I saw one with pipes running through it. It's on Engineering I?
Can you give us just a little more detail on this? I see the drain pipe. I know this is a cross sectional, but I don't really -- how is the water getting in there.
Actually, what it does is, any ground water that comes from the ground itself or atop the yard, it would be -- it would actually go into the drainage material. It would filter down through that to clean stone the whole way down to the drain pipe, Councilman. And that would be lateral through the wall every like 50 feet. And that takes care of any excess water.
It runs perpendicular and 56 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 then there would be T's every 50 feet laterally that would actually go through the wall and protrude out the wall.
Right, it runs right behind it parallel. How does the water get in the pipe?
From many of that -- saturation, soil saturation or any ground water, which causes the freeze/thaw, it makes the stone walls like (unintelligible) the mortar break down and it actually gets in the drainage material, which is a clean stone, and runs down to the drainage pipe.
Right, gotcha, okay. And you said that this material is actually plastic? 57 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041
The reinforcement on the ties, if you look at the black lines that go between the block and back into the ground, they're actually a plastic. It's geosynthetics.
But there's no mortar, per se. Most of the stone walls, if you notice, the -- what happens is, the mortar at the time the stone walls built wasn't good enough and the mortar wears out, and the stone (unintelligible).
And then the rock or the stone starts to shift and then it moves. 58 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041
These -- it's obviously called "VERSA-LOK." Does that mean that the pieces lock into each other? I see these slots here. Is something going through so that they fit together?
Yes, exactly. There's two types. There's a pin-type -- VERSA-LOK's a pin-type system. And then there's a lip or a mechanical connector. There's no mortar involved; it's all dried-laid. It's actually the weight of the product itself that does -- is what holds it up. You know, it's a heavy system, and the weight itself holds the thing together.
I see you've got some pins and dows and also you've got a built-in interlock where the back of one hooks onto the --
The other one. That's the two main type of connections, right, a built-in interlock and a pin system.
So it's two 59 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 different --
Yes. I put a generic representing the whole industry -- this is what's available. We write the specifications that, you know, you want to know -- we're not writing a close-end spec. Once Council picks a product or something like that --
No, we won't be picking this. No, it's the last thing we'd be doing.
Now, we actually want people who know what they're doing to work on things like this.
Right. Councilman, too, we do have experience with our structural engineers in the (unintelligible) section, and they're willing to do all of the design necessary for this program and use this product.
Right, okay. All right. I don't have any more questions.
I don't believe there's any further questions from the committee, either. 60 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 Do you have any closing remarks you wanted to --
There may be -- I don't know if there are citizens who wish to testify, but I guess I'd like to get a sense for the moment from Mr. Lonie and Mr. Dallas of, where are we right now? and talk to me a little bit about potential sources of funding for the revolving fund -- just either things you've looked at, anything, you know, you've ruled out, ruled in, eliminated, don't want to talk about, all of that. Just give me a sense of the funding issues, and then I want to talk about where are we now.
I don't think we're really prepared to talk about what the funding issues are. We just -- our charge here was just to tell you how much it would cost and how we could do it. I'm sure there are a variety of ways to do it, but there are probably people who could better answer it than me on what's the best way to do it.
And as far as the program itself, if funding's made available, we would have to enter into a preliminary design, and we'd be willing to -- again, if the funding was available, 61 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 we could be started by late summer.
If the funding was made available, we could be ready to go by late summer of next year.
Yes. We'd have all of our computer things in place and our community responsibilities met, and I think we'd be ready to go to contract it.
When would you need the funding -- when would you need to know that your funding was in place to meet that kind of a timetable?
The Procurement Department would probably not allow to us advertise the contracts unless there was a funding source made known to them. That's where we'd get stopped. We could proceed up until that point, and if we said Okay, well, we're going to advertise this for bids, Procurement would say, Okay, give us a source code. And we'd say, Well -- and they would 62 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 stop us. And that's probably as far as we could go without knowing where that funding was coming from.
Okay. Okay. All right, Mr. Chairman, I think I'm done my questions for the moment. Let me just -- 'cause I was talking at the time the hearing started. Are we still in the resolution part of our hearing today?
Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry. I was talking at the time that the hearing started. I'm assuming that we're actually still in the resolution.
Okay, all right. I don't know if there are other people who have questions.
Councilmember Clarke, do you have a question? Councilmember Clarke? 63 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for clarity's sake, who is going to contact the Administration or speak for the Administration with respects to my question about trees and yards?
I could talk to them, as a representative from the Managing Director's Office, right after this hearing's over, if you'd like.
Sure. Well, I mean, yeah, we have to find out what the issues are and we'll give you a written response.
Okay. In a prior hearing, and I think it may have been on the resolution when we had the charts up and we were looking at locations, and I had mentioned a particular area in my district, a housing development called People's Village, and there was this issue about parking, common parking areas, where they were essentially sinking, and there was no designation in terms of who was ultimately 64 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 responsible for the maintenance or the ownership. It was a complex that was built of home ownership and they had these common areas, and they've been sinking over the last five or six years, and I had asked the Streets Department to look into that. And has anybody looked into that yet?
We did somewhat look into it, and it's a -- going back to one of those things, it's a settlement issue. But it's, again, private property. So, I mean, we can make recommendations, and we'd be glad to do that, to the owner of that community venture, but as far as the --
Well, that's what I'm saying. We can make recommendations, but it's not in our inventory of streets so we can't do anything. It's like when the parking lot at Eighth and Market was sinking. We can't necessarily do anything -- the Streets Department -- to deal with that. 65 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041
Right, but it's still -- I mean, under the -- under the law, I mean, the responsibilities are the same.
Okay. I would like for to you get me some sort of a response and take it under the same context as we're discussing these retaining walls and driveways.
Where again was that, Councilman? I want to make sure I have that.
It's a development called People's Village. It's from 13th Street on the west, 11th Street on the east. The southern most boundary is Diamond Street and the northern most is Susquehannah.
Well, there are several parking areas within the complex.
It's the home of my State Senator Kitchen, and she's been bugging me 66 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 about this for a while.
Any other questions for these witnesses? (No further questions.)
Is there anyone here who wants to speak on the resolution before we move onto the bill?
Did I hear you say something about the parking lot sinking at Eighth and Market Street? What was that problem?
Well, my point was that -- the problem was that it was just never filled properly when they tore the old buildings down there. But, again, that's not something that the Streets Department could get involved in simply because it's asphalt. I was telling Councilman Clarke that we'll take a look and see maybe what's 67 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 caused the problem, but it's not something that we can necessarily deal with as an operating department, because it is private property.
Well, I'm trying to think of Eighth and Market. Which was the parking lot?
Which is now the hole in the ground. Every year, we have a hole in the ground someplace in Philadelphia.
Well, it wasn't the new foundations that were sinking, was it? There new foundations for parking garages?
Any other questions for these with witnesses? 68 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000660 (No further questions.)
Anyone else here who wishes to testify on the resolution? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the bill.
Bill No. 000660, amending Section 11-506 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Alleys, Driveways and Retaining Walls," by providing additional methods by which the City may pay contractors the City hires to pay for paving or repaving alleys or driveways or to construct or reconstruct retaining walls pursuant to orders to abate nuisances, and by providing a maximum amount that property owners may be assessed for the cost of such work, all under certain terms and conditions.
Excuse me one minute, Paul. The gentleman that just walked in, did you wish to speak on the resolution? UNIDENTIFIED MAN: (Inaudible, off-mic.)
Okay, you weren't here when I announced it, but we'll go back to the 69 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000660 resolution just to allow you the opportunity to speak. Would you please approach the witness table?
You guys can stay here, whoever want to stay. (Witness comes forward.)
I'm sorry. Good morning, Council. My name is Willie Seward, I'm past president of Hapco. I think most of you are familiar with Hapco. We have a couple questions involved on this at this point is, what would be the maximum cost to the average homeowner in case the work is done? Is there anybody here in a position to answer that question? The maximum cost in case work is done on the driveways.
Mr. Lonie, I think the question is really to you. You can address the questions to the Chair, and they will be responded to by the --
Yeah, we would like to know what would be the maximum cost to the homeowner in case some of this work is done. 70 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041
I think that would go on a property-by-property basis based on linear feet involved, right?
And what the rate per linear foot is as to the overall cost of the renovation or reconstruction of the retaining wall. I don't know if we can --
Well, I guess conceivably it could. I mean, I have a relative who lives in the Roxborough section who the Councilman's familiar with, and he just replaced his retaining wall and I think he spent a little bit in excess of $10,000. But he has about 100 to 100 and -- I'm estimating about 100 to 120 foot of retaining wall.
That was his own individual property and his own wall.
Right. I think most of these situations we're looking at --
He's probably going to be upset that he didn't wait, but that's going to be his problem now.
I'm not going to be upset about that, but one of the reasons we're here this morning too is since this was a street, a driveway and alleys situation, we had discussed in our board meeting and sent letters, I think, to the Commissioner of Streets and the Commissioner of L&I for the purpose of having a meeting to discuss ways and means of cleaning up these alleys and driveways. Our proposal or our thoughts was that the homeowners, or whoever could be given a notice through the Streets Department, we understand that L&I have the ordinance to give the violations but they don't have the manpower. Now, the thought was to put out flyers, the typical cheap -- you may say for the City it's cheap to put flyers out -- on the day of trash collection, explaining 72 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 that you are to clean your driveway, your alley in cases of a driveway where you have a garage that you should get the car, the junk car out of the driveway, cut the grass, post the number -- the address on that driveway, be reinspected in possibly 60 days; if not corrected, a violation would be issued. We believe that letters, or strong letters, of that effect would clean up 60 percent of this dirty driveway. And our logic is this: We can go into a house to sell your house. A lot of our members are real estate brokers. And we're not talking about a section; we're talking about the City. I believe this is what you're talking about. We're going to the house, you like the front, you like the street, you like everything, you like the house, and Lord help you when we get to the driveway. This stops a sale, this stops a livelihood. Plus the rear is deteriorating the properties. The property values, I've seen them in any number of cases, are 5, depending on price, are 5 to $10,000 less deteriorated with these driveways. And so what we would like to see you 73 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 do, since you are involved in the alleys and driveways, is try to put something in there that will either give the Streets Department maybe the legal right to give the violation since they have the manpower, we believe. I can -- I can very well understand Sanitation. I don't know who knows this, but I was president of Sanitation back years ago, I worked for Sanitation, so I'm familiar with the operation, that Sanitation could probably put these flyers out where L&I seem to don't have the manpower. And we'd also, if it's -- and I don't want to take too much of your time or the gentleman's time. If for some reason, we could further discuss this in committee one-on-one to see what you could come up with, we would be very happy to do it.
I would strongly suggest that you work with your District Councilperson. There are a number of programs out there which the City could participate in, either through the Partners for Progress, which is a coordinated effort between many of the City agencies -- the Department of L&I, the Streets 74 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 Department, the Health Department -- where a particular area is targeted for massive cleanup and beautification. The -- it's my understanding that the Department of Streets, the Sanitation Division, does have the authority to cite folks for not maintaining their property. Most people don't even realize that you can be issued a citation if your sidewalk, as an example, isn't swept and kept clean. I think we should probably -- I agree with you; I think we need to be a better job of maybe educating people and then the follow-up enforcement 'cause I do believe -- I take it very serious, the maintenance and manicuring of the streets. I think that is really important to the life expectancy of that community and it also adds and lends to the property values in a positive way. So I understand what you're saying and I fully agree with it. I think the best way to approach that would be to work with your District Councilperson to see what you can do about, number one, educating the folks in that community and doing a follow-up enforcement. 75 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 Now, understand, I can assure you that as homeowners begin to get cited for failure to maintain their sidewalks, alleys, and/or driveways, that your District Councilperson will be inundated with calls and letters saying it's just another way in which the City is figuring out a way for people to pay more money into the City without raising more taxes. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. And I don't want to belabor the record with what we're going on now with the street- cleaning program. You would think that -- and I'm sure it happens all over, but in my district, it's like I've asked people to give up their firstborn when we ask them to move their car once a week for an hour. And as I said to Councilman Nutter earlier, I may be the only Councilman who gets thrown out of office for cleaning streets. But I certainly appreciate your comments, and I think you should be working with your District Councilperson to come up with a program that I think would work.
We agree if you have, you know, one block, one alley, work with the 76 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 District. Our testimony today is if you could do something for the whole city, because all over the City, we have these driveways and I thought that with --
And, again, when I say "you," I mean anyone who wants to get involved in a program should speak to their District Councilperson to work on a program to get some of the things that you have described in your testimony accomplished. Thank you for being here and thank you for your patience.
Yes, sir? One other gentleman to testify. (Witness comes forward.)
Yes, good morning. My name is Michael Moffitt, and I'm from the Berks Street-Euclid Street community. And first I want to say that I want to thank all of the committee 77 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 that are involved in this strenuous effort in order to resolve this situation and also for the City of Philadelphia too who has come up with a good plan from my perspective, you know, in resolving this situation. But getting back to my particular block, okay, which is the 5200 block of Berks Street and also Euclid Street -- Mr. Lonie, right?
Okay, Mr. Lonie, you had made mention of a new technology. That wall, instead of costing was the estimate of $200,000, he got it down to $60,000, okay, and I just want to know, per household, what would that be and over what period of time?
Okay. I think the other gentleman asked the same question but we never got the answer. Mr. Lonie?
Well, what that would come down to -- again, I'm not sure exactly how many properties are on there, Councilman Nutter, about 60?
Yeah, there's like 78 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 52-58.
Right, yeah, so about 60. So, again, if the project comes in at about $60,000 at $1,000 a property, we'd be looking for that over 4 years, and it would come to about $250 per year per property.
That's an average estimated on the overall project and dividing it by 60; it could be more, it could be less.
Okay, that's including the wall itself and also the driveway?
Well, again, if this program becomes viable, what we'll do, again, following -- and I have a feeling -- I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that Berks and Euclid's going to be the first place we're going to go visit, that we will come out and do a complete cost estimate, we'll know exactly, and we'll hold a community meeting out there and let everyone know exactly these questions, but we have to do that on an individual basis. We can't really, without getting into the actual engineering of the project, know what we're 79 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 talking about.
Okay. And also another question. I don't know the gentleman's name, but I think he said that the loans would be at 3 percent?
3 percent? Okay. I just want to be able to have something to give to, you know, those homeowners on Berks Street and Euclid Street.
I'm sure that you'll have something in writing that will be supplied to you by the District Councilperson prior to and as a result of possible community meetings. It will be explained to everyone at that time.
Okay, thank you very much. That was my next question: Is there anything that I can have in hand and since you have answered that question --
I'm certain that Councilman Nutter will make sure that you have something.
Thank you very much. 80 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041
Thank you very much for your testimony. I do again want to emphasize both to the Streets Department and to the Managing Director's office, I think that we have to be prepared to deal with a couple circumstances and situations throughout the City where you may have interest by a smaller-than-75-percent homeowner group, but unquestionably, without a shadow of a doubt in your mind, there is a clear and present danger that exists. And I think that some of us, and I will state for the record that in some of those situations, I will want that work done. And there will be some homeowners who will be unhappy, but I believe my larger responsibility is to protect the health, safety, and welfare of people and not let, even in some situations, a financial concern stand in the way of the City doing what is the right thing and making sure that people are safe out there. 81 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 And I think that we have to have a mechanism built into the program that allows for, notwithstanding whatever the percentage is, there is an override capability that says, We are doing this work. You can like it, you cannot like it, but we're going to fix this wall, we're going to fix this driveway. You mess around for a long period of time -- I mean, basically, you messed around for a long period of time, whatever the past was, couldn't seem to get it together, we're not going to allow it to exist any longer, we're doing it. You can pay the bill when you get it, you can not pay the bill when you get it. We're going to put a lien on your house, we're going to collect one way or the other, but we're going to get this work done and we're not going to get jerked around because people don't want to step up to their responsibility.
Councilman, I agree. I believe that's what Mr. Dallas said earlier, that there are public safety issues that are involved that will maybe take a little more precedence over that 75 percent rule. 82 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041
One of the other reasons that I failed mention to before is that, again, we only have a certain amount the money.
And if we feel to prioritize -- well, we don't have any money yet.
But if we did have some money that, again, I think it would be imperative, if this program becomes viable, that people really kind of get behind it. And if we have requests from 8,000 driveway folks, it's going to take that program out (unintelligible), but if we can't necessarily prioritize one way or the other, but in that side of the program, if all of those people really want to get it done, then, yeah, then they deserve that.
Right, right. And that will have to still be the responsibility of the neighborhood people. If they've been wanting something for a long period of time, part of their responsibility, I think, is to sell their other neighbors to the greatest extent possible, because 83 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 I will also say that, you know, in those situations where it may not be the worst safety hazard but it's still somewhat dangerous, I think, as elected officials, we have to go in those community meetings and say to people: One, you're not getting something for nothing; two, if you don't want to participate, we can end the meeting now, I'll go onto the next neighborhood that really wants to get something done. You can get back to me when you get your act together, and I'll be glad to talk to you. So, I mean, I think it works both ways.
I just have one question. When we speak of alleys, to me, an alley is something that's two to three foot wide behind someone's home. Is that the same alley we're talking about here?
I wanted to make sure of that. For some reason, I thought it may have been something that -- 84 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041
Well, alleys have never really been mentioned much in this program because the main purpose of an alley historically was to remove ashes from a coal-burning house and to remove the garbage. We do neither of those anymore, so what's happened over the years is, a lot of folks close the alleys off 'cause they feel they're not safe and they build their fences across them. This program is very difficult to deal with. And I think that's a whole separate issue that I think we should maybe address at a different time because as far as this program is concerned, it -- you're mixing apples with oranges.
There's a few thousand of miles of alleys in this city, and I don't think we wanted to get into that.
But we will -- I mean, if 85 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 under this program, if the District Councilperson wrote to the Streets Commissioner and said, Hey, I've got a real problem out here and we'll take a look, but I don't know how much we can do in a case like that.
Any other questions for these witnesses? Councilman Cohen.
I want to make clear that I have some differences with Councilman Nutter. I have some differences. I think the people of Philadelphia have suffered a great deal on this problem and that they have many more complaints than the City has. The City has just washed its hands as if this were an impossible problem to cope with. And the City was just letting property values fall, was letting property values deteriorate, only increasing the problems with the City. I do think there has to be tight fiscal management, as Councilman Nutter has indicated, and I think we want everybody to do our share. And I view this as the beginning of a program. It may be the whole program. You know, we just don't 86 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 know, but I think it's important for the whole City to back homeowners who want to improve their conditions and who want to keep their areas from becoming public menaces and who also have a pride -- just have a pride about ownership of good property. We want to put an end, I think, to using driveways as places where you store old cars. That just becomes something you never want to show a prospective buyer if you're interested in selling your house because you know that will discourage him. And I think this program begins the lead in the right direction. And so, as I said earlier, I applaud both Councilman Nutter and Councilman Clarke for their interest in moving ahead, and the Streets Department officials who are beginning to address this problem. It was a strange thing. Near the end of David L. Cohen's seven-year term as the City's Chief of Staff, there was a meeting ongoing, and one of the -- I think Councilwoman Krajewski's office on the fifth floor, and this issue was raised with him, and he looked blank. He said, 87 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 What are you talking about? And we explained it in detail. And he said that no one had ever raised the issue. And what that meant was that you fellows, who kind of comprise a bureaucracy, are sometimes too quick to say, We're bound by a limited sum of money or by a City policy that says this is a private owner's problem. No one had ever raised with the Chief of Staff this problem, despite the mounting pressure that Councilmembers and ward leaders and committee members and community activists have felt over many, many years. So I'm just suggesting to you people to don't always let existing policy govern your policies; those existing policies can change. And I think we're in the process of changing some existing policies for the better, and I want to thank you for your efforts in that direction. Thanks.
I just have to say this, and it might not be the most popular thing. I just have to remind Council that we started this all off with, It's still the Administration's 88 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 position that these structures are private property and not the responsibility of the City.
Well, that gets me angry. I want to interrupt you 'cause I think that's dead wrong, I think your attitude is dead wrong, and I think maybe I withdraw some of the compliments I just gave to the City bureaucracy. Because I think you in large part have been responsible for these conditions developing to the point they have. Why would it be that the Chief of Staff would never have even heard of the problem, except for the fact that you kept the problem hidden by telling homeowners, There's nothing we can do? It was it was your responsibility to tell your appropriate officials so they, in turn, could let the Chief of Staff know that there did exist a serious problem. And it is wrong to say that it is only the homeowner's problem because you're wrong legally and you're wrong factually; it is also the responsibility of the City. The City today, in my judgment, could be sued, and would be successfully sued, by anybody who fell in anybody's driveway where the 89 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041 City had once condemned the area as unsafe. There are lawsuits on record with respect to the pier because the City failed to examine that pier that sank into the water. And the City has a heavy legal responsibility currently for any damages that may occur as a result of the City's negligence in taking steps to correct a condition which the City itself has found to be imminently dangerous.
Thank you. Mr. Dallas, do you care to make any other statements?
That being said, I think -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)
Mr. Chairman, let the record reflect that Mr. Dallas had almost escaped this hearing unscathed.
Almost, almost. 90 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - RES. 000041
But, unfortunately, chose to pull victory out -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)
We will now hear testimony on Bill No. 000660. The clerk will read the title of the bill.
Okay, Bill No. 000660, amending Section 11-506 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Alleys, Driveways and Retaining Walls," by providing additional methods by which the City may pay contractors the City hires to pave or to repave alleys or driveways or to construct or reconstruct retaining walls pursuant to orders to abate nuisances, and by providing the maximum amount the property owners may be assessed for the cost of such work, all under certain terms and conditions.
Good afternoon and please identify yourself for the record and begin with your testimony.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Paul Lonie, Survey Bureau Manager with the 91 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000660 Department of Streets, and the Department of Streets would like to offer the following testimony on Bill No. 000660. This is not an administration ordinance 6 but an ordinance and the Department of Streets at this time feels that testifying on this bill would be premature and decides not to testify on this bill. Thank you.
I think -- I think my last comment got me in enough trouble, but I'll just have to --
Mr. Chairman, I think this is the first time I've either ever heard a department take the fifth amendment.
For the record, given the Administration's position, we obviously, at this time, cannot -- are not in support of this bill.
Mr. Dallas, is that a function of the discussion in the earlier 92 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000660 hearing with regard to the revolving loan -- I mean, I guess the record should at least be clear that this bill comes as a result of, I think, a fair amount of work done by the Streets Department, if not some other elements of the Administration. I cannot take any particular credit for having come up with this particular idea; it was given to me by people in the Administration. Is it fair to say, though, that if the funding source was identified and ready to go forward, then this bill would essentially be the mechanism that would allow us to roll out the program that we've discussed in the earlier hearing on the resolution; is that correct?
If the question you're asking is, would this legislation allow us to implement the program that we discussed, then the answer is yes.
Then the answer is yes. And if the funding source is in place and identified, then I'm assuming, based on your previous comment, you would then be testifying in favor of the bill; is that correct? 93 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000660
The Administration's position at this time is that these are private structures and they're best left to the private homeowners. (Mr. Dallas confers privately with Mr. Lonie).
When Paul taps you on the shoulder, he's trying to tell you not to say what you're getting ready to say, and you should listen to him because he's been around for a long time. (Laughter.)
The baby-like qualities of your face tell me that you've not been in the government for very long and, therefore, you should therefore listen to Mr. Lonie, who is a treasure trove of information. All right. So you -- did you have something that you wanted to share as a result of his advice?
No, all right. So you're, basically, you don't want to get caught in 94 11/21/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000660 the hypothetical of if you had the money in place, you'd be testifying in support of it, but at the moment, you don't have the money and so, therefore, you don't want to say necessarily say you're in support of the bill, even though if the funding was in place, this is the bill that would allow the implementation of the program. Is that right?
Okay. Mr. Chairman, I think there have been some discussions about the recessing of this particular hearing to a date certain while we --
In the absence of a quorum, the public meeting will be recessed until December 4th. Let's see, what day of the week is that?