COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 401, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Thursday, December 7, 2000 11:35 p.m. - - - BILL NOS. 000705, 000706, 000721, 000722, 000723, 000724, 000725, 000726, 000728, 000729, 000730, 000731, 000732, 000733 - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK J. DI CICCO COUNCILMAN WILSON W. GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN W. THACHER LONGSTRETH COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 (215) 561-2220 I N D E X WITNESS KENNETH TRUJILLO, City Solicitor ........... WILLIAM HANKOWSKY, PIDC .................... GEORGE BURRELL, Administration ............. 52 CHARLES J. HARDY ........................... 68 3
Good evening, everyone. I really want to thank all of my colleagues for their patience night. I know it's been a long day. Hopefully, we'll get this all squared away. This is the continued public hearing regarding Bill Nos. 000705, 000706, 000726, 000727, 000728, 000721, 000722, 000723, 000724, 000725, 000729, 000730, 000731, 000732, 000733. The record will note that when we had the public hearing previously, 000727 was withdrawn. I have a City Solicitor here who has indicated that we can go beyond 12 o'clock and we would then have to come in on the 16th, Saturday the 16th to vote on the bills. Do you want to make that known for the record?
Ken Trujillo, I'm the City Solicitor. Madam President asked me about the issue of advertising for the hearing and if the hearing goes into tomorrow. This is actually relatively unchartered territory. The position that the continuation of Thursday hearing and advertisement will not necessarily be required and 4 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS so the hearing could be run next Friday. However, there's also a stronger argument that would be made if we go into Friday, which is tomorrow, full five days that would be next Monday through Friday which include the 15th so the public hearing would be advertised five days that would be for next Saturday the 16th.
Excuse me. I had thought there were many times that we literally stopped the clock, you remember that, Councilman Cohen, and I inquired that issue with the City Solicitor because I wasn't absolutely certain and he has just testified as to what we can do. I believe Mr. Hankowsky is here. Mr. Hankowsky, are you prepared to testify?
Madam President, Members of Council. I join the Council President in thanking you in your patience and endurance. What 5 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS is being distributed to you is a packet of amendments to the bills that were read, the subject of this Committee of the Whole. I would like to ask that they be put in the record. What I would like to do is walk the Committee of the Whole and Council through them. These amendments are consistent with the proposed amendments we made yesterday. What I'd like to do is summarize what is different from yesterday to today. We have amendments dealing with a series of the bills. Let me note for the record that the committee meeting that dealt with the zoning bills we withdrew two bills and amended 000728 so you also have amendments in hand to Bill 16 No. 000728. If I could walk through them.
Can we all pay attention, please. The acoustics in here are terrible.
The first is proposed amendments to Bill 000721, and what this amendment 6 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS does, first, it clarifies the issue in section 8A that the final team leases must be consistent with and conform with the term sheets that was presented to you previously and must become part -- must not be inconsistent with those term sheets. It establishes a process by which the final team leases would come to City Council for approval by resolution after a 10-day calendar period. And should Council not approve them, they would be deemed approved. Section D deals with the fact that until Council has acted on the team leases by the resolution mechanism, the City and PAID can spend no 15 greater than $16 million of the approved funding. And that that only be spent for land relocation demolition or site prep. A, which will allow and then for the process by which the before City Council. We then have another amendment to 000721 which is the next page which deals with the mechanical issue which clarifies the fact that at the point teams enter into the new stadiums complete and all games or football games that the Veteran's Stadium lease terminates so that one ends and one 7 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS begins. In no way are we modifying the terms or conditions of the Vet Stadium lease. The next page which is the proposed amendments to 000722 do exactly the same thing that we did to 000721 except in this instance instead of in relationship to the Eagles lease, it's in relationship to the Phillies lease. Again, requiring that the final team leases be in substantial conformance with all material respects requiring a 10-day period and again constraining us that we can spend no greater than a hundred million prior to City Council resolution with the team leases. The next page which is proposed amendment to Bill 000722 --
(Off the microphone.) Do you want to go through this first?
I think we ought to have Mr. Hankowsky go through all of the amendments and then we could ask whatever questions we have. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam 8 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS President. So the proposed amendment to Bill 000722 to Section 1723 is, again, a paralegal provision dealing with the fact that the Phillies lease, Veterans Stadium would be terminated at the point in which they take occupancy of the new stadium but in no other way amends the current lease at Veterans Stadium. The next amendment to bill 000723 lowers the amount that we are amending Capital Budget from 304 million to 100 million. This reflects the fact that the only thing we're putting in the Capital Budget are the funds the City needs to acquire the five properties for the transaction. And of course, this is not being done with General Fund or regular Capital Budget. These would be proceeds from the paid bond issue which will be provided to the City and then put into the Capital Budget. The proposed amendment to Bill 000724 likewise amends the Capital Budget necessary area to lower from 304 million to 100 million. The amendment to Bill 000725 fundamentally makes only one change which you can see on , which is to change the fact that we would have the right to apply 170 million not to 9 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS exceed 170 million to now read not less than 170 million. Next are the Eagles lease terms, the term sheets. And these have been amended in a variety of ways which we discussed in some parts yesterday. We have also amended the MBE WBE plans which are an attachment thereto. Those plans were amended slightly at the request of the City and the Minority Business Enterprise Council. We will also be having an attachment to this term sheet which is known as the stadium use and scheduling attachment which was just the subject of -- what's been the subject of multiple day negotiations with the affected communities, the subject of all day negotiations with those communities today and is literally being copied right now since we just completed that and it incorporates the scheduling, the penalty.
That's exhibit D Councilman, yes. Could I just -- one second please. It is now being distributed, just been copied. Let me spend a minute on this, if I could. This amendment really incorporates a 10 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS whole series of issues, concerns, I call them protections that had been requested by the four community groups that surround the Sport Stadium District. It establishes a special service district. It enumerates how it is funded. It enumerates how the board will be established for that special service district. It lays out scheduling rules, some with respect to how the Phillies and Eagles may use their buildings in conjunction with other, other rules with regard to how those buildings interact with the two existing arenas. It establishes for the first time a penalty should those rules be broken, financial penalty that must be paid by the teams, a $50,000 in the first violation, $100,000 in the second violation within a calendar year. Those penalties are escalated by the Consumer Price Index. It establishes a stadium schedule coordinating committee to specifically monitor the scheduling, provide attendance data to the community and to the Special Service District. It then enumerates under what are stadium plaza activities very specific protocols with regard to outside the building. Plaza areas would be sort of where sidewalks are where you'd be entering the 11 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS building, what can happen in those areas, where they can be, where they cannot be, what activities can occur on them. If the teams wish to have what are called hospitality tents, you see those sometimes before an event, how many and how many square feet they can be. It says where and where not alcohol may be served. It also deals where concessions may or may not happen and for how many hours before events and after events. It regulates what may happen in the parking lot areas. Establishes various zones making clear that there aren't concerts in various zones, that there's not alcohol in the parking areas, making clear where tailgating can and cannot be. It also establishes limits for the number of concerts that may be in each building annually. It also establishes where employees would park. And it reaffirms what we've already talked about earlier during these hearings that there will be no development north of Pattison Avenue without coming back to City Council. This Exhibit D, the MBE plan and the term sheets now form the basis by which team leases will be finalized. We do the same for the Phillies lease so 12 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS there is attached to their lease term sheet their minority and women enterprise plan and then same scheduling and event protocols are attached to theirs so that they are bound in the same way that the Eagles are bound. We also have black line versions of the lease-back which I think simply pick up the fact that we're bringing the leases to you by resolution.
I am in this document, Councilwoman, lease-back lease agreement by and between the City and the Philadelphia Authority for Industrial Development. What it basically does is incorporates the provision that after Council has reviewed and presumed and if you approve by resolution the team leases, any subsequent changes come back to this legislative body. That's what we had to do in this document, pick up that commitment. We do the same thing in the Phillies leases and lease-back and the Eagles leases and lease-backs. We also -- have we distributed 000706? Please do that right now. 13 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS There's also an amendment to Bill 3 000706. This is the bill, as you recall we had a separate hearing on this, which dealt with Vet Stadium repairs. This amendment would lower the amount that the City would -- that you would be authorized, let me rephrase that, you City Council would be authorizing in terms of repairs to the Vet from the $80 million list to the $19.7 million list. So consistent with the concept that if we are proceeding, if you so favorably are inclined with new stadiums, that we would spend 19.7 million over the next three years in repairs to Veterans Stadium. That is basically the package of amendments that you have before you. Of course, we would request your favorable consideration that they amend the appropriate ordinances that were introduced. And of course, we request your favorable consideration.
Mr. Hankowsky, in any of the lease terms that are marked with black line, you gave us two copies, one the original and one the black line copy.
The black line is reflective of the term sheets we gave you when we 14 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS introduced so that you could see anything that has happened.
Are any of the items discussed in last night's meeting with you that you were taking copious notes about reflected any changes in that black line lease term? Is there anything we need to look at that we didn't see last night?
So those notes you were taking about our concerns about the black line lease terms, nothing was changed, added, or deleted?
I don't think in the term sheets. We did have a whole dialog, as you recall.
Mr. Martin went through the term sheet last night, we were making comments and you were taking notes. Any of those notes result in changes in the black line lease terms?
I don't think that they cover any issues in the term sheet. I do think, Councilman, as you recall, there was some period of 15 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS discussion about community concerns, alcohol and certain things.
Well, as I said, with the community we've incorporated some number of controls and constraints regarding activity down there, concerts and things like that and gotten the limits way down.
As it relates to Exhibit D, , Section B, the indication that there's a 84,000 person limit on multiple events. Is there a mechanism to determine the violation? Who counts the 84,000 people? What is the complaint mechanism if a special service district or an individual resident would like to claim there were 85,000 people, how does that happen?
There's an obligation in Section 3 of what's called the Stadium Schedule Coordinating Committee which is composed of the 16 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS teams, Comcast, the City, and a representative of the Special Service District, which committee shall meet monthly and provide actual attendance data from the venues as well as the number of employees, so actually who was in the building, attendees and workers for events and that that be provided monthly to the Special Service District to determine in fact if there has been a violation and to the public on request. So if you're just a citizen in South Philadelphia and you say "I think something happened the other night. What happened there?" You may not get it the next day but at the next monthly report you can say, "I want to see that monthly report."
So the people who provide the attendance figures are actually the teams and building operators ?
That's correct. I think as you are also aware, Councilman, we do have through a second channel, I'll use that terminology, a capacity to monitor this since we're the collector of the amusement tax, we have a capacity to actually go in there and audit tickets.
Just one other question, on , Section 5, roman numeral 5, 17 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS letter C, no concerts shall be held or amplified music of any kind permitted in any of the parking areas. Does that include any of the parking areas of the existing First Union Centers.
It does not. Because, obviously, these documents bind the Phillies and the Eagles.
Are the operators of the First Union Spectrum and First Union Center, are they bound by virtue of their existence in the Supports District since they're including in the multiple event categories but they're not including in the outdoor concert on the parking lot category?
That's right. We have had discussions with Comcast SpectriCorp about participating in the scheduling, the Special Service District, the scheduling committee, et cetera. I wish I could tell you tonight I actually have a legal document that puts that all in place. I don't. But we -- I think we have 30 days is the requirement in this schedule, Councilman, that we work with the community to get this document which really is, you know, a schedule into some kind of legal document within 30 days because some of this 18 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS actually, for example, the Special Service District is actually to begin operation in 2001. So the idea is that this would help not only once these buildings are built and open, but actually during the construction period.
There was an awful lot of discussion yesterday about including a inflationary aspect of the terms of the cultural fund. That's including in the papers? The children's fund.
That's right, Councilman. We were not able to obtain that. Let me just put it that simply.
Yes, I think fundamentally is a business matter. I think we have been -- you know, obviously, people can have various views on this, but we have been heavily focussed on a variety of concessions that we felt the teams needed to make to the community and I think there's just a practical limit as to how many things they're 19 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS prepared to do. I think that's the simplest way I can put it.
The Children's Fund is one of the more important aspects, at least from my perspective.
And I know a lot of our other colleagues here because $1 million now does not mean a million dollars in 30 years, 40 years from now. And what we're trying to do is maximize the amount of money that goes into that fund.
Clearly, we share that sentiment. That's why the Administration negotiated to get the teams to contribute to the fund, to establish the fund. But we've also asked them to do many other things, many things. And I think their position is what they're committed to is what they're prepared to do.
Number under concessions contracts indicates there's been --
I'm sorry, Councilman, could you just tell me which plan you're in?
Excuse me, Councilman. I think we deserve a little more respect than that. People having conversations, do so in the corridor. The acoustics in here are absolutely horrible and we want to hear what's being said. Thank you. Councilman proceed.
Councilman, now that I have it, could you please give me the reference?
Based on the selection of the mass to concession era, how does the team intend on being consistent with the goals 21 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS associated with the contracts as indicated in the earlier language? Is there going to be subcontracts associated with the concession?
I think -- I hate to be this way, but this is one of the elements I didn't directly negotiate. I'm just looking for the person that I think might have that very specific answer. I believe that what this provision deals with is the fact they have a contract in place. They're going to be talking to have concession here, but I don't believe -- if I'm right, Councilman. I want to confirm this. I don't believe, as you mentioned, the earlier percentages are necessarily applicable here.
Yes, let me confirm that, but I believe that is the case. I will confirm that.
While we're waiting, Mr. Hankowsky, we had said on the Children's Fund under C we thought the verbiage could be more clarified. I notice you didn't change 22 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS that.
Are you talking about Page 2C of the Children's Fund? I just don't know what the nature of the -- Why don't I clarify it for the record. I think what it means -- and this deals, Council President, with what I think we've all come to know as the private payment problem which is to say that we can't take these dollars -- and let's just say that the Philadelphia School District runs today a child care program at a school. We can't take these funds and replace those funds. However, if there is another school where there is no child care program, we could take these funds and create one. And then the mandated by government simply means if -- I'm not an expert on school programs, but if the Federal Government says you must have school lunch programs and we fund them, then we can't use this to fund them. However, for example, there's no art program after school, we can fund that. So it's to make a distinction between either it's currently there or some governmental agency says you should have it. Those are exclusions. But anything either additive to those or different are fine. 23 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
In your discussion at some point you stated that the old lease for Vet Stadium was going to be terminated and replaced by a new lease but that the terms would remain the same? Did I understand that correctly?
If I said it that way, Councilman, I said it incorrectly. That's not what I mean. Let me be clear. The current lease at Vet Stadium, as we all know it, remains in full force and effect. You're not touching it at all right here. It remains full force and effect from now until, let's just say the Eagles football stadium is done. It's done, they can move into it and play a game. At that point then this new lease goes into effect and the Vet lease ends.
Does that mean that the income from the super boxes that's due to begin to come to the City's --
The City coffers beginning in February of next year, those payments 24 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS will still be due to the City?
In terms of this legislation, they absolutely do, Councilman, unless this body has brought some different piece of paper at some other point in time and decided to do something about it. They're due.
There's nothing in these provisions, the basic provisions or the amendments that excuses the teams from those payments; is that correct?
This legislation doesn't affect those payments, Councilman.
Excuse me. While we're on that, do you mind I interrupt you for a moment?
Mr. Hankowsky, is this amendment consistent with the title of the bill?
Council President, can I defer to an attorney? 25 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS
Madam President, this is Ken Trujillo, City Solicitor. Yes, it is consistent with the title of the bill.
I gathered as you went through you stated that when the matter comes before City Council with the 10-day notice for the City Council to act that there would be a vote up or down on the resolution. Did I get that accurately? Meaning that there could be no amendments that Council's option would be solely to vote approval or vote disapproval or express approval by not voting at all?
I think that is accurate, Councilman. I do want to make one other -- that's accurate, but as I pointed out, there is an amendment that after you've done that and that's an up or down, if after that we change these leases, they come back here by the regular 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS Council ordinance process. So any subsequent changes would --
Does that mean that during the 30 years the duration of the lease that amendments to the leases can only be done through Council ordinance?
Somewhere in your statement you indicated a change, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you said that now the language would be at least $170 million replacing language of up to $170 million?
I think it's fairly simple, Councilman. We felt that the original language actually limited us. That if there was any opportunity at any point down the road to obtain additional State funding for the project, we'd have 27 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS a capacity to do that. It gives us an opportunity. We know at this point the State is only committed 170 million, so we know we have to at least get that money, but if there was an opportunity to get more, we'd have an capacity to do that.
Is there some claim or indication that there is going to be an effort to get more?
From the State. I know there may be other areas, other entities, governmental entities and private entities you're looking for money, but are there any specific effort that's going to be made to go to the State for additional dollars?
I know this is not the total response you'd like, we were talking.
I understand your 28 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS restrictions.
We were talking to a variety of sources. This would enable the state to be a potential source.
Can you confirm or deny, Mr. Hankowsky, whether or not there's going to be an application of any kind to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania for additional funds over the $170 million.
Yes. There are two legal questions that I would like to follow-up with. One, considering the decision in the famous Weiner case which invalidated a City ordinance which should not contain the precise amount of a change in the tax structure, what is the legal opinion with respect to the validity of this ordinance since there has -- with respect to the question of notice to the public and an opportunity to be heard on the issue, because I believe they were the substance of the Weiner decision, what is the opinion of legal counsel with respect to whether or not the absence 29 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS of a completed lease, how that relates to the question of adequate notice under the law? May I have an opinion from --
The City Solicitor is here. I'm sure he'd be happy to answer.
Councilman, I'd be happy to answer the question. I'm not prepared to offer an opinion at this time. I am happy to get back to you on that issue.
Let me ask you with respect to the second question which I've raised at various times. To the extent that your action contemplated by the original bills plus the amendments permits changes to be made at the discretion of the City Solicitor and the Finance Director in any of these provisions, does that constitute an unlawful delegation of power by the legislature to the executive body.
I do not believe that the language as constituted in the delegation to the Finance Director and City Solicitor constitute an unlawful delegation of powers to either of those two. 30 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS
Are there any other questions from members of the committee? The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
I was waiting for the person who was going to give a response on the earlier question about the concession contract on the Eagles facility.
Councilman, is this on the concession, the one you asked me about?
I'm sorry. Thank you. I checked, and I just want to make -- the Mayor asked me to make this pretty clear. We need to tweak this a little bit, but he's very confident that we'll have a successful program in the concession area. We just need a little more time.
How long will you have to tweak it or how much? Big tweak, little 31 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS tweak?
Moderate tweak probably. I don't know. I don't know, Councilman. It's just something that we need a couple of days to figure out.
If you need some assistance in tweaking, could you let me know sooner than later?
Are there any other questions from members of the committee? The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Madam Chair, could you let us know a time when other amendments not coming from the Administration will be entertained in the course of this hearing?
Are there any other amendments that are being proposed?
I believe there are 32 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS two amendments being circulated.
I had to step out of the room. Whose amendments are they?
One is mine and there's one, I think, from Councilman DiCicco, one from myself and one from, I think, Councilman Ortiz. They're actually two amendments each but they affect both 000721 and 000722.
I haven't offered it formally yet, but it's been circulated along with a memo to the members of Council. This amendment 000721 and 000722 would read as follows: "Section 11, notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this ordinance, no 18 obligation set forth in the Eagles lease and development agreement shall be binding against the City unless such lease and development agreement contains a binding covenant approved by City Council providing, A, that the City shall be entitled to one suite which shall be licensed to a vendor who shall provide for the use and operation of the suite and that the vendor's net proceeds shall be divided 33 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS proportionately for the use of the Philadelphia Cultural Fund and the Sunny Hill Basketball League, Incorporated, and/or such other not-for-profit organizations which shall be designated by ordinance 6 of City Council." That amendment is both applying to Bill 8 No. 000721 and Bill No. 000722 and it's the same Section 11 in Bill 000722 that those amendments along with a memo explaining the reasoning for those amendments have been circulated to members of Council. Thank you.
Thank you. Councilman Ortiz, you have a couple amendments?
The amendment is for Bill 000722 and 000721. They're both the same. It's in essence to create a new Section 11 on 6, at the bottom of . And the Section 11 on will now become Section 12 and then Section 21 13 will become Section 14. The amendment has been distributed and it reads the following -- it's in essence by way of explanation is to create a living wage within the restaurant workers that are going to be supplying the services in the two stadiums to be 34 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS able to create a wage benefit that is more or less a living wage. Currently, for example, the janitorial staff at Vet Stadium earn $5.50 an hour. This bill 6 will in essence create a wage that will be comparable to those wages that are paid now in the industry across the City. It reads in the following manner: "Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this ordinance, any of the exhibits, the Phillies leases or the development agreement, no obligation set forth in the Philly leases or the development agreement shall be binding against the City unless each of said leases in the development agreement contain binding components approved by ordinance. A, providing that the Phillies will contracturally and voluntarily agree with the City to comply with to comply with and be and held to the provisions of Section 17-107 of the Philadelphia Code with respect to wages and working conditions, that it will provide both direct and contract employees in all service job classifications, including but not limited to janitorial, ticket sellers, ushers guards, and concessions employees, employees in the 35 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS operation of the new stadium and with respect to all implementation enforce provisions of said section of the Philadelphia Code relating to wages and working condition. Providing that the Phillies will not engage during the lifetime of the Phillies lease, either directly or through independent contractors, consultants or attorneys in any activity directly related to influencing employees respecting unionization." The amendments read the same for Bill 12 000721 as it does.
Are the employees that you're referring to part-time employees?
These are the employees that will be working during the seasons of both the Eagles and the Phillies.
They will probably be considered, yes, but the janitorial staff will have to be there maintaining it and so on. Some of them will be seasonal and some of them will not.
And how much 36 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS did you say they're getting?
Well, right now the janitorial staff, for example, at the Vet Stadium, they have two contractors. One is Team Clean and they pay $5.50. And the other one is Central Property, and they $5.50. That is not a living wage. The general janitorial salary across the City right now is $12.41 an hour. That is the amendment, Madam Chair, for both 000721 and 00022.
Councilman Ortiz, I'm just trying to get some clarity. Is the requirement on the private entity that has the contractural relationship with its employees or is it with the teams?
It's with the teams. The teams will not contract with anyone that does not pay a living wage. The teams will not give a contract to somebody that pays $5.50 an hour.
Unless they $12 an hour, the teams will not contract --
Well, it's a prevailing wage type of situation for janitorial 37 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS workers and ticket sellers and ushers that the prevailing wage that is paid for that type of endeavor across the City is the type of wage that the City will contracting -- that the Eagles and the Phillies contracting with in terms of the contract.
Comparable with the wages that are being paid across the City in those different areas.
You're talking about ticket-takers, that's why when you're saying comparable --
I don't know how much they get paid at First Union. I'm just saying that they should pay the prevailing wage. They get quite a benefit. They should pay a -- I think a prevailing wage is not too much to ask.
Thank you. Are there any other -- go ahead, Councilman. I'm sorry. I'm being distracted. 38 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS
I'm sorry, I don't mean to belabor the point. I'm just trying to get a sense when you talk about prevailing wage, it's a prevailing wage compared to what? When you're talking about a stadium --
You're talking about a job taking tickets in a stadium. You compare it with other comparable types of venues, Sports Union. I'm trying to get sense of what the salaries are.
They have the right to organize. We know the salaries if the janitorial workers, at least that.
At a stadium comparables. They get paid $5.50 an hour. Across the City they get paid $12. And I think that's the level they should be paid at. You get concession workers and restaurants and so on, they get a certain amount of wages in terms of hotels and so on. I think the hourly wage and those should be transferred per diem in terms of the teams and the 39 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS stadiums.
The amendment suggests that the same technique be applied as is applied in the Davis Bacon law generally for construction work using the same general kind of standards that would be used with respect to prevailing wage.
That's why I'm asking the question. In the construction industry, it's talking about a prevailing wage and that's based on a formula of either the state or municipality. My question is, if you're talking about ticket-takers, you would compare that to ticket-takers in other venues throughout the City or the State.
But that's not the only employees at a stadium. You have the concessions, which more or less the prevailing wages would be set up by the Restaurant Association and the restaurant unions and in terms of those individuals who do the pouring and the concessions and so on. So you got to take it for what it is. 40 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS
I ask that question, Councilman, because I agee that $5.50 is not an appropriate wage, but when we're talking about a prevailing wage, it would be helpful if I had a sense of what the prevailing wage was for the various industries, in particular in a comparable industry. I'm just not privy to that information at this point.
Well, the one example that we have. The other ones can be set by instance in terms of the Restaurant Workers Union and so on, they can begin to look at what the prevailing is concessions pourers and so on down the line.
Could that be determined at a later point? I mean, are we asking -- in the discussion you're talking about $12 an hour. I don't know if that's for the prevailing --
That's only from one of the industries. That's janitorial staff.
So what would the terms and conditions be for this particular --
When the workers sit down, when the different labor unions come into play 41 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS and they have the right to organize, they have to be able to look at what a restaurant worker, a server in restaurant gets for that type of job.
So by prohibiting the teams from contracting with a company that doesn't pay a prevailing wage, which we don't know what that prevail wage is yet.
A company that pays only the minimum wage with no benefits and so on. What we're trying to do here is to make sure that the teams are able to pay everyone that works within the stadium because they do get the benefits of the City that they living wage to everyone that they hire. And that living wage can be determined by different levels of the job categories that are there, but above $5.50.
Madam President, I offer an amendment to bill 000721. Do I need to read that into record?
Amendment one, 42 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS Exhibit C to bill 000721 is hereby amended by inserting after Section 7.1 the following new section: Section 7.2, Naming Rights. To the extent permitted by law, the City hereby covenants and agrees with the authority that the City shall not grant any naming rights or similar designations ("other than those presently existing to the sports complex which presently contains Veterans Stadium, the Spectrum and the First Union Center and will contain the new Eagles football stadium and the new Phillies ballpark such complex, including all associated parking, being here and after referred to as the sports complex,") or any portion thereof other than naming rights and similar designations for the individual arenas and stadia located in the supports complex without the written consent of the authority, which consent may be granted in the authority's sole discretion. Amendment 2, Exhibit C to Bill 000721 is hereby amended by deleting the existing Section 17.6 and inserting in lieu thereof the following: Section 7.6, no third-party rights except as provided in Section 12.2 and Section 14.7 thereof and except as may otherwise be provided in the 43 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS Eagles lease with respect to subject covered in Section .7 nothing in this lease shall be construed to constitute, create or confer rights, remedies or claims in or upon any person not a party hereto as a third-party beneficiary or otherwise, or to create obligations or responsibilities of the parties hereto such persons, or to permit any person other than the parties hereto and the respective successors and assigns to rely upon the covenants, conditions and agreements contained herein.
You're probably going to do it. I was going to ask you.
Will Mr. Hankowsky, Madam President, be commenting on the Administration's position on all three amendments?
I don't know if he's heard all three. 44 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS
Madam President, I was just going to ask for a slight indulgence because I heard them, but I'm not sure I know whose is which so...
I'll try this, if I can. I think the Administration's positions on all the amendments except the last one, which we'll address in a second, would be to request that Council not entertain those amendments. On the last amendment which --
I heard what Mr. Hankowsky had to say. I would appreciate some elaboration as to why the Administration is taking that position. I think it's something that should be for the record.
Could I have the indulgence of Council to do that in just a moment so I can make sure I'm correctly representing the Administration? One second, please. Thank you. Let me do the third one, though, if I could. I think the president asked if, one, I could explain it and also delineate the 45 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS Administration's position, so let me do the explanation first. There is an issue about whether the City might have a capacity to name something in the sports complex down the road. We have agreed, obviously, in the term sheets that each team respectively has a right to name their buildings, Eagles, Phillies. Obviously, so did Comcast SpectiCorps, hence the name First Union. An issue has risen as to whether there should be any limitations on future naming rights or whether there would be any or not be any. That issue has not been resolved. If you want to resolve it inside the team leases subsequently, the next several weeks, you would need a mechanism whereby the City could be obligated to agree and contractually agree and be obligated to some future decision. The only way to do that now is to entertain this amendment which would allow for PAID to have a right to approve, if the City would do any naming, that would allow us the capability later to include in the team lease how that paid approval right might be exercised. Doesn't mean it would be or wouldn't or that 46 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS anything would be agreed to or not. But if you don't do the amendment, it may be difficult to do it later. That's what it does. In terms of the Administration's position, obviously, we did not bring it up here and it wasn't part of the package I introduced. Our package is our package. But if Council would so elect to include it in the package, we would not oppose that.
Is there a financial cost? Are you projecting a financial cost if this is passed, to the City.
I think, Councilman, and I'm being candid from what I know at the moment. I think it's very difficulty to know that, what considerable value there is here. I think there is an opposite side to the coin, so to speak, which is a concern that the teams might have that their naming rights might get diminished, the value of them. This has become a business -- we kind of know all this stuff is named now where people do lots of -- we know now, you know, high schools or colleges are selling naming rights. People are selling all kinds of rights and where people's 47 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS economic value could be impacted. So it's an issue that has not been negotiated, has not been resolved. But should there been a perspective need to do it, this would enable it to be done.
We need to know what the projected economic impact, if any, so we can make a decision tonight. And this is what the problem is about doing --
And what is the economic impact on the Eagles if their naming rights are diminished by this?
Oh, it could be from moderate to massively significant. It could be worth millions of dollars a year.
I guess that's your pleasure. Obviously, you could, it's a public 48 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS hearing.
I just wanted to follow-up on that last statement by Councilman Ortiz. If it would have any significant effect on what the Eagles ability to borrow money to pay down the debt, that also could have an effect on the Eagles fulfillment to some of the things that we have requested in the deal, their contribute to the Children's Fund possibly. I mean, these are hypotheticals, I'm assuming. The Children's Fund, Special Services District because as their ability to pay down the debt may be diminished because they can't get as much with the naming rights if they had the full opportunity to do that, if the City were to do something separate and apart from them and assuming they would say it's the Comcast Sports Complex, meaning that when the Eagles go out to get naming rights for their facility, it would obviously, as you said, could possibly minimize their ability to get what they originally thought they thought they would get in the deal for the full naming rights and could affect everything, 49 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS basically.
At this late hour I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but I'm trying to say that everything has an effect.
I haven't been sure I'm making sense for about the last five hours but, Councilman, I just want to make clear for the record, though, that we believe that in terms of Children's Fund and Special Service District, those are obligations the deal. But I think your comment about could it have an impact. It could. We didn't introduce it. We don't have an economic evaluation of what it means one way or the other, but I acknowledge that there's clearly a possibility that something could have an impact.
Thank you. One of the issues as it relates to this amendment is that even though in the beginning when we had discussions initially about financing these facilities, many of us questioned the issue of naming rights as to the 50 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS whether or not it should go to the City or whether or not it should go to the teams. I think very early on in this process we recognized, although it took us a little while to understand the fairness of it, that the naming rights were clearly property of the teams in order to make this financing deal work. Anything that would be pen to interpretation that the complex itself could, in fact, be named I think would certainly diminish the value of the naming rights of the buildings. I think, therefore, the amendment is needed for clarification so that the complex in fact won't be named and that the value of those buildings naming rights regardless of what that value is because only the market would be able to tell us. I'm sure the teams have some estimation of what it may be, should not be affected by having this open-ended piece in the deal.
Just for clarity, Councilman, I'm not disputing what you just put on the record, but the what amendment does mechanically is it doesn't actually solve the problem; it creates the mechanism to solve the problem.
It was a leap of 51 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS faith for us to begin with to recognize that within the industry naming rights are the property of the team and we wouldn't share all of them or any of it, that in fact we should maintain the value from their perspective.
Right. Councilman, I believe, and Madam Chair, with your indulgence, I believe Councilman Kenney asked for a little bit of explanation of our opposition to the other bills, and I think I'd ask --
Just a moment, please. Are there any other questions on Councilman DiCicco's bill? I see that Mr. Banner is here. I'm sure that he wouldn't have any objection to addressing this issue. Does everybody have a copy of it? Does any anybody have any other questions? Does anyone else have any questions on this particular amendment?
Madam President, I believe they're making copies of it.
While we are waiting then, Mr. Hankowsky, if you have information 52 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS on the other two amendments, I would appreciate your addressing them now.
Madam President, for record, I'm George Burrell, Secretary of External Affairs for the Street Administration. And we have had no time to review the amendments that are proposed here.
With all due respect, George, we haven't had time to review anything.
And therefore, we would respectfully ask the Council to not look favorably upon them with respect to the box that is traditionally, I think, identified as the Mayor's Box in the stadiums. We would favor the Mayor, whoever the Mayor is, to continue to have the opportunity for that box. And with respect to the issues that relate to wages, we have spent a considerable amount of time in our MBE and WBE programs negotiating both the percentage participations on the contract side and on the employment side. We think those issues could be addressed there.
Madam President, I 53 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS have a few questions.
While I recognize the exact nature of Mr. Burrell's comments about not being able to review, I guess all of us would somewhat be concerned about our own ability to review a stack of documents that is inches thick and be asked, as we will tonight, to vote on this and approve it. I find Mr. Burrell's explanation as to his opposition to my particular amendment a little weak and I would like to maybe flesh it out a little bit as why what is identified in the Eagles lease and Phillie's lease term is a City suite for City use should be used in the manner it's been used. I think part of the tradition 30 years ago was the City in fact owned the stadium. And I don't know the legislative history of how that was established, but would you not agree or would the Administration disagree that the use of this box in a market rate way to raise money for various charities that Council may designate would be an inappropriate use of a City-owned facility?
I would not believe that 54 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS that is an inappropriate use. I simply believe that just as there is a suite available to whomever, this is not an argument that applies only to Mayor Street but or whoever the Mayor of this City is, I think those suites have traditionally been used to both entertain people who are voters and residents of the City of Philadelphia. They've been used very often, they've been used in this administration and all the way back to the Bill Green administration of which I was a part making the tickets available to charities to auction off and to participate in. And I think that those boxes have been used in a very significant way to benefit the citizens and the people of the City of Philadelphia. Are there other ways that can be achieved? Certainly, it could. I believe and the Administration believes that making that box available to the Mayor of the City of Philadelphia is an appropriate use.
Well, Madam President, I would argue in that regard that I believe that there are instances wherein that City-owned facility, that luxury suite could be used to entertain executives and foreign dignitaries and other types of people that the City or the Mayor at 55 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS the time whoever he or she is would like to entertain. I think that could be accomplished within the confines of this amendment by simply having the Commerce Department or the Mayor's Office set aside a certain percentage of money in their budget to rent the box as any other corporation would rent the box to do that kind of entertaining for the public. I do believe that this is an opportunity we're going to waste in order to raise perhaps 150 to 200 or maybe more thousand dollars a year to help what we would all agree are worthwhile institutions that are being recommended in this particular amendment, and as the time goes on over the next 30 years, to give Council the opportunity to designate other worthy charities that could also take advantage of this money. I do not believe that this -- as a matter fact, what gave me the idea the Eagles lease terms and Phillies lease terms specifically refer to this as the City Suite, not the Mayor's Box. And I think that what gave me the idea to do it in the first place, and if the Administration wants to oppose it, I certainly understand the opposition, I don't happen to agree with it. 56 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS
And I appreciate that, Councilman. And as I said, believe that there are a number of opportunities through the Cultural Fund, through the Philadelphia Activities Fund and through others to ho help in other ways in this government to help charitable activities. Yours is an appropriate use. I simply believe it's appropriate to have the Mayor of the City of Philadelphia have the opportunity to in fact entertain the types of people that you've talked about and which are in fact entertained there.
Would the Administration agree, perhaps in a letter form in addition to whether or not this amendment rises or falls to agree that perhaps this box should not be used in any way for political fund-raising. In this Administration and the last -- not this Administration yet, but in the last administration has been significantly for a political fund-raising tool as opposed to City purposes.
Well, when this box, as any facility owned by the City is used for political purposes. The person using it for that purpose must 57 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS both pay for the box and for the tickets. So it is not within the authority of the Mayor, neither for himself or for anyone else to simply give that box over for political purposes. I have not had the opportunity to discuss your suggestion with the Mayor. I would be able happy to do so but am not able to speak for him at this moment.
Well, I do believe that if this amendment fails, it will be a lost opportunity to help two worthy charities in our City, and I would urge the members vote in favor of it. Thank you.
I do not believe that paying a living wage to workers needs a lot of study, given the current situation of these two bills that all of these bills that we have in front of us, I think the economic benefits that is going to be accruing to the teams is more than enough to be able to pass on to the workers that work in the two stadia a salary that would be both beneficial to the teams and to the workers.
And I believe, Councilman, that there is no disagreement with the sentiment of are your amendment. However, there are a variety of 58 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS differing types of job that go on in the stadium that I don't know what the host of them. What we've tried to do in response to the lobbying and the suggestion and encouragement of a number of Councilmembers is to respond in this legislation to the WBE to the MBE requirements both on the side of contracting and on the side of employment and we would expect to be able to respond to that initiative there.
Mr. Burrell, along the lines of those questions, there was a question raised earlier about what the prevailing wage is in the State of Pennsylvania. Does anybody on your team have a sense of what that prevailing wage is? There's a question about that. There should be a requirement currently at the existing stadium facility to pay prevailing wage.
Councilman, I can't respond. I do not know the answer to that question.
I'm being told by someone that it is currently a requirement that paid prevailing wages for -- that was the earlier 59 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS question. Now I want to know what it is. And I'm being told that it should be a requirement to pay prevailing wage currently in the existing stadium.
Councilman, I cannot answer that question. I'll get the answer for you. My concern in responding to the amendment is there are part-time jobs, there are all kind of job opportunities in the stadium that may or may not within the confines of the labor laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania where prevailing wages would be the applicable standard.
Would there be a possibility, not to say that this particular amendment will not get supported, but would there be a possibility if somehow this amendment did not pass or either withdrawn, would there be a possibility to deal with that issue in the concession contract arrangement with the mass concession or the individual who has a contract for the janitorial services? I just don't have enough information at this time.
I'm sorry, Councilman, could I just -- Bill Hankowsky. This is the deal expert. I don't want to say something that binds 60 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS him and others. What the Councilman has asked is if this particular amendment were held for today, would there be an opportunity in subsequent discussions that it could be the question of prevailing wages be dealt with, is there an opportunity for that to be addressed?
Councilman, the distinction would be that if you do not pass this amendment, and obviously it doesn't become an obligation of the transaction, however, it's very clear in the amendments I went through we have to finalize team leases. And we can clearly have a dialog with the teams about how and in what manner you might be able to apply the living wage principal. And we won't be prohibited from doing that and it wouldn't be in conflict with the term sheet, so it's not -- you know, it wouldn't be materially inconsistent if we brought it back so we could look into it, yeah. It wouldn't stop us from trying to look into it. I can't tell you where we'd end up, but we could surely explore it.
Your voice is kind of tailing off. 61 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS
Please, the noise level is much too high. We can't hear ourselves speaking. Anybody that wants to have a private conversation, please do so in the corridor. Councilman, please proceed.
There are things associated with the aftermath of this particular action that we take tonight as it relates to the contractual relationship between the teams, the construction entities, the concessionaires, the janitorial services. And I'm assuming that that discussion has only been preliminary.
So the question is, in that discussion, is there something that can be put in the term, in the lease that would require prevailing wage? And frankly speaking, I'm just not 62 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS sure what that is and that's why I'm a little concerned about voting for an amendment not knowing exactly what that prevailing wage is.
And I'm concerned, too, Councilman. And I don't want to dismiss a concept out of hand. I also don't want to promise something that we won't get. As you know, buildings like this have numerous part-time jobs that relates to its operation. It might have ushers, there might be concession employees.
Was the prevailing wage requirement based on a 40-hour work week?
Yeah, and I just don't know and I think we got to be careful that we don't put this buildings where the economics don't work in terms of what's normal practice. On the other hand, there are paid salaried employees who manage the building and as you said maintenance. I'd like to just -- we will clearly take an opportunity to look at it.
Mr. Mariano can probably correct me on this. If a construction worker works 10 hours a week, he still gets prevailing wage; am I correct? I guess I'm trying 63 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS to get a sense if it's a part-time employee, why shouldn't that part-time employee get prevailing wage?
I don't know, Councilman. I just don't know enough about it and we would have to look into it.
I'd like to take this opportunity to do short walk through Councilman Ortiz's amendment as a discussion, not to try to jam the amendment or anything, but on the campaign trail last year, because of my background in community economic development and my purpose for coming to Council is create economic opportunity, people were surprised at why I didn't necessarily support living wage legislation in the past. It's because I thought it was an undue advantage, actually, to larger businesses, that the legislation as presented in Council previously hurts small businesses and other community-based enterprises. My concern about how this amendment comes to us at last minute is that it doesn't necessary flow with the deal. Some people may think 64 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS that the amendment process here is political and who can amend these bills who can't. But when the Administration amends bills, of course, for their better knowledge of this deal, sometimes it flows. Sometimes when Council amends bills, sometimes it flows. In this case, I'm particularly concerned about language in this amendment dealing with issues like concession employees when if one of our goals is to take the concession contracts and make sure there's participation by economically disadvantaged businesses, I mean, my question to Councilman Ortiz is does he really want to exclude an opportunity for a Latino business or an African-American or a women business by forcing that business to compete at a level it can't if it can't pay that living wage? I mean, what is going to be your priority here, to ensure concession contracts for disadvantaged businesses and find ways to help them compete in this process in the economic content of this deal or is it going to be to interject a living wage argument?
My priority is that every worker that works in the stadium should get 65 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS paid above the minimum wage and benefits. The contractors be who they are. And definitely, the minority -- but they have to pay a wage that will give the workers that is toiling for them enough to be able to may the rent, clothe their kids.
What we want to do in reality here is create real economic opportunities for real economically disadvantaged businesses. If there are real businesses ready to provide these concession services that simply cannot. I'm not saying they should not.
The workers that provide the work in those concessions merit, merit because they walk up and down those stairs under the sun, they pour the beer.
Gentleman, 66 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS please do not have conversation among yourselves.
It's not a philosophical amendment. It is an amendment that today the individuals that are lower level of the skill level get paid nothing from the janitorial staff on up. And then profits are made on their backs, and I do not believe that whether you're black, Puerto Rican, Asian or whatever that you should make an excessive profit on the back of other people.
I just wanted him to clarify his position on it. I mean, my position on it is that any business that can afford to pay a living wage in terms of it's profit margin should py living wage. I don't think we can on the front end determine that every disadvantaged business that we hope will benefit from this deal will be able to pay a living wage. He's clearly said that his priority in this is to philosophically say that all workers have to be paid a set amount regardless of how it 67 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS works economically and generally and how it works out economically for specifically disadvantaged businesses which we're trying to give opportunities here.
I believe that any business that gets a contract at any of these stadiums is going to be able to pay a wage that is --
And if they don't, they have not negotiated a contract that is good enough for them to be able to do it. If they cannot do that, then they should not be in the business.
Thank you. At 68 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS this time I would like invite Chuck Hardy to the podium. He's attorney for my constituents who live in the stadium complex. As they're walking up, they've been here since o'clock. 6 (Applause.) 7
I want to 8 thank the Mayor and the community in addressing the 9 problems that people have had to endure for almost 30 years. I also want to take the opportunity to thank the community for the countless hours that they have worked on this issue, and we're certainly very grateful to the teams for their cooperation in working out the Special Service District in a true spirit of cooperation. So with that, Mr. Hardy, I say thank you. And at this time I would like to recognize you.
Thank you, Council President Verna and members of Council. My name is I'm Chuck Hardy. I'm from the law firm of Sprague & Sprague.
Excuse me, Mr. Hardy. Please, we are trying to conduct business. Let's give our speakers respect. Thank you. Mr. Hardy.
Thank you, Council 69 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS President. Members of Council, standing behind me are representatives of the five community groups that represent the neighborhoods that will be most affected by the development of new stadiums in South Philadelphia, as they have been the most affected neighborhoods over the past 30 years by the Veterans Stadium and other stadium facilities located in South Philadelphia. They are long-suffering people. The civic associations I represent are the Packer Park Civic Association, Veterans Stadium Neighbors, Stadium Community Council, Inc., the South Philadelphia Communities Civic Association, and Broad Street West. The representatives of these groups have been working day and night for the last 10 days with Council President Verna, with the Mayor, with the teams and with representatives of various interested parties to see if it would be possible in the development of new stadiums in South Philadelphia to protect and enhance, if at all possible, the quality of life in the neighborhoods surrounding the stadium complex. I am please to report this morning that after discussions regarding many issues relating to 70 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS scheduling, relating to impacts on the community, relating to uses of parking areas, relating to noise from aircraft overhead and dozens and dozens of other issues that the communities have come together and speak with one voice and are united in saying that they feel comfortable that if the package of 8 bills, as amended, is reported out by the Committee 9 of the Whole and are enacted that the interest of 10 the community will in all likelihood be well 11 represented and protected in the course of the next 12 three or four years of intensive construction and 13 demolition and, hopefully, for many, many years thereafter of active use of all these facilities, hopefully, by very, very successful sports teams. Thank you.
And I'd like you to, if I could again recognize the representatives of the civic associations who are here with me. (Applause.)
Are there any other questions from members of the committee on any 71 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS one of the bills and/or amendments? The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
I just have a couple questions about some of the terminology that's in the MBE WBE statements here. On the Eagles construction part of the contract of the statement, around the seventh sentence talk about the fact that the percentage of participation will be based on the total construction costs including change orders add-ons and the scope adjustments but shall not include construction work performed by sole source contractors or contractors that perform unique specialty services. Could you expand and explain what that means exactly and what percentage of a normal job would fall under sole source and/or specialty services?
Councilwoman, I'll try to be responsive. I would actually say probably in a normal job, you build an office building or a warehouse, there would be very little of this. Actually, what raises this is the fact you're building a stadium. I think a very good example is the colored huge TV score board that you'll have in 72 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS a stadium that does the replays. Ours in Philadelphia happens to be kind of old. I know we've talked over the last couple weeks, you don't attend a lot of sports events, but if you went to the --
You should start. Maybe that will be the result of this process. If you go to the new facility in Baltimore, they have a score board that's almost a whole one side of the building and it's like you're watching a TV; it's that huge. Well, that is made, I think, by a single company. There's a company makes it. One company makes it. And I use that example. If the Eagles want to have something that's that exciting in their building, this gives them the capability, well, they have to buy it. There are no MBEs WBEs to do it and so they just didn't want to be penalized that that might happen. There might be some other kind of unique -- I don't know anything about them, who makes goal posts or maybe there's something else that's unique that would fall under that category. That's what it's 73 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS meant to cover.
So that that's unique and specialize and it won't really be a whole bunch of that on this project?
Well, a score board might be expensive, but it's those of kind of items. There are not a lot of items, but they might be expensive items.
Okay. And also, where it says that the -- I think it's 1 o'clock in the morning and I'm just a little bit tired. Hold on. I'm still going to be in the same paragraph. I have to find my sentence. Oh, okay. The second paragraph from the bottom that's where it ends. It says, "But will not be required to contract with entities that are not the lowest responsible and responsive bidders or are not otherwise competitive with respect to service, time and price." Can you tell me what that means a little bit? How will you then select a contractor?
I think the example might be, Councilwoman, as you know, as I guess we all know, what it drives us here this evening at 74 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS 1:15 is this very tight schedule. So let's just say that the Eagles bid out a piece of work that absolutely has to get done within 60 days. Might even be like the demolition of T-Warehouse. And a firm responds and they're lowest but they say, "It will take us four months to do it, not two months." That's not a responsive bid, that's not what we want, we need it done now. So there are issues that come up like that that they have a capability to say we have to pick who meets the requirements of what we need to get done in terms of service, time and obviously, as you recall, we also put on them the obligation for any cost overruns so they have a budget. And I'm looking at Councilman Mariano who's familiar with the construction industry. If you think a sewer is supposed to cost a hundred thousand dollars and comes in twice that price, you're probably going to re-bid it and try to get it in at price.
Okay. One of the things that -- I just want to make sure that whatever we do there's a mechanism in place, because a lot of times this looks good on paper, but in practice there are problems. And if problems, 75 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS whether they're big problems or not small problems occur, there needs to be some kind of mechanism that we think about in the beginning. And I learned that from the Kvaerner project. Down here in the back it says that you're going to have an oversight committee. "The Eagles agree to participate regularly on an oversight committee to monitor overall compliance." So who will be members of the oversight committee. Will that be a combination of the city, the teams, Greater Urban Coalition? That's a at the top.
Right. I don't believe the committees have been established, but I think you're absolutely right, Councilwoman. It would include City representation, the teams, and probably organizations that participate in these kinds of activities. I think I just want to, Councilwoman, because we dealt collectively with some of the problems that came up in the Kvaerner project which I think we talked about this on the floor of Council several days ago. That was a situation where perhaps -- and I'm not excusing it, okay? Perhaps 76 12/7/00 - WHOLE - STADIUM BILLS it was an foreign company came here and they didn't understand that when they signed up for it, it meant do it. I think it is absolutely clear that the Eagles and the Phillies understand they're signing up for something and they need to do it.
Because if we start using words like best effort, diligent, you know, all those kind of terms, they sound good but then in practice my ability to be -- my level of diligency could be different from yours, and we just need to make sure that we have a mechanism in place that's truly going to monitor and I would ask that the Administration can -- that we from City Council can have a representative on the oversight committee as a part of the Administration's representation.
I'll be happy to share that with the Mayor and I'm sure he'll be receptive, Councilwoman.
Are there any other questions from members of the committee? Are there any other questions from members of the committee? Since there are none, we will conclude our public hearing and go into our public meeting. - - - 78 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC MEETING COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Thursday, December 7, 2000 - - - Public Meeting conducted by the Committee of the Whole, held in Room 401, City Hall, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on the above date, to consider action on the following: BILL NOS. 000705, 000706, 000721, 000722, 000723, 000724, 000725, 000726, 000728, 000729, 000730, 000731, 000732, 000733 - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK J. DI CICCO COUNCILMAN WILSON W. GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN W. THACHER LONGSTRETH COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - 79 PUBLIC MEETING
The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell regarding Bill No. 4 000705.
Madam President, I move that Bill 000705 be adopted as amended.
The amendment is reflected in your pink bill. We had a previous hearing. Does anyone want to look at it before you vote on it? Do I hear a second. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that the Bill No. 16 000705, as amended, be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Session of Council. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell regarding Bill No. 000706.
Are we voting on the Administration's bills together at once?
Well, we have 80 PUBLIC MEETING to amend them first.
We had a hearing on 000705 previously, if you recall, and we just kept rolling the hearing dates. 000705, we have the pink bill and it reflects the bill.
To adopt the amendment and suspend the rules. That's what we just did. Okay? It's already reflected in the bill.
Bill 000706 amendments were introduced this evening. Everybody received a copy of it in regards to scheduling. It schedules the repair of the Vet. Does everybody have a copy of it and know what it is? It's regarding the Vet repairs. You want to make a motion?
Madam President, I move that Bill 000706 -- Madam President, I move that the amendments to Bill 000706 be adopted. (Duly seconded.) 81 PUBLIC MEETING
It has been moved and properly seconded that amendments regarding Bill No. 000706 be approved. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.) Those opposed?
The record will reflect that Councilman Cohen voted no. 11 The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Madam President, I move that Bill 000706, as amended, be adopted and reported out of committee with a favorable and that the rules be suspended so as to permit first consideration at this Session of Council -- I don't know if we'll figure it out tonight, but we'll try to get it done.
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000706, as amended be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Session of Council. 82 PUBLIC MEETING All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.) Those opposed?
The record will reflect Councilman Cohen voted no. 8
Madam President, because I believe public monies are so vast and unjustified for this project and because I also believe it creates all kinds of legal questions and because it's impossible to separate these bills and the amendments from the bills, I will be voting no 14 on every bill and on every amendment offered by the Administration in support of this transaction. That does not refer to the amendments offered individually by Councilmembers tonight.
Plus, Madam Chairman, in 30 years from now he doesn't want to have to justify his vote. (Laughter.)
We're now going to be considering bill 000721, 000722, 000723, 000724, and 000725. The Administration did submit 83 PUBLIC MEETING amendments which will now be considered. We'll do them individually so there's no legal problem Councilman, okay? The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that the amendments to Bill 9 000721 be adopted.
It has been moved and properly seconded that the amendments to Bill No. 000721 be adopted. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the amendment has been adopted. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Madam President, I move that Bill 000721, as amended be --
Maybe we can get clarification from the Chair. Should we not be dealing with the amendments offered by myself, Councilman Ortiz, and Councilman DiCicco before we vote that 000721 or 000722 out of committee?
I forgot about your amendment. How could I do that? Bill No. 000721, we have an amendment from Councilman DiCicco regarding the naming rights. Councilman.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move for the adoption of the amendment to Bill 000721. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Councilman DiCicco's amendment on Bill 000721 be adopted. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.) Those opposed? The ayes have it. The amendment has been adopted. I believe there is another amendment offered by Councilman Kenney. 85 PUBLIC MEETING
Madam Chair, I move the amendment on the City suite on Bill No. 000721. (Duly seconded.)
Roll call. Is Ms. Rafferty here? Just a roll call, Pat.
No. 17 Very close vote. Six yeses, nine nos. The amendment fails. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell -- The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Madam Chair, I move that the amendment on Bill 000721 be approved. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly second that amendment to Bill No. 87 PUBLIC MEETING 000721 be approved. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
No. 15 The vote is 6 yes, 9 no. The amendment fails. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell regarding Bill No. 000722.
Madam President, I think I need to move that Bill 000721, as amended, be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit consideration at our next session. (Duly seconded.) 89 PUBLIC MEETING
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000721 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, as amended, also a recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Session of Council. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The record will reflect that both Councilmembers Ortiz and Cohen voted no. 16 The bill has been passed. The amendments have been adopted and the bill will be considered at our next Session of Council. The next bill to be considered is Bill 20 No. 000722. We'll consider the Administration's amendments first. You all have a copy of the amendment? 000722. Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that the amendment to Bill 90 PUBLIC MEETING 000722 be adopted. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that amendments to Bill No. 6 000722 be adopted. All in favor --
I'm sorry. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I apologize. To right ahead.
I think there's no 13 amendment -- non-Adminstration amendments now?
Well, I don't think there's one -- there was not one similar to Councilman DiCicco's for 000722. The only one on 000722 are mine and Ortiz.
000722 on Councilman Ortiz. 000722 on yourself John?
Yes. It's the same amendment for both 000721 and 000722. And I would be willing to submit to a voice vote, but I would like to stipulate that the vote is still 9 to 6. Move the adoption. 91 PUBLIC MEETING
All those in favor of Councilman Kenney's amendment will please signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
Thank you. We will now consider Councilman Ortiz's amendments. Do we here a motion.
All those in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
Madam President, I move that Bill 000722, as amended, be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and also representation that the Rules of Council be suspended so as to permit consideration at our next Session of Council.
It's been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000722, as amended, be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Session of Council. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
Thank you. Next bill to be considered is Bill No. 4 000723. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that the amendments to Bill 9 000723 be adopted. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that the amendments to Bill No. 000723 be adopted. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the amendments has been adopted. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that Bill 000723, as amended be reported out of committee with a 94 PUBLIC MEETING favorable recommendation and also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit consideration at our next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000723 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, as amended, also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit consideration at our next Session of Council. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion has been adopted. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that the amendments to Bill 23 000724 be adopted. (Duly seconded.)
It has been 95 PUBLIC MEETING moved and properly seconded that the amendments to Bill No. 000724 be adopted. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the amendments has been adopted.
Madam President, I move that Bill 000724, as amended be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and also that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first consideration at our next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000724 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, as amended, also a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Session of Council. All in favor will signify by saying aye. 96 PUBLIC MEETING (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell regarding Bill NO. 000725.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that the amendments to Bill 12 000725 be adopted. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that the amendments to Bill No. 000725 be approved. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
Were there two lonely voices. Were there two nos? The record will so reflect. 97 PUBLIC MEETING
Madam President, I move that Bill 000725, as amended, be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and also that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit consideration at our next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000725, as amended, be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Session of Council. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The record will reflect that Councilman Ortiz and Cohen voted no. 23 The next bill that amendment that we are considering is Bill 000726. We had a hearing on these bills. We had proposed them but we thought we 98 PUBLIC MEETING would adopt them this evening rather than at the time of the public hearing because, if you recall, we were rolling the bills over. This is regarding the sports stadium district. Does everybody have a copy? These were my amendments regarding the sports stadium district and the north lot. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that the amendments to Bill 12 000726 be adopted. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that the amendments to Bill No. 000726 be approved. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
Unanimous ayes on Bill 000726 on the amendments. The Chair now recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell regarding Bill No. 000726.
Thank you, 99 PUBLIC MEETING Madam President. I move that Bill 000726, as amended, be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first consideration at our next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000726 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, as amended, also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit consideration at out next Session of Council. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion passes. We are now going to consider an adoption to Bill No. 000728. Again, this was a public hearing. There was a proposed zoning map. Those who were on the Rules Committee did receive it -- this was the Committee of the Whole, I'm sorry. 100 PUBLIC MEETING This was regarding the sports stadium issue. It's being distributed. We did not vote for it at the time of the public hearing because we were having the roll-over and we said that we would do it tonight. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell regarding bill 000728.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that the amendments to Bill 11 000728 be adopted. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that the amendments to Bill No. 15 000728 be approved. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that Bill 000728, as 101 PUBLIC MEETING amended, be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit consideration at our next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000728 be reported out of committee, as amended, with a favorable recommendation, also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at out next Session of Council. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion has been carried. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Madam President, I move that Bill 000729 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit consideration at our next 102 PUBLIC MEETING Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 000729 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended --
I believe it's condemnation for one of the properties.
Madam President, I move that Bill 729 be reported out of committee also a favorable recommendation and also a recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended so as to permit consideration at our next 103 PUBLIC MEETING Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000729 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at out next Session of Council. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Madam President, I move that Bill 000730 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit consideration at our next Session of Council. 104 PUBLIC MEETING (Duly seconded.)
The ayes have it and the motion has been carried. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman -- I'm sorry. We didn't ask for a suspension on that, did we? Can we try that again, please. I'm sorry.
Madam President, I move that Bill 000730 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit consideration at our next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.) 105 PUBLIC MEETING
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000730 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at out next Session of Council. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Madam President, I move that Bill 000731 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first consideration at our next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000731 be 106 PUBLIC MEETING reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at out next Session of Council. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion has been carried. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell regarding Bill No. 000732.
Madam President, I move that Bill 000732 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first consideration at our next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000732 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, also a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit 107 PUBLIC MEETING consideration at out next meeting. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
Madam 11 President, I move that Bill 000733 be reported out 12 of committee with a favorable recommendation and 13 also a recommendation that the rules of Council be 14 suspended so as to permit first consideration at our 15 next Session of Council. 16 (Duly seconded.) 17
It has been 18 moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000733 be 19 reported out of committee with a favorable 20 recommendation, also a recommendation that the rules 21 of Council be suspended so as to permit first 22 reading at out next Council Session. 23 All in favor will signify by saying aye. 24 (Aye.) 25
The ayes have 5 it and passes. 6 I can't thank all of you enough. I know that that was our last bill, but you have all been terrific. I thank that you were tough. We really hung out there today and I think that it really showed a determination of working together and doing things in the right way. Again, I know that the hour is late, but we were determined to do this today or tonight. We got it done and we could never have done it without your consideration I personally want to thank each and everyone of you.
Thank you and good morning. (Council adjourned at 1:45 a.m.) - - - 109 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of December 7, 2000, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. RE: COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ___________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR and Notary Public