all right do you believe do you uh do you swear or affirm to tell the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the truth i certainly do our vice chair has a few questions
for you yeah good good afternoon have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance
of this hearing i have and do you waive the read and other refusals and stipulate to its accuracy
Thank you.
You can show your screen and proceed with your camera.
Council, we have a hearing hold on this?
We do.
We have an RCO scheduled for beginning of September.
That's it.
That was it.
Thank you.
Thank you.
This is the property in question.
We're looking at an aerial view of an older part of the archives, which I'm also moving into evidence today.
This property has been a Rite Aid for the last 30 plus years.
it is zoned residential single-family home although obviously it has never been as you
can see across the street we have other commercial uses as well it's also surrounded by mostly
rm1 properties just wanted to give you some sort of perspective on the aerial of the
building itself and of course the the parking lot
so we go from a right aid to uh some family aid uh what we're looking to do here is a group
child care uh in this property that's a pretty good line did you like that okay you practice
that one well i had all day to rest you know this is my first hearing today everybody laughing that
does it that doesn't usually happen right but anyway yeah we're going from red aid to family
aid um a little less um a little less uh uh impactful uh but still the refusal of course
is because it's prohibited in the rsa3 uh district let me show you what right a looks like today
unfortunately it's just an empty space as you know right about 30 some odd years ago right
aid infiltrated neighborhoods in philadelphia causing many of the smaller mom-and-pop
pharmacies to close and then just as quickly as they came uh just recently they all evaporated so
that's this is the property in question
there's a posting as well let me get to
this is the general layout you'll see better soon i mean this is it's a big box store i mean
that's what it is there's not much to that but let me show you the vision if i may
this will be the daycare center
and I have two or three
witnesses today who will discuss what their plans are
and why it's exciting for the community. This is
some rear portions. Right now, of course, it's in pretty bad
you know, condition. That's the rare area for trash. There is a, you know, Rite Aid used to
have a drive-through for pharmacy, pick up and drop off or whatnot. We're going to be using that
for pick up and drop off of children in a way that is make sure that
Pick up and drop off of children in a way that is make sure that Welsh road is not overtaxed and that we're going to have a really nice canopy on there for folks. And of course, there's still ample parking as well.
Give you some idea of existing conditions here.
Here's the notice letter that went out, inviting everyone to both today's hearing and the September 9th RCO meeting at the Penn Crisp Gymnasium.
Northeast Community Civic Alliance did try to get us in earlier, but they were unable to do that due to their summer schedule, so the Zoning Board staff was kind enough to allow us to present today.
88 individual households have been mailed.
Let's talk about some changes to the streetscape. What we're looking at is a new facade and a glass
entrance. There will be signage against the property and of course the site will be full
cut off LED lighting for safety. It will be directed away from the neighbors. There'll be
fresh landscaping and fresh pavement with new trees shrubs and planting beds and a fully restored
parking lot the sidewalk will have full repairs there'll be curb ramps and accessible routes
throughout this is the parking situation i mean the i guess uh traffic situation is what i should
So here's Wells Road. There'll be signs for entrance and exit.
And this is this will be a covered drop off canopy around the facility where folks can drive in, drop their children off and head out.
There's also plenty of visitor parking or staff parking.
and there'll be play zones as well on the other side of the building itself
for both toddler preschool and pre-k
this is how the site works one-way perimeter driving continuous loop lets vehicle circle
the building and exit forward with no reversing on the site. There will be a fenced outdoor play
area. There'll be fire and emergency access. The perimeter drive doubles as a code compliant fire
lane around the building. There'll be crosswalks and walkways that are delineated. The covered
drop-off and pickup will be fully staff assisted and curbside loading at the entrance keeps children
safe and the traffic moving clearly visitor staff and ada parking will be organized parking with
accessible spaces near the entrance as i mentioned before there'll be full landscaping buffers and
lighting and screen service areas for trash and recycling in an enclosed screened enclosure
away from any homes
we've got some playground area that's going to be separated by age there'll be artificial turf
and poured rubber flooring under every structure there'll be shade sales mature landscaping
outdoor classrooms and garden beds reading corners water and music play
and a decorative fence we understand the fence may need some additional permitting
Again, this traffic flow sort of keeps things off of a Welsh road in a way that we believe won't negatively impact the road or the immediate area in any way beyond what would be normally expected.
And we do have some environmental-ish items that we'd like to talk about.
There will be a secured controlled entry, secured access controlled front entrance with visitor management.
We have an authorized adult verification system for every child at pickup.
We will have code compliant exits, alarms, and clearly marked egress paths.
We'll have exterior lighting, security cameras, fencing, emergency vehicle access, and of course, ADA.
accessibility there'll be energy efficient lighting there'll be rain
gardens and drainage solar ready roof recycling program the planning
The planning landscaping will be mostly native low water landscaping. There'll be, of course, water efficient irrigation, EV charging, and durable low maintenance materials throughout.
landscaping will be mostly native low water landscaping
some questions that you may have will this increase traffic on welsh road the answer is no
the queuing will happen on site again in a one-way loop with staff assisted curbside drop-off
will playground be noisy for neighbors that outdoor play will be limited to
scheduled daytime periods only play area will be buffered by landscaping and fencing as well
we'll get into the hours of operation when we have my uh my witnesses on there'll be security
fencing lighting and maintenance throughout the property i think what i'd like to do right now
is call my client mr muhammad gabu guba sorry uh to the stand to adopt my testimony
okay that's all mr chair they'll be coming back in as a panel thank you
hello hello everyone hi could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer
mohammed guba m-o-h-a-m-e-d g-o-u-b-a-a all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes i do sir could you turn on your video please yes thank
you counsel thank you mr guba did you hear my presentation to the board today i did true and
accurate to the best of your knowledge it is and do you adopt it as your own testimony i do can you
tell us about hours of operation our hours of operation will be from 6 a.m to 6 p.m
uh monday monday through friday close on the weekends yes okay um approximate age range of the
children uh age ranges is going to be primarily starting off as a daycare where we're going to
have newborns and then eventually as we move on to the later grades we're going to be doing
four weeks to 12 years and then we're going to be doing preschool services as well
and what are the estimated number of employees at any one shift
our typical approximation for employees for a daycare the scale would be about
uh 18 to 35 employees full capacity for having people with traffic control and uh other people
that are working would be about 30 to 40 i believe right so if they're about three to four months
into the into the business understood and this will not only just be for folks who are doing
instruction in child care but also as you said uh traffic control maintenance and other sorts
of tertiary duties is that correct correct so uh what we want to do is we want to take the daycare
Learning Center into one facade. So we have our teachers, we have our TAs, we have the people that
are working in the daycare from day to day, our directors, so on and so forth. And then we have
what we call secondary members of the Google's Learning Academy branch, which are going to be,
for example, gymnasts, instructors, yoga instructors. We have a black belt judo
specialist who comes in and helps with exercise for some of the kids of the ages.
So we have someone who does the violin. So these are also members of our community that we
hire for a couple days a week to add to the inventory programs for the kids.
Very good. I have nothing further for now. Thank you.
Vern, could you, just out of curiosity, could you have him explain his background?
Yeah, I actually was going to call Sabah Hadid, who will be running it.
I'm sorry.
I just, yeah, I want to give you guys a breakdown.
Sabah Hadid is the individual who will be running the daycare operation.
She is a partner in the business as well.
She has extensive background, over 25 years of educational experience,
master's in hydraulic engineering.
She's also my mother.
And then we also have Yusuf Guba.
Yusuf Guba will be actually handling and spearheading all of the operational
technical facades of the business on day-to-day management.
And I handle business development, marketing, and growth.
Thank you, Mr. Guba.
Could I have your mom come on?
Is that okay?
Yep, thank you.
Then I call Ms. Sabah Hadid.
to to the stand
that we come up again at the panelist council thank you
thank you
hello hi could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer
yes s-a-b-a-h i did h-a-d-i-d all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the
whole truth nothing but the truth i do if possible could you turn to your video one sure
okay thank you very much council thank you ms hadid good afternoon
good afternoon thank you for joining us uh just very briefly the board just like to hear your
background and how you've come up with this vision and and how you plan to execute um so um i have a
background engineering from my country and masters in hydraulic engineering and then when i came to
this um to the united states um they um so they i i went to i taught in public school so they were
short and like shirts and they were um looking for math physics um all that so i start teaching
for like 19 years and then i just felt like my field is children not the engineering part so
So I switch and I start like thinking to just do something with children and like give the maximum of knowledge that I have.
And like in science, math, anything creative and all that.
This is how the idea came up.
And then I had the, when I start thinking about this project, that we already have one established already.
So my Mohammed and Yusuf helped a lot because they're native speakers and they're young to manage things that I cannot do.
So and then because the education field required, I mean, the daycare required education field.
So I went back to school and I got my associate education and then I'm about to graduate from Arcadia with bachelor degree in education as well.
Very good. So just to reiterate and surmise, 19 years as a public school instructor, presently operating a child care center, perhaps, and an additional training and degree to cover additional child care skills. Is that correct?
Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
With that, I'm going to call Mr. Youssef Gubak.
Would you guys like me to sign in from my account, or we can carry on from here?
No, that's fine.
Could you please state your name and spell it for his stenographer?
Youssef, Y-O-U-C-E-F, last name G-O-U-B-A-A, Gubak.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, told truth, nothing but the truth?
Counsel.
Thank you.
Youssef, very briefly, I just wanted to see if you had anything to add about the
operations and the vision uh to ensure that this place is is run correctly uh i feel like we've
we made a great impact on the uh on the region that we're fully that we're occupying now um
parents you know parents and people of the neighborhood the the ones who have their
children that attend our center uh they're constantly telling us as far as not just the
the curriculum and the program side of how their kids are you know learning and advancing but also
the convenience of how you know how close the their homes are as well as being on their way
to work and whatnot so i feel like this can help expand um it'll be a great addition to the
neighborhood and um yeah i think it's uh i think it's i think it's gonna it's gonna have a really
positive impact thank you yousef i i have nothing further mr chair did anybody adopt your testimony
I think Muhammad did, yes.
Okay, all right, good.
All right, questions from the board.
Councilor, can you pull up the site plan again?
Go ahead, Mike.
How many children in your current facility and how long have you operated it?
So currently at the moment we have 69 approved slots.
and that obviously rotates from morning and evenings depending on the children's schedules
we also have we're also enrolled with the phl pre-k program i'm not sure if you guys are
familiar with that but it's a program that offers uh it's it's pretty much a free program for kids
to to attend the two pre-k years um that we're we're always at full occupancy and we actually
a waiting list we we usually get booked out by january february max even though the school year
begins in september uh we've and you said the question was how long we've we've been in business
in business how long you've been operating yes operating the other facility we've been
how long you've been yes operating the other facility we've been since 2020.
since 2020 so six six years six years yes thank you ms winn i don't know if this is what you're
looking for otherwise i can show you the other stuff so it wasn't i'm actually looking for the
actual scaled site plan that shows the exterior and the curb cuts but you can leave this up
because actually it addresses my shared concern is that um a lot of the documentation that we've
been shown looks like it was done using generative ai or not using rendered plans and like for this
plan for very specifically um you're showing cross street and welsh road and i think in real life
welsh road is where cross street is and cross street is blue whatever the other street is
and there's multiple curb cuts currently for the Rite Aid and the building is not located where
you're currently showing it to allow the circulation in the play space so I just wanted
clarity because in one of the renderings you show the play space being attached to the Rite Aid where
the entrance is and the little Rite Aid roof tower is and this shows it currently behind
it where you've got a very narrow drive aisle to the rear fence and so i'm just trying to
really understand the relationship between the parking the road access the circulation
drive and this outdoor play space um i can answer that vern go ahead ma go ahead very good uh so
So the initial survey was with the architectures.
We can have them supply you guys with an exterior drawing for the sidewalks and the crosswalks
between curbside of Bluegrass Road, as well as Welsh Road.
When we ended up speaking with our civil engineer, as well as our architect plans in terms of
renderings, this was just a proposed idea for two different segments, whether we would
utilize the backspace where the dumpster area is for the pickup or a corner to the side, to the
right side of the entrance of the Rite Aid daycare. So what we ended up doing is we chose the latter.
So when you enter through Welsh Road, the idea is we just want to lower as much traffic from Welsh
Road as possible. So if you were driving down towards Welsh Road with the old Bank of America
facing in front of you, instead of the individuals having to cross, make a right, enter Bluegrass
road they would make a right going towards uh the global learning academy and then they would start
the loop um for pick up and drop off so they would go all the way down to the end of the building
make a right make a right and then go on and so forth uh cross-referencing pick up and drop off
uh the parking area and i'm glad that you've noticed that you are right the parking area
uh was uh one of the renderings that we've made uh just to see what we can play with if we were
to utilize a really big playground area for the kids, but that would kind of obstruct the idea
of having sufficient parking. So what we can do is I can send you guys a finalized rendering with
our architectural plans of where the play area will be, which will be on the cornered side of
the Rite Aid. If you guys were to pull up 2503 Welsh Road on the maps, you would see that there
is about five or six parking lots on the corner side of the property that's far away from
everything which would have the playground area as well okay i mean i hear you and i think that's
great but that this right now to me like my only major concern right now is an exterior you didn't
really have a ton of things to show for the interior it's a pretty much open floor space
and all you were adding was mostly bathrooms so i think like to understand the circulation
between people being dropped off uh youth um i just want to make sure that there's safe egress
for the youth that are in uh what are the barriers i think those are where all of my questions have
to deal with safety as it relates to the we can since we have to come back anyway after the september
ninth rco meeting uh if if the members of the board and the chairman will allow uh we'll be
able to supplement uh with with a more detailed uh site plan that shows all identifies all of the
sort of touch points that uh that you're that you're requesting we can do that at the resumption
hearing be happy to do i think also just to make sure like for the like i would uh get streets to
do a preliminary review of whatever your dry value plan is because it currently has three um
Um, three curb cuts with a lot of the access being on a much wider road, which is the bluegrass
road. And that's the side that you're planning to strike. So, um, I would be curious if you're
I would be curious if that if they're going to approve that as a traffic circulation, since there was no traffic study done for the site.
there, if they're going to approve that as a traffic circulation.
We can do that and then trash questions.
Trash, we did speak to trash, but I understand you might want that on the site plan.
You did. I went on the site plan also where it's currently shown in real life. You have something else being shown. So, since this is all hardscape now, I just would like to understand.
I understand. Yep, we can get a more sophisticated site plan with that. No problem.
Questions? Sure. I just had Lynn Riedelhuber, board council. I had a couple questions. I
apologize if this was asked and answered. How many children are you expecting at this location?
Yusuf?
so at this current location uh depending on how the the the structure with the bathrooms
and the closets and whatnot uh the final say obviously goes to the state but we are anticipating
i want to say between 80 to 90. um i think then amended refusal will have to be because
this is a group child care which i believe the maximum is 12. i'm sorry say it again
you applied for a group child care which the maximum is 12 i believe so take care
no you you applied for a group child care
okay that'll be easy to remedy but thank you okay and the next is uh with regard to park so you need
going to need amended refusal on that but with regard to parking i think you indicated you're
going to be redoing the parking or making changes to parking if so you're going to have to file a
separate application that's this is not part of the application the parking lot is where it is
right yeah we're not we're not doing anything with that i believe you testified that you were
going to be i don't have the correct terminology but you said something about the parking lot so
that could be something that you need to look in with regard to the parking lot but it's not part
this application i think he was referring to just maybe putting a fresh coat on top to
to avoid it if there's any chips or any potholes
let me just understand your question have you talked about that if you talked about the where
you're going to have the outdoor play in your plan yes over top of where parking was well the
the outdoor parking yeah well the outdoor plan is uh the outdoor play area is not part of this
application right now we were going for the use uh but of course the outdoor play area could in
fact eat up some of the parking would the outdoor play area be required for them to be able to
operate legally under state regulations that require no it takes away from space inside
however it's not it's not a requirement yeah oh you do it and do it i'll just put this again on
record parking is required so yeah again it's not part of this application
so if i may just interject uh verne uh if if you why don't do me a favor i think your your
attorney understands it yep we'll move on from there okay um questions or comments from the
virtual audience mr chair i do not see any further hands
No further hands, Mr. Chair, very good. Different. Yeah, we'll hold it. Okay. Thank you. So, so burn, uh, uh, the only where I am right now, I have a resumptive date of 12, a 26.
And, and I, um, and it's okay if I speak to the staff about getting that moved up, you, um, I, I just saw, uh, uh, Ian in the back wiping his brows.
as you said that but yeah you could yeah because he knows he knows i'm going to ask him yeah but
thank you he put his head down okay so so that that's where we stand it'll be a result of hearing
very good right now we're using 12-8 right understood and by then we we will have met
with the community uh in september 8th right yep and um shortly thereafter or before we'll have
the additional plans uh site plans that you're asking for thank you right is there anyone in
the audience whose uh two o'clock case has not been called i do not see any hands mr chair okay
so we have two cases left give us five minutes to get set up okay and we'll be right back when
we take five minute breaks it's only five minutes okay so we'll be back
all right good afternoon everyone my name is bill bergman i will be chairing
All right. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Bill Bergman. I will be chairing this meeting
of the Zoning Board of Adjustment. With me is our Vice Chair, Tanetta Graham.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Our Board Secretary, Cheryl L. Gaston.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Board members, Michael Johns.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Paya Nguyen.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Also present, our attorney, Lynn Reuter-Huber, and our Executive Director, Ian Haggerty.
The hearing is being recorded and will be posted on the ZBA website.
By participating, you agree to be recorded.
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After that, each time you testify, please state your name.
To enter an appearance, indicate the property address on the Zoom webinar.
speak with a staff member
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your name email and the address of the property in question remote participation raise your virtual
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join as a panelist button. Use the Q&A for only procedural questions, not questions about the
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uh aggressive behavior will not be tolerated in in an emergency follow staff instructions the
the main exit is the double doors at the rear and to the left outside is the stairwell if you if we
are uh evacuating go to love park which is directly across the art street and please remain
here so we can account for you so let's look at our schedule for this afternoon number one
MI-2025-004-139-3861-NORF-17-Street.
This is the third listing.
We have no exhibits.
Kelly and Allison Naylor are the listed owners.
Zika Cavs Sample is the listed third party.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.
this is jason panda will be your calls for the session there are no hands raised for the matter
and i do not see this is the third this is this is the third listing so mi 2025 004 139 38 61 north
17th street i vote to dismiss michael johnson my vote is to dismiss cheryl gaston my vote is to
dismiss. Tonetta Graham, my vote is to dismiss. Hi, Owen, my vote is to dismiss. And MI 2026-00294,
8414 Hegerman Street. This case is being continued until 1-13, um,
1-13 at 3.30 p.m. in 27. How's that? All right, and we're going to go to what our first
case mi 2026 000 449 1233 south 58th street daniel davis is the owner the applicant it's pro se
mr davis
they'll be coming back in that's okay you can oppose you can pose mr davis
i am here can you hear me i i can mr davis please state your name
and spell it for the stenographer daniel davis d-a-n-i-e-l d-a-v-i-s do you do you swear or
affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do mr davis our vice
chair has a few questions for you okay good evening um have you submitted your documents
and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing yes i have okay and you you understand that your
application is for uh three dwelling units and it's an um and a property yes okay and do you
understand your refusal to be that um that use is prohibited in your rsa three zoning district
three zone and district yes okay all right so you can uh share your screen and tell us what you'd
yes okay all right so you can uh share your screen
like to do okay
it's coming up though i think it's like it's in the audience
you see where it says share your screen yes i'm there i'm just working on uh yeah the
screen that i think you open up you open up your documents first and you go to share the screen
So I believe I had it a few things open.
One second.
We have a letter of opposition from the 51st Ward 2.
can you guys see my screen no we cannot sir okay one second
okay what about now um i see an empty screen right now but okay let me scroll up in here
let me scroll up yeah all right so here you you're up now you're up okay
all right here is the original refusal yes sir
all right
so i am aware that
It is a residential district, but I am also aware that directly across the street from the property, there is a multi-unit and three addresses to my left.
There are multifamily units directly around the corner at 5745.
There was an application approved for four single family units
and also parking for four to six cars.
So why don't you show us what you want to do?
I'll read it first.
One second. So at 1233, the proposed work consists of the interior renovation of the existing residential structure for conversion into three dwelling units.
the blueprint the the building footprint height existing appearance exterior will remain unchanged
uh each unit set up a little bit different the first floor will have two bedrooms
why do you look listen to me as you're explaining that one of you shows the photos for the plans
okay no problem let me go further than that easier yep no problem
we have all your paperwork that we need okay got it
okay here are my pictures pictures of the photos on the property
okay these are existing photos of the property
a big three-story house
for first floor interior
that's a second floor photo here a little bit mixed up but it's another first floor photo
second floor photo uh first floor common area going upstairs
first floor area existing kitchen
other view of the existing kitchen this is one of the third floor rungs
this is one of the third floor rooms
another third floor room another angle to third floor
another third floor room
uh another third floor room that's just a different angle of third floor room this is the second floor room
a different angle to the same room another second floor room
third floor bathroom existing
this is third floor existing bathroom
second floor existing bathroom this is exterior now um i know one of the
issues with the rco meeting was that uh trash and i know uh based on it's being three units it would
be required to have commercial trash there's plenty of space out here to store
a recycling and a trash bin for each unit
so so let me mention do you have plans for what you want to do yes i do yep why don't you show
the plans of what you want to do so we know how you're going to separate the building
got it okay so this is the existing plan of the first floor
the main entrance this is living area here this is living area here not now go inside inside now
this is existing kitchen pantry and other side of existing kitchen
can you just go to the proposed plans yes sorry about that
so this is the proposed pan of the first floor that you just saw main entrance uh
The stairway up to the first floor will be widened to 36 inches for plans.
Fire rated stairwell.
Fire rated will separate pretty much each floor.
Where the pantry was on the first floor will become a bathroom.
The kitchen space will stay the same.
The first floor will house a two-bedroom.
The second floor. Let me see. Here's the second floor. Second floor.
Can you zoom out so we can see the whole floor plan as you talk about it?
Yeah. One second. So this is the second floor.
Unit. This is steps from the first floor up to the second floor.
The entrance will be here for the second unit off to the right. Coming into the unit will be bathroom right off of the bathroom will be a living space kitchen storage pantry here will be the first bedroom.
here will be the second bedroom here will be the third bedroom for the second unit
all the windows are designed for the egress and here is the egress route
for the third floor unit
the steps from the second floor will continue around up to the third floor here
this will give access to the third floor this will be the unit entrance here
on the right will be the bathroom here will be the entrance to the first bedroom
it will be a kitchen and a dining space
this will be a second bedroom this will be a third bedroom
and again all the uh windows are set up for the egress and here is the egress routing to the steps
all right here the rest of the plans as far as the framing
uh again no exterior uh alterations will be done
here's the proof of the mailing of the rco meeting our rco meeting was i think it was june 29th via zoom
Here's the proof of the mailing of the RCO meeting or RCO meeting.
uh let me get down to the bottom
here is the the letter uh of the results from the zoom meeting rco
uh here is i got the picture of the commercial building that was uh
approved right around the corner 5745 thomas avenue
okay so my project details here
and then all through the neighborhood I took a few portraits of just empty lots
I know parking was an issue that the RCO raised and there's easily six lots within
the four block radius
right around the area of the house the daycare does pose a parking but only during the hours
operation um this is the other side of the uh that i can see from 12 33 58 street that spot
that block is usually all open at night as far as parking um up the street i don't have pictures of
that but there is a mox that that does contribute to parking issues on friday and then there is a
church that has a seven-day Adventist church that has a service on Saturday. So that does
have issue with parking. But in the neighborhood, there's access to
multiple forms of public transportation. And in the society we live in, everybody may not
own a car or drive in regards to the parking
issue.
These are just other vacant lots which don't take up parking.
In this corner here you see the edge of the church
which is the one, that's Frazier Street I believe.
This is another empty lot on Thomas Avenue.
um are there any questions for me in regards to what i presented questions from the board
yeah i have a few questions what is your intended use for the basement
the basement will be storage um storage for the first unit and uh hvac the mechanicals for the
first unit only the first unit so are the other where the other hot water heaters and electrical
i mean utility connection is going to be okay the utilities for the okay the utilities the water
will be there the third floor has a very spacious attic which will be um storage for the third floor
and that should store the hvac unit for the third floor also okay and so the only access to the
basement is through the first floor unit no the first floor will have an access to the first floor
unit and then there also be a rear access to the first floor plan again since when you were on it
you didn't zoom out I'm sorry yeah let me go that was roughly pages 50 I think my second question
is uh i i understand what you're trying to do but could you walk me through your uh hardship
argument okay here is the access to the basement for the first floor so it's only through the
first floor unit like you have to be inside there first floor and then uh let me see there is a
outside entrance to the basement also.
Do I have a picture of that?
I believe that was in one of the pictures.
Can you just zoom out so that the whole drawing sheet is visible?
Yes, ma'am.
Please. Thank you.
Let me zoom in right here.
The whole sheet's still not visible.
Okay, one second. I wanted to show the access to the basement.
Here's the access to the basement.
other questions yeah go back to the sheet of the yeah that that the sheet they propose yeah
the proposed plans yeah the proposed yeah right so that so that sheet um where does that
Well, for one, let's start with your units kind of don't work because you've got too many bedrooms and too small of living areas for those bedrooms.
You've got a three-bedroom unit with just basically a kitchen.
You know, it's got a kitchen and the three bedrooms.
It just doesn't work.
Where does that second stairway on that third floor go?
Is that to the attic?
The attic?
let me see there's a there's a stairwell there that goes that goes to the attic yes okay so
you see that that uh unit you got three bedrooms and just a kitchen that there's nowhere there's
nowhere for living room there's nowhere for you know it doesn't work same thing with the second
floor you've got three bedrooms and barely room to have any sofa chair anything you know the first
floor is same thing you've got two bedrooms and barely enough room for any kind of living space so
in terms of the layout the units don't work okay now that is a big property it's about a
3 300 square foot property i understand that understand that but based on the plans that
you provided it doesn't show that it's they're livable for the number of bedrooms that you
provided were they one two bedrooms maybe on the second and third floor then you've got a decent
enough living area right but it's three bedroom units they don't work so okay they just don't
do you see the sizes for the bedrooms um yes because he zoomed in 13.8 okay yes i understand
what you're saying you look at the space that you you have 181 square feet you have 181 square feet
for kitchen dining room and living room for a three-bedroom unit okay okay the bathrooms look
out of scales but that's a minor issue that doesn't have to do with zoning got it right
so it's so just kind of based on that it's it's tough for me to support what you're trying to do
other questions yeah and you said uh the trash for the units would be stored on the outside
and then are you building something to yes i'll be building something out there okay yes
there's plenty of space on in the rear to build that all right and then i'm gonna
to give my pet peeve. My pet peeve is that I don't like it when you have to wander through
all kinds of spaces to get to a bathroom. When you're laying there, you get up at two or three
o'clock in the morning, the idea that you have to wander through these three bedrooms and then
the kitchen to get to a bathroom i i i think that that's a horrible layout and i agree with um
board member zones about the size of you know the idea that you're trying to squeeze three
bedroom units in here it just it just doesn't it doesn't work i think we have some opposition here
attest by but let's go to our attorney first uh sure lynn reidel huber board council um i had a
quick question are you asking for any parking i don't believe you are correct no there's public
street parking there's plenty of parking um like i said across the street there that block is wide
open at night no i meant parking on your property no i'm not asking for any parking all right just
for the record um there should have been refusal for parking um with regard to your application
just putting that on the record all right questions from the audience come on up sir
there's there's a gentleman here who's going to testify apparently in opposition to this
good afternoon sir good evening oh well no this is our afternoon this is our afternoon
afternoon okay afternoon but but before you start thank you for being here so long i know you've
been back there a long time uh could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer
my name is thomas weeks t-h-o-m-a-s w-e-e-k-s do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth
W-E-E-K-S.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Mr. Weeks, are you a neighbor?
I am a committeeman in the 51st, and I live in the 23rd, which is what we're talking about.
Sure. Why don't you start your testimony?
The proposed project fails to satisfy the criteria set forth in the Title 14 of the Philadelphia
Code for granting a zoning variance, specifically the proposal.
Number one, it creates unnecessary hardship, self-imposed by the developer.
However, the subject property can be reasonably developed under its current RSA 3 designation.
The applicant has failed to demonstrate a unique physical hardship inherent into the land.
Two, alters the essential character of our neighborhood.
The proposed density and the scale are incompatible with the existing context of surrounding properties, altering the character of our block.
Three, negatively impacts in structure and quality of life. The increase of density will accelerate severe local parking shortages, increased traffic congestion on this residential street.
which already has a daycare center and a church, and strains existing public infrastructure, including trash pickups.
Number four, last, sets a harmful precedent, granting this variance undermines the neighborhood's master plan and the community-supported zoning designations.
This proposal is not a plus for our neighborhood. He's mentioned parking. He's also said that there's plenty of parking, and that is not true. I live on the street beside it, Ashland Avenue. I'm the block captain, and I have a garage.
um there are many women who have jobs on my block and um because of the cars are
are there's so many cars in the neighborhood i tell my neighbors just the women if there's no
parking and on the block which and there isn't a lot you can park in front of my garage um that's
the least i can do but uh i'm going to say that's it um it's it's not it
it's it's not a plus for our neighborhood thank you you spent a lot of time here today we appreciate
it thank you anyone else in the virtual audience
mr chair i do not see any further hands mr davis i'll give you a chance to respond
okay yeah i would like to respond to that um i didn't say that my uncle was the previous owner
My uncle passed away. I purchased the property from my cousins because properties of this size.
They take a lot of maintenance. I did send some pictures of vacant lots where previous houses that stood,
I guess they went on maintenance, burglarized, vandalized, and torn down.
And there's definitely a lot of houses in the area that pretty much the same way, kind of disrepair.
My plan here is to keep this property from going down by having multiple families in the property.
um multiple families um i believe will be a good use of the property
by one of the main reasons there aren't a lot of big families uh nowadays um and that's a big
property which means that that would be a big overhead on whoever stays there if that is a
single family like i said there are a lot of properties i noticed in the area just just
repair and it just kind of falling away kind of defacing the neighborhood if you will my goal is
to uh put a few put a few properties together affordable properties that will kind of help the
housing market the the city what the mayor is trying to do as far as affordable housing
and and in regards to the parking it's not guaranteed that everybody that lives in 1233
street will drive there's a lot of people that use uh ride share apps nowadays um
And on 58th Street, across from the property, if you come outside at night, that is totally vacant at night.
and on 58th street across from the property if you come outside at night that is
So there's plenty of places to park over there.
All right. Thank you very much. Planning Commission.
Addison Matera, Planning Commission staff.
The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing RSA 3 residential single-family zoning at this location.
The appellant has not demonstrated that there are unique physical conditions or circumstances of the property that would prevent it from being used in conformance with the zoning code.
The Planning Commission recommends the board to deny the requested variance for multifamily housing.
Can I say something before we make a ruling?
I just want to say I don't necessarily have an issue or a problem with multi-unit or duplex or something like that.
My issue is with the layout.
Right. My issue with is with the density of the units that you made.
Got it. So I guess to that to that point, do you have an issue with reducing that plan or changing the plan?
And I know that's not a zoning issue, but I just can't vote and support with that or reducing the number of units.
I don't have an issue with that within reason.
well um we're going to have to do a resumptive hearing right right you're going to have to
go to but but the issue are you going to change i mean we don't do a resumptive hearing come back
with the same thing same thing right no no that that's not my stance at all well how many apartments
you're going to have uh well i have to talk it over with the architect it has to be feasible
has to be it has to make sense
okay um here's here's what here's what i'm going to do go ahead um we can we can hold this for
discussion right and if during the discussion we could come back out and say resumptive hearing
okay sure right right well
I get that. But what do you do with the thoughts and events, right? You're on the bench, too. He's got a big, significant change.
That's right. Right.
All right. I'll tell you what I'm going to do. We're going to take this under consideration. I'm going to vote on this next Wednesday at 930. Okay?
Okay. All right. And we'll let you know where we stand. Okay.
Got it.
number four mi 2026 001 740 1643 north marshall street yolanda arnetta yolanda come on
um and we're helping on this one oh here you go all right i'm first of all i'm sorry you had to
be here for this long period of time but uh actually with this the earliest which we've
been in a long time so do me a favor could you please state your name and spell for the
stenographer sure my name is yolan arnett that's y-o-l-a-n-a-r-n-e-t-t all right do you swear or
affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes our vice chair is
going to have a couple questions for you okay good evening um have you submitted your documents
and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing yes okay and you understand that you're here for
visitor accommodations and you also understand your refusal to be um visitor accommodations are
prohibited in your rsa5 district yeah okay all right so you're going to get some help with um
your document so you could just tell us what you're trying to do sure and i've prepared a
written statement if that's okay that i sure read it um hello my name is yolan arnett and i'm the
owner of the property located at 1643 north marshall street i am here regarding my application
to renew my visitor accommodation use variance, which was previously granted in January 2023 by
this board. Over the past several years, I've operated this property responsibly as a short-term
rental while maintaining it as a legally existing three-unit residential building. The variance
allowed me to provide temporary accommodations without making any structural changes to the
building or altering its residential character during that time the property has operated safely
quietly and without incident since my previous variants expired on january 15th of this year
i'm respectfully required three years three years yes okay i am respectfully requesting
I am respectfully requesting approval to continue the same use under substantially the same conditions that the board previously found appropriate.
approval to continue the same use.
This request does not involve any expansion of the building, an increase in number of the dwelling units, or any physical modifications.
The property remains exactly as it did when the variance was originally approved, a legally existing three unit residential building whose layout naturally accommodates independent short term guests.
The only relief I'm requesting is the continued flexibility to rent those existing units for shorter periods of occupancy.
I've made all of the required efforts to work collaboratively with the surrounding community, including the required neighborhood outreach and participating in the RCO meeting.
Following that meeting, the RCO voted in support of my application and submitted a letter to the board recommending approval.
the letter notes that the community members expressed positive feedback regarding the
property's operation there were no complaints regarding the property and the rca rco ultimately
voted in favor of supporting this application i believe that support reflects reflects how the
property has been managed my goal has always been to operate in a manner that is respectful of my
neighbors and consistent with the residential character of the neighborhood guests are provided
with clear house rules regarding noise occupancy and respect for the surrounding residents
occupancy levels remain comparable to traditional residential use
and there are there has been no increase in traffic demand in public utilities or impact
on public safety beyond what would be expected from residential property this application is
not asking for the board to approve a new or more intensive use. Rather, it's a request to continue
a use that has already been demonstrated to function successfully and responsibly.
The previous variants provided an opportunity to show that visitor accommodations at this property
could coexist with the surrounding neighborhood, and I believe that experience has confirmed
exactly that. I asked the board to consider not only the physical characteristics of the property
and the legal standards for variants, but also the property's actual operating history.
The building has remained residential, the neighborhood has not been adversely affected,
and the community has expressed its support for the continuing use. For these reasons,
I respectfully request that the board grant my application to allow me to continue operating
1643 North Marshall Street as a visitor accommodation under the requested variant.
why don't you do me a favor see the what's up yes why don't you talk us through what you have
of course so these are some images of the property um what you're looking at are at the
very top two are the external uh images of the property um you can scroll to the next page of
images please these units do you have three okay um these are some pictures of the internals of
what the units look like where's that this is the second floor okay this is the third floor yep
any questions on the image um questions from the board see what the board says how many bedrooms
and bathrooms does each unit have each unit has three bedrooms and two bathrooms and then um
where have you currently been um posting these for to find your tenants primarily airbnb i also
have a listing on verbo but there's not much traction that comes from there and then just
from like a hardship i understand that you already had approval to do short-term rentals like what
drove the decision to make the entire building short-term rentals instead of in the middle of
a housing crisis in the city renting any of the units out as traditional rental since they are
actually so when i bought the building in 2021 that was my intent i bought it as an owner occupied
So I stayed in the building for two years before moving back to New York City. And I had, I bought the building with one vacant unit, which I occupied, and the other two had long term tenants. Unfortunately, I think the nature of the units, being three bedroom and two bathrooms, either only attract family structures, or I'm right by Temple University.
well away i teach temple roommate situations and it was just a nightmare i had to go through
the eviction process or at the time there were um some supports from the city with um slowing down
some supports from the city with um slowing down the eviction process for tenants that were not
paying and ultimately as a young investor i did not want my investment to go sour and so i wanted
to try the short-term um route to see if the building could be more profitable and it did
prove to be more profitable and in fact it supported the community in different ways i
I actually have a lot of community residents
that are in between housing that stay at the Airbnb
or for students that are graduating
from Temple University, this is where their families come
or for neighborhood residents that are hosting Thanksgiving
or some family reunions, even funerals.
I have been hosting a lot of the supporting family members
and residents for those events.
And so I actually find additionally a lot of workers that are like doing construction in the area, their companies tend to rent the units and have like three or five guys staying in the unit.
So the building actually supports a lot of community residents or connected members to that.
But for me, the use was just because the long-term tenants proved to be a little challenging for this particular structure.
I think if my units were smaller, it would attract potentially some more stable tenant styles.
but okay um i find that interesting given it's three bedrooms and that's like exactly how many
people you can we have in a rental in philly versus a lot of the other residents in this area
where there's more bedrooms and it causes other issues but i i hear you and understand you my
other question then is about property management since you are so far away how what what is your
process and are you working with a partner to manage and clean the property yes so i have a
co-host um that manages the airbnb and they are the ones that hire the cleaners and they basically
manage the logistics of um the day-to-day for the building um yeah okay any further any other
questions yeah so um at any given moment can all three units be rented out at the same time
and in those situations did you find any kind of issues or um was everything good no no issues i
think as as i was stating in the the letter um it's as if the building is fully occupied by
long-term residents um we are very strict in terms of setting up guidelines on airbnb in
terms of the number of occupants that can be in the unit um so there's there's nothing that would
overextend the use of the apartment beyond what it would be in terms of like long-term residential
nature. And where's your trash stored for your units? There's an alleyway on the side of the
building that is a part of my land. So that's where all the trash cans are. Is it a covered
container? Yes. I mean, is the trash cans in a covered area? No, the bins are lined on the side.
Um, so anybody can walk up to them and no, I have a gate to the side. Oh, my. All right. I think that has a lot.
All right. Other questions questions more attorney.
No questions at this time. Mr. chairman questions or comments from the virtual audience.
I do not see any hands raised, but any commission.
Madison, Terra planning commission staff.
comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing rsa5 residential single-family zoning
at this location the appellant has demonstrated that there are unique physical conditions or
circumstances of this property that would prevent conformance with the code the planning commission
recommends the board grant the requested variance for visitor accommodations okay mi2026 001 740
1640 North Marshall Street. I vote yes. Temporary variance that will expire 8-20-2030.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes with proviso. Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with proviso.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with proviso. Iowen, my vote is yes with proviso.
By the way, you did a great presentation. Good luck. Is there anyone in the audience whose case
has not been called. I'm going to check again because this is kind of early for us. Are
you sure there's not a couple of other cases out there somewhere?
Mr. Chair, I do not see any hands raised.
Thanks, everybody. See everybody next Wednesday.
All right, take care
All right. Take care.