of the fact that they have the inability to get down to stairs to worship our worship
the unified is a unified okay i don't appreciate your laughter but it's ridiculous it's a ridiculous
statement that's mr demarco please be respectful i'll move i will mr chairman i apologize um
Mr. Jenkins, your site plan for this, and if I could put it up if Rich Pressman wants to.
I can look for it, Richard.
I have it as well.
Let me ask the question, though.
Your plan is to have 40 homeless individuals within that sleeping area, correct, that you identified on the site plan?
That is correct.
All right. You would agree that some of the beds, matter of fact, at least half of the beds or so are about three feet apart, correct?
Actually, they are six feet apart, as on the plans that are indicated.
And you have beds that are also three feet apart.
Actually, every single bed is actually six feet apart.
All right. Let's go to the videotape, shall we? Rich, I can put my on my screen if you disable the screen.
Is this what you're looking for, Richard?
no i don't i don't you only have that you have a letter to councilwoman gautier on your screen
i can do it but you have you have to end screen share so i can put it up
it's paused i'm sorry it says paused i apologize
is that showing now richard no i'll do it thank you you did it
mr chairman can you see the site plan on the screen yes
yes mr uh jenkins you say the beds are six feet apart but this distance here is three feet
11 inches correct you see my cursor i don't see your cursor all right you see you see the beds
on the bottom that are that says three feet 11 inches as the distance apart correct
and you have beds that are also three feet apart in the middle row correct so the head-to-head
of any bed of any person sleeping is six feet apart all right but you have beds you have
distances on your own plan you submitted this plan Mr Jenkins you have distances of three feet
and three feet 11 inches between these beds correct you're talking about from the end from
the end of the bed the the goal of the uh of the distancing is to make sure that people's um heads
are six feet apart from every single person.
Whose goal was that?
That was our goal, to make sure that people were effectively distanced from,
to prevent and to deter any possible infection,
the fact that we're dealing in a COVID-19 world.
Right, and you have beds that are three feet apart, correct?
There is no person's head that is three feet apart,
but if you're going to talk about the edge of the beds.
Sir, it's a simple question, Mr. Jenkins. You have beds where the distance is three feet apart, do you not?
If you're looking at the top of the bed to the bottom of the bed, sure, there are spaces there that are three feet apart.
Mr. Jenkins, how about side by side?
Mr. Jenkins, how about side by side? Are they three feet apart?
Can we stipulate that there are beds that are less than six foot apart?
Yeah, that's all.
Sure, we can say that there are beds that are less than six feet apart.
Side by side, they are six feet apart.
Thank you. I think that might be it, Mr. Chairman.
And, Mr. Jenkins, to sum up, you've testified earlier that you are raising money in the anticipation of receiving state funding to operate this group living use.
Is that correct?
That is correct.
And in the basement, while the basement is empty, there's nothing to stop non-handicapped accessible individuals from using the space for uses associated with the house of worship, such as Sunday school, any Bible study.
Nothing stops you from operating those uses for your house of worship in the basement.
Actually, we have not, since the COVID-19 virus, we have not been able to hold worship services at that facility.
It's kind of similar to the property of 3965, where you have not been able to have a commercial area in the lower level of that building.
And your client has applied for a variance and received a variance for commercial use for residential.
because of the fact, he said that because of COVID-19,
he cannot use that particular property for a commercial use.
Of course.
And your client requested a variance, and we're asking for a variance as well.
I'm not talking about my client.
Mr. Jenkins, did you just say you can't operate your house of worship at the property?
We have not been able to have worship at our property.
We've been holding worship service, our Sunday morning worship,
in Love Park and Center City, Philadelphia. Mr. Jenkins, what is stopping you? If the city has
revoked the restrictions on church operation, what is stopping you from operating your house
of worship within the property? Because we have a very vulnerable population, and to put that many
people inside of the building and to pack them in like that, it could be potentially dangerous to
those that we serve. Well, that's your choice. You're permitted to do it by the city's regulations
when they scaled back the COVID-19 regulations after the shutdown.
You're permitted to operate at that if you choose, correct?
So on our staff, we actually have a person with a background in infectious diseases and toxicology
who's actually on the line now, who has advised us that it would be dangerous
to be able to put vulnerable people that are homeless and compact them with that many people.
Our worship services have about 120 people to 150 people that show up.
You mean people that are not vaccinated is what you're referring to, right?
I'm sorry?
You're referring to people who are not vaccinated.
There are people that are vaccinated and unvaccinated.
So to put them into a place of worship, it could be dangerous for them, yes.
Oh, so it's your choice not to have either vaccinated or unvaccinated people within your, it's your choice not to operate your use, is that right?
Right. So you're suggesting that we allow people to come to worship that are vaccinated, but not allow people that are that are unvaccinated not to receive their right to practice their religious freedom.
No, sir. I didn't say that at all. Objection, Mr. Chairman. It's not exactly. It's completely not what I said.
What I said was it's your choice not to have your house of worship under the rules for COVID-19.
You're permitted to do so, but it's your choice not to.
No, we've been advised by a professional that has a background in infectious diseases and toxicology.
It's hearsay. Well, go ahead.
Based on that, we can bring them on.
Gentlemen, we're talking over each other. I don't even know what the question was that's being objected to.
Mr. Pressman, unmute yourself, please.
No, I was drawing the objection, Mr. Chairman. That's all I have.
I was just asking that it was his choice to not have the, you know.
And I want to clarify for the board, we're not asking for any change in use of the main sanctuary.
So that's really not a relevant line of questioning, period.
Well, it is.
Is there anything else, Mr. DeMarco?
No, I'm finished.
It is relevant because the use is available.
He's zoned for a house of worship.
There's no dispute.
I'm sure you would stipulate that.
No, it is zoned for a house of use.
And he will hopefully return.
to full usage as as medically warranted and safe for the congruence um with that mr chairman i'd
like to call our next witness please i'm done thank you your next witness is uh caroline
i'm done thank you that's your next witness is uh carolina pina
can she please raise her hand i'll stop my screen share
miss pina you can unmute yourself and wait for the chair
pina please spell your full name and i'll swear you in carolina pena uh that's c-a-r-o-l-i-n-a
P-E-N-A.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Thank you.
Thank you.
Mr. Pressman.
Ms. Pena, can you tell the members of the board what your profession is?
I am a registered architect in the state of Pennsylvania.
And what's the name of your firm?
Parallel Architecture Studio.
And where is the office located?
230 South Brown Street, 17th floor, Philadelphia, PA, 19-102.
And how long have you been a registered architect?
Five years.
And have you ever testified before this board before?
I have.
And are you familiar with the variance being sought by the applicant today for a group living?
I have.
And the required variance on the four parking spaces?
And do you know who prepared the plans for the lower level?
Yes, the Livingston Group.
And what is your connection with the Livingston Group?
I looked over their plans for the property to take over after the project architect passed away.
And do you feel that the plans comply with applicable building codes?
And as far as you're aware, did Illinois approve those plans as filed?
Yes, there are no changes to the existing structure. Only a border up window was replaced.
And they also replaced the grate on the street.
And is your understanding that the relief being sought today is only for permitted use and not dimensional in relief?
That is correct.
Can you please describe your understanding of the local area where this property is located?
Sure. It's located on Lancaster Avenue at a five-point intersection of 40th Lancaster Avenue,
Haverford, and it's located in a CMX2 site classification, which is intended for mixed use.
There are a number of shelters and low-income housing units for transition in the community.
There are no living units for men currently in the area.
Are you familiar with Jamie's Place at 40th and Mount Vernon?
Yes, which is really close by this location.
So is the proposed use consistent with other surrounding uses in the neighborhood then?
In my opinion, yes.
and is it in your opinion is this consistent with cmx2 zoning class um where the property is located
uh yes and would you be able to get the personal care facility that's being proposed
without the requested variance no do you believe that the variance if granted would adversely
impact the public health safety or general welfare of the surrounding neighborhood
no and why not uh the organization is committed to addressing homelessness in the community
um the program will in fact improve community safety and welfare by relieving the community
of persons on the street at night um it will also prevent people in the community experiencing
experiencing homelessness from being impacted by the elements so well at this point i have to
Mr. Chairman, she's offering testimony about a neighborhood that she doesn't live in.
She could testify to architecture, perhaps, and, you know, getting into health, safety, and welfare, I don't think that's appropriate.
Sustained, maybe you might want to rephrase your questions, Mr. Pressman.
Do you believe that there's a need in the community, in general, for housing?
Same objections. She could testify to architecture, to zoning.
Sustained, sustained, sustained.
Ms. Penney, do you ever do any planning?
Yes, I do.
Okay, as a planner, do you believe that the variants would help relieve the need for homeless to get a temporary shelter?
Objection. She says she's an architect, not a planner.
I asked her if she did planning. You objected.
But yeah, but planners are different than architects.
But yeah, but planners are different than architects. An architect or is she a plan planner?
An architect or is she a plan planner?
Could be both.
Are you also a planner?
Yes, I have done master planning before, yes.
So I ask the question again, Ms. Pena.
Will the variance, if granted, adversely impact the health, public, and safety welfare?
Well, I object.
Up to the board.
I don't think she's qualified to answer that.
You can answer in the overruled.
It's okay to answer?
Yes, you do.
Yes, I believe that the program will improve the community safety and welfare
because it will prevent people in the community experiencing homelessness
from being impacted by the elements of weather and crime.
And will the variants, if granted, unduly burdened public facilities?
no and will the grant of the variance cause any significant adverse environmental impact
to the surrounding community no and do you believe that this is in harmony with the
requested variants with other uses in the neighborhood um and the zoning code in general
uh yes i think so i think it's appropriate because there are other uses related to this one
in the community and as i stated before this program will help people on the streets by
providing them with a path to independent living and therefore the variance is granted the least
variance is necessary for this project to move forward in your opinion yes i have nothing further
from this witness. Mr. DeMarco. Thank you. Ms. Pena, you testified that the site plan that's
been submitted by the applicant was approved by L&I. Was that your testimony?
The building as it was. I don't believe the plan was approved with the use that is being asked for
right now right so this site plan was just submitted with the application nothing has
been approved by this board or any or lni in any way correct uh the building as it is it's it's
approved the structure that's existing is legal but you you're you agree i think you're agreeing
with me that the plans that were submitted were for use that has not been approved yet correct
i agree with you yes okay and so the the applicant would have to move on to the building phase should
he be successful with this application, he would have to get a certificate of occupancy for that
basement use, would he not? That will be correct. Okay, fair enough. So you said that this, you