COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC PROPERTY AND PUBLIC WORKS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:35 p.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE, CHAIR COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE BILL 060894 - An ordinance authorizing the Commissioner of Public Property, on behalf of the City of Philadelphia, to acquire by condemnation or by purchase in lieu of condemnation certain easements for the purpose of a public right-of-way for a new bridge crossing the Schuylkill River through South Street. - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good afternoon. This will be the Committee on Public Property and Public Works. Will the Clerk please read the title of the first bill.
Bill No. 060894, an ordinance authorizing the Commissioner of Public Property, on behalf of the City of Philadelphia, to acquire by condemnation or by purchase in lieu of condemnation certain easements for the purpose of a public right-of-way for a new bridge crossing the Schuylkill River through South Street.
Thank you. We have a quorum present. To my left we have Councilman Juan Ramos, Councilman Fran Rizzo, Council President Ann Verna, Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller. Thank you. Call the first witness. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Good morning, Chairman Clarke and members 3 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 of the Committee on Public Property and Public Works. My name is Joan Schlotterbeck. I am the Commissioner of the Department of Public Property. I'm here today to testify in support of Bill 7 No. 060894, an ordinance authorizing me as the Commissioner, on behalf of the City, to acquire by condemnation or by purchase in lieu of condemnation certain easements for the purpose of a public right-of-way for a new bridge crossing the Schuylkill River through South Street. This bill will enable the City to acquire the property to assist the Streets Department with the expansion of the South Street Bridge in accordance with Bill No. 070046. These properties are required for both temporary construction and permanent placement of the South Street Bridge structure. I request that this bill be amended as described in the documents which I handed out today, which 4 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 substitute a new exhibit to the bill. I believe everyone has one of those in their possession at this point.
Have the amendments been circulated? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: It's the site plan.
Yes, they have. Thank you. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Which shows the easements as well as the properties to be acquired. Therefore, the Department of Public Property supports this measure and, accordingly, I respectfully ask that City Council approve Bill No. 060894. I also ask that the rules be suspended so that the ordinance may be passed through the second reading at Council. Thank you. I'm here to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner, the companion 5 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 bills were asked to be held at the request of the sponsor because of some community-related issues and some other technical issues. Is there a reason why this particular bill must be moved at this point in time? Is it time sensitive? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Yes. Basically, the entire effort would come to a halt. I need to be out ahead of the construction in my capacity as the Public Property Commissioner. I have to acquire these properties, otherwise they can't even begin their project. I have counsel here if you have any specific questions, but there doesn't appear to be any reason why we can't act -- of course, if you all agree -- on this particular bill, which will begin the process of acquisition of properties.
Thank you. Your word is good enough for me. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Thank you. 6 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894
Any questions of this witness by members of the Committee? Let the record reflect that Councilman Bill Greenlee has also joined us. Councilman Rizzo.
Commissioner, just quickly, in the notice it says "acquire by condemnation or purchase." Could you just in a nutshell tell us what you're going after, what type of properties and what you believe will be your strategy? Are you going to be able to work out a purchase or are you going to have to use condemnation? What exactly are you acquiring here, without looking through all this document? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Well, actually, if you take two minutes, on your far left, top half of that site plan, you'll see Property Owners, one through nine in the circles.
One through 7 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 nine? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Top left-hand corner, Councilman, Property Owners.
Okay. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Those are specifically who we were going to be acquiring from, inclusive of a couple of my own properties. We intend to purchase them. It is not our intention to take by condemnation. We have to wait -- we have gotten appraisals. PennDOT has those right now. As soon as they approve them, they will give them back to us and then we begin the process of acquisition.
Is any of this residential? Are there residential properties here? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: No. 23
Just open space that's owned by these particular people? 8 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Well, I don't know that it's open space. I think some of them are --
Well, what is going to happen here -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: All of it is open space.
Is the bridge that much bigger that this land is going to be required to construct a new bridge? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Well, I'm going to let Jack Lutz answer that, but I think the answer is, some of it is temporary and some of it is permanent. But, Jack, can you take that?
Thank you. John Lutz, Chief Bridge Engineer. We have color coded on your plans different types of easements. The yellow is a temporary construction easement both for construction lay-down and the ability for a contractor to build 9 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 this bridge and demolish it. Also, it has access points, three different access roads that are temporary.
Well, if they're temporary, couldn't we lease them and return them to the owner?
I don't believe so. This is the federal and state process of going through a right-of-way acquisition. We have to have this done before we get authorization to advertise.
But you used the word "temporary." "Temporary" to me means you need it and then you can give it back. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Actually, I used the word "temporary."
Thank you, Committee members. Leonard F. Reuter, that's R-E-U-T-E-R, from the Law Department. The way the acquisition -- because the project is federally funded and the federal funding goes through 10 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 PennDOT approvals at District 6, we're required to follow all the federal and, for that matter, PennDOT regulations with respect to the acquisition of the properties. We only get reimbursed -- we discussed earlier the 80 percent, 8 percent and then five percent City 9 contribution. We only get reimbursed on 10 the acquisition of the properties for the 11 actual condemnation value of the 12 properties. They build in a sort of what 13 they call an administrative buffer where 14 we can go above the appraisal value. 15 The process itself requires, as well as in fact the Charter and The Philadelphia Code, requires that any property interests that are acquired by the City have to be approved by Council. We would not -- my understanding is is that the practice of Public Property in acquiring something like a temporary construction easement would be to actually get -- just get an easement for construction. It wouldn't be 11 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 characterized as a lease per se. And I suppose like to a layperson it doesn't really seem like there's that much difference, but for purposes of how the acquisition works and how PennDOT requires the temporary construction easement to be acquired, they actually have a specific part of their regulations dealing with the acquisition of a temporary construction easement.
I'm just getting to look at these this morning at this hearing, and we held the process so we can talk to the community. I don't want to be part of allowing condemnation from people that I don't know that don't even agree with you. In other words, if you can work it out where they'll sell you this at a fair price, I'm okay with that. But I'll be honest, I'm not too excited about receiving this stuff this morning, don't even know all these property owners, whether they agree or disagree or they're going to resist. Or 12 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 can you tell me? Are all of them in agreement to sell the property?
Well, first of all, we are not able; in fact, we are actually forbidden, under federal and state regulations from actually discussing numbers. All of the property owners until appraisals -- see, appraisals have to be done. Those appraisals must be approved by PennDOT before we can start the negotiation process, in addition to under the local ordinance, you have to have --
I don't want to know numbers. Are the people willing to sell you the property or are you going to have to move forward and condemn the property?
All of the property owners and all of the interested parties are aware of the project. We have been working in very close conjunction with the major property owners, which would be Penn, AT&T and the 13 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 Railroad interests. We've also had Rapinesi, who is the owner of the property where the beer distributorship is.
Those properties -- and you will note, I mean, that's one of the reasons why these were color coded. We understand that these plans can be maybe a little bit obtuse to look at, but those property owners are only listed by way of reference. Those properties are not being affected. We are not acquiring any property from any of the -- we're not acquiring any residential properties. The right-of-way is not being widened at that point. They're just put here by way of reference really, because at the time the right-of-way plans were done, it was just 14 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 a full title search.
But I thought earlier I asked is there any residential property and the answer by someone was yes.
Thank you, Councilman. Any other questions of this witness? (No response.)
One brief question just for purposes of me understanding the process. Traditionally the City of Philadelphia uses the Redevelopment 15 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 Authority when we condemn properties, and I'm actually, frankly speaking, surprised that the City of Philadelphia; i.e., Public Property, has the authorization to condemn properties. Is that something new or have we always been authorized to condemn property?
Hi. My name is John Mondlak with the City of Philadelphia Law Department. The City does have limited powers of condemnation for specific purposes, including to condemn property easements land for bridges and bridge approaches. The Redevelopment Authority has much broader powers of condemnation, which is why we would typically use them for many of the projects that we undertake in the City. But the City has always had very specific limited uses of condemnation for airports. There's a number of them. There might be 20 or 30 different reasons, and this would fall under one of them. 16 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894
Could you just forward to the Committee members what powers we have as it relates to Public Property? Is it just Public Property or is it any departments?
It's the City, because the Public Property is the owner of property. For real estate purposes, they would actually do it. They could not do it without your authorization.
All right. It will be helpful if you could just forward that information in terms of our authorization and what we can and cannot acquire through condemnation.
You would have to authorize any condemnation for any of the purposes.
Thank you. Any other testimony? 17 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 (No response.)
Any other questions of these witnesses by members of the Committee? (No response.)
There being none, we will now go into the public meeting. Councilman Ramos, I'm going to ask for you to make a motion on the amendment that has been circulated.
I move that the amendment as previously described regarding Bill No. 060894 be adopted. (Duly seconded.)
It being moved and seconded, all in support of the amendment to Bill 060894? (Aye.)
The ayes have it. Councilman Ramos, I'll ask for 18 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 you to make a motion on Bill 060894 as amended.
I move that Bill No. 060894, as amended, be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the rules of Council be suspended to permit first reading of this bill at our next Council meeting. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 060894 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation. All in favor? (Aye.)
The ayes 19 2/14/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 060894 have it. Bill 060894 will be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation with a rules suspension as to allow reading at the next session of Council. Thank you very much. This concludes the Committee on Public Property and Public Works. (Committee on Public Property and Public Works adjourned at 12:50 p.m.) - - - 20 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on February 14, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)