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Minutes

Committee Hearing, May 12, 2004

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsMay 12, 2004

People mentioned

Names our system found in this transcript. Automatically extracted, so it can include anyone named in the record, not only officials or parties.

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE FY '05 OPERATING BUDGET - - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:45 a.m. - - - - BILL NO. 040255 PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILMAN JAMES KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS COUNCILMAN MICHAEL NUTTER COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN TASCO - - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Council President Verna

It is my understanding that we have approximately 67 witnesses that have asked to be heard today and we would like to hear everyone testify. With that being said, we will allotting each group five minutes to speak. Good morning. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Ms. Fischer

Good morning. My name is Joanne Fisher from the Maternity Care Coalition. I'm the Executive Director. I am joined by other Maternity Care Coalition staff, colleagues, volunteers and soon-to-be some clients. I am here to address two important issues: The survival of the MomMobile program in Philadelphia's neighborhoods and the healthcare crisis currently facing our City's childbearing families. In the past three years, 9 out of 33 OB units in Philadelphia have closed, the number of OB/GYN practices serving women on medical assistance was reduced by 27 percent, 3 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET and hospitals that were previously eager to contract with Maternity Care Coalition and City health centers to attract new patients are no longer interested, explaining that OB is too high risk, their institutions are at capacity or that too many families are uninsured. As you know, Health Commissioner Domzalski highlighted many of these issues in his budget address, and we appreciate his strong support for Maternal Child health initiatives. MCC, PCCY and others are ready to work with the Health Department and Council to encourage public hearings specifically on this growing health crisis for child-bearing families. A plan must be developed before market forces create even greater hardships. In this context, it is especially critical to maintain adequate funding for services to pregnant women, infants and families in Philadelphia's low-income neighborhoods. In only the first nine month of this year the MomMobile Program served 2,147 women and 2,256 children, a total of 4 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET 4,403 women and children in the City. Philadelphia City Council and the Health Department established the MomMobile program in 1988 following hearings on infant mortality. Since that the, MCC has leveraged City dollars with other government and private dollars to expand the MomMobile Program to nine Philadelphia neighborhoods. We've been able to triple your about $400,000 investment and serve nearly 5,000 each year. For years you have invested in an 13 infrastructure that has provided a crucial 14 safety net for over 48,000 families. If, as 15 we have been led to believe, the City is unable to fund the MomMobile at the current level, we will be forced to close down two or three MomMobile sites, leaving the residents of those neighborhoods without this important resource. What will that mean? I urge you to read the attached letters. Councilwoman Verna, a constituent of yours writes, "They helped me with maternity clothes when I was pregnant. I wasn't working at the time and really couldn't afford to buy 5 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET any. " Councilwoman Reed Miller, from your district, "I stand as a woman who needs that care, someone to share for I and my child have dreamed to be. Please keep the program running. I don't have anyone to catch us if we fall. From the Latino MomMobile, Councilman Mariano and Ramos, translated from Spanish, "They have been there for me, the mother I never had. When I came to this country, I didn't know anyone. They helped me with the barriers I faced in this country with my language and other obstacles, taught me how to be a good mother and responsible. They directed me on where I could complete my GED and learn English. Councilwoman Tasco, your constituent says, "The MomMobile is important to me and my family because they have all that is needed in the community, such as HIV prevention. Without education, mothers would pass the HIV virus to their newborn baby. To Councilwoman Krajewski, "I am a 6 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET young teenage mother who didn't know much about babies. They gave me great support through all my problems with family members and friends. And from Strawberry Mansion, Councilman Clarke, "I think that if it wasn't for the MomMobile, I would be on the Street living with my newborn. The MomMobile helped me with housing.

Ms. Fischer

In just a couple of months, I will be in my own place with my son. MomMobile also helped pay for the transportation to get back and forth to the clinic during my pregnancy. They helped me with formula when my WIC check ran out. And Councilwoman Blackwell, one of your constituents here today has found meaning in his life after five strokes and terrible isolation when his aunt invited him to visit MCC's Healthy Start Resource Center on Lancaster Avenue. He has been volunteering every since. " In addition to these testimonials, 7 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET independent research indicates that families who participate in the MomMobile program are better able to set goals for themselves, more knowledgeable about healthy behaviors and community resources and see themselves as empowered to take care of themselves and their families. Many of us began this week appreciating our mothers. At MCC, we support and acknowledge mothers every day. We notice when moms put their babies to sleep on their backs, when they take their children for immunizations, when they graduate high school or get a job. We make sure that mothers who have too few resources and too many burdens get the education, support and recognition they need. We are encouraged by our recent discussions with the health department leadership. They recognize the value of the MomMobile and are searching for ways to keep these services available. We ask you to recommit to this partnership at the same level as last year so 8 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET that together we can create healthier communities and strengthen families one baby at a time. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Any questions from Members of the Committee? The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me just make sure I'm understanding the testimony. Your funding last year, was it the $400,000 for the current fiscal year?

Ms. Fischer

For the current fiscal year in funding from Title 5 and immunization, it was $375,000, but the immunization funding was not for a full year.

Councilman Nutter

And that was out of the Health Department?

Councilman Nutter

And you've been notified that it was being completely cut?

Ms. Fischer

We've been notified 9 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET that there's been a shift in priorities and that those funds would not be available. But the Health Department now is in conversation looking hopefully for other sources of funds.

Councilman Nutter

Just one last question. When you said that they explained that there had been a shift in priorities, what was the shift to?

Ms. Fischer

A focus on more intensive case management program for parents of newborns.

Councilman Nutter

For parents and --

Ms. Fischer

Which would serve about 400 families in the City.

Councilman Nutter

Did that have anything to do with the types of services that you provide?

Ms. Fischer

Our programs serves a less intensive intervention for a much larger group of families. Also, our program is for pregnant women as well as new parents.

Councilman Nutter

What's your 10 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET sense of -- when you said the Health Department said that they were going to seek alternative funding, do you have any sense of the possibility of success in that regard?

Ms. Fischer

I'm very hopeful, and we have another meeting scheduled for this week.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you very much.

Ms. Fischer

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. We appreciate you coming in to testify. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Ms. Yanoff

Good morning. My name is Shelly Yanoff. I'm Executive Director of Philadelphia Citizens for Children and Youth, which is the outside government regional child 11 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET advocacy organization. The City that wants to be a City of readers with its One Book - One Philadelphia Initiative is proposing the cut general fund library services by more than two and a half million dollars. The proud city of neighborhoods, home to more than 400,000 children, many of them at risk, is threatening to cut 62 recreation sites and more than $7 million from its recreation budget. The same city of neighborhoods which is closing recreation centers because of lack of money is increasing its subsidy to the Pennsylvania Convention Center by $5 million. 8 million to one of the new stadiums for maintenance and upkeep to make sure that rich people can come to town and have fun. The city whose movers and shakers want tax cuts to attract people and businesses is planning to provide $1 million over four 12 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET years to the Chamber of Commerce to conduct a campaign to help them make money for more business. The city that is making news by supporting college scholarships for low-income kids is at the same time cutting its contribution to Community College, the college that most of the City's needy children depend on for post-high school education. The city that is facing a crisis in the availability of maternity care, prenatal care and hospital beds is proposing to cut its outreach efforts to pregnant women. The city that is long waiting lists for outpatient/inpatient mental health treatment for families and increasingly for children is proposing to cut its support for mental health care by a million dollars. The city whose museums provide exposure to art and culture for tens of thousands of children, families and adults and attracts more tourists than its heavily taxpayer-supported teams is proposing to end its vital contribution to the Philadelphia 13 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Museums of Art, the Atwater Kent Museum, home of the City's own history, as well as to various small community arts and culture programs which are critically important. What's wrong with this picture? Plenty. Yet at the same time, there are many things in this budget that are right. We support the City's contribution of $35 million to our schools. Good schools are vital to attracting families and keeping them here. We support the increases proposed by the Department of Human Services for abuse prevention dollars largely from the state and federal government. It's less costly in both human and fiscal sense to prevent something from happening than to fix it once it's been broken. Particularly when it comes to children, preventing abuse and neglect and strengthening families in our communities is the first and best strategy for children to grow up whole and healthy. We strongly support the Scholarship Fund and urge that it be used for all needy 14 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Philadelphia students, those in public as well as those in parochial schools. We strongly support the promised allocation of more police to neighborhoods outside of and around our schools. We support the increase funding for domestic violence. Too many of our families suffer. They need more attention. The City needs to increase its capacity to provide safe havens. We support the city's ongoing progress in getting the lead out of our children's lives. And Council has been critical in this, as in all of the other things. And we support the efforts to develop more and better housing for current and future Philadelphians. But as we set and pursue these worthwhile priorities, we must hold our children and families harmless. And the budget doesn't do that. We understand that this is a difficult time, but it is in these times that we need to take extra care to hold on to what's working for people.

Ms. Yanoff

From our 15 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET health centers where we need more hours to our pools where kids can find safety and fun to the museums that feed our spirit and attract visitors to our libraries which are beacons of hope in many of our communities, all these priorities are essential to the well being and quality of life for Philadelphians. Our proposal. 8 million in payments they are to receive from the City this year for their publically subsidized new home. Times for the Gas Works are hard. They're also hard for the children and families of our City. We ask you as policymakers to postpone or reject a $6 million increase in the Convention Center subsidy. We ask that the City Council reject any more give-aways to business that then cause an end to services that all of us need. 16 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET We should practice zero tolerance on TIFs and other failed efforts. And we ask the Chamber of Commerce to pay for its Select Philadelphia Campaign. We ask that you find ways to continue to support the arts in our City, including our museums and cultural programs. We believe these are extraordinary times and it's more important than ever to offer safe harbors for children and families. Our kids need to be able to select a pool close to home to swim in this year, a fully staffed and clean recreation center to play in, a health center to be treated in, an art program to participate in, a library to think in. We ask that as Council people you trim expenses with selectivity and care and invest in these scarce resources. We ask that you hold our children harmless. 2 million 17 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET back into the Art Museum. Let's put our upkeep where it belongs. If Council refrain from expanding the subsidy for the Convention Center this year, we could put the $1 million back into Behavioral Health to help decrease waiting lists, add 1 million in to prenatal care outreach as was just testified about so that our babies are born as healthy as they can be with mothers who are prepared to care for them. We could increase the care and hours at our health centers which are the only place the increasing immigrant families can get medical attention. We can put $750,000 back into Community College, make whole the City's Arts and Cultural Funds and increase support for housing initiatives. We know it isn't easy. These are hard times, but we ask you to really do what you can to do this. Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any questions or comments from Members of the Committee? (No response.) 18 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Council President Verna

Thank you again, Shelly. Good morning. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Ms. Borgerhoff

Good morning. My name is Jane Bogerhoff, I'm Director of Center City Crime Victim Services, and I'm here on behalf of the City victim service agencies. Actually, Frank Servone from Support Center for Child Advocates and Stephanie Mayweather from East Division Crime Victims Services will be speaking to you this morning.

Council President Verna

We do have a copy of your testimony which will be the stenographer. It will be transcribed in full, so if you could abbreviate your comments, we would appreciate it.

Mr. Servone

Thank you, Madam President and Members of Council. It's good to see you here this morning in this important initiative to listen to the people. We were here on Monday. We heard your concerns. We heard the concerns of the community that costs 19 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET are high, that revenue is down. We ask you to not re-victimize victims of crime by allowing them to fend their way through a system that is so very insensitive to their needs. Ms. Mayweather and I represent -- I'm Frank Servone, the Director of the Support Center for Child Advocates in Philadelphia. Ms. Mayweather will follow me. We together represent victim service agencies from this 11 community who stand with children, with the 12 elderly, with the disable, with those who need companions in the court system. The City provides funding the supplement our charitable dollars to provide services to our client populations, court room 17 accompaniment, advocacy and other services to more than 40,000 victims of crime each year. In this difficult economic climate, both our work load and our costs continue to rise dramatically. I heard with you on Monday complaints about reduced increases in pension benefits to some classes of City workers. I can assure you that most of our agencies have 20 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET virtually no retirement programs. Our salaries are dramatically below the public sector, and we're providing a public function. A cut in our funding will result in reductions of services to our City's most vulnerable citizens. We respectfully urge this Council to maintain support for crime victims at the 2003-2004 levels. You may recall that our funding comes through the District Attorney's budget. She has recommended that our budget be reduced less dramatically than proposed by City government but that she would accept a decrease. She's elected to recommend to this body that her reductions come from personnel, not from victim services. We join her request. In short, we ask for the continued funding of $640,000 in our Class 250 line in the District Attorney's budget. I give you Ms. Mayweather for her brief remarks.

Ms. Mayweather

I'll be as brief as I can. 21 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Most are not aware of victims services of victims rights until they themselves have become victims of crime or someone close to them. We read about these violent acts every day in the newspapers, we hear about these violent acts every day on the news. "Boy shot on way to school. Girl, 9, bites hand of would-be kidnapper. Nun attacked in Germantown. Teen accused of covering up girl's death. Woman sexually assaulted in the Northeast. Mother of five slain, shot to death in North Philadelphia. Cab driver found shot to death in West Philadelphia." That's seven headlines, one for every day of the week. Victim service agencies assists scores of victims who do not make the headlines. We are now seeing an abundance of child victim homicides, children being murdered, shot, stabbed, raped. Innocence slowly disappearing. Since the beginning of this school year, since September, we have seen child homicides, that's 26. There are 22 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET only 52 weeks in a year. That's one child every other week, one child biweekly. Most of us get paid biweekly, so just imagine every time you pick up your paycheck, a child has been murdered. That's children, 26 7 families, 26 communities in crisis. 8 Twenty-six children, that is one entire 9 classroom of children being wiped out by 10 violence in the City of Philadelphia. 11 Now, I'm going to wrap this up. I 12 just want -- I brought a picture today. I 13 just want to show our picture. I want you to 14 brace yourselves because this picture is 15 pretty startling. I'm going to show you a 16 picture. It's a face of a victim of a violent 17 crime in the City of Philadelphia. What it 18 is, it's a mirror. It's a mirror. It's your 19 reflection. It's to show you that you could 20 be a victim of a violent crime in the City of 21 Philadelphia. Thank you. 22

Council President Verna

Thank you. 23 (Applause.) 24

Council President Verna

When the 25 District Attorney was in, she spoke about her 23 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET budget but she did not elaborate. She did mention some of the programs, but we did not get a dollar figure attached to the program. Were you cut by $640,000?

Council President Verna

What is your budget this year and what are they reflecting in '05?

Mr. Servone

From 640,000 to, I believe, around 594,000. Remember, these are -- the DA budget for us or City Council budget, all of our budgets are substantially higher. Your dollars are essentially supplementing our own substantial efforts in fund-raising.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Madam President. This is an area where I have a lot of interest. We've tried to work with Victim Witness directors and the offices closely. So 24 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET many of us have had our share of crime in the City. Unfortunately, too often, several days a week. And we are certainly hopeful that in the final analysis we work things out, because the Victim Witness Service Program is one where victims of crime are contacted and are offered services, everything from counseling to burial to who knows what. We had in the Lex Street murders, the greatest massacre in the City, and we work closely with them across the board. So I'm hopeful, Madam President, that everything gets worked out and so that the Victim Witness Service Program, especially in West and Southwest where we've had some issues, that we can resolve the issues and move forward, because we definitely need service. Thank you for your testimony.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. Are there any other questions or comments from Members of the Committee? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Seeing none, thank you so much for coming in. We 25 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET appreciate your testimony.

Mr. Mcpherson

The next witness is Mark Schweiker, Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce.

Council President Verna

Good morning. Welcome.

Mr. Schweiker

Good morning, Madam President and Members of Council.

Council President Verna

Excuse me. Before you start, do we have copies of your testimony?

Mr. Schweiker

Yes. We were here, as you likely know, on Monday, and provided advanced copies.

Council President Verna

Yes. I'm sorry we couldn't to you, but I know you were in a hurry. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Schweiker

Mark Schweiker, President and CEO of the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce.

Council President Verna

Please proceed. 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Schweiker

Thank you. And with me are Joe Mahoney, Executive Vice President of the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce, and Denise Early who tends so ably to City Hall affairs for the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce. I come before you today to offer testimony on the Fiscal Year 2005 budget proposal. As you know, the GPCC is 5,500 strong, with each member having their own special needs and demands. In a perfect world, there would be no wage tax, no deficit and no need to think of closing swimming pools and recreation centers. But this is not a perfect world and, therefore, you must make careful choices. The Chamber has always supported fiscally responsible tax reform, tax reform that would entice employers to do business here and their employees to live here. We are pleased to see the proposed continuation of reductions in the gross receipts and wage taxes contained in this budget proposal. Yes, we would like deeper and quicker cuts in these 27 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET taxes and we strongly believe they hamstring the business community, but as long as they continue to spiral downward, we believe the trend is our friend. We are ever hopeful that when gaming is passed in Harrisburg, and I believe and would hope that it will pass, we will get additional relief on the wage and property taxes. The Tax Reform Commission did a stellar job over the summer, and I personally testified on their findings before this Council not once but twice. Again, the GPCC's strong position on meaningful fiscally responsible tax reform remains our mantra. Now, not in a position to pick or choose nor to pit one tax recommendation against the other in the sea of bills before you. We need continued tax reform that will help us grow our businesses and our population. We need jobs. It is my job to shepherd 5,500 members and ensure that the remain in this region. Without meaningful tax reform on the 28 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET horizon, those who can will surely leave. I'm passionate about the need for economic growth in the City and the region. While I fully understand and appreciate there is a big hole in the budget this year, I'd hate to see us cut off our nose despite our face. I'm alarmed that some of the proposed cuts would pose great difficulty on the economy of our great City. Some of the proposed cuts seem shortsighted in that they would reduce the people flowing into Center City to attend cultural and educational events, thereby reducing revenues and generating a negative multiplier effect for the City's bottom line. Although tax reform is a main focus of the Chamber, there are other areas of concern in the budget proposal that I would like to address at this time. It is a concern that the proposed increase in the parking tax will have a negative impact on our hospitality industry -- (Applause.)

Mr. Schweiker

-- by convincing would-be attendees that premiere events like 29 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET the Annual Flower Show to stay home, visitors of the life blood of downtown Philadelphia. Increases in the tax can negatively impact arts and culture, sporting events and a host of other industries including shopping. Shoppers can go to suburban mall where parking is plentiful and free. The ripple effect will be real, and increases in parking rates will further the City's high price of doing business perception. I'd like to interject a few words of support for the fantastic service our Philadelphia Community College provides to the local economy. (Applause.)

Mr. Schweiker

It should be said, celebrating its 40th anniversary, Philadelphia Community College currently supports 46,000 students. And just last Sunday, they graduated their largest class ever, 1,808 graduates. In a recent speech, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board Alan Greenspan highlighted the good work of these two-year 30 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET institutions by stating that productivity in the United States has increased generation after generation, creating ever-rising standards of living. Our knowledge-based skills in a business environment have enabled our workforce to create ever greater value added. The avenues to acquiring those skills -- and this is the point. The avenues to acquiring those skills are many. And one effective tool that we have developed to facilitate the transition to a new job or profession has been our community colleges. (Applause.)

Mr. Schweiker

Community colleges have been in the forefront of teaching the types of skill that build on workers' previous experiences to create new job skills. I'd hate to see potential students forego higher education due to the rising cost of tuition. , taking approximately 65 of our members to the Capital to here from our delegation on both the House and Senate sides. Interestingly enough, 31 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Congressman Rob Andrews from New Jersey touted regional cooperation and even used his daughters -- it happened to be Take Your Daughter to Work Day -- as props. His point being that even though he had a New Jersey zip code in southern New Jersey, as we all know, he had a Philadelphia brand. His daughters row on the Schuylkill and perform at the Academy of Music and at the Kimmel Center. , and yes, the home of our very own Smarty Jones. " Now, I sat on the Regional Cooperation Committee of the 21st Century Review Forum chaired by Aqua America CEO Nick DeBenedictis . The overall finding of the Committee is that the strengths and weaknesses of Philadelphia greatly impact the success of 32 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET the region as a whole. The Committee further embraced the need for a regional consortium to meet once each quarter to continue an ongoing dialog on issues of common concern and to encourage the precepts of smart growth. Folks -- and I don't have to convince anyone here about the virtue of this -- we need to shout this message from our rooftops. The City and region are in it together. Thanks to the Administration's early support and your encouragement, the Chamber seeks to hold up its end and spread this regional promotion message through the Select Greater Philadelphia Campaign. Select Greater Philadelphia is a business marketing initiative dedicated to attracting, growing and retaining regional businesses to the Greater Philadelphia Region. This region has long suffered from a poor image as a business location. Often it's seen as a second tier location for businesses and talent. In addition, the region simply has not sold itself. Businesses and visitors who are interested in the region have found it 33 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET difficult to find information, access contacts and get assistance when deciding on whether to locate here. Up until now, there simply has not been a one-stop shopping location for businesses and people to visit which represented the entire Greater Philadelphia region. Select Greater Philadelphia bridges and fills this gap, embracing the full 11-county region while working in conjunction with other economic development and marketing organizations. The goal of Select Greater Philadelphia is to attract growth and retain businesses in the Greater Philadelphia. Through the repositioning of Greater Philadelphia as a first tier business location. In its first 12 to 18 months, the goal is to introduce Select Greater Philadelphia to a regional, national, and international audience, define the regional benefits, differentiate the region, and support local fund-raising efforts. Over a longer term, the goal is to move Greater Philadelphia to the short list of cities, and 34 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET from there, win new businesses to the region. Marketing will be directed to audiences inside and outside the region, including location decision-makers and regional stakeholders. A seven-phase strategy will lead to select success, specifically intercept, entice, inform, fulfill, welcome and entertain, deliver, and ultimately select. Select Greater Philadelphia will capture the intention of the decision-makers, pique their interest, communicate the wealth of the region and this City's strengths and assets, fulfill their needs, bring in prospects for firsthand experiences, tailor their programs and packages to fit their organization, and in the end win their business.

Mr. Schweiker

Select Greater Philadelphia is the first initiative of its kind in the region than and represent unprecedented collaboration to create this initiative. It will be a program that will build over time with the potential of significant returns. Now, one of the cornerstones in our attraction efforts must focus on quality of 35 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET life. The arts and culture community is a large dimension of those efforts. For example, the Philadelphia Museum of Art attracts approximately 1 million visitors annually. 5 million in tax revenues to the City and Commonwealth in Fiscal Year '03. So let me take this occasion to acknowledge the support provided by members of this Council to restore most of the slashed funding for this facility. The Chamber was very instrumental in securing a multimillion dollar grant for new lighting along the Parkway to enhance attendance, not to keep it in the dark. The arts and culture institutions are vital to the City's economic success. 5 million in wages and sales taxes, and supports $564 million spending in the five counties. 2 million. This drop to the arts and cultural allocation is disproportionate as it represents a 64 percent total cut in arts funding. A lively cultural scene contributes to neighborhood vitality in many, many ways. While many public schools are no 12 longer able to provide students with arts and culture education and opportunities, a total of 229 -- and this is remarkable -- a total of 229 area non-profit cultural organizations offer programs and services to the City's children. And research proves that children who study the arts more likely to attend school regularly, to graduate, to earn higher SAT scores, and to continue on to college. Almost 60 percent of young college graduates living or working in Center City viewed Philadelphia's arts and cultural events as a comparative strength versus other cities. We win because of the robust in art and 37 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET cultural sector in Greater Philadelphia and in this City. Fortune Magazine rated Philadelphia third as the best City in the US in which to work and live, citing the regions arts and cultural assets as key to that standing. Let me give special thanks at this point and acknowledgment here for your support of the ACE INA TIFF bill that received final passage on April 22nd. This is a prime example to keeping 1,000 good-paying jobs in the City, thereby continuing the tax revenue stream generated to the ACE INA to this City. In other good economic news for the City, a biotech firm, AppTec Labs, a pharmaceutical manufacturing business has moved in at the old Philadelphia navy base, employing at this point 160 full-time high-end jobs. , one of the largest employers in Center City, has decided to keep its corporate headquarters at Liberty Place through 2016; CIGNA employees, a total OF 3,000 in the Philadelphia area. It would be nice, however, to not need special incentives 38 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET to keep major employers in town. Again, meaningful tax reform would eliminate the need for these special perks. I was heartened by the Mayor's plan and interest in development of miles of 7 waterfront property that will establish 8 Philadelphia as the New River City in America. 9 Not only will this be good as a tourist 10 attraction which will benefit the hospitality 11 industry, it also will surely enhance property 12 values throughout the City. 13 Let me also say the Chamber looks 14 forward to working with Commerce Director 15 Stephanie Nadoff this summer on the economic summit with high hopes of retaining and winning new employers for this City and region. As I finish up, just inclines me to mention a popular say, as Philadelphia goes, so goes the region.

Mr. Schweiker

Finally, me say that the Mayor has taken a bold step forward in his efforts to right-size government by proposing to close or sell some facilities in order to balance the 39 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET budget. The Chamber has long been a proponent of asset sales and right-sizing of government as a means of increasing revenue, particularly in light of the escalating deficit. May I also suggest that the City be more strident in the collection of taxes and fees. And I know that other organizations have addressed the need for that development. I believe one of the findings of the Tax Reform Commission was that if collections went up by just 1 percent, the City could realize $20 million in annual revenue. And, Madam President, thank you so much for the opportunity to be heard today.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. And thank you for coming in. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you, Madam President. Governor, thank you for your testimony. I agree with you. Two of the probably craziest things we can do is raise 40 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET the parking tax in Philadelphia. (Applause.)

Councilman Kenney

Which obviously is too high now and drives people to suburban malls and especially gives us a bad reputation when it comes to special events in the City because some gouging does go on, as is expected. And the other thing is the reduction in operating subsidy to the Art Museum, which probably brings in more -- it does bring in more visitors and hotel rooms and spending than the four sports teams combined. What I'm a little bit confused about is the Chamber's position on the Tax Reform Commission's recommendations. Is the Chamber recommending that I as a Councilmember vote for all the provisions that are represented in the bills introduced by Councilman Nutter or not?

Mr. Schweiker

Well, it's not easy to provide you a simple to what is -- you folks live it every day when you examine budget, a complex question and a complex 41 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET budget. Our preference is that as it relates to tax reform, that while the possibility of all of it being installed within the budget in '05, probably is difficult to achieve. With some action toward that end this year and not abandoning the idea of improving the City's tax model in years to come that we could live with here.

Councilman Kenney

I've been here since 1992. And I guess in --

Mr. Schweiker

Let me add one, Councilman Kenney. It's probably a year ago, I probably on behalf 5,000 businesses would have given you a more strident response. But the economic reality that seizes this City's revenue collection performance cannot be ignored. There's been a slow-down. It makes it tough, given that economic backdrop to plow ahead and install all of the suggested reforms. You know, some things got to be give picture. And someone who has -- I've got a good 15 budgets under my belt. I was not a legislator. I was in the executive branch every step of my public career way. It ain't 42 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET easy, and this year is not easy. And to that end, ours is a measured response. It would be wonderful if revenue collections were up and growing in double digit ways and we could install some of this reform this year, but it is not the picture.

Councilman Kenney

I guess the other dilemma is that since I've been here and since we've been instituting incremental tax reductions both on the wage and business tax side, we've continued to see a growing loss of population and jobs. So it seems that the incremental kind of reasonable tax reform that the Administration touts just does not work. And my concern is -- I asked this question to David Thornberg the other day. I don't see this government, with its shrinking population tax base or City and its growing population of people of need, how we ever get a point in our history going forward where it will ever be the right time to take the measures necessary to take this City from a City that employs people through government and institutions to a City that employs people through the private 43 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET sector. If the private sector does not return and continues to leave, we have a self-fulfilling prophecy of death. And it is hard, it's going to be hard for the Mayor, it's going to be hard for Members of this Council, it's going to be hard for the government in general to deal with the fallout of what happens if we do what the Tax Reform Commission is recommending. But I think at some point in time if we don't do it or we try to inch our way into it, we're never going to the effect that we need to turn the government around.

Mr. Schweiker

I wouldn't quarrel with your assessment and your anxiety about what future awaits us. Like you, my wife and I are raising our kids here and we want them to be here and feel a sense of promise about the City and the region. So it concerns me, too, and I'm the voice to close to 6,000 member businesses that have the same kind of concern. But these are folks that make budgets every year, and they too realize that their top line has diminished. Expenses creep 44 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET up, and it just makes it tough. I don't think -- that's why I mentioned a moment ago, in a perfect world with rising revenue collections maybe this was the year to just install impressive recommendations brought forth by the Tax Reform Commission. Hopefully, there will be a more supportive set of economic circumstances in years to come to be more aggressive.

Councilman Kenney

The problem is, I don't see that because we went through probably one of the greatest booms in this country's economic history, and we still did not benefit as a City the way other regions and other cities benefited, a lot because of the structure of our government and spending.

Mr. Schweiker

Well, that has to be discussed categorically. I mean, depending on the industry sector, there was profound growth, even with some questionable public budgeting practices. And, yes, some industry sectors have weakened for sure. But I would, just to add in some remarks as it relates to the tax model of the City, you know the 45 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET prospect of the wage tax reduction being financed by the gaming legislation half a point is not an insignificant development. I think it's a very significant development. And I would hope, and you're all involved in political prognostication as I am, you don't know what the State Legislature will do. But we're ever so hopeful that that half a point drop comes to pass. That would be significant.

Councilman Kenney

I think that happened in the future that would be tremendous adjust our budget and our tax reduction issues to match that extra income. But I think to kind of wait for that to happen, as you know, sitting at the front of that Senate for as many years as you have, you can see that things sometimes don't happen. And I just want to end by saying, part of the dilemma here is that the people who proposed this tax reform are sometimes pitted or portrayed as they don't care about the issues of providing for social services and other things. I think the contrary is the 46 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET case. I think that if you provide tax reform which grows the private sector economy, there will be plenty of money to help with libraries and schools and keeping families here and paying for rec centers and paying for social services when the only area of revenue for those social services in a diminishing tax base that's continuing to go, we're not doing those poor and needy people any good at all by not changing the way we look at our government. (Applause.)

Mr. Schweiker

The reality of those who have to make decisions on the budget, whatever public position, is that a question has to be answered, "Will they manifest in this fiscal year --

Councilman Kenney

Probably not.

Mr. Schweiker

And I think under the heading of routine prudence which is what is expected of public office holders who literally raise their hand to take an oath and back a budget that genuinely is in balance, that its expenses won't out run what you 47 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET expect to collect in revenue, and parenthetically, that revenue level comes from tax rates. If that exercise doesn't create a balance and you and sincerely so believe that that's going to occur in the next months, 7 then it makes it questionable. Perhaps people 8 could be hurt. Is that possible in this 9 particular fiscal year? It makes it very, 10 very tough, and that's my observation that 11 it's a tough decision for Members of Council 12 as well as the Mayor.

Councilman Kenney

And I will end on this. I think the people are being hurt now. I think the tax policies of our government over the past years have hurt 17 people tremendously. And in the 12-month 18 period of pain compares nothing to the pain 19 that's been going on for the last 20, 25 20 years.

Mr. Schweiker

I don't want to quarrel with your assessment. The Chamber sees itself as a proponent of improving the stage for creating the circumstances that lead to significant 48 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET economic growth, whether it is advocacy for a more attractive tax model to the Select Greater Philadelphia. Let me just mention this to you, Madam President, we're the fourth biggest metro area in the country. We're still a mighty economic force, with the fifth biggest city, which may lose that status soon as we know. However, in terms of promoting ourselves, as we talk about the potency of Select Greater Philadelphia, we don't behave like the fourth biggest region. We don't promote ourselves. We don't have a marketing effort like a place like Charlotte or Atlanta, or Phoenix Scottsdale employs. And in part, it explains our economic weakness. I'm not suggesting for one moment that we ignore the fundamentals of hard tax policy that make us unattractive. But perhaps I could answer it or finish up the comment this way. Could you imagine the fourth biggest airline trying to conduct itself nationally or internationally do business and not market itself? Well, they would not. They'd go out of business. It's 49 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET preposterous. Well, friends, here we are, the fourth metro area, and we're doing just that. I mean, Charlotte's not only beating at Lincoln Financial Field for the NFC Championship, they're beating us on the figurative field with economic and job growth, and in part because they spend 5 million per year promoting their place as a profitable area to do business. And so there are other ways we can create the economic stage and one of them is promoting our region.

Councilman Kenney

I think we'd probably have to make the City a profitable area to do business before we advertise it as such. Because from the region, I understand, from the City's perspective, it's a pretty hard sell when you talk about economic advantage when it's really not here within the city limits. Thank you.

Mr. Schweiker

Every City has its blemishes, keep that in mind, across the country. But we can accent the positive and generate economic growth.

Council President Verna

Thank you. 50 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, Mr. President. One background informational question for me. And if you don't have it, if you could please forward a profile of the membership of the Greater Philadelphia Chamber, the percentage of those members that reside in Philadelphia and the surrounding counties, types of businesses that they generate, that would be very helpful.

Mr. Schweiker

We can do that.

Councilman Kenney

Just a point of information on the net analysis. On top of what the Councilwoman has asked for, could you talk about the number of employees, the number of jobs within the City that your Chamber members represent in addition to the number of residents?

Mr. Schweiker

Sure, we can generate that.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you. 51 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, Governor Schweiker. Governor, I'm trying to reconcile a couple pieces of information. I read through your testimony and I also have Mr. Mahoney's testimony, which I think both of you were maybe trying to give on Monday. Sorry for the compressed schedule. I listened to the testimony, I read the testimony, and I heard your responses to a couple questions. We are at that point where the real decisions have to be made, and we've had a Tax Reform Commission, we've had a 21st Century Review Forum, we've had hearings in general back in February on the tax matters which, again, your testimony actually reflects that you testified at. What I'm trying to resolve, at least for myself, is I see the statement 52 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET that talks about fiscally responsible tax reform that you're certainly pleased with the current reductions that are proposed in the budget. I guess what I'm still trying to reconcile is, the Chamber had a member which Mr. Mahoney's testimony recognizes Mr. Vandenbrul, and before the merger, Greater Philadelphia First also appointed a member Stuart Weintraub, a well-known attorney and a bit of a tax expert in his own right and there have been also meetings, I think, of the Tax Committee within the Chamber. I can't speak for my colleagues, but I have had a number of business people, small and large, indicate that they need further relief in order for Philadelphia to progress. And Mr. Mahoney's testimony reminds us that there was a letter from the CEO Council. I mean, these are big name companies, big name people signed a letter indicating that they supported the recommendations of the Tax Reform Commission. You mentioned your own service on the 21 Century Review Forum and there were many other well-known people 53 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET involved with that. What I'm hearing in the testimony is certainly different than what I read in the letter from the 40 plus CEOs which said pass the tax reform package. At the announcement of the package, there was great support for it in many members of the business community. And now I'm hearing almost you, "Well, you should just keep doing what you've been doing because you can't do anything else." And I guess I'm concerned about that message, given all that has happened and certainly the critical role and position that you hold. The two members appointed by the business community have been very strong, vocal proponents who I think you know and respect for their work. So I need, I guess, some clarification.

Mr. Schweiker

Sure. Hopefully, when I'm finished, Joe Mahoney can give his remarks and then perhaps there can be more extended exchange on this. But Councilman Nutter, I think whether it's the CEO Council for Growth or myself, one particular 54 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET preference and outlook doesn't change. We're encouraging the Council in tandem with the Mayor to pursue all that's doable. I think that sometime during the beginning of the year absent the growing deficit number, I don't think anyone had a good handle on what would be the off referenced deficit number during the budget creation season for the City what it would be back then. Yes, without a doubt, once the Tax Reform Commission was culminated that everyone was clamoring for let's get these installed. And I don't think anyone was of the mind that the economic weakness would descend upon the City's revenue performance to the extent that it would be. Thus, the belief and the preference that you do what is doable this year, that doesn't change the Chamber's preference that we pursue tax reform; it's when you do it.

Councilman Nutter

Well, I appreciate that, but it also doesn't change the underlying imperative for all the circumstances and conditions that caused the Tax Reform Commission to say what they said or 55 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET the Century Review Forum, or anyone else. I would also suggest back, and you and I have a great working relationship, that I think we're at a point where we can't just do what we think is doable. I think we have to do what is required of us. (Applause.)

Councilman Nutter

The one thing we 10 know for sure is if we keep doing what we've 11 been doing. 12

Mr. Schweiker

You keep getting 13 what you've always got. That's a Texas -- 14

Councilman Nutter

Is that where it 15 came from? I never got far out of West 16 Philly, so I don't know about that. 17 I mean we can't continue on the same 18 path. It will absolutely, positively, 19 guaranteed as we are sitting here get us what 20 we have gotten, which is the largest loss of 21 population of any county in the United States of America since 2000, the largest amount of job loss, biggest population loss possibly in the last 40, 50 years as a City. You mentioned earlier, the data is coming up 56 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET according to a professor at the University of Pennsylvania, I think next Thursday, May 17th, we're supposed -- as if it's the prediction of the eclipse of the sun, we're supposed to possibly slip into sixth place. Part of the reason we ended up here was because of the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce. Two years ago, come the 23rd of last month, we concluded one discussion and started another. That's when the wage tax bill got signed, after tremendous activism and public encouragement and support by the Greater Philadelphia Chamber, and we want to maintain that kind of working relationship but also advocacy. I mean --

Mr. Schweiker

So you're of the mind that this all has to be done this fiscal year?

Councilman Nutter

There are matters that need to take place this fiscal year. They probably should have taken place last fiscal year. I think notwithstanding much of the discussion and writings and you can take it to the next step of even 57 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET propaganda, I mean, the City is not going to fall apart based on this first year in the package or anyone's version of the package. (Applause.)

Councilman Nutter

I need to clear up the record first. I'm not a package person. There are bills, there are a 9 variety of other bills. At the end of the 10 day, our names are going to get called and 11 you're going to vote on each one of those 12 bills. It's not like, vote once and it's 13 over. And publicly on record saying I'm probably not going to do all of them, but the overwhelming majority of them do need to be done. I will say again as I said on Monday, I expect that all of us take our jobs in this body very seriously. And just because you put a set of scenarios in place or set a train on its particular track, it doesn't mean that you can't stop at the next station. We will be right back here next year having budget hearings and we'll hear about the fiscal condition of the City, maybe we'll hear about it in January or whenever the budget comes in. 58 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET And if things aren't working, then I expect that the responsible people in this body 4 and the responsible person in the Mayor's 5 office downstairs, Mayor Street, we will have 6 another conversation. And if things are not 7 going right, I expect that we will adjust 8 ourselves. We cannot act like we're out on a 9 boat somewhere on a particular course and even 10 though the wind has shifted and we're about to 11 capsize that we're just sit there and say 12 "Well, you know, we set out on this course and 13 that's the course that we're going to take 14 there's nothing we can do about it. And if 15 the place burns up, well, that's just the way 16 it goes. That's irresponsible. 17 Because I was a person who criticized former Mayor Rendell in 1995 about the first set of cuts in the wage tax. He was right; I was wrong. I've told him personally and I've said the publicly. But when the announcement was made that we would stop the increment tax cuts, the dollar a month, what people didn't care about, they wouldn't miss it, it wouldn't matter is what caused 59 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET thousands of people to take a short hop from Walnut Street to City Hall because somehow we realized that it did matter. The time to start is now. We can't continue to do what's doable. That's a part of the problem in this City. We're always willing to accept second best, we're always willing to take what we can done, we're always looking for what can I get, 9 votes, 12 votes, what's the best deal that I can get as opposed to what is the right thing to do. (Applause.)

Councilman Nutter

I think we're just beyond doable; we're at what's required.

Mr. Schweiker

Can I respond.

Councilman Nutter

Sure.

Council President Verna

I would like to remind our witnesses and my colleagues that we do have 67 witnesses to testify. If we can be as brief as possible, I would appreciate it.

Councilman Nutter

The witness has been well within his time. I took him way over 60 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Schweiker

Councilman, I'm some who held public office for sometime. And when you hit important days like this, you ought to have the opportunity to offer extended remarks. And without exception, respect that privilege and certainly your position. I have tremendous respect for command of the issues. Now, obviously I wasn't -- during that budget season with the march and everything, President and CEO, I had another job. Perhaps I could say to make the point, that was then, this is now. Let's contemplate the circumstances that led to that vitriol and that kind of response, literally a march, the one and only time in the 203 history of the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce was such a measure and action taken. The idea was not continue with reductions. That was wholly unacceptable. That was then and you had that kind of reaction. Now, albeit small, the reductions continue. The prospect of a half point drop exist by virtue of that gaming legislation, and that's what's going on now. 61 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET The dedication to that, whether it's on the part of the Mayor or this Council still exists. So staying with this overarching response of, "that was then, this is now," I think you do what you can this year in a fiscally prudent way. Economic circumstances have changed. But what hasn't changed on the part of the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce is our belief that the work of the Tax Reform Commission should have been convened. This did important work. They've offered some important suggestions. The question is, what can be activated in this fiscal year? And it seems that the economic distress that defines the budget-making this year is such a point that it makes it tougher. Now, your a smart guy. You've been through budget-making. If you are going to reduce revenue perhaps in the short run -- and we all can agree that if there's a question mark as to whether or not you can really juice greater revenues through a more affordable tax model in this next 12 month period, in this next 12 month period, if you're going to do 62 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET that, what slashing do you do on the expense side? So very respectfully -- and I don't think that's the job of the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce. What cutting do you do? I don't think that's only the Mayor's job.

Councilman Nutter

I understand.

Mr. Schweiker

That's the 10 members of the Council. It's a "something's 11 got to give" picture. And in that regard, 12 what is it? And then we would like to look at 13 that. If that's something you would 14 circulated -- I'm not saying if you -- if you 15 buy that kind of an assessment. It ain't 16 easy, friends. This is a tough, tough year. 17 I don't want to lose any credibility by saying that you can go and install all these reforms in 2005. Mathematically, it seems very tough to accomplish, even though it would be outstanding in terms of creating interest of doing business in the City.

Councilman Nutter

I understand.

Mr. Schweiker

I might add, Madam President, for the record, we do wish for all 63 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET the bills to be voted. The membership does prefer that this year.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you, Madam Chair. I apologize.

Mr. Schweiker

Madam President, we've got a big gathering.

Council President Verna

I know. That is why we called you immediately upon your arrival. Are there any questions of Governor Schweiker? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Mr. Schweiker

Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Members of Council.

Council President Verna

Our next witness.

Mr. Mcpherson

Rob Zuritsky.

Council President Verna

Good morning. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. 64 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Zuritsky

I'm Robert Zuritsky with Parkway Corporation,

Mr. Blake

I'm Alan Blake with Central Parking.

Ms. Cutler

Cory Cutler from Rittenhouse Row.

Mr. Zuritsky

Good morning, My name is Robert Zuritsky, and I am here representing the Philadelphia Parking Association. We are a group of nine operators managing 90 percent of the Philadelphia's parking facilities. The parking industry employs 2500 people, many of them you have seen in recent days and most of them City residents, myself included. There seems to be a perception that increasing the parking tax 33 percent and real estate taxes over a hundred percent with the land value tax for parking facilities is not something that we should be concerned with. This is because we can always just pass on the additional cost to the parking public and they will stand for anything. I think we all learned from experience that you can tax people too much 65 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET and chase them away from your City and from your business, which is precisely why we are here to lower the cost of doing business in Philadelphia. The parking industry is already the highest taxed industry in the City. Roughly 30 percent of every dollar that we charge our customers today goes to the City in one form of tax or another. The parking operators are not alone in their concern. Monday, Controller Jonathan Saidel voiced his concern. Today, you heard from the Governor Schweiker from the Chamber of Commerce. The cultural arts are concerned. Rittenhouse Row is here. And we believe Center City proprietors will be also joining us later to voice their concern. None of our customers visit the City to park their cars. They come to work, live, see their doctor, see a show or exhibit, stay at a hotel or eat at one of our wonderful restaurants. The parking tax is already an added cost that affects people's decisions whether they choose to invest their time and 66 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET money the City. But that is not the only issue facing the parking industry. The land value tax threatens to increase parking lot real estate taxes over 100 percent in the coming years. The theory from this Henry George who lived over 150 years ago was to force landowners to develop their land or be punished. This might have worked when your City was all farmland, but in a developed city it doesn't seem like a great idea. The cities that have embraced this tax are Allentown and Harrisburg, neither of which has been the center of increased land usage or increased capital spending. I encourage you to compare the activity on Center City streets and sidewalks on a Wednesday night or a Sunday afternoon with either of those two cities and then decide if you want to take the risk of transferring the tax burden of our tallest buildings onto the backs of the tenants of our low-rise buildings that maintain the walkable character of our fine City. 67 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET The land value tax will also punished to 30 percent of our City's 4 residents simply because they will have the 5 misfortune of living in an up and coming 6 neighborhood and actually eliminate 7 the 10-year tax abatement for new row house 8 development. 9 As a developer, I can tell you that 10 no development has ever taken place as a 11 result of a threat to increase your real 12 estate taxes a hundred plus percent. By 13 contrast, most development in the City has 14 taken place because of the alignment of 15 business conditions and City incentives. For 16 instance, the current building activity is due 17 to Philadelphia's 10-year tax abatement and 18 the success of the residential market. The 19 project at Jefferson square is a great example 20 of this. There was an article in the Sunday 21 Inquirer. There were people camping out to 22 get these new homes. I don't think that the 23 demand would be as strong if there wasn't a 24 10-year tax abatement for these new residence. 25 This morning I received a letter 68 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET from the head of the Pittsburgh Parking Authority, Steve Irwin (ph).

Mr. Zuritsky

Hopefully, this will be published in the paper coming up, and I just want read one paragraph of it. "As chairman of the Public Parking Authority of Pittsburgh, I have firsthand knowledge of how serious the impact of the increase is and will be. First, the tax is bad for business. It sends a terrible message to suburbanites who choose to or need to work in downtown, to organizations considering holding conventions here or businesses thinking of relocating. It deters shoppers from coming into town and tourists from staying here. The added cost and inconvenience caused by the tax just makes their options more enticing. Like Philadelphia, we need to bring people into this City, not chase them away. Driving up the cost of doing business in downtown Pittsburgh does little to support efforts to keep stores and companies here and attract thriving and growing businesses in the future. " In conclusion, the parking operators support tax reform because it will make the City more competitive but believe the land value tax should stay in Allentown. I respectfully ask the City Council to look for further cuts in spending rather than raise the parking tax or land tax and risk damaging the few remaining strengths of our local authority. Thank you for the opportunity to present our views. )

Council President Verna

Thank you. Good morning. Please identify yourself.

Mr. Blake

Once again, I'm Alan Blake with Central Parking. I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to speak today. As the general manager for Central Parking System for Philadelphia, I would like to voice my concern over the proposed increased parking tax. 70 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Over the past three weeks, a wide cross-section of Central Parking field employees and their parking patrons have written to Councilmembers and the Mayor on this same issue. They are adamantly opposed to a 33 percent increase on the parking tax. My employees understand that people pay for parking. And if drivers perceive prices have escalated beyond what the market will bear, then they will choose an alternative plan. Fewer drivers translate into fewer employees required to provide parking services. Between our Center City, airport, and stadium operations, 1,021 men and women are currently employed by my company. A large percentage are full-time workers with health and retirement benefits who also happen to be residents of Philadelphia. Central Parking has a vested interest in the continued success of this City. We operate 58 parking facilities which, excluding the airport, generated nearly $10 million annually to the City in parking taxes collected. We are presently the highest tax 71 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET industry, and any additional increase that we would have to pass on to our parking patrons will have a negative ripple effect. It is my opinion that the City would not raise projected $11 million it hopes to gain from this increase. Less people will drive. Between escalating gas prices with no 9 end in sight and parking taxes higher than any other northeast city, why would you continue to drive? For patrons outside of Philadelphia, a switch to public transportation is either not an option available to them or one that they are not comfortable in choosing. An increased parking tax only serves the throw up one more road block for not visiting Philadelphia. With less expensive alternatives available, the end result will be less visitors to a City. In closing, a 20 percent parking tax impacts every type of business in the City. Restaurants, hotels, commercial buildings, tourist attractions and retail stores all depend heavily on drivers from the surrounding region. City residents themselves are also 72 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET impacted, as this increase will be passed on to their monthly charges. The parking industry provides an important service to a diverse population who are the key to sustaining Philadelphia's economic recovery. It is my hope that Councilmembers can find alternative means to close the City's short-term deficit without further shifting an unfair tax burden on to parking patrons. Thank you. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Thank you. Please identify yourself for the record.

Ms. Cutler

My name is Cory Cutler, I'm the Executive Director of Rittenhouse Row. I represent a non-profit consortium of 200 businesses, shops, restaurants, hotels, galleries, salons and services businesses located between Market and Spruce Streets from the Avenue of the Arts to 21st Street. Our goal is to attract more visitors to our area by promoting the area of the destination. On behalf of these 200 members and 73 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET our Board of Directors, I'm here today to report the proposed tax increase would be very detrimental to the economic vitality of our destination and will have a tremendously December negative impact. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Can you give you an estimate as to how many employees the parking lots and garages,

Mr. Zuritsky

We have in the parking industry --

Council President Verna

I heard you said that you have a thousand?

Mr. Zuritsky

I have a thousand just with my company, but within the Parking Association which represented 90 percent of the parking lots here in Philadelphia, that number is 2500.

Council President Verna

So the less usage, you would have less employees, would you not?

Mr. Zuritsky

That's correct. There's less services to provide. Most of my 74 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET employees are doing valet parking. The less cars to park, I wouldn't be able to keep as many employees.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be brief. This is certainly an intriguing situation. I understand everything that you testified to and share a number of the concerns that you have raised, and I'll get back to that in a second. But I do feel somewhat compelled to at least to put on the record, and we've had a little bit of this conversation at least in the hallway not too long ago, you certainly be aware that -- and this is more related to the parking tax proposal. I'm assuming you've also talked about the land value tax. I was away from my chair during your testimony. I mean, there are certainly, I think, more than a general perception that parking rates in Philadelphia are pretty high 75 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET and that at times, and especially under a variety of circumstances, we even get complaints that there may possibly be even some gouging going on related to specific events, all of which does not necessarily maybe generate significant amount of sympathy toward the parking industry in general. On the other hand, it would seem to me that raising the parking tax is probably not one of the ways to address that particular issue. But I would like to ask you as leaders in the industry if at a subsequent point in time we might have some opportunity either in my general capacity as a Member of this City Council or as Chair of the Transportation and Public Utilities Committee, the need for a serious parking plan and discussing about parking mainly in Center City but there are certainly other areas where parking is an, both from a transportation standpoint as well as a cost factor standpoint, as well as when the witness talks about the impact on Center City business and whether people come downtown or not because they either can't find parking 76 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET or they feel like there's almost a bit of a ransom to get their car back after spending sometime in City, I think, are all very complex issues. And I'd like to hear from you with regard to any amount of commitment you'll be willing to make to have further discussions about those issues which I think we can work on which are to the positive benefit of the citizens of this City.

Mr. Zuritsky

We would welcome the opportunity to sit with you. We think there are transportation traffic issues that were brought up the other say. We have been talking about traffic issues and concerns about those issues for many, many years and brought it to many different people through the years. As far as rates in the City, as we said before, we are already the highest taxed industry in the City. We're already paying 30 cents of every dollar before all your expenses and rents and labor costs and all those things, so we feel -- we would love to have a discussion about all parking issues with you 77 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET and we welcome that.

Councilman Nutter

All right. We'll follow up on that. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you, Madam President. It's appropriate that Councilman Rizzo come over and have a chat with me because I think we had a meeting or two with the parking industry, and you were very gracious to meet with us to talk about short-term parking issues and also some of the other issues related parking. And as I remember, correct me if I'm wrong, it was understood when we left the meeting that Center City District and the Parking Authority were going to come up with some numbers that we could crunch to figure out what was going on and what needed to be done, including even perhaps a reduction in the parking tax in an effort to subsidize the reduction in short-term parking rates. Our calls to the 78 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Center City District, our calls to the Parking Authority, nobody is interested in doing it. I don't know whether or not someone got to somebody and told them to drag their feet or what happened, but all I know is that we've been waiting for numbers from those entities which apparently are not coming because they were instructed or asked not to do it, and now we're back to square one where we were. And that was the result of legislation that we introduced that the industry understandably was upset with, and I understand that and they should have been upset because it was an attempt to get everybody to the table. Once the bill or the specter of that bill was removed and a cooperative effort was established, the cooperation went away. I know you would love to have a conversation with Councilman Nutter and I'd like you to have a conversation with us, but we've had this conversation and the entities that were supposed to help us get the data necessary decided they weren't going to do it. So if the Center City District which is an 79 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET important entity and a very good entity for gathering that information and the Parking Authority isn't willing to do it, I don't know how we get the numbers and data we need to even have a discussion about this. Do you have insight into how this process got sidetracked, so to speak?

Mr. Zuritsky

I know THAT we looked at things and we had further discussions. It's a complicated issue, rates. I'm not sure we have any solutions. As I recall we did meet because there was some concerns about some of the shows that had happened and some things that happened, and I believe that there was some change in some operators' policies and some of those problems have gone away. You know, rates in the City go up and go down as market conditions allow them. One of the best locations in the City, one of my competitors, I just noticed this month their rates just came down at their facility. It's 15 Street, one of the best streets in the City. Rates, it's a very pure market supply and demand business. 80 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Kenney

But the problem is our market supply and demand analysis is juxtapose with the zero cost of parking at the King of Prussia Mall. And while I understand it's what the market will bear and we shouldn't as a government be involved in regulating rates from a philosophical standpoint, if it cost you $15 to park for two hours to go shopping at Lord and Taylor, how are we serving Lord and Tailor or the employees of Lord and Taylor or the employees of the restaurant that shopper may go to or not go to ever again? The same issue comes up with the Flower Show or Car Show. If I drive in here from Reading to go a Car Show and park my car and I realize that once I've made the trip it's going to cost me $30 to get my car parked or $25, I'm going to pay that money. I'm going to go in and enjoy the Car Show. And when it's over, I'm going to get back in my car and I'm going to thumb my nose at the City and leave and never come back again. And that's the kind of comments you get. 81 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET So regardless of what the market bears, there's other markets that are affected by it like restaurants, like shows, like hotels, like other things. And we really tried to have this conversation. And I would like to have it again, but I do need some assurance somebody provide the data which certainly Councilman Rizzo and I are not equipped enough to go around and figure out data necessary to determine what we hope was a reduction in the parking tax. If we could have figured out a way to reduce the parking tax and allow you to subsidize the short-term shopper, that would have been a great solution. But we never got off first base because --

Mr. Zuritsky

We looked at it for a long time. We will get together with you again and we'll talk about it some more.

Councilman Kenney

I don't want to monopolize because I know Councilman Rizzo wants to say something about that. I don't want to go back at this in an adversarial situation. I don't want to have to introduce 82 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET a bill that will talk about regulating rates from a government perspective and have everybody upset, we have a big meeting and then we realize we're not on a different page, we're on the same page. You want to do your business and employ your people, the people you employ you pay decent wages, a lot of immigrant employment in the parking industry in Philadelphia. We don't want to hurt anybody, but I also want to drag some of those cars out of Cherry Hill and Deptford and King of Prussia and get them down here to Walnut Street and have them shop here.

Council President Verna

Thank you, Councilman. I would like to remind my colleagues and witnesses again, we do have 67 witnesses to testify today. So, again, I'm going to ask that you try to be as concise as possible.

Councilman Kenney

Can I make a comment on that?

Council President Verna

This is a very important issue.

Councilman Kenney

That's not the 83 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET issue. I think the it's important to the people who are witnesses here who have been waiting and have to come back day after day should recognize that we should have had this budget in mid-January. We would have had a regular list of hearings dates. I mean, for us to get the budget in mid-March and have it done basically by the end of May and to have all these people jammed in with just a short set of hearings, we didn't do that. We didn't do that. The second floor did that. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

With that being said, we still have 67 witnesses today. So I would again ask that we try to be as concise as possible. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

I want to add to Councilman Kenney's comments on the meeting that we had at the Chamber offices. And I think everyone knows that it was a result of potential legislation that could regulate the parking industry. I was very motivated at 84 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET that meeting, and as Councilman Kenney described, it just went away when the threat of that legislation was pulled back. We discussed again short-term rates to get people in and out. We discussed a myriad of issues at that meeting. And it just went away. So again, we appreciated the attention when that legislation was pending, but I think that now with the severe circumstances that we're experiencing, that we truly, truly need to get back to that table with all of those parking lot operators to see what we can do to encourage people to come to the City and not have to spend 15, bucks to 16 grab a quick lunch and maybe shop for an hour. 17 So I would appreciate you addressing that. 18 I know we fixed some things at that 19 meeting; the venues at the stadium, et cetera, 20 the parking rates, which you've been very cooperative with. At least I know your company has, but I'd like to get back to the table. Thanks.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman 85 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET DiCicco.

Councilman Dicicco

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning. I apologize that I was not here at the beginning of your statement, so if the question I'm about to ask has already been answered, I'll just wait and look at the notes of testimony. I was at a community meeting in South Philadelphia from 9:00 this morning. The proposed 5 percent increase for the parking tax, if that becomes a reality, what does that mean to the average customer in terms of an increase? Because I have to assume that that's going to get passed onto the customer, or at least a portion of it.

Mr. Blake

On a regular, let's say, $15 daily ticket, that's 75 cents, and on a monthly customer, anywhere from maybe $15 a month.

Councilman Dicicco

So if that were to become a reality and the land tax were to become a reality, what would that number come to? I mean, that get's passed onto somebody. 86 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Has any calculations been looked at as to what the cost of parking today versus what the cost of parking tomorrow would be with the percent 5 and the land tax value as an industry?

Mr. Zuritsky

The land tax is something that I've been looking at for two years as this discussion started, and I honestly don't fully understand it yet.

Councilman Dicicco

Neither do I.

Mr. Zuritsky

I remember hearing Mr. Glancey mentioning it too, it's a radical surgery with this tax. I think the average parker for the parking tax would pay $100 to $200 more a year. The land value could be another $200 to $300 a year. It's hard to really justify. What happens is, we have to raise our rates to pay the tax. What that means is we're going to lose business for raising the tax, for raising that rate. It means we have to raise the rate a little bit more just to make up for the loss because we have our mortgages and our rent payments and so forth. So the real impact is fairly dramatic. 87 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Dicicco

I don't think I have any other questions. I just want to echo the comments of Councilman Kenney. I know there are some people who were here on Monday from my district in the Wash West community, Washington Square West community, who were complaining to my staff that they never got a chance to testify, although I think it was in the newspaper on Monday that the public would testify later that day. There was some complaint that we were grandstanding up here. This is not grandstanding. This is important business. That's what we're elected to do, to have these hearings, get as much information as we can so that we can make hopefully the right decision when it comes to these matters and other matters. So I just wanted to echo the comments of Councilman Kenney. This is crunch time for us. We didn't create this situation. This all came to us very, very late. And unfortunately, the public for whatever reason doesn't understand that because they're not involved in the 88 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET day-to-day politics that we are. We do apologize that they have to keep coming back. But this is by no means grandstanding. We're all running from one meeting to the another and it's put a strain on of all us. Thank you for being here.

Council President Verna

Thank you, Councilman. Thank you, gentlemen. We appreciate your coming into testify. (Applause.)

Mr. Mcpherson

The next panel is a group of recreation people. Mike McCrea, Jim Hellman, Irene Russell, Tiffany Green, Karim Lewis, Aileen Bunch and Frank Barnett. Will you come to the table, please?

Council President Verna

Are you going to have one or two spokespersons, or are you all going to --

Mr. Mccrea

We're all on the list so we kind of decided to go together.

Council President Verna

Well, as I said, we're on a time limit. Who's going to testify first? 89 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Please identify yourself.

Ms. Russell

Good morning. My name is Irene Russell. Good morning, Madam President, Members of Council, other guests and speakers. My name is Irene Russell, and I thank you for allowing my input on this very important matter today. I sit here today as one who is actually on the front lines of public recreation, interacting with the children and community. I sit here today because I can speak firsthand of the difference that I have seen recreation programs have in the lives of children and families within a community. At Stinger Square Park, where once there was no activity and no maintenance, there is now a vital place for the entire community to come together and enjoy varied programs and events. The involvement of people who care about this park has made it a model, not just for Philadelphia, but for other cities as well. They now host a complete season of events and have an Internet presence as well. 90 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET At Donald P. Finnegan Playground, where some of the same conditions existed, there is now constant activity and programs and a community who is pulling together around this facility. There is a drill team, sports teams, regular trips, an after-school program and literacy programs, not to mention summer day camps at both sites. There are people coming and going all the time at Finnegan, and parents coming to thank us for giving their children a place that they want to go. Yes, children want to be at Finnegan Playground every day because there's always something there for them to do and be a part of. Children are signing up for Youth Works and parents are already asking for day camp registrations at both sites. I have seen young boys who used to hang on the corners pick up a drum and never miss a practice for the drill team. Others have joined the SMBL league and played heartily for the basketball championship. I have seen children pick up books and read them voraciously. And I have seen children tell me how they feel safe there. 91 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Across this City there are places just like Finnegan and Stinger Square that don't need to have their doors closed, but rather need someone to go in and open those doors with programs and exciting things for kids to do. Everybody benefits from these programs, not just the children who attend them. The Mayor has promised that there will be no child left behind in Philadelphia. I ask that the Members of City Council, along with the children of Philadelphia, hold him to that promise by keeping parks and public recreation alive in Philadelphia for generations to come. Thank you. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Thank you. Ms. Russell, I believe you cover Stinger Square and Finnegan. MS RUSSELL: Yes. Donald Finnegan.

Council President Verna

Am I correct in my understanding that you do have a number of volunteers at Finnegan.

Ms. Russell

Yes. 92 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Council President Verna

And that the Finnegan family has actually contributed 400 or 500 books.

Ms. Russell

Yes. They donated a library.

Council President Verna

How many children would you say go to that center a day.

Ms. Russell

Well, the drill team has 40 children enrolled. The SMBL has, like, 36 children enrolled. We have a summer baseball league starting up, and we already have a strong enrollment for that. Our after-school program has enrolled at least 30 children. There are people already signing up. We already have at least about 15 going on registrations for camp, which doesn't 19 even start until July. We have game nights on 20 Tuesday with 25 kids coming to that. We have karaoke night on Friday, and we have 25 kids coming for that, not to mention spectators who come in. The don't want to sing, but they come in and watch. So we have a great number of children and adults now coming to the park. 93 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET We have a spark of volunteerism that's taken place that's just phenomenal. A fellow opened up a water-ice stand across the street because he saw the numbers and so he created a business around those numbers. So we're even sparking new business in the community through the activity at Donald Finnegan Playground.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. Our next witness.

Ms. Bunch

Good morning, Council President Verna, Councilmembers, guests and other speakers. I'm honored to be here this morning to strongly protest cuts to the recreation budget.

Council President Verna

I'm sorry. Please identify yourself.

Ms. Bunch

I'm sorry. My name is Aileen Bunch. I'm here today to strongly protest the cuts to the recreation budget, recreation center closures City-wide, and specifically Sacks Playground located at 4th and Washington. I'm also the Co-Chair of the 94 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Friends of Gold Star Park, which until about two years ago was a pretty blighted park on the 600 block of Wharton Street. My family purchased our home, our very first home, south of Washington because we couldn't afford anywhere else. We moved right across from a broken down playground. Well, to make a long story short, the neighbors got involved, got the park cleaned up, and now it's just one of the most wonderful parks in all of Philadelphia. We have a lot of volunteers that come out and help out. And to think that maintenance services will be cut to our park is just devastating. We can't do without just basic maintenance services. But regarding Sacks, it's very infuriating to think that this is on the chopping block. For all intents and purposes, Sacks has been closed for years because the Department of Recreation hasn't properly maintained it. They have not properly funded it. There's no full-time staff there. All we have is a 6-month seasonal maintenance 95 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET attendance. This is a facility that is an entire City block with ball fields, with two basketball courts, with a building, a swimming pool and a broken down tot lot that is just a disgrace. We really would like to see changes and improvements and we would like to be a part of a process to get changes and improvements at Sacks Playground, and not to be threatened with closure, especially when four recreation centers north of Washington Avenue and east of Broad Street will be allowed to remain opened, fully funded with adequate programming, et cetera, et cetera. And those facilities in particular are Hawthorne, Palumbo, Seger and Starr Gardens. It's a disgrace when all of these facilities will be allowed to remain open and operable and funded and only be within two to four blocks of each other, and yet Sacks and Chew will be closed because they're south of Washington in minority, low income neighborhoods that can't advocate for them as strongly as north of Washington can. Eighty percent of the facilities on 96 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET the chopping block are in low income, minority neighborhoods. All I see around my neighborhood is growth, growth, growth. Zip Code 19147 is just experiencing so much growth, and we need to improve our facilities for our children, not close them down. (Applause.)

Ms. Bunch

Thank you. And I will shout from the roof tops. All the Councilmembers and the Mayor's Office got my letters of protest, so it's all in there. You know, there has been a lot of good around Sacks for a lot of years. In particular, the Nesmitt (ph) family, who's run programs out of their own pockets, who have garnered volunteers to clean up the facilities, who worked with Bruce Springstein, you know, to get his video filmed there. They've done a lot of good, but now we all jump in and help them and to bring our facility up. It's just sickening to me -- and this is the last thing I'll say, the last thing I'll shout -- but it's just absolutely 97 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET disgusting when you have $200,000 plus new construction going up. And actually most of the new construction going up around us is starting at $700,000. And yet you want to close down the rec center right across from the housing projects, right across from George Washington Elementary School. Our kids need this facility. That's all I'm going to say. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. Good morning. Please identify yourself. Councilman DiCicco.

Councilman Dicicco

I just want to make a comment or two. You and I and three or four other folks from your community had a meeting about a month or so ago, and I was very candid about what the proposal was as it pertains to Sacks, talked about some possible alternatives. Although I wasn't recommending them, some discussion pointed to them. I'm still waiting to have further conversations with you and 98 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET your association. But you did mention that Sacks was being closed and the other four facilities just north of Washington Avenue were not. Just for the record, Seger is also on that list of proposals to be closed as well.

Ms. Bunch

I heard it was removed from the list.

Councilman Dicicco

Well, I haven't seen the list. There is a new list, I am told.

Ms. Bunch

It's not on there anymore.

Councilman Dicicco

I don't know if it is or isn't because I've not seen it. I never even saw the first list. What I said at the time --

Council President Verna

Maybe Ms. Bunch could tell us what's actually on the list at the present time.

Councilman Dicicco

I was told as of this past Friday that the new list now includes Rizzo Ice Skating Rink to be closed as well. I don't pay attention to all those 99 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET rumors and lists that are going on. This something that this Council will have to deal with collectively when it comes to the Department of Recreation. I think you know where I stand. You're right. Sacks has for a number of years been lacking in capital improvements, and there are some reasons for that, which we discussed, and it certainly will be on my agenda to keep Sacks open. There are some facilities that I've agreed with the Administration that I will seriously look at either closing or selling or what have you. But Sacks is not one of them. And now that you are there and your organization I'm much more comfortable in my fight to keep that place open because we really didn't have that much of a well-organized effort there over the years. I'm not pointing fingers. It's a different day. The Jefferson Square Housing Development has been completely sold out as of last week. Another 90 some-odd new families are moving into the Jefferson Square area, 100 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET which is just adjacent to the Sacks facility, and that gives me more reason to fight to want to keep Sacks open. I just want to get that on the record.

Ms. Bunch

I want to make it clear that we really appreciate Councilman DiCicco's efforts in our community. You really are a friend of parks and rec centers in the 1st District. I often hear other names mentioned in the parks revitalization program. Jannie Blackwell, Councilman Nutter, et cetera, et cetera. And I could be all day praising you all for all the wonderful work you've done for our communities. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Our next witness, please identify yourself for the record.

Ms. Fox

Hi. Good morning. My name is Betty Finnegan Fox.

Council President Verna

Hello. MS FOX: President Verna and Members of the City Council, as I said, my name is Betty Finnegan-Fox. I am a resident and homeowner in the Grays Ferry community and 101 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET daughter of the late Donald Finnegan, for whom the playground at 30th and Oakford is named after. By the way, I did supply packages of my talking points, and of course because we believe in our playground, it's in the folder back on that table. I also have a Power Point presentation that I hope everybody can look at and see the good that has been done there. Today I speak on behalf of the community and the Finnegan family to request that Donald Finnegan Playground does not close, but is given the budget to continue the services that are so vital to our community, such as providing the staffing and the resources to keep the building open and available to the Grays Ferry children, teens and adults. Over the last year, under the leadership of Irene Russell and her two part-time staff members, I witnessed the vitality and community involvement that has been lacking at the playground for many years. She not only sees the future of the Finnegan 102 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Playground as a safe and welcoming environment for the children of the community, but the programs and activities that she has pursued and offered engage all races, ages and creeds from our community. This past year has been challenging with the news that the Donald Finnegan Playground may close, but good in many ways as we watch the community involvement. This past year produced some remarkable highlights for our community. The first annual Martin Luther King Day of Service I had, it was nearly 200 people from the community of the Grays Ferry area coming together to celebrate the spirit of Dr. King, both old and young, of all backgrounds work together to clean the playground. Speakers shared their thoughts on volunteering and lunches were served to all who attended that day. We did have many other events that day, but that's the high point. The second annual One Book One Philadelphia project -- and as you know, this is a project of the Office of the Mayor, John 103 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Street, and the Free Library of Philadelphia. We held that, and there were door prizes for the children consisting of materials that will help to enhance their reading and writing skills. We had also given out six copies of the book, The Color of Water by James McBride. That was this year's One Book selection. As I mentioned, a book corner was dedicated in Donald's memory at the playground with, gosh, more than 150 new books, and that has gone up, and nearly 300 used books, and that has gone up recently for children and teens, which include fiction, non-fiction, reference books. And we have just added GED materials, as well as for the collection six copies of The Color of Water. The first read-a-thon, where savings bonds were offered as an incentive for the most books read and the best book report. One young boy, God love him, he read 40 books and did a book report on each that we had to read, which we did, because he gave it that extra effort. And needless to say, he was the top winner. Even though only several children received the 104 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET savings bonds, all of the children were winners just for entering the read-a-thon to show them that each child received a gift certificate and a special gift at our awards ceremony. The Finnegan family also received $1,000 in contributions from individuals to provide new sports equipment. And as Irene said, sign-up has already begun for the summer league. And this baseball league will take place, and we expect the children to enjoy the luxury of competing on, if not the best, one of the best fields in the City.

Council President Verna

The second to none Precision Steppers Drill Team had their first try-outs in September 2003, and on January 3, 2004 they competed at Delaware State University, placing fifth and sixth out of 40 other teams. Fund-raising has taken place to ensure they have the materials they need to compete. The programs and activities that take place at the playground revitalized the playground, bringing components of literacy, music, sports and just plain old fun to our community. I have attached a list of 105 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET activities and programs that do take place now, as well as what we're looking forward to in the future. In addition to the programs and activities already in place at the playground, other activities are being planned to enhance the scope of the programs for children and adults. The staff is now in the process of creating a Web site. We are working on a GED program for those adults and young adults who wish to get their high school degree. When I return home from work in the evenings the number of children and adults in the playground astound me. Whether they're on the basketball court, in the play area, on the ball field, inside the building reading, practicing for the next drill team meet or participating in one of the activities, the need is clear that Donald Finnegan Playground needs to stay open for the community. Whenever I stop at the playground I am reminded when my father went to the trouble of bringing the playground back to life, not for personal glory, but for the community, 106 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET especially our children. Finally, the Finnegan family has committed themselves to helping in the financing of the programs and activities with a variety of fund-raising projects taking place. We had to stop our fund-raising projects when we heard we were closing because it is not ethical to continue soliciting. We will go to area businesses, which we have done. We have a flea market planned. We have all exciting programs upcoming. " The Donald Finnegan Playground has the staff in place giving more than a little extra effort. The children and adults in the community are getting that. Irene Russell has also made the Finnegan family feel welcome yet again to participate in the activities at the playground while giving back to the community. Just as the staff of the playground is doing, the Finnegan family, working as a team with the staff, plan on giving the Donald Finnegan 107 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Playground more than a little extra effort in whatever way we can. Closing the playground will not help our community. The spark has been lit, and going backward will only deny the community a thriving and active recreation center offering services in a safe and welcoming environment. While most people have negative thoughts about inner-city communities, we have optimism because this is our home and the children are our future. Thank you. )

Council President Verna

Thank you. Mrs. Fox, I can see that you are really fulfilling your father's dream, and I congratulate you for that. It's wonderful. The next witness. Your name, sir?

Mr. Barnett

My name is Frank Barnett, 300 block of Titan Street, 1st Councilmanic District. I want to thank you for allowing me to speak today. A lot of my points have been taken today fortunately by Councilman DiCicco and 108 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Aileen Bunch. I'm here to voice my opposition to the closing of any recreation center in Philadelphia, but in particular Sacks Playground at 4th and Washington. There was a list of recreation centers that was printed in the paper. I think one of the problems is that, as Councilman DiCicco alluded to, there seems to be a lot of rumors going around. There's not an official list, so that people in these neighborhoods who are affected by the closures of these rec centers are actually unaware that their neighborhoods may be targeted for closure. In terms of Sacks, the criteria for the closing of some of the rec centers has been reported; physical condition, programming, staffing, proximity to other rec centers. As far as Sacks is concerned, when you're at the bottom of funding, you're of course going to be at the bottom of the list for physical condition. And I would challenge Commissioner Richard to come up with the name of the staff person at Sacks Playground because we haven't 109 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET had one for years. I'm a recent newly moved-in resident to the neighborhood surrounding Sacks Playground, referred to as Jefferson Square area. It's been mentioned before, of course, in the tax hearings previously. We've got people waiting out in line for homes in the area, and yet two blocks away, the Department of Recreation plans to in effect pull the rug out from underneath these new people, and essentially do the same for the people who have been displaced, gone through losing their homes and having homes torn down next to them, people who have been displaced from the housing projects who have been moved into nicer homes, but now in effect are going to have the recreation rug pulled out from underneath them. Again, I'd like to voice my opposition to any of the closings, and I came today to speak about Sacks Playground, but I want all the Councilpersons today to think about the rec centers in their districts and to think about the people who use them. Use is also one of the criteria supposedly used for 110 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET closing some of the rec centers. I went down to Sacks Playground, and within half an hour I collected 50 signatures on a petition. And this was in half an hour. These are from parents, not even from the children they were with. So I think if the Councilpersons think about the people and the children who are actually using the rec centers in spite of the conditions, I think they would need to think again about proper funding and not closing or selling any of these rec centers.

Council President Verna

Thank you, Mr. Barnett. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Who is our next witness? Mr. Hellman, please identify yourself for the record. Do you have written testimony, sir.

Mr. Hellman

Yes. Good morning, Members of City Council.

Council President Verna

Good morning. Please proceed. 111 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Hellman

My name is Jim Hellman. I'm a resident of Grays Ferry, and I'm very active in my community, particularly with public recreation. Before I begin my actual testimony, I want to take a moment to greet our 2nd District Member of City Council. Hello, President Verna.

Council President Verna

Good morning. President, the Committee of Concerned Citizens Forgotten Bottom Neighborhood Association, friends of Stinger Square, Grays Ferry Community Council, Martin Luther King's Village Neighborhood Association, South Philadelphia Rainbow Committee, Point Breeze Network Plus, Point Breeze Civic Association, Point Breeze Community Development Coalition, South Philadelphia Homes Neighborhood Advisory Council, Philadelphia Alliance for Community Improvement and the advisory councils at Vare Recreation Center, Lanier Playground, Finnegan Playground, Stinger Square Park, Wharton 112 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Square Park, Chew Playground and Smith Playground have all authorized me to tell you two things. One, public recreation in Grays Ferry and Point Breeze has greatly benefited from your support over the years, and all of us do appreciate your support. And two, in Point Breeze and Grays Ferry, the people support the fine job you're doing as President of City Council under very difficult and unusual circumstances. I'm an advocate for public recreation, and I don't apologize for that to anyone. I am convinced that public recreation is vital to the health of our communities and to the well-being of our children and youth. I volunteer my time and energies to advance public recreation in my community and in my City. I am a proud member of the Philadelphia Recreation Advisory Council, or PRAC, where I serve as editor of the PRAC newsletter, member of the PRAC budget committee and chairman of the PRAC legal community. It is in the latter capacity that I testify today. 113 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET We understand that the Department of Recreation has been the favorite whipping boy of mayors gone by. We have never agreed with it, but we do understand it. We know the Department has endured budget cuts in past administrations. We know there have been staffing cuts and there have even been facility closings. But the Department of Recreation and the public it serves has never experienced the wholesale dismantling we are getting from Mayor John F. Street. At the risk of sounding idealistic, the City of Philadelphia belongs to its citizens. We love our City. We choose to live here, to work here, to raise our families here and to play here. We want our City to endure and prosper. But our City has a problem. The problem is that under the subterfuge of cutting the deficit, a deficit that he himself created, Mayor Street wants to close 40 public recreation facilities, 20 swimming pools, 40 summer camps and all five ice rinks. 5 million in 114 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET budget cuts in the last four years. Our City has a problem. With all the closings, the City will save $4 million. $4 million out of a $227 million deficit. That is just 2 percent of the deficit. And who will pay the price for that 2 percent? Mayor Street won't pay it. He can't run for re-election. His salary won't be cut. The budget for his office won't be slashed. In fact, the budget for the Mayor's Office will be increased by 12 percent. Of course, the citizens will pay the 13 2 percent price tag. It is our playgrounds, 14 our swimming pools and our summer camps that 15 will be gone. It is our children and our youth 16 who will have to walk many more blocks on hot 17 summer days to find an open pool in a 18 unfamiliar neighborhood where they might be able to swim. While our children are struggling to do that, Mayor Street will be free to hold his press conferences and attend his galas immune to the difficulties he has imposed on our communities. Our City has a problem. Recreation Commissioner Victor N. Richards sat before the 115 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET City Council and proudly announced there would be no service cuts, just before he announced the closing of 40 summer camps. Aren't summer camps and ice rinks services? What language are officials speaking anyway? Our City has a problem.

Council President Verna

Some of our officials point out that Philadelphia has far more public recreation facilities and swimming pools than the City of Houston, even though Houston has a greater population. The officials say that is a bad thing and it justifies closing our facilities and our pools. They call it right-sizing. But I say it's a great thing. We can all be proud that Philadelphia provides better for our children and youth than the City of Houston does. )

Mr. Hellman

While we must be concerned with fiscal responsibility, government services by definition must be based on need and not just on population. The real definition of right-sizing is what works and what our citizens need, and public recreation does work in our City. 116 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET As a personal aside, if our City officials are so fascinated with the City of Houston, that they hold it up as a role model for Philadelphia, maybe they should consider moving to Houston. I for one will be happy to pay for the plane fare. One way, of course. Our City has a problem. At a recent press conference, Mayor Street called for dignity during budget hearings. But where is the dignity for our communities? Nobody from the Department of Recreation or the Mayor's Office bothered to talk with our communities on what should be done. We have not had a voice. There have not been any feasibility studies, nor any consultation or discussion with the very people who will be most affected. Where is our dignity, Mr. Mayor? And why don't you hold a press conference about that? Our City has a problem. While cutting public recreation, Mayor Street increases funding for Safe and Sound and the so-called Children's Investment Strategy. Let's take a moment to look at one example of the disparity. 117 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Donald P. Finnegan Playground at 30th and Wharton Street is targeted for closing. Using the Department of Recreation's own figure, it costs the City just $10,600 per year to operate Finnegan Playground. $10,600. What does the City get for that investment? The City gets an after-school program with 27 enrollments and to children attending 10 each day, 40 children on three teams for the 11 76ers neighborhood basketball league, a first 12 ever read-a-thon with an award ceremony for 20 13 children, a drill team with 50 children, a game 14 night with open play time for some 40 children, 15 a karaoke night with open night for another 40 16 children, a first ever Martin Luther King day 17 of service for over 100 adults and children, an 18 upcoming Phillies rookie baseball league for 19 children, a summer camp for 30 children and 20 much more, all sponsored by the Department of Recreation. With almost 400 participants benefiting from the activities at Finnegan, the average cost to the City is just $28.88 per person, per year. $28.88. Compare that to 118 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET just one private after-school program funded through Safe and Sound. The Gold Medal Karate School Program serves 38 children and receives $78,546 in funding. That's a whopping $2,067 per person, per year. Yet Mayor Street would have us believe that we can afford the $2,067 per person private program, but we can't afford the $28.88 per person public recreation facility. Now, that is isn't simply being counter boneheadedness. That is scandalous and just plain wrong. (Applause.)

Mr. Hellman

We have a problem in our City. While cutting public recreation, the Street Administration is planning to increase funding for private organizations by some $20 million. What exactly do we get for the $92 million the Administration plans to spend. By Safe and Sound's own admission, after three years and more than $100 million, we get results that are, quote, mixed with inconsistent progress, end quote. If private organizations are so much better than public 119 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET recreation, why are we stuck for three years in the rut of mixed with inconsistent progress after spending so much of our money? (Applause.)

Mr. Hellman

To be honest, if Safe and Sound would be a subsidiary of some private corporation, UPS, for example, that corporation would long ago have sold off Safe and Sound for not producing profit commensurate with enormous investment. Yet the Street Administration takes the opposite approach. Funding for private organizations is increased, while public recreation is cut drastically. And this is a good time to point out that public recreation facilities and programs were ineligible to even apply for any Safe and Sound funding for three years. Last year the Managing Director made us eligible to apply for after school funding. However, none of the applications submitted for public recreation programs received any funding at all. In fact, none of the applicants ever even received a written decision, much less an 120 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET explanation as to why no funding was granted. The practical effect of our eligibility for funding is zero. To this day, public recreation programs and organizations are not eligible to apply for Beacon funding or family support funding, even though public recreation facilities have been serving our communities in that capacity for over 50 years. On Monday morning the Philadelphia Recreation Advisory Council filed a civil complaint in federal court. Among the defendants named in the complaint are the City of Philadelphia and Safe and Sound. (Applause.)

Mr. Hellman

PRAC is considering filing a separate complaint against Naomi Post-Street. Although a private citizen, PRAC believes Ms. Post is the chief architect of a scheme to privatize public recreation and remains the driving force behind Safe and Sound. It is PRAC's position that an independent finder of fact should decide whether the Mayor is meeting his obligations 121 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET to properly fund a department mandated in the Home Rule Charter. It is PRAC's position that a finder of fact should determine whether the authority of the Department of Recreation should be restored, including the repatriation of any and all funds misallocated or misapplied to or by Safe and Sound. It is PRAC's position that a finder of fact should examine the evidence and determine whether that evidence supports the conclusion that the Mayor, various other past and present City officials and Safe and Sound are attempting or have attempted to privatize public recreation by denying the voters an opportunity to amend the Home Rule Charter. It is PRAC's position that a finder of fact should decide whether public recreation programs and facilities have been treated fairly by the City of Philadelphia, Safe and Sound, and the so-called Children's Investment Strategy, or whether public recreation programs have been subject to bias favoring private organizations and have been denied reasonable 122 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET remedy through due process. It is PRAC's position that a finder of fact should be given the opportunity to determine whether Mayor Street was exercising proper discretion by creating a semi-private organization with a no-bid contract like Safe and Sound, that is free to spend millions and millions of taxpayer money without legislative safeguards specified in the Home Rule Charter. Is is PRAC's position whether a finder of fact should review the evidence and determine whether PRAC, our local advisory councils, our public recreation facilities and programs, and the children, youth and adults who participate in them have been damaged by the actions of the City and Safe and Sound, and if so, to what amount. (Applause.)

Mr. Hellman

PRAC is looking forward to the discovery period when volumes of documents from the City and Safe and Sound will become available for scrutiny so that the public can finally understand exactly who is doing what with our money. 123 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET PRAC begins this undertaking with eyes wide open. We know how difficult it is to fight City Hall. We know how the wagons will be circled. We know the City will mount an aggressive defense finding whatever funding is needed to do so. The Mayor can always find money when he wants to. PRAC is also aware of Mayor Street's reputation for vindictiveness at anyone's expense. The action of this very Council on January 5th is ample evidence of that. Even so, PRAC will pursue our course with vigor, determination and commitment because the future of public recreation in our City hinges on our effort. Public recreation for the citizens of Philadelphia is worth fighting for. Thank you. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Thank you. Mr. McCrea, I ask you to be brief as possible, please.

Mr. Mccrea

Good morning. Thank you again for the opportunity for all of us to testify. I know I came with a big group and we were all here on Monday, so some of us got 124 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET pushed off, so that's why the group is so big today.

Council President Verna

I understand.

Mr. Mccrea

I do apologize. But thank you for the time. As president of the Philadelphia Recreation Advisory Council, I represent 195 organizations, volunteer organizations, that work out of every recreation facility in the City. It's my responsibility to oversee and represent those volunteer organizations united in the common goal of partnering with the Recreation Department to deliver a wide variety of vitally needed services to every community across the City. Part of that responsibility is to bring us to the Council a message concerning the needs of our communities, including what we all need to do to better meet those needs. It is in that capacity that I testify today. Commissioner Richard testified that he plans to close 40 recreation facilities, 40 summer camps, 20 pools and all five ice rinks, 125 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET essentially turning out that over 500 summer seasonal jobs will be lost in the process of that as well. He seemingly left that out of his testimony. For the last four years, the Commissioner has been saying that there are too many recreation facilities and pools to serve the declining population.

Council President Verna

Mr. McCrea, just a moment, please. The noise level is much too high. Anyone having conversation, please do so in the corridor. Please proceed.

Mr. Mccrea

Thank you. While the population has declined, truancy, drugs, gangs, teen pregnancy, firearms, homicides and random violence both in schools and on the street has risen precipitously at the same time. Using statistics from Safe and Sound, in the last three-and-a-half years over 60 children a month under the age of 21 have been victims of gunshot violence. As responsible adults and elected leaders, we should be incensed with 126 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET that statistic. It is unthinkable that we would allow this kind of danger and damage to our children and youth while not taking extraordinary steps to reverse that trend. During the same three-and-a-half years our funding and resources have been drastically cut and should be obvious to anyone who lives in the real world that we don't have enough facilities and services to go around. It is clear that the Commissioner and the Mayor also don't reside in the same world that we do. While the Philadelphia Recreation Advisory Council does not support any closings of any facilities, if we actually had to choose, I think that there are more reasonable options than those already presented. Piggybacking on Councilman DiCicco's comments a couple weeks ago, let's consider Camp William Penn, for example. The camp serves a total of 400 children at a cost of $560,000 for just 29 days a year. Located on over 350 acres in the Pocono Mountains, camp property is conservatively worth $25 to $30 127 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET million. The cost of upkeep for that size of property for 29 days per year of use is simply not practical. Those same 400 children could be sent to private camp for considerably less money. Selling camp property would generate ample revenue that could be used to support existing public recreation facilities and services at no additional cost to the City. Another example of poor choice involves the percentage of department cuts that have been proposed. Of the $4 million proposed cuts, 80 percent is being taken from programs, another is being taken from maintenance and 15 administration is being cut just 1 percent. 16 Now, I ask you, if 99 percent of the 17 department's cuts are coming from program and 18 maintenance, why do we need the same level of 19 administrative personnel? The department's main goal has always been and will continue to be to provide services. Given that, programs should be at the bottom of the cut list, not the top. In all my years in volunteer service I have suffered with the Recreation Department 128 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET through the tough times and through somewhat more prosperous times when facilities were reopened and programs were expanded and adapted. Through good times and bad times we always shared the responsibility of delivering services to the community. We have never felt as disheartened as we do today. Public recreation has been under constant attack in the last four years, and it's clear that this Administration is trying to dismantle the Recreation Department and downplay our contributions as equal partners. The Street Administration is doing that by reducing our funding and resources while providing over $200 million to private organizations attempting to provide identical services. The fact is that private and non-profit organizations and advisory councils were specifically excluded from even applying for this funding, simply because we partnered with the Recreation Department. When we tried to address our grievances to various City officials, one City official from DHS told us to, quote, work 129 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET harder and do a better job, unquote, before rudely dismissing us with a flip of his middle finger. That obscene gesture is symptomatic of the Street Administration's attitude toward public recreation in Philadelphia. Public recreation services are what we do and what we will continue to do.

Mr. Mccrea

Even through all the unfairness, lack of appreciation and devastating lack of support, Philadelphia Recreation Advisory Council will remain in the forefront of the effort to provide for our children and youth. We do not proceed with our civil complaint lightly. It receives a great deal of thought and discussion, but with the Street Administration's obvious vendetta against public recreation, something had to be done to stop the bleeding. In their blindness, 60 gunshot victims a month may be good enough for the Street Administration, but it is not acceptable to us those of us, volunteers and staff together, who care, who really care. Thank you. ) 130 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Council President Verna

Thank you. And on behalf of all of the Members of City Council, I want to thank all of you for working so hard for the betterment of our communities, and we truly appreciate the countless hours that you volunteer in our recreation centers. Thank you very much.

Mr. Mccrea

Thank you. We appreciate your support as well.

Council President Verna

Sir, are you with the advisory.

Council President Verna

Your name.

Mr. Lewis

Karim Lewis. I have written testimony.

Council President Verna

Mr. Lewis, that will be given to the stenographer. It will be transcribed in full. I would ask you to please, please abbreviate your remarks.

Mr. Lewis

Good day, Madam Chair, and other honorable Members of Council present. My name is Karim Lewis. I am the founder and executive director of the Community Empowerment Network. Today I am testifying against the 131 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET closing of the City's recreation centers and swimming pools, ice rinks, particularly the Baker Recreation Center, located at 55th and Lansdowne and the Rose Recreation Center, located at 75th and Lansdowne Avenue, both from West Philadelphia. After supporting the Mayor in the past mayoral election, believing he was the best candidate for the neighborhoods of Philadelphia, I was disappointed to hear in March that he was proposing to close recreation centers without meeting with community leaders or their respective organizations, particularly with the Baker and Rose Playgrounds. , and in Rose's case, Overbrook Civic Association. Before and during this current Administration, monies provided by the City only covered the cost of one staff person and the utility cost. Volunteers coordinate programs, activities, maintain maintenance, such as cleaning, painting, cutting the grass 132 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET and managing their own security and safety programs at each of these facilities. Because volunteers in these communities run and maintain -- the 19th Police District can testify to this -- neither of these recreation centers has required the Safe Streets program to baby-sit our facilities, thus allowing the 19th Police District to work on designated drug corners, saving the City of Philadelphia millions of dollars in overtime pay. As a former director of community relations for the Anti-Drug/Anti-Violence Network, I can testify how both these centers are models of how the Mayor's Neighborhood Transformation Initiative should work. Neither of these two communities have had a stabbing or a shooting in their respective facilities during this era of the war on drugs beginning in the late 1980s. To cut off funding with no 22 plan is political hypocrisy. From an Administration promoting safe streets and NTI it is punishing those who are doing a fine job. After recently hearing that no money 133 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET would be allocated in the 4th Councilmanic District and now seven of our recreation centers are slated to be closed, as a taxpayer I feel we are victims of taxation without representation. This proposed budget does not save money if crime, drug dealers, blight and abandonment of properties are now given an open invitation to take over our recreation centers. This is exactly what would happen. Closing swimming pools in the hot summer months of July and August is a set-up for a catastrophe. Statistically, our youth are statistically the victims in the perpetrators of violence, particularly homicides, during these summer months when they are most reckless and restless. After a day or two inside the house fighting off 90 to 100 temperatures, they gain excess energy to burn. The swimming pools offer cool relief from the blistering summer heat. The City of Philadelphia has a responsibility to give them something positive to do, or they will surely find something negative to do. Again, statistically, the summer months have been when violence has 134 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET peaked in our City amongst young people. Closing the swimming pools would be a death sentence. These proposed budget cuts at the expense of our children's and youth's lives are a cost that we can ill afford to pay, after years of peaceful activities at these recreation centers maintained by minimum City finances and citizens willing to volunteer their time, labor and money from their own pockets. If a neighborhood fatality would come to Baker or Rose Playground, this Mayor's legacy will be anything but the neighborhood Mayor. In light of our nation's Executive Branch's war-time activities.

Mr. Lewis

A red light goes off whenever I hear a big government making decisions in a vacuum that have a major impact on the citizens.

Council President Verna

Please try to conclude your statement.

Mr. Lewis

Okay. The reason I deem that there is no 25 plan for the closing of these recreation 135 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET centers and swimming pools, in the last five weeks, I've seen five different lists of sites to be closed. Does anyone have a final official list? When seeking how the sites to be closed were selected, no one I spoke to had a direct answer, besides, it's the Commissioner's list. When inquiring about what happens to the facilities, no one has given me a direct response. The Mayor's administrative office I've spoken to has informed me that they're debating about leasing some of the centers to community-based organizations. There are studies being conducted on the feasibility of selling them to private companies run by sports facilities. Additionally, there is consideration to tear them down and sell the properties. But no one has spoken to the advisory councils of Rose or Baker. Let me --

Council President Verna

I'm sorry. You're really going to have conclude your statements. We're really getting so far behind 136 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET time. We have any number of people that still want to testify.

Mr. Lewis

Okay. I just want to say that in the previous Administration, there were other ways that supplemented the Recreation Department. Safe and Sound was a program that under the Rendell Administration was part of the Recreation Department. That supplemented us. Baker Playground is located in the Empowerment Zone. There's no reason that monies can't still be going to this playground. We haven't received a dime since the Empowerment Zone has been in existence. This program had $100 million to be spent over 15 years. One of the benchmarks was to fund some recreation or activities. That hasn't happened yet. So I'm just saying that, you know, the Rendell Administration would jump into the swimming pools in June and have corporate sponsors every year that helped supplement them. This City has not went to corporations to raise the $4 million. They can put their 137 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET logos on fences and gates, the basketball courts, like they do at the sports centers to advertise, and then this would be a tax write-off for them. I believe that with sports teams giving people $15 to $20 billion sign-on bonuses, they have a responsibility to give something back to young people who are athletes, who learn their craft at these sports centers. So I urge Council not to pass this 2004-2005 budget without funding for the 40 recreation centers and swimming pools and 14 five ice rinks. Thank you. 15

Council President Verna

You've got 16 your message over. You can stop. 17 (Applause.) 18

Council President Verna

Thank you. 19 I believe Tiffany Green was next to 20 speak. We really are on time constraints here. So, Tiffany, if you will identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Ms. Green

Tiffany Green. I'm 138 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET representing Smith Playground Advisory Council. I thank you very much for allowing us to speak. Smith Playground has been in our community since 1917. That's a very long time. I decided to come here today to talk from a human standpoint. People say, Tiffany, you're so passionate about keeping the recreation centers open. Why is that? Let me tell you why. Last year we decided to take a corner that had been not used for a very long time, 20th and Tasker. Councilwoman Ann Verna helped me and assisted me in getting the playground clean. The program went on. We had close to 100 boys come out for basketball league. During the middle of the summer, I remember a black mini-van drove up. The children and I had come out early, about 5:30, to clean the glass off the playground. A mini-van drove up, and jumped out was a young fellow about 18, and he unloaded a 9-millimeter gun, and all I heard was children saying, Miss Tiffany, Miss Tiffany. And I told them to get down on the ground. And at that time we had 139 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET been asking for police coverage because we knew 20th and Tasker has always been a hot corner. And we were told that they were understaffed and they did not have the manpower. I say all that to say that we need our recreation centers. Let's talk about the level of violence. I have not heard that, and I have been down here on three different occasions. The level of violence. If you take Brooklyn, New York, it has 2.4 million people and less shooting victims. Yet, Philadelphia has 1.5 million people, and since January 2004 we've had 90 shooting victims under the age of 17. That is very significant. Giving you a little history about Smith, here is an article I pulled back in April 1926 where Smith Pool -- it was written in the Evening Bulletin. Many of you remember that, the Evening Bulletin. And in this article, it states, "Smith Playground awaits in spring, the pool then a real joy." Well, the pool now is a real joy. Smith Playground and pool has been 140 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET utilized by three generations in South Philadelphia since 1917. Smith Playground services one of the largest communities in South Philadelphia, which is comprised of Point Breeze, Wilson Park and Passyunk neighborhoods. The youth member of eight large organizations and six school district schools use Smith. Mind you, none of these schools have an indoor or outdoor pool where the children can learn to swim. We have several new groups who have also started using Smith. That's the Cory Irving Basketball League where they provide free summer camp to over 100 youth, as well as the Mayor's own funded program there, Beacon, who have increased their outdoor activities at Smith Playground, not to mention Point Breeze Civic Association, who has been using Smith for the last 30 years, since the height of the gang war era. Smith plays a significant role in our community. It's apparent that the Smith Playground and pool are not only needed, but also over-utilized by the community in the 141 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET summertime, not only by organizations, but by individual children and adults who use the pool at night. Smith records show that last summer approximately 300 to 500 people used the pool daily, and that Smith's submitted utilization records for the budget cuts are inaccurate. And we do have those records.

Council President Verna

How did you come to that figure?

Ms. Green

We have the records where we went to Smith Playground --

Council President Verna

Will you show me a copy of whatever you have, so it doesn't take any of your time, please?

Ms. Green

Yes, I will you send you a copy of what we have.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Krajewski.

Councilwoman Krajewski

I'm just curious. Does the pool have the big sliding board at Smith Playground.

Ms. Green

Well, this is the Smith Playground in South Philadelphia, not in West Philadelphia. 142 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilwoman Krajewski

It's a different one, then?

Ms. Green

Yes. Because that's a historical site, that can never be touched, the Smith Playground. We're talking about Smith Playground in South Philadelphia.

Councilwoman Krajewski

I was just a little tyke when I went.

Ms. Green

And right now Smith not only offers several basketball leagues, but we also have instituted pickle ball. I don't know if any of you remember pickle pool. Smith is very important to us. Also, in South Philadelphia there's approximately recreation centers. 13 are in 17 white areas and 10 are black areas. And out of 18 the 10, five are proposed to be closed. And 19 these are areas that have a level of high 20 violence. So we need to take a look at that. 21 That is extremely important. 22 I just want to sum it up for you, 23 Councilwoman Verna.

Council President Verna

Please, Tiffany. 143 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Ms. Green

Here's a quick poem by Father Bruce Ritter from Brooklyn. I'm going with the Brooklyn theme. "Our Children Learn What They Live. If a child lives with criticisms, he learns to condemn. If a child lives with hostility, she learns to fight. If a child lives with fairness, she learns justice. If a child lives with acceptance and friendship, he learns to find love in the world. And if a child lives with nothing, he expects nothing." Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

Thank you. (Applause.)

Ms. Green

Next up I have Trudy Gay from the Wharton Square Park.

Council President Verna

I know that you're here to support all of the other recreation centers, and your name was not on the list. You're jumping ahead of people. I 144 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET would simply like you to identify yourself and just say that you support the recreation centers being kept open in your community.

Ms. Gay

Councilwoman Verna, my name was on the list, but there was a slip-up. I was coming under the name Mike McCrea.

Council President Verna

Your name was on the list, but I don't think your name was on the list. Please identify yourself for the record.

Ms. Gay

My name is Trudy Gay. I'm from the Wharton Square Recreation Center at 23rd and Wharton Street in South Philadelphia. Why I came today is because I wanted to thank you for removing the Wharton Square off the list of closings. That's why I was here.

Council President Verna

We haven't seen the final list, so from your mouth to God's ears. And I will tell you, you do a fabulous job, and there's absolutely no reason whatsoever that Wharton Square should be closed.

Ms. Gay

Thank you. 145 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Council President Verna

Thank you. Again, I'm going to ask you to please be brief. Please identify yourself for the record.

Ms. Brown

Good morning. My name is Tyleen Brown. I am a Philadelphia Alliance youth coordinator and a Chews Advisory Board member. Salutations to the Honorable John F. Street, Mayor or our fine City, to the most Honorable Anna C. Verna, Council President, distinguished Members of Council. I'd like to introduce Ms. Harriet Brown.

Ms. Harriet Brown

Good morning to this distinguished board. My name is Harriet Frye Brown, President of the Chew Advisory Council and founder of the Philadelphia Alliance for Community Improvement, of which I am also the president. I come before you today representing two playground advocate activists, parent, grandparent, community parent and neighbor born and raised here. The alpha of community service began before Council some 20-odd years ago, 146 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET remembering Councilwoman Krajewski offering assistance on behalf of Philadelphia's children and Southern Home Services. Those days were bright, full of hope, as we celebrated the year of the child. Their welfare, their recreation was, what do they need and how soon. The omega seems to say, annul their welfare and recreation and how soon. The omega seems to say, times are lost for our children. Our tax dollars, even from the disadvantaged, have provided brand-new multi-million dollar recreation centers at the southern most part of Broad Street for the boys of summer and autumn that working, middle class and working poor families cannot even afford. Is there a plan for Center City/South Philadelphia that calls for our trusted officials to allow resources to be acquired by developers for townhouses that are inhibited by those who can afford private recreation for themselves? Where lies the future of our children who no longer have summer jobs, who are now subjected to the lures of drug dealing, addiction and violence. Our children look to 147 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET us as providers and protectors, providing a safe haven, an environment of learning, recreation and moral fortitude. I challenge each and every one of us to be answerable to that calling. Say no to leaving our children to wander the streets and swelter in concrete without relief. Say yes to our obligation as caring members of society and keepers of our children's well-being. In closing, Chew Playground is utilized; CAPA track, cross country softball teams, Thomas Jefferson University softball, Kencrest Special Needs, Lincoln Day Care, Arthur School, churches and communities come to Chew for services. Our pool schedule is active, including swim teams. Our day camp is self supportive. Please understand our day care is self supportive, which includes swim time for 40-plus children of working parents. Some of our programs are inhibited from a lack of maintenance and support personnel who are mandated to work elsewhere. Because of personnel shortages, we cannot increase our recreation population and are 148 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET requesting capital improvements for our baseball field, our pool and building. As God watches over us, I submit to you respectfully, Harriet Frye Brown.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much, Harriet.

Ms. Harriet Brown

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you all so very much for coming in to testify. And we appreciate all of the work that you do for the community.

Mr. Mcpherson

The next witness is Harry Harrison from the African-American Museum of Art. And after Mr. Harrison is Ed Gross from the Greater Philadelphia Hotel Association.

Council President Verna

Good morning, Mr. Harrison. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Harrison

Madam President, Members of the Council, other presenters and friends, good afternoon. My name is Harry 149 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Harrison, and I am president of the African-American Museum in Philadelphia. Many of you have probably heard or read about us in the paper in the recent days, as I've tried to explain to the media why the museum hasn't paid our staff in over a month. In the midst of these institutional crises --

Council President Verna

Excuse me just a moment, please. I just got a copy of your testimony, which appears to be extremely lengthy. It will be given to the stenographer. It will be transcribed in full. If you can abbreviate your testimony, we'd appreciate it. Thank you.

Mr. Harrison

Sure. In the midst of these institutional crises, our doors remain open because we have a dedicated and a loyal professional staff. They cared about their responsibilities, getting the job done before the layoffs and after the layoffs and before the projected budget cuts. My entire staff volunteered to work throughout the crisis, and I commend them from the depths of my heart. The museum doors remain open. 150 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET With the $135,000 advance from the City of Philadelphia, we were able to compensate the staff for full and part-time workers for their previous labor. I came here today with what I believe to be a carefully constructed factual assessment of the reasons why I support an institution such as the African-American Museum makes good business sense. In the days between my preparation of this testimony and today, I've come to realize that support, not at a reduced level, not at the current level, but I've come to realize that we need expanded support. That must be the goal. I am humbled by the enormous show of support from elected officials, community groups and businesses that have rallied to our aid, and of course I look forward to being the beneficiary of their spontaneous contributions. The African-American Museum plays an important role in our understanding of the African-American culture and its relationship to cultures around the world; who are we, where 151 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET we came from, what unites us. These are but a few of the questions that are asked in that only the museum can help us to understand and answer. My board and my staff know that, and that's why we are keeping our doors open in these frightening times. The community knows it. That's why our phones haven't stopped ringing since the stories broke. And I hope when I'm finished today, you know that this City's best hope of bridging the economic divide is through the knowledge, understanding and passion that the African-American Museum brings to the City of Philadelphia. Let me share with you an allegory. In many ways, the evolution of the African-American Museum in Philadelphia can be compared to that of the other woman, a dignified woman who has endured an unsatisfactory relationship with a notable gentleman, the City of Philadelphia, for 28 years. She had been promised many wonderful things during the bicentennial courtship, but those grand plans were never realized. She 152 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET remained hopeful. Eventually, the noble gentleman built her a house, but it was not a home. Yet she remained faithful in her love for the gentleman. She made due. Then the children came, and of course they loved their mother and their noble father. But respect was limited. There was never enough food, and so they become accustomed to the crumbs and leftovers. They had a marginal existence, yet outsiders heard of their devotion to educate and preserve their ethnic heritage, and the masses flocked to meet her. Family heirlooms and histories were freely given, and soon she had amassed over 750,000 objects and documents of high value. Yet the home looked barren. More children came, and the house became overcrowded. Space was at a premium, but the noble father did little to improve their lives. He was content to visit for a short time and enjoy the space that the mother created. Then he would go away again. The children loved their mother and often wondered when the noble gentleman would spend more time 153 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET with the family. Years passed and the woman aged. Still, she remained a vibrant, attractive, fascinating woman. Visitors and relatives admired her. More and more people came to see her and listened to her stories. As time progressed, her noble gentleman became more distant and withdrawn from his children, excusing his lack of interest by saying they were now grown and should be able to care for themselves.

Mr. Harrison

But he forgot that the mother of his children still needed support if she was to continue her work and teach future generations. The City of Philadelphia is well suited to play the role of the noble gentleman, enjoying the attention the museum receives and proud of its accomplishments, the collections, exhibitions and programs, providing a building. Funding is the basic and moving further and further away from active participation and strong support.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Mr. Harrison, how many employees do 154 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET you have?

Mr. Harrison

I have a total of 4 full-time employees. 5

Council President Verna

15 6 full-time and four part-time? 7

Mr. Harrison

Yes. That's right. 8

Council President Verna

And with 9 the funds that were advanced you, will they 10 cover all of the employees up until July 1? 11

Mr. Harrison

Well, we are doing an 12 active and aggressive fund-raising to make 13 sure that we can successfully complete this 14 fiscal year without great distress. 15

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you. Good morning. How are you? Or is it afternoon? You know, I know about financial institutions and funding. My question that comes to you is, how many members are on your board?

Mr. Harrison

33. 155 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilwoman Tasco

Is there any financial requirement to be a board member? Are they required to raise or give any money to the museum.

Mr. Harrison

Their commitment is $1,000.

Councilwoman Tasco

How many of them make that commitment.

Mr. Harrison

I'll say 70 percent.

Councilwoman Tasco

What is the action you can take if they're not coming up to their commitment.

Mr. Harrison

Well, we can ask them to become current or we can ask them to seek other ways to fulfill their commitment. If they're not active financially, they can be asked to withdraw from the board according to the bylaws.

Councilwoman Tasco

How is the board appointed.

Mr. Harrison

Through a nomination Committee.

Councilwoman Tasco

Is the $1,000 commitment a commitment that's in the bylaws 156 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET or can that commitment be changed.

Mr. Harrison

It could be changed.

Councilwoman Tasco

Have you all done an analysis of the board members to see if, one, one continues to be active as board members; two, if they're making their commitment, and just what is their future participation as a board member.

Mr. Harrison

We have not done that analysis.

Councilwoman Tasco

I think that's important because financial institutions want to know first what your board is doing. And I think part of your success could be in trying to identify those board members who have the resources who can serve on the board and be financially supportive of the museum. That will give you some basis to hire the necessary staff to go out and do the fund-raising for you. I know the executive director does that. But having a development officer is very important. So I think that the assessment of board would be most helpful. And then those 157 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET people who are not performing need to go. And you need to ask people to serve on the board who have an interest and a commitment to the museum and then have term limits. Are there term limits?

Councilwoman Tasco

If they don't make their commitments, they just have to go. Because it is very important to the survival of that institution, and also to your ability to reach out to the broader community to gain additional support.

Mr. Harrison

Thank you, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for your testimony. I wanted to ask you to put on the record for us, as we did with the Philadelphia Museum of Art and a 158 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET couple other institutions -- you talked in your testimony about the relationship with the City of Philadelphia of some 28 years. Could you explain in a little more detail on the record in slightly less maybe romantic terms what the relationship is between the City and the museum from the start, what it has been, what are the contractual terms and conditions of any agreement that may exist, what funding was provided when the museum was built or created? That kind of information from the start.

Mr. Harrison

Sure. The museum is actually the first municipality African-American structure that was built by a municipality in the country. So in many ways, with the Philadelphia persona, this museum was a first in terms of the way it was constructed. It was constructed with City funds.

Councilman Nutter

So the City of Philadelphia provided funding for the construction of the museum.

Mr. Harrison

Yes. And they continue to support the museum in terms of the capital expenditures and things of that sort. 159 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Nutter

Is there a lease agreement between the City and the museum?

Mr. Harrison

Yes, there is.

Councilman Nutter

What are the terms and conditions of that lease? What are the City's financial obligations, either from an operating budget or capital expenditure responsibility.

Mr. Harrison

We would estimate around $100,000 in terms of capital.

Councilman Nutter

No. I'm not asking you for the amount. I'm asking you, can you provide to the Chair for us a copy of the lease.

Mr. Harrison

Yes. I have a copy with me.

Councilman Nutter

What I'm interested in is, for the moment, not the dollar amounts, but what does the lease say in terms of the actual obligations by the City of Philadelphia. Do you possibly have more than one copy with you?

Mr. Harrison

No. I just brought 160 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET one copy.

Councilman Nutter

We'll get it copied while we're here. I'm sorry, ma'am. Have you identified yourself? MS. REBO (ph): Excuse me. Yes. My name is Joy Rebo and I'm an employee of the museum. "The undersigned represents that it owns the premises. The undersigned as lessor and the borrower as lessee agree to no 13 knowledge in the event of default as defined in the lease." Forgive me. I'm skipping to try to just pull out certain points.

Councilman Nutter

I understand.

Ms. Rebo

"The undersigned understands that borrower has executed or will be executing a loan agreement in connection with financing. Undersigned acknowledges that the borrower during the term of the lease and prior to the termination of the lease shall have the right from time to time to remove such equipment, personality and trade fixtures. 161 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Undersigned agrees to indemnify and hold harmless the City of Philadelphia from any and all injuries and damages." And that essentially, other than the signatories, is the lease.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Why don't we do this. Let me ask you a couple of other questions, and while we're in that Q and A or while you're talking with other Members, if you could maybe give that lease to the gentleman behind you and we can have some copies made. What's the annual budget of the museum.

Mr. Harrison

$1.7 million.

Councilman Nutter

And the City's support has been $300,000, 330,000.

Mr. Harrison

Yes. $300,000.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And the rest of the funding you've raised from either other governments or private supporters.

Mr. Harrison

Yes. We get about $300,000 from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And the rest is through admissions, earned income and fund-raising. 162 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Nutter

Then maybe my last question will be, have there been a series of audits over the past few years? And I'm assuming you must have either a chief financial or a development committee, a chair or -- I don't know the entire structure, but I have to assume that you've been having, probably as many other similarly situated facilities, financial problems over the past few years?

Councilman Nutter

It's not just something that has recently happened; is that correct?

Councilman Nutter

And was a plan put into place whenever you recognized or identified that you're having some problems?

Councilman Nutter

Is the plan working?

Mr. Harrison

The plan is working. The funds that we are seeking are coming in slowly. And that creates the distress.

Councilman Nutter

When was your 163 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET most recent financial report?

Mr. Harrison

The most recent audited report was 2002.

Councilman Nutter

Well, where is your 2003?

Mr. Harrison

It is finished.

Councilman Nutter

Are you on a fiscal year or a calendar year?

Mr. Harrison

We're on a fiscal year. Our fiscal year begins July 1 and ends June 30th.

Councilman Nutter

So your last audited financials were from June 30, 2002?

Councilman Nutter

What happened with your FY '03 audit?

Mr. Harrison

The report is done. We have to review it and we have to pay the auditors.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. When was it completed?

Mr. Harrison

I think it was completed in February.

Councilman Nutter

Of this year? 164 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Harrison

Yes, sir.

Councilman Nutter

How much does it cost?

Mr. Harrison

The final cost is $8,400.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Does the lack of audited financials negatively impact your ability to raise money?

Councilman Nutter

That's all I have for the moment, Madam Chair. I may come back. Thank you.

Councilman Dicicco

Good afternoon. Mr. Harrison, about a year or so ago, I had the opportunity to meet with some of the folks over at the museum. I don't believe I met you there at that time. I'm not sure if I did. I don't recall .

Mr. Harrison

We did. I had a beard.

Councilman Dicicco

You don't look like the same guy now as you did then. That's for sure. So I apologize. I meet so many people. No disrespect to you. You had a 165 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET beard, so I can understand that. During that discussion I did a tour of the facility. I know the facility has some real serious capital issues to address. At the time there was some leakage in the building and some ceiling that needed to be done. I would hope that some of those things that we talked about were addressed. I had someone from Public Property and/or the Department of Rec with me.

Mr. Harrison

Yes, some of those have been addressed.

Councilman Dicicco

I think also, though, part of the discussion had to do with the facility itself and the fact that the layout, the floor plan, doesn't lend itself to a museum in the manner in which it would be more useful, more user-friendly, if you will. I think there was some conversation about, in lieu of trying to retrofit the building and bring it up to the level of where it would be more user-friendly, that maybe there was an opportunity to look at some other site or sites. Given the financial constraints 166 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET that we're faced with today, it would be somewhat ridiculous to talk about constructing a new building because the likelihood of that happening is remote during this particular time. I'd like to share with you a comment. Think about it. I don't know if it will work. There are some museums that are all struggling in terms of fund-raising and being able to maintain a level of usability, if you will, that maybe there's an opportunity to consolidate some of these facilities into a larger facility where you can subdivide the operations. It may sound like pie in the sky right now, but I think it's something that we need to look at. Again, looking at your facility and the fact that it needs some considerable capital improvements, would it not be better if we can take some of that money that we would put into there and use it at another site? I use Atwater Kent as an example. I spoke to the folks from Atwater Kent. No one wants to hear that. We all like to have our own little turf and individuality, and I can 167 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET appreciate and respect that. But given the finances of the City and where it may be looking going forward, it just becomes every year more and more difficult for us to accommodate all those needs. There may be a building or two in the 1st Councilmanic District or another district where you can joint venture, if you will, consolidate, having your own distinct individuality in terms of what your museum represents, but in a larger building where there may be two museums sharing the space, which would certainly reduce the cost, capital cost, maintenance cost, significantly for your institution. And I'm using Atwater Kent. It could be another institution or institutions. I don't need a comment from you now. It's just food for thought. I don't even know if we could find a building that would accommodate all of the folks that might be willing to do that. But I think it's something we really should be talking about going forward. The Art Museum I know has another 168 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET facility across from their main facility, which was the old insurance company building off of the Parkway. They're going to be using that. There probably is no room in there. But they thought about that. We've talked about using the Art Museum and incorporating some of their exhibits into other facilities that may provide additional patronization of those places. If there's something that the Art Museum has on display that is somehow connected to the African-American culture, why not share some of that with the African-American Museum so that both of you can have some of the patrons that would be coming through your doors, which helps with revenue? Again, just a comment.

Mr. Harrison

I appreciate your comment.

Councilman Dicicco

I'm looking to figure out a way in which we could all at the end of the day keep all of these places open and put less of a strain on any individuals who have to go out and figure out how to raise the money year in and year out. Thank you. 169 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Mr. Harrison.

Mr. Harrison

Good afternoon.

Councilman Goode

What percentage of your budget comes from the City of Philadelphia.

Mr. Harrison

I would say around 35 to 40 percent.

Councilman Goode

What percentage do you believe should come from the City of Philadelphia.

Mr. Harrison

I would estimate at least 55 percent.

Councilman Goode

How long has it been at that funding level.

Mr. Harrison

It's been at this funding level for at least five years and is declining.

Councilman Goode

Are you aware of any request for an increase in funding over 170 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET those five years.

Mr. Harrison

No, I have not.

Councilman Goode

Have you made any request for an increase in funding over those five years.

Mr. Harrison

No. I've only been here three --

Council President Verna

He hasn't been here that long.

Councilman Goode

Why is there not a request within your testimony?

Mr. Harrison

I did.

Councilman Goode

What is the amount.

Mr. Harrison

I didn't put a dollar amount. I did ask for an increase.

Councilman Goode

The question is, if we're funding the museum at a certain percentage, you believe that percentage should be higher. No one has ever made that request. You're here testifying today. I'm asking, is there a specific percentage or dollar amount that you believe the City should be funding and why not offer that as part of your testimony? 171 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Harrison

I'll be glad to do that. I'll amend my testimony.

Councilman Goode

So you believe the City funding should be what?

Mr. Harrison

55 percent.

Councilman Goode

Of $1.7?

Councilman Goode

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Harrison, I was a little concerned -- come back to the agreement -- because I thought you said that your budget was $1.7 million, and you get $330,000 from the City?

Mr. Harrison

No. I get $300,000 from the City. $270,000 is being proposed.

Councilman Nutter

It was $300,000 last year and there's a $30,000 cut.

Mr. Harrison

Yes, sir.

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry. I was 172 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET under the impression it was $330,000 going to $300,000. But in response to Councilman Goode, I thought you said that your present percentage of your budget funded by the City was 30, 35 percent. Was that your answer.

Mr. Harrison

My calculation may be a little off. I can double-check that.

Councilman Nutter

It's more like 17, 18, something like that.

Mr. Harrison

It's more like 17, 18.

Councilman Nutter

And then again when you responded the second time with the enhanced funding from Councilman Goode, you're now suggesting that you'd like to be at the 55 percent level on a $1.7 million budget. All right. The document that you were reading from earlier, when I asked you about a lease -- which has now been copied -- this is a document from January of '03. When I asked about a lease, I was assuming that there was a document back from '76 or so. Do you have any 173 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET other lease agreement with the City of Philadelphia from the time that the museum was created. This document seems to have more to do with a financing or a borrowing; is that correct?

Mr. Harrison

Yes. I looked at it and it said, Landlord Assessment Agreement.

Councilman Nutter

It's a landlord's agreement, but it's about an entity called First County Bank providing financing to you related to articles and items at the museum. But it's signed by the current Recreation Commissioner back in January of '03. What I'm asking you about is a lease or license agreement between the museum and the City of Philadelphia back from the time that the museum was built.

Mr. Harrison

Okay. Council Nutter, I will have to get that for you. I did not bring that with me.

Councilman Nutter

Is there such a document. 174 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Harrison

I would assume there is.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. That's what I'm really looking for because I want to better understand what the nature is of any obligation that may have been created between the City and the museum back at that time. We've in the course of these budget hearings have had the opportunity to look at lease agreements, for instance, between the City and the Philadelphia Museum of Art; one from, I think, 1928 or 1929, and one from 1968, that lay out in some amount of detail what the City's obligations are to the Philadelphia Museum of Art, another institution that we built and own. So I'm looking for the same kind of document. This one has virtually nothing to do with what I'm looking for. It's something about a financing that you did about 10 years ago.

Mr. Harrison

I will research that and get it to you as soon as possible.

Councilman Nutter

Well, get it to the Chair and the Chair will get it to us. 175 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Harrison

I will.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think I have that lease at home. I'll get it for you in the archives. I would hope that before we consider -- and I know that relocating the museum is an alternative. But I would hope before we would do that -- the new Please Touch Museum, that would always be an opportunity. I would hope -- and I'd like to hear from you -- if we do everything right, if you do the best you can do and raise the money, do some things that are out of the box and try to go after money that you've never gone after before, do you believe that you can salvage it and keep it where it is? Again, if we can get you the funding that the City should be providing and the state should be providing, that continues, do you 176 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET believe that we can keep this museum at its current location and keep it operating the way that it should operate?

Mr. Harrison

As Councilman DiCicco stated earlier, there are some capital expenditures that we would have to implement in order to bring it up to acceptable museum standards. It was built primarily as a pavilion, not as a museum. And so the retrofit that has taken place over the last 20-some years has been to bring it up to code in terms of the application and standards for museums around the country. So it would take some working, yes, but we could make it happen.

Councilman Rizzo

I'm not talking about an aggressive program to do all of this next year, or the year after. But again, getting stabilized, getting back on track, and then talking about a capital program that could do the things you just described, do you think you can really do that? Based on the few weeks now, the month or so that you're really beating the bushes, do you really think that there's an opportunity to save this. 177 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Harrison

Yes, sir. I really do believe that.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. Mr. Harrison, thank you very much. We appreciate your coming in. Mr. Ed Grose.

Mr. Mcpherson

He will be followed by Mr. Eddis.

Council President Verna

Is Mr. Eddis here? If you would just approach the front so that right after Mr. Grose you can testify. Thank you so much for your patience. We appreciate your coming in. Please identify yourself for the record.

Mr. Grose

Good afternoon. My name is Ed Grose. I'm the executive director of the Greater Philadelphia Hotel Association, speaking on behalf of David Newhart, our president, who had been here on Monday when we were originally scheduled to testify, but who is unable to be here today. Thank you for this 178 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET opportunity to speak with you regarding the re-instatement of budget allocation to the City's arts and cultural institutions. Philadelphia fortunes have long been boosted by such world-class institutions and performance arts such as the Rodan Museum, the Academy of Music, the Philadelphia Opera Company, Koresh Dance Company and the African-American Museum. That fact is more true today than ever before, since jobs in the City economy no longer depend on proximity to manufacturing. Over the past two decades we have seen many corporate headquarters, some through mergers and acquisitions, leave the City. As has been the trend, more and more jobs are created through the hospitality industry here in Philadelphia. We must continue to do all that we can to support that industry and make it as attractive to business, leisure and convention travelers as possible. Philadelphia hotels alone employ about 14,000 workers, and we estimate 80 percent of those live in the City of 179 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Philadelphia. Our region's cultural assets are one of the top three reasons why businesses relocate here, according to a Gallop survey reported last year by the Arts and Business Council of Greater Philadelphia. Among those top three reasons was overall quality of life, which I am convinced is strongly influenced by our rich atmosphere of history, tradition and cultural achievement. We have the best Convention Center in the country, with just about every major brand of hotel offering rooms for every traveler's budget, special needs and most within easy walking distance of the Center. Few other cities can say that they have more than 10,000 hotel rooms in an area that offers all of this and some of the most amazing restaurants in the world, from five star gems to South Philly's finest. But even with all of this and proximity by air, land, sea or train, our hotels are seeing about only a 66 percent occupancy rate this year, with a possible dip projected for next year. We have seen that dip 180 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET hit the bottom lines of other industries, including our office building market, restaurants -- some closing forever -- and some hotels converting into residential units. What hurts one part of the travel and hospitality business hurts all of it. Why at this critical time would we do something that can only hurt the image and attraction to the City by cutting the budget for our cultural and arts organizations, which are so much a fabric of our history and appeal? A study conducted last year from the Travel Industry Association of America and Smithsonian Magazine shows continued and growing interest in travelers' desire to experience cultural arts, historic and heritage activities. We are talking about 81 percent of US adults, or 118 million travelers, that are considered historic, cultural travelers. Even if we are to believe that the future for cultural institutions is that they must learn to rely on less and less public funding and more on private support, how can we in 181 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Philadelphia consider such a severe cut at this time? Why at a time when millions of dollars in advertising is being spent through our convention, travel and tourism agencies, which emphasize our arts, history and cultural institutions as a big attraction would we consider cutting the budget for our cultural venues? Who has not seen the ad with Philadelphia's own Kevin Bacon touting the arts and culture of his hometown?

Mr. Grose

Even the state's new ad campaign hits the historic, ethnic and cultural appeal the state has to offer, and that includes Philadelphia institutions. Travelers, according to the study I just mentioned, often are influenced to select their destination choice by a specific history or cultural event or activity. Four in 10 added extra time to their trips specifically because of the historical and/or cultural activities. If business travelers extend a stay to take in a Monet, a Philadelphia Orchestra concert or visit the Mummers Museum, it means that they extend their stay in the 182 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET City, will dine in our restaurants, rent cars, buy newspapers, shop and sip coffee at mini cafes. If getting our share of this segment of travelers' time were not so important, our individual hotels and room tax dollars used to market the City would not go into hotel packages developed in cooperation with the GPTMC or Convention Bureau when the Art Museum has a Monet exhibit or the flower show is held at the Convention Center. Last year alone, visitors here to see the Digascio spent $3 million in our hotels, while direct economic impact to that same show brought in $27 million to the City. More than any other industry its size Philadelphia's non-profit cultural industry provides a major competitive advantage for the region. The area's reputation for world-class arts and culture helps define our image and adds significant value to regional companies. Our non-profit institutions provide irreplaceable value for the region. They create an image of quality and creativity, which is the foundation for knowledge 183 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET industries of the future. They foster sensation of achievement and reverence for excellence and help companies recruit and retain talented workers. They boost the region to a leadership position in the growing cultural tourism market and enhance and bolster the area's extensive for-profit cultural sector. Philadelphia was prominent in the 1700s as the largest City in the western hemisphere, and is now recognized as America's seat of history. Greater Philadelphia's non-profit cultural sector is a $300 million industry with more than 5,500 direct full and part-time employees. The economic impact for the five-county region supports an impressive $564 million in spending, more than 11,000 jobs, combined annual compensation of nearly $200 million and more than $10 million for the state and $6 million to the City from income and sales taxes. Across the region, other regions have recognized the strong economic value of cultural and the arts by developing ways to 184 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET financially support their institutions of greatness. Regional business leaders in Charlotte raise $4 million a year from Workplace Giving Campaign in support of the Regional Arts Council. Corporate leaders in Silicon Valley raise $12 million for endowments that provide ongoing support to cultural organizations. Denver raises $22 million annually for their arts from a dedicated regional sales tax. Since it began in 1989, attendance at cultural institutions have grown by 39 percent and total income has climbed by 99 percent. How does the City's reputation for world-class arts and culture translate into economic growth? The ultimate goal in economic development is to become a hot City, a name that is known to every recruiter, business analysts, and journalists as a great place to live and work. Harvard economist Rosabeth Moss-Canter (ph) says companies increasingly view their home cities as show places. 185 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET In larger companies, top managers and professionals are recruited on a national and international basis. Companies need to make sure their home city has maximum amenities and minimum problems in order to compete for talent in the global market.

Mr. Grose

Economist David Birch (ph) reported that regions that can attract workers will naturally attract companies. A region that supports artistic creativity is more likely to support the kind of risk-taking attitudes prevalent in the entrepreneur economy, he said. It's obvious that we cannot chase smokestacks in our search for job growth. Instead of giving large grants or tax breaks to lure companies here, regions with an eye towards the future are focussing on improving their existing public assets. The economic development goal should be to make this region as attractive to conventioneers, tourists and meeting and relocation planners as possible. Let us find a way to help our cultural, historic and arts venues to stand on their own so that they can continue to be a 186 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET magnet to attract meeting planners, convention and leisure travelers to the City, not cut off their funding when they're so much a part of our fabric of our City. Hurting them at this time hurts all Philadelphians.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Again, I want to thank you for your patience. I know that you were represented on Monday, and I can tell you that I truly believe that the greater majority of the Councilmembers truly concur with your assessment, that it's very important that we continue to fund the arts and cultural institutions. As you said, it actually has a domino effect. We concur with your assessment and we're going to work very hard to try to correct this issue. Thank you so much. .

Mr. Grose

Great. I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Mr. Mcpherson

Mr. Eddis.

Mr. Eddis

Good afternoon.

Council President Verna

Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. 187 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Eddis

Bob Eddis, president of Philadelphia Lodge 5. I'd also like to introduce the gentlemen that are here with me today. Joe Coyle, Gene Blackman, and Kenny Rox (ph).

Council President Verna

How do you do?

Mr. Eddis

Madam President, Councilman Rizzo, on behalf of our members, we'd like to come to you and explain to you a little situation that we have when we review the budget. We never see that the City employees are included in it. And we see at the time that the City is trying to make great decisions because we know we're at a key point that this has to also be looked at. We look at the history. We look back at 1992 when the City was in the same strife and we see the price that was paid. We see it was the Philadelphia Police Officer who took the $6,000 pay cut. They've never been able to gain that back since that time. We believe very strongly that we're 188 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET a world-class City and we need to continue along that way. We don't see that happening as a result of libraries, health centers and the Mounted Unit in itself being closed down, unless the people are out there themselves seeing the services that are performed. I apologize for my casual dress today, but this as a result of my most enjoyable day, which is Wednesday. I get to go out and ride with the officers and be able to relate to the officers and also talk to the community to see where the interaction is going, to see what the real quality of life issues are and how they feel in regard to that. As we go around, a lot of times we're viewed in a different light and different people based on different parts of the community, but the one thing that everybody is seeing now is that we feel strong in where we're going within this community and we want to be a part of it. We also feel that our officers need to be able to be in a position where they're going to be able to be 189 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET compensated for the work services. When people came up here earlier in regard to talking about the news and the press and seeing people hurt, we're the ones that unfortunately have to deal with that price. Our fear is that these empty playgrounds become crime scenes. Is this where we're going to carry our children out of this summer? When we talk about injuries, I think we're qualified to speak in that regard because 800 police officers a year get hurt. We find it very significant that here we are in the middle of National Police Week standing here trying to explain the necessity in order to be able to keep the quality of life in our City to make sure that everybody knows the significance of where we're trying to go. I promise you I'm going to keep this within five minutes because I respect the other people who have to come after us, but we just feel strongly that there's certain points that we have to make. As we said, in regard to any time there's a decrease of something, 190 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET something always has to be removed. We know that. You can't take away a tax without removing something in the process. We believe that there does need to be change; however, we just feel that now may not be the time because of the situation we're in. Sure, it's important that our economic growth continues, that businesses continue to come to the City, but what's the City? Where are we going to be? What's the quality of life for the people every single day when they don't have the availability to be able to go and take advantage of the libraries? I sit in a unique situation right now. I have a 19-year-old daughter who's currently up Seton Hall in special ed and speech pathology. And I'm asking her, are you going to come back to the City of Philadelphia? She said, dad, I can't. I don't want to raise my family there. I said, why. She said, I don't feel as if it's safe. She didn't say anything about the business. She didn't say anything about that. I didn't ask her to give me the answer I want. 191 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET I just feel that we need to keep our City safe. We need the support of Council as we have always had in the past. We strongly respect the significance of the role that Council plays.

Mr. Eddis

We also know that the officers that we have in our City deserve to be considered, because during the last years, 9 last 20 years, last 25 years in this City, we 10 always hear, we can't do this because of 11 budgetary reasons. 12 We saw in the beginning of this year 13 where Council was able to receive a raise. We 14 never came out against that because we saw for 15 the last 10, 12, 15 years, Councilmembers never received a raise. So we're not just going to be out there banging drums and screaming. That's not our approach. Our approach is to try to send a message that we need to be able to have these things on track, but we have to look at it to say, is the timing right now? Is our City where it should be? Unfortunately on February 11th -- fortunately, I was with my wife up in New York 192 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET City. Unfortunately, I turn on the television after returning from St. Pat's Cathedral -- it was my wife's 50th birthday -- and low and behold, there we have on the news about a young man being killed at 23rd and Cambria. And the question I asked is, if it was 1974, if it was 1984, if it was 1994, if it was 2004, why did it have to be 23rd and Cambria? Nothing has really changed that much in the area quality of life. Business is very important. But our most important asset is the citizens of this City, the children of this City, and I know that the Council people feel that way, and am just imploring you with this time to take a strong look prior to making any cuts to see what the long-term effects would be for the quality of life for the people who live here, who stay here and who love this City. Thank you. )

Council President Verna

Thank you. I just want to ask you a question, if I may. You mentioned about the mounted police. When the Police Commissioner was in 193 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET here and he was talking about the elimination of the mounted police, I think I questioned him what the saving would be. And he indicated it would be a saving of $700,000. Somebody told me they heard on television that the saving was more like $20,000. Do you have any knowledge of that? And do we still have the mounted police, or are we waiting until this budget goes through to decide whether or not the mounted police would continue?

Mr. Eddis

Unfortunately, the Mounted Police Unit is being disbanded, and the process has already began. From our numbers, calculations, we're told approximately it's a savings of $400,000. And our question is, if we're going to be a world-class City who spends millions of dollars to try to bring in events -- work one parade, one Flyers parade, and see the advantage in the lives that are saved as a result having that horse.

Council President Verna

We may have bicycles, but what would happen to the former Commissioner with the bicycles? Didn't 194 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET he have to come in from out of town to go to hearing a couple weeks ago?

Mr. Eddis

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

I don't know of anybody that's going to be able to pick up a horse, but they can certainly pick up the bicycles.

Mr. Eddis

You can clear a crowd. And as I said earlier, unfortunately we see 800 officers a year getting hurt .

Council President Verna

It's absurd. That's not many more than mounted police for crowd control. I'm not the Police Commissioner, but to me it just doesn't make any sense. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

I think there's a point of information, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Councilman, you have a point of information? I'm sorry.

Councilman Rizzo

I was just going to add if the Police Department would start 195 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET collecting the money that they pay police officers to work overtime off duty, that the mounted police plus we could have bought a couple motorcycles and bikes. My point being is -- no criticism of the Police Commissioner -- but there are some administrative problems in that Police Department, that they're not watching the money as closely as they should. I can tell you that it distresses me to see that mounted unit gone, because I think we all know who brought it back. If the money was being spent wisely within that Police Department, we wouldn't have to be worrying about $400,000 to fund the Mounted Police Unit. Thank you, Madam President.

Mr. Eddis

Councilman, Madam Chair, may I make one other comment? We're also, as a result of the services that we provide to the surrounding communities that are also going to benefit from some of these decreases, we're charged the expenses. Our bomb squad is utilized as a result of its qualifications throughout the 196 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET whole entire Philadelphia County with no 3 revenue coming back to the City as a result of the utilization of this service. Somewhere along the line that charge could help offset and make the people in the City want to stay in this City.

Councilman Rizzo

Basically what you're saying is that when we provide that service of the bomb squad, that we should be being compensated for that? I agree with you.

Mr. Eddis

Well, we have to train the officers. It's our officers that are put in jeopardy. If there going to be utilized, we have no problem having them be utilized, but where can you go and have that kind of service and not have some kind of cost?

Councilman Rizzo

Exactly. I agree with you totally. I'm going to put that on my list.

Council President Verna

Are you referring to other jurisdictions, if our officers go to other jurisdictions?

Mr. Eddis

Yes, ma'am. Another one of our basic problems is just vests and 197 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET radios. We have major problems in our City. And when we see a budget cut, we're saying what chance do we have now to provide our officers the necessary safety? We're not trying to cry the blues, but 800 officers a year are getting hurt. What are we doing?

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Mariano.

Councilman Mariano

Thank you, Madam President. Mr. Eddis, I'm very interested in all this terrorism stuff -- not that I'm interested, but it's something we should be concerned about, as you all are. I know Chief Inspector O'Connor very well. The chief does stuff -- I saw him on TV last night, what they did down at Lincoln Financial Stadium. That's a drain on your department and money that you wouldn't have prior to 9/11. Now, 9/11, this is a really happening and we have to respond. 198 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET I saw on TV -- and that might have been what Councilman Rizzo was talking about -- our bomb squad was in some other part of the state outside the City. Do we get reimbursed by the Feds anything?

Mr. Eddis

No, sir. As a matter of fact, one of the parts that's frustrating, we had the chance to meet with the 50 major cities, and we've been asking for years when the Homeland Security money is being utilized, when is it going to be used to offset some of the expenses within local government? In California, as they always are, being years ahead of us, they have been 16 doing that for the last year and a half, they 17 offset their expenses for law enforcement 18 through revenue generated through Homeland 19 Security dollars. 20

Councilman Mariano

I'm sure the ex-governor, that would be Ridge, who's the head of Homeland Security -- in fact, he's in town this week or next week to talk about just that. My only thing is -- and I know 199 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET you're not responsible for this -- if we give everybody on 95 with Jersey tags driving over 60 miles an hour a ticket, we could solve all the budget crises in this whole City. Because if you drive up 95 -- and I know you're not responsible, but I had to throw that out there -- everybody is speeding. I'm doing 60. They're doing 80 and nobody has Pennsylvania tags.

Mr. Eddis

There's a lot of ways. Kiddingly, we can lower the amount of players on the ball team from to 24 and use the 14 price for a utility player and put our horses 15 back there. 16

Councilman Mariano

Exactly. Thank 17 you. 18

Council President Verna

Thank you. 19 The Chair recognizes Councilman 20 Nutter. 21

Councilman Rizzo

Madam Chair, can 22 I add to that, please? 23 One of the issues that I think we 24 should discuss is, we train police officers in 25 our academy, I believe, for many 200 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET municipalities around this region, and I'm not sure we're being compensated appropriately for that.

Council President Verna

We're supposed to be reimbursed.

Councilman Rizzo

Reimbursed, but not to the point of, from what understand, a proper reimbursement. I think that some of these things that Mr. Eddis discussed, that I discussed, that they should be listening and really making sure that we're being properly compensated for that training that we provide. I don't know if it's been updated recently, Mr. President. I don't know that.

Mr. Eddis

Councilman, to respond to that, we see as a result of Homeland Security a great drain being placed on the National FBI Academy to provide training. We have said, wouldn't it be nice if we could be able to handle the top part of the country to utilize our training facility to provide this so our instructors are already trained in that area? When I look at the budget and I see 201 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET how much money the department generates from outside training, I think that's a part of where we're missing the boat because we have a highly trained Police Department that have the capability of doing the same thing, that people ride past us going down 95 right down to the FBI Academy, that they should stop into Philadelphia. We could be able to do it. We see other towns doing that and we're wondering why we're missing that. Where are we looking for funding mechanisms to help ourselves?

Councilman Rizzo

We are the envy because most of the units, the K-9 Unit -- and I hope that survives -- but most of the dogs that were trained throughout this region were trained and retrained at the Philadelphia Police Academy's K-9 Unit. So, you're right. That facility is known for it's quality training, firearms, you name it, involving law enforcement. We could be making some money for the training.

Mr. Eddis

And offset the budget. We go to other municipalities and we see -- we have a major piece of land up there and you 202 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET can't even simulate weather conditions, but you could put a small building so the officers could shoot range, snow, the whole bit, and then use that facility as training to be able to draw additional revenue into our municipality.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Councilman Nutter, did you want to be recognized?

Councilman Nutter

It's just a very quick kind of thing. Mr. Eddis, I just really wanted to say to you and to the other members of your team that are with you, I greatly appreciate your coming into our Council budget hearings, not only to talk about issues that may be directly pertinent to the Police Department and the members that you represent in the FOP. What I really appreciate, quite honestly, is that you also talked about some of the other elements of the budget, that 203 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET while they may not be directly related to police -- your comments particularly about recreation centers and other facilities, I just think is a testament to how you have provided the kind of leadership that you do. And it's not just in your present capacity as president. You've been doing many of these things even before. And under the most recent previous president, Mr. Costello, I think it is very helpful to get a perspective from a leader in the Police Department or in the police union on some of the other issues that effect the citizens of this City. I just really wanted to recognize the breadth of your concern in that matter in that we have an opportunity to hear from you under these circumstances, not just from a police focus, but also as a citizen. And you raised by example, a personal matter with regard your daughter possibly coming back.

Mr. Eddis

I'm not giving up. I'm still trying to get her back. I've got three girls and a boy and I'm bringing them home.

Councilman Nutter

And I know you 204 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET don't give up without a fight. I actually feel sorry for her. But I just really wanted to say thank you for that and I've enjoyed our working relationship over the years.

Mr. Eddis

Thank you. I appreciate it. And we appreciate the help that we receive in City Council and we're looking forward to many years of working together.

Council President Verna

Thank you for all of your fine work. Thank you so much for coming in to testimony. Councilman Ramos.

Councilman Ramos

Thank you, Madam President. Mr. President, I appreciate you and the members of your team coming here before us this afternoon. I've told you before that I will not let our police union stand alone. I want that to be on the record. Have you been following the great tax debate in this Chamber? Has the FOP had any thoughts or any position on how this impacts on you in one way or the other?

Mr. Eddis

Our greatest fear is, as 205 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET a result of this time right now, that if there is a decrease, that we will not be able to provide the citizens the necessary protection that they need out there as a result of what possibly could lead into cut-backs. We feel strongly that we want our City to grow. In order for it to grow, people have to know that it's a safe place. We know that most of our City is extremely safe, and we believe that the job and we believe that community policing concept, which for many years was opposed, which has really taken place now in recent years, is the way to go. Because without the police and the community working as one, we're never going to achieve our goals. Our fear is, as a result of making decisions, we're not going to see the effect until afterwards. That to us is the frustrating part. Because afterwards we're going to say, what could we have done? Why could we have stopped that? We're saying now, before we get to that point, before we have one more victim in this City, that we have to 206 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET see, that we have to carry -- people think, well, you do it every day. You get used to it. You never get used to it. You never get used to carrying the children in this City. We know you have a great responsibility to balance this budget, we know the significance of that, but at what price? Are we willing to compromise our quality of life in order to make sure we balance a budget? It's a hard question. I don't believe we should.

Councilman Ramos

We're in the middle of the great tax debate in this town. I don't know anyone that's for more taxes. Everyone wants to lower taxes. I'm one of them. All Philadelphians feel the same way. Are you saying that if we pass all these tax bills, that this will have a negative impact on your members?

Mr. Eddis

I have had the chance to actually read all of the proposals, and I believe there are some very good proposals. I just believe that timing is the key to life, and right now the key to life in our City is 207 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET the quality of life. I believe at this time, until we're able to get everything straight, making these moves at this time is going to be harmful to community.

Councilman Ramos

Thank you, Mr. President. Keep up the good work.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Again, we applaud you for all your fine work. And your testimony was great. Thank you so much.

Mr. Mcpherson

The next witness is John Gallery from the Preservation Alliance. He had to leave, but he left his testimony.

Council President Verna

Which will be circulated to all Councilmembers and to the stenographer.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Good afternoon. Welcome. Thank you both. Identify yourselves for the record and begin your testimony.

Ms. Roach

My name is Laura Roach.

Ms. Williams

Naydira Williams.

Ms. Roach

Good afternoon, Members of City Council. The Coalition to Reduce 208 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Health, Education and Economic Disparities, CREED, is a collaboration of African-American social service organizations that formed to address the circumstances that contribute to the disproportionate funding to organizations indigenous to the African-American community. The goal of CREED is to assure that a fair and equitable distribution of City government contracts and resources are awarded to African-American-owned and operated social service organizations. 6 billion in social service contracts from community behavioral health, health and welfare departments and the School District of Philadelphia. 6 billion awarded. The African-American organizations that make up the membership of CREED are indigenous to the distress of African-American communities that are in need of these critical services. We are often the 209 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET providers of last resort for communities that have been ravaged by blight, crime, violence and poor physical, mental and financial health. We serve a constituency whose demographics are African-American, low to moderate income, uninsured and underinsured, unemployed and underemployed, with numerous indicators of poor health. Our service areas present the prevalence of HIV infection, asthma, diabetes, substance abuse, infant mortality and other chronic and life -threatening illnesses. Our neighborhoods are also home to high rates of homicide and community and domestic violence and our children are disproportionately represented in the child welfare system. However, a substantial portion of the dollars allocated to address these ills are awarded to agencies with little or no ties to the community. Further, these agencies and institutions do not invest in the community. They do not live in the community, buy goods 210 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET and services from the local community, hire professionals and executives from the community. , accountants, lawyers, consultants, vendors, et cetera. The purchasing of these goods and services further strengthen the economy of the local community and creates jobs and stabilizes the environment economically. A more economically stable environment creates jobs, better housing, health benefits, recreational facilities and stabilizes the individual and family. Every day in the headlines of the local press, we read that another life is taken senselessly and we wring our hands in distress, wondering what to do. Young men and women who have lost all hope of finding living wage jobs drop out and participate in the underground economy of drugs and crime, ending 211 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET up addicted and strung out, dead or in jail, thus leaving grandparents to raise little ones instead of enjoying retirement. , pay day loans. When rebuilding and other economic stimulus projects are brought into our neighborhoods, unemployed men and women stand by and watch while workers from the suburbs and other middle class neighborhoods get most of the work. When the City of Philadelphia awards social service contracts to address the social ills of the community, agencies operated by African-Americans that are indigenous to the community are often edged out. They are denied the opportunity to strengthen programs and revenue base by the actions of some permanent government employees who have formed relationships with preferred 212 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET service providers not indigenous to the community. Most of the preferred providers, agencies selected by these permanent government workers don't have necessary cultural sensitivity needed to address the problems of our community. This is evidenced by the continued decline of our neighborhood, in spite of the millions of dollars allocated yearly to address these problems.

Ms. Roach

These agencies view our community as business opportunities to strengthen their organization's bottom line, and thus enrich their communities at the expense of the people they claim to serve. This must stop. We cannot in good conscience allow this to continue to happen without a fight. We are asking Members of City Council to stand up and speak out against these inequities by taking these agencies to task for these longstanding practices that rob our community of the resources needed to rebuild, not only the infrastructure, but the self-esteem of our residents as well. 213 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Ms. William

My name is Naydira Williams. Today I'm here to speak about the North Philadelphia Human Services Development Corporation, and the comprehensive family support coordination program that we offer in North Philly. Let me give you a little background about us first, please. In North Philly, specific census tracts were eliminated during the planning stages of the Empowerment and Enterprise Community Process. As a result, community leaders, business and other stakeholders from the North Central Philadelphia community jointly created a strategic plan for the development and implementation of a human service development corporation to serve the needs of the general and subcultural population in North Philadelphia. Unlike community development corporations which address the physical and economic needs of struggling communities, a human service development corporation will provide an intricate network of human services 214 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET to assist in the stabilization of individuals and families. The goal is to not plan for families in North Philly, but to plan with their involvement and participation. The focus is to empower individuals who will empower their families, which in turn will empower their communities. Self-sufficiency creates a process by which individuals and families become independent entities. The North Philadelphia Human Services Development Corporation was created because of the need to implement a community-based conduit that assures all services and programs geared to what individuals and families will be coordinated. NPHSDC has approached existing agencies and organizations with the purpose of developing partnerships and collaborations that will allow families in North Philly and the surrounding communities to maximize the use of services and programs. In North Philadelphia, 65 percent of the households live below the poverty level. 215 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET 70 percent of the households are single female parent households. 63 percent of the most economically devastated are persons years 5 and under. 75 percent of the households have 6 become welfare dependent, creating a cycle 7 dependency, poverty and apathy. There are a 8 growing number of grandparents and family 9 members who have become caretakers because of 10 the rise and incidence and prevalence of 11 substance use, abuse and addiction. An 12 overwhelming percentage of these individuals 13 have few job skills, lack adequate day care 14 and depend upon multiple health, human and 15 social service agencies who make conflicting 16 demands upon families. As a result, 17 neighborhoods have deteriorated. Strong 18 community standards and family values are not available to provide the needed support systems for those who need help. Family energy is sometimes consumed with the task of dealing with multiple control agencies and their often demanding requirements. In addition, the communities have uncoordinated and loosely integrated human 216 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET service programs that are overlapped and compete for spare resources. Plans for individuals, families and community self-sufficiency are essential in light of the restructuring of North Philadelphia, and the pending termination of families receiving TANF, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families. The need for community-based support services in North Philadelphia and surrounding communities are evident. The neighborhoods within North Philadelphia and surrounding communities share a common bond of concentrated and persistent economic disadvantages and declining family investments. The lack of opportunity and investment in these neighborhoods increase family isolation and undermines the family's competence and confidence. The recent crack cocaine epidemic in North Philadelphia has compounded devastation and issues for families in their neighborhoods.

Ms. William

As a result, 51,159 grandparents and family members have become caretakers because of the rise in incidence 217 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET and prevalence of substance abuse, abuse and addiction. The number of women incarcerated has tripled over the past five years. Based on the Bureau of Justice and the Department of Correction's statistics, six out of women 8 incarcerated were arrested because of their 9 behavior created due to substance abuse 10 issues. 52 percent are assessed as needing intensive drug and alcohol treatment and were active users at the time of incarceration. Six in 10 women have experienced physical, emotional and/or sexual abuse in the past. Over 230,000 children in Philadelphia reside with family members. 30 percent of all women incarcerated return to prison within two to three years. 5 percent violate parole. 19 percent are all charges with robbery, theft 20 and assault. 70 percent of all women incarcerated have children 18 years and under. When released, these women will not find affordable housing opportunities waiting. The process of family re-unification then becomes impossible because they are now being punished 218 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET a second time. Yet, the Department of Human Services demand that they get housing before their children are returned. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. These conditions also strain connections to relationships and resources families require to become stable and self-sufficient. As a result, negative and self-destructive mind-sets are the outcome. As a result, their self-worth and self-development are diminished, so they seek methods to fill voids of growth and development. Families with generations of drug and alcohol abuse, neglect, family and domestic violence dependencies and health issues not only display self-destructive behavior, but become parasites. They feed, produce and infect the community. As a result, we all become affected when destruction ends with devastation. These families live as individuals and not as a unit, especially families affected with generations of drug and alcohol and/or family 219 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET abuse. In most cases these families facilitate, enable and become co-dependent. Based on 2000 statistics, these are families affected with teen pregnancies, neglect, sexual and domestic violence, abuse, delinquency, criminal behavior, poor health and destructive behaviors. This includes a mental and physical challenge for those who depend on these individuals for caregiving. There are too many lack of resources in these families. As a result, the quest for personal, family and community responsibility has no meaning or understanding. The North Philadelphia Human Services Development Corporation focuses to strengthen families, to define strengthening as a deliberate, sustained effort to connect isolated families to the resources, opportunities and the support systems they need that all family members are healthy and successful. This is being accomplished by using a multi-disciplinary team approach in an appropriate, high quality, cost effective community-based method that provides access to 220 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET health and human services while promoting education, training and support to families, children and individuals. We serve children and families with mental health, health, housing, job training, education and employment needs. We know that all the families referred to us come from dysfunctional and economically disadvantaged backgrounds. We believe that these families can succeed and tough neighborhoods can be transformed into supporting and enabling environment. This can happen if people who live, work and hold positions of influence in their communities make the neighborhoods and the families within them a priority by increasing investments and activities that promote family strength.

Ms. William

Yet, community-based organizations like NPHSDC must make due with spare funding opportunities to reach families who require the most services and programs because they are a subculture in our community. We live these issues every day and have invested interest in removing, 221 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET eliminating and/or reducing the blight and pain felt and lived by our neighborhoods. And we wonder why recidivism in African-American communities is prevalent. We know that the so-called poverty pimps rely on our disparities to maintain their purpose. We are told that these programs or services are available, yet it is not the community-based, grass roots organizations that do the actual work, that get the proper funding that get between the two are disproportionately unfair. We take note that these disparities are across the board. It appears there are enemies that believe African-American communities cannot resolve its own issues. We are still being defined by outside forces who truly believe they knew what's best for us. We state today, enough is enough. Community residents in need of services and programs will not go into Center City, Northeast, South Philadelphia or Kensington. Why should our families have to travel across the City to services and programs that are culturally insensitive to 222 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET their needs, especially when those services are in their communities, but is not given capacity building opportunities because we scramble for minimum funding? NPHSDC has partnered today with a lot of organizations, and I'm not going to read all of that. We urge City Council to investigate the funding stream and who they are actually benefiting. We ask that you meet with us to hear our strategic plan, to resolve the issues that our families face every day. We recommend that you ask questions as to why only certain organizations are looked upon as the wherewithal, while the blight, pain and recidivism is maintained under the pretense of, our communities are receiving services. How many more children will we have to lose to violence, mothers and fathers to crack cocaine, incarceration, individuals through AIDS and HIV infections and families through homelessness before enough is enough? We say today enough is enough. We look forward to our concerns being made a priority and our findings -- and your findings -- of 223 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET what we know to be fact. May God bless, for today is a new beginning for community-based grass roots organizations. And I thank you. )

Ms. Simpkins

To the honorable Members of City Council, ladies and gentlemen, I say good afternoon. I am Argyle Simpkins, President and CEO of Abo Haven, Inc. First let me say that I appreciate the opportunity to present some important information to this esteemed Body. However, let me state in advance that what I have to share is disturbing. Why do I say this? , which I founded, have not received proper professional treatment from the Transitional Workforce Division of the Philadelphia Workforce Development Corporation. For the record, I have been involved in training the underemployed, unemployed, and other socially-challenged populations for almost three decades. My former employee was 224 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET honored by organizations from the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce to Harvard University, based on the programs I wrote and the work performed by me and my staff. On June 26th of 2003, the executive director of my former employer called me to say we were shutting down and asked if I wanted to continue the organization. Of course I said I did. And that's when I was told, okay. But you've got 48 hours to put the deal together. Well, I did. And we moved on with our mission. full-time jobs were 14 saved and hundreds of young women coming off 15 of welfare have and continue to benefit from 16 the fact that we didn't close and abandon them in their efforts to get the valuable services we provide. Now our ability to provide services to the populations I mentioned is jeopardized by a new contracting process that the Transitional Workforce Division at PWDC is trying for the first time. Let me state that this isn't the first time that this operating unit of PWDC has changed their policies to the 225 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET detriment of our clients and the dedicated staff who works with them. Instead of going into all the details during this presentation, I am providing copies of information which chronicles the problems caused by the Transitional Workforce Division of PWDC for many who are economically disadvantaged and poor people trying to improve their lives. Most of my clients are African-American single mothers coming off of welfare. My staff and I have developed excellent techniques for training them for the workforce so they can make a better life for their children. Our record is well established, being amongst the top training providers in the City of Philadelphia. Recently, a new Request for Qualifications, or RFQ as it is called, was sent to us and other providers for work which Abo Haven, Inc. Is already doing. " For how many years have African-Americans organizations been excluded from participating in this economy by being told you're not qualified? Bear in mind that the position of PWDC is that our response disqualified us. Well, in the past when the executive director was not an African-American, if something was not quite right with their contract proposal, someone at PWDC picked up the phone and called us for clarifications. Such actions are common courtesy for proven providers. Now that I run the organization, no such consideration was given. Institutional racism? Perhaps. Unfair? Absolutely. Well, I've taken my time this afternoon, and let me leave you with this request. , and this RFQ process. Review the information that I provided you in the package this afternoon and then tell me we can't do the work which they paid millions for 227 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET from majority firms and don't get half the quality and the results as we do at Abo Haven. Many of my staff came from the same conditions of our clients. That's why we understand their needs and can teach them how to succeed in a formal economy. And I also want to add finally, let me offer a shameless plug for the new Abo Haven, Inc. Center for non-traditional, early learning and child care that's going to be located at 1010 Spring Garden, right next door to the Spaghetti Warehouse. We have 9,200 square feet.

Ms. Simpkins

We look forward to opening this addition to our organization in the fall of this year. You can look to see me as I wish to introduce our model to increasing the capacity for quality, affordable child care here in Philadelphia. Thank you. )

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very much. We certainly want to thank you for your commitment to our community. Certainly, in the Million Women's March. Ms. Naydira Williams, certainly Ms. 228 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Roach, all that you've done. I guess we have known each other maybe 30 years or close to it. Certainly we trust you. We share your commitment and we thank you for being here. Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you, Councilwoman. I too would like to say good afternoon to the three ladies at the table. I know them all very well and have work with them. And certainly Argyle Simpkins, I received my first computer training from you and some of your staff members. I'm intimately familiar with the program. I agree with your comments about the organization and who was in charge, when and how things were done and what is done now. I agree with that. I certainly will use my office to look into that because the Transitional Workforce Program is sort of like an aside from the City Council here. We'll check into that. Naydira, certainly you have worked 229 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET in the vineyards for so many years, fighting for you community. These ladies stand to support the community when others have gone. And they know what is going on and is transpiring in the community with families and have tried to provide services to those families. I have to support them in their statement. I said when the Health Commissioner was in here, and we said it to the Department of Human Services, that the larger corporations get the majority contracts and they have to fight for crumbs, and then they don't get the support that they need to work in the community, and it's not fair. I have taken this message to the Mayor. I have talked to my colleagues on Council about it. Because it has to stop. These people who know and understand the communities -- and you look around at all the community organizations, Councilwoman Blackwell, that used to be in the community working with families. They're gone. That's because they haven't gotten the support and 230 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET the funding that they needed, and the money is going outside of the community. It is a systemic problem. There are people in these departments who set these proposals up for their friends, and those friends get those contracts and the people in the community cannot access them. I have a question I'd like to ask each of you. When we were talking to the Health Commissioner and he had to admit that there's not enough diversity in terms of how the contracts are given out, you, Laura and I had been working on that. Are you familiar with the Philadelphia Health Management Corporation?

Councilwoman Tasco

Have you had any dealings with them? Have you ever sought funding from them, and what was the response?

Ms. Roach

We've applied for funding from the Health Department. And the Health Department contracts with PHMC to handle certain aspects of their procurement process with some contracts. 231 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET One of the concerns that we also have is that PHMC acts in their capacity, but then they also compete against community groups for contracts and they get the funding. There's a clear conflict there. How can you be part of the procurement process and then also compete against people in the community? This is happening all the time. We service 100 percent of the African-American community. An example of huge disparities is with HIV and AIDS. 68 percent of people living with HIV today are African-American. I see more than 200 people a month with HIV and AIDS in my center and I don't get any funding from the Health Department. I can't understand why, if I'm providing services to people that are affected by this disease, and most of the funding is for people affected by this disease, why are not dollars coming in to community-based organizations? I hear constituents saying all the time, they don't want to go downtown. They're tired of being told to go downtown for services. It's not fair to the constituents 232 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET to have to go outside of where they live at to get services when there are providers in the community that are capable of providing those services that are not receiving funding. They tell us that we don't have the capacity to do the work. But we have the capacity because they come to us and they use our data. They come in and interview our clients. They conduct surveys and they do all the things that they need to to bring money into the City. But then when the money comes into the City, they develop proposals to keep us out. They are systemically keeping us out of the system. There are barriers that are put up deliberately to keep black organizations from receiving funding. And we're saying that enough is enough. They're making all kinds of excuses, but the bottom line is that we don't receive the funding that we should receive to provide these services.

Councilwoman Tasco

Also, the Commissioner stated that PHMC provides technical assistance to community organizations. Have you ever received -- . 233 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Ms. Roach

No. I never received technical assistance from anybody. And I know that the City receives capacity building dollars. We have never received any capacity building assistance from the City. I don't know where it goes, but it doesn't come to people like us.

Ms. Williams

I think that we need to look at how these lists are developed of community-based organizations. Who is responsible for developing that list? Because they have a way of prioritizing who gets what. One of my greatest concerns right now in North Philly is mental health issues. We have no way of getting assistance to families who are suffering from mental health issues. Some of the folks who come home are duly diagnosed. PHMC is also working with those dollars. So PHMC has built themselves a conglomerate basically. So again, as Laura says, when those RFPs come out, they write the RFP to meet the needs of the person they want to give the proposal to, and that's how it's done. So 234 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET when organizations who are actually working with these issues need funding to get to -- and we're not wherewithal either. We're willing to work with professionals to make sure that families get professional service. I don't want to get that mixed up, because we're not clinicians. We're not therapists and we're not psychologists. But when folks come into office and they're in need of those services, if they're not in that community, people will not go. They will not go to South Philly for a therapeutic program. We just did a partnership with Jefferson's outpatient because they have a forensic process. Our folks will not go to South Philly to that program. We're trying to work with Jefferson to bring the same program, a satellite program, into North Philly because our people are comfortable home with the people that they know. My staff right now is traveling all over the City to get people to services. But we can't get children who are walking around with TSS workers, who speak another language. 235 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET These children don't understand. All those issues are straining these families to the point that they're not functioning. And when you have an organization like PHMC, who has its hands in everything, and they're determining who gets what. Folks like us, if you say no or I'm not going in that direction or it doesn't fit in my community, then you are totally taken out of the loop. So you've got to almost -- excuse my expression -- kiss butt. But some of those don't believe in that, so we will make do without. But I'm just saying when you have organizations like PHMC who has a connection to mental health, who has a connection to Healthy Start, who has connections to all of that, they are looked at as a health conglomerate. The folks who are doing the work never get the opportunity to.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Councilwoman. Councilman Clarke. 236 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would just like to echo the comments of my colleagues, Councilwoman Blackwell and Councilwoman Tasco, and commend you for the wonderful work that you've done, particularly the work that you've done in North Philadelphia. Frankly speaking, without your agencies, I would have no place to send some of my constituents who have issues that we in the City government cannot provide proper assistance. When there looks like there's a situation where there is no answer, you all provide an answer. You all provide a service, sometimes uncompensated, but always under-compensated. So I want to thank you. I agree with Councilwoman Tasco with respect to the dolling out of resources, that it has been done in an inequitable way, and I will be there to support you and support my colleagues on this very, very crucial issue. Thank you for coming out and testifying.

Ms. Roach

Thank you. We 237 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET appreciate that.

Councilman Clarke

I'll talk to you guys later on tonight.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very much. Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to underscore the comments and remarks and support shared with you by Councilwoman Tasco, who chairs the Committee on Health and Human Services, and Councilman Clarke. I am keenly aware of the inequity and the humongous hurdles faced by Argyle Simpkins' organization. I've become keenly aware of what is happening in the Health Department. Councilwoman Tasco did invite a number of us into a meeting to discuss this in a way where we have their attention one-on-one. I was not able to go to that meeting, but I did pay attention to a letter that she forwarded to the Mayor, so that we 238 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET put this on a radar screen in a huge way. You should be encouraged. We do have work to do. But it takes exchanges like this and you all just pulling our coattail repeatedly and consistently to remind us that it's not right. So let me thank you for bringing it to my attention, because I was unaware of this until Ms. Roach pulled my coattail a few weeks. And then in talking with Councilwoman Tasco, learned that you are right. It is systemic and it needs to stop. Because you're in trenches, you're on the front line and your acknowledgment that professionals need to be a part of the mix is important, but the bottom line remains the first stop, if you will, is at the doors of the agencies that you represent. So I have already had my conversations both on and off the record with the leadership and the board chairmanship at PWDC and simply working with Councilwoman Tasco. She takes the leadership on the other issue in the Health Department. Thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you. 239 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

We would be remiss not to acknowledge the other agencies. Did you acknowledge them?

Councilwoman Blackwell

Yes. Thank you very much. I did not know all of you were together. We certainly welcome you and thank you for your patience and we're glad to see all of you this afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record and begin.

Ms. Bundy

Hello, everybody. My name is Louise Bundy, and I'm one of the co-founders of North Philadelphia Human Services Development Corporation. I am also chair for Sister for Street, and I'm also the 47th Ward chairperson and a few other things. I'm on different boards.

Mr. Hall

My name is Gary Hall. God Bless.

Ms. Sims

My name is Regina Sims.

Ms. Bundy

I'm here today because we have got to be able to get some help. I'm 240 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET so happy to hear the things that ya'll said. Most of the things I was going to say have already been said. I mean, the answers has been here. You all spoken. Naydira and them, they said what they had to say. All that stuff I was going to say. I'm also here to say that they have been wonderful -- I notice in the North Philadelphia Human Services part anyhow, all the different work that they have done. They have done so much to help people. I'm talking about from all over the City. People come in there from different parts of the City and they don't mind helping them. They have a lot of patience, a lot understanding with the people. The people like them a lot. They like them. They put up with a lot of crap. I was sitting there a few times and listening to how people come and they say things. And do you know what they do? They listen to them and then they'll -- they may go out of the room for a minute, and then they come right back and they deal with them the same way they would with me or you. That's a 241 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET lot to take. Like they said, a lot of people come in that don't have nothing to eat. These people don't have nowhere to stay. This is heartwarming for people who don't have a place that they can call home. They help a lot of those people. They help people that come in that have a place to stay, but they don't really have a place to stay. Seniors come in there. They don't have the proper food, the proper clothing. They have people that are families who come in with babies. They don't know what to do about their babies. There's all kinds of things going on. To be the front runner like they are is kind of hard. I may be one of the co-founders, but they're doing the heavy work. I do what I can, any time and any place. But I'm constantly praying because I know that God is the only one who can really handle a lot of these problems. We do it with love and compassion. But there's so much going on out here that people need to wake up and realize that it has nothing to do with how many people 242 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET you're involved with or how powerful you are, but that you have got to help other people. Just because they don't have nothing doesn't mean they shouldn't be helped. It's just not right. Okay? That's how I feel about it. I wanted to say something also. You can go from A to Z and you will find something being done at this organization in North Philadelphia Human Services -- I do know -- to help people, from babies, children, to seniors and more. The staff is very patient, courteous and pleasant to be around. I don't like writing things down. I think that each of you can say with honesty that your children or seniors need the proper funding at your centers or other facilities that help these people, so that they can continue their work and continue giving support to these individuals who need it so much. Each president that was up here, CEO, each one put up with a lot. I also want to congratulate Council because I know that you all have to put up with a lot when you 243 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET have to hear what we have to say and have to put in perspective where it's supposed to go. The compassion part means a lot, also. God bless all of you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Ms. Bundy.

Mr. Hall

Good afternoon, Councilwoman Blackwell. My name is Gary Hall, and I am the founder and executive director of CAACY, Community Advocates Association for Children and Youth. I'm only here to give you a thumbnail view of information. There's a packet that has the Philadelphia Inquirer on it, which basically gives you information about CAACY. And the Philadelphia Inquirer has basically documented the years of services that we have provided 19 to children, youth and families. That's the 20 first document. 21 The next document is the 22 Philadelphia Weekly, which has also documented 23 the services CAACY has provided in 24 Philadelphia. 25 I also have a letter from Governor 244 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Rendell that has also recognized CAACY's work in the community. We've also been recognized by the District Attorney's Office for the work that has been done in saving a child's life who had been sexually molested for years by 7 a step-parent who was also a police officer. 8 But there's a letter that also commends us for 9 the work that has been done on the protection 10 of a child who has been sexually abused by a step-parent. I should mention that our funding comes from the Philadelphia Department of Human Services, as well as State Representative Frank Oliver. If it was not for State Representative Frank Oliver for the past four years, probably our doors would have been closed. My concern is that we're in an environment that requires evidence and outcomes, and CAACY basically had to go through a process to prove that it had outcomes that were positive in delivering service. Being a small, non-profit organization, we were not aware of the process 245 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET that was involved in becoming evidenced-based and producing outcomes that would produce funds or dollars for providing services to children and youth in the community. The Department of Human Services has received over $600 million dollars in funds. In this year that passed they received $667 million, and next fiscal year they're going to receive over $700 million. And this agency that is years old has received $500,000 in 12 cuts and funds because of the change in the 13 arrangement of funding. It is unfair. It is 14 very unfair for an agency that has been in the 15 community for 25 years to receive a 50 percent 16 cut in funding when our outcomes are 17 impeccable. 18 In a report that you have in your 19 packet called "Safety and Permanency," which 20 is done by the American Humane Society and the 21 Philadelphia Outcome Report, it shows that 22 CAACY indeed has favorable outcomes to provide 23 services to children, youth and families in 24 their home. CAACY indeed can prove that 83 25 percent of its clients come to them after a 246 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET year do not go in placement. 90 percent of the clients that come to them after a year do not have an indicated report of abuse or neglect. I also should mention that 70 percent of the clients that we receive do not have a placement, do not have an indicated report or a new SCO service after a year. So the agency's track record and the agency's outcomes over the years have shown 11 that we are able to provide services to our 12 community. But for some reason, our cry is 13 like a cry in the darkness and we don't 14 receive the funding. So I just came in here 15 today to give you evidence that here is an 16 agency that has 25 years of services, has 17 provided services to the community. It's an 18 African-American agency. It has received 19 $500,000 in cuts. We're in triage mode, and 20 the Department of Human Services has received 21 nothing but increases in funding from the 22 state in terms of BLOC grants. 23 I should also mention that when I 24 looked at the information in terms of dollars 25 DHS funding receives, in terms of the dollar 247 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET figure, 90 percent comes from Title 20, Title 4E, Title 4B, Title 148.

Mr. Hall

The other percent 4 comes from the county. So when you look at 5 it, there's 90 percent from state and federal 6 dollars, and 10 percent comes from the county. 7 So there's enough money to help out 8 African-American agencies. 9 I just want to say that we really 10 need the Council to really take a look at the equity in the distribution of funds. DHS in their plan, in their implementation and budget plan, has shown that they were trying to change SCO services to children in their own home, and they were implementing new programs because they didn't think that SCO worked. But the report that you have in front of you will show you that the American Humane Society and the Philadelphia Outcomes Report show that SCO does work. There's an old saying -- and I know the bell rang -- that if there's no truth, there's no relationship. It's about time when we start talking about dealing with black folk and black people in the community, we need to 248 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET have a little bit more truth so we can have a stronger relationship in strengthening the families, and hopefully we can cut down on the deaths in the community. Thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you.

Ms. Sims

Good afternoon. My name is Regina Sims, and I'm a parent of a handicapped child. I'm here to talk about how the City and the departments are changing our statuses. Warren E. Smith. Warren E. Smith is a family thing. It's an oriented family thing. The way they're changing everything around, talking about this entity and putting us anywhere, throwing people here, throwing people there, handicapped here, handicapped there, that's not right at all. That is not right. They should not bother with Warren E. Smith, but just give Warren E. Smith extra money to help us to continue to be in the family organization that we are together. I don't approve of how everyone is trying to break up Warren E. Smith and take Warren E. Smith down the gutter because they 249 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET don't think it's working. It works. It works for me. It works for everybody that's in that program. Warren E. Smith is a family-oriented thing. They want to bring in this entity thing. What is an entity? I do not understand and neither do the other parents that are coming in. Warren E. Smith handles over 2,500 families. And after they get rid of the little bit of money that the City and the Congress and the state want to give Warren E. Smith, they're trying to take Warren E. Smith and shove them under the rug. And not only shove them under the rug, they want Warren E. Smith to teach somebody from Jersey, from New York or other different places. They feel like bringing other people in. They want to teach them and give them their jobs, and that's not right. Why would you take and bring somebody into something that is already working for us families, and then want to break families up and try to just ask us where 250 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET we want to go? You don't know where we want to go. We want to stay with Warren E. Smith. That's our feeling. That's the way I feel, and all of the 2,500 families that I've been in and with. Warren E. Smith is looking for Warren E. Smith. It's not fair the way this City and everybody wants to take and just cut that program completely out. Now, they're going to talk about unemployment. They're ready to get rid of the people that are working at Warren E. Smith once they teach the people they want them to teach, and get them out of here. That's not right. Cathy Sykes did not like the way I talked to her at the meeting we had at 1315 Windrim. She did not like it. She couldn't even explain what an entity was to us. She didn't even know. But yet, ya'll want to phase out Warren E. Smith and then bring in some, quote/unquote, entity. Don't nobody understand about no entity. Why would you all want to take and mess up a family organization 251 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET that's working with us in our communities, in North Philly, South Philly, West Philly, and Germantown? All over this City they work with us. We are a family group thing. And my daughter and me, we don't understand what this, quote/unquote again, entity is. Do ya'll know? No, you do not know. Does anybody in here know what an entity is? No, they don't. But they're ready to phase out Warren E. Smith, and that's not right. Why are you going to take something that's working and break it up? Once you break it up, you're going to want to bring everybody back to, quote/unquote again, Warren E. Smith. They're going to try to get us back in there under the Warren E. Smith group, and then ya'll are going say, oh, I'm sorry. The entity didn't work. That's what everybody is going to say. The entity didn't work. But now we've got to go back to Warren E. Smith. That's not fair. They should have never bothered with something that is already working for the people that have a handicapped 252 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET child. Anybody who is in here that has a handicapped child, you know what, you all throw them in a barn or in an institution and don't care.

Ms. Sims

Well, I have my daughter at home, and there's 2,400 other families that have their children at home. Warren E. Smith comes out to our homes. Our case managers are good to us. We're good to them. We work together. We're a family. Why break it up? Once you break it up, what are you going to do when ya'll can't put it back together? Oh, then we're going to call it Warren E. Smith again. And then you're going to say, the entity didn't work, so we got to take that out. But ya'll don't want to give Warren E. Smith no 18 more extra money. They don't want to help the families and help the case managers continue to help the families.

Council President Verna

Excuse me. Would you starting concluding your testimony, because your time is up?

Ms. Sims

I didn't hear the bell.

Council President Verna

It did 253 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET ring, so if you will conclude. We have a number of witnesses that still would like to testimony.

Ms. Sims

I will. In conclusion, as I was saying, the entity that everybody wants to bring into Warren E. Smith is not fair. Nobody understands. Ya'll don't understand it, but yet you want to break up the family of Warren E. Smith. That's my conclusion.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. Thank you all very much. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

The two witnesses that are here, have you been heard yet? I'm sorry. Councilwoman Brown, then Councilwoman Tasco, then Councilman Ramos. Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't want to beat a dead horse, the remarks that I made for the prior panel also applies to the testifiers there. You do 254 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET not have to answer this in this forum. I would be curious to know, however, if the support that you've received from Frank Oliver, Representative Oliver, District Attorney Lynne Abraham and others who know well of your work, if you made sure that that has resonated with the agency that's making the decisions about funding. So just think about that, because it's important that those worlds connect. Because ultimately it's DHS that is rendering the judgment, if you will, on whether or not you get funded. If others know well of the work that you're doing, particularly the cases that you've presented, they're heart-wrenching and speak well as to how valuable the service is, and that's good. But in the world we live in it matters more to make sure that those who ultimately make those funding decisions know that you have the level of support that you have, both elected officials and otherwise. Do you follow me?

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, 255 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Yes. Again, colleagues on Council, this whole situation is not only with the Health Department, but with DHS. We've looked at through the past several years how the funding stream has left the African-American community and has been diverted to other communities for services in the African-American community, and I think it's a travesty that we have these organizations -- and I worked with you when I was in Congressman Gray's office, you were working with CAACY then -- to provide services in the community and these groups are still struggling. It just doesn't make any sense. I don't know who's in charge at this point. But I certainly call on our colleagues. We have an opportunity to do something about it and we have to do something about it. To the young lady who came in here, 256 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET all of my colleagues have received letters that I have written about Warren E. Smith. Since I have been in City Council we have had to struggle with the effort to dismantle Warren E. Smith. Warren E. Smith is a community health program in the North Philadelphia catchman areas from Girard Avenue to Cheltenham, and a little bit over in the Germantown area, over to Front Street. The majority of problems are there. There are a lot of agencies that want to capture the services from Warren E. Smith and put this agency out of business. We met a few weeks ago with the Department of Health to talk about the process in which they set up to dismantle Warren E. Smith. They're going to take away the services, the ability of Warren E. Smith to deliver these services, take the employees and let the new entity hire these people to work in their community, but the administration goes to entities that were not set up, but have been organized through people in the 257 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Health Department who are their buddies so that they can get these contracts, divert the money away from Warren E. Smith, an African-American community, with employees in an African-American community, serving African-Americans. These people now have to go elsewhere to get their services. It's not right. I've talked to the Mayor. I want the providers to know that Shirley Kitchen, State Representative, would have been here today, but she's working in Harrisburg. She told me yesterday she's finally gotten the ear of her colleagues in the Senate because it also -- she has to address this at the state level because the money flows from the state. The contract that is going to these entities should be stopped -- and I've told the Mayor -- because the process by which it was done was not fair. So these people are not here because they just want to gripe. They are here because this is a serious issue. The providers have constantly talked to us about 258 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET it. I'm glad to see they have organized it. It has come to a head. Because we do have control in Council, as well as with our state legislators because we control the budget. Now, a lot of these dollars are grant dollars. That's why it's important to talk to our state elected officials because they can use their leverage at the state to halt the dollars. It's not fair what is happening. There has been an ongoing effort to dismantle this organization. As Laura said, they provide services in the community. The dollars are turned around in the community, and now the dollars will not be turned around in the community. They will be turned around someplace else not in this City. We're sitting here talking about cutting recreation centers, libraries, fire departments, police, and the dollars are flowing to the suburbs. It is not right. So I want to support it as Council -- (Applause.)

Councilwoman Tasco

-- on this 259 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET matter because it's not right. And again, I don't know who is in charge because it seems like, as David Cohen says, the inmates are running the asylum. Thank you. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Councilwoman, I have seen copies of your correspondence regarding this issue, and I think you should know that you would certainly have the support of all of your colleagues on this. Thank you very much. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos.

Councilman Ramos

I just have a point of clarification, if Mr. Hall can help me understand this. In the paperwork that you provided us in the package, you have a letter here dated February 6th, 2001 from MBEC stating that you were being certified as a minority business. But then you get a letter on January 16th of this year saying that you've been dis-certified. Just explain to me, what 260 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET are you saying by including these letters in your package?

Mr. Hall

What I'm saying is that things are being dismantled for African-American agencies. The first letter came from Mr. Roundtree. This is the procurement process. We were supposed to be identified as a minority business.

Councilman Ramos

And you were, according to this letter.

Mr. Hall

Right. So we went back to the administration because this first letter, the expiration date was February 6th, 2004. So we just wanted to renew the letter with the new administration, which was under Mr. Michael williams. And they said that we know longer can be approved. So I just wanted someone, the Council, to review that because I don't understand why I'm not considered as a minority business because I'm a non-profit entity and I just happen to be an African-American non-profit organization. So, once again it's another cut to move us out. So I just needed to bring that to your 261 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET attention. This is just evidence of what's going on with minority agencies. And then in the last paragraph, "We encourage you to include for-profit minorities." If I can't be included, how can include for-profit organizations? Do you understand what I'm saying?

Councilman Ramos

I'm hearing you.

Mr. Hall

The letter is confusing. It's just another example of what's going on with minority organizations.

Councilman Ramos

Have you addressed this with the new director of MBEC of why you have been disqualified after you were qualified in February of 2001?

Mr. Hall

I will send a letter to him and ask him that question. The answer to your question is, no, I haven't. I just got the letter.

Councilman Ramos

It was addressed on January 16th, but you got it on May 5th?

Mr. Hall

That's exactly what happened. That's exactly what happened.

Councilman Ramos

Mr. Hall, I would 262 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET like to give you a hand, if you'll permit me, to inquire about this. Because the same rules applied back on January, 6th of 2001 as they applied on January, 6th of 2004, unless there have been some changes here in MBEC statutes that I don't know about. But I'll be glad to assist you.

Mr. Hall

I would love your support.

Councilman Ramos

You got it. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

I am next because it was not a point of information. I should just put on the record, and you should be advised, that during the budget testimony of Commissioner Alba Martinez, I believe we asked a question directly, how many agencies are led by men of color? Because -- I guess you would call it unofficial information -- I've learned that is not real in our community and that is a real concern 263 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET for me when it is typically -- I don't know the numbers -- young people, young men of color who are in the system. So we were informed that that hard data information would have been gotten back to us. But it's consistent with the issues that have been raised by Councilwoman Tasco and others. It's just another part of that pie.

Mr. Hall

And do you remember when you asked Commissioner Alba Martinez that question?

Councilwoman Brown

It was during budget testimony. I cannot give you a date. But we're waiting for the hard data.

Mr. Hall

You know she's leaving, right?

Councilwoman Brown

I'm very much aware. She has deputies, however. We expect that we will get the information.

Mr. Hall

Thank you very much.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The two people sitting here, are you 264 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET scheduled to testify?

Council President Verna

What is your name?

Ms. Smith

Leona Smith.

Council President Verna

Please approach the witness table.

Council President Verna

And again your name is?

Mr. Moore

Kaseem Moore.

Council President Verna

Please identify yourself for the record. I'm going to ask you to be as brief as possible because we do have a number of people that have been waiting to testify. Thank you very much.

Ms. Smith

I understand.

Council President Verna

Kindly identify yourself for the record.

Ms. Smith

My name is Leona Smith.

Council President Verna

Please proceed.

Ms. Smith

First, I want to say good afternoon to Members of Council. I'd like for the record to reflect 265 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET that I certainly support my colleagues, Naydira, and Laura Roach, and my organization truly supports everything that they have testified today. And it's nothing new. Because discrimination has within African-American programs -- and I'm a director of my program, a training program for incarcerated women. We have been discriminated against for a long period of time. And I would like to commend Councilwoman Tasco and Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell, as well as the full entire Council, for recognizing and taking a final position to do something. And I hope something gets done about what is occurring here in the City of Philadelphia. I come here today with many concerns. As I sat here and listened this morning, I became outraged as a 40-year activist, that any time -- what have we come to that we would close recreation centers, close various programs, pools for our children? What have we come to today? 266 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET I often hear about tax breaks, tax breaks and tax breaks. We as poor people, we never benefited from those tax breaks. As a matter of fact, as a homeowner, my taxes went up instead of going down. So anytime that we cut services and programs based on the fact of comparing for Safe Streets versus children, it's a big concern. Comparing monies downtown being rebuilt, as I see all the time -- I was just out there this morning and I heard all kinds of construction going on. Yet we're going to cut programs for the future of our children. We're going to pay one or another. I work in a prison. Taxpayers and our taxpayer dollars are going to pay $35,000 a year for incarceration for one person. So you pay now or you're going to pay later. Our children, that's the only recreation our children have as a poor people. We don't have the luxury of having a pool built out in our backyard. We don't have that type of luxury. I'm just so outraged by the fact that these services for our babies are threatening to be cut. We're not going take 267 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET it lying down. Let the record reflect that we will organize in our communities -- and I'm telling you this right now because it has already begun -- to stop whatever is being done here because our children are our future, and we want to make sure that they grow up to be the best that they can be, just like anybody else. The other thing that I would like to share with you in terms -- every other category has a line item for funding. The prison that I work at is low max security. There's no line item and no category that provides any level of resources to deal with that population. They're discriminated against in the job market. They're not eligible for any subsidized housing. You have the workforce that's discriminated against because, even though they committed a very low crime, they're discriminated against the employment -- just got welfare back on. Of course we know that welfare has never been the answer. Yet there's no line item to deal specifically with that population. 268 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Now, you have a line item for homelessness, and I know because I was a homeless advocate for many, many, many years. And again, even with the homeless population, you don't have no African-American organizations that are running those agencies. They're all white that's running those agencies. Let me finish because I know I sat here all morning long and a lot of people talked longer than what I did. So at this point in time, if you allow me to conclude what I have to say, I would certainly appreciate it.

Council President Verna

Please conclude.

Ms. Smith

Thank you. I certainly will. What I'm saying to you is that this City has to look at what you're doing and change things. I agree with Councilman Nutter, that things have to be done differently today than it was done yesterday. If not, I think that we are all going to 269 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET regret what is happening here at this point in time in the City of Philadelphia. So I urge you to consider everything that I just said to you this afternoon. Think about how you're going to put some resources to provide some services for the population, and it will save the City of Philadelphia some money at the end.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Moore

Good afternoon. My name is Kaseem Moore, president and CEO of a company that specializes in reintegrating ex-offenders back into the community. What I'd like to talk about is some of the concerns that we see on a daily basis from individuals coming in, mostly adult males coming out of state correctional institutions and the problems that they face once they get on the street. There needs to be more resources available for these individuals. We sentence people to terms in 270 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET prisons, and we say that, you know, do your time, get on with your life, become a productive member of society. That's very difficult to do when you can't get basic medical care. You can't find housing, you can't find employment because of your criminal background. I think what people fail to understand is that, not only does it affect the ex-offenders himself, but it also affects their spouse. It affects their children. And those issues are not being addressed. There needs more contracts and more resources given to individuals who have an invested interest in seeing these people succeed. One of the things that we always try to strive on is that we have an invested interest in seeing these guys make it because when they don't make it, they end up in our communities. It's also just as important that we recognize these, quote/unquote, ex-offenders as individuals; individuals who have needs and who have wants. There are a lot of people who want to support their families, who want to 271 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET support their children, but unfortunately the system is not geared to give them a fair chance of doing those things. I also want to state that I know a lot of people come from the premise of -- that people are individuals that have never had a crime committed against them. I need to say that I've had a brother who was murdered. I've had another brother who was severely beaten. Neither one of those individuals were committing a crime or selling drugs at the of their injuries or of their death. But I still feel that if we're going to send people to correctional institutions, prisons, for, quote/unquote, rehabilitation, then we need to continue that process once they get out in the street. Thank you for your time.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Madam President. We certainly want to thank Leona 272 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Smith and all who have testified. We worked with her many, many times. She's helped a lot of people in need over the years, and certainly we want to say a special thank you for your commitment to people in need.

Ms. Smith

Thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you. I too want to say, nice to see you, Leona. I remember the exciting days in this Council when you were advocating for the homeless. You did a fine job.

Ms. Smith

Thank you.

Councilwoman Tasco

To the gentleman, Haseem Moore, do you receive funding for your program from the City?

Mr. Moore

No, we do not. We're in the process of waiting for a reply from our bid to the state DOC.

Councilwoman Tasco

Department of 273 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Corrections?

Mr. Moore

Department of Corrections, that's correct.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. Any other questions or comments from Members of the Committee? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Seeing none, I thank you very much. Good afternoon. I know that you've been here since early this morning. I really thank you for your patience. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Braxton

Thank you. My name is John Braxton, and I'm the co-president of the faculty and staff federation at Community College of Philadelphia. I appreciate all the Councilmembers' time. I know all of you have been waiting a long time also and hearing lots of testimony. We have several of my colleagues here in the room today, and I hope that they can just be recognized. We won't go 274 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET through their names. I'll be the only one presenting testimony in order to save time. I want to make two main points. The first is that the Community College of Philadelphia is facing an unprecedented crisis in funding. Community colleges were created 40 years ago for the purposes of providing access to higher education for all who may benefit, and that system is in more danger today than it has been at any other time due to inadequate public funding. The state legislature has, for the first time ever, decided not to fund community colleges on a per student basis. In a time of increasing enrollment at community colleges, this results in substantially less money per student. At the same time the Mayor is proposing a $750,000 cut in funding for Community College of Philadelphia. These numbers simply do not add up to successful outcomes for our students or for our communities. Someone has to pay for the shortfall. 275 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET In the short run it's the students who are being hit with unprecedented tuition and fee hikes, as well as the faculty, two-thirds of whom continue to work as unfairly paid part-time instructors. Our union represents approximately 400 full-time faculty and approximately 800 part-time faculty. I want to say more about those part-time faculty in a little bit. In the short run the students are paying the price of the shortfall in funding. In the long run we all pay the price because students who are denied access to class because of economic hardship are less productive in the workforce, less able to find well-paying jobs that build our tax base, and more likely to become a drain on City services. As the president of Philadelphia Community College said last week, President Curtis explained that the act of creating the community colleges calls for operating costs of the college to be split three ways; one-third by the City, one-third by the local 276 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET sponsor, the City that is, one-third from the state and one-third from tuition. But today the funding picture is very much out of whack with that, with the state contributing just under one-third, 31 percent, the City only about percent, and the students, for the 8 first time ever, are being asked to pay over 9 50 percent of the cost for Community college. 10 With enrollment costs increasing and 11 public funding decreasing, CCP has had to 12 institute unprecedented tuition and fee 13 increases. As President Curtis explained last 14 week, it means a CCP student will have to pay 15 at least 15 percent more in tuition and fees 16 this coming term, and because of new fees for 17 laboratory, clinic courses and certain other courses, one in five students pay 30 or 40 percent more than previously. Clearly it's a difficult time to be a student at Community College of Philadelphia. But beyond that, the problem that should be of concern of all is this: At what point in this scheme of tuition and fee increases do we begin making college 277 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET unaffordable for some of our students? At what point will some or even many students simply give up on the idea of college because of the funding decisions of legislature and local sponsors of community colleges? At what point are we as a society, as a City, giving up on the promise of access to higher education for all our citizens who may benefit?

Mr. Braxton

And so we wholeheartedly join President Curtis in urging Council to restore the $750,000 that were cut from last year's Community College of Philadelphia funding as a crucial step towards maintaining that promise. The second point that I would like to make then has to do -- the first point was to request to restore the cuts. The second point has to do with the fact that we think Community College of Philadelphia is not dealing in good faith with its faculty, and City Council has not yet heard the whole story with respect to the over-use and abuse of part-time faculty. In return for the funding it receives from the City, CCP obviously needs to 278 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET be accountable to this Body for the way it uses the funds for its educational program. As co-president of the faculty and staff union, I would like to briefly outline two areas where we believe the college administration should be a better steward of the public funds it receives in matters of concerns to the faculty. First, the college's failure to have at least 60 percent of the credit courses taught by full-time faculty. And second, the over-use and abuse of part-time faculty. First, there is a problem at the college with the administration not hiring sufficient full-time faculty to meet the full-time/part-time ratio, which is a requirement provided in the labor contract that at least 60 percent of the courses be taught by full-time faculty, of the credit courses. The college administration has not met that requirement for the past four or five semesters, and appears to have no plan in place to make up the considerable number of sessions by which it has fallen short. 279 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET Contrary to the impression left by President Curtis when he testified before Council last week, this is not merely business as usual. It is a serious and inexplicable breach of faith with the faculty and with students as well, which our union has had no 8 choice but to take to arbitration. We will deal with this through the arbitration process, but I bring it to your attention today because this problem is exacerbated by the funding crisis, and City Council does have the power to help ease the funding problem. I also bring to your attention the college's failure to abide by the 60/40 ratio because I hope that next year when Community College administrators testify before City Council, you will ask them if they have learned to abide by the 60/40 ratio provision of the collective bargaining agreement. Second and finally, contrary to what President Curtis said here this last week, there is more controversy than ever at the college about the situation of part-time 280 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET faculty. " The report was a result of a study authorized by the House, a resolution 10 introduced by State Representative James Roebuck from West Philadelphia, who also sits on the Community College Board of Directors. Among other things, the report recommends that part-time Community College instructors be paid a fair salary vis-a-vis full-time instructors based on the extent to which their relative qualifications, experience, and job responsibilities are similar to and different from those of full-time faculty members. It is not enough to assert, as President Curtis did here last week, that the more than 800 instructors at CCP are treated fairly. The fact of the matter is that they do essentially the same work, have essentially the same qualifications, a master's degree, 281 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET and in accordance with their years of experience, should be paid essentially the same wages per course as their full-time counterparts. President Curtis did not mention that part-time faculty are not paid to hold office hours. What does this say about our commitment to students or our sense of fairness to instructors who hold office hours without compensation?

Mr. Braxton

Remember, we are talking about 40 percent of the credit courses being taught by part-time faculty affecting nearly all of our 30,500 credit students. These part-time faculty sometime teach at two or three area colleges, where they make a total in a year of $24,000 by teaching the same number of courses that their full-time colleagues teach at one institution, who on the average make twice that salary. Meanwhile, the average CCP graduate with a two-year associate's degree earns a $35,000 salary. Is this any way to run a college?

Council President Verna

Please conclude, if you will. 282 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Braxton

I just have a little bit more to conclude. President Curtis neglected to refer to the re-opener provision in our collective bargaining agreement which enables the salaries of part-time faculty to be increased, should either the state legislature or the City appropriate new funds specifically for the purpose of improving part-time salaries. President Curtis left the false impression that because we have two more years before our contract expires, Council cannot do anything to change part-time pay rates. I repeat, that's false. I'd be happy to show Councilmembers the contract provision that specifically provides for new negotiations and arbitration if additional money is appropriated for improving part-time pay. In conclusion, the tuition and fee crisis confronting our students is the new face of the problem at Community College underfunding. The old face, a problem long in the making, is the unfair and inadequate pay received by part-time faculty. We therefore 283 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET ask Council to a address both these problems in the 2004/2005 budget. First by restoring the $750,000 for the college's operating costs. And second, by a appropriating $800,000, in addition to begin to improve the inadequate pay received by part-time faculty. The Pennsylvania Task Force on Part-time Faculty in its recommendations, recommended that the state provide a $4 million fund to increase funding to community colleges to begin to correct the pay inequities for part-time faculty. We ask that the City of Philadelphia also pay its fair share by appropriating $800,000 for pay equity for part-time faculty. Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Good afternoon. You answered one of my questions about the part-timers and the issue of renegotiating the contract if you get additional dollars. What is the board's position on the 284 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET staffing ratio? You talked about the requirement that you should have 60 percent full-time and 40 percent part-time. What is the board doing about that?

Mr. Braxton

I'm not sure if the board itself is doing anything. The administration, I think, has been in contact with the board and has told them that they are out of compliance. The administration's position is what I can speak of, because they've told us about that. And they have said that they intend to come back into compliance, that they intend to make up the number of sessions that they fell short of over the past two years, but they don't make any commitment as to when that will be.

Councilwoman Tasco

What is the board's role in all of this?

Mr. Braxton

Well, I think the board's role should be to enforce the collective bargaining agreement.

Councilwoman Tasco

Have you made contact with the board? Have you all addressed the board in any way? 285 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Braxton

We have to some degree. Legally, we're supposed to address our contacts to the administration, who is supposed to pass this on to the board. We have made the board aware of this by giving them leaflets before one of their recent meetings. We are also in touch with some of the board members individually. But so far it's the administration's position that's prevailing, which is they are saying that they will try to make it up, but they're not saying when.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments from Members of the Committee? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Seeing none, thank you so much. Good afternoon. Thank you for your patience. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. 286 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Hanley

Thank you. My name is Joseph Hanley. Council President Verna and other Members of City Council, again my name is Joseph Hanley. I am a senior property administrator for PNC Bank. However, this afternoon I'm here in the capacity as vice president of the Building Owners and Managers Association, commonly referred to as BOMA, to testify on behalf of the Philadelphia Tax Reform Commission Bills 040009 through 040021. As a non-profit organization whose members provide over 90 million square feet of workplace throughout the City and the tri-state area, BOMA supports meaningful tax reform within Philadelphia. These are some of the City-related facts in which BOMA members' buildings provide: 51 million square feet of office space. Excess of 500,000 office workers. 6 billion. Annual real estate tax revenue to the City of approximately $133 million. 16 billion. As real estate professionals in the Philadelphia area, BOMA members work with two types of companies and organizations; tenants whose businesses operate within the City who struggle with the decision of whether to remain in Philadelphia or to relocate somewhere outside the City limits, and prospective tenants that are considering a move to the City or the region. Based from discussions with our tenants and potential tenants, the number one concern is that businesses located within the City shoulder a tax burden that businesses outside the City do not. The current inequity tax structure is a major barrier to future growth and prosperity within the City of Philadelphia. Creating equity in the City's tax structure is just one of the issues involved here. More importantly, tax reform is about creating an environment that will foster 288 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET growth, generate new jobs and improve the overall quality of life throughout the City and its neighborhoods. Meaningful tax reform will benefit us all. The failure to undertake meaningful tax reform, on the other hand, can have devastating consequences to the City. In recent months, we have been kept afloat by the fact that several large corporations and major employers with upcoming lease expirations have made the decision to remain in the City. This news follows a long decline in the City's employment base. 6 percent in 2001. 5 million square feet, due to conversions of office space to more productive uses, including residential real estate. The current vacancy rate would have been even higher had not this been the case. New construction currently in progress, as well as proposed new office towers, could well 289 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET aggravate the current vacancy rate if new bold tax initiatives are not undertaken now. It is important to note that many of the recent transactions may not have happened without major economic concessions by the City and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. While strategies such as one-off transactions and certain KOIZs benefit specific employers who have the right connections yield results in terms of retention, these are peace meal strategies at best, and furthermore aggravate the inherent inequity of the current tax structure, in so far as other property owners and residents end up shouldering the tax burden. These piece meal strategies hamper the City's ability to facilitate a long-term plan for benefiting the community as a whole. What we are facing is simple economics of supply and demand. At the present time, supply is outstripping demand. The market is out of equilibrium. With vacancy rates rising and rental rates declining, a reduction in commercial property values is not far behind. 290 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET A number of BOMA members have already filed protective tax appeals. To date, those represented only a fraction of the overall membership. However, it could be the proverbial handwriting on the wall.

Mr. Hanley

If the City does not adopt meaningful tax reform, and thereby create an environment that will attract new businesses, these trends will only continue. The math is pretty straightforward. A 10 to 20 percent reduction in commercial property value will lead to a significant erosion to the City's tax base. The unfortunate result of this trend would most likely be a shifting of the tax burden to the residential sector. In our opinion, the Philadelphia Tax Reform Commission's recommendations represent a cohesive strategy for achieving growth and prosperity.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any questions or comments from Members of the Committee? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Thank you 291 05/12/04 - WHOLE - '05 OPERATING BUDGET so much for your patience. We appreciate your coming in to testify.

Mr. Hanley

Thank you very much. - - - - 292 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Council President Verna

Please identify yourself and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Iding

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm Pat Iding. I'm the current President of the Philadelphia Council of the AFL-CIO, representing somewhere around 150,000 workers who live and work in the City of Philadelphia. Shall I proceed?

Council President Verna

Please.

Mr. Iding

Thank you, Madam Chairman, and I thank this Council to allow me a few minutes to give our feelings and represent the labor movement in the City. I do not come before you as a fiscal expert or budget analyst, and I do not come before you as... But I do come before you as one who has spent decades representing working people in the City of Philadelphia, in particular organized labor. I'm always ready to stand out for the City of Philadelphia and for the workers of Philadelphia, as the workers are ready to stand out for the City of 293 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Philadelphia. With all the fine detailed analysis that has been conducted by many parties on the issue of tax reform, and all the new articles, opinions, and columns and editorials, and with all the public and political opinion on all sides of the tax issue, I have struggled to identify what I might bring to the discussion, from my position as President of the AFL-CIO, and as a concerned resident of Philadelphia. I have been impressed with the dedication and sincerity all the parties have brought to this debate. As a labor leader in Philadelphia, I can assure you that I and various unions represented by the AFL-CIO are equally dedicated and sincere when it comes to wanting and needing the City to succeed in meeting the present and long-term commitments. First, let us not ignore the fact our local government's financial difficulties has many sources outside the City itself. 294 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget The Federal Government is draining resources from our cities and returning little, while incomprehensible sums are spent on someone's else's idea of proper military and international spending, tax cuts to the wealthy, and program expenditures to the unfunded domestic needs. The Federal Government continues to impose security needs on cities, especially large ones like Philadelphia, without providing any or anywhere near the resources to service these needs. We are outraged and frustrated over this, and I think we should be. With regard to the tax reform package that's in front of you, I have a serious problem. The approach seems to put forward massive tax cuts, somehow labeled as reform, yet unaccompanied with the functional reforms where the money is to be saved. It just seems to me that this is putting the cart before the horse. We all think we know that the money 295 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget can be saved in the operation of City government, but we also know that when those savings affect our neighborhoods, our communities, our libraries, our schools, our recreation centers, suddenly they become very unpopular. There are a number of efforts under way now to look at realizing -- re-sizing functions in the City in response to changes in population. These efforts should proceed responsibly. Changes should be fare, equitable across the board, and not be driven by the strength of a particular -- a particular or a parochial interest. I say respectfully that if this legislative body cuts taxes by another quarter billion dollars over this five-year plan, I am very concerned for our brothers and sisters who are municipal unionized workers and for all our City's work force in general, because common sense seems to tell us that if the City is already struggling to balance its budget and books 296 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget by cutting services, closing some recreation centers and pools, cutting funding of the arts, and re-sizing Fire Department operations, what services and workers are we going to have to cut to pay for another $285 million in tax cuts? We'd have to cut police officers, and firefighters, health center workers, sanitation workers, the workers that keep our beautiful Fairmount Park, and the workers who operate the recreation centers for our children. I'm also well aware that this budget as it is proposed, includes no wage increases for our municipal unionized work force.

Mr. Iding

The organized labor movement stands with our brothers and sisters who work in our City government in deserving a fair, living wage. But how can they bargain for that, what they deserve, if another quarter billion dollar hole is created in the five-year plan? 297 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget As I said, I come before you not as a number's cruncher but as a person who's spent a lifetime standing up for workers. That is what compels me to come before you today and urge you to vote no on this package of additional tax cuts. We can only spell bad news in the long run for the men and women who work so hard, pay their taxes, play by the rules, live in the City, the City we love. And I think that we have to consider them when we're considering any kind of tax cut. Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Councilwoman Blackwell, your light is on. Did you want to be recognized?

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you. I wanted to thank Mr. Pat Iding. I serve with him also on a board that where many, many, some 80,000 people are involved. His concern for our City, his 298 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget work in labor is renown. We thank him for coming and for speaking out on the issues that affect our citizens. Thank you, Pat.

Mr. Iding

Thank you Councilwoman.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Seeing none, thank you so much for your testimony. MR. McPHERSON: The next witness is Richard Watson.

Council President Verna

Is Richard Watson here? MR. McPHERSON: Naomi Zaslow. (No response.) MR. McPHERSON: George Boggs, Sr. (No response.) MR. McPHERSON: Action Alliance for Seniors. (No response.) MR. McPHERSON: Fred Murphy was here. He has left testimony. 299 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget MR. McPHERSON: Cynthia Figueroa.

Council President Verna

Good afternoon.

Ms. Figueroa

Good afternoon.

Council President Verna

Please identify yourself for the record, and perhaps you could identify the group with you.

Ms. Figueroa

My name is Cynthia Figueroa. I am the Executive Director of Women Against Abuse. And with me today I have representatives from the three other domestic violence agencies, as well Tara Knight, the Residential Services Director for Women Against Abuse; Roberta Hacker from Women in Transition; Ana Lisa Yoder from Lutheran Settlement House; and joining us shortly is Joanna Otero from Congreso de Latino Unidos. I'll be testifying on behalf of the committee.

Council President Verna

Okay. I notice that your testimony is rather lengthy.

Ms. Figueroa

I promise it will be 300 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget short.

Council President Verna

We will give a copy of it to the stenographer, and it will be transcribed.

Ms. Figueroa

Certainly.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Ms. Figueroa

Today I want to provide you information in support of the Mayor's budget through general operating dollars designated to support the enhancement of domestic violence services in Philadelphia. Specifically, the Mayor's budget -- proposed budget will provide funding for the expansion of domestic violence shelter services, and the enhancement of the City-wide Domestic Violence Hotline. Recently in a press release issued by Mayor John F. Street, dated September 23, 2003, the Mayor appointed a domestic violence task force. There are statistics that illustrated that in a period of nine months there had been over 82,000 911 calls 301 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget involving domestic violence. There were 10,715 crimes that were coded as domestic violence in nature, most of which were aggravated assault. Equally alarming right now is that the limited staff and financial resources of domestic violence communities have to serve the women and children. As the fifth largest City in the nation, we have some of the most limited resources in the nation. The four domestic violence agencies present today have a total of 104 full and part-time staff designated directly to serving victims. In addition, Women Against Abuse runs the only domestic violence shelter in Philadelphia, with a limited capacity to serve only 46 women and children. There are only two major funding sources at a state level which over the course of the last few years have been cut. This year we're seeing level funding from one of our state funders. 302 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget I would like to point out that related to shelter services, while other cities suffer severe shortage, Philadelphia is worse than other major cities. Chicago has approximately one domestic violence shelter bed for every 13,000 residents, and New York has approximately one for every over 5,000 residents. Philadelphia currently has approximately one bed for every 23,076 residents. As mentioned before, the current facility only holds 46 women and children. Additionally, our lack of resources means that we serve as a triage system, and that we have to turn several women and children away, particularly to the homeless shelter system. The other part of the proposed budget would -- The proposed budget would actually allow Women Against Abuse to double our shelter capacity, and we could bring the City-wide number to a hundred 303 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget shelter beds for Philadelphia. Domestic violence services are captured mostly through our hotline services, which are really the lifeline of services in Philadelphia. Together, as a group, we provide safety planning, counseling, advocacy and referrals for -- through our hotlines. Right now the budget would allow us to coordinate and appropriately fund the hotline to enhance Philadelphia's ability to respond to domestic violence. The Mayor's budget will also support existing staff. Currently the providers all have individual hotline numbers. And due to our limited resources, we often collaborate to cover each other's hotlines. Having several numbers for one -- for one City is often cumbersome and confusing for clients and victims and the systems that need to reach us. The Mayor's budget will actually provide us assistance in planning and the consolidation of the local domestic 304 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget violence hot lines. Most significantly, this would enhance our services and alleviate the pressures on other systems, for example, the police department. We're hoping that the City will send a clear message, that we care about the women and children. We are grateful, and it's much needed and well time -- overdue, that there's designated funding to support the enhancement of domestic violence shelter services and hotline services. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. Any questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Seeing none, I thank you for your patience.

Ms. Figueroa

Thank you.

Council President Verna

You've been very patient. Thank you so much. 305 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget (Applause.) MR. McPHERSON: Next witness is Jean Bluebaker. Jean Bluebaker. (No response.) MR. McPHERSON: Charles Taylor.

Council President Verna

Good afternoon. Thank you for coming in. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Ms. Muchison

My name is Bernadette Lorainne Teagle Muchison.

Council President Verna

The noise level is much, much too high.

Ms. Muchison

Thank you, Madam Chairman.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Ms. Muchison

Good afternoon honorary Council Chairwoman Anna Verna, council members, distinguished guest speakers, and to all who are assembled today. My name is Bernadette Lorainne Muchison, and I live in Councilmanic Marian Tasco's Ninth Councilmanic District in 306 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Logan for over 27 years. I am also a committee person of 49th Ward, 22nd Division, who represent over 900 registered voters.

Council President Verna

That's a big division.

Ms. Muchison

I have to come ask Council's office for your help. We have distributed -- (Alarm sounds.)

Council President Verna

Please proceed.

Ms. Muchison

We have hand delivered letters to Council's office, Council person's at large office, requesting funds to be diverted back to recreation centers, particularly Barrett Playground in Logan. We are asking for immediate change in the decision to close Barrett Recreation Center at Logan. This is the only recreation center in Logan, the only one in our community. The impact to close Barrett Center 307 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget in our community would be devastating. This is the site where our children have quality programs. The center have after school programs, computers, gymnastics, exercise equipment used by the community. Summer camps are held here. Our basketball courts and fields are utilized as well. Adults use this center for activities as well. We have community meetings, rallies, et cetera, at the center. Seniors, foster parents, day care providers, as well as nearby schools without yards bring their children daily to use this site. We are asking these residents, especially the ones that were displaced, due to the sinking home area, to not travel out of our community to another community and use their facility. Barrett... It is extremely imperative to maintain community programs at Barrett which is indeed -- enhances the quality of life in Logan. 308 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget These types of services prevent crimes by children who have over -- who otherwise would be idle. They are not going to travel over a mile to use a facility in another community. Why should they? This is the only site where the 49th Division, 22nd and 14th have -- hold their elections. There is no new growth in the Logan community. There are no new developments in the Logan community. And therefore, we are overwhelmed with the little services that are provided there, and we're fed up with it. The first major devastating impact that happened in Logan was the sinking homes. Our State Representative, Council Office, Marian Tasco, stands by our efforts not to close Barrett Recreation Center. Our community stands by our efforts by signing petitions and speaking -- and having me speak in front of you today. We hope that you listen, and pray 309 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget that you make the right decision to stand by our Logan residents, by not closing Barrett Recreation Center. Thank you ever so much for your time.

Council President Verna

Thank you. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you so much, Miss Muchison. I know that you have been here all day. I go out and you come on. But thank you for coming down to testify. I just want to say to my colleagues that the Barrett playground is in an area that has suffered for many, many years from the tag of being the sinking home area. And there are a not a lot of resources in that area. We are working very hard with Let's Love Logan, and the other programs, Ad Hoc Logan, and the various community programs there to help, you know, improve the quality of life in 310 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget the Logan area. They work very hard to provide programs at Barrett. And there is no other recreation center around the corner, as purported by the Recreation Department, as they try to close these recreation facilities down. I have stated my frustration about the process or lack thereof in establishing what -- and not having a criteria how you're closing these recreation facilities. One day I have no recreation facilities on the list in the Ninth Councilmanic District. Then I look up and there are several on the list, with no 17 conversation. And how they came to the conclusion that the site should be closed just boggles my mind. I don't have a definitive analysis and a criteria upon which these recreation centers have been targeted. And I think it would be awful to close any of the centers that they have targeted in the District because we have so 311 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget few in the Ninth Councilmanic District. And they are not close to each other. And to close the one in Barrett, the Barrett Recreation Center, would be criminal, so -- and would be a disservice to those people in the Logan community who use that facility, and to the children in that area who have no place else to go. So thank you so much for coming down to testify.

Ms. Muchison

Thank you.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you.

Ms. Muchison

May I state one other point? As the speaker from the Recreation Commissioner has spoke, there were renovations done, renovations under way as we are speaking.

Councilwoman Tasco

Right.

Ms. Muchison

Now why are we on the list to be closed? It does not make sense. There's activities every night there. Children have nowhere to go. Every night there. We stand by our children, and I hope you do the same. 312 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you very much. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Our next witness. MR. McPHERSON: Is Mr. Crawford.

Council President Verna

Good afternoon, Mr. Crawford. Please identify yourself and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Crawford

My name is David Crawford. Madam President, I had so much fun Monday I just had to come back. I want to give some testimony live, and I also want to submit written testimony of my partner, Steve Mullen. Steve is unable to be here because of a prearranged commitment. Steve has written testimony on the question that came up on Monday as to whether a passage of a set of tax reductions would have a negative impact on the City's credit rating. Steve's view is that it would not, 313 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget contrary to testimony that came from the Administration. So I'm submitting that testimony, and reporting that Steve would be available to talk with any Council members who have questions about it at some other time. As for my testimony, I wanted to address some questions that were raised by Chief of Staff Wilkerson and others regarding E-Consult's estimates of the stimulative effect of the tax reductions proposed by the Tax Reform Commission. Five quick points. Well, four quick points and one that takes a little longer. We followed a well-established method for making these sorts of calculations. We based the calculations on econometric models which were, in turn, based on historical data on tax rates and revenues. We did not, as some questioners suggested, assume the size of the impacts of tax rates on revenue. Rather, we allowed the historical data to tell us what 314 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget the relationships have been in the past, and we used those relationships to project the future impacts of proposed changes. This is how virtually all public policy analysis is conducted. Our approach even allowed the possibility that we would find impacts whose directions contradicted economic theory. I'm pleased to say that we didn't find any such, but the method did not stack the deck. Second, we looked at the impact of each changing tax rate on its own base and on the base of other taxes. For example, our investigation revealed that Wage Tax cuts can be expected to cause increases not just in the Wage Tax space, but also in the property tax base. We measured these effects, what we call own effects and cross effects, for all of the tax rates, and those are built into our calculations. Third, in addition to looking at historical relationships between tax rates 315 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget and tax bases, we also looked at relationships between tax rates and employment, which is the source of the employment projections that were submitted to the Commission. Fourth. Now I have to get slightly technical. Our models focused on Philadelphia's share of national activity, not on the absolute level of such activity. For example, we looked at Philadelphia Wage Tax base as a percentage of total wages earned in the United States. We focused on shares for two reasons. First of all, because Philadelphia competes nationally for business and household location, its share of the nation is a good indicator of its relative growth and success. And second, by using the local share, we have effectively controlled for national trends in growth and inflation. Thereby, we avoid attributing changes in the Philadelphia tax bases that would result from inflation or other 316 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget general trends. We avoid attributing those to changes in the City's tax rates. Fifth and finally, on Monday Miss Wilkerson expressed concern that the size of the supply side response that E-Consult had estimated was, quoting her written testimony, more than five times as great as the model developed for the country's largest state by one of the leading economics departments in the world. I want to bring to the attention of Council that in 1997 the New England Economic Review which is published by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, contained an article by Michael Wezelenkow, in which he surveyed the evidence from dozens of studies of the impacts of taxation on the economic development all over the country.

Mr. Crawford

Professional Wezelenkow pointed out, as did Councilman Kenney on Monday, that the size of the response to tax changes depends on the size of the region considered. Professor Wezelenkow goes on to say 317 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget that responses to tax changes within a region tend to be at least four times as big as the response between regions. Ms. Wilkerson's comparison of E-Consult's estimates of impacts in Philadelphia with existing estimates for California should be viewed as enhancing, not undermining, the credibility of the E-Consult estimates, because our estimates are entirely consistent with the results of a large body of mainstream economic analysis. I'd be happy to try to answer any questions.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any questions from members of the Committee? The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Crawford, you had some opportunity to... you and/or other members of your firm, to look at the financial 318 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget situation in Philadelphia, not just in a snapshot form; but you... the company did work for the Philadelphia Tax Reform Commission, I think, at their request; is that right?

Mr. Crawford

That's correct. And before that, for the Controller's Office.

Councilman Nutter

For the Controller's Office. Okay. And part of your work ended up in one of the volumes of the Tax Reform Commission work?

Mr. Crawford

That's correct.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Crawford

Volume III.

Councilman Nutter

And at the present point in time when you were here the other day, you've heard a significant amount of testimony from a variety of perspectives, either supporting or proposing the Tax Reform Commission's proposals. Is there anything that you've heard in your professional opinion that would 319 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget dissuade you, either from the time of your work at the Tax Reform Commission last year or you did some work with the 21st Century Review Forum, which was this year, the committee put together by the Mayor. Is there anything that you've heard that tells you that the Tax Reform Commission plan would not work?

Mr. Crawford

Working my way through the triple negative.

Councilman Nutter

I understand.

Mr. Crawford

No. I haven't learned anything that changes my view that the Tax Reform Commission hit it right. You know, what's happened since that time, since I worked there is, we've got a clearer picture of the budget. I think the picture we're looking at today is pretty much the picture that the 21st Century Review Forum was looking at. I don't think there's a lot of news since then. No, I have not heard anything that deters me from my opinion that the package 320 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget put forward by the Tax Reform Commission is the right way to go.

Councilman Nutter

Tell us a little bit about the 21st Century Review Forum work. What was the context? There was a subcommittee as a part of one of the five --

Mr. Crawford

Yes. There were committees and then subcommittees. The Forum was made up of five committees, one of which was the Program Evaluation Committee. That's the committee on which I serve. Then the Program Evaluation Committee had five subcommittees, one of which was on the subject of tax reform.

Councilman Nutter

Yes.

Mr. Crawford

The others were NTI, Education, Services for Children, and whichever one I'm forgetting. My work was largely focused on the tax subcommittee which was chaired by Dr. Jerry Nowack.

Councilman Nutter

And the 321 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget conclusion of the subcommittee was what?

Mr. Crawford

Well, with regard to the Tax Reform Commission, we reviewed their recommendations, we considered their recommendations, and developed an understanding of them. And at the end, we were quite comfortable endorsing all but one of the recommendations which was a sort of technical inside baseball kind of recommendation, number seven.

Councilman Nutter

Do you have any recollection, and was there any... Did the 21st Century Review Forum just pretty much rely on the work that was done by the Tax Reform Commission, in terms of financial analyses or kind of a rounding of the numbers?

Mr. Crawford

Well, we did -- we did rely heavily on the Tax Reform Commission's work. But as one of the committee members, Ed McBride of P.E.C.O. said at one of our meetings, it was now time for somebody else 322 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget to look at the product of the Tax Reform Commission and try to evaluate whether the recommendations were sensible. So it really was an attempt to take a fresh look at what they had -- at what they had recommended.

Councilman Nutter

And I guess lastly, from the Tax Reform Commission report, in conjunction with the work that you did, I'm looking at a chart on that indicates that the Commission recommendations, if implemented, would have an FY '05 impact of $17.1 million. Do you have any -- I know that that work was a while ago, but do you have any recollection of those figures?

Mr. Crawford

I do remember those figures, Councilman. But I should point out that E-Consult did not make those computations. Those computations were made by the Tax Reform Commission. And as I understand, they in turn relied very heavily on the financial analysts in the 323 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Administration to make those calculations.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. You're available for any other questions or issues that may arise that members may have, with regard to these matters or your work?

Mr. Crawford

Certainly. Certainly.

Councilman Nutter

And I know you indicated you have Mr. Melon's testimony. He couldn't be here, with the schedule conflict. But his testimony tries to speak to the issue with regard to rating agencies and their views of what we may do.

Mr. Crawford

That's right. His testimony is entirely focused on the issue that Finance Director Davis raised, about the possible impact of changing legislation on the credit rating in the City of Philadelphia.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Maybe my last question will be this one. There's been a great amount of expression of concern, with regard to a more doomsday like scenario, out of the work of the Tax 324 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Reform Commission or even the comments or statements made by the 21st Century Review Forum. Do you share any of those doomsday scenarios, if we start on a path of significantly changing the tax structure of the City, while at the same time conducting ourselves in a way that requires annual review of all of our actions?

Mr. Crawford

No. I don't see any likelihood of any sort of doomsday scenario if the package were to be enacted. As you point out, I don't think anybody is talking here about locking in rates for five years or ten years. There was a lot of discussion about that Monday. But I have never heard anybody say we need to absolutely lock in tax rates for five years or ten years. What we're talking about is putting a schedule in place, knowing that if it's... if it goes off the track, we can come back and amend it. I think only a fool would try to... I guess Mr. Gore 325 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget learned about lock boxes. I don't know that you would try to lock in tax rates for a ten-year horizon, with no possible recourse to readjust them. But it strikes me that that's a straw man sort of argument that's come up, that -- because as I read the Tax Reform Commission, they didn't propose it. They didn't propose locking these things in. The subject never even came up with the tax subcommittee of the 21st Century Review Forum. I don't think any of us were contemplating that there would be some absolute lock-in. So given that you're not doing an absolute lock-in, I don't see it being risky at all. In fact, you're talking in the first year about... about very, very small changes. So, no, I don't see a potential for doomsday. And I guess I would also point out, in the interest of completeness, that if you don't do anything...

Councilman Nutter

Well, that was 326 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget going to be my next question, because I'd like you to give us your perspective on the cost or the impact of doing nothing.

Mr. Crawford

Well, if you don't do anything, I don't think doomsday would be the right metaphor, because it's going to be slow in coming. Doomsday suggests something immediate and abrupt, but... (A Councilman said something, away from the microphone, not reportable.)

Mr. Crawford

Well, no, it's probably dooms decade, Councilman, that if... You know, what you're going to see if you keep this current tax package in place, I think, is a continuing decline of the City economy. I said in my testimony on Monday that the choice really that was before this Council was between trying to really turn things around in Philadelphia or just managing its decline. I think if you don't do something, it's going to continue to decline, which means as each year goes by, there's going 327 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget to be less economic activity in the City. There's going to be -- Even with the current tax rates, there's going to be less tax revenue. There's going to be less ability to provide services. And that would be a true disaster. Unlike many people who advocate cutting taxes, I believe in government, and I believe in the value of government services. And I think the real concern about doing nothing is not in the '05 budget. It's in the '10 budget and the '15 budget, when Philadelphia just simply will not be able to provide even minimal services. It's not going to happen abruptly. It's not going to... We can't say it's going to happen tomorrow. But I think it's going to happen. It's already happening.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos. 328 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Ramos

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Crawford, for taking time again today to share your insight, and given that you have done this for a long period of time. In the work that you did in support of the TRC and the -- I believe it's in the TRC report -- E-Consult said, and I quote, our greatest concern regarding the revenue impacts of reducing the gross receipts and Wage Tax rates is whether the City can increase its property tax revenues in proportion to the predicted rise in property values associated with tax reductions. The question is whether the City will resist the inevitable pressure to slow the growth and assessments and/or lower the effective property tax rate as property values rise, end of quote. Do you remember that?

Mr. Crawford

Yes, I do.

Councilman Ramos

What do you think 329 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget about that? Don't we need Philadelphians to absorb or 30 percent increases in 4 real estate tax bills to get these 5 recommendations to work? 6

Mr. Crawford

Over time... If you 7 look at the whole package together, over 8 time -- 9

Councilman Ramos

Well, would -- 10

Mr. Crawford

-- one of the 11 fundamental principles is that there's 12 going to be an increasing reliance on 13 property taxes as a share of total revenue. 14 As the relative size of wage and 15 business taxes shrink, the relative size of 16 property taxes is going to increase. 17 And I testified on Monday, and I 18 believe it just as strongly today, that 19 this Council should not launch cuts of 20 business and wage taxes unless you have the resolve --

Councilman Ramos

I remember that very distinctly.

Mr. Crawford

-- unless you have the resolve to allow property tax revenues 330 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget to go up.

Councilman Ramos

Do you think Philadelphians will need to absorb to 30 5 percent increases in tax bills to get these 6 recommendations to work? 7

Mr. Crawford

That could be about 8 the right... It sounds a little high, but 9 it could be about the right ballpark. 10

Councilman Ramos

Could be right. 11 That's a lot. That's a lot to absorb. 12

Mr. Crawford

Remember -- 13

Council President Verna

Chair 14 recognizes Councilman Kenney. 15

Councilman Kenney

20 percent over 16 what period of time? 17

Mr. Crawford

Well, I mean, the 18 package -- the package is going over, like, 19 ten years. 20

Councilman Kenney

So it's 20 percent over 10 years.

Councilman Ramos

Well, that's a follow-up question. Is that over a ten-year period or is that...

Mr. Crawford

I'd have to go back 331 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget and look. And I will. I don't know over what period. Let me remind you what I said in --

Councilman Kenney

But it's not 6 percent in 2005. 7

Mr. Crawford

Oh, it's not 8 immediate. Oh, absolutely not. 9

Councilman Kenney

Thank you. 10

Mr. Crawford

I mean, it's -- 11 it's -- it's -- it's -- it's tiny in the 12 first -- in the first period. 13 You need to keep in mind that 14 compared to the overwhelming majority of 15 cities, Philadelphia's property taxes are a 16 very low percentage of its total taxes. 17 If you set yourself up to make an 18 apples to apples comparison, it's a little 19 hard to do because some cities have the 20 School District in and some don't. So, what we did was, we took the School District out of our numbers and compared them to other cities. When you do it on that basis, Philadelphia is getting about 21 percent of 332 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget its tax revenue from property taxes. The average of major cities is 40 percent. So Philadelphia has made an historical decision or there has been a historical evolution that has brought us to the point where property taxes are a relatively small part of our revenue stream and Wage and Business Taxes are a relatively large part. And that's exactly the way you want to design a system if you want to strangle a City, because the supply side impacts of high business taxes are going to be much more significant than the impacts of high property taxes. It is much easier for business and jobs to move away from the City than it is for the property.

Councilman Ramos

Can you get us specific information? Because your first answer, when I posed the question, was that it was about right. Then when my good friend and colleague, Councilman Kenney, jumped in, 333 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget then we got into whether this was over a ten-year period or not. Can you... I mean, you --

Mr. Crawford

Well, I'll have to go look at --

Councilman Ramos

I mean, this is something that you've made very clear in your statement, that unless -- you know, unless this happens, you shouldn't -- that we shouldn't then do this.

Mr. Crawford

That's right. And let me just repeat what I said in response to Councilman Nutter's question. We didn't toss the plan out. That was done by the Finance Office of the City. Those numbers are their numbers. I didn't make those calculations. And I would assume that they have made their calculations with professional integrity. But backing off from the numbers and looking at the big picture, one of the fundamental underlying philosophies of the Tax Reform Commission is a shift from business and wage taxes to property taxes. 334 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget And I think it's important that everybody understand that. Whether you like it or don't like it, I think it's important that everybody understand it.

Councilman Ramos

Now, a lot of this also is based on real property tax reform that's coming from Harrisburg. I was up last night watching some of that debate go on. You know, the business of slots is also in play here. Isn't that a big part of getting tax reform funded? Isn't that a big part of it? We need this real property tax reform to really happen through the state with these slots, for this to really be able to do a significant reduction in our tax structure.

Mr. Crawford

We made two sets of projections: One, that assumed no change in state taxes; and another that assumed the package of reforms that Governor Rendell had put in play at around the time we were doing the work. Virtually all of the discussion that 335 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget you've heard of our work in the last several days is based on the scenario in which there is no state tax reform. If there is no state tax reform, then you are looking at the shortfall in -- the shortfalls in revenues that people have been -- that people have been talking about. If you assume that there is some sort of significant state tax reform, of the sort that Governor has proposed, that flips you into the other scenario in which you can... our projections show that you can run the decreases, in fact the accelerated decreases of the Wage Tax without reducing revenue, that there's going to be enough in that -- there's going to be enough in that deal to fully offset, in fact, more than fully offset.

Councilman Ramos

Just one last question, Madam President. I just want to engage you in this because you know a whole lot more than I do in this -- in this field. 336 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget What's your thinking of why we should go first, instead of us waiting until the state... you know, see what happens with the state proposals?

Mr. Crawford

Well, I think what you -- what you should do is go --

Councilman Ramos

I understand we should be daring and, you know, --

Mr. Crawford

Yeah. I -- I --

Councilman Ramos

-- and we have to be valiant. I understand all of that, but why --

Mr. Crawford

No. I --

Councilman Ramos

-- you know, why should we go first? Why shouldn't -- Why can't -- Why shouldn't we wait until the state... you know, see if we get slots, and see if we get this real property tax relief?

Mr. Crawford

My answer is, you should go as far as you can without state tax reform and do that now. If the state tax reform comes through, you can do more. And in fact, the Tax Reform 337 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Commission, I think anticipating the ambiguous political environment, gave two different scenarios of tax cutting, one to be implemented if there was no tax reform, the state tax reform, and a more aggressive cutting regime if there were tax reform. So, my advice to the Council is the to take that less aggressive package that the -- that the Tax Commission proposed. And then, if something like what the Governor proposed happens, then you could move on to the more aggressive form.

Councilman Ramos

Well, is your last statement a statement as our consultant or is that a statement as an officer in E-Consult? Because you're saying that we should now... Because you are our consultant now, I believe, right? At last I got a letter --

Councilman Ramos

-- to that effect

Councilman Ramos

So you're here in 338 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget public testimony suggesting to me that I should take the... run with the tax reform package.

Mr. Crawford

Yeah. The --

Councilman Ramos

Is that a yes?

Mr. Crawford

The answer to your questions are the same. I give you... As my client, I give you my honest opinion.

Councilman Ramos

Okay.

Mr. Crawford

I've discovered over my consulting career that that's sometimes cost me engagements. But I have always told my clients what I think because I think that's why you hired me. So the question that I give you as consultant is also my -- my personal view as an economist.

Councilman Ramos

Thank you. Thank you for your answers. MR. McPHERSON: Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Mr. Chairman, thank you. Good afternoon. I would just like to go back to the comments concerning the 339 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget real estate tax. (Alarm rings.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Fastest five minutes I've ever had. And you agree that it would not be posed by Mr. -- Councilman Kenney, that it would not be an immediate increase, and we spread out. And I know you don't have all of the facts and figures in front of you. But the would ten years be a reasonable amount of years where you think that increase would be spread out, could be spread out? I mean, I'm not going to hold you --

Mr. Crawford

Yes. Yes. In our projections, what we assumed was that the effective property tax rate would remain the same, and you hold the line with that effective tax rate as property values go up. So there's no increase in tax rates, but there would be an increase in property tax revenue as the value of the properties increased. 340 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So if we used the ten years, and we take that percent 4 increase, it's two percent a year. 5

Mr. Crawford

It's even less when 6 you take into account compounding, correct. 7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm going to go 8 high. 9

Mr. Crawford

That's right. 10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm going to go 11 high. 12

Mr. Crawford

That's right. 13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And the reason 14 is last year when we were... Was it last 15 year? I even forgot. Last year or the 16 year before, when tens of thousands of City 17 residents received an overwhelming increase 18 in their real estate taxes in one fell 19 swoop, if you will. 20 What I heard from my constituents -- And I conducted four or five town meetings across my District; and literally several thousand people attended those meetings cumulatively -- was that most people realized that, like everything else in 341 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget life, the cost of living increases, and there's certain taxes that will go up, although we don't like that to happen, but that's the reality of it. The message that was clear to me was that people understood that because government, like all of us who have a budget, the cost of doing business increases. And they were willing to accept minimal incremental increases spread out over a period of time. So, kind of answering Councilman Ramos's questions that he posed to you, is that... And I'm not in favor of tax increases, but realizing that some -- You're shifting. It's going to have to come from somewhere. I don't think that 20 percent over 10 years -- it could even be longer, maybe a little bit less, but I don't think less than ten years, is all that something that would be that significant, in terms of causing some negative effect on the 342 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget population about, here goes my real estate taxes, and I'm getting out of town, because, you know, when you get a 600 -- when you get a two -- one, two or three hundred percent increase, as many of them did last year, that is reason for concern, when you're paying in Society Hill which is a neighborhood I represent, and you're paying $6,000 a year, and you get a bill 11 that now says you're going to be paying 11, or 20,000, that's shock and awe. 13 But those folks all said, you know, 14 point or two a year spread over the course 15 of ten years or so is acceptable and understandable. So I just wanted to clarify that, and again, to kind of answer a little bit about what Councilman Ramos was talking about. The other thing I wanted to mention, picking up on Councilman Nutter's statements to you about the effect... if we don't do something now, I posed some questions myself to the Administration the 343 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget other day about doing something dramatic. And I think now is the time to do it. When we talk about, if we don't do something now, the continual decline in the revenues and businesses and jobs in the City will continue, it's not as simple as that, as least for me. And that's where I need for you to kind of clarify it. We can look at a percentage of job reduction over a year or two or five or ten years, but it really doesn't hold to any specific formula, because isn't it kind of like the snowball effect? When... The more... Every year that you lose some, you actually lose more because it kind of... you know, one business is losing jobs, less revenue is coming in, and another business starts reducing. And then all of a sudden that little snowball becomes a larger snowball, and then it's a huge snowball that basically wipes you out sooner. We've been playing with this notion 344 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget for years that we're in trouble and the City has got to do something different. If not, we're not going to maybe function as a City any longer. But when people walk the streets and see things happening, for the average person, they don't get it. They don't see it, because they see police, they see fire personnel out there. And they just keep thinking, well, maybe it's political rhetoric. Maybe it's really not as bad as it is, when in fact those of us on the inside, who deal with this every day, understand what it means. And five or ten years out it may be worse than it has been for the last five years in decline. Does that make sense? Do you agree that --

Mr. Crawford

Yes, it does make sense. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- it can actually be much more dramatic over the last five years or the last ten years.

Mr. Crawford

It certainly could 345 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget be. I mean, I'm convinced that with the current structure, you're looking at ongoing decline. You raise the question of might there come a tipping point where that -- where the rate of decline could accelerate. And the answer is yes, that could happen. You could get into a sort of a death spiral scenario because, remember, as your economic engine shrinks, the needs of your population are not going to shrink as fast. So there's going to be more and more demands. So you get into a sort of a scenario where, you know, would the last business to leave Philadelphia please turn the lights off. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Right.

Mr. Crawford

So, yes, it could accelerate. I can't, as I sit here, tell you that it definitely will or when it will, but I think it's a reasonable scenario. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That none of us 346 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget can say, you're right. None of us have a crystal ball to look into the future. But if history has proven anything to us, it's certainly not going to make things better and it progressively or I think accelerates the problems that we have today going forward. Thank you. I don't have any further questions. MR. McPHERSON: Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Mr. Crawford, to follow up on an area where Councilman Ramos was, do you know of any other major city in the Commonwealth or any other major city across the country that has the array of taxes that we have in Philadelphia and/or the apparent over reliance on a wage tax to fund its operations?

Mr. Crawford

No, I don't. I think it's pretty clear that Philadelphia is an outlier, in terms of the structure of its tax. It may not be an outlier so much in the level but it certainly is an outlier in terms of the structure. 347 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

And would you agree or disagree with the statement that because of both the array of taxes that we have in contrast to other cities, and an over reliance on a wage tax, that may require us to do a fairly significant reworking of our tax structure because we're dealing with an array of taxes that most other cities don't have to contend with in the first place?

Mr. Crawford

Yeah. That's correct. Because other cities don't have these structures, it makes them more dangerous for us. And I would further argue that the comparisons you have to worry about most are the comparisons not with other cities but with your close-by neighbors; that, you know, big tax differences between the City of Philadelphia and the surrounding counties in both Pennsylvania and New Jersey are, you know, truly dangerous. If you think about a business deciding to locate, say that they're 348 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget already sold on the idea of coming to this general area. There are a number of things that they can get anywhere in that area. They can get the work force. They can get the weather. They can get the transportation network, basically. So, what is going to affect the choice? Once you've decided to come to the Philadelphia metropolitan area, what's going to affect the choice about where in that area to locate? Well, it's going to be the differences. It's going to be the things that make Delaware County different from Philadelphia, or make Burlington County, New Jersey, different from Bucks County, Pennsylvania. And once you get within the area, the glaring difference, the glaring disadvantage of Philadelphia is the tax structure.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. 349 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. Just in response to your statement about job retention, and you referenced New Jersey, although you did reference the surrounding counties. Do you have an idea as to why some of the larger corporations recently opted to re-up their leases in Philadelphia, as opposed to moving to Camden, given the significant size of the incentive package that was put on the table by New Jersey and they opted to stay in Philadelphia?

Mr. Crawford

I don't know the entire story. It is certainly true that we fared well in the last round of major corporate leases that were -- that were up for renewal, and that we did retain significant numbers. I don't know... I'm not privy to the decision processes of those companies, 350 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget and I also don't know what arrangements may have been made with those companies, in terms of incentives to stay. So, I really can't answer the question.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. Well, I mean, I asked that question because you just referenced our potential inability to retain jobs. And those are significant leases that were re-signed. And from all accounts, public accounts because I, like you, was not privy to the discussion in the room. But in all accounts, the financial package that was put on the table by New Jersey was three, four times what we offered, at least what people are telling us that was offered, because we sometimes find ourselves not being able to be the fly on the wall. And you have no sense of why that happened.

Mr. Crawford

I don't know about those particular cases. You know, different cities are going to have different reasons for being in 351 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Philadelphia. And those different reasons are of different importance to different firms. The fact that you retain a significant number of large employers is good news, undeniably, but it doesn't say that you're going to maintain employment levels. You know, the trend is pretty clear that overall employment in the City is declining. Now, holding on to a Cigna or another big group is a way to slow that decline or maybe even offset some of it. But I don't think we're -- I don't think we should take too much comfort in those new leases. We should not take so much comfort that we will decide not to -- not to dramatically change our tax structure.

Councilman Clarke

I agree with you, in that we should not take comfort. My question was pretty much in response to your statements, and the implication that as a result of our tax 352 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget structure -- And I do believe we have to do something about our tax structure, as much as anybody else in this room. It's just simply a way about getting there that the implication -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Point of information, if I can.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Not to interrupt the conversation, but I'm familiar with Cigna because the building that they're relocating to is in my District, moving out of your District, no 16 reflection on you, Councilman Clarke. And one of the reasons, I think the primary reason that they stayed, in addition to the financial package that we put together, and this Council supported the TIF, as you know, for that relocation project, is the fact that this company started in the City over 200 years ago, and they actually felt a very moral obligation.

Councilman Clarke

Councilman, I 353 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget think you're talking about Ace.

Council President Verna

I believe, Councilman -- I think Councilman Clarke is talking about Cigna. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Apologize.

Councilman Rizzo

Point of information.

Councilman Rizzo

I want to add -- I want to add to that.

Council President Verna

Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to add to that. Part of the of what I read, at least, is the fact that you said we shouldn't have comfort with that lease. And I agree also with that because I believe part of the decision was based on the fact that it disrupts... You know the word I'm trying to use.

Mr. Crawford

Disruption.

Council President Verna

Disruption. 354 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Rizzo

Yeah, disruption That would have occurred. And also they also indicated about people have to be relocated, et cetera. So, I don't think it was -- their decision was entirely based on just what they got out of a lease. At least that's my interpretation of what I read. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

I actually agree with Councilman Rizzo. I mean, the reality that there are a number of factors for people when they make these decisions. And, you know, not to suggest that Philadelphia is ahead of everyone else in some of those other areas. You know, obviously our educational system needs to be improved, and we need to increase our quality of life. I guess I only want to ask those questions in response to your statements; and two, understanding that there are 355 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget significant other issues that relate to decision making, it could be, and as Councilman Rizzo said it, the part that tipped the scale was people just simply didn't want to move their desk across the water. Hopefully, everyone feels that way. Another question. There was an issue that I talked about the other day about this... I didn't think I have it here... was the budget-based tax system that was the recommendation of the Tax Reform Commission. I'm trying to... I want to see. I may not have the corresponding bill.

Mr. Crawford

I think you're referring to Number 7.

Councilman Clarke

Number 7, right. Number 7. I voiced some concerns about that in earlier testimony. And from what I see, there have been references to it several places throughout the Tax Reform Commission's report, that potentially our ability to raise the necessary revenues, to ensure that we have 356 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget a balanced budget, pretty much reflect on our ability to either lower or increase the rate on our real estate. And at that time I voiced some serious concerns that it could potentially create a substantial increase in real estate revenues for the City that would essentially be on the backs of the people who live here and work here, who operate businesses here. And I wasn't in the room, but I think you may have referenced a certain potential percentage of increase. And I don't know over the time period. But based on my minimal analysis of some of this information, it appears that a substantial amount of the burden on this whole reform package will be shifted from the business and wage earners, a substantial amount who live outside of the City -- and we're trying to get the numbers, as it relates to the number of people who live and work in the City. We're trying to find what the now 357 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget resident's savings will be. That essentially will be put on the backs of individuals who live in the City. And I'm somewhat concerned about that. And if that is the case, I'd like to have the public understand that there's a real potential of substantial increases in their taxes on the real estate side.

Mr. Crawford

I don't think you were in the room a few minutes ago when I was addressing this, in response to another question. It is certainly the case that one of the underlying organizing principles of the Tax Reform Commission's package is that over time, over many years, over ten years, there will be a shift in the structure of Philadelphia's taxes, so that the City will rely less heavily on business and wage taxes and more heavily on property taxes. If it does that, it will move us to a structure that is much more consistent with other cities in the country, and it would be a move in the direction consistent 358 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget with what most economists would argue that what a city should try to do is move taxes away from those activities that are most mobile, that can leave the City the most easily, and toward those activities that are less mobile. That does mean that over time there will be an increase in real estate taxes. But a couple of considerations. Number one, it's likely to be very slow, this transition. And the second thing is that many, not all, but many of the property owners in Philadelphia are also wage earners or small business people. And while their property taxes may be increasing, they will be enjoying reductions in wage taxes or business taxes. So, in terms of the big picture, many people will not be hurt as much as you might think, when you first say, oh, my God; property taxes are going to go up. Now, let me rush to point out that there is a group that gets left behind. 359 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget There are property owners who are not wage earners and not small business owners. And there is going to be... There may be some challenges. And the Tax Reform Commission in its wisdom put in some safeguards and buffering ideas about how to soften that blow.

Councilman Clarke

Yeah. State authorized.

Mr. Crawford

But for --

Councilman Clarke

Some of those things are --

Mr. Crawford

But for lots of people there's going to be a reduction in wage and -- or business taxes that will offset the increase in property taxes.

Councilman Clarke

Have you done an analysis on the wage owners? And I know this is somewhat tedious, the wage -- the non-resident wage owners and the resident wage owners, that would simply allow you to determine the percentage of individuals who would, in fact, live in the City that could potentially get substantial or minimal 360 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget increases in real estate versus those individuals who live outside of the City who would not -- that would not impact them, although they would get reductions in wage tax?

Mr. Crawford

That is knowable. I don't know -- I don't -- And I think it's in the report that E-Consult gave to the Tax Commission which is now in Volume III, but I can't summon that number up from memory. It is known. The City knows what percentage of the tax base is from non-residents and what percentage is from residents?

Councilman Clarke

I know that. I know. My question -- And if I didn't form it right, I'm sorry.

Councilman Clarke

My question is, when you did your analysis, the... I guess because you were consultant to the Tax Reform Commission?

Mr. Crawford

Yes. 361 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Clarke

And supported the documents. When you did your analysis, did you take into account the percentages of non-residents versus residents, in analyzing the recommendations...

Mr. Crawford

We did.

Councilman Clarke

And impact on those two categories.

Mr. Crawford

In modeling the potential impacts, we did look into the issue of differential effects of residential and non-residential. And it turned out that, in terms of measuring the overall supply side impacts, it didn't really matter. If you broke it out separately, you got pretty much the same answers than if you broke it out -- than if you didn't. That doesn't mean it couldn't be done and shouldn't -- and, you know, it could be done for the questions that you're asking. We weren't asking that question. We 362 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget were trying to just capture the overall supply side effect. And what we learned was, it didn't really matter whether you looked at it separately or together for that question. But it may well matter for other questions. COUNCIMLAN CLARKE: Yeah. I mean, all right. It does.

Mr. Crawford

Absolutely.

Councilman Clarke

It does.

Mr. Crawford

Absolutely.

Councilman Clarke

You're talking to a politician. Where a person lives is always relevant.

Mr. Crawford

I understand.

Councilman Clarke

So let me understand. I guess the bell didn't ring, so I guess I'm going to keep talking. Your analysis that real estate revenue will not grow in a substantial level immediately, is that based on... What? I mean, we recently -- And I know a lot had to do with the interest rates, and 363 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget some other factors, where we had -- and we were wrestling with the issue in Council over the last couple of years about substantial increases in individual's real estate tax bills. And I saw, frankly speaking, a more aggressive increase in real estate values, subsequently taxes, than I've ever seen in job growth. And my concern is that, as aggressive as we are recommending that these tax cuts come into play, I don't think that the job growth will in any way, shape or form meet the potential growth in real estate taxes. Do you believe that to be the case? Do you really think that, you know, under this particular strategy, that the job growth will be that aggressive that will then create an environment where you will not have to increase the rate to meet our budget projections?

Mr. Crawford

I think over the long haul, yes, there will be growth. And it's 364 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget not just jobs. There will be growth in general business activity and growth in property values. But let me argue just a little bit with the premise to your question, in that we're not talking about dramatic changes out of the blocks. We're not talking about a huge reduction in business or wage taxes in the first year.

Councilman Clarke

I understand.

Mr. Crawford

So over time the cuts in business and wage taxes that have been recommended will get larger, though there's a cumulative effect of them, so they do become big.

Councilman Clarke

Right.

Mr. Crawford

But they become big gradually.

Councilman Clarke

But we're talking about locking -- We're talking about locking in those reductions. We're not talking about a plan. We're talking about a tax...

Mr. Crawford

Well -- 365 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Clarke

...that locks in those reductions.

Mr. Crawford

Well, I addressed that a few minutes ago, again, I think while you were out of the room. But I have -- I'm not aware that anybody is seriously suggesting any absolute lock-in of tax rates. I think that there was a lot of discussion about it Monday, but if you go back and look at the Tax Reform Commission report, they said, here's what we think you should do to reduce taxes. They didn't say lock it in. They didn't say you can't come back and revise it.

Councilman Clarke

We can always do that. We understand we can always --

Mr. Crawford

When the -- When the tax subcommittee of the 21st Century Review Forum looked at it, we never thought that we were talking about some sort of automaton tax policy that was going to be put in place for ten years. So, I'm not aware that anybody has made that 366 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget suggestion. I know some people have opposed the idea, but I have yet to see anybody who's recommending it. So, I'm not sure who those people are arguing with. You know, what you're talking about here is enacting a schedule of changes you intend to make in the tax rates.

Councilman Clarke

With a bill.

Mr. Crawford

Pardon?

Councilman Clarke

With a bill.

Mr. Crawford

With a bill. And if one year --

Councilman Clarke

You understand that's a little different than a plan.

Mr. Crawford

No; I do understand that. But I also understand that you can pass a bill, another bill, in a year or two years or three years. One of the, I think, big appeals of the approach that the Tax Reform Commission suggested is that you can proceed slowly. And if you get off track, you can fix it. They're not talking about... You're 367 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget not falling off a cliff. You're not dramatically changing rates overnight, so there will be an opportunity for the Administration and this Council to monitor how it's going, and make corrections if it's not... if it's not going as anticipated.

Council President Verna

Councilman Clarke, if you don't mind...

Councilman Clarke

That's fine.

Council President Verna

We'll go to the second-go around because we have other Council members that want to be recognized.

Councilman Clarke

Madam President, I've learned if the bell doesn't ring, you keep talking.

Council President Verna

I know. The bell did go off. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you, Madam President. Mr. Crawford, is the Tax Reform 368 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Commission recommending that we raise real estate tax rates?

Mr. Crawford

No, sir.

Councilman Kenney

Okay. And the only way real estate tax rates go up, as I understand it in this City, is that the City Council of Philadelphia raises those rates; is that correct?

Mr. Crawford

That's my understanding, yes.

Councilman Kenney

So the only increase in property tax revenues as a result of --

Council President Verna

Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter for a point of information.

Councilman Nutter

I'd only answer that, Councilman, the taxes of residents in real estate have gone up every year since we've been here.

Councilman Kenney

I understand.

Councilman Nutter

We haven't changed the rates.

Councilman Kenney

We're talking 369 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget about rates.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Council President Verna

Rates.

Councilman Kenney

Just on the rate issue, the Reform Commission is not recommending we raise real estate tax rates. And the only way that real estate tax rates get raised is by us raising them. It's a safe statement.

Mr. Crawford

That's --

Councilman Kenney

So the increase -- The increase in potential property tax revenues comes about as a result of the increase in property values.

Mr. Crawford

An increase in wealth, yes.

Councilman Kenney

An increase in property values. And in the event that an increase in property values skyrocket in this City, we do have the ability under state Constitutional amendment that was passed... God, I guess back in 1983, '84, to give relief, if we want to, if we need to, to 370 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget long-term owners like you describe who don't have income or don't -- aren't working and getting the benefit of the wage tax reductions and don't own businesses. We have the authority, and hopefully at the time the capacity, through a revival in our private sector economy, to give those kind of tax relief to long-term residents who may be experiencing astronomical rises in their real estate taxes -- not their rates, the value of their homes, in the event we need to protect them. So, if I were to pass or we were to pass these rates, these 12 or 13 recommendations, and I'm the average homeowner in the City, do I have to be fearful of losing my home as a result of increased real estate taxes?

Mr. Crawford

No. 22

Councilman Kenney

I get the impression that somehow there's this belief out there, this view out there, that somehow this passage of these bills, 371 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget reducing wage and business taxes, are going to drive people to the poorhouse, and they're going to have to sell their homes because they can't pay their real estate taxes. I don't think that's -- that's... I don't think it's accurate, and I don't think it's a fair characterization. Because we've had, as Councilman Nutter said, increases in property taxes as a result of increase in assessments and increase in property value, even in an economy here in Philadelphia where we're losing jobs and residents. If -- If -- If theoretically we pass this, and property tax values -- property tax -- property values go up and taxes go up as a result of that, it would be great to have additional job growth and residential retention and attraction in addition to the increase in property values, which all could be accomplished, hopefully, and I think reasonably, with the passage of these reform recommendations. Is that a misstatement? 372 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Crawford

I agree. I agree.

Councilman Kenney

Secondly, if I'm -- Theoretically, if I'm an 800 -- If I'm a C.E.O. of an 800-person company in Cleveland, and I'm looking to move to the Philadelphia region -- it's one of the regions I'm examining -- what are some of the issues in my due diligence would I examine to determine whether or not it makes sense for me to bring those 800 jobs to the Philadelphia region or in any region?

Mr. Crawford

Well, there are a number of considerations. I think you would be interested in the work force that was available in the area, the area broadly defined. It wouldn't have to be the City of Philadelphia.

Councilman Kenney

No. I'm talking about the region.

Mr. Crawford

But the work force in the region. Because it's well known that workers move across the county lines. Most businesses would be thinking 373 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget about where the customers were. Often businesses want to be close to their customers. They would be thinking about a variety of lifestyle issues, about where people want to live; and they would be thinking about -- In fact, they'd have a fiduciary responsibility to think about the impact on their tax liabilities associated with choosing one venue over another. It's not... You know, it's not the only consideration that would come up in location. But as -- as I was saying earlier, once you get -- once you get a firm interested in the area, then the choice of the location within the area...

Councilman Kenney

My question -- My question is what -- Philadelphia -- Based on those set of -- those set of standards or criteria, the Philadelphia region fares pretty well, I would think, as a region.

Councilman Kenney

When it comes to 374 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget the consideration of moving that Cleveland firm to Philadelphia with 800 employees. Is that a fair statement?

Mr. Crawford

I think that's fair, yes.

Councilman Kenney

Now, within the region, what sets Philadelphia apart from that pretty attractive, positive region? What happens to Philadelphia when that view starts to get microscoped down to the specific region, and making a choice between Gloucester, Burlington, Montgomery, Chester, Delaware or Bucks and Philadelphia Counties? What happens to Philadelphia in that analysis?

Mr. Crawford

As the microscope focuses, the tax differences get larger and more important, because that's an important dimension in which there really are differences across the region.

Councilman Kenney

So in addition to trying to scrimp, and fight, and push and save the companies that we have here already, with varying degrees of innovative 375 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget tax incentives, changing our tax situation and status in Philadelphia would take all the need for that TIF, KOZ, KOIZ, KOEZs, whatever the letters are, would diminish the need for that, and would also put us on a better level playing field with the five or six or seven county SMSA around us. Is that safe?

Mr. Crawford

I agree with that, yes.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm intrigued by some of the questions that have been raised. And I wanted to just put a couple things on the record. Councilman Clarke is absolutely correct, that the City has fared well with regard to current... many large current businesses that are in the City. 376 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget We read press stories about some of the retention efforts. I think he's also right. We don't know why many of the companies decided to do what they have done, although we're very happy about it. I think that, at least as members of the City Council, if not the general public, should, though, not have to rely on possibly be a fly on the wall when it comes to the utilization of public tax dollars, and have a better sense of just what the incentives are that are being put on the table. We did learn the other week that at least one company, the City was prepared to renovate their offices which is an interesting incentive to offer. But we actually don't know what incentives were put on the table. But as happy as we could be or should be about retaining the companies that we have, in recent times I don't recall hearing about any new companies coming, and any that have in the past 377 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget couple years have also sought significant relief from our overburdening tax structure here in Philadelphia. And so we end up usually buying the business to come into the City. We've also had -- And it was mentioned a couple times by different people. This Council has approved in excess of some odd tax 10 increment financing districts which, again, 11 are an effort to deal with an 12 out-of-control tax structure. 13 Even with that tool available to us, 14 only ten of them have actually come to 15 fruition. We have, I think as Councilman 16 Kenney mentioned, Keystone Opportunity 17 Zones. 18 What are they about? They are 19 relief from an overburdened tax system. 20 Keystone Opportunity Improvement Zones. 21 Same thing. 22 And I guess if our property tax 23 situation was as bad as we might suggest 24 that it is or that the counties around us 25 have, then I guess the Governor's tax 378 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget reform package would have those dollars coming for property tax relief, as opposed to wage tax relief which is what it's for. And I assume that we would like to utilize those dollars for that purpose. So, with regard to the other concern about the property tax situation, I think Councilman Kenny has laid that out. It's not like just because values go up, there is an automatic requirement that there be some X percentage increase or some exorbitant increase in a resident's tax. As long as this Council is in business, it has the right to determine rates, and pretty much on an annual basis decides how much real estate tax revenue we're going to raise from the citizens of this City. So, I'm just left, I guess, to suggest that all of these factors are within our jurisdiction and control. But every step along the way, every complaint that has been made, especially from business if not from residents, does have 379 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget to do with the tax issue here in Philadelphia. There's no other City, I believe, or county in this Commonwealth that has a wage tax, none. Most of them do have property tax systems that are somewhat spiraling out of control which is why they've been demanding property tax relief, while at the same time they eat our lunch on a pretty regular basis for the landing of new businesses who want to be near Philadelphia, but many of which don't necessarily want to be in Philadelphia because they can't make the numbers work for them. So, we can continue to try to do tax increment financing. We can continue to try to identify even downtown locations that are, quote unquote, blighted, in the heart of Center City. We can try to do any set of programs, ideas and schemes that we like.

Councilman Nutter

We cannot escape the fact that our tax structure is out of control, the City is 380 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget overburdened with it. And until we have a complete overhaul of our tax system, it may not matter that much that we have to negotiate these deals on a deal-by-deal basis, as opposed to leveling, to the extent that we can, the playing field, managing through the tougher times, as recommended by both the Tax Reform Commission and the 21st Century Review Forum. No one has ever said that there won't be challenges with this; but, you know, that's why we've the jobs that we have. And that's the challenge of leadership in being in public service. I just wanted to put those comments and thoughts on the record. We have to do something. And I think rather than trying to pretty much scare people to death about it, if we actually came up with some ideas and some programs that were of a longer time horizon, then in the next few months or even the next couple years, the City might 381 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget actually work its way out of a very bad situation that's been going on for some time. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. Madam President, I just wanted to get a little clarity on where I am. I don't believe that we can continue to do things the same forever, right. I clearly understand the problems associated with creating new jobs and the problems associated with maintaining jobs. And I understand the problems associated with the perception of the School District, and other issues; and crime, the safety and violence in our communities. We have to do a lot of things differently. All right? But my discussion at this point with this particular witness is centered on a 382 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget recommendation by the Tax Reform Commission. And my colleagues had suggested that there is no requirement or we're not obligated to do anything. And that may, in fact, be true. But the reality is and the recommendation by the Tax Reform Commission, the budget-based property taxation recommendation is that it says the Mayor and City Council to determine annual real estate tax rates... Let me start from the beginning. The Commission recommends creating a system of budget-based property taxation by legislatively obligating the Mayor and City Council to determine all annual real estate taxes, rates, after setting the budget and reviewing assessments, thereby maintaining a stable revenue stream under the control of local government. Now, that tells me that on the budget process, if we're putting together a budget, with all of the various sources and 383 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget categories, if there's a shortfall in revenues associated with business tax and wage tax, then it has to be made up by the real estate tax.

Council President Verna

Excuse me, Mr. Crawford. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Councilman Clarke, I appreciate your concern about that particular provision. I think, as you well know, the Tax Reform Commission put together their report. Their recommendations are in a document. I introduced these bills. I asked them to give me their bills on a disk. I didn't change a word, a comma, or a period. But I think you also know from Monday's hearing, notwithstanding my sponsorship of the legislation, I asked... And I think both of us asked similar questions on Monday. And I think I shared with you that I 384 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget have my own concerns about that. And probably the best way to deal with that particular issue, notwithstanding the Tax Reform Commission recommendations which, you know, we're also not automatically required to adopt, is that that particular provision should more than likely be amended, so as to not have this last amount of money to fill a budget gap automatically determined by almost fiat of a piece of legislation that says, you fill the gap automatically with real estate taxes, as opposed to, I think, a more affirmative process that is similar to what we have now, that says if you want to derive $438 million worth of real estate tax, which may or may not be the number in the current budget, but it's up in that neighborhood, then once you know what your total assessments are, you determine what your tax rate is based on how much money you're trying to generate, which is what most municipalities do. So, I mean, I'll be the first to 385 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget say, as I've said publicly, there are some who believe that, you know, somehow you have to be for all 13. I don't support that proposition. That is a dereliction of my duty as a member of City Council. And I don't necessarily believe that every individual component of each of the TRC bills has to be followed as if it's dictated to us. That's one way of doing it. I believe, actually, I have another way. But I didn't write the bill. So I just wanted to at least get that on the record, that we're probably in agreement on that particular issue.

Mr. Crawford

Madam President --

Council President Verna

Councilman -- Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Crawford. Go ahead.

Mr. Crawford

Just to respond to Councilman's question, I think you're absolutely right about how that would work. And I want to -- I want to point out that the tax subcommittee of the 21st Century 386 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Review Forum did not endorse that recommendation. That was the one out of 28 that we said no. The tax --

Councilman Nutter

One out of 28.

Mr. Crawford

-- subcommittee of the 21st Century Review Forum, which reviews --

Councilman Clarke

Which was a part of?

Mr. Crawford

The Mayor's Philadelphia 21st Century Review Forum.

Councilman Clarke

What does that have to do with the Tax Reform Commission?

Mr. Crawford

We were charged with reviewing the work of the Tax Reform Commission.

Councilman Clarke

Okay.

Mr. Crawford

And I sat on that tax subcommittee. And that committee voted four to one against recommendation seven --

Councilman Clarke

So --

Mr. Crawford

-- and I was one of the four.

Councilman Clarke

So. 387 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Crawford

So if you're looking for somebody to defend that, you don't look -- don't look to me because I voted against it. The tax subcommittee endorsed all of the recommendations of the Tax Reform Commission except that one.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. So, who are you... Because I know you're the Council's consultant. Now, who's consultant are you --

Mr. Crawford

I am --

Councilman Clarke

-- at the witness table?

Mr. Crawford

I am Council's consultant. E-Consult has been retained to advise City Council, and there's a --

Councilman Clarke

So you're testifying -- Okay.

Mr. Crawford

Before that we worked on tax policy with the Controller's Office. We provided support to the Tax Reform Commission. And then I personally was appointed by the Mayor to serve on the tax 388 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget subcommittee of the program evaluation committee of the 21st Century Forum Review.

Councilman Clarke

All right.

Mr. Crawford

And we were charged with looking at what the Tax Reform Commission had done and offering our opinions.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. I mean, because I was --

Mr. Crawford

And --

Councilman Clarke

I was talking to -- Okay.

Mr. Crawford

So I --

Mr. Crawford

That's fine.

Mr. Crawford

So when I was testifying Monday, I -- I -- I pointed out that the -- that that tax subcommittee endorsed 27 of the 28. The one we voted against 4 to -- and I'm with the -- is 21 the one that concerns you. 22

Councilman Clarke

Okay. Well -- 23

Mr. Crawford

That you were just 24 talking -- 25

Councilman Clarke

-- that's 389 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget wonderful.

Mr. Crawford

The one that you were 4 just talking about.

Councilman Clarke

That's one of the ones --

Mr. Crawford

Excuse me.

Councilman Clarke

-- that concerned me.

Mr. Crawford

I didn't mean to give an exhaustive list of your concerns, but --

Councilman Clarke

Okay.

Mr. Crawford

-- but that one is one that we did not support.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. Just wanted to be clear. In Volume III in the chart, , it talks about potential increases in revenue, and it talks about tax revenue -- wage tax revenue change, gross receipts revenue change, and property tax revenue change. In the chart, earlier you referenced the potential slow growth in revenue change as a result of the proposed -- And I know 390 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget you're now telling me that you don't recommend certain aspects of the budget-based system. In year five there is... potential -- Let's see. in first year, 7 24, 42, 67, 92. Do you attribute that 92 8 meaning a revenue change solely to a 9 decrease in values or do you attribute it 10 to increase in changing rates? 11

Mr. Crawford

You're referring to the property tax revenue change?

Councilman Clarke

Yes.

Mr. Crawford

Yeah. That is entirely attributable to increases in value and increases in new real estate development. It is -- It is based on the assumption that the effective property tax rate remains where it is today.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. So the increased value...

Mr. Crawford

So five years out, because of the stimulative effects of all these tax changes, you've got the existing real estate is more valuable and there 391 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget should be additional real estate development, so that the real estate tax base will have grown to the point where, with the current effective tax rate, you can realize an increase of $92 million in --

Councilman Clarke

So, do you have a sense -- And I know this is some level of detail -- of what percentage will be -- can be attributed to new development, and what percentage can be attributed to existing real estate?

Mr. Crawford

No, I can't. The data... I'm not aware that the data exists that would allow you to break that out. I mean, what we -- what we -- This is based on our analysis offer the history of tax rates, and the total value of the real estate base. And we don't have data to tell us whether it's -- whether it's new development or increased value.

Councilman Clarke

So --

Mr. Crawford

So, I don't see a way 392 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget that that could be done. Certainly there's no way it could be done easily.

Councilman Clarke

So how could you get to the number?

Mr. Crawford

We get the total. We get the --

Councilman Clarke

Well, how do you get the total if you don't know the pieces?

Mr. Crawford

Because we have historical data on the total. We have historical data on the total value of real estate in the City of Philadelphia. And we know over time how that --

Councilman Clarke

So is it your assumption that the growth in new construction and the increased values of existing property get you to this number?

Mr. Crawford

That's right.

Councilman Clarke

So your assumption is that the growth in new construction, new properties; therefore, new real estate revenue, will be similar over the next five years, and --

Mr. Crawford

Yeah. 393 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Clarke

-- I mean, as far as --

Mr. Crawford

We really don't know the mix. Part of it -- Part of it is going to be an increase in value of the stock that's there today, and part of it is going to be new -- new -- new development. And -- and I don't see a way -- I'll think about whether I can come up with a way, but I don't see a way to break that out. The problem is, we don't really have a good history that would allow you to look at those two components.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. I'm just -- You know, you have a number here.

Councilman Clarke

You know, margin of success --

Mr. Crawford

Let -- Let -- Let -- Let me try to back up.

Councilman Clarke

Substantial --

Mr. Crawford

Let me back up just a minute, if I could.

Councilman Clarke

All right. 394 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Crawford

And maybe I can clarify. What we have is historical data that goes back over decades on the total value of real estate in Philadelphia. That's the property tax base.

Councilman Clarke

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Crawford

We know how that has grown over time. We also know how property tax rates and wage tax rates and business tax rates have changed over time. Okay? Well, the starting point of all our calculations is to look back at the history and get a feel for how the property tax base changes when tax rates change, how they've changed in the past. When tax rates have changed property, property tax rates have -- property -- the property tax base has changed. By looking at that pattern over time --

Councilman Clarke

Excuse me. Not to -- What about interest rates? Do you think that has any effect on...

Mr. Crawford

Interest rates are 395 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget not likely to have an impact on this analysis because, as I explained earlier in my initial testimony, the... we've done all of our analysis looking at Philadelphia's share. So, we have looked at the value of Philadelphia real estate as a total -- as a percentage of national real estate. To the extent that interest rates are going to change the value of real estate, they're going to -- they're likely to change them in Philadelphia pretty much the same way they changed them anywhere else in the country. So that Philadelphia's share of real estate value should not move much at all in response to changes in interest rates. That's one of many issues that --

Councilman Clarke

But that --

Mr. Crawford

-- could have complicated our analysis.

Councilman Clarke

The process --

Mr. Crawford

-- that we avoided --

Councilman Clarke

My question is -- 396 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Crawford

-- looking at shares.

Councilman Clarke

Yeah, but my question... And if I didn't communicate it to you correctly, it centers more around the increased revenue that you project. So, over the last couple of years interest rates dropped. We got, as it was quoted in some document somewhere, a windfall to the City because of increased values and subsequently increased tax bills. Does that play into this at all or are you not looking at --

Mr. Crawford

It doesn't --

Councilman Clarke

-- interest rates --

Mr. Crawford

-- because at the very first step we say, we're not looking to look directly at the value of Philadelphia's property. What we're going to do is look at that --

Councilman Clarke

As a --

Mr. Crawford

-- as a percentage of national. So, anything that would affect 397 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget values nationally, like interest rates, is washed out of the analysis, which is a good thing because we're trying to isolate the effect of Philadelphia's taxes on its share of real estate. So things like interest rates are not going to contaminate this analysis.

Councilman Clarke

So you -- So when you've done your -- When you did your analysis, you did it solely on prior years. And I know -- I think a member from your company was here Monday --

Mr. Crawford

Yeah, I was here --

Councilman Clarke

-- and talked about 50 years --

Mr. Crawford

Yes --

Councilman Clarke

I mean, talked about the --

Mr. Crawford

-- I was here Monday.

Councilman Clarke

I mean --

Mr. Crawford

Yeah, it's roughly 50 years.

Councilman Clarke

Is that what you're talking about? 398 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Crawford

Yes. Yes.

Councilman Clarke

So, over the last ten years, as you -- as you analyze the real estate taxes in Philadelphia, does that get you to this projection? I mean, did we have a similar increase in real estate revenues over the last period of years that --

Mr. Crawford

I would have to go -- I would have to go look at the -- I would have to go look at the data. We did not focus on... We did not focus an analysis just on the last ten years, so I'd have to look at the data to answer what I think you're asking me, which is -- is there something different about the last --

Councilman Clarke

Yeah. I'm trying to --

Mr. Crawford

-- ten years --

Councilman Clarke

Right. Or the point --

Mr. Crawford

-- that would lead you to --

Councilman Clarke

-- I'm trying to 399 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget get a --

Mr. Crawford

-- a different conclusion.

Councilman Clarke

-- sense for where you get the 92 million projection. And you said you've done an analysis of the history -- of the history of the real estate --

Mr. Crawford

We've got a long history of --

Councilman Clarke

-- that we have -- you have similar increases in real estate --

Mr. Crawford

Yeah. Part of it -- Part of it... Of course, we're talking about going the other direction. We have a... To the extent we have a history of changes in tax rates, it's mainly been increases in wage taxes and business taxes. So, we look at how values go down when tax rates go up. Then what we do is flip that over and say, okay, now if we go back down to lower rates -- 400 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Clarke

So... Okay. Now --

Mr. Crawford

-- then the income is --

Councilman Clarke

-- there's another equation. It's not really the history of what --

Mr. Crawford

No; it is the history.

Councilman Clarke

-- you've done.

Mr. Crawford

It -- It -- It's -- It's what goes up must come down. There's very good reason to believe that the patterns that you see as -- as tax rates are going up are very likely to be undone as tax rates come down. It's -- It's the same economics. It's just --

Councilman Clarke

All right.

Mr. Crawford

It's just in another direction.

Council President Verna

Mr. Crawford...

Councilman Clarke

I'm saying, that just adds another level of speculation. I 401 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget mean, earlier you said you looked at the history of Philadelphia. And I assumed that it was -- you know, you got this number based on the increase in property values over some period of time. But then you just assumed that over the next five years you'd have similar growth. but now you're saying it's based on the potential of the decrease in wage and business taxes, and then subsequent effect on the real estate taxes.

Mr. Crawford

That's right.

Councilman Clarke

So that's another level of speculation.

Mr. Crawford

That's -- That's -- Well --

Councilman Clarke

I mean, that's not --

Mr. Crawford

I wouldn't characterize it as speculation.

Councilman Clarke

Could be great speculation, possibly; but I'm saying --

Mr. Crawford

The... 402 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Clarke

-- speculative to some degree.

Mr. Crawford

You know, you've got a 50-year history of tax rates and property values. And during that period there is lots of variation in tax rates and lots of variation in property values. The standard approach to those kinds of problems is to look at those patterns and try to use those patterns to make projections into the future.

Councilman Clarke

Okay.

Council President Verna

Mr. Crawford, would you make yourself available to any and all Council members who have questions?

Mr. Crawford

Yes, Madam President. We'd be happy to do that.

Council President Verna

You will be available?

Mr. Crawford

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Do you know how to contact Mr. Crawford, Councilman? 403 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Clarke

Madam President, I have no problem with that, but sometimes, you know, it's better --

Council President Verna

One question leaves --

Councilman Clarke

-- when you have it in public debate.

Council President Verna

I know. I understand.

Councilman Clarke

I'm not suggesting that Mr. Crawford would give me a different answer in a private meeting, but sometimes that discussion needs to be in the public debate.

Council President Verna

All right. We just have people that have been waiting here.

Mr. Crawford

Madam President, my phone number is at the bottom of my testimony, and I welcome phone calls from any members.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Councilman Nutter, do you have any further questions? 404 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

No, I don't. Actually, I think there are some community members who wanted to get on.

Council President Verna

Yes.

Councilman Nutter

And I was going to recommend them.

Council President Verna

Any other questions or comments for Mr. Crawford? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Mr. Crawford, thank you very much. We appreciate your testimony.

Mr. Crawford

My pleasure.

Council President Verna

East Mount Airy neighbors. We have a commitment that they will all come up to the table. We will have one spokesperson. And I am told that they will be very brief. Good evening. Thank you so much for your patience. I know that you've been here for quite a while, and we appreciate your staying. Identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. 405 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Jordan

Yes. Good afternoon, Council President Verna and City Council members here today. My name is Aldustus Jordan. I'm testifying today with my fiance Keisha Hegamin, and on behalf of the East Mount Airy Association of Neighbors. Really, briefly, for the record, I want to give folks the opportunity, since they came out on this hot day and waited for several hours, to just briefly introduce themselves, and then I'll move forward with my prepared testimony.

Ms. Evans

Elvira Evans, President of Pleasant Playground Advisory Council.

Mr. Sauders

Good afternoon. My name is Gerald Sauders.

Council President Verna

Good afternoon.

Mr. Sauders

I'm a resident of Mount Airy, currently a university student and athlete, holder of City record for pole vault, and got my start in the Philadelphia recreation system. 406 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Ms. Coleman

Good afternoon. My name is Jill Ann Coleman, and I represent five generations and over 40 years in East and West Mount Airy.

Council President Verna

Welcome.

Mr. Incognito

Howdy. I'm Lou Incognito. We're parents of five, grandparents of eight. Happen to be second vice president of East Mount Airy Neighbors, and we say, I say, don't cut business taxes. You'll hurt our City.

Mr. Jordan

Okay. The closing of the Pleasant Recreation Center and others like it across the City raises grave concerns about the prospects of raising a family in our community. And it sends a message that Philadelphia is not fully committed to encouraging young families like Keisha and I to remain in the City and raise our children. Many of us live a few blocks away from Pleasant Playground and Recreation 407 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Center. Every day we walk or drive past and see fathers teaching their children how to play baseball, dozens of young men playing basketball. At certain times of the year we can hear bands and drill teams practicing. We cannot imagine a day when these sights and sounds are no longer part of our neighborhood. The Pleasant Playground is the only recreation center with a pool and tennis court in East Mount Airy. For decades children and families have relied on the services at the center, to ensure that the young people of Mount Airy have the critical social and educational outlets necessary for them to grow into healthy young adults. For a City and an Administration that boasts of bold initiatives for transforming neighborhoods and ensuring safe streets, the proposed closing of recreation centers is simply unacceptable. The bottom line is, if this City is willing to invest $5 million in the 408 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Convention Center, $1 million for the Chamber of Commerce, and $6.8 million for the maintenance and upkeep of a sports stadium, then it can find the same amount of money for the maintenance and upkeep of the recreation centers that support our City's young people. (Applause.)

Mr. Jordan

In a year when the City is healing from dozens of violent young deaths and a few short weeks since thousands came together to March in North Philadelphia to renew its commitment to our young children, it is disheartening that this Administration would consider eliminating critical resources that provide our youth with a safe and healthy environment to grow and thrive. In closing, we strongly urge the City to reconsider closing of Pleasant Playground and the dozens of others across the City that provide a vital service to our children and families. And for the record... For the 409 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget record -- I believe you have them already, Council President, we have a petition.

Council President Verna

Petitions?

Mr. Jordan

More than 1,000 residents within the East Mount Airy community, that is standing strong in saying that we need to invest in our young people, and invest in our recreation centers, and invest in youth development here in the City of Philadelphia. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Councilwoman Miller, do you have copies of the petition?

Councilwoman Miller

Yes, I do. I have copies here of the petition.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Councilwoman Miller

I'd like to just take this opportunity to thank the residents of East Mount Airy and the surrounding area for coming in, and to express their opinion in opposition on the closing of Pleasant Playground. And we're all in the same page. We 410 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget don't all -- We also don't believe Pleasant Playground should be closed. There are activities going on there. We've done a lot of work and have put money into Pleasant Playground. And I'd like to say that we will do everything we can to keep Pleasant Playground open. Thank you.

Mr. Jordan

Thank you. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Thank you. Thank you all for your patience. You were very patient waiting. Is Mr. Schwartz in the room? (No response.) What I would like to do now... I noticed that we have -- You've been waiting practically all day. Are you going to be testifying on the Rizzo Skating Rink? Are you going to be testifying with this group? Can I ask everybody from the Rizzo Skating Rink to come up before Mr. Schwartz because the children have been very 411 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget patient. And I think it would be nice if they came up to the witness table. Please approach the witness table. Mr. Schwartz, I was wondering if you were in the room. I would just like to hear from the children first.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Good evening. Do you all play hockey? (A number of children nod their heads in the affirmative.)

Council President Verna

You do? What rink do you belong to? A NUMBER OF CHILDREN: Rizzo.

Council President Verna

Rizzo.

Council President Verna

How often do you play? (Unidentified children speaking away from the microphone, not reportable.)

Council President Verna

I beg your pardon? Okay. Who's going to testify? Who's going to testify? Would you please take a seat, identify yourself for the 412 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget record, and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Pinto

I'm Angelo Pinto. I'm the President of the Rizzo Rink Advisory Council. Personally I've been there over 7 years. We have hockey programs, ice hockey 8 programs in the winter, roller hockey in 9 the summer. 10 Hundreds of kids go through our 11 rink. The City plans to close the rink in 12 efforts to balance the physical budget. 13 Rizzo Rink has done an outstanding 14 job in our community. We've come to... 15 We've come to learn -- Wait a minute -- 16 Hundreds of children have come to learn... 17 I can't even read my own handwriting any more. It has come to our attention at Rizzo Rink Advisory Council that our rink may be closed. The City plans to close the rink in efforts to balance the physical budget. Rizzo Rink has done an outstanding job in our community. Hundreds of children 413 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget have come to learn how to ice skate and play hockey. We are proud of our facility. We are equally proud of the staff and are committed volunteers. We have over 50 volunteers that volunteer at Rizzo Rink every year. Our facility is very safe. It is a place where parents take the children to have affordable time on the ice. Many rinks in the suburbs are very expensive. The ice hockey programs in particular can cost upwards of a thousand dollars. We skate at Rizzo Rink for pennies on the dollar, compared to suburb rinks. At Rizzo Rink, we participate in our hockey programs. The ice hockey programs at Rizzo are run solely by volunteers. Inner city children need a safe, affordable place. They need to know where it is safe. Our streets have become entirely too violent. Rizzo Rink is not only an ice 414 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget skating facility. We operate year around. We have a thriving spring, summer roller hockey leagues for children of all ages. We regularly compete in City-wide roller hockey tournaments. Sometimes we even win. Our very successful summer camp also provides swimming at Hanlon Pool which is right around the corner, another facility that we use. We can not afford to lose many more children to violence. Closing recreation centers are not the answer. Please support us in our effort to keep Rizzo Rink from closing by signing the attached petition. And Council members, you are all residents of Philadelphia. If you would like to sign our petition, I'm pretty sure we can find a pen.

Council President Verna

I'm sure that Councilman Kenney would like to be the first one because I know that he is to take his son -- 415 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Kenney

I got it already. I signed it already.

Council President Verna

Oh, you already signed. He needs to be the first one. Thank you.

Mr. Pinto

We had over --

Council President Verna

I know they always used to say --

Mr. Pinto

-- thousand signatures on petitions.

Council President Verna

Oh, my.

Mr. Pinto

Okay. We weren't playing around. Rizzo Rink will not go quietly.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Mr. Pinto

We'll come back as many times as we have to.

Council President Verna

Angelo, you were very good. Thank you. And I think it's wonderful that the children came in. Is there a spokesman from the children's group? Can we hear from one of them, please. Put your signs down, please. Only one, please. 416 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget DEBBY: My name is Debby. And I take ice skating lessons there. And I've been playing there for three years, and... And I disagree with this because what's more important, kids or money. Because lots of kids take lessons there. And what if the Mayor had a favorite thing to do and someone stopped it from happening. He would be really sad.

Council President Verna

I don't believe you recognized yourself. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

I don't believe you recognized yourself for the record. What is your name, dear? UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: My name is --

Council President Verna

No, no. 19 (Laughter.)

Council President

I said who is that person? DEBBY: Debby.

Council President Verna

Debby, how old are you? DEBBY: Seven. 417 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Council President Verna

And how many years have you been taking ice hockey lessons? DEBBY: Three.

Council President Verna

Three years. DEBBY: Hockey would be five.

Council President Verna

Oh, that's wonderful. Thank you all so much for coming in. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam President. And good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for coming out today. I don't know if you were here earlier when I spoke about some of the recreation facilities in my District when the other group was in earlier today. I found out late Friday via phone call that the Rizzo Rink is on the new list, if you will, of potential recreation facilities that are slated for closure. I have not seen that list. 418 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget If there is a list, it will be the third one that I've seen in the last -- will have seen in the last three or four weeks. So, I don't know where this came from or how it got there. There are a number of facilities I said I would fight to the death to make sure that they don't close. Rizzo is obviously one of those facilities. My dear friend and colleague, Councilman Kenney, when I came to Council in 1996, really encouraged me to put extra additional activity fund dollars into the facility because... I knew it was there. Drive by it. It's part of my neighborhood, but I never really went into the facility to see it in operation. This is a perfect example of a recreation facility that not only draws people from all over the community and educates children and gets them off the street, but it has a high degree of corporate sponsorship. There are many businesses in and around the South 419 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Philadelphia community that put significant funds into the facility every year, in addition to what we do as a City to keep this facility open. And again, I know Councilman Kenney probably won't want to say it, but the 10,000 kids... He's one of the big kids that is part of that facility. He has skated there, and he's been an instructor. I don't know if you still are, Jimmy. Jimmy is still an instructor. He won't be the one to say it, but I'll say it for him. He goes down there and teaches kids how to skate, ice skate. And he offered me to go down there. I'm too old for that. I won't even attempt it any more. But that's the kind of facility that we're talking about. We have volunteers from all over. We even have an elected official who takes the time, his time. And we all know as elected officials we don't have much free time for ourselves. But he takes the time to go down there and put his 420 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget energy and resources into that facility, because he knows it's the right thing to do, and he's helping kids out. So, I don't know, again, how this ever got on the list. It's certainly nothing that's going to stay on the list, if I have anything to say about it. And Councilwoman Verna, whose District is across Broad Street, I'm sure a number of people from her facility use it, this Rizzo facility as well. So, we're all in it together. Thank you for coming out. And as you said, Angelo, they will hear our voices loud and clear. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. (Cheers and applause.)

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Councilman DiCicco, for your comments, and thank you for all your support that you've given to the rink over the years, both from 421 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget the activities fund and the capital fund, and all of the other funds that you've been successful, along with other elected officials in South Philadelphia in helping this rink. These comments that I'm going to make are really applicable to not only Rizzo but the Scanlon and Simons, and to Cobbs Creek and to Tarkin, and all the City rinks altogether. I've been associated with Rizzo for about ten years. I've coached there for eight, coached my son through his years. He has since gone on to high school. He plays high school hockey. And I felt a compulsion, a need to stay there and continue coaching because it is one of the few things that I do associated with this job that's actually fun and rewarding. It's obviously a lot more rewarding than it is today. But the comments about the rink are important because the City provides very little, with the exception of its dedicated 422 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget staff, in the way of money to run these rinks. The money that's raised to keep these rinks open, to keep these rinks extended hours, to buy equipment -- And let me tell you something: Hockey is perhaps one of the most expensive sports that anyone can play. A lot of times the issue of playing hockey or not playing hockey has to do with the availability of equipment. Rizzo Rink, along with all of those other rinks I mentioned, Cobbs Creek and the others, provide the equipment to their kids because they raised money to make sure that no kid is turned away. In the event that the small amount of money that's paid for a hockey program or a figure skating program or a roller hockey program cannot be paid by the parents, the Advisory Council through their hard work in selling concessions and in their having fund raisers and in beating up elected officials for more money, and by beating up the business community for 423 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget money, they don't turn any kid away. And one of the finest things I've seen, in relationship to neighborhood and race relations in this City, have to do with the interaction of those rinks in West Philadelphia in Councilman Blackwell's District; Simon... I think is up in Councilwoman Tasco's District; Scanlon... I'm not sure exactly whose District it's in. UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Tarkin.

Councilman Kenney

Tarkin. When we have our kids of different ethnic and racial backgrounds participate in a sport that African Americans have been traditionally excluded from because of cost and because of culture, because of experience and not having access to those kind of programs, and we can have kids from Cobbs Creek come down and play kids from 2nd Street and South Philadelphia and have the opposite happen out in West Philadelphia and Northwest Philadelphia, the fact that anyone in the Recreation 424 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Department or in this Administration would consider closing these places is insane. The small amount of money it's going to save -- because the employees there, they're going to go get assigned somewhere else. So we're not saving personnel costs. What we are ruining and what we are losing are people who go down there like the Avalons and work those concession stands at 6 o'clock on a Saturday morning through the entire winter, and turn that money over to that program, that extends the rink hours, that buys equipment for kids, and that pays the fees for kids who can afford to participate in the sport. I can't imagine why anyone would have considered shutting these down and closing off this opportunity for neighborhood interaction, for kids to play a sport in the winter. You know, there's not a lot of sports you can play in the winter. The outdoor basketball courts are gone. the athletic fields are frozen. There's no 425 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget baseball. There's basketball and there's ice hockey. And if we can expand the opportunity for kids in our City throughout the entire City to play this sport and to interact with each other, we are being so penny wise and pound foolish to close these places down. So I think we need to be committed to putting these programs back. And let me tell you something: They want to find a place to cut, go look at the rampant overtime in this government, go look at the bad investments in the pension fund that's caused us to have to dip into the General Fund to make sure our pension funds are fully funded, and all the other waste and abuse that goes on in this City, and pay to play, on top of it, that adds to cost of contracts when we do no-bid contracts in this City, I think you'll find the money to put all this back and do tax reform, too. Thank you, Madam President. 426 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget (Applause.)

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Madam President. My colleague and I don't always agree on everything, but I certainly appreciate his involvement in the Laura Simms Skate House in Cobbs Creek Park over the years. And certainly a special greeting to the Sharpe family, and a thank you to all of you for coming in. Certainly many who have been around here a long time will remember Lucien Blackwell arguing year after year about the ice rink. And then when Rizzo was funded, he said, well, I'll take the money that Rizzo Rink got, because we were in the plans. And it was pushed back. And obviously both are built and have been for some time. And in fact, the impetus for the rink in Cobbs Creek passed, and we renamed -- this Council renamed it after 427 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Laura Simms. And Lucien used to brag that the Flyers said it was the best in the region, not that we were arguing which rink is the best. But certainly we absolutely support the statements here, that our rinks and rec centers need to be exempted from cuts, and that they're very, very, very important to our communities, and that when we sacrifice, we have to draw the line someplace. Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes --

Councilman Kenney

Point of information.

Council President Verna

Point of information. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

I won't argue as to what programs are the best, but I will admit that the Laura Simms Skate House has 428 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget the biggest and best ice surface of all the rinks in the City. Even our rink surface is a little small, but the hardest ice in the City is in West Philadelphia.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Excuse me.

Councilman Rizzo

Madam Chair, I'd like to also echo --

Council President Verna

Excuse me, Councilman Rizzo. There's a point of information on the floor. The Chair recognizes Councilman Mariano.

Councilman Mariano

I don't agree with Councilman Kenney on very much, but I do agree with him on this issue. Scanlon is in my District, Councilman. Scanlon won't get closed. Tarkin won't get closed because Councilman Tasco shares with me. I was listening to you upstairs. I 429 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget do agree with the Councilman. I just wanted him to know. We're all going fight to keep these ice rinks open. (Cheers and applause.)

Council President Verna

We agree on something; wonderful. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I want to echo my support for the recreation program. Specifically, since we have our friends from the Rizzo Rink here, I want to let them know that I'm going to join Councilman Kenney and every other member of Council in expressing my support, that this does not happen to this facility. It's named after my grandfather, Ralph Rizzo. A lot of people aren't aware of that, but... (Applause.)

Councilman Rizzo

But I had an opportunity on so many occasions, because 430 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget it had my family name, to go to the facility and visit. I was so impressed. Until you go and see what activity is there, President Verna, when I went to visit, I thought I was at the Spectrum. I thought I was at a professional ice skating palace, it was so beautiful and well maintained. And that wasn't happening by accident, that maintenance. And I knew that there was a lot of -- lot of effort from the community, and a lot of effort from the people that work there. So again, I just want to echo my support in retaining a program. And I don't want to repeat what Councilman Kenney said, but he said it very articulately. And I just want to again express my support to do what we can do to maintain this facility.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much, Councilman.

Councilman Rizzo

Thanks.

Council President Verna

Thank you. 431 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget I want to thank you all for coming in. And I think the children deserve a round of applause. They've been very, very well behaved. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Thank you all so very much. And as you walk out, be assured that we will fight very hard to keep the rink open. Thank you. Our next witness. MR. McPHERSON: Robert Cheetham.

Council President Verna

You have been one of the most patient men I've seen. You were here Monday, and I believe you were here all day today; were you not?

Mr. Cheetham

Been here since just before noon.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Please identify yourself for the record.

Mr. Cheetham

My name is Robert Cheetham. Madam President, members of City Council, I want to thank you for the 432 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget opportunity to speak before you today on the subject of tax reform proposals that you're currently considering. I'm a small business owner, and a homeowner in the Spring Garden neighborhood. I came here as a student, I stayed to work in the City, and then started a business, and bought a home here. My wife is a new immigrant, working for a nonprofit theater. (Applause.)

Mr. Cheetham

My business, a small software development firm, has done well here. We've added employees over the past couple of years and expanded our office space. Our company was set up as an S Corporation. This is a business structure designed for small businesses with small number of owners. It simplifies taxes by allowing us to pass through our business net income to our personal taxes. It's sort of a cross between a conventional 433 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget corporation and a partnership. The federal and state governments both recognize this corporate structure, but Philadelphia does not. Consequently, we are forced to pay both net income tax at the business and then school tax on our personal return, all on the same money. And unlike dividends, we must recognize that income and pay the double tax on it, even if we invest it back in the business and do not ever see it. I'm in favor of paying my fair share of taxes, but this type of double taxation would not exist for me in any other jurisdiction in which I would like to live. We're growing and profitable now, but in our first two years we did not turn a profit. We had losses. Yet even with these losses, Philadelphia taxed us on our gross receipts. And what is this tax called? A business privilege tax, as if it's a privilege for me to have a business. 434 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget The amount I actually paid came to only a few hundred dollars a year. It wasn't the amount that was important, but its symbolic significance was very powerful. We're all here to talk about tax reform and budget cuts. But my chief challenge as a business owner today is hiring great people with the technological -- technical qualifications that I need. And with few exceptions, we've had enormous challenges recruiting locally, so we've recruited nationally. But many of the candidates we've interviewed don't want to move here. Part of that is image, and we work very hard to sell Philadelphia, sometimes successfully. It's a place that we believe in. But part of it is also the tax structure. Last fall I failed to convince a terrific candidate to move from the west.

Council President Verna

Excuse me, please. We're still trying to conduct our 435 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget business. Thank you. Please proceed.

Mr. Cheetham

Last fall I failed to convince a terrific candidate who was considering moving from out west because the tax burden he would face here was much higher than what he would have in his own city. And as a small business, we couldn't afford him to substantially -- We couldn't afford to substantially increase his salary to compensate. This spring I managed to persuade another new employee who lives in Delaware County to join us. But again, a significant part of his decision-making process was the additional tax burden he would be obliged to pay. I don't want to dwell on the undesirable aspects of living and having a business in Philadelphia. In many ways Philadelphia has been a good home for us. My wife and I live near downtown. We walk or bicycle to work. 436 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget All of my employees either walk or take public transit to work. We love the architecture, the restaurants, the theaters, and the museums. As a former City employee, I know how difficult it can be to work with the City government. But when I started my business, both L & I and the Revenue Departments were very helpful to us, in terms of working through the necessary forms and registrations. I realize not everyone has the same experience, but mine was a good one. But the amenities that my wife and I value, the historic fabric and active art scene, great restaurants, walkable streets, and vibrant neighborhoods also exist in Boston, London, Paris and San Francisco. You see, in my mind Philadelphia isn't competing just with Bucks and Montgomery Counties, it's competing with every major city in the world for attention, for investment dollars, for businesses and for workers. 437 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget I believe Philadelphia can meet that challenge. I believe it could become a mecca for new immigrants, like my wife. I believe it could have a busy Convention Center and an active technology sector. But I also realize that this may not happen. The formation of the Tax Reform Commission was a positive step in my mind. Most of its recommendation, I believe, are good ones. I want to mention one other thing, and then I'll wrap up. I know that all of you have been here a long time today. I want to mention the proposed cuts to the arts and culture. This may not seem like it's connected to tax reform, but for us it is. The arts, culture of Philadelphia are one of its chief assets. And they're one of the main reasons we decided to stay here after school and start a business and buy a home here. In short, I'd urge you to implement 438 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget the tax reform package and to reconsider the arts, culture and library funding cuts that have been proposed. And I want to close by saying that I'm not necessarily opposed to paying my fair share of taxes. I'm not looking for a handout, and I'm willing to pay, for example, either the wage or the business privilege taxes on our net income. I think those are fair taxes. Reflecting on the gentleman that was speaking earlier, I am willing to pay an increased real estate tax, on the basis of the increased value in my home. But every year my wife and I sit down, and we have to make some very tough decisions. Are we going to stay in Philadelphia or are we going to go to some of these other wonderful places in the world that we would imagine living? Are we going to stay in Philadelphia and create new jobs here or are we going to go somewhere else and create new jobs there? 439 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget And so, we've paid a great deal of attention to what the Tax Reform Commission has said, to what the Mayor has proposed, and to what you're all considering here. And the decisions you make over the next few months are going to directly impact us in a very big way. I'll close with that. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you so very much. I think your testimony was right on target, and I think most of what you said is conversations that Council members have had, I guess in the last several years, how we want people to stay in the City. And we compliment you on that. And we certainly want to see people like you stay, and have a family, and send your children to schools, stay in business, hire more people as you go along, and perhaps with whatever we do, that may be encouraging you to do that.

Mr. Cheetham

I'll look forward to 440 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget that. Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, and good luck to you. MR. McPHERSON: The next witness is Joseph Powell. Patrick Starr.

Council President Verna

Good evening.

Mr. Starr

Good evening, Council President Verna, and good evening to all the other members of Council, and members of the audience. My name is Patrick Starr. I'm Vice President of the Pennsylvania Environmental Council and a founding member of the Northeast Riverfront Task Force, chaired by former Congressman Bob Borski. And we're going to deviate from the focus on tax reform to a completely different issue. I'm here this evening to speak in support of Mayor Street's fiscal year '05 budget, that calls for the creation of a new economic development 441 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget fund, with an initial investment of $125 million, to make Philadelphia the New River City. As some of you may know, in 2001, thanks to the leadership of Councilwoman Joan Krajewski, Mayor Street, and then Congressman Borski, as well as other elected officials and community leaders, the City Planning Commission developed a new vision plan for the nearly 3500 acres that comprise the North Delaware Riverfront, stretching from Penn Treaty Park to the Bucks County line. The plan provides a recipe for converting thousands of acres of post-industrial, environmentally contaminated brown field sites into a revitalized riverfront, with vibrant new communities and a new urban greenway. Given my organization's metropolitan efforts to fight suburban sprawl and save open space, we believe strongly that the Delaware Riverfront, with its excellent highway access, dramatic views, potential 442 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget recreational amenities, can become a new high value Philadelphia neighborhood that will retain existing Philadelphia residents who might be looking to buy up and possibly out of the City, as well as attracting back to the City those who will seek the riverfront's unique amenities. 8 mile Kensington and Tacony railroad corridor is nearly final, one of the first major investments in public infrastructure on the riverfront. The funding for buying it, designing it, building it, and signing it is already in place from state and federal sources, and a new recreational trail for Philadelphia families will result in a few years. Similarly, other projects on the riverfront have moved along, with federal support and state support, including the demolition of the Tacony Warehouse where 443 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget new housing may become a reality, and a new public park at Lardner's Point. The Streets Department is working on extending the Delaware Avenue north from the Betsy Ross Bridge through Bridesburg, with a vision to eventually pick up again at Tacony Palmyra, continuing to Pennypack Park. This is planned as a new river road. This is also being funded largely through federal funding, which will complete the river road. All told, approximately $14 million in state and federal funds have been spent or committed to these riverfront projects, and another $11 million has already been requested. It is now critical that the River City Initiative dollars be invested to leverage these state and federal commitments and lay the groundwork for the new development. Mayor Street's economic development fund provides an essential tool to leverage these very sizable state and federal 444 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget investments. The $125 million investment in a new River City Initiative is critical to unleashing private market development. Sites in Bridesburg such as the former Philly Coke site, the former Dodge Steel site in Tacony, and the Army Warehouse site in Tacony are being targeted by private developers who would invest millions of dollars in new communities. But to start the transformation of this currently vacant landscape, the City must invest in streets, water and sewer utilities, and in the public greenway that protects the riverfront for everyone to enjoy and view. The market is waiting to happen, but there is a gap between the vision and the current reality of rusted and abandoned warehouses.

Mr. Starr

The City must do its part as a partner in making new development less risky and stimulating the tide of transformation. Philadelphia can take advantage of 445 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget this tremendous river asset to create an attractive new housing community and connect our City to its great rivers. I urge you to support the momentum of opportunities for new development on the City's rivers and tremendous new recreational amenities by approving the economic development fund initiative and the New River City investment. I dare say, just relating to the other testimony we've been hearing this afternoon, this is certainly a case of investing in the future development, and the future tax base of Philadelphia. And I believe it is an investment that you will be very proud that you made and one that you will certainly not regret. And so, I thank you for hearing our testimony. And if there are any questions, I'd be very glad to answer those.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very much. And may I say, we miss you in my neck of the woods.

Mr. Starr

I miss you, too, 446 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Councilwoman Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you. Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you, Madam President. Mr. Starr, it's a pleasure hearing your testimony. I just wanted to bring your attention -- I'll drop a copy off to you before you leave -- that back in 2000, March 30th of 2000, we issued an extensive report on just what you're talking about. And although some work started in 2001, it's certainly sooner than 2004. And hopefully we would have been living in River City before today. So, on the way out the door, I'll make sure you get a copy of it.

Mr. Starr

That would be excellent. Well, it is going to happen. You're going to see the beginning of some of that investment very soon.

Councilman Kenney

It's going to happen before we approve or disprove the 447 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget $125 million a year?

Mr. Starr

I think that we need that $125 million to make sure it happens.

Councilman Kenney

I understand. But don't get too far down the road before we approve the $125 million, if in fact we decide to do it.

Mr. Starr

Thank you.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you again. MR. McPHERSON: Next witnesses are Louise Turan, Nancy Carroll. Identify yourself for the record.

Ms. Turan

My name is Louise Turan, and I'm the Executive Director of the Schuylkill River Development Corporation.

Ms. Childress

My name is Tracy Childress. I'm Director for Business and Community Development for SRDC.

Ms. Turan

Thank you very much for having us here today. And I wanted to thank all the City Council members and also say I certainly have a greater appreciation 448 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget for all your hard work, after listening to a full day of testimony today. When Mayor Street told the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce that we can make Philadelphia a New River City in America, he was articulating the spirit behind many exciting projects that will soon bring our City to life and reconnect communities to the Schuylkill River. I should also add that we're delighted to follow up on the heels of Patrick Starr and the Pennsylvania Environmental Council's great work on the Delaware. Our initiative will feature along the Schuylkill new recreational trails, streetscape, bridge improvements, tourist attractions, and a re-energized business and residential community, as well as restored environmental and industrial areas. Along with the prospects that lie ahead for the Delaware, the Schuylkill transformed will indeed re-brand 449 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Philadelphia as a New River City. And I do hope it will happen, Councilman Kenny, before the budget is approved or not approved. And I would like to add a footnote that we already have funding in place for many of our projects which we can get to at the end of the testimony, if you have time. Since 1992 SRDC has been coordinating several billion dollars worth of improvements along the riverfront, for the benefit of current and future generations. However, we are at a critical juncture. And like our other projects along the river, it is vital that we maintain our momentum and bring our pioneering venture to complete fruition. When City Council votes on Mayor Street's budget later this month, members of Council will have an opportunity to inject new life into an under utilized riverfront and create a regional jewel that will kindle economic growth and enrich the 450 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget quality of life for our citizens in this area. Imagine a riverfront immediately adjacent to residents and businesses that includes access to first-class outdoor recreation: Running, walking, boating, biking, picnicking, and a reduction of the number of vacant and industrial parcels along the Schuylkill, lower Schuylkill between the Fairmount Water Works and the dam. All of these will inspire green and beautification projects. The broader gains for the City and the residents include the retention of student and workers, more tourism venues, and heightened tax revenue from industrial reuse and new businesses. The effort that we are coordinating is actually a partnership between the City, the state, and federal agencies, as well as local foundations, private businesses, area universities, and through the process of coming up with our plan for the Schuylkill River, we have coordinated and touched on 451 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget 40 different communities and neighborhood organizations along the Schuylkill. For example, some of our projects include a new pedestrian and bicycle ramp, connecting to the South Street Bridge that, will bring -- actually provide a first-time access for many West Philadelphians to the lower part of the future Schuylkill River Park. We also envision docks at Bartram's Garden and at Walnut Street, and Fairmount Water Works, to promote travel and tourism. We are going to improve the Schuylkill bridges, Market, Chestnut, Walnut, and South Street, to improve pedestrian crossings and relieve traffic congestions, and improve linkages between east and west sides of the river. Eventually we hope to see a Schuylkill Trail Program that will provide a green edge along the river, connecting Center City, all the way down to South and Southwest Philadelphia. We continue to make progress every 452 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget day toward reaching our goal.

Ms. Turan

In fact, on Thursday, on May 20th at 6:30, instead of a ground breaking, we're going to have a light breaking, and we hope you all will plan to be at the ramps at Market and Chestnut when Mayor Street turns the big switch on and turns on the lights in the long-awaited Schuylkill River Park. In closing, Majority Leader Blackwell, I'd just like to say that it is impossible to overestimate the positive good that will be generated for this region, once all the phases of our ambitious project are completed. We are acting now and hope that everyone will join with us. We urge City Council to please support this important initiative. The Schuylkill is a new river. Philadelphia is a new City. It is a new river city, and it is overflowing with pride, energy and determination, to make our region a better place to live, work, play, learn and visit. 453 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very much.

Ms. Turan

Thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you. Any questions? (No response.)

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you again. MR. McPHERSON: I think there's only a couple more. Ed Izore can be next, and then Fred Mauer.

Ms. Carroll

Good evening, Council. My name is Nancy Carroll. I am the Director of the Citizens to Save the Horses Committee. Our committee was formed in late March of this year, in response to the closing of the Police Mounted Patrol Unit. Our group was originally made up of the families and friends of the units of police officers and civilian employees. But the repeated media coverage and our petition campaign, numbers of supporters has gone well into the 454 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget thousands. I have prepared a brief statement on our behalf. Mayor Street's, in his budget proposal, has stated that the closing of the Mounted Police Unit will save the City $400,000 a year. The Managing Director, Phillip Goldsmith, has put the savings at 500,000 a year. Police Commissioner Johnson places that figure at $700,000 a year. Which of them is correct? None of them deny that their projections include the salaries of the civilian employees or the police officers assigned to the unit. When Johnson was before Council on April 19th, he stated that the police officers would be transferred to other areas of patrol, and the civilians would be assigned as fingerprint technicians. Since they will all continue their employment with the City, how can they conclude [sic] their salaries in part of the savings? And what, then, are the 455 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget correct numbers? Based on expenditures list [sic] for mounted patrol from 2003 fiscal year, the numbers are not all what they seem to be telling us. From July 1, 2002, to May 30, 2003, the unit spent less than $111,000. This amount not only includes the feed, bedding, supplies, equipment for the unit, but also veterinarian and furrier services. In fact, the unit was reportedly more than $48,000 under budget, with only one month remaining in the fiscal year. How then can anyone justify the closing of this unit? The value of this unit's service to the department and the City by far outweighs its operating costs. The Mounted Patrol has proven itself time and time again. In the First District, there are certainly the undisputed favor of business owners and the citizens alike for patrol and crowd control in the areas of South Street, Penns Landing 456 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget and Delaware Avenue. In the Second District, their presence at the stadiums has played a key role in public safety. And with the national championship win by any of our sports teams being only a matter of time, perhaps much sooner than we think, the need for this unit will be overwhelming. In the Third District, at the 52nd and Market shopping area, the unit's high visibility has been a welcome presence. In the Fourth and Fifth Districts, along Kelly Drive, and throughout the 9100 acres of Fairmount Park, the need for a mounted patrol is just plain common sense. Especially now, with the Fairmount Park rapist still on the loose, the mounted patrol not only serves as a deterrent to future attacks, but also provides a sense of safety for park-goers. In the Eighth District, along Germantown Avenue, the Mounted Patrol has been a welcome addition, as a way to 457 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget address the high volume of crimes in the area. Captain Singletary of the 14th District can certainly attest to it. In the 10th District, when the auto thefts at the Franklin Mills Mall had become a problem, the Mounted Patrol was the solution. And there is so much more that this unit could do for the citizens of Philadelphia. In the Sixth District, along the waterfront, with the blight of abandoned warehouses and overgrown lots being replaced with new park grounds, what better way to have police presence in this natural environment than the Mounted Patrol.

Ms. Carroll

In the Seventh District, along Kensington Avenue, where prostitution has become an ever-increasing problem for the area residents, this, no doubt to have a high visibility presence [sic] of the Mounted Patrol would have an effect on restoring a higher quality of life in the neighborhood. 458 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget In the Ninth District, along Rising Sun Avenue business district, again, the visible presence of the Mounted Patrol would be an extremely effective deterrent in crime, while providing a sense of security, and not -- let's not forget the Mounted Patrol has always played a major role in community relations for both the Police Department and the City of Philadelphia at the multitude of parades, festivals and public events throughout the City each year. The police officers and civilians of the unit have already been reassigned, and all of the horses have either been given 17 back to their original owners or donated to other police departments. But it is not too late to save there unit. All of those who accepted horses have stated they would be glad to return the horses, should circumstances change. Unfortunately, it play only be a short period of time before the unit's remaining equipment and inventory are sold. 459 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget So the time for action is now. And our community has been hard at work in this endeavor. Unfortunately, the countless phone calls, letters and petitions, with approximately 5,000 signatures by supporters of the Mounted Patrol Unit to the Mayor, Police Commissioner and City Council have been ineffective in reversing this decision. We have been forced to begin a new campaign, to seek alternative funding. And we are confident that much of the real operating costs of the unit could be obtained through private funding, and possibly through grants. Other police departments throughout the United States, such as New York, Denver, Tampa, Indianapolis, and Rochester, whose mounted patrol units faced the same fate as ours, were saved by the city and the private sector joined together, and committed the funding needed to keep the units in operation. On April 28th, a letter was faxed to 460 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget the Office of the Police Commissioner Johnson, requesting not only his support but also his written terms and conditions of reinstating the Mounted Unit, through private funding. We have not received a response. So we ask you now, ladies and gentlemen of City Council, please support our efforts. Do not let Mayor Street take this vital service for over a hundred year tradition away from the citizens of Philadelphia. Reject the Mayor's decision to disband the Mounted Patrol Unit, by rejecting his budget proposal. Thank you. )

Council President Verna

Thank you very much.

Mr. Mauer

I have written testimony for the clerk.

Council President Verna

Please identify yourself and proceed with your testimony. 461 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Mauer

My name is Fred Mauer. I am an officer in the Friends of Tacony Creek Park, and I monitor the Fairmount Park budgets. I want to testify on the Capital Budget for Fairmount Park, the ordinance 8 for this fiscal year of '04 and '5. Tacony Creek Park has had major capital budget problems because the park had minimal park development features. Only a cinder trail was made in 1938. Outdoor playgrounds were placed in the park plan of 1947. That's 57 years ago. The north section had a recreation plan in 1976, so that's 28 years ago. That is the park recreation capital development investments of 92 years. Park capital plans has not replaced any picnic tables of park benches or play equipment for our park users, and the place looks decrepit and little evidence that parks are meant for people. 15 years ago we had three public 462 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget playgrounds, but the Park Commission removed all playgrounds, and now we have zero. They even removed a donated softball cage, thus eliminating any free play. The park attitude has been to demolish everything and never to maintain or to rebuild. The evidence is that we went from three to zero playgrounds, and that there is no Tacony Creek Park capital commitment or no park recreation plan in these current budgets. Zero playgrounds satisfies the Park lawyer, that zero playgrounds is ultimate public safety and absolute cost savings. But I think having no playgrounds in a public park is a public emergency need. I think that this neighborhood of a three-mile park through three Councilmanic Districts, with public pedestrian access and a waterway that serves a full tenth of the City population deserves more care under a capital plan. I ask for City Council to amend the 463 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget next year's capital budget to direct monies to refurbish the Garland Street Hill -- which is adjacent to the Hill Creek Public Housing Authority Playground, and to institute a full Tacony Creek Park recreational plan. We also have a major capital back issue in the current fiscal year '03, '04, from a line item that was intended to correct the negligence of the natural lands manager. He removed a 60-foot steel pedestrian bridge number FB03. That bridge was placed in the Frank Rizzo bicentennial capital plan, and was never authorized for removal, and never declared unsafe. Our public petition and testimony before the Public Park Commission secured this line item from the City Planning Commission Capital Budget in the line items of fiscal year '03, '04. The line item, as it states, says that bridge improvements City wide, funds will be used for rehabilitation and 464 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget replacement, including Tacony Creek Park. And it had these fiscal year authorizations from fiscal years on up. Says all the years. The numbers are here. These bridge improvements that were dedicated for this fiscal year were not done in this capital year, and we have no 9 information about where the money went. We note now that in the next fiscal year the Planning Commission Capital Budget in their line items, I examine to see what they're going to do. And budget line number 36-1, where we define this past bridge line, does not include Tacony Creek Park at all. And I ask, how can this line item be deleted from a six-year capital budget? I think we need an audit as to why this budget line was deleted, and why the work was not done after the Capital Budget was adopted. The old bridge is still in storage and easy to rebuild. I think park bridges are needed until we learn how to walk on 465 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget water. And we need some answers. I also note the City Planning Commission Capital Budget also omits anything about Poquessing Creek Park. Poquessing Creek Park, which is at the far end of our City, it never had a master plan or a WPA project to preserve this watershed into a stream valley park.

Mr. Mauer

The whole City Planning Commission and PIDC are currently interested to sell off all adjacent lands, including the whole Byberry track before making creek protection and park land, and to protect water quality. Every loss of Poquessing Creek riparian land diminishes the quality of this public park into an open sewer. More Poquessing Creek land acquisition and a park master plan and a full length trail is needed. Bucks County is on the north side of the creek, and they are doing their part. I think we should do our share to make Tacony Creek Park. 466 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget We need to fund Poquessing Creek Park in this fiscal year and in future capital years to make it into a public park land, and to integrate it into the Benjamin Rush State Park, and to connect it to the Delaware River Trail, which Patrick Starr just talked about. I think the funds requested in my testimony can come from internal savings within the City Planning Capital Budget of this fiscal year '04, '. 05 under line item 34-7, Kelly Drive Recreational Path lighting, that is an excess that we park users do not need. There are too many lights and too many lighting systems on Kelly Drive. This well-lighted road is pushed by the City Planning Commission and the Center City District for their own economic development plans, and the Fairmount Park Commission bows down to them. It is time to end waste on Kelly Drive and return to natural lighting. The electricity and operations alone cost more 467 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget than enough operations fund to fund our Fairmount Park Rangers. I favor more Rangers and less lighting. The Kelly Drive 300,000 item under code CN can be assigned elsewhere. And I also note in the budget that Fairmount Park has evaded some costs by selling Memorial Hall. I don't see that the cost savings was transferred over to support our other missions in the park. And I think that Capital Budget information needs some explaining. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much, sir. Any questions or comments from members of the committee? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Thank you again. Our next witness is Ed Hazzouri. Good evening. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. 468 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Hazzouri

Madam Chairman, members of Council, I'm Ed Hazzouri, H-a-z-z-o-u-r-i, representing the 4,000 Delaware Valley employees of Sunoco and about 2700 employees here in the City. I'd like just to speak very briefly on the land value tax and its impact specifically on our South Philadelphia facilities which many folks know as the old Atlantic and Gulf Oil Refineries, and also our Frankford Chemical Plant, a long time known as the Allied Signal Chemical Plant. In these... In the tax proposal, the idea is to encourage folks not to simply own and hold on to property, but rather, to either develop the land or sell it and have it developed. In these facilities, there's a different dynamic at work. I think both folks in the community and certainly we at Sunoco believe that we want additional land at the perimeter of our facilities and even within the facility itself. At the perimeter, the idea of 469 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget additional land to serve as buffers for the community, so that they're not faced directly with our units and with our tanks; and then, in addition, within the facilities themselves, to have additional property, again, to serve as buffers between units, between tanks, so that if there would be a problem, there's plenty of space for containment quickly and efficiently.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any questions or comments from members of the Committee? Mr. Hazzouri, thank you very much.

Mr. Hazzouri

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Joan Sage.

Ms. Sage

My name is Joan Sage. And interesting that the gentleman talked about Sunoco because Sunoco is one of the few places that, as the previous gentleman had said, would hardly move, like people can move, but they won't move. My name is Joan Sage, but also I am all those other names of the hundreds of 470 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Philadelphians who came to this chamber on Monday. We came from every District of the City, just as we did two years ago, to ask you to enact the land tax because we think of the City as a whole entity. They came because they knew that the land tax would not increase their property taxes, but rather lower them. And that's why you saw so many people here. So, for all the talk about property taxes going up, it wasn't for the ordinary house -- homemaker -- homeowner. This trend must not miss the big picture. Think out of the box. When we bring all neighborhoods up and equal, then everybody benefits, even those few blinded by shortsighted self-interest who pressure you for the status quo. And that big picture is how this extraordinary People's Tax Commission has produced the machinery that will only work with all of its parts in place. Otherwise, it will not function at all. 471 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Any shredding of any part of the tax reform package, whether it be the land tax or any other part of the legislation, will destroy the machinery as a whole and continue the disastrous way Philadelphia now functions as bits and pieces of special privilege. We can see already where the City is going into decline, just a City paved with asphalt car parks, with reference to you know who. It is not slot machine gambling we need, but our chamber leaders to gamble on a complete change in the way Philadelphia operates, well studied by the Controller's Office a few years ago, which also looked at the whole picture as the Tax Reform Commission did. Gamble and then even take credit for turning Philadelphia around to become a competitor with Harrisburg, as the most livable City in the state. Yes, Harrisburg is a land tax city. And in fact, Allentown has in a 472 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget referendum voted to keep it in spite of the special interests that were trying to fight it with lots of money. As one of the general citizenry of Philadelphia, I'm appealing to your hearts and souls to lead us to real total tax reform. Let's stop the collateral damage that has been and still is killing the City. Radical change in the way Philadelphia addresses its taxes has to be done. Dreams can be visions can be realities. Expanding recreation centers and parks, having libraries open every day and evening, as they were when I was a kid, and continuing to support our arts communities, which are the mainstay of our economy and what Philadelphia is known for. We are part of the whole. And the Tax Reform Commission has given you a chance to make history for Philadelphia and turning us in a new and fairer direction, if you act now. 473 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget You can do it if you have the will. You have the support of the people who came here on Monday, if you accept the entire Tax Reform Commission's work as a whole. It is a remarkable achievement. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you, Mrs. Sage. And Mrs. Sage, I want to thank you for coming in on Monday and again today. You've been extremely patient. Thank you very much. Do we have anyone else to testify? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Seeing no 16 one, I am then going to call upon Mr. Schwartz. Good evening. And I want to thank you for your patience also.

Mr. Schwartz

That's all right. I've been here patiently...

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Mr. Schwartz

...for many years. My name is Ed Schwartz. I'm President of the Institute for Civic Values. 474 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Council President Verna

Well, I think you were called back because there were some questions that my colleagues had that they wanted to address to you. And the Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Schwartz, thank you for coming back. Sorry for the delay, but your past experience tells you what this process can be like. I had a number of questions coming from a variety of places. So I want to start laying out some of these issues, so I can get a better understanding of some of the testimony from the other day. And Madam Chair, if there are other... I saw them earlier, but I've lost track of them. If there are other Tax Reform Commission members here, I'd like to have them as well. So we have Mr. Schwartz, Mr. Mandel and Mr. Vanderbilt. Mr. Schwartz, let me start with you. 475 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget You're the former Chair of the Philadelphia Tax Reform Commission. And we went over some of this the other day. Now, I just need to refresh on some of these specifics. The Commission issued its report on 11/15/03; is that correct?

Councilman Nutter

And then you testified in February, based on a resolution sponsored by Councilman Tasco, in our Committee of the Whole, based on laying out what the position was of the Tax Reform Commission and its report at the February 24, 2004 hearing on the TRC report. Do you recall that?

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And then you also served on the committee. I don't remember whether you chaired that particular committee.

Mr. Schwartz

I did not. You're talking about the 21st Century Committee? That was chaired by Jeremy Nowack.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. 476 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

But I was on it.

Councilman Nutter

But you were on it.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And you were asked by the Mayor to be on that committee?

Mr. Schwartz

That's correct.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And that report was issued on March 11, 2004. And then, I'm not sure what the capacity was, but certainly there was... because I don't remember the introduction, but there was an assumption that either in your former capacity as Chair of the Tax Reform Commission or as a member of the 21st Century Review Forum subcommittee, you also participated in a press conference sponsored by Philadelphia Forward, which is made up of a variety of people, some of whom are former Tax Reform Commission members; is that correct?

Mr. Schwartz

That's correct.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And then, 477 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget from what I've been able to read from the Tax Reform Commission report, to the transcript of the Committee of the Whole in February, to the 21st Century Review Forum in March, to your comments as I at least recall them from April 15, 2004, there has been a consistency and a theme of the need to reform the taxes in the City, support for the Tax Reform Commission package of bills. And I would say in your own way you've been pretty outspoken in that regard, as you are often outspoken on a variety of issues. What I'm now trying to understand is, from the press conference on April 15th to your testimony two days ago on May 10th, days, what changed your view on a report 20 you spent almost a year working on, gave 21 fairly extensive testimony at the Committee 22 of the Whole in February, participated in a 23 process that resulted in second endorsement 24 of the Tax Reform Commission, based on your 25 service at the 21st Century Review Forum, 478 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget and the press conference on the apron of City Hall. What happened in the intervening 5 days that has caused you to have an 6 apparent different opinion? 7

Mr. Schwartz

I have no different 8 opinion on the report or the need for the 9 things that we called for. 10 The question is whether we can 11 afford them in the rate and pace at this 12 point and projected five-year strategy for 13 doing that. 14

Councilman Nutter

Well, let me -- 15

Mr. Schwartz

And, well, wait. 16

Councilman Nutter

Let me stay 17 right there, then. 18

Mr. Schwartz

Yeah. 19

Councilman Nutter

From the TRC 20 report, to the Committee of the Whole, to 21 the 21st Century Review Form to the press 22 conference... 23

Mr. Schwartz

What changed? 24

Councilman Nutter

In the 25 intervening 25 days, what new piece of 479 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget information did you get --

Mr. Schwartz

That we have to --

Councilman Nutter

-- that caused you to make a reassessment?

Mr. Schwartz

About affordability, that we have to contribute over the next five years $288 million more in the pension than was anticipated. Maybe that was out there before this month, but I became fully aware of it this month. And that we lost $18 million a year in the Gas Works. So now, you're dealing with a $375 million fiscal problem that was not at our attention last summer or even in the fall or even at the time of any of the things that you described. And yes. Did that have a critical impact on my thinking? Absolutely. This is about money. It's not about ideology.

Councilman Nutter

I thought it was about jobs.

Mr. Schwartz

It's about jobs, but it's also about the way in which the City budget can be handled, and what the City 480 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget can afford.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And your position is is that since the budget was introduced and a unilateral decision was made to forego the $18 million, with no 7 explanation as to how that budget gap would be filled or the movement of the date by which we were supposed to get the $45 million loan repayment by PGW, with no 11 pre-decision or discussion about how that decision was made or a lack of recognition in the five-year plan or the budget that we would forego $5 million in interest earnings by taking the Water Department's Debt Service Reserve Fund and use it for a different thought or strategy, and that was not accounted for in the budget. All of that has happened in the past few weeks, not subject of any action by this body at all. And you've now arrived at the conclusion that $17 million as a first-year cost which is in the report by the Tax Reform Commission, that the City can't 481 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget afford that.

Mr. Schwartz

No, that's not what we're discussing. If the debate were over the $17 million, I think that there's more the City can do. But that's not what we've been discussing. We have been discussing whether or not there should be a pre-fixed tax reduction schedule that carries beyond this year into the next five years, and sets tax rates that will have to be included in the five-year plan.

Councilman Nutter

Who created the schedule, Mr. Schwartz?

Mr. Schwartz

We created the schedule. And the disagreement over what it represented was whether or not this would be mandated by law; and the second question really does -- Whoa.

Councilman Nutter

Well, I want to deal with the first question.

Councilman Nutter

Do you have a copy of the report? 482 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

Sitting with me, no. 3

Councilman Nutter

Okay. How about if we get one.

Mr. Schwartz

I have 300 copies here.

Councilman Nutter

I'd like to go to Volume II, .

Mr. Schwartz

Are you going to refer to the legislation?

Councilman Nutter

Yes.

Mr. Schwartz

Okay. I am familiar that this was in the legislation.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

And I have to tell you -- I've said before -- the legislation was drafted at the very end of the process, after we had more or less agreed on the plan. And I guess it was negligence on my part as Chairman that we never really did have I serious, extended discussion at that point, of what the bill said, and what they represented. So people are left with different impressions about what we agreed 483 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget to. But let me just add that even if we agreed --

Councilman Nutter

But let's put the legislation aside.

Mr. Schwartz

Fair enough.

Councilman Nutter

Let's put the legislation aside for a movement. The report... We should look at Volume I, first page. There's a letter to the citizens of Philadelphia. Now, you were authorized by the citizens to be in business, correct?

Councilman Nutter

By referendum of the voters?

Mr. Schwartz

Correct.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And you were sworn in, is my recollection?

Councilman Nutter

Was everyone sworn as Commissioners?

Mr. Schwartz

That is correct.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. So, this 484 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget letter to the citizens of Philadelphia, dated November 15, 2003, when you go to the second page, it says, our study of Philadelphia's tax system demonstrates that as a city we tax what others do not. Our taxes are too high, and our taxes are unfairly imposed. We've also found that Philadelphia compounds the problem of a high overall tax burden by relying too heavily on wage and business taxes, the taxes that are most likely to drive residents, businesses and jobs from the City. The City's incomparably high wage and business tax rates have damaged Philadelphia's economy over the past three decades, ultimately reducing tax revenue and the ability of the City and the School District of Philadelphia to finance citizen services. Our tax system is broken. It didn't break overnight, and it can't be fixed overnight. The recommendation in this report provide the City with a ten-year 485 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget plan for fundamentally reforming its tax system. To regain its competitive edge, the City needs to abandon its historic, piecemeal approach to tax reform and adopt the ambitious, comprehensive reform program recommended in this report. Respectfully submitted, Edward A. Schwartz, Chair; Raymond Jones, Vice Chair; Al Taubenberger, Vice Chair. Now, what did you mean when you said that you had a ten-year plan for fundamentally reforming the tax system?

Mr. Schwartz

We had laid out a blueprint as to how do go about doing this, in the same way that the Convention Center several years ago had laid out a blueprint for what it meant to build a convention center, that we had offered a blueprint and a timetable that we thought appropriate for the City to pursue this.

Councilman Nutter

Which is now embodied on in the Volume II as an ordinance. 486 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Now, I mean, you know I mean this with every possible respect. I mean, if anyone knows what an ordinance looks like, it's you.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And did you see the bills before the TRC signed off on the report?

Mr. Schwartz

Probably, yeah. I mean, it was a rough week that week, but I probably saw them.

Councilman Nutter

Do you have the report there handy?

Mr. Schwartz

I have a report, yeah. I know what you're talking about with the bill.

Councilman Nutter

So, if you look at this, your first page to the citizens talks about a ten-year plan. Doesn't this bill seem to indicate that there would be a ten-year schedule?

Mr. Schwartz

That's true. It does. But as I'm saying, and I'm acknowledging, during that last week after 487 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget we did the report, we never really discussed the bills, nor did I focus on them and what the implications of that in the legislation would be. This was not something that --

Councilman Nutter

Well, when you were going to release it to the citizens, and expressed your support for it -- and you've done it consistently in at least four different very public ways -- and obviously you've had other discussion with other people, I'm sure, in the interim, were you thinking that it was a ten-year plan or was it a one-year plan?

Mr. Schwartz

No. I was thinking it was plan --

Councilman Nutter

Because the plan is rife with ten-year language.

Mr. Schwartz

Let me -- Let me say what I am thinking, apart from the issues of the legislation. See, I think the obligation that I assumed was to keep my eye on this ball for as long as you can. 488 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget So to me, what was first in my head, was the $17 million in costs for this year. And I worked very hard, for example, to persuade the Administration that they needed to put single sales factor apportionment into this year's budget. It was a really important thing to do. At one point they weren't, and now they were. Now I'm looking at next year, $34 million. So I --

Councilman Nutter

-- talking about single factor for a while longer than that, but I'm glad --

Mr. Schwartz

No, no. I'm just saying -- (Mr. Schwartz and Councilman Nutter began speaking simultaneously, not reportable.)

Councilman Nutter

-- you were able to convince them about it.

Mr. Schwartz

No. I'm just saying that -- that now the next step -- There are some other things that I think within this budget we could do in this year. 489 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget I testified earlier in the week that I would be prepared to vote for a reduction in the Police Department, and... because I think that's where the money is. And I wrote about that before even being part of the Commission. So that's this year.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

Now, what I'm saying to you is that there is a series of things projected for next year. Between now and next year, to me this is -- always had to be affordable. So the question then is, what steps do we need to take between now and this year -- next year to make affordable the things that we're trying to do, so that we're not breaking the budget, which was a constant discussion on the Commission, and at the heart of the premise of social and fiscal responsibility. So to me the issue this year was, what do we do next year? And what do we do the third year? And as I say, the other intervening 490 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget event in the midst of all of this was learning that we have to pay $288 million over the five-year period more in the pension fund. Both of those things worked together. If I looked at a budget that had big holes in -- you know, in all of these departments, in terms of, you know, they were funded at the current levels, et cetera, and we weren't dealing with this, my attitude about even the legislation might be different. But what I see is a budget which has cut virtually every department, but including the police and prisons, but many of them five to seven percent, service cuts that you are listening to here and claiming that you're very concerned about, a $288 million additional investment in the plan.

Councilman Nutter

Let me just stop you there. It's more than a claim.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm sorry?

Councilman Nutter

It's more than a claim. 491 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

Well, obviously, what's the claim? The service cuts.

Councilman Nutter

Your comment was service issues that I claim to be concerned about.

Mr. Schwartz

Oh. I'm sorry. That you are concerned about. I wasn't meaning to demean it. You are, and legitimately so.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm merely saying that you're looking at a whole bunch of departments that are being cut, some really badly, some disappearing. And that's part of whatever savings would have to --

Councilman Nutter

Right. And we will deal with that in this budget. But what I'm still trying to understand is, notwithstanding this schedule, because even this schedule, your issue seems to be this new-found concept of locking in rates, as if --

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I don't think that's new found. 492 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

-- as if you vote for a bill, it has a rate in it, you cannot return to it, we'll never touch it again. You send the planes out. They have no radio, no communications, and you cannot bring them back. This bill interrupts a locked-in five-year schedule itself. The Administration has sent a bill to disrupt a five-year schedule that someone would say was locked in place. We voted for a bill two years ago that gave for the first time a guaranteed schedule of five successive years of wage and business tax cuts. We did that. But now there's a bill in front of us to change a reduction that's supposed to happen in July to January. And it can happen again. Or you could have this schedule in place; and, actually, we're going to have budget hearings next year because it's what we do. And if things aren't working, we'll be having this same discussion. 493 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

Well, there isn't --

Councilman Nutter

And we could stop the prospective cuts or leave them at the rate where they are, and whatever they're going to be on July 1st.

Mr. Schwartz

Well --

Councilman Nutter

So I guess that's the problem that I'm having.

Mr. Schwartz

I know you are. But you see, the added problem which was sort of in my mind, and then resurfaced, is that what we passed this -- what you passed this year must be included as a premise for revenue collections in the five-year plan for the next through 2009. So if the law mandates a level of reduction in wage and business taxes by law over the next five years beyond what's there, then that will have to be reflected in the five-year plan...

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

...in additional cuts in services, given that we are talking now about a fixed additional payment of roughly 494 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget $288 million. And as I mentioned, by the way --

Councilman Nutter

Over five.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm sorry?

Councilman Nutter

$288 million, you're saying, over five years.

Mr. Schwartz

Over five years, yes. But ironically -- and I made this point in my testimony -- that's roughly not too far from what, in fact, the Tax Reform Commission recommended. I mean, that is over the -- It's close. In fact --

Councilman Nutter

Let me ask you this question --

Mr. Schwartz

-- it covers the first four years. But now we have that as a fixed payment that we can't for the moment get out of. Maybe the stock market's doing better last year will reveal that we have slightly less to pay in the pension fund. Next year we have no way of knowing what 495 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget that's going to be.

Councilman Nutter

Well, maybe we need to figure out what's going on with our pension fund...

Mr. Schwartz

Well, as I said --

Councilman Nutter

...or seek to reduce some of the costs over there, because depending on the number of money managers you have and the fees that are generated, all of that comes out of the pension fund.

Mr. Schwartz

And Councilman, you may recall I listed that as one of the five or six things that I think we absolutely need to do this year to respond to --

Councilman Nutter

Yeah. Well, other than you and I maybe a couple other people around here, I don't hear anybody else talking about that because, you know, that might disrupt or interrupt some other things that happen --

Mr. Schwartz

Well, let me say, I --

Councilman Nutter

-- that are much 496 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget more positive in other people's pockets.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, let me just say, I can't speak for other people. But as an investor who lost a certain amount of money myself, when I started looking at -- When this happened with the pension fund, I am totally outraged by it. And there's so many hours in the day. We're dealing with this now. We got to deal with this, as well as to some extent the way we deal with Blue Cross, which seems to be to their advantage, not ours. And these are the issues that we have to solve to make affordable the things that I think need to happen to implement the tax reform.

Councilman Nutter

As you well understand, and I'm sure you've read through the five-year plan, in the outer years of the plan, any plan that we passed over the past few years, are all of the cuts accounted for? I think there's been a line in the 497 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget five-year plan that has usually made reference to cuts in the future, but they're undetermined.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, then it's a question of the magnitude that you're talking about, aren't you -- isn't it?

Councilman Nutter

Yes.

Mr. Schwartz

I think that we're dealing with --

Councilman Nutter

And also what PICA thinks about the integrity of the --

Mr. Schwartz

Yes. No; I understand that. We're dealing with two -- This is about not an abstraction. This is about the real dollars that are facing you. And maybe somebody else has a different judgment.

Councilman Nutter

The only real dollars that are facing us, sir, are the $17 million in FY '05. That's the only dollars in front of us.

Mr. Schwartz

But there is a $288 million -- What did you say it was, in 498 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget terms of the pension payment?

Councilman Nutter

You said it was $288 over five.

Mr. Schwartz

Yeah, 288 over a five-year period.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

It's $30 or $40 million. It's $11 million, I know, for 2004, that we anticipated. And it's sizable over the next three years. That was new information. And the question, you see, is on the notion of we have to adjust to contingencies. If having that kind of increase over the last six weeks, coupled with the fact, as I pointed out, that the City has been operating on a deficit spending basis, operating --

Councilman Nutter

You may have gotten information over the past six weeks. I don't think it happened over the last six weeks. I don't have much in the way of investments, so I don't necessarily have to pay that close attention. But I don't 499 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget think the market has collapsed in the last six weeks.

Mr. Schwartz

No; but the amount of money that we have to pay in the pension fund probably was revealed at some point in the fall, and I focused on it over in the last month to six weeks.

Councilman Nutter

I understand that. Let's talk about your --

Councilman Kenney

Point of information.

Councilman Nutter

Sure.

Councilman Kenney

I'm going to explode here in a minute. I've been hearing consistently from members of the Commission who have testified here and are consultants, that it was not this Commission's mission to budget. It was this Commission's mission to give to us a road map of reforms that we needed to implement, to get ourselves out of this death spiral of loss of jobs and residents. It was our job to deal with the 500 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget budget implications of that, if we decided to implement it, not you as Chairman of the Commission's job.

Mr. Schwartz

But I'm not speaking to --

Councilman Kenney

You're speaking about nothing but changes in the budget down the road that we're going to have to adjust.

Mr. Schwartz

Councilman.

Councilman Kenney

My understanding --

Mr. Schwartz

Councilman.

Councilman Kenney

My understanding of what your mission was was to give us a five, six, seven, ten-year road map, to deal with our death spiral of loss of jobs and residents, not to sit here and worry about the pension fund contribution. That's our problem. Not to worry about what services are being cut or not cut. That's our problem. We're supposed to deal with that. You've become not only Commissioner, 501 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget but a super Council member that's going to tell us what's fiscally responsible for us to do. That's our job to do, fiscal responsibility. It's your job to give us the road map to get the hell out of this mess.

Mr. Schwartz

Councilman.

Councilman Kenney

Which I think you did originally, and then you changed your mind.

Mr. Schwartz

Councilman, as I said in my testimony -- and I was very precise for this reason: I was here testifying on behalf of the Institute for the Study of Civic Values and the Tax Reform Commission. I did not decide, in taking that assignment which ended in January, that this was going to define what I said about politics, government, public policy or public spending, in fact for the rest of my life. The irony of this is that my original notion of what I was not talking about during the Commission, in fact, was 502 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget the need to significantly reduce the cost of crime by producing [sic] the number of people committing crime. I made no comments about --

Councilman Kenney

That's even going further than the budget. Now we're talking about criminal philosophy.

Mr. Schwartz

I am not here -- My permanent title in life, Councilman, is not chairman or even former chairman of the Tax Reform Commission.

Mr. Schwartz

But don't you realize with this very delicate document, that what you did two days ago was throw so much concern and suspicion over what the implications of it are going to be, is that you may have killed it? Do you understand you may have had a role in killing it?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I see the question of whether it's killed or not as a matter of the persistent effort to make the conditions possible, that this agenda will be implemented in a way that doesn't hurt the City. 503 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Kenney

But that's not -- I'm sorry. I'm going to go back. I'm going to relieve myself of this point of information because I think that what was clear was you're not supposed to be concerned about the budget, we are. You're supposed to be concerned about the tax reform that's needed to get this City out of its slump.

Mr. Schwartz

And my --

Councilman Kenney

And you're taking it a step further than you should have. You're taking it five steps further than what your mandate was as a Commissioner and Chairman.

Mr. Schwartz

And I did not come here as simply a chair testifying on behalf of the Commission or as Chairman, because if that's what I was going to do, I would not have said a word about it. You're absolutely right. I would have simply come in, as members have, and said, this is what -- as I've done here -- this is what the Commission supported. But 504 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget I did not --

Councilman Kenney

Did any other members of this Commission that you led know what your testimony was going to be about?

Mr. Schwartz

I did let members of the --

Councilman Nutter

Did or didn't?

Mr. Schwartz

I did let members of the Commission know that I was -- I could not support a premise of a schedule that would be mandated by law for the entire life, that this would be enclosed in -- I made that -- When that premise -- Initially the discussions did not involve pursuing the legislation. The initial efforts were focused -- discussions were focused around what was the Mayor going to do in his inaugural address, what was the Mayor going to do in his program. And so, during that --

Councilman Kenney

I'm going to end the point of information. The Mayor's 505 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget inaugural address, and crime fighting, and anything else is not germane. Councilman Nutter, I apologize for interfering in your time.

Councilman Nutter

That's all right. No problem.

Councilman Kenney

Please; it's just beyond...

Councilman Nutter

Mr. Schwartz, let me ask you this question: The Tax Reform Commission, Committee of the Whole, 21st Century Review Forum, Philadelphia Forward press conference. How did you think the ten-year plan was going to get implemented, in your mind?

Mr. Schwartz

In my mind, year after year you would look at what, in fact, the challenge was for the succeeding year and try to meet it. Obviously, you would have --

Councilman Nutter

So is that a ten-year plan or is that a one-year plan --

Mr. Schwartz

No. It was actually sort of a five-year plan. 506 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

-- with nine one-year renewals?

Mr. Schwartz

I mean, I could see five years ahead.

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry?

Mr. Schwartz

A five-year plan.

Councilman Nutter

Well, if you thought it should be a five-year plan, then why didn't the Commission recommend a five-year plan?

Mr. Schwartz

No, no. I'm just saying, how did I think this -- Well, if you thought how it was going to happen in the...

Councilman Nutter

Yeah. Give me the mechanics.

Mr. Schwartz

In the ten-year plan, I think that it --

Councilman Nutter

Thousands of hours, hundreds of thousands of dollars. How did you think this was going to get implemented?

Mr. Schwartz

I think that year after year people who were concerned about 507 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget this would take a look at it as the benchmark against which to measure what else was going on.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

And to see how and to try to get --

Councilman Nutter

And so while we're sitting around fiddling while the joint is burning, annually trying to figure some of this stuff out, is this how business people make their decisions about to stay or to locate or relocate, that --

Mr. Schwartz

This was the question --

Councilman Nutter

-- when they look at the City government they want to see, you know, what's our commitment to either tax reform or tax reduction, they just kind are of sitting on the edge of their seat every spring trying to see what we're going to do with ourselves? Isn't that one of the reasons why, of a few, that we even have a five-year plan? It just came into creation in the 508 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget early '90s.

Mr. Schwartz

That's true. We're dealing now not with an abstraction but with a real situation.

Councilman Nutter

Well, you're right.

Mr. Schwartz

Let me just make another point. On the other side of the equation is the fact that while we are having this argument here, in Harrisburg there is a bill that the Governor is trying to get through that will bring $135 million to the City in each of the next five years and permit the reduction of the wage tax to 3.9 percent. It is a bill that the Tax Reform Commission passed -- supported unanimously early in the summer.

Councilman Nutter

That's good.

Mr. Schwartz

And it seems to me that part of my energy, if we weren't here, a lot of it would be spent in trying to get that to happen. Because the way I see it is the idea of the whole system having to move simultaneously, which I fully agree 509 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget with...

Councilman Nutter

If that happens --

Mr. Schwartz

...it means that in fact we've had at least some movement on the business tax, we have had a pretty widespread acceptance over the next two years of the real estate tax recommendations. And this would be a significant breakthrough in the wage tax. And then it would also make possible in the second year a careful look at how to be even more strenuous on the business tax.

Councilman Nutter

Let me ask this question. If that action happens in Harrisburg, should we just take the funds that may come to us from the state and just use those dollars as our wage tax reduction effort? Or do we take those dollars, reduce the base; and then continue to have reduction based on the new lower base as a result of revenues from the state. 510 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

I believe that the money should be used in an effective way, either for continued wage tax -- in some combination of continued wage tax reduction and aggressive business tax reduction. And what formula you establish for that exactly --

Councilman Nutter

As I best understand it, I don't think we're going to get to make that choice. I think... (Mr. Schwartz began speaking simultaneously with Councilman Nutter, not reportable.)

Mr. Schwartz

No, no. What I'm saying, that you will not get a chance --

Councilman Nutter

I think the legislation will be written in a way that it can only be used for wage tax reduction.

Mr. Schwartz

Yeah; and we will also mandate a certain -- that the City's current commitment continue. So it does -- That will happen. But I do think that it takes -- in terms of the tax system of the City and the tax 511 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget situation, that would set our tax -- wage tax rate below four percent. And it does take --

Councilman Nutter

If we continue beyond what the state -- Just taking what the state gives us.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I -- Yeah.

Councilman Nutter

What I'm trying to understand from you --

Mr. Schwartz

Do I agree we --

Councilman Nutter

-- is do you just take what the state gives you and call it a day? Or do you take that and plan continued reductions after you apply the state's money, is my question.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, that is the schedule we accepted in the Commission. And I do agree with that.

Councilman Nutter

Well, but you've made it very clear --

Mr. Schwartz

I'm merely saying that --

Councilman Nutter

-- in response to a couple questions -- I'm not absolutely 512 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget sure which hat is being worn at the moment, so what I want to know is, what is your personal opinion.

Mr. Schwartz

Oh, I think my personal opinion is that it's got -- it's got to benefit tax reform. And the logical way to do it is the wage tax reduction. I am very concerned that we have a parallel structure going on for business tax reduction.

Councilman Nutter

I understand that. Let me ask you --

Mr. Schwartz

But -- And I also think that having a huge base beyond of support for the City through the wage -- for the wage tax -- in one way or another relieves pressure on the budget, that permits the business taxes which is the other costly part of the program.

Councilman Nutter

Let me ask this question: Did you testify at budget hearings for the FY '01, '02, '03 or '04 budget hearings?

Mr. Schwartz

Boy. Well, if you're 513 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget asking me for a choice among all four, the answer is, yes, I testified one year when the -- the last time the wage tax issue came up, I believe.

Councilman Nutter

That was in '92, but that --

Mr. Schwartz

No. The proposed...

Councilman Nutter

I mean, that was in '02. It was Bill 92.

Mr. Schwartz

Okay. It's possible. That was in the spring of 2002. But that was on that specific bill. That wasn't related to the budget. My question was: Have you testified about the City budget...

Councilman Nutter

...in '01, '02, '03 or '04?

Mr. Schwartz

I have not.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. So, your testimony, though, makes reference to the fact that City government has been living beyond its means for the past four years. Our annual operating deficits were 514 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget as follows: In '01 it was $65 million. In '02 it was $91 million. In '03 it was $48 million. In '04 it was $77 million. Those were our annual deficits. Together they add up to $281 million. You've expressed a great deal of concern about our present budget, now going into the future. Why is it that you didn't testify in any of those budget years about the fact that we were running annual operating deficits?

Mr. Schwartz

Because at that point I wasn't here to testify on anything, really. I had other work to do which is the work that I do do.

Councilman Nutter

I understand that. But you're very concerned about these issues.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, but now I am as a basis for making a judgment with -- which -- about life as we move forward. Your were here. This is what happened. I have to make a judgment of the future based on the past. 515 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget The last three and a half years have been the following: First there was --

Councilman Nutter

Well, was it inappropriate?

Mr. Schwartz

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Councilman Nutter

Was it inappropriate for us to pass those budgets with those operating deficits?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I wasn't here, but I certainly think it was never raised, really, as a basis. It wasn't clear to me until actually the last six months.

Councilman Nutter

It wasn't a secret.

Mr. Schwartz

No, it wasn't a secret.

Councilman Nutter

It's in the budget -- (Mr. Schwartz began speaking simultaneously with Councilman Nutter, not reportable.)

Councilman Nutter

It was testified to by the Budget Director.

Mr. Schwartz

It certainly -- It 516 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget wasn't a secret, but I can tell you as somebody who was not here and not spending my time looking at this set of questions, it certainty wasn't apparent how much the surplus was and what impact the reductions would have.

Councilman Nutter

Everybody in the City knows that we had a $295 million surplus at the end of...

Mr. Schwartz

No. I can assure you -- Maybe from here it looks like --

Councilman Nutter

...FY 2000.

Mr. Schwartz

Maybe from here it looks like everybody in the City knows this. I can assure you that that is not the case because for the last few years I have not focused intensively as to what has been going on in this process, until the wage tax battle. And that battle then prompted me to raise a little bit of money from a foundation and spend months a year ago doing a neighborhood guide to the City budget, because I figured it was time for 517 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget me to get back and understand what was happening. Now, even in that one, I did not go back to the capital plans -- rather, the five-year plans, prior to 2003 and '4. It was in doing that this time that I suddenly realized -- it helped explain it -- I could not understand, frankly, how year after year things that looked to me like they were going to cost a lot of money did not end up in deficits. Now I understand why. And the point is -- I didn't testify then. But it becomes a basis for asking, well, what's next? We've reached a point at this moment where that happened in the last four years. So, why are we not going to take the... If we continue to operate on that basis in the next year, then we're in serious financial trouble.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. So let's go back to one of the other questions. Your assumption was, notwithstanding the fact that you put out in the report, and it 518 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget is throughout the report, that there should be a ten-year plan, your assumption was that we would do it on a year-by-year basis.

Mr. Schwartz

That is correct.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Now, is that philosophy or direction written anywhere in the report?

Councilman Nutter

Is there anything in any of the three volumes that says it's a ten-year plan that should be implemented on a year-by-year basis?

Councilman Nutter

That's not in your report.

Mr. Schwartz

It doesn't say anything that I -- Well, no, it does not. But that was the assumption that I -- It's certainly the assumption I had. And it was the basis of whatever decisions or judgments I was making about how to pursue the implementation of this plan. And for the first... whatever it is. 519 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget We're now in May. So for the last three or four months before there particular phase of the battle came about, I was engaged in a pretty intensive discussion about what the Administration would do this year, and what the projection would be beyond that. And in my testimony here, I pointed out that I was very concerned, and I thought it was appropriate to be concerned, that whatever commitments were made were only this year, and it dribbles away from there. So that there's a real challenge on the spending side, perhaps on the philosophy side, to get this fulfilled beyond that.

Councilman Nutter

You've made reference on a number of occasions to the Administration. Do you have regular discussions or contact with the City Administration or the Budget Office or the Finance Office about the City's finances?

Mr. Schwartz

Yeah. I do now.

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry? 520 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

The Finance -- The Finance -- The Budget Office, particularly.

Councilman Nutter

The Budget Office?

Mr. Schwartz

I use that to just get answers to questions about the budget.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And --

Mr. Schwartz

And I do have that discussion. I want to be informed on that, since I'm now pretty heavily involved on it.

Councilman Nutter

And is that on a pretty regular basis?

Mr. Schwartz

Yeah. I mean, it's not a pre-scheduled regular basis. But if I have a question or two about what does this mean or what are the potentials for that, et cetera, yeah, I'll call up and get an answer.

Councilman Nutter

And have those recent discussions influenced your recent views?

Mr. Schwartz

The facts have influence my recent views, not arguments 521 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget that anybody made about what was going on. Just simply the facts. I've tried to get a handle on what's going on. I make my own decisions on this, and nobody's arguments about this situation has persuaded me, to answer your question. I did my own analysis, my own consideration of what, in fact, I thought the pension contributions would represent. And by the way, much of that also was done not with anybody's --

Councilman Nutter

Well, your earlier statement was -- I mean, your analysis is based on either information or documents given to you by the Budget Office, correct?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, yeah, five-year plans, right. It's not some secret group of documents I'm getting from them that are not publicly available.

Councilman Nutter

Right. Do you just kind of sit over in the corner and read them on your own or do you have, like, a real meeting and a discussion and a -- 522 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

No. I read them on my own.

Councilman Nutter

-- conversation about what the different issues are.

Mr. Schwartz

No. I read them on my own.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. But you do have meetings and discussions.

Mr. Schwartz

No, I don't have meetings particularly to discuss anything. I make phone calls for specific pieces of information. I don't meet with them.

Councilman Nutter

Didn't we just have a conversation last night where you told me that you had a discussion somewhere in the past day or so with the Budget Director, who reminded you about the impact of all this on the five-year plan?

Mr. Schwartz

No. I did ask the Budget Director myself to confirm -- It was over the phone. I had already concluded that that would be the impact. And I called to confirm whether that would be the impact. And I've also called 523 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget a couple of places outside of the Budget Office to ask the same question, to get two or three different views of it. But I reached that conclusion myself. And then I wanted to check out whether I was right or wrong. And, yeah, I called them. And I called a couple of other places. And they all agreed that that, in fact, was the case.

Councilman Nutter

How do you... I guess what I'm also trying to understand, I mean there seems to be a fairly significant... call it a gulf or maybe a chasm, some distancing, if you will, between your perspective on all of this and many of your fellow Commissioners. All of you went through the same process. 14 out of 15 signed off on or agreed to the same document. Many of the Commissioners have taken a very pro Tax Reform Commission report posture. Yours is in recent times glaringly different. 524 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

Yeah, but I have to --

Councilman Nutter

Do you think they're less informed, less concerned, less knowledgeable about the issues or just not paying attention to the same things that you are?

Mr. Schwartz

There were people 10 on the Commission. There were several 11 people on the Commission whose concerns 12 about the overall City budget and the 13 services that I'm raising were very much 14 paramount in their thinking about it. 15 And what I think I was able to do as Chairman, was to negotiate a process over time, that persuaded everybody that this was a worthwhile route to take. And in fact, to go back to Councilman Kenney's comments, what also made it possible for us as a group to come up with that was the premise that as a Commission we were not looking at the budget in any specific way, that we were merely asked the way people doing the 525 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Convention Center were asked, to create the blueprint. Your characterization was exactly right. It is now May. Of the people who 6 were on this Commission, I would say that 7 there are 9 or 10 who have not been heard 8 of or seen since. 9 If we called all 15 of us together 10 and had this discussion -- I don't want to 11 put words in people's mouth -- but in fact, 12 I would say that you would get a diversity 13 of opinion from all 15 on the issue that 14 I'm talking about. And it would not be 15 overwhelming one way or another. But there would certainly not -- The people who are doing this now, I have great respect for what they do, and who they are, and where they're going. This is what they want to do. But if you're asking what the whole Commission would do if we were meeting, that's a very different question. And in fact, it was my responsibility to try to help bridge a gap 526 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget that did exist, even within my own mind, between the claims of other things in this government and tax reform. And there was also another process which we did go through, and which we do, I think all agree on, on the critical necessity of this to the life of the City. There was disagreement about that initially. I think the out of votes that 12 we got represented an agreement that this 13 was a critically important agenda for the 14 City to pursue. And the blueprint we set 15 forth was critically important to pursue. So that we agreed on. But there were certainly a number of discussions throughout the Commission about how this would affect City services. And in fact, it was said over and over again from the first day, when Bob Inman who wrote the tax reform articles that got some of this started. And he came to testify to us that if on the basis of reducing taxes we either 527 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget unbalance the City budget or undermine City services, then the economic gains that were projected for tax reform would be lost. And that came up again and again. So do I see what I'm doing as inconsistent with the discussion that we had?

Councilman Nutter

But aren't you in the chicken and egg situation?

Mr. Schwartz

No, I do [sic] not. That was central to the way in which I was able -- we were able to come together, 13 to 1. That was exactly that proposition. 14

Councilman Nutter

How do you ever get the revenue gains from the plan if you don't implement it?

Mr. Schwartz

Early on you don't get revenue gains. So at that point the question really was, in terms of socially --

Councilman Nutter

But you send a very strong message --

Councilman Nutter

-- to people trying to make decisions -- 528 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

We sent a --

Councilman Nutter

-- of what your commitment is.

Mr. Schwartz

Councilman, we did two or three things here. I chaired a revenue committee. It was my idea to do it. Some of the things that are in this budget now that are causing trouble, like increasing the parking tax -- I see parking lot owners now have that all over the place. The increased revenue collections that are there, some of the other fee -- the notion of charging for right-of-way fees, all of that was in our revenue committee because we understood that whatever economic benefit or you want to call it supply side effect would not happen in the first year. That's first. And then secondly, I think everyone had some notion that we didn't discuss, over where the fat was in the City budget. Some felt that the government as a 529 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget whole is really inefficient and we could always find the savings to make it. I felt that the crime was -- you know, we'd increase that budget by about $80 million. So, in our own minds, we found a way to support this as socially and fiscally responsible. I don't think that -- And so that was the basis in believing that we could implement and pursue the first two or three years. And then we did say that any of the fiscal assumptions that we are providing do not include the added benefits of economic development. And we hoped that it would. But the discussion very hard -- That was the issue. Who doesn't want to reduce taxes, particularly in the context that we're creating? I mean, you'd have to be crazy not to. But then there's this other thing called the government.

Councilman Nutter

You do have to be crazy not to. 530 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

That's the point.

Mr. Schwartz

I understand.

Councilman Nutter

That's the point.

Mr. Schwartz

I agree. I spent a whole year of my life on that preposition. [sic].

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

And it certainly was not something I initially sought. So, I mean, I paid those dues. But my life, in evaluating the rest of the government and the budget, was not handed in in perpetuity, that I had to remain --

Councilman Nutter

There's nothing in --

Mr. Schwartz

-- quiet on some of those issues during the year --

Council President Verna

Councilman Nutter --

Councilman Nutter

There's a point 531 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget of order over here. There's nothing in perpetuity in any of those documents...

Mr. Schwartz

Well...

Councilman Nutter

...Mr. Schwartz.

Mr. Schwartz

...I'm referring more back to Councilman Kenney's comments, of how could I be testifying; it was not my job to talk about the budget. And it wasn't during that year.

Councilman Nutter

I understand.

Mr. Schwartz

And I didn't.

Councilman Kenney

Point of information, Madam President.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney for a point of information.

Councilman Kenney

This quick point of information because I have to go pick up my son at school. This is an excerpt from the 21st Century Review Forum, final report, March 11, 2004. Tell me if you agree with this statement or not. 532 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget The City should move quickly to adopt the major recommendations of the Tax Reform Commission, even if expenditures have to be reduced to cover the initial tax revenue shortfall. In bold, the Mayor's very important quality of life strategies will not have the desired impacts or be sustainable in the long run in the absence of fundamental tax reform.

Mr. Schwartz

I agree with that. And I'm...

Councilman Kenney

So --

Mr. Schwartz

But we -- Looking -- You asked -- This is about dollars and cents, real money.

Councilman Kenney

Yeah.

Mr. Schwartz

It's not about abstractions.

Councilman Kenney

It's about expenditures and revenue shortfalls, and --

Mr. Schwartz

Yes; and the fact is that the budget you are being asked to vote on cuts departments by as much as five, 533 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget seven, to a hundred percent, all of them but about eight or nine. One of the few increases in this budget, in fact, is $3.9 million more to the Board of Revision of Taxes, to be able to implement our real estate assessment agenda --

Councilman Nutter

We're not --

Mr. Schwartz

-- and another $10 million in lost revenue from single sales tax or apportionment.

Councilman Nutter

We're not increasing that through the budget --

Mr. Schwartz

So right now --

Councilman Nutter

-- Mr. Schwartz.

Mr. Schwartz

-- the question is, how do you apply that abstract statement to a real budget?

Councilman Kenney

That's our problem.

Mr. Schwartz

No. It's the problem of the --

Councilman Kenney

That's what put -- 534 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

I do not believe --

Councilman Kenney

That's what put us here.

Mr. Schwartz

No. It's a citizen's judgment as to what you think is being right and wrong. Citizens can make those judgments, too. We don't all have to sit back here and say, this is your job, particularly this citizen who has spend as much time on these issues as anybody in this room in any capacity, and has read as much, if not more, about all of it.

Councilman Kenney

Well, then you should file for the next election and run at-large, and see if the people agree with you --

Mr. Schwartz

I don't think --

Councilman Kenney

-- but until that happens, I don't think you have a right to come in here, after all this work, and submarine this effort.

Mr. Schwartz

Are you saying that I don't have a right as a citizen to come in 535 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget here and express my views on the City budget?

Councilman Kenney

Yes, you can. But you can be called to task because you're trying to submarine this effort which I think is what's up.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm not trying to submarine this effort.

Councilman Kenney

But based on --

Mr. Schwartz

I really am not. I have a different view right now of what it will take to implement this. And I regret the fact that it may be interpreted as I don't agree with it or that I'm trying to submarine it. That's other people's conditions. I made my own commitments here. It was not a discussion here, until about three or four weeks ago, about going through the total passage of the legislation as the vehicle to get all of this done. We were discussing various specific things we could do, and I was working very 536 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget hard on that, and will continue to work very hard on it. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Point of information.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco for a point information. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I have two meetings at 7 o'clock in Port Richmond, so I will be leaving. I am just really totally baffled by some of those comments that are being made today. The Tax Reform Commission was mandated built people, voted on to be put in place. The Commission was charged with looking at ways in which we can reverse the trend of job loss and the downward spiral of the City of Philadelphia. Recommendations were put forth. We're dealing with them now. It goes back to what I've said earlier, and a number of us have been saying for the last couple days. If we do 537 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget nothing, it's just the continuation of what we've been experiencing for the last decade or two decades, three decades. At some point, taking into consideration your concerns about cutting service and all, we have to do something different. If we don't, we just wasted a year of the Tax Reform Commission's time.

Mr. Schwartz

And I would feel -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: let me finish.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm sorry. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Half a million dollars of the taxpayer's' money that was spent to or whatever it cost --

Mr. Schwartz

$375,000. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: $375,000, half a million. A considerable amount of money. $500,000. Let's not debate three seventy-five versus five hundred. We have a five-year budget. Based on everyone's best estimate, there's going to be deficits over the next five years. We will probably be looking at a budget next year where we will probably be faced 538 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget with cuts in services, closing rec centers, the same kind of stuff we're going through this year. That means that the recommendations of the Tax Commission will not be put forth next year or the year thereafter or the year thereafter, at least for the next five years. When do we implement meaningful tax reform to get this show under way --

Mr. Schwartz

Well -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- to make a difference? Because if we don't do it now, the opportunity, I think, will be lost for the next generation --

Mr. Schwartz

Well, let me -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- and we have to take a risk, if you will, to make the meaningful reforms that the Commission has presented for us to do today.

Mr. Schwartz

I understand that perspective. And as I said in my testimony, we are now faced with a choice of either pursuing the legislation or 539 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget nothing will happen. And I believe that some mechanism to hold the Administration accountable toward progress in this area or to hold the government accountable in some way would be completely appropriate. And I would fully support it, and I would participate in it.

Councilman Nutter

What would that be?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I think that -- I mean, I've been giving a lot of thought to how you do it. (Councilman Nutter began speaking, away from the microphone, not reportable.)

Councilman Nutter

That's what we do.

Mr. Schwartz

But the laws have other consequences.

Councilman Nutter

Always.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I'm dealing, then, with the particular -- Now I will say, Councilman --

Councilman Nutter

Always.

Mr. Schwartz

-- that this is 540 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget where --

Councilman Nutter

So, no. 4

Mr. Schwartz

This is where you're here --

Councilman Nutter

Respond to Councilman -- Finish what you were laying out to Councilman DiCicco. What is this new-found mechanism to hold the government responsible and accountable to implement this plan?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I think some kind of an implementation committee -- I mean, committee that would be set up that...

Councilman Nutter

Implementation committee. Go ahead. An implementation committee. Another committee. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Mr. Schwartz, another committee for another year? This is typical Philadelphia, you know. We just don't have the guts, if you will...

Councilwoman Tasco

Chutzpah. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: ...to take... Thank you, Councilwoman Tasco, but I won't 541 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget repeat that for the record. I read your lips quite clearly. ...to take the initiative to make the bold, dramatic steps to get something done. (Mr. Schwartz began speaking simultaneously with Councilman DiCicco, not reportable.)

Mr. Schwartz

I'm talking about -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And I've said this and I -- If we do not do something, we will continue down that path of a slow but sure death as a City. There's no reversing it. We have come to that realization in the eight years that I've been here, even with the incremental wage taxes, which I know you didn't support back in 2002. But we've seen some gains in those collections. Some people say it's only because of salaries that have been increased. But we did send a signal. Even with our best efforts that we've done to date, 542 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget nothing has really been a dramatic, a dramatic way in which we've addressed tax reform, until this Commission report was put forth. There's just... For me it's very simple. We either do it or we don't. Because we could sit her until the cows come home and debate on all these other issues. We're either going to do it or we're not. And I do understand where Councilman Nutter and Councilman Kenney are coming from. As the Chair of the Commission, it was shocking for me to hear your testimony the other day, after having -- and as my colleague, Councilman Nutter, so eloquently described, your public statements over the last few months, the day of the hearing to -- It does seem like it's a submarine job to me --

Mr. Schwartz

Well -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- with no 24 disrespect to you, but that's what it sounds like. 543 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

Well, it may sound like that. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck --

Mr. Schwartz

It certainly -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- it's a duck.

Mr. Schwartz

In terms of what we --

Councilman Nutter

It's a duck.

Mr. Schwartz

-- the whole -- this Commission discussed as the framework for this, it is entirely consistent with the nature of that discussion. It was the center of that discussion. What could we do to be sure that it was affordable? I would also say that I -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Sorry to interrupt. If the discussion was centered around what you're saying -- and I believe that -- a decision was made to put forth a list of bills or recommendations for tax reform. It's good that you discussed these 544 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget things, and we appreciate that. But your ultimate decision was a tax reform package.

Mr. Schwartz

Yes. And I -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: What's happened to go back --

Mr. Schwartz

I am acknowledging -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- into that discussion again?

Mr. Schwartz

I am acknowledging we're back to the first thing I said. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We're back to square one.

Mr. Schwartz

And I would take some responsibility -- No, I don't think we're that far back. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, to me it is.

Mr. Schwartz

Well...

Councilman Nutter

Mr. Schwartz, let me ask you this question --

Mr. Schwartz

I mean, I am acknowledging that there was not a discussion of legislation.

Councilwoman Tasco

Point of 545 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget information.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilman Nutter

It was a requirement of the Commission, Mr. Chairman. It was required in the legislation that you put forward in the Charter change. It was required that you put forward legislation.

Mr. Schwartz

I know.

Councilman Nutter

It wasn't an option.

Mr. Schwartz

And -- Well, let me say this --

Councilman Nutter

It didn't say do it if you feel like it.

Mr. Schwartz

No, no, no, no. 19 There was not a discussion of the particular bills here by the entire Commission. This issue was not --

Councilwoman Tasco

They were printed.

Mr. Schwartz

Well...

Councilwoman Tasco

They were 546 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget printed. They came --

Councilman Nutter

I don't have anything to do with that.

Mr. Schwartz

They were printed --

Councilman Nutter

You gave us three volumes, they're in the bills, you gave me a disk, the bills got introduced. It was a requirement of the work.

Mr. Schwartz

I know that.

Councilman Nutter

And what you discussed or what you didn't discuss, that's your business. You Chaired the Commission.

Councilwoman Tasco

I just have one question. When Councilman Kenney read you the point about the tax reform has to go forward in spite of any cuts -- and you said you believe that -- what did you expect?

Mr. Schwartz

Well...

Councilwoman Tasco

I mean, if you said, well, if we want to go forward and there has to be -- might have to be cuts and expend -- So what did you expect when 547 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget you had to make the cuts?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I think it's a matter of the level of cuts and where --

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, then it's --

Mr. Schwartz

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I mean, we're not talking about -- You want to make it all or nothing, fine. It's not all or nothing. You look at a real budget and see what the real situation is.

Councilwoman Tasco

So --

Mr. Schwartz

This real budget has a real situation attached to it.

Councilwoman Tasco

Would you like to have a little bit of an expenditure, a middle bit expenditure or a lot --

Mr. Schwartz

I don't think we have in this --

Councilwoman Tasco

-- of expenditure?

Mr. Schwartz

I don't think that --

Councilwoman Tasco

I mean, at what point would cuts be acceptable, if you're 548 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget saying it's okay that we move this forward, in spite of the fact that there will be cuts?

Mr. Schwartz

I don't think anybody I know anticipated that we would have a budget that would cut departments facing us as a City...

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, we had the budget --

Mr. Schwartz

...by five to seven --

Councilwoman Tasco

We had the budget announcement in March.

Councilman Nutter

March 18th.

Councilwoman Tasco

And as Councilman Nutter says, a whole month, almost two months later, all of a sudden it dawned on you that there were going to be cuts?

Mr. Schwartz

No. I think two months later -- During the two --

Councilwoman Tasco

Two months later -- 549 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

Whoa, whoa, whoa. During the two-month period that we're talking about, I spent most of my time pushing the Administration to include as much of the agenda that I could push them to include, despite all of those cuts. That's the way I spent from March to May. Whether it was -- and single factor apportionment was one, and there were two or three others, and there were conversations along those lines. The only... The change occurred when, in fact, a decision was made that we would now operationalize the schedule of tax reductions over a five-, ten-year period. And you asked me what I thought the alternative was. Maybe you don't think it makes any sense. But that was my commitment. I sat here for seven years, you know, during -- I mean, in and out of the place, during which time a debate over building a new Convention Center was 550 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget occurred. And it was absolutely clear that until a Convention Center was built, that we would not have expansion of tourism. That took about five or six years. And I have been through other things in my life that have taken a long time. To me, what this plan does, is to provide benchmarks and schedules, whether they're enshrined in law or they're there. And if you're serious about it, you take those seriously; and I do.

Councilman Nutter

Well, we are very serious about it. The only problem is, as you've laid it out, there's no 17 implementation date because you've got to have the perfect storm of fiscal environment before you can do anything. And as you well know --

Mr. Schwartz

I don't think that --

Councilman Nutter

-- it just doesn't work that way.

Mr. Schwartz

I just don't accept -- 551 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

Just doesn't work that way.

Mr. Schwartz

I don't accept the reality that you're painting. You're saying a perfect storm. I don't think we need that. But at the other extreme, a $288 million additional contribution of the pension --

Councilman Nutter

And Mr. Schwartz, what's the total amount of spending or the total amount of City budget over that same five-year period? You keep talking about $288 million. What's the City's budget presently?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, it would be, in terms, of locally collected taxes.

Councilman Nutter

No. What's the entire City budget?

Mr. Schwartz

No; I don't think that's relevant. I think the $1 billion we receive from Harrisburg and other levels of government are not affected. $930 million -- 552 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

Don't we spend those dollars here?

Mr. Schwartz

-- are not affected by the local taxes.

Councilman Nutter

Fine. However you want to narrow it. However you want to narrow it down. But it is our City budget. It is what we ultimately end up spending. But even in the narrow case, if you want to have a billion and a half dollar discussion, what's a billion and a half times five?

Councilman Nutter

Okay. $288 million. It's 7.5. $288 million, $7.5 billion of spending. So, I mean, if you're going to give the first part of the answer, give the second part of the answer as well. We don't need to jerk each other around here. Let me ask you this question. You mentioned earlier... You made reference on 553 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget a couple of occasions you work on... What is it called, the Citizen's Guide to the Budget?

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And you do that as a part of your work.

Mr. Schwartz

I did it that year, yes.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Does it still go on or do you have other --

Mr. Schwartz

I did not --

Councilman Nutter

-- things you can --

Mr. Schwartz

I did a one-year report. I guess the work that I'm doing -- Last year I did the Tax Reform Commission.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

This is the one-year report. I haven't done it this year.

Councilman Nutter

Is that work conducted on behalf of the City?

Councilman Nutter

Is it a part of any City obligation or City contract work 554 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget that you have?

Mr. Schwartz

No. No. 4

Councilman Nutter

Well, what is it that you do on behalf of the City?

Mr. Schwartz

I work with the City on... I've had a housing project involving helping neighborhood groups connect to various departments. And I do work in relation to the internet, and help neighborhood groups and citizens get contact with elected officials and one another around issues of concern to them. And I do a web site. And I do a neighborhood page for the City web site. Those are the two things I do for the City.

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry. Say that again. You help people connect to the government?

Mr. Schwartz

Yeah. Any given day we have about 1200 people on an e-mail list that connect to each other about how to solve problems like, there's trash in my block or what's going on with the schools. There's a web site called 555 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget phillyneighborhoods.org which is visited by about 10, 15,000 times a month, that provides people with access to information that's relevant to their understanding of the City government.

Councilman Nutter

If someone's trash didn't get picked up, why wouldn't they just either call the Streets Department or call a Council member's office or someone?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, as it happens, it's been extraordinarily helpful to people to be able to connect with one another around these concerns, and to connect with the Streets Department online. And many of them have gotten a lot of results from the work that we've done. And in fact, many of --

Councilman Nutter

Well, wait a minute. If you wanted to connect to the Streets Department online, wouldn't you just go to www.phila.gov --

Mr. Schwartz

Well, yeah, except --

Councilman Nutter

-- and check on 556 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget the Streets Department?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, except that until I did the neighborhood page for that page, there was no -- for that -- for the City's web site, there was no easy one-stop shopping there for all these neighborhood concerns.

Councilman Nutter

All right. Let's go back for a second. The Citizen's Guide to the Budget --

Councilman Nutter

-- which you referred to on a couple occasions --

Councilman Nutter

-- this was an old project, but you don't do it any more.

Mr. Schwartz

I did it one year -- two year -- I did it two years ago.

Councilman Nutter

Two years ago.

Mr. Schwartz

It came out just before the Commission was meeting.

Councilman Nutter

All right. But presently you have a contract with the City of Philadelphia, based on internet issues 557 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget and neighbors connecting to each other.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. All right. Who is that through?

Mr. Schwartz

Mayor's Office of Information Services.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

And by the way, that was offered to me as a contract by the previous Director of MOIS, and had been in discussion even in the previous Administration.

Councilman Nutter

Well, how long have you had the contract?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, the specific contract with MOIS has been two years. The funding for it, the activity, was about three. But at the very beginning of the term, as Brian Anderson was leaving, he wanted us to do this as part of his revamping of the City's web site. There were other staff people there who were for it. So at that point it 558 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget became a question -- Even a letter of commitment was put out, and then it was a question of whether -- where the money would come from.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Does it cause you any, I guess, either concern or sense of any potential feeling of conflict to be in a situation where on the one hand you're on the Tax Reform Commission, you're advocating what you're advocating at that time, you're off the Commission and simultaneously performing contract work on behalf of the City?

Mr. Schwartz

It's --

Councilman Nutter

Doesn't that put you in a potentially compromised situation at times?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, it's something I think about a little, but I -- I -- I don't have to speak, you know?

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry.

Mr. Schwartz

I don't have to speak. If I choose not to speak on something, I don't. In other words, 559 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget because --

Councilman Nutter

Well, I understand that. But I mean, from time to time you must... I'm assuming because you love the work that you do, you must have some concern about the continuation of the contract. You must have to talk to someone from time to time about the contract.

Mr. Schwartz

Yeah. And I'd like to think that the basis -- And so far the basis of those discussions has been that work and how well it's going, and how many people we're serving, and the value that we're providing. There's been no other discussion about that.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Let's go back to some of the meetings and discussions about the current situation. Who specifically do you talk to or have you been talking with, with regard to the TRC work, 21st Century Review Forum, and then this interim period, as I've described it, between the press conference on the 15th and your testimony on the 10th. 560 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget When you talk to the Budget Office or people in the Administration, who do you talk to?

Mr. Schwartz

The regular conversation and for information is with Rob Dubow.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Do you ever talk to the Finance Director?

Mr. Schwartz

Very occasionally. Once maybe.

Councilman Nutter

Managing Director?

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Do you ever talk about the budget with the Mayor?

Mr. Schwartz

(Pause.) No, not directly, no. Not really, since the 21st -- The last direct conversation I had with the Mayor was --

Councilman Nutter

What do you mean not directly? Do you speak through someone?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, in other words, not in the same room. No. And even with 561 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Joyce, I really don't have any connection this.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Let me ask this question: With regard to what your view is, do the couple things that have been mentioned that the Mayor has laid out, what would be the savings to the average Philadelphian by implementing the proposals that you're prepared to support?

Mr. Schwartz

You mean in the City budget or... You mean, in the City budget or for the average citizen?

Councilman Nutter

For the average citizen.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I think that --

Councilman Nutter

You have proposed that there be a limited implementation of the many recommendations of the Tax Reform Commission. And so, in that context, for what you're prepared to support, those items are?

Mr. Schwartz

Let me just say, in the first year, which is what I was looking at, the City is short by about -- 562 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

No, no, no. I'm not talking about the City.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm talking about -- Look --

Councilman Nutter

I'm talking about an average citizen.

Mr. Schwartz

-- I'm looking at what the first-year agenda was.

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry?

Mr. Schwartz

I have looked at what the first-year agenda was.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

That was what was in my thinking. And there were two items that are not included in the Administration's response to the first-year agenda.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

The first one is that the wage tax reduction in the Administration's plan is short of what we proposed. And I did inquire as to how much money, in turn --

Councilman Nutter

The Administration doesn't have a proposal, as 563 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget it relates to the wage tax, other than pushing back the July 1 cut to January.

Mr. Schwartz

No, but there's a -- there's a regular schedule of wage tax reduction. And what I looked at is, if we simply follow --

Councilman Nutter

Those were put in place by City Council.

Mr. Schwartz

I am aware of that. Whoever put them in. Right now there is a regular schedule of wage --

Councilman Nutter

I understand that, but we don't need to talk about that --

Mr. Schwartz

Yes, because --

Councilman Nutter

-- because that's not a part of --

Mr. Schwartz

-- because the tax reform --

Councilman Nutter

-- that's not part of the TRC proposals.

Mr. Schwartz

Yes, it is.

Councilman Nutter

-- nor is it a part of the Mayor's proposal. 564 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

No. The TRC proposal included our own schedule for wage tax reduction.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

So the question of whether the TRC plan had an imprint on this was whether or not the Administration, and Council accepted that schedule as the basis for what you're going to put into this year's law. And the answer is -- Whatever you do, the answer is, the Administration's proposal does not include that. That to me --

Councilman Nutter

It does not include what?

Mr. Schwartz

It does not correspond to what the Tax Reform Commission said that the schedule ought to be.

Councilman Nutter

What's the difference?

Mr. Schwartz

It's about... A small -- small difference in percentage. I 565 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget don't remember exactly.

Councilman Nutter

All right. Well, why don't we make sure, as we're going through this --

Mr. Schwartz

And by the way, what impressed me was --

Councilman Nutter

Why don't we make sure what proposals are being proposed for the first year.

Mr. Schwartz

The other one that was far more significant, it seems to me, is the permission of partnerships, to deduct the cost of their employees from paying tax. And as I understand it, we are -- the business taxes were less familiar to me than the others, so I've had to play some learning here. But I think we were -- we are proposing that there's a -- that 50 percent of that be done in the first year. And I did ask --

Councilman Nutter

Is the average Philadelphian a partner in a -- 566 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

No, but I think we were --

Councilman Nutter

-- law firm or accounting firm or --

Mr. Schwartz

No. I think we were talking about a three-tiered program. And frankly, the cuts -- You're talking about jobs. The reductions in taxes for business would have been extremely, ironically, given my history, extremely important to me. We did not make a significant set of proposals beyond the wage tax reduction, in the wage tax field for individuals. And the other recommendations we made all revolve around real estate taxes. And those recommendations, it seems to me, are being pursued by the City-wide assessment. And they include the land tax. And as I testified here, I favor moving this year on the land tax incrementally.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

Those are the things 567 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget that were in our first year.

Councilman Nutter

Let's get back to the question. So for the average Philadelphian, excluding the schedule that is already in place for wage and business taxes, because I don't think you get to take any credit for that, the proposals that are out there support the Governor's tax reduction plan which will happen or not happen, aside from whatever we do, single factor apportionment probably won't affect many average --

Mr. Schwartz

That won't affect individuals.

Councilman Nutter

-- many average Philadelphians. Property tax assessment, to clean that up, which actually won't go into effect for two years, and the land value tax, what's the financial impact in the pocketbook of the average Philadelphian as a result of those proposals?

Mr. Schwartz

Not -- Well, the land tax ultimately will be helpful to a lot of people, and the assessment reform that we 568 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget would --

Councilman Nutter

Talking about in FY '05.

Mr. Schwartz

Very limited.

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry. I didn't hear you.

Mr. Schwartz

Minimal.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

But -- But the proposals, in fact, lead to a minimal kind of benefit. The major benefit in the first year really, it seems to me, is for the business taxes. And that, I think, if you did both of the thinks -- Well, even the single factor apportionment, I think, is significant.

Councilman Nutter

So --

Mr. Schwartz

And the partnerships --

Councilman Nutter

-- why don't we --

Mr. Schwartz

-- with a lot of law firms kind of downsizing and moving out -- 569 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

Why don't we conclude with this: So now that it's clear that, notwithstanding what all the reports say, that you have a ten-year plan, your view is that you would do things on a year-by-year basis. What, from your perspective, in your mind's eye, what should happen to the 10 bills proposed by the Tax Reform 11 Commission? 12

Mr. Schwartz

I don't even -- I 13 would say -- I -- I haven't looked at the exact number. I would pass many of them. Those are the two bills that I... I -- The bills that, in fact, mandate legally the -- the schedule of reductions are the ones that I have the most problem with. And then there are a couple of bills that do reflect specific issues where --

Councilman Nutter

Let me ask you this one last question.

Mr. Schwartz

You know, I might even agree with members of Council and disagree with the Administration, that they 570 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget ought to be passed.

Councilman Nutter

I promise this will be my last question. Is your concern that, for instance, the wage tax bill, 040009, is what you're really concerned about that if this bill were to pass, and it has a schedule, is it your concern that the members of this body, in the face of information that may indicate a need to either stop the next year's cuts or take some other action, is it your concern that City Council members just won't have the guts to do that?

Mr. Schwartz

No, it's not my concern. It's not a matter of guts, Councilman, because it would be rational. My concern -- Let's go back to the first exchange -- is that we have a $288 million additional pension requirement which I think is significant, as I look at it from the --

Councilman Nutter

It is.

Mr. Schwartz

-- departments.

Councilman Nutter

Right. 571 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

And we are already cutting departments after department, to a level that people are coming in here --

Councilman Nutter

Well, that may be related to --

Mr. Schwartz

-- and screaming about.

Councilman Nutter

-- the first part of your testimony, about the spending over the last four years.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, all right. But that is my concern.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

That over the next -- Well, the $288 million is beyond -- you know, unexpected beyond that. You know, we just led to that, and now we have this. So my concern is, how do you get hold of the spending side of this, to be able to do the tax reductions in a way that doesn't create devastation. That is my concern. And my commitment in the one area that I do know a little bit about, namely, 572 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget the reduction of crime --

Councilman Nutter

But isn't your concern resolved by --

Mr. Schwartz

-- at the same time on that set of questions.

Councilman Nutter

But isn't your concern resolve by the fact that if in the next year we haven't gotten ahold of the spending issues, then at budget time we would just stop the schedule? We could eliminate the rest of the schedule.

Mr. Schwartz

You could. But meanwhile --

Councilman Nutter

Why do you have so little faith that we would do that?

Mr. Schwartz

Because in the five-year plan, that has to be projected now, what will happen a year from now.

Councilman Nutter

I understand that.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, but then I think that we're putting into a five-year plan assumptions about service cuts that would be devastating on their face. 573 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

But they're in out years in the plan. It doesn't mean that they're --

Mr. Schwartz

No. I think that the amount -- The amounts, in fact, would go pretty -- Given... I'll look at this. It's an interesting question, in terms of what I think it would represent next year.

Councilman Nutter

You put a significant service cut in the five-year plan two years out. What I'm taking from you is somehow belief that that's automatically going to happen.

Mr. Schwartz

No. It's an assumption.

Councilman Nutter

Is that what you're saying?

Mr. Schwartz

Whether it's in or out, I think the objective would be not to -- not to -- I mean, to -- to be able to preserve as much as we can, and to get the full benefit of the revenues that are created.

Councilman Nutter

But it's in 574 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget later years. And isn't that all just a function of... Have you had a discussion with PICA about any of this?

Mr. Schwartz

I asked PICA only one question. It wasn't a long discussion. And that question was: Does the budget have to be in balance over the five-year period --

Councilman Nutter

Of course it does.

Mr. Schwartz

-- for you to approve it? And do you have to have confidence in what you see as a reasonable basis for making that decision? And the answer was yes. I just --

Councilman Nutter

Of course the answer was yes.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I just -- It's been a while since I -- You know, you're here all the time. I am not --

Councilman Nutter

Well, I mean, Joe Vignola testified to that at the beginning of the budget process.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I wasn't here 575 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget for that hearing.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

So, I mean, the question at that point is, what does it look like, and --

Councilman Nutter

And suppose the City Administration presented a five-year plan that was balanced and had out-year unspecified cuts, which that line has been in every five-year plan since we started doing five-year plans, that line, that language. Unspecified targeted cuts is a staple of the five-year plan. It's had upwards of $50, $60 million a year in it. Every one of those five-year plans has been approved.

Mr. Schwartz

I am not -- Yes, but the difference is -- And this is where the last four years is relevant -- The levels of cutbacks that we are facing now are dramatically higher than what you've had to deal with in the last five years because there's been a surplus. And at a moment 576 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget when we have --

Councilman Nutter

Which has been spent.

Mr. Schwartz

Wait. See, what is relevant --

Councilman Nutter

Which has been spent away, which by your own testimony -- You never came in here and said anything about it or raised any concerns about it. What did people think was going to happen when you spend up all the money?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, Councilman...

Councilman Nutter

What; it just magically reappears? What is it, like a candle that goes out and it comes back on like itself?

Mr. Schwartz

That's correct. So that's between... you know, here. I'm merely saying that this is where we are now. And it didn't happen.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

So the question is --

Councilman Nutter

This is where we are now. 577 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

And let me just say --

Councilman Nutter

And we've got two different reports that indicate that if we don't do something different, we're going to be in a worse place.

Mr. Schwartz

But if I --

Councilman Nutter

So tell me when. When do we do something? Give me a date.

Mr. Schwartz

You start now --

Councilman Nutter

Because we know next Thursday, according to Dr. Madden, we'll be in sixth place. They figured that out. So you tell me: When are we going to do something different?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I think, in fact, the reduction of the wage tax, the reduction of business taxes, the reduction of the business... the single factor apportionment, the movement toward a real real estate reform system, at a moment when a City like ours is experiencing significant fiscal crises, is quite different from what we have done and what 578 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget other cities are doing. You find me another city in the United States -- maybe there is -- that has embarked on a serious tax reduction program, that is now being amplified by our recommendations, when there is simultaneous --

Councilman Nutter

You show me another City has an array of taxes like we have, that has the highest wage tax, highest tax burden in the --

Mr. Schwartz

Councilman --

Councilman Nutter

-- United States of America.

Mr. Schwartz

Councilman, I --

Councilman Nutter

Show me -- Tell me another City.

Mr. Schwartz

Councilman, I spent a year working on this problem.

Councilman Nutter

Right. And the answer is? There aren't any.

Mr. Schwartz

Agreed. So, I did this for a year. It's not like, you know, it was something that I intended to do for 579 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget a year. I did it for a year, out of my concern --

Councilman Nutter

Well, I think you volunteered for it.

Mr. Schwartz

-- for that problem.

Councilman Nutter

No one made you do it.

Mr. Schwartz

But you see, Councilman, I will come back to where I started. I was here during the three years when this government went under, and I listened to similar vehement arguments...

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

...from behind the scenes.

Councilman Nutter

And I was here --

Mr. Schwartz

Councilman, let me finish.

Councilman Nutter

And I was here for the first four years when it recovered.

Mr. Schwartz

Yes. That was much different.

Councilman Nutter

So we have 580 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget slightly different perspectives on this.

Mr. Schwartz

You bet. Because what my perspective was is that everybody had a vehement and adequate argument about what we needed to do that was totally --

Councilman Nutter

Well, Mr. Schwartz, we --

Mr. Schwartz

-- incompatible with the --

Councilman Nutter

-- we didn't almost go under because we were cutting taxes.

Councilman Nutter

As a matter of fact --

Mr. Schwartz

At that --

Councilman Nutter

-- I think in those years, as I recall the campaign of 1991, I think the facts are is that the City raised taxes 19 times in the previous ten-year period, and you still had financial problems.

Mr. Schwartz

Yes. In those days the issue was the fact that we had 581 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget inherited a whole bunch of social problems for which the City had to take responsibility or face --

Councilman Nutter

Raising all those taxes sure didn't take us out of the problem, did it?

Mr. Schwartz

No, it did not. Well, it did immediately. But all I'm saying is, even with all of that --

Councilman Nutter

Yeah.

Mr. Schwartz

-- the City went --

Councilman Nutter

It's like an injection of sugar.

Councilman Nutter

It wakes you up for a moment and then you go right back to sleep. You get a short-term bump in revenues, and then everybody else figures out: You know, these people are just taking more money out of my pocket, and I'm going to leave. And so the next year you have less revenues, which causes you to raise taxes again. It's an endless spiral downward. 582 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

That's what happened.

Mr. Schwartz

And all I'm saying is that what really happened beyond that is that you had various people who thought whatever we were doing we could afford. And it was perfectly okay to vote for mutually inconsistent -- And the Mayor signed them. And two or three years of that, that projecting deficits into the future, which was the centerpiece of it, whether or not it had anything to do with lowering taxes, which it clearly didn't because Betsy Reveal was attempting to get us to raise taxes to meet deficits. But the central issue was in a way what we're discussing. It was a decision that you could project a deficit forward. And so in 1988 we could project that deficit to '89. And in 1990 we could project it into '91. And in '91 -- And we could borrow our way out of it, and we 583 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget could use creative techniques. Charley McPherson at that point was working for the Mayor, and I was --

Councilman Nutter

We did actually borrow our way out of it.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, yes, in the end --

Councilman Nutter

That's why we have an agency called PICA.

Mr. Schwartz

-- by imposition. But the --

Councilman Nutter

It's the undiscussed thing. If you borrow a billion dollars in a short period of time, your finances will improve, too. That's what we did.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm well aware of that.

Councilman Nutter

Which is what helped to --

Mr. Schwartz

But Councilman --

Councilman Nutter

-- build up the --

Mr. Schwartz

-- what I am 584 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget saying --

Councilman Nutter

-- $285 million surplus.

Mr. Schwartz

-- is the Council --

Councilman Nutter

The problem here is, you've got a bunch of people who are so scarred by the past that they can't figure out what the hell to do in the future.

Councilman Nutter

That's what the problem is.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, you may say that. What I see is, in fact, a period of time of time in which people said we could put our problems, and handle deficits, and they were doable and soluble.

Councilman Nutter

I know.

Mr. Schwartz

There was a difference --

Councilman Nutter

Now we're saying we're going to --

Mr. Schwartz

There was a different --

Councilman Nutter

Now we're saying 585 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget we're going to put off tax --

Mr. Schwartz

There was a different set of reasons --

Councilman Nutter

Now we're saying we're going to put off tax reform --

Mr. Schwartz

-- for the deficit.

Councilman Nutter

-- because things are just a little better.

Mr. Schwartz

That's exactly what I hear here. We are looking now at a budget that has got lots of problems, and we're saying, don't worry about it because you'll get --

Councilman Nutter

Nobody said don't worry about it.

Mr. Schwartz

-- put into the five-year plan. We will put into the five-year plan --

Councilman Nutter

Mr. Schwartz --

Mr. Schwartz

-- some general language --

Councilman Nutter

Mr. Schwartz, do I need to remind you how you got to be on the Tax Reform Commission, whether you 586 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget wanted to be there or not? Some of us didn't say, don't worry about it. Some of us said, let's have a more systematic, organized process to put something together. That's why we had a Tax Reform Commission in the first place.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm talking about --

Councilman Nutter

Then we got a report from dedicated, serious citizens, 12 who told us what to do. 13 Then we got another report two 14 months ago from another group of people, I 15 think a half a dozen --

Mr. Schwartz

I was involved in that report, too.

Councilman Nutter

-- sitting on a tax subcommittee who told us to what to do --

Mr. Schwartz

And now we have a real -- Now we have a real budget, not a hypothetical one, not a what-have-you-got-in-your head. You've got a real budget. 587 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

You think this is a real budget? You think this budget is going to get passed the way it is?

Mr. Schwartz

No, no. I'm just saying --

Councilman Nutter

You call that a real budget?

Mr. Schwartz

I'm just --

Councilman Nutter

You got to be kidding me.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm just saying that now you have a real budget to debate and resolve.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

With real money and not well-what-do-you-think-of-the-City-budget, but-we're-not-going-to-talk-about-it budget.

Councilman Nutter

Well, you're right about that.

Mr. Schwartz

So that's the reaction.

Councilman Nutter

That's why we 588 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget get paid the big bucks. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I cut you off.

Mr. Schwartz

No. I'm...

Councilman Nutter

Do you want to tell me something else?

Mr. Schwartz

No. I'm fine.

Councilman Nutter

All right. Okay. So your bottom line is, one year at a time, do what you can, and we'll see what happens. Is that pretty much the sum and substance of it?

Mr. Schwartz

Yes, but I would make one addendum to it. I do think that when I'm looking at this -- It's not -- It's not quite, you know, we're just going to look at one year and then let the next year take good care of itself. As I... And then, you know, you only do that year. As I see the timetable here is, we came out with our report, you know, earlier this year. And then the Mayor extended the budget process into the spring.

Councilman Nutter

Well, because he 589 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget had to wait and see what you guys were going to tell us from the 21st Century Review Forum.

Mr. Schwartz

(Laughing.)

Councilman Nutter

That was the public explanation.

Mr. Schwartz

Well...

Councilman Nutter

We had to wait.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm sure that was --

Councilman Nutter

And and 107 tells the whole story.

Mr. Schwartz

Is that what he really said?

Council President Verna

Yes.

Councilman Nutter

That was the public explanation: We can't introduce a budget --

Mr. Schwartz

For whatever --

Councilman Nutter

-- because we got to wait and see what the 21st Century Review Forum tells us, so we can incorporate that in the budget.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, let me -- 590 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

So then we get a budget two months late...

Mr. Schwartz

Well, actually it's interesting, because the budgets when we were around in those days, I believe, came out in March, around this time. And then it was moved to January which may be a good thing, but...

Councilman Nutter

It moved to January in 2000. We've had them in January ever since.

Mr. Schwartz

Right. All I'm saying is --

Councilman Nutter

This is first time we've had them in March.

Mr. Schwartz

By the way, I saw that as useful to the agenda that we were providing.

Councilman Nutter

No. It's been --

Mr. Schwartz

Because --

Councilman Nutter

-- unuseful and it's been a disservice to all the members of this City Council. 591 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

I'm not speaking to you -- I -- I understand --

Councilman Nutter

It's a little difficult to do in two months what you normally have four months to do.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm sure that's the --

Councilman Nutter

Just shows the wonders of time.

Mr. Schwartz

Given that what we were proposing was new and different and difficult, it gave us more time to lobby, which I did. But let me just say, we have a full year now from whatever it is you do --

Councilman Nutter

You lobbied for the same thing that you guys did in November.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm talking about the real battle within the Administration or with the Administration to accept as much of this package as we could get for --

Councilman Nutter

Well, I wouldn't know anything about that. 592 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I'm just --

Councilman Nutter

I haven't had a budget discussion.

Mr. Schwartz

No. I'm just saying to you --

Councilman Nutter

Well, thank you --

Mr. Schwartz

-- that that's, in fact --

Councilman Nutter

-- for fighting our battles. I appreciate it.

Mr. Schwartz

It was not your battle to fight; it was ours. And we did. And I did. Now, where this --

Councilman Nutter

I don't know. I guess I --

Mr. Schwartz

Well, single --

Councilman Nutter

-- mistakenly thought I was part of the budget process --

Mr. Schwartz

No, no. 22

Councilman Nutter

-- but if it's now --

Mr. Schwartz

I'm saying --

Councilman Nutter

If it's now been 593 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget out sourced...

Mr. Schwartz

-- in the preliminary --

Councilman Nutter

If it's been a Republican adoption of --

Mr. Schwartz

Councilman, I think you know --

Councilman Nutter

-- an out sourcing of the budget --

Mr. Schwartz

-- that --

Councilman Nutter

-- policy and process --

Mr. Schwartz

-- I didn't say that.

Mr. Schwartz

Councilman --

Councilman Nutter

-- I must have missed a memo.

Mr. Schwartz

I think you know I didn't say that. I really think you know I didn't say that. What I said, in fact --

Councilman Nutter

I didn't say you said that.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, what I said, in fact, is that Tax Reform Commission has an agenda. It's new, it's different. It came 594 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget out --

Councilman Nutter

Yeah, it has an agenda. It's called 28 recommendations.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, at this point --

Councilman Nutter

That's your agenda.

Mr. Schwartz

-- it was called in year 17, the following set of things should happen. The following set of things should happen this year, and we fought over those things. And having a little --

Councilman Nutter

That was the Tax Reform Commission's agenda, but now your agenda is different now than the --

Councilman Nutter

-- Tax Reform Commission agenda.

Mr. Schwartz

No. My agenda is not different, in terms of tax reform. It isn't. The questions --

Councilman Nutter

It's absolutely different. It's not consistent with anything in this document. I mean, we 595 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget could -- You know, look: You know me. We could sit here all night. I can read you page after page after page of what the Tax Reform Commission said and what it suggested be done, which is completely now different than anything you're talking about. You're not going to find: Do it a year for ten years in a row anywhere in this document.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, now, wait a second.

Councilman Nutter

You're not going to find: Do it if you think that everything will be okay. You'll find on a page that says, we acknowledge that there will be a fiscal impact.

Mr. Schwartz

Yeah, but what --

Councilman Nutter

But do it anyway.

Mr. Schwartz

Yeah. Well, what impact? And at what level? And Councilman, if you think that I 596 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget am the only one who is --

Councilman Nutter

Well, you know...

Mr. Schwartz

-- on this Commission who is sharing the perspective that I've brought here --

Councilman Nutter

If you had been able to do the other side of the job, which you weren't allowed to do, then, you know, maybe we wouldn't be having some of this discussion. But you know, as usual, as they say, there's still two things that you never want to watch being made, legislation and sausage.

Mr. Schwart

There's still two things what?

Councilman Nutter

, local implementation. Based upon review of economic literature and econometric research, the Commission believes that the recommended package of tax reform will generate significant economic growth. Of course, we can't talk about that. 597 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget That's not in the report. In the short term, while the economy adjusts, the Commission recognizes that its tax reform recommendations could have a fiscal impact. Do you remember that?

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

And it's a question of the level at which it was going to operate and what the real situation was.

Councilman Nutter

I understand. Well, look: It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. We can either make some serious changes or we can just continue to manage the decline. I mean, why don't we turn the City into a big hospice? We'll make everybody comfortable, and we'll die gracefully, but we'll do it with dignity.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, Councilman, I think that if we want to get this agenda through, which I did spend a lot of time with and agree -- 598 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

I know you did.

Mr. Schwartz

-- and helped shepherd it through --

Councilman Nutter

I liked it when you were --

Mr. Schwartz

-- and I think that we need to have --

Councilman Nutter

I liked it when you were on message.

Mr. Schwartz

-- a simultaneous, as I said before --

Councilman Nutter

I liked it when you were on message and on the same agenda. That's what I really liked.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I understand. I'm more complicated than one issue; that's true.

Councilman Nutter

Well... We don't want to go there. I'm sorry. I cut you off. Why don't you finish your statement.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm just merely saying that, in fact, the challenge really is to deal with the cost of crime. And now 599 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget we've discovered two other challenges that have become more serious: Namely, the medical benefits and the pension issue.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

Now, I don't know how much we can do about either of those.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

But I think we can do a lot, perhaps, about the cost of crime.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

And I plan to spend quite a lot of my own time --

Councilman Nutter

So as soon as we figure that out, we'll be in a much better position to do the other stuff. Is that where we are?

Mr. Schwartz

I'm not waiting the ten years to figure that out.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

I think that we need to have a measurable impact and significant on that one next year.

Councilman Nutter

Right. What's the -- 600 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

And I think, as I said --

Councilman Nutter

Well, let me ask you a question.

Councilman Nutter

What's the plan for that?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I have my own plan, to take -- You know, I've already started working at it. If you want me to go into it more carefully, I'll be happy to do that.

Councilman Nutter

No, not at the moment, but I appreciate you having a plan or some thoughts about it. Are they actually going to get implemented? I mean, are you making stuff happen within the government?

Mr. Schwartz

I'm making --

Councilman Nutter

Are you taking that job over in the Police Department?

Mr. Schwartz

I haven't got a complete... I started through the prisons. And have I talked to the Prison 601 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Commissioner? Yeah. Several times.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. All right.

Mr. Schwartz

Absolutely. See, I have my own idea of what to do here, and I'm doing it.

Councilman Nutter

No. I got it. I mean, like setting up a shadow government?

Mr. Schwartz

No. I'm an advocate.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Well, I'm sure this debate and this discussion will continue.

Mr. Schwartz

(Laughing.)

Councilman Nutter

And I appreciate you coming back. I appreciate your views. And I'll see you around.

Mr. Schwartz

And whatever happens with the bills -- I don't know what's going to happen -- I will say to you --

Councilman Nutter

What do you think should happen with the bills?

Mr. Schwartz

I think we should 602 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget get -- Well, I'll tell you: I think we should get as much out of the first year -- I haven't looked at every single bill to see which ones of -- of the... The Administration has agreed to what? Four? Brett.

Mr. Mandel

I'm still recovering from the "I haven't looked at every one of the bills."

Mr. Schwartz

Oh, I have looked at them, but I have looked at... I have looked at the bills. The question is where we stand now, in terms of which ones the Administration is not supporting that I might support, other than the two that we mentioned.

Councilman Nutter

Yeah. I mean --

Mr. Schwartz

And one of them has cost implications.

Councilman Nutter

Let's see what I've got here.

Councilman Nutter

We've got land value. 603 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

That's pretty --

Councilman Nutter

Repeal of the non-utilization tax which I think is not going anywhere because --

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I'm the one who introduced the -- got Councilman Anderson to introduce that bill originally.

Councilman Nutter

Yeah. Well --

Mr. Schwartz

If they would ever enforce it, I would be very happy.

Councilman Nutter

Yeah. Well, just -- You know, no one seemed to bother to do the research to find out that Councilman Clarke had actually amended it a couple years ago.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm aware of that now.

Councilman Nutter

And I think he's not too thrilled about having his bill 21 repealed.

Mr. Schwartz

We've talked.

Councilman Nutter

We're going to close. The Administration supports a transfer tax loophole closure. You know, 604 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget that's a tough one. And time limit on, I think, how far you can go back and collect money from people or appeal...

Mr. Schwartz

Support that. To the Administration --

Councilman Nutter

And they support, which are not a part of the Tax Reform Commission, increase in the parking tax, and pushing the wage tax cut back from July to January.

Mr. Schwartz

And my feeling there is --

Councilman Nutter

That's a winner.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, my feeling there is that the wage tax reduction we called for the level. It's not much. Should be implemented. And that, again, I think that the...

Councilman Nutter

It's not going to be implemented in July.

Mr. Schwartz

No, no. I'm saying that there's a schedule that we set forth for wage tax reductions. And I think that schedule should be the basis for the wage 605 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget tax --

Councilman Nutter

Well, I understand that; but, you know, that's caught up in your ten-year plan bill, Bill 6 9.

Mr. Schwartz

We're talking about the amount of money.

Councilman Nutter

Right. I know.

Mr. Schwartz

And that's a modest amount.

Councilman Nutter

Yeah. Okay. All righty.

Mr. Schwartz

Thanks. Anyone else?

Councilman Nutter

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. COUNCILAN NUTTER: It's been a pleasure.

Mr. Schwartz

All right. Thank you. Have a good evening.

Council President Verna

Thank you. This committee will stand in recess until Monday, May the 17th, at 9:30. Thank you. (Hearing concluded at 7:45 p.m.) 606 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings and ence are contained fully and accurately in the ographic notes taken by me upon the public ing of The Philadelphia City Council, taken on 12, 2004, and that this is a true and correct script of same. _____________________________ LISA C. BRADLEY _____________________________ DAVID A. DEIK, RPR and Commissioner of Deeds (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)