I apologize. Councilmember Gilmore-Richardson asked to be recognized.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. And good afternoon colleagues. And thank you so much to the Board President Streater and our Superintendent Dr. Watlington, the entire team of the School District of Philadelphia for their robust presentation. I wanted to go back to a few things that were noted in the presentation, and also ask several questions relative to revenue and financial and fiscal future of the district. First, I just want to congratulate Dr. Watlington on the attendance numbers across the District. I know that was one thing you wanted to focus on upon arrival. And I will tell as a parent of students in the District who enjoy perfect attendance, might I add, we feel that trickling down into each school. So, I want to thank you for the focus on perfect attendance as well as some of the Goals and Guardrails that you all mentioned. I wanted to briefly talk about the financial picture for the District. I saw the article like so many of my colleagues relative to the fiscal situation that you all will be in like the City and like many other municipalities in a couple fiscal years. And so if you all have any debt -- and this question will be for your CFO. If you all have any debt, are you looking at restructuring that debt while your bond rating is high and while we have an opportunity to do so? If that's a possibility.
Councilmember Gilmore-Richardson, thank you for the question. Our CFO transitioned to his car phone. He is going to join us momentarily. He had a child he needs to pick up by a certain time. And I think we want to make sure he gets his child on time. So, he is going to join us shortly. But I, certainly, know that President Streater has asked us to look at every way we can be as efficient as possible while we have the financial health that we do. And so unless President Streater wants to speak to that, I can we can hold it until we get the CFO back on the -- on the line. Would that be okay President Streater?
Okay. That's great. I certainly understand that, particularly to the CFO. I, actually, had to do the same thing as we had a Commerce Committee hearing prior to this. And I, too, have little children in our public school system. But at any rate, I wanted to ask the question relative to how you all are looking at going after federal dollars and federal grant opportunities to ensure that we can supplement some of the line items in the budget as necessary so that may -- maybe that fiscal balance that you all noted, I think it was 400-plus million, that you may have a deficit in a few years where we can sort of chip away at some of that deficit by trying to get in sort of the individualized federal grants. I heard you earlier in the presentation talk about the hydration stations that have been installed. And you know that we work very closely with the District to ensure that that application was submitted to the Federal Government. And the School District of Philadelphia received the highest award of any District in the country. And so, that was a result, one, of Councilmember Gym's legislation, and then six years later, my appointment to the United States Environmental Protection Agency Local Government Advisory Committee. And so, are you all going after any grants -- maybe your grant office can specifically speak to this -- to look at ways where we can chip away at that projected deficit?
I will say two things, Councilmember Gilmore-Richardson. One in alignment with our strategic plan ACCELerate Philly, we have directed the Office of Grants and Fund Development to focus on securing as many federal and other grant-funded dollars to support the strategies in this strategic plan. We're not sure that we will be able to supplement some of the key areas that we currently have to our funding in the district for this reason. A, we had an audit done by the Council of Great City Schools. And they told us that relative to other large school districts our size, we have a much smaller administrator -- central office administrator-to-student ratio. So what that tells me is, we never really built back this School District from the significant cuts that were made years ago, I think some time maybe around the time that Paul Vallas was the CEO. As the state went under -- as the District went under State control, there was significant cuts that we never built back from. So quite frankly, some of the funding that we're using federal dollars for, ARPA dollars for, are things that we just never really back filled some of those supports for schools over time. But the short answer to your question is yes. We are a securing as many -- we are exploring as many federal and other grants as we can through our grant's office. But we're not optimistic that it's going to be able to fill the lion share of the need at this time.
I certainly understand that. But I wanted to ask an additional question relative to your anticipated deficits. Does your anticipated deficit include or, I should say, with your anticipated deficit, what staffing percentages does that include? Meaning, you are projecting this number deficit. Are you anticipating being fully staffed in every staffing category? Or does that deficit account for certain percentages of vacancies in certain positions? And if so, what are they? And what are the percentages?
Chief Herbstman has joined the meeting from his car phone. Chief Herbstman, are you there?
Yes. Good afternoon again. And I apologize for having to step out for a second. So, we do not project all of positions to be present at all time. We do have a vacancy factor, which is a large negative number that we built into the budget. We do this based on historical rates across different positions. As we are looking for this year, we're actually looking to significantly increase those vacancy factors. Because this is a negative rate, we are not going to change our practices. We will always look to fully staff. But we believe that there is room to actually build in a larger negative number that will help reduce the deficit. That was shown on one of the slides earlier. We didn't get into the full details of it. But a portion of the work that we will be doing towards reducing that deficit is in there. This -- there are specific percentages that we use across different school types and different departments and different position types. So, I can't say exactly what the percentages are for each position. But it's based on the historical fill rates that we have had and the time that we have had between filing positions.
Okay. And one -- I just want to mention for the record, please, do not apologize for being a working parent like so many of us. But two, I just wanted to ask that question because my concern was around some of the positions that you all have been filling with folks outside of the District -- yes, with folks outside of the District. And so, I say that from personal experience. Because even this year thus far, my son has not had a speech therapist, as an example. And that's because you all have a difficulty, you know, with hiring speech therapists. And I know sometimes you all, you know, contract positions. But we want to try to fill as many positions internally to the District so you don't have to do that. So, that's why I wanted to know and understand what the vacancy rates were that you all anticipate when you would have this sort of fiscal cliff.
Thank you, Councilmember Gilmore-Richardson. We will take a look specifically at that issue relative to the hiring of the position you just referenced.
Okay. And then just for the record, if you can submit to the Chair, and thus, to the Members of Council, a list of all the vacancy rates that you anticipate for each position, you know, like teacher, you know, staff support. Just detail each of the positions and what you anticipate the vacancy rate would be at that time so that we have a better understanding for budgeting purposes. Now, I wanted to get on the record just a couple of questions, Mr. Chair, if you don't mind relative to leveling.
Thank you kindly, Mr. Chair. Because I was unable to get my hearing scheduled prior to the end of the year due to difficulty in scheduling. But I wanted to just revisit quickly, the District's policy on leveling. And if you can just state for the record the policy and then how it's implemented. And you know, not every school -- and we found this in the most recent process. Not every school has classes below the cap that gets leveled. So, how are these decisions being made relative to which schools and which classrooms are leveled versus others? And then, in this past year in 2023, 45 schools that have classes below cap did not get leveled. That's why I'm asking that question. So why?
I will take the first part of that, Councilmember Gilmore-Richardson. Thank you for the question. Because we follow guidelines with regard to maximum class sizes at certain grade levels driven by our relationship with our labor agreements with the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers, et cetera, we want to make sure the class sizes don't exceed a certain number. It's a big, high level way to think about this. And because our students don't come in nice bundles of twenty or twenty-two or twenty-three, we find at the beginning of the year, some classrooms have an overage. And some classes are very small. And so, we try to figure out a way to balance those. Now long story short, we are reviewing our processes because we have heard lots of feedback and the Board has asked us to do the same. And we are going to come back before the end of January with the Superintendent's findings and, more importantly, what we intend to do going forward to mitigate the impact on students, families and classrooms. That said, the second part of that question, I'll ask Chief Herbstman to speak to the second part of your question, which I think was related to why were some classrooms treated differently than others.
Yes, thank you. So with -- I'm not familiar with the exact 45 that you're talking about. But I do believe that there is continuing -- consistent practices across schools with a couple of exceptions. The one place where we did make exceptions was earlier in the process, we made -- we decided to do a partial hold harmless last spring for any school that was losing significant funding and, therefore, a significant number of positions. In order to be consistent across that, for those schools, some of which were criteria based, some of which were non-criteria based other schools, we decided that it would be appropriate not to do that hold harmless and then level them further later in the process. So, that might be the schools that you are referring to. But we'd be happy to comment on the list of schools if you are able to provide that.
Well, I mean, I think what would be helpful for us to ensure that the numbers are correct are if you could provide a list of all the schools that had classes below cap that did not get leveled. And then, oh, I think it was 59 schools that did experience some level of leveling. If you can just give us the full list of information for the committee. I know we have been corresponding internally with the District about this, but I think it's good information for my colleagues to have as we continue to move through this process in the budget -- upcoming budget process. And then, also, I think for us it feels as if there is not transparency around the process. It happens very quickly. And so, it happens without a lot of notice. And so, you will receive the information one week, and then the class is leveled the next week. In some cases, the class size can double particularly for the elementary school students. And so, my next question is around the special admission schools. Were there any special admission schools that were leveled this year? Any special admit schools.
First part of your question, your comment, Councilmember Gilmore-Richardson, we accept that feedback. We are committed to doing a much better job in the future depending on where we go with leveling, the enrollment resources review process better known as leveling. We are committed to making that process better. And we absolutely will communicate better going forward. Your point is well taken. In terms of any special admit or criteria-based schools if they experience leveling, Chief Herbstman, what's the data on that part?
So, they were looked at the same ways as the other schools with the exception of there were criterion-based 13 schools that were among the schools that received a partial hold harmless earlier that we did not level. (Fire engine heard.) I apologize. There's a fire truck going by my car. That we did not level further. As -- in terms of if there were any that were on the list of schools that were impacted on leveling, I would have to get that data to you.
If I could add something briefly just to remind everybody what happened. Dr. Watlington and myself and a few Board members greeted students who came to the School District. And rightfully so, we have amazing learners in the City of Philadelphia. And advocated that we do something about potential positions lost around -- I think they just mentioned. Just to kind of give context to why the Board -- why the District was able to hold harmless, and even in the background, we knew there might be unintended consequences. I think this is just an example where you have a lot of holes, and you're trying to plug holes hoping there will be less holes once we -- I'm a believer that we will be adequately funded. We will less have fees, kind of, to rob Peter to pay Paul. I just thought it was important to give that context. Not to mitigate or say your points are not well taken. They are definitely well taken. Just to give context. So, I thank you. Dr. Watlington.
Absolutely. Spot on President Streater. And Councilmember Gilmore-Richardson, I want to just remind Councilmembers that when the lottery was implemented a couple of years ago or in the past year, we had the unintended consequence of nearly 800 vacancies. Well, we've spent time meeting with principals. We had a two-day retreat with our principals of criteria-based schools. And also, met with some of our city-wide high school principals and already spent time with our Deputy Superintendent and members of the team. Long story short, we recognize that because some of the glitches and unintended consequences associated with launching the lottery helped to create some of the vacant seats in our criteria-based schools. So, we want to completely, to the extent we can, we want to own that. So, we thought it made sense to hold harmless -- at least, a partial hold harmless -- have a partial hold harmless because many of those schools to include the Philadelphia High School for Girls, your beloved alma mater. And we're committed this year. And we're currently working to ensure that we fill those seats with students who are -- who desire to be in those schools. And so, I look forward to sharing with President Streater and the Board progress this year toward filling those seats and ensuring that we don't have that unintended consequences anymore.
Okay. Thank you so much, Dr. Watlington and Board President Streater because I think it was multiple things happening, to your point. And it's just sort of like a conundrum that we are just trying to figure this out because all the things happened at the same time. Particularity, a ton of unintended consequences. I just want to get two more questions on the record. And I will reserve, so that we have -- okay -- so, that we have opportunity to more fully discuss this when we have the hearings in the new year. But are charter schools leveled? Why or why not? And then, can you all confirm that some schools -- and I don't want to name this particular school. That some schools class size caps are smaller than the rest of the School District? Meaning are there other schools in the District that have different class caps then what the policy dictates?
I will speak to the other charter issue. So as I mentioned I think in the hearing last week, there are currently 7,000 enrollment vacancies in our charter sector. And by law, we have no capacity or no ability to level or do anything that relates to what the charter schools are able to do with their staffing and their funding and things like that. We only get one bite at the apple, and that's during the non-removal moment where our charter framework, which is intended to -- intended to give the community a mechanism where the Board of Education and the City can provide there's a sense of trust, there's a standard of care that each family can have confidence in. And that standard can includes not just academic outcome or organizational compliance and financial wherewithal to ensure that the next five years, or however long the charter term is, we can all agree and say it and believe that any option in the City of Philadelphia, no matter where it is, there is based upon standard. I will give you the analogy. For example, if a hospital wants to open up in Pennsylvania, that provider has to go before the Board and their standards. And there is check-ins to make sure that there is a standard of care. So if anybody in Pennsylvania decides to go to any hospital, yes, you have a choice to go to any hospital. There is an assumption that that hospital is operating in a way where everybody has the baseline standard of care. So anyway, just kind of want to get that context to the listeners. We're not just talking to each other, we are also talking to the public. That's what the framework does. The framework attempts as much as possible to give guidelines and things of that nature as required by the law, best practices, City law, things like our Crown Act and things like that. Best practices. But as it relates to leveling and things like that, we don't have the capacity to go into those schools to do anything. All we can do is hold accountable and try to offer supports, which we do around our professional learning groups and other mechanisms. So anyway, I just want to get that concept. Thank you.
And I would, also, note that our charter schools are paid based on actual enrollment. So if their enrollment does go down, they --
Our charter schools are paid based on actual enrollment based on the rates -- the State rates. So if their enrollment goes down during the year or prior, they do lose funding as a result of that. But as President Streater said, it's not the same process because we don't control their levels of positions. They make those positions within their funding structure.
Understood. Yes. And I just wanted to go back to the question that I had regarding schools in the district that may or may not have different class caps than what the policy dictates.
Sure. Thank you, Councilmember Gilmore-Richardson. If I'm correct, the -- we follow in the District our labor guidelines with the PFT. Those are negotiated in our labor agreements. I believe kindergarten at a max is capped at no 6 greater than 30. I do believe there's some special arrangements related to our relationship with the University of Pennsylvania relative to Penn Alexander and the lead school. I will ask Deputy Superintendent Grant Skinner if he can speak to confirm the class size max in our labor agreement if you are there, Deputy Superintendent Grant Skinner or Dr. Dawson, Deputy of Academics. If either of you are there to verify. Okay. There you go.
Yes. I'm Jeremy Grant Skinner. The maximum at other grade levels is 33 -- 33 students per class.
Yes, I understand that. But I think my question is, is the leveling policy or the cap size different for different schools around leveling, not the maximum class size.
The decisions made through the process of leveling are based on the maximum class size. Chief Herbstman shared earlier how the hold harmless decision intersected with the impact for some schools with leveling. But the -- other than that, the decisions for leveling are based on whether the school is able to meet the class size maximums in the -- referred to there. So, they are one in the same. Those class size maximums are what are applied through that leveling process.
And Councilwoman Gilmore-Richardson, Mr. Grant Skinner is the Deputy Superintendent for talent, strategy and culture. So, he leads the human resources talent end of the organization. So, he would be the person who could speak to any other questions related to leveling.
Okay. That would be great. I wanted to just get that last question on the record because, I will be honest with you, I have six more. But I will reserve the balance of those questions for the hearing that we have on leveling in the new term so that we can more fully delve into this issue being as though you all have been so patient with us as we are going through the Commerce and Economic Development hearing today. And all of our time has been extended. I appreciate the time that has been given. And I look forward to continuing to work with you all on a number of issues that you all know that I know very personally as a graduate of the Philadelphia High School For Girls, our beloved alma mater, Masterman for Middle School as well as Gompers for Elementary School. And now having three children that I am just trying so hard to keep in the District, one who is graduating in June, and two who I will continue to work with as hard as I can in trying to keep them in the District. But I want to thank you all so much for the work that you're doing. I want to thank the teachers for the work that they do, all the professional staff at the schools, the principals, everyone for the work that they do to help us with our children and our young people each and every day. I appreciate each of them. And just really look forward to continuing to work with you all to make our district the very best in this country. So, thank you very, very much. And thank you, Mr. Chair for the leeway you have granted.
Thank you, Chair Councilmember Curtis Jones. I want to pose the following question to Dr. Watlington and also Board Chairman Streater. Given that the District uses ARPA funding, you know, for after-school programs and we -- we now know that ARPA funding is coming to a close, how are we going to continue to fund after-school programs as well as summer programs knowing that ARPA funding is coming to a close in the City of Philadelphia? Because what we do know, is that after-school programming and summer school program -- summer program, is really important for our young.
No. I just think what the District is proposing to do, hopefully to get the fully funding that we -- that I believe we are gong to get -- I know some people think I'm crazy. I'm an eternal optimist. Can't do this work without being an optimist I think. But what I think, the District is trying to do everything it can to mitigate the loss of funds by stretching out our fund balance. For those who may not understand what that means who are watching the meeting, that's when an institution has a quasi-surplus that's built up over time. And instead of just using it all at one time, I think the District is trying to find a way to wean itself off of it. So -- and I think the District -- I think Dr. Watlington has mentioned that he is trying to find ways to hold harmless as much as he can since that word came up earlier, any and all things that are closest to students. So, there might be some matriculation of reshuffling at 440, but I believe that the Superintendent's plan is to do as much as he can to hold harmless things that are the closest, which are teachers, obviously, anything that touches students. Dr. Watlington, do you want to add anything?
Yes, sir. I will say three things. Number one, we are going to continue to hold harmless where we can to mitigate the impact as best we can. Number two, we are going to tighten our belt where we can, notwithstanding the fact that we are a lean staffed organization. Not my opinion, we got an external audit -- a retro external group out of Washington, DC to do that audit for us. And the third thing is, the bottom line is we have to deal with the historic under-funding of this School District. And at some point, we just can't keep kicking the can down the road and say do more with less. And so, we want to make the case to all of our legislators, the Board and the staff are being good stewards of the tax dollars. And equally important, we are committed to always coming back to Council and to the State Legislature to say this is the return on investment that you are getting for every dollar you spend in the School District.
Thank you. I'm, also, committed to helping the School District of Philadelphia with this issue. You know, as I further support the Education Committee, you know, going to next year, I want to find ways to support you all with this because I come from a background of after-school program directorship. So, I just think it's incredibly -- you got to have quality after-school programs. That's another thing. But yeah, I want to make sure that we have those in place for our young people. And whatever advocacy and support we need, let's just keep that going.
Thank you, Member Phillips, for that insight. Those after-school programs are economic development stimulators for some parents who have to work and need that kind of care to cover those hours that they are not there to be with their children. So, thank you for those questions. Mr. Glass, are there any other questions.
Mr. Chairman, it does not appear there are any members wishing to be recognized at this time.
So with that, thank you for your testimony. We look forward to working with you in the new year to keep this progress moving forward. And so, all those who testified today, this concludes the Public Meeting of Committee of the Whole on the issue of public education. Thank you all very much for your patience. And thank you very much for your testimonies. Take care and good night. (Public Meeting adjourned at 6:29 p.m.) C E R T I F I C A T I O N I, hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence noted are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me in the foregoing matter, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. -------------------------- ANGELA M. KING, RPR,