COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE JOINT COMMITTEES OF THE WHOLE AND FINANCE - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Thursday, June 5, 2003 10:15 a.m. - - - Bill 030372 - An ordinance authorizing the Mayor, on behalf of the city, to file applications with the U.S. Department of HUD for a CDBG, et cetera Bill 030306 - Resolution approving the annual Program Statement and Budget for the expenditure of the NIT Bond Proceeds for FY '04 Bill 030429 - Resolution authorizing the RDA to use NTI bond proceeds to acquire certain properties under certain terms and conditions PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA, Chair COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL, Vice Chair COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK J. DICICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 2 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429
Good morning, everyone. This is a continued public hearing of the joint committees on the Whole and Finance regarding Resolution Nos. 030429 and 030306 and also Bill No. 6 030372. I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the titles.
Resolution No. 030429, a resolution authorizing the Philadelphia Redevelopment Authority to use NTI bond proceeds to acquire certain properties under certain terms and conditions; Resolution 030306, a resolution 14 approving the annual Program Statement and Budget for the expenditure of the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative (NTI) Bond Proceeds for FY 2004; Ordinance 030372, an ordinance authorizing the Mayor on behalf of the City to file applications with the Unites States Department of Housing and Urban Development for a community development block grant and to use Section 108 bond loan guarantee program; authorizing the housing director to file 23 applications with HUD to participate in the HOME Investment Partnership program and the emergency shelter grant program; authorizing the Housing 3 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 Director on behalf of the City to file an application with HUD for housing opportunities for Persons with AIDS grant; authorizing the Managing Director on behalf of the City to file an application or applications to obtain grants from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania under the Act of April 12, 1956, P.L. 1449, Section 4, as amended, to prevent and eliminate blight; and authorizing the Mayor, the Housing Director and the Managing Director to enter into all understandings and assurances contained in such applications and take all necessary action to accept the grants, all under certain terms and conditions.
Thank you very much. Do any of the Council members have any questions of the witnesses at the table? I'm sorry. We are going to have to have some order, please. Do any of the Council members have any questions of the witnesses at the table?
The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter. 4 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429
Thank you, Madam President. A couple things. Good morning, Miss Smith. Good morning, Mr. Hanna.
It's my understanding from the letter that we received I believe yesterday from the Mayor's chief of staff, Miss Wilkerson, that the administration has agreed to support the proposed amendment that was discussed on Monday with regard to three categories of programmatic funding that are technically in the CDBG plan to be funded in the original proposal through the use of NTI bond proceeds and that you have and we have discussed and gone through a process where we asked you if you don't think that the additional funding should come as a result of those proceedings, but if you can figure out within the categories and within proper use and within the legal guidelines a way to net increase $10 million, you will not take any money from another program or category to fund these initiatives and that actually the amendment here takes the budget from the original $106 million for FY '04 to now a new $116 5 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 million, which is in fact a $10 million increase. Is that correct?
And can you explain to us how you did that, and I am very serious and I know that you did hard work, but I'm most serious about establishing on the record that there will be no confusion later on about any other program in the CDBG budget or the entire CDBG application being, quote/unquote, shortchanged as a result of these changes and that all of the categories either are staying the same or some are being increased as a result of increased funding. So if you could walk us through the proposal which is to increase the neighborhood-based rental item in the CDBG a net additional $2-1/2 million, the BSRP Tier 2 program, a net additional $5 million, and the adaptive modification program, a net additional $2-1/2 million, if you could walk us through that, I would appreciate it.
Certainly. Thank you, Councilman. My name is Kevin Hanna and I serve as secretary of housing and neighborhood preservation 6 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 for the City of Philadelphia. The three line items that are to be affected are the neighborhood-based rental program, the basic systems repair program, BSRP, Tier 2, and the adaptive modifications program. Starting with neighborhood-based rental, what the administration proposes to have done would be to simply increase the amount of CDBG money dedicated to that particular line item by $2.5 million.
That is on , Section B, affordable rental housing. So that goes up, the CDBG column, for year 29, fiscal year 2004.
Okay. 7 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429
222. What we propose there is to decrease the amount of CDBG allotment from that particular program, essentially move it from -- that $2-1/2 million in CDBG, move it from BSRP to the neighborhood-based rental program, the one about which I just spoke, and then to fund or refund that particular program, first of all, to make up for the 2-1/2 million that we just took out with NTI bonds, put $2-1/2 million in there, so that brings it back to ground zero and then add an additional $5 million in NTI tax-exempt bond proceeds for a net increase of $5 million. So that program goes from $7,750,000 as proposed in the year 29 budget to $12,750,000, again, a net increase of $5 million. The third category, that of adaptive modifications would simply have a $2.5 million bond increase specifically from NTI tax-exempt bond proceeds. There is no touching of CDBG funds there. So the net increase is simply the $2-1/2 million 8 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 from NTI tax-exempt bond proceeds.
Okay. Let me just raise two other things. Thank you very much for the explanation. It's clear now that these are net increases, the funds have been moved around, but no 7 program is any less as a result of these changes and all three of these areas have received the net increase that we talked about. Now I want to just very quickly make sure that we have added our numbers correctly. As I have gone through this, I think there are at least two places where we need to change the figures on this plan. On it appears that we need to increase the total line from the 15 to 17,966; is that correct?
That would be the total $10 million increase. The grand total program activities line should be 250 million 159.
And then the 9 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 resource allocation line would be 250 million 159; is that correct?
It's the $10 million and the correction on the numbers, correct?
Let's talk about the last issue that was a part of the amendment that was put forward on Monday. That had to do with the child care health and safety fund. In reading the letter from the Mayor's chief of staff, Miss Wilkerson, she lays out that the administration opposes the use of NTI bond proceeds to fund the child care health and safety fund and later goes on and the reasons are basically the necessity for these bond proceeds to do a variety of things. I need to ask you a question about this statement though. Under the legislation the program was to use bond proceeds to: Eliminate blight, assemble land for redevelopment and engage in housing 10 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 preservation activities. In light of this, we do not support using NTI dollars to fund the child care health and safety fund. Now, it is my understanding that there has been a fair amount of flexibility in the use of NTI bond proceeds. For instance, the Center City District I believe just last week announced that it is engaged in a marketing and promotion campaign of six neighborhoods throughout Philadelphia. I know that two of them are in the district that I represent, Roxborough and Overbrook. I believe Mt. Airy is a third. I think Fox Chase is a fourth. Southwest Center City is the fifth and I believe Southwest Philadelphia is the sixth. How is it that the NTI proceeds can be used in a marketing campaign for a program, but we cannot use it for children? (Applause.)
I'm not sure what proceeds you used, and, you know, I mean from your table and on this side of the blue barrier we can have a wonderful discussion about the distinctions 11 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 between operating and capital and bond proceeds and whether they are taxable, tax-exempt or any other macerations that we want. What the public knows is NTI is a very large program, I think described many years ago. I think it's an umbrella. It's a framework. It has all kinds of elements to it, and if you are saying that it wasn't bond proceeds of NTI that were used, I don't know of any other proceeds out of NTI because NTI is a bond-funded program, so what proceeds were used to fund the marketing campaign, which I support, but how is it that they can't be used for the child care fund?
There were general funds that were allocated to support that initiative. Again, NTI can and does have other resources to support investment in neighborhoods, but I just wanted to clarify for the record --
How does NTI have any other resources? NTI is a bond program, isn't it? When we talk about the $295 million NTI program, isn't it all funded by bond proceeds?
The way we, the administration, talk about NTI, it is an initiative of the administration. It has a variety of 12 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 component parts and also different resources help us to achieve those objectives. So some objectives of the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative is achieved through the use of general funds. Some objectives are achieved through the use of money that may come from other federal and private sources. It is not just limited to the bonds. The bonds represent one source of funding for the initiative and, as you know, the initiative has several objectives.
Miss Smith, I do appreciate the explanation and I will do my best to stay up on all the lexicon and the various components. That, though, does not diminish my commitment and I think the commitment of many other Council members to support the child care health and safety fund. In front of us the other day were a couple things. There was a proposed transaction which happened to have been, in essence, a financing that was going to put $5 million into a child care health and safety fund. Some of us did not think that particular method was the right way to go, but we are committed to the child care health and safety 13 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 fund. Now what we have in front of us is a program that has an incredible realm of flexibility to do a wide variety of things, to use proceeds in ways that we have not seen in the past, and so I cannot now back up and say we are not going to support the child health and safety fund because of a variety of quirks and vagaries of how program proceeds are going to be used. They are being used in a variety of ways, all of which are good. So I will ask my colleagues and then members can decide what they want to do because I am going to put forward an amendment for the $5 million for the child care health and safety fund and then we will just take it from there, but I can't back away from that. (Applause.)
I believe Councilman Goode has a point of information.
I would like to ask Councilman Nutter whether he actually had a proposal for a child care health and safety fund before he decided to kill the library deal. 14 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429
I'm sorry, Councilman. I didn't hear the whole question.
I want to ask you whether you actually had a proposal for a child care health and safety fund before you decided to kill the library deal.
That's a simple question, whether you actually had a proposal for a child care health and safety fund before you decided to kill the library deal proposed by the administration.
Let me respond this way, Councilman. As I contemplated what my actions would be with regard to the library transaction, I was well aware that the child care health and safety fund was the funding source, and as we have gone through that process, I knew that I needed to have some proposal to seek to replace those funds. So that's why I also put forward the bill last week to put the right capital funds for the library because I believed under the circumstances it was not enough to be against something and not have an alternative. 15 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 So I think the proposal for an actual amendment I probably started working on over the weekend prior to the hearing. I think our hearing was on Monday for NTI and put that amendment forward at least on Monday, but it has been on my mind since the controversy around the library proposal evolved last week.
Since it was your decision to kill the library deal proposed by the administration, you had to find a way --
Since you decided to kill the library deal proposed by the administration, you had to find a way to make the child care health and safety fund whole. You chose this method. This is not the only method that can be used. Just like the financing mechanism for the library was not the only mechanism that could be used. Whether it is the best mechanism or not, it is not the only mechanism that can be used to fund a child care health and safety fund; is that correct?
You are absolutely right, Councilman. There are many ways to do that. 16 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429
So just a point of information. Is the administration prepared to find a way to make the child care health and safety fund whole?
We don't have a specific proposal, but we are willing to look at this issue. We again feel that the use of NTI bond proceeds under this circumstance is not appropriate. There may be resources both within the private sector that also can be brought to bear on this issue.
The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco for a point of information.
The child safety issue is one that could possibly be referred to the Department of Commerce since it is a revolving loan fund. Funds do come through PCDC and other departments of the commerce that go to businesses. These day cares are a business and you would look to find a set of at least part of the money there until 17 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 you find all of the money from the Commerce Department because I see it as an economic development piece.
Again, what the administration plans to do is to work very closely with all of the departments and we also believe there may be opportunities within the private sector to establish a revolving loan fund to support this type of need within the community.
Miss Smith, let me ask one other question. When the proposed increase to $5 million was announced back in January for the child care health and safety fund, was the proposed financing that was before us earlier in the week, was that anticipated at that time to be the funding source for the $5 million increase?
-- in that I am not familiar with the library financing and the conversations that have been going back and forth, so I cannot speak to that. 18 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429
Okay. Let me ask you one other question, and if it is inappropriate, you will just tell me. Are you aware of any other proposed financing mechanism that has been discussed or any other -- maybe it is not a financing mechanism, but any other source of funds that have been discussed within the administration with regard to the child care health and safety fund?
When this question was raised on Monday, I reached out to a community development financial institution in the City, the reinvestment fund, that has been involved in financing day care facilities and that is one possibility to maybe look at creating funds.
No, I meant City fund. Are you aware of any proposal for the use of City funds, not outside funds, but what would represent our commitment?
Again I feel that I cannot speak to that issue because I have not been involved in it. I can only tell you what I have done personally on Monday in response to this issue being raised, looking for what could be other possible sources, particularly I think the opportunity to 19 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 bring the private sector into this issue as a resource, since we are looking at a revolving loan fund.
The Chair at this time recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
In your testimony or in somebody's testimony you talked about the proposals for targeted basic systems repair program. I noticed that ten organizations have responded to your RFP to provide the service. Would those funds only be used by those organizations in their neighborhoods? Can individuals from other neighborhoods access targeted basic systems repair money if they don't live in a targeted area or area where you have one of those groups?
An individual who may not live in a target basic system repair program can apply for resources under the basic system repair program, Tier 2. That's a citywide program that operates citywide.
Which is citywide, 20 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 basic --
The basic system repair program, which we added the additional money to, is citywide. It was geographically targeted to work in a defined geographic area.
Yes, it is. The targeted does have income restrictions. I believe it is up to 80 percent.
The targeted basic systems repair program is also capped. Since it was a grant program, it was also income limited to 80 percent, a medium.
What program is provided for those people who I think we talked about did not meet -- did not have -- could not meet the income guidelines?
Again, we believe we can work closely, and one of the principles behind that program is for the community-based organization to work one-on-one with individual homeowners to get a 21 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 sense of their entire need and their entire issues, and there may be opportunities for a loan if the person is over 80 percent of income and particularly with the new loan products involved.
For instance, I'm interested in the northwest section of Philadelphia, and Mt. Airy USA appears to be one of the groups. Have they defined their targeted area of where they would service and would that cover the northwest and looking at the targeted systems program and in trying to reach out to a broader spectrum of the community, Philadelphia community, was any consideration taken, anything taken into consideration to look at what parts of the City are being served?
Yes. We tried to make sure that this was targeted to areas where individuals -- we could leverage the resources, where there was low vacancy on the block. I can get back to you with the specific boundaries of both the Mt. Airy USA program as well as the Korean CDC program, which I believe is in your district. That's in Olney. I just don't have the exact boundaries that they chose to target in my mind. 22 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429
I would like to see those boundaries. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. I simply wanted to underscore Councilwoman Tasco's recommendation with regard to the health and safety fund. My office has actually been in discussions with the Commerce Department close to a year ago suggesting that the Commerce Department find some dollars for the health and safety fund, so I needed to underscore a recommendation to see that those discussions have actually started. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam President. Is there any limit at all to the NTI program? You know, the dollar figures have changed so, I thought we had finally agreed it was a $300 million program, but apparently any and all 23 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 resources can be added to that apart from the loan fund? We voted the loan fund I thought because we felt there was no other way of supporting it, but now there apparently are other ways, so I would like to know how much of the money, how much more than $300 million is available for NTI? Is it the whole City budget? Can we call it a $6 billion program? It might be the best use of all the money. (Applause.)
Councilman Cohen, there are several objectives which we have articulated for NTI and we do look at other resources to achieve those objectives and in some instances it is redeploying or reallocating resources within the general budget. As you know, this Mayor is very much committed to investing in neighborhoods, so the abandoned car removal program. We consider how to fulfill NTI's objective to eliminate blight. That program is funded out of the general fund. So, again, NTI is an initiative of this administration which represents the pledge to eliminate blight, to create opportunity for development, and to improve the delivery of City services, and we are trying to bring all of the 24 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 resources to bear in the City to support those primary objectives.
Who determines the boundary lines of what is a blight program? It seems to me that if anybody else proposes something and the administration doesn't agree, they rule it out or find some technicality to rule it out. (Applause.)
Now, we have either a government of laws or we have a government of people, and I thought we passed legislation to set limitations or at least set guidelines and then to define those guidelines. So I'm trying to find out who is going to decide what blight is and whether an appropriation can be funded from monies other than the loan funds.
The senior officials in the Mayor's administration which includes representatives from the Managing Director's Office, from the Redevelopment Authority, my colleague here, Secretary Hanna, myself, the senior members of the Mayor's administration are working together as a team looking at these issues and participating in the decision-making around them. 25 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429
And what's the role of City Council? Do we have anything to say, or do you just say no automatically when Council proposes something because it didn't originate with the Mayor's office? When we present a proposal that we have fielded from community organization, we think it's good to present it, if it doesn't originate with the administration, does it mean automatically it is not part of the blight program?
No, that's not the case, Councilman Cohen. We have been working very closely with District Council people identifying properties for acquisition.
Do you know there are seven Council members that are not District Council people? Do you work with them?
Yes, we are working with at-large Council. We have invited people to briefing. We take information and suggestions routinely. There's a lot of requests at times and sometimes when we prioritize things, it takes a little bit longer to get to some requests than we had hoped, but we are committed to working with the Council. We consider the City Council of 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 Philadelphia an important and key partner in this initiative. We cannot accomplish the objectives of this initiative without the support of the Council.
There are all kinds of partnerships. It seems to me that you think Council and you think the same of community organizations, if they are partners, they are very, very minor partners. They have a right to be heard, but not necessarily listened to or paid any attention to, and that's what concerns us. Take on the child care and child safety program. Do we have to build an expansion of the Convention Center in order to find a way to get $5 million for child care and child safety, or are children's lives important enough for the City to spend $5 million and make that commitment now? (Applause.)
As I stated, the administration is committed to finding the resources to support this type of initiative.
Sometimes -- if we are successful in bringing maybe some private sector 27 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 resources to add to the pot, we probably won't have to take money from other items, but when you have a defined pot of money, sometimes we have to do that.
Well, I don't think City Council can live with that. I think we've got to know that kids are an important part of life. Human beings count. Poor people, working people deserve consideration in addition to developers. (Applause.)
I think there is a lot of question as to what the priorities of this administration are, and this kind of legislation helps define it and your approach to it helps define it. That's why we are wanting to be so precise. We suddenly get stunned when we learn that there are new sources of money because when the original loans were requested we were of the opinion that you had to have the loan money otherwise you had nothing to work with. So we provided it. Once we provide it, well, we now learn there are other sources that can be used, and that is very disconcerting. I think it ought to be clear that City Council is a full partner and that the people of Philadelphia are the most important partners in 28 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 everything we do. (Applause.)
You're welcome. Are there any other questions or comments? The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you, Madam President. Good morning. I just want to do a followup to Councilwoman Tasco's question regarding targeted basic systems repair program. Will there be some potential for -- and I know that we only get this money once a year -- the expansion of this type of resources into neighborhoods? I just realized that one of the groups that I thought had a good chance of being funded in a particular section of my district that really needs some resources actually didn't get their proposal in on time. They were ten minutes late unfortunately. Or is there enough money, enough additional dollars, in the basic system program, not the targeted, that would make up the void for that particular neighborhood? 29 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429
For FY '04 we actually have an additional 1 million that we wanted to use to support a second wave, particularly in areas where we are doing significant development activity, so that is for FY '04, and, of course, each year we can come back and allocate. That was one of the objectives, additional funds. In the meantime, if there's individuals with this increase in the citywide program, that is not geographically restricted at all.
So, you know, what I would like to do is talk about this later, do a followup discussion. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.
Madam President, I understand in this room is the Republican candidate for Mayor, Sam Katz. I want to suggest that we invite our Mayor, Mayor John Street, to come up here and maybe we can have an impromptu debate on the subject of child care. (Applause.)
We welcome the 30 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 attention of all the Mayoral candidates because we think if they listen to the people in the community they will understand better the problems of Philadelphia and we often have urged the Mayor of the City to come to these meetings so he can hear firsthand what we hear in City Council, so we are very pleased that -- (Applause.)
So I would like to urge the president of City Council to invite the Mayor of the city to come and join the Republican candidate so they will both have equal access to the information required in the Mayor's office. Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee regarding the two witnesses at the table? Seeing none, I believe we have a witness who would like to be heard, Deborah Anderson. Is Miss Anderson in this room or in the anteroom?
Yes, I am. 31 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429
Please approach the witness table, if you will. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good morning. My name is Deborah Anderson Johnson, and I appreciate the opportunity to speak today. I'm a home owner occupant of 4717 North Hutchinson Street, and for anyone that is unaware, it is one of the 957 houses on a 17-square block in the Logan section of Philadelphia also known as the sinking homes of Logan. In the early 1900's through 1910 the then City administration of Philadelphia set up this disaster by ordering all coal ash in the City to be hauled to a specific site. A contract was awarded to the Vare brothers. The coal ash was transported in utility cars to 9th Street and the Boulevard. The land was owned by real estate developers who happened to be friends with the then Mayor. The marshy flood plain along Wingohocking Creek was filled with as much as 40 feet of ash. By 1920 homes were developed. Many of the houses were built on 40 feet of fill consisting 32 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 primarily of ash and cinder without proper anchoring of the structure. The houses built on this unstable fill began settling almost as soon as they were constructed. There was a political scandal surrounding the construction of these homes and is detailed in a book by Harold E. " The settling foundations caused collapses and gas leaks. , there were three blasts that rocked the Boulevard. It was later determined there was a hairline fracture of a gas main beneath 9th Street and the Boulevard that triggered the blast that set fire to five homes on the 800 block of Roosevelt Boulevard. There were no 17 fatalities. There were only minor injuries. After the investigation Logan's little secret was no longer a secret, at least to some. Logan residents began to notice that something was wrong with the then swank homes that a Philadelphia Mayor resided in at one point. Logan then became a melting pot with working-class African-Americans as neighbors. In 1984 the structural problems were 33 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 more obvious. The City administration commissioned a study from architect and city planner Gray Smith, who concluded the builders had used unstable soil to fill the valley of the Wingohocking Creek. Gray Smith warned the administration of possible broken utility lines including gas, sewer and water and recommended a more complete geotechnical analysis. The administration disregarded this recommendation and did nothing. Two years later, February 1986, a broken gas main caused an explosion on the 4600 block of North 10th Street, again no fatalities. The administration claimed this was their first knowledge of the Logan fiasco. Panic set in. It would take another seven months for the administration to get the necessary engineering report. The study, which looked at an area encompassing 950 houses, found that the unstable soil was actually ash and cinder whose depth depended on where in the creek valley a house was located. While some were fairly stable, the study identifies 62 homes as dangerous or imminently dangerous. This was late August 1986. The City 34 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 offered temporary shelter to homeowners. Suddenly in September the residents were told they had to be out of their homes in hours. Confusion, fear, 5 misinformation started a pattern in Logan that 6 continues to this date. 7 Gray Smith Associates and a group of 8 residents known as Concerned Citizens of Logan knew 9 the boundaries of the 17 blocks in the Logan 10 triangle designated in November 1986 by the 11 administration never made sense. The administration 12 created this by issuing a map with a triangle 13 superimposed on it; hence, the Logan triangle. If 14 this was addressed to encompass the 62 properties 15 identified, it would have been a much smaller area 16 and it would have definitely had an irregular shape. 17 The triangle simply encompassed the three major 18 streets at approximately 1000 properties. 19 1988.
Gray Smith attempted to retract 20 this designation, but it fell on deaf ears, and here 21 is a quote from Gray Smith to me, The one violent 22 act that was committed in this process was the 23 drawing of that boundary around the Logan triangle. 24 It was unjustified. It was technically incorrect, unquote. 35 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 From this point on no one retracted and no one turned back. Not one leader, not one person had the nerve to stand up and say "Stop. " In 1988 Lippincott Engineers identified the most dangerous threat to the Logan community was water. Once again the City did nothing. It would be too expensive to underpin the properties that could be salvaged. It was given that 62 properties had to be demolished and the infrastructure had to be stabilized. The same sewer and pipes made of cast iron and clay that was put in Logan when it was developed in the 1920's, which had a 25-year life expectancy, had deteriorated. There were cobwebs when the drains were open, proving no water had passed through for a while. The water, the enemy to the Logan community, was washing away the foundation of ash and cinder. But this community and the residents of this community were and continue to be treated in this manner and completely disrespected. There was no moratorium to stop the sale of property. The administration and every subsequent administration states "We cannot stop the transfer of properties in 36 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 Logan. " The one thing the administration was able to stop was the transfer of federal relocation rights. You see, the rights to transfer worthless property was okay, but the right to relocation was nontransferable and there was and is no threat of being sued. " If you purchased after 1986, you are labeled ineligible and are not entitled to assistance. The property I purchased was one of the 954 properties identified in 1986. The owner and realtor that sold it to me were aware, and when I went to settlement in 1992, there was a copy of the geotechnical report that was filed with the title in City Hall, which I did learn later on, and I have been told I initialed it. At settlement I initialed a lot of papers, but if anyone chooses to believe that I read a geotechnical survey during settlement and understood it and knew what I was getting into, that's your prerogative, just as it is my prerogative to believe the administration then and all subsequent administrations knew people were being swindled and looked the other way because it was a trump card in place. The ineligible resident 37 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 had located the eligible resident and was not entitled to any compensation. And I would just like to know why would the eligible resident sell their property to me for $24,000 when they were eligible for approximately at that time $50,000? Something is not right here. I have been labeled a troublemaker, a rebel rouser, a speculator. You know, I bought this property so I could make some money at a later date. )
And I'm also ineligible. There is one thing I will admit readily to being, and that is absolutely naive. I was naive enough to believe that I had stumbled onto something that elected officials did not know. I honestly believed that if I took this information to the correct entities it would be addressed. No way. There is no way that -- you know, it was just horrendous, and the abuse the residents went through is a whole other issue that I'm not even going to address. I was naive enough to believe that no one else knew and the only thing I learned was that they already knew and there was no one able to or willing to stop the madness. It didn't stop. 38 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 The administration created the Logan Assistance Corporation, also known as LAC. I fought to get on the board of this corporation, you know, but I kind of got ostracized because how dare I take information back to residents, how dare I talk to the media about things I learned from being on the board. You know, when I went on the board, it was to be representation for the residents that were there so, therefore, I was never going to stop taking information back, you know. And I went to other organizations for help. You know, I went to the NAACP. I went to PIA, HUD, OHCD, come on, the whole alphabet, we went through, and when it was all said and done, it was right back in Logan. Once the photo opps for politicians running at election time was over it went right back to business as usual and you were just a Logan resident, deal with it. State Representative John Perzel secured $1-1/2 million for Logan. Unfortunately for Logan, Wissinoming happened. Later it was reduced to $750,000. Later it was reduced to zero. From my understanding and what I was told, the whole kitty was spent in Wissinoming. You see, the City was 39 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 liable for the community's blight in Wissinoming, but Logan was much more complex. It was on a larger scale, et cetera. Senator Santorum made a federal grant available for the five ineligible residents that were still in Logan at that time. The current administration made a decision to not apply for the grant because it would open all of the flood gates for all the ineligibles that left and had never been compensated. " It is an insult. It is a lie. The City not only had knowledge, the City created this fiasco by permitting the construction of homes at a site they knew the city's coal ash had been dumped at for years. June 3, 2003, and I just happened to tune in to the testimony that was going on here, and it reminded me a lot of the public hearings I read 40 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 about from December 1986 with the Logan residents. You know, June I decided to come down to City Hall 4 and I stopped at my councilperson's office and just asked what was the status, was anything going on regarding Logan. Unfortunately, the person I had to talk to was not available and I did fill out a form requesting information about the status of myself, as I am one of two residents left on Hutchinson Street and maybe there are five residents still currently living in the couple of blocks that still stand. At the recess I introduced myself to Mr. " Mr. Wetzel then introduced me to Mr. Cox of urban renewal programs and asked him to assist me, and I was given Mr. Kunz's card and he told me when he would be back in the office yesterday. I called him, left a message. " You know, my property is listed for 41 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 acquisition and was anybody going to say anything to me? Did I have a right to know? Where do I go from here? You know, there are a lot of questions and, yes, I have no problem at all directing them to RDA, as I was informed to do by Mr. Thomas, the president of the Logan Assistance Corporation.
And they, the Logan Assistance Corporation, not only still exists, I'm a board member, even though there hasn't been a meeting in over two years. I really couldn't tell you what goes on, but I do check in periodically to see if there is any information or any decisions that were made and that was exactly why I asked to be put on the list to testify. I missed the testimony, as I now understand it today, regarding this. It was earlier this year. And, no, I did not have knowledge of it, or I would have been here just as I am today. I just feel as though I should have been notified not only as a board member but as a homeowner occupant for a property that is being taken. )
And I would personally just like to ask -- nobody -- I don't think anybody 42 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 is against redevelopment or blight elimination. It is just the whole issue. As elected officials, one thing I would request in moving forward is to think not as properties, not to look at it as Logan consisting of 954 houses, properties, land. That was over 950 families. It was people, feelings. Your life is just thrown into turmoil. (Applause.)
And consideration should be given, and, you know, it just kind of makes you suspicious and just to wonder if it is so good, if this plan is so good, why does it have to be so secretive? (Applause.)
Thank you very much. Any questions or comments of the witness?
Thank you again. Do we have any other witnesses that would like to testify? Please approach the witness 43 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 table. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
My name is Rosemary Kuvas. I'm a resident at 2100 North 2nd Street, that block, and I am the director of the Community Leadership Institute, and I stood before some of you on Tuesday. I was not planning to speak today, but the person who was going to speak today has gone because she thought that she could not speak. We just discovered when this person spoke that we could. This is what has happened. In our neighborhood we had the American Street Empowerment Zone Urban Renewal Area. We discovered that a block that in our terms was solid, safe, beautified, was taken before any of the residents knew what was happening. They got no notice. This is probably a law you passed in this Council in December of 2001. The residents of the 2100 block of North Bodine, which is my neighborhood, began to get letters that they had to move in January. Right now the person who left here today is the daughter of Don Ramon Hernandez, who is at 2150 North Bodine. Don Ramon today, his home is fit to be in Elfreth's 44 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 Alley, and so are the homes that are surrounding it, the five others. Right now those homes have been vandalized around him. As the person before me spoke, they are not just houses. Don Ramon and his family lived there 40 years. His mother owned the house. He lived there. He is raising his granddaughter. His daughter lives there and he is raising his granddaughters as well. These homes are not houses to us. They are our home. I live on my block 30 years. There are people here who represent a total of a hundred years of having lived in our neighborhood. That was the first taking, was Don Ramon. They promised Don Ramon -- the RDA promised Don Ramon the world and he is in the process of negotiation thanks to the Councilman, who is going out of his way to help. However, Don Ramon is now living still in his home because he is waiting for homes to be finished. He is susceptible to being criminalized, vandalized and killed. He is in a bad state of being personally and healthwise because of this process. All of this relates to bills before you related to NTI and the budget. We are not against NTI. We are against the taking of viable homes in 45 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 viable neighborhoods. (Applause.)
The second taking. So Don Ramon still does not have a firm answer. He keeps getting strung along in terms of an alternative site for his home. He is now in danger, in personal physical danger, to say nothing of the health, of being hurt because he is alone. He is a very stubborn man. All the letters, by the way, were in English and most of the letters said you have 90 days to move. Those people who moved before him were frightened into moving, and his daughter, were she here, would testify to that fact because she made it very clear to us here. They were frightened into moving. Yes, they moved, but they were frightened into moving because they didn't think they have a choice. The second taking. We found that out by accident, scattered site. This was not a whole block. Two houses on Cecil B. Moore. Two houses on American. Two houses on North Phillip. We know what this means. Bit by bit you are eking away at our community. It has taken us decades, decades, to 46 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 build our community safe. We have relationships. We are a family. We have many generations of family that live on these blocks, and the law -- we came here Tuesday. There were of us. By the time 6 that our ordinance came around, there were probably 7 ten of us, and that's when we spoke. 8 You passed -- some of you in committee 9 passed this ordinance on Tuesday. We want you to 10 know that we do not accept this. We will fight 11 this. 12 (Applause.) 13
We have a right to stay in 14 our homes. You do not have a right with NTI or with 15 the budget or with anything else to take our homes 16 and we want to tell you that. We didn't vote 17 before, but we vote now. 18 (Applause.) 19
And we will vote in 20 increasing numbers, and those of you that care, 21 those of you that care about your constituencies, 22 I'm not sitting here as a representative of any 23 organization necessarily. I'm a resident. 30 years 24 it took us living through drugs, through drive-by 25 shootings, through bombs, through the blight that we 47 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 had to create the kind of neighborhood that now these programs want to take because it's viable. We made it viable, not organizations. We made it viable. (Applause.)
Now, you passed the bills yesterday. I'm speaking specifically of 030303. That is not on your table today but will be on your table next Thursday. I want you to know that the press release that we passed out, of which we have more copies, somebody west of Bart Street got ahold of it and called us last night. They have a store that they have owned for two years. It is a money-making store, grocery store. They have apartments above. They own it. I saw the deed. They bought it. They have paid their taxes. They are Dominicans and they don't sell drugs. They own a store that is money-making and it is on the list. They didn't know it until someone gave them our press release and they saw their address on the list. How do you explain this? How do you explain that this business, because of the vote on Tuesday, is scheduled to be taken? Those folks, we sent them to their 48 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 councilperson. I didn't know who it was. They are at, I think, 1445 or 1435 North 19th Street. I don't know which of you is in charge of that area, but that family is in trauma like Dan Ramon. He has lost weight. He looks a mess. He is having serious physical and health problems. Now, I want you to think about this when you try to take our homes and our lots. The reason, by the way, we were here on Tuesday is because on my block, my neighbor's house, whose family has been there for 40 years, was listed for taking as an empty lot. It is a solid home with inhabitants. It was taken off the list because we caught it in time. We told the resident, who came to our office, the Community Leadership Institute, to go and talk to his Councilman. The Councilman moved quickly and took it off the list with the Redevelopment Authority. But you need to understand that the Dominican doesn't know that much English, the one who lives on 19th Street. He didn't have this advanced notice, and so what happens to the many, many people that are on your list like this? We will not be moved. That is a saying that was old and it still stands. We live there. We are going 49 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 to keep our neighborhoods and we want you to help us. (Applause.)
Now, we want a stop, a stop, a stop to the taking of homes. I don't care how you do it, what you do with the budget, what you do with NTI. We're not against NTI. NTI is good. The Mayor at least poured some money into the neighborhoods, and we are appreciative of that, but don't take our homes to build businesses of people that don't even live there. Fair housing. (Applause.)
We respectfully ask this of you and there will be more of us that come, but we respectfully ask this of you and hope that we will have a response next Thursday to say no more homes, occupied homes where residents want to stay, will be taken. (Applause.)
If they want to move, fine, but we do not want to move. Thank you all very much.
Thank you very much. Are there any other witnesses that would like 50 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 to testify? Please approach the witness table. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good morning. My name is Sharon Ward. I am the child care policy director for Philadelphia Citizens for Children and Youth. I have a brief statement. Thank you Council President Verna and Councilwoman Blackwell and members of the joint committee. I'm here today to urge your support for the amendment to reallocate $5 million of NTI demolition funds to support the child care health and safety fund. At a public hearing yesterday the finance committee members heard what I hope was compelling evidence about the need to make child care programs better and safer environments for 50,000 children who attend them every day. At that time finance committee members expressed support for the value of investing in children and child care. I can't begin to express to you what that meant to the child care community, more than 1500 child care programs here in the City, and the child care teachers who are educating our children, toiling away in neighborhoods across the 51 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 city for very little pay and very little recognition and for the parents who struggle in all of our neighborhoods to balance work and family and just want a safe, affordable, quality program for their children. Nonetheless, while embracing the goals, finance committee members did not support the mechanism that was proposed to make this dream a reality. We supported, embraced and fought for the administration's proposal to sell the library in order to support this fund. We appreciate Mayor Street's continued leadership on this issue from the moment he took office; nonetheless, we believe that you have before you a viable alternative proposal that we would urge you to support. There are three reasons that we urge you to do so. The first is and I hope that the need has been established, and if anyone would like to ask any questions about that, I would be happy to do so. Second, an investment in child care facilities is completely consistent with the Council and the administration's goals of neighborhood revitalization. Child care programs do not exist in 52 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 Center City. 95 percent of child care programs are in our neighborhoods serving those working families. Third, the funds allocated for the child care health and safety fund would be matched by private philanthropic dollars. It seems like a good investment to spend $5 million when you can come to the table with $5 million more. And let me state that those dollars have been pledged to match the City dollars and without them we don't believe that they will exist. I wanted to address the issue of having a health and safety fund that acknowledges the financial need of child care providers. We appreciate the efforts of Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown who has fought for every dollar for this and we recognize there have been efforts to bring loans to these programs. Let me point out that child care teachers in family child care homes make less than $10,000 a year. Child care teachers earn 40 percent of what their counterparts earn at every education level. Only 20 percent of child care teachers have health insurance. We are talking about poor people in our communities who are doing a vital service and 53 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 we have argued that these funds should be grants because child care providers cannot afford loans, and they can by raising fees to parents, which means that parents can't afford quality child care programs. It is a dilemma we have all been forced to deal with. The proposal to reallocate $5 million from the demolition fund to support the child care health and safety fund we believe is a worthwhile one. NTI's acquisition, demolition and property acquisition policy has two goals. The first is to support affordable housing development and the second is for approved commercial and economic development activities that create job opportunities for low income individuals.
Well, I can tell you that child care programs do that. They are commercial enterprises in our communities that are at risk of deterioration, blight and closure. When we invest in them, we create viable jobs for low and moderate income individuals in the very communities where we seek to undertake economic development. The child care health and safety fund will help existing unlicensed providers, especially those in church-based programs, to become licensed. 54 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 This will bring in additional dollars as we will enable additional families to draw down state subsidy so they can support families attending child care and keep the costs low. Finally, child care programs are an unacknowledged but an important economic engine of economic development. Recent economic impact studies have shown that if you look at child care as an industry it is often in the top five of private businesses and job creators in a community. We don't normally look at them as an aggregate, but they provide a tremendous amount of jobs and a tremendous amount of economic development, as they allow parents to work. There is an agreement in principle that this is a good thing. There is momentum. The administration, we believe the Council, and the philanthropic community thinks this is a good idea and this is a good time to do it. We need to seize the momentum and to fulfill the promise. We fully understand there are many competing priorities and we have heard of several of them today. Frankly, reallocating funds from the demolition portion of NTI seems to be the thing that will do the least 55 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 harm, the most good, and will enable Council to support the important priorities that you have such as affordable housing for people in the City of Philadelphia, which is really necessary. )
Let me finally say is that the way we view this is that the priorities that the Mayor has set forth in his budget address, refinancing and renovating the library, a child care health and safety fund and renovations to the schools in order to ensure that they are the focal point of the community are priorities that we continue to support and believe that this Council supports as well. We believe there is a viable proposal in front of you to do so and we would urge you to support it. Thank you. (Applause.)
Thank you very much. There is a question for the last witness. Would you return? And let me say also that we have had several days of testimony and we want people -- we are happy to recognize people who have not spoken 56 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 before, but we do not think it is fair that at this point we have people who have spoken two or three times before to speak. So we say that for anyone in line who has already spoken. Thank you.
Good morning. I don't think anyone within this Council and the administration takes issue with anything that you have said in terms of child care facilities being businesses and being key economic development components, particularly within community economic development. I think the issue at hand is actually the source of funding for the child care health and safety fund. The first proposed mechanism was the library deal. Now there is a second proposed mechanism because some people chose to kill the library deal, but in testimony this morning there was talk about private sources of funding. For the record, what is the best source of funding? Would you prefer public funding or would you prefer private funding, particularly in light of the fact that we are talking about the child care health and safety fund as being a loan fund and the City by charter cannot loan funds. The only thing we can do 57 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 is actually invest public dollars to try to spur private investment, and if we spur that private investment by having reached out to a group like the reinvestment fund that is willing to do the lending, that is already, I believe, probably the biggest child care financing entity within the City of Philadelphia, as well as the biggest financier of charter schools, why not choose private funding with limited public resources over public funding?
I think a couple of things, Councilman Goode. First, the City has already been investing about $300,000 in this fund on an annual basis, this would be, in essence, an increase of that. I think, secondly, the Mayor has done a really good job of coming forth and saying I'm willing to put $5 million on the table and has gotten commitments from --
My question was the use of public investment as opposed to spur private investment, the use of that $300,000 fund to spur private investment in a place like the reinvestment fund works. Why not let it work rather than use public tax dollars over private investment? 58 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429
The public dollars would leverage the private dollars. The $5 million --
The public dollars have already been spent, may have already leveraged the private dollars.
I think that they have. I mean I think you're right. What this is is the first step on what we hope is a reverse pyramid. Those dollars, the Mayor has already gotten a commitment for $5 million from private foundations to match those dollars. In addition, there's some talk about the state also coming in and making some contributions. Finally, it enables us to license more child care programs and bring in more state monies so the public dollars bring in the other ones.
I guess the simple question is, if we can use all private funding, now the library deal has been killed, now if we can reach out to the reinvestment fund and replace those public dollars with private dollars, isn't that the best use?
I think we can't. I think the private funds are contingent on the public funds 59 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 and the child care programs that can afford loans do so through the reinvestment fund.
You think that the private funds are contingent upon the public funds? How would you make that assessment? Have you talked to the people who -- how would you make that assessment?
My understanding of the arrangements for the child care health and safety fund is that the City would create $5 million and the Mayor has gotten commitments based on that commitment from private foundations to put additional dollars in.
So this is actually the administration's commitment from the private sector, which they are better prepared to speak on than you are.
Thank you. Just a moment, please. Councilman Cohen, did you want to ask this witness a question, or did you want to make a comment?
I wanted to make a 60 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 brief comment to Miss Ward. I think she presents a very interesting case. I don't think she really has to. I don't think she is the person or her organization is the organization that has the responsibility for ultimate decisions, but she has assumed a burden she doesn't have to. It seems to me she has a wonderful case about children, about the need to give them the right kind of care which private resources at the moment can't resolve and she has a strong case just on the need itself and I wanted to commend her for presenting it so eloquently and to congratulate her on her willingness to get involved in the City's finances. If you can understand them, my hat is off to you because after all of these years it seems to get more confusing each year and I'm not sure that the facts are confusing, but I think those who control the facts think it is in their interest to confuse the picture to eliminate any discussion about whether they are right or wrong, but you go on your way. You have a wonderful case, and the government has a responsibility to find a way to give the proper support to the children. And with your kind of support and the support of the people in this 61 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 room here today I think we are going to succeed. Thank you very much.
My name is Carolyn Smith and I'm representing the people in the model cities areas and the Cecil B. Moore areas. We have some concerns about the bill that is up for affordable housing. When you look at the report for City Council and you see the heading, it states those councilpersons that are for affordable housing and those councilpersons that are not for affordable housing. What we have found out as residents is that this is just a caption, but we do not believe that Council in full is aware of some of the tactics that are being used. It was determined in the session yesterday that many errors have been made in sending people letters for their homes to be taken and in particular our councilperson, Mr. Clarke, Councilman Clarke, told us in the meeting yesterday that the people who had received letters in the 1800 62 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 block of Master Street were received in error and that they were going to be given letters indicating that this was an error. Now, this is what our problem is. In the North Philadelphia area you have blocks of totally abandoned houses and just around the corner from the 1800 block of Master in the 1400 block of North 17th Street the entire block is boarded up. So we are saying to you that we want City Council to be aware when they give these people the right to go out and do this affordable housing building, that they not take homes from people where they are living and keeping their blocks in good shape. (Applause.)
There are only five homes in our block that need to be redeveloped. Why did they select that block and not go around the corner to where there is a complete block of 60-some houses that are boarded up? (Applause.)
So what we are saying to City Council is before you give them carte blanche to go into our neighborhoods that you get someone that will look into it and see to it that it is not 63 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 a political move to pull us out of our neighborhoods and then make it possible for someone else to come and live there. (Applause.)
What we also want to say to you is that a number of the people who received notices, they were shoved in their doors. They didn't even have a stamp on them. There are two councilpersons that if you have any questions that you can speak to who were here and saw what was going on with the people and that is Councilman Ortiz and Councilman Cohen. Councilman Kenney chaired the meeting and he was frustrated with what was happening to the people. So we are here to beg Council today to take another look at what you are giving these people carte blanche to do. They are tearing up people's lives. (Applause.)
There were five members of my family down here who live in that block who were directly affected by receiving those letters and that is totally unfair. And when we got here, we were here all day, Councilwoman Verna, all day. 64 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 When we got here at o'clock yesterday morning before the Councilpeople came in, someone came in and said this is not where you needed to be, although the letter that we received said come to room 696 at 10:00 a.m. because we are going to take your house and you need to know how we are going to take it. Then when we got here, they sent us downstairs to someone else to speak to us and the person to whom we spoke to who gave us such lousy -- I stood in the front and watched each person that asked him a question and I saw how he straddled the fence. I was sick when I came up here and found out he was the man that sat at this desk and at every call of every number said we want rules to be suspended so that this can go through on Thursday. I don't think that they should be allowed to be the persons to come and talk to us. They are not going to give us the right information. People came down here in droves and left here confused and still upset and are not sleeping. So we are saying to you, especially these particular councilpersons, Councilperson Jannie Blackwell, Councilperson Darrell Clarke, Councilperson Donna Reed Miller and Councilperson Marion Tasco, we are 65 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 asking you because we believe that you know the pulse of the community, to take a second look at what they are doing to your people, please. (Applause.)
Thank you very much. Again, as we say, we have had many people to speak. Certainly we cannot permit the same witnesses to speak three times, two or three times. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well, that is incorrect, and I think that your personal differences with me have --
I'm sorry. We cannot permit the same people to speak. We will ask the sergeant-at-arms, please, to escort the witness out. We cannot have the same person speak three times. It is not fair to the people who have waited all day and for days and days for resolution of the issue. Thank you very much. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I am not going to go out. It is unfair for you to have me dismissed.
Thank you very much. 66 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 Are there any other witnesses that would like to speak?
I think it is unfair for her to not let him speak because of her personal grudge against him for yesterday. I spoke yesterday. You didn't stop me from speaking. I don't think it is fair. You just have a personal grudge.
Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
I'm here for my dad, Ramon Hernandez, for the houses that have been taken from 2150 Bodine Street. We say that we were actually like forced because they just sent a letter and like we had to just leave. The whole people that were living there in the neighborhood, they already had gone. We are still there trying to figure out what we are going to do, waiting on relocation, but we haven't had no response or anything from the RDA yet or anything, but we actually out. We don't have nothing in writing, no 25 numbers, nothing, just like eviction letters to 67 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 leave.
Have you had any communication with your councilperson? I don't know who it would be.
Well, we had meetings and things like that, but nothing in writing like, you know, no further communication right now.
Councilwoman Tasco, do you have any questions or comments of this witness?
Any questions or comments of this witness? Seeing none, thank you.
Right now the string has broken. We just don't have nowhere to hang on. Right now the whole families from the neighborhood has left. All the houses are like boarded up. We're there. We are scared for our life. A lot of people had came to the other houses and street people come.
They went somewhere 68 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 else. I don't know where they at.
They went on their own. I don't know about them. All I know is that me and my father waiting still.
No, we are not in contact like that. We're just waiting to see where we are going to get relocated.
We don't know anything. We don't have nothing in writing. All we know is we just have letters that you have to leave in 90 days.
Mr. Wetzel, I'm sure that you have information on this case. I think it would behoove you to at least talk to the witness. 69 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429
But none of the houses were in imminent danger of falling down?
Nobody never had plans to leave out of there at all. It was one day they just sent a letter. I guess they got scared, whatever, and they thought that they had to leave.
But why? Why did you have to leave? What did they tell you?
The reason they had to leave is because the City was taking the property.
But why was the City taking the property? Did they give you a reason why the City was taking the property?
No. I heard they was 70 6/5/03 - Whole/Finance - 030372 - 030306 - 030429 going to put trees in the neighborhood and stuff like that.
They told you you have to go because they are going to put trees in the neighborhood?
They are going to make the city look better, but we didn't want to leave. We didn't ask to leave; you know what I mean?