Well, we're3 actually -- we haven't done the numbers4 for this year yet, but --5
But our average8 class sizes ranged for, like, core9 classes, depending on the grade and the10 type of school, in the mid- to high 20s.11 So from 25 to 27 students, depending on12 the kind of school.13 Now, that's for -- in the14 higher grades, where we have, you know, a15 curriculum with different courses and16 different subjects, we're doing that on17 the core courses, you know, language arts18 and math.19 There are lots of elective20 courses, where you have smaller numbers21 of students, because in order to make the22 roster work, that, you know, you need to23 do that.24 Keep in mind, too, that each25 146 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 individual teacher under the current2 collective-bargaining agreement has a3 maximum number of courses per day and a4 maximum number of minutes per day that5 they are required to teach and prep time6 periods.7 And when they are -- and then8 we have to have other teachers who teach9 during those prep time teachers to10 replace them. So it's not as simple as11 taking all of the teachers and all of the12 students and dividing one by the other.13
Well, I know14 it's not that simple. What I want to15 know is why we don't have an average16 class size of below 20 when it's 16.7. I17 mean, in other words, it seems like the18 delta shouldn't be that different from19 teachers per students, and this is not20 including special ed, okay, or21 assistants. It shouldn't be that22 different from teachers per students to23 what the overall ratio is in a school.24 Like, if you look at the25 147 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 parochial schools, you can do a very2 simple calculation, and basically, you're3 going to find out what the class size is4 in any different schools.5 If you look at school districts6 around the country, other school7 districts, you can see that -- get a8 better figure.9 So, frankly, that's what I'd10 like to ask you to do for us, is get back11 to the Chair information about the ten12 largest school districts in the country13 and tell us what percentage of their14 total budget is -- or what percentage of15 their total staff is teachers, just like16 you break it out on , but then17 also what percentage -- what their18 average class size is. And I'd like you19 to break it down for the School District20 and then for, you know, elementary,21 middle, and upper school.22 Now I'd like to just turn to23 and talk about the 46 percent for24 teachers. How much of the $2.5 billion25 148 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 does that constitute?2
I don't think I --3 I don't have that information here in4 terms of -- you want to know what the5 total teacher salaries and benefits are6 as a percent of the total wages and --7 total salaries and benefits of all of the8 workforce?9
Well, why10 don't you just break it down by each11 category --12
And then I'm17 trying to figure out where -- basically18 where the rest of our money is going.19 So what is "Other" on the chart20 on ?21
Well, that is any25 149 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 job class. We cut this off at a job2 class with 300 individuals in it.3 (Timer bell rings.)4
So, in other words,5 the rest of those employees are -- there6 might be more than one of them, but there7 might be, you know, 100 people in a8 particular job class, there might be 50,9 there might be 30. So we -- that's where10 we cut this off.11 So it's lots and lots of12 different positions, you know, across the13 School District. It's not one big14 category; it's lots and lots of small15 ones.16
Okay. Well,17 why don't you break it all the way down,18 then, when you provide the information,19 what we're spending per position of the20 $2.5 billion so that we can understand21 what percentage of the budget is actually22 going to things that serve students23 versus things that do not serve students.24 There was a -- I was at25 150 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 something called "Keystone Weekend" over2 the weekend, and education was a very hot3 topic in Pennsylvania. And one of the4 gubernatorial candidates said that one5 way to measure the effectiveness or the6 school district providing resources to7 students versus the bureaucracy is to ask8 a simple question:9 What percentage -- what money10 is being spent on teachers and direct11 classroom support versus everything else?12 And I think we're going to --13 I'm hoping I'm not disappointed by these14 numbers when I get them.15 I'll finish my questioning when16 the time comes back around.17 Thank you.18
Thank19 you, Councilman.20 Councilwoman Sanchez.21
Kind of22 continuing that line of thought, years23 back, I remember the number was -- we24 spent 61 cents per dollar in classroom25 151 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 instructions, and I think that's what2 you're looking for, looking at what we3 spend in class and classroom instruction.4
I'm actually5 looking to get a breakdown of total6 spending on the chart on so that7 I can do the math myself.8
Okay.9 Going back to, we were talking about10 money. One of the things that the11 Imagine 2014 talks about is all of the12 different systems that now comprise the13 School District.14 You have kind of this15 alternative school system, you have the16 charter school system, and the17 administration, but I notice that your18 Central Administration costs continue to19 rise.20 Can you talk about that?21 Because I would think that if we have22 less and less students, we would get a23 handle on that.24 And let me put that in context.25 152 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 I think it's -- you know, going back to2 Councilman Green's point, how are we3 ensuring that more money is getting into4 the classroom if our bureaucracy5 continues to grow while the number of6 kids that we serve decreases?7
Well, first of all,8 I want to assure you that the9 bureaucracy is -- we do not believe that10 this is a budget in which the bureaucracy11 is growing.12 We are proposing an increase of13 about 1100 staff positions, of which 57614 will be new teachers, 449 will be15 counselors, 53 will be in parent and16 community support, 19 will be in dropout17 prevention and recovery, and the net18 adjustment to personnel in all other19 areas is 18 FDEs.20 So teachers and counseling21 staff are the -- are the overwhelming22 category in which you're seeing those23 increases.24 Half of our increase in the25 153 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 budget for Central Administration is not2 for personnel or contracts or any of3 that; it is the return to our budget of4 an expense of about $23 million for5 temporary borrowing.6 Last year, we were fortunate7 enough to not have to do a temporary8 borrowing for cashflow purposes in the9 summer because the Commonwealth of10 Pennsylvania was able to relieve us of11 that burden by advancing the payments12 that they would normally make on a13 bimonthly base.14 Well, given the drop in State15 tax collections, the Commonwealth's16 cashflow is much thinner than it was, and17 we do not believe that they will have the18 ability to provide us with those cash19 advances this year. So, unfortunately,20 we're going to have to go back into the21 market.22 Most of the rest of what you23 see in the administrative support24 services is one-time expenditures through25 154 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 system upgrades and otherwise just the2 wage and salary increases for the3 existing staff under current collective-4 bargaining agreements and increase in5 health care costs from our health care6 carriers.7
So then8 you're saying to me that our9 administrative costs in Year 201010 proportionally is less than 2009, 2008.11 If we did a five-year review, are we12 spending less?13
On a five-year14 basis? I believe the answer would be15 absolutely yes, given the reductions in16 force that took place over the two years17 prior to this administration beginning.18 Virtually all of the cuts that19 were made, that 87 million in cuts that I20 described in '06, '07, and '08 were made21 out of the administrative budgets. The22 School Reform Commission directed the23 Administration not to make cuts in school24 budgets, so the only place that was left25 155 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 was out of those central offices.2 One of the anecdotes that I3 offer to show what happened over that4 period is this: We have about 3205 buildings and 24,000 employees. And when6 we began work this summer, I discovered7 that the City's Risk Management Office8 consisted of three people: A director,9 an analyst, and a secretary.10 (Timer bell rings.)11
And that is really12 not an a adequate level of staff to13 manage and procure all of the property14 and casualty insurance and monitor the15 Worker's Compensation and Injury On Duty16 programs for a workforce in a physical17 plant of the School District's size.18 Notwithstanding that, we're not19 going to make any substantial increases20 in Central Administration, but I will21 tell you that having been on the School22 Board in 2002 and left the District and23 then coming back in 2008, I am pretty24 stunned at how small many administrative25 156 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 offices are right now in terms of their2 complement.3
I'd like4 to look at that. If you could provide5 that for us, I think that would be6 beneficial because that's one of the7 things we hear all the time. So if you8 could provide that in your chart analysis9 that you submit --10
Thank you.16 In the chart, you're going to17 provide that information about18 administration. If you could also19 include administrative information about20 the top ten other school districts in the21 City -- I mean in the country.22 Thank you.23
Thank24 you very much.25 157 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171
We will endeavor to2 secure it. And we'll work through the3 Council of Great City Schools.4 Hopefully, we can find some good5 comparables.6
Thank you,10 Madam President.11 I'd like to go back to12 Councilman Goode's lead discussion on13 what's happening with our African-14 American boys, and I make the observation15 in your budget testimony, of the16 budget briefing, that you've added 1917 dropout prevention professionals.18 So with that in mind, and when19 you recognize that from K to 3, children20 learn to read, and from 3rd grade on,21 they read to learn, where do you think22 you begin to see triggers of a child23 beginning to show evidence that if you24 don't arrest them now, you will lose them25 158 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 by 9th grade?2 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: There3 are certainly several triggers, but the4 first would be Grade 3.5
Grade 3.6 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN:7 Students who leave the 3rd grade, without8 strong math and reading skill intact,9 will begin to display real difficulty in10 their academic progress. And as a former11 5th grade teacher, you can see it.12 By 6th grade, without serious13 interventions, you begin to see other14 behaviors.15
Mm-hmm.16 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN:17 Absenteeism, children getting into18 trouble. You get this over-19 identification, especially in African-20 American and Latino males, because they21 act out, and that's being viewed as a22 behavior problem --23
Mm-hmm.24 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: -- as25 159 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 opposed to an a academic issue.2
Yes.3 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: So4 Grade 3, Grade 6, and by Grade 9, if they5 make it to grade 9, it's usually by the6 end of 9th grade that they're going to7 drop out.8
I'm a9 former 3rd grade teacher, and I would10 agree with that.11 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: Okay.12
So, with13 that fact, where are your dropout14 prevention counselors focused in terms of15 staffing across the system?16 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: We17 are putting in place what we are calling18 student advisors again, along with our19 parent ombudsmen to focus our at our20 elementary grades and in our elementary21 schools, because we believe that that --22 addressing this issue of attendance,23 wraparound services, interventions, early24 interventions is what we're doing in25 160 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 Phase I of 2014.2 The other focus for us is a3 focus on making sure that children have4 early literacy. And so, we are putting5 reading teachers in all of our6 empowerment schools for next year.7
Mm-hmm.8 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN:9 Again, focused on grades kindergarten,10 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Grade. That's where11 we're going to put lots of resources to12 ensure that young people don't leave the13 3rd Grade without the requisite skills --14
Thank you15 very much.16 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: --17 that they need to have intact.18
That,19 coupled with your goal to move20 system-wide to smaller classrooms, where21 are you in that mission?22 'Cause we know a child performs23 far better than in a class of 15 than24 they will in a class of 30. And if25 161 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 teachers, for all of the right reasons,2 can't keep their eyes on 30 children and3 stay on top of their academic progress --4 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN:5 Right.6
So where7 are you with that long-term vision?8 And let me say that I'm pleased9 to see hard evidence, tangible evidence,10 that that is, in fact, happening.11 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: Yes.12 We have focused -- we're focusing this13 year at the early grades because we have14 lots of resources and reading teachers15 and other things that I talked about.16 Our kindergartens used to have17 up 30 students in them.18
Mm-hmm.19 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: And20 this year, our empowerment schools will21 go down to 20-to-1.22
And that's23 a total of how many schools?24 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: 85.25 162 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171
And that's2 85 out of a total in the system of...?3 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: I4 think 166 elementary.5
Okay.6 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: And7 in our in non -- it's 177, I'm told.8
So that9 might be a third of the goal.10 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: It11 will go down to 20-to-1, which is our12 ultimate goals over five years.13
Okay.14 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: In15 our other non-empowerment schools, they16 will go down to 24-to-1, from 30-to-1.17
Okay.18 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: So19 we're dropping six children just at Stage20 1. The goal is to get them to 20-to-121 also.22 And in all of the other early23 grades, primary grades, they are going24 down to 24-to-1 in 1st, 2nd and 3rd25 163 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 Grade.2
Okay.3 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: Which4 is a major, again, step, we believe, in5 making sure that class size is a major6 initiative for us 'cause we agree that7 teachers -- and you add the fact that8 they're going to have reading teachers9 for our lowest-performing students in the10 below basic, each of those young people11 will have a reading teacher-specialist12 working with the teacher, and we believe13 that we'll see accelerated gain.14
So that's15 a new add-on, for a lack of a better16 word --17 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN:18 That's right.19
-- in20 those schools.21 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: Yes.22
When we23 factor in that the Philadelphia region24 has 88-plus colleges, I'm curious to25 164 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 know, what is the nature of the School2 District's relationship with the3 department of educations of any of those4 colleges, because what I witness, as a5 parent with a child in public school,6 when you get enthusiastic, ambitious,7 wide-eyed, bushy-tailed, recent college8 grads, who do not understand the urban9 experience, there's a collision of10 efforts there.11 (Timer bell rings.)12
And so, is13 there -- has there been discussion to14 talk with department deans of education15 so that we can minimize that clash of16 cultures so that they can be more17 successful in educating urban children?18 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: Well,19 we have been definitely in contact and in20 early discussions with Cheyney, with21 Lincoln, and with Temple to look at how22 we can maybe work on a program that will23 truly focus on young people who want to24 come -- aspiring teachers who want to25 165 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 work in the urban school setting. We2 believe that that's really important.3
It's4 essential.5 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: And6 it's almost like an area -- they need an7 area of specialization --8
Mm-hmm.9 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: --10 like special ed or like reading11 instruction.12 And so, we're beginning those13 discussions with those three universities14 because they have sort of stepped up to15 say, Yes, this is where we want to16 partner with you.17
Mm-hmm.18 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: We do19 have a group of secondary -- I mean20 university partnerships, but we do see21 that this is a critical need that we do22 get enthusiastic young people who want to23 come, but they are totally unprepared for24 the kinds of challenges that our young25 166 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 people bring. It's not that they can't2 learn --3
Not at4 all.5 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: --6 learn that --7
And they8 want to give back. They have the9 authentic mission in their hearts to want10 to do, but we know the urban experience11 brings its own added set of challenges or12 opportunities, depending on how you see13 the glass.14 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: Yes.15 So we are focused on that.16 Kent McGuire has stepped up,17 and we've met now with the college18 presidents from the two universities I19 just spoke to you about.20 And then, for our new teachers21 who are coming in, we believe they need22 some heavy-duty support --23
Mm-hmm.24 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: -- as25 167 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 it relates to what to expect and how to2 be successful.3
Well, the4 only other comment I'll make, 'cause the5 bell has rung, is, that question was also6 raised five years ago, maybe nine years7 ago.8 And so, the theoretical9 statement was made that that's the way we10 need to go, that the hope here is that11 those discussions will lead to tangible,12 strategic, pipeline kind of opportunities13 for young people in college who14 ultimately end up in our schools better15 prepared to deal with our school16 children.17 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN:18 You're absolutely correct, and we're19 focusing on people in new -- who want to20 change careers. In the strategic plan,21 we want to focus on young people who are22 from Philadelphia, and high school,23 specifically getting them ready to go24 into teaching, and then offering them25 168 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 incentives to come back through2 scholarships paid for them.3
Yes.4 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: So I5 think that it's got to be a combination6 of working with the staff that we have --7
Sure.8 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: --9 and then growing our own.10 So that's already in place,11 and, actually, you will see some of that12 implemented in our summer institutes for13 teachers this summer.14
Okay.15 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: But16 you'll see a lot of it in the fall as we17 begin to lay this plan out and have it in18 place by -- some of this in place by the19 fall of this next school year.20
Thank you,25 169 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 Madam Chair.2 COUNCILWOMAN BLACKWELL:3 Certainly.4 Councilman Rizzo.5
Thank you,6 Madam Chair.7 Madam Chair, also, I'd like to8 point out and recognize in the audience9 today is Mr. Jerry Jordan, the President10 of the Philadelphia Federation of11 Teachers, so I didn't want that to slip12 by and --13
Thank14 you. He's on our agenda to testify15 waiting for you folks to finish asking16 your questions.17 (Laughter.)18
Good. But I19 just wanted to make sure that we didn't20 skip that.21 Superintendent Ackerman -- and,22 by the way, I'm glad you brought back the23 "superintendent" title; it kind of hits24 home with me.25 170 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 I was in a meeting recently2 where a teacher brought up something that3 I held on to a while 'cause I wanted to4 ask you about it today: Charter schools,5 the policy that the charter schools have6 in releasing to the public school system7 disciplinary students.8 I've heard stories where at9 mass -- six, eight, ten at a time -- come10 from a charter school to your11 environment. Something doesn't sound12 right about that, about how easy it is13 just to say, "We're not dealing with this14 anymore and we're going to give the15 problem back to the School District."16 Could you comment on that, your17 feeling on that?18 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: I19 know that to be the case, and I've heard20 that not only from teachers but from21 principals.22 And as we look at the issue of23 accountability and as we build the system24 of grade schools, it means accountability25 171 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 for all schools, including charter2 schools. Tracking who starts with these3 young -- who are the students who start4 with them at the beginning of the year5 and who ends the year with them.6 But I believe that we have to7 start addressing those issues seriously8 and making that a part of the contract as9 we think about performance measures.10 But you're -- I have heard11 that, I know that to be true, and we've12 got to -- we now have an office that can13 begin to work with our charter schools on14 some of these performance issues.15
You would16 think that the charter schools would also17 be able to help with some of these18 discipline problems before they just cut19 them loose.20 The other point that I think21 you should be concerned about is the22 money. I understand that some of the23 charter schools time the release where24 the money doesn't follow the student, and25 172 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 that should be troubling.2 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: Well,3 we are certainly, as I said, building --4 when we talk about building this system5 of great schools and we talk about6 accountability, we mean for all schools.7 And in the past, there's been sort of8 this dual process and dual parallel9 process for charter schools and then the10 District schools.11 We believe that these are all12 of our schools, and we all have to be13 accountable for the young people.14
But did I15 make myself clear that the money State16 gives the charter school wants the17 student released from the charter school,18 the District does not receive the money,19 that it says with the charter school.20 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: Yes.21 It does not follow the kids once they22 leave. The money -- I'm going to have23 Ben --24 (Confers off-record with25 173 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 Mr. Masch.)2 (Addressing Mr. Masch.) Can3 you answer the question about the money4 following?5 I know that I'm right on6 that -- you're right on that.7
Yeah. We pay8 charter schools based on the number of9 students who are enrolled. We audit --10 we audit periodically -- we get11 continuous reports from them, and then we12 audit them after the fact.13 If we determine that they have14 billed us for a student who is not15 enrolled, we will deduct those payments16 from -- we will deduct what we paid from17 subsequent payments so we're not paying18 for students who are not enrolled there;19 it's all enrollment-driven.20 I think that our Deputy21 Superintendent, who is on the receiving22 end of that, could speak to how it works23 from the charter school side.24 (Witness comes forward.)25 174 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 DEP. SUPT. RAYER: Councilman,2 Ben Rayer, with the School District.3 I do oversee the charter4 schools, and Mr. Masch did get that5 exactly right. It may take a lag of a6 month, but there is never a case where a7 charter school would be receiving payment8 for a student who is not enrolled in that9 school because we do it by attendance in10 the school.11
Thank you.12 Okay.13 DEP. SUPT. RAYER: And I would14 just add quickly to what the15 Superintendent said, that we recognize16 that this issue of students withdrawing17 from charter schools and ending up in18 District schools is an important, and19 we've even begun the process this year of20 asking schools to begin to have21 conversations with each other to22 recognize that it's not necessarily a "we23 versus they," but we want to solve the24 problem for children and find the best25 175 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 solution for them.2 And so, we've begun having3 conversations between District principals4 and charter principals.5
When a6 charter releases a child with a7 disciplinary problem, are they required8 to notify the school that that student's9 going to -- about the problem that10 they're about to receive?11 DEP. SUPT. RAYER: They are.12 They're required to withdraw the child13 from our computer network, which we all14 share together, so that we know that the15 student has withdrawn or been expelled.16 And then, the records for that17 child are required to go to the receiving18 schools, which, in the case, if they19 don't choose another case, is the20 District home neighborhood school.21 So we are doing a more active22 job, as the Superintendent said, of23 tracking that and being supportive of24 both sets of schools in that process,25 176 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 because the important piece is that the2 child's well served, not who feels like3 they should have the child or not.4
Terrific.5 Thank you very much.6 DEP. SUPT. RAYER: You're7 welcome.8
Thank11 you, Councilman.12 Before we call on Councilman13 Jones, let me say that we only have three14 people -- back to your comment,15 Councilman -- who are here to testify,16 who are on record.17 So we could have broken for18 lunch at 12 o'clock, but we thought maybe19 we could get it done. But, colleagues,20 it is your call. It is you who, you21 know, set the pace for this.22 But having said that,23 Mr. Archie has to leave. And so, we're24 going to, unfortunately, have to excuse25 177 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 him as we continue our testimony.2 We're trying to get this all3 in, if it is okay with everyone, without4 our break. We would be coming back, it5 would have been, from 12 to 1:30, but6 we'd like to try to get this in unless7 you all want to break, 'cause our evening8 was 1:30 to 3:30, so we're trying to get9 this in now so that everyone can get10 their comments and go straight through,11 if that is okay.12
Madam20 Chair, I'd like to offer as a21 recommendation if we can have the other22 witnesses. I have no longer -- I have no23 additional questions for Chairman Archie.24 That way, we at least get the additional25 178 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 witnesses on, and then bring the school2 officials back. I do have many more3 questions for the school officials but4 I'm certainly willing to allow those who5 -- the others who have to testify an6 opportunity to do that.7
Thank8 you very much.9 Councilman Jones, Councilman10 Green wants to break and come back. It's11 your call now. And councilwoman12 Reynolds-Brown is willing to let it go so13 we can bring the others on.14 You'll break the tie, sir.15
I'd like to16 make one friendly amendment that means I17 get to go first when we come back from18 break; is that all agreed?19 All those in --20
Nobody asked21 me.22 (Laughter.)23 COUNCILWOMAN BLACKWELL:24 Councilman Rizzo?25 179 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 Councilman Rizzo and I would2 like to continue on.3
I agree6 with Blondell that we want to allow the7 folks who are here to give public8 testimony to do so and then break and9 come back.10
Okay.13 Sounds good to me.14 So we will -- Councilman Jones,15 you were next, so are you willing to let16 our other witnesses come forward?17
But does22 that mean that I don't get to ask my23 question now? I have to hold it --24
You'll25 180 5/12/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 get to ask your question now.2 Dr. Ackerman and Mr. Masch, are3 you okay with that? Are you willing to4 have Mr. Jordan and two other people,5 Vernard Johnson, I'm sorry, I didn't see6 Brian Armstead -- testify? Can you wait7 and then we finish up?8 SUPERINTENDENT ACKERMAN: We9 are here at your pleasure.10
Thank11 you very, very much. Thank you so much.12 And we will break anyway for13 five minutes for the stenographer. So14 after five minutes, we will continue.15 And then, Mr. Jordan, we will ask you to16 testify.17 (Short break taken while18 second-shift Stenographer Michele Murphy19 sets up equipment and relieves20 first-shift Stenographer Josephine21 Cardillo.)22 * * *23 24 25 181 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171
May we2 resume our Committee hearing, Committee3 of the Whole, on the School District4 legislation, our School District bills.5 We are ready to resume, and we're going6 to ask Mr. Jerry Jordan, head of the PFT,7 to come forward. And after Mr. Jordan --8 is Brian Armstead here? I haven't seen9 him.10 (Audience member yelling "He's11 here.")12
All13 right. And then we have Vernard Johnson.14 Thank you all. Thank you very15 much.16 (Witness approached witness17 table.)18
We19 thank you for your patience.20 Thank you, Mr. Jordan, one of21 my favorite people. Thank you.22
Thank you,23 Councilwoman. And, of course, as always,24 you're my mother's councilwoman, so25 182 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 you're very special to me, too.2
My name is Jerry9 Jordan. I'm the President of the10 Philadelphia Federation of Teachers. 20 A child came to class late one21 morning with a sad and almost weary look22 on his face and carrying a small23 suitcase. When his teacher asked what24 was wrong, the boy replied, I didn't do25 183 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 what my mommy told me this morning and2 she got angry and packed my suitcase and3 told me to get out, to go live with my4 dad. 7 The teacher was worried. 14 Most, if not every, PFT member15 who works with students can tell a16 similar story, because most of us know17 students whose parents have lost their18 jobs, their homes, their freedom or their19 lives. 23 We have seen children hit by a24 frustrated parent called to school25 184 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 because their child misbehaved. 6 In these difficult economic7 times, the poorest families are among the8 first and the hardest hit. 16 Teachers are accountable for17 raising test scores in classes whose18 sizes we can't control, in schools that19 are falling apart, without enough books20 for students to take home and sometimes21 without the support of families. 7 We are discouraged from talking8 about the hardships our students and9 their families face. 22 In your budget deliberations23 this year, I urge you to swim against the24 tide and focus on the whole child,25 186 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 recognizing that their psychological,2 physical, social and intellectual3 development must be nurtured in equal4 parts. 13 This is our moment. 5 I am not advocating that we6 back away from efforts to improve7 schools, because these will be crucial to8 improving the lives of disadvantaged9 children. 25 188 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 The PFT supports smaller2 classes, particularly in the early3 grades, so that children get the4 individual help they need, and the5 District's strategic plan supports6 reducing class sizes. 9 We believe using carrots, not10 sticks, to attract and retain certified,11 experienced teachers and leadership to12 hard-to-staff schools. We need to put13 into place incentives and encourage our14 most accomplished teachers to work in15 challenging environments. 2 The PFT believes that we need3 to expand early childhood education4 programs that promote academic readiness5 as well as positive social and behavioral6 skills. 20 The PFT has advocated for such21 programs since its inception. 12 But taking a more comprehensive13 approach to raising achievement demands14 that as a community we address broader15 social issues of strong families, good16 housing and adequate healthcare17 throughout the community. We support18 community schools that include the19 development of full-service, in-school20 clinics like the excellent community21 clinic at Sayre High School and Cooke22 Elementary School. 22 These ideas are neither radical23 nor new. Rather, they are time-tested,24 proven programs the PFT has fought for25 194 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 since 1941. 11 Teachers and other educational12 professionals don't need mile-long lists13 of initiatives that are unlikely to be14 sustained when federal funds run out. 4
Thank5 you very much. We appreciate your6 testimony, as always. It's always7 thoughtful and thorough, and we8 appreciate the job that you do.9 Do we have questions for10 Mr. Jordan?11 Councilman Jones -- excuse me12 one moment, Councilwoman Brown.13 You were first. Would you like14 to hold that or would you like to address15 it to Mr. Jordan?16
I will yield17 to my colleague and I want to pick back18 up on Dr. Ackerman. I'll do that.19
--2 Mr. President, and let me underscore3 Chairman Blackwell's remarks. Your4 presence and your in-your-face attention5 to what's happening with the School6 District has been consistent, and you7 need to know we pay attention and we8 appreciate that.9 To the question of the10 recruitment of new teachers, recruiting11 and retaining highly effective staff,12 does the PFT involve itself in any way13 with the orientation of new teachers once14 they come into the system? Meaning, do15 you play a role in helping them16 understand the urban experience? If not,17 what role do you play at all?18
Well, thank you19 for that question, Councilwoman Brown.20 This year is a very, very special year,21 because the PFT, in working with the22 Chief Academic Officer and her staff,23 will be involved in the professional24 development for all new teachers when25 197 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 they -- before they enter the classroom2 this September.3
It's the first6 that we've had that kind of involvement7 in helping to support the professional8 development for new teachers, yes.9
In your10 testimony on , you outline what you11 believe high schools can do in terms of12 options, and you state "alternative13 programs for returning students, overage14 students and working students." You say15 you believe that it should be a role of16 the high schools, which means the School17 District.18 Do you believe that the School19 District should have that responsibility20 versus the community colleges, given the21 magnitude and the scale of the needs of22 our children and the limited resources23 they have to move to smaller classroom,24 to move to the counselor-student ratio25 198 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 and the host of other challenges that2 they face?3
I think that the4 schools do have to assume the5 responsibility for making sure that all6 children, and especially those youngsters7 who you just described, have a program8 that is going to really meet their needs.9 We can't afford to continue to allow the10 dropout rate to be as high as it is. So11 unless we really face that challenge as a12 system and as a city, I think that we're13 not going to do anything to make sure14 that more children are educated and are15 successful and graduate from our schools16 to go on to the community colleges or to17 go into a career.18
So is that19 to suggest that currently the School20 District does not have any what one might21 call drop-in programs?22
No. There are23 programs that address young students who24 have a variety of needs. There are25 199 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 programs that take place at different2 hours in the school, of what we think as3 a traditional school day, but that those4 programs serve children who are5 school-age students.6
On Page7 131 and 130, it discussed academic8 support services, textbooks, et cetera.9 You speak to textbooks in the top10 paragraph of of your testimony.11 From where you sit, from your lens, what12 are you hearing with regards to school13 textbooks, the adequacy of school14 textbooks, the lack of? What are you15 reading? What are you hearing from those16 you interface with?17
What I'm hearing18 is that in some locations there are not19 enough textbooks for children to take20 home.21
And what22 role does the PFT have in registering23 that with the School District so that24 that situation is remedied?25 200 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171
We have access to2 senior management in the District to3 always express our point of view.4
And in5 those instances where that exists, has6 there been a solution? Has it been7 resolved?8
In some cases it9 has been, but I think that if a poll were10 taken today, that we would probably find11 that there are individuals who will say12 that they don't have adequate books. I13 met with a group of PFT members Friday14 afternoon and that was one of the15 concerns that was raised at that meeting.16
Ultimately17 who is accountable, the school principal18 or the regional superintendent, for lack19 of a better word?20
Everybody is21 accountable. And when I say that,22 Councilwoman, I think that certainly the23 school administrator is responsible,24 because they're responsible for running25 201 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 the school and hopefully running it2 efficiently, but the teachers are3 involved and have to be accountable,4 because they issue the books to the5 children, and the parents have to be6 responsible and held accountable and the7 kids have to be held accountable. So8 when I say "all," we're all accountable9 for it.10
And then,11 lastly, what's your philosophical12 position on merit pay?13
The reason that I18 don't think that it works is that there19 is no place that I have -- where I have20 known that merit pay plans have been21 instituted that they've been successful,22 in that it's a matter of how you evaluate23 teachers in order to determine that one24 is more valuable to the school than25 202 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 another.2 (Bell rung.)3
And I think that4 when looking at merit pay schemes, that5 it's a lot more beneficial to put those6 resources in the classrooms for kids and7 not to use that as a basis for pay.8 I think all teachers should be9 paid a good salary, but when you begin --10 I think that perhaps the only way that11 you can delineate some differences in12 pay -- and I think I referenced it -- is13 in trying to staff hard-to-staff14 locations, that people are willing to do15 that.16
Subjects as well19 as hard-to-fill subjects, teachers who20 acquire a level of knowledge and skills21 such as our National Board-Certified22 teachers. I think that those individuals23 need to be recognized and recognized with24 an additional salary.25 203 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171
Lastly on2 this topic, when you consider the fact3 that -- I read some place that one-third4 of 11th graders are meeting AYP, which5 means two-thirds are not, and what6 incentive -- you speak of incentive here.7 You say "place incentives to encourage8 our most accomplished teachers to work in9 challenging environments."10 Meeting AYP is more than a11 notion, particularly after you get them12 in 7th grade and they've been -- those13 signals have not been dealt with along14 the way. So given that reality, you15 still believe that merit pay does not16 have a place in -- given the reality of17 where we are not with regards to AYP, you18 still believe merit pay does not have a19 place?20
I absolutely do,21 and I want to just for the record say22 that Adequate Yearly Progress is a system23 that is fundamentally flawed and should24 not be used as an evaluation of a school.25 204 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 Our national office, along with people2 from the NEA's national office, the3 statisticians have worked on that formula4 since President Bush and Congress adopted5 it, and by 2014, which is the date in No6 Child Left Behind for all children to7 reach proficiency in this country, no8 school in this nation will reach9 proficiency under that formula.10
So if that11 is flawed, what would be a better tool, a12 better measurement tool?13
Well, I think that14 you've got to measure each school based15 on where it is right now as a baseline16 and then begin looking at providing the17 kinds of supports that Dr. Ackerman18 testified to this morning and that I19 included. I don't think that we can20 separate what a student's performance is21 in a school with many of the other22 institutions that affect that child's23 life.24
When we look at2 the lack of adequate healthcare for3 disadvantaged children, when we look at4 the lack of jobs for their families, the5 lack of in some cases food, the lack of6 other supports, all of that, we have to7 put that together, because that one8 little person who comes into our9 classroom in the form of a child, all of10 that impacts their lives. And we know11 that when children have advantages,12 exposure to different things, that they13 increase their vocabulary. They14 certainly are able to be a lot more15 productive, much faster than a child who16 comes from a disadvantaged background and17 especially if that child has not had the18 opportunity for a good early childhood19 education, which is why we advocate so20 strongly for good early childhood21 education opportunities for all kids in22 the City.23
Agreed. I24 thank you for your testimony.25 206 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171
Thank5 you very much.6 Are there further questions for7 Mr. Jordan? If they are not for him, if8 they're for Dr. Ackerman, we'll receive9 them again at the end of our testimony.10 Thank you very much.11
Brian13 Armstead.14 And let me, while he's there,15 thank the various departments. I know16 Facilities always gives us great service.17 And ask Joan Krajewski if you want to18 know about Facilities in the City. But19 we appreciate all of you for what you do.20 We thank Mr. Jordan for those21 important comments, as always.22 Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds,23 while we're waiting for Mr. Armstead, as24 always there's an issue about who makes25 207 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 the judgment and there's always an issue2 as in merit selection. We talk about3 that with judges, but as a former teacher4 too, you have issues when you -- in any5 organization when you try to do things6 that maybe someone else doesn't, you7 don't get a chance to move up.8 (Witness approached witness9 table.)10
Yes.11 Mr. Armstead, introduce yourself to the12 record and begin, and thank you.13
Thank you very14 much. 16 Good morning, Council -- or17 actually, good afternoon, Council18 President Verna, Councilwoman Blackwell,19 members of City Council. My name is20 Brian Armstead. I'm the Director of21 Civic Engagement for the Philadelphia22 Education Fund. " Together,11 the Education First Compact and the12 Philadelphia Cross City Campaign for13 School Reform represent a diverse group14 of organizations, including parent and15 student grassroots organizing groups,16 education advocates, universities,17 researchers, businesses, professional18 education organizations and community19 groups, et cetera. 4 But the platform itself is5 built on two imperatives. First, every6 child deserves an effective teacher and,7 second, every school needs a stable8 workforce of effective teachers. 17 Parents are tired of too many classes18 where teachers do not know how to19 properly manage classrooms and where the20 children are not learning. 4 Students said they're tired of5 sitting in some classes and literally6 falling asleep. One student explained7 that when there is a high rate of teacher8 turnover and too many first-year9 teachers, students get discouraged. They10 start cutting class and they eventually11 drop out, and that what is going on or12 not going on in the class can make the13 difference between whether or not a14 student is motivated to come to school15 every day. 18 At the same time, the19 professionals said they're tired of20 seeing a misallocation of resources. It21 is a well-known fact that quality of22 instruction is the best way to close the23 achievement gap and to ensure that all of24 our children succeed. 18 The good news, however, is that19 the School District has begun to address20 some of these issues. 25 212 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 This is where Council can be2 especially important. We need you to be3 vigilant about teaching quality and4 equity issues. As you publicly and5 privately question the District, this6 year and in coming years, specifically7 ask about these issues. The District's8 annual report to this body should9 include, first, metrics about the10 distribution of teachers and a discussion11 of their plans and action steps to12 address the current inequities. 20 And, finally, Council can also21 shine a spotlight on the contract that's22 currently being negotiated between the23 School District and the Philadelphia24 Federation of Teachers. 4 You know, as the contract5 currently stands, it's the product of a6 bygone era. 16 So we ask you to pick up on17 this call and continue to remind both18 parties of its perspective over the next19 few months while they put together their20 new contract. 3
Thank4 you, Mr. Armstead, and thank you for your5 testimony.6 Are there any questions?7
Yes.8 COUNCILWOMAN BLACKWELL:9 Councilwoman Reynolds Brown.10
Please11 define for me current inequity. What12 does that mean?13
Well, one of the14 problems is the -- as the research shows,15 in high-poverty, high-minority schools,16 you often have a high percentage of17 inexperienced teachers, right? And so18 one of the challenges is that -- a lot of19 research has shown that for the first20 three years of a person's teaching life,21 they're just not as effective most of the22 time. I mean, there are some exceptions,23 right, but most of the time they're not24 as effective as a more experienced25 215 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 teacher. So what ends up happening in2 more affluent communities in so-called3 better schools where teachers want to go4 to often, you have a higher percentage5 proportion of more experienced, frankly6 better teachers that are teaching the7 children. Yet, at the same time in the8 neighborhoods where often they need more9 support because of other outside10 situations that actually Jerry Jordan11 just talked a lot about, that's where you12 really need your most effective teachers.13 And so it's exactly opposite of what's14 actually needed.15 And so what we're calling for16 are a variety of changes that would17 really try to help change the18 distribution of teachers. So, for19 example, one of the issues that --20 Philadelphia is one of the last cities in21 the country that has any vestige of22 seniority-driven selection and assignment23 of teachers. One of the things that24 we're calling for is full site selection25 216 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 at all schools. But I think that can be2 done in ways -- and other cities have3 shown this. That can be done in ways4 that teachers feel comfortable about the5 process. I think in Philadelphia, we've6 gotten bogged down when we talk about7 full site selection as though there's no8 middle ground, as though there's no way9 to give teachers the kinds of supports10 that they would need to feel comfortable11 about this kind of a process.12 So site selection is one thing,13 to help principals and school leaders14 recruit and attract teachers, set a clear15 vision and find teachers that match that16 vision to come work in their school.17
Stop right18 there. What has been the impediment?19 Union-related challenges?20
I think the21 impediment has been that the District and22 the union have not been able to come23 together and find common ground about how24 to create a site selection system that25 217 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 actually makes sense for Philadelphia.2 I don't want to put blame on3 District or union.4
Exactly,7 unproductive and, frankly, I haven't been8 in the room. But what I can say is,9 looking at the contract itself and10 comparing that to what other people11 around the country have done and best12 practice, that the contract itself is a13 problem.14
Thank17 you very much.18 Are there any other questions19 for Mr. Armstead?20 Councilwoman Sanchez.21
Yes. I22 just wanted to quickly thank the folks23 both from the Education First Compact and24 the Philadelphia Cross City Campaign. I25 218 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 had the pleasure of hosting them in our2 Council Caucus Room when they launched3 this campaign on teacher quality and4 equity.5 I guess my only question to6 Mr. Armstead is, as the stakeholder of7 Philadelphia Education Fund and all these8 other groups, do you feel that you are9 being engaged by the District and the10 union in this discussion? Are you11 engaged?12
You know, we've13 had some pretty good discussions with14 both parties. Although I think one thing15 that a number of people that we talked to16 really want to see is a more public17 discussion around these issues with both18 the union and the District to really have19 a good discussion about what it will take20 to drive forward teaching quality and21 teaching equity. I think often what22 happens is, you meet with one party here23 and you meet with one party there, and24 you kind of say, Boy, I wish they were25 219 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 together so we can kind of have a2 creative discussion on how we can move3 things forward. And, more importantly,4 that discussion should be public.5
Thank10 you very much.11 Any other questions?12 (No response.)13
Thank14 you, Mr. Armstead.15 Mr. Vernard Johnson.16 I'm sorry. Councilman Jones.17 Mr. Armstead, would you come18 back?19
Thank you.20 My question also was the21 question I was going to direct to22 Dr. Ackerman on equitable distribution of23 quality or qualified teachers. Is there24 a correlation between that distribution25 220 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 and performance in underperforming2 schools?3
Yeah, there is,4 and, in fact, what's interesting to me is5 that in the District's strategic plan,6 one of the things -- they cite a report7 from New York that actually said that8 qualified -- I can't remember the exact9 language, but good teachers are one of10 the biggest factors, if not the biggest11 factor, in closing the achievement gap.12 So when we talk about the13 achievement gap between high-poverty and14 minority students on the one hand and15 more affluent and non-minority students16 on the other hand, that achievement gap17 that exists, that that quality of18 instruction is really the biggest factor19 in how we're going to end up closing that20 achievement gap.21 And so, yes, when the research22 starts saying that you have less23 experience, often less effective teachers24 that are congregated in schools that have25 221 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 the biggest need, that's a problem.2
I would3 differ with what "good" is, because I4 think all teachers are good, but I think5 the clinical definition of equitable6 distribution of qualified teachers are7 where teachers are in the major or area8 of discipline within their degree and9 teaching within that. I think that has10 something to do with it.11
I think that's12 an important fact to look at, but I do13 think that -- I think that all teachers14 have the potential to be very good and15 effective teachers. I do not necessarily16 know that all teachers are living up to17 that potential right now, often because18 we as a system -- so I'll include myself19 as an outside partner -- we as a system20 have not figured out how to effectively21 train them and develop them in ways to22 meet their potential. And so I think23 that's where I would differ with you a24 little bit.25 222 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 So when I say this, I'm not2 trying to point a finger at individual3 teachers and say that you're a bad person4 or whatever. I'm saying often that just5 as our children have not been properly6 educated so that they can take their7 rightful place in the workforce and excel8 in their careers, that our adults have9 not been given the proper training and10 education so that they can excel and11 truly be happy in their careers.12 I think effective teachers are13 often the most happy, and so when we walk14 around and we have teachers that are15 dissatisfied because of a lot of factors,16 often it's because we as a system have17 let them down, because they can't really18 excel at their -- they want to excel.19 Often they try hard, but how do we20 actually put them in the right position21 to succeed.22
I guess my23 focus on this is not so much the24 non-measurable portion of what a good25 223 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 teacher is, because one person's good2 teacher -- the teachers I remember in3 public school were the ones I could not4 stand, but taught me the best.5
They held me7 to the highest standard. They really8 didn't let me get away with a doggone9 thing, and it forced me to be all I could10 be.11 So good is a relative term.12 But what I do want to focus on is, if you13 are a certified math teacher and you are14 not teaching math, then that poses a15 problem for me. And at one of my16 schools, Mifflin in particular, they've17 suffered because they haven't had a18 certified math teacher for a while. So I19 guess when Dr. Ackerman gets up here, I20 want to focus on what is the clinical21 definition of equitable distribution of22 qualified teachers and how we are23 addressing if that is a problem. If it24 is not equitable, why, and how we address25 224 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 that.2
I agree. I3 think that kind of data actually should4 be easily and readily available for all5 of our schools about the certifications6 and who is teaching in certification and7 not. I mean, you shouldn't have to dig8 to be able to find that, right?9 But the other thing that I10 would offer that you can also ask11 Dr. Ackerman when she comes back is that12 in addition to those kinds of13 certifications, another thing that the14 District and I believe the union are15 trying to work on right now is developing16 a set of standards that they can actually17 begin to look. Because there are people18 out there that are experts in teaching.19 I do civic engagement, so I'm not a20 teaching expert. But there are people21 that are out there that have been able to22 break down what is effective teaching,23 what do you look for when you walk into a24 classroom, how do you break that down and25 225 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 assess it.2 So to the extent that the3 District doesn't have any real standards4 across the board, it makes it hard for5 them to really approach somebody and say,6 This is where you're strong and this is7 where you're weak, and this is how we8 need to help you. So one of the first9 things is developing some standards to10 actually define what is good, effective11 teaching. I mean, that's one of the12 basic things that we need to put in13 place, and maybe they can address that14 more when they come up here.15
Thank19 you.20 Any other questions for21 Mr. Armstead?22 (No response.)23
Thank24 you.25 226 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 Mr. Vernard Johnson. After Mr.2 Vernard Johnson, we'll have Sheila3 Simmons, PCCY, and Lola Oladupo, ACORN.4 Then we will bring back Dr. Ackerman.5 Unless somebody steps to the side and6 let's us know you're here and you want to7 say something, that's our schedule for8 the rest of this day.9 Okay. Thank you.10 (Witness approached witness11 table.)12 COUNCILWOMAN BLACKWELL:13 Mr. Johnson?14
Councilwoman15 Blackwell and Council President Verna,16 how you doing?17
21 It wasn't part of what I wanted to come22 up here and talk about, but, you know,23 there are inequities at the school level24 itself. 6 I think we probably -- I know I7 was there. I'll speak about myself --8 with Ms. Wack many years ago at the Shaw9 School. Everybody wanted Ms. Wack or10 Ms. Gay and didn't want anybody else11 because of the same problem that we have12 now. 13 So I think if you find an14 engaging teacher, a teacher who15 understands the children, a teacher who16 can relate to the children, a teacher who17 doesn't put the children out without a18 pass, you know, on-the-ground stuff, that19 you begin to address the whole question20 of inequities in the building besides21 inequities across the system. 23 On the other hand, my24 organization, Southeast Pennsylvania25 228 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 Network for Family Health, Education and2 Welfare, and the Philadelphia Student3 Union several months ago sponsored a4 meeting with representatives of the PFT5 and the SRC, and I believe some School6 District officials were at that meeting7 as well. And we talked about teacher8 equity and teacher effectiveness and all9 that kind of good stuff. And we're10 making an attempt now, and I think11 Dr. 19 I just spoke to Mr. Jordan -- I20 don't see him -- a few minutes ago and21 asked him would he be willing to22 participate in that type of conversation,23 a conversation of where there's a will,24 where there's a will to teach our25 229 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 children, not necessarily based around2 the union regs and the union rules and3 what I can't do and what I can do, but is4 there a will to teach our children where5 there's a partnership between the6 community, the School District and the7 union, and Mr. Jordan said he would be8 more than willing to sit down and talk9 about what that would look like. 19 I just spoke to Jerry Jordan,20 and he's an alumnus of West Philadelphia21 High School, and he said, maybe that's a22 good school to start out with where we23 can find out if there's a will to develop24 or redesign a good-quality education in a25 230 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 Philadelphia public school that has a2 long history of success, and more3 recently we all know what that's been4 more recently. 13 I want to talk a little bit14 about restructured schools. Humdullah,15 at last. We are going to be able to shut16 a school down that's not performing. And17 we've had the ability to do that since my18 daughter was at University City in 199319 and we didn't do it. 7 We're going to teach kids how to do8 fractions, how to add three columns, how9 to read, write and do arithmetic before10 we begin to teach them algebra I or11 algebra II or advance placement and all12 that kind of stuff. But we're going to13 have those services available to our14 children, but we're going to go back to15 basics. 17 As a matter of fact, I run18 around all the other places I go and I19 talk about, We're going to put the floor20 in. And then after you put the floor in,21 you can put the desk on. You can put the22 seats in. 9 I think to have a nurse in a10 building a reasonable amount of time a11 day I think is critical. So the nurse12 only doesn't do triage, but she can do13 health education. And a lot of the14 things that Mr. 22 And so the rebuilding of the23 family, the restructuring of the family,24 using Title I dollars appropriately so25 233 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 that -- I don't hear anybody talk about2 how they can use Title I dollars as it3 relates to parents. 17 So I wanted to say that. I18 think that's worth supporting.
22 I think that the effort to23 reengage young folks to get them back24 into the classroom, be it a traditional25 234 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 classroom or non-traditional classroom, I2 think is something that the Council and3 that everyone needs to support so that --4 matter of fact, in your district,5 Councilwoman Blackwell, I understand --6 the district where I live and work, I7 understand that we're probably the second8 or third area in the City that has the9 highest dropout rate with a number of10 kids trying to get back in. 16 Not just have the will to go back, but to17 actually be prepared to go back. 20 Let me say this: Closing21 schools without public hearings is22 unacceptable. 25 235 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 I heard Mr. Masch talk today2 about putting DHS into some school3 buildings. Well, Lord have mercy. If we4 can put DHS into school buildings, we can5 take community organizations who are6 operating out of the basements of their7 homes and in backyards and libraries and8 other places and make space for them in9 the buildings for children as well. Not10 only to rent, but to actually provide11 services to young folks. And so I don't12 want people to be confused about the13 closing of a Gillespie or closing of a14 William Penn with this restructured15 school process. There are two different16 processes, and the one that's going on at17 William Penn came about before this18 Administration came in, but I'm sure that19 that community up there -- and Mr. 4 We're going to lose Peirce. We're going5 to lose William Penn. I mean, we're just6 going to lose the educational7 institutions in our community without8 having a conversation about how can we9 use these institutions to better the10 community. And so if that's putting a11 green project together where you teach12 young folks how to maintain the athletic13 fields at the Recreation Department the14 City doesn't seem to be able to maintain,15 it seems to be that that's a green16 project that can create some jobs, and we17 throw some dollars back into the garden18 program that Ms. Fagan and them had when19 I first came to Philadelphia. And when20 we were looking for work, we were able to21 go into those corner gardens and garden22 and take young folks and actually employ23 them, hire them, and sweep the street24 around the Tourist Times Cafe -- I'm25 237 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 saying this to you, Councilwoman2 Blackwell, because I know you know what3 I'm talking about -- and put young folks4 to work. They're green projects. We5 used to call them street sweeping and6 whatever you call them, picking up trash,7 taking it to the junkyard. 16 I think I'm almost done. 20 I don't know. 522 billion seven years later. I think --23 that's my figures. I think that you're24 spending a lot of money. And I'm not25 238 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 always saying that you need to spend a2 lot of money, but I think some of the3 services that -- some of the cuts that4 were made downtown, I think this5 Administration is trying to correct some6 of that. But some of the cuts that were7 made downtown actually did impact a8 student's ability in a classroom to9 perform. So when you had an10 inexperienced teacher in the classroom11 and then you had coaches who weren't12 really coaching, I think that was a real13 problem. 15 And so I think that we all16 should be putting pressure on Harrisburg,17 all of us, the elected officials, the18 consumers, the parents, and saying to19 Harrisburg that you need to fund these20 schools at the level you should fund21 them. So take some of that rainy day22 money that they got in their pocket and23 that they're going to use for whatever24 they're going to use it for and fill the25 239 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 hole. Fill the hole. 2 And then you take the stimulus money and3 you put it on top of that.
I don't know4 how you stimulate anything by using5 what's supposed to be used to6 stimulate -- unless I got it all wrong --7 to pay off a debt. 9 So in closing, I'll say this,10 and I'll use an example. 11 I was the Chair of Healthy Start for12 several years. And Councilwoman and13 Councilwoman Verna, you're real familiar14 with Healthy Start. It bought millions15 and millions and millions of dollars into16 this town to address the issue of infant17 mortality. But one thing was clear from18 the feds -- and my friend over there19 keeps telling me that the feds didn't say20 it on this. One thing that was clear21 from the feds, you couldn't use Healthy22 Start money to supplant other dollars,23 that if you wanted to use Healthy Start24 money, you could use it, you put it on25 240 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 top of the dollars. 6 So I'm just saying to you,7 we're preparing to go on a bus trip to8 Harrisburg in the next week or so. It's9 real expensive. If anybody would like to10 help cover the cost of the bus, we11 certainly wouldn't mind your help. But12 we're going to go to Harrisburg, and13 we're going to take the parents and we're14 going to take the students, like we've15 been doing for the last five, six, seven16 years, and we're going to engage Pileggi17 on the Senate side and we're going to18 engage Roebuck on this side. 17 And my last statement in18 closing is that I would hope -- and I19 think the District is moving to this, but20 I've got to say this. 24 And I know that's going to become a topic25 242 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 of conversation real soon, and I know2 that there's a lot of concern out there3 in the community and my community about4 the likes of Edison and what their5 product has been, what they produce. 11
Thank12 you, Mr. Johnson.13 Any questions for Mr. Johnson?14
Let me19 first acknowledge the good work that you20 have often done. You have a track record21 for being in the trenches.22 In defense of DHS, who is not23 here, and given the enormous role they24 have in keeping our children whole,25 243 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 briefly clarify your comment regarding2 DHS.3
Well, sure. I4 don't have any problem with that at all.5 It's not a question about DHS. All our6 systems that our children are in are7 stressed, every one of them. Every one8 of the systems that our children go9 through, including DHS, are stressed.10 So my comment was not a smack11 at DHS. Here's my comment: Let's have12 the conversation who occupies these13 buildings, and don't have the14 conversation away from the public. And15 so when there's opportunity to hold16 public hearings about the closing of a17 school in Representative Jones' district,18 I think that Representative Jones would19 want to have him and I know his20 constituents would want to be a part of21 that conversation. And if there are 1522 community-based organizations that work23 with children and they're stressed24 because they don't have the space and the25 244 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 facilities to do the kind of job that2 they would like to do, then I think it3 needs to be a broader conversation. And4 I always want to be in a position to not5 forget the community.6 And so it's not a smack at DHS.7 I think they do the best they can do with8 what they got, but I won't get into that9 too much. But that's my point, is that10 don't have the conversation away from the11 table and then you hear it in public,12 Well, maybe thinking about DHS moving to13 some of our school buildings, but then14 the community in general have the15 opportunity to say, This is what we think16 needs to be in our schools.17 So if the Mayor is trying to18 improve education in the communities and19 we got all these folks dropping out on20 the corner and we got folks on drugs and21 doing all kind of stuff on the corner,22 well, maybe there's an opportunity to23 bring folks back into an educational24 environment, and maybe that school could25 245 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 be used as such.2 And this is my last point. Why3 don't we bring the kids back from -- back4 into the neighborhood. If we provide a5 quality education -- let's see where the6 numbers really are, Councilwoman, where7 the numbers are short. If we provide a8 quality education -- we got kids from9 Southwest going to Roxborough, going to10 Lincoln, going to Germantown. Wherever11 they're going, provide the kind of12 quality education to bring them back home13 and then fill some of those what appears14 to be empty seats in my neighborhood,15 fill those seats with the students who16 are there. Why don't we have a campaign17 that says, Come back home, and saying in18 hard times -- I'm serious. In hard19 times, you know, tuitions are hard. I20 struggled paying tuitions for years. So21 if I had -- my grandson, I swore my22 four-year-old grandson wouldn't go to a23 public school, but I'm looking at it24 again, because my daughter and her25 246 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 husband are struggling.2 So if we can find a3 good-quality public school that's in the4 neighborhood where we live and my5 neighbors who are sending their kids to6 Catholic schools or to Christian schools7 can find that they can save some of that8 money in their pocket and they could9 return back to a Wilson or to a Shaw and10 come back home -- and I think there11 really seriously needs to be a campaign12 that says, Come back home -- then we can13 fill those seats up.14 I know when I first came to15 Philadelphia, John (unintelligible) was16 just starting. We gave those buildings17 away, and a few years later we were18 saying, We're overcrowded.19 So I would hate to see us make20 the -- go down the same road and make the21 same mistakes. But the smack is not at22 DHS.23
Thank you24 for your testimony.25 247 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 Thank you, Madam Chair.2
Thank3 you very much.4 Sheila Simmons, PCCY, are you5 here?6
Yes.7 COUNCILWOMAN BLACKWELL:8 Ms. Oladupo, ACORN, you're next. And,9 finally, Helen Gym called us and Cecilia10 Thompson with Parents United for Public11 Education. Then Dr. Ackerman will come12 and we'll conclude our questions.13 (Witness approached witness14 table.)15
Good afternoon.18 My name is Sheila Simmons. I'm Education19 Director for PCCY, Public Citizens for20 Children and Youth.21 I'll start by saying that for22 Imagine 2014, Superintendent Arlene23 Ackerman provides a vision of comfortably24 sized classes and caseloads of students25 248 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 small enough for counselors to actually2 help them. It imagines special education3 implemented with fidelity. It imagines4 more school nurses and focuses more5 resources on schools most in need. May6 we some day be able to see with eyes open7 these kinds of improvements in our8 schools.9 While bringing the strategic10 plan to life remains to be seen, PCCY11 supports this vision. It is broad and12 far-reaching, but we have much to reach13 for.14 We ask that you use your15 oversight to ensure transparency in16 contracting. While outside providers may17 propose to do a better job or more18 efficient and effective job, all too19 often the District never holds them20 accountable for those outcomes. In fact,21 often it doesn't even track the outcomes.22 This must change, and I believe that23 alternative education contracting has24 shown signs of the District addressing25 249 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 some of these concerns, but it remains in2 other areas.3 We need a school budget that4 reflects its chief concern, the children.5 We would also like to build off of the6 successes of past initiatives of past7 Administrations.8 Early childhood education has9 taken on increased attention nationally10 and statewide. We anticipate that11 Philadelphia will continue to strengthen12 these opportunities and resources for13 children locally. Too often our children14 are tripped up as they transition from15 one setting to another, from middle16 school to high school, from alternative17 disciplinary school back to the18 neighborhood school. Resources directed19 at solutions to this are welcomed.20 The School District has also21 pledged additional support for creating22 positive school climates. Schools should23 be places where students should know that24 we want them there, that they will be25 250 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 places of respect and fairness, where2 their voice is heard and matters.3 We are also pleased that the4 School District has committed to5 providing more support for arts, for6 alternative education, for a second7 reengagement center. And since teachers8 are often the single greatest determinant9 of a student's success, we hope to see10 more addressing of issues that will allow11 our most qualified teachers to work in12 schools that are often the ones that have13 the highest concentrations of least14 qualified teachers. There is much that15 we can imagine. We need the will to do16 it.17 Thank you.18
Thank21 you very much.22 Any questions for Ms. Simmons?23 (No response.)24
Thank25 251 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 you.2 ACORN?3
I have8 lots of questions, Madam Chair.9 PCCY has been an effective10 watchful eye over the School District11 when it comes to provision of arts and12 music programs. So looking where the13 District was nine years ago and where it14 is now with -- I won't editorialize. Let15 me ask the question. Speak to what16 you've seen.17
I can't say18 exactly nine years ago, but certainly in19 past years we have seen more of a20 decrease in arts and music education in21 our schools. I think we've gotten to a22 point where maybe fewer than half of our23 schools have music and art teachers.24 I think that a couple of years25 252 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 ago the School Reform Commissioner at2 that time, Sandra Dungee Glenn, led that3 School Reform Commission in requiring4 that schools have arts and music5 teachers, and the School District has6 been moving towards that. So there are7 certainly some improvements, but as with8 a lot of things, we have a long way to9 go.10 There are initiatives that are11 in place where we hope to see more arts12 and music teachers, where we hope to see13 more professional development in that14 area, and hopefully stimulus money will15 allow some of that to take place.16 Our schools need not just more17 arts and music teachers, but we also need18 more arts and music supplies, more19 equipment.20 So there are lots of areas that21 we can improve in, but I think that we've22 come a long way from where we were even23 two years ago.24
Has PCCY25 253 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 ever examined how the Art Museum and the2 Academy of Music and the Philadelphia3 Orchestra and others can partner?4 Because that's a two-way street. We are5 rich with arts and cultural institutions.6 We know the needs of our children. We7 know the value it places in our kids'8 lives.9 Has PCCY considered activating,10 energizing that community and help them11 understand that they have a role as well12 in moving our kids where we want them to13 be when it comes to being artistically14 fluent, if you will?15
Absolutely.16 Certainly PCCY is actually part of a17 partnership, Arts for Youth, which I18 think was just announced maybe recently,19 maybe within the last couple of months or20 so. It will be part of a very broad21 initiative that has lots of partners. It22 includes members from the arts community23 as well as the School District.24 I think the idea is that we25 254 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 would have hubs of music and arts that2 would be based in middle schools. And3 that is still very much in the beginning4 phases, but that was a major announcement5 about that. And so there is a lot of6 support for it. We would certainly like7 more support from the School District,8 more leadership from the School District9 in that area, but there have been a lot10 of organizations, community arts and11 music organizations, as well as those12 downtown and the recognition that the13 arts community itself could play a bigger14 role in connecting some of these15 opportunities to schools for --16
Who is17 playing a leadership role in that18 initiative?19
It will be20 Philadelphia Education Fund, PCCY,21 Fleisher. Those are the three entities I22 think that will be leading off that23 effort.24
Thank you25 255 5/11/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090216, 2171 for that update.2 Thank you, Madam Chair.3
Thank4 you very much.5 Any more questions?6 (No response.)7
All8 right. ACORN, you're next.9 (Witness approached witness10 table.)11