Second, there needs to be a broader identification, I think, in a couple of different areas. You talk about a pilot, we want to have couple different experiences.
There's the six-foot wall, the Chief of Staff told me about a 30 foot wall literally right across from my district. I'm assuming that they're going to get different treatments. So we don't have to decide this right here as we're speaking. And I appreciate you raising that issue first here this 63 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 morning.
And we're committed, as I said, to fund to a demonstration project where we look at a variety of different types of walls in different places. I didn't mean to convey the message that it was only going to be one wall or two walls. We had not yet settled on a dollar amount because I think we really wanted to do get a sense of what it would cost. I mean, we would be pulling the number out of the air, which we basically did, and we were hoping that based on further investigation and detail, we can begin to quantify that number as with some other new initiatives in which we had proposed in the NTI Program budget. The intent was to say, Okay, let's get a since -- you know, let's start it, get a sense of what it is. Otherwise, you're kind of guessing at it.
I think Councilwoman Tasco wants to say something. The only other thing I would say is, I mean, this is one of those situations where we may not have to search too far in terms of information.
We have a fair amount literally in my office, but there have been public hearings on this issue. There's a pretty good record that's been established. And I think that there are some expert people in the Streets Department who are much more knowledgeable about this both from a cost standpoint, new technologies, new materials. No 10 one's talking about now literally stone or bricks and mortar. I mean, there's new material that exists that you see right out on the Schuylkill Expressway. As if you were leaving Center City but then decided to go to 30th Street, you know, you have to kind of go around and come back. That same material is the material that contractors are now using which significantly reduces the cost. I mean, obviously if being used on the Schuylkill Expressway, it has the ability to hold some weight.
But that's the kind of stuff that we're talking about.
Yes, I understand that was the parameters of your conversation. 65 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285
Thank you. Well, maybe -- let the Chair suggest that we have a meeting in the very near future where we invite all Councilmembers and those who are interested can come to a meeting to discuss specific problems that they may have in their areas and we can begin a formal process to deal with the retaining walls as an issue. Councilwoman Tasco and then Councilman Ortiz.
I'd just like ed to say that I'm glad Councilman Nutter stated the fact that there are other districts with the issue of retaining walls. He's been most vocal lately on retaining walls. There's another problem that we need to look at also as it relates to blight in those neighborhoods that we're trying to stabilize, and that is the issue of driveways.
And When I go to a community meeting, it used to be trees. Now we've taken care of the trees somewhat; it's now driveways. 66 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285
And while we explain to them that it's the homeowner's responsibility, what homeowner's are saying to me is that they don't mind paying, but they need a process, they need an overseer to make sure that everybody impacted on both sides of the driveway pay for the work.
When the Mayor was President of City Council, he had called together various departments in the City of Philadelphia, the Law Department, the Planning and Streets Department and somebody else, I don't remember, to talk about coming up with a way that the City could be involved, not necessarily in terms of providing the dollars, but providing the oversight of communities who want to repave their driveways.
And I think that is an important discussion that need to take place because a number of people willing to pay. They want everybody to pay. And some of these 67 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 driveways -- and I think the City has some liability because the trash trucks use the driveways.
So Since the trash trucks are contributing to the destruction of the concrete and, of course, time and the use of the driveways by everybody, I think there has to be a serious discussion with us to talk about how we can set up a mechanism to help residents repave the driveways but the City serve as the overseer to make sure that it's done and that the money is collected.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Clarify for me -- it's my understanding that that area between Erie going towards Hunting Park, Fifth Street, that Feltonville area is not included in the plan. I think it's probably bordered with Seventh Street going down and I don't know how far it goes down, 68 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 but the business corridor Fifth between the Roosevelt Boulevard and Erie. And the neighborhood that encompasses that area on both sides of Fifth Street are not included in the plan? Is that --
I believe there's some misunderstanding with respect to the areas where the City Planning Commission in Fiscal Year 2003 will be working with community organizations and residents around a community planning process. What we've emphasized is that those targeted areas for community planning processes does not preclude other neighborhoods or communities --
Well that area is not one of the targeted areas. It is an area that has, I believe, a very vigorous and normative commercial corridor that is trying to be stabilized, that is attempting and searching stabilization. It also has in both sides of Fifth Street generally family-owned homes on both sides.
And you put that sort of situation together with strengthening the 69 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 commercial corridor of that area and then you begin stabilizing that neighborhood.
And you also have the problem, as we talked before, of the Feltonville residents that have some of the subsidence problems that they have encountered, and we don't want another empty lot leveling of homes in that area which will destabilize both the commercial corridor and the neighborhood.
I just want to know why that area, which really is vibrant and ready to be stabilized and not yet deteriorated to a level that needs massive and huge amounts of money was not included in the plan.
With respect to the Fifth Street corridor, we did acknowledge that that would be a focused or targeted comprehensive planning area, building off of the work that's 70 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 already been --
Building off the work that is reflected in the boundaries of the plan, so that's one of the target areas.
But as it goes below Erie, it does not comprehend that area.
That's where most of the family home residences and family home buildings and I think a more vigorous retail and business corridor is developing.
Mm-hmm. Again, I just wanted to really emphasize that we envision planning happening over the five years of NTI, and what we put in this document here reflects the focal point in the first year. And at this point, there's some communities. We can look 24 at -- we also have acknowledged and said we need 25 to do some specific type of activities which may 71 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 not be the same as a major planning study being undertaken and that it's still possible for us to work with community-based organizations and CDCs with respect to some specific things.
I understand that. What I'm saying is that from Erie down to Hunting Park up to the Boulevard and on both sides of Fifth Street, you have a neighborhood that's really a working-class neighborhood. It has not become a totally governmental subsidized neighborhood that is seeking help in rehabilitation and stabilization, which I thought was the goal of NTI.
It's a neighborhood that's teetering. And you have businesses and retail businesses that are owned by people within the neighborhood and you have development going on within the neighborhood from CDCs and other individuals. And you have very basic institutions, plus you have the park. You have Hunting Park fronting parts of that.
And I just don't 72 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 understand why that -- because it meets all of the criterias, I would suggest, that would go. This is a neighborhood that is teetering but has not fallen done to what we find, let's say, in the area of Sixth and Indiana and those areas. It's a neighborhood that is viable working class individuals African-Americans, Latinos, a lot of homeowned properties and businesses and that was excluded until a few years hence.
Again, let me emphasize that NTI resources are available for that type of neighborhood. For example, one of the things that we've done is we've looked at what we call, you know, vacant properties, you know, stabilization work to take place in a neighborhood like that. Resources is a part of the preservation strategy, making sure that the HRP program we're adding additional resources to the Homeownership Rehab Program which is a moderate rehab program. We've open that and said that in some neighborhoods where there aren't CDCs that if this was a neighborhood like that there would be opportunities to work with small contractors, small developers, small rehabber 73 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 types to access those resources. But that's -- so NTI resources can be and will be targeted to neighborhoods such as that. There is proposals that we've received to look at combination grant and loan programs tied to a variety of CDCs to do preservation activities for existing occupied properties. And those resources, again, are available for a neighborhood such as the one you described. I was just distinguishing when we said there was going to be some planning work done, something that we haven't done a long time in this city on a comprehensive level that, you know, this was going to be the starting places. In addition, I want to just emphasize that the Planning Commission has also looked at a number of existing plans, including CDC plans from the past and other plans, and then we can also use that as a framework to extract out specific projects and resources. So I don't feel honestly that this neighborhood is excluded or just won't be a recipient of dollars. From your description, it sounds like one around which we are trying to allocate resources. You know, the PHIL Loan Program is another program that for 74 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 owner occupants we feel excited about because we're going to be lowering significantly the interest rates on PHIL Loan and making it available up to percent loans up to 115 percent of income. And for individuals over that, they can borrow at percent. We're going to start doing much more targeted marketing of resources like the PHIL Loan Program, whereas before it was kind of information given out citywide but using vehicles like neighborhood newspapers to make people aware of this resource in their community.
But why don't you integrate the businesses that are there and the business owners, the community folks there and the community institutions that are there into a meeting. Because right now I can tell you, people feel -- because I read the newspapers and they look at maps and they look at charts, and I'm the one that gets the phone calls. And they say, What's going on here? We're getting left out of this process. And I believe if you're going to do that, I think an explanation of that community because from Erie to the Boulevard, you have probably one of the most energetic 75 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 homeownership communities of Latinos and African-Americans that's still stable within the north central Philadelphia area. And I think it behooves to bring together these groupings of people.
And we will. That's the other thing that we emphasize in the program statement and budget, that the staff of the Planning Commission is available to meet and convene --
I understand. And staff, I mean, again, we want to emphasize that this does not mean that Planning Commission staff is not available to attend meetings to facilitate sessions.
It's not whether they're available or not. I believe that they have to go out and meet.
And they have to go out and sit down and organize and begin explaining a whole lot of things because right 76 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 now, there's -- you come here, and we might begin to understand. And we get very little understanding after we sit here. But if we don't understand this thing fully, can you imagine what it is out there?
Okay. Victoria Mason Ailey is here from the City Planning Commission and she can talk a little bit about how we envision doing the planning outside of the 11 areas. 12 And I also want to mention for the 13 record, the Planning Commission is also going to 14 be doing an asset inventory of commercial 15 corridors city-wide to service the jumping off 16 point for some other planning activity around 17 commercial corridors. 18
Fine, thank you. My name 22 is Victoria Mason Ailey, and I'm here this 23 morning representing the Philadelphia City 24 Planning Commission. 25 As Pat has referred to, there are two 77 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 things I want to share with you. One, the Planning Commission is looking to engage in a vigorous neighborhood planning process that will involved reaching out to each neighborhood, again, engaging those communities particularly those communities that have no formal plan or planning document in a dialogue to begin to establish --
Is that material that's been forwarded to our office? STAFF PERSON: No. We'd like to see it.
We've invited those neighborhoods and those entities that have formal documents and formal plans to forward that information to us. Richard Reading is here, our Director of Community Planning. He would welcome having that information forwarded to his attention.
Well, they're part of the original SABA group that we organized around ten years ago, and those plans have been 78 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 done all the way up to Hunting Park and beyond.
Well, we are engaging communities with plans as in this instance and those without formal documents in a vigorous -- we're looking to engage in a vigorous neighborhood planning process that will enable residents, business community members, as well as key stakeholders within each community to have some input and to give us added information to help guide the planning process. We're not looking to embark on the planning process in isolation without input and participation from all levels of the communities. With regard to commercial activity, the Commission has embarked organ a study known as Phila Shops which will entail an inventory of all commercial establishments and components citywide, and that has just kicked off within the last few weeks and they will be looking into areas such as Fifth Street as part of that process.
Thank you. 79 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 The Chair also notes the presence of Councilman David Cohen.
Councilman, I just want to add very quickly that it's not all a matter your concerns get addressed not simply through the planning process, but also the integration of the some of the activity that's already going on in that area. For instance of the several areas of Fifth Street, I think the ones that you're expressing a concern about now roughly falls somewhere in 42 to 4600, and that is one of the targeted corridors. And there is a coordinator from PCDC who works that corridor. So that some of the concerns of those business there would have already recorded under that process and then have to be integrated into whatever new levels of NTI planning and programming go on.
Thank you very much. Councilman Cohen, you had a question?
Yes. During the hearing at the outset, I 80 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 raised the question of does the City have a plan, which to me really restores areas that don't have to be totally restored that are currently stabilized but are missing specific parts. Those parts include, for example, arrangements to repair driveways and retaining walls without breaking the backs of the house owners with the costs like the City used to do. It deals with what do we do with these small vacant apartment buildings to get them occupied instead of having them places where criminals, rapists, can hang out and threaten people in the neighborhood. What do we do about the lack of supermarkets? What do we do about lack of other retail establishments? If you're talking about revitalization of neighborhoods, seems to me that in areas that are largely stabilized not yet blighted, that that makes a whole lot more sense than to wait ten more years until areas get blighted and will cost much more money to restore when we will have severe losses of people from the neighborhoods. Now, I wonder in this course of time, has the NTI come up with a program to deal with those things? 81 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 Let me add a fifth thing. There are whole areas where there are blocks houses, but for some reason or other, a house located in the center of a rowhouse gets to be deteriorated. I don't want to blame L&I for not paying attention or anybody else, but apparently the house or houses may have become so dangerous that an L&I judgment that had to be removed. There are some beautiful blocks, I think of one right in my area about 30 seconds from where I live in the 5900 block of Kimball Avenue, beautiful area. But right in the middle, two houses have been removed and nobody does anything to replace them. There are other blocks on the block in which I live, the 5600 block of North 16th Street, the fourth house from the southern corner 5607 North 15th Street is all board up. Every other house is in excellent condition on the block. Are we going to wait till that boarded up house gets blighted and has to be torn down or are we going save that block? There are the kind of questions that if you want interest to really be strong in the City in support of blight, you've got to think of 82 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 how you prevent areas that are already not quite yet in the blighted stage from becoming blighted. So I ask my question, because I've raised this issue now over number -- not only at the beginning of this hearing, I've raised it before. Is there such a program to be dealt with? What are the outlines of such a program? And how does it fit into the NIT Program? Or does the NIT Program say, As long as the neighborhood can totter, we're going to let it totter until it falls down, then we can move it into the blight block and pay attention. Until then, it's got to suffer on its own. That's the question I direct to --
One of the things, Councilman, as you know from the beginning, we talked about the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative needs to look at how we invest our resources from two perspectives --
Why need to look at it? Why can't we do something about it? I don't understand this talk of looking at problems. I think we're in the business of solving problems not looking at problems. We can 83 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 look and find many, many problems.
Yes. Secondly, within the NTI Program statement and budget, I have included a number of pages that really address the types of issues that you talked about. One is the issue of when we have one or two vacants on the block or very few vacants in neighborhoods, how do we address those problems? In the past, sometimes they did remain vacant to the point where they needed to be demolished. What we're proposing is a strategy that talks about stabilizing those properties, acquiring the properties if we are unable to facilitate the acquisition through private means and then packaging them and issuing RFPs for their rehab programs like the Homeownership Rehabilitation Program. Those programs are described in detail, including the operating principles on Pages 20 and 24 of the program statement as well as in the 21 back of the book on the HRP Program about in 22 order to be able to make sure we can cause the 23 rehabilitation of vacant properties in neighborhoods where there are currently no 25 Community Development Corporations, opening that 84 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 program up and adding resources to it so that small contractors and rehab can access that resource. We also acknowledge that we beefed up and wanted to do expand the programs that related to owner-occupied programs. As I testified at the beginning of the hearing, we're expanding PHIL Loan, we're reducing the interest rate significantly to two levels from 9, 6, percent to two interest rates of and 3 percent. The 3 percent interest rates are available to homeowners up to 115 percent of income, median income within the City, the 5 percent is without limit. That will give us a great more flexibility to reach -- we're going to start targeting marketing those programs. We also acknowledge that not every individual may have the credit to access PHIL Loan, so we will design and work with what we call a loan product that will be accessible to those that are less than A credit, and we've put some funds in place to get that started this year. We also are looking at a targeted grant program, particularly we can leverage resources with grants and loans. And, 85 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 again, the emphasis here is on blocks where there are few vacants so that we can preserve. It's a clear objective from NTI to also look at how do we preserve blocks that are fairly stable in neighborhoods that are, as you described, before they become blighted, how do we begin to make resources available so that we can prevent the encroachment of blight? With respect to things of supermarkets and the like, as I testified last week, I think there are a couple of things that are at play here. One is the availability -- the way the economics of supermarkets work today, and this is something that the City does not have power, they're high-gross businesses that work on what they feel like very small profit margins and so they tend to want to build the big super boxes in neighborhoods. So one way in some communities that we can assure that there's that opportunity is through the aggregation and assembly of land for supermarkets. There's been at the national level several initiatives, one lead by LIS, called the Retail Initiative where working and talking with supermarkets about their building 86 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 inner city and getting them to rethink some of their requirements because some of their requirements, to be honest, business requirements, aren't suited for inner-city markets. And as Mr. Traylor testified, we believe one supermarket, Pathway, has began to rethink some of its basic requirements in terms of square footage. Again, there's some things which we don't have complete control over but are working with -- and one of the things about working at the national level is that many supermarkets national and the issues are not unique to Philadelphia.
And it provides a good excuse to do nothing locally because you can always be spending energies looking at the national level. And with the local level, even where the case that Councilwoman Tasco talked about that she and I have been working very hard for a number of years, we have an operator trusted by the neighborhood in the business in the neighborhood for 50 years, everybody has confidence. The City's done practically zero. I 87 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 don't want to say zero because there's been an occasional meeting. But it would be a very simple, easy thing to put together if anybody really was interested in putting it together. It hasn't been put together. There's an apartment house at 16th and Grange that's been vacant for ten years. Nobody pays any attention to it. And therefore, I'm concerned. What I would like to know is how do you answer the question of a community leader who says, "When is that terrible emptiness in the middle of the 5700 block of Kimball Avenue going to be filled? Why are there still steps leading to nowhere, where they tore down a house but left steps here and nobody in the City even checked to see whether the contract included the removal of steps, and it probably but then nobody examined it to see if the contractor did it. What I'm saying is if you want to have confidence stilled in the community people in the community, then those things that the City can do, the City ought to do. It ought to stop looking at ways of doing it, but begin to do it. 88 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 And I would like to know the answers to specific things in my area. I'm sure the other Councilmembers would like to have answer to give to folks in the community in their area. It doesn't take a lot of looking at. It takes some planning, sitting down with people d getting a job done. So I just hear in the blight program about all of these various kinds of programs, but you don't tell us that the program has already been utilized. Take, for example, years ago we passed a bill in this City Council because there was a great concerned expressed by a number of Councilmembers about the destabilization of rear driveways and retaining walls in areas that were good areas. We passed a bill to authorize it. As far as I can see, absolutely nothing has been done, though the bill is three or four years old, and I don't understand it. As far as I know, there's no money completely been made available for any driveway anywhere under any kind of a plan to be provided to help the neighborhoods restore these retaining walls and driveways. So I see at no point where the City has had an 89 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 opportunity where everything is in place. The City has done nothing. That's our problem in selling confidence to people that something's going to happen in the blight program. We want it to succeed, and we think the City's got to come forward and begin doing something in the areas not only where areas are totally blighted already, but in the areas stabilized to do prevent them from becoming blighted. So when can we go from the time of looking at things to doing something? And I raise that question.
Councilman, on the issue of the supermarket situation, last week -- first, let me say that I think it would be very difficult for us to find any supermarket in the City of Philadelphia that has opened or reopened that the City has not been involved in some level in assisting with that activity. In the specific one that that you ask about at Broad and Godfrey --
Broad and Stenton. Since the individuals that -- the private people 90 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 who are involved in trying to pull that project together did not seem to be moving the way we in the Commerce Department felt that they should be moving to put that project together, even with suggestions that we were making. We did recommends to the Fern Rock Olney CDC, under the direction of Mrs. Shirley Stevenson, a way to be involved -- I mean, because you were talking about community leadership and how important that is in being involved in these projects. And what we recommended to her was a way that the CDC could get involved and could get some planning support from the commerce to help move that project. That suggestion was made over a year ago. We have not heard back from the CDC in that period of time. Now, key to what was to be done by the CDC, I think, involved working with Rite Aid regarding what they would be willing to sell or lease in order to make that supermarket a reality. To my knowledge, we have not gotten any reports at all on any progress that was made with that. Now, I don't offer any of that 91 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 information as an excuse for not doing more; I simply would like for Council to be aware of the fact that we do respond to these projects and we try to work with them and we try, where possible, to put public dollars to work in the planning as well as in the development process. So I just wanted to report back on that.
Yeah, but you can't leave to a small Community Development Corporation the responsibility.
Point of order. Let me just give a further explanation, and I don't always come to the defense of the Commerce Department. We constantly tug of war all the time. But in this issue, David, it is not their fault. They have provided and worked with this office, my office on that Broad and Godfrey site. And it is Rite Aid that's moving too slow. Now, you do something to put some fire under Rite Aid to negotiate, because I've had private developers 92 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 in there. We've had a number of people look at that process. And every time we talk to them, they're in the process much doing something, and they're doing absolutely nothing. So we have to find a way to make Rite Aid move. The issue there is not --
But the City has to be in there, Councilwoman, not leaving it to the small community development corporation.
No, it's not the small community development group. And I don't mean to banter with you on this. Please just know that office is involved with this --
Oh, I think Mjenzi does a great job. I'm a strong supporter of his.
On this issue, my office is intimately involved with this process, and it is not the fault or the Commerce Department or PCDC in dealing with this issue. I want to make that very clear.
I'm just trying to move the whole City into an active mode.
Well, I agree. They're active with this us on this. And I don't 93 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 have any complaints about it at all. We just have to move the other party
Okay. But then we're going to be involving Councilwoman Tasco, Mr. Mjenzi Traylor and everybody else. But that's the kind of activism that we need. But I would like to see the City in at every level of the negotiation with Rite Aid. I think the City ought to make clear to Rite Aid that it expects them to move. The City's got to show what resources it's going to make available. It's got to enter the activity affirmatively. And I know that that can done because I know Mr. Traylor over a long period of time and I know he's capable of doing it because he does it so well. But I'm saying we've got to move on these things. Four years is a long time to wait for a supermarket. At the Philip Murray House on the east side of Broad Street, we have an apartment house with more than 300 senior citizens who have no place to shop. You can watch them along Stenton Avenue, you know, with their cane walking. They used to be able to walk to a supermarket. There's no place for them to go 94 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 now. And they have to pay or $20 a day. So I urge movement there, but in general movement in all of these areas, on the apartment houses, retaining walls and driveways as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I know when 10 Councilwoman Tasco says it's time to shut up, it's a good idea to do that. So I will follow that advice.
Thank you very much. Are there other questions? Councilman DiCicco.
I have one question. In the statement and budget program that was submitted by Joyce Wilkerson, it gives a budget detail on residential demolition and it prices out the average 95 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 demolition cost per residential unit at $11,500. That is significantly higher than I believe we originally either testified to, you testified to or you anticipated. I think today if not mistaken, we're paying approximately 6 to $8,000 per unit. Why is it 11,500?
We're using a number that also includes things such as party wall treatments, post-demolition treatments, removing a certain amount of soil and putting in enough top soil that you can do some basic treatments to the vacant property. It includes costs like asbestos removal. My understanding is --
Excuse me for interrupting, but aren't we doing that now when we demolish a building?
The $6,000 number is used on the actual contract for the demolition work. And then it's my understanding that the City has a series of what they call requirement contracts where we they just may deploy people to do the party wall stucco, so it's separate. So we historically have not kept all costs on a 96 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 per-property basis. We have a combination of property costs and then combination of costs that are incurred pursuant to requirements. What we wanted to do was we actually built a budget based on a per-property cost. This, again, as I explained last week, is an estimated cost.
That we're budgeting until we start getting, you know, live bids. That's what we'll know. It can vary with between the amount of machine demolitions and hand demolitions and party wall treatments. We've also significantly revised the specs to address historic community complaints about how properties have been left afterwards.
Don't you think, though, by publicizing what we estimate the costs to be we kind of set the bar or the market as to what the RFPs will be coming back knowing that -- the contractor already understands that and he or she can get as high as 11,500? I understand we have to budget, we have to come up with a number, but I just think it's counterproductive, in my opinion, to put the number out there already 97 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 because I think that most people will start coming in looking for the 11-5 and we're going to have negotiate down as opposed to --
Again, because of the way that Council requested the information to be submitted as part of the legislation, you know, we had to break out the per-unit, the estimated budgetary numbers so that we could be responsive to the legislation that talked about the manner in which information would be presented. You know, there's -- the point was well made last week that we run that risk on the opposite side, you know, if we put a number two low and then they came in higher, that too can be a problem. So I understand the point, the point was well taken. You know, we do have this tension between being realistic and, again, I chose -- my position, to be conservative on the numbers as opposed to underestimating and saying the costs were come in as such. I appreciate the comments of the Council about that that may, you know, impact the bidding process.
Thank you. No 25 further questions. 98 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285
Thank you very much. Are there any other questions? Councilman Nutter, you had a question?
Miss Smith, a couple things. One, from our earlier discussion with regard to the retaining wall conversation, I have -- I mean, wherever we conclude today, I have a copy of what I think is the substantive material that will help the discussion which I can give you at the conclusion of today's hearing. It represents some of the materials from the past, but also some up-to-date information. As I said, I don't know that we have that much research to do. Secondly, I had written to you and you acknowledged in the first hearing back on May 17th about a site actually up in Manyunk which will not be in any of the materials that we discussed because it was just brought to our attention. Have you had any opportunity to look at that and do you have any reaction to that?
Again, as I testified, that's what we were going to -- want that to be 99 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 an example of one of the test cases, even though we may not have all of the detail on that, that could be an example of a test case.
There is a lineup. I received recently two of these small vacant lot abatement program forms. I may have missed the memo on that. What are we supposed to do with these?
That information should be directed to the Office of Housing and Community Development. They would initiate the processing and issuance of the abatement agreement. One of the things that will happen is 100 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 they will research to make sure tax liens, whether or not the requesting owner, I think, fulfills -- and as important as within one of the wards that were designated in the legislation by Council. But please forward that to I think it's attention to Belinda Mayo at the Office of Housing and Community Development.
Okay. The constituents sent them directly to me. I had no 11 idea where they were supposed to go.
In term of actual activity, what's actually going to take place over the course of the summer into the fall? And how much money do you expect to spend between now and October 1st?
Again, we will be proceeding with regular demolition activity which is funded out of the bond proceeds. Any type of emergency demolition activities, that would proceed as usual. Second, we hope to have completed a number of the inspections of the priority areas. We hope to have gotten the prototype Strawberry 101 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 Mansion underway. I can't speak specifically as to the dollar amount that would be expended by October. We would have funded the PHIL Loan Program as well as the Home Ownership Rehab Program, begin to identify and market. We are also in the process of reviewing all of the requests with respect to acquisitions to be funded out of bond proceeds as well as beginning the planning processes in connection with the areas that are designated in the plan.
All right. But you're saying that given all of that activity, you're not exactly sure how much of the bond proceeds you're actually going to spend during that period of time?
I haven't broken out to say, you know, looking between now and October what that would translate into a dollar amount. I can give estimates. For example, we refunded PHIL Loan, and that's a $2 million contribution out of bond pros in order to lower the interest rates and make them more available to a larger group of people and more flexible. Again, we've, I believe, allocated $2 million additional for 102 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 the HRP program. That's a customer-driven program so we want to get that money in place or developer-driven. So that's $4 million. The harder one would be to say the exact amount in demolition dollars. One of the things that's important to note is that we continue to do demolitions that are in response to regular, you know, activity.
I can only guesstimate about what that would be between now and October. I would have consult with the folks at L&I. And then we're in the process of revising the schedule that was in the book because there has been some slippage on time, but we do hope to at least gotten notices receipt, if I remember correctly, in two or three areas so that we can be underway there and have those under contract.
When do you expect the first demolitions to take place?
With the targeted area, we're looking at sometime in -- I believe we wanted the notice to proceed out by the end of this fiscal year. Then I believe it's about 103 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 another four to six weeks by the time you finish the asbestos removal. So I would say the beginning of August, mid-August.
Mid-August, okay. Now, we received the responses from last week's hearing. I think we received them yesterday. Is that the third 3rd?
The memo indicates that you're still obtaining some responses and you'll forward them to us shortly. For the ones that have not been responded to, do you know when you'll have the information?
I would say no later than -- what's today, Tuesday? I'm losing track of time. No later than Wednesday. I have to go back -- I think some information may have went to my office as opposed to the Chief of Staff's office, so it's just making sure we got everything. But we pretty much was close to everything, if I recall correctly. 104 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285
Let me to ask a question on the first issue. The question was, Is wrap-up insurance reflected in the City's Five-Year Plan? The answer was, "The wrap-up insurance will cost $6 million. The first million of that 6 million was included in a FY '02 midyear transfer ordinance passed by Council this spring and that the remaining five will come out of the difference between the amount of the debt service included for the NTI bonds in the FY '03 budget and the amount of debt service that is likely to actually be spent." Do we have a debt service schedule now based on the bonds? You quoted $143 million in bonds?
Yeah, we floated around 150 million, 145. I can get that from the Trustee or Redevelopment Authority. I don't have it with me
Do you know what that difference is? What's the first year of 105 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 Debt Service in FY '03 and what's the actual?
I would have to look that up. I don't know. I may have it in some paper with me.
Now, the rest of that answer is, "During the budget hearings, the Administration told City Council that if actual debt service costs were lower than the amount included in the FY '03 budget, the savings used to pay for NTI-related activities." Do you know who told us that and when did they tell us? And what was the context of raising that issue?
I believe that was part of the conversation that we had with respect to either the mid-year transfer -- we had a lot of hearings.
The mid-year transfer ordinance or one of the hearings back in December. I couldn't say who said it or when it was said.
But you're saying 106 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 that the million dollars was in mid-year transfer ordinance?
You're saying that the million dollars was in the mid-year transfer ordinance and it was identified as a million dollars for insurance.
Oh, yes; oh, yes. In fact, at that time we also submitted an explanation as to what was wrap-up insurance and the like. We testified to that.
If you could find that out, I'd be intrigued about that. And you said you can get us a debt service schedule based on the financing that was done?
Now, what all qualifies as NTI-related activities, because there's been a lot of discussion about what NTI is. It is very comprehensive. I understand it's 107 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 a framework, it has many components. What qualifies?
Before you respond, Miss Smith, let me remind my colleagues that there's an L&I Committee hearing at 1:00 as well. Thank you.
Again, for example, cost treatment of vacant land via NTI-type of activities. So we're doing things like the cleaning and sealing -- I mean, the cleaning of vacant lots. Any type of extra treatments that might be done to vacant land. One of the other things is the sealing of buildings, which historically has not been done very aggressively within the City.
I understand that. I guess I'm just trying to understand --
So it would be activities that wouldn't be appropriate to fund out of the bond proceeds that further the objectives of blight elimination and neighborhood preservation.
Are Any personnel 108 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 eligible --
With regard to -- I had asked you about some information related to the 4th District because I think I need to try to know as much about what's going to happen and we only have the current example of the pilot program. The question was providing steps for the 4th district in finalizing property lists and yes, it is absolutely true that by e-mail, I received two PDF files with dangerous and vacant buildings in the district. And subsequently, there was a meeting over again at Fleming on 4/29. Had I not asked you the question about the follow-up materials, would I have actually received the list on the same day that I asked a question?
I know you won't believe it, but it was actually transmitted separately while we were in the hearing. It went over as a part of the regular process. I know it sounds 109 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 like quite a coincidence. When I asked him to do it, he said, "I just did it."
I know you won't believe it, but it was the regular process. It wasn't just done in response to the question.
I wish I had asked earlier. And so now you're waiting for us to have a follow-up discussion about those lists and the maps that were miraculously provided at the same time as the hearing; is that what we're going to do?
Councilman, do you have many more questions? Do you have many more questions?
We have an 110 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 L&I hearing due at 1:00.
I understand Madam Chair. I'm on the committee and I have a bill in there.
Okay. You're saying you do have a lot more questions?
No, I didn't say I have a lot more. I said I do have a few more.
All right. Does anyone else have any questions here? I know Councilwoman Tasco has to leave. We would like to conclude. I have only one question. Councilman Kenney, do you have any more questions?
All right. Councilman Nutter, thank you. And the Chair notes that Councilman O'Neill is here. All right, Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Miss McColloch, I'll come back to you 111 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 in a second. One of the questions had to do with the planning area in West Philadelphia and the response is that the current listing of 28 neighborhood planning areas, neighborhoods and 6 3 corridors a significant amount of work, which I 7 certainly acknowledge, but the conclusion is that 8 because of all of that you cannot include any 9 other areas of West Philadelphia. And I guess I 10 was trying to understand who decided about the 25 11 neighborhoods and the three corridors and when 12 was that decision made? 13
I just wanted to start 14 off to say that when we sat down with each 15 individual district Councilpersons back in April, 16 approximately, initially, we had started off 17 with, you know, 13 areas which we thought we 18 would be able to handle in terms of the capacity 19 because, you know, the planning process is a very 20 -- how can I put it -- labor-intensive activity. 21 And even though we have augmented the staff of 22 the City Planning Committee, we wanted to make 23 sure that we were able to do that. In response 24 to conversations we had with each of the District 25 Councilpeople, we expanded and tried to be 112 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 responsive to those issues and looking at that really we were going to try to rely on looking at existing plans so we don't have to do a lot of groundwork. So it's a question of managing, you know, our capacity to deliver. What we don't want to do is, you know, make promises and raise people's expectations and then aren't able to follow through on that.
I understand that. The question was, who decided which neighborhoods were going to be included in the first?
Good afternoon, Councilman. The process was a collaborative effort between Planning Commission staff, the Administration, and Councilmembers. As I had indicated last week during the hearing, the initial planning, neighborhood planning areas were identified and recommended by our community planners within the Planning Commission. Each of those areas was then discussed with each individual Councilmember to identify and to 113 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 confirm whether those areas were adequate, whether those areas needed to be expanded or the boundaries modified, or whether the area altogether needed to be replaced by another area which was the case for some Councilmembers.
Was there any recollection of my mentioning that there was this little place out on the western side of the City called West Philadelphia and that there was already and had been produced before we even knew these new language terms that there was a West Philadelphia plan and should be a part of this process? Does anybody have any recollection of that?
There was a document produced by the Planning Commission.
Yes. That is a document produced by the Planning Commission. Again, we in consultation with our community planners had identified several other areas within your district that were felt to be more appropriate for Year 1, and they were then presented to you 114 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 as such.
I appreciate your feeling. Let me try to understand this. There's one area in West Philadelphia where there's going to be a significant amount, at least by West Philadelphia standards, a significant amount of demolition. We pretty much know that even though we just got the areas last week.
Isn't that one of the areas that we would want to have as our priority in terms of planning, since we have no 14 idea at the moment what's going to be replaced, what's going to be demolished? Isn't that where you want to do planning?
Again, as I indicated in response to you, traditional planning activities would continue, the fact that all of the areas that you have identified or have expressed concerns about may not be reflected as a Year neighborhood planning area doesn't mean that other planning activities will not continue. Staff will continue to provide consultation services on neighborhood plans. Staff will 115 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 continue to attend community meetings and will offer assistance with data collection and analysis. Staff will offer assistance with more site-specific -- specific concerns as opposed to broad, comprehensive --
I understand that. But their priority -- I mean, they don't have limitless time. I assume that they have to make a priority out of the 28 areas or the initial repairs or whatever the number is 12 going to be. And then everybody else is going to 13 get what's left over, which is not going to be very much. So I've got one area, I'm very happy, Wynnefield, Parkside, wonderful.
But I've got another area that's going to see significant demolition activity and there is no strategic plan for what comes after it and it's not on the first year's list so it's going to get the leftover time, whatever somebody can scramble around and do. I don't want to be in that situation. 116 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285
As I indicated in our response, that because of the overwhelming response from Councilmembers that that expanded our list to 28, the Planning Commission did also indicate the need for technical assistance. And so we will be looking and identifying areas for consultant support, and we would be glad to sit down and talk with you about this particular area for possibly that kind of treatment.
All right. This is my last question in this area. Miss McColloch, you did respond and you and I had a discussion about the letter that I spent to you back in March with regard to 5946-48 Vine Street. I received your response, I think, in yesterday's mail.
It's certainly a detailed response. Let me try to cut to the chase. Are we going to be able to provide funding for the Edgar C. Campbell Foundation Building over there or not?
I'm Deborah McColloch, Director of Housing. I don't know the 117 6/4/02 - FINANCE - BILL 020275, RES. 020285 answer to that without having more information about what the activity is that's being proposed for the building. And getting some of this other information, which I don't just know from the letter that you had sent me who owns building and what they want to do with the building.
I believe the foundation owns the building. Is someone going to --