Can you give us -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.) COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: -- but they're there.
Can you give us those fifteen cases and what the violations were and what the sanctions were? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I can go back 56 11/14/00 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - BILLS 000180, 181 and get a list for the number of these violation cases that we've had, sure.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Roundtree, we've referenced several times -- you have today and earlier in our discussion -- that the two or three, maybe four programs that you would like to duplicate, and understanding that they're not the best-case scenario, but before we end, I think as we move ahead, we're going to ask people to duplicate that. Before we move ahead, could you get me the numbers on the current placement and training program? Because, you know, I think at a minimum, we referenced those.
And I want to make sure that we're referencing the right program.
Mr. Applebaum, on the bids, and not necessarily relating to this 57 11/14/00 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - BILLS 000180, 181 bill, traditionally, what's the percentage, the range of the percentages of bids that come in? Is there usually like a percent discrepancy in 5 bids, a 10 percent, 15, 20? I mean, is there a broad range? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: What do you mean by "discrepancies"?
Well, I'm saying in terms of the range of the respondents bid for a contract -- a request for a proposal either in the Office of Housing or in any other service contract related to the City of Philadelphia. When you see these responses, are the bids traditionally relatively close or are they wide-ranging? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: There is no 17 quick answer to that question. I have seen gigantic distortions in bid responses where the low bidder has left enormous amounts of money on the table -- 20, 30 percent differentials. Then we have other bids that are so close, they're within or percent. So there's no generalization that I can make on that -- to respond to that question. We have both. We have some that are extremely close 58 11/14/00 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - BILLS 000180, 181 and some that are extremely --
You have this thing called "the lowest responsible bidder," but sometimes somebody comes in with a ridiculous number that we know that person can't meet that goal. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Right. There's a law in the world of public works that if a bidder ends up making a serious mistake and he has underbid by a significant amount of dollars, he can within hours notify our office and is 13 given the opportunity to prove to the Operating 14 Department and the Procurement Department that 15 they truly did make a mistake with their work 16 papers and with their documents. And if they 17 have, we will release them from that bid 'cause 18 they're not -- it's a non-responsive bid. 19 But generally speaking -- 20
Are they then 21 allowed to resubmit? 22 COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: No. He's put 23 away and we then would award to the next bidder. 24
All right. You say that in some cases, it's between and percent. 59 11/14/00 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - BILLS 000180, 181 Is that the majority of cases? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I would say in the majority of cases, the bid responses are usually within reasonable ranges, but there are some bids that are gigantic splits.
Right, but the majority are within -- COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: The majority are within reason.
Okay. If the -- most of the respondents and I guess you guys can help me on this also -- for these various RFPs, do you get a sense that if it's a local respondent, that they more than likely will have local residents on their payroll? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: No. 18
Or housing. A large number of the contractors are non-local and they employ a large number -- I'd say maybe more than 60 11/14/00 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - BILLS 000180, 181 half of their permanent workforce are non-local in general. So in answer to your question, the assumption that a local contractor will employ local residents, the number of local contractors participating, maybe it's half, 60, 70 percent, but a large number of the contracts -- successful contractors are non-local contractors.
When you're saying "local," are you referencing the City of Philadelphia or local in the region?
I would say Philadelphia County and the surrounding counties.
Let me be more specific. If there's a business that has a business, say, at Brad and Champlost, all right, will his workforce traditionally be from the City of Philadelphia? Or would it be weighted towards having a workforce from the City of Philadelphia?
Councilman, if it's a commercial project, we have no way to tell, even if it's at Broad and Champlost and he's drawing from union labor, union labor is a metropolitan area. Unless you have -- 61 11/14/00 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - BILLS 000180, 181
Well, if you do wage compliance, don't you have a sense of where they --
No, we don't. The Minority Business Enterprise Council does not do wage compliance. I don't know if Housing does.
Councilman Clarke, I don't see the day-to-day workforce demographics for housing projects, but Michael Bell -- I can give 62 11/14/00 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - BILLS 000180, 181 you that information really quickly. Where the number of local residents on -- for the local contractor, we can look at the housing projects, I can go back and ask Michael, if you give me a day or two, and answer this question generally. The projects that we send to you on a monthly basis, why don't we -- I can have Michael go through those. Well, the report shows -- well, the reports that we submitted to you on monthly basis have one list, resident versus nonresident.
It lists the project, the individual contractor, and I think it gives a person's name and address.
So you should be able to -- let me tell you where I'm going with this. In my limited interaction with contractors here and there, it's -- I've gotten a sense that if the contractor is a contractor in the City of Philadelphia, his workforce is, more often than not, a Philadelphia workforce, and that's just 63 11/14/00 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - BILLS 000180, 181 been my history in interacting with contractors. And I'm trying to get a sense that if somehow -- and I'll actually have a bill coming down the pike, if somehow we have a local contractor, the likelihood of them having local participants on their workforce is more likely than not.
It's really going to depend on the size of the project as to the level of local residents he has. The smaller it is, the more prevalent that that will occur. The larger it is, it's just the opposite. Because he has to draw from the trade unions. And unless you consider Philadelphia SMSA as local, then he draws from the SMSA first, Pennsylvania second, Delaware, New Jersey, and that and far. . .
And that's been my experience on the commercial projects. Most of the commercial projects are -- the contractors are regional, the workforce is drawn regional and sometimes national. So that's -- Mr. Roundtree's comment, I can just second what he's just said. When you have prevailing wages requirements, you have 64 11/14/00 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - BILLS 000180, 181 non-local contractors and a majority of the workforce is going to be non-local. And that's in Philadelphia and in the metropolitan area. For example, just look at the Ritz, and this is just through August, but 35 -- 39 percent of the workforce, these are workers, were from the Philadelphia surrounding suburban areas, and 9 percent was from New Jersey. So. . . 10
All right. Can you 11 just kind of give me -- just take a list, and it 12 could be small contractors, if you're saying that 13 the likelihood of small contractor, more often 14 than not, they will have local people. I'd just 15 like to see that in writing 'cause I'm going 16 somewhere else with another bill as it relates to 17 procurement practices. 18
I will commit to work 20 with Kevin Brooks' office to get that to you, 21 Councilman. 22
All right, great. 23 Thank you. 24 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 25
Thank you, 65 11/14/00 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - PUBLIC MEETING Councilman. If there are no further questions, we're going to move into a public meeting in order to take action on these two particular bills. (No further questions.)
Seeing none, we'll adjourn the public hearing and move into a public meeting. - - -
I'd like to ask for a motion on Bill No. 180 and I would ask that Councilman Ortiz, if you would make an appropriate motion, with a suspension of the rules, I would appreciate it.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 180 be moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit hearing at the next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It's been moved and properly seconded. All in favor will signify by saying aye. 66 11/14/00 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - PUBLIC MEETING Any opposed, say nay. The ayes have it. The Chair calls on Councilman Clarke for a motion on Bill No. 181.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I make a motion that Bill No. 181 be reported out of committee with favorable recommendation and a suspension of the rules as to allow first reading at our next session of Council.
It's been moved and properly seconded with a motion on Bill No. 181. All in favor, signify by saying aye. Any opposed, say nay. The ayes have it. Bills No. 180 and 181 both have been reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and rules suspensions. There's no further business before the committee. Thank you very much. (Adjourned at 3:45 p.m.) - - - 67 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, November 14, 2000, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BILL NO.'S 000180, 000181 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter