COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE3 Room 400, City Hall6 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, April 26, 20117 10:30 a.m. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA10 COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE11 COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN BILL GREEN12 COUNCILMAN WILLIAM K. GREENLEE COUNCILMAN CURTIS JONES, JR.13 COUNCILMAN JAMES KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN MARIA D. QUINONES-SANCHEZ14 COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO, JR.15 COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO BILLS 110135, 110136, 110137 and 11013817 RESOLUTION 110161 - - -19 2
Good2 morning, everyone. This is a continued3 public hearing of the Committee of the4 Whole.5 I would ask Mr. McPherson to6 please read the resolutions and bills.7 MR. McPHERSON: Resolution8 110161, the Five Year Plan; Bill No.9 110135, the Capital Program 2012 through10 2017; Bill 110136, the Capital Budget11 2012; Bill No. 110137, the Operating12 Budget for Fiscal 2012; Bill No. 110138,13 the wage tax. And we're taking testimony14 today on Bill No. 110137, the Operating15 Budget, and our first department is the16 First Judicial District.17
Good morning.20 JUDGE DEMBE: Good morning.21 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:22 Please identify yourself for the record23 and proceed with your testimony.24 JUDGE DEMBE: Pamela Dembe,25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 President Judge of the Court of Common2 Pleas, First Judicial District.3
David Wasson,4 Court Administrator, First Judicial5 District.6
Kevin Cross, Deputy7 Court Administrator, Financial Services.8 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:9 Welcome.10
Good morning,14 Council President and Councilmembers,15 judges, Court staff, any other elected16 officials, early risers and fellow17 citizens. It's my privilege to present18 the First Judicial District's FY12 budget19 testimony today representing the Court of20 Common Pleas, Municipal Court and Traffic21 Court of Philadelphia. It's an honor to22 follow in the footsteps of the great Dave23 Lawrence, who after 40 years of Court24 service retired this past year to greener25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 pastures and is having a great time and2 will probably enjoy watching me muddle3 through this testimony. Big shoes to4 fill, but it's really an honor to be5 here. And I would like to introduce --6 as I took Dave's position, Charles Mapp7 is now the Chief Deputy Court8 Administrator, who is here as well.9
We both took our13 posts around the same time.14 If it pleases Council, we'd15 like to proceed today maybe a little16 different than normal for these17 proceedings. First, we'd like to make18 our written testimony part of the record,19 and we basically have highlighted six20 achievements, six items, that we would21 like to present to Council that we would22 like to talk about today. The first five23 I'll talk through a few slides, and then24 the last one, which is the theme of our25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 presentation, a return on investment in2 the Courts, we have a little slideshow3 for you. It's about three minutes. It's4 not too long, and hopefully it won't be5 too painful. Then after that, I'll6 answer any questions you may have.7
At a very high10 level, who we are, we have 12511 commissioned judges in the First Judicial12 District, 2,600 full-time, part-time and13 temporary staff. That represents both14 General Fund and Grant. We handle15 600,000 new filings every year, of which16 we dispose of at least 600,000 of those17 filings every year. And under18 supervision is 100,000 people both pre19 and post trial with our staff. 22 Just to show our part -- in the23 handout, you'll see our General Fund24 position reductions over the last six25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 years, and in the handout, you'll see2 over the last six years, we've reduced3 our General Fund staff positions by 194 percent. 8 The first item that we'd like9 to highlight is enhanced services10 request. 8 million budget, we would like to15 present six -- or five different areas16 for enhanced services that we would just17 present to Council to consider possibly18 investing in the Courts, and we'll show19 you how we invest back into the City. In20 fact, for every dollar invested in some21 of these items, the Court has a proven22 track record of giving $4 back to the23 City, whether it's in enhanced revenue,24 whether it's in reduced prison25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 population. 3 So of those items -- we'll just4 run through them real quickly -- Clerk of5 Courts reductions, replacing those; FJD6 grant shortfalls; expansion of Community7 Courts and Accelerated Misdemeanor8 Program; and restoring the level of9 offender supervision services, which is10 very important with the hundred thousand11 people that we represent; and assigned12 counsel fees. 22 Just on my way over here, a23 couple of questions were asked, so I'll24 try to answer them now about that. 6 million2 couldn't be given to you all at once,3 could you take it in increments? 7 And clearly electronic monitoring, which8 I just discussed, as it significantly,9 directly and immediately reduces prison10 population. And following up with that11 is improving the level of offender12 supervision. Probation officers do a13 great job, both juvenile and adult. 21 A second thing is an update on22 the Family Court facility. There's a23 nice rendering of what the building is24 going to look like, the very beautiful25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 building, 15th and Arch Streets. Just to2 give Council an update as to where that3 all stands, after many interesting months4 of issues, all the documents have been5 signed. They're waiting legal review by6 the lawyers for the state. m. 18 Clerk of Courts update, this19 has been a success story for our20 assumption of the duties of Clerk of21 Courts. Joseph Evers, who is our22 Prothonotary, took over the Clerk of23 Courts operation on April 1st of last24 year under the direction of President25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Judge Dembe. 5 Most significantly, all the6 staff, 90 percent, came over to the7 Courts, no problem. The other ten who8 didn't come wanted to retire or they got9 other jobs in the City. No one was laid10 off. It was a very smooth transition,11 thanks to Deputy Mayor Gillison and the12 City's side to help with that and Council13 for helping make that happen. 23 You'll see on the next slide what amazing24 results we've had with that. 2 One of the goals of the Courts3 over the next several years is to become4 totally paperless with regard to court5 cases, have an e-filing system. The6 participants love it, the lawyers love7 it, the Court loves it. 10 The next item I would like to11 talk about revenue contributions to the12 General Fund budget. 18 Now, here's the thing I talked19 about with the Clerk of Courts. We've20 increased collections for the Clerk of21 Courts -- that's the criminal22 collections -- over 100 percent in just23 the first eight months of taking the24 office over, and that is money -- for25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 every dollar we collect in criminal, 502 cents of that comes directly back to the3 City.
14 Our diversity efforts, we're15 very proud of this slide. If you look at16 the FJD staff as far as who the FJD17 hires, 42 percent are either African18 American, Asian, Hispanic or other, 5819 percent Caucasian. 20 If we throw in the measurement of how21 many women, which is how we measure our22 contracts as far as diversity efforts,23 we're well over 55 percent of our staff24 are either women, minorities or disabled,25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 and we're very proud of that. 8 That number is not wrong up there, 389 percent, 38 percent. I've heard some10 testimony from other departments. 18 Now, that's the first five19 items, but the theme of our testimony20 today -- there's so many great things we21 believe the Court has done. Thank you22 for your support and through all our23 different initiatives to everyone, but24 the theme this year is return on25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 investment. Think of the Courts as an2 investment, and as I said before, give us3 a dollar, we will give you $4 back in4 some of our programs. 13 So without further adieu, I14 hope you like this. )20
We've22 come a long way.23 JUDGE DEMBE: Haven't we just?24
On25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 of your testimony, Item No. 4, you2 mention how the City can save $24 million3 per year with electronic monitoring4 units. Have you spoken to the5 Administration and what is their position6 on this request?7 JUDGE DEMBE: Well, we do8 indeed discuss this regularly with the9 City. As you know, through the Criminal10 Justice Advisory Board, we are all trying11 to move together without stepping on each12 other's shoelaces and doing a pretty good13 job of it.14 We are hoping to get that money15 in our budget, but Mr. Gillison is right16 back there --17
Can18 we have someone from the Administration19 come up to the table, please.20 (Witness approached witness21 table.)22
Good25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 morning. Everett Gillison, Deputy Mayor2 for Public Safety.3
Can4 you explain why this request was not5 included in the proposed budget?6 DEPUTY
Well, I7 think that what we have to do is first go8 back. Last year when we needed9 additional monitors, the Administration10 did in fact provide additional money so11 that we could get additional monitors.12 We recognize the amount of efficacy in13 our programming and we also recognize the14 need, but we always have to balance what15 revenue we have available to us, and in16 that process, we continue to work with17 not only the Courts, we work with all of18 our partners to make sure we can make the19 investments when we can.20 So this is another matter that21 we recognize that it is a positive. It's22 something we can do, and we have to23 balance it like we balance everything24 else.25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Was2 any of the Byrne money used for this3 purpose?4 DEPUTY
No, not5 for this. We actually used -- I actually6 took money out of my allocation from the7 Managing Director's Office to help with8 this immediate need, and we still look at9 different ways of trying to help fund10 this particular matter.11
I12 think it's something that should be13 worked on. I think --14 DEPUTY
But17 working on it and getting the money there18 are two different things.19 DEPUTY
Well,20 not necessarily. I think you have to21 work on it in order to make sure that it22 gets there. So I agree with you, Council23 President. We are trying to make sure24 that we identify these kinds of things.25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 We put them very high up on how we can2 move dollars, but like everything else,3 especially when it comes to moving people4 and getting people out of jail, believe5 me, I am a big proponent of getting6 people out of jail at the right time and7 at the right place and with the right8 supervision, and I think that our track9 record over the last not just one year10 but three years shows that we've done a11 lot working together to advance that12 goal.13
And I14 think we would all agree. You've done a15 marvelous job.16 Talking about trying to get17 people out of jail sooner, can you tell18 us what actions you have taken to reduce19 the detainee population in the prisons20 and what additional actions will you be21 doing in the future?22 JUDGE DEMBE: President Judge23 Dembe.24 Under the supervision on the25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 criminal side of Joe Lancellotti, our2 Deputy Court Administrator over there, we3 drilled down to really examine who was4 sitting in jail and have begun working on5 a way to -- ways to grab people as soon6 as possible and get them out.7 For instance, if someone is8 arrested, that case may be processed very9 quickly and bail set at a reasonable10 level, but if a person has other cases in11 the system, those hold them in jail. It12 triggers a detainer for probation13 violation or parole violation. So now14 we're getting those people, all of their15 cases all at once and dealing with them16 within hours or a couple of days at the17 most. We're using video very actively.18 The Municipal Court has done wonders in19 terms of speeding up the processing of20 smaller cases, which are very often the21 things that hold people in jail when they22 shouldn't be in jail. We keep expanding23 our use of interactive video so that you24 don't lose the time where the lawyers25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 need to go to the jail and the prisoner2 has to be brought up, all those sorts of3 mechanical things.4 So we're doing that, and the5 City, of course, is -- there's always a6 problem with housing, and that's not one7 that we can solve. It's one that the8 City has been working on. But people9 don't have housing options once they've10 been arrested, so that very often slows11 us down. But we keep looking for more12 and better ways to get people out on the13 street immediately and to help them find14 housing and jobs.15
Thank16 you very much. I think you and your17 department have done a fantastic job. I18 really commend you for that.19 The Chair recognizes Councilman20 Greenlee.21
Thank22 you, Madam President.23 Good morning, everyone.24 (Good morning.)25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
I2 certainly concur with the comments3 Council President just made on the job4 you're doing, and I think I'll probably5 ask Mr. Gillison to come up too, if he6 could, if that's okay.7 On the issue -- first, I guess8 my first question, on that the9 Council President was referring to10 earlier, first on the probation officers11 and the warrant officers, that $2 million12 that you're talking about, that's13 additional to the 4.5 million that you're14 talking about with the electronic15 monitoring?16
First, on22 the probation officers, this would bring23 them back to the level of 2008, right?24 JUDGE DEMBE: (Judge Dembe nods25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 head in the affirmative.)2
For the3 probation officers, what would that mean?4 How many would the caseload be for each5 probation officer; do you know offhand?6 JUDGE DEMBE: It would be more7 than 50 probation officers. I don't8 think it's helpful to say how many people9 they supervise, because under Robert10 Malvestuto, we've moved to a system where11 those who really need supervision, we're12 on them 24/7. There are a lot of people13 where the probation officer can handle a14 reasonable load because they just kind of15 need some guidance, and there's a fairly16 large pool down at the bottom who need17 very little supervision and are not going18 to get in any more trouble than any other19 mostly young men of that age group.20 So at the different levels21 of -- you either call it dangerousness or22 stupidity, depending on, they need more23 or less supervision, but we are very,24 very thin right now and it is reaching a25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 dangerous point, I believe. We believe2 that. The City believes that. Certainly3 the union representing these folks4 believes that.5 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:6 Mr. Gillison, the reason I asked you to7 come up, have you done sort of an8 analysis on how much not having that9 money -- if you had the money -- let me10 put it the other way. If you had the11 money --12 DEPUTY
-- how15 much would that save in like prisoner16 costs, that kind of thing?17 DEPUTY
Because I20 know you referenced earlier about wanting21 to get people out of the prisons.22 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:23 Absolutely. There is two ways of looking24 at it. There are different points along25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the system. First off, understand that2 most prison costs are fixed because we3 have fixed personnel costs. Until we4 start really closing facilities, we don't5 get any dramatic savings. We get the6 incremental savings that's not having to7 deal with both the feeding and also8 clothing and also providing medical care,9 which depending on the person can10 sometimes be rather expensive. Those are11 not insignificant, and we try to move as12 many people out of the system as quickly13 as possible so we don't incur those14 costs. But until we actually get to the15 point where we can close some of our16 inefficient facilities and making them17 more efficient, we don't get the dramatic18 savings that we could have -- and to be19 able to throw 2, 3, 5, 10, 20 million20 dollars into a system. We won't get21 there until we actually see some really22 dramatic closing of facilities and/or the23 rebuilding of facilities in a more24 efficient way.25 25 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 But, yes, we have done some2 internal analysis. I know that the3 Courts -- and we've worked with the4 Courts and all of our criminal justice5 stakeholders to find out how we can6 provide more in order to make sure that7 we can target some of the people that we8 call the low-hanging fruit, get those9 folks out. The CJAB has worked well to10 identify those folks, get them out and11 get them in the programs as best we can,12 and now we're at the point where given13 our revenues and given our expenses,14 we're looking for ways of trying to get15 to that next level.16 We've done some of that17 analysis. I've done it and my office has18 done it to see where we could put19 additional dollars should it become20 available, and we're working with all of21 our partners to make sure that we'll be22 able to say this is where we're going to23 put the next million dollars if we could24 get it. And given your question, if I25 26 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 had it, would I put another million?2 Hey, you know, if we could get back to3 2008 levels of revenue, I think that we'd4 all be in a better situation.5
I hear6 you. I'm just thinking like the money7 you put in now, how much do you save down8 the road? Is it the investment for the9 future kind of argument?10 DEPUTY
Yes,11 but you have to have the revenue. Right12 now our revenues, as this Council is only13 too well aware of, our revenues are only14 now stabilizing and we are not at the15 point where we've even gotten anywhere16 close to our 2008 or even 2007 numbers as17 far as revenue coming in. So we're at a18 new normal, and what we're trying to do19 now is work with our partners to make20 sure that we are identifying ways of21 being as efficient as possible.22 Is additional dollars, could23 they be needed and could they be invested24 in this way? Absolutely, but we'd have25 27 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 to have the revenue in order to support2 it. That's what we have to deal with.3
I hear8 you. I hear you. Talking about needing9 money, on the probation officers -- I10 know a few are here today -- the present11 ones, the salary level is probably not12 commensurate with a lot of the13 surrounding counties. How much of a14 problem, in your opinion, has that been?15 JUDGE DEMBE: It's a16 significant problem. Not only do they go17 to surrounding counties, but they go to18 the state. And we're lucky to have as19 many folks who hang in there, but we do20 lose people, and you can't blame them.21
And on22 the question of if we had the money, how23 much would that be to bring them up to24 the level, say, of the surrounding25 28 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 counties? Would anybody know that2 offhand, or could they find out for us?3
Kevin Cross here.4 We have looked at some payroll5 models and figured it would cost us about6 $1.5 million for about 300 probation7 officers.8
Okay.9 All right. Thank you. Thank you very10 much.11 Thank you, Madam President.12 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:13 You're welcome.14 The Chair recognizes Councilman15 Goode.16
Thank you,17 Madam President.18 Good morning.19 JUDGE DEMBE: Good morning.20
Staying on21 the theme of probation officers, Deputy22 Mayor Gillison said in previous testimony23 that more probation officers would be a24 good investment and even today has talked25 29 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 about if he had the money, it would be a2 good investment. I'm interested in how3 you weight the investment. He said4 they've drilled it down to if they had5 another million dollars to spend where it6 would go. I'm interested in where you7 would put it in terms of electronic8 monitoring versus more probation officers9 versus increasing salaries for probation10 officers in terms of trying to retain11 them.12 JUDGE DEMBE: Well, of course,13 these are different budget14 classifications because the salaries, of15 course, are your Class 1. The electronic16 monitoring is in a different category.17 Certainly -- I guess we would18 have to split it in some way. The19 electronic monitoring is very badly20 needed, but we're at a point that makes21 me very uneasy in terms of having thinned22 down our probation staff. I think that23 we've been relatively fortunate, but24 can't count on luck.25 30 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
So in terms2 of the problem with the number of3 probation officers, to what extent is4 that a problem with turnover and how much5 would you invest in turnover in terms of6 increasing salaries or some other means7 of trying to retain probation officers?8 JUDGE DEMBE: Salary increases9 versus adding new people?10
Or a11 combination of them. How do you weight12 it?13 JUDGE DEMBE: Kevin, do you14 want to handle that one?15
I'll take it.16 Definitely increase in the17 salaries would improve our turnover rate.18 Our turnover rate generally in probation19 officers is high because of items you20 cited. So if we do that, it will help21 it --22
Oh, sure.25 31 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 So that's definitely a help,2 keeping seasoned probation officers here,3 but the other issue as far as we're4 talking about return on investment goes5 is definitely to increase the number of6 probation officers. Just because it's7 not rocket science, the more contacts a8 probation officer has with the offender,9 the better chance they have to succeed.10 So retaining the seasoned officers is11 important. As the judge was saying, we12 need a balance, kind of a mix. Even if13 we went all with electronic monitoring,14 let's put all our marbles on that ball,15 we get the biggest bang for our buck16 there as far as return on investment, yet17 all those people, even though are on18 monitors, need to be supervised as well.19 So it's kind of a snowball.20
So I guess21 the question is, if there is a request22 for an additional allocation, how much23 money is going toward electronic24 monitoring, how much money is going25 32 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 toward hiring more probation officers,2 how much money is going toward increasing3 salaries for probation officers?4
Well, if we got5 the 5.6 million that we asked for, 26 million would go to probation officers7 and --8
Can you15 break that down in terms of how much16 would go to what?17
Well, probably18 50/50. It would take 1.5 million to get19 everybody up to the salary that we would20 like them to get up to right now, but we21 also have a plan to do that incrementally22 over several years. So if we took that 223 million, we'd probably put a million into24 new hires, a million into increased25 33 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 salaries, and then, of course, that would2 be recurring, though. So we need that3 included every year. And then after4 several years, we would get everybody up5 to the salary we'd like to for retention6 purposes and then also have the number of7 staff we need to fully implement the8 model that we --9
So the rest10 of that request is for electronic11 monitoring?12
Electronic13 monitoring is not actually in the 5.614 million.15
That's correct.16 Electronic monitoring was added after our17 original letter to the Mayor back in18 January.19
It's part of the $222 million increase for counsel fees, that23 we would work with the Criminal Bar24 Association to establish new fees for25 34 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 appointed counsel.2
Expanding the3 Accelerated Misdemeanor Program, which is4 a great diversionary program that was5 started, expanding to the districts.6 That's kind of Community Court related.7 Other grant shortfalls that we have,8 which has to do with Community Court and9 some specialty programs in Municipal10 Court, and then the loss of staff we had11 from a reduction in the Clerk's budget12 when it was transferred over. I think it13 was about eight percent, ten percent,14 something like that. So we really would15 like that money back to get enough clerks16 in the courtroom to do everything.17 So, yes, we did not include the18 electronic monitoring in the 5.6.19
But there's20 2 million for probation officers equally21 split between new hires and bringing the22 pay grade up?23
That's how I would24 recommend doing it.25 35 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Thank you,4 Madam President.5 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:6 You're welcome.7 The Chair recognizes Councilman8 Green.9
Thank you,10 Madam Chair.11 Thank you very much for your12 testimony. I want to commend you on13 putting together a package that has a14 clearly defined return on investment. I15 mean, frankly, I'm not -- part of the16 problem with the discussion that we're17 having today and the debates about your18 funding is that really when the First19 Judicial District creates efficiencies in20 the system, the savings are in other21 departments.22 For example, electronic23 monitoring, whether the Administration24 agrees with $24 million or not -- I don't25 36 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 know how you reached that figure --2 there's clearly a savings in the Prison3 System as a result of having 850 more4 people not in prison and on electronic5 monitors. In fact, that's getting close6 to the number where we'd be able to close7 a prison in the City of Philadelphia.8 And so we really should be9 looking at the court system and the10 criminal justice system as sort of its11 own total aggregate number and be not12 looking at them in silos across13 departments, which is the whole purpose14 of CJAB, Criminal Justice Advisory Board.15 So just to go through, is there16 a savings within the court system or in17 any other department as a result of18 having more probation officers?19 JUDGE DEMBE: Well, yes. What20 a probation officer does is hopefully21 keep you from getting back into trouble,22 and if they keep you from getting back23 into trouble, you don't have to show up24 in court. And running a courtroom is25 37 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 like running any other expensive taxi,2 the meter is running. So every hour that3 we're not spending with them in the4 court, that's a good thing.5
Can you tell6 me where the savings are for the7 electronic monitors if we were to provide8 the funding for the electronic monitors?9 JUDGE DEMBE: It's time that10 people are not sitting in jail. It's11 time that they're not in court. It's12 taxes that they're generating because13 they're now able to go to a job and earn14 a living and pay taxes and go to the15 store and buy stuff and that kind of16 thing. It's transportation to and from17 prisons and courts. It's police18 overtime. It's sheriffs. It really does19 spread over a number of different areas20 of budgetary impact, and we're glad to be21 able to share that. I mean, we're happy22 to generate savings for other agencies.23 Through the CJAB I think we've all24 learned to share our toys and play well25 38 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 together.2
Absolutely3 true. And so with respect to the $244 million in projected savings that would5 allow you -- so like, for example,6 counsel fee increases, does that have a7 savings or is that just something we need8 to do?9 JUDGE DEMBE: That is primarily10 something we need to do. We are, I11 think, as a society going to have to have12 a conversation about the fact that even13 middle-class people are priced out of the14 courts. If I were to turn to any of you15 and say, And what happens if you get sued16 and it's in an area where the government17 doesn't provide you with a lawyer, and18 your stomach drops. And for poor people19 who through circumstance end up in the20 courts more often, it's truly injustice21 in a big way.22
So what I'd23 like to do is on Page -- I'm looking for24 your chart of savings. On of your25 39 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 testimony, you go through the return on2 investment and return on -- I guess that3 stands for equity savings as a result of4 making investments in certain areas, and5 we've talked about the cost of the6 investment. This chart doesn't break7 down the cost of the investment, say, for8 example, the Smart Courtroom Video9 Program and you're not asking for10 additional monies for all of these11 things. Some of these things are things12 we were already doing or have13 implemented.14 JUDGE DEMBE: That's correct.15
And for some16 of these things, the savings are already17 in the system.18 JUDGE DEMBE: Correct.19
And for some20 of these things, the savings are yet to21 come. And so what I'd like to ask you to22 do, if it's not too complicated, is just23 put together another chart or something24 for the Chair that breaks out what the25 40 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 cost of these programs was to implement2 and how much we've saved and how much3 we're saving on a continuing basis as a4 result of these. One of the things I'd5 be most interested in is what the6 efficiencies are in Class 100 as a7 consequence of the Prothonotary8 essentially going to a paperless system9 and what we can expect to save if we make10 that investment in the Clerk of Quarter11 Sessions Office, or I guess that's now12 under the Prothonotary too, but on the13 criminal side, because I think that's14 significant over the next five years and15 can probably be done with capital16 dollars, and we have a lot of technology17 capital dollars that are not going to be18 spent in the next year.19 So my other question is -- if20 you could just provide that to the Chair21 so we can talk about it.22 My other question --23 JUDGE DEMBE: You are so lucky24 I can't make you diagram that sentence on25 41 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the board.2
Thank you.3 It's a run-on.4 The other question is, have you5 explored whether or not electronic6 monitors can be a capital investment? Do7 you know what the expected life of an8 electronic monitor is?9 JUDGE DEMBE: Let me put10 Mr. Cross to answer both of your11 questions.12
The cost of the13 monitors are about $1,200 a piece, I14 think. So the question is, would it be a15 capital expense. Collectively it may16 fall in the category of a capital expense17 if you're getting 200 or 400 of them.18 Then there's a recurring maintenance cost19 that's also involved. So it can be20 looked at as a capital expense from that21 standpoint.22
So could you23 provide the Chair with what you think24 would be an eligible capital expense25 42 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 compared to -- and we have a lot of2 technology capital dollars that are3 unallocated -- compared to what the4 ongoing operating costs are? Because5 obviously we're talking about a one-time6 investment, and then the operating costs7 throughout the system are decreased8 significantly.9 So I'd like to hear from the10 Administration whether or not they agree11 with the savings as proposed by the FJD.12 (Witness approached witness13 table.)14
Good morning.15 Rebecca Rhynhart, Budget Director.16 We haven't seen back-up for the17 numbers that the FJD presented. We'd be18 happy to talk to them and get those19 back-up numbers to try to see where20 they've arrived at them from.21 I think that there's no doubt22 that some of these items could save the23 City money, but in terms of the level of24 those savings, we can't say at this point25 43 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 that we agree with those numbers. We'd2 have to see back-up data.3
Well, I4 mean, in part, you need to help provide5 the back-up data because the -- I would6 say that we could take the entire 67 million or most of the 6 million that is8 requested by the FJD out of the Prison9 System based on the data they've10 presented, because we'll have 850 people11 fewer in prison, there'll be 850 people12 who need healthcare, who need to be fed,13 et cetera.14 Every year I've argued the15 Prison System could have additional16 reductions. Every year the17 Administration has fought me on it, and18 every year we've saved more money in the19 Prison System than the Administration20 projected as a result of the work of CJAB21 and the entire working group, including22 the Administration and Deputy Mayor23 Gillison and other stuff, and I think24 we're at the point where we've proven we25 44 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 can do it and we need to start budgeting2 for the return on investment rather than3 waiting to see it appear.4
-- by 2 million.9 Right. So I don't think we're fighting10 you on that. I think we all are in this11 together and are happy to see some12 savings in the Prison System.13 And I think that in terms of14 the electronic -- if the electronic15 monitors for 800 people, we could do the16 analysis. I mean, I think we could do17 the analysis to see how much it would18 save, how many days.19
And just to be21 clear, though, the electronic monitoring22 wasn't part of the original request to23 the Mayor for the budget. So we're happy24 to talk to FJD about it and look at it,25 45 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 but it's not something that was requested2 in the original request to the Mayor and3 rejected. So we're happy to work with4 them on it.5
Okay. Well,6 I'm not -- nobody is accusing anybody of7 having paid attention or not paid8 attention.9
The point12 is, can we agree that if we can actually13 identify 6 million in savings in other14 places in the current year or the next15 year, because we're looking at what we16 need in the Five Year Plan, that the17 Administration will agree to provide the18 additional probation officers, agree to19 electronic monitoring and the other20 things the Courts agrees? If we can21 agree on what the savings will be, is22 there any reason you would object to23 putting those dollars back -- to putting24 the dollars saved elsewhere into FJD so25 46 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 we can realize these savings and make the2 system more efficient?3
I think we can4 agree to discuss it, and I don't think I5 would say at this point that I can6 definitely agree to give an exact dollar7 amount if the savings are there. I think8 we can agree --9
So you're10 saying if the Administration agrees that11 the savings will more than equal the12 cost, you won't say that we want to make13 the investment?14
I am saying that15 we will discuss it. Just like, for16 example, that we'll talk about the DA,17 we've given some extra money to the DA.18 We've seen some savings that they've made19 in some areas. In the Courts we put $2.420 million additional in the proposed budget21 for parole officers to replace stimulus22 money going away. We put a million23 dollars in for counsel and juror fees.24 We are working on giving funding. We25 47 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 don't have an indefinite amount of money,2 so --3
That's the4 one part of the discussion that Deputy5 Mayor Gillison made and that you're6 making that I don't understand. If we7 agree that the savings will appear, then8 we have the money, because we're not9 talking about spending it all on dollar10 one from cash in the bank account. It's11 over the course of a year or two years.12
If we all agree13 that there are definite savings, it's14 definitely worth discussing sharing a15 portion of that. I agree with that.16
Right.20 Okay.21 That's all I have, Madam22 President.23 Thank you very much. Thank you24 for your testimony.25 48 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Thank you,4 Madam President.5 JUDGE DEMBE: If I may before6 we move on. In fairness to the City,7 this was a project where the numbers were8 developed later, but we do have the data,9 which we will gladly share. Thank you.10 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:11 Councilman Clarke.12
Thank you,13 Madam President.14 Good morning.15 JUDGE DEMBE: Good morning.16
I want to17 concur with all of my colleagues about18 the wonderful job that you all are doing19 working with the Administration and20 reducing the prison population and coming21 up with other creative ideas.22 I want to go on a little23 different direction as it relates to24 community service. I'm glad to see that25 49 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 you're expanding Community Court and2 other such type programs. What's the3 criteria associated with an individual4 being able to be given court-mandated5 community service?6 JUDGE DEMBE: There really is7 nothing formal in the law. So while8 primarily we use it for nuisance-level9 crimes, I mean, some kid has been doing10 graffiti, sure you're going to send him11 to scrubbing something, that kind of12 thing, but judges hearing serious13 felonies can and do include community14 service when they think it will make an15 impact on the community and/or on the16 offender. So in terms of the court's17 ability to use it, we have a lot of18 flexibility.19
Okay.20 Well, one, I anticipate given this push21 towards changes in terms of sentencing as22 opposed to sending a person directly to23 jail wherever possible given the24 expansion of these other programs, we25 50 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 will probably have more people that could2 be eligible for Community Court -- I'm3 sorry; community service designation.4 JUDGE DEMBE: Yes. Again, we5 are on the cusp of a larger societal6 change. We've been using punishment as7 our primary form of law enforcement ever8 since the Germanic tribes brought it to9 European civilization about 1,500 years10 ago, and we refuse to let go of the idea11 that it's not working very well and that12 doing more of it will change that, and13 people are beginning very slowly to see14 that, to see the prisons are more15 destructive than constructive, and that16 while we all agree there is a very small17 population of people who should never be18 allowed to roam the streets, it's really19 nowhere near as large as we have led to20 believe and that the punishment really21 just destroys families, destroys the22 ability to earn a living. And even for23 people who have committed things that we24 put in the category of violent crime, I25 51 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 think there is much more to be done in2 terms of rehabilitation and supervising3 ways for them to integrate into the4 fabric of their community.5 Europe, if you look at Europe,6 they have long used a very, very7 different model. A three- or four-year8 prison sentence is a long sentence there.9 In Ireland if you go to jail, you go home10 for Easter and Christmas, and after a11 while you have vacations with your12 family, an active effort to keep you13 involved in a network of family, because14 at bottom, it's more likely to be your15 mother, your grandfather, your uncle,16 your aunt, not your probation officer,17 who is going to see you hanging with the18 wrong people, see you getting ready to do19 something stupid and is likely to20 intervene if you're part of the family21 and community network.22
All right.23 I actually agree with you to a large24 extent from the philosophical25 52 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 perspective. Let me shift to change the2 focus of my line of questioning, still on3 community services but more on the4 operational side, because the reality is5 that some of the challenges that -- I can6 speak personally from the district I7 represent and I know Councilwoman Sanchez8 and a couple of other districts have some9 significant challenges as it relates to10 your aforementioned graffiti, vacant11 lots, some of the other things that we12 just don't have the person power13 currently within our budget and staffing14 levels to deal with. And where we've15 applied community service, these16 individuals are not as good as our City17 workers or our other departments in terms18 of remediating some of those issues, but19 they do help. We send some guys out to20 clean a vacant lot, it's not as neatly21 manicured as the professionals, but it22 provides a relief.23 So I guess my question that24 from an operational perspective is, one,25 53 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 how many people -- let me start with,2 one, is there a possibility -- or maybe3 you don't want to take that flexibility4 away from the judge -- to have some sense5 of guidelines that people have a sense6 that they're probably going to get7 community service, and that may or may8 not be a good thing, or if we can have9 some levels that we can count on in terms10 of people who are actually going to11 provide community service in a12 neighborhood to help supplement the lack13 of our workforce. And I hate that it's14 at that level, but the reality is that we15 just simply don't have enough people in16 our workforce to deal with some of these17 issues. And when I talk to some of these18 young guys, because I see them out in the19 neighborhood and I walk over -- I usually20 know the crew leader, Manny Ortiz, that21 oversees that operation -- they actually22 say, You know what, when I'm done with23 all of my sentencing issues, I'd like to24 get a job with a land care company. So25 54 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 they do get a sense of work, you know.2 Do you think it would make more3 sense if we had a more structured4 program, one that would give some5 structure to that individual and possibly6 some long-term issues as it relates to7 them becoming a productive citizen and,8 two, providing significant assistance to9 the City's ability to fight blight in10 communities?11 I know that was a very long12 question. I apologize for that.13 JUDGE DEMBE: We'll have you14 diagramming sentences, too.15 It's something that I would16 like to sit down and talk with you about,17 and it's a conversation that Judge18 Neifield from the Municipal Court should19 be a part of it as well, because most of20 the people who are going to be impacted21 by that are going through Municipal22 Court, not all of them but certainly a23 large number of them, and it will have24 to, I think, be a balancing of the25 55 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 interests of the unions who represent the2 people who get paid to do similar work.3 It will have to work out supervision4 mechanisms. And sentencing is a state5 law issue. It's not something that we6 can really enact locally, but what we can7 do if we build a more structured program8 is educate the judges, because they are9 profoundly aware of the senselessness of10 a lot of the incarceration, so I think11 we'd get a lot of interest. But I think12 we're going to need to talk about it,13 because it's one of these areas that I14 just know will trigger the law of15 unintended consequences. So we'll have16 to figure out as many of those potential17 obstacles as we can in advance. So if18 that's all right with you, we can set up19 a meeting.20
Oh,21 absolutely. Absolutely. I just think22 that we need to get a little more23 creative. I would actually like to see24 some of these individuals start a25 56 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 business, land care business. We2 actually had a conference a couple of3 weeks ago. Councilman Goode and a number4 of other Councilmembers that were here5 actually participated in the conference,6 and there were individuals there who had7 challenges in their life as it relates8 to -- I hate to use the term9 "ex-offenders," but they came in talking10 about starting a business.11 So I think that realistically12 we need to look at that as a significant13 option, because a lot of these14 individuals, they're just not going to15 get the traditional job because of the16 skill-set associated with a lot of those17 jobs, but they do have some abilities as18 it relates to being entrepreneurial. So19 wherever possible, if we can kind of20 merge all of those things and utilizing21 community sentencing to not just be a22 sentence but also a path towards doing23 something with their life educationally24 or from an entrepreneurial perspective.25 57 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 JUDGE DEMBE: I would agree,2 and what pops to mind right away is, you3 not only have to teach people to do the4 work itself and the things like showing5 up on time and being there every day and6 all that kind of thing, but as many of us7 know, starting a small business, it's not8 so easy. So we have to develop that kind9 of training as a second step once people10 have a skill.11
I agree.12 It's actually -- it's difficult as it is13 for some people to actually get a job,14 you know. It's that difficult out here15 now.16 Okay. Thank you. One other17 issue that -- I want to say I appreciate18 your office working with us as it relates19 to the impending state -- well, actually,20 the state authorization of enhanced21 blight removal issues, and I want to22 thank you for the meetings that we've23 had. The City has indicated now that24 given the enhanced powers, not25 58 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 necessarily directly tied to that, but2 they're going to start ramping up some of3 these enforcement issues, and once the --4 I guess it's three more months, we will5 be in a position to take advantage of the6 state authorization to start attaching7 assets and all of the other things8 associated with the state legislation.9 Can you give me a sense of --10 because I know in our conversation, there11 were some things that you already had in12 place and possible direction we will go13 once this thing is fully implemented.14 JUDGE DEMBE: Now that we're15 getting this close, I think it's probably16 time for me to dump one more task on17 Dominic Rossi, our legal wizard, kind of18 putting together a training manual for19 the judges and the lawyers and time for20 us to talk perhaps -- either do it21 ourselves or talk to PBI about doing a22 CLE for lawyers to get involved in this,23 and then probably you'd be more effective24 in setting up some sort of community25 59 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 education for people who want to know how2 to get involved in these things without3 hiring lawyers. So we're getting to that4 point now, so I think that's where we go5 next.6
It's7 coming, yeah.8 JUDGE DEMBE: That's exciting.9 That's a good one.10
Very much11 so. Thank you very much.12 Thank you, Madam President.13 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:14 You're welcome.15 The Chair recognizes16 Councilwoman Tasco.17
Thank you18 very much. I'd just like to say that19 being here for a number of years, it's20 gratifying to know that you all are very21 responsive to a number of issues that22 have been raised through the years in23 terms of how to deal with the folk who24 come through your jurisdiction and the25 60 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 innovative programs that you've2 implemented and that you're sensitive to3 what's going on and try to find ways to4 address issues that are raised. So5 you're doing a good job and I appreciate6 it.7 JUDGE DEMBE: Thank you.8
Thank you.9 Thank you, Madam President.10 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:11 You're welcome.12 The Chair recognizes13 Councilwoman Blackwell.14
Thank15 you, Madam President.16 Good morning, all.17 JUDGE DEMBE: Good morning.18
We19 certainly agree with the comments, the20 statements made by Councilman Green with21 regard to money for ankle bracelets or22 other monitoring devices that will -- we23 believe in the end it has to save money.24 We've got to do something to keep --25 61 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 whether we call it a capital investment2 or however we deal with it, we certainly3 agree that we need to make that happen4 and look forward to you getting back to5 the President on that.6 Another issue is, we've been7 having a lot of complaints in our office8 about ex-offenders who get out of prison,9 they're worried about having to go back10 because they owe court costs, 4,000,11 5,000, one as high as $15,000.12 What happens when you have13 ex-offenders who are out who are not14 employed and who are worried about going15 back because they can't pay court fines16 that they have accrued before they got17 there?18 JUDGE DEMBE: No one goes to19 jail simply for being unable to pay.20 Now, if you've got the money and you21 don't pay, you can go to jail. We've all22 heard the stories about the23 multi-millionaires who squirrel their24 money away and that kind of thing.25 62 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 That's not the population that we're2 dealing with. We put people --3 COUNCILWOMAN BLACKWELL:4 Obviously not.5 JUDGE DEMBE: I keep looking,6 though.7 We put people on a very minimal8 payment plan. And if you come in and9 convince us that you can't afford cable10 TV and those aren't new sneakers you're11 wearing and you haven't got a cell phone12 plan, then maybe we'll cut it down even13 further, but most people can make a small14 minimum payment toward the eventual15 satisfaction of the amount. And my16 thought is, they're buying lottery17 tickets, too, so maybe we'll all get18 lucky when they hit the big one.19 We don't put people in jail for20 that. We don't have cells to waste on21 that, frankly, but we do expect people to22 come up with the money.23
All24 right. May we call you if we have25 63 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 problems with these clients?2 JUDGE DEMBE: You know where to3 find me.4
Thank7 you. Thank you.8 My last question is -- Madam9 President, I was late coming to this10 meeting because I was at a meeting with11 the DA's Office, with Nationality12 Services Center, the Chairman of the13 Mayor's Commission on African and14 Caribbean Immigrant Affairs, Stan15 Straughter, and a few others about the16 whole issue of immigrants being jailed17 even for misdemeanors. When they're18 picked up and they find out they're19 immigrants, they get caught in a20 deportation system that hurts them that21 they don't need to be in. It is this22 city, and we've all heard the Mayor and23 we've all heard the Police Commissioner24 say that we're not involved in trying to25 64 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 deport. We don't ask people their2 immigration status if they're stopped.3 But we're finding it is happening too4 many times across the board, and we are5 involved in trying to create a whole6 program where we pull everybody together7 to try to deal with this issue.8 So I bring it to you with hopes9 that -- we didn't have the Courts in our10 meeting. So we had our first big11 meeting, but we did not involve the12 Courts, which we should have, because13 everyone has a role, and as part of this14 pars issue and where there's an MOU sign.15 So we would certainly ask for16 your help to try to deal with this issue17 so we don't clog the system, charge more18 money and have families broken up when19 people -- we're finding that people are20 being arrested and they're deported21 before cases are even resolved or if22 they're dropped or they're found not23 guilty or for misdemeanors, and we're24 having a big issue with that. In fact,25 65 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 they said that Philadelphia is the sixth2 highest city in the country for deporting3 people who should not be deported when4 they find out that for one reason or5 another they should not have been in the6 system, either they're cleared, either7 their case was dropped or some such8 issue. So we want to ask your advice,9 your counsel and your assistance in this10 area.11 JUDGE DEMBE: I'm not sure that12 the state courts do have very much of a13 role. Deportation is, of course, a14 federal issue, and whether or not when15 people are picked up if they are found16 guilty, if the feds find out about it and17 they're here illegally, current national18 policy seems to be to throw them out of19 the country.20
But21 these are cases where the case isn't even22 heard and in the MOU Marsha Neifield23 signed it. So somehow our courts deal24 with it. And these are cases where25 66 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 they're not even resolved. They arrest2 the person and they stick them on a track3 to deport them. It's not a person found4 guilty of some federal crime.5 JUDGE DEMBE: I agree, but it6 is apparently national --7
But if8 Marsha Neifield signed an MOU, it seems9 to me that the Courts are involved in the10 discussion.11 JUDGE DEMBE: We're involved in12 the discussion, but there is very little13 that we can do about national policy.14 And as we all know, when people are15 running for offices and the federal16 level, they get into these silly debates17 about somehow conflating illegal18 immigration with terrorism, and it's a19 nonsense, but it does seem to involve a20 fear factor that the voters respond to.21 It's a shame. We're not handling it very22 well.23
Well,24 my last statement will be, I'll read the25 67 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 first line of this MOU. The extension of2 End-User License Agreement, EULA, entered3 into between the City of Philadelphia as4 more fully identified, licensor, and the5 Department of Homeland Security and6 Custom Enforcement is effective as7 provided herein. And they list dates.8 It's signed by David C. Lawrence, Court9 Administrator; John Gaittens, Deputy10 Commissioner, Police Department; Joseph11 McGettigan, First Assistant DA. They're12 all local people.13 JUDGE DEMBE: Yes, but the feds14 can still get the immigration data15 through another route. We're not going16 out of our way to help them, but they can17 nonetheless get the information with or18 without them.19
I just20 thought there may be some way we could21 work together. I'm disappointed that you22 don't seem willing. My goodness, these23 are mothers and fathers. Because our24 Commission represents 38 countries in25 68 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Africa and the Caribbean. These are2 people who are just trying to find their3 way as the rest of us are who live here4 and who came here historically one way or5 another. I just thought it would be a6 good way -- I was going to call President7 Judge Neifield, but I thought there might8 be some way that you would be interested9 in it, but obviously I made a mistake.10 Thank you, Madam President.11 JUDGE DEMBE: Councilwoman, I12 think I did not speak clearly. We're not13 in disagreement here. I certainly know14 that my people didn't go through15 immigration when they got here. I'm just16 saying that there's a limit to what the17 state court system can do. We'll be glad18 to be involved in the discussions and,19 you know, I support your goals. I think20 we all do, but I think we are limited by21 a fairly wrong-headed federal policy at22 this point.23
Thank24 you, Madam President.25 69 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:2 You're welcome.3 The Chair recognizes4 Councilwoman Sanchez.5
Thank6 you, Madam President.7 Thank you. Good morning. I8 want to talk a little bit about your9 identified shortfalls; in particular,10 those related to juvenile offenders and11 the fact that our juvenile offenders12 grant will not be renewed by the13 Governor. You put that number at14 $450,000 for the Youth Violence Reduction15 Program.16 Can you tell me if in fact we17 were not to fill this, what would18 happen -- tell me what's happening now,19 because this is such an important20 program. I can't emphasize how much.21 And if we did not get the money, what22 happens to juveniles?23 JUDGE DEMBE: We'll have more24 dead children, is what it comes down to.25 70 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 These are young people who are in danger2 of being victims and of being offenders3 and making other children victims. So we4 will have an increase in dead children on5 our streets.6
How many7 young people are being served through8 this program now?9 JUDGE DEMBE: It is in the10 Mayor's proposed budget.11
Oh, it12 is in the Mayor's proposed budget? Okay.13 Because you have it listed as going to be14 cut.15 DEPUTY
Can you18 please clarify. Thank you.19 (Witness approached witness20 table.)21 DEPUTY
Everett22 Gillison, Deputy Mayor for Public Safety.23 It's not in the Courts' budget24 because in the Courts' budget, it was a25 71 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 grant. The grant was not renewed from2 the feds, but the Mayor felt that it was3 needed, so we fully funded it through a4 grant through the MDO. So it actually5 comes out of my office to fully fund the6 YVRP program. So we put it somewhere7 close to $1.5 million.8
Okay.9 All right. This is misleading, so thank10 you for that clarification. Very11 important for me.12 You talked about the counsel13 fee. Can you tell me where this counsel14 fee is going to go? Is that to the15 Defender's Association?16 JUDGE DEMBE: No. What happens17 is that very often somebody is arrested18 and the Defender's Office cannot19 represent them, either they represent20 somebody else in the matter or for some21 reason there's a conflict. So this is22 conflict counsel.23
These24 are only cases that are not conflict, not25 72 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 in lieu of supporting the Defender's2 Association?3 JUDGE DEMBE: Correct, ma'am.4
That's5 an important clarification for me.6 I wanted to talk about -- in7 your testimony we've been talking about8 electronic monitoring, and you talked9 about a $4.5 million investment will10 generate $24.2 million in savings. Is11 that over the course of two years or is12 that a one-year? Is there a way we can13 begin to initiate this in a revenue14 neutral or an expense neutral?15
We tried to look at16 two scenarios of trying to put this17 together, one doing 800 units all at18 once, and that would cost us about $4.519 million. We also understand that it may20 take some incremental time to get this up21 and running, and we did do a two-year22 plan of 400 units a year over two years,23 and we've estimated that to be also24 around $4.5 million. We will transmit to25 73 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Council President an analysis of our2 revenue costs, our revenues and costs and3 you'll be able to take a look at that.4
I5 appreciate that. And I wanted to -- I6 know Councilman Clarke left the room. I7 know he was talking about some of the8 community service, and I thought it was9 important to note, I know President Judge10 Neifield has been very aggressive in11 trying to find alternative sentencing,12 and I know she's reached out to me in13 terms of getting some of our non-profits14 to be partners and willing to take some15 of these young people, and I think that's16 a good step and a model that we should17 look at as we look at expanding that and18 supporting and obviously seeking her19 advice around how do we get our community20 to become better partners in allowing us21 to place juveniles and other folks to do22 their community service.23 So I just want -- I'm not sure24 my colleague was aware of that, but I25 74 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 know that there are steps being taken and2 Judge Neifield is working on this3 initiative. It's one that I support and4 will continue to support and support its5 expansion, because just as Councilman6 Clarke mentioned, having those options --7 I do agree with him that if in fact that8 is a model that's working that Judge9 Neifield is doing, it's something that10 the entire court system needs to look at11 and figure out how we could keep pushing12 that forward. Again, a lot of it is13 getting external partners before we ask14 City departments to also take on that15 charge. It's very important. So I just16 wanted to acknowledge that.17 We talked about the Clerk of18 Quarter Sessions and the funding of19 additional -- to get back the additional20 funding on the two reductions. I don't21 see in your testimony what efficiencies22 that will get us going back to will it23 pay for itself. You're asking to24 reinstate the $548,000. What would that25 75 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 do?2
We didn't state it3 in the testimony, but what it would do is4 allow us -- one thing is to increase5 revenue, increase collection revenue in6 criminal cases. It will also allow us to7 sufficiently staff courtrooms, so all the8 documents, all the information is done9 timely. As was mentioned earlier, some10 of the information that may be in some of11 our systems may not be up to date as12 timely as it should be. It could even13 cause some deportation issues at times.14 We don't want that to happen. So quality15 controls, efficiencies, hard to put a16 dollar number on that, but also increased17 revenue, assessing the revenue and18 collecting and accounting for and moving19 the money where it should be is --20
One of21 the concerns I've heard from some of the22 clerks has been that they're assigned to23 multiple courtrooms. How many courtrooms24 are they assigned to? That's one of the25 76 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 biggest complaints that I've gotten from2 the transition.3 JUDGE DEMBE: I don't blame4 them. I have always believed that when a5 court is open and operating, there should6 be at least one clerk there at all times,7 and in some very busy rooms where there's8 an enormous amount of data entry that has9 to be done, we need at least two. So I'm10 on board 100 percent with that.11 Right now we are thinner than12 we should be, because at any given time,13 you've got people who are sick, you've14 got people who are out on FMLA, you've15 got people on vacation, and we now have16 people who are out on a regular basis17 because we are training them18 aggressively, and the technology that is19 going to be changing even more so, that20 that will continue to be part of the21 process.22 The clerks, for instance, along23 with everybody else who spends time in24 criminal courtrooms, is going to be25 77 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 trained on how to spot witness and victim2 intimidation while it's happening in the3 courtroom and be that extra set of eyes4 and ears that can report to the judge and5 the sheriff. So there are all these6 issues and responsibilities, and I have7 to say they have responded terrifically.8 The training is being done by folks9 in-house, and the experienced clerks have10 really stepped up to help the new ones.11 But I agree that clerks should12 not have to move from room to room.13 Every time you do that, it's like coming14 in on the middle of somebody's story. It15 takes you a while to figure out who is16 talking about who and what the back story17 is, and in a courtroom where you need18 very accurate data entry, that's a bad19 thing.20
Well,21 thank you very much. Clearly we see the22 improvements, and having CJAB and23 obviously Deputy Mayor Gillison on this,24 we've seen tremendous improvements on the25 78 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 prison and court side. So I do want to2 congratulate you.3 I'm very happy to see your4 demographic makeup, although I will have5 to note that Hispanic and Latinos,6 because I'm concerned about language7 access, is still at four percent. So I8 strongly encourage you if there are any9 enhancements to staffing, Hispanics now10 make up 12 percent of the population, so11 that number could clearly use great12 improvement.13 JUDGE DEMBE: Okay.14
So I15 just want to put that on the record.16 Thank you.17 Thank you, Madam Chair.18 JUDGE DEMBE: Thank you.19 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:20 You're welcome.21 The Chair recognizes Councilman22 Green.23
Thank you,24 Madam Chair. I actually have no more25 79 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 questions. It's been covered by2 everybody else. Thank you.3
Are4 there any other questions by members of5 the Committee?6 (No response.)7 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:8 Seeing no one, thank you very much.9 We've learned a great deal from you10 today.11 JUDGE DEMBE: Thank you. And I12 just want to say that this is the last13 round of budget hearings with some14 people, including one of my heroes. I'll15 be sorry to see those changes, although I16 look forward to working with the new17 folks who will be coming in.18
Thank22 you very much.23 MR. McPHERSON: The Defender24 Association is next.25 80 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 (Witnesses approached witness2 table.)3
Good4 afternoon. Welcome. Please identify5 yourself for the record and proceed with6 your testimony.7
Good morning,8 Council President. Pleasure to see you9 again.10
I'm Ellen13 Greenlee, G-R-E-E-N-L-E-E, Chief Defender14 of the Defender Association of15 Philadelphia. With me today are Charles16 A. 12 The court systems in13 Philadelphia cannot function without the14 active participation of the attorneys,15 social service advocates, investigators16 and support staff who are the Defender17 Association of Philadelphia. 15 I realize obviously that this16 is a large request in these straightened17 economic times, and we do not make it18 lightly. We have struggled through19 budget cuts over the last three years20 with the hiring freeze, with necessary21 cuts to our benefits package, and22 postponing equipment and computer23 upgrades and, of course, no salary24 increases for staff, all of whose25 83 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 salaries are well below those of City2 employees, the District Attorney and the3 City Solicitor. 7 In the last year since we8 appeared before you, we kept the promise9 that Mr. Cunningham and I made to provide10 representation in all forums with no11 interruption, including the Zone Court,12 which opened in November 2010 and created13 11 unfunded court assignment slots for14 Defender attorneys, though we were15 promised that the Zone Court would16 require no additional staff from us. 9 To be fully staffed to cover10 all court assignments, we need funding11 for 250 attorneys, not the 228 currently12 funded over the last several years. In13 2008, we advised the Budget Director and14 Court Administration that we needed 1615 additional attorney positions due to16 increased workload in Criminal Mental17 Health, in Juvenile, in the Felony Waiver18 Program, Homicide, Appeals and Major19 Trials. 3 If the additional attorney4 positions are not funded; that is, the5 250, we will have to reduce our attorney6 number to the funded level, which is 228,7 and begin to withdraw from excess cases8 and courtrooms. 20 The Defender Association is and21 always has been a team player. Witness22 the fact that through all this crisis23 over the last three to four years, we24 have continued to staff all assignments25 86 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 at great cost to us and to our staff. 6 Thank you for your time and7 consideration. 12
Thank13 you very much.14 As I understand it, the15 additional monies being requested, would16 that include enough money for you to be17 able to hire additional attorneys?18
So20 how many additional attorneys would you21 be able to hire?22
Well, at the23 present time, we're staffed at 239. In24 order to get to 250, we would need to25 87 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 hire 11, but the difference that we're2 talking about is that we are funded for3 228. We have been able to hire those4 additional 11 only because we have not5 filled vacant social work and6 administrative positions. So we've7 diverted funding that should go to those8 positions to making sure that we have9 sufficient attorneys to staff all10 courtroom assignments.11
And12 your request was made to the13 Administration?14
Yes. We have15 over the last several months and in fact16 last week we had a meeting with Deputy17 Mayor Gillison and with the Budget18 Director, Rebecca Rhynhart, where we19 presented our request, and I guess one20 could say they've taken it under21 advisement.22
I'm23 sure that City Council will certainly be24 very much willing to look into this and25 88 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 also talk to the Budget Director.2
Thank4 you very much.5 Are there any questions?6 (No response.)7
Thank you.10 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:11 You've been very patient.12
We don't know13 whether to be happy or sad. Thank you,14 Council President, and our very best15 wishes to you.16
Thank17 you so much.18 We will now stand in recess19 until 1:15. Thank you very much.20 (Short recess.)21
Good22 afternoon. This is a continued public23 hearing of the Committee of the Whole.24 Our first witness?25 89 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 MR. McPHERSON: District2 Attorney's Office.3
Fine.8 Thank you.9 Please identify yourself and10 proceed with your testimony.11
Thank you. And12 if it pleases the President of City13 Council, I am Seth Williams and I have14 the pleasure and distinction of being the15 District Attorney for the City and County16 of Philadelphia.17 Madam President and members of18 Council, I am pleased to be joined today19 by what appears to be close to 20 members20 of my staff, and I'm very thankful for21 their collective hard work in preparing22 the documents from which I will be giving23 my testimony today. So I would ask that24 you attribute to them any of your praise25 90 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 for anything that I do that is correct2 and right today and assign blame to me3 for any inaccuracies or errors.4 I am joined to my right is5 Mr. Ed McCann, who is the Deputy of our6 Trial Division, and to my left is7 Mr. Greg Rowe, who is the Chief of our8 Legislation and Policy Unit.9 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:10 Welcome.11
I've submitted,12 Madam President, 13 pages of testimony,13 along with that three graphs, charts, and14 a map. I would ask that that be15 submitted into the official record of16 today's testimony. With your permission,17 I will be giving just a brief summary of18 said testimony.19
And, Madam22 President, I have spoken with your23 stenographer and I've promised that I24 will try to speak as slowly as possible.25 91 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:2 Great.3
Madam President,4 just one year ago I sat here as the newly5 elected District Attorney of Philadelphia6 on my 100th day in office, and I outlined7 my goals for improving the delivery of8 justice and making Philadelphia safer. I9 spoke about the unacceptable number of10 cases that were dismissed, the feeling of11 helplessness among victims and witnesses,12 the need to be smart on crime and the13 necessity of changing the way the14 District Attorney's Office does business.15 I am pleased to report today16 that we are being smarter on crime and17 are beginning to address the systemic18 problems in the Philadelphia criminal19 justice system. Justice as a whole is no20 longer delayed, denied or dismissed.21 More cases are decided on the evidence,22 and cases are proceeding faster through23 the system. What is particularly24 encouraging is that so many of our25 92 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 achievements have been done in a2 collaborative manner, and for that, I3 must thank Mayor Nutter, Deputy Mayor4 Gillison, Commissioner Ramsey and my5 great partner, Judges Dembe and Neifield6 and the entire First Judicial District,7 as well as all of our members of the8 Criminal Justice Advisory Board. I'd9 also like to thank Councilwoman Donna10 Reed Miller and all the members of the11 Public Safety Committee for their12 assistance and the interaction we've had13 throughout the year.14 Madam President, there is an15 added benefit to what we are beginning to16 accomplish. Much of what we have done17 has also saved the City money. In other18 words, we have made changes that will19 improve public safety and, as a20 collateral consequence, save precious21 taxpayer dollars. In just one year and a22 few months, we have done so much. I23 would like to discuss with you our major24 initiatives and accomplishments.25 93 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 And, Madam President, as I2 stated at the onset, it's my goal for us3 to be smart on crime and not just talk4 tough. And what does that mean? Being5 smart on crime doesn't mean being soft on6 criminals. It means that we do all that7 we can to prevent crime. Being smart on8 crime means that we do all that we can to9 better serve victims so they can heal and10 not be re-traumatized by our criminal11 justice system. And being smart on crime12 means that we do all that we can to13 reduce recidivism, the rate of people14 getting arrested over and over and over15 again.16 Now, our major accomplishments17 and the ones that I will outline today18 could not have been implemented or19 sustained without the changes to our20 Charging Unit. So, Madam President, as21 I'm sure you will remember from your days22 when you first started working for the23 City, when you worked for the District24 Attorney's Office --25 94 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
-- the Charging4 Unit is where it all begins, and when I5 took over, our Charging Unit had five6 staff members, five Assistant District7 Attorneys. And the responsibility of8 charging is that we have to determine who9 should be charged, what the appropriate10 charges are. 2 Again, we started that on the3 first day. 12 The second thing I'd like to13 address, Madam President, is14 community-based prosecution and how we've15 transformed the delivery of criminal16 justice. We work very closely with17 members of our judiciary, including Chief18 Justice Castille, Justice McCaffrey and19 President Judge Dembe. Community-based20 prosecution will serve as the linchpin21 for improving public safety and fostering22 good community relations, and that's very23 important to understand. Philadelphians24 need to understand that the criminal25 96 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 justice system is fair to everyone. I2 think we're trying to do that when they3 see that we're prosecuting both doctors4 and priests and police. No matter who5 you are, no matter what your last name is6 or who your uncle was, we're going to7 have the same standard of justice for8 everyone. 24 So if you don't mind, I have --25 97 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 my first chart is actually a map of the2 City of Philadelphia, and it shows, it3 depicts by color, Madam President, the4 six police divisions. Each division is5 further broken down into either four or6 three police districts. So now we call7 these -- these are geographic zones. And8 when I was a young Assistant District9 Attorney, we were, for the most part, all10 assigned to courtrooms and we got our11 cases the night before, and the cases in12 those courtrooms came from all over the13 City. And the young DAs did the best14 they could, almost working on one of15 Mr. 21 And that led to one of the problems that22 we saw, and that was demonstrated by the23 reports, great work of the Philadelphia24 Inquirer. 4 While I recognize it's not the5 cure to cancer, I really thought from a6 very young age at the DA's Office that7 assigning DAs more vertically where they8 would handle more of the cases from start9 to finish themselves and also assign them10 geographically to that goal would really11 make them better law enforcement12 attorneys, would make them more13 accountable to the public, because they14 would understand the community. 3 Each zone is located on a4 specific floor in the Criminal Justice5 Center. So now all of the police or all6 of the detectives from the Southwest7 Division or the Northwest Division only8 report to that one floor. We're finding9 this is helping expedite cases through10 the system. 13 It's also very important that14 more cases, especially shootings, are15 being handled from the beginning of the16 process by the same prosecutors. This is17 building bridges to neighborhoods, and18 that the DAs are going out and are19 meeting with the community groups, the20 clergy, the business leaders and really21 making connections with those people that22 we serve. 11 Being smart on crime recognizes12 that it is not the severity of punishment13 that changes behavior. 16 I would now like to just17 briefly outline three programs that we18 have initiated. They're making a19 dramatic impact. 21 This program, Madam President, is known22 as Small Amounts of Marijuana program, or23 SAM. 2 By statute, cases that are less than 303 grams of marijuana, after we have done4 everything to get the cases ready, paid5 for defense counsel, provide discovery to6 the attorney, analyze the drugs in7 question, paid for the police overtime8 hanging outside of the court or9 testifying, after doing all of that,10 we're spending thousands of dollars, for11 when a person probably possesses about12 $10 worth of marijuana. It was just a13 woefully inefficient system for that, if14 we even got to a guilty verdict.
17 So what we've done is taken18 those cases out of Misdemeanor Court,19 where we need to be using more of our20 resources for most serious cases in the21 preliminary hearings for the shootings22 and the robberies. 3 We expect about 4,600 cases per4 year to be diverted out of Misdemeanor5 Court into the SAM program. The program6 is faster, cheaper and yields more7 significant penalties. 13 Second is our AMP program,14 Accelerated Misdemeanor Program. So we15 do not stop with minor marijuana cases in16 our effort to rationalize the treatment17 of less serious offenses. With the18 cooperation of Judge Neifield, we19 implemented the AMP program that20 accelerates the appropriate misdemeanor21 cases for diversion into community22 service. This ensures swift and certain23 punishment and improves efficiencies in24 our system. The program is based on a25 103 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 community court model we observed in2 Brooklyn last year. Our Charging Unit3 identifies and diverts appropriate4 misdemeanors and ensures offenders do not5 have records of violence. The Charging6 Unit recommends a period of community7 service, and if the defendant accepts the8 program and completes it successfully,9 then the case is closed. In just the10 first four months of this year, 70011 offenders were diverted. 13 Thirdly, assessing cases early14 and offering appropriate plea offers. In15 conjunction with court administration, I16 understand that my very good friend and17 former member of my Army Reserve Unit,18 David Wasson, gave a presentation19 earlier. I don't have Josh Groban music20 to share with you, Madam President, but21 we worked with them, and I understand22 Mr. Lancellotti is here. I have to thank23 them for the SMART program, which is24 Strategic Management ARC Readiness and25 104 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Trial. 9 So the process is that after a10 felony is held for court, the ADA in the11 appropriate SMART room reviews each case12 prior to arraignment, and if appropriate,13 the ADA offers a one-time plea offer. If14 the defendant rejects, the case will go15 to trial. This new approach to cases16 allows us to review and resolve cases17 that previously would have languished at18 the trial level in an already overcrowded19 system. Smart on crime, because it20 increases the swiftness and certainty of21 punishment, not the severity but the22 certainty. 25 105 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 I would next like to talk about2 removing the roadblocks to victims and3 witness testimony, changes at the4 preliminary hearing. As a result of5 sitting down and talking with members of6 our Commonwealth Supreme Court, working7 with members of CJAB, Judge Dembe and8 Judge Neifield, we've made some9 significant changes to the manner in10 which preliminary hearings are11 implemented. We no longer require the12 presence of civilian witnesses at13 preliminary hearings in certain14 non-violent property crimes. If the15 victim is just to come give ownership and16 non-permission testimony to say that was17 my gutter or downspout that that18 defendant took, they don't have to come19 and say that. The police officer can20 come and testify they saw this guy21 wheeling a shopping cart down the street22 that had the person's downspout in it and23 that it had been reported stolen. 8 We've also changed many other9 things. 17 Fewer cases are being18 dismissed. More cases receive a19 disposition on their merits, and cases20 are proceeding faster. We no longer rely21 on mere anecdote. 3 Again, I'm no mathematician. I like to4 remind people that I failed Algebra 2 at5 Central High School, but some very smart6 people that are in this room helped me7 put together all of the charts that we8 have.
And this first one reflects that9 we're having about 73 percent of the10 cases now are being disposed of solely on11 their merits and shows a dramatic12 increase to those that were being13 dismissed prior to that without us ever14 getting to the judge to talk about15 whether or not the defendant did it or16 did not do it. 6 I'd Like to show you now that7 cases are proceeding faster. On this8 chart, we see about 13 percent more cases9 are disposed of within 100 days in the10 felony preliminary hearings. Eighteen11 percent more cases are disposed of within12 100 days in non-felony cases in Municipal13 Court. So what does this show? 21 Reducing recidivism and witness22 intimidation: Recidivism reduction is23 one of the most effective ways to drive24 down our crime rate and increase the25 109 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 trust of our communities. Without that2 trust, we will have continued difficulty3 ensuring that victims and witnesses4 appear at trial. 8 I had the opportunity to visit then9 District Attorney Kamala Harris. She was10 the District Attorney for San Francisco,11 and I have with me a copy of her book,12 Smart on Crime. 16 I want to implement one of her17 programs she refers to a name Back on18 Track. Back on Track is a deal with the19 phenomena of recidivism, and what we find20 in Philadelphia, Madam President, is five21 percent of our defendants commit 6022 percent of our crimes. And as a young23 prosecutor, my goal every day was just to24 get my cases ready and to try already25 110 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 cases. I tried to do that to the best of2 my ability. It wasn't until I was asked3 to be the Chief of the Repeat Offenders4 Unit in 2000 I began looking at, well,5 who is getting arrested and what are6 these patterns. And we find that the7 number one thing people have in common8 that get arrested in Philadelphia is that9 they didn't finish high school. 15 What I learned was that we16 spend a lot of our resources when people17 have murdered people or they've been18 arrested 25 times or more, but we're not19 doing enough the first time that the20 defendant gets arrested to ensure they21 don't come back into the criminal justice22 system. 2 The Back on Track program that3 we're going to implement here in4 Philadelphia will be called The Choice is5 Yours, and I'm very lucky that I've made6 friends with Gerry Lenfest and Dr. Keith7 Leaphart, and Mr. 11 By law, I can request a judge12 to give a defendant a mandatory minimum13 of one year of incarceration if that14 defendant sells on our streets more than15 two grams of crack cocaine. So I drink16 coffee every day, and each little packet17 of sugar has about one gram. D. in7 violence from the State Penitentiary. So8 this program tries to reduce recidivism9 by taking those first-time non-violent10 offenders that made a terrible decision11 to sell that poison on our streets, but12 to give them a second chance and to give13 them hope. What this program will do is14 that they have to get drug and alcohol15 treatment, if appropriate. 17 They'll do community service and clean up18 our neighborhoods, but, most importantly,19 they'll learn a trade. They'll learn to20 be a barber or an auto mechanic's helper21 or carpenter's assistant. And if they22 successfully complete the program, not23 only do they have no conviction, they'll24 have no record. 6 So if you're a bleeding heart7 liberal or a fiscal conservative, you'll8 see that what we're doing currently9 doesn't work and that this program10 hopefully as a pilot program will be able11 to give us the results and the data so12 that we can try to implement this in a13 larger fashion. 25 114 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Councilman Jones went along with us for2 one of them. 18 So we have opened our office for students19 from public and parochial and private20 schools that come to our office where21 Mr.
Vernon Price, who formerly worked for22 Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller, and23 Leland Kent have a training program that24 explains many of the career opportunities25 115 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 in the criminal justice system, gives2 them a tour of the Criminal Justice3 Center and also shows pictures of lives4 that have been destroyed as a result of5 the poison of narcotics. 18 It's my goal -- and those two cost19 nothing to the City. I got one as a20 direct donation from Bart Blatstein at21 the Piazza in Northern Liberties, and the22 other I came up with the dollar out of my23 own pocket to pay OARC for at least for24 one year. 4 That's majorly -- one of my5 major goals, of course, is to prevent6 crime. 22 Witness intimidation: I'd like23 to again thank Councilman Jones for the24 $200,000 that he helped us receive. 5 Improving criminal justice and6 reducing costs, investing in public7 safety: We believe that we can8 conservatively estimate that through9 these changes, we have saved about $610 million this year to the taxpayers of11 Philadelphia. 2 We've reduced the need for3 court-appointed attorneys. 6 The changes I've discussed7 above all are the primary reason for this8 decrease. But it is my goal that we9 reinvest some of these savings. 14 I'd like to show you another15 chart that shows that the Philadelphia16 District Attorney's Office is among the17 lowest funded DA's Office in America, and18 if you were to look at -- based on the19 rate of violent crime, only Wayne County,20 Michigan funds its District Attorney with21 less money. We believe that we should be22 permitted to --23 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:24 Excuse me. 2
It appears the3 most money here is Santa Clara,4 California. These are the top 205 counties by population.6
Well, their9 funding comes from -- and these only are10 reflective of the general funds. But11 they're funded as a result of in Santa12 Clara, California, this is their general13 fund coming from all of the taxpayers in14 that county. So in some of these, of15 course, like you'll see San Diego County,16 San Diego is comprised of -- it's about17 the same population, the city, as the18 City of Philadelphia. They're just a19 little bit smaller than Philadelphia, but20 their county is about 2.5 million. So21 that includes people in the City of San22 Diego and in the suburbs of San Diego.23 But we receive more funding24 only of the top 20 counties than Wayne25 120 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 County or Detroit, Michigan. And I2 believe that all of us want to ensure3 that the economy continues to thrive here4 in Philadelphia and that we don't have5 the same crime problem that they do6 unfortunately in Detroit.7 We believe that justice8 reinvestment encourages innovation and is9 a proven best practice. The justice10 reinvestment would be made part of the11 Fiscal Year '12 budget and that CJAB can12 coordinate with Deputy Mayor Gillison and13 coordinate and work with Council and the14 Mayor.15 What will we use the money for?16 We would use the money for other methods17 of improving our criminal justice system,18 making it more efficient, making the City19 safer, such as a case management system.20 We hope to have e-discovery, electronic21 discovery; community courts; one that is22 being championed by my very good friend23 Councilman Blondell Reynolds Brown, our24 Family Justice Center. We're going to25 121 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 use these reinvestment dollars to improve2 our technology; of course, for3 prosecutors' salaries, which is about 944 percent of my budget; for DART, District5 Attorney's Response Team. We should be6 able to draw on the Department of7 Technology's capital budget funds with a8 portion of our savings.9 And, again, we cannot sustain10 the innovative programs and initiatives11 that improve public safety and restore12 confidence in our office if we continue13 to be woefully underfunded. We believe14 that justice reinvestment solves the15 unfunding problem and wouldn't require16 any additional dollars to our budget.17 So, again, Madam President, the18 13 pages and the charts and the maps that19 we have provided with Council I believe20 more adequately gives voice to my hopes21 for this year and for our budget in the22 future. But at this time, I will answer23 any questions that Madam President has or24 any of the members of Council.25 122 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Thank2 you very much.3 The Chair recognizes Councilman4 Jones.5
Thank you,6 Madam President.7 And thank you for the8 quantitative analysis of what you're9 doing. I think that's helpful to us.10 It's too often not good enough to just do11 good; you have to show that doing good12 pays off. And what I'm intrigued about13 is the idea of some of the diversion14 programs, some of the minimal sentencing15 or charging aspects of what impact16 economically does it have, both on your17 budget but the rippling effects to other18 budgets, the reduction of inmates up in19 State Road. A lot of people the prisons20 would have you -- or have us believe that21 somehow they shut the doors to the22 prisons and just wouldn't accept new23 clients, but I think it starts with your24 Charging Unit that has had an impact also25 123 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 on the Prison System.2 So whether we're talking about3 the CJAB as a whole, it's like a circle4 of impacts and it's hard to tell where it5 actually begins, but I can see or we're6 beginning to see the benefits rippling7 throughout each department. And I wonder8 if in fact there is an expert, budget9 expert, that's going to be able to, in a10 data-driven manner, kind of guide us on11 what works, what is not working, not just12 from the social service aspect of it but13 from the budget impact aspect of it.14
Thank you,15 Councilman. That's a very good point.16 We're trying to do all that we can. You17 mention to have more than just18 anecdotal information. And so one of the19 platform ideas I ran on also and we've20 implemented, I have a Chief Performance21 Officer. But more than just having one22 person, we received the federal grants23 for technology and now our IT Department24 comes under our Pretrial Unit, so that we25 124 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 can gather the specific data. They'll be2 able to chart our performance measurement3 by what we're doing, how many cases are4 being disposed of on their merits, how5 many are being disposed of because of6 non-meritorious reasons.7 You mentioned the diversionary8 programs. It's very, very important for9 people to understand that if we were to10 make a crime pyramid, only about eight to11 five percent of those cases, the top of12 the pyramid, are what would be the lead13 story on Action News. The supermajority14 of the cases in the criminal justice15 system are part of that 95 percent of the16 cases of the arrest, but the 70 to 7517 thousand arrests a year are not something18 that you would hear about on TV, but19 they're the quality-of-life crimes that20 drive people out of the City.21 I tell people that my wife has22 an unhealthy appreciation of Brad Pitt23 and George Clooney and their movie Oceans24 Eleven and Twelve. So in those movies,25 125 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 these criminals spend months preparing2 the robbery of the Bellagio in Vegas.3 The majority of crimes are crimes of4 opportunity, just Pook and your man-man5 (ph) are walking down the street, they6 see you left your garage door open and7 they steal your lawnmower and they sell8 it for crack, or Center City too often9 people leave their cell phone charging or10 their attache and their laptop on their11 seat. Somebody breaks into the car and12 takes it.13 So there are patterns of crimes14 based on geography, but these crimes, for15 the most part, are those most likely to16 be reduced through community-based17 prosecution, working with communities,18 empowering them to prevent crime, and19 having smart methods of diverting these20 cases so that the defendant can get the21 help that he or she needs so as not to22 become a repeat offender.23 All of the defendants that were24 charged with murdering the police, that25 126 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 we had a spade of five homicides in a2 very short period of time of police3 officers, all of those defendants started4 their criminal careers as truants. But5 doing all we can to help those people the6 first time they get arrested will help us7 prevent recidivism, will help us help8 victims heal in a quicker way, and it's9 just cost effective.10
So we can get13 those out of the system and that we can14 fight cat and dog with any criminal15 defense attorney on cases that we need to16 be fighting cats and dogs with, the17 shooting cases, the robberies, the rapes18 and the homicides.19
We agree a20 hundred percent and I've had an21 opportunity to share in some of your22 philosophy and listen to some of your23 theory about community-based24 prosecutions. We travel out to some of25 127 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the neighborhoods to see how that kind of2 in-depth understanding of a neighborhood3 can impact people coming forth, feeling4 confident in the process. So I agree5 with that.6 Last night, Councilwoman7 Blackwell and myself had the unfortunate8 task of going to a parent's home, who the9 young man was shot to death on his porch.10 His father had to deal with the fact that11 the accused knocked on the door, asked12 for his son. He was polite enough to13 say, Wait, I'll go check. He came back14 out and they shot his son twice in the15 chest, killing him dead.16 I guess I say that that is the17 most difficult part of my job.18 Councilwoman Blackwell went with me out19 there, and it was one of the saddest20 duties any official, any person will ever21 have to do, to tell and explain why a22 parent has to bury their child.23 I guess what I'm leading to is24 that I read that crime is up nine25 128 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 percent, yet our jails are down a2 thousand people. So the diversion3 programs, I'm assuming, are part of that4 reasoning why it's working. Is it5 getting better or is it getting worse? I6 mean, I've been on board, you've been on7 board a while. In your mind, is it8 getting better? Is it getting worse?9 And are the conviction rates getting10 better in the process?11
Yes. And you12 mention the conviction rates.13 Unfortunately when I took office, we had14 the lowest conviction rate of the 4015 largest urban areas. We had not only the16 lowest rate of cases being held for17 court, it was twice the national average,18 that 59 percent of cases not being held19 for court. So we're making tremendous20 changes, but it's going to take a while,21 of course, to show a long-term effect.22 But, again, I share with you23 the feeling that the most difficult part24 of my job or is the emotional toll is25 129 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 having two BlackBerries that go off all2 day with the worst of our human3 experience, of every rape, shooting,4 every murder, the fact that about two or5 three Philadelphians every day commit6 suicide. So it takes a great toll. And7 the most difficult part of my job so far8 is when I had to go to the funeral for a9 young woman who graduated from Central10 High School last year on June the 17th.11 That Friday she went to the Oak Lane Jazz12 Festival, had come home and was shot in a13 cross fire.14 So I understand your pain.15 That's my pain as well. I believe that16 the changes that we're making, if we17 begin to get more defendants helped18 sooner, if we are more efficient in being19 able to handle the very violent cases, we20 hopefully will be able to see a change in21 that turn-style at the Criminal Justice22 Center, the revolving door, and also23 allow us to spend more of our resources24 focusing on -- I was about to look to my25 130 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 friend Councilman Clarke -- on getting2 these illegal guns off our streets.3 But it has to be a holistic4 approach, and there's no magic wand to5 make it happen quickly, because we have6 to change the culture as well of those7 young men who we say would rather spark8 it out than talk it out. So we have to9 change their mindset and the culture that10 addresses that.11 But we can -- I've used my own12 resources to hire a young woman who is a13 school teacher, she was a principal, she14 even went and got her Ph.D. in education.15 She went to the University of16 Pennsylvania Law School, where she was17 the President of the Black Law Students18 Association. She was a clerk for a19 federal judge, and she was only like 36,20 and I hired her to help us run our21 Project Go to work with the School22 District and Dr. Ackerman, to work with23 the courts and Judge Dougherty, to work24 with the Department of Human Services,25 131 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Commissioner Ambrose, to reduce truancy.2 So having that holistic approach I3 believe will have the long-term effect.4 And you asked about the prison5 population. Well, a lot of that is a6 result of us having a more expedited7 manner in handling the violations of8 probation and parole, by having more9 reasonable pretrial policies and10 protocol, by having the SMART program, by11 having SAM and AMP. I believe all of12 those are having the effect of having13 fewer people incarcerated on State Road.14 And hopefully the same thing that was15 true -- I want everybody to understand, I16 want to have the right people in jail.17 The right people have to have a timeout,18 and by expanding our Charging Unit and19 the numbers that we have, it has taken a20 serious toll on our Trial Division, but I21 believe that that investment is22 worthwhile, and all of these investments,23 Mr. Councilman, will have long-term24 effects as our goal. And if they don't,25 132 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 as a result of us analyzing real data and2 not just wanting to pat myself on the3 back or to talk tough stuff here in front4 of you or when we meet at McCormick &5 Schmick's or anywhere, by having real6 data for us to analyze, if we see that7 something isn't working, then we'll have8 to change it and find out what the best9 practice is to implement here in10 Philadelphia.11
It is -- for12 the record, we do not believe the13 District Attorney's Office, Deputy Mayor14 for Public Safety or the Police15 Commissioner are in charge of crime.16 You're in charge of crime prevention. So17 we don't place the blame of increased18 crime or homicide on you. It is all of19 our jobs to deal with it, including the20 community; most importantly, the21 community.22 Our hope is that by using these23 programs of diversion to get non-violent24 offenders out of the way, that more25 133 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 resources can be concentrated on those2 people who don't want the right hand of3 fellowship but are looking for the left4 hand of punishment. Because last night5 what was interesting to me, most6 interesting, was that the people in that7 community just want it to stop.8 Punishment is fine. You know, preventive9 is fine. They just want it to stop,10 because it is not the way to live.11 The lady that struck me most --12 and then I'll turn it over to my13 colleagues -- said that her son had14 buried close to 20-plus people in his15 adult life, which is more people than16 she's buried in her whole life, meaning17 that he begun to think that burying your18 friends was normal, and she kept telling19 him after each funeral, No, this isn't20 normal, this isn't normal, and that last21 night -- I think Councilwoman heard22 her -- she was beginning to say, Well,23 maybe this is normal, and we had to24 reaffirm to her, No, this is not normal.25 134 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 It is not expected of your children to2 think it's normal, and that we have to do3 something about it.4 So, again, as much as I support5 community courts -- and you know that I6 do -- the other end of the spectrum is7 that folks who don't get it need to get8 an understanding that it won't be9 tolerated by citizens and communities.10
Right. And,11 Councilman, that's an excellent point,12 and the goal -- I've given you a copy of13 Smart on Crime. I think I've given14 Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown a15 copy. I think I might have given16 Councilman Goode a copy. If not, I will.17 Being smart on crime, by focusing and18 getting these misdemeanor cases out of19 the system and dealing with them in a20 more efficient way will allow us to21 better use our resources to go after22 those people that are violent and to23 ensure that we're holding more of them24 for court, that we're getting more of25 135 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 them convicted and held accountable for2 their atrocities and the violations of3 the peace and dignity of all4 Philadelphians.5
Thank you,6 Madam President.7 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:8 You're welcome.9 I see Councilman Clarke's light10 is on. However, he's not in the room.11 I just want to say that I12 applaud you and your staff for doing such13 a fabulous job. And when you started14 your testimony, it brought days back when15 an Assistant DA would have a case16 assigned to him. If for some reason the17 case was not heard, it would be put back18 into the pending files. At least five or19 six Assistant DAs would eventually be in20 charge of handling that same case, which21 I think is just ridiculous. And I think22 that your changing that around alone23 certainly meant so much, both for the24 victim, the defendant and certainly it25 136 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 saves a lot of money for the City.2 Talking about money, let's just3 talk about money for a minute.4
You6 concluded your testimony, you say, I7 recommend that between now and the time8 this budget is approved, Council should9 request that our Criminal Justice10 Advisory Board identify and formulate a11 justice reinvestment plan for your12 review, and you go on to mention about13 Councilman Green being involved in that.14 Am I misinterpreting that or15 are you asking that we certainly put more16 money into the reinvestment plan?17
Well, of course,18 I would love you just to give me more19 money, but --20
But I think my23 goal of reinvestment I think would be an24 incentive. My goal, of course, is public25 137 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 safety, first and foremost, and there's2 no way to quantify or put a dollar amount3 on that mother who lost her child I think4 on Irving Street --5
But I think my8 goal is to suggest a method, a policy or9 protocol that could be created by Council10 so that if there is a savings as a result11 of a reduction in prison costs and a12 reduction in court overtime, that those13 monies that are saved --14
Not all of it,17 because the City needs lots of other18 things. We have to ensure that we have19 libraries and that we have to have20 recreation centers, I understand that,21 and we have to fill potholes, but that a22 percentage of that be considered by23 Council and the Mayor and CJAB to be24 reinvested into the Courts, into the25 138 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 District Attorney's Office, into all of2 those members of CJAB that really have3 been driving the savings in this area.4 And, of course, you know better than I.5 I believe that public safety is close to6 50 percent maybe of the City's budget, if7 you take out the pensions and everything8 else.9 So I think if we can work10 together collectively, as we have been,11 it would be an incentive again for us to12 continue to work together to find13 efficiencies, the best practices and that14 hopefully some of that money would be15 reinvested into the criminal justice16 system.17 I'll be making a pitch in18 Harrisburg that if we have 200 people in19 our The Choice is Yours program, instead20 of those 200 people being in state prison21 at $40,000 a year at a cost of $8 million22 to taxpayers, if we were to have those23 200 people in this program -- that would24 be about a million dollars -- there would25 139 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 be a savings of $7 million to the state2 for having fewer people in state prison.3 So my goal would be, of course,4 we need to do lots of things with that,5 give money to Penn State, I understand6 that, but some of that money should be7 reinvested into other methods that will8 help us better prevent crime.9
Thank10 you.11 The Chair recognizes12 Councilwoman Brown.13
Good14 afternoon, Madam President.15 Good afternoon, gentlemen.16
Yes,19 absolutely. And we would have to give20 honor to some others, right?21 Let me underscore President22 Verna's observations about the work you23 all have done in launching how we need to24 work smarter and actually looking at best25 140 4/26/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 practices around the country to see what2 we can adopt and thus allow us to make3 even more efficiencies.4 The truancy question was5 discussed a lot during the hearings of6 DHS Commissioner, and there are a number7 of us on City Council who, like you, are8 still perplexed as to why we're not doing9 better with, I'm told, about 11,00010 children each year that are grappling11 with this thing called truancy.12 So short term, what is the13 strategic plan, action plan or thinking14 around the stakeholders you just15 mentioned a few moments ago?16