ZBA Hearing - January 22, 2025

raised off of the sidewalk that church members and residents of church member residents of the

residential can use and utilize, correct? There's also a gym, right, on campus that can be used in

sort of for walking and activities and whatnot. I believe that's building number, I think, three or

four which is north of our building as far as the site plan um and yeah that was that was the other

question here if you look right here this building here is a is a gymnasium um that right now the

plan would be to maintain that as a gym uh and uh there is no plans right now to to turn that into

any other use other than um a recreation area uh for both the church uh and again the church

residents who live within

Building B. So there's

plenty of recreation area both

outside and inside here on

this campus. And the same thing

goes for the building of, what is that,

401 Lindley?

Well, so 401 Lindley, that

building, there isn't a plan for that quite

yet. You're talking about here, right here?

Building C? I guess it was the rectory.

Yes.

That's empty right now.

We don't have a plan for

that right now these are big projects these are yeah yeah that's and right and then these are

privately financed there is no public money right there is no there is no private money maybe that's

you know the the distinction here on who can live there and cannot there's no there's no private

money here in the in this project well i mean there's no public i don't know that even if it's

private there's no public money there's no public well i don't i won't argue that i'm not an attorney

but i don't know that you can do that even if there's private money that you can restrict you

can restrict the seniors maybe i don't know that you can restrict unless they're i don't know part

of a cult or something um but i think the issue really about the outdoor space was a defined outdoor

But I think the issue really about the outdoor space was a defined outdoor space that not is just that's not just open space, but that, you know, has some defined seating, some walking path, something for the folks that are going to live there all the time.

So I think that that's just a comment. It's a great project, but that's a.

Yeah. We could certainly work on a landscape plan at some point.

But again, there are there's a tremendous opportunities on the outside here.

and then also this gym space they got basketball courts in there i mean it was a you can imagine

what it looks like i think that's it michael are anyone else yes i have a few questions one i have

a question about the interior dining hall that was listed on the plan at floor two and is that

going to be a continued shared use and is access going to be restricted to residents when the

church is not in operation do they have access to that to that kitchen area right here

yes and as i as i understand ian this is primarily for the church itself um this area here which

again for churches often have an area where there where there's dining um and it's not

directly part of the residential um component of this but obviously again there's there's

interaction because these are um intended to be members of the church let him let me ask the

question please right mr smith so yes it's it's meant to be used for both people as i've been

directed by the owners and in this design it was formerly uh a catholic school cafeteria we wanted

to maintain that function and it supports the functions of the church which is adjacent as well

as serving the members if they want to partake in this sort of program. Can you walk me through

where the proposed elevator is going to be? Can somebody point out on the plan the general location

of the proposed elevator that's not? Yeah it's actually two elevators in this case and this is

a recommendation um by me um to help make sure that we have a solvent accessible use so at plan

north that brown area that's um right right here right there right below that yeah right below that

are two elevators that are that are serving the three-story levels and that's the only way

you can actually get the elevators to work on three levels because the basement is um below

grade on the interior side um and um is a full retaining wall below grade and as you move towards

Lindley Street it it emerges and is as primarily only three feet below grade okay and then walk

me through like if I'm in the hall standing like right outside the elevator bank where the stairs

go down right how do I transition into what you have coded as green or church space is that

all right is that a threshold so we are currently on the second floor so what we need to do is

transition to the first floor which should be the page prior to this isn't the dining area on the

second floor the dining area is on the second floor yeah I'm asking how do I get from that

hallway into the dining area oh oh I'm sorry go back to that yeah so you get into the dining area

through um uh through an opening that is aligned with the stair that goes down so it's just the

opening there's no doorway there's not a gate there's not a locked entry I'm sure there's a

there's a doorway there um that would be open when it's in function and use yeah but we didn't show

it uh in this particular case okay and then my um sort of last question is around uh what's the

process like how are you intending to market secure your tenants and what is your proposed

rent for the unit. So I believe Brett may have presented this earlier in his testimony and maybe

we can speak to that. He did not. That's why I'm asking. Yeah, sure. David, I want to ask the

operations manager david gantz to be promoted as panelist

hi mr gantz could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

hello can you hear me yeah i can please state your name and spell for the stenographer david gantz

d-a-v-i-d last name g-a-n-c-z do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing

but the truth i do please proceed brett yeah david i i know that we were expecting the pastor to uh

I know that we were expecting the pastor to address a lot of these issues, and I understand he's away on a medical emergency, but can you provide the board your title with the church?

to address a lot a lot of these issues and

Operations manager, owner's rep.

Great. And you've been working on this project now for some time, developing this project?

Yes, for a long time. I was the one that was in charge of renovating the church, and now we have the gift of doing this project.

Yes. And as I understand it, the vision of Pastor Jennings here is that these the rental here would essentially be there would be no charge or a very minimal charge, again, to reward church members their service over the years going backwards and also going forward,

that they would be providing service to the church in the community, both domestically and internationally as part of this project.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

So the number is under 500 to hopefully nothing.

That really is the hope.

And just that people understand, the people that are going to be living over there are going to be participating and continuing the mission.

So they will be traveling the world and helping in third world countries.

They will be helping the soup kitchen. They will be helping in the landscaping, you know, just the, and participating in every aspect of, of, of life.

I can understand like the missionaries living in the, in the building. I think my like specific question though has not quite yet been answered. How is rent going to be determined? Is there, is it a lease that's going to be signed? Is it a contract?

Oh, yes. Sorry. I apologize.

Income eligibility, what is the process to get to that decision?

The decision will be made by pastor of a number, and there will be a yearly lease that will be signed.

And the hope is 500 and under for these units.

Okay. So I guess, like, philosophically, these are being considered to be self-subsidized by the church.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

and then i think just as a like matter of comment um the plans don't really look like a senior

building like typical senior buildings when you want to look at similar senior buildings typically

come with like pretty standard amenities things like laundry on each floor things like common

areas that could be shared i don't really understand right now where like okay and

visitations could be when like people come to visit them so i think part of some of the reaction

that you're hearing from some of the board members who are familiar with seeing senior

housing buildings is that the plan is currently missing a lot of the like really standard

and typical aspects of senior buildings that are um generally seen in in the so let me let

me touch on that every unit actually has its own kitchen and has a washer and dryer so every unit

has uh it's basically a living space just like you would have a condo somewhere an apartment

And there is on the first floor, share space for yoga and gym and a gathering place for people to sit and do things together.

So there is all those things that you are touching on.

Is that in what's notated here is the overflow sanctuary off the entry hall?

Yes.

and then if you see as soon as you walk in previously about whether that in the dining

hall how they were going to be accessed um like you know after typical business hours for the

church and if those would be sort of open for so you would have access with a key fob

so basically the campus would be secure 24 7 under security and every single entrance to go

into let's just say private area or public area there will be a key fob to get in and there will

be locked doors so all the tenants will have access to those spaces but if someone from the

outside wants to come it would only have to be opened by security it's not like me and you could

come 24 7 and walk in there it would only be for tenants i understand i guess there's plans for

on-site 24-hour security yes okay and and also david we talked extensively about this the community

meeting. Cameras. We have some people waiting here. So is there anything else you want to offer

before we go to the public? Nothing further right now. I do want to reserve time for rebuttal and

also to talk about our satisfaction of both state and local hardship. Any other questions for the

board i just want to echo the uh concerns of a board member uh win about this whole facility as

this whole facility as a senior housing sort of facility.

a senior housing

I'm not sure whether it is, we didn't talk about this,

if there's some sort of assisted living kind of aspect of this,

or is it just seniors who have served the church in some capacity

and will be doing it in the future?

And that, of course, is a concern in terms of how this will operate.

as a living, a space for those members.

Yeah.

Other questions?

Questions or comments from our attorney?

Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

Questions and comments from the audience.

Sir, could you please state your name

and spell for the stenographer?

Make sure your microphone's on.

My name is David Payas.

Spell my last name?

Please, sir.

P-A-E-Z.

Do you swear or affirm that tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Yes, sir.

Sir, are you a neighbor?

Yes.

Please start your presentation.

First of all, I'd like to state that if you just heard what was said by the lawyer and the architect, they were not even on the same page.

They were doing a lot of backpedaling.

And that's also a big concern.

like you said this plan is not very thought out number one um a big concern with the nate with

the community uh let me start over we had that zoom meeting with the community i forget what

it's called and uh the rco meeting correct at that meeting uh by the way 98 of the people were

from that congregation but at that meeting i asked the same i asked the same question i said

are you going to charge these people to live there their answer was no we're doing it out

of the kindness of our heart right there he lost me uh we're all adults here there's no thing

there's nothing there's no free lunches you know and if it's too good to be true it's always too

good to be true. So now they're saying that they're going to charge these individuals.

Again, backpedaling. Mr. Pais, I have to interrupt. I said at that meeting,

it would be either heavily subsidized or no charge, and we continue to say the same thing.

Okay. Why don't we let him finish his testimony, Brent? You're going to have a chance to go back.

Okay. One of the biggest concerns with the community is the parking.

during covid it was horrible and it hasn't changed because we have a lot of investors

unfortunately that are buying up properties and instead of renting their single family homes

instead of renting them out to families they're turning them into rooms that they rent so you'll

have three rooms up to six rooms in one home so that's six individuals in one house with six

vehicles. So we are already congested. We can't find parking on our own blocks. We have to park

two, three blocks away from our homes. And PPA, you have to pay to park your vehicle on your

block. It was $35 last year. This year, it more than doubled, $75. And that doesn't even guarantee

to your parking spot. When they meet on Sundays, that generates a lot of congestion, and people

are losing their parking, obviously. But then they have these get-togethers that are two to

three days long, and they're using those buses to bus people in. We're talking, this building could

hold that church could hold a thousand people and they are also using the gymnasium for

those reasons as well that's too many people i'm sorry can i grab some water i'm a little nervous

all right

so so parkinson issue what are the other issues what are the other issues you're concerned with

taxes our taxes from have our real estate taxes have gone up twice in two years this year

everybody's paying 50 to 100 percent more this year um these families are struggling already

okay if this property is developed it's definitely going to raise our taxes

and also we have a problem also with believing what they're really they're what they're really

saying they're going to do with the property. In that parking space, there's commercial vehicles,

There's commercial vehicles, you've seen the picture, tractor trailers, car haulers, there are buses, you know, and they also installed a phase three electrical system.

you've seen the picture. Tractor trailers, car haul.

Now, if you don't know what that is, that's used for industrial use.

That's how much energy it pulls.

Why would you need a phase three industrial electrical system put in for what they're supposedly using these properties for?

Explain that to me.

When you develop a property, I can understand upgrading the electrical system, but to put a phase three electrical system, it pulls so much power that we have blackouts in the area.

Mr. Chairman, I have to object to relevance.

i i i think okay i want you to concentrate on what else about it and then we're going to move

on right what what else about the project do you not like um i heard parking i heard other issues

yes um you know we don't we get no community help from these people they do not outreach to any of

us okay and that's that's the problem also we feel like that building and the other buildings

will be better used as community outreach programs

like Concilio, Esperanza, Temple University.

If I list everything that these organizations

give back to the community, it's longer than my leg.

It would take quite a while, quite a bunch of your time.

But nobody even says a word when they purchase a property

and develop it because they give so much back to the community.

I'll give you an example.

There's a family that lives right across the street from that building.