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Minutes

Committee Hearing, April 20, 2004

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsApr 20, 2004

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COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, April 20, 2004, 9:50 a.m. BILL 040255 - An Ordinance adopting the Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 2005. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILMAN JUAN F. RAMOS COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN FRANK DI CICCO COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE L. BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Council President Verna

Good morning everyone. This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill No. 040255. Before we start our hearings, I would like to acknowledge students from the Discovery Charter School who are up in the balcony. If they would stand, we would like to recognize them. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Welcome. Our first department to testify will be Fairmount Park. Good morning. Welcome. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Ms. Borski

Thank you. President Verna and Members of City Council, my name is Karen Lloyd Borski and I am the Interim Executive Director of the Fairmount Park Commission. I am pleased to appear before you today to present on behalf of the Fairmount Park Commission our recommended Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 6 million operating budget for fiscal year '05. While our commitment to care for the City's green spaces continues to be our primary focus, there are major new initiatives on the horizon for the Fairmount Park Commission. Negotiations and planning continue for the occupancy of Memorial Hall by the Please Touch Museum. This project will not only expand a popular children's activity destination, but also invest millions of dollars into the restoration and stabilization of one of Philadelphia's most treasured landmarks. Scheduled to open in 2006, the Museum will greatly enhance the public's ability to visit and learn about Memorial Hall. Together with the Philadelphia Zoo, the Mann Center for the Performing Arts and neighborhood development in the Parkside area, this will breathe new life into West Fairmount Park. Plans are being made to create a Centennial District among these cultural 4 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 institutions on the very same grounds where our country celebrated its centennial anniversary in 1876. The Arthur Ashe Youth Tennis Center, currently on Main Street in Manayunk, will soon have a new home in Fairmount Park on the site of Gustine Recreation Center. Operated by Philadelphia Youth Tennis, this development will not only create an ultra-modern indoor and outdoor tennis facility, but also replace the existing 40-year-old recreation center with a new building with enhanced athletic and community use spaces. Savings will also be realized in maintenance costs, as the tennis center will become responsible for the entire Gustine site. A partnership with the School District of Philadelphia may also yield an important first for Fairmount Park. Sponsored by the Microsoft Corporation, plans are underway to create a state-of-the-art, technologically complete high "school of the future" on a seven-acre campus in West Fairmount Park. 5 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Such a development would foster a tremendous environment for advanced learning and also provide great benefits for the Parkside and West Philadelphia communities, while underscoring our belief that the Fairmount Park system really is the City's largest classroom. Most notable, of course, will be the implementation of the Fairmount Park Strategic Plan. Developed over the last months with 12 a vast outreach effort, this plan will provide 13 important recommendations to the Commission 14 and City Government on the management and 15 operations of the Park system, increased 16 revenue generation and opportunities for the 17 enhancement of partnerships and volunteer 18 support. 6 million in all classes. The Class 100 request of $9,398,448 is $264,248 below the fiscal year 2004 estimated obligations, due to decreases in overtime and temporary/seasonal preparations and savings created by the Deferred Retirement Option 6 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Program, DROP. These decreases are partially offset by an increase in staffing levels from 202 on the November 2003 increment run to 205 in fiscal year 2005. The Class 200 request of $2,742,509 is $300,000 below the fiscal year 2004 estimated obligations due to the non-recurring preparation for our Strategic Plan. The mission of the Fairmount Park Commission is to preserve, protect and maintain the woodlands, watersheds, landscapes and physical infrastructure of 469 buildings and over 200 sculptures throughout its 9,100 acres, while providing Philadelphia citizens and visitors with opportunities for quiescent and active recreation. More than 60 parks managed by the Commission comprise one of the largest municipally operated landscaped park systems in the United States.

Ms. Borski

Each of these parks falls into one of 11 different classifications as they are outlined in our Strategic Plan, dependent upon size and use, from the smallest 7 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 neighborhood mini park to downtown plazas to regional parks to our largest natural watershed areas. Our major accomplishments in fiscal year 2004 include the transfer of recreation facilities to the Department of Recreation. In FY03 and into '04, the Park Commission completed the transfer of six indoor recreational facilities and all three of its swimming pools to the Philadelphia Department of Recreation. Only the recreation facilities at Lloyd Hall and Memorial Hall remain under the Park's purview. These transfers have helped to eliminate the overlapping and duplicative responsibilities between the two departments and allowed the Commission to focus on its mission of preserving open space and natural land preservation. PDR's expertise in recreational programming and facility management has resulted in improved opportunities and service within the transferred facilities. In FY04, the Park Commission 8 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 established three special project crews to provide dedicated service for the upkeep of hard surface trails, our restroom facilities and playground sites. These crews were established from existing Park staff and are supplemented with seasonal employees. The restroom crew enables us to provide service to 27 outdoor restroom facilities on a daily basis from April through October. In FY03 and into FY04, the Park also provided an additional 41 temporary restroom facilities for park users. The trail maintenance crew cleans and sweeps 50 miles of hard surface trails and removes dangerous tree limbs over those trails throughout the Park system on a biweekly basis, providing a safe environment for trail users. The playground maintenance crew provides biweekly inspections and repairs to all 30 playground sites. Our goal is to reduce the number of potential injuries that may occur to children by eliminating the number of hazards at the playgrounds. 9 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 In addition to this crew, 15 Park staff members have been trained in playground safety inspection by the National Playground Safety Institute and we have developed a playground safety policy for all of the playgrounds in the Park system. Our initiatives for fiscal year 2005 include implementing the Strategic Plan. As mentioned earlier, the Fairmount Park Commission began developing a Strategic Plan in January 2003 to serve as a guide for the next five years. To be completed this spring, the vision for the Park was framed by input from park users, community members, staff advocates and business and civic leaders. Existing facilities and service areas were mapped, and recommended modifications have been made based on demographics and national standards. A significant review of the Department of Recreation was also conducted to determine if and where any overlaps or redundancies exist in the delivery of services. 10 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Based on recommendations from the Strategic Plan, the Park and PDR have already begun work with the Managing Director's Office to improve coordination and eliminate redundant efforts. Plans for consolidating administrative functions, payroll processing, personnel transactions, budget preparation, and purchasing are underway and the Park Recreation Administrative Service Cluster should be operational by early FY05. Also in fiscal year '05, the Park will begin planning to assume the responsibility of maintaining the grounds and trees at 47 recreation centers, 112 playgrounds, 54 parks and 113 breezeways and cul-de-sacs currently managed by PDR. When the entire transfer of these sites is complete, the total acreage that Fairmount Park is responsible for will increase by 900 acres.

Ms. Borski

The Streets Department will also become responsible for trash collection at PDR and Fairmount Park facilities in an effort to take advantage of the strengths of all the City's departments 11 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 and eliminate duplicative tasks. Caring for and maintaining one of the largest and most diverse park systems in the country is a challenging task that requires professional, committed staff and legions of dedicated volunteers who support our efforts because they love their parks. Our City is fortunate enough to have both, and I look forward to the positive impact of the Strategic Plan on our Park system in the year and long-term future. Madam President, I would like to acknowledge that several of our Commissioners are present for today's testimony, along with many members of our various friends groups and thank you for their support.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Before we recognize the witnesses, I am told that we have students from the Elwood Elementary School with us. If they would stand, we would like to recognize them. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

12 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Welcome. I would like to remind my colleagues that with the first go-around, everyone will be given five minutes. I am asking that we respect that rule. If you're in the middle of a question, you can finish your line of questioning. And, please, we have a very, very busy day, so I am asking everyone to please cooperate. Commissioner, you mentioned in your testimony the implementation of the Park's Strategic Plan. What additional resources has the City committed to this endeavor in the FY05 budget and the proposed five-year plan?

Ms. Borski

For the first year, Madam President, the Strategic Plan is looking at the ways that it will invest in the Park system. So the FY05 budget does not reflect any increases in investment at this time. We will spend this first year examining operational ways to improve Park delivery, and that will lead us to make some guideline decisions for the coming years. 13 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Council President Verna

Has the Strategic Plan been made public, and if it has, can we have a copy of it?

Ms. Borski

Our hope is to roll out the Strategic Plan mid-May. We are in the final draft revisions right now. I believe that there are plans underway to present to both Commissioners, Council and the conservancy in the very near future, so that we can meet a mid-May target date for presentation to the public.

Council President Verna

Thank you. You state in your testimony that in FY05, the Park will begin planning to assume the responsibility of maintaining the grounds and trees at 47 recreation centers, 112 playgrounds, 54 parks and 113 breezeways and cul-de-sacs currently managed by Recreation. When is it anticipated that you will actually take over and do you have the amount of staff that would be able to do all of this?

Ms. Borski

It is one of the recommendations of the Strategic Plan to 14 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 combine services, reduce redundancies wherever possible with other departments, and this is the beginning of that effort. It will continue through fiscal year '07, I believe, but we are beginning the process right now effective July 1.

Council President Verna

Well, does the plan indicate the projected cost of this and how you'll be able -- or how will you be able to absorb it?

Mr. Albert

Good morning. My name is Brian Albert. I'm the Administrative Services Director at the Fairmount Park Commission. This is a recent initiative of the Managing Director's Office in conjunction with the Strategic Plan. The actual costs are still being determined at this point, and we would anticipate a revision of our '05 budget at some point, depending on costs that we assume. Certainly for '06 those costs would be reflected, but we're still at the initial planning stage at this point. 15 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Council President Verna

Can you tell us the operational impact to the Park on your proposed reductions and temporary and seasonal workers of 30,000 and $229,000 in overtime?

Mr. Albert

Again, we thought that we could eliminate some of the temporary positions. It amounts to nearly percent, 10 and we thought that by reevaluating the season, that we have the temporary, maybe starting them later or having them finish earlier would reduce our costs in that area. We are still, again, trying to determine what impact that would have on services and we are just trying to manage those resources.

Council President Verna

Are any of the Recreation employees being transferred to Fairmount Park?

Ms. Borski

That's not the current plan, no. While we will be assuming some services, and one of those is tree crew, we have worked closely with the one tree crew that Recreation currently has throughout the winter months with snow emergencies and other 16 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 things, and there is the idea that that crew would be transferred.

Council President Verna

Thank you. I'll come back later. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning.

Ms. Borski

Good morning.

Councilwoman Brown

Let me first continue with the line of questioning around the Strategic Plan and indicate that I too look forward to the unveiling of that plan, and all of us should be mindful or reminded of the fact that we have introduced a resolution calling for hearings so that we as City Council can hear about it, learn more in detail about the recommendations and how we can monitor the implementation of the plan. So we look forward to that official unveiling. And let me go on record to salute the leadership, and specifically Debra Wolf-Goldstein, for the very intimate 17 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 involvement with the Please Touch Museum and it finally moving through the process at the Fairmount Park Commission. On the topic of the Please Touch Museum, could you please share with us a time frame at least that you will anticipate seeing the legislation transmitted to City Council? Because Councilman Nutter and I look forward to these hearings on this particular matter.

Ms. Borski

At our Commission meeting last week, we did approve the lease arrangements with Please Touch Museum, and my understanding is in the very near future, Councilwoman, you will be seeing legislation come down the pike. Sometime within the next two weeks the Chairman is telling me. I also want to acknowledge your calling for hearings on the Strategic Plan. We welcome the opportunity to present in that format. We're very excited about what the plan has to offer, and it will be a good format for getting word out.

Councilwoman Brown

So do we, because we know that I think the last plan was 18 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 1980?

Councilwoman Brown

And all of us are set on the fact that this plan does not sit on a shelf, but that it actually gets realized, given all the work that's gone into it over the past two years. Discuss with us what is happening with the staff or the anticipated action plan for transitioning Fairmount Park staff from Memorial Hall to wherever they are going.

Ms. Borski

Plans for the move are underway. Based on Please Touch's time line, we are looking to try and have staff out of Memorial Hall by late fall, mid-fall, October and November. And plans for most of the administrative staff will move them downtown to 1515 Arch. There will be some staff changes that will take them into other places in the Park, and we do want to maintain a Park presence at our Case building on the corner of Belmont Avenue and Girard where people are used to coming for permits and such. 19 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Councilwoman Brown

It looks like I have one more question. The Microsoft high school, a number of us in City Council attended the public hearing around that. Give us the status to date on where that is in the process.

Ms. Borski

Negotiations are continuing with the School District at this point. We have as a Commission granted concept approval to the idea of the school, a future happening there. So the School District has entered into some negotiations with us regarding right-of-entry to the site to look at test borings and surveying, things like that. We're also in conversations regarding what that will entail from the School District to the Park to have this site, which, of course, among other things, would entail a land swap where we would not overall lose acreage to the park because --

Councilwoman Brown

A land what?

Ms. Borski

Land swap. The 20 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 idea is that we would never give up park land without having it replaced somewhere else in the park that was beneficial to the Park system as a whole.

Councilwoman Brown

I recall a bump in the road with regards to a piece of Federal regulation around that. So you're saying we've gotten over that bump?

Ms. Borski

We are in negotiations right now with the Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. DCNR is sort of the enforcing agency for Federal policy on that line, but Fairmount Park Commission itself would also have a policy where we would want to retain land if land was used for another use.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. With regards to the restroom, trail and playground maintenance section in your testimony, and you've established three special crews to provide dedicated service to trails, restrooms and playgrounds, what did we do with these items previously?

Mr. Curry

Good morning. My 21 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 name is Sam Curry. I'm the Interim Director of Operations. Prior to implementing the three special crews, we did it within districts. We handled restroom cleaning, we handled trail clearing and playground repair and inspection within the district. But at that point, we weren't able to do it as timely and as efficiently as we can do it with the three dedicated crews. These three crews are dedicated to making sure that the restrooms are open and cleaned daily, that the trails are swept biweekly, and the playground safety crew inspects and repairs the playgrounds biweekly. So we're making the playgrounds a lot safer, the bathrooms a lot cleaner and the trails a lot nicer for the trail users.

Councilwoman Brown

So can we surmise from that that the staff reconfiguration has moved to an improvement in those areas?

Mr. Curry

That's correct.

Councilwoman Brown

Playground 22 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 safety policy, is that universal now, is it applied universally across the Fairmount Park system and where are we in terms of making sure all of our playgrounds are up to standard?

Mr. Curry

Yes, it does. The policy covers the entire Fairmount Park playground areas. There are some playgrounds that we have gone in and inspected. We've removed some pieces of equipment that are hazardous that we felt were beyond repair. We've made repairs to some of the equipment, and some playgrounds are designated for capital improvements.

Councilwoman Brown

So if you had to give yourself a grade on where the City is with regards to the application of the playground safety policy, what would it be?

Mr. Curry

What grade would I give Fairmount Park's playground policy in the work we've done?

Councilwoman Brown

Unbiased.

Mr. Curry

I'll give it an A.

Councilwoman Brown

So let us 23 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 know then which of those playgrounds are not where they should be in terms of a playground safety policy, because I'm sure that might be of interest to our District Council Members.

Mr. Curry

I don't know if I have that information in front of me right now. We do have several that are scheduled for capital improvements.

Councilwoman Brown

You can forward that to the Chair?

Mr. Curry

We can do that. That's no problem.

Councilwoman Brown

Please.

Council President Verna

Councilwoman, your time is up.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter. Five minutes, sir.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Borski, I understand that you laid out that the Strategic Plan for the Park 24 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 will be completed sometime in mid-May; is that correct?

Ms. Borski

Yes. Good morning.

Councilman Nutter

Good morning. I'm sorry. But I take it from your testimony that there must be a draft of the plan already that you're working from?

Ms. Borski

Yes. It is in draft form.

Councilman Nutter

What are its major conclusions?

Ms. Borski

Some of the things that I mentioned in my testimony, which is this idea of consolidation and transferring of responsibilities with other City departments to reduce duplicative efforts. Specifically, we can point to trash removal along with Streets Department and the idea of Fairmount Park assuming turf maintenance and tree maintenance responsibilities at rec sites, as well as the Fairmount Park sites we do already. They would be some highlights. 25 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 But the plan in its current form still needs to sort of bring its priorities to the surface, and that's what the draft is doing. And, actually, as I also said, I'm not sure if you were quite here yet, we do plan to bring that to Council in the very near future.

Councilman Nutter

Right. No; I did hear that. What does the Strategic Plan talk about in the context of funding? I thought one of the major issues that we were seeking to grapple with was what is the real need from a funding standpoint to run a first-class world-class Park system?

Ms. Borski

Well, it does two things. It certainly identifies revenue generation and new revenue generation as a sort of key component of bringing up the standard of the Park system, and it does also look at operational review to sort of streamline current financial practices within the Park.

Councilman Nutter

Does it make any recommendation or speak to the issue Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 of the need for increased funding from the City for the Park system? Wasn't that part of the point?

Ms. Borski

Councilman, it probably will, but that language is not really there now. Like I said, in the draft forms, things are still in a sort of very general state in terms of saying park systems can always do better with more, but it does not to date identify specific areas.

Councilman Nutter

Well, I thought that was part of the goal of the Strategic Plan in the first place. I mean, is the Park working on the draft or is the consultant working on the draft?

Ms. Borski

The consultant in conjunction with the Managing Director's Office and the Park staff are all looking at it.

Councilman Nutter

Well, is there a recommendation in the report that would propose the need for additional funding for the Park system?

Ms. Borski

I mean, at this 27 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 point, I can't point to sort of a line item that says what that is, but, yes, they will definitely make recommendations for increased revenue from all sources, and one of the ways I think that they will look at the Park system is being able to generate more on its own. They point to percentages that would say that we could generate -- a Park system could generate up to 30 to 40 percent its operating revenue.

Councilman Nutter

I understand you want to maximize your revenue generation. I think I'm asking a slightly different question. I'm asking you, how much money does it really take to run a 9,100-acre Park system at the level of service that citizens of Philadelphia should expect? That's the question. I thought that was the question we were trying to answer by going through a Strategic Plan.

Ms. Borski

And ultimately I think the Strategic Plan will look to provide those numbers, but in its draft form now, they have not. They haven't really gotten into 28 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 specific numbers at all. They'll talk about benchmarks, they'll talk about what other cities do best, but they haven't sort of culminated into that final piece. They can look to number recommendations.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. But you expect it to be completed by mid-May?

Ms. Borski

Yes, we do.

Councilman Nutter

your testimony talks about the transfer of recreation facilities to the Department of Recreation.

Ms. Borski

You got it started.

Council President Verna

Complete your question, sir.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. It says, "Only the recreational facilities at Lloyd Hall and Memorial Hall remain under the Park's purview." I thought that was -- maybe that statement is true in terms of major buildings or facilities, but the Park system still has a variety of what any of us would consider to be 29 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 recreational facilities under its jurisdiction, right?

Ms. Borski

They were identified as our indoor rec centers, that the transfer started last year and is completed now. And with the exception of Memorial Hall and Lloyd Hall, that's the case.

Councilman Nutter

But you transferred some outdoor recreational facilities in the most recent transfer of assets, didn't you?

Ms. Borski

We tend to take care --

Councilman Nutter

Parkside Evans is an outdoor recreation facility. You transferred that from the Park to the Department of Recreation.

Ms. Borski

That's correct, but the relationship is still for the Rec Department to take care of the actual building facility and Fairmount Park still maintains the grounds.

Councilman Nutter

And Rec is going to do the programming as well, right? 30 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Ms. Borski

And Rec is going to do the programming as well.

Councilman Nutter

Because I want to talk to you about a number of other facilities in my district and I know you've had some contact with some of my constituents about places like Daisy and Boyce and Arrow.

Councilman Nutter

And whether or not they should stay within the purview of the Park since they are active recreation sites that you've historically had, but I think the question still remains whether they should be with Fairmount Park or with Recreation. We can continue that discussion. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning.

Ms. Borski

Good morning. 31 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Councilwoman Miller

I have a couple of questions about the street tree removal program. What is the process and criteria for the removal of street trees? I know under NTI, I think we've been a little bit more aggressive about removing street trees, but if you have 250,000 trees, I don't know how you keep up with this.

Mr. Curry

I can answer that, Councilwoman. In FY02, three years ago, we developed a heavy-duty street tree removal program with help from NTI, and at that point, we had approximately 8,500 hazardous trees lining the streets. Each year we remove approximately 4,000, but we anticipate an additional 2,000 to 2,500 trees decline and die as the year progresses. So we kind of take a lot -- remove a lot of trees, but others die and take its place. We have figured out a number that we probably remove a total of 1,500 trees per year. Presently we are in -- FY05 will be the fourth season. We have greatly reduced the 32 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 backlog of hazardous trees on the streets of the City of Philadelphia.

Councilwoman Miller

What is the current backlog; do you know?

Mr. Curry

We perceive the current backlog to be about 2,000 trees. We anticipate over the next year, as trees decline and die, to increase that by approximately 2,000 trees. So by the end of the year, it will be 4,000. If we can remove close to 4,000 trees, our backlog at that point will be at a manageable number of several hundred. And then you have to anticipate the following year more will decline and die. So it's an ongoing task, but I think that we have reduced that hazardous backlog greatly.

Councilwoman Miller

Well, that's very good. How do you keep up with -- I notice in the five-year plan you're talking about putting together a geographic information system for asset management that doesn't exist 33 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 now. So how do you keep up? How do you know what trees are dying? Is it by complaint driven, by people calling or do you survey?

Mr. Curry

Actually, both ways. If we get a call, we would go out and inspect it. We do still receive calls for not only tree removal but tree pruning, tree planting also. We also go out and inspect certain areas, especially with the pruning. We do 14,000 street tree prunings per year. We don't get quite that many requests, but we will go out and inspect complete blocks. So as we go out, we also make indication of trees that are dying, declining that we should be removing. So we get it twofold, one by inspection that we do and also by requests through citizens, through Council, through others, et cetera.

Councilwoman Miller

In previous years -- I guess what is the criteria for the removal of a street tree? I know that one time someone said that a tree is 34 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 determined to be in certain categories, like imminently dangerous and this and that, sort of like a building, a structure. Can you tell me what those are again?

Mr. Curry

Yeah. I can help you out there I think a little bit. Each tree, we send a professional arborist out to inspect each and every tree that there is a request for removal. If there is an indication that the tree is declining or dead, then the tree would be listed for removal. If it is hazardous, it has a crack in it, it could be alive, but there's a large crack, then, of course, that would be imminently dangerous and we would remove that tree. Other than that, it really depends on the tree health. We have to go out and take a look at the tree, inspect the tree, and each tree is an individual and we make that decision upon inspection.

Councilwoman Miller

Is there a routine list? When you plant a new tree, is there a routine time frame that you go back to 35 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 prune?

Mr. Curry

The question is after we plant a tree, when do we prune?

Councilwoman Miller

Yes; routinely.

Mr. Curry

After how many years or something like that?

Councilwoman Miller

Yes.

Mr. Curry

Actually, we try to do that within the first few years. It's really a benefit to the tree. It structurally enhances the tree. We take out the branches that we do not want. It's also a little less costly to do it at that point, and it's great for the health of the tree if we go back and do it within two to three years.

Councilwoman Miller

And all trees on sidewalks are yours, correct?

Mr. Curry

All street trees, yes, between the curb and the sidewalk come under the jurisdiction of the Fairmount Park Commission.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. Thank you. 36 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Commissioner, you mention in your testimony that plans are being made to create a Centennial District among cultural institutions. Would you share with us your concept of what this district would be?

Ms. Borski

Currently we are looking at calling something a Centennial District that would span from the Art Museum to the Mann Center for Performing Arts. It would, therefore, include the zoo, the Mann, the upcoming Please Touch Museum, existing horticultural centers there, as well as the Japanese House and Garden, and look at that area in a more cohesive fashion to maybe even be considered a zone in Fairmount Park where you could enhance the maintenance and care of the area through some sort of contributing effort of the entities that are in it and also the Park itself as the landlord of that piece of ground. There is a study currently underway 37 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 to do that. We are very excited about what the potential is to look at areas of the Park in terms of a zone that can have attention focused particularly on its care, maintenance and upkeep.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The gentleman to your right, I'm sorry, I don't recall your name.

Mr. Albert

Brian Albert.

Council President Verna

Brian, in your testimony you indicated that at some point the budget would have to be revised. At what point would that be? Would it be before we consider the budget or after we consider the budget?

Mr. Albert

I think I was alluding to during the fiscal year 2005. Say, for example, we took over the street tree crew from the Department of Recreation. Obviously the dollars would need to follow as well. I would anticipate that that would need to be part of, say, a mid-year transfer ordinance. How much would be required to be transferred would depend at what point in the 38 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 year that happened. I hope that's clear.

Council President Verna

I just wanted to clear that point. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

A point of information from Councilman Rizzo.

Council President Verna

A point of information from Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

I'd like to go back to the street tree issue. There's nothing, in my opinion, worse that when we have a wind storm, that we read about a person that's killed by a tree that's fallen, and I know that in my community on Bells Mill Road many years ago a large tree came down and struck a person driving a vehicle and killed them instantly. As I drive through the City, I see in the -- not necessarily street trees. I'm talking about park trees -- that, in my opinion, are very unstable. Yesterday driving on Germantown Avenue on the east side of Germantown at 39 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Hillcrest, there's an embankment there and there's some large oaks. I believe they're oaks. And their root system is showing, and it jumped out at me that here's an accident waiting to happen. What are we doing as a Fairmount Park Commission, especially the trees that are on our property, assuring that we're going to not have future fatalities with these falling trees?

Mr. Curry

Good morning, Councilman. It's a difficult situation that the Park finds itself in, because this is sort of the situation that occurs anywhere where you have a park boundary, a hillside, Lincoln Drive, Kelly drive, West River Drive and throughout the entire City. It's a vast area. If we come upon or someone tells us that there is a potential hazard of a tree either at that location on Germantown Avenue or along Lincoln Drive and we go out and inspect that tree, we need to remove that tree, one way or another. Because we 40 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 certainly do not want that tree to hurt, especially kill, anyone. Some of these areas are very difficult to get at. We may go in there and make the tree safe to a point where it wouldn't fall, but if we are aware of a situation like that, we will try to rectify that situation.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you. Could you please take a look at -- because I would hate like heck to have something occur -- Germantown Avenue between Bells Mill and Hillcrest on the west side of the street. It's terribly undermined there, and the tree must be three or four feet in diameter. And if that fell, even a part of it, it would be, I believe, fatal. Thank you.

Mr. Curry

If I just may, sometimes the trees may lean. They're actually leaning for light. But we will take a look at it and determine the hazardness within that tree.

Councilman Rizzo

This one looks dead, because it has no vegetation at 41 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 all on it at this time of the year. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Sir, I don't know whether the question was asked, but what is the backlog for tree removal?

Mr. Curry

It was asked. I will go back over that. We presently have a backlog of about 2,000 dead or hazardous street trees. We've reduced that greatly from 8,500 three years. We started in FY02. We anticipate by the end of FY05 to have that number down to a manageable several hundred number, keeping in mind that additional trees will continue to die and it's sort of a never-ending fight.

Council President Verna

That's good to hear. Thank you. Again, the Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke, if he ever gets the chance to ask his questions.

Councilman Clarke

No problem, Madam President. I'm a very patient 42 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 gentleman. Thank you. Good morning.

Ms. Borski

Good morning.

Councilman Clarke

I actually have a couple of questions and I'll come back on the next round and ask the remainder. First I want to ask about trees to follow up on that. In substantial portions of my district, I actually have problems with trees in alleyways, and I have yet to find out who is responsible for the trees and who ultimately will be responsible for removing them if they're dead and dangerous. And the other question, I want to talk about dogs on leashes. If you could do the tree one first.

Mr. Curry

I'll try to handle the tree. Vacant lots, alleys, rear yards of abandoned properties, tree removal and lot clearing comes under the heading of the NTI and the Community Life Improvement Programs. Fairmount Park manages two tree maintenance crews, one for the NTI and one for the Community Life Improvement Program. 43 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Both of these crews have the duties of going in and removing alley trees, vacant lot trees and abandoned property trees. One of the problems we have is access to some of these locations, and that sometimes is the difficulty. If we can get at it, we can do it.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. So I call you guys or I call the NTI office?

Mr. Curry

Call the NTI office. It funnels through --

Councilman Clarke

I knew that was going to be the answer.

Mr. Curry

It's easier that way, because we get all our information through NTI. We keep all our information. When we complete a task, we give that information back to NTI so they can record that the work is done.

Councilman Clarke

Is there a particular individual in NTI? I mean, NTI is pretty expansive. Is there someone that I can call over there and get some expeditious response? 44 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Mr. Curry

A lot of the information we get out of either from NTI or from the Community Life Improvement comes out of the Managing Director's Office, Tom Conway.

Councilman Clarke

Tommy? Oh, okay. Thank you. Dogs. This is a little personal. Every now and then I get enough energy to go jogging, and from time to time, I find myself jogging out up in Valley Green. And it seems like every time I go out there, I get attacked by a dog, who is supposed to be on a leash, but the person just feels it's okay to just have the dog run loose and the dog rushes me, and more often than not, the dog is just bluffing, but I'm running. It's difficult enough for me to run, but when you have to stop and then you got to start up again, it's extremely difficult, and I want to talk to you about the leash law. First, what portions of the park are individuals required to have their dogs on leashes? Is there a distance in terms of the leashes, 10 foot, 20 foot? I mean, they have 45 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 these new things where they stretch out like 50 feet. So you really have to be a substantial distance away from them to be safe from a dog, particularly on the pedestrian path such as Valley Green.

Mr. Curry

Councilman, again, it's a difficult situation, but, yes, we do have dogs on leash laws that cover all areas of Fairmount Park. And the basic length of a leash is six feet, no longer than six feet, and it's usually posted in most park areas on our information signage. Enforcement is a problem, trying to be places everywhere at the same time to cover this. Our park rangers are told to inform people that have dogs off leashes that it is a requirement of the Fairmount Park Commission to make sure that their dogs are on leashes. So we do have a policy in place. It's just very difficult to enforce it all in areas, but we do try to inform the public that this is the policy.

Councilman Clarke

On Valley Green in particular, you tend to have a park 46 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 ranger or a police officer ride down the road on a pretty consistent basis and I have yet to see them stop a person and say, Put your dog on a leash, let alone telling them not to use those 40-, 50-foot leashes. Is there something you can do to reinforce that? I mean, I know it's personal, but I have to assume that I'm not the only person being attacked by a dog.

Mr. Curry

It's not just personal. It is our policy. It is our regulation. And if we see that happening, we should enforce it, not only with the park rangers, but also park staff. And we will reinforce that with in-house that that is our policy and what we should be doing.

Councilman Clarke

Do you know off the top of your head what the penalty is?

Mr. Curry

$25 probably.

Councilman Clarke

$25? Okay. I'll come back. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. 47 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Good morning.

Ms. Borski

Good morning.

Councilwoman Tasco

On of the budget detail, a CLIP crew is identified as part of the Fairmount Park staff. What jobs and responsibilities do these employees perform?

Mr. Curry

CLIP crew is Community Life Improvement. It's a tree maintenance crew that provides services. We just spoke of removal of trees, pruning of trees. These could be street trees, alley trees, backyard trees, hazardous park trees or hazardous recreation trees. The CLIP crews work in the Northeast section of the City of Philadelphia.

Councilwoman Tasco

Are they working solely in the park or are they doing trees on the street?

Councilwoman Tasco

Both? 48 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Mr. Curry

That's correct.

Councilwoman Tasco

If the City proposes to expand the CLIP program to the other seven councilmanic districts, how will this impact on your department? Are you aware that they want to expand the program?

Mr. Curry

If they would expand the CLIP, the Community Life Improvement Program, how would it affect -- presently we have one tree maintenance crew that works under the jurisdiction of CLIP. We manage the crew, but it's funded through the Community Life Improvement Program. If it was expanded throughout the City, we can only do what one tree maintenance crew could do at that point. We would make every effort to look at all requests. And we also have the NTI tree maintenance crew, which services similar situations in the other sections of the City of Philadelphia. So, actually, we have two NTI/CLIP tree maintenance crews. One crew tends to work towards the Northeast, the other one works in the other sections of the City of 49 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Philadelphia.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, how many people do you have just doing tree trimming, tree removal that are not associated with NTI or CLIP?

Mr. Curry

Each district has one tree maintenance crew, and there's five districts.

Councilwoman Tasco

And then were these people who are assigned to the CLIP program, were they employees, current employees, of the Fairmount Park staff and then deployed to CLIP or were they hired to do CLIP?

Mr. Curry

The Community Life Improvement tree maintenance crew and the NTI tree maintenance crew were both hired through the NTI funding through the Managing Director's Office, and it is -- they were placed under our jurisdiction because we had to staff the arborists to oversee that part of the project.

Councilwoman Tasco

So you have not been given any additional dollars to 50 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 hire additional people to handle the quality of life program if it expanded to other districts?

Mr. Curry

Not directly. We only handle tree situations. The Community Life Improvement Program also runs outside of Fairmount Park. So if they expand it on that end, I really don't have a handle on that. I know that we manage the tree maintenance crew, but there are other vacant lot clearing crews, there's anti-graffiti crews. There's other crews that also work under the Community Life Improvement that are outside the jurisdiction of Fairmount Park.

Councilwoman Tasco

But do they take care of trees?

Councilwoman Tasco

My question is about the trees. Granted, there may not be the demand in some communities as in others, but if you have two people that are assigned to the Northeast, how do you plan to expand to accommodate the new program, or have you been asked? 51 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Mr. Albert

Good morning, Councilwoman. There is no increase in funding. I don't know whether we have been asked to do so. Obviously we would need an increase in funding to do so.

Councilwoman Tasco

Has there been any discussion with your department about the expansion of the CLIP program to other Council districts?

Mr. Curry

Not directly, no. 13

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you, Madam President. I'll come back.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Madam President. I know that there has been question with regard to Microsoft School, and I'm following up on that. As you know, it would include both districts, Councilman Nutter's and my own, and 52 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 we are interested in the progress in that regard with the Park. I understand it was already okayed, the land was already okayed, through the Commission?

Ms. Borski

Commission gave concept approval to the plan, yes.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Okay. Now you're waiting for the School District, or what's the next step?

Ms. Borski

Well, negotiations will continue with the School District. There is also the idea of actually what the school would look like. So there are design considerations for the site that would need to come back before the Commission. And we do need to clear the hurdles of exactly what this transfer of land would look like, what the Park would get in return for "school of the future" on the site. One of those things I addressed with Councilwoman Brown was the idea of an appropriate land swap where we are already identifying other acreage that would be beneficial to the Park. 53 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Councilwoman Blackwell

You say that the Park is already involved in that discussion about other land you're interested in?

Councilwoman Blackwell

Would you keep us informed? And we're happy to help to facilitate this issue in any way we can.

Ms. Borski

That's wonderful. Thank you, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. In the same area, Ms. Borski, and I heard the earlier response, with regard to the land swap, where is the other land?

Ms. Borski

One of the parcels we are looking at is one that's come before 54 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Council before, the 11-acre tract. We refer to it as Waddington. It is at Algon and Krewstown. It is contiguous park land in the Northeast.

Councilman Nutter

And who is the owner?

Ms. Borski

We are currently trying to purchase that land from the Waddington family.

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry. I'm not hearing you. From the who?

Ms. Borski

It's a tract of land that we are currently in the course of trying to purchase from the Waddington family.

Councilman Nutter

Waddington? I just couldn't make that out. Okay. And what does that have to do with the school?

Ms. Borski

Well, this idea of using park land for another use would require that we have a replacement of equal or greater value of land within the Park system as a whole.

Councilman Nutter

So are you 55 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 saying that the Microsoft School proposal is contingent upon you getting land from another party that has nothing to do with the transaction?

Ms. Borski

No. No. Just it would be Fairmount Park policy always to be able to identify other land in the course of using this sort of creative reuse for park land, and that is one of the tracts that we've identified.

Councilman Nutter

I understand that. I'm just trying to understand why the two things end up in the same conversation.

Ms. Borski

Our conversations with School District are still continuing on what will be required of them.

Councilman Nutter

I understand that. And then in the next breath you said and you're looking at a land swap because you don't want to have X amount of acres of park land go to a school use without either replacing it acre for acre or even more. 56 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 What I'm trying to understand is, what does the one have to do with the other? Does the school issue have anything to do with this other tract of land, which, based on those boundaries, is that somewhere in the Northeast?

Ms. Borski

It's in the Northeast, bordering the Park system up in Pennypack.

Councilman Nutter

Well, I guess the more direct question is, if that proposal for whatever reason doesn't come to fruition, does that have any negative impact on your negotiations and a final agreement with the school system?

Ms. Borski

I don't think so. I don't think that's the only parcel of land we're looking at. That's just one of them.

Councilman Nutter

So let me make sure I'm absolutely clear. Your discussions and negotiation with the School District about the Microsoft School are separate and apart from any thought, proposal, idea, policy pursued of another piece of 57 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 property even though you would like to get another piece of property around and about the same time that you're concluding a transaction with the School District, but one is not dependent on the other; is that correct?

Ms. Borski

One is not dependent on the other, but they -- yes, one is not dependent on the other.

Councilman Nutter

Do you want to add something to it? It seemed like you're eager to get to the microphone.

Ms. Borski

Feel free.

Mr. Albert

I think just to clarify the point --

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry. What's your name?

Mr. Albert

I'm sorry. My name is Brian Albert. I'm the Administrative Services Director at the Fairmount Park Commission. I think it's just in principle, we would like to have land of equal size, but it's not contingent upon any particular site.

Ms. Borski

But currently that 58 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 site is in the works, so it's a good one to identify for this, is my point.

Councilman Nutter

I understand that. It just gets us extra discussion about two items that have nothing to do with each other, but if we're talking about the Microsoft School and you tell me you'd like to get another piece of property to replace it, then I'm led to believe that the one is contingent on the other. If it's not, then I don't know what it has to do with the other issue.

Ms. Borski

Fairmount Park as a result of previous studies would have a sort of catalogue of many pieces of property that would be potential acquisition sites.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Ms. Borski

So there are a lot of them out there that we would look at. This is one that we're looking at currently. So it's just happening coincidentally.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Ms. Borski

I'm not trying to be obtuse. 59 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Council President Verna

I know that you have a follow-up question, Councilman, but I think we're going to have to wait.

Councilman Nutter

I understand.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you, Madam President. I just want to ask a couple of questions in follow up to the street tree removal. Whose responsibility is it if it's your tree and the tree with the roots are breaking and cracking up the sidewalk, whose responsibility is it to do repair to that sidewalk?

Mr. Curry

It's my understanding that it is the property owner's responsibility. They have the responsibility of the sidewalk.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. And when a tree is removed, you do replace it 60 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 if the property owner wants it replaced or if -- I mean, do they have a say in this whether they want the tree replaced, another planted?

Mr. Curry

Yes. We actually only plant a tree upon request in front of a property, a homeowner's property. If we were to remove a tree at a location, sometimes it's difficult to find an area to replace the tree because of the size of some of the sidewalks.

Councilwoman Miller

So you don't really plant it back, replace it in the place that you took it out of?

Mr. Curry

We can't always guarantee that, no. 17

Councilwoman Miller

All right. I have some questions. I'm just a little bit confused about the Recreation Department and Fairmount Park. So you're going to put together what's called Park Recreation Administrative Service Center to consolidate and not be redundant in terms of tasks, correct?

Ms. Borski

That's correct. 61 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Councilwoman Miller

So if there's a program going on in a particular center, who will be actually running that program? Will it be Recreation or Fairmount Park?

Ms. Borski

Typically it will be Recreation that will run programming.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. So, for example, Allens Lane Art Center, is that a place that you would give to Recreation or you would keep? I'm confused. I'm real confused here.

Ms. Borski

Allens Lane Art Center --

Councilwoman Miller

I'm just using that as an example.

Ms. Borski

We tend to run the programming out there and would continue to.

Councilwoman Miller

So there are some places that you'd continue to operate the programs?

Ms. Borski

That's correct.

Councilwoman Miller

Can we get information as to what you will be doing 62 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 versus what the Recreation centers will be doing? When we get calls, we need to know who to call and it's easier if we know exactly who is going to be responsible for what particular center --

Ms. Borski

Absolutely.

Councilwoman Miller

-- or playground.

Ms. Borski

And I believe that's what we're trying to do, is sort of streamline this effort so that it is -- it's seamless, that there will be one place to call that can generate the appropriate information back to Council and the citizens so that there's not the sense of is it Fairmount Park or is it Recreation or some other entity. So we are actively trying to pursue that.

Councilwoman Miller

All right. That's very good. And I do want to commend the cleaning of the restrooms. I was at Blue Bell Park last summer. I go there every year for a neighborhood reunion. And I really took notice of the bathroom. So whatever you're 63 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 doing differently, last year was really -- I mean, the bathroom was clean, it was well stocked, because I had actually taken my own soap and whatnot, but there was already soap in there. I was really kind of shocked. So I just want to commend that crew who is going around, doing that type of clean-ups. And I have some other questions, but it will run over my time, so I might as well stop now and wait.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos.

Councilman Ramos

Thank you, Madam Chair. I, like many Philadelphians, am so proud of our park, and the gift of the creator to put this park in the middle of our City is quite an honor for us to have this beautiful greenery all around us, yet so underutilized, and yet certain parts of it, as there was reported I believe in the Daily News a few 64 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 weeks ago, of how some of our citizens like to trash our park. Can you talk to me about what is your -- I know you made mention of it in your statement. How is your clean-up going, how much of a burden, a physical burden, is this on you? What are you doing, and can you tell me a little bit about it? What are you doing to promote monitoring of our parks, how you're doing it?

Ms. Borski

Good morning, Councilman. We have an extraordinary responsibility towards maintenance of the park. I believe it does fall under the category of just keeping it clean. And we spend a great deal of time, grounds maintenance crews, doing exactly that. We also have a really wonderful volunteer force in the City of Philadelphia that, among other things, the Strategic Plan has found that no other system that they've ever come across has the level of volunteer support that our system here at Fairmount Park 65 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 does. (Applause.)

Ms. Borski

Thank you. Without them, we would have nowhere near the level of clean and green that we do. And that's sort of person to person environmental education on what it takes to keep the City and its parks clean is critical to our efforts. And also the recent sort of news reports that you referred to help us in that regard, because otherwise it would be an overwhelming effort. Part of our Strategic Plan, if we look at it, is to look at our sort of operational activities to make sure that we are doing everything we can to keep it up to standards, but the idea of citizen education I think is probably the biggest piece of that whole puzzle, the idea of leave no footprint. You also made mention of being a park within a city, but one of the things that the consultant says, and I think the Managing Director also adopted it, is that we are a city within a park, so we are particularly 66 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 lucky.

Councilman Ramos

I can handle that part as well. What also are you doing besides your volunteer work? Is there anything that you do outside of your volunteer work to educate and enlighten our citizenry that we all need and it's not -- it's our citizenry. We all have to do -- this culture has developed in this City, and I'll be addressing this in my days here in City Council, of cleaning up this City. The sub-culture of unloading McDonald wrappers, throwing them as we go by the park, we all have to be a part of this cleanliness effort in making Philadelphia a more beautiful place to look at. I mean, what other things are you doing besides your volunteer core?

Ms. Borski

That is a huge piece of it. We have a Preserve Your Park piece of the puzzle that is company volunteer units that really do learn the process of taking care of the park from beginning to end, and it is a huge division within Fairmount 67 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Park that is looking at those kind of entities that can take on the responsibility for saying this segment of the park is clean, its standards are up, not only from a cleanliness perspective but even from a restoration perspective, to improving park land.

Councilman Ramos

I know you have these little signs on the pole that says Keep Your Park Clean. Are you going to have more of them put into the park? Maybe you should put one up Keep Your Dogs Leashed so Councilman Clarke won't get chased or bit while he's trying to keep in shape.

Ms. Borski

You know, one of the things that Sam Curry briefly mentioned was even within the work force of Fairmount Park, I think that our employees do everything in their power to sort of enforce the rules and regulations.

Councilman Ramos

Yes, but they're not around all the time. You jog through the park at 2 o'clock in the morning and a citizen has got his head who knows where and he or she is getting ready to throw one of 68 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 those cups out the window, but if you have a little sign out there, if we get a few more of those nice aesthetically good-looking signs Keep Philadelphia -- you know, somebody is going to say hold it. Probably not all of them, but someone will say, I am not going to throw this because I was reminded.

Ms. Borski

Signage is important.

Mr. Curry

Councilman, maybe I can elaborate a little bit. Most of our parks do have some type of regulation sign, which indicates no littering, things like that on the signage. Other things that we have done --

Councilman Ramos

Do you think you have enough of them? I guess that's my question. Do you think you have enough of them, and if you don't, can you get more?

Mr. Curry

We probably do not have enough signage. There's always that give and take with signage. You don't want to over-sign areas. It takes away from the aesthetics, but you want to have enough 69 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 signage so people can see it at certain entrances, certain areas where they'll be. Another thing that we've done, we have a lot of picnics in the park and we issue picnic permits. On the permits, it asks the people to clean up after themselves. Not to take the trash away, we will do that, but at least to pick the litter. Also, on weekends when we come upon someone that's having a picnic, our employees are instructed to go up and, if they can, give the people a trash bag or two so they can utilize the trash bag.

Councilman Ramos

I think that you should consider more aesthetically appropriate signs reminding our citizenry to keep our park clean.

Mr. Curry

We can look into that.

Councilman Ramos

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke. 70 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome.

Councilman Clarke

Real briefly to follow up on Councilman Ramos's question with respect to cleanliness in the park. Does the Park have any relationship with the City's community service program? I know in some areas throughout the City we have programs that individuals who receive alternative sentencing are targeted for cleaning up vacant lots and other things throughout the communities. There's some sort of structured program, I believe, run out of the City's -- I'm not sure what office exactly oversees that. Do you guys have any relationship with that program that you specifically --

Mr. Curry

You mean vacant lots or actual in-the-park locations?

Councilman Clarke

No. I'm talking about in the park.

Mr. Curry

Okay. At this 71 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 point, no. One of the relationships we do have is with a group known as Ready, Willing and Able.

Councilman Clarke

I'm familiar with them.

Mr. Curry

They're a great resource within the park.

Councilman Clarke

We're paying them, right?

Mr. Curry

I believe there's a City grant, yes.

Councilman Clarke

I'm talking about volunteers. The alternative sentencing programs where we don't have to pay, they're mandated by the courts to provide community service, and right now I know that we utilize them throughout neighborhoods, and my question is, does the Park have a relationship with that organization or that entity in the City so we can get assistance in the park in cleaning up the park?

Ms. Borski

We don't currently, but that is something we can look at. 72 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Councilman Clarke

Can you look into that?

Ms. Borski

Absolutely.

Councilman Clarke

I think it's a resource, free resource.

Ms. Borski

Yes. In the course of doing some reorganizing within the Park itself right now, we are trying to look at a sort of environmental division, and I think that the capacity to put clearer relationships with volunteer groups, which even this could fall under, the potential for expanding that effort is going to be out there, so we can certainly look at it.

Councilman Clarke

Because I believe the program is substantially underutilized and we need to take advantage of that. The question I wanted to ask, and I actually asked this question maybe last year or the year prior to that, marketing in the park. I think last year I talked about the fact that we have this wonderful resource, a jewel, so to speak, in the middle of our City. 73 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 And when you talk about the fact that most people beyond the region don't really know about the park, particularly its name as compared to New York City, which is a much smaller park. Everybody knows about Central Park. I think it's known internationally. But nobody knows about Fairmount Park once you get beyond 60 miles. And my question is, are we going to enhance our marketing strategy or have we attempted to enhance it? Do we have a relationship with the visitors in the Convention Bureau or the other agencies who are responsible for marketing this City? Because I haven't seen a noticeable increase in marketing in the commercials that I see both here and outside of the City as it relates to the park.

Ms. Borski

Yes. Marketing the park is the most important thing we can do in the future, and I think that we're sort of on our way. We just developed a new logo, which we are going to roll out, along with the Strategic Plan, which we're very excited about. We're also working intensively on a 74 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 web site that is truly the way to get the word out. This is not only sort of a citizen service where we are trying to look at how we do permitting and things, it is what people outside of the area go online to find out what they're going to do in Philadelphia. And we have to have a major presence in that form. We also are closely involved right now with the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corporation in a study for outdoor destinations in the region, which is clearly what we are, and we are sort of undermarketed in that respect. So we're working closely with them to get the word out in a big way.

Councilman Clarke

Are you included in any of the documents? I know they put these pamphlets out in other hotels and surrounding areas. Are you included in any of those?

Ms. Borski

Right. Our sort of presence in the hotels is simply not there, and that's one of the things we're trying to upgrade substantially. I think even some 75 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 funders are probably in the room, but Penn, Pugh, Lenfest have been very helpful to us and other organizations in that sort of study level to really look at how we get the word out and do a better job marketing the park as a destination location in and of itself.

Councilman Clarke

Who are you working with in the Tourism Bureau?

Ms. Borski

There's a study out at GPTMC right now that -- I mean, heading up the group is Patricia Washington on this particular study. The results will be out in September. And then we'll look at the next stage, which is really implementation of some good marketing ideas. And we've also been in contact with PCBB as well.

Councilman Clarke

Can you keep me abreast of that? Because I'm very interested in that, since part of the park borders with my district and is in my district.

Ms. Borski

Absolutely. One of the other things that we're looking at doing as we've been in 76 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 conversations with Independence Visitors Center, they have open spaces, we are trying to figure out a way to promote our historic homes in the historic home tours with some sort of location in sight at IBC, so that for a two-month period, there's some sort of installation or exhibit there that says, Take the trolley, do the tours of the historic homes and really sort of pick up the effort all the way around to just get people in the park for the things you can do here.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair. Could I ask Mr. Nicks to come to the table?

Council President Verna

Certainly. 77 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Mr. Nicks

Good morning, Councilman.

Councilman Rizzo

Hi, Commissioner. One of the concerns that many people have with the anticipated financial condition of the City, I'd like for the record to get the position, your position, the Commissioner's position, on the potential sale of any Fairmount Park land for development to raise money.

Mr. Nicks

I guess historically, and Commissioners Wolf-Goldstein, Tucker, Price, Baum, Bloom are all here, and I think if any of them disagree, they can step up and say. But we don't develop or sell park land. The furthest we've considered or gone would be the "school of the future," which is maybe an inch past cultural and recreational use, but still what we believe was a public use. And even in those situations, we require acre for acre replacement. So in that case, I would say that 78 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 there's going to be no sale of any land for any budget requirements. (Applause.)

Mr. Nicks

The Strategic Plan does say revenue enhancement and that 20, 30 percent of our budget should be generated outside of the City funding dollars, which I personally -- I think most of the Commissioners agree with -- and that can be done absent of selling land. We can do that by -- I think Councilman Clarke hit on it -- is creating what I would call destination points, cultural, recreation destination points. We work daily with our friends at the Art Museum, for instance. The Chairman is here, Gerry Lenfest, where when the Museum does those type of events, they're a destination point. What we want to do is, we want to create other destination points in our park that people come to that generate revenue for the parks.

Councilman Rizzo

That's good 79 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 to hear. The other point that you reminded me of, the development of some of the historic homes for use, which I think has turned out to be a pretty good --

Mr. Nicks

Well, continue to do what we call alternative reuses of historic houses, and our Historic Preservation Trust is constantly looking for opportunities to put mostly non-profits but businesses, anyone who is willing to come into a house, restore it to its grandeur. I want to say the Please Touch is the perfect example.

Councilman Rizzo

And an appropriate business.

Mr. Nicks

I would stand by our record that we've done nothing but appropriate businesses.

Councilman Rizzo

You can understand there are a lot of nervous elected officials, constantly people are concerned about the future of the park, especially if times get tough, and it's good to hear that, Commissioners, your position on that 80 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 particular issue. I think you heard the recognition of the audience today supporting that statement.

Mr. Nicks

I think what you'll see is, the Commission will support a Strategic Plan that does not dilute the responsibilities of the Commission. As long as there's an independent body that oversees the parks, I think then that the vision of the park will continue to be that vision.

Councilman Rizzo

Great. Thank you.

Mr. Nicks

Thank you, Councilman.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Borski, just very quickly, the last question on the, quote/unquote, swap 81 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 issue was, with regard to the location that you've mentioned on the record, who would pay for the purchase of the property, or in what other way would it be considered a swap?

Ms. Borski

At the moment, we have a grant request in to pay for that property. It hasn't been responded to yet.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Are you in a position to say who the grant is into, grant request?

Ms. Borski

The grant request is into DCNR.

Councilman Nutter

I'm still struggling a little bit with some of the terminology that was used earlier. Normally in a swap, if you're dealing with the School District on their site, in a traditional swap, then you'd be talking to the School District about another piece of property that they owned adjacent to the park and you're trying to construct a deal. So that's, I guess, my notion of a swap. I don't understand a swap where you have one transaction going on with one party, 82 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 another transaction going on potentially with another party and what those two have to do with each other. In my experience, that's not a swap.

Ms. Borski

I think I confused the issue unintentionally. In our discussions with the School District, we will be talking to them about identifying and acquiring land in exchange for the parcel that they are looking at developing as the "school of the future."

Councilman Nutter

So they may own some land close to Fairmount Park?

Ms. Borski

They may own some land. We may identify some land and say, This would be a good piece, please provide it to us.

Councilman Nutter

All right. That, I understand. I didn't understand the other concept. What are some of the other proposed revenue generators for the Park as laid out by the Strategic Plan or any other thoughts or ideas that the Park Commission has come up 83 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 with?

Ms. Borski

Concession agreements that have a good return to the Park. I think we can improve them in a lot of ways.

Councilman Nutter

Well, you didn't get that out of the Strategic Plan.

Ms. Borski

Well, but the Strategic Plan will say, Look at broadening your concession arrangements.

Councilman Nutter

Well, how many concession arrangements do we have?

Ms. Borski

Not enough. We do a golf course concession right now that covers our six golf courses. We have driving range concessions. We have a park-wide food concessionaire.

Councilman Nutter

So one concessionaire for the entire park?

Ms. Borski

That's the current format, yes, and that's something I think we need to look at.

Councilman Nutter

How long are these concession contracts or leases? 84 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Ms. Borski

As a general rule, they've been set up to run for ten years and then have renewal options on the end of them.

Councilman Nutter

Ten years?

Ms. Borski

Ten years. Particularly because it was --

Councilman Nutter

Well, what's the revenue generated out of the golf courses?

Ms. Borski

In the area of a million dollars a year.

Councilman Nutter

And do we think that that concessionaire is doing a good job, a poor job or an okay job? And what do we think we could really generate out of the golf courses?

Ms. Borski

I think we want to generate more. I think we want to be -- I think we have been fairly passive in those efforts, and that is one of the places we can sort of bump up our interests and our efforts, to have our concessions produce more for the Park so that we can turn it back into the parks. 85 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 So I don't know how to give it a grade other than to say that I know we want to do better. I don't know if the Chairman wants to add to that.

Mr. Nicks

I think, Mr. Councilman, we would say that the golf concessionaire has done an okay job, that courses are probably not in the condition we'd like them to be. And myself and a few other Commissioners are currently negotiating with the golf concessionaire to make some substantial capital improvements, which should turn around and create increases in the revenues generated under the contract, that we would receive under the contract.

Councilman Nutter

When does that contract expire?

Mr. Nicks

That contract expires 2009 or 10, and there's two five-year options at the end at the City's discretion.

Councilman Nutter

Can you provide to the Chair a list of all of the concession contracts in the park, all of the present concessionaires, what the revenues 86 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 were for the last three years at least from each of those concessions, when the contracts expire and what the plan is to reinstitute them? Do we have competition in our concession contracts?

Mr. Nicks

We have competition probably before we award them, but we've awarded them -- what the Strategic Plan will say is we probably awarded them on too large a scale. Rather than having one golf concessionaire, they may say we should have three. So they're some of the things that will be recommendations back. Like any consultant, what works in Indianapolis may not work here, so I hesitate to tell you exactly what we're going to do until we see the final plan and then we see if it will work here.

Councilman Nutter

Do we have any concession contracts that are about to expire?

Mr. Nicks

I don't believe so, nothing imminent. 87 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Councilman Nutter

Tell me about any amount of diversity in the concession contracting area.

Mr. Nicks

I mean, we make -- for example, there is an RFP recently that went out for the 33rd Street driving range. What is it, 33rd and right off of Girard, that was long run by the Friends of East Park where the respondents were all minority companies, of which the award will go to a minority company and it will be up in operation this summer.

Councilman Nutter

You're pretty much assured of getting a minority company if everybody who applies was minority.

Mr. Nicks

Good point. Well taken. I think what I will do is, I will in the information supply our participation numbers on the contracts as well.

Councilman Nutter

Are there any present concessionaire contracts -- how would I say this -- that were prime bid by minority, female or disadvantaged business? 88 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Mr. Nicks

I don't know. I know, for instance, most of the contracts are done strictly through -- directly through Procurement, so they'd be in the regular City system. I know that our maintenance, some of our grass-cutting crews are minority companies. I know our maintenance crews in three or four of the park houses are done through a minority-owned maintenance company.

Councilman Nutter

I understand. I was speaking again specifically about the concession area.

Mr. Nicks

I don't believe so, but I will make sure.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. You're going to provide to the Chair all the information about concession contracts?

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be back.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Before recognizing Councilwoman 89 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Brown, I just have a very brief question. In going through the budget, I did not see any mention of the park rangers.

Ms. Borski

They are a Class 500 grant.

Council President Verna

How many do we have?

Ms. Borski

How many rangers? at the moment. 11

Council President Verna

So 12 would you say that that's the same amount that 13 we had last year? 14

Ms. Borski

Yes; no change. 15

Council President Verna

Thank 16 you. 17 The Chair recognizes Councilwoman 18 Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. I need to go back because I'm not completely settled with the question around playground maintenance just to be sure I'm clear in what we are hopeful to receive from the Fairmount Park Commission. And I'm struck 90 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 by the fact that you gave yourself an A, although you could not tell me how you arrived at that. And I appreciate your professional judgment, but we know that that has to be based on some kind of checklist or something. So with those playgrounds that are not currently up to code, that list will be forwarded to the Chair, correct?

Mr. Curry

We can provide a list of all of our playground sites. In that list we can tell you to a point what the condition is of the site. We can include areas where we are going to be providing capital improvements to the playground sites. We can probably tell you some of the things that we have done at the sites over the past year as far as repairing, removing hazards, putting in some type of fall protection, whether it be wood chips or a matting, rubber tires. That type of information we can provide.

Councilwoman Brown

That would be extremely helpful. And how do you use the Playground Safety Policy? I mean, 91 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 procedurally what happens?

Mr. Curry

In the Playground Safety Policy, we have several individuals on staff that are certified playground safety inspectors.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Curry

We actually go out and do an evaluation, and we did that about a year and a half ago, and that resulted in how we prioritize what we do at certain locations.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. I will look to that with interest when it's submitted to our Chairperson. Lastly, Schuylkill River Park, what is the role, if any, with the Fairmount Park Commission knowing that there are mixed jurisdictions around the Schuylkill River Park activity?

Ms. Borski

The grounds of Schuylkill River Park are Fairmount Park to Locust Street currently. I know Schuylkill River Development Corporation has plans to expand further south than that, but the current park goes to Locust, and that ground 92 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 is Fairmount Park ground.

Councilwoman Brown

With the responsibility of Fairmount Park, is there any activity that you're engaged in right now up to Locust Street?

Ms. Borski

The path is in.

Councilwoman Brown

The walkway?

Ms. Borski

It's not really an officially opened park yet. They are still in process of getting to the point of the grand opening of the park, but it is something that we're in constant conversation with it because it is Fairmount Park ground and we are working with SRDC right now, Schuylkill River Development Corporation, to see what sort of arrangement we would like to put into place for the continued maintenance of that facility.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. All right, then. Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

Thank you. 93 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 The Chair again recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Is it my turn already?

Council President Verna

Yes.

Councilman Nutter

Ms. Borski, you mentioned earlier, and I can only echo your comments when you said that the consultant report -- I'm sorry; the Strategic Plan made mention of that Philadelphia, unlike any other system they had observed, had the highest level of volunteer support, which, again, is to be commended. (Applause.)

Councilman Nutter

And we are clearly the beneficiaries. What I'd like to understand, at least from the draft or from your own knowledge and information, what did the Strategic Plan tell us about the level of funding support for the Fairmount Park system as compared to other systems that they've observed across the country?

Ms. Borski

We're low.

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry? 94 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Ms. Borski

We're low in funding support. We're near the bottom.

Councilman Nutter

How low?

Ms. Borski

I don't know. They do comparisons to some other sort of major urban environments, and we would be near the bottom, but I don't have, for instance, a list in front of me of the cities they compared us to or things like that. I can try and get that to you.

Councilman Nutter

I'd appreciate that. Based on your own experience or other knowledge or information, what do you think the funding level should be to support a 9,100-acre park and the many amenities that we have in this quite unique Park system? What does it really cost to run the Fairmount Park system at a high level?

Ms. Borski

Well, that goes back to the comments that you were making earlier and hopefully now that we have engaged a Strategic Plan, are in an 18-month process, we will come up with some viable numbers to 95 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 look at to tell us exactly that. We know that we're low now. We know that if they do things on a per capita basis, and studies have been done to say that, that the numbers do come in very low. Every system is sort of unique and different. We collaborate with a lot of other city agencies. There are other cities that, for instance, would have a complete capital planning department solely within the Park system. So there's some shaking out of apples to apples and oranges to oranges in terms of making a comparison, but hopefully the Strategic Plan will be providing us with exactly those kind of figures.

Councilman Nutter

Well, I understand that. But with about a month to go and after 18 months of study, what is it that we're going to find out in the next month that we don't know today?

Ms. Borski

Honestly, Councilman --

Councilman Nutter

Where is this information coming from that will shine 96 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 the complete light, that will open all of our eyes to better understand how we get to a brighter tomorrow?

Ms. Borski

I could tell you that the drafts that I've seen have not laid out that sort of a graph or chart to say that. They talk in general terms and do offer guidelines that says that the Park system itself should figure out a way to raise more money within the Park system. I think that they would go so far as to recommend that the City would let the Park system keep some of its newly generated revenue solely within the Park system. That, for instance, would be a recommendation that I think they're going to come up with. Whether or not they are going to --

Councilman Nutter

I understand that, but many of us have been talking about that for many years. Is there a proposal on the table? Is there a discussion within the Administration to create now a separate funding source for the Park or a separate statute for the Park to allow it, 97 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 even under the best of circumstances and with your good efforts, to put all of these revenue-enhancement provisions in place, to change all of your concession contracts, to enhance the golf courses, the food concessions and everything else that you do? Don't those dollars presently go into the general fund?

Councilman Nutter

And so what mechanism will be created to insure that Park-generated revenues stay in the Park?

Ms. Borski

That will be a recommendation of the plan. I am not sure of the real technical details of how you might make that happen.

Councilman Nutter

Well, have there been any discussions with the City Administration about that?

Ms. Borski

Yes, I'm sure there have been. The Strategic Plan, while it reflects Fairmount Park, I'm sure you know, was really directed out of the Managing Director's Office. So discussions happen on a couple levels at the same time. 98 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 And I know that the sort of financial analysis of the Strategic Plan certainly is looking at making those sort of recommendations, but how it then happens, I cannot tell you.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. My last concern with regard to funding is, of the five-year plan shows the Park's budget declining every year for the next five years. How do you propose to deal with that in the context of all of these discussions?

Ms. Borski

I mean, it's a harsh reality and I think that that's -- I know you're saying I'm referring to a Strategic Plan which sort of is on the cusp of coming out, but I think we really were looking down this alley. Municipal governments are fairly strapped in what we can provide. We have a particularly unique Park system that deserves to shine. So while we're looking at the harsh reality of these numbers and potential decline, we have to take this opportunity to look at how we're going to boost that revenue. 99 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 The Park has existed for many, many years now on an operating budget from the City of Philadelphia, but that has also been enhanced by philanthropy from foundations. And I think as we look down the line, we have to look at ways to generate revenue outside of these sources.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. I'll come back.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. Safety in the park continues to be an interest to many of us, and given the regrettable horror stories we had to endure this past year, I'm curious to know, A, the level of coordination with the Police Department and, B, what kind of adjustments did you make internally to respond to those realities?

Ms. Borski

It is always hard 100 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 to hear about crime in the park. That affects all of us. It certainly reminds us that we are in an urban environment and the park is part of a city and things can happen in it. We have had good relationships with the Police Department over the years, and particularly 92nd District affects the area where the murder that you're referring to happened last summer. We are now working with the Police Department to have a single liaison for issues that happen within the Park system anywhere, and I think that will be tremendously beneficial to us.

Councilwoman Brown

And that's unprecedented, that's one adjustment?

Ms. Borski

It is unprecedented, yes. So at this point, the Commissioner has identified a captain within the Police Department who will be our liaison for activities that we have questions about within the Park system. I think that will be tremendously helpful. We always try generally to put out 101 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 the word about safety and how you have to be mindful of yourself and your possessions when you're in the park. We are constantly looking at ways to sort of improve the efforts of saying the park is a safe place and you should be there, but you have to be aware of your surroundings, like you would be anywhere else.

Councilwoman Brown

And park rangers still have as a part of their duty the role of safety, or do they?

Ms. Borski

They do. I mean, they're stewards of the park in a variety of fashions. The very fact of the uniform is a helpful enforcement tool. It should be something that you take into account, though, that safety within the Park system really does sort of fall to the citizens and their behavior in the park. We take crime to the police district. The rangers do not really have an enforcement mechanism in terms of serious criminal activity. In terms of park rules and regulations, that is their enforcement capacity. 102 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Councilwoman Brown

Is the number still of park rangers? 4

Ms. Borski

We have 18 active 5 park rangers at the moment. I'm saying that 6 number. 7

Councilwoman Brown

That's a 8 decrease over year 2000 when I first came 9 here. 10

Ms. Borski

I'm sorry. 11 They're telling me that with supervisors, 12 we're more like 22. I apologize for that. 13

Councilwoman Brown

And your 14 budgeted for what number? At one point, you 15 were budgeted for 24. 16

Ms. Borski

There's currently 17 one vacancy, so that would put us at 23. 18

Councilwoman Brown

Final 19 question: You say the level of coordination 20 with the Police Department would be that of an 21 liaison. In terms of systemic change, is that 22 individual a part of executive-level staff 23 meetings in the Park so that there is an 24 integrated approach to this whole issue of safety in the park? 103 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Ms. Borski

The police have been attending Commission meetings and are invited to attend at all times. This sort of conduit for information I think will be tremendously helpful for us. There are some places in the park where we're bounded by four police districts, sort of a crisscross right in the center of a park. So it does become difficult sometimes to try and get the information from the appropriate police district about an event. So I think this will be immensely helpful to us in terms of getting the word back and forth between the agencies quickly and then we can put it out.

Councilwoman Brown

So you're saying with a police liaison information will be more streamlined?

Ms. Borski

Absolutely.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you for your testimony. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman 104 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

This is getting to be kind of fun. Ms. Borski, you mentioned the DCNR grant earlier, that you were looking to use that as a funding source to purchase some additional property. We don't have to go through back the swap discussion. Are there any other components of the DCNR grant that you're making application to the state for for use in the Park system?

Ms. Borski

We probably have a few DCNR grants in the pipeline right now.

Councilman Nutter

Is it just one grant?

Ms. Borski

No. There would be separate grant applications.

Councilman Nutter

Can you tell me then specifically about the reviewing stance on Kelly Drive?

Ms. Borski

Yes. I would ask Stephanie Craighead to respond to your question. She's capital planning for us and has done the grant application on that issue. 105 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Councilman Nutter

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Good morning. Kindly identify yourself for the record.

Ms. Craighead

Good morning. I'm Stephanie Craighead, Deputy Director for Planning, Fairmount Park Commission. I'm sorry, Councilman. Could you repeat your question?

Councilman Nutter

DCNR grant application as it relates to the reviewing stance on Kelly Drive.

Ms. Craighead

Yes. That application is pending. We hope to hear this month.

Councilman Nutter

This month?

Ms. Craighead

Yes. We were told April, maybe early May.

Councilman Nutter

And that grant request is for how much?

Ms. Craighead

We requested 450,000.

Councilman Nutter

And is there a match requirement or do we have City 106 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 funding available as well? What's the total cost of the project?

Ms. Craighead

900,000. We already have the City match.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. So you're going to find out, you said, this month?

Ms. Craighead

We were told later this month or early May.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. If for some reason things don't go well with the state, what's the back-up plan?

Ms. Craighead

Well, we were given very positive feedback on that grant, so we're very hopeful. We don't have another park grant competing with it. The DCNR grant for the acquisition is out of another pot of money.

Councilman Nutter

Got you. Okay. Ms. Borski, with regard to further purchases of land, do we feel confident that we can take care of additional acquired land? I mean, we have the resources to take care of 107 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 an expanding Park system?

Ms. Borski

I think as we look at acquisition of land, we also talk about how we are going to maintain it, because that is the big issue. So, for instance, in the sort of Schuylkill River conversations, serious discussion about maintaining that parcel is sort of the crux of the matter, because that's what we're looking at down the road. Acquisitions along watersheds is really what the mission of Fairmount Park was from the get-go, and protecting the watershed. So I think that, yes, we are comfortable with the idea that land that we acquire, we will look long and hard at what those pieces are, make sure that they work well with the Park system and our mission and our ability to maintain them.

Councilman Nutter

Now, the Benjamin Franklin Parkway is technically within the jurisdiction of the Fairmount Park system; is that correct?

Ms. Borski

That's correct.

Councilman Nutter

Tell me 108 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 about your maintenance programs up and down the Parkway. I notice on my way home just about every night -- I won't get into whether the lights are on or off. We had that discussion yesterday, but obviously --

Ms. Borski

During the day they're on.

Councilman Nutter

-- a brand new wonderful lighting system up and down the Parkway. Tell me the Park's involvement in that.

Ms. Borski

The lighting program that's currently going on in the Park is a private initiative that we --

Councilman Nutter

Is what?

Ms. Borski

That's a private initiative funding through Center City District right now, but it's certainly one the Fairmount Park Commission supports, beautifying the Parkway. We also throw capital dollars into improvements along the Parkway. We have some in our FY05 budget.

Councilman Nutter

Let me try 109 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 to get through the different pieces. You said it was a private initiative primarily by the Center City District?

Ms. Borski

Correct.

Councilman Nutter

So they paid for all the lights on the Parkway?

Ms. Borski

This new lighting project, yes.

Councilman Nutter

The City didn't contribute to that?

Ms. Borski

There might have been some small amount contributed while we were looking at issues about wiring for future special events on the Parkway.

Councilman Nutter

And who is going to maintain these lights?

Ms. Borski

Well, Fairmount Park has responsibility for the Parkway.

Councilman Nutter

I understand that.

Mr. Curry

I can add to that a little bit. As long as it's a street light, the Streets Department will maintain the actual street lights. Pedestrian lights along 110 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 the sidewalks will fall under the jurisdiction of Fairmount Park, but there are also some lights that I believe that Center City District said, and these are pedestrian lights I believe, that they would continue to maintain. So it's sort of three different groups involved.

Councilman Nutter

So they'll just all be out there together trying to figure out who is taking care of which light all at the same time?

Mr. Curry

Any of the lights --

Councilman Nutter

That's a wonder efficiency there.

Mr. Curry

Any of the street lights that are over the actual roadway fall under the jurisdiction of the Streets Department, as they did prior to the installation.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. I heard the buzzer. Thank you very much. Well, while the Chair is tremendously distracted, so what's the Park's 111 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 responsibility?

Ms. Borski

Pedestrian lighting.

Councilman Nutter

Pedestrian lighting, you're going to take care of those? Okay.

Councilman Rizzo

I'd like a point of information on the lighting.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo for a point of information.

Councilman Rizzo

I'm confused, because I just dealt -- and by the way, it's a disgrace. I hope you're aware that someone graffitied the light standards on Kelly Drive. I noticed on the way in this morning all of the new street lights were painted with silver paint from Boat House Row north for maybe ten. When did that occur? Does anybody know? Is this the first you're hearing of it?

Ms. Borski

Actually, Councilman, your staff reported it to us this morning. I'm not sure that we had gotten a 112 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 previous report on that, but we're certainly looking at it.

Councilman Rizzo

It's a shame. It really is. But I'm a bit confused. I spoke with Joe Doyle from Street Lighting and he told me that all the street lights on Kelly Drive are the responsibility, both the ones over the roadway and the pedestrian lights, are the responsibility of Fairmount Park. No? We need to get then the Streets Department to buy into that, because every time I report a street light out on or they're on during the daylight, they say it's the responsibility of Fairmount Park. So that may be the confusion, the pedestrian versus what's over the roadway. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Councilman Nutter, Councilman DiCicco would like to be recognized and then we'll come back to you.

Councilman Nutter

Sure. Thanks. Then I'll be done in a second. 113 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco. He doesn't have a point of information, but we will recognize him anyway.

Councilman Dicicco

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. Good morning. I just have one question. During the Mayor's budget address, he spoke about the $125 million or so to go towards creating a River City, a new city called River City or something like that. Obviously the Schuylkill River fronts -- it fronts or is involved in the Fairmount Park system to a great degree and even some portions of the Delaware River. Has there been any discussion with the Fairmount Park Commission about that plan, his vision, and how do you fit into that in terms of investment part of that $125 million?

Ms. Borski

My understanding on that, Councilman, is that the Mayor is going to call for a sort of summit task force to look at the River City initiative, and certainly as landlords of the land, I think 114 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 we'll be involved in those discussions.

Councilman Dicicco

But no 4 discussion to date, so you have no idea what the concept is or what his vision is and how it would impact the Fairmount Park?

Ms. Borski

Fairmount Park certainly welcomes it. Both would encompass trail systems that are certainly beneficial to the Park system as a whole. It makes us, among other things, another reason to be a tourist destination, as well as provide a great amenity.

Councilman Dicicco

Well, I agree.

Ms. Borski

So we would be supportive of the efforts, but --

Councilman Dicicco

I agree on all those issues. I just was curious if there's been any interaction or any discussion to date about that plan or his vision.

Ms. Borski

Right. Not directly as it would impact our budget.

Councilman Dicicco

That's really where I was going, because it's a 115 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 significant piece of money that we're talking about and it certainly would help to do some of the things that need to get done in Fairmount Park, not only in terms of enhancing it, but maintaining the present level of maintenance and other things that we need to do.

Ms. Borski

Correct.

Councilman Dicicco

I drove through there. I tried to drive through there on Sunday, I should say, got off the Expressway, figured I'd cut through Kelly Drive, but it was packed. It was a sea of people literally. It was a great experience, actually, even though I was stuck in traffic for about a half hour. It really was great to see all the activity there. I have no further questions. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Ms. Borski

Thank you, Councilman.

Council President Verna

The 116 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Madam Chair, thank you. I'm going to run through these items real quick, Ms. Borski. You don't have to necessarily respond, unless you just can't contain yourself at the table, and you can just get back to us, because I know you're just having a blast. User parking plans at a variety of the park areas that generate significant traffic, I'd be interested, for instance, either up in the Wissahickon in the Forbidden Drive area or other places that have a significant number of users who also travel by vehicle. Obviously I'm concerned about using any land for parking. On the other hand, we get into some serious overflow situations sometimes which creates potential for road hazard. So I'd like to get some updated information about that. Bridges are not your direct business, but it certainly has an impact on the appearance of the park. The railroad 117 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 bridge over West River Drive at Montgomery -- you know where I'm talking about?

Councilman Nutter

That bridge appears to be experiencing some fairly serious deterioration and I have some concerns over there. Maybe there's a little bit of a mail problem going on, but we get infrequent non-regular minutes and hearing notices from the Board. I don't know whether you addressed this earlier in response to safety questions, but could you find out how many bike patrols are attached to the 92nd District that have responsibility for the park? I know from Commissioner Johnson yesterday and some of the meetings that we've all participated in we talked about an upgraded park safety plan, but I don't know that I know the answer to that. I heard you talking earlier about maintenance of toilets throughout the Park system. It's not particularly something I enjoy talking about, but in any event, in response to a lack of facilities in the park, 118 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 I know there was a serious upgrade in the past year or so of the more portable type. There would appear to be somewhat of a lack of consistency in the facility, as well as some of the damage, overturning graffiti and obviously the cleaning of such, which I think at times makes them less user friendly, because it's just not necessarily a place you want to be, if I could put it that way. I don't know that the way we've done it in sporadic kind of fashion is the optimal as opposed to maybe putting a group of them that look the same, that the vendor would be able to get to all at one time as opposed to running around a 9,000-acre park system trying to find one. There was a discussion about street trees earlier. I am clear on the process to get one. What I've had concerns about over the years, and we've talked about this one, is it possible to get a pruning schedule? You mentioned earlier I think that you prune about 14,000 trees a year. I have no idea and am in no position to tell my 119 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 constituents when it's actually going to happen or what schedule they're on. I think if I could at least tell them, Your block is going to get done in September, I mean, that's kind of better than, Sometime in the future. At the same time, and probably even worse, is the whole removal/planting situation. It often takes us forever to get the tree out, which we also can't tell them when we're taking it out, and the prospect of explaining when the replanting is going to happen is often two, three, four planting seasons later. And I've been perplexed over the years as to why we can't tell people with some amount of certainty when we're actually going to perform the service, which, to be honest with you, people feel very good about the trees, they want the trees and they wait so long after a while, that they're really more angry with us about the tree situation than the positive of when we told them we were going to get it. Lastly, a couple years ago we talked about, along the same lines as the Strategic 120 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Plan, we talked about a facilities assessment. Have we done anything with our many, many facilities and assessed their condition currently?

Ms. Borski

We're in the course of facilities assessment. Back up to porter potties, not that I want to talk about them either, but last year was the first year of that initiative and we did sort of come into the contractor at the last moment. We have made specific requests to have, if possible, a more anesthetic porter potty placement and condition and cleaning.

Councilman Nutter

And that would be for the upcoming season?

Councilman Nutter

When will that start?

Ms. Borski

They should be going into place sort of as we speak.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And you were going to tell me something about facilities?

Ms. Borski

And the facilities 121 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 assessment is something we are also working on. That was -- I think we went into some detail last year. We, as a Park system, are very much trying to get an assessment of our properties in order. There are a lot of them. It is something that is critical to the future of the park.

Councilman Nutter

I understand. Is there an end date?

Ms. Borski

200 of them are considered historic in some nature. There's about 400 or more structures all together.

Councilman Nutter

I know. Do you have an end date in sight for when the facilities assessment would be completed, and is the park doing it or is there a consultant working on it?

Ms. Borski

Well, it is an ongoing process. We have a database in place. The Strategic Plan will have done a lot of GIS work for us, which we think will be helpful in terms of identifying sites throughout the park. All the pieces coming together, I 122 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 can't give you an end date, but certainly is something that I would be happy to keep you apprised of.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. But lastly, this assessment is for the purpose of actually knowing the structural conditions and soundness of the building, as well as any maintenance or capital improvements that are necessary to maintain it at a certain level?

Ms. Borski

Correct. And currently it is a staff effort to assess these properties and put them -- and rank them by some criteria.

Councilman Nutter

Great. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Thank you. I just received a call from one of my constituents. I am told that last Saturday and Sunday hundreds of cars were parked on the grass at FDR Park and also the 20th Street entrance was blocked to park users. This has been an ongoing problem. I realize that with the demolition of the Vet, 123 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 parking is not what it should be, but at the same token, we are denying many of the people in the area from gaining access to the park.

Ms. Borski

The 20th Street entrance should not be blocked to park users ever and we will certainly look into that. Particularly in the summer months, we can -- we have staff --

Council President Verna

I would appreciate your checking into that because it's not fair to the area residents.

Ms. Borski

Positively. And we are of the understanding that parking issues in the coming months should alleviate somewhat now that the demolition of the Vet has occurred. We've tried to be very cognizant of being helpful to stadium events, at the same time acknowledging that FDR is not a parking lot, it is a park, and we're very cognizant of that. So we're trying to walk that balance.

Council President Verna

Let me ask you, people are charged for parking in FDR Park? 124 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Ms. Borski

They are.

Council President Verna

Does part of the money remain for the improvements of FDR Park?

Ms. Borski

It does. Directly into an FDR improvements fund.

Council President Verna

Do the Friends of FDR Park know how that money is being used and how much of it is being used for? Do you consult with them in any way?

Ms. Borski

We do. And your office actually has been a wonderful facilitator of conversations with Friends of FDR over the past several months. We, in fact, were due to have a meeting last week, but it was cancelled -- postponed on their end. So the discussions are ongoing and we do try to keep them very much informed.

Council President Verna

Thank you. And I would really appreciate your checking into the issue that I just brought to your attention. Thank you very much.

Ms. Borski

Absolutely, Madam 125 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 President. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.

Councilman Cohen

Thank you, Madam President. Could you state very simply the policy of Fairmount Park with respect to tree trimming and tree removal?

Ms. Borski

The criteria, Sam will speak.

Mr. Curry

Yes, Councilman, I can speak to that.

Council President Verna

Councilman, that was covered very early on. It was covered very early on. If you're going to respond, make it very brief, please, because we do have an awful lot of people waiting to testify.

Mr. Curry

Tree removal is done by inspection, depending on the health of the tree and the condition and hazardousness of a tree. 126 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Councilman Cohen

With respect to healthy trees.

Mr. Curry

With respect to health of the trees, that's correct. Tree pruning is done through request and through inspection by Park employees. We develop a list and have the trees trimmed contractually.

Councilman Cohen

Is there any special program that relates to trees near the curb line?

Mr. Curry

All the trees that fall under the jurisdiction of Fairmount Park are curb line trees, they're street trees, and that definition would be a tree that's located between the curb and the sidewalk.

Councilman Cohen

So they're all within the jurisdiction of Fairmount Park?

Mr. Curry

All the City street trees, that's correct.

Councilman Cohen

Is there any special program that Fairmount Park has that relates to circumstances where trees, healthy trees, have uprooted the pavements and made the sidewalk very dangerous for anybody to 127 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 walk on? Is there a policy with respect to that?

Mr. Curry

The policy would be an inspection of the tree to determine the health of the tree and to look at the condition of the existing sidewalk to see if the sidewalk itself could be repaired without hurting the tree. If that was not the case, then we would be inclined to remove that tree for such situation.

Councilman Cohen

You'd be inclined to do what?

Mr. Curry

Remove the tree or place the tree on the removal list.

Councilman Cohen

Do you know that, for example, let me give one small block in the area where I come from, the 1800 block of Widener Place, a lovely little street. Trees were planted there maybe 30 or 40 years ago. The trees have taken up most of the pavement, not only near the curb, but all the blocks of pavement on many of the homes are uplifted. It's very dangerous to people that 128 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 live there now, are well in their 70's some and their 80's, and it's an obstacle course and we're very scared that one of these days somebody is going to trip and not come up again. And nobody has paid any attention. How do we get that attention?

Mr. Curry

If you can give me the address again, we'll have someone inspect it and evaluate the situation.

Councilman Cohen

The 1800 block of Widener Place, and if you could give me a report. Because I think what's needed as a result of that information that I received in my examination, I've been through much of the City and find that many of these streets in the City have this problem, and I think that what is necessary is going to be the same kind of program that we have with respect to driveways and retaining walls is going to be needed or we're going to have a City that's impassable for many of its inhabitants. And I understand these trees are so enormous, they're about this wide in the base, that the costs of removal for a homeowner, if 129 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 he or she were to have the responsibility, would be several thousand dollars. That's what I've been told are the estimates. I would appreciate a full report on that, and if you can give the report to the President, I think she could send it to those of us, because I'm sure it's not a separate problem. I think it's widespread throughout the City. The trees are lovely. Obviously the developer put them in in order to make the houses more sellable as quickly as possible, but at this stage, they constitute, in addition to their beauty from looking at them, they constitute a very real danger to the people who live there.

Ms. Borski

We'd be happy to provide that report.

Councilman Cohen

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair again recognizes Councilwoman Brown. 130 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. Your response around the park rangers just raised another series of questions for me. A lot of work was done under your predecessor to hold onto the 24. How are they hired? Are they civil service, the park rangers?

Ms. Borski

No. The park rangers are not civil service. They're park employees, but not civil service.

Councilwoman Brown

How are they hired?

Ms. Borski

There is an interview possess through the park ranger coordinator. There is a Park Rangers Board still in place. You know, there is an interview process under which they are hired, but it is not the civil service process, which I assume is really what you're getting at.

Councilwoman Brown

What's the current composition of the park rangers? How many women and how many people of color?

Ms. Borski

I can get you that 131 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 information. I don't think I could say it right off the top of my head.

Councilwoman Brown

I'll look forward to that.

Ms. Borski

Sure. That's instantly available.

Councilwoman Brown

The cut that's being proposed, speak to that. Is that at all related to shifting of facilities? What is that, the 264,000?

Ms. Borski

Any cuts that Fairmount Park has taken this year are directly related to employees that have been lost due to the DROP program last year and a one-time payment for the Strategic Plan consultants.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Are there any other questions or comments from Members of the Committee? (No response.)

Council President Verna

132 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Seeing none, I thank you so much for your patience, and certainly on behalf of all of my colleagues, I certainly want to thank the wonderful work that the Friends of the Park does. Thank you. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

We applaud you.

Ms. Borski

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

The Art Museum will be next. Let's just wait until some of our friends have an opportunity to leave. (Pause.)

Council President Verna

Good afternoon. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Good afternoon, City Council President Verna and Members of City Council. I'm Anne d'Harnoncourt, Director of the Philadelphia Museum of Art. I am here with my colleagues, from my left, Robert Morrone, Director of 133 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Facilities and Operations --

Council President Verna

Anne, just a moment, please. The noise level is much, much too high. Anyone having private conversations, please do so in the corridor. Thank you.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Surely. Gail Harrity, Chief Operating Officer, and to my left, Cheryl McClenney-Brooker, our Director of External Affairs. At this very difficult and challenging time for the City of Philadelphia, I am very grateful for the chance to appear before the Council President and Council and to testify on behalf of the Philadelphia Museum of Art, which takes so much strength and indeed so much heart from its 76-year-old partnership with the City of Philadelphia. We understand very vividly how painful and how complex the City's operating budget has been to formulate this year and we recognize that the pain is widespread. 134 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 The Museum is committed to working with our colleagues in the cultural community, with the Mayor in his Administration and with each and every member of this Council to find a solution to what otherwise confronts the Museum and the City's entire cultural community so that we can go forward together and continue to contribute to the growth that is so urgently needed by all Philadelphians, growth in educational opportunity, growth in quality of life, growth in real economic terms. Council President Verna and several Council members have graciously encouraged us to make a brief visual presentation, which makes specific points which we hope will be helpful for your consideration. It presents facts and figures, which have been checked and refined by outside evaluators, and which not only help demonstrate the educational and economic impact of the Museum's collections and programs, but which also by extension demonstrates the impact of all the arts 135 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 institutions which so enrich our great City and which are collectively an invaluable engine for growth. Before I ask my colleague, Gail Harrity, to begin the presentation, I'd like just to make a few additional points. Since the City constructed the Museum's landmark building and the nearby Rodin Museum, which we are proud to administer, over 75 years ago, the Museum has consistently leveraged City support to become a resource for all Philadelphians and a magnet for visitors from around the world. It's a place where anyone of any age can participate in the full range of human creativity across six continents in 2,000 years. We work with schools, whether they are public schools, and we work very closely with the district of -- School District of Philadelphia, pre-schools, parochial schools and private schools. We work with libraries, with civic groups, with community centers and centers for aging and disability in every 136 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 councilmanic district across the City to bring art into people's lives, to inspire their hopes and dreams and, most importantly, perhaps to enrich their education. We have a pay-what-you-wish admission all day every Sunday to insure that the Museum is accessible to anyone and everyone for whom economic hardship could be a barrier. And our Sunday programs draw families from all across this great City. In the proposed fiscal 2005 operating budget, the Museum is slated to receive no funds. This cut would be devastating. 4 million over the same period. Even with that level of annual support, for which we are very, very grateful and which helped make so much else possible, the poor economic climate of the last few years has forced the Museum to lay off seven 137 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 percent of its work force last year, a loss of 28 jobs. , but we compete against far better-funded museums in New York, Washington, Chicago and beyond for the collections and the great exhibitions which we present to the public, such as Degas, Eakins and Henry Ossawa Tanner, two great Philadelphia stars which we seek to make worldwide known, and this year's Manet, next year's Salvador Dali and African Art, Africa Voices. The public/private partnership between the Museum and the City is a catalyst.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

The City's support enables us to raise private dollars, but we must balance our budget in order to receive those dollars. We, therefore, stand to lose not only City funding, but private dollars as well. If this elimination of City operating support stands, I can't bear to think of what would be in jeopardy - the number of hours or days we're open to the 138 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 public, the number of school children, families, senior citizens or those with special needs whom we serve, the major exhibitions, which draw so many Philadelphians, so many from the region and so many from across the country, which we might have to cancel. Our admission fee is $10 and pay what you wish on Sundays. A substantial increase or change to those would limit access to those very people who need the arts the most. We are committed to being more inclusive and not less. With your permission, I will now turn the microphone over to my colleague, Gail Harrity, the Museum's Chief Operating Officer, who will make the audiovisual -- the visual presentation. She is the audio.

Ms. Harrity

Thank you. And, again, we will make this a very quick presentation on the educational and economic impact of the Museum. Many members of City Council have seen earlier versions of this presentation as we were preparing for our 139 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 testimony today. This final version today presents some updated figures, which are based on the economic multipliers calculated in the 1988 by the Pennsylvania Economy League, and they have also been reviewed and confirmed by Urban Partners, an independent financial services firm which conducts economic impact studies for many industries. Each member of City Council will receive a hard copy of this presentation later today. So I will begin and go through fairly quickly, and, of course, we're here to answer questions. The Museum, as Anne has stated, had a 76-year partnership with the City and the purpose is to bring the great collections to the public, to an increasingly large and increasingly diverse audience. We rank amongst the four largest museums in the United States, housing over 250,000 works of art, each year attracting somewhere between 700,000 and a million visitors annually, and we organize special exhibition, loan exhibition, such as the Manet 140 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 exhibition currently on view. The Museum's world-class collections of art come from many continents and cultures, and they continue to educate visitors of all year and visitors of all ages. The purpose of this presentation is to focus primarily on the educational impact of the Museum, the impact on tourism and promotion and the economic impact of the Museum. So if we begin with the educational impact of the Museum, we might just remind those that the Museum has been the recipient of many awards, both locally and nationally. It is considered a national leader in distance learning, teaching school children throughout the City, throughout the Commonwealth, throughout the country. It has received the Best of Philly recognition over the past five years for its award-winning programs for children and for each year somewhere between 75,000 and 80,000 school children attend our programs. There are a number of innovative 141 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 programs, which I won't go into in depth right now, but there is a wide array of programs. The Museum has also had longstanding partnerships with the community, and we mention just a few, but in individual meetings with City Council members, I think everyone is aware that there are programs in each and every district, with Tiare (ph), with Point Breeze, longstanding relationships with the Free Library. In fact, we were very pleased last year when the Museum received praise from City Council for its partnership with the Philadelphia Dance Alliance. And this was a collaboration, which you may recall, with 60 dance companies and schools throughout the City in celebration of our Degas and the dance exhibition. We have a number of teaching posters, some of which hang on the walls in this building, that we give to the City schools free each year that highlight the collections, the Arts of Asia, African-American artists' works in our 142 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 collection, Mexican art, women artists. And we are also very proud to be the first art museum in the United States to be selected to participate in a program which will prepare outstanding minority students for careers in museums and other cultural organizations. With regard to tourism and promotion of Philadelphia, we believe the Museum is also a leader. If one is to look at the Museum, it's often a marketing icon for Philadelphia. " We were pleased to develop a good relationship with Lincoln Financial that is also supporting the Manet exhibition. The Museum is a destination definer for tourism, which the Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development reports is the second largest industry in 143 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No.

Ms. Harrity

040255 Philadelphia, and statistics show that the Museum itself generates seven to ten percent of the annual leisure travel visitors to the City. If one were to add the balance of cultural institutions throughout the City, this number would be higher. With regard to the tourists, the Museum is unique in drawing out-of-town visitors. On average, 34 percent of our annual visitors -- that's approximately 300,000 people per year -- are directly motivated to visit Philadelphia because of the Museum's programs. So, for example, last year, the Degas exhibition attracted a very high percentage of out-of-town visitors. We can tell from selling tickets now on the web that we sold tickets to visitors from every state in the country, including Hawaii and Alaska, and to visitors from six different foreign countries around the globe. So the economic impact of these special exhibitions, and we highlight in this slide only three of them over three different 144 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 years, has a substantial impact. Visitors to the Degas, Cezanne and Van Gogh exhibitions spent $12 million on hotels and had a direct economic impact of $142 million. Our exhibitions next year, in the fall, African Art, African Voices, and next year at this time, Celebration of Salvador Dali we anticipate will have a similarly strong economic impact. So if one were to look at the overall statistics, and I repeat that these are using the multipliers from the Pennsylvania Economy League and they have been reviewed by an outside source, it has been demonstrated that for every $1 spent by the Museum, it generates more than $4 of economic activity in the City and the region. 8 million of direct economic activity. That was over 52 million in the hospitality industry on hotels, restaurants, transportation and the like, and an additional almost $35 million on museum 145 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 spending, payroll of goods and services, including construction costs. 3 million, again almost $45 million from the Museum's visiting audience and the balance on the museum spending on goods and services. So not only is there economic impact, but the Museum does create jobs. For every job created by the Museum, more than five jobs are created in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania. And we've listed here the direct employment. For example, there are 391 full-time equivalent jobs that the Museum provides, of which about 345 are residents of Philadelphia, but there are other full-time equivalent jobs that the Museum directly supports through its suppliers and through the audience expenditures. So the total direct employment is over 1,900 jobs, total indirect employment is over 1,100 full-time equivalent jobs. Just to summarize these figures, and, again, we will share them later, the 146 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 5 million in tax revenues to the City and Commonwealth. So I hope that these figures have demonstrated that even during times when City Governments or Government at all levels are making very difficult budget choices, that support for the Museum and for the cultural community in Philadelphia does not come at the expense of economic development. I'd like to just end with a few supplemental charts that illustrate the history of support from the City for the Museum. This chart here -- and I apologize if it's difficult to read. I've provided it in two different formats. But the top is the cost of the City's obligation towards funding, the security building and maintenance costs of the Museum, of the City-owned building, and the bottom represents the City's support. As you can see, there was from 100 percent funding until 1994 where the support began to erode. 2 million, 147 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No.

Ms. Harrity

5 million down to 1993 when the City privatized the positions and still supported 100 percent of the security and operating maintenance costs, and then as Anne has mentioned in her testimony, for the past nine years, since 1996, the City's support has been flat at two and a quarter million. At the same time, the cost of providing security and maintenance has risen. So the City support now covers 41 percent of the total operating -- the building operating and security costs. And I think just, lastly, two slides that give you a sense of how the Museum competes with other museums across the country. This slide shows you a national comparison of municipal and county support for art museums last year in fiscal 2004. It excludes in-kind support, such as utilities that are provided in different ways to each institution, but, again, if you look at Los Angeles County Museum, over $12 million of support or the Metropolitan Museum in New York or the Art Institute in Chicago, even the 148 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Baltimore Museums receive $6 million, and the Newark Museum is supported by its city and municipality at the level of $6 million versus the two and a quarter million dollars for the Philadelphia Museum of Art. 2 million in the case 17 of Philadelphia, but the impact is the same. 18 So thank you very much, and we're 19 open to any questions you may have. 20

Council President Verna

Thank 21 you. I think that's a very good presentation. Ready for questioning?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

I simply wanted to add, if I may, in conclusion that I think what we are saying is that the Museum 149 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 seeks to reinforce and build upon that partnership as we pursue everything you've heard about today. Dollars for security and maintenance are absolutely the most difficult to raise. To drop our education and exhibition programs and focus on filling that yawning gap would set the Museum and its contribution to the City and the City's bottom line back from decades of progress. We have been fortunate to have donors who have given to the conservation. For example, we worked on Billy Penn up at the top of the tower, the Liberty Bell with the City and for exhibitions and programs, but they do it in reliance on public support. So we and the entire cultural community hope that we can find a way to move forward together for the growth this City so urgently needs and we so much want it to have.

Council President Verna

Thank you. You stated in your testimony, as we all know, the City owns the Art Museum. Is there a contractual agreement between the City and the Museum which allows you to operate the 150 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 Museum? Is there a contract?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

There is.

Council President Verna

What are the terms and conditions of that agreement?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

The most recent contract dates to 1968, I believe.

Ms. Harrity

It began in 1928.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

I will hand this to you.

Ms. Harrity

The original contract dates to 1928, revised, I believe, in 1968, and it does call -- it does spell out the City's obligation to provide utilities, security and maintenance support for the City-owned building on City land, housing City collections.

Council President Verna

Under the agreements, does the City have an obligation to pay for any portion of your operating budget, and if so, how much?

Ms. Harrity

Well, the value, as Anne has stated in the testimony, the current value of those is 5.4 million, plus 151 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 utilities, which have been estimated to be approximately $2 million. These are figures for fiscal '04.

Council President Verna

How about for '05?

Ms. Harrity

'05 we anticipate that the cost for -- that the utility cost will remain essentially unchanged and that the cost of the security and maintenance will increase to 5.9 million.

Council President Verna

If the proposed funding reductions for FY05 is not reversed, what will be the impact on your ability to operate?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

I think it's fair to say the impact will be severe. The number of alternatives that I mentioned in terms of curtailment of days open to the public or of hours, the possible cancellation of projects, it will seriously impair our ability to operate in the way that has contributed so much to our visitors and the City.

Council President Verna

But 152 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 wouldn't that affect most of your security people and maintenance people? I think you have to give us a little more information on that, please.

Ms. Harrity

May I begin by making a correction? I believe I estimated the fiscal '05 cost at 5.9, and on reviewing my figures here, we are estimating 5,637,000.

Council President Verna

I'm sorry. What was that figure again, please?

Ms. Harrity

$5,637,000 is the estimated cost for security and building maintenance costs in fiscal year '05.

Council President Verna

I believe I understood you to say that this impact would also deter you from raising private funds.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

I believe that is correct. Because the foundations, the corporations and the private individuals who contribute to the Museum, they look for a public/private partnership. They know that the building was constructed by the City, that it's one of the great City landmarks and they 153 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 rely for their contributions on public support as well. In addition, I could add that the donors to the Museum are also, and you will know many of them, they are extraordinary donors to many important causes in the City, whether it's hospitals, whether it's education, whether it's the facilities for the homeless, and we all want them to continue to contribute to those support -- to those important causes, as well as to the arts.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. Let me start out by echoing Council President's observation regarding the visual presentation, where I believe very compelling, strong arguments are given for why for restoration is the preferred ideal. Of course, Anne, you, your staff and I have had a chance to discuss in great length 154 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 and in great detail the impact of these cuts, and the bottom line is is that myself, as a former participant and user of arts and now someone who is on the public policy advocacy side of this, view these cuts to be very unacceptable, and particularly if you frame them the way your presentation has very adequately. And let me again go on record to say that I pledge to work with you, my colleagues, and others to find the funding for the Atwater Kent that is at the same place that you are for the cultural fund, which was cut by 58 percent, and for the African-American Museum, having that funding restored. Yes, this is an extremely difficult budget. Yesterday I learned that the Fire Department is being cut by 13 million. The Recreation Department is taking the steepest cut at 20 percent. So there is no question that this budget cycle is the toughest I've been through since I've been here as well. And President Verna has already answered the question, the impact that the 155 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 cuts will have on your operations. Where I am unclear is the security and maintenance costs are covered purely by the City of Philadelphia?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Councilwoman, if I may both say that the Museum and the entire cultural community are extraordinarily encouraged by your support and that of other Council people, and then proceed to answer the question. As of now, the appropriation, the operating funds given by the City in the current budget cover less than half of the security and maintenance costs. We get 2.25, and they are 4. -- it's about 44 percent -- 41 percent.

Councilwoman Brown

And so absent those dollars, you would have to figure out some other way to cover those costs? And the reality is, the private sector does not pick up the tab for security and maintenance as a rule?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

It is the most difficult money to raise. It is 156 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 considered -- it's a public building, it's a City building, it's a landmark. It's one of the great City museums across the country. Donors give to exhibitions. They give to education. They give to many, many ways to make the Museum a more effective venue for its citizens and for the public as a whole, but not for security and maintenance.

Councilwoman Brown

And additionally, the new revelation for me this morning is that absent these dollars, you're really strangled further, because then you have no public dollars to leverage private dollars?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

That's correct.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. Moving to arts education, what is the status of that to date? I recall visiting the Art Museum a couple of years ago and actually witnessing the arts education programs. Discuss that with me today.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

With pleasure, Councilwoman. The education 157 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 programs of the Museum and that were briefly touched on by Gail in her presentation I think are one of the most innovative and far reaching of the programs we conduct. We reach approximately 75,000 school children every year. We do our experts in distance learning. I should say with regard to the programs, we have really a 50-year partnership with the School District of Philadelphia. I should say a 75-year. My memory doesn't go back so far, but for 50 years, up till two years ago, there were two School District teachers assigned to the Museum permanently who participated very actively in the teaching of Philadelphia school children. Those two positions, those two people were withdrawn because of the pressure to restore teachers to the classrooms. They have not been restored to the Museum, and the Museum has filled in that gap, feeling that teaching and bringing our young people into the arts is one of the most proven and successful ways to open minds and to give a 158 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 kind of broadening, effective education, because it's so visual.

Councilwoman Brown

So then I am clear, the discontinuation of the teaching services were pre-Carl Vallas?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

The discontinuation of the presence of the School District teachers was about two years ago. It was 50 years during which we had those two teachers at the Museum.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay, then. Thank you very much. That's all at this time. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you, Madam President. In addition to the standing collection, which is tremendous and is a great draw for people to come to the City and for local regional people to come and also 159 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 tourists, the real business, though, is in the exhibitions and the real flare, the real excitement, the real enthusiasm and the real dollars are in the exhibitions; is that correct?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

That is correct, although I'm also proud to say that there is an increasing familiarity and reach of our great collections, thanks to promotional video materials that's going on, but the exhibitions make an enormous impact.

Councilman Kenney

But the real impact for the exhibitions is on the City as a whole outside of the Museum, in that it fills hotel rooms, it brings people to restaurants, it gives Philadelphia a reputation that is unparalleled. I remember in '96 when Cezanne I think was in Berlin, London and Philadelphia and --

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Paris. That's all right.

Councilman Kenney

Berlin, Paris and Philadelphia. Paris, London -- one 160 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 of those three cities.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Paris, London.

Councilman Kenney

Which is always a nice list to be in. Philadelphia being in that list of cities isn't a bad thing. And I understand that Dali is only in Philadelphia in spring of 2005.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Philadelphia is the only American venue. It will begin in Venice and end in Philadelphia.

Councilman Kenney

That's another city I like being on the same list with, Venice, Philadelphia; Paris, Philadelphia; London, Philadelphia. It's nice. Not bad. Could you talk about the loss in this operating dollars, what it does to our ability to compete with the Met, with the Art Institute, with museums in Washington and other cities that are also competing for these type of exhibitions?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

I will do so. The museums that you mentioned not only 161 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 have much larger endowments on which they draw upon annual income for supporting their operations, but they also have -- obviously the National Gallery in Washington has extraordinary support from the public sector because of the money from the Federal Government, over $60 million. And they are also particularly well positioned, I would say, because corporations which are headquartered in those cities give very generously to support exhibitions in particularly New York, Chicago and Washington and Los Angeles as well. Philadelphia, as you know, the corporate world is very pressed. They have a great many causes. We are grateful that we have --

Councilman Kenney

Great many taxes, too.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Many things to concern them, and they are -- we've had good support from corporations, but they never can cover the entire bill.

Councilman Kenney

So it's 162 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 safe to say that if we are limited in our ability to compete with these other institutions for exhibitions, not only does it affect the Museum directly and its operation, but it affects people working in the hotel, people working in the back house of the restaurant, people servicing those restaurants, people servicing the institutions that are directly benefiting, and the ripple effect for the loss of 2.2 really seems penny wise and pound foolish.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

I think it's fair to say that the impact of a major exhibition on the Museum itself is much smaller than the impact on the City at large.

Councilman Kenney

And is it true -- and I'd like to say this, I hope it is true -- that in '96 for Cezanne, the economic impact on the City for that year was greater for the Cezanne exhibition than the Eagles, Flyers, Phillies and Sixers put together?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

That is, I think, most certainly true. (Applause.) 163 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Councilman Kenney

It's somewhat a shame the Museum is not located in a sports complex. We would have no trouble. The rafters would be filled with people demanding that we build something for them. I'm ready to commit today to my vote to restoring all the funding for arts and culture that's been removed. That $4 million is a drop in the bucket compared to what this budget deficit is, and when departments like the Fire Department which turn back $20 million a year to the general fund are asking to take a more than $13 million hit, the Art Museum, which generates tremendous amounts of economic impact for the City, far beyond our meager contribution, and other departments in the City, like the Mayor's office, which is taking a 15 percent increase, I think we need to get our priorities in order. We need to know how we make our money. We need to know how the City becomes an important place in the world scene, and if we want to be a world-class city, not only do we need the Linc and Citizens Bank Park, but we need a museum 164 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 that's making a difference in the whole region and in the world. So you'll have my support totally to put that money back.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Thank you, Councilman. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair. There's some other concerns that I have that you're very dependent upon, and I have some notes, and you can confirm. I understand that the Fairmount Park Commission spends between 75 and $100,000 a year for the ground maintenance. Of that 100,000, 75,000, 65,000 is provided by an endowment through the PA Horticultural Society. So we need to make sure that that support is going to continue. Plus, there's information that the 165 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 snow removal, the trash pick-up, the turf care is also provided, paving, by the Fairmount Park Commission. There's also an indication that on the capital side, approximately $5 million has been spent on capital improvements at the Art Museum. Are you confident that this money that the Fairmount Park Commission provides is solid?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Councilman, I would say that the Museum and the Fairmount Park have had a very good and long history of collaboration and have worked together on the maintenance. I think the grounds maintenance around the Museum that you refer to in particular is supported not only by an endowment at the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society, but also an endowment at the Museum raised jointly, and also the Park is very enthusiastic about that. I mean, solid, you know, goes from year to year, but certainly we have had every indication from the Park that they want to 166 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 continue to help keep the grounds of the Museum as well as they can under their constraints.

Councilman Rizzo

Going back to this budget potential, the budget cut, how does it affect -- we have a certain level of security that I assume is analyzed by various exhibitors or -- what's the word I'm looking for here? The exhibitions. If that would diminish, what would the impact be on a person that would want to loan you a very valuable -- could the quality of what we have in the Museum pertaining to what's loaned to us, could that be affected?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

That is an excellent question. The International Museum Community, the American Museum Community adhere to very specific standards of security, of care for both the permanent collections and very particularly for exhibitions at which other institutions works of art are present. For example, in the present Manet exhibition, there are works of art lent by lenders, public and private, from across the world. 167 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 We cannot in any way afford to diminish those standards or we would forfeit the exhibition loans which you can see right now.

Councilman Rizzo

With this budget cut, would you fall below that bar and not be able to get some of the exhibitions and some of the loaned art to the facility?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

I think the danger of doing that is very real. I think curtailing security standards is not really an acceptable thing to do. So whether we have to close more galleries, whether we have to curtail exhibitions, however we have to respond to that, what galleries are open, what exhibitions are open have to be -- they have to have the proper standards.

Councilman Rizzo

My last request for information to the Chair would be, I'd like to know, and I guess I could do the research by looking in the budget book for the Department of Public Property, but I would like to know the value of the utilities, the gas, electric, water, if you could provide 168 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 that information to the Chair. And I know one of the problems that we have here in government that the operating departments, like the Recreation Department and others, are not responsible for their utilities. Some day that needs to get fixed, where the Recreation Department has to take care of the budget for their own electric bill. Then energy management, I think, would be a more important subject in the various departments. Even though you get your utilities provided in your deal, what are you doing in the area of energy management? Because it wouldn't be my priority, I guess, if I weren't paying, but I would hope being responsible, knowing that that is a very significant contribution, that you're working with the energy office to make sure that you are doing the best you can do over there.

Council President Verna

Councilman, I think they're well prepared to respond to your question. I know they've been nodding their heads. So I think rather than 169 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 mailing the information, they want to put it on record right now.

Councilman Rizzo

Okay.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

I would like Bob Morrone, our Director of Facilities and Operations, to respond.

Mr. Morrone

Thank you, Councilman. I'd just like you to know that we've been working very closely with Kent Miller from the Municipal Energy Office for a number of years now on programs at the Art Museum relative to lighting, our utility consumption in terms of steam consumption, and we've looked at a number of areas where we are looking towards the future for continuing that refinement and development as well.

Councilman Rizzo

The reason I'm asking, the Azalea Garden lights have been on for a month during the daytime.

Mr. Morrone

Thank God they're not on our energy bill. I don't know whose bill they're on, but --

Councilman Rizzo

But they're at the Art Museum, right? 170 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Mr. Morrone

No, not the Azalea Garden.

Councilman Rizzo

The lights going up that path towards the Art Museum? No? Okay. Well, they're still on, so when you see them on, let them know.

Mr. Morrone

We'll check into that.

Councilman Rizzo

What's the value of the utilities?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Approximately 1.9 million.

Councilman Rizzo

Great. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

At last. Good afternoon.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Good afternoon.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you so much for that presentation which we saw 171 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 during our visit to the Museum for the Manet exhibition, which is outstanding. I don't have any questions because the questions have been asked that I would ask about the impact of the loss of funding on the Museum. I'd just like to offer my support for the restoration of the cuts and will work very hard to see how we do that. This is a very difficult budget and it seems that whenever cuts are made, they always go to the arts and culture first. I just want to say that I'm very proud of your programs at the Museum, as you know, and I've said this over and over again. I worked there for a number of years, and certainly when I was there, the outreach to the community was not as it is today, and I thank you for your leadership, Anne. You and I were youngsters there. And the inclusion of the entire Philadelphia community, particularly the expansion of the education program, is just outstanding. I think you provide a valuable service. And I know how much I learned when I worked at the Museum and 172 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 how it helped me when I was taking my exams. I scored very high on the English and culture section because of the exposure to the Philadelphia Museum of Art. And you've done a wonderful job. You do have a serious -- you make a serious contribution to this City, and we always send our visitors to the Philadelphia Museum of Art. You have to go. And they know it when they come. And as a participant with the National League of Cities, they were here in 1997 and when I say, I'm from Philadelphia, they say, Oh, we had a great time in Philadelphia and we went to the Museum, it's really a great place. So we certainly applaud you all, you and your staff, for the hard work you do and for the program. And I will say, Anne, I believe that the movement of the Museum in a positive direction can be directly attributed to your leadership. I want to thank you.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Thank you, Councilwoman. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank 173 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. d'Harnoncourt, let me start with your testimony and then I'll have a couple of other questions. indicates that even with the $2.25 million in City funding in the current fiscal year, because of the poor economic climate, you were forced last year to lay off seven percent of your work force, a loss of 28 jobs; is that correct?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

That's correct.

Councilman Nutter

And if we were not having this unfortunate discussion about the possible loss of all of your funding, but if you were to stay at the level where you are, and you've been at that level from the City for the last, is it --

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Nine years.

Councilman Nutter

-- nine 174 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 years? If you received everything that you have now, what would be the impact on the Art Museum?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

If we continued to receive the level that we're at, it would give us a base to go -- the base to go forward from. We need to try to build slowly, but surely back up to an even greater level of service. It would provide that base.

Councilman Nutter

And you're expecting a number of additional exhibits and activities in the upcoming fiscal year. So is it fair to say that you at least need to stay where you are in order to be able to put on the programs that you're anticipating next fiscal year?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

I think it's fair to say that staying where we are would be very important. We understand the pain. We understand the difficulty everywhere, and we're very -- we're very cognizant of that. Staying as close to where we are would mean that we can go forward with some real hope and 175 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 energy.

Councilman Nutter

And let me ask this question again: But for our serious economic times, and I agree that we do have serious economic times, but we make a variety of decisions and we make investment decisions and we make strategic decisions, had you anticipated making any additional requests this year based on prospective activity at the Art Museum?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

We have from time to time come to Council and asked for some additional support in light of particular exhibition projects that we have underway, and the Council has been good in hearing those very thoughtfully, whether it's a transfer ordinance or whatever it has been. In the years when we have a very major exhibition, and we believe that Dali will be that -- actually, all our exhibitions for next year are very exciting -- we incur additional costs that are not covered by any -- by whatever sponsorship we can get. So in a normal year, we would 176 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 definitely have come and asked for more support.

Councilman Nutter

And in FY05, given the type of exhibits that you expect to have, what would you anticipate or project those additional costs to be?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

I think for the Dali exhibition itself is going to cost us between two and a half and three million dollars. And if it is -- if it really is a remarkable success, surprisingly enough, it will cost us more because of the extra guard staff, the extra maintenance people, the extra things we need to do to keep the collections and the exhibition secure during what we hope is a large public visitation.

Councilman Nutter

And then is there an offset to those expenses by patronage or other fund-raising activities?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

There is. As the Museum's budgets have been constructed over the years, we have never quite had the leeway to have the receipts from the exhibition go to support the exhibition. They 177 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 have gone to the bottom line of the institution. So there will definitely be some offset, but I can't calculate how much. But the increased cost will, we project as of now, will be quite significant.

Councilman Nutter

If you could forward to us through the Chair in prior years where you've had this additional expense generated by significant exhibits and what the history has been over the last, say, five to ten years of additional support based on significant exhibitions at the Art Museum, that would be very helpful.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

We'd be happy to do so.

Councilman Nutter

Ms. Harrity, could you provide to us a copy of both of the leases that you made reference to, the 1928 and the 1968?

Ms. Harrity

Yes, I'd be happy to.

Councilman Nutter

And is it my understanding from your testimony that 178 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 those leases require the City of Philadelphia to cover your operating costs and utilities?

Ms. Harrity

They are agreements which do spell out the requirement for utilities, security and operating and building maintenance costs.

Councilman Nutter

And in the current fiscal year, that number is $7.4 million, of which the City is providing 2.25 -- I'm sorry; $5.4 million in operating costs, the City is covering utilities and then supporting the other expense with the 2.25?

Ms. Harrity

Exactly.

Councilman Nutter

Next year you expect that number to go to 5.6?

Ms. Harrity

That's correct.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. I take tremendous advantage. Madam Chair, could I have the Budget Director at the table, please?

Council President Verna

Certainly. Is Mr. Dubow here?

Councilman Nutter

While he's coming up, Ms. d'Harnoncourt, do you know of 179 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 any other city-owned facility that generates the kind of economic impact that the Philadelphia Museum of Art does?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Sorry. I beg your pardon. I was distracted by the arrival of my colleague.

Councilman Nutter

Are you aware of any other city-owned facility that generates the level of economic impact that you've laid out for us in the PowerPoint presentation?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

I think that's a difficult question to answer, but I am not aware of same. I believe the kind of public impact that we're referring to, I would think the Liberty Bell is clearly one of the greatest attractions. That's not, I believe, a city-owned facility. I believe it's Federal Government.

Councilman Nutter

I think we own the bell. They may own the building or something.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

We own the bell, good for us. I should know that. Thank 180 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 you.

Councilman Nutter

I'm stunned that I could tell you anything that you don't already know.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Oh, much, I'm sure. And I think the Constitution Center is beginning to generate, but, again, I don't believe that's a city-owned facility.

Councilman Nutter

No, it's not.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

The city-owned facilities like the library generate many, many kind of things, but it's not a particular economic impact.

Councilman Nutter

Right. I understand. Mr. Dubow, what was the level of support from the City of Philadelphia for the two sports stadiums in the sports complex?

Mr. Dubow

For the two -- I don't know the exact numbers. I don't have that with me.

Councilman Nutter

Was it 181 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 about $400 million?

Mr. Dubow

Over 30 years, that was -- that may be the right number. I mean, it sounds about right.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And on an annual basis, didn't this City Council and the Government agree that we would also provide a minimum of $6 million in operating and maintenance support to the one stadium?

Mr. Dubow

We agreed to provide operating and maintenance support. I'm not sure what the lowest number year was, but I think it was -- I think it was about six or maybe even a little more.

Councilman Nutter

Well, in 2003, it's $6.8 million. It stays at that level until 2007. In 2008, it goes to $7.8 million. In 2013, it goes to $9 million. In 2018, it goes to $10 million, and in 2023, it goes to $11 million for a sports facility. But the proposal is -- which we don't own that facility, do we?

Councilman Nutter

But the 182 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 proposal is is that we would zero out funding for the Philadelphia Museum of Art, which we built and we own?

Mr. Dubow

The proposal is to eliminate the operating subsidy, to maintain utilities payments at about 2 million and to maintain capital costs, which are also about 2 million in '05.

Councilman Nutter

And what's the economic impact of the stadium that we support at this level?

Mr. Dubow

There was a detailed study that Arthur Andersen, I guess, did and laid out the economic impact. According to that impact, the stadiums would pay for themselves, but I don't have the detailed dollars with me on that.

Councilman Nutter

Exclusive of this operating and maintenance support?

Mr. Dubow

No; including that.

Councilman Nutter

And how many visitors do we get to the sports stadium?

Mr. Dubow

I don't know. I don't have support stadium information with 183 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 me.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. But I think you would understand that four years later, in the excitement of supporting sports stadiums, which I voted for, we now find ourselves in a position of being asked to zero out operating support for our own Philadelphia Museum of Art, the Atwater Kent Museum, African-American Museum and other art and cultural institutions, which clearly on their own generate more of an economic impact, more of a public impact. I don't know how many school kids go to the sports stadium, but I know a whole lot of them go to the Philadelphia Museum of Art. They get a lot of programming support and experience, an entirely different world, than they're ever going to experience down at the sports complex. Very exciting, love to see the players. 30-year-old facility was not good enough and so we had to spend enormous sums of money. And so this is the conflict that we now find ourselves in, and I think that it 184 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 is -- at a certain level, I mean, it's just probably two steps short of outrageous that we would do the one and now propose to do this to our own Art Museum. So, I mean, I think it's a comparison worth additional conversation, but I did at least want to get on the record what our support had been, what is being proposed here for this. And I don't think the one is in any way, shape or form comparable to the other. Lack of support for the Philadelphia Museum of Art, if we were in a religious context, would possibly qualify as a mortal sin. It is outrageous. It really is. (Applause.)

Councilman Nutter

I'm finished, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Kelly.

Councilman Kelly

Thank you, Madam Chair. I couldn't agree more so with Councilman Nutter in his remarks. I just want to say, of course, Anne, I want to thank you 185 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 and your colleagues for that excellent presentation you have given us this morning. There's a couple things that I would like to discuss. Of course, all of -- you have heard from Councilwoman Brown and Councilman DiCicco yesterday and myself and now you've heard from Councilman Kenney and Nutter and Councilwoman Tasco today. I think all of us are in support of all of our cultural institutions of this City. There's no doubt about it. I think it's a great investment. I think it's investing in our growth of our City, and I think that without it, we wouldn't be a world-class city. There's no doubt about it. The only unfortunate part about it is that we have to face reality, and the reality of the situation, that we're facing a fiscal crisis in this City. We're asking all departments to take substantial cuts throughout this whole City Administration and City Government. With that, with saying that, we are 186 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 going to try to do our best, to do our best to put back as much as we can into the budget to help you to continue the great work that you're doing. There's no doubt about it, that without your institution, without the Museum, without a lot of other things, this City would not be where it is today. This is a small investment, as I said before. I feel more comfortable in the ballpark, to be honest with you. I like the Phillies, I like the 76ers and the Flyers and everyone else, but, there again, with all of that, with all the media exposure that they receive throughout the year, and you can pick up any newspaper and see five or six pages full of sports, they bring in a little over 3 million people to the City. We're out very little exposure. The culture institutions, our art museums and everything else bring in over 11 million people, and I think that being said, that we have an investment to make, of course, with the Museum of Art and all of our other cultural institutions. I think it's very, 187 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 very important. Now, one of the things I would like to ask you is, what is the percentage of your funding that comes from the private sector?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

We will have to calculate that for a moment, because it comes in two different forms. One is income from endowment that has been built up over a very long period of time. That's not individual gifts in any current year. And the other is current income.

Ms. Harrity

And what I would add, and we can give you the specifics, supply that in writing to you, but the City support for fiscal '04 was six percent and the balance, as Anne has said, is from earned income such as memberships and admission, endowment income and private donations. So approximately 50 percent -- is that right? So six percent City, approximately 30 percent earned income, 40 percent contributed and roughly 24, percent, 24 25 percent endowment income. So the public 188 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 support of the City is six percent.

Councilman Kelly

Six percent, that's the City's support. And the City, according to your testimony today, the City support has dropped at 41 percent of the security cost of the Museum; is that correct?

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

That's correct.

Councilman Kelly

And what year is that starting from?

Ms. Harrity

I'm sorry. The year of support was at 100 percent of support until 1994, and then it has been dropping consistently.

Councilman Kelly

And substantially dropped since then?

Ms. Harrity

Since then, since 1994. Now, in fiscal '04, it represented 41 percent of those operating costs for security and building maintenance.

Councilman Kelly

Well, I know I can speak for many members of this Council, we want to absolutely be looking forward to working with you to see what we can do to 189 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 restore as much funding as we possibly can to your fine institution. Thank you.

Ms. Harrity

Thank you.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Thank you very much.

Councilman Kelly

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

I think you all know the sentiments of this body. I think we've all been very loud and clear. I wish we could definitely tell you what we're going to do, but at this point, we just don't know where we're going. However, I do want to thank you for the wonderful work you do, and you'll be hearing from us before long.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

We are very grateful for the Council's attention and for your permission to show the PowerPoint.

Council President Verna

Thank you. I think that says it all. That was wonderful.

Ms. D'Harnoncourt

Thank you, all of you, for your support. 190 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255

Council President Verna

Thank you. Thank you very much. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

We're going to call a 20-minute recess because we have stenographers that are going to have to make a switch. So we'll be back in about 9 minutes. 10 (Short recess.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 191 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Council President Verna

We are now back in session. The next department to testify will be the Recreation Department. Is the Commissioner here? Good afternoon.

Mr. Richard

Good afternoon, Madam President.

Council President Verna

I would suggest that Council members that are in their office please come down for testimony from the Recreation Commissioner. All right, Commissioner. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Richard

Good afternoon. Madam President, honorable members of City Council, I'm Vic Richard, Recreation Commissioner. I'd like to take a moment to introduce my executive team. To my right and your left is Deputy Commissioner Mary Platt Coles. To my left and your right, Deputy Commissioner Carlton Williams. And Deputy Commissioner Carapucci is somewhere 192 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 in the house. Thank you for giving us the opportunity today to come before you to present our budget request for '05. I'd like to begin by highlighting some accomplishments from Fiscal Year '04, beginning in our maintenance unit. In '04 we continued our reputation for excellence by completing the rehab of two more facilities, Vare, and Francis Myers recreation facilities. Due to the completion of these two facilities, there are now six facilities --

Council President Verna

Both in my District. Aren't you lucky.

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Or aren't I lucky?

Mr. Richard

They're both in your District. UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Didn't hear you.

Council President Verna

And aren't I lucky. 193 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

It was perfect timing, the proper time to invest time and money in those facilities.

Council President Verna

And they both needed it, believe me.

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am. There are now six facilities that have been renovated by the recreation maintenance staff within months. This 11 demonstrates our commitment to service. 12 Over a five-month period we 13 installed new play equipment at four 14 playgrounds: 11th and Venango, Granahan, 15 Ferco, and Sergeant and Webber. 16 We believe this type of service to 17 our citizens is what they deserve, and we 18 will continue our commitment to provide 19 this level of quality work. 20 In our programming unit as part of 21 our City's commitment to its youth, we 22 opened a fourth teen center at Francis Myers in November of '03. We are proud to announce the opening of a fifth teen center at Shepherd in May 194 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 of '04. And if I may go on record, I believe that date is May 18th of '04 we will open the fifth teen center at Shepherd recreation facility. The department just recently celebrated its 50th anniversary show of its Citywide dance program. We also just recently hosted the National High School Wheelchair Championships at St. Joe's University that attracted over 400 participants and their parents and guests from cities across the United States. 14 In 2004 the department -- We just 15 recently received last month five awards 16 from the State Conference of Pennsylvania Recreation and Parks Society. The awards that we received were relative to the senior art camp, our teen center concept and program, the Bridesburg Recreation Center swim show, and also our performing arts program. And lastly, the directory of programs that we published last year. In our administration department, 195 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 one of our greatest accomplishments is the ongoing development of our work force. In '04, the recreation staff is receiving training through continuing education seminars in the camping program conferences, supervisory and management courses, aquatics facility management seminars, and various computer courses. Up to 200 full-time program and management staff will receive diversity sensitivity training by the end of '04. And that training began Wednesday of last week. Our FY '05 budget request. 1 million in the General Fund. 9 million; DROP savings $164,000; decrease in the DROP lump sum payments of $1 million; transfer of the Mural Arts Program out of the department of a half a million; and grant support of the Older Adult Program of 196 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 $500,000; and a reduction in the Philadelphia Activities Fund of $800,000; a reduction in service provider contracts, $289,000; and various other adjustments. The City is no longer able to properly operate and maintain all 158 recreation centers and 87 pools. 9 million at 58 centers and 43 pools, which each has larger populations. Philadelphia is well above the median among large cities for the number of facilities per capita, in part because it has an infrastructure designed for a city of over 2 million. Decisions must be made so that the facilities that can continue to operate and provide programs for the citizens of Philadelphia can do so in optimal 197 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 condition. Over the years the City of Pittsburgh was not able to make the tough decisions that included closing some of its aging or underutilized rec facilities. Due to its budget crisis in '03, Pittsburgh practically closed all of its rec centers and most of its pools. These facilities have not been scheduled for reopening as of yet. What happened in Pittsburgh will not happen in Philadelphia. The Rec Department, along with the Administration and the City Council, are currently engaged in discussions to determine the following: What facilities could be possibly transferred, leased or sold to an interested outside party, where facilities that are under utilized could be consolidated with other programming areas, if the facility is deemed obsolete should it be closed or demolished and/or sold.

Mr. Richard

We realize the importance and the play value of public recreation. So we 198 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 have proposed a lot of the following: That there will be no drop in services for after-school programs and camps that are currently provided at facilities that may be closed, sold, or transferred. Provisions for these program services will be a condition of any transfer or lease arrangement made with a third party. Any tennis or basketball facility or play equipment should continue to be maintained by the City. Obsolete facilities that are demolished should be replaced with passive green space, where feasible. And we also recommend that spray parks should be considered for playgrounds where pools may be considered for closing. In FY '05 the department, we will continue to focus on its core services and mission with the following initiatives: The continuance of standardizing the programming and after school programming, continue implementation of the citywide 199 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 playground inspection schedule for the City's recreation play equipment, the implementation of a language access policy for the City's population with limited English proficiency, and maintain and enhance operations for our teen centers. 6 million in fiscal year '05. Some of our rec operating grants are the summer food programs and also for snack programs, our Human Services Development Fund for our Older Adults Programs, our Local Law Enforcement Block Grants, and Juvenile Accountability Incentive Block Grants. In closing, we are proud of the role that the Recreation Department plays in contributing to the quality of life for all Philadelphians. We thank the City Council for its support and its leadership. And we'll be glad to answer any questions that you may have for us now. 200 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you, Commissioner. You did indicate that your General Fund is being reduced by approximately $10 million. And I think you itemized some of those reductions. How will that affect your operational impact?

Mr. Richard

In my testimony the breakdown I gave... I think the area, Madam President, that you're most interested in is the area with the playgrounds and facilities. That's approximately $3.9 million to $4 million. In order for the department to achieve the cut that has been presented and proposed, it would take into consideration the closing of the five ice skating rinks, 20 swimming pools, 40 recreation facilities, along with approximately 40 summer camps as well.

Council President Verna

How do you come up with the rationale of $4 million 201 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 due to too many facilities? Councilman Nutter, did you want to...

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry. I just... I was looking in the budget book, Madam President. Could we ask the Commissioner to repeat that? I didn't understand the answer.

Council President Verna

I didn't either. I'm afraid we may have understood it. I asked what the impact of some of the cuts would be, the General Fund of approximately $10 million. Do you mind responding to that again, please?

Mr. Richard

Not at all. In order to achieve the proposed budget cut that has been presented, as far as to get to the proposed number, is to take into consideration the closing of the 5 ice skating rinks, 20 swimming pools, approximately 40 summer camps, and 40 recreation facilities. 202 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilman Nutter

ice rinks, swimming pools, 40...

Mr. Richard

40 summer camps, and 5 40 rec centers. 6

Councilman Nutter

That's $10 7 million. Is that what you're saying, 8 Commissioner? 9

Mr. Richard

The right-sizing 10 effort that we're presenting right now is 11 approximately $3.9, almost $4 million. 12

Council President Verna

That's $4 13 million. 14

Mr. Richard

That's correct. 15

Council President Verna

That 16 you're cutting. 17

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am. That is 18 in the area. 19 The rest of the money, Mr. 20 Councilman, is between the Vet Stadium, the transferring of the Mural Arts Program...

Council President Verna

How about the Recreation Activities Fund?

Mr. Richard

I'm sorry. I had to get back to my notes. Yes, ma'am. 203 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 $800,000 of that money as well is the Activities Fund as well.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

I want the record to be eminently clear. The figures that you're talking about, the closing of the 5 swimming pools, the 40 summer camps, 40 recreation centers, you mean that comes to $4 million?

Mr. Richard

With the calculations that we have, yes, ma'am, right at $4 million.

Council President Verna

What studies have you conducted in order for you to come to this conclusion, and how do we know what facilities are under utilized?

Mr. Richard

The first part of your question is what studies have we done. There was an analysis that was done, and I hope you all received that analysis.

Council President Verna

I don't recall seeing it. 204 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

It was an analysis that --

Council President Verna

Do any of the Council members recall seeing the analysis?

Councilman Nutter

What is the title of the document?

Council President Verna

What is the title of the document that's being questioned?

Mr. Richard

It's the Recreation Facility Analysis. I'd have to check with finance to see where it is. I can ask Mr. Dubow. There is an analysis that was done with the other 17 cities as well. 18 We've been also working very 19 diligently with the Planning Commission as 20 well, to take a look at the national standards and the median, of where Philadelphia falls with the population. Also the number of pools that we have, the number of open green spaces that we have, and also the number of recreation 205 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 centers that we have. So the answer to that question is... to... is yes. The criteria that was used... I want to make sure that I quote perfectly. Hang on. The criteria that we used in studying, we looked at the age of the facility. We looked at facilities that were 40 years old and older, 30 years old and older. We looked at the type of material that the building was constructed with. We looked at that design and the layout of the facility, and also evaluated it for its practical and intended use, and evaluate risk and safety as well. We also took into consideration the present structural condition. We also looked at the usage, being the volume of clients or customers that are being served. We took into consideration the proximity to the location, to another facility, and the type of facility that is in that proximity, and also the density of 206 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the calculation versus the location of facility as well.

Council President Verna

Well, we today received correspondence from you, Commissioner, regarding some of the questions that were asked of you during the Capital Budget. And to be very candid with you, I know I have not had an opportunity to even look at it. Does it indicate the usage of the facilities?

Mr. Richard

That document that you have now?

Council President Verna

Yes, the one you gave us today.

Mr. Richard

No, ma'am, that document doesn't have that.

Council President Verna

It doesn't. Well, I know that with a list that was provided to me or some that may or may not be in my District, I did talk to many of my constituents, who tell me that some of these facilities for closure are really 207 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 utilized. Who do I listen to? Do I listen to them who use the facility? You're not telling me how you got to the information or to the point where you believe that there is no usage or not enough usage. (Applause.)

Mr. Richard

I rely on valid information from my executive team, and also all of the staff and subordinates, and that's where my information comes from. And I use that information that I rely upon that is to be valid in order to render business decisions, and also to make recommendations to City Council or any other person.

Council President Verna

Can we have copies of the utilization data for all facilities, please?

Mr. Richard

Sure. I can provide that for you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

I'll give you a perfect example. And I see that some of my constituents have been sitting here 208 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 since 9:30 this morning. I did not know that they were coming in. But I'll give you a perfect example. Wharton Square was supposed to be on the closure list. Let me just give you a little history on that one. Many years ago Congressman Barrett's office was directly across the street from the park. There was a small building in the park that was supposed to be used by senior citizens to play cards or checkers. Many of the seniors passed away. When Congressman Barrett passed away, I used to sit in his office every Wednesday evening, and all I could hear were bullet shots in the park. Recreation then took that building over. And I will tell you that they now have such a wonderful program that a couple of years ago we actually expanded the building. We have one part-time worker, six volunteers, and we have a gentlemen who lives in the community and cleans the park. 209 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 As a result of that, because of all of the activity, you no longer hear gunshots in the park. If we were in fact to close that, the children would have no programs in that area, the building would be closed and probably be utilized by drug dealers, as they were doing in the park years ago. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

And secondly, the building would be so vandalized that it would cost us ten times more to put it back into the condition that it is today. Please tell me we are not closing that facility.

Mr. Richard

Madam President, there is no definitive list to close anything.

Council President Verna

But how do we vote on a budget when we don't know what facilities are being closed?

Mr. Richard

I agree. (Applause.)

Mr. Richard

There have been recommendations. And I want to go off the 210 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 top of my head to say, and I believe the facility that you mentioned is Wharton Square.

Council President Verna

Yes, it is.

Mr. Richard

I want to go on record to say that off the top of my head Wharton Square is not on that recommended facility list.

Council President Verna

It had been. It had been. So, how do we know what facilities are being proposed for closure?

Mr. Richard

We can provide you all with another listing of the proposed recommended facility listings.

Council President Verna

And when will we receive that?

Mr. Richard

I can have that to you tomorrow morning.

Council President Verna

Do you have that in your office at the moment?

Mr. Richard

It's not typed up. Half of it's typed up. The rest of it is 211 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 handwritten, with some additions we had to make.

Council President Verna

Commissioner, it's no secret that you were coming here today.

Mr. Richard

No, it's not a secret.

Council President Verna

It wasn't a secret. Why wouldn't you be prepared in telling us what was being proposed for closure?

Mr. Richard

Madam President, if you would like me, you can give me a few minutes, I'll go right back to my office. I'll grab the document and come back, if you'd like to.

Council President Verna

Oh, I think you could send somebody to your office and get it while you're sitting here.

Mr. Richard

Fantastic.

Council President Verna

Will you do that?

Mr. Richard

Sure. 212 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Council President Verna

Commissioner, if we don't get that list during the course of this hearing, I don't know that we go any further.

Mr. Richard

Madam President, Deputy Commissioner Carapucci says he believes he has a copy of what we worked on again yesterday. And if he does, we will discuss it and present it now.

Council President Verna

Can you tell us what will happen to the centers once they're closed?

Mr. Richard

The majority of the facilities that are being recommended are small C and D facilities. Those facilities that we're recommending closing, we're recommending to maintain the property. So in that --

Council President Verna

The property and the building?

Mr. Richard

No, not --

Council President Verna

Are you talking about the building? Is there a building that will be closed? 213 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

That -- that --

Council President Verna

What will you do --

Mr. Richard

That is correct.

Council President Verna

What will you do with the building once it's closed?

Mr. Richard

We are making the recommendations to demolish the building, and to create more green space, and to maintain any preexisting facilities that is on the property. So if there's basketball courts or any tennis courts or play equipment, the City is recommending to maintain those amenities to the neighborhood.

Council President Verna

So you're telling us, as I understand it... I just don't want to misunderstand anything you're saying.

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

You're telling us that every facility that you're closing, the building will be demolished?

Mr. Richard

We're also 214 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 recommending, Madam President, to do leases or transfers or either sales of some of the properties, relative to any individuals, any non-profits, clergy or whatever, that we may have an opportunity to maintain that facility and the operation, to relinquish the fiscal responsibility of the --

Council President Verna

Do you have any determination, a, how much it would cost, if in fact you demolished; b, how many people are interested in purchasing any or all of these facilities; and, c, if they're not, what are you going to do with them?

Mr. Richard

We don't have an idea yet of the demolition costs. We do have an idea on some of the facilities where individuals or non-profits have expressed an interest, and...

Council President Verna

In purchasing. In purchasing?

Mr. Richard

And purchasing.

Council President Verna

Or leasing? 215 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Is it purchasing or leasing?

Mr. Richard

It's both, Madam President. And what was the last part of your question? I'm sorry.

Council President Verna

I just wondered if in fact somebody doesn't show any interest. You're saying you're going to demolish. Wouldn't you want to know how much it would cost for the demolition? It may end up costing you more for the demolition than it would cost to keep the facility open for a year. (Applause.)

Mr. Richard

That is something that we're interested in, yes, ma'am. Thank you.

Council President Verna

I'll come back. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you, Madam 216 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 President. Commissioner, does this proposed list have to be approved or is the proposed list the final list?

Mr. Richard

I'm under the impression that it has to be approved, sir.

Councilman Kenney

Okay. Who has to approve it?

Mr. Richard

I want to say it will be approved by yourselves, along with the Administration.

Councilman Kenney

So, the list is available now, the proposed list, and there's approval process. Can you tell me what that process is?

Mr. Richard

We've been going around having one-on-one meetings with each of the District Council members and with some of the at-large as well, to answer questions to present the recommendations. And right now, to my knowledge, and right now, there's no definitive list as of yet.

Councilman Kenney

Will we be voting on that list specifically, and will 217 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 District Council members have the ability to remove or to add or to do anything like that?

Mr. Richard

Those are some of the things that we've been asking for, participation and leadership from the Council members, yes, sir.

Councilman Kenney

So, what the Council member of the particular District wants will happen?

Mr. Richard

I can't answer that one. Maybe Rob Dubow or someone else can answer that.

Councilman Kenney

Would we be expected to approve this budget prior to the finalization of the list? Yesterday we learned we're losing 19 percent of our ladder companies and 7 20 percent of our engine companies. But the 21 Commissioner couldn't tell us where they 22 were or wouldn't tell us where they were 23 but expects us to pass a budget prior to 24 knowing it. 25 Do you have that same expectation 218 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 that we'll be passing a budget prior to knowing what the facilities are that's going to be closed, leased, transferred or demolished?

Mr. Richard

No, sir. I'm prepared to discuss that and present -- But I defer that question to Mr. Dubow or anyone else.

Councilman Kenney

He's here.

Mr. Dubow

The answer is, we would propose to have a definitive list before you take first vote on the budget.

Councilman Kenney

That would also include the Fire Department?

Mr. Dubow

That would include both departments, yes.

Councilman Kenney

Okay. Fine. That's a good answer. The ice rinks. What do you propose to do with the ice rinks? Because my understanding, from my personal experience with many of them, is that they're pretty vibrant, active, self-productive type of places. You said either lease or sale or 219 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 closure of five ice rinks. What's that all about? I'll have no place to coach next year.

Mr. Richard

Those were some of the considerations that we put into the recommendations that we had to make, in order to meet the cut that was presented. If we have the opportunity to turn ice skating rinks over to a private entity, advisory groups or whatever, that what's being proposed now is part of the consideration, is that if the City is fiscally unable to operate them and maintain them, that they would be considered not to operate next year.

Councilman Kenney

I know there's been a lot of capital dollars invested in those facilities in the last four or five years. Do you have any idea how much money was put into those facilities? Could you get that information, as to how much capital improvements have been made? I know new ice surfaces and cooling 220 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 systems and roofs and other things have been put on. And now we're thinking about perhaps unloading them? And they're very active. All the ones that we have in the City, along with a lot of other facilities, are extremely active. I can't see why that's the place where we'd be looking. Have you met with community groups to explain the impact of the department's budget reductions, specifically the Recreation Citywide Advisory council? If not, any reason why?

Mr. Richard

No, I haven't met with them as of yet. I was trying to wait to meet with them when I had more definitive answers to talk to them, relative to the total amount of facilities, what the final budget would be. And then I would be in a position to meet with not just them but with any other entity.

Councilman Kenney

I remember a couple years ago there were some dollars that were diverted from the Recreation Department, and I believe some contractual 221 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 monies from DHS that went to this non-profit agency called Safe and Sound. Were there recreation dollars diverted from the department to Safe and Sound and their activities?

Mr. Richard

I want to say they were, but I don't know the exact denomination. Maybe Ellen Striker might be able to help me.

Councilman Kenney

If she's available and knows it. If not, I'd appreciate you finding out whether it happened and what the amount is, and whether it's a continuing annual thing.

Mr. Richard

Okay. Thank you.

Ms. Striker

Good afternoon. This is Ellen Striker, Deputy Managing Director. In the budget for the Recreation Department over the last few years, there's been 147,000 that was in Recreation's budget but being used for after-school programs through Safe and Sound.

Councilman Kenney

Is that annually? 222 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Ms. Striker

That was annual. And that was based on an approval process that took place at the beginning of the Administration. Those dollars are no longer being used. They were not used in 2003, I believe, and they were not used this year. So, they were being -- They were returned to the Recreation Department because there were other grant funds available to cover those programs.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you. Just one quick ending question. Commissioner, do you anticipate any impact on the annual Philadelphia Mummers Parade, the Recreation Department's operation of it, prize money and the like?

Mr. Richard

The Mummers Parade is being anticipated with the ten percent cut in the prize money, approximately $39,500, a little shy of $40,000, sir.

Councilman Kenney

And how about on operations on personnel?

Mr. Richard

None on operating, 223 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Your Honor.

Councilman Kenney

I'll go next round. Thank you.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Recreation Department Commissioner and your staff.

Mr. Richard

Good afternoon.

Councilwoman Brown

It's clear to me, in trying to get my arms around this budget, that your department represents the department with the most visible service reductions. My last... I'm not a budget person, but I am paying attention to the numbers, is that you are taking the steepest budget cut of about 20 percent. And as you look to closing rec centers, you've answered in part President Verna's question around the methodology you used to get to where you are, in terms of 224 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the recommended closings. And for clarity I need to know... In gathering your information you said you did consult with staff. Elaborate on that for me. What does that mean? Did that include downtown staff, those who are on the front lines and around the City as well?

Mr. Richard

Deputy Commissioner Carapucci and myself, along with the City Planning Commission, the staffing out of the Managing Director's Office as well.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. Help me understand district managers in the configuration of the Recreation Department.

Mr. Carapucci

Phil Carapucci, Deputy Commissioner, Recreation Department. Underneath myself there's three program directors. And the City's divided up into three divisions of the Program Division, three subdivisions. Underneath that there's ten district managers.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Carapucci

They're the people 225 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 that really are working with the leaders day in and day out to get done what we have to do.

Councilwoman Brown

I see.

Mr. Carapucci

So they're the first line of management with the recreation leaders and with the advisory councils and community groups.

Councilwoman Brown

Is it appropriate to assume, then, that you would have to lean on them for information needed to arrive to where you got to, with regards to the center closings?

Mr. Carapucci

District managers we rely on for almost all of our -- many of our decisions. Put it like that. Many of our decisions, whether it's program or community usage, comes downtown through the district managers.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. Thank you. Let me follow up on Councilman Kenney's questions around ice rinks. I had similar questions around pools because the 226 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 axe seems to fall disproportionately on pools and rinks. So, share with us what your action plan is or strategic plan is to fill that void, in terms of service to kids.

Mr. Richard

Thank you for the question. Part of my testimony, Madam Councilwoman, was relative to making recommendations to the City to consider the installation and development of spray grounds which is similar and just like in nature of the brand new state of the art play equipment. So, wherever any recommendations that have been made to eliminate any pools, those are the recommendations that we made back to the City, realizing and understanding what public recreation means to the City, and also knowing that we still need to provide, if possible fiscally, some sort of recreational function for young people.

Council President Verna

227 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Councilwoman, can I take you back on this a minute, please?

Councilwoman Brown

Please.

Council President Verna

Commissioner, they're going to replace the pools with spray grounds. Is that what you said?

Mr. Richard

Yes. Spray grounds, spray park. Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

What will each cost? What will be the cost per each spray ground?

Mr. Richard

We can start at approximately $75,000, Madam President.

Council President Verna

$75,000 a spray ground?

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

And are you going to be... And are you going to be replacing all 20 sites with spray grounds?

Mr. Richard

Those are the recommendations that we are making.

Council President Verna

So, what does that come to... What does that... 228 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 So, that amounts to $1.5 million for the...

Councilwoman Brown

Repeat what you said, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Is it budgeted?

Mr. Richard

No, ma'am, it's not budgeted.

Council President Verna

It's not budgeted, which means that we would just simply close the pools this year. And if, in fact, we go to spray grounds or spray pools or whatever they're called, that may not happen until our next budget, if it happens at all, because the five-year plan shows that there's a decrease in the recreation budget every single solitary year. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

So does that also mean that next year we're going to see more recreation centers closed, and the year after that a few more? I don't -- You're telling us that you're going to close 20 pools. You're 229 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 talking about the spray grounds. You tell us that they're costing $75,000 each. Don't tell us... They're not -- certainly not going to be installed by this year. I'm sorry, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Brown

That's okay. That's all right.

Council President Verna

I just had to...

Councilwoman Brown

Add some clarity.

Mr. Richard

Thank you.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Charlie.

Council President Verna

And I did not take your time. You're not being credited with it.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you very much. Program, summer camps, 40. How and what is the -- How are we going to fix that, knowing that all these children are going to be out of school during that eight-week period? 230 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Because I do know that there are discussions with the School District. You're coordinating with the School District to provide recreation activities on school grounds. Discuss that for us.

Mr. Richard

I appreciate that question as well. I am, too, concerned in -- myself along with the executive team, along with meeting with the School District and with the Managing Director. One of our number one goals is, as we go through this process and as definitive decisions are made, that we make sure that each individual child in each area that is possibly going to be affected has at least one but preferably two alternative sites for either public recreation, summer camps or after school. Some of -- And a lot of the recommendations would be that the parent has the capability to go another three blocks or seven or eight blocks up the street instead of using a little small C or D facility, to use the major A facility. 231 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 And if we do max capacity, that we are in a position to also show the parent where either a beacon school program is taking place and/or either a program of similar nature is being offered by the School District as well. So those are the considerations. We're not just saying take out the small C or D facility that is there. We're also in a position to state that this facility is in this proximity where the child will still be able to receive the services. It just may not be two blocks. This time it may be eight blocks or maybe up to a mile.

Councilwoman Brown

And understanding that this entire process of recommended school -- recommended school -- recommended center closings and pool closings is what I would call a work in progress. How far down the line are you with the School District, with them being an active, full partner around this dilemma 232 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 that we're facing?

Mr. Richard

I have a listing that I just received recently in my possession, and it shows all of the programming from K all the way through 12, along with the beacon schools. And I appreciate your term of work in. Progress. As soon as something definitive is done, then we'll be able to do the final touches, along with the input and the leadership from the community groups as well.

Councilwoman Brown

Is it reasonable to expect that we could see a draft document, through Madam President, before the end of this budget cycle, budget process?

Mr. Richard

I can do that, yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Brown

So, parents who are looking for safe havens for their children during the summer months can have some assurance that this summer, if rec centers close, their children will have 233 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 some place, a safe, stimulating structured program for them to go to?

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. That's all for now, Madam President. While Madam President is engaged... You may want to go to the... I have a couple additional questions, but I don't want to violate the rules.

Council President Verna

Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Would you explain to me exactly what you mean when you say you're reducing? When you say 40 encampments, do you mean 40 sessions at Camp William Penn during the summer? What do you mean by that? Could you explain that again? And I apologize if I missed it and you clarified that. What exactly do you mean?

Mr. Richard

40 individual camp sites, day camps.

Councilman Rizzo

Day camp. Nothing to do with Camp William Penn? 234 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

No. No, Your Honor.

Councilman Rizzo

Nothing to do with Camp William Penn.

Mr. Richard

No, sir.

Councilman Rizzo

Okay. Do you know the value of Camp William Penn? Has it ever been assessed, the value, the actual value of the facility?

Mr. Richard

Not to my knowledge, sir.

Councilman Rizzo

Be nice to know what it's worth. Maybe you could figure that out for us.

Mr. Richard

Sure. I'll have it appraised.

Councilman Rizzo

Again, if this has been asked, I apologize. We used the proceeds for the sale of the recreation facilities to fund community recreation programs. What exactly are you going to do with the proceeds, if in fact something does go to sale?

Mr. Richard

If something does go to sale, my recommendation is that we do 235 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 whatever we can to get that money back to the prospective Councilmanic District Council person, to use to reinvest in the enhancements of the preexisting facilities that will remain. So, I would see hopefully, but that's my recommendation.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, with your administration's initiative, the Mayor's Transportation Initiative, if we start demolishing things, are there any of these facilities in the targeted area that closing or demolishing may be premature? It seems like the Administration has confidence that they're going to bring the neighborhoods back. And then in the same breath, you're going to take facilities away that may be needed to support the reverse of these communities. So don't you think it's kind of like a fine line before you bring the wrecking ball? You're really -- You're kind of undermining the Mayor's Transformation Initiative by saying we don't need these facilities? 236 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

I appreciate that question. The majority of the facilities that are being recommended are facilities that are no bigger than the size of a conference room or maybe two times. Some of them might be three times the size. Might be a double car, carriage house, a garage. And within a mile radius or less we have a 20,000 full amenity functioning rec facility. So, while I appreciate a lot of the value that some of the smaller facilities do add, and that they may have been needed when the population... I still also have to take into consideration the percent of utilization of a full-size function and full-amenity rec center, and also the limited resources of the City. And I also have to make a business recommendation to this Council on behalf of the total City as well.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Commissioner. 237 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Good afternoon, Commissioner.

Mr. Richard

Good afternoon, Mr. Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Commissioner, I'd like to better understand your response to Councilwoman Reynolds Brown, her last question which I didn't hear all of the question. But I thought it was that you can ensure that this summer parents would have a structured program and activities where they could take their children. And I thought your response was yes; is that correct?

Mr. Richard

Yes. My response is yes. That is one of our main number one concerns. One of my other number one concerns, too, if I may add, sir, is to 238 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 make sure that I maintain employment of all my employees on the payroll. But, yes, I --

Councilman Nutter

I understand that.

Mr. Richard

I am responsible to make sure that we keep the services in place for the parents for these young children.

Councilman Nutter

I understand that. What I'm having difficulty with is the proposal to close either... I mean, you've laid out this list of 5 ice rinks, 20 swimming pools, 40 summer camps, 40 rec centers. When would you be proposing to do that?

Mr. Richard

In our conversations we're looking at this to possibly be a two-year period, if it is approved in how far it goes. So, if you're asking me directly right now, my answer is a two-year process.

Councilman Nutter

I understand. When's it start? 239 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

I believe some of the process has begun already.

Councilman Nutter

What do you mean by that?

Mr. Richard

We were able to identify a facility called Maguire on Mascher and Lehigh that had one of those C or D buildings that was there.

Councilman Nutter

Had one of those what?

Mr. Richard

A C or D type small facility.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Right.

Mr. Richard

And we were able, in conjunction of working with NTI, to have that building demolished. And right now because of the leadership of the Councilperson as well and the community, the young people have just completed the design of brand new lighting and play equipment that will be installed on that particular facility. And it's been adopted by the... What's the name of... The Lighthouse 240 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Group, which is directly across the street. We've also identified as well, Your Honor --

Councilman Nutter

Hold on for a second. Now... And that's certainly outside my area. But if this is the concept, then I guess maybe it would be coming, you know, to a neighborhood near me soon, so let me understand this. I'm familiar with the Lighthouse. So, are you saying that they have adopted the center. Now, what does that mean? Are they... Are they actually going to get ownership of the facility? Do they have a lease agreement with us? Is there a license? What is the nature of this adoption?

Mr. Richard

They've adopted it through volunteers with their non-profit.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Richard

Through the leadership of the Councilperson appropriating the monies as well, to get rid of the building 241 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 that had been sitting there... How many years?

Councilman Nutter

Right. And are there any ongoing capital responsibilities under this arrangement?

Mr. Williams

Good afternoon, Councilman. My name is Carlton Williams, Deputy Commissioner for the Department of Recreation. There is an investment that has been made with play equipment at the site. After the demolition of the Maguire building, which sat dormant for approximately seven years -- it was vandalized, used as a haven for drugs and other bad activities.

Councilman Nutter

I got all that.

Mr. Williams

We decided to remove the buildings and make it a passive park where the Lighthouse would then be responsible. There is talk of a lease agreement that we would still maintain the grounds of the facility. There would not be a rec 242 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 leader there or a person on site, and they would provide us some supplemental assistance in regard to this.

Councilman Nutter

Has there been a rec leader there before you demolished the building?

Mr. Carapucci

Councilman, there hasn't been a rec leader there in years. 10

Councilman Nutter

All right. So, 11 I mean... I appreciate the information, 12 but that example does not necessarily seem 13 to represent the bulk of what you're 14 proposing. 15 But most of the centers -- Has the list -- Wasn't there a discussion earlier -- Do you have a list, do I understand? Is there a full list now? In order to make any savings, I have to believe that many of the centers that you're talking about would have to have staff. I mean, the fundamental way that the government would save money by closing the center is by the personnel costs; is that right? 243 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

That is true, sir.

Councilman Nutter

So that Maguire location is not necessarily the norm or the standard that you're dealing with; is that correct?

Mr. Richard

Right. Yes, sir. That is correct, too.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. So, at the facilities that are presently up and running, have people providing service, and if you're saying that the process is already started, what centers or pools do you anticipate would be closed during the course of the summer or at the start of this fiscal year or for the standard recreation season?

Mr. Richard

I don't have a definitive answer to what facilities will be closed this summer as of yet. We have recommendations. When that time does come and those definitive answers are all done, between the Council, the Administration, myself, the community group or whatever, then I'll 244 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 be able to know exactly. When I stated the term -- And I appreciate your comments that, yes, the savings are with -- the facilities that are with the staff, and I'll get to that as well. That is one phase of how we're looking at eliminating the blight, along with having to go back and continue to try and eliminate sharp dumping or breaking into a facility that is dormant or being graffitied. Some of the other pieces are the lease with the individual or individual groups where they would actually -- And part of our stipulations would be in that lease contract, sir, is that they would have to maintain that facility for public access. And as an example, if a facility is an A facility that has all the amenities, or B facility and a pool, the City is proposing to maintain the operation of that pool, to keep it open for the children, in 245 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 order for us to meet the criteria as well, as far as proximity, the age, the distance as well. The savings does come in not opening summer camps, not having to hire summer employees which would be temporary jobs. Also, the savings would come in not having to open up X amount of swimming pools. And the savings would come from the chlorine costs, and also the costs of the aquatic staff of those facilities as well. And some of those savings would come in full-time permanent jobs as well.

Councilman Nutter

Well, Madam President, I'm going to beg your indulgence. I guess two things: One, how is it possible to say that under a proposal to close 5 ice rinks, swimming pools, 40 20 summer camps, and 40 rec centers, that there would be no impact on service -- (Applause.)

Councilman Nutter

-- to the people who are going to these facilities? That's one. 246 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 And I guess second, has there been any analysis of any other social costs that may result as a consequence of taking these particular actions from either how many children are possibly going to get in trouble, or get hurt, or have any other kinds of problems? I mean -- I mean, it is beyond my capacity to understand that you could say that there would be no diminution in service. Now, I understand that you're -- I mean, you have a case that you have to try to make, and you're going to do the best that you can. But it would seem quite impossible to do that and maintain that level of service with that much fewer facilities. And I guess the last thing I want to say on this point -- And I know I'll have an opportunity to come back. Only in Philadelphia. Only in Philadelphia could there be a thought that having more rec centers or pools than virtually any other 247 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 city in the United States of America is a bad thing. (Applause.)

Councilman Nutter

I mean, you know, we're number one in so many wrong categories. And if we want to have a separate discussion about how many we'd have, and where they're located, the first -- I mean, I'll grant you the first item is an analysis of how many As or B centers are within a mile of another. This second document I would not consider, from my sense of things, a facilities analysis. It's kind of a recitation of what the rest of the world looks like. It has nothing to do with the particulars of the facility. But I just believe that in other cities, you know, it would be a part of their marketing and promotion for their town that they had more facilities than any other city in The United States of America. It would be a positive thing. They would 248 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 use to it attract people. They would use it to encourage people to stay in the town. And only in this place where we have some of the most bizarre thinking is it a negative. Now, I understand the financial side of it. And we can have a financial discussion. But it's just been an amazing day between the Fairmount Park, the Art Museum, and Recreation. All very positive aspects. I mean, you can throw in the libraries. I mean, I call your guys... I mean, you're like in the happy business. There's nothing to be upset about. There should never really be a bad day in any at least of those four operating departments. You engage with all kinds of members of the public: Young, old, everything in between. You give people a positive experience. And, I mean, it's just been a day of department after department, of things that we're taking away from people and diminishing this great place called 249 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Philadelphia. And I don't really understand why it's a bad thing. There may be a center or two here or there. Maybe we haven't taken care of it. There's a building that's in bad shape. I mean, we deal with those things on a regular basis. But this aggressive targeted: We will take away art and culture, we'll take away recreation, we'll take away our own museums from people. For what? What is the goal? What is the purpose? What is it that we're trying to accomplish? (Applause.)

Councilman Nutter

So, I'm way over my time. I've got many other questions to ask. But I just -- I wish that we would stop promoting the fact that because we have more than any other City in the country, it's a bad thing. It's not a bad thing. It's actually a good thing. We have some places that we need to take a better look at, make a 250 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 couple adjustments here or there. You know, that's fine. We should be doing that for all facilities, but not just for the Recreation Department. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll come back. (Applause.)

Mr. Richard

Thank you, Mr. Councilman.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.

Councilman Cohen

Thank you, Madam President. I've been trying to figure out the same kind of thing that Councilman Nutter raised. We are talking about recreation centers and pools as if they were bad things to have, rather than good things. I've been in Council a long time, and I never once remember -- long before our population began dropping -- I never once remember there being too many pools or too many recreation centers. 251 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 At all times there's been a shortage. We've never had enough for our people in Philadelphia. Yet here we're suddenly being told that we're overstocked with good things. Does this come from the Administration that's neighborhood minded, that's trying to help neighborhoods? (Applause.)

Councilman Cohen

I don't understand, any more than Councilman Nutter understands, where this is coming from or why. Where is the money going to go to? Why do you feel that there's too many recreation centers and too many pools?

Mr. Richard

What question do you want... Where is the money going to?

Councilman Cohen

Yes.

Mr. Richard

My understanding, the money is going back into the General Fund. Specifically, I don't -- I can't answer. Maybe Mr. Dubow can. I can talk about the national medium 252 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 and the per capita facilities and pools that we have relative to other cities as well.

Councilman Cohen

But what does that prove? Suppose other cities are not interested in recreation? Does that mean we have to lose our interest in recreation?

Mr. Richard

No, sir.

Councilman Cohen

When you came as Commissioner, one of the outstanding things mentioned about you was that you were a firm believer in recreation facilities, and that you were one of the country's leaders in promoting the development of recreation centers and pools. Yet you're in a position here where apparently you're being compelled to follow a policy of curtailment, rather than expansion. It's my belief that what we need in Philadelphia today are more recreation centers, more equipment in recreation centers, more staffing of recreation centers, and more pools, not less in any 253 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 area. (Applause.)

Councilman Cohen

And the fact that they're not being utilized is probably because of deficiency in the programs. Because I know of no recreation center anywhere where it has an adequate program that attracts people that is being unused. But if you have a shortage of staff, a shortage of equipment, or it's not functioning today, or there's no staff member available on this occasion, then of course you're going to lose business, and people aren't going to come because it isn't worth their time. But I know of nowhere in Philadelphia where any people believe there is an over staffing of recreation centers and pools. Do you? Do the people like you complain saying, you know, we're overstaffed?

Councilman Cohen

I mean, I've 254 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 never heard that in 35 years almost in City Council. I've never once had a complaint from anybody about too much staffing. I've had thousands of complaints about under staffing and about needs, but never about over capacity of services or programs.

Mr. Richard

Right. Mr. Councilman, I believe you're right on point. And I appreciate everything that you're presenting. I also want to go on record to talk about my aggressiveness as a professional in being responsible. The department is a key, as Mr. Nutter just talked about. We're part of the personality of this City, the Rec Department, the library system, and everything else. Some of the recommendations that I have made already and that I will continue to make is that we need to tear down some old facilities, but we also need to replace as well. Those are some of the things 255 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 that, as I said, are ongoing and in the works. We have had some facilities that are upwards of 50, 60, 70, 80 years old. We have some areas of the City where we may have two or three small C or D facilities where I am making a recommendation that we take out those two or three little piece of shack buildings that we have and we build another Bellfield or we build another Simons to meet today's needs and today's standards, and build it at today's architecture for today's services of the children. So, I'm not here advocating that we just tear it down. I'm also going to be in a position to say -- and that's why I'm saying it -- we also need to look at the types of structures. And I said that in the criterias. But there are recommendations that I want, to make that we need to rebuild or demolish and put new in different spots as well, where there are either not enough or 256 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 there's a wrong type that's too old. But thank you for your comments and your leadership.

Councilman Cohen

Well, let me ask you this, sir: If it were not for the recommendation or the requirements that as a Commissioner you have to live within a certain budget, would you be making these recommendations today?

Mr. Richard

Yes, sir. On some of them, yes.

Councilman Cohen

Well, how many of them?

Mr. Richard

I'd have to look back at the list.

Councilman Cohen

Well, could you do that and let us know?

Mr. Richard

Yes, sir.

Councilman Cohen

How many of these would be cut? Because what your answer was was an answer that I think not only Councilman Nutter but all of us would accept. We understand that there's a need for 257 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 replacement. And that's good.

Mr. Richard

Yes, sir.

Councilman Cohen

Because things ought to be continually remodernized. But I cannot believe that you really think that there's too much recreational facilities available for the children of Philadelphia. Because I am convinced as of now, right this moment, that we have an inadequate amount, not only as to new facilities, but any kind of facilities, new -- counting the old, we still have not enough. And I think that this is being driven not by your independent judgment as the Recreation Commissioner, but by the needs of the City budget, as interpreted by whoever is in charge of City budget. (Applause.)

Councilman Cohen

That's to me the plain thing. It would seem to me that... How much money is going to be saved by all of this?

Council President Verna

$4 258 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 million.

Councilman Cohen

What's that?

Mr. Richard

$4 million.

Councilman Cohen

And what percentage of your budget is that?

Mr. Richard

About 14, I want to say. I might be off a few.

Councilman Cohen

percent? 10

Mr. Richard

Hang on one minute. 11 We'll count the... 12

Council President Verna

13 Commissioner, is that list on its way? 14

Mr. Richard

Yeah. We have it.

Council President Verna

Do you mind sharing it with us?

Councilman Cohen

Seems to me clearly that when the newspapers talk of the Administration moving away from the neighborhood program, which I never thought they really got into. They were just at the beginning phases of maybe beginning to have a neighborhood program. And there's -- And it's now said the Administration is moving away from it. 259 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 It seems to me they're moving away from it with a vengeance, because they're going to have far less of neighborhood facilities available to the people of Philadelphia than we've had in many a year. And I don't call that progress. I call that stepping backward mighty fast and facing a terrible fate in the future. I don't understand this at all. Let me ask you one technical question from this list. What does it mean when your lists say location, and then put in parenthesis, pool? Does it mean that everything including the pool if the place is going to disappear or does it mean that only the pool is going to disappear if the recommendation is adopted?

Mr. Richard

I'd have to see that.

Councilman Cohen

Madam President, is this prepared by our Council?

Council President Verna

Councilman, I understand that the Commissioner is going to be submitting to 260 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 us in just minutes what the recommendations for closures are. There are pools that they're 5 talking about closing. And we'd like to 6 know the location of the pools, as well as 7 the skating rinks, the summer camps, and 8 also the 40 recreation centers that they're 9 talking about closing. 10

Councilman Cohen

Wasn't there one 11 time, Madam President, about -- 12

Council President Verna

Excuse me. 13 How many swimming pools do we have? 14

Mr. Richard

Total 87. It's 78 or 15 79 outdoor, I believe. 16

Council President Verna

We have 17 87? 18

Mr. Carapucci

Excuse me, Council 19 President. It's 79 outdoor and 7 indoor. 20 So we have 86. Summertime we operate 85.

Council President Verna

Wow. We have indoor pools. We don't have any in South Philadelphia, do we? (Laughter and applause.)

Mr. Richard

Those are some of the 261 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 recommendations that we would like to make as well. Thank you.

Council President Verna

You're going to promise us an indoor swimming pool? Is that the recommendation that you're making?

Mr. Richard

Those are recommendations relative to meeting new standards and service levels that we can do with the children in the school and the neighborhoods.

Council President Verna

Mm-hmm.

Councilman Cohen

For each Councilmanic District, for example, you list the Morris Estate, the last one of five recreation centers listed, and you have in parenthesis just in that one pool. You don't have in parenthesis -- Is that the only pool in the Eighth Councilmanic District being affected?

Mr. Richard

Hang on a minute, sir, please.

Mr. Carapucci

Morris Estate is not on the list. 262 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilman Cohen

I didn't get that.

Mr. Carapucci

Morris Estate, sir, is not on any list. It's not, as far as closure. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: On the Councilman's list it shows Morris Estate pool in parenthesis, on the list of facility cuts.

Mr. Carapucci

Councilman, that was originally proposed, but it's been amended. It's not on the list. It's not.

Councilman Cohen

Well, tell me how a pool gets on the list.

Mr. Carapucci

Our department --

Councilman Cohen

The fact of how many people come?

Mr. Carapucci

Well, a lot of it is driven by budgetary responsibility, and usage, proximity to other pools. And in Morris Estate, after we looked at it better with the help of our aquatics office, we realized that Morris Estate is very well used. That's why it 263 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 was taken off. It's not on the list to be closed, sir.

Councilman Cohen

My recommendation is that something else that the Mayor also submits to Council, all of his choice of other cuts that are also going to be considered by him, because I don't think this cut has any chance of living through Council. I can't see how we can possibly approve this severe cut -- (Applause.)

Councilman Cohen

-- in the quality of life for Philadelphians.

Mr. Richard

If I may say, Your honor, please excuse us. We just finished. We had to put some more stuff and look at it. I'd say if I can get an hour, I can have it totally professionally typed. But they're going in the back right now and making a copy. And a lot of the stuff is handwritten. But it's not a problem for us to get that stuff to you. And we 264 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 appreciate it. Yes. We need to know.

Council President Verna

Councilman, a list is presently being prepared which will be circulated before the conclusion of the hearing.

Councilman Cohen

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Mm-hmm. Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam President. And good afternoon.

Mr. Richard

Good afternoon, sir. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm going to go down a slightly different path than my colleagues. I certainly respect what they're talking about and their comments. But I want to talk about the what-ifs. You and I, Commissioner, along with your Deputy Commissioner Carapucci and the Managing Director, have had some discussions about the proposed pool and recreation center facilities in my District, and those that are on the agenda to be as proposed to be closed or some 265 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 alternative uses. I have also had this conversation about engaging with the Mayor during the budget briefings a month or so ago. Where are we? Has any further discussion taken place, in regards to my suggestion that if -- And I'm speaking about the first Councilmanic District. I'm certainly not speaking about the other nine Districts. If there's an agreement between myself and your department, Managing Director, and the Administration on certain facilities that we would agree be closed -- and there's one pool in particular which I had requested to be closed a few years ago at the request of the community, and we agree that maybe that should stay closed, and maybe be sold. And I had put on the table a suggestion to the Mayor, to yourself, and the Managing Director. Those savings that the department -- the City will benefit by as a result of the closure and the sale of 266 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 it, what I asked was: Is there any way in which a portion -- I understand you're not going to get all that money back into my District -- but a portion of that money get reinvested into centers or pools that have a high degree of use that are in very populated neighborhoods where there really is not much else, in terms of public recreation for them, about getting some of that money and reinvest it into those type of facilities? Has there been any further discussion on that? Is that something that's still being considered? I just need to know because, you know, I had a meeting last week with some residents concerning the Sacks Recreation Center. And as I said to you, there were a number of issues there which I thought I will be confronted with concerning the closure of that pool, although they were very reasonable and were listening to what I had proposed or discuss at least. And maybe in lieu of the pool we do 267 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the water park. I'm not sure yet, but they were at least cooperative and listening. But that will take money. And I need to know: If those agreements are made, are we prepared, is the Administration, your department prepared to put something on the table that I can take back to my constituents?

Mr. Richard

On speaking on behalf of the department, I said that earlier today, sir, that I believe we should be given opportunity to reinvest any properties or any savings back to the facilities in your prospective Districts. Maybe Mr. Dubow might want to make a comment relative to if there's anything definitive as well. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, for me, what I need, and I think I may have the largest number of rec centers of all the ten Councilmanic Districts. I may be off a little bit. I know I'm in the top three for certain, not counting the Fairmount Park 268 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 facilities which I think I have in my District, which I think is probably almost double what most Councilmanic Districts have. So, I have a very daunting task ahead of me when I look at all these things that were being asked, to at least be reasonable about, and talk to you and the other department heads about, to try to figure out how we make this work, and be as least painful for everyone as possible. So, again, how do we arrange that? Is there... Wecaco. I'm going to throw that on the table because maybe Mr. Dubow can answer that. We've talked about Wecaco, which is in Queen Village. And they've been looking for the possibility of using the facility at Wecaco for their community organization headquarters, which is not a bad idea. I mean, it's something they would like. But there's always that question is, who will maintain it, where does the liability begin and end on insurance for 269 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the facility, if they take responsibility for it in the form of a lease. It's a non-profit group. It's not a for-profit organization. I think those are the kinds of things that would be very helpful, not only to me but to the rest of Council, that we really get into the meat of this whole conversation about the mechanics of how this all will take place and come about. I mean, for me it's more palatable if I know that if the Fonteleone pool is sold, and that saves us over five years whatever the cost of maintaining it, whatever the average cost of personnel there, and the sale would generate, how do I get some of that money back to put it at Palumbo? Which is a few blocks away or at Sacks which is a few blocks south, or one of those facilities that we can incorporate some of these activities into.

Mr. Dubow

I think we agree that it would definitely make sense, to the extent that properties are sold, and we get 270 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 revenues out of that, that we plow those back into the same Districts. So, that makes sense. On the savings side, to the extent that had those savings aren't already incorporated in the budget, then it would also make sense to use that in the Districts. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Which leads me to the segue into my next question where there's a proposal to cut $800,000 from the Philadelphia Activity Fund grant which translates into $80,000 per Councilmanic District. In the scheme of things that doesn't sound like a lot, but we just got the applications in. We're going to start looking at where that money... We're like Moses as Council members. We got to figure out $400,000 was the request. How do we get $180,000 divided equally or somewhat equally? If we are going to engage in this dialogue, where we will give a... or lease 271 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 a facility to a non-profit, and they are going to incur a certain amount of responsibility, we are relieving ourselves of some of that financial responsibility. Wouldn't it make sense to keep to at least the level of the Activity Fund as to where it is today? Because their costs may go up. So, there's got to be a tradeoff here. If they're going to take some of that responsibility and burden away from us, we can't do the both things at the same time, also take the money away while we're asking them to do some of the responsibility -- take that other financial responsibility on. How do we get to that point? And I think that's what we really should be spending some time on. I don't mean that to be disrespectful. I just -- We got to figure this out. June 17th is around the corner.

Mr. Richard

I can respond a little bit, and maybe Rob may want to chime in on 272 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 it, the City's total overall fiscal stability. My number one priority to my department -- and I'm not an eye on me -- but is to maintain the employment of my staff. And if there are indirect or non-core service issues that I can address to help keep this City in the black and to maintain employment for every full-time permanent or every part-time permanent that I have on the payroll, that is the process and the decision making that I have taken upon myself, along with my executive team. People need their employment, their jobs. And we understand the position relative to the Activities Fund, the ice skating rinks, and everything else. But I have to take a look at the global picture. But my number one priority is to maintain employment for my staff. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I know my time is up. I appreciate your answer. But again, I just think that we really need to 273 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 start putting down on paper some of the possibilities, how the mechanics of some of these things that you and I have been discussing, and how it may affect the other District Council people because I'm not sure if they're familiar with this conversation that we've been having, and the possibility of recycling some of that money back into the Districts.

Mr. Richard

Yeah. I will call your office, and I will bring the solicitor -- one of the solicitors in the risk management as well. We had a big meeting with all of them relative to your questions last Thursday. Right now the position is, they are asking the possible entities to carry liability. But we haven't got into the final definitive stuff. So, I appreciate that. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Which, again, that liability could be extremely expensive. But we're saving money because as of right now we're self-insured, so 274 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 anyone who's injured, vandalism, whatever occurs there, the taxpayers are paying. So, again, that's one of the -- you know, the $80,000 spread across... I don't know... 40 or 50 different community groups doesn't really add up to much in my District.

Mr. Richard

Right. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But I may want to bump up Wecaco or Queen Village, as an example, if they're going to have to take on that liability cost. (Applause.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So that, you know, they're not getting a double wham. They're getting banged on both sides. We got to really get down to the meat and potatoes on this one quickly.

Mr. Richard

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Okay. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you, Madam President. 275 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 There's some handwritten... There's some handwritten information on the back of this. What is this? Do you know?

Council President Verna

Can we have an explanation of that last --

Councilwoman Miller

Right.

Council President Verna

-- sheet of paper, please, that's handwritten?

Councilwoman Miller

Council President, it might be good if they explain this because every page is...

Council President Verna

Now that we have the list.

Mr. Carapucci

Okay. I'll try to explain this the best I can. First, you see the list that was done here was a list that was made up about a month ago. Then as things progressed and we had to come up with the scenario of how we would operate if we did have to live within a certain budget, we had to add more facilities to match the loss of staff and to come up with the appropriate number of 276 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 savings to equal a possible budget cut. So yesterday these other facilities were added onto the list. You could see they were handwritten because this was done late yesterday afternoon. And we looked at mainly the smallest facilities, what we call D facility and some D facilities. They're the smallest facilities. And that's basically how this additional list came up.

Councilwoman Miller

You mean the last page is additional?

Mr. Carapucci

It's a total of... I think it's 38 facilities, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Miller

Council President, I'm going to yield to Tasco. She has to go to a meeting.

Council President Verna

Certainly. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

I was listening. I was at a meeting upstairs, and I was trying to hear part of the testimony about how you came to determine the closing of these facilities. 277 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 You know, one of the areas of my City that just continues to get shafted with very little City resources or City services is the Logan area. And I'm appalled to see that you have Barrett Recreation Facility on here, when Barrett is the only facility for miles around. There's no other place that they can go. And there's some young people who are working out of Olney High School called the City Year Program. And they have set up this whole program with the young people in the neighborhood to work on Barrett. And I just have a real serious problem with closing that facility. And I'd say the same thing with Fisher Park. Again, that park was under the Fairmount Park facility, so you might want to give it back to Fairmount Park, but not close it. Because those facilities serve -- The population in that area is growing. The community uses that park. The advisory 278 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 board is very active. And those two would be a serious disservice to those people. And I would underscore Barrett 1,000 times because there is no one... There is no facility over there in Barrett. The schools are overcrowded. There's nothing down in the Logan area. And you're going to close Barrett. That's an insult to those people over there. And I dare say if they knew it, they would be here. (Applause.)

Mr. Richard

Thank you.

Councilwoman Tasco

You know, because I just saw this -- And, you know, on the other list there were no other facilities in the 9th that were being closed, because all of those centers are viable usable centers and nothing that has been vacant or unused. They are all in use.

Mr. Dubow

Councilwoman, we're going through a process of meeting with 279 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Council members and going over facilities with them. To the extent, based on that review some of these facilities come off, then those facilities wouldn't close, we'd have to find savings somewhere else in the budget. But that's part of the process that we're going through, I think, with each of you now, each of the District Council members.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, until today I did not know that these centers were on the list. There were no centers in my District that were on the list, until just now we get the list and there are two centers on. And I do know that the Commissioner has been trying to meet with me, but you all just came up with this list. There was no need to meet to talk to me about any centers in my District because there were none on the initial list. So now I find out today there are 280 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 two on the list, and two that are in communities where you don't have recreation facilities, because I do not have the number of recreation facilities in the 9th that you may find in someone else's that have through the years got recreation centers because of whatever. We don't have that many. They are far apart. And they're utilized by the people in the community. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you, Madam President.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you.

Council President Verna

You're welcome.

Councilwoman Miller

Couple centers on this list that we just got a copy of today are actually in my District, and they're on the list. They're actually listed as being in Councilman Nutter's District. 281 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 And that's Pleasant Playground and also Wissahickon Playground. That's on . And Pleasant is on . I have a couple questions regarding the... Say, what facilities could be transferred, leased or sold. I have a couple questions pretty much around the term transferred or leased. What exactly does that mean? The interest, the publicity around recreation centers being leased or sold or transferred has been interesting to many people. And I've gotten calls in my office where we have some community based organizations that want to in a sense take over a center or some other people that want to take over a center. But I don't -- I cannot describe to them what that exactly means. So, if we're discussing transferring or leasing, et cetera, to someone other than the City of Philadelphia, then we need to have more information so we can have an intelligent discussion around if a community 282 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 development corporation wants to now take over a center, what exactly does that mean for them?

Mr. Richard

Number one, it means to in anywhere possible where we can maintain the services, part of those negotiations will be that that property is still public property, and we would want it to still have public access. That would be the requirements relative to a transfer or lease. If the property is sold, quite naturally, it becomes private property. We're asking in the transfer or lease that any entity or persons that would go into this agreement or consider it, that they would relinquish the operational and maintenance responsibility on the physical plant, being the building itself. If a particular facility that becomes a item or topic for discussion or negotiations and recommendations, we are asking that the City, if that pool is not listed because of its proximity or 283 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 condition to be considered for no longer use, that the City would maintain operational responsibility of that pool as well.

Councilwoman Miller

Well, of the building. Doesn't matter how much money we save on it. One of the things that's confusing is that to relinquish or transfer one of these buildings to someone else and you still maintain the responsibility to maintain the facility, then how does that save you money? I don't understand.

Mr. Richard

We would recoup the savings in the money with the full-time rec leader and the full-time maintenance personnel.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. So, it's just the personnel costs.

Mr. Richard

Yes. It would be the personnel costs, but it would also be... We would be asking the persons to pay the electric bill and/or the gas bill as well.

Council President Verna

284 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Commissioner, I don't mean to interrupt. How about the liability?

Mr. Richard

The liability... Right now from the first meeting that we had, the Solicitor's Office along with Risk Management would ask the interested parties to maintain liability for their entity. We would also -- The City would keep maintaining responsibility of the playground, the play equipment, the operational expenditures, the staffing of the pools, as well.

Council President Verna

I owe you two minutes.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you. Well, for example, one of the playgrounds on my list which you have on the top of the on Carapucci's list here, Wissahickon. Now, Wissahickon you have, I guess from 1974 to 2000, personnel costs I assume, $115,000. Is that personnel?

Mr. Carapucci

That's Wissahockon Neighbors. 285 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilwoman Miller

Right.

Mr. Carapucci

That's not in your District.

Councilwoman Miller

No; that is in my District.

Mr. Dubow

Those are the capital improvements, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Miller

Those are capital improvements?

Council President Verna

The figures that are on the extreme left?

Councilwoman Miller

Yes.

Council President Verna

Is that what we're referring to?

Councilwoman Miller

Yes.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Councilwoman Miller

In the first column it says Wissahickon Neighbor, 1974, 2000, 115.

Councilman Nutter

The address was wrong. That's not in your District.

Councilwoman Miller

It is in my District, unless they have a wrong address.

Mr. Carapucci

That's the wrong 286 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 address, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Miller

Oh. Okay. All right. So, the address is wrong, so that is in Nutter's District. Because I do have a Wissahickon on Pulaski Avenue in my District. All right. Okay. But in any event, I still want to talk about Wissahickon because on another list I've seen Wissahickon, and maybe it was that Wissahickon. But this particular playground is attached to a public housing development. And I know that the Recreation Department years ago had staff there. But they haven't had staff down there in years, correct?

Mr. Carapucci

Correct.

Councilwoman Miller

So... But this group runs a basketball league in the summer there. And I know right now, according to the people in the neighborhood, they believe the court needs to be redone so that they can run a 287 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 basketball league there this summer. And I know we've talked to people at recreation about this. We talked to Carlton. When I saw Wissahockon on the list, I'm like, what do we do with this? The City is saying, we want to not have responsibility for Wissahockon, even though I'll take that back, since the address was incorrect on your list, which really put it on my list. And that's the problem. There's just too many lists going around. And I would hope that this is an official list or we get a typed version of this because there's just been too many lists going around. I know what we've talked about in our meetings regarding the 8th District. And then when I see another list, I try to not really pay attention to the other list because I know what we've talked about in our meetings. And that's basically the official information that I'm going by. So in the meantime, what I did, in 288 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 any event, was to talk to PHA to ask them if they would take over Wissahickon Playground. And I met with Carl Green last week about other issues, and this one came up. So, at some point I guess we need to talk again. But I just want to be clear on when someone takes over, for example, even right now, who's going to do Wissahickon's courts so they can run... Because they have a very good basketball program in the summer. And so all of these lists kind of throw me off. One week I'm thinking I'm doing one thing. Another week I'm thinking I'm doing something else, even though I keep saying my official -- for me, my official information is what I receive from the Rec Department. So... But in the meantime, some of us are starting to move and talk to other people. You know that we've been in discussion with the church and with other people regarding one of the other 289 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 playgrounds on our list. And we have had churches and business people and all kinds of people call to say that they are interested. But we just have to help them understand what will be their financial responsibility, if they actually do want to lease or transfer, whatever, regarding these facilities. Because I think most people are just interested in keeping them open, and doing whatever they can because recreation is an important issue in this City. (Applause.)

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Miller

So, if we can get something that's really kind of definitive about what all that means.

Mr. Carapucci

The mixup where I think it came in at, Wissahickon was... A little place Wissahickon which was next to the housing project.

Councilwoman Miller

Right.

Mr. Carapucci

Was on the list. I put that on that list because we haven't 290 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 used it --

Councilwoman Miller

Right.

Mr. Carapucci

-- for over 5 years. I thought it would be something 6 that possibly, since it's next to the 7 housing project, they could take it over. 8 And that's when we spoke to you about 9 taking that. 10

Councilwoman Miller

Right. 11

Mr. Carapucci

Wissahickon Neighbor 12 here has been added on because we were 13 looking at the smallest of the smallest 14 facilities that we have, to meet the 15 number. And then somewhere in the office 16 it got typed up with the wrong address, but 17 that's... 18

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. 19

Mr. Carapucci

Wissahickon is still 20 there.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay.

Mr. Carapucci

And Wissahickon Neighbor has been added on.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. All right. Thank you. 291 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Thank you, Madam President. I'm totally confused.

Council President Verna

Councilwoman, are you finished with your line of questioning?

Councilwoman Miller

Yes, Madam President. And also, on , though, they have Pleasant Playground. And that is in my District. You have Nutter's name there. And we have not talked about Pleasant.

Councilman Nutter

, down the bottom.

Councilwoman Miller

The third from the bottom.

Mr. Richard

That's been added on.

Councilwoman Miller

All right. Okay. Thank you. What do you mean "added on"?

Mr. Richard

We had to meet more numbers in the recommended budget cuts. So it was on; it wasn't. It's on.

Councilwoman Miller

We need to talk again, then. Okay. 292 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilwoman Miller

Right. We got to talk.

Council President Verna

Commissioner, now that we have the list, I'd like to ask you a question.

Mr. Richard

I'm glad you got it.

Council President Verna

And I'd like it to be your final answer.

Mr. Richard

I'm glad you got it, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Your final answer. Is this the list that we are all to go by? Will this be the last list that we're going to --

Mr. Richard

I'm going to get this typed up as soon as we get out of here. Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Don't worry about it being typed up. I understand there's the writing on the back. I'm asking, will this be the last list that we will see to be considered or are we going to see something else before 293 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the conclusion of these hearings?

Mr. Dubow

This is the last list you'll see.

Council President Verna

What was the name of that show? Is that your final answer. (Laughter.)

Mr. Dubow

Who Wants to be a Millionaire?

Council President Verna

Who Wants to be a Millionaire? We all do for the City, don't we?

Mr. Dubow

That's our final answer.

Council President Verna

Okay. Commissioner, let me ask you a couple questions, if I may, now that I have this list before me.

Councilman Nutter

Madam President.:

Council President Verna

Yes, sir.

Councilman Nutter

So, are we to understand that, putting that handwriting aside, that the typed list and some corrections that need to be made, now plus 294 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the last page, which is the handwritten list, this is now the complete list of all the proposed closure of rec facilities?

Mr. Richard

Yeah. Recreation facilities. And then there's another one for the pools. That's the rec facilities, correct.

Council President Verna

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Councilman Nutter

You messed up on your last answer there.

Council President Verna

Whoa. Time. (Laughter.)

Council President Verna

Okay. Let's take an example.

Councilman Nutter

One at a time. Sure. It was your question.

Council President Verna

Chew. On here you have spray pool. So, I would assume... Are you simply closing a pool? Talk to us. Talk to us.

Councilman Nutter

What...

Council President Verna

That's on 295 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the first page.

Councilman Nutter

Which center, Madam Chair?

Council President Verna

Chew Recreation. It says passive park, spray pool.

Councilman Nutter

Is this Sacks? Is this the first one?

Council President Verna

No. 11

Councilman Nutter

First page, number one. Is that where we're looking?

Council President Verna

It's the second from the bottom. Chew.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. So, we're on Chew.

Mr. Carapucci

If I could answer on Chew, it's both facility. And if you look on -- I have a page here with pools. That's also --

Council President Verna

One moment. Do we know from the list that has just been provided to us if the pools are also included?

Mr. Carapucci

Well, I have a list 296 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 here of pools which you could print up.

Councilman Nutter

So now we're getting ready to get a pool list?

Council President Verna

So now we're getting a pool list.

Councilman Nutter

And that's to be added to this list?

Council President Verna

And I assume that is being added to this list.

Councilman Nutter

Was there an original pools list?

Council President Verna

All right. We will run off enough copies to be circulated. You know, it's a surprise that we're having these hearings today.

Councilman Nutter

Right. It's just amazing. It's been on the schedule I think for a little bit. Can I ask a question, Madam Chair?

Council President Verna

Please go ahead because I have a couple questions I want to ask, too.

Councilman Nutter

Commissioner, 297 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 you are obviously operating under a tremendous amount of pressure.

Council President Verna

To say the least.

Councilman Nutter

To try to respond to these issues. We have... We had a first list. We had a second list. And now we're getting ready to get the third list. Your response to the questions from Capital which I have indicate the less-than-a-mile-away list. You have what you're referring to as an analysis of other recreation centers in comparable cities. And then the third question was, provide the process for involving the community in right-sizing decisions, which I don't see attached to the material that I received. That's one. Second, your testimony indicates that, again, this discussion about how many centers Philadelphia has, as compared to New York and Houston. Now, your testimony indicates that 298 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 New York City, with a population of million people, has 35 centers and 43 pools, which given the size of New York I thought was somewhat astounding. From information that we've held onto back from the late '90s, when we were looking at developing an inspection system for our recreation facilities and work I did with your predecessor, Commissioner DiBerardinas, I just want to read to you from a report. This is from New York City. It is a Park Inspection Program Manual, most recently revised and updated January 10, 2000. And what it says is... This is about their inspection program. The approximately 2400 ratable sites citywide include 937 playgrounds, 503 large park zones, 500 green streets -- I don't know what they are -- and 468 small parks under 6 acres in size. Now, what was your research in the context of telling us that there were only 299 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 35 centers in New York City, as compared to a document from the City of New York that indicates that they have 937 playgrounds? Can you tell me what the discrepancy is there?

Mr. Richard

I would have to get some help on answering that because I had help on... Yeah, I would have to get back to you on that because this document was done through conjunction with help through the MDOs office. But I'll get right back to you.

Councilman Nutter

Can you tell me who told you that there were 35 rec centers in New York City?

Mr. Richard

It's a couple years old, but I'll find out and get right back to you, sir.

Councilman Nutter

All right. Well, let me say this to you: Let me say two things... And I know the latest list is floating around. First, given our experience here today, the issues that have been raised, 300 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the questions that have been asked, and many not answered, as we go into the upcoming fiscal year which is 70 days away, it does not appear that the complete plan for what is being proposed is fully worked out. Would you agree?

Mr. Richard

That the complete plan is fully worked out?

Councilman Nutter

Yes.

Mr. Richard

No. I disagree with that. No, sir.

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry?

Mr. Richard

No. That it's not worked out. Yeah, I'm agreeing that it's not worked out. No, it's not.

Councilman Nutter

All right. I'm going to state the question again to make sure that it's clear on the record. We have 70 days before the --

Mr. Richard

I apologize.

Councilman Nutter

We have 70 days before the start of the fiscal year. We've got three lists here today. We've had some conversations with Council members. 301 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 We've got spray pool costs and expenditures; capital costs that are unaccounted for; the inability to, I think, clearly identify how all the services are going to be maintained. As we sit here today, the proposal to close 5 ice rinks, 20 swimming pools, 40 summer camps, and 40 recreation centers is not ready for implementation. Would you agree with that?

Mr. Richard

I would agree. It's not ready for implementation.

Councilman Nutter

And based on the discussion today, I think it is highly unlikely that it will be ready in 70 days. Would you agree with that?

Mr. Richard

They may be certain parts of it. But the total piece? No, it won't all be ready.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Richard

I'll agree with that.

Councilman Nutter

All right. You came to see me about ten days, two weeks ago, with a group of people, including the 302 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Managing Director, the Secretary of Education, members of your staff. You came to talk to me about three rec centers, which also includes a pool. None of them are on the list that have facilities within a mile of them. They're all relatively small. They serve a dedicated population. None of them are under utilized. Issues with the building, and a small pool. I have done the due diligence that I shared with you that I would, with regard to those facilities. One's in the 52nd Ward. One is in the 34th Ward. And I've talked to Congressman Brady about the center in his ward. And the other is in the 4th Ward. And I've talked to the ward leader, Miss Carol Ann Campbell, about hers. What I can share with you -- And I've talked to community people who have expressed concern about this now. What I can tell you at the moment is the response is: No, no, and hell no on those three 303 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 facilities. (Applause.)

Councilman Nutter

So, I think that there is a significant amount of work to be done, but that would be the position on those particular facilities. I haven't had a chance to look at the new list that just came out. And can you tell us -- And we'll work through this, I'm sure. But when will there be a complete, stapled-together, typed one list that everyone can operate from?

Mr. Richard

Get all the addresses correct, I'll have it in Madam President's office by lunchtime on Thursday morning, typed, address corrections, everything.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. I don't know whether I should refer 304 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 to this as the first list or second list. (Laughter.)

Council President Verna

I see here Finnegan. Finnegan. That's on the March 8th, 2004 list. I am assuming that in FY '04 we spent $173,000 to make some repairs to that building; is that correct?

Mr. Carapucci

That's what it says there, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Very well. And I noticed on the savings block it's vacant. Why would we close it if there are no savings? It is my understanding that we have a part-time employee there. I further understand that the Finnegan family has donated 400 or 500 books to Finnegan Library, and they have recently purchased outfits for the drill team. Why are we closing it if there's no 23 savings? And we have -- And it's -- And the building is truly being utilized?

Mr. Richard

It's just a 305 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 recommendation, where we're not closing it as of yet. And the other piece is, we have the deal and work with the community once we get to, I guess, the final, final list.

Council President Verna

I don't understand. You have to have some rationale to put it on the list.

Mr. Richard

The rationale is the facility, the size of the facility, and the location of where it is.

Council President Verna

Well, I know that it's located... What is it? Maybe seven blocks away from there. But with that being said, if we're closing a facility that's really being utilized, and there are no savings attached, why are we closing it or why do we even propose that it be closed?

Mr. Richard

Once again, some of the issues that we have to address was to look at smaller facilities in a relative size. The savings would be computated if that property would be turned over for sale 306 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 or maintained, and also to try to use --

Council President Verna

Oh, Commissioner, there are so many vacant structures in that area. Believe me, anybody that was interested in buying property really have their choice out in that area.

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

They don't have to wait for a recreation center to be closed to decide what they're going to buy the building.

Mr. Richard

Yes. And your comments are well taken. Thank you.

Council President Verna

I would also like to understand this... I guess it's the second form that we got, and then the third form. Mr. Carapucci, I guess you'll understand what I'm saying.

Mr. Carapucci

I think the second form here, Madam President, is the pools.

Council President Verna

Okay. But 307 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 on the second form or the third form?

Mr. Carapucci

The last one you received.

Council President Verna

The last one we got was the pools. The second one we received.

Mr. Carapucci

Well, that's this one here (Indicating).

Council President Verna

We have two on the second, and we also have two on the third. Does that mean that we're not going to have anything at all at Chew? Is that what's being proposed?

Mr. Carapucci

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

How about the ball fields? Are they going to be...

Mr. Carapucci

If the ball fields would stay, the building would come down, and it would be made into a passive park with a possible spray ground.

Council President Verna

What year?

Mr. Carapucci

That's...

Council President Verna

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Carapucci

We can't say for 308 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 sure.

Council President Verna

I know. Let me ask you something. We're going to do away with the building, we're going to maintain the fields, and we propose to put a spray pool. Do they have supervision with the spray pools? Because I will tell you: At Chew, for instance, that pool is utilized because we have Lincoln Day Care that's adjacent to it. So the children from Lincoln Day Care use the pool, children from the community use the pool. We close the pool and we put a spray pool with youngsters of that age. Wouldn't there need to be some supervision, Commissioner? Mr. Carapucci? Somebody?

Mr. Carapucci

I could answer that. What we'll do is, if this goes through with a spray ground, we would -- if we don't have present full-time permanent staff at the site, we would hire a seasonal person in the summertime. And their job would be 309 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 to oversee the spray ground, one person, instead of a full staff.

Council President Verna

So what would the savings be?

Mr. Carapucci

Well, we estimate... We estimate in a season at each pool it costs around $50,000 a pool. So, if we just hired one seasonal, maybe it would only cost us $5,000. So, it would be around a $45,000 saving.

Council President Verna

You know, I think we're all sitting here. We all know what the financial problems are with the City. And it's not that we want to be argumentative. We certainly don't want to fight each other. I just think that there's a right way and a wrong way of doing things. When this was being proposed, wouldn't it have been nice if we were able to go to the community? The community, I'm sure, would certainly want to cooperate in whatever way they could. Wouldn't it have been nice if we 310 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 were able to go to the community and say, this is what's being proposed. If you don't agree, then just meet us halfway until such time as we are financially able to go back to the services that we once had. I mean, don't you think it would have made everybody's life just a little bit easier? (Applause.)

Council President Verna

There's no 12 input from the community.

Mr. Richard

Yes. And that is part of the plan, Madam President, to get down to the final.

Council President Verna

Commissioner, that's part of the plan? When? I mean, we're supposed to be passing this budget by the end of May.

Mr. Dubow

And I think that's part of the process of going and talking to Council members, was part of that process of making sure we went to you first.

Council President Verna

Okay. They've come to me. Okay. 311 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 When are they going to the community? Am I going to go to the community by myself? Or does somebody from the Recreation Department whose idea it is to do this go along? And I would still like to see the report on the usage because I have no idea, and I'm sure that nobody else does. I know that some facilities are overused. Some of them, as you say, may be underused. But we have no way of knowing that. And we don't know how you reached your decision.

Mr. Richard

On the usage, those numbers were provided by my staff. And I'll make sure that we have a copy printed out for you and delivered to your office for distribution. The issues involving the community is not really an issue. It's about trying to get some definitive answers. So, I have no problem doing that. And to answer it, no, it is not your responsibility to go out, and we wouldn't 312 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 expect you to go out. And I appreciate that. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Well, we do represent the people in those particular areas.

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Yes, it is part of my responsibility. And I will take that on myself.

Mr. Richard

But not by yourself, yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

However, I did not come up with this list. And I don't know how we reached the point that we have. So, as I said, people in the community realize what's going on. They're not unreasonable, but I think they want to be made a part of the process. And I think it would be very nice if you did that. (Applause.)

Mr. Richard

Thank you.

Councilman Rizzo

Could I follow you on something he said? 313 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Council President Verna

Certainly.

Councilman Rizzo

Could you describe, Commissioner... These locations that have buildings, I assume they have restrooms facilities? What are we going to do if -- I mean, if we leave a ball field and we leave other activities at a particular site, what are supposed -- what are supposed -- describe now the restroom facilities that are at a facility and what you propose.

Mr. Richard

Some -- Some -- A lot of the facilities do have restroom facilities. Some of the facilities and a lot of the parks or ball fields we have now don't have. So, if we do take out those little small buildings, we're not proposing to have any restroom facilities. If there is a special event or something that is taking place, we'll do what we presently will do now. If we need to rent porta-potties or what have you for that particular weekend or that day.

Councilman Rizzo

So you're telling 314 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 me you have a number of rec facilities today that have no restroom facilities at all.

Mr. Richard

Well, we have -- Yes, we do have facilities. We have properties, we have passive parks or we have some ball fields that we have that are used, that just... they're there for passive recreation.

Councilman Rizzo

Maybe I'm not expressing myself clearly. Are we going to be getting -- These locations where you're going to be demolishing the locations, they presently have restroom facilities, correct? What are you going to do to replace those facilities that people are accustomed to and I think required to have a restroom? Are you going to have a porta-potty all summer, boy/girl at these locations?

Mr. Richard

No, sir. At those facilities we recommend no restroom facilities.

Councilman Rizzo

Are there some 315 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 kind of... Are there any laws that you have to abide by, like having attendants at certain types of facilities? In other words, has the Law Department looked into exactly what you propose, to make sure it's even legal to do what you want to do? In other words, are you required to have attendants at certain facilities or are you putting yourself into a situation where you may be liable not having some oversight or supervision?

Mr. Richard

Those are the things that are being spearheaded by the Planning Commission. Earlier in some of my response to the testimony was the recommendations of taking out maybe some of the small facilities or if they had two smaller ones, to build another larger one. So, yes, legally and also to make sure that we're meeting service need capacities, based on the per capita. Those are the things that are being considered. We haven't got to the part yet where 316 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the Law Department has actually yea or nayed anything.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Richard

Thank you, Mr. Councilman.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco. Oh, I'm sorry. Councilman Goode didn't have a chance.

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Commissioner.

Mr. Richard

Good afternoon, sir.

Councilman Goode

At some point I think you were going to delineate for us which of these facilities are just obsolete and which are being proposed for closing for financial reasons. Are you able to do that now or will that be done in the final document that we're expected to receive by Thursday morning?

Mr. Richard

I can talk about it. 317 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 But in order to have it all the way properly correct, I'd prefer to talk about it or give you the document. If I may, to answer more of your question, there's five lists that we looked at and that we put together. The first list we identified the properties that we would like the City to consider to just relinquish, to sell outright, put them up as surplus properties. Those properties are undeveloped. Those are properties that we have to continue to either cut grass or to continue to eliminate from becoming short dumps, and that they haven't been developed. Those are some of the properties that we've identified. The other list we thought about as we went through this process as the budget was being presented with the cuts, how can we take a look at approaching community groups, personal people or whatever, to see if we could maintain a facility but 318 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 transfer the fiscal responsible and still maintain. So that was an innovative way that we looked at would we be able to maintain some of them and still meet the City's fiscal piece. So that was another list. And it's the transfers last on lease list. List three and four; quite naturally there's one list that has just the recommended closures on it for the recreation facilities. The other list has just the pool listing for recommended closing. And the other list is by itself just an outright list naming the five ice skating rinks.

Councilman Goode

I let you go through all that, yet that wasn't my question.

Mr. Richard

I'm sorry.

Councilman Goode

My question was: If there was not a fiscal crisis at this point, you stated earlier that there are facilities that are just obsolete enough that you would close them anyway. 319 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 And you said that at a point at which there was a list that you could refer to, you would distinguish between which facilities on that list would have closed without regard to fiscal condition and which are being closed because of fiscal condition. So my question is: At this point, now that the list is in front of us, one, can you delineate which facilities would have been closed strictly because they're obsolete, and which are being considered for closing because of fiscal condition? And in the final list that you will provide to Council by Thursday morning that's retyped, in that document are you going to delineate which are being considered for closing because of fiscal condition and which are being closed because they're obsolete?

Mr. Richard

Could I give you all of that Thursday, please, sir?

Councilman Goode

I'd appreciate just a brief response now, and then 320 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 something in writing and typed and as a final document later.

Councilman Goode

But I'm just interested in looking at this list right now, which facilities you can identify that would have been closed without regard to fiscal condition.

Mr. Carapucci

Councilman, there's a few on one of these lists that we haven't operated in years, places like -- 13

Councilman Goode

It's two on one 14 of these lists? 15

Mr. Carapucci

Not on the list 16 here. One of the lists that's being 17 circulated -- 18

Councilman Goode

Could you take 19 this list of recreation facilities? 20

Mr. Carapucci

Even on that 40.

Councilman Goode

And can you go through this list and just tell me.

Mr. Carapucci

I can't go -- I wouldn't be able to give it to you right now. But there's a couple... 321 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilman Goode

I mean, do you know of any facility on this list period --

Mr. Carapucci

Five-day --

Councilman Goode

Excuse me. -- that would be -- that would be closed, without regard to our current fiscal condition, but because the facility is obsolete. And can you just go through the list and tell us how many on here you know would be closed anyway simply because they're obsolete?

Mr. Carapucci

Okay. Starting here on , Franklin Pool would not operate because it's totally demolished.

Councilman Goode

You're starting with pools or you're starting with recreation.

Mr. Carapucci

Well, it's a facility.

Councilman Goode

Okay.

Mr. Carapucci

The first list, Councilman --

Councilman Goode

Okay. 322 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Carapucci

-- that was given you today.

Councilman Goode

Okay.

Mr. Carapucci

If you take a look at the second one, you'll see Franklin. We have a facility there. I know the pool cannot operate because it's totally been demolished. It was ripped out, and we wouldn't be able to operate that. , Conshohocken wouldn't -- We haven't operated that building in about 13 years. The outside area, obviously, we're 14 not going to change anything, but that 15 facility itself, it's a closed building for 16 many years, even though it's a viable 17 outdoor area. 18

Councilman Goode

I'm familiar with 19 that site. 20

Mr. Carapucci

And I am too, sir.

Councilman Goode

Because it's closest to my home.

Mr. Carapucci

What else? . There's nothing on that page. And that's about it. 323 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilman Goode

Thank you. And Commissioner, so you're expecting in the final copy you give to us by Thursday morning that will be retyped, that you will also give us a final determination of which properties would have been closed because of being obsolete versus because of fiscal condition?

Mr. Richard

Yes, sir.

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Commissioner.

Mr. Richard

Thank you, Your honor.

Councilman Nutter

Commissioner, therein lies the problem. When Councilman Goode walks through this list, and we make the delineation and, you know, maybe something will change between now and Thursday when the list gets put together... I mean, this is the same conversation that we had in my office a couple weeks ago, that there is a distinction between closing a facility because we can't operate it versus creating if not manufacturing lists of facilities to 324 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 respond to a financial crisis. So, when you say that Conshohocken, which I knew the Councilman was going to be very familiar with, we haven't operated with a person, that facility, in over 7 years. 8 It has old play equipment which we 9 just authorized $150,000 of capital 10 investment for new play equipment. It's 11 got a basketball court that we rehabbed a 12 couple years ago. That doesn't need 13 anything from anybody. 14 It's got a small ball field that 15 people play on when they want to. And I 16 assume that the department cuts the grass. 17 The building, no great shakes; kind 18 of ugly; maybe should be torn down; maybe 19 shouldn't. The roof is a mess, pigeons 20 hanging out and all of that. 21 But it totally ignores the fact that 22 there's been a significant change in use at 23 that facility over the last 20 years, an 24 influx of new parents or relatively new 25 parents into the neighborhood, with small 325 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 kids which is why we're making the investment in the play equipment. They're not asking for a person, and there's nothing to do with the building. Now, we've had some discussion about whether it's going to be fixed up for possible storage of, you know, equipment or bats or balls or anything like that. But I mean, it is a perfect example of what do you get out of, quote unquote, closing a facility that's already closed. I mean, you can't kill something twice. So, are we going to just padlock it, and then tell the people, well, you got this rec center down the street from your house, but now no one can use it because somehow we're going to get some savings that will never materialize because there's no body there to take away to save any money? (Applause.) .

Councilman Nutter

The neighbors are prepared to keep doing what they're doing. They keep the place generally 326 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 clean. All they ask is that we come by and pick up the trash, take down the dead trees, fix the fence that's in poor shape, and the bricks that are a mess. And they'll pretty much be done with us. I mean, it -- it... What? What? MR CARAPUCCI: One of the ideas, Councilman, about adding Conshohocken and Wyndamere on the list just for the building was that we would be able to fix the outside, up make that even nicer. And we thought that would be the least painful, since it hasn't been operating in years. 16 And we were afraid that possibly 17 that building might become like some of the 18 other buildings where the kids might break 19 in. And it was the least painful for us to 20 recommend to you.

Councilman Nutter

I understand that, and I appreciate that. And I know you're, you know, looking out for my feelings. The issue here is... But that's 327 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 something that we would do anyway. There was money allocated to deal with that roof a long time ago. It never got done. There's nothing else to do there. So when these lists start being composed, and we start talking about, well, we're going to close this, we're going to sell that, we're going to lease that, and the other thing, all you do is generate a firestorm of feedback from people which, in the normal course of our regular business, if we were going to do something with the building, we would have done it. It wouldn't be on some closure list because you can't close a place twice. It makes no sense. This plan is not ready. We're not ready for prime time here. And we're going to take people through a whole host of anxieties and aggravations between now and the end of this fiscal year. The plan is not going to be ready in any scale to do anything. And this is a process that actually takes, I think, a 328 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 significant period of time. It's not going to happen in the pressure cooker environment of the next 70 days in a fiscal crisis. It's just not going to happen. This is something that should have started a year ago or would be started now to do something next year. Now, I understand why it didn't happen last year. I'm familiar with the calendar. I, you know, pay attention to some of the circumstances and situations around here, and why we talk about what we talk about, and when we talk about and when we don't talk about it. You know, the middle of election season is probably not the time to start talking about 5 ice rinks, swimming 19 pools, 40 summer camps, and 40 recreation 20 centers. I get that. But you're not going to get it done in the next 70 days. I mean, come on. I mean, we just -- You know, so we're having our private conversations. We're having public conversations. 329 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 The President asked you, you know, I mean, where is the public in this? There are a bunch of people sitting here at this hearing, other folks watching trying to figure out what's going on. I don't know what they're going to take out of this display here today, and everybody will be waiting for the new, you know, word perfect, you know, word document, whatever you're going to type it on list. But I guess my question now would be, then what? What's going to happen after Thursday? And the list that the Councilman talked about and the list that's been asked about, when that comes in Thursday by lunchtime, then what?

Mr. Richard

If I don't have the money in my budget to open up all of the facilities, the list that I'm going to present on Thursday is going to be properties and operational things that I will have to do to maintain the budget, to work within the dollars that have been 330 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 appropriated. And I will continue to work with the community and also with the Council.

Councilman Nutter

Well, I know you were talking, and I think I understand most of the words that you were saying. Let me make sure that at my level I'm understanding this. I thought what I heard you say is, if you don't have the money in your budget to operate these facilities, then you won't operate these facilities. Is that what you're saying?

Mr. Richard

If I'm not given the money to hire the employees seasonally that I need to hire for either the pools, the camps or whatever, the list that I will provide on Thursday will be the recommended facilities in order for me to operate within the monies that have been appropriated, yes, sir.

Councilman Nutter

Meaning that you won't operate the facilities that are on any of those now collection of lists. 331 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

Yes, sir.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. All right. I heard you. Thank you, Madam President. I have some other questions, but I'll come back.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Councilman DiCicco, you wanted to be recognized. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No, no further questions. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, I'd like to talk about a existing facility. A year ago I got a letter in reference to the Kingsessing Rec Center. And it says it has a football field which is badly in need of some attention. Also, looking for possible... Well, the point here is, what is the existing condition of some of the -- I guess we call them A facilities or facilities like I'm describing here, a football field that 332 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 potentially is a dangerous environment to play football on? Has this facility been taken care of or is it in still the shape that the constituent wrote the letter? And you know, it's interesting -- and I hope we're doing this -- apparently this advisory council applied and received a few thousand dollars from the National Football League. And I know I sent you some information over about the NFL providing some lighting and some grants for some City recreation facilities. So, what's the condition of that field? And I'd just like to use that as an example of some of the problems that you're experiencing, trying to keep these facilities in good condition?

Mr. Williams

Good afternoon, Councilman.

Councilman Rizzo

Can't hear you.

Mr. Williams

Good afternoon, Councilman. 333 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 I'm glad you spoke at Kingsessing in reference to there's been a specific amount of money that's been allocated for the exterior grounds. As you may recall, about two years ago we completely renovated and made a team center out of the Kingsessing Recreation Center and the interior. Our next goal was to try to improve the outside and exterior grounds which included the pool, renovation of the pool, installation of new play equipment, as well as the basketball courts, tennis courts and, of course, the ball field. Recently, last year, we were awarded a grant in the amount of $925,000, along with a state grant, about maybe $135,000, and some small City subsidy dollars that go along with it, to try to fix the entire outside exterior grounds. That money right now and the amount of the project cost about $1.7 million to completely rehab. We are about $1.3 million in, and we are currently looking 334 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 for other dollars to complete the facility. The field is a part of it, as well as the -- the -- general, the play equipment, and the basketball courts, and the tennis courts. So we do expect to make full renovations of the --

Councilman Rizzo

So by next football season we should be seeing a new playing surface there or a reconditioned one or whatever you call it?

Mr. Williams

Well, given the capital program process, I don't think next -- next season we will be able to do that because of construction would be starting, and the bid documents have to be awarded, and so forth.

Councilman Rizzo

Well, you would hope you would do that work off season, wouldn't you?

Councilman Rizzo

Yeah, when it's not...

Mr. Williams

And to answer your question in general, right now that's been 335 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 a big concern of our department, in terms of the amount of work that we do on football fields and ball fields in general. We've worked on an initiative with the Streets Department, to try to free up some of our equipment operators so that we can operate other machinery to work with ball fields, and so forth. But the Streets Department would then pick up our trash and free up our operators to do other responsibilities, like maintaining ball fields, maintaining football fields, and soccer fields, and so forth.

Councilman Rizzo

And we do -- I believe the Administration... I know at least at one time we had grants office, a group of people that would be looking for every bit of outside funding. Mr. Dubow, do we still do that? Are we looking? Because I hear about these NFL grants, this grant, that grant. Then when I ask the question, everybody acts surprised that there's such an initiative 336 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 out there. Are we aware of this NFL program that helps light and helps maintain some of these types of facilities?

Mr. Dubow

We have a grant center in the Managing Director's Office. And I'll check with them to see whether they know about --

Councilman Rizzo

Because I sent the Commissioner over the info about the NFL wanting to spend some money on upgrades to some of these facilities. And I hope... I mean, that's...

Mr. Dubow

We'll, right. We'll --

Councilman Rizzo

...Square, one if there's money out there. You'll get back to the Chair with that?

Councilman Rizzo

That's a question, right? Thanks. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Councilman DiCicco, your lights on 337 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 again. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yes. I'm sorry. I failed to mention something. I just want to say to the Commissioner. I think Councilman Nutter and maybe Councilman Ramos mentioned this earlier. We go through this every day of the week 365 days a year. (Alarm sounds) That's a quick five minutes. Anyway, you know, we don't envy this position you're in. And, you know, we all have to deal with this budget issue and try to figure out how to get it to where it's reasonable and less painful, as I said earlier. But I do want to take this opportunity. A couple weeks ago I had the pleasure of going to the Katie Curlin Wheelchair Tournament up at the University of St. Joseph's University. My prior experience was about a month or two before that. And I believe it's Councilman Nutter's District in the Caversaw House in Fairmount Park. And it 338 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 was a very moving experience. And I do want to take this time to thank you, Commissioner and your Department. For those of you who have never attended one of the wheelchair tournaments, I would certainly encourage you to do so. And the fact of the matter is that all of the employees from the Department of Recreation, who spend a considerable amount of time throughout the year, do it as a pro bono. There is no cost to the City. There's no overtime. There's straight time costs. It is all volunteer work by the department. So I wanted to take this opportunity to acknowledge that, and thank you for all you and the rest of your employees...

Mr. Richard

Thank you. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: ...for all the fine work you've done. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you, Councilman. 339 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

Thank you.

Council President Verna

And I would like to echo what Councilman DiCicco has just said. I've been here for a long time, and I can tell you that I have the greatest admiration for your staff. They do work very, very hard. They are truly, truly excellent public servants. And believe me, during the course of these hearings it is not that we are trying to be obstructionists in what it is that you are trying to do. However, I will say, and I will reiterate what I said earlier, that I think the community should have been a part of this. I really mean that. Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. One more question. And I know you may find that hard to believe. Commissioner, a couple items. You talked about the spray pool issue earlier. I think you told us that it would cost $75,000 per facility but that the capital 340 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 fund for that had not been identified. Can I... I don't want to make any assumptions, so tell me where you've identified a pool to be closed and you propose to have a spray pool, tell me about the logistics of... You've identified a particular pool. You want to replace it with a spray pool. Will you keep it open until the construction time comes to install the new facility or would there potentially be a gap in time between closure and the new installation?

Mr. Richard

Your honor, I would say there would be both scenarios in the places where we do have the physical plant, what we could do to install simultaneous to the demo...

Councilman Nutter

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Richard

...that we should do that. And quite naturally, we would have capital projects, planning. The community would be on the forefront of doing the actual design, the same way in their 341 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 design, and built the exact same way that the play structures are. And then there may be certain situations, if we're going to use the same ground that a pool is on. But my recommendation would be that if possible we maintain the pool through that summer. And my recommendation is that the construction will be done in the off season, and we would lose no service time to the children.

Councilman Nutter

Well, I understand that. But given the fact that you don't have any money for this item, you're not going to do any spray pools this year, right?

Mr. Richard

Right now I don't have any money to do any at this moment.

Councilman Nutter

Are you anticipating some capital dollars coming to you in a capital budget that's smaller than it was last year?

Mr. Richard

Not at the present, sir. 342 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilman Nutter

All right. So it is highly unlikely that you are going to have any capital dollars in FY '05 to deal with spray pools.

Mr. Richard

At the present time there's no money appropriated, that's correct, sir.

Councilman Nutter

And when you tell us that the cost is $75,000, I have to believe that that is just for the spray pool equipment and installation. What's the cost of taking the swimming pool out of service which I again would assume -- I mean, what are you going to do, fill them in? Or are you going to dig them all out and bring the facility back up to grade? What's the cost of... Before you get to installation of the spray pool, what's the cost of preparing the site to be ready for the spray pool?

Mr. Richard

It would -- It would be both, exactly like you said. Depending -- It would go on a per. I don't 343 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 have the hard numbers available for the fill-in. But I also know that in our discussions, and working with some of the manufacturers, that the preexisting pool, pump and filtration, and some of the plumbing could be tied in. But I'm not available to give you the hard numbers.

Councilman Nutter

All right. Well, I think we'd need to see a full plan for that. Let me move to purchasing or leasing of a City recreation facility. Who would be responsible for -- responsible under that arrangement for capital improvements for that facility?

Mr. Richard

The City would maintain that.

Councilman Nutter

That's the maintenance.

Mr. Richard

That would be the --

Councilman Nutter

I'm asking about capital improvements.

Mr. Richard

The City would 344 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 maintain those recommendations. The recommendation would be that the capital improvements for any facility that would be in a transfer lease, that the recommendations, we would maintain the capital improvements.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Can you provide to the Chair a plan that lays out... This goes back to the question that you responded to a while ago to Councilwoman Reynolds Brown. If your proposal goes forward some how, some way, if a significant majority of us completely lose our minds... (Laughter.)

Mr. Richard

Thank you.

Councilman Nutter

...and allow this to go forward... But, you know, anything could happen on any given day... I'd like to see a plan that demonstrates to us your statement, the verification of your statement that services will continue to be provided, no diminution in services, because I'd like to understand where you 345 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 think all of these children are going to go. I'd like to understand the capacity of the remaining centers to absorb kids coming from another location, any additional costs that will be incurred as a result of having to increase staff, programs, facilities at those centers because you closed something a block away, two blocks away, whatever the case maybe. So I'd like to understand the full impact on the system, and any additional cost that would arise as a result of closing facilities, for whatever the reason is. Councilman Goode talked about because of obsolescence or budget problems. And I want to see what the actual financials are at the end of that process because there will be additional costs. Lastly, how much money did the Recreation Department spend last year or in the last fiscal year for capital improvements to all of its facilities?

Mr. Richard

I'd need to get back 346 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 to you to give you the complete number. I don't have that available. I'm sorry.

Councilman Nutter

Give me... Give me an estimate. Give me a ballpark figure.

Mr. Richard

I couldn't speculate right now.

Councilman Nutter

Tell me what the level of work has been, related to minority, female and disadvantaged businesses in the context of capital improvements at City recreation facilities.

Mr. Richard

I would probably need somebody from Capital to assist on answering that, sir.

Councilman Nutter

Cap from your staff or Capital Programs?

Mr. Richard

I'm sorry?

Councilman Nutter

Capital from your staff or the CPO, the Capital Programs Office?

Mr. Richard

We don't have capital staff in-house. Myself, along with Deputy Commissioner Williams, do the Capital. Within the Capital Department, there's a 347 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 division responsible for just Capital.

Councilman Nutter

So you're saying you do the Capital improvements?

Mr. Richard

Myself, along with Deputy Commissioner Williams. We work very closely with managing the capital projects pieces.

Councilman Nutter

So in that context, you can't tell me in a ballpark figure a hundred million, two hundred million; I mean, some sense of what the capital expenditures were in the last fiscal year for improvements to recreation facilities?

Mr. Richard

I'm sorry, sir. I can't speculate the number. I'm sorry.

Councilman Nutter

I understand.

Mr. Dubow

The Capital Program Office tracks that.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Dubow

That's what you would need.

Mr. Richard

I would have it, but I don't have that number sitting in the back 348 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 of my head. And I don't want to speculate. I apologize, sir.

Councilman Nutter

I understand. Are you aware of... Can you name any minority, female or disadvantaged businesses who provide capital improvement services to the Recreation Department?

Mr. Richard

I know there was a company Centera that bid, but I'm not positive off the top of my head, sir, if they've done any work.

Councilman Nutter

I'm fairly familiar with that firm. I think they primarily provide more in the landscaping and kind of street improvements. I'm talking about play equipment, cement, metal, steel. I mean, I'm talking about construction activity at our centers: Roofing, renovation, anything.

Mr. Williams

Excuse me, Councilman. My relationship with them, no, I don't recall any... any minority, female participation participating in those activities that you mention. 349 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilman Nutter

None.

Mr. Williams

None. CPO --

Councilwoman Brown

Madam Chairman.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. To Councilman's Nutter's important questions, especially in the environment where this issue of MBE WBE participation is an abysmal disgrace, can we ask the Capital Program Office to return so that explicit, accurate answers can be gotten, specifically to Councilman Nutter's questions?

Council President Verna

I will be happy to do that.

Councilwoman Brown

And particularly with the Recreation Department.

Mr. Dubow

During the capital hearing, the Capital Program Office was asked to give a response on participation. And we'll ask them... Okay. They've 350 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 submitted that answer. We'll ask them to break out Recreation, too, so you can see it by that department.

Councilwoman Brown

So that has already been forwarded to the Chair?

Councilman Nutter

I have no idea. What -- What...

Council President Verna

What was submitted and when?

Councilman Nutter

What was the question and what was the answer?

Mr. Dubow

There was -- The Capital Program Office was asked during the capital budget hearing to give an answer on participation rates...

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Dubow

...for capital projects. And that answer, as I understand it, has been sent to the Chair.

Council President Verna

Not yet.

Councilwoman Brown

Not yet? Madam President, isn't it --

Councilman Nutter

Does this mean all capital projects? 351 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Dubow

Yes. And when I say that they will then give a break-out, we'll ask them to go back and split out Recreation.

Councilman Nutter

All right.

Council President Verna

Whatever we have received has been distributed, so I don't think we've received that information yet.

Councilman Nutter

I'm actually up to date on my mail, so I don't have anything.

Council President Verna

But we will get Miss Ortiz, to be absolutely certain.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Council President Verna

This is a disgrace.

Mr. Dubow

I understand that you were a little while ago. We'll check to see what happened.

Council President Verna

Please.

Councilman Nutter

All right. Are you still in your... 352 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilwoman Brown

Is it appropriate to have the Capital Program Office return, Madam President? And could we have a sidebar about that?

Council President Verna

We can certainly do that.

Councilman Nutter

More than appropriate. More than appropriate.

Council President Verna

We certainly will do that.

Councilman Nutter

Well, we need to get Procurement back as well, and we might as well bring the MBEC in for added measure. I mean, bring the whole crew. It's a mess. It's a mess.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you.

Councilman Nutter

I have one last question. Councilman Reynolds Brown worked very hard a number of years ago -- not that they she hasn't worked hard in the interim, but... on this particular issue. And I'd like to, now that the projects are actually complete, I'd like to better understand 353 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 where we are with the... I raised during the Art Museum discussion. But I think it's even... It's actually that much more pertinent for the Recreation Department. The Recreation Department until, I guess, a couple weeks ago, maintained the largest recreation facility in the City of Philadelphia called Veterans Stadium. It's recently imploded. Council President and others worked on that. That facility was 30 years old. It was inadequate for the users, who are in many instances quite overpaid, but that's a different discussion for another day. We built or participated in the construction of two brand new facilities. We have a $6 million annual and growing obligation for one of the facilities. And similar to the Art Museum, we're talking about closing recreation facilities that serve children. $6 million a year for adults, who in many instances act like children... But we're going to close 354 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 facilities for children because we have no 3 money. (Applause.)

Councilman Nutter

I said it earlier; I'll say it again. That is in fact a disgrace. But out of that... This goes to the work of my colleague... there was money provided for programs for children. Now, I don't know all of the details. I don't know where it is. I don't know what the dollars could be used for, but I know that they were for children. It's a million a year from each facility. It's $2 million a year for 30 years. And I don't know what the other plans may be, but it seems to me that before we even think about closing a facility, we should be exploring all possible sources of funding. And so now I'd like to understand, do we have those dollars in hand? What can they be used for? Who's in control of 355 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 them? And then depending on those responses, I may have a few other questions. What's the story?

Mr. Dubow

As I remember, that those dollars do not come to us. They go to... And I forget --

Councilman Nutter

Where do they go?

Mr. Dubow

-- where they go to.

Councilwoman Brown

I'd like to try to respond to some of my colleague's questions. At the insistence of the bond counsel during those negotiations, they required that none of those dollars be returned to a City government agency. The bottom line, after looking at several agencies in the City -- And none of those dollars could go to an entity that had an elected official on their board. So those dollars are now at the house, at the Philadelphia Foundation. And it is the Philadelphia Foundation's principal responsibility to release RFP's 356 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 to provide for program areas in five areas: After school programs, arts and cultural programs, athletic programs, parenting workshops, and early childhood programs. And having met with the head of the Philadelphia Foundation about a month ago, that first RFP was let some time earlier in the year. And that's where we are with that first $1 million that is now in the fund. So currently they only have $1 million that came from the Eagles last November.

Councilman Nutter

Right. Well, I mean, the Phillies just got started.

Councilwoman Brown

So the Rec Department, City government, the Mayor's Office, none of us... We are now, because of the way the legislation was crafted, are completely removed from the distribution of those dollars. It all rests with the Philadelphia Foundation.

Councilman Nutter

Well, thank you, Councilwoman, for the update because I hadn't heard anything about it. 357 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 I think, though, I'd still go back to the fundamental premise that if we could figure out a way four years ago to support the sports teams -- And I voted for that -- with a or so year commitment with the 7 kind of funding for at least one of the 8 stadiums, and somehow now find ourselves in 9 a situation of closing recreation 10 facilities for children, while supporting, 11 you know, basically a palace of 12 recreational activity for adults, I think 13 we've got our priorities completely spun 14 around. 15 (Applause.) 16

Councilman Nutter

And we need to 17 figure out a different solution to this. 18 But I don't think this plan, as I 19 said earlier, is ready. We're going to 20 take people through a very painful exercise to not have very much accomplished, you know, when we're finished with the exercise. And I think that in the context of what we do with some of the adult type 358 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 facilities, we really need to check ourselves about what we're doing with children's facilities. So, I look forward to getting all the lists, and all the data, and all the information. I would assume, Madam Chair, that we're probably not finished with Recreation. You should... The Chair will give you direction. But you should probably anticipate coming back. And I very much would like to see the information about the Capital Program, as it relates to the Recreation Department, the total amount of dollars spent over the last two fiscal years. I'd like to see all of the contractors who have been involved. I want to know what dollar amounts they received. I want to know what the work was that they did, and what the demographic profile is for those companies. And I'd also ask that Capital Program, as well as Procurement and MBEC 359 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 all come back so that we can get a complete picture of what's going on. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

And I would like to stand corrected. We did get some responses from the Capital Program Office. And it was distributed to all Council members on April 15th and signed for. I don't know that it has the information that the Councilwoman was asking. But we did get some information from them. Gentlemen, thank you all so very much. Mr. Dubow, smile. We do love you.

Mr. Richard

Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, members of the City Council.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Mr. Richard

Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

And you will be in touch with us? 360 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

Oh, yes, ma'am. Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Sooner than later, please.

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Camp William Penn is next. Oh, Commissioner, before I forget to ask you, what happened to the employees that had been working at the Vet Stadium?

Mr. Richard

Some of those employees transferred to... Some went to the Water Department; some went to the Airport. I know one or two went to Public Property. Do you know how many we retained? UNIDENTIFIED MAN: We had 14.

Mr. Richard

We had 14 left of I want to say the 29 or 30 that were there. Yes, ma'am. Most of them went to --

Council President Verna

They have all been reassigned. Thank you.

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Thank you. 361 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Camp William Penn. Commissioner.

Mr. Richard

I would like to take a moment and introduce our new Camp Director, Mike Shelton for Camp William Penn. Mike.

Mr. Shelton

Good afternoon.

Council President Verna

Good afternoon and welcome.

Mr. Richard

Camp William Penn is requesting a total of $283,384 in General Fund appropriations for fiscal year '05. The '05 budget supports four full-time employees. And I'd like to make a correction in my testimony. It's not 40. It's 60 seasonal employees to staff Camp William Penn during the camping season starting July 1 of '04, ending August 13th of '04. In FY '04 Camp William Penn continued to provide one five-day encampment and three eight-day encampments for boys and girls ages 8 through 12. In '04, 565 children attended the 362 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 camp. We plan to accommodate 720 campers in '05. Camp William Penn plans to sustain its recruitment efforts, to attract additional campers through our recreation centers for the '04 camp season. Camp staff will continue to send press releases announcing the camp opportunities to community newspapers, social service agencies, and public and parochial elementary schools. Located in the heart of the Pocono Mountains on a 671 acre camp site, camp William Penn introduces urban youth to a myriad of outdoor activities that can be enjoyed during a residential camping experience. Campers may row, swim a seven-acre lake, hike through the woods, and participate in different activities such as sports, arts and crafts, and outdoor activities. The campers learn a sense of self-reliance by participating in camping 363 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 activities, such as pitching their tents and cooking around the campfire. They also experience the ultimate camping experience, sitting around the campfire and exchanging stories. Youth from all neighborhoods across Philadelphia attend Camp William Penn. It is an especially attractive summer activity for children who otherwise might not have an opportunity to attend a residential summer camp. Camp William Penn retains an average of 50 percent of its staff from year to year. Staff is recruited from local colleges and universities, and must be at least years of age, pass a child line 18 background check, Pennsylvania State Police records check, and drug and alcohol testing as well. Once hired, all staff participates in a six-day training and orientation week at the camp site prior to the arrival of our campers. That week includes CPR and first aid 364 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 training, fire and safety orientation procedures for proper responses, several types of emergencies, proper camper management techniques to minimize problem behavior, and to maintain camp discipline. There's also a review of the camp schedule of activities and program planning and implementation. Staff orientation for this year will be from July 2nd to July 7th, with our first campers arriving on July 8th. The last encampment will end August the 13th of '04. I'd like to take this opportunity to say thank you for letting us present our budget for Camp William Penn, and we'll be glad to answer any questions at this time.

Council President Verna

Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam Chair. In FY '04 we had 565 campers. How does this compare to the three previous years? Is there an increase, decrease or 365 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 not?

Mr. Richard

We had a decrease. In the summer of '01 we had 669. In the summer of '02 we had 627. Breakdown of boys and girls: In '01 one we had 371 and 298 with girls. In '02 we had 327 and 300. We had a camp management change. Our previous camp director retired and Michael was selected through a very vigorous interview process. And I believe Michael had approximately two months or less to take over the camp. So along with myself, Deputy Commissioner Coles, Deputy Commissioner Williams, Deputy Commissioner Carapucci, and a lot of diligent work by Bill Mifflin, we pulled it off, but... Bill Mifflin, along with Michael out front. I can turn over the mike over to Mike right now, and let him speak in reference to a lot of the things that they're doing right now in order eo enhance and improve on the services, along with also a new board and diversity as well. 366 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilwoman Brown

I appreciate that. Could you also speak to the outreach efforts you will be doing new and/or different that will move you to the 720 level you want to achieve.

Mr. Shelton

When I took over this position, I realized that... Oh, I'm sorry. Michael Shelton, Director of Camp William Penn. When I took over this position, I realized that the recruitment process that was in place was extremely tedious and very complicated for parents to follow. So the first line was to actually simplify this. So we have been hearing many compliments from people that we have simplified the procedure. It's very user friendly. So that was our first step.

Councilwoman Brown

Could you slow down just a little...

Councilwoman Brown

...so I can follow you. 367 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Shelton

Okay. So our first step was to make our application process much more user friendly. So that was step one. Number two, we are attempting to reach out to communities that normally would not attend summer camp. So we have had our materials translated into Spanish. We've had our materials translated into Chinese, so we're trying to reach communities not normally served by Camp William Penn.

Councilwoman Brown

Very good. You already mentioned private schools and parochial schools. And I'm sure you're using rec centers, since that's a natural base to touch young people, correct?

Mr. Shelton

Correct.

Councilwoman Brown

Any involvement of churches, the clergy community?

Mr. Shelton

At this point, no. 24

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. Let me encourage you to do that. There are many 368 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 members of the clergy of all denominations who want a safe haven for young people during the summer, and welcome that kind of information, and use the City Councilperson's offices for that as well. So if you would, make sure that we get bundles of information now, so that we have the next month or so to get it out to the worlds that we touch.

Mr. Richard

Thank you, Madam Councilwoman. You're correct. Yes, we're going to do a mail out to all of the clergy. We have the list of all of the clergy for the entire City. Michael mentioned that we had the brochure translated into Spanish. We also have the brochure translated into Asian as well. So, those are some of the things that we're doing different this year, along with the new board that has been put in place, and the diversity of the new board for the camp as well.

Councilwoman Brown

That's 369 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 encouraging. MBE WBE does have a presence -- Minority and women presence is felt at that level.

Mr. Richard

The makeup of the board, off of memory at one meeting myself, there's an Asian female. I don't know the Latino person as of yet. There's a black male, a black female, and we have a Caucasian, white, the whole bit; yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Brown

One other suggestion to consider. There are a number of professional organization in the City that have a lot of activities for and about kids, that care about kids, that will jump at information, like your Panheletic which is your fraternities and sororities, you know, the MBA's, the black MBA's, CPA's, call it. To the extent that they have that information, they are more than willing to send it out to their membership because they're parents as well. So consider using the professional organization world in the 370 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 City additionally when you want to do the outreach piece.

Mr. Richard

Thank you.

Councilwoman Brown

That's it for me, Madam President, with regards to William Penn.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be brief. Commissioner, I have not had the pleasure of going to Camp William Penn. But I wanted to ask you. I'm sorry. I haven't had the pleasure of going to Camp William Penn. But I wanted to ask you: The season is July 1 to August 13?

Mr. Richard

(Nods head in the affirmative.)

Councilman Nutter

And I guess when we think about not only our budget situation, but even thinking back to the testimony about... from Fairmount Park and 371 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 their need to generate revenues or create revenue enhancing opportunities, what goes on at the camp for the other ten months?

Mr. Richard

The camp is closed, dormant most of the time. It's... At the present condition, with the plumbing and the way it's a rustic facility, so we have to blow out all of the lines and get rid of it. Those are some of the things that we're looking at exploring now. I'll let Bill Mifflin talk about some of the challenges or I guess recommendations that I'm having him and Michael to do, especially with the school system and wanting to use the place more and expose more children. I have the exact same feelings that you have, too, Your Honor, that we can do more.

Councilman Nutter

Before we get to Mr. Mifflin, I mean, I think the last time I was in the Poconos I was 12. I don't remember where it was. I know people seem 372 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 to go there at all times of the year, you know, summer, winter, fall, you know, spring. And I've never really been good with acreage, but 671 acres sounds like a lot of ground. Is this a pretty big place?

Mr. Richard

Yes, sir.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And some of the other... I don't want to call them resorts. But some of the other places that people go in the Poconos... I mean, can you give me a sense of how large they are in comparison to Camp William Penn?

Mr. Richard

My knowledge is limited. I know they have some facilities. Bill can talk more. Some facilities are smaller. We are a larger one in that particular area where we are, at East Stroudsburg. Three-fourths of the property, I would say, is undeveloped. And I'm going off of my practical... not having it measured out. Or either I would say two-thirds is undeveloped and one-third or 373 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 either one-fourth of the facility is where the camp is actually run. Some of -- Some of my recommendations and challenges to Michael and Bill since coming aboard, is to take a look at the possibility of: Can we develop some sort of outdoor environmental camps and make it part of the school system, where we come in and teach or make a presentation, not on an every-day curriculum; and then towards the end of the school year, start bringing up either the middle school or the high school children to the camp to use it, in a one-day event, to teach them what -- to give them the practical ap from the theory that has been presented in the classroom.

Councilman Nutter

Well, I think all of that is very exciting. And certainly any additional opportunities, whatever the season may be, for young people would be wonderful. I guess I'm thinking about this more from an entrepreneurial standpoint and a 374 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 revenue enhancement standpoint. And I would be intrigued to know, for instance, have we ever tried to determine the value of this property?

Mr. Richard

That was one of the questions that...

Councilman Nutter

I'm sorry, Commissioner, I didn't hear you.

Mr. Richard

...the COUNCILMAN presented as well. Bill can talk a little bit more because that's a charge that he has right now: Not only assessing it, but also to take a look at doing cultivating and selling some of the lumber there, not fitting it out. And I'll let Bill talk about that. But I appreciate you bringing up that question as well, but also some of the conversations and charges that I have been entertaining with Bill and Michael is to... And I'm not there yet; we just started talking about this... is the possibility of creating a corporate retreat. 375 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Richard

...on a part of the facility. And yes, we've discussed it. We are not there yet. I'll let Bill talk about where he is now, but I appreciate you bringing that out, sir.

Councilman Nutter

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Mifflin

Good afternoon. I'm Bill Mifflin.

Council President Verna

Good afternoon.

Mr. Mifflin

Thank you, Council President. It's a pleasure to be here this afternoon. Delighted to speak about Camp William Penn. I think the Commissioner has outlined many of our most recent initiatives. Both Michael and I started last April with this project, so the last year was our first encampment, so to speak, in a leadership role. And I've been looking -- I can talk 376 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 a lot about what we're doing internally with the programs. But I think, you know, I'll try to address -- And a lot of exciting things, and it is -- it's a lot about environmental education, and it's a lot working with the School District of Philadelphia, as well as the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. As the Commissioner indicated, a 671 acre camp is about 100 acres of development or what we call the center camp. The remaining is almost wilderness. It's, quite frankly, never been harvested from a timber management. The land has never really been managed in any fashion. So, we are looking into that, as it would go to forest rehabilitation issues, such as over browsing of deer, infringing development, and then also with the possibility of revenue enhancement. I think we can help sustain the forest and perhaps take some timber off areas that have not been really ever 377 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 harvested, to my knowledge. We back up to the Delaware State Forest, so it's an incredible expanse of wilderness. It's about miles from the 6 Delaware Water Gap, and it's in a pristine 7 Pocono region. So, it is a highly 8 desirable location. 9 As the Commissioner indicated, none 10 of it is winterized. It has been since its 11 inception a seasonal operation. 12 We're looking at some of the 13 properties. And there are... In 100 acres 14 of center camp, there are probably a dozen 15 major facilities, like girls and boys rec 16 halls, dining halls, offices, infirmary, 17 things of those nature, buildings of that 18 nature that perhaps we could do some 19 long-term winterization projects in so that 20 the camp could grow into the other weeks and months of the year. We've had discussions with the School District about using the facility in June and in September when -- in the beginning and the conclusion of our normal 378 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 camp for two-day science projects, come up with a science teacher, do the lab work up there, in a -- in a -- some sort of a fee arrangement type process, as we would have to have some counseling staff there as well. So we are looking, I think on the short-term, to grow it a month on each end, and then longer term, and perhaps a conference center or some sort of an entrepreneurial operation. There are, I believe, some opportunities there. Lastly, I'm having the area mapped, both from an aerial perspective and using tax assessor maps, with the purpose to see if there could be some de-accessioning of some of the property. There is development surrounding the camp. And I think we have some opportunities here of... for perhaps de-accessioning small portions of the camp. We're a long way, if you will, in that process. We need to do deed determinations, 379 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 and looking at the history of how the camp was acquired, and any conveyances or any types of legal issues associated with the property. Can the property be developed for... And in what manner? Is there a proper percolation, et cetera? So, we are -- we are certainly looking into that. I don't really know what the property value of the entire facility is, but it would be a fairly significant amount.

Councilman Nutter

I would think. Would you, either Commissioner or Mr. Mifflin, at least entertain or explore getting an appraisal?

Mr. Mifflin

Yes, we are. I'm sorry.

Councilman Nutter

Of the property.

Mr. Mifflin

I failed to mention that. On May 3rd --

Mr. Richard

That's one of his directives I gave him. He's got a couple of months to go, sir. Thank you. 380 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Mifflin

Well, we've gotten it up.

Mr. Mifflin

I'm meeting with an appraiser on May 3rd of this year.

Councilman Nutter

Very good. I guess the last thing I would tell you is that this is one of those situations where more than likely, again, beyond the school use... I mean, if we were going to maximize the use of the property, while maintaining, I mean, a significant portion of the kind of untouched, undeveloped components, so there had to be some balance, probably the easiest way to get some kind of development there is through a long-term lease arrangement with someone who's basically in the development business.

Mr. Mifflin

Development business.

Councilman Nutter

Who would be looking to primarily use the property, for instance, in the fall and winter. Built into the lease agreement is a 381 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 first right of use for the Recreation Department and possibly through us the School District, for now we're talking about expanding on each side of your normal period. So now you're really talking about June through September.

Councilman Nutter

And I don't even know what our complete needs would be during that time. But, you know, all you ever -- You hear about people, you know, they're going to the Poconos; they're going to the Poconos; they're going to the Poconos. Well, they're going up there for something.

Councilman Nutter

And to the extent that we entered into that kind of arrangement with someone, they're going to invest their own capital in the site for their own for-profit purposes.

Councilman Nutter

Through our lease agreement, we cover ourselves. And 382 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the facility, one, should take care of itself, and probably return some dollars to the City and cover all the costs for the camp activity.

Mr. Mifflin

I agree with you, Councilman. We are certainly not excluding any partnership with a for-profit operation. It sits in an area where there are golf courses nearby. There's certainly a plethora of recreational opportunities in the area. I think there is a sincere opportunity for development of some type, in a recreational manner, that would be consistent with what we are providing in the camp.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Mifflin

Let me also mention that just internally within the City for this past year we reached out for the first time. And again, this isn't a revenue issue, but I wanted to mention that we had the Office of Emergency Services using the 383 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 camp for their family shelter. Mothers and children used the camp for a good week for the first time. And we also reached out to Police Athletic League. So we are getting a real cross-section of Philadelphians using the... Children and the ages of 8 to 12.

Councilman Nutter

Good.

Mr. Mifflin

We've also reached out locally to the East Stroudsburg High School. Their girls soccer camp is coming for a week which is also a revenue producing operation for us. So, we're starting to tap the local community as well.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam President, and good afternoon.

Mr. Mifflin

Good afternoon COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: General 384 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 location, Poconos. When we talk about the Poconos, is it near Split Rock...

Mr. Mifflin

It's not real close to Split Rock. The closest resort, if you've ever heard of Shawnnee. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Shawnee.

Mr. Mifflin

Yeah. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Which is closer to the City than Split Rock is, right?

Mr. Mifflin

That's correct. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's not as far out.

Mr. Mifflin

Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So it's before the tunnel? It's before the tunnel exit?

Mr. Mifflin

You exit the Lehigh Valley. The best way is exiting Lehigh, so it is before the tunnel, yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Right before the tunnel.

Mr. Mifflin

Yeah. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm just trying to get a general idea where it is.

Mr. Mifflin

It's 15 miles 385 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 northwest of East Stroudsburg. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay. Familiar with that. Familiar with that. I used to take my kids skiing up there. What do the four full-time employees do off season? Are they part Rec employees? Are they assigned to Department of Rec activities or what happens with them?

Mr. Richard

Michael right here is responsible for the camp year round. He's back and forth at the camp. He has one clerical assistant that does all of the clerical stuff on a daily basis year round. And we have two full-time caretakers. One actually lives on the property, quite naturally. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's part of that four full-time employees, I assume?

Mr. Richard

Yes, sir, these are the full. The other two are -- Both of them are named Fred. Fred and Fred. Fred Rockworth and -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We don't have a 386 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 residency issue here, do we?

Mr. Richard

No, sir. But they're... I mean, you have to see this property. People always want to come on it and drive ATV's. And that's part of Fred's job, as well, is the security of the property. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay. I understand that. I understand that.

Mr. Richard

They also do all of the roofing work. They do all of the plumbing work, and everything else. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So it's general maintenance year round. Okay. What type of structures are on the property or how many of them are there, generally speaking.

Mr. Richard

There's... And Michael, you can help me. There's 100 buildings. There's one massive rec hall, that's as big as this entire facility. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: 100 buildings?

Mr. Richard

Yes, sir. The camp -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: What kind of 387 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 buildings?

Mr. Richard

When you talk about main camp, main... That is where the camp itself is. And the other two-thirds or three-fourths of the property is undeveloped wilderness. And we only use sections of that sporadically. And I'll explain. In the center of the camp is the camp director's office, and there's a cabin for the camp director. And then you have the infirmary. There's a full infirmary that can sleep and house two nurses. One of our national requirements that we meet is that we have to have at least one and preferably two full-time R.N.'s on staff around the clock. And right next to that is what we call the mess hall which is gigantic. And we bring in all of the children at one time. So this one facility can house 280 minimum children to feed them at one time. That is -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: How many? 388 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

280. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That was going to be my -- Excuse me for interrupting. That was going to be one of my questions. What's the maximum number of young people who are at the facility at any given time?

Mr. Richard

Right now it's 280. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: 280.

Mr. Richard

We can house 140 boys and 140 girls. The way the camp is set up and designed, on one end of the camp is nothing but the girls' side of the camp, and on the other end -- and the lake is pretty much the midway dividing point. So on the other end is where the boys are. And also overlooking the lake -- And I'll proud to say we have a brand new structure up, the outside shell and a brand new roof on the rec hall, the girls' rec hall. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The 240 or so children who stay there, the young people, that makes up that one five-day and the 389 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 three eight-day encampments.

Mr. Richard

Yes, sir. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman Nutter spoke about some issues. He mentioned entrepreneurial issues. And I'm going to take it to a different level, I guess. Certainly this is a great facility and offers opportunities for urban young people who may never get to experience this kind of activity. What makes... Tell me what's so different, other than the lake, about Camp William Penn, in terms of the activities that young people could engage in, different than Fairmount Park.

Mr. Mifflin

I'd like to take a shot at that. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's outside the City. I understand it's not urban. It's country. But we have 9100 acres or so in Fairmount Park, in a setting which if you were -- if you didn't know Philadelphia and someone dropped you out of a plane -- 390 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 and I mean this sincerely -- and you landed in Belmont plateau or somewhere near Wissahickon Creek along near one of those trails, you would never know that you were in the middle of an urban setting. So again, I'm putting my entrepreneurial hat, on without meaning any disrespect to the William Penn program and the fine things that it offers people. But I'm... We're faced with a budget situation here. I hear 670 acres in the heart of the Poconos. It's got to be worth a lotta lotta money, a lotta lotta money. And I'm just thinking in the simplest of terms, if the land were to be sold, assuming we can even sell it -- and I don't know if there's any prohibition on selling it -- it's got to generate millions of dollars. That money could be used to set up a facility or facilities within the Fairmount Park System that would offer young people similar types of activities, again, with 391 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the exception of the lake, although we do have a river, we have streams, we have bridal paths, all those kinds of things. I'm just looking at this purely as a business venture. Has anyone ever given -- And Bill Mifflin, I'm glad your here because, obviously, your previous position with the Fairmount Park Commission, you can speak from... No disrespect to you, Commissioner Richard. You can speak from experience. Did anyone ever think about that? I mean, with the -- with the -- with the onset... And I know we're going to get slots in this state. I can't imagine what one of those casinos would pay for that 670 acres because they're going to be up in the Poconos. We're going to get at least two in Philadelphia, more than likely slot parlors. And they're going to build new facilities throughout this Commonwealth. And the Poconos are one of those areas where they're actually looking to build. I 392 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 mean, you're probably talking minimum of $50 million. How many great rec centers and all those other things we talked about today... I mean, this isn't taking something away from somebody. I'm certainly not looking to do that. But just, you know, the business person in me I guess is coming out, although I was never successful in business, but... Don't look at my record when I owned a restaurant. You'll see bankruptcy all over it. But in any event...

Mr. Richard

I'm going to let Bill 17 talk a little bit, but I have to go on record to say that this is a queen gem of this City. We're very fortunate. We neglected to put, and I neglected to put in my testimony that this camp just won an award that was only awarded to four or five overnight camps out of almost 2400, an international award because The Peace 393 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Award. And it is relative to diversity and cultural and environment enrichment. The property, if I can use a quadrant, this property is split almost in perfect quadrants. And I've never seen it from the air, from an aerial view. I have driven every inch of all 671 acres. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But excuse me for interrupting. We're not using all 671.

Mr. Richard

Right. So that's what I'm going to get to. I believe that, you know, what Councilman Nutter has said, what you've presented as well, that was part of the challenge that I presented to Bill and Mike -- and it might not be two months ago that we discussed this -- to look at the logging and also to have the property assessed. I would like to see the City put into a position because they have enough land, that not only it could be considered to do what you're talking about. And we could do it without disrupting the camp, 394 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 and have it that far away, and also the possibility of still... And I'm not doing a commercial. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You're talking about subdividing the property so it wouldn't interfere with... And that's a win-win for everybody. There's no question about that.

Mr. Richard

And so you know, Your Honor, so I can further help you, there's a highway. And I don't know the name of the road. But we own... As a matter of fact, there's an intersection. We own all four parcels of that intersection. So, it can be done. Not only that; we could even approach Marriott, Hilton or somebody that's in the corporate resort business to say, we want you to look at this. Would you want to do a feasibility study for the City of Philadelphia? Would it be profitable for your company to partner with the City and build a commercial, 12-month, year-around corporate resort facility? 395 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 That's how much property that we own. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, I would suggest that the conversation begin with the gaming industry because that's where the big big bucks are. And you can probably just... You know, off the top of my head, even if it wasn't a straight-out sale, if you did some sort of a long-term lease, the revenue stream, assuming it works for the gaming industry, that the site fits. And, you know, this may all be moot at some point because the site doesn't work. But if it did, if it did, you would have a revenue stream that would take care of all your problems in the Department of Rec. We could probably handle all of the problems that we had with the cultural and the arts institutions that we're talking about cutting. I think that we have to start -- as a City, have to start looking. And that's a great asset. I'm not talking about 396 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 selling any portions of Fairmount Park, before I get in trouble. But I'm just talking about a facility that is many, many miles away that serves a good purpose. But there could be a very win-win situation here for all of us. And I think it's something we should have on the front burner.

Mr. Richard

Thank you. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you, Councilman. Councilman, before you made the statement, I said to Mr. McPherson, this would probably be an ideal place for the gaming commission to be looking at because they're talking about, I assume. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Assuming that the lot size --

Council President Verna

Do you know if there are any deed restrictions?

Mr. Mifflin

Council President, I did mention that, that there are some. 397 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 We've just begun with the City Solicitor's Office looking into this issue. You may remember that this was once property opened by Girard College. And so, I think back in the early 1950s it was given by the College to the City of Philadelphia. It was originally Camp Happy, I think, and became Camp William Penn. So, it has a long history. I don't... The cursory review, I don't see any major issues from a deed restriction that would prohibit the types of things that we're talking about here. I wouldn't want people to leave today thinking that we've got the 671 acre facility, and let's put aside 100 acre of summer camp, and the other 570 could be developed in casinos or something, because the topography and the environmental issues and the ingress and the egress, it just... It wouldn't work. Having said that, I think there probably is a portion that we should -- 398 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Council President Verna

I think we should definitely be looking at that.

Mr. Mifflin

Thank you.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Madam Chair, thanks. I've been there. I went and visited it. It is as far off the beaten trail, boy, just -- It's an education just getting onto the road that gives you access to it. It's like... You feel like you're LeMans. It's not a place that I'd want to go play the slots. But welcome the new director. But I can tell you that I know camping is supposed to be rough and tumble, but when I went and visited and spent the day -- I met Fred and Fred, by the way. And they gave us the little goodies to take home with us. It was really in disrepair. The mattresses were beat up. I understand after my visit we got some new mattresses. Some of the City vehicles that were 399 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 there were... Probably they should have been at the auction maybe five years ago. It was really... You could see it was where everything -- all the hand-me-downs were. The director at the time would take the bed linens to the prison to get them washed, drive them all the way to the jail. I would hope that every time a car -- one of the vehicles that breaks, I hope we have a relationship with a car dealer, the Ford store up there, where we don't have to drive the car all the way back to Fleet Management, take the laundry to the prison, fix some -- The showers were so dirty at the time, that I think if any of the parents saw it, they'd be troubled by having their kids there. So I'm talking about... You know, it's a place -- It's rough. You're not supposed to be going to Four Seasons. But it was... They even used their own lumber. They cut the trees down to fix the floors in many of the areas, where little 400 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 lean-to's, whatever they call them, were. So there was a lot of creativity done by the staff that worked there. But I think that something really needs to change there. And if it means possibly some day not having that as part of our inventory and doing something differently or trading -- You know, we talked about this trade-off. Maybe there's somebody that would like to have all that acreage for something smaller and we could make a few bucks or create a camp right here within the Fairmount Park. I don't know. We're just brainstorming here today. But I can tell you that I was disappointed to see that we didn't maximize on the number of encampments that we could have. And I don't know if you've done that, you've used every available day out of school. I know there were two encampments short, I think one at the beginning and one at the end, at least at the time that I 401 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 visited. So I hope you're getting the maximum out of it at this point. But it's fun. It's great for the City to say they have this facility. But I think it really needs to be looked at hard because we've got employees, we've got vehicles, we've got expenses. And it's a luxury that maybe we might not be able to hang onto for too much longer.

Mr. Richard

I appreciate... And I take notes of everything that you say. I would also like to take the opportunity to talk about my personal use of the facility and also the investment that the City has made. A couple years ago, as recent as two years ago, you're correct on the bedding and some of the other items. The year before last we had a major, I guess, working retreat where we had 72 employees from the department that volunteered to go up. We paid them their regular time, fed them. We had a ball. And I believe if you go back and 402 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 take a look at the camp now, you have a different opinion on outlook. We totally changed all of the bedding of the camp. We had done almost all of the new washers and dryers. I think we have enough new roofing material now to do all of the roofs twice, and that was just as recent as this past winter. So, yes, there was a lot of work that has to be done. We still believe there is some work to be done. And I also agree with you, Mr. Nutter and Mr. DiCicco that we should continue to look at the possibility of using the facility in a different capacity, to make real revenue. So, thank you. And thank you for your leadership there, sir.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you.

Mr. Richard

Also I want to say that we have all new boats coming this year as well. So all of that stuff is being discarded. And we are having new canoes, rowboats and everything delivered this 403 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 summer.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, what about my one observation, at least at the time, that there were some opportunities that weren't being utilized, whether it was funding or whether it was just management at the time? Is every opportunity this summer, is there an encampment.

Mr. Richard

I'll let Michael answer that. I want to say I'm very comfortable with Michael and Bill, and the direction that they're going in. But... Michael.

Mr. Shelton

Councilperson Rizzo, having worked at Camp William Penn since 1987 --

Councilman Rizzo

Can't hear you.

Mr. Shelton

I'm sorry. Having worked at Camp William Penn since 1987, I can agree with some of the statements you made about the condition of the camp in the past. When I started there, camp was all 404 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 summer long. It began the end of June and ended the end of August. And we had four groups of kids who would come up for two weeks at a time.

Councilman Rizzo

Four?

Mr. Shelton

Four. Presently... That changed in the early '90s and it got lowered down to four groups of kids coming up for eight days at a time. And it has stayed at that point. And that was mainly done due to budgetary problems back then, that they reduced the number of -- the encampment. And that's where it stays to this point, at four encampments eight days apiece. Could we extend it? Possibly.

Councilman Rizzo

Is there an advantage... Is there anything that you're not accomplishing with the short encampment?

Mr. Richard

Well, one of the things -- And it's too late. But in our last planning meeting, I threw a challenge 405 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 to Michael and Bill to take a look at instead of having the three eight days, the possibility of toying and looking with creating one, maybe two more five-day encampments, that we could attract more children, and especially when they leaving home for the first time. And I believe that's what Michael was saying, that it used to be two weeks. Now it's one five and it's eights. And we also have to stay abreast of the change in society, and also the services that we provide, in order to get full utilization. So you're right on track. And those are the things that we're working with.

Councilman Rizzo

That visit was one of the more valuable. To be able to say I saw it, I walked it. And I know exactly as you are describing it. And I would encourage more people, adults, to see that facility because I was quite impressed with everything that I saw there. Thank you, Madam Chair. 406 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasko.

Councilwoman Tasco

I don't have any questions about Camp William Penn. I had to leave the chambers to go to a meeting. I still had a question for Mr. Richard about the selection process for closing rec centers, so I will yield if someone else has a question about Camp William Penn.

Council President Verna

No. I think you're the last one to be recognized.

Councilwoman Tasco

Last fall I met with the Capital Program Office and the Planning Commission. And they informed me that the capital improvements would be made at Fisher Park this spring. And during the April 5th Capital Budget and Program hearing, my office spoke with Karen Borski and her staff. And they stated that the bids for the improvements 407 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 would be going out in the spring. So now you tell me that you're getting ready to close Fisher Park. Have you spoken with the Planning Commission or the Capital Programs Office, and are you all coordinating these closings? And if we're going to close it, why are we going to do the improvements to the park?

Mr. Richard

Your Honor, I appreciate that. I am familiar with the money -- as a matter of fact, that money was just awarded. It may be a year. If it hadn't been a year, that... Yes; and we are working with Capital, and we also are working with the Planning Commission. I have been really pushing to have the Capital -- the Planning Commission more out front in the process which I want to say that Maxine, along with her entire team, have been stepping up to that because this is really what we need, the Planning Commission saying, okay, we got this building here. Do we build another one or 408 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 do we tear down this type of building and continue to do it? And that's what the Planning Commission is stepping up to do. So, I appreciate that. I made a commitment -- and I'm sorry you had to leave -- that Thursday I will have the list -- supposedly the list -- typed and presented to Madam Chair Thursday by lunch time, and it will all be on there.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, we got a list today. Does that mean it's going to change?

Mr. Richard

It is -- I'm not foreseeing it to change at all. But everything that was handwritten or whatever, all of that stuff will be formally typed up.

Councilwoman Tasco

But my question is: Should the Fairmount Park Commission go ahead with the renovations at Fisher Park, if you're planning to close it? That's a waste of money.

Mr. Richard

And I agree. Right now, because we don't have any definitive 409 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 if it is going to close or not, a lot of the projects, we're having them put on hold, to see if the process -- where the money can be reappropriated somewhere else.

Councilwoman Tasco

So, what do you save by closing Fisher Park?

Mr. Richard

Mostly one full-time staff person.

Councilwoman Tasco

Are you going to lay that person off?

Mr. Richard

I would say no. There is no layoffs right now.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, where would they go?

Mr. Richard

They would be reassigned to another facility, and the rest of the layoffs will -- The rest of the... position statements that is being required of the department would be absorbed through people retiring through attrition.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, have you taken into consideration the community that it services? And who would maintain that 410 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 park? And who would provide the program services in that park?

Mr. Richard

Madam Councilwoman, if I may say that I appreciate you bringing it up. That facility is probably four or five blocks from my home. I spent about an hour or an hour and a half there Saturday myself with the fantastic day with the community. We had Grover Washington, Jr. Middle School band out there playing. They had people -- kids running. I am very aware and concerned of what you're presenting as well. Yeah. I appreciate it.

Councilwoman Tasco

All right. Thank you.

Mr. Richard

It is very challenging and also very... I guess for a different term painful as well, based on the City's fiscal status. Where will we end? I don't know. I'd like to get there as well. The role and the responsibility that I have is to the entire City. 411 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 I understand my role directly to Recreation. And I also have to make sure that the stuff that I present meets national standards as far as where are we, as far as the per capita, the types of buildings, so that we can have at least an educated formal process.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, let me ask you a question. How many people are on the list to retire who are recreation leaders?

Mr. Richard

I'd have to see if my staff still has that. I can -- I can tell you off the top of my head right now... No. I have the numbers in front of me. Hang on. That it's 55 employees, and that is full-time employees. There are 17 part-time permanent employees that we would have to not replace or lay off. I want to say at the present we have 42 full-time vacancies that we have not replaced as of yet, that if we have to adopt what is presented, 42 of the 55 are already vacant. 412 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 So I... And I mentioned early on that one of my biggest concerns is, in working with this budget and with this process, that I do not lay off one permanent employee. And so far I've achieved that. I... I need my employment as well, so I'm very sensitive of that.

Councilwoman Tasco

So you're saying you have how many people that are leaving?

Mr. Richard

Right now, in order to meet this budget, in full-time positions there's 55 positions, permanent full-time that we would have to eliminate. And right now 42 are vacant. And in the part-time permanent ranks there is 17 positions that we would have to meet.

Councilwoman Tasco

So you need 52 positions to meet your budget requirement.

Councilwoman Tasco

55.

Mr. Richard

55 Permanent full-time, 17 permanent part-time; and the number with seasons, with the pools and the 413 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 camps, that number would be 535.

Councilwoman Tasco

So in essence we don't have too much of a summer recreation program.

Mr. Richard

Yeah, we would still have. It wouldn't be as big. In '04 our budgeted for a seasonal temporary employees was 1778. And we're taking out the 535. That would bring it down to, like, 1261.

Councilwoman Tasco

So if you have 55, but 47 are already vacant...

Councilwoman Tasco

Of the 55.

Mr. Richard

42. Yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Tasco

42.

Mr. Richard

42 of the 55 are vacant now.

Councilwoman Tasco

So you still have 13 people that you have to do something with?

Mr. Richard

Yeah. They would either be through our maintenance unit or through our program. And we had that broken down. As of right now 17 are in 414 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 program, 21 are in maintenance, and open positions are in the Administrative Division. So that would be the rest. And the way, if I have to adopt this budget or work in it, I would address it by the same way presently now. I wouldn't lay off anyone.

Councilwoman Tasco

How many of the people who are of that 52 are recreation leaders?

Mr. Richard

I don't have that off the top of my head. I'm sorry. But I know of those are in the 15 Program Division. But I'd have to look and 16 see. 17

Ms. Coles

My name is Mary Platt Coles. I'm Deputy Commissioner of Recreation Department. If I could add to the Commissioner's remarks here, a response to you, with the budget the way it sits now, the Program Division would have 34 fewer full-time positions. Now, as far as how many of those 415 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 would equate into rec leader positions, I would ask Mr. Carapucci to respond to that, but I would say there would probably be most of them.

Councilwoman Tasco

Did you all discuss how you determine which centers you are going to close, other than not being adequately used or something else? What was the criteria for closing?

Mr. Richard

Give me one second. I have it right in front of me. I had it. I read it earlier. I'm just moving stuff...

Councilwoman Tasco

Could you provide it to us. Councilwoman, while looking for the information, the stenographer would just like a three-minute break. (Brief recess.) MR. McPHERSON: Commissioner, if you have the answer you can...

Mr. Richard

The criteria, age of the facility, we looked at 40 years and older and 30 years and older; the type of material that the building was constructed 416 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 with at that time; and also, emphasizing being maintenance free and practical to the day's technology; design and layout of the facility for practical intended use, taking into consideration the risk and safety as well; the present structural condition of the facility. We took into consideration the usage, being the volume of clients; the proximity; location to another facility and the type of that other facility; and the density of the population -- of the population versus the location of that particular facility. Those are the criteria of the items that we used.

Councilwoman Tasco

And nothing about the relationship of quality of service to the community?

Mr. Richard

Mostly anything relative to that was usage and volume, along with the type. The type of the facility would dictate a lot of... The layout and the amenities that the physical plant offered would dictate the quality and 417 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the type of usage. So, just to have a bullet to take a look at, was it just used by itself? All of those were taken into consideration, all... What is it? Seven bullets, seven criteria factors that we use.

Councilwoman Tasco

So how would you characterize Fisher Park?

Mr. Richard

I'd have to get that information back in my office. But, yeah. Is it -- Is it used? It's used, but it's more used, from my knowledge, as a passive. It's programmed very little. The type of park it is, I know it has a ball field down at the bottom. We just put in a community garden last year which, once again, I participated in, cutting and digging and planting the flowers. But that facility is more of a passive facility and non-program. And that's mainly due to its past use and also the type of building. If it was a preexisting building 418 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 that had more amenities, an auditorium, a gymnasium, a dance studio, it would be ranked, then, a higher used or as we deem an A facility. But, yes, it still has value. So it's not to get rid of the park. Our thing would be to... We look at the savings that we could possibly recuperate to add back towards this $4 million from the non-program and having the employee there permanent year round.

Councilwoman Tasco

Has the park been permanently officially transferred to the Recreation Department yet?

Mr. Richard

Yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay. Then why is the Fairmount Park doing the work there?

Mr. Richard

It was already in place with the grant funding, but we're working -- we're working side by side on the design work, when it will get done and everything else. So, we're working together. We -- We were out there working together Saturday. 419 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay. And I asked a question. You were going to answer it. Thank you.

Mr. Carapucci

Councilwoman, if... The way the present budget is proposed, there will be 34 full-time people, not in the Program Division, less next year. There's right now. There's 17 10 vacancies right now. So, there will be an 11 additional 17. And hopefully, that will 12 come through attrition. And 17 permanent 13 part-time also. 17 vacancies now permanent 14 part-time, and they wouldn't be filled. 15

Councilwoman Tasco

All the 16 Recreation Centers that are presently open 17 have recreation leaders?

Mr. Carapucci

Correct. Every programmed recreation center -- I would say 99 percent of them -- have a full-time rec leader.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay.

Mr. Carapucci

And you have one there at Fisher Park. He's full-time.

Councilwoman Tasco

Right. But 420 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 you're saying of the ones that are already in existence, so many of those are going to leave; is that true?

Mr. Carapucci

We don't know if 6 are going to leave this coming fiscal year 7 through attrition. The Personnel Office 8 will have to give us an approximate number. 9 I don't think it's that high. 10 This past year it was high because 11 this was the first year of the DROP plan. 12 I don't know if next year -- I don't think 13 next year will be as high. 14 And our goal is not to have any 15 layoffs, hopefully. So, that -- But the 16 number, according to our budget, is 34. 17

Councilwoman Tasco

So if you close Fisher Park, where you would you put the rec leader?

Mr. Carapucci

Well, what would happen is, if a rec leader, let's say, retired or left from a facility, like a nearby facility, maybe a Morris Estate or a Sturgis, that rec leader would be transferred over to one of the other ones. 421 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilwoman Tasco

So you don't know yet what it looks like, in terms of retirement for next year.

Mr. Carapucci

We don't have an exact picture, no. 7

Mr. Richard

We do have a listing -- and I don't know if we have the listing with us -- of the people that are scheduled to retire. But, yes, we do have an idea. I'm sorry I don't have it. Do we have our anticipated DROP list with us?

Ms. Coles

We have people 15 leaving next year. I don't have that list 16 with me, but we have identified nine 17 positions not to fill through DROP savings. 18 Not a one of them is a rec leader position. At this time.

Councilwoman Tasco

I guess I'm trying to figure out how you decide to close my center and put the staff person in another center, and you don't know yet whether you need them.

Mr. Richard

That we don't know yet 422 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 if we need them on that?

Councilwoman Tasco

Mm-hmm. He said that -- You told me that the person would go from Fisher Park someplace else; you're not going to lay that person off, right?

Mr. Richard

Our goal is not to lay off any employee, that's correct.

Councilwoman Tasco

All right. So that if you close Fisher Park, where do you put that employee?

Mr. Richard

We would evaluate in your District any facility where the next person would either retire or people transfer out or they just leave and take other jobs. And we would -- we would assign him or her to another facility in your District or maybe in another Councilperson's District, to one of the facilities that would still be recommended to be operating and open.

Councilwoman Tasco

You all are coming back, right? 423 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Richard

Yeah. I have some documents that I have to present to you all on Thursday morning. I'll have them.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you. I'll have some other questions for you then.

Mr. Richard

Thank you, Madam.

Councilwoman Blackwell

As there are no further questions, any further comments? (No response.)

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very much.

Mr. Richard

Thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Atwater Kent Museum, you are next. Good afternoon. Thank you for your patience. Good afternoon. Feel free to identify yourself for the record and begin your testimony.

Ms. Sand

Councilman Blackwell, I am Vickie Sand. President Verna, I am Vickie Sand, Director of the Atwater Kent -- 424 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Council President Verna

Excuse me. Before you start, we do have copies of your testimony. It will be given to the stenographer. It will be transcribed in full. So if you could abbreviate, we would really appreciate it.

Ms. Sand

Well, this is the second year that I've come on at about exactly the same moment.

Council President Verna

Same time.

Ms. Sand

Or the second time, a year ago. And I appreciate all of the hard work that you've done. And let me just make very brief remarks and summarize. I'd like to also mention that David Rasner, former President of the Board of Trustees is here and currently the Mayor's representative on the Board. We are here to advocate for restoration of funds to the fiscal year 2004 level. All of us associated with the Atwater Kent Museum appreciate the difficult financial issues facing the City, 425 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 and we respect the competing interests that the Council must balance. We are appreciative of the leadership provided by Councilwoman Reynolds Brown and Councilman Kelly, to find a level of support for cultural institutions in this City, in order that the arts community can make the contribution it can to the vitality of the City, to its educational purposes, and to its -- and for its financial benefits. We are here to say that elimination of City funds, total elimination of City funds for the Atwater Kent is disproportionate. If allowed to stand, it brings to an end a public-private partnership that's been in place in this City since 1938, and it also puts an end to a collaborative relationship. For the past three years, when the City and the Board of Trustees really worked to have worked to create a vibrant Atwater Kent that's a part of 426 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Philadelphia's heritage tourism campaign. The public-private partnership that's been established has really been essential. These six key positions, what they've done is we've -- they now represent about one-third of the museum's budget. We generate two-thirds of our budget through private funds. Let me just briefly recount some of those. The museum took possession of the Historical Society of Pennsylvania collection, now numbering -- and created a collection -- now number a hundred thousand items. Those two positions support that work. And separately, then, we were able to raise $250,000 privately. So not one additional dollar of City funds went to support taking on that important collection. We have private -- We have also totally moved into the 21st century, in terms of technology, by using the MOIS, the office of MOIS and the Recreation 427 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Department, and then generating over $300,000 for that, and most recently a modest amount of money from the Recreation Department. And I want to applaud Commissioner Richard and his staff for the work they've done to renovate at a cost of about $40,000 -- we raised $150,000 -- so that we could have a space that really allowed for a new presentation of this great collection and also what we are calling the Philadelphia Game. I want to make just one last comment, and then we'll respond to whatever question you have. We, too, were cut by the City's School District, their teacher program. That happened about two years ago. And through much of the 30 or 35 years, schools came to the Atwater Kent. We went to the Federal Government and received one of 12 grants in the State of Pennsylvania and one of 169 across the country, to integrate our programs around what we're calling the Philadelphia Game 428 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 with the public schools. We have been invited to participate with the Office of Curriculum and Instruction and Professional Development, to build our program into the new social studies curriculum. We believe that we have operated and responded to what the challenge was of the City Council, to begin to develop a public-private partnership. And we think that is coming to fruition, and that the cuts at this point would really negate a very significant investment that the City has made, and that we are in fact returning to the City. The very last comment is that we -- And who is our audience? Who comes to the Atwater Kent? We have begun to do a series of preliminary visitor surveys.

Ms. Sand

And what I can tell you is that those figures reflect that 52 percent are from Philadelphia or the region. And the most surprising of all is that 57 percent are between the ages of 25 and 40. They're 429 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 new people in the City, and they're young families. We are attracting Philadelphians and a new generation who want to learn about the greatness of the City. And we hope that you will consider the museum's request as part of a broader request by the cultural community.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Let me ask you a question, if I may. Did the Administration meet with you and discuss the fact that they were planning on eliminating the City's support for the museum?

Ms. Sand

No. We did hear about this eight days in advance of the -- about eight days in advance.

Council President Verna

So you have had no discussion at all with anyone from the Administration.

Ms. Sand

(Shakes head in the negative).

Council President Verna

Other than eight days ago, eight days prior to the 430 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 budget presentation; is that what you're saying?

Council President Verna

If the reduction were to stand, would it threaten the very existence of the museum?

Ms. Sand

We are a different organization today than we were ten years ago. Ten years ago the museum was fully funded by the City. We now are one-third funded by the City. This is critical support in all of the ways that you've heard spoken about. These are core staff positions. We do use it for matching money for grants and other kinds of aide. And we also... There is the issue if the City doesn't support the City's museum, where there's a 66-year relationship, why should we? And I think that... So, will it -- will it -- Is it a death blow? No. But it is a very, very difficult circumstance at the moment, when the City has invested so 431 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 much in having it really come to fruition in the way we want it. David may want to comment.

Mr. Rasner

I'd like to have -- I mean, the City --

Council President Verna

Excuse me. Have you identified yourself?

Mr. Rasner

Yes. Vickie identified me. David Rasner. I've been on the Board of Trustees for quite some time. I am currently the Mayor's appointee to the museum -- I served as the Mayor's appointee under Mayor Rendell, and have managed to retain that august title and situation -- and former Chairman of the Board of the Atwater Kent. And this is the City's history museum. And the City, I believe, has a fundamental responsibility to support its own museum. We don't ask for much. In fact, as Vickie said, when -- years ago we were fully funded by the City. Now we're one-third funded by the City. The rest is 432 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 private and corporate gifts, and other grants that we receive. If the City doesn't fund its own museum, we'll be in a very difficult position of securing funds from others because foundations always ask us, if the City doesn't support you, who will. You asked also -- I remember you asking the Art Museum a question, in terms of what is their legal relationship with the City. And I fought for the Atwater Kent. Back in 1938 there was an Ordinance that was passed and adopted by City Council that said that upon the condition of the gift being made by Mr. Kent which, when he purchased the former Franklin Institute and gave it to the City as the history museum, the City would agree to maintain the building as a showcase for objects, and so forth, as well as maintain the building itself. And that was an Ordinance adopted by the City of Philadelphia July 28th of 1938. And I have copies here, if you wish 433 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 it.

Council President Verna

You've done your homework.

Mr. Rasner

We have. I take my job seriously, and so does Vickie. And I believe it's a small price to pay. I mean, it's a museum that's worthy of support. And we've taken the charge from Mayor Rendell very seriously. Privatize yourselves. Okay. The operating funds which we are losing will support seven employees, I believe.

Mr. Rasner

Six. Six employees. Okay. The rest of the staff. I think you have a staff of what? 14? Okay. We have 8 private employees; 6 are City funded, whereas years ago every staff member was a City employee. So we've done our homework. And we're at a critical juncture in our history. And although this would not be a 434 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 death knell for the museum, it would be a serious body blow from which I don't think we could recover.

Council President Verna

We understand fully, believe me. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. I believe you said at best. And I wrote down here the quote, the City has a responsibility to support its own museum. The sentiments I shared during the testimony of the Philadelphia Art Museum, and the collective sentiments of all of my colleagues, the cuts as they currently stand are unacceptable. And again, the investment that comes from what we get from the arts: Stack the arts against the sports stadiums, stack the arts with the hospitality industry, what that means for the industry. It's essential that we, as members of this body, re-look at the cuts as they 435 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 are currently proposed. So, all of us have pledged that we will. We believe, again, that the cuts should be restored. And you have my commitment and pledge that we will continue over the next short weeks to change what currently exists on paper. Thank you for your testimony.

Mr. Rasner

We thank you for your efforts, Councilwoman, immensely.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Any other questions from members of the Committee? Thank you so much for your patience. You've been sitting here all day. We fully understand.

Mr. Rasner

We had no choice.

Council President Verna

But we fully understand. Thank you.

Mr. Rasner

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you so much.

Council President Verna

Okay. 436 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Philadelphia Prisons is next. I will ask you to identify yourself for the record. And I will reiterate what I said to our previous witness. We do have copies of your testimony.

Council President Verna

It will be given to the stenographer. It will be transcribed in full. I would ask you to please abbreviate your testimony.

Mr. King

Okay. Good morning, Madam President. I'm Leon King, Commissioner of Prisons. If you just give me 30 seconds to pull something out of my bag, I'll be ready to go.

Council President Verna

Okay.

Mr. King

Good afternoon again. To my left is seated Deputy Commissioner Allen Appel. He's the Deputy Commissioner for for Treatment. And to my right our Fiscal Office, Mr. Semansky. I really will sort of wrap things up in maybe three sentences, to add to the statement that we've given up for the 437 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 official record. And just to indicate for everyone, that we are moving forward at the Philadelphia Prisons, trying to be pro-active to a lot of the issues that are facing the system, and a lot of issues that are facing the City. And the primary areas that we're focusing on are reentry and rehabilitation, and improving those services in the prison, as a matter of fiscal restraint and public safety, as well as looking at our management services and our medical services. And if you have any questions about any of those things, I'm right here. And I would open the floor for questions.

Council President Verna

Thank you. I'll be very brief. You state in your testimony that PPS is in the process of obtaining accreditation for the National Commission on Correctional Health Care?

Council President Verna

438 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Accreditation will be a step towards stemming the rising costs of inmate medical and behavioral health services. What is the accreditation process and how will it help you to stabilize your inmate health care costs?

Mr. King

Well, first I'd just like to explain the National Commission on Correctional Health Care is a organization that came under the American Medical Association back in the '70s. And they accredit prisons and jails around the country, in regard to how we deliver medical services. The process works wherein they've come a few months back, did a mock survey of our services, and they're coming back in June, I believe, to take a survey to find out whether or not we meet the national standards. Using national standards streamlines our services and makes it more cost effective because we have standardized things that we do across our correctional 439 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 facilities. And it creates more of an atmosphere where we're able to measure what we do, as opposed to just sort of doing it. And when you measure what you do, and you have some clearly defined expectations for your contractors and people who work for you, that enables you to make decisions that allow you to save money. And that's the general picture.

Council President Verna

Thank you. What are you projecting to spend on inmate health care in FY '05?

Mr. King

I believe that in FY '04 the projection was $43 million. What's the current projection?

Mr. Semansky

FY '05?

Council President Verna

'05.

Mr. Semansky

It's... FY '05 would be $45.3 million, plus $2 million that's funded from the Health Department budget, $2,045,000. That would be a total of $47 million.

Council President Verna

$47 440 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 million?

Council President Verna

You mentioned the additional $250,000 that the City is investing towards prisoners' reentry efforts in FY '05. Where is the additional $250,000 budgeted?

Mr. King

Specifically for what programs?

Council President Verna

Just says $250,000 that the City is investing toward prisoner reentry efforts.

Mr. King

As I understand it, that money is a block grant that we got by way of MOCS. And we're going to be spending that on what we call our jobs project. It's going to be funding two -- continuation of two contracts with the Pennsylvania Prison Society and Impact services, to provide after care for inmates who have gone through our jobs training program, to assist them in gaining and retaining employment.

Council President Verna

Are they 441 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 additional services?

Mr. King

No. The way that those started -- I was here yesterday when you asked about the Jackson_vs._Hendrick fund. They started out of that fund. It's not a re-occurring fund. So the plan was to get these programs up and running, to see if we could make an argument about maybe getting more City funding if we could show they were saving money. And this MOCS money allows to us continue it because the money in Jackson is only a one-time amount of money.

Council President Verna

All right. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. The follow-up question that was posed to your deputy last week, around the issue of using MOCS dollars for job treatment, job training, was why not... Or has there been consideration to approach 442 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the Philadelphia Workforce Development Corporation which has millions and millions of dollars for that particular service and thereby allows MOCS to free up those dollars and use them for... in some other way?

Mr. King

I know we've had preliminary discussions over the last year, and even before that, with the Philadelphia Workforce Development Corporation. And we hadn't been successful as of yet, as I understand it, in working out any sort of arrangement with them. But Mr. Appel --

Councilwoman Brown

You say you have not been successful?

Mr. King

Correct, but Mr. Appel has an update on that.

Councilwoman Brown

Good afternoon

Mr. Appel

Hi. When I checked on what the answer was to that issue, PWDC funds, what's known as the must work program...

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. 443 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Appel

...when a woman who is eligible for TANIF goes beyond months, 4 that's when the requirement to work 20 5 hours a week is made to that -- to the 6 woman. 7 And that's what the PWDC money is 8 spent on, to pay the minimum wage for those 9 20 hours. But they do not pay for the 10 actual job training. 11

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. And as 12 you have described it, that would not be an 13 appropriate fit for those leaving? 14

Mr. Appel

That's right. 15

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. 16

Mr. Appel

That's right. 17

Councilwoman Brown

That certainly 18 explains it. 19 Speak to me, if you will, 20 regarding... Well, first of all, 21 recognizing that the number of women 22 entering and leaving our prisons has gone 23 through the roof, what type of adjustments 24 have been made in programming, with regards to making sure when they leave they have a 444 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 place to go, some reconnect with their children. And I share that because I'm in discussions with the leadership of the Black Clergy. And there is concern about the disconnect that appears to be happening with the number of women who leave prisons, and really only have what's on their back when they stand on the corner on State Road to return to a normal life.

Mr. King

I just want to address the global picture about that, and let Mr. Appel and maybe Warden Gainey come up and talk about the other services that we have for women. We met as recently as two and a half weeks ago, maybe two weeks ago with Commissioner Martinez in Department of Human Services.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. King

In an effort to bolster what we're calling the Reentry Oversight Board that we have at the prison. And the goal of that entity is to 445 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 bring together all the agencies, entities, and people in the City of Philadelphia who are interested in this issue of reentry because there are a lot of groups and folks who have absolutely no idea who the Philadelphia prisons are, who we have there, what programs we have already.

Councilwoman Brown

Sure.

Mr. King

And we need to be supplemented in those things. So, we have this board that has met about four times. We have representatives from most of the interconnecting City departments, who I met with Commissioner Martinez to get someone from her shop on that group. And part of the conversation that we had was recognition of the fact that we have a lot of females in custody who are mothers. We actually have men in custody, as well, who are fathers.

Councilwoman Brown

Sure.

Mr. King

Whose kids are, you know, in the custody of DHS or foster care, and 446 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 that part of the successful reentry and making it -- the chances less that they're going to come back to us, is making sure that they are, you know, they're reconnected with their families. And we need to start facilitating that inside the jails. So one of the things we talked about with Commissioner Martinez when we opened the new female facility, which we hope to open in the beginning of July, is actually stationing someone physically up on the prison campus from the Department of Human Services, most specifically, at the new women's facility, to sort of facilitate these issues of reunification and reentry before the folks leave the jails. And I'll let Deputy Commissioner Appel supplement that, about some of the programming. And if you would like, we can have Warden Gainey come up and talk about what we're doing at the new facility.

Mr. Appel

We have a number of 447 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 programs that are specifically aimed at the woman that we house, and the relationship between them and their children. We have three separate agencies, including DHS, that run parenting programs. We have a family therapy program. The 250,000 from the block grant...

Councilwoman Brown

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Appel

...will be spent for two contractors that work specifically with women, one of them the People's Emergency Center.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. The People's Emergency Center.

Mr. Appel

Specializes with helping the homeless women and their children.

Councilwoman Brown

Sure. Who's the other?

Mr. Appel

The other is a group called Top...

Councilwoman Brown

Top Win.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Appel

Which -- Which -- Which 448 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 provides non-traditional job training, mostly in the building trades.

Councilwoman Brown

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Appel

We have programs from the Women's Resource Center, a Lutheran Family Services, a program called Kids and Kin which is run by the Philadelphia Society to Protect Children, a child care program. So, there are a number of things that we have just for the women, that are specifically aimed at improving the relationship between the women and their children. We know that that's a critical issue because the children of inmates are six times more likely to grow up and become inmates than children of non-inmates. And unless we make some change in that process, we're only creating or we are seeing the creation of the next generation of...

Councilwoman Brown

Prisoners

Mr. Appel

...of inmates. 449 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 And so, the parenting, especially those that look at child abuse and the child abuse prevention, are things that we work hard at.

Councilwoman Brown

I appreciate knowing that you have -- And I'm familiar with all of these programs; have visited a few of them. What kind of assurances, if any, exist so that women do not fall through the cracks? Because women are still falling through the cracks. How new is this -- are these partnerships? Is it a recent recognition of this reality? Which is a good thing. But if you could just speak to what kind of assurances we have in place that catch those few women that fall through the cracks. Because one woman is one woman too many who is trying to get back with her children.

Mr. Appel

Absolutely. The programs that we have for women have been expanding every year. It is a population 450 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 that groups in the community want to work with.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Appel

So, of the programs that I've spoken about, there are some that we've had for a number of years, some that are new. But the problem that we have is that there are so many programs that want to work with the women, that we have to find the room.

Councilwoman Brown

I see.

Mr. Appel

To make that all happen.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Councilwoman, do you mind withholding --

Councilwoman Brown

Yeah

Council President Verna

-- some of your questions until the second go-around?

Councilwoman Brown

Sure.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, 451 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Madam President. I wanted to thank our Commissioner not only for his patience, but as I said to him earlier, they have many important programs that are relevant to the needs in today's world in trying to help this population. Many of us accept the fact that people go back to the communities from whence they have come. And we've got to have people who are better prepared to be acclimated into the life of those communities. And we thank him for his realization of this, and his commitment to helping people enter into a return home from their prison stay. Thanks, Commish.

Mr. King

Thanks for the compliment.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos.

Councilman Ramos

Thank you, Madam 452 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Chair. And I want to also congratulate Commissioner Leon King for being our Prison Commissioner. I want to just ask you a few questions. I held some hearings on the reality of unemployment in Philadelphia in the Committee of Labor and Civil Service. And the Prison Society and others came to testify before that committee. Councilwoman Reed Miller had joined me in making sure that we got representation from the ex-offenders' community. And I was struck by data that was presented us, that something like 70,000 or more ex-offenders will be released within the next year in the State of Pennsylvania. And the big question around those hearings was this question: What is the community going to do with 70 some thousand ex-inmates coming back into society? And I thought it was appropriate because this was a hearing on the reality of unemployment. And that took us into a 453 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 couple hours of discussion and public testimony on the need for us to have more programs available, more jobs available to this huge inmate ex-offender population. Can you talk to us, Commissioner, a little bit more about what programs you have. You know, what else can we possibly do to get a percentage of that population back into the workforce, what kind of programs you have now, what other things are you looking for? I was mentioning that you were not getting anywhere with a proposal -- correct me if I'm wrong -- in the Workforce Development Corporation. And can you shed some light on the decision, please?

Mr. King

I'll say two things. One is an overall thing about what the community can do and what the City Council can do, you know. And one of the things I think we need to do is sort of change people's attitudes. If I go to the Philadelphia 454 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Workforce Development Corp. or I go here and I go there, if I'm advocating for inmates, I usually get an attitude that I think I would like to change; otherwise, we're never going to get anywhere on this issue. And the attitude that I think I would like to change is, for those 78,000 or 80,000 folks that you said are coming out of State Department of Corrections, that's what happens to most of the inmates who are arrested and convicted. They go to the State DOC, they come to the Philadelphia prisons, and they're released back to the community. One of the schools I spoke at the other day, we had some mothers there whose kids had been killed and with guns and in gun violence in the City. And I got up and was talking about this. And one of the things that we need to change is, for most people who get arrested for gun crimes in the City, they don't end up killing people. 455 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 The ones that kill people, we get them; we put them in jail for life; we don't have to worry about them. But the rest of them, they get convicted. They go mostly to the State Department of Corrections. and they come back into the neighborhoods. And we know, from our correctional sort of experience, that one of the things that insures that these folks or helps them along to going back to a life of crime is lack of jobs and lack of housing. So people have to sort of change their attitude and say, you know, once you've gone through prison, you've gone through a program, you've indicated that you have a desire or a need to change, when they come back out we have to get people's attitudes changed so that they're willing to employ them. And that will sort of, hopefully, filter down into PWDC and places like that who just sort of wonder, why are you here asking for money for inmates? 456 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Well, why am I here? Because we recognize the fact that recidivism and inmates going in and out of the jail costs us a lot of money, number one. But we're here today to talk about budgets and money. Two, it also makes the City an unsafe place because if you have the guy who's arrested, he goes to the State DOC for doing a begun crime; he comes back out; he doesn't get a job; and he goes that gun crime again, the person's who's the victim of that crime the second time is somebody who lives in the City. So it's essential that we start thinking about that, and changing people's attitudes. We have several programs, I would say, in the prison system that address this issue. The one that -- Two of them that I'd like to highlight is one called The Jobs Project, which is developed out of that money from the Jackson settlement fund. And it's a different sort of job program. And maybe Deputy Commissioner 457 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Appel can go into the details. But it's a therapeutic community. So, in other words, these inmates are together on a housing area. They're not mixed with everybody else who has some different agenda. And they're given specific job training skills and counseling on how to do particular things in areas that we know are marketable in society. And so far we're only able to accommodate 200 inmates at a time. We're going to take it up to 400 inmates. And it's different than what we've been doing in the past because we actually contract with folks whose job it is to follow up with these folks, to make sure at the actually get a job. And it sort of floats back to Councilwoman Brown's question make sure about what are you doing to make sure women don't fall through the cracks.

Mr. King

With all these things now, we have companies that we're going to contract with, who have 458 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 performance measures and expectations from the City. It's not going to be a situation any more where we're just dumping money to people to do a job. We want to specifically outline what the job is, what we expect you to do. And if you're not doing it, then we'll get someone else to do the job. So that's one area that I'd like to highlight. We're also going to add to this perspective an element where we're actually instructing the inmates on how to become entrepreneurs. So it means that, you know, you don't have to just come to the jail and, you know, and take the jobs project and be whatever. We can actually give you some help on how to maybe walk the maze of City offices that you need to walk through to create your own business in the City. Or you know, understanding that process, and getting people from the community to help 459 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 us with that. We also have a new program that was also funded out of those Jackson funds, with Aramark Corporation, who provides our food service at the Philadelphia Prisons where we're training inmates in culinary arts and things of that nature, so they know how to do catering and cooking, and things like that. And we're also adding an entrepreneurial piece to that, aren't we, Deputy Commissioner Appel?

Mr. Appel

Yes, we are.

Mr. King

Yes. We are. So that's a place for them to, you know, stand up on their own two feet. And we have a lot of other things that inmates do in the jail, in regard to Phila-core and making stationery. I remember the story you told me about your stationery, and furniture and things of that nature. And we're looking at all of those things. And in the next two, three, four months we're going to be changing those 460 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 around so that we can have a more formal process of getting people employed from those programs. Those programs, a lot of inmates go through. And it's just sort of, you know, if we're lucky enough to hook you up. What I want is a formalized process so that they actually find employment when they're released. And as well, with this reentry oversight committee that I talked about, we're also soliciting people from the business community to be involved in that because, you know, especially with the budget situation that we have, the Prisons can't do it all. The City can't be expected to fund all of this. Businesses in this City make millions and millions of dollars from the people who live and work here. A lot of them get, you know, tax breaks and stadiums, and things of that nature. And I think that they certainly can contribute and help, when it comes to an 461 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 inmate who is discharged from prison. Not all of them. Just the ones that have gone through the programs and indicated a desire to change, and to form partnerships with the prison and the people that we have employed, to facilitate employment upon release.

Councilman Ramos

Can I follow up?

Council President Verna

You'll wait for your second go-around, Councilman

Councilman Ramos

Yes. Yes.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

I'm sorry. This question may have been asked. And if it has been, don't answer it.

Councilwoman Tasco

About the professional services contact for health services, has someone asked that question?

Mr. King

The Council President asked how much it was.

Councilwoman Tasco

Oh. Okay. It 462 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 has grown from $35 million to $45 million?

Mr. King

47 I think we're budgeting this time.

Councilwoman Tasco

What has caused the growth of this.

Mr. King

There's a lot of factors that have caused the growth of that. First of all, it's just the fact that health care costs generally just keep rising across the country. That's one reason. The second reason is, most recently our inmates are getting sicker, so that when they -- You know, when they come to jail, for example, this year our -- I think our dialysis patients were up 400 percent. Inmates who just are mentally ill or they have end stage AIDS or things of that nature, they're sicker. So when they come in and they're sicker, we can't necessarily keep them in the prison system. We have to transport them to a hospital where they need care. So that's the second reason. Another reason is because of increased premiums that we have to pay, 463 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 based on the way the contract is set up for the doctors that work for us, the malpractice insurance that we've had to pay. They're not City employees. So if you're a City employee where you're self insured, we don't have to worry about buying insurance. But the way the contracts are set up now, we have to buy the insurance for the doctors who work at the prison. And that's another reason that the health care costs have increased. Additionally, with just regular employees that work under the medical contract there, their salaries continue to rise, as well as the increases with drug costs. And if you forget what year the $38 million -- I don't know what year that was. But the inmate population has increased, too. So it hasn't been a static number. Those would be the broad-based things that I would say have caused the 464 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 costs of the medical contract to rise. Now, we did just issue a new RFP on April 2nd for medical services. And we've indicated to everybody there that the goal is to be creative. You know, we've had the same company up at the prison, prison health services, I think since 1983. And there's a whole host of reasons why I think it was a good... Good decisions were made, given the circumstances at the time, to keep them that long. But now we've issued an RFP. We've told people costs are an issue, but we've also told them to be creative. And we have a little more time, because in the past it's always been sort of hurry up, we got to get the new contract. We don't have as much time as we want, but we have more time than we normally have. So, we're pretty proud of the fact that we're going to have actually five people who are going to bid on the contract which is more than we had I think 465 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the last two times we put this contract out to bid. And we're going to let them be creative. We're not going to say, come in here PHS, you do the health care. Or come in here PCOM, you do the health care. So, if you want to bid on it, you can partner with anybody you want; come up with any sort of configuration of services and partnerships, to get us the best medical services that we can for the cheapest amount of money. We're also, you know, reserving our right to play with it when the bid comes in. So I'm not saying that we're going to reduce the costs, you know, down to $20 million. But certainly the goal is to, you know, save as much money as possible. And we also have a lot of new management. You heard about the accreditation, and a lot of new management systems that we put in place in the last 15 months, to catch some of this. And I have to say, for the last 466 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 fiscal year, it was really a lot of the catastrophic events. And I just want to use this example I'll bet will stick in your head. You remember the gentleman who got shot over at the Criminal Justice Center because he was trying to catch that Judge? Well, that's one of the reasons medical costs go up. People don't think about this. After he got shot, you know, the police took him -- the sheriffs took him where they have to go.

Mr. King

And then two days later they call us up and they say, Philadelphia Prisons, this is your inmate; come get him. So we go down. We send two officers to have to watch this person on overtime. And then we have to pay the bill. So the man was... I forgot what hospital he was at. He's now transferred to Moss Rehabilitation Center. We have to pay the bill for that. So when you hear about catastrophic 467 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 events that happen to inmates, those types of things, the law requires us to pay the medical bills. So we've had -- In the last year, at least, we've had a lot of sick people. And we have to pay for them.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you, Councilwoman. Commissioner, you said something about being self-insured or self-insurance.

Council President Verna

And I was distracted for the moment. Do you mind repeating that? Because we're going to be facing an issue of self-insurance.

Mr. King

Well, part of the reason that the medical contract costs so much is because the doctors... I think it's just the doctors, and if it's more, someone can correct me. But the medical folks have have to be insured. If they were City employees, like me 468 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 and you, that wouldn't be an issue because the City is self-insured. If someone sued them, we'd just pay out of the indemnities from the Law Department. That's how it works. But since they're not City employees, we have to -- they're contracted to PHS. We pay for their insurance premiums.

Council President Verna

And how many doctors do we have at the present time?

Mr. King

I'm not sure. Miss Kazinsky, how many doctors we have? 21, she believes, but she would have to check.

Councilwoman Tasco

They are on contract?

Mr. King

They are contractors with Prison Health Services. That's part of the thing we thought about maybe, that maybe if we could contract with these lawyers directly -- I mean, with the doctors directly, would the City's self-insurance cover them? 469 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 And I think the answer that I got back would be no. We have have to make them City employees, so we wouldn't have to pay that money.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a couple questions about the reentry program and also the summit, the reentry summit, I think you call it?

Councilwoman Miller

I'd be interested in getting more information on the summit. And as Chair of Council's Committee on Public Safety, I'm particularly interested in this issue and would like to be involved in the summit. With the consultant that you hired to assess the impact of the various inmate programs, what has been the results of that study?

Mr. King

I believe you're talking about Dr. Rosenstein? 470 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilwoman Miller

Well, I don't know. The name is not mentioned in your testimony.

Councilwoman Miller

But it says using the 75,000 of the Jackson.

Mr. King

Yes. That's Dr. Rosenstein. And the main thing that you can put your fingers and hands on that comes out of that is the jobs project that I talked about earlier. He's the driving force behind that.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay.

Mr. King

And, you know, he got it all together and set it all up, and continues to be the driving force behind exploring that. That's the main thing that he has done. And helped us reconfigure some of the stuff for the JEVS Program, and other things, to funnel it into jobs.

Councilwoman Miller

How successful has the Pennsylvania Prison Society and Impact Services been on helping inmates get employed? 471 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. King

Well, so far that's very, very... We just signed those contracts with them. We've just come up with performance measures to measure them by. And it's really too early right now for us to provide any information. But I can assure you that that's what we're going to be expecting from them in the future.

Councilwoman Miller

All right. And so, when each prisoner comes in now, each prisoner has a projected outcome?

Councilwoman Miller

Each prisoner has... Someone actually counsels or sits and evaluates each prisoner and writes up some type of plan.

Mr. King

No, that's not the way it works.

Councilwoman Miller

Are you doing that?

Mr. King

That's not the way it works necessarily. With the jobs project, I'll let Deputy Commissioner Appel explain how those 472 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 inmates are selected for that. But not every inmate that comes through isn't there necessarily long enough for us to do a plan. But I'll let the Deputy Commissioner explain how they're selected for jobs. And I would also let the Councilwoman know that as part of the preparation for the reentry summit, we're reevaluating everything that we do. I'm trying to even alter the intake process, because usually when you come to prison or jail, and we ask you about your medical condition and, you know, your emergency addresses, and all that sort of stuff. But Deputy Commissioner Appel and the treatment folks are developing something, so that we get information about your job history and things of that nature, so that we can actually direct you in a better way than we do now, in regard to reentry. So I'll let the Deputy Commissioner talk about how people are 473 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 selected for jobs.

Mr. Appel

Okay. But just let me tell you that every admission does get an initial interview with one of the treatment employees, at which time they look at any emergency problems. They look at the need for drug treatment, for academic help for job training. But since most of the inmates that we hold are pre-trial, and they are in and out very quickly, we put most of the treatment efforts on to the inmates that are there for a particular sentence. And that's who we target for most of our rehab and reentry programs because we know approximately how long they will be in, and that's who we're really charged with helping.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. All right. Well, what is your population? And how many of those people have been sentenced, have been county sentenced?

Mr. King

We have, I think as of today, 7788 inmates. Generally speaking, 474 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 55 to 60 percent of those people are pre-trial.

Councilwoman Miller

I know that you're going to do some community outreach because, you know, it's the neighbors, it's the neighborhoods, and the people that do need to have an understanding that we have to figure out a way to transition, you know, the inmates back into neighborhoods. And I notice, too, that you talk about... I know my time is up, Council President, but I'll just ask this one last question. You indicate that you want to develop a community coalition in a targeted neighborhood, to assist inmates in their reentry to the community. And I don't want to ask you what neighborhood has been targeted.

Mr. King

We haven't picked one yet.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. All right. But that is something that...

Mr. King

That's part of the -- We 475 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 have a group from Washington that we've contracted for, to do a study on prisoner reentry in Philadelphia, to let us know sort of fresh information about barriers that are faced by inmates. I think they're actually up here next week or the week after, interviewing three or four hundred inmates. And when we've gone through the process of them collecting their data, then we're going to have something called the community round table which is different from the reentry summit, where we pick a neighborhood in the City. And I'm not even -- we haven't even started talking about what neighborhood that will be. And that's one specific thing. But we're also -- We've also created a community outreach office in the prison which is a new thing, where we're going to be -- separate from that -- going out into the community and sort of spreading the word about what we do, how we do it, and 476 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the moral support mostly, that we need from the community, when inmates who have gone through our programs come back into the neighborhood. So a lot of these folks that you see here behind me, even Deputy Commissioner Murphy, are going to be out in the neighborhoods talking to folks.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. Commissioner, you mention in your testimony that you are projecting a stable inmate population in FY '05. Why is your regular overtime requirements so high $18.4 million, which equals 18 percent of your total Class 100 request.

Mr. King

Well, I would say this: I think, as I recall -- and Mr. Semansky will correct me if I'm wrong -- in the budget documents, the overtime has basically been the same, '03... '02, '03, '04, around $18 million. 477 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Council President Verna

I think you were cut in FY '05. But if we're spending $18.4 million in overtime, would it be cheaper to simply hire more guards? I'm sure -- Is this for guards, for the most part?

Mr. King

Yes. And the problem -- The basic reason -- One of the basic reasons is, you know, the prison population has climbed over the years, but the -- the -- you know, the authorized staffing levels have not. So when the population rises, there's certain things we have to do. So we have to fill it with overtime. So the vacancy rate is one of the big things that causes us to use overtime. And the vacancy rate, combined with, you know, leave time that we have to grant employees. So what we've done is, we've been talking amongst ourselves in the prison system about a program to hire another 180 correctional officers.

Council President Verna

What would 478 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 that cost?

Mr. King

I believe the estimate we have is, like, $100,000; is that correct? $90,000. Excuse me. So the question will be, then, it's not our decision. We'll have to talk with Mr. Dubow and the budget folks, so they can tell us whether it would, in fact, be cheaper to hire those people and bring them on or continue to fill the position with overtime.

Council President Verna

That's an awful lot in overtime.

Mr. King

And you know, that's the issue generally with overtime. And there are a lot of things that -- You know, if -- We have a pretty elaborate system at the jail, in regard to overtime and how we deploy people and whatnot.

Council President Verna

How does that work?

Mr. King

I could have Major Anderson come up.

Council President Verna

Because, 479 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 as I said, $18.4 million in overtime is such --

Mr. King

Again, it's just like with the hospital costs. There are a lot of things that are unexpected that we have to staff for. So, for example, the guy who got shot and his spinal cord is severed, you know, the two CO's that have to watch him three shifts at Moss Rehab, that's not in the staffing plan. Those are things that happen that we're not funded for. We don't -- We can't plan to have, you know, CO's standing around.

Council President Verna

So you have actually two guards at the hospital. Is that what you're saying?

Mr. King

I believe Deputy Commissioner Murphy pulled one, since the man is paralyzed. But generally speaking, based on union rules and things of that nature, there are two correctional officers watching these people. 480 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Council President Verna

So that means those who are assigned at the prison would undoubtedly have to work overtime to cover for the officers that are at the hospital.

Mr. King

So we either -- And I mean, the way -- the choice is, you cover the service. Two officers are pulled from the jail. They're at -- They're at Moss Rehab Center. We have to fill the positions they were working on overtime. Or we stop the activity that those two officers would have been conducting at the jail.

Council President Verna

Well, I personally think you're going to do an excellent job. I really do. And I think it behooves you to certainly check with Mr. Dubow about whether it would be much more efficient, much more economical to be hiring more guards than paying all of this money in overtime. My God; what does one individual 481 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 make in overtime a year?

Mr. King

Well, we had our most notorious -- Not notorious; I wouldn't use that word -- our most famous person at the prison system in the Daily News a few years ago who made -- a few weeks ago who made, I think, a hundred -- He almost made as much as I did, in overtime.

Council President Verna

How much did he make?

Mr. King

A hundred thousand something. But that's just an indication of the fact -- That correctional officer, no one forced him to work overtime. There's just a lot of work to be done.

Council President Verna

You know, I remember years ago at a public hearing that was implied that the guards really had really quite a game going. If Mr. Ramos and I were partners, and we were working on the same shift, I would say to him: Listen, you take off tomorrow, and I'll work the overtime. Is that what goes on today? 482 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. King

I don't believe that that's what goes on.

Council President Verna

That was happening. And I think, as I said, I just think $18 million is an awful lot. What is the growth in your inmate population that you are projecting? And just let us know how you will be able to reduce your budget for inmate clothing by $50,000.

Mr. King

Okay. Mr. Semansky is going to address the inmate clothing. And the first part of the question in regard to the population, a lot of -- our population projections are... It's very important to consider the reentry programs and the things that we're going to initiate, because the way we're going to keep our budget down and contain prison costs is to get rid of inmates. I mean, that's the core long-term goal of the prison system, is to reduce the population.

Council President Verna

How are you reducing the budget for clothing by 483 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 $50,000 in FY '05?

Mr. King

I'll ask Mr. Semansky explain that.

Mr. Semansky

Madam Chair, we have the Prisons Industries Program. They manufacture clothing. We're going to try to increase the production of that clothing, rather than purchase -- outsourcing the inmate clothing. We're buying bulk material, which is cheaper than buying a manufactured product, and using inmate labor to produce the garment.

Council President Verna

Smart. How long have you been doing this?

Mr. Semansky

In the industries program? That's been in existence for as long as I've been in the prisons, for at least 25, 30 years, at least.

Council President Verna

Okay.

Mr. Semansky

Perhaps longer.

Council President Verna

Okay. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown. 484 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilwoman Blackwell

Madam President, I have some questions while she's on the telephone.

Council President Verna

Okay.

Councilwoman Blackwell

One is, Commissioner, on Pages 3, 4 and 5 of your testimony, you speak of enhancing inmate discharge programs to reduce inmate recidivism. I know the JEVS Program and your system has a well thought-out perspective arbor program that would work well with some of the vacant lot stabilization efforts that we are doing here with NTI. I believe the Horticulture Society has been speaking with you or perhaps your staff about this. Could you provide an update about what is happening with this potential program?

Mr. King

Deputy commissioner Appel can give us an update on the horticultural society.

Mr. Appel

Yes, I can. We have had a number of meetings. That is absolutely 485 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 so. Those have resulted in a grant proposal that has been submitted to the state which would result in a reopening of our Greenhouse Program where we would be growing fruits and vegetables which would then be turned over to Philabundance which would then go to needy homes. And it's a three-year grant, and we have every hope that it will be granted.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you. I'll refer the portion back --

Council President Verna

Thank you. Again, the Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you for that. My -- I hate to say final because the responses of you and your colleagues may prompt another question. Tell me about the rules regarding inmates and voting. What are the restrictions, if any, and what do we do to promote voter registration?

Mr. King

Well, as I understand it, 486 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 there are no restrictions on inmates voting in the Philadelphia prisons. And as I recall, we have a gentleman that comes up to the jails to do that, Mr. Leotis Jones. Is that his name?

Mr. King

Yes. And he comes up on primaries and the elections. And he goes around and registers inmates to vote. And I believe they vote by absentee ballot.

Mr. Appel

That's correct.

Councilwoman Brown

Who is this that does that?

Mr. King

His name is Leotis Jones.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. Tell us about Core Star and the integrated strategic approach that's happened with regards to problem solving. Can you share with us the outcome to date.

Mr. King

Yes. Core Star is something that we started at the prison system back in January. And what it is, it's modeled after Comstat in the Police Department. 487 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 And what it tries to do is... First of all, we meet on a monthly basis. And the goal there is to focus on issues that are important to the prison system, number one, and eventually develop a set of performance standards, where every month we emphasize these particular standards. The philosophy is that what doesn't get measured doesn't get done. So part of -- What we've been very good at the prisons is doing things. We keep a lot of records. But what we thought we needed to get better at is actually putting them in a systematic format and using our information system in a more effective manner to measure those things. So we meet on a monthly basis. And institutions, wardens are required to present their progress in areas that we have outlined. Right now it's really in its infancy stage, meaning that I wanted -- I wanted this fancy software package, and I wanted 488 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 this and that and the other to start it. And, you know, there was just more work to be done. And I wasn't getting everything. So I said, we need to start meeting and give this process a name. So we've met four times. The wardens were given specific areas to come up to look at goals for the year. So, for example, budget is one of them. So, budget, overtime. We're going to give them two or three months to be creative on their own with -- in regard to the budget and overtime, and ways that they're going to reduce that. Professionalism within the institutions. Focusing on education at Pennypack School, and increasing participation in that. Professionalism and professional development amongst the staff, the supervisors in the system.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. King

Raising morale in the 489 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 system. They're all coming -- They've all come up with plans for these things. There's four or five more -- other categories there.

Councilwoman Brown

But essentially it's an approach for systemic change...

Councilwoman Brown

...if you will.

Councilwoman Brown

That's always welcomed and encouraged. I received a letter from attorney Mark Mendel which speaks to the performance bond and bid bond associated with the health services contract.

Councilwoman Brown

He speaks to how the City could save as much as $500,000 by removing these barriers. Could you speak to that?

Mr. King

I'm going to have Miss Cosinsky speak to the specifics of it, but I'm acquainted with Mr. Mendel. I believe he represents PCOM, who is 490 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 one of the folks that are actually presenting a bid on the health care contract. And we're very encouraged by the fact that an entity like PCOM would be bidding on the contract.

Councilwoman Brown

PCOM stands for?

Mr. King

Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine.

Councilwoman Brown

Oh.

Mr. King

It's up on City Line Avenue.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. King

And I know that the performance bond was an issue for them. And I believe that we said that they could ask for a waiver. But why don't you...

Ms. Cosinsky

Yes. I'm Roseann Cosinsky. I'm Director of Contract Compliance and Administration for the prisons. And shortly before this testimony, I spoke with Sheryl Critz, who is our Deputy 491 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 City Solicitor for the Prisons. And she assured me that what we are doing is, we were exploring alternative ways for providers to present this bond. It may be in the form of property. It may be in the form of reduction. But we would be developing a plan, submitting that plan to the Director of Finance. And it is at the discretion of the Director of Finance to approve or disapprove any changes in the performance bond request. So we are cognizant of this fact and are taking appropriate action.

Council President Verna

All right.

Councilwoman Brown

On the third page of the performance measures, it appears as if the number of inmates receiving vocational training has been halved from the FY 2001 figure. FY 2001, it was 1900 plus, and 932 is projected for FY '05. Can you speak to the decrease, actually 50 percent decrease.

Mr. King

I'll let Deputy Commissioner Appel comment on that. 492 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Mr. Appel

Prior to our looking at the creation of the jobs project and the reentry process, the job training programs that we had were mostly three to four weeks in length. We were looking at quantity. We were trying to get as many inmates in and through as we were able.

Mr. King

And that was basically, I think --

Mr. Appel

Because of the Jackson.

Mr. King

-- the Jackson consent decree. We'd get held in contempt if we didn't have, you know, 900 inmates in the slot.

Mr. King

So that was one of the benefits of not being under the consent decree, is we could plan a little better.

Mr. Appel

But when we looked at what level of training the marketplace required, we realized that we had to extend the weeks of job training, so that now the training programs that we have run from 60 to 90 days. 493 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilwoman Brown

Yes.

Mr. Appel

So we've gone from looking at quantity to looking at quality. And we think in the long haul, that will allow the inmates to be better able to find work upon release which will help us in our long-term efforts to hold the inmate population at a manageable size.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you for your response. My final observation about programs period, are they are good, they are necessary, but they mean nothing if there's no coordination amongst the programs. A link or thread that ties them all together so that no one falls through the cracks... You have a number of solid programs that you shared with us, including the JEVS and the arbor, and that's all very, very good. But it means nothing if women and men are falling through the cracks. Their... not purpose, but the strength of those programs and the effectiveness of 494 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 those programs become questionable when inmates are falling through the cracks. So, I would ask and hope, as we go down this road, and you're looking to open up a new facility for women and men, that they do not fall through the cracks when they leave these doors.

Mr. King

I agree with you, Councilwoman. And again, we're looking at all the programs, to gear them specifically toward reentry and rehabilitation. And we're even working on a specific written policy. Deputy Commissioner Hammond is working on this, a reentry policy --

Councilwoman Brown

Very good.

Mr. King

-- that will also help us, you know, coordinate and make sure that we're not duplicating our efforts and missing people. Because when we duplicate efforts and missing people, not only are we not doing our job as effectively as we can but we're wasting money.

Councilwoman Brown

For sure. 495 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Please introduce the gentleman to your right.

Mr. King

This is Mr. Semansky, our Fiscal Officer.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. Thank you very much for your testimony, gentlemen. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos.

Councilman Ramos

Thank you, Madam Chair. Concerning the... Again, following up on the issues of jobs, my colleague Wilson Goode has presented a bill in this Council for consideration which I'm a co-sponsor of, that would give tax credits to businesses that would hire ex-offenders. I think that this is an area that we need to continue to work hard on. How does this rate in your priorities as Prison Commissioner?

Mr. King

Well, jobs... I think 496 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 that's probably more important -- Well, in my mind I think about that more; I'll put it that way, than I do housing and some other things, when it comes to people reentering society, especially with some of the handicaps that exist there in society for inmates, again, who are trying to, you know, make their way right in life. So, I welcome ideas like that, where we give businesses an incentive to hire an ex-inmate, an offender who's gone through one of our programs. And it goes a long way with adding to things that, like what Senator Kitchen and Representative Oliver did with some of the laws that we had in Harrisburg that, you know, forbade student loans and things of that nature to ex-offenders. So, you know, when you're released, you want to go to school. They won't give you a loan because you're an ex-offender. So I would say if we were going to talk about priorities upon reentry, just the way I think about it, I think dealing 497 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 with your drug addiction and your... that plays a big part in your criminal behavior. Jobs, I think, would be second, and then housing. I don't know if that's the politically correct professional way to put it, but what's the way I think about it in my head.

Councilman Ramos

I just want to again offer my services. As -- You know, as some of my colleagues now know that my tenure here, regardless of how long it will be, I want to let the public know that I'm here to help the people of Philadelphia get jobs, job training. Workforce development is very... is a key part of economic development in any City. And we're working very hard here in this Council to make both things, you know, part of one objective, and that is to train and make jobs available to our people. I just want to touch for a few minutes on the issue of health care. I was... I heard you somewhere say that reorganizing health care was one of your -- 498 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 one of your priorities. But someone told me a story, I believe it was last year, that you had an inmate -- I believe it was a woman -- who was an end-stage AIDS patient. And end-stage, I believe -- correct me if I'm wrong -- this is a person who's AIDS is very advanced; and, you know, it's a very tough time for them. And this person was in prison. And while the person was in prison, you had to provide health care for this person. And I hear that -- and correct me if I'm wrong. Well, I was only told the story that the prison system spent close to a million dollars in providing health care for this lady who went there, who went to your prison system. And she died there. So it cost almost a million dollars to take care of her. And it was probably something very righteous to do. However, how many of these cases do you have? And can we come up with another 499 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 way of, you know, housing someone that is that sick, instead of putting them in our prison population, probably at a much lower cost, and also being able to be, you know, a help to this person?

Councilman Ramos

Is it a true story or --

Mr. King

There was a lady who had end-stage AIDS. And I know she was in the hospital, and she cost us a lot of money. I'd ask Roseann maybe to come up and whisper in my ear if she knows how much it was. I know it was a large amount.

Councilman Ramos

Yeah. I heard it was close to a million dollars, just for this one person. And if you have just a few inmates that are end-stage positive, you know, that's... that puts a dent in your budget. And I'm for... You know, I'm for taking care of the poor and the sick, but there must be a better way of doing and not a -- you know, and not so costly. 500 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 I mean, a nursing home. I mean, why can't we put someone that is brought into your prison that's very ill... Why can't we, you know, provide... Why can't we have, you know, alternatives, instead of putting them -- housing them in our prisons?

Mr. King

Well, there's several things I would say to that. We do have a program for people who are that ill. That's called Compassionate Release. And that's what the prison does. We approach the judges in the Court of Common Pleas. And we say, this person is very, very ill. Looks like they're going to die. We would like for you to release them on Compassionate Release. So that means they dismiss the charges. The person is released from the prison system's custody, and they're in a hospital or somewhere.

Councilman Ramos

But that didn't happen with this person.

Mr. King

That didn't happen 501 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 because we can't just do it, apparently. I don't know what this person did. You know, we have to get the Judge to say, okay, we're going to -- the Judge, the D.A., you know, to agree to dismiss the charges and release this person compassionately. We can't do it automatically. And that's part of the thing that I need people to think about, not only people who have end-stage AIDS, because I wonder what did she do to get into the prison in the first place if she had end-stage AIDS. I don't know. But we also have probably, I think, 1400 people now in the mental health case load. And they cost us a lot of money, you know, the per diem for the -- We have a per diem that cost, you know, just the run-of-the-mill inmate who's not ill. And then we have these mentally ill people who are up at the jail. And part of what we need to think about when we think about prison budgets and reducing things is 502 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 working with the Criminal Justice System to come up with alternatives, where we could place these people. I'll tell you the story of a friend of mine whose brother is schizophrenic. And when he's fine and he's well and he's on his medication, he's no problem to anybody. When he decides he's not going to take his medication, he goes out on to the street. He starts buying crack cocaine and marijuana. He starts becoming a problem. He then begins to terrorize his mother. She calls the police. He gets arrested. He goes to jail. And that's been a cycle that's been happening for about ten years. And every time he stays in our system for six months, we pay for it. He's discharged. Those are things that we need to think about other alternatives to put these people, so that --

Councilman Ramos

We need to do something about it. 503 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Councilman Ramos

And I've heard you propose very good ideas here this evening. And I'd like to listen to people who have got some vision, you know, of what -- how we should address these issues for the years to come, instead of how do we put a Band-Aid on today to stop the bleeding. I mean, do you have any ideas? I mean, 1100 now. That number -- You mentioned 1500 are mental health inmates.

Mr. King

I got that -- I got that -- I updated my numbers in preparation for the budget testimony.

Councilman Ramos

Okay.

Mr. King

And you know, one of the things that I think -- First of all, what we need to do, it can't be a Band-Aid approach in the City. It has to be a comprehensive approach in looking at the Criminal Justice System and everybody who plays a part in it. 504 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Prisons alone... The Managing Director always reminds me that I'm the Prison Commissioner, not something else. The prison system alone can't solve all these problems. We have to have the cooperation of the courts, the District Attorney, the Public Defender, and whatnot. So we -- First we have to sit down and get these people together. We do have them together in the Criminal Justice Coordinating Committee. Then we have to figure out who it is exactly we have in the prison system before we start making decisions. And I'm telling you information about who we have and who we don't have, but we need more specific information coming to our fingertips a little quicker. Now when I ask for this information, it takes a little bit to get to it because of the way, you know, our MIS decision is staffed. And then once we know exactly who we 505 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 have, then we can start to think about what do we do. So, for example, if it's verified that we have 1400 inmates on the mental health case load, you know, how many of them are there like the one I just described, who has this problem who's schizophrenic. And if there are enough people in that particular category, the alternative is to put -- find a structure, maybe that the City funds, that's not jail, that would put them in to take care of their mental health needs, that probably is going to be cheaper than the $75 a day that costs to house an inmate in the Philadelphia Prisons. And like I said, it has to be coordinated and strategic, not reactive. What we've been doing in the City for a long time is being -- We're pretty good at being reactive. But for this sort of stuff, it has to be strategic, it has to be planned. There's a... I don't know which City it 506 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 is, where they have a unit in the Police Department -- and I know our police are trained on mental health issues and recognizing people. And I don't think they have a special unit like this. But they have a unit in another City where they're called to the scene, these people who are specially trained with mental health issues. Mr. Appel says it's in Pottstown, where they evaluate the situation, and they make a determination whether this person is mentally ill, you know, and this is what's causing them to act out. And if that's true, they don't bring them to whatever county Pottstown is in, the county jail. They bring them to a treatment facility. And generally speaking, you know, people... They send my friend's brother, the schizophrenic, to the Philadelphia Prisons basically for mental health treatment at $75 a day, when we could be housing him somewhere else and paying less 507 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 money. So that's one of the ideas that I have. But like I said, I want to make sure that we have accurate information about who we have in the jails before we sit down and decide what it is we should do with them. But that's just one example.

Councilman Ramos

Are you starting to compile that information?

Mr. King

I'm starting to put the systems in place to compile that information. And I'm hoping to start actually looking at it in the next month or two. I mean, I'm this close to having the person that I've found, put my hands around, who's going to come up and specifically do this for me.

Councilman Ramos

Will you keep us updated through the Chair, please?

Mr. King

Sure. COUNCIMAN RAMOS: Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Thank you. 508 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you. I'm fine. He answered it.

Council President Verna

No 7 questions? Okay. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Seeing none, I thank you.

Mr. King

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you for being so patient. Our last department to testify today is the Records Development. Commissioner, before you identify yourself, we do have a copy of your testimony? It has been given to the stenographer. It will be transcribed in full. May I please ask that you abbreviate your testimony.

Ms. Decker

Certainly. 509 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Ms. Decker

My name is Joan Decker. I'm the Records Commissioner in the City. And I just want to thank City Council and its members for their support of the Records Department and it's initiatives. And I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have.

Council President Verna

Well, no 11 wonder we think you're wonderful. You're wonderful. Are there any questions of the Commissioner? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Commissioner, I thank you so much for the wonderful work that you do. (Applause.)

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Committee will stand in recess until -- until tomorrow, Wednesday, April the 21st, at 9:30. Thank you. (Hearing concluded at 6:40 p.m.) 510 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings and evidence are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by us upon the public hearing of The Philadelphia City Council, taken on April 20, 2004, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. _____________________________ DAVID A. DEIK, RPR and Commissioner of Deeds _____________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)