Committee Hearing, October 10, 2007

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, October 10, 2007 10:20 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO, CHAIR COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI BILL 070511 - An ordinance amending Section 16 6-307 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Foods Containing Artificial Trans Fats," by exempting certain bakeries... BILL 070153 - An ordinance amending Title 6 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Health Code," by adding a new section requiring that chain restaurants obtain and display certain nutrition information... - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2

Good morning. The recessed Committee of the Public Health and Human Services is now reconvened. We have a quorum in the presence of Councilman O'Neill, Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown, Councilman Goode and myself. Councilwoman Reynolds Brown does have an amendment to the bill. Bill 11 070153 is the bill that we're hearing. And would the Clerk just read the title so that we're clear and everybody is clear on the first bill we're hearing.

Bill No. 070153, an ordinance amending Title 6 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Health Code," by adding a new section requiring that chain restaurants obtain and display certain nutrition information for food, meal and beverage items offered for sale, and by making certain technical changes, all under certain terms and conditions.

Thank you very much. 3 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Good morning. We now recognize Councilman Juan Ramos. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown for the purpose of offering an amendment to the one that we just read, 070153.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I do offer an amendment, a proposed amendment, to Bill No. 070153.

Do we have the amendments?

Which has been circulated amongst our Committee members.

Councilwoman will give an overview of the amendments. The amendments are available over on the table for anyone to see, and the detailed amendments will be made part of the record.

The amendment essentially aims to clearly identify what is meant by "menu," the definition of "menu" in the bill as it's 4 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 currently written. So the amended language actually defines what a "menu" is, and it is stated as a written or printed description, whether in the form of a pamphlet, folio, tablet, sign, board or other form, of food or beverage items offered for sale.

Most of the amendments are technical, right?

They are technical in that they clarify the language. Another important amended language, it defines actually what "nutrients" are. So the word "nutrients" has been stricken from the text of the bill and the new language is "nutrition information" so that is clear throughout the text of the bill. And then, finally, under Penalties, the new language states, and I read, "For the purpose of enforcing the provisions of this Section, notices of violation shall be issued by the 5 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 authorized Health Department inspectors or any other persons authorized to enforce ordinances. Such notices of violation shall be issued under the procedures set forth in Section 1-112, except that the amount required to be remitted in response to a notice of violation shall be $150." So the violation or the fine specifies that it can be up to $500, but the minimum shall be $150. So I move for the adoption of the amendment. (Duly seconded.)

It has been moved and seconded that the amendment as offered will be accepted. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)

Those opposed? Councilman O'Neill.

No, I'm not opposed to the amendment.

I will go 6 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 on record to oppose the amendment. The ayes are four; the nays are one. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown to move the bill out of Committee.

Madam Chair, I move that Bill No --

I'm sorry. We go out of the public hearing into the public meeting. Now we ask you to move the bill 14 out of Committee.

Madam Chair, I move that Bill No. 070153 as amended be moved out of Committee with a favorable recommendation. (Duly seconded.)

It has been moved and seconded that Bill 070153 be reported out of Committee. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)

Nay. 7 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

And nay. There are two oppositions; three for the bill. The bill will be reported out of Committee. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Committee is now convened to hear testimony on 070511. The Clerk will now read the bill.

Bill No. 070511, an ordinance amending Section 6-307 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Foods Containing Artificial Trans Fats," by exempting certain bakeries from the provisions prohibiting the use of artificial trans fats, under certain terms and conditions.

Thank you very much. The sponsor of this bill is Councilwoman Krajewski, and we call on her for comments. 8 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

Thank you. Good morning, Chairwoman Tasco and members of the Public Health and Human Services Committee. I want to thank you for scheduling this hearing this morning on the bill today. In our Chambers this morning we have a group of bakers from all over the City of Philadelphia who wish to testify in front of your committee and tell their stories and voice their concerns over the trans fat ban. From South Philly to the Far Northeast, these mom-and-pop bakeries have had their recipes handed down to them from generation to generation, and forcing them to change these family heirlooms would be a grave injustice to these Philadelphia businesses. I'm not asking that we overturn the trans fat ban. I'm asking for an exemption for these small business owners that we overlooked. In their business, their 9 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 survival exists on the texture, consistency and, most importantly, the taste of their product. If the taste changes, so does their business. I would like to present to you and the Committee a bundle of petitions with well over 15,000 signatures from Philadelphia residents asking City Council to amend this trans fat bill. These petitions were collected on bakery counters all throughout the City, and this shows just how passionate and dedicated our citizens are when you try to change their traditions. The last time I checked, I don't believe the pound cake, the cannolis, the Jewish apple cake killed anyone. The bullets do. And I think that we should know what our priorities are. Let's start acting like Council people and not like the Surgeon General. I believe that's their job. Thank you. 10 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco. Do you have remarks? COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No. 7

Thank you very much. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Not yet. I'll wait for the taste testing, then I'll have remarks.

The Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos for remarks.

Thank you, Madam Chair. On December 14th of last year, I introduced a bill in City Council that modified Philadelphia's Health Code by prohibiting the use of artificial trans fats in food-service establishments. Artificial trans fats increases the risk of heart disease, stroke and death by increasing bad cholesterol and decreasing good cholesterol. Research on the direct link 11 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 between heart disease and the consumption of artificial trans fats has been well documented, creating a growing national health issue. Heart disease is one of Philadelphia's leading causes of death. Heart attacks and related illnesses burden our hospitals, reduce the productivity of our workplace, distort our insurance rates and the healthcare safety net, and they destroy families. We need to battle heart disease in a sustainable and preventative and more intelligent manner. Philadelphia's government needs to help all of us in that more intelligent fight. Many Philadelphia's food-service establishments have already replaced artificial trans fat with heart-healthy alternatives. These efforts could result in a six percent reduction in coronary heart disease in Philadelphia. The resulting public health impact of such a reduction would 12 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 be significant. Additionally, our Health Department has been actively engaged with my office and food establishments throughout the City in a public education campaign to ensure guidelines of the trans fat ban are clear and the transition to a healthier alternative is seamless. The list of food establishments that support this health initiative continues to grow and we are seeing compliance citywide. It is also important to note many of these establishments have gone trans fat-free voluntarily, many before this ban was put in place. On February 8th of this year, the last time I addressed City Council on this issue, the list of food establishments abiding by the trans fat ban was substantial and included many of our area restaurants and hotel chains and schools, colleges and universities, including Tony Luke's, Pat's 13 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Cheesesteaks, Geno's Cheesesteaks, Night Kitchen Bakery, the Flying Monkey Bakery, Wendy's, Starbucks, Subway, Denny's, Chili's, Ruby Tuesday, KFC, Loews Hotel, Marriott Hotel, Omni Hotel, Temple University, Drexel University, Eastern University, St. Joe's University, School District of Philadelphia. Archdiocesan high schools and its administrative office cafeteria have either eliminated or started to reduce the use of trans fat. The list of food establishments abiding by the trans fats ban continues to grow as the trans fat movement is now beginning to take foot both nationally and internationally. In the United States, major food chains and entertainment facilities are recognizing the public health threat of trans fat and have either banned trans fats already or have set deadlines in the near future to do so. This list includes fast-food giants such as McDonald's, Burger King, 14 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Taco Bell, Arby's, Applebee's, Friday's, Olive Garden and Red Lobster, all have removed trans fats from their menus as well. Entertainment companies such as Walt Disney and Universal Studio Theme Parks have recognized the public health threat of trans fat and stricken them from their menus. JetBlue is now serving trans fat-free foods on its flight. Uno's has removed trans fats from all 225 of its restaurants worldwide, and Canadian companies are also beginning to follow suit as well. The removal of trans fat has grown into a national and international phenomena not only because companies now recognize and privately owned small companies recognize the public health threats of trans fat, but because it has to become economically viable to do so, and companies now see the promotion of this change as an important and successful marketing tool.

One of the most impressive 15 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 examples I have seen of trans fat being banned in the City of Philadelphia is at Citizens Bank Park that has small businesses selling food products at the park. " In addition to reaffirming my belief that banning trans fat in Philadelphia is important, it also made me realize how achievable it is. I was encouraged to see all these small businesses were adhering to this important and life-saving ban on trans fat. I did not propose this bill, and I emphasize, I did not propose this bill to harm any business in Philadelphia, and I, by what I saw of the list, I have tasted already all of your good products. It is a public health education campaign to improve the quality 16 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 of life for the citizens of Philadelphia by protecting them from the harmful effects of trans fats. It is exceptionally important to recognize the elimination of trans fats is not an attack on one business or another, but a step to protect citizens from the harmful effects of trans fats. It is equally as important to recognize that there are viable alternatives to trans fats that taste the same and are not detrimental to your old family recipes or detrimental to the health of those who consume it. The City's law banning trans fats was approved unanimously by all members of City Council and signed into law by Mayor Street on February 15th of this year, and it should not be changed. It is the law. Amending this bill will create a situation where citizens and visitors alike will be consuming harmful trans fats at some food establishments while being protected from them at 17 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 others. Philadelphia is now nationally recognized as a trans fat-free city, and this amendment would not only create confusion, it will be deceptive and it would expose unknowing individuals through the harmful effects of trans fats. Nevertheless, I respect the opinions of all those here today representing small bakeries and other eateries that are in favor of amending the trans fat law. City Council unanimously approved this bill with the best interest of Philadelphia citizens and visitors in mind. This Committee should reject this amendment with those same interests in mind. Banning trans fats is the law in Philadelphia. We should not expose some of our citizens to the harmful effect of trans fats for the simple fact that a few food establishments claim it alters the taste of their good food. There are alternative ingredients that taste the 18 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 same but are not harmful, and I strongly encourage this Committee to protect the citizens of Philadelphia and the visitors to our great city. This legislation would not only attract customers to Philadelphia restaurants and dining facilities, it would also help us save lives. Thank you, Madam Chair, for letting me give these remarks.

Thank you very much. Are there any other comments from members of the Committee? The Chair recognizes Councilman O'Neill.

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. I first would like to thank Joan Krajewski for introducing this. I don't think there's anything wrong with improving a bill, correcting a mistake. If anything, when I look at the language in this bill and it says trans fats are 19 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 okay if they come in wrappers from huge bakeries that don't even have to be in Philadelphia, they can be anywhere outside this City, it seems to me that we got it reversed. If we were going to ban them, we should ban them from coming into the City from outside in wrappers, not from our local mom-and-pop bakeries that we all grew up with and are just a part of the fabric of the City. I'm embarrassed to say that I voted for this. I wish I had full knowledge of it, and I know I'm responsible for that. But there's a fine line between educating the public and becoming the food police and is a slippery slope when you tell somebody something is better for them than something else as opposed to telling them what they can eat and what they can't eat. And I don't know where you draw the line all the way down, but I think it's a very clear line that Councilwoman Krajewski has drawn in her legislation 20 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 that separates out these Philadelphia institutions that aren't killing anybody and, in fact, people are getting some of their best enjoyment in life out of those small institutions. I grew up in Port Richmond near Stock's and the Aramingo Diner, the dining cars in my district, and it's an integral part of the fabric of my district. It is right across the street from Councilwoman Krajewski, since she probably goes there more than I do, I'll admit that. And we're going to hear great testimony, and I just hope we can keep open-minded that, yes, we made a statement on trans fats. I think we should be banning them from coming in wrappers and also remember that trans fats -- a product is considered trans fat-free even if it has trans fats in it, as long as it's less than half a gram per serving. And when I read that -- and that's a federal government rule. You can eat an awful lot of a trans fat 21 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 product and get an awful lot of trans fat and still think you're eating fat free. So this isn't an area that is overly clear to most people, and I think we can accomplish something here and serve a public purpose if we give the public as much information as we can. Right now the public is going to get a whole lot of information that each of these panels representing different establishments have some trans fats in their product, and people are going to make a decision that will only affect them that they want to eat something that has some trans fats in it because it's so unique and so particular to their neighborhood, their favorite bakery, that they want to continue. And we can tell them you shouldn't do it too often. We can tell them a whole lot of things, but I think to tell them you can't do it at all or you have to eat an inferior product is going to place that company in a position where they may be 22 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 out of business is wrong. All those places that have gone trans fat-free, it's a marketing tool, and it's good if you can do it. I know that everybody coming here today, if they thought they could do a trans fat-free product and have it taste as good would be doing it, and they put a big sign outside "trans fat-free," because everybody wants to do more business, but they also don't want to lose business. So I'm going to -- I have a commitment in my district in about an hour. If I'm not here for the final vote, I would like to be registered as voting aye for this, what I think is a very important bill and amendment to the existing law. And I don't think it does that much to harm the overall purpose of the original one. I would like to strengthen it so that products coming in from outside of state in wrappers would be banned. Thank you.

23 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

Thank you very much. Any other comments? Councilwoman Brown.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I do have a couple of questions posed to the sponsor of the trans fat bill for clarifications for our own purposes here. In the existing law, Councilman Ramos, is there a penalty or fine attached to the law for those who violate and actually serve trans fat products?

In the process of public hearings, we talked about this and that's why the bill has no 19 penalties in place, because we wanted to be able to charge -- which is the responsibility of the executive branch of the government, to go and enforce this. And there was a September 1st for eateries that came into effect September 1st of this year. Bakeries don't come 24 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 into effect until September 1st of next year. But we wanted to give the Health Department time to do their public education campaign, to present to them alternative oils out there that would not alter the taste of the good pound cake of Stock's and some of the other ones here that I have indulged in over the years, but that I purposely did not include in the bill fines. Nevertheless, the Health Department has within its guidelines, they have fines in the guidelines, but they have been asked not to enforce those fines until we make sure that this public education campaign -- and I believe the Health Department will speak today and they will tell us about a massive mailing that they've done to I don't know how many eateries in the City. I hope they covered all of them. And follow-up that they will be doing in getting this public education campaign on the good reasons why we have banned trans fats in the City 25 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 of Philadelphia.

Thank you, Council colleague. I'll then look forward to the Health Department's testimony. Thank you.

Thank you very much. I want to take the Chair prerogative and go back to the labeling bill just for clarification. I had promised Councilwoman Brown that I would not vote for the amendment, but I would vote for the bill to come out of the Committee. So I'd like the record to show that I support the bill to come out of the Committee so that she could further work on it with the various industry reps and the advocates. So my vote will reflect the promise that I made to Councilwoman Brown.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

And my 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 vote will reflect the promise I made to her, which I would vote for the amendments but not vote it out of Committee today. Thank you.

So I want the record to be very clear on what we're doing up here, because we don't know.

And for those industry reps that are here, I've made it clear to a number of you directly and to my colleagues that there remains work to be done on the bill. I am more than willing to work cooperatively to come up with language that speaks exactly to what was expressed very clearly yesterday, one size does not fit all and flexibility and how we, as Councilman Brian O'Neill put it very accurately, how we not be a food police, but we seek to educate the public. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much. 27 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Also, there are other people here to testify on this bill that we're going to hear now on the trans fat issue, 070511. If you have not registered as a witness, please come over to the table and sign your name so that we will call on you at the appropriate time.

Madam Chair, I just wanted to let the people in here know to distinguish the different bills, because I think it's a little confusing.

Right.

That we're not referring to the amendment to the trans fat bill. We're referring to yesterday's bill.

Yesterday's bill had to do with labeling of menus.

But I just wanted our audience to know that.

Right. The first bill we heard earlier, I went 28 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 back to that, and I thought I'd better do it before it got too far along in the testimony. Okay. Now, if you have not signed up, please see Derek Green over to my left. We call on Dr. Kenneth Smith, Health Department.

Good morning, Chairwoman Tasco and members of the Committee on Public Health and Human Services. I am Dr. Kenneth Smith, Director of the Division of Chronic Disease Prevention in the Philadelphia Department of Public Health. Thank you for the opportunity to present testimony today on Bill 070511, which would exempt certain bakeries from the prohibition of artificial trans fats in food-service establishments. The recently enacted prohibition of artificial trans fats in food establishments was a proportionate response to the urgent need to eliminate 29 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 a harmful substance from the food supply, and the Department of Public Health applauds this Council and the Mayor in enacting the legislation. The Department is pleased to report that we have begun implementation of an educational phase of the ban in the food-service establishments we inspect. Trans fatty acid, typically referred to as trans fats, are formed when liquid vegetable and plant oils undergo a chemical process called partial hydrogenation in which hydrogen is added to make the oils more solid. We need to be clear that the current ban on artificial trans fats does not address the issue of obesity. But nonetheless, artificial trans fats are known to be harmful to human health, by increasing our levels of low-density lipoproteins, the bad cholesterol, while decreasing our levels of high-density lipoproteins, the good cholesterol. Eliminating artificial trans fats from prepared foods is a 30 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 necessary public health intervention in addressing cardiovascular disease, still the number one killer of Americans today. Given our knowledge of the dangers to human health posed by artificial trans fats, it is incumbent on us as a public health agency to take the steps that are necessary to facilitate reduction, to the extent possible, of this harmful chemical from the foods we consume. Baked goods are by far the largest source of artificial trans fats in our diets, and as such, the Department cannot support the proposed legislation before us today that would exempt bakeries in Philadelphia from the prohibition against artificial trans fats. The current four-month education period before actual enforcement of the ban begins is providing time for all food-service establishments, including bakeries, to investigate alternative recipes that can 31 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 be free of artificial trans fat, but continue to have good taste. Moreover, we in Philadelphia have the luxury of learning from the experience of others who have passed bans on trans fats, such as New York City and the nation of Denmark. Indeed, many packaged cookies and cakes currently available to us are now free of artificial trans fats as a result of the FDA labeling requirement that has been in effect for more than one year. When trans fats labeling requirements took effect for these packaged foods, most companies chose to eliminate the artificial trans fats. Some national and international restaurants and coffee shop chains have followed suit, largely eliminating artificial trans fats from all of the foods they serve. While we support local bakeries and their desire to serve desserts from traditional recipes, it is important to 32 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 understand that partially hydrogenated oils, which are trans fats, were not used in baked goods in the earliest days. Partially hydrogenated oils were invented in the early 1900s and did not become widely used until after the 1920s. Thus, many of the older bakeries have always used traditional ingredients from natural sources in their recipes instead of processed artificial partially hydrogenated oils. Two Philadelphia bakeries I am aware of use real butter instead of artificial trans fats, which is probably why it's so tasty, and others are making the transition to trans fat-free baking in preparation for the ban on artificial trans fats.

Currently, a number of trans fat-free products are on the market for producing baked goods, including trans fat-free baking shortenings. Many of these products are comparable in price and quality to products containing artificial trans fats. There are many 33 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 trans fat-free lower saturated fat alternatives on the market such as palm and canola blends. As we implement the current ban on trans fats in food establishments, the Department is planning a second mailing to all affected establishments, an information packet that contains a full array of trans fat-free products and suppliers to assist in the transition. We expect the mailing to be complete during the month of October. Bakers looking for an additional source of information on substitute shortenings and oils can also call the American Institute of Baking for advice on this issue. Given the number of alternatives and the four-month education period before the enforcement begins on the current ban, we believe that the prohibition of trans fat in all food-service establishments is a necessary intervention to improve the health of those who consume 34 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Philadelphia's fine foods. Thank you for the opportunity to present testimony today on this important issue. I'm now available to answer your questions.

Thank you very much. Are there any questions from members of the Committee? Councilman Ramos.

Thank you, Doctor, for coming here and testifying before this very important bill. Did you get any response from your mailing?

I have with me here my colleague, Izzat Melhem, who is the Acting Director of Environmental Health Services, and he can answer those questions about the mailings.

Good morning. We have received --

Would you identify yourself for the record, please. 35 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

I'm sorry. My name is Izzat Melhem. I'm the Acting Director of Environmental Health Services with the Health Department. We have received responses to the mailing and it was generally people inquiring about alternatives, specifics of the ordinance that weren't originally clear, and also some translational issues within the Spanish-speaking community and the Asian community.

I'm sorry. Can you repeat that last part again? I apologize.

Yes. It's okay. We have received responses to the mailing. Some were just on the specifics of the ordinance. People weren't clear on the implementation dates as far as what's implemented by what date, being that September 1st was for the deep-fried oils and spreads and September of next year was for the ingredients in baked goods. We just gave some clarification 36 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 on that. And also there were some -- mostly it was translational issues in the Spanish-speaking community and the Asian community.

And have you been able to respond to those requests?

We have. We actually have resources online that we could direct people to, and we are working to set up those resources for the residents on the City website.

Thank you. Madam Chair, if I may?

Sure.

Doctor, are you going to be sending inspectors out to the bakeries at this time, particularly the bakeries that are concerned about the impact on their business and their recipes? Are you going to be sending them out there to visit our bakeries that are concerned and provide to them these alternatives, proof that the taste won't change? 37 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 I know you did the mailing, but a lot of times people want to see a person visit their establishment and say -- New York testified yesterday on nutrition labeling. They testified here. I believe there's someone here from New York to testify on this bill, where they have a pretty aggressive -- not aggressive in the imposing way, but they have people out there, inspectors out there, visiting these establishments. Are you planning to do that in this phase of your public education?

Yes, Councilman. Well, we're doing several things. First of all, we will be developing an educational mailing that includes a list of alternatives with their prices, the quality, the different brands and the distributors so that people can actually decide for themselves what's best for them. In addition, we're working with New York City's Health Department to see 38 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 what we can do to piggyback on what they've been doing. They have developed a trans fat hotline in multiple languages available to bakeries and chefs to try to find ways of developing menus for their baked goods that taste just as good. And it's important to remember that when we think about flavor, a lot of it is mostly in the head, and I'll give you an example. A couple years back McDonald's announced that it would switch oils in their fries. They would go from a frying oil that contained artificial trans fats to a new trans fat-free alternative. And after they announced the change, everyone started complaining about how the taste had changed and that they were blander and that they were somehow different, but, unfortunately, McDonald's had neglected to tell them that they actually hadn't changed their recipe, hadn't switched their oils. And so that's a perfect example of the fact that a lot of these things are in the 39 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 mind. There are plenty of different alternatives, trans fat-free alternatives, to shortening that other countries, bakeries in Denmark which -- and the entire nation of Denmark has switched to trans fat-free baking goods, and nobody complains about the switch. In fact, they made the whole process of switching to trans fat-free alternatives a marketing device. They had bake-offs and contests. And what we're going to be doing -- what we're working on right now, the Health Department, is working with the Mayor's Office of Health and Fitness to search for funding to support a larger information and education campaign, not just for the general public but also to provide technical assistance to food establishments to help them find ways of changing their oils and maintaining their flavor. So, yes, that's exactly what we 40 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 plan to do.

Thank you, sir.

Councilwoman Brown.

Good morning.

Good morning.

The sponsor of the bill, Councilman Ramos, spoke to a timeline that's articulated in the bill with regards to what becomes effective. In September '08 do you plan to institute penalties for those who don't honor the legislation? What is your plan?

Well, as far as enforcement goes, our plan is to include this as a violation. It would be a line item on the inspection report, just as any Health Code violation would be noted during the course of a routine inspection. This would be noted just as well. 41 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

And so violation equals what? Simply a written citation or does it equal a financial penalty, or what?

Well, simply noting it wouldn't imply that there was a penalty. It would be a violation, but it would be something that we would give them time to correct. If it came to enforcement as far as court action, if a business were taken to court for other more critical violations, it would be up to the courts at the time as how they would impose fees. But we wouldn't take a business to court solely on this issue.

Okay. Thank you for your testimony.

Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the opportunity to be heard at this hearing. Good morning, gentlemen.

Good morning. 42 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

Good morning. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Doctor, in your testimony you acknowledge that there are two bakeries within the City of Philadelphia that use real butter. I've been reading for, I guess, ten years or longer that butter is not really healthy. Could you speak to that? I mean and compare that to trans fats? Everyone says stay away from butter, it's not good for your cholesterol and use less butter.

Okay. Let me be clear. Artificial trans fats is a dangerous chemical and it should be out of our food supply, and that goes for margarine and trans fatty partially hydrogenated oils and so forth. Butter, on the other hand, while it's high in saturated fat, but it's natural. It doesn't contain artificial trans fats. And so if I had a choice between, say, a donut that was cooked in artificial trans fats versus a donut that was cooked in something else, I would choose the one 43 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 that was cooked with something else, because we know for a fact that artificial trans fats are dangerous. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But are you suggesting then that butter is healthy?

No, I'm not suggesting that butter is healthy. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's not as unhealthy as trans fats?

Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But it is unhealthy.

We have a choice between something that is known to be dangerous and a choice between something that may not necessarily be as dangerous if you don't eat too much of it. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay. So if I eat one cannoli a week as compared to eating six pieces of buttered toast a week -- and I don't want to be too technical here, but I'm trying to make a comparison where -- 44 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

I think that that's a false comparison. It's a false dichotomy, because let me just repeat this. Artificial trans fats is a dangerous chemical. It's sort of like -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Would you agree that cigarettes is a dangerous chemical?

Yes, I do. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We haven't banned cigarettes yet.

No, we haven't. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Not only in the City, in the country or the world. We have places where you can't smoke. And I was one of the authors of the smoking ban, as you know, but we also allow people to continue to smoke, although we know it's dangerous and can kill. It's a --

Yes. And I spend a lot of my time as Director of Chronic Disease Prevention trying to get people to quit smoking and remain smoke-free, 45 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 because it's bad for you. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: People can make the choice.

And people can certainly make the choice not to eat a donut with butter in it. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So aside from the bakeries, what other food establishments are using trans fats in the production or the cooking method in their products in the City of Philadelphia?

I'm sorry? COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Do other food establishments aside from bakeries use trans fats in the process of cooking their products?

Yeah. Those that have been -- I mean, other food-service establishments have been using artificial trans fats in their frying oils for sauteing and so forth, and the prohibition against trans fats would prohibit those sorts of oils. It 46 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 prohibited it as of September. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: '08.

No; 1st of '07.

We've actually given a grace period for food-service establishments to replace their current stocks, inventories of those oils, in preparation for completely going trans fat-free for their cooking oils. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: What, if any, enforcement would be in place for those companies who will be, as Councilman O'Neill spoke to earlier, be distributing their products in the City of Philadelphia that are made with trans fats but do not produce them in the City of Philadelphia? Will there be any enforcement with that?

I'm not sure I understand. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, if Sara Lee products come from out of the State of Pennsylvania and some of their products, if not all of them, are 47 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 prepared with trans fats, will there be a ban on the distribution and sale of their product in the City of Philadelphia?

Well, I'm not sure that Sara Lee would come under this -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm just saying there are companies out there, as was testified by Councilman O'Neill --

Entenmann's, I believe, is one. Tastykake locally as well. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But I'm using non-Philadelphia companies to sell products in our City.

Are you talking about packaged foods? COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yes, packaged foods.

Packaged foods are not really involved in this particular -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, I'm asking what, if any, enforcement would be imposed on companies whose products are sold within the City of Philadelphia that 48 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 are produced with trans fats? Will there be any ban on their sales going forward in the City of Philadelphia?

If they come here and cook it in a Philadelphia restaurant -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's the point. If their product is produced outside of the City of Philadelphia, distributed and sold in the City, will the ban apply to them as well?

Well, I'm not sure what your point is in this question, because this particular -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The point is --

-- bill applies to prepared foods. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- if -- and I understand the intent of this bill. I don't want Councilman Ramos to think I'm attacking what he originally set out to do, and I think we do have an obligation as elected officials to do 49 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 what we can to protect the health and welfare of our citizens. I'm not attacking the bill. What it has to do with is if we're going to say to our local bakeries that you cannot use trans fats in the production of your products but a company who produces a similar product or something that may not be similar but a pastry product and they're not within the City of Philadelphia limits but they can sell it here, I think that's a disadvantage for the folks who are operating businesses in the City of Philadelphia.

I understand your point. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You're saying it's not healthy, but --

Sir -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Let me finish.

Okay. Please. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But if your factory is in Cleveland, you can 50 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 ship in cannolis that are produced with trans fats, but Isgro's and Termini's, just to mention a few, cannot sell their cannolis because they're produced with trans fats and they happen to be in the City of Philadelphia. So Isgro and Termini maybe should move. (Applause.)

May I please respond? COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: What we're saying maybe is that those companies, those local bakeries, may want to get up and leave Philadelphia, produce their product in New Jersey and have them shipped in, because there will be no 18 enforcement.

Sir, with all due respect --

Can I interject? Maybe I can answer your question, Councilman, partially, and that is that the FDA for a number of years since early 2000 had been doing research 51 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 along the lines of the effects of trans fat in our food products, and in January of last year, the FDA started to enforce a requirement on all packaged goods that they disclose, among other ingredients, the amount of trans fats in their packages. That's why today you will -- and I see more and more of this in our supermarkets, that people look now. And there's been stuff that's been done in the City Council over the years before I came here on -- the late David Cohen did a number of measures here on disclosing to the public what is it that they're eating. So you will see in packaged goods five milligrams of trans fats -- five grams of trans fat. Most of them are going into and purposely putting zero trans fat, because they want the people that are purchasing packaged food goods to know that their product is trans fat-free. Short of that, Councilman, there is federal stuff that is going on 52 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 and I suspect that it will continue. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, and I was kind of going in that direction. I mean, I'm not a member of this Committee, but if some sort of a notification were prominently displayed that our products contain trans fats, not unlike a pack of cigarettes in which the Surgeon General says smoking cigarettes is unhealthy, or whatever it says, can cause cancer. People make a decision whether they still want to buy and smoke cigarettes. There is some sort of a notification. And as the Committee -- I'm just offering that as a possible additional amendment or some language may be added to the amendment that may require proper notification.

I have to just say this, because I'm not an M.D. doctor, I'm a Ph.D. doctor, and I'm actually an economist, and one of the things that in some of my consulting work, one of the things that I point to businesses is to 53 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 think not just about the supply side, which is what businesses often think about, their costs and so forth, but to think about the demand side and what's going to be happening in the future. And, quite frankly, you may think that you're helping small bakeries by having an exemption, but if everyone else is going to be -- is looking at their products and saying, Wow, that's a dangerous chemical, five years from now, then that's time that they could have been spending working on their products. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, I think that there will be a number of witnesses that will come up and testify about they have been experimenting, if you will, with variations to trans fats over the last several months, and I think they're going to demonstrate for this panel and others what the result of that is, and in most cases, they find that the taste isn't there. And I appreciate your comments, but I think, again, proper 54 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 notification might be a sufficient way to deal with this issue, and people will make that choice. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Dr. Smith, I just want to point out that the original bill excludes products that are in a manufacturer's original sealed package. So I can't speak for him, but what he's saying is that someone could send stuff into the City with trans fats and so they're not included in this bill. Any other questions or comments from members? Councilman O'Neill.

I think this is a very important point, when we're talking about education and education and education. I mean, if I go into Joan's office because she tells me she's got some Stock's pound cake in there tomorrow before Council and some 55 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 good coffee, which has happened from time to time, or vice versa, I know I'm not going to eat the whole pound cake. I don't eat it every day, but it is a treat, and many of these other institutions here have the same thing. My mother used to send me to Richmond Street to Szypula's Bakery. And she didn't call it Szypula's Bakery; she said the Polish bakery, not Richmond Bakery, the one -- they have the chruscikis that we want. These are engrained institutions. We didn't have chruscikis every day, but it was a real celebration when we could. If we're allowing Entenmann's, Tastykake's and other products in packages, I think I understood -- and I have no quarrel with this -- that there's already language on that wrapper that tells you that trans fats are in there. I don't think anybody very much reads it, but I do know you can get that 56 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 information. It seems to me that a good compromise here that doesn't kill the original intent of Councilman Ramos and yet allows Councilwoman Krajewski and those of us that are very sympathetic to the people about to testify would be some form -- and doesn't make them have to worry about a violation because there's some other violation, but it gets into the educational aspect, where they would put up a sign and say, We want you to know, however they want to phrase it or everybody agrees they should phrase it, that trans fats are used in our -- and at some point, if they find a recipe that they're happy with, trans fats have been removed. Again, maybe it will help them sell more; maybe it wouldn't. But it seems like we're punishing certain people because they make things fresh in the City in the neighborhoods and, while not intending to, we're rewarding companies, 57 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 whether they be in the City or outside, that package their items with notification that -- I can tell you these 1.25's that I get at the dollar store are not going to be able to read. You need a big magnifying grass to read this, and even then, you'll agree that trans fat-free means you can have up to a half a gram per serving, and that's with the federal guidelines. So there's trans fats in there. And some people are eating boxes of this stuff. I'm not talking about cakes that are here today. I'm talking about boxes of chips and other things that they think the biggest thing on the label now isn't the name of the company, it's trans fat-free. Somebody is eating a whole package of the potato chips or the other chips and they're eating a lot of trans fats, thinking they're being healthy. It seems to me there is a compromise here, and I hope the Chair 58 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 maybe can facilitate it, with getting the prohibition out of our local bakeries and replacing it with some public education. It seems to me that there should be a way that we don't have to criminalize Stock's pound cake or the different bakeries' cannolis or the chruscikis or the Danish pastry, the Jewish apple cake, and we can have something that everybody can agree. That's really what we're doing with Entenmann's and others, is we're looking at the educational aspect of their wrapper. You want to ruin a cannoli, put it in one of those sanitized wrappers. I mean, it will go in a very short period of time. You won't want to eat it. But you can give people the information when they're buying it. Thank you.

Thank you very much. (Applause.)

When the inspectors go out to inspect the 59 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 restaurants to see if they are complying with the trans fat ban, what is the process for inspection?

Well, they would check the records of each establishment as required, check package labeling for oils to see if anything on site complies with the current ordinance, and it will also be part of interview with the management and the staff.

Who are the inspectors? Who is doing the inspection?

The Environmental Health sanitarians.

Are these the same sanitarians that we've been trying to hire?

Correct.

Have we hired enough sanitarians to take care of the trans fats and take care of the labeling and take care of the hot water and take care of the roaches and the 60 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 rats?

And the smoking ban.

And the smoking ban. How many do we have?

Well, we currently have sanitarians out in the field, in 9 addition to five supervisors, and there 10 are three that do plan reviews that kind 11 of do it part time. They work in the 12 office part time doing plans and they're 13 out in the field part time, but they do 14 contribute. 15 We can certainly always use 16 additional, but we do the best with what 17 we have and we try to meet our goals with 18 the staff that we do have. 19

What would 20 be an adequate staff for the Health 21 Department to cover all of the 22 inspections that we require, not just for 23 these ordinances but other ordinances 24 that have been passed that require them to make inspections? 61 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

Being that this would be part of a routine inspection, it would be additional time at each inspection, and also the menu labeling that was addressed yesterday. I think we had addressed the additional staff for that. But ideally we are now moving into a risk-based inspection protocol where our goal is to do inspections based on the risk category of each restaurant. So I think our initial estimates were we would -- in order to comply with that and also the other requirements that have been placed on us, we would essentially need to double our staff, which is what the initial estimates were that we had presented to Council last year.

Thank you very much for your testimony. Any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)

Thank you.

Madam Chair, I just 62 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 wanted to mention, I believe that Gwen Foster has some trans fat-free baked goods for you on the table from the Mayor's Office of Health and Fitness.

Thank you very much. Now we'll call on our second panel. Thank you very much. We call on Nancy Morozin, Vince Termini, Mark Stock and Denise Geise, Denise from Denise's Bakery.

Good morning, members of City Council.

Just a moment, please. When you finish your testimony, we would ask you to move to a side chair and let the other people come up to the table.

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you. Please identify yourself and proceed with your testimony.

Good morning, 63 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 members of City Council. My name is Nancy Morozin and I'm co-owner of The Dining Car. We're a family-owned and operated diner and bakery servicing Northeast Philadelphia since 1961. We have been open hours a day since we 8 first opened our doors and hope to 9 continue to do so for many more years to 10 come. 11 The Dining Car and its 12 customers respectfully request that City 13 Council amend the Section 6-307 ordinance 14 of The Philadelphia Code pertaining to 15 the trans fat ban. Banning the use of 16 products containing trans fats in 17 Philadelphia will hurt Philadelphia-based 18 bakeries. It will especially hurt the 19 border businesses, those of us who 20 operate on the fringes of the City 21 limits. It is also unfair to let 22 supermarkets and other stores sell items 23 with trans fat just because they come 24 pre-packaged. As of today, we still do not 64 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 know a good substitute for the shortening we use. Business is driven by what customers want, and the customers do not want this trans fat ban. They want the products they have always gotten and they want them to taste as they always have. For those of us operating within blocks of the neighboring suburbs, like our smoking guests, our dessert guests will simply take their business elsewhere. The items we are discussing are ones that are eaten in small quantities and occasionally. For example, at The Dining Car the things we use shortening in that contains trans fats are pie dough, icing and pound cake. This is just a small percentage of over 100 items that a guest can choose from. No one is sitting down with the ten-inch pound cake and consuming the whole thing at one sitting, and if they are, they have issues far greater than trans fat. Recently, the national news 65 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 broadcasts a study that proves stress was as bad for the heart as smoking. Are we next going to ban stress? People are tired of bans, tired of people told what and when they can do or eat something, especially something like this, which is such a small part of their diet. No ordinance limited to Philadelphia will accomplish anything more than hurting Philadelphia-based vendors by driving business outside the City limits. It will simply be seen as a nuisance and inconvenience as people work their way around the ban. In closing, I would like to say that none of us here today seek an unfair advantage by amending Section 6-307. We are simply trying to keep the playing field level so we can continue serving our guests what they want. If we don't, a non-Philadelphia-based business will. Thank you for this opportunity to voice our concerns.

Thank you 66 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 very much for your testimony.

You're welcome.

Sir?

I'm Vince Termini, T-E-R-M-I-N-I, Termini Brothers Bakery. We've been in the business for 86 years. My father started the business in 1921 when he came from Sicily with his original recipes. These recipes that we're still following now which we tried to change because of the trans fat did not work. We tried every way possible. We used trans fat in our frying shortening. When the cannolis came out of the fryer, they were saturated with oil and they didn't look the color that they should be. It isn't that we didn't try. We tried. We are willing to put a sign in all our stores that we use trans fats, because interviewing my customers that come in through that door, when I tell them what happened here at City Council, they said it doesn't make any difference 67 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 to them. Trans fats or no trans fats, they would like a nice cannoli or a nice piece of cake. They don't eat a ton of it, but they eat some of it. I don't understand another factor. If you want us to replace trans fats with butter, what does butter do to the cholesterol and the heart and everything? I don't understand that at all. To replace trans fats with other shortenings that are harmful to the body, I really don't understand how that works. In closing, I would hope that you amend this to eliminate the small bakeries like us in the City so we could make the right product and leave it at the discretion of the customer. Freedom of choice. Thank you.

Thank you very much. (Applause.)

I took two cakes, one was with trans fat, one was without. 68 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 You could see the difference. You don't have to taste it. You could just look at it and see. We tried every conceivable recipe and we just couldn't get it right. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Good morning, City Council. My name is Frank Stock and I am the fourth-generation baker from Stock's Bakery, Product Manager. We are aware of the healthy alternatives and the newly developed trans fat-free shortening. However, we have field-tested alternatives and found them to be inconsistent and do not possess the same quality and function as what we have used in our formulas for four generations. We are not in the research and development business, but have found our success and consistency in quality. Our signature product is pound cake. The formula has been passed down 69 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 through generations of family bakers. To ask our current fifth-generation bakers to alter our recipe seems too unreal to grasp. There is no guarantee that the TFA-free shortenings are any safer than our current ingredients. Furthermore, TFA-free shortenings are not researched long enough to call them safe alternatives. They say that it is trans fat-free, but what it does not say is that it is double the saturated fat. How is that a safe alternative? TFA-free shortenings do not formulate the same taste and textured cake as all of our customers have come to expect. Our store policy is that of which guarantees taste, texture and quality or your money back. TFA-free shortenings would surely have a remarkable impact on our fifth-generation bakery and the loyal employees that have put decades of hard work into producing the famous Stock's pound cake. 70 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 We believe in the education of proper nutrition and healthy choices. Sweets and candies should be eaten in moderation. In addition, they should be enjoyed as a treat or in celebration of a special event. We at Stock's are appreciative of our customers and proud to have been part of their so many special celebrations. More importantly, we feel shocked by the choice of City Council to include bakeries on their list of businesses to regulate. In conclusion, we feel that four lifetimes of dedication, commitment have been infringed upon. In a city where the Constitution was signed and freedom of choice was a staple for an entire nation, we have been stripped of our right to choose. Not taking into consideration the welfare of the City's long-time establishments will ensure the degradation of these businesses and the reputation of the great City of 71 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Philadelphia. Thank you.

Thank you very much for your testimony. I appreciate it. Could you allow the other witnesses to come forward and then we'll ask questions at the end of the testimony. MS. STOCK-DeCAROLIS: Good morning, Councilmembers. My name is Christine Stock-DeCarolis. I'm the youngest of the fourth generation at Stock's Bakery. Since I'm the store manager, I guess I'm here to speak on behalf of our customers and employees, and to be quite frank, they don't want us to change. Recently, I was taking a 50th anniversary cake for a couple when the woman -- I noticed the woman was staring at me. Without having to ask, she said to me, 50 years ago I was standing here as a soon-to-be bride ordering my wedding 72 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 cake, and as impossible as it may seem, the woman who took my order looked a lot like you. And then I knew why she was staring. Actually, I said to her, I look like her. See, it was my grandmother. We spoke briefly about duplicating her wedding cake and we were able to accommodate her, but before she left, she said to me, I am so excited to know that I will have that same cake that I had on my wedding day. Please don't change. We'll be back for our 60th. This is just one of many stories that have been shared with me by our customers, and there doesn't seem to be an end to them. Since this all began, there has been such an outpouring of support, both verbal and written, from our customers. It's been quite amazing. In fact, we are in awe. Imagine being a part of every celebration that a family has had for 50 or 60 years. Now multiply that by a hundred. That's what our customer base is. There's even a Stock's 73 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Bakery Fan Club that's been started on the Internet on Facebook. Wow. As I said before, we're in awe. We don't ever want to have to disappoint our amazing customers. Each one of us here has spoken about generations. We even have the fifth generation represented today by my niece, Sara, who has decided to enter the Restaurant School to continue the tradition of baking. But there are generations that are not with us today. They are the generation of employees, fathers and sons, mothers and daughters, three brothers, two sets of sisters. We even have had every sibling from four different families that have worked for us at various times. Talk about your generations? Our customers come to us in generations, too. We proudly display in our store a photo that was sent to us by a bride of her wedding cake. Now, what's truly remarkable about that photo is that on 74 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 either side of her wedding cake in the picture are framed photos of her mother's and her grandmother's wedding cakes. Each was done by a previous generation of Stock's bakers. So when our customers come into our store day after day and ask, You're not going to change your cake, are you, or We don't want you to change, or What will we do without our Stock's cake, I have to ask you, what will we do without our customers, because they will surely find somewhere else. Please allow us the opportunity to have our say, for it seems we're really fighting for our very existence. Thank you.

Thank you very much. (Applause.)

Would you identify yourself for the record, please.

I'm Denise Geise, Denise's Bakery. 75 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Unlike my predecessors, I don't have one, two, three or four generations before me. I am the first generation of my bakery. I might be one of the bakeries that was referenced as using butter in our products. We do use butter in our products, but we also have products that require trans fat to keep up with the quality that we've established for our business. Our business was established for several reasons. One, to give the community a quality business, to provide people who could not be employed by other employers and to bring back something to the community. We are located in the very, very heart of the North Philadelphia area of the City where there are very few quality businesses that people can take pride in. To make a point, we pride ourselves on the product that we provide. Some of them require trans fat and some of them don't. We do not have a lot of 76 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 generations before us and we will not have generations after us. When I die, our business will probably die with me. But in the meantime, we are committed to making sure that our neighborhood and our customers receive the best quality product that we can provide to them. We provide a homestyle product, the kind grandmom used to make. A lot of our customers will tell us, I don't have to bake anymore, I can come here and buy my product. So I support everything that the other colleagues have said. I'd like to say, too, that what I hear is that we're likened to the McDonald's and the Burger Kings and so forth. Well, making a cake is not the same as frying french fries. (Applause.)

Thank you very much. I'd like to say because Denise is so well known in our community of 77 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 North Philadelphia, Germantown, West Oak Lane, we've tried to get her to West Oak Lane on Ogontz Avenue for so long. And you can commemorate the fact you don't have any generations, you can give your father some grandchildren. But we all go there for our products, too, as well as some of the other bakeries that have testified, too. Yes, Councilman.

I just wanted the record to reflect that all the bakeries that have testified thus far -- and I see a few others coming up, but I have this to say to The Dining Car, to Termini's and to Stock's and to Denise, that I have patronized all four of your establishments at least twice. And some of them -- Denise, because Denise makes some great cakes and has had a very special place in my heart, because she has her establishment at the old Connie Mack Stadium and I went to school right across the street at Dobbins. So it's a 78 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 very special place, as well as Termini. Many times I've gone up 8th Street and the Reading Terminal this year. Stock's, the same way and the Polish bakery on Richmond Street. My Monsignor Tomichek will not, Joanie knows, will not let a holiday go by unless he stops by there, picks me up and we go down there and buy the goodies. So your bakeries that I know are some of the best in this City and I've had the pleasure, and I want to continue to have the pleasure to patronize you as well. And because even though I introduced this ban, I know that you're very responsible Philadelphians, you have a great product and I know you'll do the right thing. Whether this is change or not, you'll do the right thing for your customers and maintain your customer base. Thank you, ma'am.

And what you're saying is you will vote to 79 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 amend it, right?

What I'm saying is that I like the cakes.

He just reminded me, Termini's, I know the name of the company, but I go there all the time in the Reading Terminal to get my pastry. Delicious. Now let's call on the third panel. Dr. Michael Jacobson, Laura Stanley and Sandy Sherman. Thank you. Good morning. Thank you for coming in to testify.

Thank you very much, Councilwoman. My name is Michael Jacobson. I'm the Executive Director of the Center for Science in the Public Interest, a non-profit health advocacy organization based in Washington, DC. I greatly appreciate the opportunity to speak at today's hearing. I don't think I need to dwell on the harmfulness of trans fats, so I'll only remind you that professors at the 80 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Harvard School of Public Health estimate that trans fat has been causing roughly 50,000 fatal heart attacks annually, including several hundred in Philadelphia. Because artificial trans fat on a gram-for-gram basis is the most harmful fat in the food supply, any substitution, even butter, is a healthier choice. The Center for Science in the Public Interest has long been concerned about trans fat. We formally petitioned the Food and Drug Administration to require trans fat labeling of packaged foods in 1994. The FDA's 2003 labeling regulation went into effect in 2006, spurring many companies to begin using healthier oils. Entenmann's, for instance, was one of the large bakery companies that made the switch. In 2004, a year after labeling was required, the CSPI petitioned the FDA to require restaurants to disclose their use of trans fat, but the FDA did not go 81 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 along with that. And in the same year, we petitioned the FDA to revoke the "generally recognized as safe" status of partially hydrogenated oil, the source of artificial trans fat, as a way of getting trans fat out of the food supply entirely. For the past several years, we have pressed restaurants to switch to healthier oils, and we sued KFC and Burger King to get rid of trans fat or to disclose its presence to consumers. Those and numerous other companies, big and small, have begun or completed the process of switching to healthier oils. For instance, Wendy's, Ruby Tuesday, Taco Bell and Dunkin' Donuts are or will shortly be largely trans free. Starbucks, which contracts with regional bakeries, is getting rid of trans fat from all of its baked goods throughout North America by the end of this year. It's not just biggies. Arnie's Bakery in Grand Rapids, Michigan and the 82 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Sweet Chef Southern Style Bakery in Harlem got rid of trans fat years ago. Up in Maine the Governor's Bakery says its foods taste better without trans fat. Can't Philadelphia bakeries do the same? Many bakeries have always used traditional natural ingredients instead of the artificial partially hydrogenated oils from factories, and you'll hear today from several Philadelphia restaurants that are able to use butter instead of partially hydrogenated oil. CSPI has worked with numerous city and county councils and state legislators to develop measures to phase out trans fat from restaurants, bakeries, cafeterias and other food-service operations. This Committee and the entire Philadelphia City Council deserve tremendous credit for adopting one of the first citywide phase-outs of trans fats in restaurants. New York City was actually the first and helped lay the groundwork for Philadelphia. Then 83 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Philadelphia helped lay the groundwork for subsequent phase-outs. Nassau County, New York; Montgomery County, Maryland; King County, Seattle, Washington; and Brookline, Massachusetts are all phasing out trans fat from their restaurants and bakeries. Because of the City Council's public health actions, Philadelphians are beginning to enjoy healthier diets that taste the same without needing to make any effort on their own. Importantly, the switch to trans fat has been invisible, and now we're seeing it at McDonald's. We heard one example earlier when people complained when McDonald's didn't switch to a different oil. Now McDonald's is switching and we don't hear any complaints whatsoever. McDonald's has switched in several thousand restaurants.

However, if Councilmember Krajewski's amendment passes, certain bakeries would be allowed to continue 84 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 using this artery-clogging ingredient even though ample alternatives that will not change the taste of the foods are available. This proposal would significantly weaken the law that you passed several months ago. I strongly urge you to vote against the bill. Just as toy makers should not be allowed to market toys covered with lead paint and gas stations should not sell gas with lead and hardware stores should not sell pesticides with DDT, bakers should not be allowed to market foods made with partially hydrogenated oils. Eliminating trans fat from most baked goods is not rocket science, and the law even provides baked goods an extra year to be in compliance with the rules. As you'll hear today in just a moment from New York City, it's perfectly feasible to largely eliminate trans fat from baked goods and still have the same or even better taste and shelf life. Frankly, it's quite amazing to see the 85 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 bakeries seeking the special interest legislation almost a full year before the law takes effect and before they've done enough testing or sought assistance in developing recipes using the growing number of healthier oils. As you consider this legislation, it's worth noting that partially hydrogenated oil is not some kind of artisanal ingredient passed down through the ages in secret family recipes. In fact, it's an artificial ingredient that was first developed less than a hundred years ago and widely used only about for 50 years or so. You can be sure that bakeries in Sicily were not using partially hydrogenated oil in 1921. The recipe we heard surely has been changed. William Penn and Benjamin Franklin were not walking these streets eating biscuits and cookies made with partially hydrogenated oil. Back then, Philadelphia bakeries were marketing baked goods that did not contain this 86 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 nasty ingredient. If we're going to be nostalgic about classic recipes, we should be nostalgic for the foods that come from farms, not factories. So, once again, I applaud the City Council for having passed its ground-breaking public health law and urge you not to open up a special loophole to exempt baked goods. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Madam Chair.

Yes. Councilman O'Neill.

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. As I stated earlier, I have to leave for my district for a previously scheduled meeting and announced that I would be voting yes on this bill and this amendment, but I sincerely hope that these two fine 87 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Councilmembers, Councilman Ramos and Councilwoman Krajewski, can work out a compromise that satisfies both goals. Thank you.

Thank you. Yes?

Good morning. My name is Laura Stanley and I run the New York City Trans Fat Help Center, which is based at New York City College of Technology, which is part of City University of New York. There's a lot I could tell you today about the work that we do, and if you have questions, please feel free to ask, but for the moment, I will restrict my comments to some work we did this summer at the Trans Fat Help Center testing new zero gram trans fat shortenings that are just now emerging on the market. So this was really kind of cutting-edge research, and I am not aware of any other group that has done this so far. 88 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 The reason we conducted this research is that my office, which is -- I should backtrack and say we're based at New York City College of Technology because there is a large culinary school there, and I work with the baking faculty there, as well as very closely with American Institute of Baking, which is a partner in the Trans Fat Help Center project. And one of the many things we do is, we offer educational support to small food-service operators in New York, including small and mid-sized bakeries of the kind that have come here today to testify. So what we decided was called for this summer was some kind of across-the-board testing of the products that are currently available, and I say that because we are looking at new shortenings emerging on the market every month. So what we tested this summer was what was available this summer. And just to -- what I'll do is, 89 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 I'll read you an excerpt from a memo that I created after we did this work. This was testing that was done both at New York City College of Technology and American Institute of Baking. Tests were conducted with zero gram trans fat shortenings and bakers' margarines from four producers: ACH, brand names were BBS-Z, Alpine Z; Bunge, which would have been Vream NH, Vreamay, Croissant NH, Bakers Ideal NH; Loders-Croklan, brand name Sans Trans 39; and Cargill, brand name TransEnd All-Purpose. The Cargill is the only non-palm oil shortening we had available. Testers at City Tech and AIB made a wide variety of standard bakery products: baking powder biscuits; yellow layer cake; sugar snap cookies; chocolate chip cookies, both crisp and soft; croissants; butter creams, two kinds of butter cream; pound cake, two kinds of pound cake; pie crust; and yeast-raised sweet rolls. We baked with controls, 90 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 partially hydrogenated vegetable oil shortening in all cases, butter as well in others, in every trial. Our results were conclusive in most cases and largely positive. For sweet items, the zero gram trans fat shortenings performed very nearly as well, as well, or better than partially hydrogenated vegetable oil controls. Shelf-life tests were extremely encouraging. We noticed no difference in deterioration rate between controlled baked goods and items baked with zero gram trans fat shortening. For the most part, shortenings performed very similarly to one another when used for the application they're intended for. However, occasional failures; for instance, Vreamay NH makes a disappointing biscuit and TransEnd All-Purpose is unworkable in pie crust. These suggest that New York City bakers will need to experiment in order to find the shortenings appropriate for the 91 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 recipes. I should add that for these baking tests, we did no reformulation. We simply dropped in the new shortening in place of the old shortening. We were very pleasantly surprised. We had been talking all along about the need for reformulation and giving out advice to New York City bakers about reformulation, different proportions, different methods, all this kind of thing. It simply has not come up, not yet anyway.

I can't say with complete confidence that other issues will not emerge down the line, but for this test that we ran, we had these very encouraging results. I should also add that we're doing some case studies in New York City with a couple of small bakeries. One is a family-owned fourth-generation Italian bakery. Another one is a mid-sized Chinese bakery. Both of them are currently in the process of phasing out trans fat with very successful results. 92 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 They're giving themselves plenty of time. The Chinese bakery so far is just dropping out the old margarine and putting in the new with no differences. The Italian has been doing it more slowly and carefully, but so far, customers are not noticing any difference with the items that have been made trans fat-free. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Miss?

Good morning, Chairwoman Tasco and members of the Committee on Public Health and Human Services. Thank you for the opportunity to testify here today. As everybody else here, I applaud your leadership in working together to combat diet-related disease and obesity in Philadelphia and to host these hearings on trans fat. My name is Sandy Sherman and I'm the Director of Nutrition Education at The Food Trust, a 93 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 not-for-profit organization based here in Philadelphia that works to ensure that all people have access to the information and the nutritious foods they need to live healthy lives. I'm here today to support eliminating trans fats from restaurants and bakeries in Philadelphia. While I appreciate the challenges many small businesses may face in removing trans fats from their recipes, our health is too high of a price to pay for weakening City Council's limit on this dangerous fat. I learned about the harmful effects of trans fats as a graduate student in the early 1970s. I have been astonished that it's taken 35 years to develop public policies in support of what I learned so long ago. As everybody else has said, trans fats have harmful effects on your cholesterol, on your LDL and on your HDL, and they do contribute to heart disease, 94 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 as all the research has shown. As a consumer, I've stopped buying baked goods with trans fats. I no longer buy at bakeries and restaurants that continue to use this fat. Heart disease runs in my family and I am going to avoid these problems if I can. It's not easy to know where to buy trans fats. As an educator I help people learn to read labels and to select foods that support good health and prevent disease. While reading labels or posted information in restaurants and bakeries is an excellent start, most people feel overwhelmed by big words and they just throw their hands up in frustration. I support labeling and education, but it really does not go far enough. Improving the nutritional health of an individual or of a community such as Philadelphia requires, first of all, awareness that healthy eating makes a difference, knowledge and skills to 95 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 make the healthy choices, and changing the environment. Individual behavior change does not result from just changing the environment any more than the environment is the result of individual change. People need information and at a change together to lead a healthy life. One does not go far enough without the other. As everybody else here has testified, Philadelphians need to reduce their trans fats and we need to eliminate it from the bakeries. We need a public information campaign for both consumers and for food establishments. The Food Trust is eager to partner with the City Department of Health to help carry this out, and I am sure we could seek support from local foundations to help support this effort. As many of the businesses have said, our businesses need technical assistance and support to help them remove trans fats from their recipes. As 96 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 we're hearing from some of the local bakeries today that do not use trans fats, we need to share their ideas and skills with businesses that are still using this fat. If the public is educated on the importance of eliminating trans fat and businesses receive the assistance they need to make the transition, we will have a strong public health policy in place. Our City Health Department already focuses on protecting our food from food-borne illnesses. I would suggest that the Department, as they testified earlier, should also protect us from harmful artificial additives such as trans fats. If the health concerns associated with trans fats were still being tested, I would understand why some people might want to hold off on the ban. We have known that trans fat makes us sick for decades.

It's time to enact legislation that protects our public 97 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 health and supports our businesses. Thank you for your time, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

Thank you very much. Are there any questions? Councilman Goode.

Actually, I don't have any questions. I need to be excused from the hearing to tend to other Council business. If I'm not able to return, I'd like to be recorded as voting in favor of the bill. Thank you.

Thank you. I have just a couple of questions. If this trans fat is so dangerous -- and I voted for Councilman Ramos's bill -- but why hasn't the FDA outlawed it?

Well, this Food and Drug Administration is part of an anti-regulatory republican Bush Administration that is just against 98 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 regulations. It went so far as to require labeling of packaged foods. It didn't require labeling at restaurants. But if you're looking for actions to protect the public's health, do not look to the Food and Drug Administration or the rest of the Bush Administration for leadership. That's why New York City, Philadelphia, Seattle and other jurisdictions are taking the matter into their own hands.

The other question I have is, what was used before the '20s when trans fat came into being? What was used?

Primarily butter and lard.

Now, we had the discussion about butter. What does that do? I mean --

Can I put it in context and try to maybe --

Yes. Kind of tell me the difference between the 99 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 two.

Trans fat, or partially hydrogenated oil, the typical one, is the most harmful fat or oil that can be used. Give that a rating of 100 in terms of harmfulness. I would put butter at around 70 maybe and canola oil maybe at ten. So anything is an improvement over partially hydrogenated oil, for frying companies can switch to canola oil or soy oil or something and get a huge benefit. If companies switch to butter or palm oil or fat-free Crisco, the trans fat-free Crisco, we're getting a benefit, but it isn't as large.

I can't remember Councilman O'Neill's exact comment about the allowance of one point something --

Up to half a gram.

Half a gram. So how many grams do you get in a cannoli, which you might eat once a year? 100 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

Well, as looking as Tastykake baked goods where they list the amount on the label, it was two to four grams per serving. Getting below a half a gram -- and if it's below a half a gram, it's probably 0.3 grams -- it's a tremendous improvement. In Canada, the limit is 0.2 grams, not 0.5 grams to be considered zero. But under half a gram is a whole lot better than some of the products that local bakeries are producing.

These are neighborhood bakeries where you might order a cake for a wedding or you may order a cake for a birthday. You're not going in there every day to get a box of cookies. I mean, the --

Right. The more you eat, the worse it is. One toy with lead paint may not cause much of a mental problem for kids. The more the kid uses it, the worse it is. And the same thing. And when there's substitutes, as we've 101 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 heard from New York City, why not use the safe ingredients? And those companies can then brag that their cake or cannoli or whatever is made without trans fat. I mean, we clearly are moving in the trans fat-free direction, and in five or ten years, because of customs, because of a cultural shift, the availability of new products and laws, trans fat will be history, and the faster bakeries get on this train, the faster they will be protecting their customers' health.

That's all I have. Thank you very much. Any other questions or comments? (No response.)

Thank you very much for your testimony. We now call on Gus Isgro, Glenn Haegele and Roz Bratt. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon, 102 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 City Council. My name is Gus Sarno. People often call me Gus Isgro. It's my mother's maiden name.

Isgro. I'm sorry.

That's okay. I own and operate Isgro Pastries located at 1009 Christian Street, the same location since 1904. Councilwoman Tasco asked a question, and if I may before I read my testimony, you asked what did they use in the '20s. We were in business a long time in the '20s. We pasturized our own milk. We made our own butter. We made our own Ricotta. We even milled our own flour. Back then, they did use lard and butter. We also used it. But back then, like all the corner stores, people came to us one day to buy one item, like they would buy their bread at one place and their meat at another place. They bought it, they ate it, it was done. There was no storage factor. Butter and lard get 103 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 rancid. That's the difference in using trans fats today. Just so I wanted to present that before it got too far away.

So the trans fats were used because they preserved the item longer?

There's no question it helps preserve the product. And today the business that we do, not that it's colossal, we're not big business, but we do need that stability in our products. I don't know of any other shortenings out there that give us the stability of trans fats. If they're out there, bring them forward, because our suppliers are dropping the ball on this. So if you'll allow me to read my testimony, maybe I can clear this up a little bit more. When I first heard Philadelphia was going trans fat-free, I didn't give it much thought. I assumed I could purchase the necessary ingredients to 104 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 duplicate our award-winning baked goods. But I was grossly mistaken. In early September of '07, I received a letter from the Philadelphia Department of Public Health stating that I was to be trans fat-free by January 1st of '08 and completely trans fat-free by September 1st of '08. As soon as I received this letter, I called my top three suppliers and asked them what they had in trans fat-free shortenings. One supplier's response was, We have nothing trans fat-free. The other supplier's response was they're getting information on it. And the third supplier I asked said they did have a trans fat-free and a reduced trans fat shortening. I purchased that at the time. He also commented to me that bakers are not very happy with this product, they're having a hard time using it. My signature product is cannoli. This delicate fried pastry shell is the backbone of my business. 105 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 The recipe remained unchanged since 1904. My customers line up for two to three hours on Christmas, Easter and Thanksgiving just to buy my cannoli, cakes and cookies. The recipes have withstood the test of time and have never been compromised. I have a responsibility not only to my loyal customers but to my family heritage. I don't want to step backwards after 103 years of uncompromised quality. I tried making our cannoli with the trans fat-free shortening that was available. It was a complete disaster. I have samples up there. If you can test them later on, you can see the difference in the quality. They were pale in color. It didn't have the delicate combination of flakiness and crispness that our shell has become famous for, and it left an unpleasant oily film in my mouth that lasted for quite some time. Now, if that's not bad enough, 106 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 we need to store the cannoli shell for up to six weeks in air-tight barrels to meet our demands for Christmas. We have used this method of storage for years in the past and the cannoli shells remained perfectly fresh and crisp. The test batches we have made and stored so far indicate very poor shelf life, and the shell gets worse when stored for any length of time. Most of the no trans fat shortening on the market today are made with palm oil. They remove the hydrogenation from the vegetable shortening to make it trans fat-free. Then palm oil is then added to restabilize it. We're asked not to use -- I'm sorry. Palm oil, as you know, is also bad for you. Twenty years ago we were asked as the consumer not to use palm oil, because it was high in saturated fats like lard and butter. Over the past month, I started to research shortening. I spoke to one 107 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 of the top tech support men in the shortening business. I met with him a week ago today, October 3rd, at my bakery. He said they were probably several years away from perfecting the shortening we, the small independent baker, can use to duplicate our recipes. The specs they are using today are designed around the needs and demands of big businesses, like Dunkin' Donuts. They don't tend to little bakeries like us. We don't give shortening manufacturers enough business. I asked if he would come with me today to testify in front of you. His response was if he did, he could potentially lose his job. I understood that.

Our small family bakery is not part of the normal consumer buying profile. Our customers are not confused when they come to my bakery. They know exactly what they want. They have the utmost confidence in my baked goods. 108 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 We are a small specialty bakery with a clientele, for the most part, that have very discrete tastes. We don't offer donuts or highly recognizable pastries and cookies. We offer specialty items, like baba, cannoli, pasta chutta, cassada, sfogliatella, torrone, almond macaroon, fruit-filled Italian cookies. Items like this are not made for the masses. How many of the pastries and cookies I just mentioned do you recognize? Our clients come into our bakery once in a while for a treat, a birthday, an anniversary, a special occasion. Eating a piece of my pastry every three or four months, in my opinion, does not constitute a health hazard. Ask yourself this question: When was the last time you had a cannoli? We are not McDonald's or Dunkin' Donuts or Hostess, Tastykake or Entenmann's. We're none of these big businesses. We're just a small family 109 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 business. They have a responsibility to society, I agree with that. People have made these products part of the staple diet. Some people eat this food almost every day. To make matters worse, as long as the package and the product is pre-packaged, they are exempt from this law. They have research and development divisions. They can go trans fat-free if they choose to do so. It wouldn't be that inconvenient for them. If I have to go through the expense of having an independent laboratory test our hundreds of recipes, it could potentially put me out of business. I called the FDA. I spoke with them yesterday. I just wanted to find out where I could have my product tested. She didn't know. She gave me a website I can go to, and it would be $140 to test one of my products. I have to test that maybe half a dozen times to get it down to where I would need to be. At 140 each time I test it, times that by hundreds of 110 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 recipes. I'm not a chemist. I'm a baker. I want to bake my product. I don't want to test my product over and over and over again. It could ruin us. We are just a small row home bakery who still bake in the basement like my grandfather did 103 years ago. Please try and understand the serious negative impact this no trans fat law will have on us. I pray my son, fourth generation Isgro, will be able to continue our heritage. Thank you. )

Thank you very much for your testimony. Councilman Kenney.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My last cannoli was Sunday. And I think it was one of yours. I'm pretty sure it was.

Thank you.

Madam 111 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Chair, we did a similar situation on the smoking bill. We exempted cigar stores and cigar operations, specialty cigar stores from the smoking ban. It seems to me listening to this testimony, this seems to fall into the same kind of category of these specialty shops that's not a Dunkin' Donuts where you're in there every -- well, I'm not in there every day, but people are in there every day. I mean, it just seems to me to fall into that same niche. So I would be inclined to support Councilwoman Krajewski's bill 16 based on that fact. I mean, we're not ripping the guts out of the whole thing. We are simply trying to tweak it to allow people to continue to make a living the way they've been over the years. And I do, again, for the record equate it with our exemption of cigar sale stores, cigar stores so people can smoke indoors there or cigar bars, which was a similar situation. 112 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 So thank you.

Thank you. All right. The next person, please. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon now. We're just about there. My name is Glenn Haegele. I'm from Haegele's Bakery. I'm the third generation at the bakery there. I'd just like to say that the people that have testified before me I am very humbled by. We're in business for 77 years and I thought that was a long time. I'm listening to the other people here and they're very similar to we are, and I really felt like we stood alone as a corner store bakery, the same location for all 77 years. My father, who is sitting on the right of me here in the first seat, was born upstairs 75 years ago as his father worked downstairs. My grandmother carried him right up to that day as she tended store. We're a very small humble bakery. We do not have a huge clientele. 113 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 People come from outside of the City to get to us, though. Over the many years they have come into the bakery. We have customers who have been customers for 76 years, just shy of our full amount of years, and I'd say up until a few years ago, we had customers that were signed in at our 75th anniversary as 75-year customers, and it was really a wonderful thing to see that. My wife and mother are sitting next to my father, and my two sons are sitting next to them. They're here today because they are the future of the bakery. If we're continued to be allowed to bake the way we're baking, some day they will enjoy being in a family business. (Applause.)

My grandfather handed down to my father a very healthy business. He had to deal with a lot of problems, a depression, World War II, sugar shortages. But all of these had an 114 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 ending. They always had some day that that would be over and they would continue to be able to work the way they did earlier. My father handed to me a very successful business. Along with my mom and dad and my wife and my children, we continue to run the business today and it's successful as being a very small business. We're exactly as we stood. I use the same rolling pin and the same bench that my grandfather used in 1930. We have the oldest refrigerator, the Gem refrigerator, who is a Philadelphia company, has ever made. We have the very first one. We're still using it today. Our oven is from 1938. We do things exactly the way we always did. We don't change things. I would very much like to be able to hand a healthy business to my sons some day, one that I know is going to prosper for them and will give them a 115 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 nice life. And we're not rich people. We're not people that have a lot of money and a lot of wealth from our work, but we are rich in tradition and we're rich in family. We're very proud of what we have accomplished over the years. I'm very, very proud of my grandparents and my parents, and I hope that my children will be able to have that also. I've talked to shortening manufacturers when this came out and I asked them to appear, much like the gentleman on my left did, along with us today, because they told me, much like they told him, that your product will not be the same using our new products, they will not respond the same, you're going to have to experiment with them, you're going to have to change things. The texture will not be the same, the color will not be the same, the taste will not be the same. And they had nothing for us. I asked if our suppliers would 116 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 send someone who has been feeding us information. None of our suppliers would send someone out here. Simply because they were afraid to be put on the spot, and especially for such small businesses, when they have large businesses that they're looking out for and they can sell their goods. I'd say earlier in the spring I put a sign in our store of items that we have that are trans fat-free, just because they are naturally a trans fat-free item. I sat the sign in the store for two weeks and there was no 16 comment as being something that people wanted to buy, that they were looking forward to having. I thought there would be some kind of an interest and I really looked at it as being a marketing tool for us, that if we had something other bakeries didn't have. But that wasn't the interest. The interest was in our normal products that the people would get on a regular basis. 117 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 I did bring a couple things with me. " And their answer is no. " Now, this is from the Food and Drug Administration. " Their answer is no. " All of our shortening manufacturers when they have taken the vegetable oil out of our shortening, they have substituted with palm oil. So they made a direct change from vegetable oil to palm oil. It clearly states here to avoid palm oil. So what I'm seeing is that this isn't a solution. This is just transferring a problem from one item onto another. I think that going back to my grandfather's recipes, I have recipes with butter and with lard. If you take away my ability to use vegetable oil shortenings, then my alternative would be to make my sweet dough with lard, and 119 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 that's not good. My customers -- I won't use palm oil. Palm oil is considered to be bad for you since the '80s, and lard is even considered worse. So I really don't see a way out. My father, again, he's active in the business.

He's been probably one of the best known elderly still working bakers in the City today, and many of the manufacturers come to him with questions. They come to him with samples for him to try things. And he has a much better knowledge on these items than anybody that I would know, and he said that using butter in replacement of hydrogenated vegetable oil products, we can't make our product. It will not have the texture. It will not rise the same. So we pretty much are stuck with using what we have.

Thank you very much for your testimony.

Hello. My name is Roz Bratt. I have Homemade Goodies by Roz at 510 South 5th Street. 120 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 I feel like the baby here. I've only been in business ten years, and when I heard about the trans fat-free, I called my supplier and I said, What do you have? Well, we're still working on it. I said, Let me know when you get something. I did get something, and I thought, Oh, this was going to solve the problem. I was going to be able to do what the City is asking me. My employees made my banana bread, which I use shortening, vegetable shortening, which is hydrated, and I said, What did you do to our bread? We wholesale it. I sell it retail. I can't sell this. My customers are not going to want to buy it. It tasted so-so. Then we used it in our butter cream icing, and it was terrible. It tasted like a crayon. That is what my 121 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 employee told me. I'm not selling crayons in my bake shop. I'm a specialty shop. Everything that the other bakeries have talked about reflects me. I am a one-man band other than my employees. I don't have the generations like these other wonderful bakeries do. And I am behind them. I would be more than glad to change if our purveyors would give us the right ingredients so we would have the same consistency as what we're using now. I thank you for this opportunity. I do have two samples up there for you to see and taste.

Thank you very much. Councilman Kenney.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I was just curious as to whether or not there's anyone else in the audience that's going to testify against the bill. 122 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

We have Panel who is going to -- 4

Panel 5 5 has -- I'm sorry. Are they against the bill?

Yes. Yes.

All right. Because I was wondering whether we could kind of speed this up and get these people back to work.

Thank you all for your testimony. We don't have any questions. And thank you for taking time off to come. We'll have Panel 5 come now. Rebecca Michaels, Rachel Griehs, Amy Beth Edelman. Good afternoon and thank you for your patience. Would you please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. Thank you.

My name is Rachel Griehs. I am a registered dietician and have a Master's degree in clinical 123 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 nutrition from New York University. I am employed at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania where I am a clinical dietician specialist for the Bariatric Surgery Program. I am also an adjunct lecturer at the University of Pennsylvania where I teach a course called Nutrition Sciences and Applications. Four hundred thousand deaths per year in the United States are related to poor diet and health. This is up from 300,000 in 1992. At present, tobacco use is the leading cause of death at 435,000. In 1992, death from tobacco use was 400,000. At this rate, poor diet and health will soon be the number one reason for deaths in the United States. The 2005 Dietary Guidelines say that we should limit the intake of fats and oils high in saturated or trans fats by choosing foods low in these types of fats. The recommendation is to have as little trans fat in the diet as possible. 124 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Saturated fat should be no more than ten percent of total calories. Trans fats have been shown to have similar effects on the body as saturated fats, which is an increase in LDL cholesterol, the bad cholesterol. However, trans fats have also been known to lower the good cholesterol, HDL cholesterol. HDL cholesterol acts like a sponge and soaks up the bad cholesterol and takes it to the liver where they are eliminated. Trans fats also increase the ability for platelets to clump and form blood clots that will block the artery. This can lead to a heart attack or stroke. A 1993 Harvard study supports the hypothesis from Welsh researchers in 1991 that partially hydrogenated oils contribute to a risk of having a heart attack. The study also estimated that by replacing two percent of the energy from trans fat, this would decrease the risk of coronary heart disease by one-third. 125 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 A research study in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2006 showed that by eliminating trans fat from the U.S. food supply, this could prevent between six to percent of heart attack 7 or related deaths each year, which is 8 currently at 1.2 million per year. For 9 this reason, no one should be able to use 10 trans fats. 11 Thank you. 12

Thank you 13 very much for your testimony. 14 Next? 15

My name is Amy 16 Edelman. I own the Night Kitchen Bakery 17 in Chestnut Hill. The bakery has been 18 there for 24 years, but I bought it seven 19 years ago. When I first bought the bakery, the couple hundred recipes that were given to me, many of them had margarine as well as butter in their recipes, and I chose to switch from all the recipes, minus one, which is pie dough. All the other recipes I switched 126 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 immediately from margarine to butter, and the reason that I did that is, I kind of knew some of the controversy about margarine at the time and that it was possibly very bad for your health, which has now been proven, but also because I don't like the taste of margarine. I find it has like a slick kind of greasy aftertaste, and butter is just a tastier ingredient. We use all-natural ingredients at the bakery, and it's a lot more expensive to use all-natural ingredients, but I found that in all the recipes that I switched out the margarine for butter, actually I had no comments from my customers. I don't know that any of them knew that there was any difference, but it was a difference to me. And I knew that it was going to cost me a lot of money to do that. A case of margarine is about $15 to $20 versus a case of butter which is about $60 to $70, and that does change. And I totally understand why 127 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 bakeries would be very upset about having to incur that cost if they have to switch their margarine to butter. It's a very expensive thing to have to do. But I chose to absorb part of that cost and to pass some of the cost on to my customers through increasing prices. And I know a lot of business owners are also very wary of that. They're afraid that they're going to lose customers if they increase prices. I can tell you from my experience over the past seven years that every time I increase prices, I worry, and I almost never get comments. And my products are not cheap. They're pretty expensive. I'm probably one of the most expensive bakeries in the City. And I never -- my business has increased over the past seven years every single year ten to 20 percent. I have not lost any business because of the increase in prices. Also one of the reasons that I decided to eliminate the margarine is 128 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 because it's not a natural ingredient and I'm also a strong supporter of artisan cooking. Ancient recipes, recipes -- when I went to the Culinary Institute of America, and recipes that I gathered working in five-star hotels over the years and restaurants did not have margarine and shortening in them. Ancient recipes use butter because margarine has only been around for five to six decades; whereas, of course, butter and other ingredients like that have been around for centuries. But I really believe that the long-term cost of the consumption of trans fats, we all pay for that in increased healthcare, increase in our health insurance. So I really believe that it will be eliminated from the diet eventually. It's just a matter of time. And people need to get on board and really do it now, because it's just going to be a lot more expensive to do it later. 129 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

Thank you very much. It doesn't seem like we have any better choice, whether it's butter or trans fat. It's all bad for you, I guess.

Good afternoon. I'm Rebecca Michaels and I own the Flying Monkey Patisserie at Reading Terminal Market. No one ever said a cupcake was good for you, but why make it worse with the use of cheap artificial ingredients? When I was in pastry training at the French Culinary Institute, we never once used trans fats in any of our recipes, and in the six years that I have been baking professionally, vegetable shortening and margarine have never had a home on my kitchen shelf. It is absolutely possible to altogether avoid using these products in commercial food settings. And as far as taste is concerned, there is simply no substitute 130 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 for butter. I guarantee you that a cupcake made with butter will win hands down in a blind taste test over a cupcake made with fake fat. In baking, you get what you pay for, and in my opinion, if you make your product with cheap artificial ingredients, the end result will be a cheap poor-tasting product. The argument that certain recipes won't work without the use of trans fat is frankly shortsighted and doesn't speak to the creativity of the bakers on both sides of this argument. Traditional baking was designed to use products from nature. And bakeries that use artificial products to make substandard goods are harming their customers to save a few pennies. And to put it quite bluntly, quality baking is simply an expensive business. At Flying Monkey we have always used butter. None of our recipes have ever included trans fat, and I hope that 131 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 the samples I've brought from our bakery speak for themselves in terms of quality and taste, which is why I supported the initial passage of the trans fat ban by the Council and oppose the exemption of bakery products from that law. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Any questions from members of the panel? (No response.)

Thank you very much for your testimony. We now have George Gringos, Julia Mielcarz and Connie Jesiolowski.

Madam Chair, I just wanted to thank Connie from Szypula's and Julia and Maureen from Julia Cafe and Hercules from the Aramingo Diner. They've been here since 9 o'clock this morning. So I just wanted to thank them for waiting around like this. They're to be applauded, believe me. 132 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

Thank you very much for your testimony and thank you for your patience. (Applause.)

Madam Chairwoman, members of the Committee, my name is Hercules Gringos and my family has owned and operated the Aramingo Diner in Port Richmond since 1957. I'm here to offer testimony today in support of the amendment that Councilwoman Krajewski has forwarded, which will exempt small bakeries from the so-called trans fat ban. Since 1957, the Aramingo Diner has been serving the community, offering hearty home-cooked meals and pastries at affordable prices. We recently celebrated our 50th anniversary and grand reopening after a fire devastated the diner closing our doors for three months. The rebuilding effort was difficult, but we were excited to open our doors again to serve our long-time loyal customers. 133 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Since the passage of the trans fat ban, we have made efforts to replace our products to come into compliance with the law. One area that the ban has had a significantly negative effect is in our bakery. The Aramingo Diner takes pride in its baked goods. We are proud that all of our baking is done on premises and we offer freshly baked goods at reasonable prices. And I just want to say, our customers are neighborhood people. They're union people. They're hard workers. And we think that we do volume and we sell cakes at better prices than you get at supermarkets or at some of the other chains, and I think that's an important point to note, because we're serving working members of the community. We've been experimenting with the new products for our strawberry shortcake, muffins, Danish, pies and other products, and we believe without 134 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 the shortenings that are included in our recipes, our products are just not the same. While we appreciate Council's interest in protecting the health of the residents of the City, we believe that the trans fat ban overreaches and will have a deleterious effect on our baking business. Our baking business, while only a percentage of our overall business, is still integral in our business model. It's difficult enough for a family-operated business to compete with the advertising and research and development dollars of large chains and supermarkets. We believe that we've been able to survive and excel because our products are simply better. As such, we stand here with the other business leaders and ask that Council exempt our bakery and other bakeries from this ban. I also just want to say we employ about 100 people, and I think that -- we've been there a long time, and 135 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 I think that if we were to lose our baking business, that would have a tremendously negative impact on our business overall. So I thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. I think I'm representing the blue-collar bakeries, because having bakeries maybe in specialized areas --

What is your name?

I'm sorry. My name is Connie Jesiolowski from Szypula Bakery located at 3050 Richmond Street in Port Richmond. We're a small bakery. We're struggling to keep our doors open. I'm the owner of Szypula Bakery and I'm upholding a reputation for making traditional Polish baked goods that bring people back to the neighborhood at Christmas and the Easter holidays. We are known for babkas. We have cheese, raisin, fruit, poppy and nut 136 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 rolls, hawa, pound cake and our sourdough rye and pumpernickel breads. We are especially known for our chrusciki, which is what I placed on the table. It's a Polish delicacy that ours is known throughout the tristate area, as well as Virginia, California, Colorado and Hawaii. I bought some for tasting today. Our original recipe has been in my family for many generations from Poland to the United States. We experimented with zero trans fat and diverted from this original recipe. The taste of our chrusciki changed from a subtle sweet flavor, which is what our customers expect, to a bland greasy dough taste with a much shorter shelf life. I noticed a further breakdown of taste after three weeks. Actually, I was surprised with the noticeable difference. Since we use no 22 preservatives in any of our baked goods, this is a major factor for us in both cost and quality by using zero trans fats. 137 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Our costs are constantly going up all the time for bakery ingredients. In fact, one of our chief suppliers recently notified us of an increase of six percent across the board. In order for us to survive at our location, which has been there since the 1930s, we cannot afford the higher costs of zero trans fat change, let alone changing a long-held tradition of our chruscikis' quality and taste. This could possibly lead the way for our customers to purchase chruscikis and our other babkas in the supermarkets where the chrusciki and babkas are not held to Philadelphia laws of trans fat. If this trans fat ban is not changed, Szypula Bakery just may become a memory and not the destination where people go at Easter and Christmas for their authentic Polish baked goods. (Applause.)

Thank you.

Thank you very much. 138 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Good afternoon and thank you for your patience.

Good afternoon. My name is Julia Mielcarz and I am the owner of Julia Bakery and Cafe in Port Richmond. We opened in 2005 and celebrate our second anniversary tomorrow. For years I bake at home. I was born in Poland and came to America 12 years ago. The recipe I brought with me 13 are the same recipe as I use in my cafe. 14 The batter we use here is a different 15 batter we use in Poland. It is much 16 harder. And if we use it, the texture 17 will be different. I try to use all kind 18 of batter here, but any of them didn't 19 taste like a Fleischmann and salted 20 margarine, which is very similar to 21 Polish salt butter. Our most popular 22 product is like a Polish cannoli. We 23 also make cakes, pies and babkas. I ask City Council to allow me to continue to make my recipe and allow 139 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 my customers to decide. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Any questions or comments? (Applause.)

Thank you so much for coming and thank you for your patience. Is there anyone else here to testify on this bill? (No response.)

There being no other witnesses, we will take a three-minute recess. Don't go away. (Short recess.)

All right. We're now in session again. We'd like to go from the public hearing into the public meeting, and the Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos for a proposed amendment.

Thank you, Councilwoman Tasco. 140 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 In today's hearing I think we've learned a lot about the viewpoints on all sides of the Philadelphia law on banning trans fat in the proposed bill by my colleague, Joan Krajewski. During the hearing I heard three establishments state that they would have no problems with disclosure of them being not trans fat-free. I believe those were Termini's, Stock's and Haegele's Bakery. After hearing their testimony saying that they would have no problems, I am willing at this time to go along with the exception of the bakeries with the amendment. I have circulated the amendment to the members of this Committee. It would keep the Bill No. 19 070511 intact as proposed by Councilwoman Krajewski, and in bold letters you will see that the amendment would include this language: "Provided further that any such establishment or location where bakery products containing trans fat are sold, the owner or operator of the 141 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 establishment must post in a clear and conspicuous location and format a sign stating that some or all bakery products offered for sale are not free of trans fat." Madam Chair, I move that the amendment that has been circulated -- have you had time to read the amendments? I move that the amendment as previously described regarding Bill No. 070511 be adopted. (Duly seconded.)

Thank you. It has been moved and seconded that we adopt the amendment provided by Councilman Ramos. All in favor? (Aye.)

No. 21

No. 22

Also, just for the record, Councilman Goode and Councilman O'Neill are not present here and did not have the opportunity to -- 142 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 Madam Chair, Councilmen Goode and O'Neill did not have the opportunity to hear this discussion relative to the amendment and I don't know how they would have voted, so I don't know whether or not we're getting an accurate reflection of the Committee, the Committee's wishes on this without them here. Now, they left their vote voting for the amendment exempting the bakeries, but they did not agree to, as far as I remember, an amendment requiring a sign.

But nevertheless, we're voting on an amendment. So if the amendment is approved, because we do have quorum, we have four people here, that it will be an amendment to the aye vote that they left behind on the original bill.

I mean, Councilwoman Krajewski can speak for herself, but I would suspect that this is not a friendly amendment to her bill. 143 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 It's not as if she's agreeing that this is something she wants.

I'm asking for the Committee who did vote for the amendment that was introduced, that I introduced, exempting the small bakeries. That's it. No other amendment.

Well, we'll have to vote it. If he presents it, we have to vote it up or down, and since there are only two for and two against, the amendment fails.

I understand that you have an amendment before you.

The amendment fails because there are only two for and two against.

What amendment failed?

The sign amendment.

The sign amendment. 144 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511

Okay. Fine.

We don't know yet, but we'll find out shortly. So then we move on to your amendment as presented.

Right; no sign.

Councilman Ramos' amendment fails for lack of a majority vote.

Thank you, Councilwoman.

We need to vote that officially, right?

We did.

We did?

Yes.

I didn't hear that vote being -- I heard one opposition vote to my amendment. And so did you, ma'am?

Yes.

So the 145 10/10/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 070511 record reflects that already?