COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND CIVIL SERVICE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:30 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS, CHAIRMAN COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI BILL 050748 - An ordinance amending Title 6 of The Philadelphia Code by adding Chapter 6-900, relating to mold inspections... RESOLUTION 050772 - Resolution authorizing the Committee on Labor and Civil Service to hold public hearings to investigate the prevalence and problem of mold... - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good morning, everyone. This is the public hearing for the Committee on Labor and Civil Service. We have a quorum, so I would like to get started. To my right, Councilman Jim Kenney, Councilman Frank DiCicco, Councilman Wilson Goode, Jr. To my left, the President of City Council, Anna Verna. I am Juan Ramos, Chair of the Committee. Mr. Goode is the Vice-Chair of this Committee. Thank you for serving as Vice-Chair. Before we start, I would like to note for the record that Bill No. 18 050795, at the request of the sponsor, is being held today, so this Committee will not be taking testimony regarding that bill. I would ask the Clerk to please read both the title of the ordinance and resolution.
Bill 050748, an 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 ordinance amending Title of The Philadelphia Code by adding Chapter 4 6-900, relating to mold inspections; providing for licensing of residential mold inspectors; and requiring buyers of residential properties to have a licensed mold inspector conduct a comprehensive mold inspection if a home inspection identifies mold or water intrusion; all under certain terms and conditions; and Resolution 050722, authorizing the Committee on Labor and Civil Service to hold public hearings to investigate the prevalence and problem of mold and further investigate ways to set standards to help the citizens of the City of Philadelphia with mold and mold remediation.
Thank you. The first witness to testify this morning is Mr. Izzat Melhem. He's the Assistant Manager of Environmental Health Services in the Department of Public Health. 4 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 Good morning, Mr. Melhem. Will you please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Yes. Good morning, Councilman. My name is Izzat Melhem. Good morning, Chairman Ramos and members of the Committee on Labor and Civil Service. My name is Izzat Melhem. I'm the Assistant Director of Environmental Health Services with the Department of Public Health. Thank you for the opportunity to present testimony on the proposed ordinance amending Title 6 of The Philadelphia Code by adding Chapter 6-900, relating to mold inspections of residential property. One of the responsibilities of the Department of Public Health is to investigate environmental conditions that will lead to the spread of communicable disease or injury. In this role, we respond to requests from the public and other City agencies to investigate 5 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 complaints of unsanitary or unsafe conditions in public places and in establishments to which the public has access. With some exceptions, health-related conditions in residential units fall under the City's Property Maintenance Code, the provisions of which are enforced by the Department of Licenses and Inspections. The Department of Public Health does provide consultation to Philadelphia residents, both property owners and rental unit occupants, on health-related issues such as insect and rodent control, indoor air problems or mold growth. The Department receives a number of calls on indoor mold growth issues, which have increased over the past five years from an average of one call per month to one per day, which shows a marked increase in awareness of possible health-related effects of indoor mold growth. 6 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 While most molds found indoors are not actually toxic to humans, persons can be allergic to molds, and exposure to molds are known to exacerbate asthma in humans, highlighting the need for requirements for mold inspections and certification of mold remediation inspectors. Conditions related to poor maintenance such as the infiltration of moisture from leaking plumbing or roofs will support the abundant growth of mold indoors. Mold spores, which are invisible, are ubiquitous to the indoor and outdoor environment. Because no 17 quantifiable governmental standards have been established for mold exposure, the observation of the presence of visible mold by a qualified mold inspector is a standard criteria currently in practice. Passage of this bill will be a beginning for the Department of Public Health in the development and adoption of regulations that will protect home buyers 7 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 in Philadelphia from purchasing a property with an existing indoor mold problem. Prior to purchase, if a home inspection reveals evidence of water intrusion or visible mold growth, this bill ensures that a mold inspection will be conducted and by a certified mold inspector. It is for these reasons that the Department of Public Health supports passage of this bill. Mechanisms through which the Department will address specifics such as the notification processes, enforcement for failure to comply with the mold inspection requirement and monitoring compliance with the regulation will need to be addressed. If this bill is passed, Philadelphia will be joining the states of California and Texas and the City of New York in being on the forefront of passing legislation on indoor mold. Legislation to address mold in the indoor environment has been proposed and task 8 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 forces have been convened in several other states as well. That's my testimony. If you have any questions, I'd be glad to answer them.
Thank you so much for your testimony. For the record, I believe we circulated your version of your testimony that we got yesterday, and I think that, for the record, there were some changes in the final paragraph or so of your testimony; is that correct?
That is correct. I received this -- the final version was rewritten and sent back to me by our Commissioner's office.
Understood. Can you please answer why the change and what was the difference?
I apologize for the change and for you not having an updated version of the testimony. I don't know the exact reason for the change, to be honest with you. I think 9 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 it was just slightly reworded, if my understanding is correct. I think it was just a matter of how it was worded.
Yes. I think when you continued to read, it seems like you got into, and correct me if I'm wrong, just a further explanation of your reasoning for the support of this legislation.
That is correct. I think we kind of wanted to clarify that and try to, I guess, make it easy to see why we're supporting this.
Are there any questions for this witness from Committee members? (No response.)
Do you see yourself continuing to be involved, apart from your support for this piece of legislation and hoping that this legislation passes in this body? Do you see yourself more involved -- there's more to do besides what the legislation 10 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 calls upon at this time.
Well, personally, yes, and as part of the organization, absolutely. You know, as I said, we've been receiving more and more calls, whether they be complaints or just requests for information, on mold and mold exposure, and I think what we're really trying to keep an eye on is the national trend in dealing with this issue, because as I stated in my testimony, there are currently no 14 standards for exposure to mold. And the way we're going right now, and it seems the trend in other jurisdictions, is to make people more aware of it and try to make them aware of the fact that exposure to this may or may not have an effect, but that it's not a good thing to be sharing an environment with mold.
Thank you, Mr. Melhem, for your testimony this morning.
It was my 11 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 pleasure, and thank you for the opportunity.
The next witness on our list is Mr. Otis Haigler, Director of Legislative Affairs for the Department of License and Inspection for the City of Philadelphia. Good morning, Mr. Haigler. Will you please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good day, Councilman Ramos and members of the Committee. I am Otis Haigler, Jr., Director of Legislative Affairs for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. Today I'm here to provide testimony on Bill 050748, which, if enacted, will add new requirements to The Philadelphia Code to regulate inspections for the presence of mold in residential occupancies. The Department of Licenses and Inspections, as a public safety department, supports any initiative that will provide safeguards to protect the 12 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 health and safety of the citizens who reside in our City. To that end, we have actively participated in meetings chaired by Councilman Ramos over the past two years where the issue of microbial mold contamination as found in residential occupancies was discussed in-depth. Bill 050748 introduced in September of this year contain many suggestions from those meetings for ways to address mold inspections, with an emphasis toward the protection of the consumer who engages this type of service or inspection service. Bill 050748 will require a comprehensive inspection for mold in cases where the buyer of a residential property is offered and has elected to have a home inspection conducted on the sales property and where the results of this inspection indicates that water intrusion has occurred or that the presence of visible mold growth is evident. 13 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 A further requirement to have a trained individual in the area of mold inspection to conduct the more detailed inspection for mold will ensure that the buyer is fully aware of the presence of mold and the risks associated with exposure that could cause harm to the buyer or the buyer's family prior to the completion of the real estate transaction. This bill will also provide additional protection to either party involved in the real estate transaction, whether that is the buyer or seller of the property who engages the services of a mold inspector, by requiring the mold inspector to be licensed by the Department of Licenses and Inspections after having met certain qualifications related to education, training and insurance. We believe this will protect the consumer from persons who would misrepresent themselves as qualified to conduct this type of inspection and 14 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 provide a remedy if liability issues arise following the inspection. Provisions have also been made in the bill for the Department of Health to promulgate regulations which will set forth specific requirements for how the inspections are conducted. Finally, to address conflicts that might occur within the different inspection disciplines and remedial contractors involved in this process, provisions have been made in the bill 14 which specify that the person performing one function related to the discovery or presence of mold at a location may not perform work in another area or other areas involved with inspection or removal of mold from the location. This will ensure that the consumer receives a fair and honest evaluation of the property without any inducements, either real or implied, that might call into question the integrity of the inspection process. Thank you for the opportunity 15 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 to provide the Department's testimony on Bill 050748. I will be happy to answer any questions at this time.
Thank you for your testimony. Any questions from members of the Committee for this witness? (No response.)
Mr. Haigler, you've been with us from the very beginning in trying to put together a bill that, one, would address the issue of health concerns that we are now aware of in the country concerning mold exposure. You know that as well that we wanted to make sure that consumers knew basic information about the effects of mold and also home buyer protection, the home buyer that has bought a property. In this case, in this bill, it does not stop the sale of the property, but it does let the potential home buyer know that there is a degree of mold in this property. 16 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 These are some of the literature by the EPA and these are some places where there's some training that is certified by the state where you can go and get yourself properly trained to qualify as a mold inspector. So you've been a part of this process with us that these were the basic criterias that although we've been working on this for almost two years, we didn't want it to become a very comprehensive piece of legislation, because I thought that there will probably be some other additions in the future that will complement or add to this piece of legislation. Since you got this involved with us, how do you see your Department doing other things along this area of mold remediation in our City?
Well, Councilman, again, we are very, very concerned about issues related to health and safety. That's our mission. Our mission is to 17 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 safeguard the public. We would, by all means, avail ourselves to the Health Department or any other department that we could get some additional training. We're not specifically trained in the area of mold. We're not expert in mold training and mold remediation, but what we do is, we go out, we do our inspections, we cite the proper individuals to make sure that they comply with the Code, and we would, I guess, basically just do the best we can as far as making sure that the persons who get their licenses, that they're qualified to do the type of inspections that need to be done to address this serious issue.
Thank you, Mr. Haigler, for your testimony and for your tremendous help in putting together this piece of legislation.
Our next witness is Mr. Roscoe Green, Executive 18 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 Director of the Laborers' District Council Education Training/Apprentice Fund. Good morning, Mr. Green. Will you please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
My name is Roscoe Green. I am Training Director for the Laborers' District Council Education and Training Fund and affiliate of Laborers' ADC Education and Training Fund located in Pomfret, Connecticut. I've been associated with the education and training since 1976. I've been affiliated with the Laborers' District Council Training Fund since 1982. We're one of over 75 training programs located throughout the United States and Canada. We do apprenticeship training, journeyman training and specialty training. Our program has been involved with the development of the mold worker training since 2001, and we served as the 19 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 host for the pilot program of the first Laborers' ADC mold remediation class. The class that we currently do now is an eight-hour class. It's for trainees that have been certified in asbestos, lead or hazardous waste. And the reason why we do it that way is because previous training with personal protective equipment, respiratory protection and the protocol for doing the work is already done with the previous classes. So our one eight-hour-day class is in addition to previous certification that the students have. In doing the research for mold remediation and mold inspection, one would find over 100,000 sites that specifically talk about mold inspection training. One of the things that can be learned from studying these sites is that there is a tremendous need for minimum and uniform standards, consistent protocol for doing tests, and performing those tests competently. 20 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 Given the fact that there are currently no federal or state certifications for mold-related activities or services, it's imperative and very important that cities and municipalities, state governments and eventually federal governments get involved with regulating this potentially very, very hazardous and health-related area and that the regulations cover not only the protection of the consumer, the worker, contractors, cities, municipalities and health departments, but also the general health of the community in terms of how mold can be affecting several different areas of the economy and the health of the particular neighborhoods. The ordinance such as the one being introduced and discussed today must be structured to protect the consumer, the worker, the community and the City government from substandard activities. One of the things that there's always a 21 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 concern for again is uniformity, that whatever is eventually developed and put forth in this ordinance, that there be a uniformity that covers all the areas that I just mentioned. I'd like to thank the Council for this opportunity to present the statement, and if there are any questions, I'd like to answer them at this point.
Thank you, Mr. Green, for your testimony. Any questions from Committee members of Mr. Green? (No response.)
Mr. Green, you have been in the training aspect of remediation in the environmental field for a lot of years. You mentioned, just for clarity, you mentioned that you already have a program that trains workers on remediation of mold?
And is that 22 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 certified by the state, the federal government? How do you go about your training facility being certified to do that type of training?
Right. Again, the issue about there not being any state or federal regulations presents this problem in developing any of those programs, and, that is, that due to the fact that there are not any federal, state regulations, you have to take protocol and establish procedures that have been developed in related areas and use those as a benchmark to develop programs in mold. From that, we use our previous experience, which now is probably about 30 years of experience with asbestos, lead and hazardous waste, to set those protocols. There is very little difference between procedural things, personal protective equipment and protocol for doing testing, clean air checks and that sort of thing that exist in the mold area that have not previously 23 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 been developed in asbestos, lead and hazardous waste. So what we do is, we use that experience and set the highest standard that we can given the information that we have and training and technical things that are currently available and we establish our benchmark for our mold work.
Mr. Green, do you see contractors in this region utilizing what I hear is a common practice in the region using trained workers to do mold remediation?
No, I don't. What happens, and again the research shows, that you have a wide variety of different things that are being used by contractors to say that their workers can do the work and their inspectors can do the work. Classes for mold inspection, for instance, research shows that they can run from a six-hour online course to a three-day course to a 40-hour course in 24 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 different parts of the country. If you were to ask contractors that are doing the work to present credentials and certifications on the people that are doing the work, most of them would be using one of those types of training. An example of, again, the benchmark that we set that other contractors and other organizations may not is the area of hazardous waste. We do an 80-hour hazardous waste course. The first week involves regulations, protocol, that sort of thing. The second week involves actual hands-on simulation of doing hazardous waste work. Most companies only require and train their people in what's a 40-hour or 32-hour hazardous waste course. So we look at the way we approach doing hazardous waste as going over and above what the normal training protocol has been so that our workers are better prepared for the issues and the things 25 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 that they'll run into out in the field. I would use that same sort of approach in terms of mold remediation or mold inspection, mold testing, that you take and go beyond the call of duty in establishing the highest possible standards for that area.
Do you have a course now available for training in mold inspection?
Again, we're putting together some items that we think will meet the standards that we normally set for doing that work, and look forward to developing and putting together a pilot program within the next few months.
Will that program be designed also for mold inspectors to do residential? Because in this bill, it is primarily in the area of residential homes. Would the training be also geared because there is a difference between -- I have a little bit of a background in this as well, in the 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 remediation end, that outside of the commercial, the work that contractors probably -- I assume that those are the ones that will use your facilities or the unions will use your facilities to train people to get this remediation work done. Would it be able to fit a mold inspector that is not an inspector on a big renovation of a downtown building but a person that will go out to Joe Smith's who wants to buy a house and the home inspector has told him, I see seepage of water in your basement, you need to go get, per City ordinance, you need to go get a mold inspector? Will your facility have that type of training to also make it available to this type of mold inspector that is called for in this piece of legislation?
Right. I think what may eventually have to happen in developing any of these classes, that you have to make distinctions in terms of the 27 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 level of competency you're trying to reach. So within putting these courses together, it's certainly possible and probably probable that you would make a differentiation between what the residential mold inspector would have to do and then what levels especially you may need to have when doing commercial properties or any other type of mold inspections.
Thank you, Mr. Green. Thank you for your testimony and all your time.
Our next witness is Mr. Scott Schneider. He's the Director of Occupational Safety and Health, Laborers' Health and Safety Fund of North America. Thank you, Mr. Schneider, for taking the time from your busy schedule to testify here today in Philadelphia. I believe you came from Washington. Thank you so much for your time and concern 28 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 about this important issue. Will you please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
My name is Scott Schneider, and I want to thank you for the opportunity to testify on this resolution and ordinance concerning mold. I'm the Director of Occupational Safety and Health for the Laborers' Health and Safety Fund of North America. It's a joint labor-management non-profit affiliated with the Laborers' International Union of North America, or LIUNA. The Laborers' Union represents about 800,000 mostly construction workers in the U.S. and Canada. Our members do a wide range of construction work, from road and building construction to demolition and hazardous waste work. They also do what we call environmental work, including asbestos and lead abatement and mold remediation. 29 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 A few years ago, we worked closely with our Training Funds to develop a course to teach workers how to do microbial remediation. That course is being taught at several training centers, including, as you heard, at our Exton Training Center. The course is a 32-hour course for those without asbestos abatement training and includes hands-on training to teach workers how to set up and use containment areas. The Laborers are currently training hundreds of workers in the Gulf on mold remediation to help with the massive clean-up effort underway there. I would like to applaud the efforts of the Council in introducing this resolution and ordinance as an important first step towards protecting consumers and workers from exposure to mold. For those who are particularly susceptible to mold, such as those with asthma, allergies to mold or immunocompromised, exposure can be a 30 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 serious health hazard. There are at least states 4 that have introduced some mold-related 5 legislation in the past few years. Most 6 have set up task forces or advisory 7 committees to look into the problem. 8 Others have begun licensing inspectors, 9 contractors and workers. 10 Some states have focused on the 11 problem in schools, while others have 12 turned their attention to homes. Some 13 cities, like New York City, have issued 14 guidelines for mold remediation. EPA has also issued its own guidance for problems in schools. Texas has gone the farthest in new regulations finalized last year that requires licensing of inspectors, contractors and workers. Much of this is in response to problems people have had with new construction, which allowed leakage of water and mold growth, and with contractors coming in and cleaning up a mold problem, only to have them return 31 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 later. Unfortunately, at this point, there are more questions than answers. Some of the major issues that have come up include what should the qualifications be for a mold inspector; what liability might an inspector have, for example, if they declare a building mold free but missed some and inhabitants later get sick; and what qualifications will the insurance industry place on inspectors in order to provide them professional liability insurance; how do we make sure that they find hidden mold, which can be inside walls, HVAC systems, on duct lining, behind wallpaper, underneath carpeting, in pipe chases and anywhere else moisture can accumulate; how can we make sure contractors are competent and qualified to clean up mold problems; how can we ensure that workers who are cleaning up mold are properly trained and protected; and how can we ensure that new buildings that are built are properly 32 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 designed to keep out moisture and prevent mold growth. Right now there are no 5 definitive answers to these questions. Developing criteria and qualifications for inspectors is an important first step. I encourage you to continue the dialogue and move forward cautiously. I look forward to working with the Council on this important issue, and I would be happy to entertain questions.
Thank you so much, Mr. Schneider. Do the members of this Committee have any questions for our witness? (No response.)
Mr. Schneider, I just want to again go on record, thank you so much for taking time from your schedule in Washington, D.C. You have been involved, by all the information I've gotten and a little bit I've talked to you in person, about 33 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 Ms. King from, I believe it's, a related department.
Yes. She has been with us in this process a number of times, and we have so much taken in her wealth of experience and knowledge of this business of remediation, particularly mold remediation. Can you tell us just a little bit more, if you don't mind, about your background?
And I appreciate the questions that you posed to us. You and I talked a little bit and my legislative aide, Mr. Zalenski, and you have talked about some of the recommendations. I think they're very good questions and very good recommendations. If everything goes well here in the legislative process and this bill is 34 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 approved by the members of this Council, what I would want to do is form a task force immediately to address these questions and to make this work, particularly for consumers and for people to know, those consumers to know as home buyers, a little bit more about this problem of mold and what this law does to help them gain knowledge and how to access remediation, if that is their choice. So thank you, and I'm asking you to, if you have the time, to join us in this task force, pending the decision of this Council.
But tell us a little bit more about your background in this line of work.
Sure. I'm an industrial hygienist by trade, and I got my industrial hygiene degree years 25 ago, and since then, I've been working -- 35 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772
An industrial hygienist is somebody who is trained -- I have a Master's in public health basically to go and look at health and safety hazards in the workplace and to identify controls and remediation, corrective measures to protect the health of workers from health hazards and safety hazards on the job. And I spent the last years 14 in Washington working for a variety of 15 labor unions looking at doing health and 16 safety, developing training materials, 17 helping our contractors improve safety on 18 their job sites. And I did as part of my 19 work back in the early '80s, mid '80s 20 testified before OSHA and before EPA on 21 their asbestos regulations and helped 22 them formulate their training 23 requirements that they have now in place 24 nationwide for training for asbestos 25 inspectors, asbestos workers, asbestos 36 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 contractors and asbestos supervisors. And I've also done work on lead exposure issues with a variety of unions. I've been with the Laborers seven years, and the Laborers Union is one of the few that has a national joint Health and Safety Fund, joint Labor-Management Fund, and we're here really basically to help our employers and help our members provide safe workplaces.
Thank you, Mr. Schneider. Any questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Is there anyone else who wishes to testify regarding this bill or resolution, please come forward to the witness table. (No response.) 37 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772
Seeing none, this will conclude our public hearing, and we will now move to the public meeting. We are in the public meeting, and the Chair recognizes Councilman Wilson Goode for a motion on Bill 050748.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that Bill 050748 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Council session. (Duly seconded.)
It's been properly seconded. All those in favor signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it. It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 050748 be reported 38 11/15/05 - LABOR - BILL 050748 - RES. 050772 out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the rules of Council be suspended to permit first reading of this bill at our next Council meeting. In regards to Resolution 050722 related to this bill, this Committee will stand in recess to the call of the Chair. This concludes our hearing. Thank you very much for your participation. (Committee on Labor and Civil Service adjourned at 11:05 a.m.) - - - 39 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on November 15, 2005, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)