Committee Hearing, March 9, 2004

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY - - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, March 9, 2003 10:00 a.m. - - - - BILL 040117 - An Ordinance amending Chapter 10-800 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Safety" by adding a Section 10-831 entitled "Straw and Multiple gun Purchase Reduction"... BILL 040118 - An Ordinance amending Chapter 12 10-800 of the Philadelphia Code... BILL 040136 - An Ordinance amending Chapter 13 10-800 of the Philadelphia Code... BILL 040137 - An Ordinance amending Chapter 14 10-800 of the Philadelphia Code... BILL 040113 - An Ordinance amending Chapter 15 10-800 of the Philadelphia Code... BILL 040132 - An Ordinance amending Chapter 16 10-800 of the Philadelphia Code... 17 PRESENT: 18 COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER, Chair 19 COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE 20 COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILWOMAN JOAN KRAJEWSKI 21 COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS 22 - - - - 23 V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services 24 Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 25 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 1 2 I N D E X WITNESS SYLVESTER JOHNSON, Police Commissioner.. 8 DEXTER GREEN, School District........... 41 BALIL QUYUN, Men United for a Better Philadelphia........................ 43 MATTHEW SCHWARTZ, Pennsylvanians Against Handgun Violence.................... 46 RAY JONES, Men United for a Better Philadelphia........................ 57 JAMES C. HIGGINS, Million Mom March..... 67 DIANE EDBRIL, Cease-fire Pennsylvania... 73 BARBARA MONTGOMERY, Million Mom March... 80 CHAD RAMSEY, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence........................ 86 THOMAS W. BLACKWELL, IV, Belmont Improvement Association............ 102 SHIRLEY BOGGS, Mothers United Through Tragedy............................ 105 DOROTHY JOHNSON-SPEIGHT, Mothers in Charge............................. 109 CHERIE RYAN, Mothers in Charge......... 112 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER................... 115 THERESA PINKETT, Families Are Victims Too................................ 119 SHELLY YANOFF, CCY..................... 126 GREGORY JASKOLKA....................... 127 Wayne Jacobs, Ex-Offenders for Community Empowerment........................ 130 STEVEN BLACKBURN, Ex-Offenders for Community Empowerment.............. 132 LESLIE WILLIS-LOWRY.................... 133 DEBORAH WILLIAMS....................... 140 3 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY

Good morning, everyone. The Committee on Public Safety is now in session. We have a quorum. To my left we have Council President Ann Verna, Councilwoman Krajewski, and to my right Councilman Darrell Clarke, who has been appointed to this Committee today. The Clerk will shortly read the title of the bills. And I just want to have some opening comments before we do that. Good morning and welcome to this very important public hearing in trying to assist us, and thank you for coming to try to assist us in making the necessary changes in the law regarding the purchase and transfer of firearms in this City. Most importantly is the public safety and protection of all of our citizens, particularly our children and our older adults. Councilman Clarke, do you have some opening remarks before we have the Clerk read the title of the bill?

Thank you, Madam Chair. 4 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Good morning. First of all, I'd like to thank everyone who came today. Hopefully, we'll have your support for what we believe to be very important legislation. I would like to also say that we understand and we respect the State's right to regulate guns in the State of Pennsylvania. We understand that they clearly preempt any local municipality's ability to regulate gun legislation. What we are asking for today with the passage of these bills is simply authorization on the state level to authorize the City of Philadelphia to regulate guns to give the law enforcement authorities the proper and much needed ability to have a serious crime fighting tool at their hands. We hope to have some serious dialog with State Legislators and the Governor, who has as Mayor indicated his strong willingness to support gun legislation on the local level and also on the state level. We hope that we will have the support of these individuals here today as we move forward to the State and hopefully enact some state legislation. 5 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY So today we will hear what I believe to be strong and compelling testimony as it relates to the need to stem the tide of violence. And hopefully, we will be in a position to have the State to authorize us to enact something on the local level. Thank you.

Thank you. Will the Clerk read the title of the first bill?

Bill No. 040117, an ordinance amending Chapter 10-800 of The Philadelphia Code entitled, "Safety," by adding a new Section 10-831 entitled, "Straw and Multiple Gun Purchase Reduction," to limit purchases of firearms by Philadelphia residents to one month, and to prohibit "straw purchases" of firearms utilized by criminals for the purpose of evading the one gun a month limitation; all under certain terms and conditions.

Thank you. Is there anyone here who is going to testify on this bill? 6 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY I think, Police Commissioner Sylvester Johnson, you are the first person on the witness list. Will you please come to the table? Actually, what we're going to do before you begin your testimony, Commissioner Johnson, is just read all of the bills, because people are here to generally testify just about the violence and the need for weapon control, so we're going to read all the bills and then we'll proceed with testimony.

Bill No. 040118, an ordinance amending Chapter 10-800 of the Philadelphia Code entitled, "Safety," by adding a new Section 10-824 entitled, "Sale or Transfer of Ammunition," to require all sales of ammunition for firearms to be reported to the City of Philadelphia Police Department and to require that Department to maintain a registry of such reports; all under certain terms and conditions. Bill No. 040136, an ordinance 24 amending Chapter 10-800 of the Philadelphia Code entitled, "Safety," by adding a new 7 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Section entitled, "Acquisition or Transfer of Firearms," to regulate the acquiring or transferring of any firearm within the City of Philadelphia; all under certain terms and conditions. Bill No. 040137, an ordinance 8 amending Chapter 10-800 of The Philadelphia Code entitled, "Safety," by adding a new Section entitled, "Reporting Requirements Upon the Application for or Renewal of a License to Carry a Firearm," to provide for certain reporting requirements for the issuance or renewal of licenses to carry firearms within the City of Philadelphia; all under certain terms and conditions. Bill No. 040113, an ordinance 18 amending Chapter 10-800 of The Philadelphia Code entitled, "Safety," by adding a new Section 10-832 entitled, "Firearms Tracing," to require the City of Philadelphia Police Department to conduct traces of firearms illegally purchased by anyone under 21 years of age; all under certain terms and conditions. 8 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY And Bill No. 040132, an ordinance 3 amending Chapter 10-800 of The Philadelphia Code entitled, "Safety," by adding a new Section entitled, "Prohibited Possession, Sales and Transfers of Firearms by Persons Subject to the Protection from Abuse"; all under certain terms and conditions.

Thank you. This is for all witnesses. Please state your name and identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Shall I proceed?

Yes. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Commissioner Sylvester Johnson, Police Commissioner, City of Philadelphia. Good morning, Councilwoman Miller, Members of the Public Safety Committee, City Councilmembers. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to appear before you this morning in support of this legislation, which addresses one of the most serious crises facing our great City. Thank you for bringing 9 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY the issues of gun violence and desperately needed changes that Philadelphia needs from Harrisburg to the forefront. The human cost of gun violence is devastating to the soul of our City. The numbers tell a staggering story. In 2003, there were 348 homicides in our City, of which 273, almost 80 percent, were committed with a gun. That same year there were 1,140 gunshot victims in Philadelphia, some suffering only minor wounds, but many suffering permanent disabling injuries. Another 1,958 Philadelphians were victims of aggravated assault by guns, but suffered no injuries, thanks only to the bad aim of the shooter, a malfunctioning gun or other circumstances that spared them. During 2003, almost 5,500 guns were recovered by the Philadelphia Police Department throughout the City. In 2003, the resources of uniformed police and radio dispatchers were taxed by almost 7,500 calls to 911 reporting gunshots, and nearly 30,000 reports of persons with a gun. In the three-year period from 10 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY January 1, 2001 to February 10, 2004, there were 4,859 gunshot victims killed or injured by gun violence. Of that number, at least 432 were juveniles. These are not cold statistics. Each one is a person whose hopes and dreams are forever changed. The Philadelphia Police Department has been relentless in its efforts to fight gun violence. Our commitment of personnel to narcotics enforcement and Operation Safe Streets is a direct attack on gun violence. In cooperation with federal authorities, we can remove illegal guns from the streets and track their origins to the sources. Through such programs as G.R.I.P, we have encouraged residents of our community who know of illegal guns to get information to police so that we can take these guns off our streets. I also want to thank Men United for a Better Philadelphia, who also had a gun give-back. I think that the gun give-back has put in 40 or 50 guns. Some people complain that these guns are just guns that are inactive, but these guns kill. So the help 11 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY and cooperation between the Men United for a Better Philadelphia and the Philadelphia Police Department with the G.R.I.P. Program has been taking these guns off the street. We're also looking for new and innovative ways to keep guns off the street, but law enforcement can't do it alone. This legislation addresses the environment in our City which allows gun violence to flourish. It is this type of legislation which will change the illegal gun-friendly environment which allows gun violence to escalate to epidemic proportions. I would like to commend the sponsors of this legislation and the Members of this Committee for recognizing the grave situation we face and looking for ways to change the environment. This legislation shows that our City Council will do all it can within the confines of law to give law enforcement the tools it needs to effectively fight the fight and reclaim our streets. We owe it to the family and friends of Faheem Thomas-Childs and to his memory to do all we can to make him the 12 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY last victim of this epidemic. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Commissioner. Are there any questions of this witness from Members of the Committee? Also for the record, I'd like to acknowledge the presence of Councilman Juan Ramos, who is a Member of this Committee, and Councilman David Cohen, who is also a Member of this Committee, for the record. Are there any questions of this witness? Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good morning, sir.

Commissioner, I want to ask you a couple of questions with respect to the one gun a month, and I actually have another question about another bill 25 that's been listed with respect to permit to 13 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY carry issuance. Let me understand this. Right now, Joan Q. Citizen -- and what I'm hearing from certain members in law enforcement -- Joan Q. Citizen could potentially go to a gun store and purchase upwards of 50 guns. That is legal? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir, it is.

And if that person has a permit to carry a weapon, then that person could probably leave that store with those 50 guns? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir.

Is there any notification requirement by that gun store owner to notify local law enforcement if this person comes in and buys 50 guns and leaves that store with 50 guns within an hour -- because I understand if you have a permit to carry, you've already passed a federal background check? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's correct. It appears like -- especially that 14 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY you have a lot of gun shows here in Pennsylvania. If a person goes to one of these shows and he has a permit, with the idea that a person who gets a permit has a criminal record check, he can conceivably walk into one of these shows and leave with 40 or 50 guns without being investigated.

I actually had the occasion to go to a gun show, because at that time I had the permit to carry a gun, and I was quite amazed at some of the hardware that people were leaving with. I actually saw individuals purchasing 9-millimeters with sites on them, laser sites, and I wondered was that the weapon of choice to hunt deer or rabbits. Because I don't traditionally view that as the type of weapon that you would hunt a deer or rabbit. I was trying to get a sense of why a person needed a 9-millimeter with a laser site on to be a sportsman. If you had the ability to know what individuals were purchasing multiple weapons, particularly once you get into the 50s and 100s, would that give you a better opportunity 15 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY to have the ability to, at a minimum, know that there's a potential that there may be some straw purchases taking place? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir. In addition to that, if we had the ability to know who purchased these guns and where these guns actually came from, when there's a crime committed, we can trace this gun right back to that individual person. At this point, we have some guns who are legally issued -- in other words, with straw purchases, they buy these guns because you can buy a gun here if you don't have a criminal record and if you don't have a record of mental illness. Once they get the guns, then they sell it to the illegal people who couldn't get the guns because of the criminal record. The legislation giving them one gun a month would eliminate that. In addition to that, a lot of times what happens is that once we find the gun and we bring it back to the person who had bought the gun, their thing is, "Well, it was stolen, or it's missing and we just never reported 16 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY it." There's nothing in the law that says they really have to report, although they should report these guns. The one gun a month would eliminate a lot of the straw purchases. It would give us an opportunity to do a better investigation to trace these guns to find out where these guns are coming from. Our feeling is that these handguns are normally not used -- I don't have to tell you that -- for hunting. In Philadelphia, they're used to kill people. And they've been doing it. You get these automatic weapons that are being put out there who have better guns than what the police officers have themselves.

So unless a weapon is recovered in a commission of crime, you have no way of knowing where that gun came from, who purchased it? It could have traveled through 50 individuals' hands, but until an actual crime is committed, you have no ability to trace that weapon? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's correct. 17 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY

That's unfortunate. One other issue. I have another bill that I actually, with the support of this Council, got passed a couple of years ago. And I was a little younger then and a little more energetic and a little naive in thinking that it could pass on a local level without State authorization. So we introduced a bill 11 this time requesting State authorization before we can implement the bill that required that an individual, upon getting a permit issued to carry a weapon on the streets of Philadelphia, simply notify at the time of that permit issuance what guns they're asking to carry on the streets of Philadelphia. I frankly think it's a reasonable request because the City of Philadelphia is involved in a process by virtue of State legislation that was passed some years ago that required that the local law enforcement issue the permit, i.e., the Police Department, and those individuals must come into the Police Department. I believe you have to have 18 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY a couple pictures and they run a background check. And then if everything checks out, you're issued this permit. But at that time you're not required to indicate to the local law enforcement what guns you have or what guns you're being authorized to carry on the streets of Philadelphia. I think that if you're asking for permission from the City of Philadelphia to carry weapons on the street, then law enforcement should at least have a sense of what weapons you're talking about. My understanding on the existing law -- correct me if I'm wrong -- is that if an individual had a hundred weapons in his ownership and he got a permit to carry, every day that person could come out with a different weapon. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's correct. At one time not too long ago when you applied for a gun permit you had to have a reason to carry that gun permit, and it went in front of a committee. And if the reason wasn't sufficient, then you wouldn't get a gun 19 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY permit. In addition to that, once you were permitted to carry the gun, you had to go to a range and qualify with this gun and we'd know exactly what gun that you had. But what you're saying right now, Councilman, that is no longer the case. If a person receives a gun permit, he can carry whatever gun he wants to carry.

If we were in a position -- and I know this could be somewhat cumbersome in terms of the administrative capacity of the Police Department, but say we had the wherewithal to do that. If we were in a position to, first of all, have an idea of what guns this person was being issued a permit to and authorized to carry on the streets of Philadelphia, and as indicated in the bill, have a yearly reporting requirement to essentially say, "A year ago I got a permit to carry these weapons. I have 30 guns. A year from now I still have those 30 guns," and that would be a form that that person would have to fill out on a yearly basis. If in 20 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY fact that person only had 25 guns subsequent to the initial issuance of a permit, that person will be required to tell what happened to the five guns that are now missing, and it would then put you in a position to have a sense of where those guns are, if they sold a gun or if they lost a gun. At a minimum, you'd have an idea that those guns were no 10 longer in that person's possession. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: As I said, I think any legislation, anything, no matter how minor it is, it's better than what we have now. It would be a help. I'm sure you or the Committee are not trying to violate anybody's Constitutional rights. But we have to face reality that 80 percent of our homicides here in the City of Philadelphia are being committed by handguns.

For the record, so it is clear, we're not attempting to prohibit individuals from purchasing more than one gun a month. We understand that we have a lot of sportsmen in the City of Philadelphia. But what we're simply saying is that if you 21 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY purchase more than one gun a month, it would trigger a notification process that the City of Philadelphia law enforcement -- not anybody else, not any of the Members of this Committee, because we're not trying to violate anyone's federal and state rights -- but the law enforcement agency will be notified that this person has purchased multiple weapons. So that's all we're simply asking for on a local level. Thank you. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Thank you, sir.

Councilman Ramos.

David had his hand up first.

Councilman Cohen.

Commissioner, it's always good to see you here. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Same here, sir.

I admit that 22 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY limiting purchases of guns to one a month is a vast improvement over the present system, but why in the world would anybody need a gun a month? I'm puzzled by that. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I don't think they need one gun a month. I don't think they need one gun a year. But I think what the Councilman is saying, and I agree with him, is that we do have a lot of people who are using this straw purchase as a way to get illegal guns on the street. By putting this legislation into place, it will prevent those people who are out there right now buying 10, 15 guns sometimes a week to give it to the illegal people or people who are doing illegal acts. It would prevent that. So it would take away some of the criminal elements being able to get a person who they know and give them extra money to go out there and get them a weapon. It would totally and completely eliminate that. Again, any small step is a help. Again, as far I'm concerned, you should have a reason to get a gun. But that's 23 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY not reality right now. The reality is that if you don't have a criminal record and you don't have a mental illness, that's the law. You can buy a gun. But it should not give you the right to buy 40, 50 guns a week or 40, 50 guns a month or 40, 50 a year.

Without asking you to express an opinion on the wisdom of the State's law, which apparently is that guns can only be regulated by the State, in your experience as a police officer over many, many years, is it a fact that different communities may require different kinds of controls over the use of weapons like guns? For example, aren't the needs in a city like Philadelphia much greater than the needs, say, of a rural community? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I would believe so. I would also hope to see that in Harrisburg -- again, it's just my opinion -- that if the legislation comes into existence, that it would affect Philadelphia. Because right now the homicides and the killings are affecting Philadelphia. I think it should be 24 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY the first class city, which would be Philadelphia, in the State of Pennsylvania. There are so many guns on the streets. Just look at Faheem Childs. We had six guns. That's six guns that we knew of because they were automatic guns. It may have been more if they were revolvers, which we wouldn't have found the projectiles. We wouldn't have found the casings on the streets. So we're just presuming there were six guns because there were six projectiles or six casings we found on the street. Again, if it was a revolver, we wouldn't even have that information. Based on the history that I know of, it seems like the State is against regulation of guns, and that's why I appreciate the legislation that's being presented here today by the people who are representing the citizens of Philadelphia, and these are the Councilpeople seeing that there's a major issue here that we have in the City of Philadelphia of gun violence.

I've always been 25 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY concerned even by the ability to buy guns, believing that the availability, even of a legal gun, makes available in a moment of emotional crisis, for example, if somebody gets shocked, their judgment usually is not as good as before the shock came. If there were no gun available, they couldn't use it. If a gun is available, they may use it. Is there any study which indicates that the threat is of illegal guns alone, or is there also a threat that comes from those who have acquired guns legally? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Again, this weekend we had six homicides by guns. Whether they're legal guns or illegal guns, they're killing our kids in the streets. So it doesn't make any difference to me really whether a gun is legal or illegal because both kill.

That's certainly true. Thank you very much, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Thank you, sir.

Thank you, 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Councilman Cohen. Councilman Ramos.

Commissioner, thank you for coming here today and thank you for your presence in our community, especially in time of deep sorrow. You have done a splendid job over the years and you still have many challenges before you. In your statement today, you said that you recovered 5,500 guns last year, and 7,500 people call about gunshots into your 911 system, and that there were nearly 30,000 reports of persons with a gun. Do you have any idea about how many illegal guns are out in the streets of Philadelphia? You already recovered 5,500. That's a staggering number. Do you have any idea how many illegal guns are in the City of Philadelphia? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm quite sure there's a lot more than that.

Ten thousand? You think twice the amount you recovered? 27 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, in 2001 -- I don't have the statistics for 2002 with me, but in 2001 we had 5,144 guns in the City of Philadelphia. So it seems like we're averaging -- and these are the guns that we've confiscated -- an average of over 5,000 that we confiscated. So I would think that might only be about 20, percent of the guns that 10 are on the streets. That's just my opinion. 11

So you're saying 12 that there might be 20,000 illegal guns in the 13 streets of Philadelphia? 14 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, I'm not 15 saying that they're illegal. When I say 5,000 16 guns, every gun that we got or confiscated may 17 not have been an illegal gun. It may have 18 been a legal gun that was used in the 19 commission of a crime or someone caught them 20 out there on the street. In other words, by 21 being legal, they bought the gun legally, but 22 they may not have been carrying it legally, or 23 they had it in their car or they had in their 24 homes or they had it some other place. So the 25 5,000 is not just indicating that it's 5,000 28 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY illegal guns. It's just indicating that there were over 5,000 guns that the Philadelphia Police Department came in contact with.

So there could be, whether legal or not, 25,000 guns out there in our street? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Sure, there could be.

Thank you, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman. Commissioner, how old do you have to be to get a permit to carry a weapon? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I believe it's 21.

Good. I thought maybe it was 18. I'm glad it's at least 21. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I don't want to bring any problem up, but you can be a police officer at 19 and you can carry a gun. I guess if you're not a police officer or law 29 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY enforcement person, it would take you to be to carry the weapon.

Okay. I agree 5 with Councilman Cohen. I just don't even know 6 why people need to buy a gun a month, and 7 certainly not 50 or more, whatever, at gun 8 shows or at any of these gun shops here in 9 Philadelphia. 10 You answered the question I was 11 originally going to ask, and that was the 12 types of weapons that were used according to 13 the shells that you found when Faheem Childs 14 was shot. You said according to the shells, 15 it was automatic weapons, correct? 16 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's 17 correct. One was a rifle and the rest of them 18 were automatic weapons from a 45 and a 19 9-millimeter, which is similar to a 38-caliber 20 weapon. I don't have the other list of guns, 21 but they were all automatic weapons from the casings that we found on the street.

When you go to national conferences of people in law enforcement, has there been any discussion of 30 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY any cities where the State has given them special controls or special powers to regulate weapons, or is it pretty much general across the board, across the United States, that states control weapon legislation? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think every state is completely different. I belong to what they call Major City Chief Conference, and it's 61 police chiefs. And to qualify to be a member of this organization, you have to have at least a thousand police officers and a population of 100 million. I'm not sure of the legislation in these particular states, but I know that handguns are a concern of every major city chief in the entire nation. As a matter of fact, last year we had the International Chief of Police conference here in Philadelphia, and they gave a news conference relating to handguns. Detroit just had two police officers killed in Detroit by handguns. LA last week had a police officer killed, and other people are being killed every single day. Handgun legislation is a concern, and we've been 31 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY fighting the National Rifle Association on a continuing basis about the legislation involving handguns. Every police chief is concerned about handguns because handguns kill.

Councilwoman Krajewski.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good morning, Councilwoman.

Commissioner, my question here is, of all the guns, the ones that are legally given, permitted, do you have any idea of how many of them have actually committed the crimes? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No, I don't have any hard facts on that. One of the things that right now in the war we have against drugs -- and we realize that most of the times when we serve a warrant for drug activity we find guns, because they have to protect themselves. They can't go to the 32 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY police and say, we just lost four kilos of cocaine and we lost X amount of things. They have to protect themselves. But I don't know the exact numbers. But normally when we find cocaine, heroin or marijuana or anything in the house, we find guns, numerous amounts of guns. I don't which is legal or which is illegal. I just know the statistics. But I can basically find that information out for you, Councilwoman, and get it back to you.

I'd just be interested to see what the difference is. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am.

Thank you, Commissioner.

Thank you. Does any other Committee Member have questions of this witness?

Madam Chair, just quickly. My line of questioning was trying to get also to the point where Councilwoman Krajewski was at. If 20,000 guns are in the City of Philadelphia, if that is the number, we need to find out to protect the rights of 33 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY those people that have purchased guns and use them for hunting, and are doing the right thing under the law. I think that if we can find out how many are illegal guns versus legal guns, I think that would be a lot of help to us. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, the facts are, we can't arrest a person with a legal gun. In other words, if we find a person who has a gun permit that has a legal gun, there is no arrest. All the guns we basically confiscated, as far as we're concerned by law, were illegal. That's why we confiscated them. We can't confiscate a legal gun. We can't arrest on a legal gun.

The ones that are registered. We're saying if someone has a permit, legally has a permit, what is the difference between as far as how many of those have been convicted, as well as the ones that have been carrying guns? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: If a person has a permit to carry and is stopped by the police, there is no arrest. If the person has 34 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY a permit to carry and he commits a criminal act, then we're going to confiscate the gun and he's going to be arrested.

Well, that's the question. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, the answer is the only time we confiscate a gun is when there's been an illegal act. So we just don't confiscate people's guns. People have a right to have a gun in their homes.

I understand that, Commissioner. I'm saying, how many people that have committed a crime that legally have a permit to carry the gun have been arrested? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I understand. I would have to find that out.

I believe that's what we're trying to say here. Thank you, Commissioner. That's the question. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I will find out for you.

Commissioner, is there a way of tracking if it were bought 35 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY legally someplace and then they ended up being sold? Hypothetically, do you think that there are people that come to these gun shows, buy these 50 guns, buy that weapon my colleague Councilman Clarke referred to, a 9-millimeter with a laser scope, you said, Councilman? Is there any way that we trace if you went to the gun show, you bought these weapons, and two years later they land up in the streets of North Philadelphia? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: My understanding from talking to our Councilperson here is that the legislation calls for the tracking. I think that's what this legislation is about. At this point we don't do that, but this would give us the authority to do it.

Councilman Cohen.

I'm not sure whether I'm beating a dead horse, because I'm sort of on the same question Councilwoman Krajewski and Councilman Ramos were. 36 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Today, there is an enlargement in the problem of domestic violence and drug sales. And I wonder how many in those cases -- if you ban all guns, if you could do that -- I know the law doesn't permit it now, but if all guns could be eliminated, what do you think the impact on the amount of domestic violence and drug sales, how would that be impacted? It always seemed to me that one real danger in domestic violence cases is with the rise in the number of cases particularly. It means there's a growth in the amount of tension between individuals. And whenever there is an availability of a weapon, however obtained, legally or illegally, there's much greater chance of its use. It would be in the interest of reducing the problem of domestic violence and drug sales if we could ban all guns. Would you have any opinion that you feel you could express on that idea? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: The only thing I have is, less guns will be less violence. Less availability of guns. At 37 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY least that's my opinion. England has a very strict gun policy. Even the police don't carry guns. But when they find a person with a gun they're punished quite often. I think the other thing -- and I don't want to go into the wrong direction -- is that there are people that we've arrested three or four times carrying guns that are still on the streets. We have to take those things very, very seriously. If we have a person carrying a gun and is arrested with an illegal gun, then the punishment should fit the crime. That's just my opinion. I think based on the question you asked, less availability of a gun would be less violence with guns.

But even the presence of a legal gun can get you into a lot of trouble if you're the user of the gun. For example, many instances when there's parking difficulties, sometimes some drivers like to indicate they have weapons to scare off another driver from a prospective parking space. Now, I've known of many 38 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY instances in which the owner of the gun got into all kinds of legal trouble, facing a jail sentence, because the use of the weapon as a threat is illegal. So I am against guns for all kinds of reasons, including that they seem to harm the people who possess them very frequently. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Councilman, I agree with you. I think sometimes that guns get you into more trouble than it is to help you.

Thank you very much.

Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, you've been a police officer in the City of Philadelphia for approximately how many years? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: It will 40 years in October.

So you've been around. In your tenure, particularly in the 39 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY last years, has there ever been on a local level an emphasis or a request or a movement to impose this legislation, particularly one gun a month? I seem to recall -- I was a staff person here, but I wasn't a Councilperson -- that there was a request from some of the local elected officials on having one-gun-a-month legislation proposed? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I don't recall that, Councilman. It may have been, but I don't recall it.

You don't recall it? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No, sir.

My memory for some reason is jogged as we talk about this. I seem to recall an elected official or two in the City of Philadelphia asking for one-gun-a-month legislation. I think your legal counsel may want to -- COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay. I'm being told that the Mayor himself had asked for the same type of legislation during the 40 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY anniversary of Safe Streets, and that was May of last year.

This Mayor? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir.

No prior mayors? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: None that I know of. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I don't recall it.

I just recall an elected official -- we'll get that testimony. You don't recall? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No, sir.

Thank you, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner. Are there any other questions for this witness from Committee Members? (No response.)

Seeing none, thank you, Commissioner. Thank you very much for coming in to testify today. Thank you.

The next witness is 41 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Dexter Green, Chief Safety Officer, Philadelphia School District. And just to move this hearing a little forward, I would also like to call witnesses from Men United for a Better Philadelphia, Ray Jones, Balil Quyun, Malik Aziz and Mark Harrell. And also I'd like to have Matthew Schwartz, Pennsylvanians Against Handgun Violence. Please come to the witness table. We'd like to have Dexter Green go first, Mr. Schwartz second, and then the Men United for a Better Philadelphia.

Good morning and thank you for coming today to testify. Please state your name and any other identifying information you'd like to put on the record.

Good morning, Madam Chair. Dexter Green, Chief Safety Executive for the School District of Philadelphia. I'm representing, actually, Mr. Paul G. Vallas, who is the CEO for the School District. In reality, Mr. Vallas was expected to come here 42 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY to talk about one piece of legislation that's really not on the table today. But since I'm here, let me just say that in representing Mr. Vallas and myself, that the District is --

You can still talk about it and put it on the record. We have to have that Committee hearing a little later.

Okay. Actually, he was coming to testify on weapons around school property, weapons on or around school property. So that is just for the record. But in saying that -- I think I can speak for Mr. Vallas as well as myself in saying that he would support and the District supports any legislation that will make our children safer. Mr. Vallas'position is not just during school hours. And we have our issues during school hours that we need to deal with, but not just during school hours is he concerned about children's safety. He's concerned about their safety hours a day, 7 24 days a week. Anything that can protect our community at large, adults as well as 43 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY children, anything that can protect the community at large, I think we are in favor of. But very specifically anything that protects our children. If I heard the Commissioner correctly, over a three-year period there were 400-some-odd children that were injured as a result of handguns. I think all of us believe that that's just too many. It's outrageous. And so the district and Mr. Vallas and I feel the same way and we would just like to be here to support any legislation that you're putting forth.

Thank you. Actually, what we'll do, we'll have the testimony of all the witnesses before we start questions from Councilmembers.

Good morning, Councilwoman Miller, Councilman Clarke and Councilwoman Krajewski. My name is Balil Quyun. I'm Co-Chair of Men United for a Better Philadelphia. With me, also sitting next to me is Ray Jones, who is our other Co-Chair. 44 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Good morning, Councilman Cohen. How are you this morning? The level of violence involving handguns has reached an epidemic proportion in the City of Philadelphia. Unfortunately, because of the frequency in our City with each day as names and faces increase throughout the year, it's become easier to become immune, detached and desensitized to the horror of violence that guns produce in the City of Philadelphia. Let us not forget recent history as we gather today. Several weeks ago the City was traumatized by the death of a child in a school yard. Shortly after the tragedy a teenager was shot and killed near Germantown Avenue. The common weapon in these deaths and dozens of other deaths in the City of Philadelphia's children over the past several years has been handguns. Imagine the grief and sense of helplessness that a parent would feel at the death of a child. I know you'll be hearing from a lot of mothers who are, I know, in the 45 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY audience today, and some fathers who have lost children in the City of Philadelphia. As we speak here today, there's been 62 murders in the City of Philadelphia, and of those 6 murders since January 1st have been children 7 between the ages of 10 and 17. 8 The issue before us today is not one 9 of protecting urban youth, but every life. 10 This is not an issue of shooting in certain neighborhoods, but an issue of shooting in every neighborhood, as we saw earlier this week in the lower part of the Northeast by elderly citizens of our City taking lives. All of us must act today to support the legislation supported by Councilman Clarke and Councilwoman Miller. When Men United was formed, our goal was to create a movement harnessing the power of organizations from around the City to stop the senseless violence in the City of Philadelphia. We now need your support and influence to help protect the citizens of this City. Thank you. 46 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY

We're going to have Mr. Schwartz go next because he has to leave, it's my understanding.

Good morning, Councilwomen and Councilmen. My name is Matthew Schwartz. I represent Pennsylvanians Against Handgun Violence. I'm the Vice President of the organization. I'm a member of Physicians for Social Responsibility, Philadelphia Chapter. I work with Dr. Schwab, who is the Director of the trauma center at University of Pennsylvania. He's also the Director of the Firearm Injury Center at Penn. So I have some experience with these organizations. I also speak as a physical medicine and rehabilitation physician. I was trained at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital. As a resident, I participated in caring for patients who were injured from gun violence as part of the Regional Spinal Cord Injury Center. When I worked at Moss Rehabilitation and at Einstein, also trauma centers, I took care of patients as part of the Drucker Brain Injury Center. 47 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY And now at Penn I am working taking care of in-patients on the in-patient rehabilitation unit at Penn. So I have firsthand experience caring for those who have been injured by gun violence, seriously injured, and I can speak about the impairments that they endure with their thinking, with their speech, their swallowing, their activities of daily living, their mobility, even their bladder and bowel control and management. So people who have been injured by gun violence are catastrophically injured, and I've participated significantly in their management. So I have a firsthand experience with the devastation from gun violence. I also was the founder of the Physicians Adopt a School Program, which is one of the programs promulgated by Physicians for Social Responsibility. It's actually within this school system. And I can say that our children need every chance that they can get to make it through and succeed without stumbling with some of the road blocks that they face. And I believe that it's important 48 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY with these seven bills, it's a start to get out in front of the train and lay some new tracks so that we can change the course of the public health. Regarding the ordinances at hand, the seven that we're speaking of today introduced by Councilpersons Clarke and Reed Miller, if passed, these ordinance will keep guns out of the hands of those who should not have them, decrease gun trafficking and thereby criminal use of guns and homicide rates, hold persons accountable when failing to report lost or stolen firearms or illegally transferring firearms, improve school safety, and not least, facilitate law enforcement investigations and convictions. So as a representative of Pennsylvanians Against handgun Violence, I put forth two motions. First, because they will increase the safety and security of the residents of Philadelphia, the board of directors of PAHV hereby endorses the following ordinances under consideration by Philadelphia City Council and urges passage of 49 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY all, and further urges repeal of 18-PACS-6120A by the Pennsylvania General Assembly to allow for their enactment. They include 040117, 118, 137, 114, 113 and 132. Our second motion, because it will increase the safety and security of the residents of Philadelphia, the board of directors of PAHV hereby endorses Philadelphia City Council Ordinance 040136, acquisition or transfer of firearms, to regulate the acquiring or transferring of any firearm within the City of Philadelphia. The Board urges passage, and further urges repeal once again of 18-PACS-6120A by the Pennsylvania General Assembly to allow for enactment. I have a couple of recommendations with respect to the language of ordinances. First, regarding 040136, it should be noted that effective licensing requires gun safety training. Also regarding 040136, Section 23 1(4)(a) should further restrict licensing from any convicted felon, anyone with a restraining order imposed, and rather than a habitual 50 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY drunkard, a chronic substance abuser.

Regarding 040117, Section 1(1)(b), definition of straw purchaser. The language, I believe, should read, any person who conducts or attempts to conduct a gun purchase on behalf of another person who should not legally acquire or own a gun, end quote. Regarding all of the ordinances, and specifically with regard to the penalty for violation, I believe that a second offense should require a doubling of that initial penalty, and with a third offense, another doubling and perhaps consideration of a transfer of the case to federal jurisdiction. The costs of gun violence in Philadelphia are not simply human costs, but financial. There have been studies locally at the University of Pennsylvania suggesting the many millions of dollars that are spent taking care of gun violence victims at the expense of taxpayers. So City Council Members have an opportunity to work with our colleagues in Harrisburg to convince them to actually take on gun safety legislation. 51 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY I might add that hunters and other gun enthusiasts have been willing in the past to be partners in passing sensible gun safety legislation. I think that the membership of the NRA was actually polled, and 80 percent of them are not opposed, but actually are in favor of developing gun safety legislation. It is the extremists at the helm of the organizations that put the road blocks in the way of developing this gun safety legislation. There is sound scientific evidence that supports adoption of these ordinances. The special interests, namely the gun lobby, the gun manufacturers, the gun collectors and the gun dealers that oppose this sort of legislation stand to lose profits. This is their simple motive. The desire of the few to make a financial gain should not trump the safety of the many and the health of the potentially injured. There is no financial incentive, none whatsoever, among those who promote this legislation, just the desire to see unnecessary injuries and death reduced in our community. 52 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Schwartz. Councilman Cohen has a question for Dr. Schwartz. You have to leave, is that not correct?

Yes, it is true. I have to leave in minutes. 11

I'd like to ask 12 you because you apparently have City-wide 13 experience. Why is it that with the threat 14 that guns pose to everybody in Philadelphia 15 that we're so quiet in the City on this issue? Why do we permit the state to have adopted an absolutely insane interpretation saying that the state must provide the legal basis for gun control? Cities can't do it because conditions everywhere in the state are the same. We know that's just a flat out lie. There's no correspondence with reality at all. Why don't you feel that there ought to be a much greater outcry by citizenry in demanding that the City be given that power? 53 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Because we in Philadelphia know the cost we pay in gun violence every day of the week. Every minute of every day really. And the parents worry every minute of the day once the kids get to school. Schools are no longer safe havens. Why isn't there a stronger public outcry? You're in an especially excellent position to depict the various specific injuries that occur. Do you have an opinion on that?

Yes, absolutely. The answer is two-fold. First, it has to do with the media not covering the story. There is absolutely public outcry, very loud public outcry. It may not be huge numbers of people, but the outcry is there. What I have found in my experience when looking at the televised representation of the activities of protests, what ends up happening is that the media covers the skirmishes or they want to cover any fights breaking out or people breaking the law as part of the demonstration, rather than covering the message itself. So we need to 54 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY find out why the media, the Philadelphia Inquirer, the news stations are not willing to cover the story and to televise the accurate depictions and reports from the citizens who are crying out. They are screaming out. It's just that the media is shutting down the message. Now, let's ask about corporate media and who owns the media and their advertisers and their desire to keep the advertising dollars coming in and they don't want to upset them. That is the answer to your question. (Applause.)

I like that answer and note merely that the media has no 17 laws that prevent it from being the subject of demonstrations. If people are convinced that the media is playing a wrong role, I think the people have the same right to protest in front of the media headquarters as they have to protest in front of Council or elected officials. I think it would all be very healthy if they did that. If they do it, I will try, cane and all, to participate. I 55 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY think it's a disgrace.

I'd like to join you in that. I have found in my personal experience when participating in these protests, that the Philadelphia Police Department at times, perhaps -- for instance, down at the federal building, there have been instances where people who are peacefully demonstrating have been not handled appropriately. And they're not given an opportunity to exercise their free and democratic right to free speech in front of the federal buildings. If there is no 15 opportunity and no access to get your message out, then as far as the public is concerned, there is no message. (Applause.)

I think you're right. And I think you'll find in this Committee and Council generally a lot of support for that action.

I would also like to comment on something else that you said. You mentioned that there are two Pennsylvanias, 56 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY just as John Edwards, who was running for president, mentioned two Americas. There are two Pennsylvanias; there's Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, which are the inner cities, which are affected by gun violence far differently than the rest of the state. So therefore, I agree with you that there ought to be different legislation affecting the hot spots of gun violence. Because those who are at significant risk of suffering the injuries should be under different ordinances than those which govern the remainder of the population of the state.

Make sure you invite me and all the Members of this Committee and all the Councilmembers to the protests at the Inquirer and the Daily News because the story has to be told. Philadelphia children are dying and parents are worrying to death about the fact that their kids may be next. That applies in every area of Philadelphia. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. 57 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY

Thank you, Dr. Schwartz.

Thank you.

Ray Jones.

Good morning, Councilman Clarke Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller and Joan Krajewski and Councilman Cohen. I'm Ray Jones, one of the co-founders of Men United for a Better Philadelphia. I work on street corners and in schools throughout the City and we see the impact of violence in neighborhoods throughout the City. In my view the most deafening sound to communities in need is silence. Silence in the form of neglect, the silence in the lack of resources and silence in the form of vision and leadership. What is clear to me for the past two years is that we can and should do more to protect children and families in neighborhoods. Today you have a chance to raise your collective voice in support of the firearm legislation sponsored by Darrell Clarke and Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller. We 58 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY need your help. Every gun that we prevent from reaching our streets equals a life saved. And every gun that we prevent from reaching the street prevents the life-long grief of a mother. And every gun that we prevent from reaching the streets begins the healing process for neighborhoods demoralized by gun violence over the years. We join with you today in working to make our streets safer. We also ask that you join with us in creating the momentum necessary to convince Harrisburg that political expediency around firearms, although cheap in Harrisburg, the cost remains too high on the streets of Philadelphia. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any questions from Councilmembers, Committee Members of these witnesses? Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning. I wanted to ask Mr. 59 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Quyun and Mr. Jones a question. First, I'd like to thank you for the work you've been doing out in the neighborhoods. I ran up on some of you guys at 27th and Montgomery a week ago when you were out on the corner taking care of business, and I want to let you know that I truly appreciate it. Since you have hands-on knowledge, probably more so than any other groups or individuals to some degree, with the individuals out on these corners at all hours of the evenings, can you talk to me about the ages of some of these people out here who we believe -- and I think that you can confirm -- that are carrying weapons? Traditionally, I think people think of adults 25, 30 years old carrying weapons. Can you give me a sense of who is out on these street corners selling drugs or doing whatever and that are actually carrying weapons? Can you give me a sense of that and the Members of the Committee?

Many of the young people that we run up on on the corners are basically 60 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY young people. They can range anywhere from to 25 or so. Times have changed, and I think most of us who grew up at a time where if there was a community discussion so to speak between two folks you had more of a traditional fight. Today, because of handguns mostly that's no longer a part of the discussion. We're looking at probably young people between the ages of and 25. And 12 again, folks, primarily because of arguments 13 or discussions or heated discussions or 14 debate, before you know it, somebody is shot. 15 I would just like to comment quickly 16 on a question that Councilwoman Krajewski 17 raised and Councilman Cohen raised. I know in 18 reference to Commissioner Johnson you asked about legal guns. There was a report that was done -- actually there's a report in all places in Seventeen magazine of a tracking of 600 guns in the City of Seattle that were used over a 10-year period in acts of violence. They found out almost half of those guns at one time were legal guns, which means someone 61 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY bought that gun legally, had a permit or something, whatever. It ended up in the hands of someone for a robbery or house burglary or something like that. I think in the City of Philadelphia we're seeing a lot of guns that are purchased legally. You know, you and me, Councilman Cohen, we can go buy a gun today. We've got a gun in the house and we get a burglary, that is one of the items that's taken in that burglary and ends up on the streets of the City of Philadelphia.

May I ask the Chair, is there going to be anyone here from the City Solicitor's Office?

No, they're not on the witness list.

Because there have been changes in the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, and I wonder what their feeling would be about re-testing the case that was decided against Philadelphia in which they said laws have to be state wide on gun control. Because I think this is time, and 62 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY the time is long overdue for a reversal of that decision. Two of the strong supporters of that decision ruling state wide I know are no 6 longer on the bench. And I believe two who favored requiring state laws are still on the bench. One dissenter who favored Philadelphia being able to reach its own decision is still on the bench, so it would be two to one against us. But the two new ones, both of whom seem to be pretty good, they might reverse the whole trend in the Supreme Court. So I would like to raise, if the Committee would like to, if they could call the City Solicitor for an opinion as to how we renew the call for a new decision. It just makes no 18 sense to say that the laws should be the same in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and maybe I'd add Erie as the third urban center in Philadelphia, that the laws in those cities should be the same as the rural areas, like in Green County where there are hardly any people. Thank you, Madam Chair. Do you 63 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY think we could call the City Solicitor?

Councilman, we will call the City Solicitor.

Thank you.

Councilwoman Krajewski.

I think I'll let that question go for a while. Thank you.

I have a question. And I too want to thank Men United for a Better Philadelphia for all the work that I've seen you doing personally out in neighborhoods. Whenever something happens you're there, and it's a City-wide effort. I have a question that actually involves the School District. Everybody just talks about the violence that is going on here. It's been a major part of discussions in families, at parties, at family gatherings. Everyone's been talking about it, particularly with Faheem Childs' murder. That was a topic of discussion no matter where I went, and the young man from Gratz High School. I think it 64 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY just happened and it just brought it to everyone's attention. Many of us know it's been happening for years. In different ways, but it's been happening. I have a nephew who was shot in the head with a gun at age 14, who is now unable to see, walk, do anything. He's in a nursing home, and will probably remain there for the rest of his life. We all talk about the need for parenting. I know the School District -- I don't know whether you have it in all your schools -- I know in many of your schools you have conflict resolution, workshops or whatever it is. Do you think that's something that we need to have as a mandatory part of curriculum, some type of conflict resolution? If children aren't getting certain messages at home against the use of weapons -- because they're getting more and more, I guess, mean spirited. It's one thing to shoot somebody, but it's another thing to shoot them, shoot them again and then stand over them and shoot them and shoot them and shoot them to make 65 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY sure they're dead. And that seems to be some of the actions that's been going on.

Madam Chair, the District has identified some schools. And it's very interesting, and I can talk about the Men United here and also the Physicians for Social Responsibility that have been working -- the Physicians for Social Responsibility have been working with the District for the past three years, since I've been here anyway, in a role of doing bullying prevention, doing conflict resolutions at some of the schools that we've identified. It was a pilot program that the District hopes we can push forward when we talk about the persistently dangerous schools here in the City, moving those kinds of programs forward in those schools. With the Men United we just engage them in a contract to do some of the same kinds of things that you're talking about in some additional schools that we've identified. So the hope I think is that over time we can get these kinds of programs in most of our 66 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY schools. So we're working towards that.

I think it's important that we start it at an elementary school level because that's when the children are younger and, hopefully, if they hear the message from elementary through middle school through high school -- we just need to have some type of, I think, City-wide education or City-wide message that's going out constantly because that's the only way I think we're going to change things here.

And I think starting at the elementary is the absolute right way to go.

Thank you. Does any other Committee Member have questions for these witnesses? (No response.)

Seeing none, thank you very much. Thank you for spending your morning here in City Council.

Brady Campaign, Million Mom March, Ms. Barbara Montgomery, Jim Higgins, Chad Ramsey, please come to the 67 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY witness table. And could Diane Edbril from Cease-fire Pennsylvania also join the witness table?

Good morning. Please speak into the mike and state your name and any other identifying information. We'll hold all questions until all four witnesses have submitted their testimony.

Good morning, Madam Chair and Members of the Public Safety Committee of the City Council. My name is James C. Higgins. I am Vice President of the Million Mom March of Pennsylvania, the Eastern Pennsylvania Chapters, and also a member of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. I am privileged to speak here today in support of the legislation introduced by Councilman Clarke and Councilwoman Miller. The Million Mom March of Eastern Pennsylvania is a citizens lobby of over 4,000 members in five Philadelphia area counties. Our national organization has chapters in all 50 states and counts its membership in the 68 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. The Million Mom March is striving to put into effect what the overwhelming majority of Americans believe, that guns can be too easily purchased and transferred, and that all too often the wrong people are purchasing them and dealing in them. Numerous public opinion polls year after year support the contention that our laws need to be strengthened. The Million Mom March wholeheartedly endorses the Clarke/Miller bills as necessary and potentially life-saving legislation. Personally I have been an advocate for improvement in gun safety laws at least since 1963 upon the assassination of President Kennedy. For a number of years since then I stood on the side lines watching representatives of the National Rifle Association and their allies exert very effective and very deleterious pressure on members of Congress and state legislators to thwart the passage of even the most basic laws protecting the public from the proliferation 69 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY of guns in American society. However, in the last half dozen years I have ceased being a spectator and jumped into the fray to fight for critically needed changes in our laws at all levels of government; federal, state and local. I have been motivated in part by the tragedies that guns can cause in the lives of our people, including some of the members of the audience. Most important, I have been compelled by the fact that a small minority, the gun lobby, with a parochial interest can control public policy in this country at the expense of safety. In May 2000 I marched in Washington with 700,000 other men, women and children to protest Congress's lack of resolve in standing up to the gun lobby. I have met with representatives of members of both US Senate and House of Representatives to ask them to take action on needed legislation. I have lobbied our representatives in Harrisburg for similar improvements. I am well aware that the six bills 70 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY being introduced today need the help and support of a large number of representatives and senators in the Pennsylvania legislature. As one of the bills, straw and multiple gun purchases reduction recites, Council is precluded from enacting legislation on the subject of firearms and ammunition in light of legislation passed by the General Assembly and upheld by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. We need not inquire today into the wisdom of our legislature passing such a law, but what we can do and what Councilman Clarke and Councilwoman Miller are doing by introducing these bills, is state our concern that the General Assembly must help the citizens of Philadelphia by giving the force of law to these bills that will help protect those people and the surrounding communities. In so doing, our state legislators will do what a number of other states have done, put a halt to the purchase of large numbers of guns at one time, prohibit the use by criminals of a "straw man" to make purchases, stop purchases by individuals subject to 71 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY protection-from-abuse orders and halting sales to persons under and to convicted felons 4 and convicted narcotics dealers. 5 I urge my fellow citizens to get 6 behind these bills and work to persuade our 7 legislators throughout the state to allow City 8 Council to enact them.

I have no doubt 9 whatsoever about the ability of ordinary 10 citizens who represent no special economic 11 interest to bring positive pressure and effect 12 changes in our laws. Yes, the NRA seems to 13 get its way more often than advocates of gun 14 safety laws do, but I have seen firsthand that 15 citizens whose only interest is making our 16 society safer for everyone can influence 17 legislators successfully. 18 Just last week, we had a noteworthy example of that. Standing up to the gun lobby, the Senate of the United States voted overwhelmingly to block a bill that would have given gun makers and dealers immunity from lawsuits by victims of guns seeking damages in our federal courts for reckless or negligent marketing or distribution. On the same day, 72 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY senators voted to strengthen federal law in three other areas to require background checks of purchasers at gun shows and flea markets, to extend the assault weapons ban another 6 years and to require that child safety locks 7 be sold with all handguns. 8 The Senate acted for one simple 9 reason. Senators heard from hundreds of 10 thousands of ordinary citizens who requested them to act in the public interest and not yield to the selfish motives of those who seek to block common sense gun safety laws. We in the greater Philadelphia area can get these bills being introduced today approved by the General Assembly. First we have to become informed on the issue of gun regulation. We have to know the spurious arguments of the opposition, that we seek to confiscate guns from good citizens or make it impossible for them to buy firearms or that we oppose the use of guns for recreation or in defense of property or person. Then we must spread the word among the public by using the media, visiting our newspaper editors and most 73 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY important, organizing and lobbying our state representatives and senators. If we do these things, if we shine the glare of publicity on the problem of gun violence in our cities, on the weak laws that allow for the proliferation of guns on our streets, on the fact that the vast majority of Pennsylvanians want enactment of gun safety laws, then we will prevail. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Please state your name for the record.

Diane Edbril. I'm here on behalf of Cease-fire Pennsylvania, the leading organization of groups and individuals on a grass roots level within the Commonwealth dedicated to preventing gun violence. Thank you, Councilwoman Reed Miller, for your attention today and for your recognition of this very important issue and the need for it to be addressed. I'm one of the founding members of Cease-fire Pennsylvania, and I've been its 74 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY legislative director since 2002. I'm the author of Cease-fire PA's one-hand-gun-per-month bill that was introduced in the General Assembly last session and which we hope to have reintroduced again as well. I'm not going to take up much time talking about why we need a law to keep individuals from buying more than one handgun per month because everyone here understands why that is. What I'd like to do is share the insights that I've gained over my years of going to Harrisburg and talking to the lawmakers who need to be moved on this issue, and provide some insight perhaps in a resource to the Council to determine how best to accomplish that. As other speakers have noted, Pennsylvania is a state of two minds. There are urban communities in the southeastern and southwestern corners that are devastated daily by handgun violence, predominately among the youth of their communities. And there's a large population in between those two areas 75 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY that depend on guns every day for their livelihood, for recreation and for other parts of their self identity. And it's this dichotomy between experience that I think is largely to blame for the complete failure of any meaningful gun legislation in Harrisburg over the last several years. We need to start talking about gun regulation in a way that will not offend people who have different views of the proper role of guns in their lives. While we might not see the need to use a gun in self defense or for recreational purposes, we do need to recognize that there are many, many citizens of this Commonwealth who feel differently. I think when I look at one of the bills that's been proposed here in Council by Councilman Clarke, in particular the straw multiple gun purchase reduction bill, the only thing I would say to the Committee in this regard is that I think that when you are in the process of persuading our colleagues across the state, that Pennsylvania needs -- that Philadelphia and Pittsburgh -- but 76 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Philadelphia needs this kind of legislation, I think that it will be far more persuasive to talk about handguns. In reality, that is what the majority of the crimes we're seeking to prevent are being committed with. In reality I think that, at least by looks alone, a bill 8 such as that will not turn people off at first blush. I think there are some important distinctions between handguns and long guns in terms of their use, their lawful use and their unlawful use; their, obviously, size, concealability, leafality. There are a whole range of differences. I think that when we do go talk to our western colleagues and people from the northern part the state, that we need to assure them that we are not in fact seeking to take away their guns. What we're seeking to do is to keep handguns predominately out of the hands of criminals. I think on a technical note, I think there's another piece in here where it talks about collectors being exempt, and I think that there's a need to define what we mean by 77 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY a collector. Because if it's left undefined, then low and behold everyone in the City of Philadelphia who wants to buy a handgun will become a collector and evade certainly the intent of this legislation.

One thing I think is important is to know that when a one-hand-gun-per-month law was passed in Virginia, in response to a concern on the part of its business and political community that it was viewed as this handgun supermarket of the country, that in fact when that bill was passed into law, it changed patterns of illegal guns across the country, whereas many, many guns were showing up in crimes as having originated in Virginia. After passage of this legislation those numbers dropped dramatically. On the national level they went down by a full third, and in the northeastern states it went down by even more. I believe it was close to 50 percent. So I think it's important when we talk about limiting handgun purchases, that we do so in the context of showing that this is something that has been shown to work. 78 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Many, many critics of gun regulations say, well, you know, everyone wants to pass more laws, but you don't have any evidence that these laws work. I think in particular regard to one handgun per month, that argument is just contradicted by reality. We know what the problem is here in Philly, thousands and thousands of illegal handguns are confiscated every year from street corners, from individuals who have been arrested, from drug scenes. You know, they're not falling out of the sky. They're being bought in the first instance by a legal purchaser and then being handed off to somebody engaged in a criminal, unlawful transaction. So we know what the problem is. We know that we have a solution that will fix that problem. That's what I think we need to focus on in Harrisburg. I think it's also important to note that this is a measure, as Councilman Clarke observed earlier, that our current Governor has supported in the past and has pledged his support to. When we seek to 79 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY choose our battles, I think we have to choose them wisely. I think it behooves us all to do something that already has the support of our state's chief executive, that has the support of the numbers, that has the support of another state's experience and that certainly everyone in this room understands is a big piece of solving this problem. As the author of this legislation in Harrisburg I have lots more technical information that I'd be happy to share with you, but I think that, especially before this lunch hour, everyone in this room would fall promptly asleep if I went into them. So just let me say to the Committee that if you have any particular questions with regard to technicalities in this law that I believe, based on my experience over the last two years, will help it gain acceptance in Harrisburg I would be more than happy to share those with you at any point. Thank you so much for your attention to this vital matter.

Thank you 80 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY very much. Anyone else?

Good morning. My name is Barbara Montgomery. I'm the President of the Million Mom March Chapters for Philadelphia, Montgomery and Delaware Counties. We're united with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. If I could beg the indulgence of the Councilmembers, I'd like to just present this photograph. The photograph puts a very real face. Too many of these faces we do see, but that's my real face from my involvement in this. Two young ladies in the photograph, the one on the left is Alexandra Wake and the other young lady is my daughter, Remy Montgomery. A little over two years ago on January 15th, Alexandra went home from school, not unusual that she would go home from school after track and cross country. The unusual thing is she went home by herself that day. She was the most popular girl in her class. As I said, all the girls considered her a very close friend. She's a straight A student. 81 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY She wanted to be a judge upon graduating from college. And usually one of the girls would go home with her. Not that day. When Alexandra got home, her step father came in. He took a gun and shot Sandy, my friend, his wife, and killed her. He then shot and killed her grandparents. Alexandra was on the phone calling the police and he shot and killed Alexandra and then he shot and killed himself. And we lost five lives that day. He purchased his guns three months prior to that. There had been a series of violent incidents in the home. The police had been called many times. He did not buy the guns where he lived. He got them in Philadelphia. So this is one of the main reasons that I am here and why I do the work that I do as a volunteer for the Million Mom March. We have decided in our Philadelphia and the tri-county chapters to make education our priority. In that effort, I have gone into Sayre Middle School, Germantown High, Girard, Kensington, Olney, Bodine, Gratz, Central, University High, Edison, Frankford, 82 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY William Penn, Roxborough. I've spoken to hundreds of teenagers and middle school students at all of these high schools and going in and giving gun violence prevention workshops. In these workshops and with these kids who are from to years of age, the 9 first question that I ask them is, what do 10 they think of when they hear the word gun 11 violence. And the answers are quite telling 12 to what they must live with every day in the 13 streets and in their schools. And why should 14 someone own guns? And again, you know the 15 answers are quite telling. Number one is for 16 protection. The other answer is power. What 17 they feel is a powerlessness. 18 We also then do a questionnaire that gets very, very sensitive, but the kids have no problems answering these question. And when we ask them the two most common causes of death among teenagers in America, they all know the right answer. And the right answer is suicide and murder. And it's saddens me that they know the answers to these questions. 83 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Nine children and teenagers under the age of years of age are killed every 4 day in America. We lost three in Philadelphia 5 in one week just a month ago. 6 Some other answers that they give, 7 are guns in the home more likely to harm 8 someone the homeowner knows or doesn't know? 9 They know it harms someone that that family 10 member knows. It's not a stranger. Are guns 11 more likely to be found in homes with kids or 12 without kids? With kids. They know the 13 answer to that one too. Are these guns kept 14 loaded or unloaded? These guns are kept 15 loaded. They all have an intimate knowledge 16 with guns in their homes and on their streets. 17 Has anyone in your house ever had a gun? A 18 third to a half of the students say yes. Have 19 you ever thought of getting a gun? Again, a third will say yes. Have you ever seen a gun in your school, other than law enforcement officials? Over half of these students say yes.

Have you ever used a gun to threaten someone else -- and we do this confidentially so the children don't see each other's answers 84 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY -- and the hands go up. At least a third have used a gun to threaten someone else. At least a third have been threatened by guns in their schools or on their streets. Have they seen another person threatened by a gun. Almost half will raise their hand and say yes. When the Councilwoman was talking about conflict resolution, that is part of the gun violence prevention workshop that we do because we understand that conflict resolution, we have to go back to what the roots of the problem are. The bullying program that PSR does, the Physicians for Social Responsibility, is an excellent program. And these kids all know that it starts with bullying and it starts on the playground in kindergarten. We had one young man last week at University High say actually it started at home because he felt that his parents didn't know how to be parents and that they bullied him. And that's what he learned and so he went out and bullied other people. So we put our list on the board of what we feel is 85 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY important for conflict resolution; respect, tolerance, patience, listening, language, and we talk about those things. This affects me very deeply. Pardon me for just a moment. We try to give these children, these kids, these young adults, the realization that they have a choice in their actions, but many times they don't see the choices. They only see the hopelessness and the despair. And I will just leave you with the last thing. One of the young ladies said to me -- just prior to that I had gone in and spoken to Mothers Opposed to Murder, which is an amazing group of women who are working with other families. All these women have lost children to homicide in Philadelphia. And right after that I was speaking to some kids at City Year. And the young lady said at the end -- she's about 17 years old and a victim of gun violence herself and said, we are looking to the adults for the answer, but they are not there. And I am very, very thankful that you are here today and that you are 86 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY present and are willing to do something about this to save our children. Thank you.

Thank you. Very good.

Good morning. Chad Ramsey. I'm the East Regional Director of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, united with the Million Mom March. Thank you so much for allowing us the opportunity to come here today. I won't take up much of your time at all since most of the folks have covered the ground. But I just wanted to say that looking over this package of legislation, I was impressed and noticed that there's a common thread that's running through these bills, and that is stemming the tide of guns to criminals. Particularly in 040117, the straw purchase reduction act, and the one-gun-a-month bill, and 040113, the tracing of crime guns for those that are 21 and under. I hear all too often the comment that there's all these guns out on the streets 87 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY and there's nothing we can do about them. That statement is patently wrong. 1.2 percent of gun dealers in this country provide 57 percent of the guns used in crime. Let me just say that again. 1.2 percent of gun dealers in this country provide 57 percent of the guns used in crime. That is staggering. If we can simply trace back these guns that are used in crime, we can find out who is providing them to these youngsters who get them in their hands and use them for crime. We can stop the tide of crime guns that get onto our street. As my colleague Diane mentioned earlier, the one-hand-gun-per-month bill has worked very effectively in the states where it has been implemented. The first such bill was in South Carolina in 1975, and since then three other states have also passed similar laws. Virginia in '93, Maryland in '96, and in 1998 California, following the lead of their largest city, Los Angeles, which had just passed a similar bill, passed a one-gun-per-month bill. These bills have 88 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY worked. They have stemmed the tide of crime guns that get on the street. As Diane mentioned, the number of Virginia guns that were used in crime dropped dramatically. In the northeast, the percentage of Virginia guns traced to crime fell from 54 percent to percent. The 9 number fell by 61 percent in New York City 10 where they were frequently found in the 11 commission of crimes. These are staggering 12 numbers. These are numbers that you cannot 13 ignore. This is clearly an effective piece of 14 legislation, and I think the Council is doing 15 a tremendous service in putting this forward. 16 I wanted to assure you that the Brady Campaign and the Million Mom March will be there working with you every step to encourage the State Legislature to provide authority for the City of Philadelphia to enact this important legislation. Thanks.

Thank you. Councilman Cohen.

It's very 89 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY heartening to hear the strength of feeling of these various groups against gun violence. And nobody really wants to get engaged in an all-out battle against the NRA. So we go through the motion of explaining how most NRA members are probably good, honest people. I happen to be one person that disagrees with that notion. I think by this time the NRA members who fight for their right as they see it to bear arms -- and that's the most important thing in the world to them. It's more important than Philadelphia kids living or dying, more important than anything else to them. They react and they know all the facts as we do. Though some of the statistics made by the gentleman that just testified about the small number of gun dealers who seem to be involved in the guns that turn up in weapon land, I don't know what cause and effect that might be, but that kind of fact should be known. I never heard that fact explained before. But I think mostly people are very -- who tend to be outside the City -- very selfish and greedy. I don't know why alleged 90 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY rights they have should be affected in any way by what happens in Philadelphia. They're convinced we're all sinners anyway. And so if maybe our kids get killed first, maybe they're just helped from being involved as criminal adults later on. I can't begin to think of the reasoning that justifies their right to bear arms at the expenditure -- and I don't know who they're bearing arms against. They never say that. Because in their area there's relatively little crime compared to that which exists in Philadelphia. So I think this is a power struggle. One of the panel members mentioned that we have the support of the Governor. Well, maybe we do, maybe we don't. I would certainly say, don't equate the Governor's statement of support with the expression of support from this particular Governor because that's not the history. He can support four or five different sides of a question simultaneously. But I think what's true is we've got a hard-boiled campaign ahead of us and this is 91 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY an issue in which sides have been pretty much picked, and we're not going to win by convincing NRA members that they ought to think of Philadelphia kids first or Pittsburgh kids or Erie kids first. I think we've got to do it by political muscle. That's what I see in the City's taking the leadership, finding a legal issue by which we can challenge the decision made back in 1996 that this had to be decided by state law rather than by local law. I think the City has to take a leadership. We hope Mayor Street will play a strong role in it and authorize the Law Department to move ahead. And then I think you have the issue that will enable you to mobilize the people in Philadelphia. I think we've got to win this by brute political force. It would be good if we could tie it in somehow to the election in November. People seem to feel very strongly about that. And I think that most people who are going to reject the present administration in Washington may be pretty good supporters of this kind of a campaign. So I think we ought 92 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY to think in terms of putting an end to this nonsense this year and do it through the electoral process by convincing people that this is not an issue that's going to be won if we keep on discussing it forever. But it's got to be put to a political test. We've got to find a way to get it voted on, and we've got to show that the people overwhelmingly are opposed to it. And I think we can do that in Philadelphia. This would be a great issue to mobilize. So I'm urging you to put pressure on the City. I intend to do so from City Council. I hope other Members of Council will also do so to convince the City to find a way. I think legally a good lawyer and one interested in the subject could easily find a way to say we're testing.

We're not asking for the same legal opinion as seven years ago, but we're raising new issues. Because I don't think the right to bear arms by a rural person has anything to do with the safety of our kids and the safety of our people here in Philadelphia. So I think there's easy room to 93 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY find the way to raise this issue legally. If the City does it, they should be assured that they're not going to be left out in limbo land, but that the people are going to support it. I for one will pledge my every bit of assistance, and I'm sure there are many people in Council, particularly Councilwoman Miller and Councilman Clarke, who have been very strong in the fight against gun violence. I think we can get a strong resounding no vote as to the issue as to whether Philadelphia has the power or not. I think we would reverse the old decision that said Philadelphia cannot do it. I think you can get a yes vote, that municipalities have to have this right to legislate on their own needs. So I urge you to help us find a way to raise the issue sharply. Let's forget about being nice to members of NRA. I've never known a member of NRA who I would describe as being a nice person because they're all so filled up with the right to bear arms, and I don't know who they're go to 94 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY bear arms against. I didn't know that we were living in a society in the United States where we had to protect our life every minute of the day by bearing arms. I think compared to most of the world we're a pretty peaceful nation and pretty peaceful people. So I believe the reason they're doing it is that they don't care about Philadelphians. They think, as I mentioned before, that we're a sinful place, and if our kids die, maybe it doesn't matter. That's a very uncivilized way to think and a wrong way. The way to convince them is for us to win an election and show people that when the issue comes down to yes, no, people are going to vote for Philadelphia's right to take the steps we need to provide the right kind of background for our kids to grow up in. Thank you very much.

Councilman, we really like the way you think and would like to invite you to Pittsburgh on April 17th where the NRA is holding their national convention. A lot of the folks in this room will be there speaking not too kindly probably to the NRA. 95 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY So we'd like you to come join us.

We may do that. Because I just think it's urgent that the message get out. Don't worry about offending the NRA. If they're decent, they'll support us come the election, because they have to recognize that we face situations totally different than them. And I will agree that they have the right to bear arms if only they tell me what they're bearing the arms against and against whom they're bearing them. Seems to me that they're bearing the arms against Philadelphia kids, and that's the wrong group to be against.

That's what I wanted to say. Philadelphians have a right to be safe. The NRA wants to bear arms. We have a right to be safe.

But I think we've got to kind of be militant about it and not have to worry about being so nice to the NRA. I think most of the people there are either greedy or evil. I don't know how you justify somebody saying to me it's more important to 96 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY be able to carry a weapon to protect myself -- I don't know against whom they're protecting themselves -- but they say that it's more important for them to protect themselves than the safety of children. I can't buy that at all.

Also, I just want to say -- this is actually for every group -- that we may be calling on you for your help to help us lobby, if it's needed. We've been talking to state officials, state elected officials. Everyone that we've talked to so far agrees with us, but we may need your help, particularly if you've stretched out across the state, so we know that we can garnish a lot of support from the Philadelphia area, but particularly if you're stretched out across the state.

I think this is really a number one issue and we ought to raise it to that level of priority.

So we'll be calling you. It won't just end today.

One statistic that 97 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY wasn't offered earlier. I think Councilman Cohen asked the question as to -- I don't have the exact words, but the question was in the area of where a person is killed by a gun, what do we know about the relationship between the perpetrator and the victim. Is there a bloodline or a friendship or some acquaintanceship relation there? Here is a statistic that bears on that question. For guns kept in the home, a 1999 study published in the Journal of Trauma, which is a public health publication, the study reported that a gun in the home is 15 times more likely to kill a family member, a 16 friend or a visitor than it is to kill a 17 burglar or intruder. 18

That was the kind 19 of statistic I was looking for earlier. 20 Because I regard guns as more dangerous to 21 those who use them than it is to anybody else. 22 I think it would cut down heavily on domestic violence and on the drug trade if we eliminated all guns in the City of Philadelphia. 98 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY

The argument by the NRA and others is that we need these guns and we need this absolute freedom to buy when and where we want because we need them for self defense, particularly of our home. And this study in the Journal of Trauma in 1999 says that you're more times likely to be killed 9 by a gun in the home if you're a family 10 member, a friend or a visitor than you are if 11 you're an intruder or a burglar. 12

I'd like to give 13 this to the panel. This is a resource packet 14 that we do give to all the kids in the 15 schools. It has these statistics that Jim is 16 mentioning and many, many more that would be 17 helpful to you in your campaign. And as I 18 say, we will definitely be there to help you 19 in Harrisburg. 20

Thank you. 21 We may be calling you later to get 22 information regarding some of the statistics on some of the facts and the data that you stated this morning in various testimonies regarding legislation in other states. 99 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm sorry. Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, Madam Chair. First I'd like to thank you for your expert testimony. We obviously, as the Chair has indicated, need your support, particularly from a technical perspective. You have been involved in these issues. I just wanted to get some clarity on a couple of issues that you raised in your testimony. You said 1.2 percent of the gun dealers essentially provide 57 percent of the weapons that were used in the commission of crimes. Is that done in some sort of geographical area that reflects directly to a certain economic or social status? Is there some correlation?

I'm not sure how it correlates because that figure comes directly from the ATF. And they don't break it down like that. But we do have some folks working on breaking it down just like that. We have identified the most serious offenders, the 100 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY worst dealers that are out there, including some that are in Pennsylvania. We do know where the bad guys are.

It would be helpful if you could provide us with that information. The other thing is, with respect to potential amendments to the bill, based on the testimony that we hear today, there is a likelihood that there may be several amendments. Subsequently we will have some discussion with the state and the legislators that hopefully will lead the charge on the state level, and we're sure that there has to be some adjustments to the bill to ultimately get something that people can come to some conclusion and get a consensus on. So we appreciate your recommendations. One thing of interest that struck me, with respect to California, you indicated that there was a passage of legislation in Los Angeles and that then led to passage on the state level?

That's right. Los 101 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Angeles passed the bill early in '98, and it was really a surprising move that the State Legislature took it up shortly after it was passed in Los Angeles. So clearly that's an indication of a big city leading the way for their state.

I just want to make sure because it sounds similar to what we're attempting to do. The legislation that was passed in Los Angeles, did it require state authorization or did Los Angeles just say, look, we're doing what we have to do here, we're passing a bill?

Right. California is not a state where the State Legislature preempts the city.

So they don't have preemption like we do. Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Thank you for your testimony.

I'd like to call to the table Tommy Blackwell. 102 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Representatives from Mothers United through Tragedy, please come to the table. Representatives from the group, Mothers in Charge, please come to the table. Representatives from the group, Families Are Victims Too.

Don't forget to pull the mike close to you. State your name and any other identifying information. I think the first one you called was Tommy Blackwell. You can start.

Thank you for allowing me to be here. My name is Thomas W. Blackwell, IV. I'm the President of Belmont Improvement Association. First of all, let me commend this Council for having the vision and the courage to introduce these two bills, especially Councilman Clarke and Councilwoman Miller, along with Juan Ramos, who I worked very hard to elect to this Body, and of course, Councilman David Cohen, who is here since my father was here. I come to speak in support of Bill Nos. 040117 and 040113. 103 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY As a youngster, I came from a community where there's a lot of gun violence. As a youngster, I wasn't even allowed to play with toy guns. My father taught me that if you teach a child to play with toy guns, when he grows up he's going to want a real gun. So I've seen a lot of misery caused by guns. Back in 1973 when my father was serving in the State House, he brought a committee to Philadelphia to hold hearings on gang violence and gun violence. They go hand and hand. Of course I support anything, any situation that will eradicate guns in our communities. The word gun, every time I hear any word associated with gun, it has a negative connotation to me. Some people say it's good for sport, it's good for protection, but, you know, all that sounds good, but to me it represents nothing but violence. To protect yourself, that means there's violence somewhere around if you need a gun to do that. As I stated, I come from a community where there's a lot of gun violence. 104 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Just recently with this young child getting killed through no fault of his own, just walking to school, an innocent child, had to go through a situation where he's gunned down just because he happens to be in that situation. I know some of my friends are either in jail -- guys that I grew up with -- or in a grave. I never belonged to a gang in my life, and I had to walk through three of them to get to my job as a youngster, because I was always more afraid of my father than I was of the gangs because of the way my father taught me. Now, as a community, we have to realize that guns are nothing but a problem. Police officers are the only ones that I always knew that were supposed to have guns. To me, a gun represents evil. I've never held a real gun in my life, in my hand. As a youngster, I would use hangers and things like that to make pretend I had a gun because my father wouldn't buy me one. And if he saw me with one, I was in trouble. Now I realize why he taught me that way, 105 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY because of all the violence that's in our community. So while I support these bills, I also want to encourage everyone to show their support, even on the state level, of why it is very important not to have guns at all. Eradicate them as much as possible as quickly as we can because of what guns, especially in the wrong hands, represent. Again, thank you very much.

Thank you. Shirley Boggs.

Good afternoon, Councilman Clarke, Councilwoman Donna Miller, Councilman Ramos, Councilman Cohen. How are you? I stand before you today as Shirley Boggs, B-O-G-G-S, Mothers United Through Tragedy, founder and CEO. I'm also a board member of Philadelphia Anti-Drug/Anti-Violence Network. I'm also a parent of a murdered child. I think that this bill that you two have introduced today, I can only commend you for it and I support you 150 percent. My 106 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY organization stands behind you also. We're here to support. It's important that we get this bill passed. Too many of our children are losing their lives. We as parents, we expect for our children to bury us, not we bury our children the way that it's going. You know, I have nine grandchildren, and two of my grandchildren have been affected due to violence. My son that passed, Quintell (ph), he left a son. His son has lost his father. My granddaughter, her father was recently murdered with a gun. My son Quintell was shot four times with a 9-millimeter; once in the back, and as he laid straddled on this motorcycle, this person stood over top of him and shot him three more times. That's unacceptable. That's an overkill. Not only did that take place, my son is a first born of a set of identical twins. He's the first born. His twin brother was shot at 2:30 in the morning of August 13th, 1997. And this young man, my first born twin son, was killed a little after 12 o'clock the same day. That's almost losing 107 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY two children in one day. That's unacceptable. So anything to remove the guns from our community, from our City, I'm all for it. Anything that I can do, I'm here. I'm just a phone call away at any given time. Because it's important. These parents sitting here, we've all lost our children. We cannot speak enough about the violence that is plaguing our streets. We turn the news on and everything you hear is about Iraq. Well, we got a war right here in Philadelphia. In the City of Philadelphia there's a war going on. And the war is against our young folk, may it be white, black, red, green, yellow, orange. Murder has no color. Murder has no color. There were 348 murders last year. That's 348 families that were affected due to violence in the City of Philadelphia. That's too much. From the age of zero -- I got the statistics on my desk -- but from the age of zero to 18 -- I think it was like a hundred and something -- and from zero age now -- can you believe this -- there were, like, five 108 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY children or six children the age of zero. So that means they didn't make it to a month old. Five. And I think three of those were Afro-American. That's unacceptable, people. We have to make sure that we get this bill 7 passed by any means necessary. If it means us taking to the streets, going to Washington, going to Harrisburg, then we have to do just that. We cannot allow the state to dictate what happens here in Philadelphia. And the state is not here losing their loved ones. We cannot allow that. How many more of our children must die before it's time for us to unify on this thing, to come together and say, we're tired and we're not going to allow state to dictate what's going on here in Philadelphia? We just can't do that. Thank you.

Thank you. I've kind of lost track of who's next. How many people do we have from Mothers in Charge?

Three.

So all three 109 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY of you are going to testify, correct?

Yes. Good morning, Members of Council. My name is Dorothy Johnson-Speight. I'm the founder and Executive Director of Mothers in Charge. I'm also Kaliq's (ph) mom. He was years old. 8 He was killed with a handgun over a parking 9 space. This is the criminal record of the 10 person that killed him. He could not have 11 bought a handgun, but he acquired one. Thank 12 you for the invitation to speak this morning 13 on behalf of mothers here and the ones that 14 could not be here this morning. 15 Mothers in Charge is the courageous 16 group of women fighting to make a positive 17 difference in the City of Philadelphia. Many 18 of the members have experienced the horror of 19 having a son, daughter or loved one tragically 20 taken as a result of gun violence. But 21 because of the death and the life of our loved 22 ones, each mother and member is committed to 23 saving lives and preventing other mothers from 24 having to experience this terrible tragedy. This is tremendously difficult and 110 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY very emotional task as many mothers are still experiencing and working through our own grief, yet the pain and the sorrow is the basis of our unrelenting desire to do whatever it will take to prevent other senseless lives from being taken by gun violence in our communities. We are working to make a difference. Mothers in Charge realizes that positive change cannot happen within our communities without addressing the issue of gun violence. We thank the Committee on Public Safety, Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller and Councilman Darrell Clarke. There are far too many guns on the streets of Philadelphia, far too many guns in the hands of young people, criminals and people who may otherwise settle a dispute without resorting to violence. But because guns are so easy to get, we see this out of control level of violence in our communities. Many young people in the City can get their hands on an illegal gun with no problem, and that's because our communities are flooded with them and are claiming the lives of many 111 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY in our communities at an alarming rate, often times young, innocent children. Straw and multiple gun purchase reduction to limit purchase of firearms. Illegal handgun traffickers are helped by people known as straw purchasers, individuals who legally purchase handguns, either one or many at a time, then unlawfully transfer them to gun runners or criminals who would not have been able to pass a background check to buy the handguns in the first place, or simply wanting to avoid detection. These straw purchases are repeated over and over again in our community, creating an ample supply of guns for the criminals who couldn't otherwise obtain them. A buy in bulk practice may be fine for paper towels, but not for deadly weapons. Illegal guns have claimed the lives of so many of our children. You know it's not the natural order of things for a parent to have to bury their child, yet more and more parents today are experiencing this God awful task. It is the worst thing in the world to 112 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY have to experience. Mothers in Charge doesn't want other mothers and fathers to receive the phone call we got, telling us that our son and daughter had been shot to death. With the level of violence due to illegal guns on our streets, no Philadelphians is safe. No one is exempt. Each of us must work to stop the violence. Each one of us must work to save lives and improve the quality of life for all Philadelphians. We support this legislation. And again, thanks to City Council for the opportunity to speak this morning. Thank you.

Thank you.

My name is Cherie Ryan. I am a mother of a murdered son and a member of Mothers in Charge, a group of mothers who have lost their children violently. We have decided through our pain and grief to speak out against the violent acts that are happening in our streets to our future, our children. We hear are loved ones' voices crying from the grave saying, do not let our 113 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY deaths be in vain. They are saying, do something to help stop these senseless killings. So that is why I am here today to support Councilmembers Miller and Clarke on the bills that were presented. My son Terrence and his best friend Darren were murdered September 2, 1990 at 40th and Walnut Street. Five men surrounded Darren's mom's car with tech-9s, killing my son and his best friend. Something has got to be done. I feel that the firearms tracing Section 10-832 is an excellent way to help curb the amount of illegal guns on our streets that are possessed by anyone under the age of 21. The two other ordinances are equally important. I hope and pray that the Committee on Public Safety takes a stand and says, yes, we want to help save the lives of our children. You can do that too by supporting bills that have the welfare of our children at heart, and make stricter gun laws. Before I close I must speak on the 114 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY devastation that follows the death of a child on the other children, their siblings that they left behind. The siblings sometimes can't sleep. Their grades fail. They separate themselves from their peers. It's a devastating situation. And then there's the parents. They fear they're overly protective of their living children. It's a devastating situation. They can't cope with everyday things. Sometimes it's difficult to even shop. We speak at schools. It's difficult to look at those children because those children remind us of our children. Every time a child is murdered in the City of Philadelphia, the coffins of our children are opened again. We hope and pray that none of the Councilmembers or anyone else in this room 20 will have to join the club that we belong to, a club that we did not ask to join. Thank you very much. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I want to start off giving honor to God and thank the honorable and distinguished Council 115 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY representatives for allowing us to voice ourselves this morning. This is a picture of my son. That's Kiyeed (ph). I understand from statistics that 90 percent of the children that are slain, the death is due to gun fire. As Balil Quyun spoke from Men United for a Better Philadelphia, this is an epidemic, and there's no pictures or words that can describe the grief or the pain that we feel when we lose our children. Everyone's worried. God-fearing people, distinguished people of this City, representatives, all the citizens of Philadelphia that I speak to are worried for their children and for themselves. No one seems to find a safe space any place. I speak to young people and they feel a sense of despair and hopelessness. They don't think that their life span is going to be that past 21. They feel that everyone is being murdered from guns. Ray Jones, his message was very profound. He said they are silent neglects in our communities. They are. We know that the 116 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY youth from ages 17-24 account for 90 percent of the deaths here in the City. However, the gun law for 040113 with tracing of the guns that are in our minors' hands must be upheld, because just as well as they are the ones that are dying, they're the ones that are perpetuating these deaths and having us hostage in our own homes, our schools and our communities. Also the bill that you have, 040114. I work in one of the most dangerous schools in Philadelphia, Gillespie High School, and I see every day how the staff, the teachers, the adult leaders of that school are again held hostage according to the fear that they have of children. Weapons are in our schools as well.

The other bill that you have, 040132, about the guns being in the hands of someone that is abusive. I can speak very profoundly about. The young man who took my son's life, he was a minor. So again, the bill 040114, because not tracing these gun -- again, minors have guns in their hands. 117 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Again, because he had abusive tendencies in his past life, how did he get a gun? Guns are being in the hands of the most dangerous persons in our community now. Many of us knew Kiyeed. Kiyeed was a leader. Kiyeed was kind. He was considerate, very giving and compassionate, but he died a very violent death due to guns. That hurts to know that this young man who gave so much of himself died so tragically, scarred, facial -- oh, God, I'm sorry. The way that I saw my son the day I had to go to the hospital, I almost didn't recognize him. Guns are very, very harmful. Dr. Schwartz talked about the health of our children that are victims of guns. When I saw Kiyeed the day that he had died, I wasn't sure he was dead because he wasn't covered up. But I also knew if he lived he would have been a vegetable the moment I looked at him. So we're talking about medical bills. We're talking about the stress on caregivers. We're talking about the physical 118 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY and emotional scars one has to encounter taking the care of the victims of firearms. Again, as Barbara Montgomery from Million Mom March said, that they go around, they ask a lot of questions to the young people, and so does Mothers in Charge. One of the questions that Mothers in Charge asks the young people is, what is it that we can do as a society of people from our communities to help stop the violence? And 90 percent of the answers are get the guns out of our communities. So the children know that the guns are the harmful killers. They know that themselves. So again, I applaud Donna Reed Miller and Mr. Clarke for your efforts here and all the other Councilpersons. And I as a citizen of Philadelphia here, along with Mothers in Charge and Shirley and all the other different legislators, pledge our support behind you to do whatever we can to march against, to educate on gun violence. Thank you.

Thank you. 119 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Do we have anyone else to testify? Theresa, are you testifying?

Yes. Good morning. My name is Theresa Pinkett. I'm a liaison for Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller and I'm also a member of Families Are Victims Too. I'm here this morning because I too had a son that was violently murdered. I think this bill is long overdue. I mean, not only have guns killed our children, it's terrorizing our society, because I'm looking at the families that are left behind. I know it was a good two years before I could take control of my life. I was not able to eat. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't balance my checkbook. I was just a total wreck. Society has to look at this gun bill and they have to look at the big picture. What I'm trying to say is our children weren't the only lives that were destroyed. Our lives were. Society can't function with scores of broken families. I know I couldn't function. I know these women at this table, I know they felt the same thing 120 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY I did. I know burying my son was the hardest thing that I'll ever do in my life. My son was murdered July 1st of 2000. To this day, I have good days, but every time I look at the television, it's relived all over again. Somewhere it has to stop, and I think this gun law is a start. But we also need to start doing more things with our children while they're young. We need to teach our children the fear of God. We need to teach them to learn how to love each other, to have self respect for themselves. We need to teach them that they're worth something so that they don't go up when they're 15, pull up a gun and take somebody's life. There's so many things to be done, but the first step I'm looking at is this gun law. The second step, which is the most important, when those children are babies, it has to happen in homes. It has to happen in schools, churches, everywhere. We have to let them know that they are important. Because we as a society, we cannot go on at the pace that 121 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY we are now. I know that I'm not the only nervous wreck sitting here. It's plenty of us. What's going to happen when half of the mothers in society have experienced the stuff that me and these women up here have? What is going to happen then? I couldn't work. I couldn't go to school. I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't do anything. You know what? Then nothing else in the world mattered to me. Nothing else was important. It took me years to get myself together. It was with the help of God. And I think we all need to start putting God first in our lives. Thank you.

Thank you. This is very emotional, very emotional testimony and I just want to say I feel you and I know that we all feel you. So I want to thank you for coming in. Does any Councilmember have any questions for any of these witnesses? Councilman Ramos.

Thank you, Madam 122 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Chairwoman. I also feel your pain. I haven't gone through it. I hope I don't ever have to go through that pain, but I see the pain in you and I see the tears. I didn't know any of your sons, with the exception of Kiyeed. Kiyeed was my friend. And I know his anniversary of his death is coming up next month. And I joined the mother and father at the hospital shortly after he was taken there. It was one of the most hardest things that I have ever witnessed. I've seen people shot in the street, but because of my personal relationship with this fine young man -- I had just been to his school the year before in 2002 where he was announced he was going to Howard University and I was so proud of him. I know all of you had a lot of dreams for your children and they had their own dreams and they were cut down by the violence that we have in our street. I just want to commend you for all the work that you're doing, for you to continue to stick together, for us to continue to stick together 123 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY so we can put an end to the violence in our street. I read in a newspaper report where they want to criticize the work of my two leaders on this issue that have presented bills before this City Council, that we should basically mind our own business because this is not our business, but it's the state's business. When our children are being killed in Philadelphia, it's our business. We need to do what we have to do in this City Council and we need to call upon our elected officials up in the State House to act and act expeditiously in a hurry so that they can help us with this problem that doesn't seem to go away. Again, I commend you all for your bravery.

Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, Madam Chair. First, I want to thank you all for coming down to testify and I want to give you 124 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY my heartfelt sympathies to all of you for the loss that you suffered, and I understand that it will continue every day remaining of your life. But hearing your testimony today makes me want to do this just a little bit more. I understand that there will be certain impediments, as my friend and colleague Councilman Ramos indicated, on a state level. But every time we reach that brick wall, we can just lean on your testimony here today and it will give us a way climbing over that brick wall. So we hear you. We're with you. One way or another we're going to effect this issue. I don't know how this will ultimately end up, but at some point something is going to change because we can no longer allow the proliferation of weapons in these communities, our communities, my community, and not do something about it. So, ladies, again, my sympathies to you. We'll do everything we can to get some relief out in our neighborhoods. Thank you. 125 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY

We again thank you all for coming in and thank you all for caring. Certainly we feel your pain. Two of the mothers that are involved in this group -- well, this group and the other group -- are staff members of mine. So I've had two staff people lose sons to violence. And there are many parents that are in pain that haven't reached a point yet to be able to come to City Council and testify. So I want to commend you on your courage and your bravery. And as we said a little earlier, that we'll calling on you too for your help. You know you have the support of mostly all Councilmembers in Philadelphia City Council, and we're going to be working hard. This may be a long battle or it may be a short battle, but whatever it is we're going to stick it in there and work together and see what we can accomplish as a group. Thank you for coming.

Is Kimberly Mackey here? (No response.)

At this time I'd like to 126 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY call Gregory Jaskolka, Leslie Willis-Lowry, Wayne Jacobs, Steven Blackburn, Shelly Yanoff.

If I could. I have to leave. I just wanted to make one statement. Less than a minute, and my colleagues have agreed.

Okay. We're going to go on and start with the testimony and we'll start first with Shelly Yanoff.

Thank you. I just want to thank you, Councilwoman Miller and Councilman Clarke and Councilman Ramos, for being here, for initiating these bills. There's nothing I can say except that these mothers and the Men United must lead all of us, that all of us must follow and do everything we can to get the guns out of the community and stop the murdering of our children. And I want to say it's not just criminals that get the guns. It's the proliferation of guns in the community that if you get angry, people reach out and they become criminals. So on behalf of Philadelphia 127 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Citizens for Children and Youth -- I forgot to identify myself. Shelly Yanoff. I urge you to lead us. And this is not perfect. We need to do more than these bills do to get the guns out of the community, but the perfect can't be the enemy of the good. These are good. We've got to get them done. Thank you for your efforts, and we want to join you and follow you.

Thank you. Where do we start? Gregory Jaskolka.

Jaskolka. Good afternoon. My name is Gregory Jaskolka, and I come before you today in support of the proposed amendments to the Chapter 10-800 of the Philadelphia entitled, Safety. I won't go through the list because it's already been gone through a couple times, so we all know which bills we're speaking about. As some of you may already know, I'm the father of Joseph Jaskolka, now nearly 17 years old, and the victim of random gun violence at the age of 11 in the early moments 128 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY of New Year's Day 1999 in South Philadelphia. Although Joseph survived his being shot in the head by someone firing a gun into the air in celebration of the new year, he will never be the same. He was robbed of the use of his right arm and leg and needs a wheelchair to get around. He also has a constant reminder of his injury, a bullet that remains lodged in his skull that can't be surgically removed without the risk of interrupting his heart beat and breathing reflexes, which would result in his death. He has undergone 11 surgical procedures, and the cost of his medical care is in the millions of dollars. Millions of dollars. However, he continues to improve and is on the honor roll of Concord High School in Wilmington, Delaware where we live. Although I am no longer a resident of Philadelphia, I was born and raised in South Philadelphia and lived there for 34 years. I was a Philadelphia Police Officer in the 1970s. Most of my relatives, including my mother, my brother and his family, my daughter 129 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY and her family and my son and his family and my three grandchildren continue to live here. I care deeply for the City and its citizens. The proposed changes to the Philadelphia Code previously mentioned are common sense public safety measures that will provide badly needed oversight to the way guns are purchased and transferred in the City. In light of the recent spate of gun violence the City is experiencing, and indeed the continuing plague of gun violence, these particular changes would help to eliminate, will send the correct message to the very people that are ruining the neighborhoods of Philadelphia. The message being that the City government and its citizens are determined to take back control of the City of Philadelphia. I strongly encourage and sincerely hope that you, the Members of City Council, will show your resolve and pass these Code changes, and that the Pennsylvania General Assembly will follow your lead and enact legislation authorizing them. That would be an example of good government working to 130 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY ensure the safety of its citizens. Thank you for allowing me the privilege of speaking in your forum today.

Thank you. Wayne, are you next?

Good morning, Council people. I'd like to thank ya'll for giving me this opportunity, Councilman Darrell Clarke, Councilwoman Donna Miller and Councilman Juan Ramos. I just want to say this, that as Ex-Offenders for Community Empowerment, we have been leading the charge on changing -- Wayne Jacobs, Executive Director of Ex-Offenders for Community Empowerment and co-founder. Over the last five years, Councilman, we have been working with you in terms of finding ways to prevent legal guns from becoming illegal guns. Here recently, I have recently become a victim myself. I recently lost my son. But before that, I was already committed to stopping legal guns from becoming illegal guns. And I'm even more 131 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY committed now as I am before. We are making a pledge. Ex-Offenders for Community Empowerment is making a pledge that we are declaring war on the NRA. We're going to step to them because they are the reasons that guns are continuing to turn illegal because they object to any type of gun legislation to save lives. The NRA is the reason that most of us lost children to gun violence. They are the reason because they are preventing good legislation from stopping legal guns from becoming illegal guns and reducing the flow of crime. So my pledge to ya'll is that we're going to take on the fight of getting this -- not only getting legislation passed in City Council, but we're going to lead the charge and we're going to take it to Harrisburg and we're going to take it to the NRA. The fight is on. Thank you, sir. That's all I wanted to say.

Councilman Clarke, 132 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY Councilman Ramos, I want to thank you for this opportunity to speak today. My name is Steven Blackburn. I am testifying as Board President and co-founder for Ex-Offenders for Community Empowerment. Our organization's mission is to make our community safer through the reduction of crime, to curb the recidivism of released offenders and to reintegrate former offenders back into society as productive and law-abiding citizens. For the past four years one of our major focuses has been the reduction of the availability of illegal guns in our communities. As we know, illegal weapons are found in most violent crimes. Ironically for the past four yours our organization has conducted anti-illegal gun rallies supported by both Councilman Clarke and Councilwoman Miller just blocks away from the school where little Faheem was murdered. It is our position that with each episode, violent episode, there are actually two victims. The offender and the perpetrator. Because the perpetrator, when caught, will probably go to 133 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY jail for life, and that person, although there is not much sympathy for them, that is some mother's child also. Too often the responsive lawmakers to the high profile cases, such as little Faheem, the reaction is to increase the penalty after the fact. Ex-Offenders for Community Empowerment is more concerned with prevention. It is our belief that violent crime can be prevented by limiting opportunity. And we feel that the Bills 040117, 040118, 136, 137 and 113 all fall within that category of prevention. And we pledge our support for the Council. And I know we've got to take this battle to the state, but we're totally behind you. Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Leslie Willis-Lowry. On February 2nd, 2000 I lost my son and only child, Sunga (ph) Thomas-Willis to gun violence. Sunga was robbed and shot to death by two young men, 16 and 17 years old, from Trenton, New Jersey. These young men were in and out of juvenile 134 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY detention centers since the age of 12. To lose someone like Sunga, who was a non-violent person and who was always willing and available to assist people in every endeavor in life is a tragedy, not only to me as a mother, but also to society. Sunga, who contributed positively to society, was a young man with exceptional prospects, a respected leader, and gracious in everything he did, primarily as a result of a powerful combination of his integrity and sincere concern for others. Sunga was given every educational and social opportunity and was reaffirmed and encouraged to meet his fullest potential. As a single mother, I devoted my entire personal and professional life to the advancement of his education and the development of his spiritual understanding. I surrounded him with a support system of caring adults, a loving family, friends and teachers who guided him intellectually and spiritually from infancy. Although it is a struggle, a see-saw in between despair, devastation, optimism and 135 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY hope, I have turned the loss of my son into a crusade for saving other young people who are turning away from moral values. Today we face a crisis among our young people caused in part by gun violence. The epidemic of gun violence is a wake-up call to America. Gun violence shows the lack of control that our society has over guns. The mentality that guns have a part in our culture, along with the illegal marketing practice to distribute guns and the right to bear arms is impractical and unreasonable. It is an epidemic, a health and safety issue that effects humanity. However, the larger issue here is the condition of the heart, the lack of value for life and the sociological forces and pressures that prey on our youth. Consequently, there is an urgent need to protect our children and communities from gun violence, and your voices can counter the influence the gun lobbying clout has, not only on Capitol Hill, but also in the City of Philadelphia, because all of us are paying the 136 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY price in terms of the personal loss and the social cost involved. The great power of the NRA rests in its contention that gun ownership enjoys the Constitutional protection of the Second Amendment, despite the fact that the United States Supreme Court has ruled that such an individual right does not exist. As the late US Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren E. Berger wrote during the bicentennial of the Bill of Rights in 1991, quote, there is no 13 support in the Constitution for the argument that federal and state governments are powerless to regulate the purchase of such firearms. This has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud -- I repeat the word fraud -- on the American public by special interests that I have seen in my lifetime, unquote. Berger blamed the NRA for fermenting this myth. In conclusion, the task before us cannot be ignored as daily headlines testify to the onslaught of gun violence. I realize that there are a host of solutions and not just one approach to address 137 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY the epidemic. However, we must agree on action, on presidential and congressional action, on federal and state and local action, on public and private action. I believe the crisis has grown to such proportions that we must be outraged and moved to support the political action that's introduced here today by Councilman Clarke and Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller, to not only halt the cancerous growth of gun violence in our City, but also to enforce gun control restrictions for public safety. Thank you. That was very difficult, but thank you very much for your patience.

Thank you for your testimony. Do any Members of this Committee at this time want to make any remarks or ask any questions? Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, temporary Chair. I just want to again give my heartfelt sympathy to those of you that have 138 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY been affected by violence. Having personal knowledge of two of the individuals indirectly, being affected by one individual that is a staff member of mine. Wayne, your support in the past, and Steve, on this very important issue over the years, you were very supportive of the initial gun bill that we got passed and signed by the Mayor and was preempted by the State upon its implementation. I want to congratulate you and thank you for your continued support. Hopefully we'll be in a better position to get something done this time. And again, my sympathy to you for what you've had to suffer with your child. So I want to say that we hear you. Again, we are strengthened by your testimony and our resolve remains strong and we're going to push forward and hopefully get done what needs to get done by any means necessary. Thank you.

I just want to say, Councilman, we are behind you and we will begin to organize state wide, if need be, to 139 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY begin to get this important legislation in the House and passed. And one other thing. Councilman Cohen, we will be coming to you to help make that possible so we can go to Pittsburgh to step to the NRA.

Thank you.

Any questions from any of the other Committee Members?

I just want you to know that Councilman Clarke and Councilman Ramos expressed the feelings of everyone in the City Council, I'm sure, as to the tragedies that have affected so many people in Philadelphia, including some of the speakers. And we're all going to be working together very hard to make memory of these days the last such memories people in Philadelphia will ever have. We thank you for your support.

Thank you for taking time out and coming before this City Council and continuing to do the good work that you have been doing. 140 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY

Is there a James Thompson? Jerel Mitchell? Debra Williams? Is there anyone out there who has a desire to want to testify and has not been called? Anyone? Are there any students out there who have not been called yet and want to testify? If not, this appears to be our last witness. Is this Ms. Deborah Williams?

Good afternoon. My name is Deborah Williams. I'd like to give honor to God first and to say hello to the Council people who are present. I come in support of your bills, the bills that were proposed by Councilwoman Miller and Councilman Clarke. I have also lost family members -- not my children -- but I've lost family members and friends to weapons violence. I think it's important for us as members of the Philadelphia community to speak up and to be extremely vocal about our need for change in the City. 141 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY I've worked with many of the groups. I'm a member of the Million Mom March, but I've worked with other groups and have been active in the community to speak up against violence that's going on in our community. I've also spoken before elementary school kids, which I know many of the people I heard here speak today said that when they went to speak, they spoke to junior high school and high school children, but there are elementary school children who are very afraid, and they have come to me and told me they were afraid because of weapons in their homes, and also because of the violence that's going on in the communities. I do have two children who are in the Philadelphia public school system; one in elementary and one who attends Roxborough High School. I think it is very important for us to spread the word and don't let it just stop here. Don't let this bill, these very important bills, be silent and contained within City Hall, but that we should actually spread the word in our communities, in our 142 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY churches. I've spoken to ministers -- I am a minister -- about the importance of talking about this because many of the children who are attending our churches have been hurt by weapons violence. So I do greatly support these bills. I've been a member of the United States Army ROTC and I know what it's like to take a part and put together an M-16, but I also know why I had to do it. And it was to protect myself, yes, and to possibly take a life, but that was as a member of the military. But when we're talking about communities in which -- I don't know about you -- but I hear gunshots almost every day. And it's hard for my children to sleep sometimes because of the gunshots they hear. And I think it's very important for us if we do lobby, and as communities go out and be extremely -- I can't stress it enough -- vocal about the problems going on here in Philadelphia, the problems that we're dealing with here as residents. This is not about special interest groups, but this is about our 143 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY community as a whole, and we need to go out and be extremely, extremely strong and vocal about what is going on here. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Do any Committee Members have any questions for this witness? (No response.)

Thank you. Is there anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)

Seeing none, that concludes the public hearing of the Committee of Public Safety. - - - - 144 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC MEETING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY - - - - Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - - - - Public meeting conducted by the Committee on Public Safety, held in Room 400, City Hall, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on the above date, to consider action on the following: BILLS 040117, 040118, 040136, 040137, 040113, 040132. PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER, Chair COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILWOMAN JOAN KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS 145 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY - PUBLIC MEETING

We will now go into our public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Krajewski.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I move that Bill No. 9 040117 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation, with a suspension of Rules so as to permit first reading at the next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)

All those in favor? (Aye.)

Opposed? (No response.)

It has been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 21 040117 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation, and further recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Session. 146 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY - PUBLIC MEETING The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Krajewski.

Madam Chairwoman, I move that Bill No. 040118 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation, with a suspension of Rules so as to permit first reading at the next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)

All in favor? (Aye.)

Opposed? (No response.) The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Krajewski.

Madam Chairwoman, I move that Bill 040136 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation, with the Rules of Council suspended so as to permit first reading at the next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)

All in favor? (Aye.) 147 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY - PUBLIC MEETING

Bill No. 3 040136 has been reported out of this Committee favorably with a Rules suspension so as to permit first reading at our next Session. Councilwoman Krajewski.

I move that Bill 040137 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation, with the suspension of Rules so as to permit first reading at the next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)

All in favor? (Aye.)

Opposed? (None.)

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Krajewski.

Madam Chairwoman, I move that Bill 040113 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation, with a suspension of Rules so as to permit first reading at the next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.) 148 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY - PUBLIC MEETING

All in favor? (Aye.)

It has been properly moved and seconded and voted favorably that Bill No. 040113 be reported out of this Committee with a Rules suspension. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Krajewski.

Madam Chairwoman, I move that Bill 040132 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation, with a suspension of Rules so as to permit first reading at the next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)

All in favor? (Aye.)

Bill is approved. I want to thank everyone for coming, all the Committee Members and all of those that came to testify to the Committee on Public Safety. That concludes our public meeting. 149 03/09/04 - PUBLIC SAFETY - PUBLIC MEETING Thank you. (Council adjourned at 1:25 p.m.) - - - - 150 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of March 9, 2004, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. RE: COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY _________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR