Committee Hearing, December 5, 2006

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, December 5, 2006, 1:25 p.m. - - - Bill 060441 - Amending Chapter 10-300 of the Philadelphia Code entitled "Minors" by amending the hours of the curfew... Bill 060700 - Amending Chapter 10-800 of the Philadelphia Code entitled "Safety" by adding a new section entitled "Failure to Report Lost of Stolen Firearms"... Bill 060856 - Held at request of sponsor. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Donna Reed Miller, Chair Darryl Clarke William K. Greenlee James F. Kenney Joan Krajewski Blondell Reynolds-Brown Frank Rizzo - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Specialists 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE BILL 060441 WITNESS Judge James DeLeon...................... Philadelphia Municipal Court DHS Dr. Arthur C. Evans, Acting Commissioner 90 R. George, Violence Prevention.......... 98 Lt. Francis Healy, Special Advisor..... 100 Police Commissioner Johnson James Jones, Consultant................ 125 Nancy Womack........................... 136 School District of Philadelphia BILL 060700 Police Commissioner Sylvester Johnson.. 8 Lt. Francis Healy...................... 19 Police Commissioner's Office Diane Edbril, CeaseFire PA............. 32 Bryan Miller, CeaseFire NJ............. 40 Shelly Yanoff, PCCY.................... 49 Harold Rosenthal, Private Citizen...... 55 S. Ryan, Mothers in Charge............. 64 T. Brunson, " " " ............. 68 Mark Harrell, Executive Director....... 75 Men United for a Better Philadelphia Mitch Little, Facilitator.............. 75 Concerned Men of Pointe Breeze * * * 3 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE

Good afternoon, everyone. The Committee on Public Safety is now in session. And to verify our quorum, the Councilpersons that are in attendance and members of this committee is Councilman Jim Kenney to my right, Councilman Greenlee and Councilwoman Joan Krajewski; and to my left Councilman, Rizzo. Good afternoon, everybody. Hi. Okay. Will the clerk please read the title of the first bill.

Bill 060441, an ordinance amending Chapter 10-300 of the Philadelphia Code entitled "Minors" by amending the hours of the curfew for minors and by amending the enforcement provisions, including, but not limited to, increasing the penalties for minors who violate the provisions of the chapter, and for parents and operators of establishments who knowingly permit 4 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 minors to violate the chapter, and by making certain technical changes, all under certain terms and conditions.

Thank you. Because of time constraints, we're going to call one witness for this bill, and then -- and that portion, and we'll pick this bill up later. Judge DeLeon needs to get back to court, and he does have some testimony that he wants to give on this Bill, 060441. (Witness comes forward. JUDGE DeLEON: Good afternoon, Madam Chairman -- Madam Chairlady.

Good afternoon. JUDGE DeLEON: And good afternoon, distinguished members of Council. My name is Judge James DeLeon of the Philadelphia Municipal Court, and I am here at the request of Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds-Brown. 5 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 And I say to you that any city ordinance such as this, which is designed to assist the administration of justice for juveniles, could help eliminate many of the needless juvenile homicides in our city. I offer you my help in any way that I can as to this and the Youth Commission. And I thank you for allowing me to give this testimony before you today.

Thank you, thank you. I also want to note that we do have Councilwoman Reynolds-Brown and Councilman Darryl Clarke in the chambers. Will the clerk please read the title of next bill. We will come back to this other bill.

Bill 060700, an ordinance amending Chapter 10-800 of the Philadelphia Code entitled "Safety" by adding a new section entitled "Failure to Report Lost of Stolen Firearms" by 6 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 requiring prompt notification of lost or stolen firearms and imposing penalties.

Okay. Excuse me just a second. Who has the witness list? I'm going to assume that Commissioner Sylvester Johnson is going to testify on this bill? Okay. Would you please come up to the table. Thank you. (Witnesses come forward.)

First, Councilman Clarke wants to make an opening statement.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of Council. Just a brief opening statement on these two bills. As you know, Councilwoman Miller and myself have sponsored a series of gun bills, none of which we were able to get State authorization yet. 7 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 It our hope that given the -- and I'm keeping my fingers crossed -- likelihood that the Democrats will control the State house as we move ahead in next year's legislature, that there will be, at a minimum, the possibility of getting a public hearing on some of the those bills to get State authorization. These two bills today, one of which we believe will require State authorization, we're asking for support so we can position that bill similar to the other bills that we have currently listed in the event that there is a public hearing to move in on the State level to authorize any of these particular very important bills. Additionally, there's a second bill that you will be hearing next. It is our belief, based on a ruling from the Law Department, that we will be able to deal with the handling/possession of illegal weapons and weapons that we may 8 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 not need State authorization on, so it is our hope that we will be able to get that bill passed and have the City of Philadelphia and the Police Department enforce that particular bill. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank, you Councilman Clarke. Commissioner, please proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: All right. I'm Commissioner Sylvester Johnson of the Philadelphia Police Department. Good afternoon, Madam Chairwoman, Councilpersons, and guests. Thank you for inviting me to speak today regarding two very important bills, one regarding the reporting of lost and stolen firearms and the other regarding the responsibility of preventing a child from gaining access to firearms. As you know, I am an avid supporter of legislation requiring 9 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 owners of lost or stolen guns to report the loss or theft of those weapons. It is no surprise that I am here to advocate for laws that will create a duty to report lost or stolen firearms as well as to keep weapons out of the hands of children. A stolen gun is a gun in the hands of a criminal. Good police work requires accurate intelligence. The reporting of lost and stolen firearms will allow the police to immediately assess the situation on the streets, create new strategies to recover as many of those weapons as possible. After all, an illegally obtained weapon is not stolen with good intent. With the record number of shootings against civilians and police, this information is also important to help officers remain safe while trying to protect the safety of others. Fewer illegal guns will likely result in fewer shootings with those weapons. 10 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 The requirement to report lost and stolen firearms would also impact our (indiscernible) straw purchases problem. Straw purchases illegally transfer guns to people who cannot legally obtain them. These are guns that are often used in crimes. The reporting statute would create liability for not reporting these transaction as well as draw suspicions with the report of large numbers of weapons disappearing creating, negative consequences for the straw purchasers. In addition to making the streets safer, there is also the added benefit to the owner. There's currently no criminal or direct civil liability for not reporting loss of stolen guns. However, civil liability is also a possible (indiscernible) of weapons left negligently used to hurt or kill someone else. Documenting the loss would access a mitigating factor in allowing police to obtain to get the weapon off the 11 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 streets before it is used to harm someone. This year, four children were tragically lost their lives because they or their young friends were playing with a gun. It is a fact that juveniles are also committing crimes with handguns and killing each other. Children should never have access to such a dangerous weapon. The Second Amendment and the right to bear arms comes a great responsibility. We owe our children the duty to keep them safe by protecting them from those weapons and giving them chance to just be a kid. Thank you. I will take any questions at this time.

Thank you, Commissioner. Are there any questions for this witness by any members of the committee or any Councilmembers? (No questions.) 12 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700

All right. Are there other police personnel who are going to testify? LT. HEALY: No, ma'am.

Do you have a question, Councilman Rizzo?

Yes. Commissioner, there was some media this morning about a Police Department initiative. Could you tell us a little bit about that, the retired detectives, et cetera? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: What it is, is that Senator Fumo gave us $5 million, gave, you know, the Police Department and the District Attorney's Office and the Attorney General's Office money just to attack guns. And what happens is that, under the District Attorney's Office, they've hired four police officers at this point, retired police officers, and an assistant district attorney who was also retired. 13 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 They're going to go into our divisions and just deal with gun and gun violence. That's the only thing they're dealing with. Right now, we're starting off in the Southwest Division because that has the highest crime rate as far as shootings is concerned. In any other district, 60 victims is the highest in the division. I think out of the 375 homicides we've had, close to 95 are in southwest. So the first four detectives -- they're retired homicide detectives -- will be work in Southwest. The next will be East. Eventually, we will have them in every single division in the entire City of Philadelphia. We feel as though that will benefit not just the Philadelphia Police Department but the citizens of Philadelphia, and their own responsibility is guns, and the Police Department's committed to that along 14 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 with the District Attorney and the Attorney General, where the money's going to be funded from.

Thank you, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Thank you.

Okay. Councilman Kenney?

Thank you. Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good afternoon.

Are we doing anything in an effort to trace back where these young people are getting these guns and attempting to, maybe in conjunction with the IRS or other federal authorities, to really go after the illegal gun dealers? Obviously, the tragedy is multifaceted by the time it gets into the hands of one of our young people who kill somebody else, but in the meantime, 15 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 I'm sure there are people in Pennsylvania and in Virginia and in Maryland and in other places that are living fat and happy off a lot of the guns that are being sold on our streets. And is there some way that we could figure out a way to work our way back to the chain so that we can maybe take some of these people's assets and put them in jail, where they belong? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, we're working very close with ATF; as a matter of fact, we have a task force. I have approximately seven or eight detectives that are assigned hours a 17 day to the ATF to trace guns. 18 You know, some of the 19 difficulty that we have is with some of 20 the laws that ATF just can't give us; 21 you know, that's one of the problems. 22 And there is some sort of legislation in 23 the Congress right now that would 24 prevent them from giving further information. 16 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 Every division at this point now in the City of Philadelphia, the Detective Division, has a gun person that is assigned just to handle the guns. The people that we just hired right now will be additional people. Interviewing young children, they're saying they get them from the older people, and we know the older people are getting them from straw purchases. So we're working along not with just people in the City of Philadelphia, but I'm going up next week to talk to the Police Commissioner of New York. The police commissioners themselves are getting together, you know, on the east coat to find out where these guns are coming from and how we can prevent the straw purchase. But these legislations that you have put into place -- or are about to be put in place hopefully will help us in a large way. 17 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700

I know you guys are working hard, and I just know that when it comes to big-time criminals like these major gun dealers are -- and I would argue that a lot of them, or some of them, are probably legitimate licensed gun dealers within their own states but are doing stuff out the back door for the dollar. The way you really get these big guys, as you know, is, the IRS has a way of getting everybody, including Al Capone, and that's how they actually, as you know, took him down. And I'm just wondering if the IRS component in this makes any sense, and when you have your discussions with the various commissioners throughout the east coast that perhaps we try to engage them, because the real way of taking people's assets, putting them in jail, taking their homes, taking the things they've acquired through this illegal business, is the IRS more than anybody 18 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 else. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, on board is Pat Meehan from the U.S. Attorney's Office, the Attorney General from the State, and District Attorney Lynn Abraham, and so these are the people that normally do the prosecutions, and they're strategizing right now to help law enforcement.

Okay. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: And I'm sure these things will be brought up.

I appreciate all your efforts, and I really would appreciate it if maybe they haven't raised the issue, somebody raises the issue that the IRS is a pretty frightening group when they want to be, and it would be nice to bring them into the process. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes.

Thank you.

You know, a few months ago, I read in the paper, 19 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 there was an article about people that were arrested because they were involved in purchasing guns. It was a straw purchase. And that was actually the first time I read an article about that. And I think that those types of -- that type of information needs to be published in the newspapers more and more, because I don't know that people, young people in particular, take it serious when they're buying a gun from someone else or if somebody asks them to go purchase -- those that are of age to go purchase weapons for them. But I don't think people know a whole bunch of information about what is a straw purchase, and that's something I'd like to see happen more. LT. HEALY: Well, I agree with that Councilwoman. Lieutenant Francis Healy with the Police Commissioner's Office. The lead agency on a lot of this collaborated effort is the ATF. 20 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 They routinely does press releases and coordinated releases when they do have a straw purchase. The big thing is the time that the individual usually gets; it's usually substantial. You're talking 25, 30 years for gun sales, illegal gun sales. We are a part of that task force and we work with them hand in hand routinely, and this is something we will reach out to and make sure we can do maybe a little more PR, but the PR is usually generated by the ATF because they are the lead agency and they do work with the Justice Department directly. But I do agree, and we will work to see if we can get out more of that information. It does have a chilling effect, and the kids know what's going to really --

It really does. Okay, thank you. 21 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 Councilman Kenney?

Just one follow-up question on the other line I was on before. Have there been any successful recent prosecutions or actions against so-called legal gun dealers who are doing illegal activity anywhere in the region that you're aware of? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I believe in Upper Darby.

Upper Darby. How about the one that was pretty much publicized and -- are they shut down now? LT. HEALY: I believe so, yes. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: They shut 'em down, and I think they had a large amount of guns for the last four or five years that were used in crimes committed in Philadelphia.

That were tracked back from our people with crime-scene information? 22 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's correct.

'Cause I'm wondering -- I mean, I see what Men United have done, you know, with Urban Outfitters and that insanity with the Christmas ornament made into a gun, and I'm wondering whether or not if we could start identifying some of these people to start putting some public protest pressure in front of their stores even throughout the suburbs or the rural areas, where people don't think they have the gun problem -- it's all in the city. The problem is, the guns are coming from those places in the rural and suburban areas many times, and I'm wondering whether or not we could coordinate a public -- a kind of a civil action against these people once we know who they are. LT. HEALY: Well, along those lines, the Law Department -- Eleanor 23 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 Ewing from the Law Department has been working with the Mayor's Office in tactics along those lines. One of the big stumbling blocks that you have currently is there's a limitation on the amount of information that the ATF is now allowed by law to give us. So just can't ask them for all of the information on where the guns track back to. We used to a couple years ago, but there was a recent appropriations bill through Congress that actually limited what the ATF could provide to local law enforcement.

And this was an effort to protect them? LT. HEALY: It was actually -- now this is my own comment, but it's a result of the New York lawsuit. A lot of the information that was routinely given out by the ATF was actually used, I believe, in that lawsuit.

So the U.S. 24 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 Congress was attempting to thwart the efforts of the New York City police and their efforts to curb guns in their cities? LT. HEALY: I don't know what the reason was --

I'm not looking for you to confirm it; I'm saying it is. LT. HEALY: Right. I don't know the reason why, but there was --

And was that done recently, or how long ago was that -- LT. HEALY: Several years. The lawsuit is ongoing, I believe.

Yeah, but how long ago was the restriction on the ATF information? LT. HEALY: I believe it was last year's appropriation bill -- last year or the year before.

Well, now that the Senate and the House are 25 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 perhaps Democratic, perhaps we could -- LT. HEALY: Well, I believe they're also trying to make it a permanent amendment to the ATF bills, where the ATF will be -- it's their computerized databases. They generate some great information. They track every gun that we take into our custody in Philadelphia; it gets run through this system. And so the ATF could tell where all the guns came from, where they originally came -- not the second or third sellers, but from the original seller.

That's what I'm interested in, the original seller. LT. HEALY: Well, from the experience we've seen, a lot, if not all, but a handful of licensed dealers are legitimate. The problem is, they have lawful people coming in and buying guns and then handing them to other 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 people out the door. And it's next to impossible for the gun dealer or the police, and that's something we need to either --

Well, but I would argue that maybe some of them are abiding by the letter of the law, not the spirit of the law. LT. HEALY: Quite possibly.

You know, the idea that "It's not my problem, it's somebody else's." LT. HEALY: Exactly.

All right. Thank you.

The article I read was about some young people from Philadelphia that went and purchased guns, and I've never read another article since that. I just think we have to really publicly educate people because I don't -- I don't think that young people actually realize the impact of what 27 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 they're doing. And they are getting a lots of time -- years, that's a lot 4 of time to serve in prison. 5 People need to know that, and 6 maybe that will help us too with this 7 whole effort to decrease straw 8 purchases. 9 LT. HEALY: If I could just add 10 to that. 11

Yes. 12 LT. HEALY: Half the problem 13 is, there's a double system of 14 prosecution: There's the federal level 15 and then there's the state level. 16 The state level does its best 17 to do its prosecutions, but on the 18 federal level, the penalties are much 19 more severe. And it's an incredible 20 wealth of ammunition to the government 21 or to the law enforcement on the federal 22 level. 23 There have been other 24 jurisdictions -- namely Richmond, 25 Virginia, which instituted a program 28 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 called "Project Exile" back in the early '90s. It had a rising homicide problem. In that situation, instead of some cases going to the state level and some going to the federal, the U.S. Attorney down in that area agreed to take all gun cases that fit within certain parameters. And what that did is, 90 percent of the gun cases went into the federal court system. That gave a lot more power and control, and so when they did have a they press release, they said: If you get caught with an illegal gun, you're going to do years. It 17 was true. 18 In Pennsylvania, it depends on 19 whether you go into the federal system 20 or the state system, so it's very hard 21 to send a very strong message when you 22 have differing court system. 23 It would be very nice to be 24 able to have all of our cases adopted 25 federally, but the feds can't solve all 29 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 of the problems.

That's true. LT. HEALY: But they have a great system, and it would be nice to have that, 'cause you would be able to say without any reservation: Caught with a gun and you have a drug history, you're going to jail for years. 11

Right. 12 LT. HEALY: As it stands right 13 now, we can't absolutely say that, and I 14 wish we could 'cause we could send that 15 stronger message out there, which we need to send.

And what is the state penalty here in Pennsylvania? LT. HEALY: It all ranges on what the -- possession of a legal gun is a felony, but how they're sentenced is up to the sentencing judge. I mean, but they can do state time. Mere possession of a gun alone 30 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 with anything -- assuming you had no 3 other prior convictions and you were otherwise eligible -- and this is one of the arguments the Commissioner and I objected to under the state law. If you're otherwise eligible to get a gun permit and you just fail to do so -- meaning you're carrying a gun out there illegally, you don't have a gun permit, but you just haven't gotten caught doing anything else -- the crime gets downgraded to a misdemeanor.

Okay. LT. HEALY: What that does is, that takes it out of the Common Pleas system and puts it into the Municipal Court system. So now, these persons who are just a trigger pull from a shooting, their crime has been downgraded to misdemeanor. We personally believe that that's a flaw in the system. Carrying an illegal gun, whether or not you're eligible to carry a permit or not, is a 31 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 felony and should be treated as such. We've argued that in previous hearings and we would still support that contention.

You have a lot work to do, don't you? LT. HEALY: We're working on it.

And I appreciate your efforts. LT. HEALY: Thank you.

And all of the Police Department. Are there any other questions of these witnesses? (No further questions.)

Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Thank you very much.

Next we'll have Diane Edbril from CeaseFire PA and Bryan Miller from CeaseFire NJ. (Witness come forward.) 32 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700

Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Good afternoon, Councilwoman. My name is Diane Edbril, and I'm here today on behalf of CeaseFire Pennsylvania, the commonwealth's leading organization dedicated to preventing gun violence. Thank you and all of the other members of City Council who, once again, are making the prevention of gun violence a priority in the work that you do. Today's proposals under consideration to require the safe-keeping of firearms in the home and mandating the reporting of lost and stolen weapons to the police would each be a significant step towards keeping guns, especially handguns, out of the wrong hands. While, admittedly, Pennsylvania 33 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 is a state with a long tradition of gun ownership, we must always strive to balance the rights of law-abiding individuals to owning used guns with the rights of all citizens to be free from the plague of violence that irresponsible or, worse yet, criminal activity leads to. Even though as a practical manner, many efforts by this thoughtful body are impeded by the State's preemption law, it is essential to keep making a record and to, as far as the law allows, try to address this deadly problem. CeaseFire PA commends you for your persistence and pledges to support your efforts in any and every way that we can. We are all familiar with the tragedies that ensue when a lawfully owned firearm that's improperly stored so that a curious youngster can get to it with little or no effort. The 34 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 proposed ordinance, 060804, would help raise awareness among lawful gun owners about proper storage practices and, through its penalty provisions, create a strong incentive for compliance. We understand that many Philadelphians want to keep a firearm in their home for self-protection, but given that a gun in the home is times 11 more likely to injure or kill a member 12 of that household than an outsider bent 13 on doing harm, it is essential that gun 14 owners lock their guns so that no child 15 or other unauthorized person can get to 16 them. 17 Even more powerful, in 18 CeaseFire view, would be the enactment 19 of Proposal 060700, an ordinance to 20 require the reporting of lost and stolen 21 firearms. " Under current state law, there is no penalty for failing to report a lost or stolen firearm, so it's an easy out for those who buy them through the illegal market, knowing full well that they will never be penalized, even if a gun they bought was used in a murderous rampage. Mandatory lost and stolen reporting would eliminate this easy out and make straw purchasers easier to prosecute when their actions have enabled someone else to get their hands on a gun for illegal purposes. I want to take a moment to address some of the remarks that came up in the contest of the previous witnesses' statements and questions and answers. As incredible as it is to believe, I think that the Councilman's questions about the motivations of 36 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 Congress were exactly on point, and I think for the last four or five years, all of us working in this area of public policy have seen a brazen and really outrageous rolling-back of all sorts of tools that law enforcement have to identify and pinpoint and go after illegal handgun traffickers. R. amendments," which are named for the member of Congress who introduced them. And for the last four years, in the appropriations bill that funds the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, information-sharing by agents of this organization have been prohibited, specifically prohibited, as a use of the funds that have been allocated to run the agency. Time and again, we've seen federal law enforcement's hands tied in whatever efforts of cooperating there have been trying to be made between the 37 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 state -- between states, between state and federal governments and between state and local governments.

When you look at patterns of gun violence here in Philadelphia, the sparse information that we have access to points to Pennsylvania as the primary-source state for the guns that are being used to commit crimes on the streets. Moreover, as I'm sure Bryan Miller will go into, Pennsylvania's guns are the number-one problem for people in New Jersey as well. Prior to moving to this state, I worked in the District Attorney's Office in Brooklyn, New York, and I can't tell you how many confessions I took where people said that they got their guns right here in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania ranks higher than the state of New York as the source for illegal handguns used in crimes in New York City. 38 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 We urge the members of this august body to work With city government throughout the region to come up with regional policies and efforts and coordinated campaigns to reduce illegal guns. The Pennsylvania General Assembly has not shown a willingness to respond to Philadelphia's gun violence crisis to date; we're hopeful for some changes in the future. However, it is essential that members of this body reach out to local governance throughout this state and throughout our neighboring states in the region to come together to put pressure on the legislators that do have it within their power to make larger steps and more effective steps to really combat the tide of illegal guns that are sweeping nation. I'll be happy to yield to Bryan Miller at this point and take any questions that you may have. 39 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700

Before you start, Mr. Miller, Councilman Kenney?

Who is T.R.?

That's the U.S. rep from Kansas.

What's his name.

Todd Tihart, T-I-H-A-R-T.

Okay, fine. That's it. Thank you.

Councilman, I'll be happy to send you a text of the amendments that he's attached to the appropriations bills.

Okay. Thank you. By the way, did the NRA openly support those appropriations bills?

Definitely.

So it's a bit hypocritical that they talk about 40 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 how they don't want gun control and they want law enforcement, so when law enforcement tries to go after the bad guys, they step in the way to try to keep the information from law enforcement. So this whole hypocrisy of "we only care about enforcing the laws" is pretty hollow.

We're very grateful that you understand that.

Yes, Mr. Miller?

I'm Bryan Miller from CeaseFire NJ, and just before I go over my prepared remarks, I see that Councilman Kenney may be leaving soon, I want to comment on one of his questions or points about where the guns come from. And the fact is, as Diane said, the guns that are recovered from crime in Pennsylvania overwhelmingly come from Pennsylvania. It's totally unlike all 41 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 the other states in the northeast. In all the other states, the guns came from somewhere else, but in Pennsylvania, not only did this come from Pennsylvania, but according to ATF data, they're generally covered within ten miles of the gun shop from where they were purchased, which is very, very unusual in the northeast. Pennsylvania, in many ways, has replaced Virginia, which used to be considered the supermarket for illegal guns on the east coast until they enacted the one-handgun-a-month law, and now Pennsylvania is that supermarket.

And with all due respect to the state legislature which has just changed hands to Democrat, and I respect those members there, including the potential future Speaker of the House, Bill DeWeese. If you've ever been in his office, there's a very large rug which is an emblem of the NRA symbol, which is 42 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 about as big as the middle of this floor here, so you can understand the cultural issues that we're up against when we talk about any kind of control, so...

Absolutely. We're -- although many people in this room are devoted to getting the message beyond Philadelphia because we need the whole state to be involved. In fact, every city and community of any size in the state suffers from the same gun violence that Philadelphia has. So we're optimistic that over time, we will change things and that we'll be able to succeed.

Thank you. And thank you, Madam Chair.

But we'll need your help.

I just want to make a comment on the remarks you just made. I was helping my daughter do a take-home-one-gun-a-month for a public 43 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 speaking assignment she had, and I was pretty shocked when we were doing the research at how many states Pennsylvania's gun laws or lack of laws really impact, and it was just a whole -- a whole list of states that actually are -- that would actually like to see Pennsylvania's gun laws tightened up, and it really kind of shocked me.

Well, that's why I'm here.

I know. I mean, you know, we always think about New Jersey, but when they start listing Detroit and so many other places, I was really astounded. So I'll be quiet and let you proceed with your testimony.

Thank you. As I said I'm Bryan Miller, and I'm the executive director of CeaseFire NJ. We're the Garden State's leading organization devoted to reducing gun violence, and I'm pleased for the 44 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 opportunity to address you today on Council Bill060700, which, in fact, is critical legislation for the citizens of Philadelphia and the neighboring jurisdictions. And you may wonder why this bill would concern the citizens of New Jersey, and the answer is simple: Because it's Pennsylvania's guns that are killing New Jerseyans. A few facts. There are no gun stores in the City of Camden, New Jersey, none. And this city was, until recently, described as "America's most dangerous" for two years in a row; it's now dropped to fifth, which is some help, I guess. Yet Camden has a very high rate of handgun homicides and aggravated assaults. The State of New Jersey has among the nation's strongest gun laws, which effectively prohibit the movement of guns from legal sale in New Jersey gun stores to illegal streets sales. 45 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 Straw purchasing, which you've heard about, which is the linchpin of gun-trafficking is virtually absent in the Garden State. Furthermore, New Jersey's relatively strict handgun-purchase system has led our state to enjoy one of the lowest per capita statewide gun violence rates in the country, and yet Camden remains one of the five most dangerous cities in the nation. We believe that it's because of Camden's proximity to Philadelphia, which is only a short bridge ride away. Gun-trace data from the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives show clearly that Pennsylvania is, by far, the main source state for crime guns recovered in Camden. In fact, not only is Pennsylvania the most important source in Camden, but Pennsylvania's share is growing dramatically. 46 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 According to the ATF data, guns from Pennsylvania accounted for 4 percent of crime guns traced in Camden 5 in the year 2000. By the year 2003, 6 Pennsylvania's portion had grown 7 to 32 percent and further 40 percent in 8 2004. 9 In contrast, the proportion of 10 Camden crime guns originally purchased 11 in New Jersey fell from 23 percent to 12 16, less than half of Pennsylvania's 13 share during the same period. 14 You hear and have heard from 15 other speakers about the mechanics of 16 the illegal-gun business, but it is 17 clear to those of us at CeaseFire NJ 18 that Pennsylvania's relatively weak gun 19 laws enable the creation, development, 20 and maintenance of illegal gun 21 trafficking rings, rings that supply 22 illegal guns to thugs, drug dealers, and 23 violent teens in Philadelphia, Chester, and in Camden. A May 2005 article in the 47 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 Philadelphia Daily News described a too-typical case of a Camden-based gun trafficker who repeatedly crossed the Ben Franklin Bridge and employed his honorary uncle to make numerous buys of several handguns at a time in Philadelphia and then returned to Camden to sell his ill-gotten gains on street corners. Clearly, the permanent disruption of the illegal handgun trafficking trade based upon Pennsylvania's weak laws and flourishing especially in Philadelphia is of prime importance to New Jersey. We believe that enactment of the lost or stolen reporting requirement would discourage straw buyers in Philadelphia from making bulk purchases to traffickers, which would shrink the supply and raise the price of illegal handguns, both in Philadelphia and in Camden. This would make it far less 48 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 likely that young men would be able to carry handguns than they do currently, which would likely mean fewer shootings, less death and injury. CeaseFire NJ urges City Council to pass this important legislation for the sake of the citizens in Philadelphia and in Jersey. Thank you.

Thank you. Do any members of the committee have any questions for this witness? (No questions.)

Thank you.

Thanks.

Thank you very much. The next witnesses are Shelly Yanoff, Executive Director of PCCY, and Harold Mr. Rosenthal. (Witnesses come forward.)

Please 49 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Good afternoon. I'm Shelly Yanoff off with Philadelphia Citizens for Children and Youth. Before I start, I just wanted to note that in a community survey that PHNC conducted a year-and-a-half ago, they found the following, and these were self-reported, okay? That among households with firearms in Philadelphia, nearly one in five did not use a trigger lock or have the firearms in a locked in place. Almost four out of ten household with firearms kept one or more guns loaded, among households with children who reported having firearms. So this is a lower count. One in ten did not keep their firearms locked. That's about 1600 households. And almost one in three did keep their firearms loaded, okay? 50 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 That's 5200 households. So that's a framework for thinking about this issue. Thank you very much for holding this hearing and for introducing this legislation. I want to thank you also for being persistent in your commitment to doing what you can to make this city safer for children and families. We've been seeking to improve the lives and life chances of the region's children for more than 15 years. During those years, we and City 16 Council have taken some major steps to 17 make this community a better place for 18 parents to raise children and for 19 children to grow up in. 20 We've been excited to 21 participate with Council and state and 22 city administrations in developing ways 23 the help parents keep their children 24 safe and improved in affordable 25 child-care spending. 51 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 We've been pleased to work with many of you to develop more after-school programs so that kids could be safer while their parents worked. We've been glad to work with our schools to make them safer and have successfully advocated for more family support and better child welfare programs so that children were safer in their homes. And we've worked with you to improve the libraries and recreation centers and the playgrounds to make this city a safer place for all of our children. And when we discovered the depth of the lead problem, we were pleased to work with you to take much of the lead out of children's homes and their child-care programs. Because of the work, we have made a major impact on keeping children safer. But we stand here today -- or 52 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 sit here -- to underscore that all of this means little unless we can take the guns out of our children's lives, for as we improve their child care, they can get caught in the crossfire of guns. As we take the lead out of their homes and make their schools safer, they can and do find guns in those homes that can, in a moment's notice, take their breath away. If people who could not buy a gun legally and can, quote, find one that's registered to someone else who's not reported it as lost or stolen, we are all vulnerable. Several years ago, a pediatrician that I know examined a toddler who suffered from rickets, a disease that we thought had all but disappeared in much of our world. This child was kept inside with little exposure to sunlight because of the parents' fear of guns. We also have known of many 53 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 youngsters who have been seriously traumatized by having seen or heard so many guns that they are afraid to go to their neighborhood playground, and when fear (discern) childhood, all of us suffer. We know, all of us, that we need to take many steps to make our children safer from many things, including. Guns. We know that good playgrounds and basketball courts diminish in appeal if they are in a neighborhood that can easily become a shooting gallery. And we know that one of the problems in limiting gun circulation is that currently, gun owners can deny that they give the gun to someone else; they can simply say it was stolen. This proposed new section of the safety amendment will at least treat guns as important to keep track of.

We support it and hope that it will become 54 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 a part of city and state law eventually. The other proposal before you presents a combination of a small step in common sense. The proposal simply says that adults have the responsibility to avoid possession and discharge of firearms by children. How many children have to be maimed before we take this action? The bills before you are a very small but important step and can have a big impact on children and their families as well as the grownups who live in the city. We urge that you support them. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Are there any questions for this witness? (No questions.)

Thank you. Okay, Mr. Rosenthal. 55 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700

Yes. Harold Rosenthal. I'm a Philadelphian. Thank you for this opportunity to testify on behalf of Bill 30630700 [sic]. First, I'd like to congratulate the new Councilperson, James Greenlee. Although he is an old participant in City Council --

Excuse me, Madam Chair. For the record, Mr. Rosenthal, I know you knew my uncle better; he's James. I'm William, okay? (Laughter.)

Uh, this bill, as Councilperson Clarke pointed out, I think will be the shoehorn to begin to change the atmosphere of the state in terms of this very, very serious problem that's been talked about by prior speakers. My wife, Sue Rosenthal, and I organized 45 people in March and we went into the legislative district of the 56 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 chair of the committee, the state committee, that's holding up a parallel bill to this and the bill to limit it to one handgun a month. And in two hours, we collected 2,039 signatures of people demanding that he move on those bills. Despite our meeting with him, nothing happened. Mayor Street, with his tremendous support and also with Loree Jones of his office and Lance Haver, helped to organize, which we participated in, a meeting in Harrisburg of 2,000 people calling for the moving of these two bills, a parallel bill to this one and the one-handgun-a-month bill, and we were totally ignored by the legislative body that was taking place inside. That's why I think Councilman Clarke may have the direction that he pointed out in his remark as to what this may do. I think passing this bill will 57 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 tell the new legislative body, which has, as Councilman Clarke mentioned, certain changes and to begin to recognize that this is not just a Philadelphia problem; it's a statewide problem. And as Bryan Miller pointed out, it is a problem that goes well beyond the confines of the State of Pennsylvania. We've got to move these bills. By passing this particular bill, I think that the State will begin to recognize that it has to come up and also move this bill and the one-handgun-a month bill. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Thank you. Councilman Greenlee?

Thank you. Very quickly. Mr. Rosenthal, or maybe the chair or somebody else can answer this. 58 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 I mean, some of these bills are -- I certainly support the concept of all of what you're doing, but you at least can see some rationale of why there's opposition to some of it. I might not agree with the opposition, but I understand it. The failure to report a lost or stolen firearm, when you were going around lobbying, what could possibly be the rationale for opposing a thought like that or an act like that?

Councilman, it was even crazier than that. We had members, when we were running this petition drive, members of the NRA, who came up to us and asked us, why are we against guns? And we pointed out to them that we are not against guns, but we are only talking about the illegal sale of handguns. What we're really dealing with is a wholesale market because an 59 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 individual has right to buy a gun, can buy as many guns as he wants to, put them in the trunk of his car, go to the nearest school or whoever, and sell them at a profit. That's what this bill and the one-handgun-a-month bill will do. It will cut out wholesale trade because you can't make a living if all you can do is buy one handgun a month, all right? What I'm saying is that members of the NRA who approached us agree that this bill and the one-handgun-a-month bill are good bills. You don't use handguns to hunt and you don't use rifles to kill people and hold up; that doesn't normally happen. So what we're dealing with really is what was pointed out in that carpet of the potential new Speaker of the House, the NRA. That's really what's behind it. That's what was pointed out was behind some of the problems that 60 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 Councilperson Kenney pointed out in terms of the restrictions on the federal government on the FDA's ability to pass information. It's even worse than that. They are now limited to only being able to make one visit to a licensed handgun dealer a year, so if you're a licensed handgun dealer and they come in and examine you in January, you have a free run for 11 months to do what you want to 'cause they're not allowed to come back by Congressional (indiscernible). So there's a lot to be done, and what I'm saying is, I think what you're doing is the first olive out of the bottle, the shoehorn, whatever bromide you want to use, that may eventually embarrass the state legislature to pass this and the one-handgun-a-month bill so that we can begin to save the lives of children.

I agree and I thank you for your comments. 61 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 And I think part of it is, you know, Councilman Greenlee, is that they just keep saying that these bills impinge on their second-amendment rights, the right to bear arms. We're not saying you can't bear arms. We're just saying that instead of 100 guns a month, maybe you could only buy a year, one gun a month. 11 And it's Democratic and 12 Republican, so it's not the party.

But I guess my point is, Madam Chair -- and I certainly agree with you, but when you were saying that you lose a firearm or it's stolen, what the heck is wrong with putting that on the record? I mean, you know, unless you're taking it to the Nth degree and saying well, then that could be resold.

Well, obviously, illegally resold.

I mean, I don't get that at all. 62 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700

Okay. Councilman Rizzo.

I sat in on all of those meetings in Harrisburg.

Yes, you did.

I was with many of the people that I considered very rude to us. And I saw no fight on the requirement to report the stolen gun. I think that there was the possibility of that -- some movement there. So I just wanted to make sure that that part, I think, could happen. You know, I'm a little confused, and I apologize if I'm wrong. Did you just say that the Speaker of the House had an NRA rug? That was not the Speaker of the House.

No, the new --

The potential new Speaker --

No, it was not. I was there at the meeting. 63 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 It was a Philadelphia State senator that had the NRA carpet in his office, and because he did not want to be rude to the delegation, we moved the meeting from his office to an office where it was more appropriate. So I don't want to name names, but I just wanted to tell you that it was A democratic state senator that had the rug on his floor that said "NRA." So it's -- and I apologize if I'm wrong.

And I apologize. I was simply repeating the words of Councilman Kenny. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)

And that person was a good friend of the Councilman that had that NRA rug.

Yeah, yeah. The NRA is a pervasive organization. It's really what is behind the entire situation. 64 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700

Right. And there are members from both sides of the aisle, very strong, ardent members. And we've talked to them.

Absolutely. And there's a lot of work to be done, and many of us are going to continue the work until the state understands its responsibility.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. Next we'll have Mark Harrell and Mothers in Charge. Okay, Mark evidently left, I guess. Oh, he's coming back? So who's going to testify... (Witnesses come forward.)

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. My name is Sherri Ryan. I am a member of 65 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 Mothers in Charge, an organization of mothers, aunts, sisters, cousins who have all lost -- mostly have lost children to the senseless violence in the streets of Philadelphia. I would like to say that Mothers in Charge supports these two bills because anything or any bill or legislation that can be passed that would help save the lives of the children, we support that. Mothers charge, we are out here doing all we can to bring down the numbers of deaths. We go to schools and talk to children about the gun safety, we talk to their parents; we talk to anybody that will listen concerning gun safety, and these bills fall right in line with that. We also talked to the students, and we ask the students: How available, how available are guns? And they're very available to them. So we know that if we cut that 66 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 number down, if they're not available, then they can't use the guns. We come here all the time. I'm here every time there's a gun legislation or a gun bill to be passed. We are here. We bring our signs, we bring our tears. You know, I'm kind of like tired of begging for someone to do something to help with this situation here. We have to do something. And I know the NRA's a big organization, I know that, but they have not suffered what we have suffered. So all we could do is depend on the people who are introducing these bills to go there and really fight for these bills to be passed. We're tired of going to funerals. I'm tired of wearing these buttons every day. Something has got to be done. And we appeal to everyone. Councilperson Clarke and Councilperson Miller, we thank you for 67 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 bringing these bills up. And we support those bills. We need help and we want to help you, and we need you to help us. We are on this battlefield and we are going to stay on this battlefield until we bring these numbers down, until we get these bills passed.

We have a long fight ahead, but we do appreciate you coming in. And you're right; you come every time. Every time we ask you, you're right here. And it's just a hard battle. Eighty percent of Philadelphia voters voted at the referendum to let Philadelphia control its own gun laws, but our fight is at the state; you know that.

Mm-hmm.

You've been a part of it. So we have to just continue to fight. And maybe we need to get more people. I mean, if Mr. Rosenthal passed 68 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 a petition in the state senator's district and acquired more than 2,000 signatures, then that, to me, should send a message to that state senator, but evidently, it's not. So we just have to keep doing things like that, you know, and bring it to the public's attention.

If I may. We're going to be doing it in other legislative districts.

Okay. You're next young lady.

Yes. My name is Teresa Brunson, I'm the Mothers in Charge Director of Community Education, and I would just briefly like to thank Councilwoman Reed-Miller and Councilman Clarke for proposing this legislation. Before I started working with Mothers in Charge, I was a prosecutor in the D.A.'s Office for ten years, and so I saw a lot of the gun cases go by the wayside because, as someone previously 69 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 said, it would be knocked down to misdemeanors, even though the legislature enacted the law for it to be a felony offense. And so I just appreciate any effort that City Council is putting forth now to address the gun issue in the city because they are -- we all know what the problem is, and it is hard for prosecutors whose hands are tied by the way the laws are sort of imposed by the judge. And so we appreciate any efforts that are being put forth to try to strengthen or give teeth to the legislation that exists for prosecutors in this city.

Thank you. We appreciate the help that groups like Mothers in Charge and Men United and so many other groups that are out and all of the individuals that are helping in this battle, because it's 70 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 certainly something that we have to fight as a coalition against and not separately, so we also appreciate your support. And City Council basically has been on board, and we pass these bills, and the fight is in Harrisburg; we've been saying this for a while now. Any questions for these witnesses?

I've got a question for Councilman Clarke.

Thank you.

Okay. Councilwoman Brown has a question.

Thank you, Madam Chairlady. Good afternoon, ladies. Let me appeal, plead, beg you not to become discouraged. Your leadership on this issue really helps create the net or the web that's needed going forward. We at government for sure, obviously, cannot do it alone, and it's really going to 71 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 take partnerships like Mothers in Charge and Men United for a Better Philadelphia and others, A, who get it; but, B, are willing to work collectively incrementally inch by inch going forward. So do not become discouraged. We have to continue to raise the voice for very, very obvious reasons, because every day you find another child in the paper who was at a place we don't want him to be. We need your good work. Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay. Councilman Rizzo.

I have a question for Councilman Clarke.

Councilma n Clarke?

Did earlier you allude to something that we're looking at to possibly do something, something, that we might not need 72 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 Harrisburg? And have we looked at every -- Councilwoman Miller, have we looked at every possibility that wouldn't need enabling legislation out of Harrisburg?

Yes, Councilman. One of the bills we're hearing today, 04, we believe -- i.e., the drafters of the bill in the Law Department believe that we're not required to have state authorization that talks about the possession of handguns. There are two issues as it relates to children possession handguns. One, there is currently a criminal penalty associated with the possession of handguns by a minor. Our bill talks about a penalty associated with the adult who was the responsible party for that particular minor. There is no preemption currently, and I'm hoping that someone from the state doesn't run out and try 73 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 to put a preemption on us trying to impose a penalty on that adult. Additionally, based on an amendment that we will be offering on this whole issue, the state preemption talks about it prevention; it does not talk about handling. So if a young person handles a gun, picks up a gun on a momentary basis, there is no state preemption for us to impose a penalty on that particular issue, so we will be offering an amendment that incorporates the language of handling in this particular bill. And we believe under the current law, under the state -- current state statute, we locally and municipally are in a position to impose on an adult that allows a child to handle a firearm.

I appreciate your hard work and surely the attorneys that developed that strategy. And hopefully there may be more that we can 74 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 do that doesn't require Harrisburg's seal of approval.

Correct. And it is our hope if, somehow, the state views this as a preemptive issue, it is our hope that the city will move ahead and start to enforce this bill. At the end of the day if it requires us, the City, being in court as a defendant, I think that's acceptable since we've not been able to get in, to date, as a plaintiff. And so at the end of the, day if we have an opportunity to be involved in litigation, I welcome it either as a defendant or as a claimant.

Thanks for your effort, Councilman Clarke.

You're welcome.

Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions for these witnesses? 75 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 (No further questions.)

Thank you. Thank you for coming. Mark, are you ready? (Witnesses come forward.)

Please identify yourself, and proceed with your testimony.

My name is Mark Harrell, and I'm Executive Director for Men United for a Better Philadelphia.

Mitch Little, facilitator for Concerned Men of Pointe Breeze. I'm also the area coordinator for (inaudible).

Good afternoon, Chairwoman Reed-Miller and other members of the Public Safety Committee and other members of Council. " First and foremost, I want to say that on behalf of Men United a for 76 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 Better Philadelphia, we are in support of the proposed amendment entitled "Failure to Report Loss or Stolen Firearms," which will require the prompt notification of loss or stolen firearms, with penalties, especially in light of the fact that the ATF's intelligence shows that Philadelphia is source a city for firearms used in crimes that were previously reported lost or stolen, in crimes across the country. We are also here to testify in support of the proposed amendment in Section 10-834 entitled "Responsibility to Avoid Possession and Discharge of Firearms by Children," which prohibits adults from allowing children to have unsupervised access to firearms. Nearly all childhood unintentional shootings deaths occurred in and around homes. Most childhood unintentional shooting deaths involve guns that are kept loaded and accessible to children. Most children are killed 77 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 or kill other children while playing with handguns that are found in their homes or the homes of families or friends. One study found that 54 percent of handguns were stored unlocked, and another 30 percent were kept unloaded, and an additional percent were kept 10 both locked and loaded -- both unlocked 11 locked and loaded. 12 A gun in a home is 43 times 13 more likely to kill a family member or a friend than used in self-defense. One study found that when a gun was in the home, 80 percent of young children knew where the gun was kept. And of the gun owners, 85 percent say that they never worry about someone in their home being injured by a gun. The cost of these incidents can be phenomenal. One study showed that the average hospital charges for treating a child with a firearm injury was more than 14,000. 7 billion. And among 5 children ages 14 and under, 6 unintentional firearm injuries account 7 for more than half of the total cost of 8 all firearm injuries. 9 Nearly two-thirds of firearm- 10 owning parents of school-aged children 11 believe they keep their firearms safely 12 away from their children. However, one 13 study found that when a gun was in the 14 home, 75 to 80 percent of 1st- and 2nd-graders knew where it was kept. Few children under the age of eight can reliably distinguish between real and toy guns or fully understand the consequences of their actions, yet children as young as three are strong enough to pull the trigger of many handguns. This is one of the reasons why I bring one of our members, Mr. Mitch Little, to testify with me today. 79 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 When we go into schools and the classrooms, we ask young people, How many of you can put your hands on a firearm if you had to today or tomorrow? An overwhelming number of youths raise their hands, well over 50 percent. In some classrooms, it's like 90 percent of the young people -- whether it's in the elementary school or middle school or high school -- raise their hands to say that they can put their hands on a handgun. Some say, Well, do the children know how to use a handgun? They know how to use it, and they can practice using it. One of the parents of the young men in a program that Mr. Little oversees in South Philadelphia brought to his attention a situation that's happening all over the city right now, where young people are purchasing toy handguns that look like real handguns. They're spray-painting these 80 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 handwritings, and they're so realistic that we weren't even allowed to bring the full item into the City Council chambers today to show you the full impact of what this looks like.

This is an opportunity for children to practice using these handguns so that when they get the real handgun that they know how to get, they know where they are, and they have access to, it's no problem for them to use it. I'm going to ask Mr. Little to demonstrate what we were able to bring into the chambers to show you how realistic it is for these young people and how easy it is for these young people to access this item.

This item here is a toy pellet gun. It is a replica of a true model handgun, Six Sawyer, P223 -- 230, all right? The pellet gun comes equipped with a clip, a fire and a safety button, 81 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 a clip release. You would load the clip as you would a handgun and cock back on it. I don't know if heard that sound, but sounds just like a regular handgun cocking back, okay? A father brought this in; his child purchased this on his own at Wal-Mart, at years old, at 11 years 10 old. 11 Children all across the city are painting these guns black so that they look like the real thing. There's no stopper in front, there's no writing on it that says this is a toy, a toy manufacturer. It actually has all of the detailed writing of an actual handgun, and it even has some weight to it. Young people are firing this at passing cars, pulling it out on the street. They're riding their bikes with the handle of the gun exposed. It is a very serious situation, and we think it's a threat to public safety as well. 82 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 That young person at years old was so enthralled with his new purchase, that he went back -- he earned a little bit more money and went back and brought his seven-year-old a .25-caliber version of that handgun

How much 9 are they? 10

About $23. About 11 16 to $23.

The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.

What genius entrepreneur makes these guns? Is it one particular company that came up with this, or do many do this?

I was not able to, in the short time that we had in looking for the manufacturer. It would not go into further detail other than it's an overseas manufacturer. It is -- it would be very interesting if legitimate gun companies did not have something to do with it, 83 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 just from its markings alone. If you look on line at the actual version of the 6R in this model, it's an exact replica of this model of gun.

And you said this one could be purchased at Wal-Mart?

Or K-Mart.

Or K-Mart? I was going to say, are there are a lot of other stores that sell them?

We've researched Wal-Mart and K-Mart in the Philadelphia area, and they also have them on in stock, on line.

Thank you. Councilman Rizzo?

I might need the Police Department. This fires a projectile?

A pellet.

A pellet. I 84 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 believe we have -- I remember growing up and wanting a BB gun really bad and couldn't get one because they were illegal. And I would assume that the ordinance that's already on the books should cover this gun, this handgun, unless it's limited to long guns. I think that we need to amend -- is it a BB projectile? Or when you say "a pellet," what exactly comes out of this thing? Can it be hurtful?

It could be, it could be. There are fully automatic versions. There are handgun semiautomatic versions like that. Some of the versions hold up to 99 BBs or pellets.

And I don't want to blindside the lieutenant or the Council, but could someone answer the question? We have an ordinance on the books that prohibits -- could Lieutenant 85 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 Healy come to the desk? (Witness comes forward.)

Are the pellets soft rubber or hard rubber?

They're hard plastic.

Hard plastic.

Maybe that's the loophole. The point is, BB guns are illegal in the City of Philadelphia; is that correct? LT. HEALY: To the best of my knowledge, yes. It's air rifles or air projectiles, which would be BB's or light pellets. The introduction of a plastic pellet, I don't think, would usurp the law. It's still an air projectile, which should be prohibited under the current ordinance.

So it would be important -- we don't want to dump on K-Mart or Wal-Mart, but hopefully they 86 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 are aware or not aware that they might be selling something that's illegal; is that correct? LT. HEALY: They may not be aware. I know they don't carry BB guns or air rifles, per se. This may be actually going under the radar 'cause it's a toy of sorts versus an air rifle or an air pistol.

So we need, I guess, to get either the Police Department's legal opinion or a Law Department opinion on whether or not this is -- LT. HEALY: Prohibited under the statute.

Exactly. If not, we need to do an amendment to bring this into that. LT. HEALY: If it's shooting a projectile -- I mean there's no -- in this current ordinance it makes no 24 determination of what a projectile is. I mean, we'll come up with a legal 87 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 definition of what we believe, but --

Excuse me. Lieutenant, you need to identify yourself. LT. HEALY: I'm sorry. Lieutenant Healy once again from the Philadelphia Police Commissioner's Office.

And an attorney for the Police Department. LT. HEALY: So I would believe that to be illegal personally.

You believe it be illegal? LT. HEALY: Right.

We'll sure look into it.

And if you can remember the days of Philadelphia when zip guns were the gun of choice in gangs in the City of Philadelphia, anything with a spring action, loaded action can be converted to shoot bullets. So, I mean, we need to take that into 88 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060700 consideration as well. And in closing, I also just want to say that some parents think that their children aren't at risk because they don't own guns. Others think their kids are safe because they do own guns, and their kids know the rules. The truth, is all children are potentially at risk of unintentional firearm injury and intentional firearm injury. However, knowing how or why injuries occur and taking action like these laws will do can substantially reduce that risk. I want to thank you for inviting us to testify today, and I'm looking forward to continued doing the work that needs to be done with your support.

Thank you. Thank you for coming. And we certainly appreciate your support. Are there any other questions of these witnesses? 89 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 (No further questions.)

Okay. Seeing none, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for all of your hard work. Is there anyone else here to testify on these two weapons bills? (No response.)

Seeing none, we will move on to the next bill.

We're going to move back to 060441, an ordinance amending Chapter 10-300 of the Philadelphia Code entitled "Minors" by amending the hours of the curfew for minors and by amending the enforcement provisions, including, but not limited to increasing the penalties for minors who violate the provisions of the chapter and for parents and operators of establishments who knowingly permit minors to violate the chapter and by making technical 90 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 changes, all under certain terms and conditions.

Okay. Thank you. Our first witness is Dr. Arthur Evans. (Witnesses come forward.)

Could you state your name for the record. And proceed with your testimony.

Good afternoon. I'm Dr. Arthur C. Evans, Acting Commissioner for the Department of Human Services. I have with me Mr. Ron George, who is the project manager for our curfew, truancy, and violence prevention programs.

Please proceed.

I want to thank you, and I had intended to testify both on the truancy legislation as well as the curfew legislation. I want to first thank you for 91 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 the opportunity to speak in support of the bills sponsored by Councilmembers Reynolds-Brown, DiCicco, Miller, Kenney, and Clarke, which amends the hours and enforcement provisions of the City's curfew laws. The escalating wave of violent crime in Philadelphia is a complex and intractable problem for which there is no single cause and no single solution. It is a crisis that we as a city must attack on all fronts, with multiple responses and approaches. While more stringent curfew laws alone will not solve this problem, they do represent a proactive approach that engages police, the social services community, parents, and young people themselves in stemming the tide of violence perpetrated by and against youth. I'm going to abridge my comments for the sake of time, but you have my full testimony for the record. 92 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 By enabling police to pick up curfew violators, these laws help us to identify youths at greatest risk for involvement in violence. Through the city's new curfew centers, we can then link these youths and their families to needed social services and supports as well as to academic, recreational, job-readiness, and another delinquency- prevention programs. Another thing that we know about reducing juvenile delinquency and violence is that parents play a crucial role. The proposed law imposes more stringent penalties on parents of youths in violation of curfew and would, therefore, provide strong motivation for parents to become more actively involved in monitoring their children's behavior. We recognize that there are costs associated with extending the curfew hours for young people in Philadelphia. Enforcing this law will not only require more police staffing, 93 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 but will also mean expanded hours of operation for the city's curfew centers. If the curfew hours are extended to p.m -- or 9 a.m, costs to 6 run to the city's six planned curfew 7 centers will increase by 120,000 to 8 $150,000. 9 There will be additional costs if we open the curfew centers seven days a week during the summer, as planned. We, however, feel that the benefits of these laws far outweigh the costs. In the few months since its enactment, the city's curfew enforcement initiative is already having a positive effect in the community. Residents have expressed that their communities are quieter as a result of the significant decrease in youth out after curfew hours. In addition, more at-risk youth are being identified and linked to services. Since July, 577 youth have been picked up by the Police Department 94 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 for violating the curfew during weekend nights. And 184 of those youth have received an intake assessment and a behavioral-health assessment at the Curfew Center. The children of the city represent our future. We must take every possible precaution to keep them safe. Amending the curfew laws is one approach that represents a logical component of a comprehensive strategy for ending the cycle of violence. We, therefore, encourage you to enact this bill. Thank you. If there are no questions, I would like to testify on the truancy bill.

I'm sorry. Say that again.

If there are no 23 questions, I would also like to testify on the truancy bill by Councilman Clarke. 95 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441

All right. Well, that bill is going to be held today.

Okay.

Are you going to testify, sir?

No. He's with me in case there are questions about operation of the Curfew Center.

Okay. Are there any questions of these witnesses? (No questions.)

We had a meeting in my district to do an additional curfew center, and I was just really shocked to know that there are actually volunteers that -- I mean, I knew it was a call for volunteers, but there are people that man those centers from 10 p.m. until 6 a.m. And that, you know, it's really great to hear that the adult volunteers are really living up to their commitment to actually be there 96 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 overnight. That's not easy.

It is not. And we have been pleasantly surprised at people's commitment, not only initially, but they have remained committed. We've had over 60 people to volunteer. They're there, as you said, really overnight. They come consistently on most shift. There are two to three people and sometimes as many as five or six people who are there volunteering. And it has had the added benefit of the community being much more engaged in the issues and the problems that these young people face. So that's been an unexpected benefit of doing this.

Okay. That's really great. I thought it was really good.

A follow-up question, Madam Chairlady.

Yes. 97 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441

The truancy program is being run out of which department, the Managing Director's Office, the DHS, the School District? Where?

The truancy or the curfew?

Truancy.

Truancy -- the lead is really the Managing Director's Office but there are a number of departments that are involved in that, including Behavioral Health, DHS, and others.

And the curfew centers?

The same thing, although DHS is really the lead agency in the operation of the centers.

Okay, then. Thank you very much for your testimony.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. 98 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441

Any other questions?

One real quick question. How many curfew centers are there?

Currently, there is one. There's a plan to expand it to six in January.

That's right.

Identify yourself for the record.

I'm sorry. Ronald George, Department of Human Services, Project Manager for Violence Prevention Initiatives. We currently have one curfew center that will start in South Philadelphia in July. We will open up an additional five curfew centers in January of 2007. And the goal is to open up an additional six and bring it up to twelve by July of 2007 to cover the entire city.

And the 99 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 ones that are being opened in January, where are they, roughly?

Well, one is in my district.

Actually, I do have the list.

To distribute?

Yes. What we did was, we targeted the areas that had the highest numbers of shootings. In conjunction with the Police Department, we looked at the areas where there were the most shootings throughout the city, and those are the areas that are getting these curfew centers first.

Can you tell us where? Do you have the list with you?

Yeah. In general, in the 12th Police District; the 15th Police District; the 22nd and 23rd, which are north, which is the third center; the 39th Police District, which 100 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 will include three sectors of the 35th, which will be the fourth center; and fifth area is the 25th Police District, inclusive of P sector for the 24th District.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other questions? (No further questions.)

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for your testimony. Lt. Healy. (Witnesses come forward.)

Hi. Identify yourself. LT. HEALY: Good afternoon. My name is Francis Healy, and I'm Special Advisor for Police Commissioner Johnson. 101 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 At the outset, thank you for letting us, the Philadelphia Police Department, comment on this legislation. Let me just say that the intent of this legislation is fully supported by the Philadelphia Police Department, without a doubt. There's no higher duty for both City Council and for the Police Department than the protection of our children. Accordingly, I would like to respectfully take the time to address each part of the amendment and comment on how it would affect police actions on the street. While I believe most of the amendments would simplify the curfew procedure, there are some amendments that could interfere with police operations or reduce current discretion available to police officers, and I'll touch on them briefly, and I don't think they're major obstacles. The first obvious change in the 102 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 ordinance would be the bifurcation of curfew times between minors under 4 years of age and those at ages 13 to 17. 5 This is an excellent idea. 6 As we all know, children under 7 the age of 13 have no business being out 8 and about late at night. While they are 9 clearly targeted by adults due to their 10 immaturity, they are -- they also 11 succumb to the peer pressure of older 12 juveniles. 13 As a case in point, I recently attended a hearing for a friend's child who's 12 years old, who was caught setting small fires behind a bowling alley up in the Northeast. " And that drives home, I think, the importance of this program. Consequently, the bifurcated curfew times between very young children and the older juveniles is a very good 103 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 idea. Now let me just turn now to the conduct of the parents. The proposed amendments drastically simplify the requirements of parents in the city, which is definitely a good thing, so they understand what their obligations are. However, in the course of simplifying the legislation, a valuable exemption currently in the code seems to have been lost. This exemption, which is currently Chapter 10, Section 304, Subsection 3, has been completely deleted. Specifically, this provision allows for an exemption to any parent who accompanies a minor or to a parent who directs a minor upon an errand or other legitimate business or to a parent of a minor engaged in gainful, lawful employment during curfew hours. As we all know, nothing is absolute; and exemptions, while not the norm, should 104 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 be available in any well-balanced legislation. Next is, the responsibility of the owners and operators of establishments has been simplified. This, too, is a very good thing. Individuals who personally profit off of juveniles after curfew hours should be held accountable. While these operators may be able to somewhat protect juveniles in their facilities in the same manner as they could any other business invitee, they have no control once a juvenile leaves. Establishments that are known to cater to minors after curfew hours, in essence, create an attractive nuisance. They imminently endanger the children who frequent these locations. As such, the Police Department believes the increased penalty provisions and the possibility of a business license revocation are entirely appropriate and suitable. 105 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 I'm turning now to the enforcement issues surrounding the proposed amendments. I understand that there's been much concern on how the police will enforce a bifurcated curfew system. Most of the concerns I've heard involve whether such a system would, as a consequence, require children to carry identification. This is not the case whatsoever. The police currently enforce the curfew ordinance without any such requirements and will be able to continue to do so even with a bifurcated system.

Nothing has really changed from a police perspective. We're currently enforcing the under-17-years-of-age requirement without requiring all juveniles to carry identification. The same will hold true in the proposed version. Before a police officer can transport or cite an individual, even a 106 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 child -- more importantly, a child -- probable cause must exist. Probable cause are facts and circumstances which would lead the police officer to believe the individual has committed or committing an offense or a violation. Thus, an officer on the street must do an investigation, no matter how brief, to determine if the child is in violation of the curfew laws; whether they're under or over 13, it makes no 13 difference. 14 The difference will be those 15 stops by police based on reasonable 16 suspicion. As it stands, police 17 officers are justified in stopping a person after curfew hours if he reasonably believes they are less than 18 years of age. m. during the week and 12:00 midnight on the weekends. As a result of the proposed amendment, the police would now be authorized to 107 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 stop minors who they reasonably believe are less than years of age after 4 9 o'clock during the week and after 5 10 o'clock on the weekends. 6 If, after the investigation, a 7 child is in violation of the ordinance, 8 appropriate action will be taken; but if 9 the child is older than 13, he would 10 promptly be released, just as if he were 11 an adult in the old scenario. 12 Turning lastly to the 13 penalties. The Department supports the overall increase in penalties for any violation of the curfew code. As I mentioned, the increase in penalties for business owners is completely appropriate. The Department would only offer one suggestion. As it stands, minors who violate the curfew law can be sentenced to community service in lieu of monetary fines. This is a great provision. However, it may serve the 108 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 purpose of these overall amendments to include such a provision for the parents as well. The reasoning is twofold: Many parents in the city will not be able to afford the fines, and those that can may just write a check without any care whatsoever. Accordingly, the availability of community service should also be available to parents. Parents who cannot afford these fines can avoid becoming scofflaws, and parents with means will need to sacrifice valuable time. Both can have a positive impact on the minors who actually caused the problem for their parents. Actually knowing the parent has to do manual labor because of their actions may go much farther than any fine that could be levied. I would like to make one more suggestion, actually, which is certainly going to need work, and this is actually 109 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 from personal experience as well. There are many parents in the city who have uncontrollable children, quite frankly. There single parents torn between making a living and being home, trying to take care of their children. These are impossible situations. In these situations, resources should be available to the parent to help them. Continually fining the parents of an uncontrollable minor is really pointless, and we need to give those parents additional help, and I'm not really sure where the help should come from, but it should be recognized. Mostly, I think this is probably the biggest impacts on the Police Department. The proposed amendment has deleted one of the options that is currently available to police officers on the street, which we believe is critical in effectively enforcing the actual ordinance. 110 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 Specifically, the current ordinance allows police officers, among other things, to order the minor to go home immediately. Under the proposal, this discretion has been removed.

In essence, the police officer must transport the minor home or to a police station for processing. While this may seem petty, we must be remembering that we're dealing with children who are incredibly impressionable and who range widely in maturity. Many times officers on the street know which children will go home as home and those that will not. Forcing all children into a police car, when many could more easily run home, serves no purpose. Taking this discretion away from the officer is akin to taking an element of the force away. It's an element the officers use on the street, and we're actually taking a tool. " This make a very big difference on the street. I would strongly recommend that this discretion remain in the proposed ordinance, especially since we will be dealing with younger and younger children as a result of the bifurcated system. As I mentioned at the beginning, there is no higher duty for both City Council and the Police Department than to protect our children, so the Police Department fully supports the intent of this legislation and hopes this committee will support some of the minor recommendations suggested prior to any passage. This concludes my testimony. And, obviously, I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Thank 112 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 you. Thank you for testifying. Councilwoman Reynolds-Brown.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, and thank you for the support of this bill. One of the critical factors for consideration is the potential impediment in the enforcement of the curfew measures. LT. HEALY: Right.

So has the Department looked at that? Because only then does it mean anything. LT. HEALY: Correct. Councilwoman, quite frankly, the change in the ages makes no distinction for the Police Department. We enforce the current ordinance, which is 17 and under, and we don't require -- there's no mandatory requirement for anyone to have identification on their persons. So officers will make stops after the curfew hour based on a 113 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 reasonable suspicion. Basically, if the kid looks like a young kid, then he gets stopped. If he proves to be an adult, he's released. If not, he's taken in. And if later it's determined that he's a juvenile, he's released.

Okay. LT. HEALY: Oftentimes, our police officers on the street are much smarter than a lot of people give them credit for. They do the brief investigation on the street, they throw a few dates out there: "When were you born?"

Okay. LT. HEALY: It's very easy to trip up a juvenile. The next thing you know, they're saying they're 42 years old, and you got 'em there. So that's really not a problem.

Okay. LT. HEALY: I don't think it will be any harder. It actually may be a little easier with the younger 114 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 children 'cause they're not quite as quick with the math yet.

Then the second question is around establishments honoring the measures of this legislation. A is, you know, we can't hold anyone responsible for that which we have not brought to their attention. So whose responsibility is it to make sure establishments are aware of this? And then the enforcement: Where's the trigger for L&I? LT. HEALY: I think the trigger of this legislation. The enactment of this legislation is public notice of what's expected of all business owners and entities in the city. Once this gets enacted and passed, this is public knowledge right here. There's no ignorance of the law; it's not acceptable. So what would happen is -- and I'm sure after the first couple of 115 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 times, there's going to be warnings issued; we're not looking to crush business owners from doing their business, but we also don't want these juveniles to be congregating in certain places. And everyone in the neighborhood knows where to go after midnight, the young kids.

Mm-hmm. LT. HEALY: And we understand that that attracts the problems, that attracts the shootings, the violence that happens to these children. So I think once the word's out through this hearing, once the legislation is passed, the public press, that is notice that this is in effect. Once it's passed, it's published in, I believe, several papers, and that gives it all the notification we need to enforce -- from L&I's perspective as well as the Police Department's. 116 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441

Thank you for the response. The Police Department notifies L&I that an establishment is open beyond the hours stipulated in this bill? LT. HEALY: Well, luckily for the city, both entities have equal enforcement authority under the code.

Oh. LT. HEALY: This is a business. Businesses obviously can enforce -- I'm sorry. L&I can obviously enforce any business regulations set on business, but as an overall blanket, the Police Department is also equally able to enforce. All along --

So the Police Department can give a fine to a business that's open beyond the hours in this -- LT. HEALY: We can, yes. We can cite them. Now, the question is: Will we be giving them a code violation 117 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 notice?

Okay. LT. HEALY: So we're not going to be handcuffing anybody and taking 'em in to headquarters, but we are authorized to issue code violation notices, and we actually have begun doing them for some of the takeout places that are in residential zones --

Okay. LT. HEALY: -- that stay open past 11 o'clock.

Okay. Then, lastly, does the Police Department maintain a record, a log of some kind that speaks to the activity you just described so that we can see what the future looks like based on records? LT. HEALY: The Police Department as a whole doesn't track businesses that allow minors to frequent. The captains in each division are held accountable through the COMPSTAT process, and they often very 118 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 well know where the problems are. And actually decentralizing the authority of the captain to be able to spot kids problems -- "hot areas," I'll say is really the best manner. Because if it was done downtown in my office, it's kind of sanitized.

Sure. LT. HEALY: The captain on the street, he deals with the issues, 'cause a lot of times, the crime problems are going to emanate from these locations.

Okay. LT. HEALY: So he's come to me in the past, saying, "I have problems here," and we're doing that now with some of the takeout locations that stay open past 11:00. We're using that creatively, making sure we have the residential block base. And if they're in that residential block base, takeouts have to close at 11:00.

And so do you keep a record of how many times you 119 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 get a phone call that "Establishment X" is staying open past -- LT. HEALY: Yeah, I can do a repeat-call analysis through my police radio system.

Okay. LT. HEALY: Like the captains will do that. And, actually, for domestic violence situations, all types of situations, the victim-assistance officers in the districts will track certain things 'cause they will see the same numbers coming up on their district control report numbers. And what they'll do is, if there's numerous calls from one location, the victim-assistance officer will go to that house to see if there's anything proactively that he or she can do. The same thing can be done with this as well.

Uh-huh. 120 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 Okay. All right then. Okay. I'll leave it there the from now. A year from now, we'll look to see what the impact has been of this measure. Thanks again for your testimony. LT. HEALY: If we alone cite it, I can probably track the citations that we wrote, but it will probably be not just the Police Department; it will also be L&I, so my numbers may not be completely accurate.

The beauty of that is, if you track what you just described and then you stack that against what's happening with young people in that area -- are there fewer homicides? is there less truancy? are you arresting many more young people around curfew? -- then you can see some connect, some thread of impact. Do you follow me? LT. HEALY: Absolutely. And 121 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 actually, that's the heart and soul of our COMPSTAT process.

Okay. LT. HEALY: What happens, the captains are held, as Councilman Rizzo's well aware, very accountable, and it's geographically. What happens is, every week, hot districts are put on the screen and then you can see the hot areas.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. LT. HEALY: And the captain says, "Listen, you've had the same problem for three weeks. What are you doing?" And what happens is, the captains are becoming extremely creative and coming out and are actually reaching out to lawyers like myself to turn around and say, "Listen, here's my problem. Is there anything you can do to help me?" And we're helping them along 122 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 different lines administratively. We'll work with L&I. If it's a problem bar in that location, we work with L&I and the LCB and the state police, and we work as a team.

Okay. LT. HEALY: The same concept would apply here without a doubt.

Okay. There are some who would use the word "accountability," the accountability is tighter and stronger, so it forces folk to think and act differently. LT. HEALY: Absolutely. Well, the captains are individually held to a very high standard. They're grilled basically.

Okay. LT. HEALY: And they're grilled on everything that's going on in their geographical area. That's why I'm saying the captain will know where his problems are. If he knows he's having problems 123 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 with juveniles, he's trying to find some way to get the juveniles out of that location.

Okay. LT. HEALY: It's best for him.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think one of the other rewards of the curfew system and the curfew centers, actually, is the young people that are there are offered services right there, which is really good. And when Dr. Evans was here with his testimony, he talked about how many were actually referred, and I think that's good. You have 'em there, you understand they're out, something's happening at home when they should be at home. LT. HEALY: Right, exactly.

And the 124 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 city services are right there to step in and lend a hand, which I think is a good part of the whole curfew center structure. LT. HEALY: Right. With one caveat. Right now, it's the discretion of the police officer to tell the child to go home. Especially with and 10 under children, they're down at the 11 corner where they shouldn't be with a 12 bunch of kids. The police officer pulls 13 up. They know them. I mean, I knew the kids in my sectors. Go home. And if I see you out here again -- I really wouldn't want to have had to drag them in the car, because the minute they pull away or they push the police officer, it escalates things that don't necessarily need to be escalated.

Mm-hmm. LT. HEALY: It's really not criminal activity at that point.

Right. 125 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 LT. HEALY: It's just being a kid.

Right. LT. HEALY: And the officer is there to do the job, but that's a piece of discretion that really shouldn't be removed.

Right, 'cause they do know the children. LT. HEALY: Right.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. LT. HEALY: Thank you.

We will now James Jones. (Witnesses come forward.)

And Nancy Womack, after them, you're next, okay? After these gentlemen, this woman. Hi, good afternoon.

Good afternoon. My name is James Jones and I'm (indiscernible) with (indiscernible) 126 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 Consulting, and I certainly want to thank Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds for inviting me here this afternoon to give my testimony. And I certainly want to thank everybody here for the good efforts that's been put into looking at how our communities can be improved with some of the social strategies that's being undergone. ), who's my Vice President of Security Operations. He's retired from the Philadelphia Police Department. And to my left is Joe (indiscernible), who's the president of (indiscernible), which is our camera surveillance technology piece. If I may approach the Council I certainly would like to get some information to you. Thank you very much. What I'm passing out to you is just some handout information that 127 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 certainly gives you a bit more detailed information about what my brief testimony will be about. About 98 percent of what I will share with you this afternoon is about solutions in the brief moments that I will talk, and the other 2 percent will be simply about administrative-type functions. You know, the Councilwoman, asked me to talk specifically about some of the technologies that are available in this particular area if we're going at some of the curfew centers. And I realize that curfew is one of the anti-crime programs that the City of Philadelphia is trying to do. I certainly would like to just simply address how the technology has improved very the years. Smart cards are one part of technology that's been around about ten years or so, and the other part is the biometrics and facial recognition, which is what you have in 128 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 your handout. Biometrics and facial recognition is state-of-the-art technology, and it's the best thing that has happened because it helps to eliminate any kind of fraud or misuse. What biometric technology is about is facial recognition. For biometrics, you've got fingerprint, which have been around for quite some time. You've had signatures, which people have been signing documents for quite a few years. Facial recognition, which is relatively new. And then you have iris and signatories that certainly help to capture image. And those images can be carried over for a number of years; they're carried in a database that allows you to see what is going on, what has happened in a facility. And let me make it real simple. Biometric is simply a camera system that's in a position that allows you to 129 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 identify people coming in and out. For example, if you're in an airport, you see people coming down the escalators, you want to know if there's a person of interest. Biometrics will identify that person, send out a message, send out a signal, an alert, and it will say to you there's a person of interest. Under the circumstances, you're going to have one curfew center now, and you're going to have 11 more to come. How effective this would be in that enrollment for a kiosk for a biometrics camera can take anywhere between 60 to 90 seconds. In other words, in less than a minute and a half, you can have a person enrolled at a biometric center. If under 18, you're not required to have any form of identification other than, you know, whatever might be required in the school system. And with this system, it allows you to track people coming and going in 130 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 and out of your curfew centers. That will allow you to get them registered and allow you to track them. And if there is an incident that takes place either inside or outside the curfew center, it certainly allows you to be able to have current, realtime events that are taking place, and that information can be tracked and monitored at any time. Again, you have eye scans where you look at the retinas, iris. Those are positive identification methods.

Voiceprints, those are positive identification methods. Hand geometries, palm (indiscernible), fingerprints, facial recognition, those are all pieces that, you know, are only assigned to one person. Whereas if you look at a card, a smart card, a smart card is small, just like a credit card, and I could take your credit card or your smart card, and you could take mine, and we 131 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 could interchange them around and actually create some abuse if necessary. But the only way to have sophisticated and accurate reflection of who is who and how you can be able to track people and to be able to know exactly -- you know, they don't have to have an active participation or an active cooperation. You can take a person's picture as soon as they enter inside a room with this biometrics system it. Tracks moving human traffic, and it certainly can track multiple subjects at the same time. And it's exciting technology, because years ago, when Dick Tracy would speak into his wristwatch, we would think that was so unique to read that in the comic strips. And then we saw James Bond doing so many other wonderful things. But now that technology is right here and it's available. And it 132 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 certainly can help with a number of different challenges in crime-fighting and to help with some of the curfew centers that you are proposing to put out around the community.

(Inaudible.) (Laughter.)

It did work. This biometric system also helps with the time and attendance in tracking for not only staff but also getting, as I mentioned earlier, student interactions and identification systems that are not mandated by federal laws or by state laws. Again, curfews and truancy might, in my opinion, they kind of go hand in hand, because if you have someone who's having some nocturnal activities, they're probably going to be skipping school or getting in some kind of trouble anyways. But now you're able to track them, especially if they're truant. And 133 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 if they're around some the curfew centers, you can certainly track them with positive identification on the individuals that are being tracked. In other words, they can't say, "Well,I need to go home to get my identification card" or "I lost my I.D. card on the basketball court." When that person walks inside the center and the database that's being currently used, you can be able to identify within less than four seconds of that individual or any individual that will walk inside of a curfew center. Now, the most critical thing to remember about this is, it's very accurate. A lot of people may not like this kind of technology because it's going to hold them accountable for their actions -- not only staff and employees, but the individuals that are being tracked. Again, my name is James Jones, 134 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 and I appreciate your allowing me the opportunity to speak before you at this hearing, and I will certainly take any of your questions at this time. Or if you have any questions for Joe for some of the camera surveillance or even John Hargraves.

Thank you very much. Any questions?

Thank you again very, very much for your testimony. As I indicated, the issue of identification of the age of a young person was a question raised when we first introduced this bill. And given the testimony of the Police Department, we're at a better place in knowing that they have their own in-house methods, if you will, of how they will get to the base of the answer. So thanks again for your very important testimony, gentlemen. 135 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441

Certainly, certainly. Again, Councilwoman, just to reiterate, with this system, you certainly don't have to have any identification cards at all. When a person walks inside, you get their face -- their picture taken, they become trackable within that database right there on the spot. And you could also look at different centers. If a person goes from one center to the next, they can pull them up from all of those different centers to be able to access it and say, "Is this person who they really say that they are?" And you can be able to use all -- it will give you at least a 75 percent of accuracy with less than 4-second pictures that will pop up. And it will tell you exactly whether it's this person, this person, or that person. It's like a lineup so to speak, 136 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 and you know exactly who that person is, and they're not even required to have the identification.

Okay.

But thank you for allowing me to give my testimony.

Oh, absolutely. Thank you.

Thank you very much. I believe you have Nancy Womack next? (Witness comes forward.)

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Council Chairwoman Miller, Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds-Brown, and all of the other members of City Council. My name is Nancy Womack, I'm employed with the School District of Philadelphia, and I'm a contributing writer to our community newspaper, The 137 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 Southwest (indiscernible), and I'm a block captain of my street. I also teach proper mannerisms and etiquette to children. I support Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds-Brown's legislation to institute a curfew for children and 9 under. I feel that children this age 10 should be in their homes at this hour. 11 Their parents should no where they are 12 what they're doing. At this hour, 13 children should be in their homes studying, doing homework assignments, preparing for the next day of school, doing household chores, and hopefully some good quality family time. This curfew will help to deter crimes that our children might become involved in and lessen crime and violence that may be committed against them. This legislation will also help to improve children's grades in school and school attendance. 138 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 It will afford them to be in bed at a decent hour well rested for school. The more interest that our children develop towards their education, the less truant they will become. There are many reasons for truancy and school boredom. We have to delve into these reasons and find out why. Programs should be developed for students that would keep them interested, inspired, and motivating them to focus seriously on their education. There is a need to improve the climate of some schools. Students should have a conducive learning environment, more parental involvement is needed in our children's lives, and we also need more parental involvement in the schools. We need more varied types of after-school programs and schools that offer some type of Saturday programs. 139 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 I say all of this but I can't stress enough that parents should get more involved with their children and their schools. With this curfew, when amended, we will need the support and the help of parents, police officers, and the community. Everyone will have to get involved. I feel that this curfew legislation is a good thing for our children because it will save their lives in many, many ways -- literally. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Miss Womack. thank you, and we really appreciate you coming to testify.

Thank you.

I just wanted to echo the Chairlady's comments. As a block captain, we appreciate you just paying attention and then taking the time to come in and 140 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 060441 register your voice on this matter.

Thank you.

Are there any questions from committee members of this witness. (No questions.)

Are there any other witnesses who wish to testify on any of these bills today? (No response.)

Seeing none, this concludes the public hearing on the Committee of Public Safety. * * * 141 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY PUBLIC MEETING

We will now go into our public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke for an amendment.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I have actually an amendment -- it's actually two separate amendments to Bill No. 060804. I believe those amendments have been circulated to the committee. Essentially, the amendments call for the language on , Section 15 D, it deletes "by allowing," and then the new language will be "if an adult intentionally, knowingly, recklessly or with criminal negligence allows a child to obtain," and then it goes on from there and that's in D. And also, on the same page, we're adding the language "handling" of that particular statute, 'cause we believe by inserting the language "handling," it will allow the City of 142 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY PUBLIC MEETING Philadelphia to impose both criminal and civil penalty without State authorization. There is some additional language in H. Under the current provision, the way the bill is written, the penalization applied to the child would be as an adult. We changed the language and are incorporating "Violation of this section by a child shall constitute a delinquent act as defined by the Juvenile Act Pennsylvania CS6802, and shall be punishable according to the provision of that subchapter." So essentially, that young person would be subject to the laws associated with juveniles and not the laws associated with an adult. So I would ask that a member of the committee officially offer those amendments to Bill No. 060804.

Okay. Councilman Greenlee. 143 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY PUBLIC MEETING

Madam Chair, I move the two amendments that Councilman Clarke has presented to Bill 5 No. 060804. (Motion seconded.)

Okay. All in favor? Opposed? Okay, the amendment passes. Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure we had a quorum with Councilman Rizzo over there. Okay. Councilman Greenlee, I'm calling on you again to move the bill as amended.

Madam Chair, I move that Bill No. 060084, as amended, be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and that the rules be suspended to allow for first reading at the next Council session. (Motion seconded.)

All in 144 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY PUBLIC MEETING favor? Those opposed? Okay. The bill is approved, as amended. Councilwoman Krajewski, can we get a motion on Bill No. 060441?

Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I move that Bill No. 060441 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at the next session of Council. (Motion seconded.)

All in favor? Opposed? The bill is approved. Thank you. Councilwoman Krajewski.

Madam Chairwoman, I move that Bill No. 060700 be reported out of this committee with a 145 12/5/06 PUBLIC SAFETY PUBLIC MEETING favorable recommendation and that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at the next session of Council. (Motion seconded.)

All in favor? All opposed? Okay, Bill No. 060700 has been reported out of this committee favorably. Just for the record, 060856 was asked to be held by its sponsor. Okay. I want to thank all of the committee members for their attendance, and this concludes the hearing on this. 146 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings of the City of Philadelphia Council Committee on Public Safety are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me on Tuesday, December 5, 2006, and that this is a true and correct statement of same. __________________________________ JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)