But just to experience like -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I just want to get -- because we've gone through this all day and we've heard various and it kind of supports what I said earlier, there's no consensus on height. And you're speaking about buildings that were built in the 1700s and 1800s.
Yes, sir. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And then 219 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 you talk about us undoing the C-2 zoning classification, which was an act of City Council. So it isn't the first time this is something that we as elected officials have to deal with. The C-2 zoning, I don't know when that was in place. It's probably 30, 40 years ago.
I would imagine it had to do with the beginning of the master plan, that it was necessary in order to create the setting. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But things evolve and things change. So we're now dealing with current conditions as it relates to development of the City going forward. So it's not that we're doing something that hasn't already been done before, is my point.
I would assert, please, that the setting is what is fragile here. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We may disagree on that issue, but the fact of the matter is, what we are dealing with 220 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 as members of City Council is exactly what was dealt with 40, 50 years ago when it was first designated as C-2. So it is not something new. It is just a revisiting of an issue to look at current conditions and what we think may be appropriate for the site today and for future development. Thank you.
And we are revisiting an historic district. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Understood. Thank you.
Our next witnesses. Would the next three witnesses please approach the witness table. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
My name is Myra 221 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 Eskin. I'm a resident of Society Hill and a member of the Zoning and Historic Preservation Committee. I've learned a lot about historic preservation in my term on the Committee, and I have great reverence for the community and for this particular spot, which is very, very precious and unique. There's nothing else like it anywhere in the country. This is a phenomenal little corner of our precious world. And I just -- I've asked Councilman DiCicco this before and I'm going to ask it again. What's the rush? Why do you have to rezone at this particular moment? You have buildings here from the 17th century, 18th century. The Historic Commission has not had a chance to really review this and to weigh in, and I say, what's the rush? Put it off a little bit. We've had it for 300, almost 400 years. We can wait another six months or another eight months before 222 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 something gets developed there that's going to last hundreds of years. Thank you.
Our next witness, would you please identify yourself.
Madam President, members of Council. My name is Terry Champion. I will be very brief. I'll abbreviate my comments because so much has been said before.
I live on the first block of Pine Street at 129 and have since 1982, where I have raised my family. I am against this project because the proposed condominium building is far too large for all the reasons that have been given. And I think also it's inappropriate to ask us at this time what 223 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 height we would stipulate precisely, simply because we have never been asked that question formally. It's a ridiculous assertion. We have not entered into any kind of dialogue. Given the fact that the property developers have not received the support of the Society Hill Civic Association, all the majority of local taxpayer voters, residents, they have decided to request zoning variance directly from this City Council, so there is no longer any dialogue with the neighborhood at-large. We have collected a large number of signatures from the immediate neighborhood, and that does not include, does not include Society Hill Towers. So that it's within a three-block radius and we have over 250 signatures. These people are in the majority up in arms, and we would ask you, please, Councilman DiCicco, to consider very seriously what these people are saying. 224 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 We are, for that reason, strongly against this project. Thank you very much.
You're welcome. I've been sitting here and I think that I've heard on numerous occasions and times that there have been at least or community meetings. 11 Were you ever invited to one of the 12 meetings, and, if so, did you ever go to 13 a meeting so that the discussion of the 14 height could be discussed very openly 15 with everybody? 16
I have been to 17 the last ten meetings maybe or seven or 18 eight meetings.
And are you telling us that the height issue was never discussed?
The height issue was never addressed by the developers in the sense that they were willing to vary it. 225 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253
Well, I wasn't at any of the meetings, so I cannot dispute what you're saying, but I thought that originally the height was supposed to be, what, stories -- 18. 7
Okay. 10 Thank you. 11 Please identify yourself. 12
Good afternoon. My 13 name is Sally Smith, and I am actually 14 going to do something very different from 15 what everybody else has done today. I'm 16 actually going to follow the rule of the 17 one minute. 18
I live at 332 South Front Street, which is less than one half block from the property. I have lived in the Society Hill neighborhood for 36 years and I have raised my children here. I am a member of the Zoning and Historic 226 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 Preservation of the Society Hill Civic Association. I am against this project. I am against the rezoning of this area. It is too tall and out of character with our historic neighborhood. As a near neighbor, I am asking you to please vote no. Thank you. And I'd like to go along with what you asked Mr. Champion. I have been to probably 40 to 50 meetings. I have been to every meeting of the Civic Association, I have been to every Zoning and Historic Preservation meeting and every neighborhood meeting and the meetings that Councilman DiCicco attended. The height issue has been addressed from the very beginning. Every time there was a meeting, we were told the developers were going to come with new plans because the height was addressed as one of the biggest obstacles. Every time they came back to another meeting, they did not change the 227 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 height. The height actually was changed from and down to 15 the day before 4 the Civic Association was having a vote 5 on this project. So it was addressed for 6 many, many, many months. 7 Thank you. 8
Do we 12 have anyone else to testify? 13 (No response.) 14
Would 18 the developer please approach the witness table. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Good afternoon, gentlemen, again. 228 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 Clearly, in the testimony -- well, first of all, nothing is ever 100 percent in this process. The goal always is to try to find a common ground. And I want to commend Councilman colleague Frank DiCicco for the amendment that he is going to put forth, but it's important to me that you're real clear that your work is not done. You've heard the concerns raised by members of the community. The ask and really the expectation is that all of the specifics of this amendment are fully, completely addressed, number one. And, number two, that the community is kept abreast every single nanosecond of the way, because the goal ultimately is to minimize some legitimate issues that have been raised, and that's notwithstanding the enormous work that you've done already. So I put that on the record because it's clear to me that there's 229 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 still room for work, and the plan of development is the opportunity to do that so that we all end up at a different place that benefits the community as well as the effort that you put on the table for consideration today.
You're welcome. Do you have any comments that you'd like to make?
If I could jump in. William Martin, Fox Rothschild. We do appreciate the range of comment that we have heard from the community. We appreciate the folks that have come out and spoken on our behalf from the union group, from the community, from the business association, et cetera, and we welcome the opportunity to clarify and confirm issues such as the parking, such as how the restaurant is handled, 230 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 things like that. And the only point I want to make is that from our perspective, the plan of development as it addresses the structure and the density of the project, that's been presented and that's what we would hope is approved by the Committee and the Council. And there has been an awful lot of discussion of height and there was compromise by the developer, but to clarify, I would not anticipate that the plan of development impacts that aspect of the project. Beyond that, I don't think it's necessary for us to respond to every specific point. James has one thing he wants to touch upon, but we appreciate the patience of the Committee.
James Templeton, the architect. I just wanted to continue what Mr. Martin was saying, that there were 231 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 multiple design massings, and every meeting but one public meeting was the design changed. It was eight stories sometimes in the back and stories in 6 the front, and the design has constantly 7 been moving, and finally we ended up with 8 15 and 15. Another -- and six in the 9 back. 10 Another issue that's been 11 raised is about almost suggesting that 12 we've designed the building in a vacuum 13 and never discussed it with the 14 neighborhood or with any historic sort of 15 personnel or experts. We actually worked 16 very closely with members of the Zoning 17 and Historic Committee of Society Hill Civic Association on the design of this, and they had tremendous influence on the way this building looks. So we have been working from the beginning with them on the design and the aesthetics of this project.
Councilman DiCicco's track record is that. I mean, 232 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 the time that I've been here, extremely thoughtful and methodical in trying to address community concerns. I'm simply saying this hearing reveals that there's still much work to be done, and the plan of development becomes an opportunity to continue the work.
This will conclude our public hearing. We will now go into our public meeting, and the Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam President. I move that the amendment that has been circulated to 233 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253 Bill No. 080253 be approved. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that the amendment be approved. All in favor will indicate by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it, and the amendment is approved. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that Bill No. 20 080253 as amended be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation and a request for a rules suspension to allow first reading at our next Council session. (Duly seconded.) 234 4/16/08 - RULES - BILL 080253
All right. It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 080253 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation as amended; further, that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it. And this will conclude our public meeting. Thank you. (Applause.) (Committee on Rules adjourned at 2:00 p.m.) - - - 235 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on April 16, 2008, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)