Committee Hearing, September 24, 2001

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION - - - Room 401, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, September 24, 2001 1:30 p.m. - - - RESOLUTION 010531 - Resolution authorizing City Council's Committee on Education to hold public hearings to investigate whether Edison Schools, Inc., or orhter privatization efforts, can resolve the financial and education crisis facing the Philadelphia Public Schools... - - - PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER, Chair COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN WILSON W. GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 (215) 561-2220 I N D E X RESOLUTION 010531 PAGE DEBRA KAHN, Secretary of Education .......... VERONICA JOYNER, Parents United for Better Schools................................. 54 KARIN BIVENS, NAACP ......................... 59 EDWARD SCHWARTZ, Institute for Civic Value .. 64 VICTOR JONES, Chester High School ........... 76 PATTY CRUICE, Teacher ....................... 81 JASENA NIVES, Youth United for Change ....... 92 EMMANUEL FILPO, Youth United for Change ..... 95 LYNN MARTIN, Parent ......................... 98 EWUARE OSAYANDE, Black Radical Congress ..... 101 BERNARD JOHNSON ............................. 108 ALICE YARBOROUGH ............................ 106 SARAH GILLIAM, Parents Union ................ 116 EVELYN GIBSON, ACORN......................... 121 JILMA WILSON, ACORN ......................... 124 GERALD WRIGHT, Parent ....................... 127 KAY MCKINNA, League of Women Voters ......... 137 HELEN GYM, Asian Americans United ........... 138 ALDUSTUS JORDAN, PCCY ....................... 142 WALTER HOLMES, Fifth House .................. 145 JANET LONSDALE, Parent Involved Network ..... 152 WENDALL HARRIS, Phila. Home and School ...... 155 ARNOLD HALL, Phila. Home and School ......... 157 ROSITA JOHNSON .............................. 159 PHYLLIS GILBERT, Peace Action ............... 163 RITA ADDESSA, Gay & Lesbian Task Force ...... 166 DIANNE MOHNEY ............................... 172 LOU INCOGNITO ............................... 175 TERRANCE WILSON ............................. 181 3 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. 010531

Good afternoon, everyone. We're getting ready to start the hearing. Good afternoon. The Council Committee on Education is now in session with a quorum of the Education Committee members. I am Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller, Chair of the Committee. In attendance we have Councilwoman Blackwell, Councilman Goode, Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds-Brown, Councilman Cohen. Also in attendance we have Councilman Ortiz and Councilman Nutter. And I believe at the moment those are the Councilpeople in attendance. Will the Clerk please read the title of the resolution into the record?

Good afternoon. We're here for Resolution 010531, authorizing City Council's Committee on Education to hold public hearings to investigate whether Edison Schools, Inc., or other privatization efforts, can resolve the financial and education crisis facing the Philadelphia Public Schools and to propose viable recommendations to the City and State Administration that will advance our mandate that we provide quality public education while exploring policies to address the school district's structural deficit and future resource 4 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. 010531 needs. Thank you.

Thank you. Before we begin the hearing, I'd like to read a statement into a record. We're all here today to continue to a dialog regarding privatization and the future of Philadelphia Public School system. I want to welcome and to thank all of you for your attendance here today. Whatever our individual perspectives and agendas, we come together today united by our commitment and our unwavering resolve to guarantee the future for our children. In the interest of using our time most wisely, let me describe the structure and the format that we will be using today. We have, I think, about eight panels and each member of the panel will present a statement no more than three minutes. Then the entire panel will remain there for questions. We'll call the names in case you don't know which panel you're on. We'll call your names when it's your time to come up. As background, let me review the following: Last Thursday, City Council unanimously passed a resolution authorizing voter approval 5 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 before any Philadelphia Public School can be turned over to private management. The resolution requires a change in the City Charter. In August, the Governor hired Edison Schools, Inc., at a cost of $2.7 million to undertake a 60-day review of the Philadelphia system and to make recommendations. According to the Memo of Understanding signed by the Governor and Mayor Street, the Governor will then decide on a plan for fixing the schools and will present it to the Mayor. If the Mayor and the Governor cannot agree on the strategy by the end of October, the State will automatically take over the District's management. The Edison report is due at the end of this week and is still too earlier to tell how Governor Ridge's appointment to by President Bush to head the new cabinet level Department of Home Land Security will affect the possible State takeover and the future role of Edison Schools in our school system. I met with Edison on Friday, and they were prepared and agreed to send some representatives to today's hearing. This morning we received a call -- we, meaning my office -- that Edison will not be able to send anyone here today. 6 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 They, in fact, said all of their key people were called to Harrisburg in an emergency meeting. So I just need to let everyone know that no one here today will be representing Edison Schools, Inc. Community groups and education advocates throughout the City have announced a formation of a coalition of opposing both a State takeover of the District and any involvement by Edison, the nation's largest for-profit school manager in our cities. The Edison opponents contends that the District's troubles are largely due to inadequate State and City funds and that privatization will not provide a quick fix. The coalition contends that Edison has a questionable track record both financially and educationally. Edison contends that its detractors have not gotten to know Edison and its mission to provide world-class education with kids. Edison contends that despite the group's criticisms, it has a very impressive track record in improving troubled schools and that it will be releasing a report audited by the Rand Corporation, a nonpartisan research foundation, this week on its educational results around the country. These facts are our challenge and our 7 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 opportunity today. Let us use our time well. Before we begin, Councilman Ortiz also has opening remarks.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Throughout history, this nation, United States of America, even from its very beginnings in a letter that John Adams writes to Abigail Adams in terms of how the Republic shall be formed and what the priorities of the Republic shall be. He sizes that letter among the two priorities. The second priority being education, that whatever investment needs to be made in education -- and he used the words of those times because obviously people of our color were not included in education, but he did say the lower classes -- to bring the lower classes into the aspect of building the nation. And he said whatever the cost in order for the Republic to survive, that cost has to be met. And through the years, and those of us who are either grown or have come to the United States by other means and been immigrants -- my family came here when I was very, very small and I attended the lower east side public schools in New 8 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 York City. And even though there were barriers put before us and tracking systems that were established, the one thing that always kept us in line and believing, because our mothers believed it, was that education was the one vehicle and that the government would provide that and no matter whether you were rich, very rich, there was always going to be the public system to ensure a certain equality. Immigrants have come to the shore, Italians, Irish, and they all have enjoyed that privilege and the American dream recited in those lessons that we were taught. I know I have my teachers, Mrs. Bloom, Ms. Wicowski, you can always, any kid, can name you some teacher, Mr. Rickett, who had an impact, some impact on your direction later on in life. And there were teachers who were dedicated and did their job. Schools were not seen as a corporate system in order to make profit. They were seen as a vehicle to educate and make citizens that would create and build a Republic. That dream is being deferred to us. That dream is not being kept to this generation of kids who live in urban areas, mostly black and brown. And now, they don't say to you like John 9 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 Adams said to Abigail in that sense that we will make any investment whatever the cost. They say to you, "You know, we just cannot keep on putting money in the system." Well, they keep putting money into the prison system, the judicial system. They keep on growing and growing and making more and more institutions that are crowded with our young, black and brown. For those systems, there is a tunnel of money to be put in. Reading, writing, and arithmetic, three things. You need schools that are up to the age, so we got to build new schools in Philadelphia. We can't just tolerate the Sheppards, the Reads and so on down the line. As citizens, we cannot tolerate that. We cannot tolerate a Governor who tells us that we have to tolerate that. (Applause.)

We cannot tolerate representatives and a legislature that tells us we have to do that. And we cannot tolerate a legislature and people who want to balkinize Philadelphia school kids. (Applause.)

In 1954, a united 10 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 Supreme Court said that separate but equal was not equal. You could not have a Northwest school system, you could not have a West Philadelphia school system, you could not have a South Philly school system. You cannot divide the kids of this City. You have to have one public school system. Public, underlined, public. (Applause.)

And money is a very big part of the answer. And whoever tells you that it isn't is because they have it. (Applause.)

They have it. We don't need the Edison project to come in and tell us what's wrong with our public schools. Teachers tell you every day, principals tell you every day. Doris Smith put a panel together and told us that a couple of years ago. We need new schools, teachers that are paid well, paid well; we need to pay teachers well. (Applause.)

For that, you need money. We need classrooms with kids that have books, books for every subject matter. We need 11 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 computers in every school room of this City. We need teachers with kids per class. 4 (Applause.) 5

And we need music and 6 we need art. 7 (Applause.) 8

They're not luxuries. 9 When I was growing up in the lower east side in 10 tenements, if I had wanted to play a violin, I would 11 have had one to take home with me. We need and we 12 have a responsibility. We have abdicated on the 13 dialog of an education. The pity of it is that the 14 dialog on education on this City has not been on the 15 front burner. The City is not discussing this, the 16 citizens are not discussing this. In fact, we went 17 to court to try to prevent the takeover of the 18 parking authority. Give me a break. Patronage is 19 more important than public education. It isn't. It 20 can't be. We cannot abdicate to the Governor and to the State Legislature to find an answer for this. We had to fight and we got to fight and we got to unite. And we got to tell our Mayor, you can't negotiate this in the back rooms. You cannot negotiate this without of having the parents and the 12 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 citizens of Philadelphia having a say in the process. You cannot privatize without us having a say in the process. Thank you. (Applause.)

Thank you, Councilman. Councilwoman Blackwell.

Good afternoon, everyone. Let me thank the Chair of this committee and all those who work with her, her staff and certainly members in the community who have been dealing with the issue, the Veronica Joyners, the Bivens and others who have been fighting hard to try to do the best for public education for as long as I can remember. And when Councilman Ortiz mentioned Doris Smith, I'm reminded of her battle over the years, one for full day kindergarten which we now have, and for her filing a court and having the courts determine that the board has to have a plan that addresses factors including parental development, professional development of teachers, educational improvement, deseg strategies, safety, accountability and educational achievements. So 13 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 that means test scores, teacher training, deseg of all schools having the access to the equal and proper equipment including books, et cetera, were demanded by the courts years ago. And certainly, when we raise questions to Edison and any other interested people on education should be, we raise the points and repeated some she mentioned about safety and security, violence in schools, issues including test scores and maintenance of school buildings as well as the fiscal management and, et cetera, et cetera. So again, these hearings are much needed and are right on time. And we are hopeful that the record will reflect one so that all interested in public education will come forward and to have an open discussion with us about their views, what they see, and what we can do certainly to improve education in this City for our school children. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilwoman Blackwell. Before we begin to call on those individuals that are going to testify, I'd just like to make a comment that many City Councilmembers have children in public schools. So I just wanted to 14 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 make sure that you knew that. Many of us have children, nieces, nephews, et cetera. So this is really, really a very important issue to us. We're going to start our testifiers off with the Secretary of Education, Ms. Debra Kahn. For those who have never testified before, the table in the middle is where you will come when we call your panel up. We'll have one of the Sergeant-at-Arms show you how to use the mike. And you have to speak into the mike and identification, spell your name if you think it's difficult to spell, and you can use any other identifying information you'd like to go on record. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Kahn. Welcome.

Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. My name is Debra Kahn and I am the Secretary of Education for the City of Philadelphia. I really don't have any formal testimony here today. I'm here at the invitation of Chairwoman Councilwoman Miller but I am, of course, very interested and happy to be here with the members of the committee. I will be pleased to answer any questions that you might have. But really mostly I'm just here to 15 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 listen and to learn. I think this is an important part of our process, and having this public hearing at this time will be valuable to all us. Councilwoman Miller made reference to the Memorandum of Understanding between Mayor Street and Governor Ridge, and we are, of course, very much in the midst of the time period covered by that MOU. We are right now awaiting a meeting, actually, in light of the most recent events that we hope will be set up very shortly among Governor Ridge, Lieutenant Governor Schweiker and Mayor Street. This Saturday would mark September 29th which would be the date by which the Governor and the Commonwealth are supposed to be submitting to the Mayor, to the City, the plan or their proposed plan for addressing as the MOU reads the financial and educational challenges of the School District. And so I don't know yet as I sit here when this meeting will take place, but we certainly hope that it will be soon. I want to remind and reiterate that Edison Schools was, of course, not selected by the Mayor. It was chosen by the Governor, and it was our position that they would have the opportunity to choose whoever they felt that they needed to find 16 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 out whatever information they think that they needed to find out about our school district. But still, this Administration, our Administration, is committed to seeing this process that we've begun to see it through. I also want to emphasis again and repeat for the record, no decisions have been made on the part of our Administration as to what the outcome will be. We are very much keeping an open mind and not pre-judging any outcome. And really, our judgments will be made once we see this report, once we have an opportunity to look and to consider and to understand what proposals are being made of us. And it's at that time that we will start to make our judgments, not based on who's writing the report, but really on the content of the report. So until then, we're remaining flexible and open in considering our options and urging again really very much as Councilwoman Blackwell and Councilman Ortiz had indicated trying to focus on not so much on who runs our schools, but on why we run them and what we need in our schools. And I don't think any of us could agree more that we do need the whole array of what you talked about, decent quality buildings, 17 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 certainly smaller classes, up-to-date instructional materials, qualified teachers and enough teachers and enough principals and qualified well-trained personnel. These are the things that our kids need regardless of what that management and governance structure might be. So having said that, I am looking forward to hearing from the members of the community who are here who will share their thoughts and their ideas about how we should proceed in this process.

Thank you, Ms. Kahn. I have a question. Are you aware of any date deadline changes in light of Governor Ridge's new appointment?

Nothing official on that has really been determined. And I really do think that we need to await that meeting among Mayor Street, Governor Ridge, and Lieutenant Governor Schweiker before we can really comment on that.

Has that been scheduled, that meeting?

Not to my knowledge, not yet. The Mayor did speak with Governor Ridge and Lieutenant Governor Schweiker on Friday and I spoke 18 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 with him again day and we're waiting. The Governor had said that he would take the initiative to set that up.

Do you know if it is correct, it was stated in I believe Saturday's paper that Governor Ridge wanted to fast forward discussions prior to his leaving on October 5.

I read that also, but we have not been advised of that directly.

Okay. Thank you. Councilwoman Blondel Reynolds-Brown.

Good afternoon, Secretary Kahn. Are you using the word "report" and "plan" interchangeably? It was my understanding that we would be receiving a report on the findings which then presumably lay the groundwork for a proposed plan.

I'm glad you asked that. I actually think I probably was falling into the trap of using those interchangeably and should not have been. What we will be receiving is a proposed plan from the Governor. Whether or not Edison prepares any kind of final report or something, that is really an issue between Edison Schools and the 19 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 Commonwealth as their client and that really is not something of which we have any involvement or any knowledge or ownership, certainly, if such a report exist. But you're right, and I thank you for asking that. What we will be getting is the proposed plan, which obviously will be based on some of the work and some of the findings, but it is not actually a report if in fact there is a final report, which I have no knowledge of. That's something you would need to ask of Edison and the Commonwealth.

To follow-up on Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller's question regarding deadlines, for clarity purposes state the deadlines as you know them to be at this hour.

As written in the Memorandum of Understanding, September 29th is the deadline by which the Governor would need to submit to the City his proposed plan. And October 29th is the deadline at which point we would have to have negotiated some agreement on a plan that we would pursue jointly, the Governor and the Mayor reach an agreement on that. And if that is not possible, if we cannot come to terms by midnight or 11:59 on October 29th, 20 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 it would be at that point which the Commonwealth agreed that they would step in and completely run the Philadelphia Public Schools.

One other final point for clarification, we learned of what's called a Phase I. That's Phase I for Edison. That goes up to and including October 29?

That language, I believe, does not appear at all in the Memorandum of Understanding. That is language that is referenced in the contract, in the Commonwealth's contract with Edison Schools. I have that contract, but I honestly don't remember whether that was through September 29th or October 29th. I honestly just don't remember. I'd have to check the contract on that. Again, that had nothing to do -- was not in any way an agreement with the City or with the Administration. That's language that was used between the Governor and Edison.

And then finally, once this proposed plan is presented to the School District, does it then become optional or require implementation on our behalf? Or is that 21 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 what will be up for negotiation?

That's exactly what would be up for negotiation or would be the topic of discussion between the Governor's Administration and the City and the School District.

Thank you, secretary. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Councilman Ortiz and then Councilman Nutter and Councilman Cohen.

Secretary, this plan that is going to be submitted to you and the Mayor, you said you had a misunderstanding that it is a plan that is going to be submitted, the Governor is going to give you a plan for the school system of Philadelphia, right?

His proposed plan.

His proposed plan. And then you either accept it or not accept it?

It was always understood that we would then have a 30-day period of negotiation.

Did you have any plans at all to submit this plan to the people of Philadelphia and to the parents in public schools? 22 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 (Applause.)

And were you going to be able to take those feelings and those opinions as decisive in essence as to whether we should abdicate our responsibility or struggle on to really get a public school system that is funded, equitably funded, by the State of Pennsylvania? Or any plans to go to the people that have their kids in the public schools?

I think that it's very important that we know what the public thinks and what its criteria would be in judging and evaluating a plan because I think that would be helpful to us.

Madam Secretary, in order to be able to decide whether you're going to submit something, you don't need to determine what the criteria of the Governor is. He has a plan. It should be submitted to the people of Philadelphia, the parents of the public schools. (Applause.)

I did not say the criteria of the Governor. I said what criteria the people in this room and others like them, other parents, would think would be important. It's not as though we're 23 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 starting from ground zero. We already have a lot of information about what the public and the parents of the children in the City think about what should be in their schools. We went through a whole empowerment planing process where they told us loud and clear what they wanted in their public schools. And so we start with that base of information.

Madam Secretary, if I may, we know -- I think we know what's needed in the public schools. I don't think this quantum theory about parallel universes that we're talking about -- it is reading, writing, and arithmetic, and we need to be able to have smaller schools, books, and a system that gives teachers a salary that they can live on. That needs money. I don't care how you cut it. It needs money at least from the City, some of it, parts of it, and a lot from the State. (Applause.)

You won't have any disagreement with me on the fact that some plan that's a real solution will require money.

Again, we're trying to sell people that there's a magic bullet somewhere that we're going to put in here and that's going to 24 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 solve our problem. Edison is not a solution to our problem no matter how much they say it is. (Applause.)

Actually, Councilman, I'm not trying to sell people on any kind of magic bullet because I believe that this is actually very tough, difficult work that does not get solved very quickly. I need to point out, though, that any agreement that would be made between the Governor and the Mayor would ultimately certainly require legislative approval on the part of both the General Assembly and the City Council, because as you rightly point out, any agreement would involve more funding, and again, by both the Commonwealth and the City of Philadelphia. So clearly, that is one mechanism for sure where there will be built in plenty of opportunity to get public input.

Thank you, Councilman Ortiz. Councilman Cohen.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Is it true, Secretary Kahn, that the 25 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 Mayor of the City of Philadelphia proposed that the agreement between himself and the Governor include a provision that the State take over the public schools?

The Mayor said that if we could not reach an agreement, there ought to be a date certain by which we would know that the Commonwealth would in fact step in to exercise its constitutional responsibilities to deliver public education in Philadelphia.

I find it shameful that a Mayor of the City of Philadelphia would consider surrendering the Philadelphia Public School System to anybody else. (Applause.)

Well, Councilman, we find it shameful that we would have to locally be solely responsible for delivering public education in Philadelphia without adequate resources to do it and then continuously have all of us criticized, including City Council and including members of the Administration --

The Mayor has had a mechanism available to him through which to obtain 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 sufficient funding. The Governor is frightened to death about it. They bargained about it and that's the lawsuit that the Mayor withdrew. (Applause.)

The Governor was very anxious, he's very worried about the lawsuit because he knows it's a very sound lawsuit and it is very likely that the City would win it. And it's the Mayor, against the will of the people, who said, "I'll agree to withhold the lawsuit." If the Mayor pursued the lawsuit, we would have a quick remedy to the financial situation. (Applause.)

For the record, the lawsuit remains alive. But the fact of the matter is --

No, it's not. It stays in a state of remission. The Mayor has agreed that if there is no agreement between him and the Governor, the people of the Philadelphia are totally excluded from this by the Mayor's agreement. The Mayor is prepared to turn over the whole public school system to the State and the State is prepared to turn it over to Edison. That's the deal, and that's a shameful deal. 27 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 (Applause.)

Secretary Kahn, you stated a moment ago that part of the agreement is between the Governor and Edison. That agreement, that 2 million and more that's given to Edison for the so-called study is State money, Philadelphia taxpayers have contributed to that money. There can be nothing secret between the Governor and Edison when public funds are involved. (Applause.)

Excuse me, Councilman. I did not say that that was part of the agreement. It is not part of the agreement. There is a contract independent of this agreement between the Commonwealth and Edison Schools involving the amount of funds that would be paid to Edison. There is no 18 reference at all in the Memorandum of Understanding to Edison Schools.

You know, this effort, this agreement between the Governor and the Mayor is the worst kind of agreement I've ever seen in public life. (Applause.)

What this agreement 28 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 does is to make the effort to remove the public entirely from the public school system and to turn it over to a for-profit corporation that probably has a bigger deficit than the Philadelphia Public School System itself. (Applause.)

You know that when the Edison Company met with City Council in caucus that the owner, the major force, Mr. Whittle of Edison agreed that it made a profit selling stock. When I asked him is it true the report we had that while your company may have lost money, you made as much as a hundred million dollars on the sale of stock of your company? He said the number is erroneous. Otherwise, it is true. Maybe I underestimated the amount of profit he made. And you want us as Philadelphians to give up our public school system, take the public out of the system, and let this corporation run it for profit? That makes absolutely no sense, and privatization must be considered a dead issue when it comes to the public schools. (Applause.)

Thank you, Madam 29 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 Chair.

Thank you, Councilman Cohen. Councilman Nutter.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Kahn, let me to go back to one of your responses to Councilman Ortiz's questions. I think you made reference to the contract between Edison and the State. Did you refer to that in a response to a question raised by Councilman Ortiz? You said you needed to check a provision of some contract. Do you recall that?

I believe it was to Councilwoman Reynolds-Brown.

Did you make reference to that?

Yes, I did.

Could you forward a copy of the contract that you made reference to the Chair of the committee, please?

Sure.

And is that the contract between the Edison and the State? 30 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531

Correct. It's a public document.

If you could forward that to the Chair, I'd appreciate it. Let me go back to one of the other questions that was raised. I'm not sure if I took down the answer correctly. What is the process or the procedure for parents and citizens and taxpayers to have input into the development of this plan for the City schools.

Well, as I indicated, first and foremost, any agreement that could be reached would have to be approved in effect in whole or in part by both legislative bodies, both the General Assembly and City Council. So there would be, certainly, a mechanism there built in. Whether it's through an appropriations hearing or whatever it might be --

I don't want to interrupt you, but I do want to stop you right at this point as we have the ongoing Q and A. What you just laid out sounds like a process that says, an agreement is reached, the results of which then would come to the respective 31 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 legislative bodies at that point for our approval or disapproval, but I didn't hear about participation in the development of such a plan before it became a final plan. That's what I want to know about. (Applause.)

I want to know what's going on in the time period and where that group of citizens and constituency, what is their input, what is their access, what is their role prior to an agreement being reached between the Chief Executive of Philadelphia and the Chief Executive of the State and the resulting document coming for our subsequent approval?

That process, whatever it might be, has not yet been worked out. We need to see what forum, what the content is. We just simply don't know. And the fact is that we will need to digest what it is that the Governor presents to us, to have a discussion about it so that we understand the premises that it's based on, what the thinking behind it is, and what its implications might be. We will also need to be discussing with the Governor what arrangements we can make to have some sharing with the public and to find out what the public 32 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 views are. However, I would a say that it would be at a forum like this, a hearing like this, where I think we can get a head start. I've already been told that we don't necessarily need to wait and see what the proposal would be from the Commonwealth. Well, I think at a hearing like this today, we could start to get ideas, certainly. And people have been going around the City and hearing for a while now or in public meetings and community meetings and we can today start to hear what people think is important, what they think might work, what wouldn't work, and we can start to collect that information. That's why I started my testimony today by saying I was here to listen and learn.

Well, I appreciate that. You said that we would have to ask the Governor what amount of input or involvement citizens could have before we could decide what it might be?

I think this is a process. This will be a complicated difficult process, and I certainly think that if we're going to be fair and have a chance of working out an agreement, we would certainly want to discuss these issues with the 33 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 Governor and his Administration.

Well, aside from hearing from the citizens what their concerns and what their thoughts are, again, I'd like to try to stay focused on what's generally been called the plan. Figuring out what's going to happen in the schools is not a new thing for the School District. You have a variety of methods of communicating with people about processes and procedures, new educational initiatives and the like. I mean, that's not really new to us. Why do we need something specially crafted under this circumstance?

You mean a special process?

Yes.

Well, that was actually my point earlier, that I didn't think we were starting from ground zero, that we had regular communication with parents, with members of the community. There are, as you point out, built-in organizations and mechanisms and so I think we do already have a pretty good idea what people want in their schools. I will have to tell you, we don't even know what level of detail this proposal, this plan, will be presented to us at. So it's a little bit 34 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 hard to speculate exactly about what kind of level of involvement on the part of the public there will be when we're not sure exactly what we will be presented with. So I just think we will have to take this process step by step and see what unfolds.

I guess part of the concern about that is that while the general public is kind of sitting and watching and waiting, other people are talking, meeting, and deciding. And once they talk and meet and decide on the front end, it's very difficult to effectuate any change on the back end. If you haven't been a part of the process, you are left out. (Applause.)

At least on the part of the City Administration and the School District, that statement is not really correct yet because this period has been since the time of the Memorandum of Understanding went into effect in the beginning of August, I guess it was, this has been a process wherein Edison Schools on behalf of the Governor has come in to gather information from the City and the School District. And the role of the City and School District has not been discussing and 35 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 deciding; the role of the City and the School District during this period has been gathering information, responding to inquiries, arranging interviews, setting up the meetings and the like and not making decisions and prejudging outcomes.

So the plan comes in and then if we kind of suspend reality for a second and act like Governor Ridge is not leaving, the original proposal was he would send something to the Mayor and then he and the Mayor would negotiate over what that was; and if they couldn't reach agreement by October 29th, the State would take over. Do I have the sequence of events correct?

Correct.

What will the City's position be? What's the City's proposal as it relates to how they'd like to see things function here in Philadelphia?

We've said that we believe that schools, local schools, ought to remain under some form of local control, that that's what's really best. But we would not continue a process or continue an arrangement whereby we continue to be solely responsible for operating the public schools 36 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 without what I think we would all agree are sufficient resources to get the job done in a way that we all want to see it done.

So whether it's over a 30-day period or about a half hour, if the discussion starts with that particular statement and the Governor says, whether it's Governor Ridge or soon-to-be Governor Schweiker, "Couldn't agree more, very interesting concept, the answer is I'm not giving you any significant dollars to address the issues that you've raised." They part company nicely. I mean, that's pretty much the end of the discussion and they can just wait the other 29 days until the 29th gets there and then the State takes over; is that accurate?

Again, I don't want to speculate on what every step of this process will be, but I've got a feeling it would be more than a half hour's worth of discussion. I mean, if in fact this is a serious proposal --

Half hour or 29 days. If at the end of the 30-day period, if that is the answer, is that what happens?

If in our judgment we don't 37 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 believe that the ingredients that we think -- if we go back to what the goals are -- to seriously address the financial and educational challenges of the School District for the long-term, if we don't believe that the ingredients are there to make that happen, then we don't see how we can agree to a course of action.

Okay. The State takes over; then what happens? (Applause.)

It depends how it gets done. If the Commonwealth invokes Act 46, there is a procedure and governance structure that's established by Act 46.

I'm going to ask the same question. And then what happens? What's the result of that? What does that get us?

That would not necessarily certainly be a great day, and that's an understatement, in the City of Philadelphia. But the fact of the matter is, we don't see how we can continue the arrangement that we have right now.

Okay. Last question. Your statement has consistently been that 38 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 there's no deal reached or agreed to at the moment, and we'll leave it at that. If subsequent to October 29th, if somehow some way a contract is initiated or effected with Edison and they're to get part or all of the School District to operate, what happens, given some of the unusual circumstances both prior to September 11th and certainly afterwards, what happens if Edison starts having financial problems?

I'm certainly not --

What does that mean? I understand that presently they have a deficit. I understand that; that's in all their materials. The conventional wisdom seems to be that a contract here in Philadelphia will take them in accounting terms from the red to the black. At a subsequent point in time if they were to start having either financial problems, serious decline in their stock price as they've experienced in the course of this year with close to two-thirds decline in their stock price, if they continue to have financial problems, what happens to their relationship with Philadelphia?

The Philadelphia School District already has contracts with -- I don't even 39 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 know what the number is -- hundreds of whether they're suppliers or vendors or contractors or providers of service. And while I can't speak to the details of those contracts --

Well, I understand that, but none of them run the schools. We can buy toilet paper from just about anybody.

There are certainly contracts that go beyond just supplying toilet paper.

I understand that.

And I'm not in a position right now to lay out what the terms of a contract would be. But I think the thing to keep in mind is if there is any type of arrangement like this again, whether it's with Edison Schools or anyone else, there would be protections. There would have to be. There would be certain provisions that would be built in. One of the things that Philadelphia could potentially benefit from is having a lot of models out there across the country. And again, that's something and information that would be interesting to bring to this Chamber in the form of a hearing like this how those contracts are structured, how it is that we can look and learn and benefit from those 40 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 experiences.

Well, I guess my closing comment will be we have a fair number of models right here in Philadelphia. Some of them are -- I guess some of the products of those various models, some of them are sitting at this table right now. (Applause.)

And so whether it's people from the academies or, you know, Central Girls High, Masterman, Lincoln, a wide variety of schools throughout the City, some of them aren't doing too bad themselves and actually are in some quarters the envy of other parts of the Commonwealth. I mean, it's not like we're sitting down here as bait waiting to be taken by somebody.

I'm the last person who would say that. And one of the points that I think we have made over and over, Edison, and I know that I make this point wherever I go and whatever groups I speak to, the emphasis is always on the negative in the Philadelphia Public Schools rather than a good deal of the positive that we have going for us. And I couldn't agree more that it's time that people 41 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 also focused on that and learn from those experiences just like we can learn from a range of experiences.

At what point -- you said the 29th is the date that the contract or the proposal comes from the Governor to the City, is that correct?

Correct.

Based on the current timetable?

Correct.

And at what point is that shared with the public?

I don't know yet.

I'm sorry?

I don't know yet.

Is there a reason why it wouldn't be shared on the 30th or the afternoon of the 29th?

I don't know yet.

When would you know or why don't you know? Is there a secret?

No, there's no secret. As I said earlier, we would need opportunity to digest 42 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 it, to understand it. I don't think it's going to be something that's very simple, and we would need the opportunity to do that. And we think that we have a responsibility --

I understand that.

We have a responsibility to do that.

You're going to do that anyway. The question revolves more around why would it then not be shared with the public?

It's just not something I'm prepared to say right now.

Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Councilman Nutter. Councilman Goode.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Secretary Kahn.

Good afternoon.

I think clearly what you're hearing today from members of this committee and members of Council is that the Memorandum of Understanding that was developed from the meeting in 43 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 July, they don't feel party to. I think what you will hear from members of the community represented here today is that they also don't feel party to that agreement. And I will be very brief in my remarks to allow people from the community at large to speak. But I want to take it out of that Memorandum of Understanding for a second. Put Edison to the side, put the state government to the side. What is the Administration's formal position on the privatization of educational services?

We don't think that it's either necessarily and automatically all good or all bad. I think that it's just way too broad a question to look at in that way as either or, or black and white. I think there are a whole range of models, a whole range of arrangements that could be made under that very broad heading, and I think that we need to consider all options.

What is your personal position on privatization of educational services?

My personal position?

And assuming the Secretary of Education, knowing the financial and academic crisis, having previously served on the 44 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 school board and obviously being deeply involved in this issue, was privatization something that is part of your philosophical mind-set? Is it something that you accept as an alternative, as an option? Where do you stand on privatization?

As we said previously, I think that there are number of things in this school district that we don't get enough credit for. We have a lot of successes and I have consistently thought that this school district and continue to think is undervalued for what it does every day on behalf of kids and for what teachers and principals do every day. And there's a lot that good that goes on in our public schools. (Applause.)

I think we need to learn from that. I also think by the same token there are a number of things that we don't seem to do so well and that it is very frustrating that we continue to get the kind of results that we get. I think that money is a big part of that, but I don't think that in all cases it's the sole reason. Therefore, I am personally not opposed to trying new arrangements as long as they reach certain criteria of equity, that 45 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 they have the ingredients in them that we believe from a research standpoint, from an experience standpoint makes sense are the ingredients that we need to improve our public schools.

Let me be a little bit more specific then. Let's talk about specific proposals. Even before Edison became involved, even before the Memorandum of Understanding with the State, there were proposals in South Philadelphia and in West Oak Lane by Kenny Gamble and by Representative Dwight Evans to pursue similar type courses. What was the Administration's position on those proposals? Is the Administration continuing to review those proposals? How did you feel about those proposals? That's before the Memorandum of Understanding and that's before Edison came into play.

Our position was that we ought to talk to people, we ought to listen to them, we ought to hear what their ideas are because if we're sincerely interested in improving educational outcomes and opportunities for students, then we have an obligation and a responsibility to hear people who come to us from the community who say -- 46 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 and in the case of Universal, for example, it was the community that came, saying that we want to do things a different way and a better way. And so we think that we absolutely had an opportunity to listen and learn and explore.

I understand the line of thinking that you commend their efforts, you commend their involvement. But I'm saying beyond commending their contribution, did you evaluate the proposals?

There wasn't enough specificity at that point. And we were starting -- and they kept going back to the drawing board and coming back and looking at some more specific things. And then we got into this timetable with the MOU, so we really said, "Listen, we can't make any agreements or agree to take any steps or finalize anything right now outside of that.

Well, have you asked them to be more specific in their proposals?

There had been over the course of -- and I honestly don't remember what the time period was.

I'm going to have to 47 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 request a direct answer to that one. Have you or have you not asked them to be more specific in their proposals?

Not since this time period of the MOU began. Prior to that, I know that they had been working on more specific proposals. But I have personally not had any involvement with that since the period of this MOU.

Let me jump back to the MOU then. Let's put the State back into this. If on October 29th Governor Schweiker says that he's going to go along with the plan that includes Edison and Universal Companies in South Philadelphia and includes Edison and Ogontz Avenue Revitalization Corporation and Representative Dwight Evans and West Oak Lane, would the Administration be against that and will the Administration prepare to respond to that knowing that those proposals that were on the table before the Memorandum of Understanding and before Edison came into play?

The Administration would not be automatically opposed to or in favor of those proposals because we have not seen specific enough proposals yet to evaluate them. We don't know what 48 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 the financing of those is, we don't know what --

You don't think that those are proposals that are coming?

I'm sorry?

I don't think I have this great vision, and I can see that those are possible proposals Edison will look to teaming up with proposals that were on the table before the Memorandum of Understanding. My question is why wouldn't the Administration be looking at those areas specifically, not waiting for Edison, not waiting for the state government to say anything about what they think should happen, but knowing those are two live proposals on the table that Edison might be pursuing and wanting to know what's going to happen if those two proposals are put into effect, and maybe put into effect within the next 30 to 45 days.

First of all, the West Oak Lane proposal, my understanding is they're not anywhere near the level of detail that would constitute an official proposal right now. And as I said to you, I personally just don't know at what level of detail the Universal proposal stands right 49 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 now, I just honestly don't.

So you won't be shocked when it happens on October 29th? Or you will be shocked?

I'm not sure what the "it" is. If you're saying that you think that --

If Edison is going to move in and partner with some community partners in Philadelphia, you don't think that those are among the top partners that they would choose to do business with?

They may or may not. And I don't know that I would consider it, at least in the case of -- obviously Universal has been talking to them for a long time and that might be the case. In the other case, I don't necessarily know that that's true.

So you take the wait-and-see attitude on everything?

No. What I am saying to you is on October 29th if it's an agreement that we're going -- if it's an arrangement that we would be agreeing to, we would know the terms of that proposal and what that arrangement would be. 50 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531

It still sounds like a wait-and-see attitude. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Councilman Goode. Councilman Cohen.

I'd like again to refer to the briefing that took place between members of City Council and Edison. When asked by members of City Council what are the changes that Edison might propose based on its so-called experience over some years, what are the major features of the Edison program, after hemming and hawing for about 10 or 15 minutes, finally, the only answer given by Mr. Whittle was that he would expand the length of reading classes and he would cut them down in size to about 15 pupils. Now, we've known that all along, haven't we? I don't find anything remarkable about that. And I find that in Judge Doris Smith's opinion in the Commonwealth Court clear outlines of the kind of things that people in the school system have spoken about as necessary to get the level of performance that all schools that some of the other schools that were mentioned 51 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 already had. Now, what's so remarkable about Edison that anyone would take them seriously? Could I ask you that, Ms. Kahn? (Applause.)

Again, I wasn't at that briefing so I can't speak specifically about what went on there. But knowing and doing are two different things. And I hear a lot of educators say that they know what to do, but nevertheless somehow we don't always do it. And I'm not saying that Edison or someone else always does it. But I do think that it would behoove us and that it is our responsibility to listen and to watch and to observe and to see, not just what Edison Schools, but what other public school districts do, what other providers do. I think we always have to be in a mode of trying to do things better. And we also need to learn more from within our own system. We have schools, and not just the schools that people laud, the magnet schools and those schools; we have neighborhood schools that are consistently doing a good job day after day, year and year, and we need to do a better job of learning from those schools. Now, having said that, I've heard that before and 52 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 you've probably heard that before. And there continues to be a real frustration as why that doesn't consistently happen across the system. And maybe somebody has a better way of managing a system or parts of a system or some schools to make that happen. I don't know yet. We're still in the process of looking at that. But I do know that I feel a deep sense of responsibility to our kids to do everything we can and not get caught up in labels or anything else, to do anything that we can to provide the opportunities and the advantages that if someone tells me they can do that, I know I have a responsibility to look into it.

Of course, Mr. Whittle doesn't even say they'll do that. What he says is the same thing that the public school system says. He says that among the groups they are responsible for, they have some very fine schools and they have some very low-achieving schools and they have some schools in between. Sounds to me very much like the report we get about Philadelphia schools. (Applause.)

Mr. Whittle did not 53 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 claim any particular ability to reform the schools that were at the bottom level. He said they were disappointing as our schools that maybe have bottom-level performance are disappointing to us. With respect to the main issue that seems to override everything, finances, I find that bewildering that we're choosing Edison. Last year Edison lost $35 million in that one year and that's by their own statements. They have less or approximately, let's say, giving them the benefit of the doubt, about one-third of the number of pupils that the Philadelphia Public School System has. I don't know of any single year in which the Philadelphia Public School System had a deficit of over a hundred million. And if you take the size of the two groups of pupils involved in Edison and the Philadelphia Public Schools, that's what Edison's deficit would be. So I don't know how you can bring them in to handle financial problems. They're going to need the same money that the Philadelphia Public Schools are going to need. (Applause.)

I think what we're seeing is not a bailout of the Philadelphia Public 54 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 Schools, but a bailout of the Edison Company which has serious financial problems. (Applause.)

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Secretary Kahn.

Thank you.

Does anyone have any further questions of Debra Kahn? Thank you, Debra. The next panel we have is Dr. Karin Bevins, Education Director of the NAACP; Veronica Joyner, Executive Director of Parents United for Better Schools; Edward Schwartz, Institute for Civic Values. Please come to the table.

Good afternoon, City Council representatives, students, parents, community organizations, and citizens. I am Veronica Joyner and I'm a teacher and the president and founder of Parents United for Better Schools, Incorporated, a nonprofit multiracial parent advocacy corporation based in Germantown, Philadelphia. I am also of the chief administrative 55 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 officer of one of the largest charter schools in the State of Pennsylvania, the Mathematics Civics and Sciences Charter School of Philadelphia. I am a product of the Philadelphia Public School, graduating from Kensington High School for Girls in 1968. I thank you for taking the time to come here today. I thought you needed to have some input in what was going on in terms of our schools in Philadelphia. I wrote a letter to Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller and Jannie Blackwell requesting that public hearings be held. The purpose of the public hearing today is to give you the opportunity to speak, to listen, and take action. I hope that you will make your statements brief and to the point. Please try to give solutions if you can. Public schools as we know them started as common schools in Massachusetts. They later became what is now known as public schools. Public schools provide an opportunity for poor children to be educated free. Philadelphia has had public schools run by our local government since the 1800s. Today we are faced with a very serious problem: School funding, or in this case, under-funding. 56 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 There are 210,000 children in grades K through attending Philadelphia Public Schools. The question is how do we fund schools with a budget deficit of $216 million? I'd hope the question would be answered through the lawsuit on fair funding. However, an agreement between Governor Ridge and Mayor Street agreed to a moratorium to hold off on that suit. Parents United for Better Schools is a part of that suit. We know our public schools, due to lack of funding, had to cut music, art, vocational education, and many principals had to decide between a police officer in the school or a school library. Our children cannot achieve academically due to a serious teacher shortage, lack of textbooks and school supplies. The problem is money and color. The schools are populated with low-income minority children. It is obvious to me that our leadership don't think our children are worth it. Well, I do. (Applause.)

The spending of the Philadelphia School District is a problem. We need City Council to amend the City Charter allowing it the power to oversee the monies that are allocated. 57 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 Presently, City Council can only pass the budget, not tell the School District how to spend the money. The question before City Council today is privatization. Do we privatize Philadelphia Public Schools? No. No. No. 7 (Applause.)

To privatize to a for-profit management corporation such as Edison to manage our schools and privatize means that Edison will be making money on the backs of our school children. (Applause.)

Their motive is to turn a profit. How? Cutting more programs, increasing class sizes, hiring new inexperienced teachers for less money and providing no staff development, reducing school supplies, not providing for special needs children due to cost. This will allow business-minded people that are not educators to run our schools and make decisions on education issues based on how much money it will cut into their budgets. There are many, many complaints from educators and parents regarding privatization. 58 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 Edison is not an option. Edison's track record in Minneapolis, in Wichita, Kansas; Lansing, Michigan; Dallas, Texas; Wayne County, North Carolina is not impressive. According to the information gathered by Philadelphia Children and Youth and Agents United, Edison have been asked to leave these states due to failing schools, increased budgets at the contracts that were signed and agreed upon were unable to be kept. Edison could not continue leaving schools academically failing and increasing taxes and cost counties in north Nevada, for example, taxpayers have to pay Edison more than $8 million in overhead in addition to the 35 to $38 million to operate 7 schools. Privatization did not work for any of the school districts I've mentioned. In fact, the for-profit group Edison presently has a budget deficit larger than the school district it's preparing to take over. (Applause.)

We don't want this for our children. And that is why Parents United for Better Schools and the 20,000 parents I represent in Philadelphia say no to privatization. Thank you. (Applause.) 59 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531

Good afternoon, City Council Councilmembers. Good afternoon to the audience and to the media. My name is Karin C. Bivens. I'm the Education Chair or the Philadelphia Branch of the NAACP. I have divided into the problem and recommendations. The Education Committee of the Philadelphia Branch of the NAACP is concerned about the State's unequal funding of the School District of Philadelphia and other school districts around the State. In Philadelphia the public schools are almost 80 percent African-American and minority. Most of the schools in predominately African-American areas are from 60 to 100 years of age or older and in deteriorating condition. Many of the schools in the northeast part of e City are 40 years of age or less and well maintained. There is an inequity in, A, the purchase and distribution of books, supplies; and B, curricular offerings and roster scheduling in predominately African-American schools. As a result, the Philadelphia branch of the NAACP along with several community organizations entered into a suit which called on the Pennsylvania State Superior Court to equalize funding around the 60 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 State. This suit was later postponed by Mayor Street at the request of Governor Ridge. The Governor then threatened a State takeover of the schools and hired Edison Schools, Inc., to evaluate the School District of Philadelphia at the cost of 2.7 million for less than 90 days work, ignoring the excellent and insightful evaluation made by Judge Doris Smith in 1994. Edison, a private for-profit business was hired without advertising or obtaining the lowest bidder. In addition, Edison, whose report is due on September 29, 2001, is viewed as the front-runner to take over and run some or all of the Philadelphia schools that they have evaluated, an obvious conflict of interest. The leadership of the predominately white population of Northeast Philadelphia has already stated that Edison will not take over the schools in the northeast part of Philadelphia. They have expressed their intention to defend their decision politically by any means necessary. (Applause.)

Mr. Kenny Gamble and the Universal Corporation have stated that they want 61 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 Edison to take over and run the Audenried cluster in South Philadelphia. State Representative Dwight Evans has expressed an interest and obtained an $800,000 grant by working with Rhonda Lauer and her foundation to study the feasibility of taking over the King Cluster in the West Oak Lane area of the City. Others have expressed intentions of taking over schools in West and North Philadelphia. The NAACP sees this as a plan to segregate the predominately African-American, Latino and Asian public school students into separate but unequal facilities. This would set the Civil Rights movement back almost 50 years. Martin Luther King, Edgar Evers and others did not fight and die to see our youth return to the educational segregation of the past. (Applause.)

The NAACP will take legal action, if necessary, to prevent re-segregation of the Philadelphia public schools. (Applause.)

Our recommendations are as follows: A, that a committee of educators, community leaders, parents' representatives, City 62 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 and State officials be formed to consider the following: 1. How will Act 46 affect the future of public education in Philadelphia? 2. What are the most reasonable viable alternatives to provide equitable system-wide educational reform without favoring one ethnic group over another? 3. Will private for-profit corporations deliver the best educational product without inflating the public school budget larger than it already is? 4. How will private for-profit educational corporations maintain desegregation guidelines if they take over a predominately segregated school cluster? 5. What provisions will private for-profit education organizations make to provide a quality educational program that will demonstrate measurable increases in reading and math in grades to 3? 6. What provisions will private for-profit educational organizations make to provide remediation that will demonstrate measurable 63 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 increases in reading and math for children in grades to 8? 4 7. What provisions will private for-profit educational organizations make to provide quality academic courses in math, science and foreign languages for high school students and technology training for business education students that are not currently being providing in some predominately minority high schools? 8. Will new teachers and teachers in the intern programs be given behavior modification technics to deal with classroom student discipline problems and how will class size be handled? What will be the disposition of youth with severe disciplinary problems? 9. Who will bear the financial and physical responsibility of ancillary services such as custodial services, food services, school nursing services, transportation et cetera? Will it be the school district or will these services go to private outside firms? How will this effect the current union employees and their contracts and the delivery of service to children? (Applause.) 64 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531

Before the consideration of for-profit business is made, a comparison of financial, legal and educational cost for public and private educational organizations should be made. Then, if a for-profit educational organization is the best financial solution, review those institutions to select the one with the best track record and develop a contract that eliminates large additional fees for unanticipated extra cost and give City Council oversight and review of the school district budget. Thank you. (Applause.)

I'm Ed Schwartz, President of the Institute for the Study of Civic Values. And beyond sitting here and voting on a few education budgets some years ago, I'm a parent whose daughter attended public school in Philadelphia. And I would add in my own career going back before I game here, I was a leader of the National Student Association fighting for educational reform at the campus level, and I have done as much in this area as perhaps some of the other areas I'm better known for here in Philadelphia. I want to address three issues. First, 65 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 what is Harrisburg's current assessment of the Philadelphia School District that has given rise to an audit of our district? Second, what does this say about Edison and its role in this and how should we evaluate them in terms of whatever future role they might play in this system? And third, what are the issues that we need to address that seems to me here in Philadelphia and in the Commonwealth whether Edison is part of this picture or not? First, why are we here? What's the nature of the conflict between the City of Philadelphia and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania that gives rise to this crisis? Is there really an educational issue that Harrisburg is raising here over some aspect of our test scores? If so, that would be a first. In all the years when our schools seemed to be failing according to everyone's account no one from Harrisburg came forward with a threat to shut us down. No, the issues that are really bringing us here have nothing to do with our quality education. That's not why Harrisburg is angry. Its angry because we have a deficit. The issue here is 66 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 money. And if tomorrow we were to figure out some magic way to solve our fiscal problems even at the cost by everyone's account of good educational practices, does anyone believe that Harrisburg would rise up, the Ridge Administration or the Schweiker Administration and say, "This is terrible. You can't do that"? Of course not. They would go back and say, "That's fine. Problem is solved." So the only problem that they're really concerned about, the problem that they're bringing Edison to help them solve is the fiscal problem. And Edison steps forward in the battle claiming that they can offer quality education to students within whatever budget the School District provides them. It's a strange claim for them to make given its record around the country which you've heard a little bit about here. Leaving aside its track record in running schools educationally, it's had its own problems with local school districts in making ends meet. School boards in Inkster, Michigan; Wichita, Kansas; Dallas, Texas; Pontiac, Michigan; among others, have all reported fiscal problems in hiring Edison. Seven schools in Dallas claimed as recently as March of this year 67 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 that Edison could cost them up to $20 million more than expected. This from the Dallas Morning News, hardly a radical newspaper. Edison itself, as has been noted by several members of this Council, is running its own deficit. And as Councilman Cohen points out, its debt to revenue ratio is higher than that experienced by our own school district. And on that basis, Edison gets a $2.7 million two-month contract to conduct an audit of our school district. We can hire 54 teachers at $50,000 a piece for an entire year with that money. (Applause.)

That in itself is a sorry commentary on the Commonwealth's priorities and Edison's. Even more disturbing is a report that some of us got from the public school this week that suggests that Edison is not even permitted under its contract to argue that the City of Philadelphia needs more money. It is required to offer advice on how we might further cut costs without destroying education in the City. Well, there seems to be two options here 68 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 in the public arena. One is advanced by the School District. The School District tells us from time to time that if only the rest of the City Government would pick up things like security and transportation and some ancillary services to students, the School District's budget could provide education with what remains. (Applause.)

So if Edison were here, which was an expectation I had have in drafting this, I would want to ask them whether that's something that they've already concluded since they're well along the way. That would be the most, in a way, decent solution perhaps to draw. But the other one is a bit more ominous. And that is that 70 percent of our education budget is for personnel, for people, for people who teach. And there is no 19 way to cut the amount of money out of that budget to yield a balanced budget without either laying off a lot of teachers or cutting their wages and benefits. There's no way to do it. And I would remind you, Members of Council --

Or cutting programs.

Well, in effect, it cuts 69 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 programs. But people, it cuts people. Huge programs get cut or we're revisiting the PFT negotiated a year ago. That's really where we would be left. Now, of course, Mayor Rendell was able to become Mayor in 1992 and he had a contract facing him. And his great first success was in negotiating with AFSCME and the other unions a contract which cut their benefit levels significantly without, in fact, imposing a strike upon the City. Well, we had a contract negotiated last year. Are we going to ask Edison or is Edison going to ask to revisit that? And where exactly will that leave us? What is Edison's perspective, for example, on the wages and benefits provided to the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers last year? Do the auditors, these auditors that we have believe that these were excessive? Would they be prepared to reopen the PFT contract? These are questions central to Edison's role as auditor with a report due in a matter of days. We need to understand how they think in these areas to get a sense of where their recommendations might lead. 70 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 But, of course, Edison is more than just an auditor. It is also a potential beneficiary of its own audit. This is nothing short of astonishing. (Applause.)

Consider what exactly has happened here. The School District is in serious financial trouble. A local business person with support from at least two members of the delegation in Harrisburg has initiated negotiations with Edison to assume management of at least the Audenried Cluster, perhaps others. One of the board members of Edison served with our Governor in Congress several years ago. The result is that the Governor now awards a $2.7 million contract to audit our School District with the understanding that they might benefit from their own recommendations. (Applause.)

What would the reaction in Philadelphia among the press and everyone be if Mayor Street asked a firm to conduct an audit on this basis? What self-respecting company would even accept such a contract? That Edison is willing to perform an audit on this basis does not really 71 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 reflect well on their ethical standards as a member of any part of this community or any other. (Applause.)

Many others of you have already offered their own critique of Edison as a manager of Philadelphia schools. We do have, as has been noted, a company WITH serious fiscal and by all accounts educational problems evaluating a school district with serious fiscal and educational problems. Again, who is saving whom here? And what educationally different will they make? Councilman Cohen indicates that at your briefing last week you asked this question and they had no answer. In looking at Edison's statement of education philosophy, I found little difference between the principles that they advanced and the principles that we have been trying to implement through children achieving over the past five years. So what difference does this make? And as to their fiscal situation, I want to turn to some comments that were made by Councilman Nutter because as he points out, their stock price has dropped and it continues to drop as does the rest of the market for the most part 72 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 precipitously and they are running a debt. At what point does a company in this circumstance running debt that cannot in fact hold up its stock price need to go out of business? It is happening all over the country right now. And what then happens to the students who are taking classes from Edison if that occurs? Do you recall a few months ago a private profit job training agency that shut down without warning in Philadelphia, leaving their hapless students waiting, some of them only a few days away from getting their degrees to just have to go elsewhere? That was adults. Can we afford really to let this happen with our children? I don't think so. (Applause.)

But I believe to come to my final point that both the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and us have to really start a solution on one basis. It's implementing the rhetoric we all use, that the education of our children is our and should be, must be our highest priority. We all say that, but it is not in fact true. It is not true in Harrisburg and, frankly, it is not true here. It was more important to the Ridge Administration last 73 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 year to send $100 property tax rebates to homeowners around the Commonwealth than it was to provide adequate funding for the troubled school districts of the State. I calculated that had we used the rebate money for those so-called empowerment schools, of which Philadelphia is now one, we would not have a deficit right now. There was enough money there to in fact solve that problem. And how much is in the Commonwealth's rainy day fund now; millions, more than a billion? Do we really need that? All of that is a wedge against downturn or could some of it be used to support education? Tax rebates and the rainy day fund are the priorities in Harrisburg, and education has had to wait its turn. Unless you think the City is in any different, keep in mind that instead of using the surpluses of the late '90s to reduce our wage tax we simply transferred the same amounts to our School District, then again we would not be facing a deficit right now. Mayor Rendell used the approach that he has, and I'm sure as a candidate for Governor it will be in his ads, that he had saved the taxpayers a hundred million dollars every year with this wage tax program. That's a hundred 74 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 million dollars that could have gone to our School District. But again, this was not the priority. The fact is that neither Harrisburg nor Philadelphia has organized its priorities in accordance with what we all know. Namely, that as long as our schools are in trouble, both people and jobs will continue to leave. The three largest cities in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Erie all lost population in the 1990s, far worse than in most cities in most states in this country. Here in Philadelphia we all say that we understand our need to upgrade the work force and fix our schools. So at what point does this become the first consideration in our State and City budgets instead of becoming the last consideration after every other matter is resolved? (Applause.)

When the answer to that question is "now" on part of both the City and State, then this problem will start to get solved. Because I do believe, as many of you have said, that the central problem in Philadelphia is the lack of funds, nothing else. That doesn't exempt us from strengthening leadership and accountability among 75 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 principals, building a strong curriculum, upgrading professional development for our teachers, and establishing strong partnerships between schools and parents and management of the children's education and reducing class size and being able to buy adequate books and equipment for our schools. But without the needed funds, we will not be able to make any of these other solutions work. That much is quite clear to us/ Edison is perhaps the greatest reason we should do what we can to prevent privatizing any education. (Applause.)

Thank you for your testimony. Before you leave, we'll see if any members of this committee have any questions or comments for anyone one on this panel.

They said it all. (Applause.)

We'd also like to get copies of your testimony if you have them. The Sergeant-at-Arms will pick them up. I'd just like to mention that this hearing we've been joined by Councilman Frank Rizzo and we were also joined by Councilman Darrell 76 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 Clarke. The next panel -- we're going to change panels. We're just going to change the schedule a little because we have a visitor from out of town and we'd like to bring him on. That is the principal from Chester. Victor Jones, Chester High School principal. And Pat Cruice who is also a teacher, I believe here in Philadelphia or Chester, I'm not sure. Good afternoon and welcome to Philadelphia City Council Education Committee. Will you speak directly into the mike, state your name and any other identifying information you'd like to state for the record. Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Victor Jones. I'm here today as a citizen who lives in the City of Philadelphia. I've been a principal of Chester High School in Chester, Pennsylvania, Second Chance Academy. And I'm here today as a kind of emergency and appeal. We in Chester have gone through this privatization and we found ourselves in a bit of chaotic situation as it stands right now. And I just wanted to share the information and give you some ideas or some glimpse of some of the 77 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 problems that we have faced as a result of privatization. Chester is one of the most depressed school districts in the State of Pennsylvania. We are among several other schools that have been targeted by the Governor of Pennsylvania for privatization. We have found ourselves in somewhat of a quagmire trying to get ourselves out from under the mandates that have been placed upon us by the privatization group. On June 30th of this year, we were told that our schools will be taken over by private vendors. There were three private vendors that were contracted for the City of Chester. One was Edison, one was Learn Now, and the other one was Basaka (ph). They divided themselves up into three groups, and, of course, they had to appeal to the community for support. By appealing to the community, they thought maybe they would use local people who had gone through the Chester School District and made various promise to these people assuring them that possibly the educational and academic atmosphere in the schools would improve. Many of them knowing the people that they had come 78 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 in contact with decided, well, this might be a good idea. And I would say to you if you would get a chance to speak to any citizen who is a part of that particular committee in Chester, you will find that each one of them would tell you without fear of contradiction that it was worst mistakes educationally that that city has made since it's been in existence. I have here a copy of what the Empowerment Act states. Most of you have probably not seen this. I also have all of the bills that goes along with that in terms of the amendments that was made by the State. The first question that you need to ask yourself, is this Constitutional sound? If you would look at the way that these contracts are written, you will find that there are many discrepancies. You need to know that the Pennsylvania Secondary Educational Association has filed a grievance against these particular acts and they feel that they're going to win. You're going to find that as a result of many of these things that are laid out here as part of this particular privatization move has been somewhat overshadowed by the whole concept of improving schools. 79 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 You have stated here today -- and I hate to be redundant, and I won't be very long. But you've stated here many things that Chester has gone through. You asked some very, very intelligent questions. And I would suggest to you that you need to understand that because a school becomes under the Empowerment Act does not necessarily they have to be privatized. (Applause.)

The Governor could make an agreement to support the Philadelphia School District financially without going through any private vendors or even having going to the Mayor. That could be done through the State and also the people who have been elected to run the School District. Those are things that could be done. And those questions need to be asked before you enter into any kind of agreement. Privatization, you have to ask yourselves staff-wise what would be the outcome of those teachers who are working under vendors? First of all, when you become a member of the vendor or you become employed by a vendor, you will find yourselves not a part of the Pennsylvania retirement 80 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 system. You will lose your medical support. You need to understand those things because those things will not be a continuum as a result of privatization. You will lose your seniority within the retirement system and you will have to pay your retirement through the privatization organizations that have been set up for that particular purpose. These are things that we were experiencing in Chester. The Edison group had no experience at all with contracts by teachers. The teacher contract of agreements. They had no experience there in that particular area, so as of right now there's no legal contract that is binding between the Teachers Association in Chester, Pennsylvania, and Edison who has now taken it over. So they have agreement they have arrived at to work to together with one another, but there's no contract that has been signed as of this date. The contract between Edison and Chester was only signed on August 29th. We had to wait that long before we could get some information concerning the status of those employees who will be working in the school district for the coming year. 81 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 As a school district, you will still be responsible for maintaining all of the custodial services and repairs to your building along with paying Edison the contract. This is part of the stipulation that are now laid out in the Chester agreement with Edison. Edison will run the curriculum, but you will have to maintain and support the schools. These things are happening to us in Chester, Pennsylvania. We thought maybe we would share this information with you this afternoon because it's very, very important that you understand that privatization will only hurt you, it will not help you. The solution to the problem for Philadelphia lies within the citizens of the Philadelphia and you don't need a private organization to help you do that. Thank you. (Applause.)

Good afternoon, City Council, citizens, students. My name Patty Cruice. I am a teacher at Houston Elementary in Mount Airy, I'm a parent of a public school kid and I'm a member of the Executive Board of the Philadelphia of Federation of Teachers. I came today mostly just to underscore 82 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 what is facing us and the very real danger that we see sitting in our classrooms doing what we can do with the limitations that we have. We see politicians making deals or the perception that deals are being made and we're not part of the discussion. I am very concerned that what's going to happen is what some teachers have been saying they're just going to balkinize the system. And that might be all right if your group of schools has a sugar daddy or somebody who's willing to come in and go to bat for you. But there are going to be a lot of kids lost and a lot of buildings and a lot of staff people that are not going to have a voice in this. It's been said before, but I'm just going to say it again, that at root here the problem is one of funds. If money didn't matter, my nephews that go to school in Upper Dublin, that school district wouldn't be spending the money they spend on my nephew's education that's not being spent on my daughter's education. Money does matter. (Applause.)

We need safe schools. I need a smaller class size. I have 32 sixth-graders. 83 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 It's too many, too many sixth-graders in one room. (Applause.)

Edison says that they have a better way of managing the system, yet by Edison's own definition, a district should not spend more than 7 percent on administration. Well, the school district spends 6 percent on administration as it is now. So as Ed has said, the cut is going to come in personnel. When you look at 70 percent of the budget being that of expenditure in personnel, that's where the cut's going to come. So how many more students am I going to have in my class as a result of this? As it is, it's a challenge for me to get and meet the needs of 32 students. And finally, as a union member, as a citizen of Philadelphia who pays taxes -- I own a house in Mount Airy, I pay my taxes. If I lost my union benefits, the advantage to being part of a union that comes with being a working person, where does that leave me as a contributing member of Philadelphia, as a contributing citizen to this City? One last thing I want to say is make sure you take the time to listen to the students who 84 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 are here. (Applause.)

The students will tell you in ways that the talking heads missed and they'll let you know in no uncertain ways what's going on. Thank you.

Excuse me, we have a couple questions. Mr. Jones, do you still currently work in Chester as principal?

No. What happened to the administrators -- because of the contract agreement between the teachers, they were not allowed to lay off teachers, so therefore they laid off every administrator and I fell into that particular group. We were given as a result of litigation with the association we were allowed to bump back into the teaching ranks, so we had to go back and become part of the teaching ranks in order to maintain our jobs. They were going to get rid of the top -- I guess we were middle management. As a result of being middle management, they felt that we were neither in any kind of contract agreement with anyone because we could only meet and discuss so they felt that they 85 9/24/01 - EDUCATION - RES. NO. 010531 were the most likely that they had to get rid of in order to maintain some form of profit.

Is there a principal where you were? You were a principal at Chester High School?

They brought in a principal of their own. And another part of that is that they're allowed to use uncertified people in positions. You don't have to be certified, according to the agreement.

To be a principal.

To become principal nor teacher.

And your empowerment team in Chester chose to privatize? That's my understanding. Because we had an empowerment team here in Philadelphia. We did not recommend to privatize. But Chester's empowerment team, that was a part of your recommendation, wasn't it, to bring in a private operator?