civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - March 31, 2021

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Mar 31, 20215h 23m

We're here requesting for a variance relief to allow for a vehicle paint finishing shop

Similar wording

in an existing commercial truck repair body shop.

Similar wording

The proposed variance in the property, as you can see, is zoned as I-1 Industrial.

Similar wording

This blue sort of highlight here is the site in question, and as you can see around it,

Similar wording

Lose Mr. Patel

Similar wording

It appears

Similar wording

Mr. Brittill, are you there?

Similar wording

I'm not sure what happened here.

Similar wording

Trucking industry, as a natural pairing to the services that we are ready to...

Similar wording

Mr. Brittill, pardon the interruption.

Similar wording

We lost you for a considerable amount of time, so if you can proceed with your most recent comments.

Similar wording

Oh, I'm sorry. What was the – I apologize.

Similar wording

You talked about the business has been existing, I believe, and a sentence or two after that, and we lost you.

Similar wording

Okay. I'll restate that. My apologies.

Similar wording

the uh the existing business which is the truck commercial truck repair service has been in

Similar wording

existence for in this space for about 16 years um providing uh commercial truck service to the

Similar wording

trucking industry as a natural pairing to the services that they already provide um they're

Similar wording

seeking on the additional service of paint finishing for their existing clientele trucks

Similar wording

that they repair um the site they that we're um speaking of just to get a sense of on the ground

Similar wording

level is here it faces on caroline road as you saw from the aerial this is some exterior shots of the

Similar wording

of the site here from caroline road

Similar wording

as you can see this is the neighboring property to the west of it um this is um all along caroline

Similar wording

road as you can see there's warehouses other um sort of industrial storage

Similar wording

the site itself is actually two units two commercial um units we occupy unit one um the

Similar wording

other unit is is a uh storage and warehouse use it's not affiliated uh with the applicant um we

Similar wording

We're here actually for approval for this increased use just for space one, where we are attending.

Similar wording

As I stated, the proposed use is just maintaining the existing use and then adding the vehicle finishing service to that use within that space.

Similar wording

Now, in terms of the refusal, there is a Northeast overlay that restricts commercial truck repairs and vehicle finishing and essentially anything within that realm.

Similar wording

Because this use predated that overlay that we're approved for the existing use, but because of that overlay, what would normally be a by-right increase of service for this use requires variance approval.

Similar wording

Now, we did meet with the RCO on January 27th.

Similar wording

As I stated earlier, we didn't receive any letter, but I do want to address two of the concerns that were raised there.

Similar wording

Generally speaking, it wasn't well attended.

Similar wording

Our position is that's mainly because there really isn't any residential in the immediate area.

Similar wording

I mean, the closest residential space, as you can see from here, is on Commonly Road, which is over 2,000 feet away.

Similar wording

And as such, in terms of the immediately affected sort of neighbors, we're talking about all these, all the industrial sites that are adjacent to it.

Similar wording

Now, the two main concerns that were voiced, one of which has nothing to do with us, which I'll get into in a second.

Similar wording

get into in a second um but the really though the only concern that actually has something to do with

Similar wording

but really

Similar wording

the only

Similar wording

the tenant um is concerned about pollution in the area um or causing additional pollution or

Similar wording

anything of that nature when you hear um a use such as um paint finishing or anything like that

Similar wording

that's a natural concern um so one what we explain at the meeting which i'd like to explain to the

Similar wording

board is sort of just the mechanics of how this increased use will take place on the site.

Similar wording

So first, just to give you a sense of the interior, here are some photos of the interior

Similar wording

of the existing shop for truck repair.

Similar wording

As you can see from these photos, it's pretty sizable, as it would have to be to service

Similar wording

this sort of clientele.

Similar wording

some interior shots here so you can understand the space that we're working with when I get

Similar wording

into how the paint finishing will take place and so let me just go and so just to briefly explain

Similar wording

how this works when it comes to air pollution.

Similar wording

The paint booth that the business is seeking to install

Similar wording

firstly will be housed inside the space.

Similar wording

It won't be housed outside in the parking lot

Similar wording

or anything of that nature.

Similar wording

That was a comment that was made during the meeting

Similar wording

regarding the air pollution.

Similar wording

Per industry standard, these booths are equipped

Similar wording

with both intake, airflow, and exhaust filters

Similar wording

preventing the release of any particles. So in addition to being inside, the way it's set up

Similar wording

is to have these filtration systems within it to prevent the release of any sort of pollution or

Similar wording

anything of that nature. Furthermore, the commercial space itself that's being rented

Similar wording

that will house these booths has all the proper ventilation and airflow required by both the

Similar wording

building code and the health code. So not only will the actual paint booth not produce any sort

Similar wording

of pollution to the exterior, if by some chance there was some sort of malfunction where it did,

Similar wording

the actual commercial space that's housing it as the required sort of ventilation to mitigate

Similar wording

any effect like that. Attached, you know, I won't get in too much detail, but attached to exhibit

Similar wording

just an explanation of how the filters work, how the airflow works for the painting booth. So that

Similar wording

sort of highlights the mitigation of any pollution, increased air pollution per industry standard.

Similar wording

The other concern that was raised at the meeting was an issue regarding some sort of

Similar wording

dispute on the property lines regarding an abandoned railroad train that runs nearby the site.

Similar wording

Again, the applicant here is the tenant. Not only were we not aware of that issue because it has nothing to do with the tenant, it has, I guess, to do with the owner of the property.

Similar wording

It has no bearing on what the tenant is trying to do here. Short of sort of connecting that neighboring property with the owner, there's really nothing that the tenant can do regarding some sort of easement dispute with the current owner.

Similar wording

And so those are really the two main concerns that were expressed here at the community meeting. Again, it was, I want to say about four or five people, one of which was the representative of the RCO, and the other one was the neighbor that had the issue with the easement dispute that wanted to voice that.

Similar wording

Other than that, there was no one else in attendance. But our position is that because

Similar wording

the air pollution will be virtually nonexistent and the property line dispute or the property

Similar wording

line concern that was raised has nothing to do with the tenant, that this proposed use

Similar wording

will have de minimis effect, virtually no effect on the immediate area. And we request that the

Similar wording

board approve that use. Because again, this is existing. This is not something new that's being

Similar wording

built. This shop has been here for over a decade. It's been existing in that right. And they just

Similar wording

want to add this service. They're professionally operated. If they weren't, they wouldn't be in

Similar wording

existence for as long as they have. And as such, we're hoping that the board can see that although

Similar wording

We're hoping that the board can see that although this overlay exists, what I believe is to prevent any additional new sort of shots of this nature being being created.

Similar wording

this overlay exists, what I believe is to

Similar wording

We hope the board will see that adding the service to this existing shop really doesn't have a negative effect on the community.

Similar wording

So frankly, I was surprised to hear that the council member was so against it because we didn't we didn't receive any notice of that.

Similar wording

So barring any questions from the board, I would like to take the opportunity to have a representative from the business, Mr. Ahmed Ramazal, affirm and adopt my testimony.

Similar wording

Please do so, sir. Please identify yourself with the records, spell your first and last name, and I'll swear you in.

Similar wording

Ahmed, if you could just raise your hand so they can recognize you.

Similar wording

I'm not sure I see the individual in question, sir.

Similar wording

okay so why don't we do this uh mr bertill uh as an officer of court will stipulate that your

Similar wording

client would have adopted your testimony i do have a question if you could answer it if not

Similar wording

you know we'll move on currently do you know if your client what your client does with

Similar wording

the trucks that are repaired that are in need of painting is it is it sent out to another location

Similar wording

or is it to another, to a company that spray paints not related to your client?

Similar wording

My understanding is that they don't, oh, I understand the question.

Similar wording

Yeah, so it would be to a company that's not related to our client.

Similar wording

If I understand, you're asking whether they provide the service at a different location?

Similar wording

Correct.

Similar wording

To my understanding, they do not.

Similar wording

Excuse me, this is Sharon Saleta.

Similar wording

We received an email from Alice Udovich at 412, providing us with the case summary from the RCO

Similar wording

meeting. And in fact, their position is one of support. I'm trying to go through the email now.

Similar wording

Alice may be here. I'm not sure whether that changes the councilman's position,

Similar wording

but she may want to speak to that. Alice, are you with us?

Similar wording

Ms. Sudevich, please raise your hand so we can swear you in.

Similar wording

He's already been sworn in.

Similar wording

We'll just have her identify herself with the record again, spell her last name.

Similar wording

She's still on the roof.

Similar wording

U-D-O-V-I-C-H.

Similar wording

Although I did have to forward that notice from the RCO, I wanted to disclose that there

Similar wording

were only four in attendance of the actual meeting. Those were all board members. The board

Similar wording

did oppose it. However, the new president of Normandy Civic is quite nervous, and she

Similar wording

put a vote out on Facebook, and that's what that summary indicates, which I believe was

Similar wording

18 opposed, 25 in support. I don't believe that that vote should

Similar wording

really matter because um as miss pointed out there aren't a lot of near neighbors here

Similar wording

this is sort of an isolated spot however the councilman does have an office directly across

Similar wording

the street we received a letter from the president of the fop and i believe there's also a near

Similar wording

neighbor on this call um who let us know that this outfit have not been um good tenants and

Similar wording

good neighbors so to add to allow them to add this when they've already operated um in manners that

Similar wording

are not appealing to to um the neighbors there you know is part of the reason why the councilman

Similar wording

is opposing it? Well, I'm not, this is actually the first that I've heard about the secondary

Similar wording

vote. I don't, you know, I'm not aware of kind of what the change in leadership or anything with

Similar wording

regarding that. But I believe that the neighbor that's probably on the call is the neighbor that

Similar wording

attended the meeting that was raising issues that, again, actually had nothing to do

Similar wording

with the tenant. Those were issues that are tied to the owner regarding property lines.

Similar wording

that are tied to the owner regarding property lines and a railroad, an abandoned railroad,

Similar wording

again, which was all outside the, you know, I had no understanding of that because it wasn't

Similar wording

related to what we were trying to do here. So maybe they can speak to that in a second,

Similar wording

I would imagine. But as far as the vote goes, I can confirm that, again, there was only four

Similar wording

people there i i didn't know all of them were board members but i figured that to be the case

Similar wording

um and i think partly it's because of the affected area is just not residential and so um the people

Similar wording

that would have in any invest vested interest in this would be um the fop which is down this down

Similar wording

the road and adjacent industrial sites. Now, no representative from the FOP attended the meeting

Similar wording

or contacted our office in response to our notices. So again, this is the first that I'm

Similar wording

hearing that they're opposed to. I'm not sure why. But again, this is an existing, this won't be a

Similar wording

new use. Well, the paint finishing will be a new use, but the business that's operating there,

Similar wording

The truck service that the overlay generally is meant to prevent has been in existence prior to this overlay and will continue to be in existence with this or without this use.

Similar wording

And so they're trying to be able to provide an additional service to not lose out business, which is already sort of tough now in terms of I think anyone can admit that operating a business is sort of tough in this environment.

Similar wording

So they're trying to add an additional service to maintain customers and, frankly, attract more.

Similar wording

And so in terms of the effect on neighbors, there virtually is none.

Similar wording

Why don't we do this? Let's see if there are any individuals who want to testify on this case.

Similar wording

And then I'll make a suggestion at the end.

Similar wording

So if anyone is here to testify in this case, please raise your hand.

Similar wording

Mr. Chair, I have Mr. Sean Ward with his hand raised, do I allow him to speak?

Similar wording

Yeah, Mr. Ward, he's got a case later on, doesn't he?

Similar wording

Mr. Chairman, can you hear me?

Similar wording

Yes. As the board may be aware, I am zoning and code council for FOP Lodge 5. I did have a conversation on the phone with John McNesby, the president of Lodge 5.

Similar wording

He reiterates and joins in the councilman's objection to this application, and I wanted the board to know that.

Similar wording

He indicated that the operation there is quite oppressive to the ongoing industrial slash commercial use in the neighborhood.

Similar wording

So we would join in the councilman's objection to the grant of the variance.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Anyone else to testify in this case?

Similar wording

Please raise your hand.

Similar wording

I have a Barbara Cohen with my raise right now.

Similar wording

ms cohen please identify yourself first and last name and your address

Similar wording

my name is barbara cohan um i am counsel to phoenix lithographing corporation

Similar wording

at 11631 caroline road we also own the property ma'am ma'am hold on please

Similar wording

sorry things would you spell your last name and then i'll swear you in sorry c o h a n

Similar wording

Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed.

Similar wording

Phoenix Lithograph Incorporation owns the properties on both sides of the subject property.

Similar wording

This may be an industrial park, but apart from the subject property, it is well maintained.

Similar wording

It's extremely well kept.

Similar wording

um we have had numerous problems with the subject property in that they leave these big car carriers

Similar wording

and tractor trailers parked on both sides of the street which causes a hazard it's posted against

Similar wording

which causes a hazard. It's posted against it. The FOP has actually gotten involved several times

Similar wording

against it. The FOP has actually

Similar wording

when they left trucks that were smashed up sitting out on the street for as long as two and three

Similar wording

weeks. And it was only after the police got involved that those were moved. We are concerned,

Similar wording

And notwithstanding their promise to have this high-tech booth, there's no guarantee

Similar wording

that if the variance is granted that they will in fact use such a booth.

Similar wording

Automotive paints have odors, they're environmentally problematic.

Similar wording

There are risks to the buildings on both sides, so we have an interest in that.

Similar wording

In addition to that, these tenants have repeatedly shown an unwillingness to be good neighbors, to abide by the rules.

Similar wording

They're always young guys tearing in and out of the property without even looking.

Similar wording

They've created a hazard.

Similar wording

They've really become a nuisance.

Similar wording

They frighten our customers.

Similar wording

our concern is simply that we cannot depend on their representation that they will do this

Similar wording

in a safe manner when they don't do anything else in a proper manner and that's why we join

Similar wording

the FOP and Councilman O'Neill in opposing the property, opposing the variance.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you very much.

Similar wording

Anyone else?

Similar wording

Yeah, please, Mr. Pertone.

Similar wording

I can just respond to a few things here.

Similar wording

Firstly, I mean, there's been some characterizations of, well, let me just start by representatives

Similar wording

from the Phoenix Corporation did attend the community meeting that was held, and none

Similar wording

of what Mrs. Cohan just stated was mentioned at that meeting. In fact, because they were

Similar wording

the only people there that weren't on the board, I specifically asked them regarding

Similar wording

any specific issues that they had with this site. None of this was brought up. None of

Similar wording

these statements were brought up. The only issues that were brought up was something regarding a

Similar wording

property line and a railroad line that I just wasn't aware of and wasn't sure how to resolve

Similar wording

it because we weren't related to that. In addition to that, there is, we aren't the only tenants

Similar wording

here. I'm not sure about what Ms. Callahan is referring to regarding people tearing out of the

Similar wording

property um but this the site itself uh is you can see from the aerial in fact is part mostly

Similar wording

does the the construction commercial vehicle not construction commercial vehicles that are being

Similar wording

serviced um are parked in the site so there's really no opportunity to tear in or out um so

Similar wording

i'm not really sure how that's even really possible on this site with every with all the vehicles that

Similar wording