COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Wednesday, 11/14/01 a.m. 6 Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, PA 7 - - - 8 9 BILL 010646 - An ordinance amending Chapter 20-500 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Councilmatic 10 Districts," by revising the boundaries of the Councilmatic Districts, under certain terms and 11 conditions. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE L. BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK J. DICICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN W. THACHER LONGSTRETH COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 WITNESS Dr. Irving Smiler, President .................. Bridge Pratt Business and Professional Association Billy Gambrel, Frankford resident ............. 6 Father Bob Pazzoli, Pastor, St. Joachim Parish 7 Vincent Catanzarro, Executive Director ........ 8 Holy Family Neighborhood Center 9 Steve Culbertson, Executive Director .......... Frankford Group Ministry CDC 10 Kate Clark, Executive Director ................ 11 Frankford United Neighbors CDC 12 Ken Rooch, Frankford Group Ministry CDC ....... 13 Carol Shirley, Frankford Business Association 18 14 Ellsworth Barrett, Frankford resident ......... 23 15 Victor Vasquez, Pennsylvania Latino ........... 25 Voting Rights Committee, Philadelphia Chapter 16 Maria Quinones Santos, Latino Voting Rights 30 3 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646
Good morning, everyone. I do apologize to our witnesses for the delay. This is the public hearing for the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill No. 010646. I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the title of the bill.
Bill No. 010646, an ordinance amending Chapter 20-500 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Councilmatic Districts," by revising the boundaries of the Councilmatic Districts, under certain terms and conditions.
Dr. Smiler, President of Bridge Pratt Business and Professional Association.
Good morning, sir. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
My name is Dr. Irving Smiler. I have been practicing podiatry for 51 years at 1546 Pratt Street. Earlier on in my career, I joined the American Division Frankford Post. Several years later, I was invited to join the Frankford Lions Club. At a later date, I became interested in the problems of the Frankford community. The neighborhood was going down fast: People did not feel safe; patients did not want to come to Frankford or to my office; streets and sidewalks were not clean; stores were closing rapidly. The Bridge Pratt Business and Professional Association was formed in 1988. At the present time, I serve as its president. Our mission is to improve the business, residential, and transportation environment in the area. Several other prominent organizations started about the same time. The overall theme is turning a neighborhood around. The organizations working together can boast of the Frankford Plan Main Street Program and construction of a $180 million Frankford 5 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 Transportation Center. This will be the finest inner-city public transportation center in the nation. New stores are opening. The streets and sidewalks are clean, thanks to the Frankford Special Services District. Crime has decreased and people feel safer. Frankford Hospital built a completely new hospital. All of this could not have happened without the assistance of our City Council representative, Rick Mariano. When we need his help, he listens, studies the situation, and makes positive action. Rick Mariano knows and understands Frankford. He cares about our community. In my opinion, this redistricting plan proposed legislation for the 7th Councilmatic District would be a mistake. Frankford is a multiracial, multi-ethnic, multi-religious community, with 30,000 people at various economic levels. In our neighborhood, people with modest economic means can share in the American dream. On behalf of the Bridge Pratt Business and Professional Association, I urge you to keep Councilman Rick Mariano in Frankford. Help us to 6 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 finish the job to make Frankford the best that it can be. Thank you.
Billy Gambrel (ph.), resident of Frankford. (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning, sir. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Yes. My name is William Gambrel, from the 7th Councilmatic District. I am currently vice president of the Frankford Chargers Athletic Association, Athletic Director, and community work person --
Excuse me, sir. The noise level is much too high. I think you deserve a little more respect than that. Please speak into the microphone.
Thank you very much. 7 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 I've worked very hard in the community, I've tried to support Frankford for years and years, and I've done things that I, you know, want to do to make the Frankford community a much better place to live and to raise the children and a nice community. And we have long waited for a councilman to service us the way Councilman Mariano has served us. We are very pleased with his service, and I would like to see things stay the same as it's been in the area, with no change of any plans or anything, because we certainly have a lot of improvement in the Frankford area, especially with our young, and I would like to see that continue to be that way, and we can continue to do the same thing we can to support the elderly and the people of the Frankford community for which is well needed in order to keep a safe and healthy community. And I'm very appreciative of everything that's going on right now, and I'd like it to stay that way. Thank you very much.
Our next witness is Father 8 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 Pazzoli.
Is Father Pazzoli here? (Witness comes forward.)
Please identify yourself for the record, Father.
Council President Verna and members of Council, my name is Father Bob Pazzoli. I'm (indiscernible)at St. Francis De Sales and the pastor of St. Joachim parish in the Frankford section of Philadelphia. Founded in 1845, St. Joachim has been a vital part of Frankford, even before the town was incorporated into our city in 1854. Our neighborhood, Frankford, is quite unique -- from the Historical Society on Orthodox Street to the Civil War Museum on Griscom Street, from the many churches and faiths that offer worship services and social services to the variety of cultures and races from which our neighbors come. From the 1700 era homes in the east to the mansions in the northwest, our neighborhood is definitely 9 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 unique. And though the neighborhood has been through some difficult times, there is a resurgence happening. Many churches and community organizations have come together and have worked with our councilman to bring about many positive changes, and Frankford is once again, we are happy to say, coming back to life. Since 1997, St. Joachim parish has made a concerted effort to revitalize ourselves as a member of the Frankford community. As part of our revitalization effort, we have joined the Eastern Pennsylvania Organizing Project, known as EPOP, and have worked to organize ourselves as a faith-based community in addressing issues in our neighborhood. This revitalization has led St. Joachim EPOP to partner with the Frankford Group Ministry Community Development Corporation and Councilman Mariano in addressing the issue of abandoned houses in Frankford. We seek to recycle housing, not tear it down. In light of the EPOP blight plan for the City of Philadelphia, as I am sure you are, aware establishing an effective and viable partnership to bring about change, it takes an enormous amount of 10 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 time and effort. Relationships are vital if the partnership is to be successful. An important part of this relationship is knowing each other and sharing each other's visions and concerns. At this critical time in the history of our neighborhood, I would need to speak against any proposal for redistricting that would not only disrupt our present partnership with Councilman Mariano but would, more importantly, interfere with any progress that is presently being made, and, worst yet, it would be a redistricting proposal that splits or divides a town, a neighborhood that has been together since the 1800s, killing any progress and any chance for life for the sake of some compromise. Thank you for allowing me to testify, Councilwoman.
The next witness is Vincent Catanzarro (ph.), Executive Director of the Holy Family Neighborhood Center. (Witness comes forward.) 11 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646
Okay, My name is Vincent Catanzarro, and I am the executive director of the Holy Family Neighborhood Center. I have been the director there for about two years, and it is an urban mission, and we are deeply involved with the Frankford community. As far as my observations, they are objective, and I want to say clearly that Councilman Mariano has been very effective in providing programs and assistance to the people of Frankford, so I represent not only myself but I represent my organization and the people that have expressed that to me. He has been very effective in supporting a neighborhood playground and park, which was taken from a blight program -- in other words, a situation where there were many abandoned cars -- and he assisted us in developing this particular playground. It is a beautiful playground, it's still being built, and it is a testimony [sic] to his cooperation with the people. As far as the councilman, he is an advocate for all of the people because I have seen this time and time again. People that are in need, 12 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 he does come to their service. We are establishing an advocacy program which will represent many of the people in East Frankford so that they can have one voice, and we have about 60 to 80 names, and the Councilman has been very effective in providing this. My organization works with the elderly and the young. We have after school tutoring programs and situations that empower children to do well in school. The councilman has also assisted us in after-school tutoring programs. I would say at this point what I'm telling you is an observation and -- that is clear. I see that the councilman has been effective, and I would say at this point, don't rock the boat, because East Frankford is having the resurgence, and the neighborhood is coming back. You could see it within the stores, and the people have a sense of hope. Thank you.
The next witness is Steve 13 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 Culbertson. (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning. My name is Steve Culbertson, the executive director of the Community Development Corporation of Frankford Group Ministry. I'm also representing Reverend Robin (indiscernible), the executive director of Frankford Group Ministry. I've been working in Philadelphia in community development for about 12 years. I've worked in various capacities in various neighborhoods, and the question that I really have today for the Council is, when you've got something that really works and where you have a neighborhood that really is working closely with a councilman to revitalize the community, why change it? We have, all of us that are gathered here, a really good relationship with Councilman Mariano and his staff. We are bringing back Frankford. Property values have gone up, Frankford Avenue is feeling resurgent, there are many new stores there, there are some antique stores, there's a new cafe. 14 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 Why are we going to change it for the sake of political expediency? I think that it's really important that keep Frankford together. I think it's really, really important that we keep Rick Mariano as our councilman in this area of Frankford for the foreseeable future. Besides, they've just gotten used to me being a pain in their ass, and I don't want to have to train another group of staff at a councilman's office. Thanks a lot.
Good morning. My name is Kate Clark, and I'm the executive director of Frankford United Neighbors Community Development Corporation and Neighborhood Advisory Council. I'm also the chair of the Frankford Plan 2000. Most of the people who have sat here before me have basically said everything that I have 15 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 wanted to say. Mr. Culbertson summed it up beautifully -- if it's not broken, why fix it? Councilman Mariano has been representing those persons in the Frankford community in the 7th Councilmatic District wonderfully when each of us come into his office and look what we need to get done for the resurgence of this community. And this community is on the move, we are being revitalized, because if that weren't happening, I don't think we'd be sitting here today discussing this wonderful community. So, therefore, why are we changing the horse in the middle of the stream? We really need to keep Councilman Mariano there. We need for this body here to move on to continue to fight for the people of the City of Philadelphia. We need to talk about the Philadelphia blight plan so that we can take care of other business here in the city. Thank you.
The next witness is Ken Rooch (ph.). 16 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning. My name is Ken Rook, and I represent the Community Development Corporation of Frankford Group Ministry. I run the Frankford Street program. My job is to work with the businesses on the avenue. Because of his knowledge in Frankford and its problems, Councilman Mariano has been very supportive of both new business and expansion. He constantly expresses that the business merchants include the Frankford community in their plans for future growth. He's always supportive of our promotions and community events by his attendance and genuine interest for our concerns. His staff reacts quickly in solving problems as they arise, which is a reflection of Councilman Mariano's dedication. Frankford needs all the help it can get in its quest for returning to its former status as a main shopping center. Losing Councilman Mariano would be a serious setback for the Frankford community and the business district. 17 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 Thank you.
Thank you, Madam President. I just wanted to take the opportunity during the course of this testimony, which is very favorable to Councilman Mariano, and I think he deserves their kudos. I just want to say that as a resident of the 1st Councilmatic District, I'm extremely happy with the support and representation of my district councilman, Councilman DiCicco, who has worked very hard to improve the business climate in South Philadelphia and has cleaned our streets and has done lots of things to make our neighborhood a better place to live. So since we're giving kudos out, I wanted to talk about my own district councilperson, Councilman DiCicco, who's doing a wonderful job. And if anyone has the opportunity to be represented by him, I'm sure they'd be happy with his service. Thank you. 18 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646
Good morning, Madam President and distinguished members of Council. My name is Carol Shirley. I come today as a representative of the Frankford Business Association and as a business owner in Frankford. I'd like to start with a quote from Rousseau. I'll keep my remarks brief, even though my papers look a little heavy here. "The world of reality is limited. " Our reality may limit us to having to accept the redistricting of Frankford, and this would be a great mistake at this juncture. Our imagination, however, includes the hopes of maintaining our district, keeping Rick Mariano as our councilman to do the job he was elected to do, and to grow with the arts, business, and community that has taken on a life of its own in our village of Frankford. 19 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 Have any of you been to Frankford lately? Have you seen the shops that are growing? Have you seen the smiles on the faces of our residents because of the beauty that's being brought into their community? Have you heard about the film that has just been completed, done about the Frankford community, sponsored by the Lion Theater, Frankford United Neighbors, and the Frankford Historical Society? This film is about to be introduced into the Sundance Film Festival. Do you realize how important it for us to keep our district and our councilman, Rick Mariano? He's been a great supporter of all of the wonderful things that are happening there. If you haven't been to Frankford, if you don't realize the work, the love, the dreams that have gone into making this community vibrant, to bringing it back, then how can you make a decision to divide this district, and how does it go through the loss of our councilman? Frankford, with the support of many wonderful and hard-working people such as Rick Mariano, has been like a rainbow coming out with the sun that's shining in our community at this time. 20 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 We cannot afford to lose this momentum. We need Mr. Mariano. We need our district to continue the success of this community. This is not the time to rearrange the pieces of this puzzle. It may never fit in the same way again. I say this as a business owner in Frankford, as the treasurer and representative of the Frankford Business Association, and as someone concerned for the future of a growing, thriving business district that has been neglected for many, many years. Rick Mariano has been our councilman during this wonderful renaissance that Frankford is experiencing. This is a crisis within our community. That our district would be restructured could be disastrous to our stability and our continued growth and success. Rick Mariano has been a great supporter of the rebirth of the business district in Frankford. He has supported the arts in our district and is a strong supporter of the Frankford Plan 2000. Also, the Frankford Arts Festival, which, within just two years, has brought artists, performers, visitors, dignitaries, community groups from all over in the 21 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 City numbering in the thousands to enjoy the Frankford Art Festival. Rick Mariano has been supportive of our problems and concerns regarding abandoned and deteriorating buildings. The fight on crime and graffiti in this area has become extremely aggressive with the support of Rick Mariano. He listens, he understands the needs of this area. He needs to be here right now. We need this leadership and his understanding. We need the close working relationship with our council representative. Rick Mariano has a representative at our business association meetings that listens to our concerns and tries to help us work through problems. Rick Mariano's office is accessible to his constituents, has a friendly, helpful staff. And they keep in touch on a grassroots level. Frankford is diversity, art, laughter, community. Frankford is a village of dreams that is becoming a reality. Frankford is strong and growing.
Frankford needs to remain the district that it has been, and we need Mr. Mariano. I leave you with these four words of 22 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 Stella Carol Mann: Desire, ask, believe, and receive. We as the people of Frankford desire our dreams. We ask that we remain the district we are. We believe in the future of Frankford, and we hope to receive all that we desire. Keep our district intact. Keep Rick Mariano as our councilman Thank you.
Thank you, Madam President. Carol, I want to thank you for all that. And I've been called a lot of things, even today, but I've never been called a rainbow before. So I don't know what to say. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Ellsworth Barrett. (Witness comes forward.) 23 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646
Madam Chairman, I was born in Frankford eighty years ago. My parents has been there for a hundred years. I'm a member of the (indiscernible) church, which is a part of the Underground Railroad. We have a long history, and I'm currently a liaison with Rick Mariano. Now, when me and Rick was talking, all the committeemen, you couldn't get nothing done 'cause the committee would say, You go back to your territory and I'll stay in mine. So Rick appointed me liaison. I get to all the people. People start calling me and (indiscernible), Go down there and see and this get this done. So I followed, you know? I try to organize the people, see? But we ain't all the invisible man, you know? And so Rick is the first councilman to ever win 2 terms in years. These people are not 25 crazy, they know that a councilman gets up there and 24 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 he doesn't do nothing, and East Frankford is the one they (indiscernible) on. They don't want to do nothing for East Frankford, you know? So Rick won a second term, you know? And so we're with Rick, and Rick is a man of labor. And, Madam Chairman, let the record show that Rick is a man of labor. If it wasn't for labor, we wouldn't have been able to exist after the depression and World War II. I (indiscernible) for years, incidentally. 12 And, Madam Chairman, also let the record 13 show that I believe that this is not redistricting; 14 this is a jerrymander for political purposes this is 15 set up and for a jerrymander. That's what it is. 16 And, Madam Chairman, let the record show 17 the fastest way to the Northeast is I-95 'cause this 18 road is difficult. Thank you very much. 19
The next witness is Victor 24 Vasquez. 25 (Witnesses come forward.) 25 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646
Good morning, Madam President and members of Council and guests. My name is Victor Vasquez, and I'm here representing the Pennsylvania Latino Voting Rights Committee, Philadelphia Chapter. Again, as two months ago, I'm here with a very heavy heart. Two months ago, I spoke before this body, just a few days after the World Trade Center disaster. And a couple of days ago, New York City experienced another disaster, which has impacted the Latino community there and here. So it's -- my condolences to everyone and their family. We were pleased that the Mayor vetoed the redistricting bill that was passed by this body because it did not satisfy, in all fairness, the Latino community. And essentially what we have been seeking as a voting rights committee is fairness for the committee and for the community. And so, the restructuring -- the committee that was set up after the Mayor's veto to address the redistricting process is one that I think, and our committee feels, should be incorporated into 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 future processes of this nature and this body; that is, a committee made up of members of the Council to organize and orchestrate the redistricting process. And I think that we'd like to see, Madam President and other members of this body, enact the appropriate regulations so that the next redistricting process can be a little bit more open and a little bit more fair. Although we are pleased with the plan that we've seen put forth by the committee last week, which increases the Latino percentages in the 7th Councilmatic District to 44 percent, we must go on record, Madam President, establishing that we have some concerns with this bill. We, of course, have always argued for the largest percentage of Latino presence in the 7th Councilmatic District, but by the same token, we've also argued for a compact district and not the dividing up of communities. And in the current bill, 010646, it concerns us that there are some divisions of the 23rd Ward and the 35th Ward that are being taken out, which, again contributes to the strangest-looking City Council map in this proposal. In particular, I want to call the 27 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 attention of this body to the one place where this proposed 7th Councilmatic District connects, which is Oxford Circle. I, for the life of me, still do not understand what it is about that particular connection that makes it our (indiscernible) because the proposed 179th Legislative District by the state Reapportionment Commission also connects the district right there. That's the antithesis to contiguity, an issue that's already been raised. And so we have a serious objection to the way that this map is constructed. So that we want to go on record saying that we support the bill in terms of the 44 percent inclusion of Latinos in the 7th Councilmatic District, but we do have serious reservations about the way this map looks and the lack of contiguity and the lack of compactness. Finally what I would like to say is reiterate that I would hope that this body looks at the experience of this redistricting process and implements one that is more fair, that the option of a committee of the body, which has been working for the last couple of weeks, become the norm, and that the process be more open and not just exclusively incumbent-driven. 28 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. Are there any questions or comments from the committee? The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
We looked into seeing how compact it was because we had to maintain the integrity of the Feltonville area where the Latino community is at. So the issue here is -- because I -- your comments may be misunderstood here, you know, in terms of the support for the plan as it currently stands.
Or there's a misunderstanding here and I would wish that you would make that very clear.
Well, let me repeat, Councilman. We are in support of bill, but we have some reservations, and our reservations have to do with the shape of the district. We think that it was very important to have included, as you pointed out, Feltonville, 29 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 where I'm a resident, in a more contiguous fashion, but we are still troubled by the way the district snakes across. The last time we were talking to Councilmembers before the bill was actually passed and vetoed by the Mayor, we had the opportunity to circulate -- I think Councilwoman Tasco and a couple of others had the opportunity to look at Council redistricting maps from 1960, 1970, and 1980. And if you look at those maps and compare them to the 1990 and the current proposed maps, you will see a drastic difference in the configuration of the 7th Councilmatic District over a 50-year process period. It is maybe coincidental that it's in the 7th Councilmatic District where the Latino population has grown. And so there is some correlation there that is disturbing to us, that you go from 1960 to 1970 with fairly compact districts and then you begin to see a shift in the way those districts are configured. And the 7th Councilmatic District, Councilman Ortiz, if you look at that map, you know, an elementary school student could tell you what's wrong with the map as it looks. 30 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646
But what percentage of Latinos were there in the 60s?
Well, it was -- the point is not what percentage but where they were. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And the fact of the matter is, if you look at the --
Maria Quinones Santos, a member of the Latino Voting Rights Network. If you look at the 1963 map, which would be our ideal, what you see is, our community is compact, and what you would have found at that particular time is that probably more than half of our community was within those boundaries. I think the concern that we have -- and it's the concern that you heard this morning from members of the Frankford community, which we have to join 'em in that, because we've worked very hard in the Latino community to develop the infrastructure, revitalize our communities. What concerns us in the shift of in the way this district attempts to loop the Northeast to growing communities, Latino and minority growing 31 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 communities and Frankford, is that it stalls the process of development that is going on that we, as new immigrants and as new folks coming into those neighborhoods, want to be part of the revitalization process. We don't want to divide progress that's already going on. The Frankford community is an important component -- Northwood, Oxford Circle. Those are our growing communities that are changing demographically, and we want to make sure that the work that's being done continues as we migrate into those neighborhoods. This district, what it does is, it tears that up. It breaks it up in the east part.
So what you're suggesting is that we eliminate the top part of the district and make it compact, eliminate the top part of the --
The Latino Voting Rights committee's first goal is to enhance the 7th Councilmatic District. Its second goal is to keep communities together, communities that share schools, that share churches, that share businesses. And we believe that this map could better represent 32 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 that.
But then how do you achieve a 44, 45 percent Latino district?
For whatever reason, there is this -- and Victor talked about it. There is this need to link up the southern part of the Northeast with the top part of the Northeast. We don't --
You're creating a 10-district map; you're not creating one district.
No, and what we're saying is that if you look at the '63 map and the '71 map, it will show you -- in fact, we presented to this legislative body a map that was 51 percent, and it was very compact and took into account all of those things. We didn't come and ask for that. We said we wanted a 45 percent map that we believed achieved our two goals, which is enhancing the district and keeping communities intact.
Thank you, Madam 33 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 President. Let me take you back for a moment to the '91 process. My understanding as to the creation of this snake-like district occurred -- if I'm wrong, correct me -- occurred in '91 as a result of trying to create a more Latino-influenced district in the 7th district, and that's -- in order to do that and to get a bill that was politically acceptable to the Councilmembers who had a vote on it, that was -- that regrettable shape came into being. Is that correct or not?
No. In fact, the reaching of the Northeast happens -- it begins in the '70s, and the '83 map -- I believe there was an '81 and an '83 map. The '83 map is the one that goes and really draws the Northeast into what we consider to be a lower Northeast.
I wasn't in Council at the time; I had just been elected and waiting to be sworn in in '92, and I remember the battle going on in here. At the time, it was, I believe, Councilmember Matlack attempting to accommodate the Latino community and to create a more Latino-influenced district, which wound up 34 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 extenuating, I guess, or exacerbating the snake-like feature of this district. At that time, were you opposed to that? Or what was your position at the time?
And what was your -- I don't remember the testimony at the time. What was the --
We were again basically trying to accomplish two goals: One, the largest possible percentage of Latino voters in one district; and as compact a district as possible. In '91, we ran into the same problem we've run into this year around, and that is that the process is dominated largely by incumbent interests, which, you know, I can understand, but it's not supposed to be that way. And so that's why. In my opinion -- and this is just my opinion -- we get some of maps that we get. 35 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 But if you look at the way the district are shaped, the 7th Councilmatic District has the strangest shape. And our hope would have been for a better-looking map. The percentages of this bill we support a hundred percent.
It seems that during the course of this process, the difficulty has been attempting to reach the numbers that we're trying to reach, while at the same time being compact. What's more critical to you? Is it the percentages or is the compact nature? If you can only do one, what's more important; the compactness or the percentages?
Well, it's testing that you raise that, Councilman Kenney, because we had this discussion with Councilman Mariano, and he asked us the same question. In fact, he said, Would you accept, you know, 41 or 40 percent or 42 percent? You know, and we said to him, Councilman, the percentage is important to us but a compact district is equally important because you need to consider where the community is going. And so the percentages, you know, can go 36 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 back and forth, but it's a compact map that is really going to help the development of a community.
One of the problems that we face with the veto of the last bill was the Mayor's insistence on a percentage that was a reasonable percentage for the Latino-influenced district to have. I mean, in some ways, we're all a little confused because we're being pushed and pulled by various forces; some of those forces are issues of incumbency and politics, some of those forces are what the Mayor thinks he wants and wants us to do, by advocacy groups like yourself who are trying to, you know, get the best arrangement possible for the people you represent. It is a Herculean and almost impossible task to make everybody totally happy, and I know you're realistic enough to know that that's not actually going to happen. But I guess the correspondence I've read would indicate that your support your testimony -- and I think your testimony indicates it, your support of the plan that we're reviewing as we speak.
Yes, that is correct. 37 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646 We didn't have direct correspondence with the Mayor relative to the reasons why he vetoed, other than what he indicated to Council in terms of the map that was approved by Council not reflecting fairly the growth of the Latino community. That's as much as we got from the Mayor in terms of his interests. I don't know that he may have expressed to someone else that he was looking for a particular percentage; he didn't express that to us.
So let me try to just cull this down. Would you urge the members of Council to vote for this bill as presented today?
Thank you very much, sir. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee? (No response.) 38 11/14/01 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL 010646
Thank you. Do we have anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Seeing none, the committee will stand in recess until 1:30. I would ask that Councilmembers DiCicco Mariano, and Krajewski please come to my office. (Meeting recessed at 11:44 a.m.) - - -
The Committee of the Whole is recessed until 9 o'clock tomorrow morning. (Proceedings end at 2:00 p.m.) - - - 39 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia's meeting of the Council Committee of the Whole of Wednesday, November 14, 2001, are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. RE: Resolution No. 010646 _______________________________, Josephine Cardillo Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)