But we just can't talk about it every few years. 69 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264
I wanted to bring you a list. The first two schools of eight that they have --
The first two schools the AOP has asked for on this sheet were, in fact, crossings in 1997.
I'm asking you, do 70 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 you know?
Well, when was the last time there was a crossing guard at those intersections?
Some of these questions, I will not be able to answer. Number 31 on the list of the 32, D and Clearfield, I know that's right outside of Elkin School. I know the crossing guard there had a hard time when she was there with the parents double-parking their cars, the children all coming 71 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 out.
And I don't know why the -- the last crossing guard I know of was there in 1995.
I've been there many times in that school and I've seen it. When kids are coming out, I've seen the lines of parents that were --
-- double-parked on the avenue, on Allegheny and so on, and it's hectic. Go ahead, Betty.
What this group is asking for is not unreasonable. I don't know whoever took the 223 and made them unfunded. I would like to have a list of those thousand funded corners.
'Cause I think you're the one person that really knows the subject better than anybody else that I know. And like I said, you and I have been through this many times, and I think we're going to go through it in the next few years a few more times. I would really hope not, but knowing -- knowing mayors and knowing administrations, I'm sure that we're going to be here discussing this in 2001 and 2002. If we are currently funded for a thousand --
-- what is, in your estimation, the current need for crossing guards? And I know that this does not include middle schools. Although, if you go to Roberto Clemente School at Second and Erie, you know that there's needs for crossing guards all over the place over there, and that's a middle school. And according -- or they keep on telling me that they don't qualify for crossing guards. And we already had a grandparent and a child killed in that area. But in your estimation, what is the true need that we have in terms of the current 73 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 schools?
The true need? Todd has surveyed the corners. He can better tell you than I can, to be honest with you. And as far as the middle schools, the elementary schools only go to the fifth grade now. There are many of those babies that should not even be going to a middle school, and they do need someone to cross them. They are ill-equipped to go to a middle school, 5th grade, no. 12
But would you say that there are around 200 corners that are currently unfunded and that there might be need for crossing guards?
Oh, absolutely. We'll take the 40 extra they hired in 1990 just to start with. When you are crossing a child, you do not talk about $2 million. If we save one child's life, it's worth that $2 million.
Well, okay, yes, absolutely. We cannot speak of money when it comes to our children. 74 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264
Could you please describe the process that presently exists where if an intersection, a school crossing location becomes -- a person's sick, heart attack, could you describe the relationship, the support that the Philadelphia Police Department gives a community, gives you in covering those locations? I hear it's, for lack of a better word, there's room for improvement?
Well, when I came on in 1973, Councilman Rizzo, a policeman was on the corner if I was out, okay. They can't do that. They don't have the staffing to do that, and even if they put someone on the corner, if they get a call, they must leave that corner.
It's the wrong use of a policewoman or policeman. We've been trying to put civil servants in different jobs at the round house because we want our uniformed police 75 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 out on the streets. I think crossing guards is one of the best things we've done. That we haven't done 'em on every corner that's needed, that's another matter. But I would like to really get to the point where we can establish -- and the inspector is still here -- where we can establish what the true need is. And I would like to begin the discussion about middle schools because Clemente and Julio de Gorgos that is coming up now at Fourth and Elkins and other schools down the line are schools that really need caution at different levels at different sites. Councilman DiCicco, I know, can identify a whole series of other schools along the same lines. I would like to really get a handle on what is the need that we have currently in the city, because we don't want to come back here after the fact, after the accident, after the injury. We don't want to come back here and say, Well, we shall have had a crossing guard at that corner before that 7-, 8-, 9-year-old got hit by that truck. So, Inspector, you know, if you're 76 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 listening to me, really, we have a universe of a thousand that are funded, but we know that during the last ten years, our school system has grown incredibly. The number of students coming into the public school system is growing, it is not going down, and it will not be going down for the foreseeable future. So that means we are going to have a bigger population of kids out on the street, and we need to begin finding out what is the universe that we need to be looking at in order to realistically and properly do a job that these kids can feel safe and the parents can feel safe that they're sending their kids to school. And that includes me because I have a 9-year-old going to public school and I'll have a 6-year-old going to public school next year. So it is imperative that we have that. Betty, do you have anything else?
Just to say that the need is there. We can't wait every three years and go through the same thing over 'cause we're not solving anything.
No. We were here before and we're here again. 77 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 Mr. Moragne, one closing word?
Yes. Councilman Ortiz, our main objective here is to find out when we leave -- before we leave here, we have priority corners that we asked to be staffed by September. Now --
We have eight corners here that we're asking to be staffed by September.
The inspector, we asked the inspector that. They cannot answer that either. The inspector's here. He testified. We have seven vacancies.
Hopefully, those 78 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 seven vacancies will be filled by September '99,, and at least seven of these eight corners will be staffed.
Okay? Am I right? The one at 18th and Fairmount has already been staffed. INSPECTOR DILACQUA: Yes, sir.
Could I just follow back on that question I asked a minute ago. Inspector, could you please come back to the table. (Inspector DiLacqua returns to the witness table.)
Inspector, what I think would drive this vacancy issue, could you describe -- and, again, I heard Mrs. McDonald say that the resources aren't there for a police officer in service to cover an intersection, especially a crossing that is high-volume, lots of traffic, lots of kids, lots of pedestrians. 79 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 Could you tell me from the Police Department's position in covering those locations, even though I agree with Councilman Ortiz, this is not the best use of uniformed patrol police, but could tell me the policy and how it's carried out in the event that there is a long-term illness at a high-volume intersection, the police, will they -- would you explain how it works. INSPECTOR DILACQUA: When we're aware of a vacancy, for example, a school crossing guard calls out sick, that information is given to the shift supervisor, the platoon lieutenant or sergeant who will assign a police officer to cover that crossing. And the problem Ms. McDonald spoke about is just because a police officer is at that corner where there's a vacancy, it does not ensure that he or she will be able to remain there for the duration of the crossing, based on other needs for service.
We're all talking about -- and I agree with -- how important this is to protect the life and safety of children. Could that policy be revisited that on very, very busy locations that that car be out of service? 80 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 INSPECTOR DILACQUA: There have been in the past some crossings that were considered -- where the officer is considered to be held out of service. But in the harsh reality in some of the busier areas of the district, even though that is a priority out-of-service corner, there may be a hospital case pending, a shooting pending, and --
You cannot ask that, you cannot ask that a policeman not answer a call. INSPECTOR DILACQUA: Exactly.
That said, Councilman, if I may, if I may, okay? You know, this is not about -- this is about crossing guards. Let us keep the perspective on the crossing guards, and that's where it should be.
Where I'm heading is the fact that if your policy required you to commit a police officer, that would drive your management to fill these vacancies, I think, a 81 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 little bit quicker. INSPECTOR DILACQUA: Well, we are committed to filling all vacancies. As I said earlier, the seven vacancies we have will be filled by the start of the school year. Obviously, we're not going to hire someone in June, the end of June here, but by September, those vacancies will be filled. The numbers I had talked about --
The eight vacancies here will be filled by September. INSPECTOR DILACQUA: Yes, sir.
There's only seven now. INSPECTOR DILACQUA: Seven vacancies.
Mr. Moragne, you got your answer, the other vacancies will be filled.
Excuse me. He only states that the seven vacancies will be filled; he is not stating that those seven vacancies will take at least seven of the corners that we are requesting, and that's what we're asking right here, right now, to fill those seven vacancies. 82 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264
Let us clarify this, okay? Now, listen, five of these seven vacancies that are left are in my Council district. They're five of the ten that I've been pushing, and I think I have an understanding with the mayor's office to have these five taken care of. The guy's just a man, he's just trying to do a job. If he says the wrong thing, he's walking the corner of Front and west Moreland tomorrow.
Now, you got to let me finish, that's how it works; you talk, I talk. Inspector, let me say this to you, that way there's no misunderstanding. INSPECTOR DILACQUA: Certainly.
These seven corners -- Fifth and York, Fifth and Susquehannah, Hancock and Dauphin, Seventh and Hunting Park, Westmoreland and Glenwood, Pulaski and Coulter, and Seventh and Cumberland -- will be filled in 83 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 September with permanent crossing guards. Is that a yes or no, Inspector? (Inspector DiLacqua confers with Sergeant Thompson.)
Inspector, you got to answer me 'cause I'm a councilman, he's a sergeant. INSPECTOR DILACQUA: I was just trying to get the information to give you the correct answer, sir.
I'm trying to throw you a softball here. Either say yes or no. 14 If you say no, we'll go somewhere else. These seven corners that I mentioned will be filled with permanent crossing guards. No 17 games, no -- INSPECTOR DILACQUA: If they are funded corners. And if they're not funded corners, and I am being told they're not funded corners, they won't be filled by September.
Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it. Hold it, hold it.
We need to fund those corners. 84 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 INSPECTOR DILACQUA: Yes, sir.
Now, these are not funded corners? INSPECTOR DILACQUA: That's the information I was getting.
They're all elementary schools. All seven of these aren't funded, Sergeant? Sergeant, why don't you step up here. INSPECTOR DILACQUA: They're not funded corners.
So they cannot -- you cannot promise that you will have those corners filled in September. 85 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264
Because they're not funded. Go ahead. SERGEANT THOMPSON: The seven vacancies right now are currently -- the seven out of a thousand, they just retired in the last month. These corners are already -- those seven positions are already dedicated.
These seven I just spoke of? SERGEANT THOMPSON: No. Those are new from this group AOP that came to you to that City Council meeting with me, and you were there, those are newly requests.
Okay. SERGEANT THOMPSON: These new requests will go over 1,000. There will be 1,008 if that's what they want, and we don't have 8 positions 'cause we don't have 8 budgeted.
You don't have 80,000 -- what is it? SERGEANT THOMPSON: I could tell you this: if you want me to get -- I have seven vacancies. Now, the seven vacancies, we'll go to those eight, and then we got the other problem, 86 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 the seven that we didn't fund in the previous administration.
Yeah, well that's taking -- SERGEANT THOMPSON: It's taking from Peter and adding to Paul.
Yeah, right. You're taking 'em from Donna Miller's district and putting 'em in my district.
So what you're saying to me is that you need 83-something thousand dollars. SERGEANT THOMPSON: If you want to add those eight AOP organizations, yes.
What we got to do is sell some more of them Rendell hoagies and we'll get it.
Well, my question initially was the same one that we're just raising here. I was wondering if those seven vacancies 87 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 were the AOP priority corner. I thought that they were different. SERGEANT THOMPSON: No. We just gave you a rundown. We have a thousand positions, we had a thousand, close to a thousand this year.
And seven vacancies? SERGEANT THOMPSON: Currently funded positions.
I have a question. Miss McDonald, you said you would take the 40 that you had in 1990. Well, if -- can you explain a little further, is it 40 plus 1,000 or is it --
Yes, Councilwoman. The inspector had said that in 1990, we had 1,040 crossing guards. We'll take them back. It would solve that. But the first two names on that AOP list were at one time funded. 88 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264
So somebody else robbed Peter to pay Paul earlier; we wanna rob 'em back.
Excuse me, Councilman. The first two corners were at one time funded from the 26th District.
I cannot answer that. I do not know who unfunded them. We now have funded and unfunded.
I can tell you what happened. What happened is that we were in an economic situation during the late period of 1989, '90, '91. And what happened is that, again, this -- administration after administration did not put this as a priority. So when they needed money, when they needed staffing, when they needed money to pay some other personnel, they took it from the lower rung of employees. That's what happened. That's what 89 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 happened. That's why you see it in 1990, '91 and then you don't see it in 19926789. That's the beginning of David L. Cohen, Ed, and so on, because they needed -- they were coming in in a period of time in which they prioritized different services. And this is a service that was not organized in terms of constituency. As Mr. Moragne said, the constituency was not organized, was not there to be able to be advocates for the positions. And so they decided where is -- where can we take money and there can be very little complaining about it. There were complaints here and there, but none of the complaints were organized. And that's where the money came from.
The money that was taken, we would like to have back to protect the children of this city.
Well, didn't we at one time have 1200 funded corners? 90 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264
As the economic conditions of the City became lower and worse, cuts happened. And, again, the -- what is it, the squeaky wheel gets the oil?
And there were no 10 squeaks coming from parents at that time in terms of crossing guards.
But what we are seeing here is, those 223 corners are not being considered again because someone has unfunded them. The number one and number two that AOP is asking for were at one time fund. The 26th District had 75 crossing guards; they now have about 46.
Okay. Are there any other questions? Any other statements?
State your name 91 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 again, please.
My name is Kit Mullen, and I'm the mother of four children in the public school system, three of which are in elementary. I'm also a member of the AOP and organizing around our schools. And I'd like to also say that we are still waiting for our copies of the 1,000 funded schools. And it's not like we just asked casually at a hearing; we actually wrote a formal written request, and we're still waiting.
You give your address to Wanda, and we'll mail you a copy of this, okay?
Okay. We would also like copies of the 19 of the 28 corners studied by the police inspector. While you're getting those copies, we would like copies IF you could copy 'em for us if we don't get 'em from the police.
We'll send 'em, we'll mail 'em. You give us your address, you know, and we'll send 'em. 92 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264
Okay. And the other thing is, we are quite familiar with how bureaucracy works. I'm learning more and more every day. And you had said in the beginning of these hearings that yes, this is the start, this is the beginning. We still have the mayor, we still have Timoney, we still have the Streets Department.
Actually, this is not the beginning. I think, like Betty McDonald said, we were here in '96, I was here screaming at the commissioner.
Because while people were stealing our crossing guards, you know, we would have been squeaky wheels if somebody had said, Look, we're going to take your crossing guards away from your children and fund something else. I think parents would have come together then if they had known, but it was pulled out from under them little by little, trickle by trickle, without them knowing. And, of course, more and more people are driving, so it's becoming imperative 93 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 that these things are taken care of. And we're not going to stop squeaking, so you might as well just pass that on to everybody. But we would like another Council hearing in September. We want to keep up to date and we will not go away. So this is a proceeding and this is how we would like to --
Personally, I don't want you to go away; I want you to keep on squeaking as much as you can. And we will try to do -- and like I said, this Council will act hopefully -- the will of this Council will be nourished and made strong as we see the will organized and grouping of parents that come before us.
So you're saying you're with us, huh? City Council is going to be with us on --
And I can only speak for myself, but I've been there, and we have been there, but we cannot force the administration 94 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 unless parents are organized.
Where would the additional funding come from then that we need to --
That is a subject for discussion. First you put it up to the administration, and then we then we have to act. If the administration doesn't move forward, then we as a body have to begin determining where it is that we can take money from to do this type of --
Yes, Sergeant? SERGEANT THOMPSON: Just one more word. If you had a thousand narrowed down to nine positions, again, a lot of guards are retiring or just quitting, so we have nine vacancies as of today, and the list is coming over through fax.
Yours certainly won't be done until the end of September.
Well, they have a survey done for 19 of the positions, right? But 95 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 for the entire list, your survey will not be done until after school begins in September.
And the survey would be -- SERGEANT THOMPSON: Probably a month.
Well, in the meantime, why don't you listen to the parents that have done the work for you?
It will be done by October 1st. SERGEANT THOMPSON: Okay.
My suggestion is that maybe we wait until the survey is completed to meet because I don't want to have to meet and then come back two weeks later again.
There are going to be more vacancies because at this time of the year, 96 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264 the crossing guards do retire, those that want to. They're still not going to cover those corners.
We understand that. That has been made very clear. These corners are not funded.
These are not part of the thousand funded corners, the eight corners that are here. So if they told Councilman Mariano that his six corners that are here -- or five, they are not funded, they don't have the money for that. So they either have to come up with a transfer ordinance the first week of September in order to fund those corners and -- or then we're going to have to look at it ourselves and try to do something along those lines. But, Mr. Moragne, I would like to see a thousand parents here.
Okay. Is there any other witness? (No response.) 97 6/22/99 PUBLIC SAFETY & ED. - RES. 990264
Seeing none, the Council Committee on Public Safety on Resolution 4 990264 stands in recess. Thank you. (Adjourned at 12:05 p.m.) - - - 98 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, June 22, 1999, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY RESOLUTION NO. 990264 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter