Thank you. My next question is on the same similar lines of my colleagues regarding the biases in the assessments. You know, just from looking at the data, it seems that parts of North Philadelphia, particularly, are inaccurately assessed. I, I know for a fact that even on my own block, that there are similar properties with, you know, 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. assessments that are way out of range. And I do think that this the inaccurate assessments helps to contribute to gentrification in our communities because a lot of folks call our office and say, "Oh, my property is only worth $30,000," or whatever, right? And so to them, if someone were to call and say, "Hey, we want to buy your house," to them that's the value, that's what it's worth. Where in our reality, particularly on my on my own block, I know that down the street, you know, renovated homes are a selling for $400,000. So our communities are losing a lot of equity because of the inaccurate assessments. And I do understand that, you know, no one wants to pay no higher taxes, but a more accurate assessment can give the community the equity that's needed to, to stay in that community. So I do hope that, you know, OPA, you know, really takes that into consideration when, you know, the next assessment, the, the next go around. My next question is on the senior tax 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. freeze. Is that something you implement or is that something that, that Revenue implements?
Revenue question. All right. I'll, I'll hold that for another day. The nonprofit application for exemption, can you give us can you is it possible for you to provide us the breakdown of the exempt properties that are in our districts so we can take a, a look at essentially how much money the city is losing in assessments? I do know there are a lot of churches in my district, for example, that aren't active and they still are receiving this non this tax-exempt status. So can we can you provide us with a list of information so we can see where this non the nonprofit status should no longer apply?
So are you looking for like a, a list individually by property or more of a high-level overview?
Individual by property. 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Okay. So the high-level overview, and I mentioned earlier, stuff will be passed from the council. That'll be rolled out by district, so you'll see the total exempt amount. But if there's a more micro level breakdown, we can certainly work to, to provide that as requested.
You're welcome. That's all we have. I want to thank you for your testimony. I want to thank you to your leader, Rob Dubow, as well for steering this ship and everything under our finances for the City of Philadelphia. That's all we have. Can Helen call up the next administration department for testimony? Thank you very much.
Next we have Carla Pagan, executive director for the Board of Revision of Taxes.
Good 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. afternoon.
Carla Pagan, executive director of the board of revision of taxes. With me today is Linda Tucci, executive assistant.
Okay. Just start your state your name for the record and please begin your testimony.
Carla Pagan, executive director, Board of revision of taxes. And with me today is Linda Tucci, executive assistant. The Board of Revision of Taxes hears appeals on real property valuations and addresses exemptions and inequities in those values. The BRT is an independent seven-member board appointed by the Board of Judges of the Philadelphia Court of Common Pleas. The board is required to hear assessment appeals and determine the market value from the tax year in question. The appeal board hears and renders decisions for real property assessment appeals, unique nonprofit applications, Homestead Exemption appeals, and late petitions. The Board of Viewers, our three- member independent board, hears and renders 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. decisions for eminent domain cases. Our plans for fiscal year 2025. So Pennsylvania state law says that any person aggrieved by their assessment can file a BRT appeal. The BRT board and staff are committed to resolving the 13,500 appeals filed for tax year 2023 and the 3,000 appeals filed for tax year 2024. We've had quite a robust hearing schedule all of this calendar year and anticipate that same hearing volume next calendar year. So far this year, the BRT has resolved 7,040 appeals, averaging about 580 units a month. And then while our market value appeals are our highest priority, the board has also spent substantial time hearing Homestead Exemptions, abatement appeals, and nonprofit appeals. For fiscal year 2025, the board will continue having oral hearings every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, and Mondays and Fridays for non-oral or administrative hearings. The BRT expects 2023 appeal filing volume to be complete by March 31, 2025 and 2024 appeals to be complete by June, the end of FY 2025. And that concludes oral testimony. We open the floor to questions. 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Sure. Thank you very much. Just in terms of community outreach, I know when the assessment goes out, there's also a first level of review that's a part of the mailer that, that residents receive in terms of their property taxes. Is there a process where I think this also comes into Revenue. So I I'm thinking in the future we'll have Revenue and OPA in the same setting. But nevertheless, do your team engage in community outreach and telling people about the process for first level of review? If they're denied on first level review, how they can go to court? Also, is there any recourse in terms of individuals who do go to court but they don't have a lawyer, right? Can you give us an idea how that's being addressed?
Yeah. So to answer your first question, the BRT does participate in community outreach. Not as much as the assessment office or revenue department; really, when we're invited. So maybe every reassessment year, there might be three to five events that 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. we've gone to in the past. But we're here and, you know, we welcome an invite. Secondly, about your appeal question. So assessment notices go out. There's the informal first level review appeal that's included with your assessment notice. The BRT appeals are more formal appeal. The State sets our filing deadlines, so our appeals are due the first Monday of October, so October 7th of 2024 appeals are due for 2025 reassessments. Our hearings are two different types. Oral hearings where you come before the board similar to this, and people present their value case. Or it's a non-oral administrative hearing where people submit the documents they want to appeal, and the board gives a written answer by mail. The appeals that property owners can take to the court, they can only appeal BRT level appeals at the Court of Common Pleas. And then once the court decision comes, it could it will always override our decision. So we encourage people to when you get your reassessment, file your first level 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. review. We also encourage people to file a BRT appeal. A handful of constituents may have their appeal answers back before our deadline, but if you're in the group that has your FLR answer back after our deadline, we don't want you to miss our deadline waiting for your FLR answer. So we tell people to file both appeals simultaneously.
What trends what trends are you seeing in terms of first levels of reviews?
So I can't answer about first level reviews. That's the, the OPA appeal. But for BRT appeals, it's usually consistent. Just looking at 2023 data, about 56 percent of those appellants get some type of relief, whether it's through a board hearing or through a settlement outside of a hearing. So about so 50-50 chance that you might
Excuse me. Yes, I meant to say formal appeals versus first level 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
of review. The chair recognizes Councilmember Nicolas O'Rourke.
Thank you, council thank you, Council President. And good afternoon.
I want to ask a few more questions about the appeals process for the OPA assessments before you, when you came on, but I know that y'all were together. From, from your testimony you stated and here written that you resolved about 7,000 appeals in 2023, while there were 13,500 filed. What, what more resources would you need to resolve all appeals filed per year? What do you need?
Time. So the one unique item about BRT appeals is that they really are hearings like this. So in a lot of cases, the board can resolve 100 even a couple thousand appeals if they're non-oral or administrative. They don't require any type of testimony. For the other types of oral appeals 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. that we hear three days a week, people come in and they present their case, their value argument, before the board. You have testimony from the appellant and also from the Office of Property Assessment. So those cases take time. Sometimes a homeowner may take 8 minutes, and then we've had cases run an hour. 9 So it depends if people are arguing over $25,000 10 or $250 million. So there is the board's been incredibly busy, but there is a certain amount of time required to get through the oral cases, you know. The, the one - a good thing about BRT appeals, if you want to, you know, have FaceTime in front of your city officials, you can come and you can vent your concerns about your assessment, so. And the board takes the time to hear those from property owners.
Can you provide a breakdown of appeals decisions that were made based on race, neighborhood, income level? 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
So by law, we can't make any appeal decisions on income level. A lot of times appellants may come in and say, I only make this much, so I can't pay that much. So by law, the board can't make an appeal decision based on someone's income. We'll refer them to those revenue programs. Also on appeal, we don't collect any data on race. So you don't know race, religion, sex, gender. You don't know any of that when people are filing their appeal. So the decision so when one files an appeal, our job as appellants are to tell the city, "Hey, we believe you got this number wrong. Here's what I think it's worth." And that's what we encourage people to submit to us, whether it's in photos, maybe they have pictures of bathrooms or kitchens that need repair. Some people may attach roofing estimates or plumbing electrical estimates to say, "Hey, you know, I need $20,000 worth of repairs." So the board will look at what the appellant submits, and then we'll they'll also take into consideration the other homes in the 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. block and how the, the subject party property under appeal compares to other houses on the block.
Is there any public available information for decisions that are based on neighborhoods?
We can give you breakdown in your district or by zip code. Yeah. So you're looking for appeal results?
Why is that? It seems that that information should be collected and published publicly.
You know what? The question has never came up before. That's something that we could probably add to our website if it's a breakdown by zip code.
Yes, ma'am. Can people engage legal representation in their 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. appeals process?
Yes. It's not required. The appeal process is free and it's so it's not required. And our board is a diverse board, so you don't have to be a real estate expert to come in and appeal. A lot of people do hire attorneys, especially a lot of the commercial owned real estate, but most residential homeowners do not. They come in themselves.
Do you have a sense of what percentage of appeals include legal representation?
Okay. Are there any costs associated with filing an appeal?
Okay. CLS's recent report recommends an independent review of BRT and its appeals process, similar to what's been done for the property assessment process. Do y'all agree with that recommendation? And would you be open to an independent review?
We're open to it. Every 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. year we kind of think, you know, how are we going to improve outreach with all these, these technological advances? We always want to make sure we're considerate of people that don't have Internet access or no QR codes. So we do have our appeal forms on our website that outlines, you know, the appeal process. We are also a public facing department. So we're open 8:30 to 4:30; Monday through Friday for people to come in and file in person. And we take appeals by email as well.
Director, thank you so much for your responses today.
4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Thank you. Thank you so much, Councilmember O'Rourke. The chair now recognizes as Councilmember Young.
Thank you so much, Madam Chair. So I am someone who has been before the board representing clients, trying to get their assessments down on multiple occasions. So I know that process can be frustrating for folks who, you know, who don't have attorneys, who just feel like the city some of my clients, anyway, feel like the city has just been working against them rather for them in the during this process. So can you tell us, how has the inaccurate assessments affected the efficiency of the BRT?
I don't know if I can address the inaccurate assessments, but, you know, state law says the BRT has to be here because we as homeowners can appeal our assessments. So, so that's in place to protect us. Usually our appeal filing volume is dependent on how many notices the assessment 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. office mails out and the, the amount of the percentage change or increase. So our volume is direct related to usually the number of appeals that or excuse me. The number of changed assessments that go out. And then we probably have a base, maybe 2,500 people appeal every year whether they got changed or not. But so our volume usually increases if more people have a higher change in assessment.
And you mentioned, you said by law you're not allowed to make a decision based on someone's income on their on their assessed value. You refer them to the, the programs that the city has essentially. Now can you do you know, is this a state law? Is this a city law? Like, which laws are you prevent you from providing a decision based on someone's income?
Yeah. It's, it's very clear that the board makes a decision on real 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. estate assessment only and they use those facts tied to assessments to make the decision.
And I just know from my own practice that typically when there is a disagreement between the city and a property owner, and the property owner has an they, they have they have got a private appraisal done, they typically try to meet in the middle. Like, that's typically what seems to happen. Is there a process where the can you just, just talk to us about the administrative process of the appeals rather than going to in front of the board itself to see what goes into that? Because I'm just trying to see if there's a way we can lower the amount of actual appeals heard before the board. And there can be some kind of, like, mitigation done, more mitigation done prior to going to the, the full board.
Sure. So about 50 percent appeals get reduced every appeal season. And some of those happen because people come before the board, the board hears their case, and issues 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. a revision letter. A lot of times, though, city assessors from the OPA will reach out and contact a person that has an appeal hearing coming up. And very often times, the OPA too could look at what the petitioner has submitted and say, "Oh, yes. We agree. This, this parcel requires or warrants a reduction." And in those cases, very often a city assessor will reach out to the property owner, and if there's a meeting of the minds and the value being offered, then, yes, you can settle outside of a hearing.
So is there more deference given to OPA's assessment versus the a person a property owner getting their own private appraiser?
No. So like the chief assessor was saying, the OPA does mass appraisal. They don't look at my house or Linda's house and make a decision per house. It's a cluster or a group of properties where if an appellant hires an independent appraisal, it's very specific, targeted to that parcel. That's, that's very strong evidence. So because what if my house is the worst house on 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. the block? You don't know until you open the door.
Or maybe if I'm an income producing property, the City might not know, "Oh, I have three vacancies while my neighbor only has one vacancy." Or if I have a unit that needs repairs. So independent appraisals are very helpful in determining an a property owner's assessed value or their overall valuation. It's only required by our board if the assessment's
What about in cases where there was a recent sale of a property? Do you guys take into consideration the market value of that sale when making a decision on the tax appeals or not?
We do. So that's a that's a big indicator of value. A house for sale on the open market, sold under conditions not of duress. So very often, people will file 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. an appeal with us, and they might include their appraisal report they used to purchase or maybe a copy of their newly recorded deed. That's very common, yes.
Yeah. I only 7 asked that because I worked on a case where the 8 property was recently purchased. The City still 9 came in at a higher rate, and ultimately, they 10 negotiated and settled at an assessment value 11 that was still higher than what the property 12 owner purchased the property for literally, like, 13 that same few months ago. 14 And so that, that tends to happen a 15 lot. And I'm not, you know, just saying that 16 just from anecdotal experiences. I've, I've 17 represented clients directly in these matters. 18 So I just want to bring that to the to the 19 attention of 20
the, the board. 22 But I do know the board is you know, they have 23 been fair. I am going to give the board credit 24 where, where credit is due. They have been fair. 25 I just think that the numbers that you're given 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. to start with aren't fair, and so we end up in a situation that we're in. But I don't have any more questions, Madam Chair, thank you so much for your, your deference.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Councilmember Young. The chair now recognizes Councilmember Landau.
when I worked for the city of Philadelphia. It was good to see you two again.
I, I wanted to ask a couple of questions about what would make your volume lower. It's, it's striking that you had 13,000 appeals in FY 2023. Would your work be easier if OPA assessed properties each year?
Let's go back to why I think this. Oftentimes when you haven't assessed a property for multiple years, the jump is so significant
people get the sticker shock. Plus they haven't been saving up for it, and they aren't able to pay the higher amount, even if that higher amount is the correct amount.
Yeah. So my so my response to your first question. Was is our appeal filing volume would be lower if people had a smaller increase in change. Yes.
Okay. And then the next question, I, I, I, I just don't know the answer to this one; is that when the OPA sends out their assessment, is there language access information on there and is there language access information at your office for folks who want to file an appeal who don't speak English?
So the BRT has language access info only on the citywide language website. And then we work with a translator 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. company to help people that may come into our office that don't speak English. And that same translation company will also come or attend remotely our appeal hearing to help translation services. But, yeah, the only place that information is documented is on the citywide website.
I think we need more language access assistance through this entire process. It is so confusing, even for folks who speak English, that if you're if you're challenged there, it's a very complicated process to figure out how to go about these appeals. I would really hope that you guys could expand your language access.
I also, after a decision is made at the BRT, go back to my original scenario. Your taxes were set at $1,000, but I thought my taxes should be $800. So I file an appeal, and let's say I'm successful. It's $800. How quickly do you get that decision over to the revenue department?
So after someone comes to 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. a, a board hearing, it's two to three weeks before they get their decision letter from us. So the appellants are mailed the decision letter first. It's to 72 hours before we send those 6 results to the Office of Property Assessment. 7 And then the Office of Property Assessment has to 8 prepare a separate document to send that value 9 change to revenue. 10
Why can't your 11 office send the, the decision directly to Revenue 12 right when you're getting it to the homeowner 13 instead of having to go back to OPA? 14
Yeah. Even though the 15 board changes has the power to change the 16 market value or an assessment on a property, we 17 don't have the authorization to make that change 18 directly. So we don't have the ability to change 19 an OPA value. 20
So that should 24 have been an OPA question. I got you. I the entire system has to go faster. I understand. 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. I, I watched how much you guys are working. You have so many appeals to do. If the system were more efficient, we would have fewer appeals, fewer concerned residents, fewer less bias coming out. And also, the whole system could happen even faster. It's very, very challenging on the homeowners, as you know.
Especially when we go back to how it starts, with what you were saying, the clusters. My house is your house could be have far less value than the fancy houses being built down the street, but you're going to get dinged for it, and your property value is going to go up. You're then going to be charged a higher amount. You then have to go through an appeals process. You've got to wait. You've got thousands of thousands of cases before you because of what happened in the past. It's just we'd like to help figure out a, a quicker process
Yeah. And I understand how much is on you and how much you're working, but there's the whole I think we need I, I liked Councilman O'Rourke's suggestion of looking at the whole system through one of our helper, you know, our, our programs that will help you figure it all out.
Thank you. And last question. J. Young? No? Okay. I will recognize. Your light's on.
I'm sorry. Thank you so much, Mr. President. Just one last question. The nunc pro tunc process for late for late appeals, is there a standard, I guess, policy or, or review that the board has when determining when to allow a taxpayer to file a late appeal?
Yes. So we have the right as homeowners to appeal late whenever we see fit. But 90 days past the filing deadline, the board 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. is pretty lenient. When you when you're three months late, six months late, some people file 4 four years late, they become less lenient and the reason for filing late not may not be as clear. So it really is a case-by-case basis, but usually if you're in the first 90 days of the deadline, they're pretty lenient.
Yeah. I just think that most folks won't don't know the 90 days deadline, particularly if I'm paying my taxes late anyway, right? Which a lot of folks tend to do. So and I just think that you know, I, I hope the board provides a little more deference, particularly to those that are lower income, that are trying to get their stuff together and situated, who are just looking for help and don't know where to go. And, and sometimes it actually takes them a year to find out that they have this appeals process available to them. So I just want to put that on record. I hope the, the board, you know, considers the totality of someone's circumstances when making the decision 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. on allowing the nunc pro tunc late appeals. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President.
You're welcome. Any other questions or comments from members of the committee hearing? None. We want to just say thank you
I know you do a lot of hard work and dedicated to helping the citizens here in the state of Philadelphia. So thank you very much.
The chair recognizes Councilmember Gilmore Richardson for a motion that the public hearing and meeting on the bills and resolutions before the committee today stand in recess until Tuesday, April 30, 2024 at 10:00 a.m. sharp in Room 400, City Hall.
Thank you, Mr. President. I move that City Council's Committee on the Whole stand in recess 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. until Tuesday, April 30th at 10:00 a.m. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that the public hearing and meeting on the bills and resolutions before the committee today stand in recess until Tuesday, April 30, 2024 at 10:00 a.m. in Room 9 400, City Hall. All those in favor of the motion will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. This committee will stand in recess until Tuesday, April the 30th, 2024 at 10:00 a.m. at which time we will reconvene at Room 400. Thank you very much. - - - (Committee of the Whole adjourned.) 4/29/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTIONIST I, GEOFFREY NJAGI, Legal Transcriptionist, do hereby certify: That the foregoing is a complete and true transcription of the original digital audio recording of the proceedings captured in the foregoing matter. IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 13th day of May, 2024. ______________________________________ Geoffrey Njagi