Committee Hearing, February 13, 2001

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE FY 02 - OPERATING BUDGET - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, PA February 13, 2001 10:30 a.m. - - - Bill No. 010001 - To adopt a Capital Program for the six fiscal years 2002-2007 Bill No. 010002 - To adopt a Fiscal 2002 Capital Budget Bill No. 010005 - Adopting the Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 2002 PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILMAN W. THACHER LONGSTRETH COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 I N D E X WITNESS Joyce Wilkerson, Mayor's Chief of Staff. . 2 Janice Davis, Director of Finance. . . . . 73 Joseph Perrello, Risk Management . . . . . 80 Linda Orfanelli, Deputy Dir. Of Finance 82 Commissioner Nancy Kammerdeiner, Revenue 84 Dominic Cermele, Deputy Finance Director 90 Linda Berkowitz, Financial Oversight . . . 106 Denise Garrett, Chief, Water Revenue . . . 115 Folasade Olanipekun, Treasurer . . . . . . 132 James Roundtree, MBEC. . . . . . . . . . . 153 Louis Applebaum, Procurement Commissioner 230 J. Herkness, Board of Pensions & Retirement 246 M. Bonavitacola " " " " " 255 Vince Jannetti, Sinking Fund Commission 261 Harry Hillock Procurement. . . . . . . . . 347 David Glancy, Board of Revision of Taxes 373 3

This is the Committee of the Whole. I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the title of Bill No. 010005.

Bill No. 010005, an ordinace adopting the Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 2002.

Our first Witness is Joyce Wilkerson, Chief of Staff, Mayor's office.

Good morning, President Verna and members of City Council. I am Joyce Wilkerson, Chief of Staff to Mayor John F. Street. Thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony regarding the Fiscal Year 2002 Operating Budget for the Office of the Mayor. The total amount requested for the Mayor's office from the General Fund for Fiscal Year 2002 is $4,895,889, an increase of $3,713 from Fiscal Year 2001 estimated obligations. Of this total amount, 4,695,889 is for employee compensation and purchases of services, materials and supplies and equipment. The largest portion of this, the Class 100 budget, includes 3,883,682 for seventy positions and represents an 4 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET increase of $3,713 from FY 2001 estimated obligations. All other appropriation classes remain unchanged from the estimated expenditures for FY 2001. The remaining portion of the General Fund totaled 200,000 is for City Scholarships. This amount will continue the existing Mayor's office scholarship program for Philadelphia students who attend classes at area colleges and universities. The grants revenue total request for FY 2002 is 3,492,689, an increase of 865,186 from the FY 2001 estimated obligations. This figure reflects federal and state grants to the Mayor's Commission on Aging. This will enable funding for occupational training for older adults, literacy programs for the community and staff support for the Mayor's Action Center and the Office of Transportation. The Mayor's office has had a very productive year. We established and implemented a new organizational structure and added members to the Mayor's cabinet, including Secretaries of Strategic Planning, Education, External Affairs, Public Safety and Boards and Authorities. The new secretaries have 5 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET allowed the Mayor's office to take a more active role in planning and coordination across City departments and entities, as well as to promote relationships in Harrisburg and Washington, DC. You'll be hearing from the Mayor's Office of Community Services, the Office of Housing and Community Development, and Office of Labor Relations on their Fiscal Year 2002 operating budgets later in these hearings. Thank you for your support. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you. Ms. Wilkerson, you state in your testimony the Mayor's office new organizational structure has enabled the Administration to promote relationships in Harrisburg and Washington. Please explain what the administration is doing in Harrisburg and in Washington.

Over the course of the last year, we've had extensive relationships with Harrisburg, as you know. The City undertook vastly expanded responsibilities with respect to the School District. And during the course of the negotiations, there was extensive conversation that was necessary 6 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET with the Governor's office and also with the other members of the Pennsylvania delegation. I think trying to support that network of relationships has been a substantial new undertaking and the Office of External Affairs, George Burrell, has had a key role in that day-to-day contact virtually with the Governor's office around school issues, school funding issues, contract issues. George has also played a major role in helping to develop the relationship with Harrisburg around issues involving the gas company, for example. We have spent time trying to appoint the governor's office and other people in Harrisburg, including the PUC, with some of the challenges facing PGW, and also have tried to bring Harrisburg up to speed on the relationship between the City and PGW and why it is that the rate relief presents such a challenge, not just for the company, but for the City as well. There are a number of fronts where the City has had to develop a much closer relationship with Harrisburg. It's through the Office of External Affairs that that relationship has really been maintained. 7 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET We also look forward to having a much closer relationship with Washington around a myriad of different issues. That activity will be carried out through the Office of External Affairs.

Thank you. How has the position of Secretary of Strategic Planning been filled?

What the Mayor has done was ask Maxine Griffith, who is the City Planner, to assume both positions. Historically, Philadelphia has had a much larger City Planning Office that, at times, has had the capacity to consider more than simply the fiscal development of the City. The Administration has asked Ms. Griffith to take on planning responsibilities for not just the bricks and mortor growth and management of the City, but also the planning that happens within the departments of the City. She will carry both titles. She will not get any expanded compensation, but will be doing both sets of responsibility.

Is she or her office working on how we're going to be dealing with neighborhoods? Do they have any plans that 8 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET they're looking at?

Part of what the Office of City Planning has done historically is attend to planning across the City. So it has always been involved in working with neighborhoods around community planning issues. What we would like to see as an expanded scope of responsibility for the Office of Planning, so last year proposed transferring additional resources to City Planning so they could hire additional neighborhood planners. The City traditionally has done some planning in low income neighborhoods, but has never really tried to tackle planning in more stable areas of the City that didn't qualify for the CDBG funding. Maxine's office is working on strategies to developing a planning process for areas across the City. That's just one component of neighborhood transformation. You know, it also includes revamping how it is that departments across the City do what it is that they do in the --

At this point in time they do have a plan for the various communities? 9 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET

No, there is no 3 specific plan for the various communities. Different neighborhoods in Philadelphia have over time undertaken planning. Foundations have funded non-profit corporations in the City to assist with planning. If you go to OHCD or if you go to City Planning, there are neighborhoods that, in fact, have fully evolved plans. Different councilpeople have, you know, taken on planning initiatives. So, if you were go to City Planning, they could pull out a plan for Lancaster Avenue. There's a plan for parts of North Philadelphia. These are plans have that have been done over time. There is no block-by-block planning that is happening now out of the office -- out of the City Planning Office as part of neighborhood transformation. What they're working on is developing a planning strategy for neighborhoods across the City. Where the line is going to be drawn -- if you go to some reference material, they'll tell you there's over 247 neighborhoods in Philadelphia. We can't plan for 247 neighborhoods. The City 10 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET Planning people are going to have to approach planning in a different way, are going to have to define areas of the City different from how we've done it traditionally. So the kinds of strategies, kind of planning that City Planning is working on is more of a strategy to -- strategy for how it is that you approach planning, as opposed to a block-by-block kind of planning initiative. There are specific neighborhoods that are planning. It's something that is driven out of the community or by a council member, as opposed to something being driven at this time out of the office of either Neighborhood Transformation or City Planning. You'll hear councilmembers are working on a plan. They're working with City Planning on a plan. That is something that is driven, as I said, by either a community or a counsel member, as opposed to driven by the neighborhood transformation initiative.

the detail designates $218,419 as "other." Explain what these funds are for. -16.

I believe there are a 11 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET number of discrete contracts that we're funding. I believe that's what it is for. For example, we're working with the Delaware Valley Community Reinvestment Fund to analyze the CDBG grant, and it funds that kind of activity.

Thank you. Are there any questions from members of the Committee?

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Thank you, Madam President. Last weekend in the Mayor's address at the Chamber of Commerce luncheon, he introduced the establishment of the "New Economy Develop Alliance" which would be responsible for the coordination of all the City's new economic initiatives in the City and region. Will new funds be needed to support this initiative or will funds come from the commerce department or the managing direct's budget? Also, can you please comment a little on the avenue of entry into this focus. It seems 12 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET that part of the effort might be to focus on corporations for specializing on the cutting edge of medical research and software and/or hardware technology.

The proposal is to create an office. We don't propose having something that simply replicates the structure of PIDC. So, for example, there won't be any back-room operations. There's not going to be an office manager. There's not going be a contract administrator. The proposal is to have all of that done by the structures that already exist within PIDC. There will be some support for staffing. We're looking at taking that out of the economic stimulus grant, but that final decision hasn't been made. We also intend to leverage other resources, you know, and are going to look at some of the traditional, you know, sources of funding that are out there.

Federal funding?

Yeah. The State has been a lead player in funding some of the new economy initiatives. So we're going to have conversations 13 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET with the State about assisting in funding this as well. I think the genesis of the office is not just in trying to build on some of the research and development that's coming out of the universities, but it's also trying to introduce existing businesses or provide support for existing businesss to enable them to compete more strategically. For example, we have a procurement department that is going to expand its bidding so that folk will be able to compete and bid over the Internet. There are also forms that are available. A lot of the information that procurement department makes available is available over the Internet. The vision is to have an office that also enables existing businesses to utilize the technology that supports the new economy so that they can compete more strategically. It's not just going to support cutting-edge businesses. It's also going to help existing businesses compete more effectively in the new age.

As the Mayor 14 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET works with local colleges and universities to retain college graduates to support Philadelphia's emergence into the new economy, have we ever considered or is it possible that our scholarship be expanded to be applied to graduate school costs with the stipulation that students must stay in the area for at least a year, similar to what private corporations do?

We have not actually thought about using the Mayor's scholarship fund in that way. I think we understand that we have to do a much better job keeping the new generation in Philadelphia. I think that we can take a look at how to use the money more strategically. At the same time, though, we don't need to become so enthralled with that population that we don't pay sufficient attention of the kids coming out of high schools in Philadelphia that are going into the community colleges, Temple and the area colleges. Another piece of the puzzle we're looking at is how it is that you attract this population of people. Those strategies aren't fully developed yet. 15 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET

Certainly we would ask that you keep in touch with the President on this. We're always interested in this. It's been one of the President's issues forever. Certainly asking that that be included in any plans for grants.

I will get back to you with information. I know that about eight years ago, the Penn scholarships were a big issue. We've kind of let that drop, really haven't followed up on that. I think that probably is a good area to visit. When we want to do development, frequently the universities will make tuition available. Perhaps we can be more strategic in how it is that we utilize those university commitments to promote the City's economic development strategies.

I sit in on these meetings and kids have to be so outstanding, it's rare you know anybody. They come in from across the world. It's difficult to kind of get a lot of kids from local schools to really get grants. Thank you.

Thank you. It's apparent we're having some problems with our consul. 16 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET I notice Councilman Goode wanted to be recognized.

Good morning, Ms. Wilkerson. I have a few organizational questions. I know that about a year ago during this budget time there was an organizational chart about proposed changes and change of administration. I don't know if there was a new organizational chart available yet in terms of what's been finalized.

I can make one available. I think that some of the ideas we had then have been -- I will forward something to you.

A few questions in that regard. Who does the director of OHCD report to?

In the organizational chart, the director of OHCD reports up through the Commerce Department. That is one of those issues that we're revisiting.

Up through the Commerce Department. Who does the actual director report to, the actual person?

Jim Cuorato.

Who does director 17 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET of labor transformation initiative report to?

Me and the Mayor's office.

Who does the Secretary of Strategic Planning report to?

She's a cabinet member that reports directly to the Mayor.

How do those three offices or functions interface?

I think there are a number of strategies we tried to employ in order to have more effective coordination. In a departure from previous administrations, we actually have a cabinet that does meet. It meets weekly. We also have a steering committee for neighborhood transformation that has representation from the Commerce Department, Housing, Redevelopment Authority, Managing Director's Office, as a way of bringing people together on a periodic basis in order to talk through issues. We also have task forces that have been established around discrete areas that involve membership from a number of different places in government so that we can better coordinate the 18 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET activities. I think you have identified one of the real challenges in trying to change how it is that we tackle some of these problems. We have a structure within the City that does not support, you know, a lot of the work we want to see happening. We end up forming committees and drawing lines that still have indirect reporting relationships.

My concern is that in terms of policy and planning around the issue of community development, who is really in charge? I mean, traditionally people might have looked toward the housing director. People might now look toward labor transformation initiative. People might look toward the Planning Commission, Secretary of Strategic Planning because people looking at what's actually being planned in terms of reuse and redevelopment.

I think we're trying to drive a lot of that through the office of the neighborhood transformation by bringing people together so that what's going on in the operating budget begins to reflect what it is that we want to do in neighborhoods so the housing problems reflect 19 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET what it is that we're funding out of the capital budget. We're bringing people together under the umbrella of neighborhood transformation. I don't think -- we are not there yet, but it's that structure that cuts across government in an effort to better coordinate those resources and policies.

In terms of specific policy and planning questions, who are we directed to? Would it be OHCD, NTI, City Planning?

For over-arching kinds of questions, NTI is the structure we have for raising those issues, discussing them.

NTI emcompasses OHCD and City Planning efforts toward community development at this point?

Yeah. Everybody comes together under NTI.

Thank you.

The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, Ms. Wilkersonb, how are you? 20 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET

Fine, thank you.

I don't know whether to ask you a question or --

You've been forwarned.

Or ask for your phone number. You look very nice this morning. Won't that start something. Ms. Wilkerson is a proud resident of the 4th District and we've known each other for a long time. As a followup to Councilman Goode's question with regard to OHCD, I want to make sure I heard you correctly. The OHCD director reports now to the commerce director?

Part of what we tried to do was create a structure that integrated more closely community and economic develop strategies and proposed having reporting relationships up through the Commerce Department so that people actually came together and discussed these issues. I don't know that it's a structure that's really worked. I think that when we tried to implement it, what we found was that we had a span of responsibility that was extraordinarily broad and are 21 2/13/01 OPERATING BUDGET revisiting how it is that we can more effectively try to make sure we have the kind of coordination of policy. I think the other thing that we found was that we've also got the neighborhood transformation initiative. In a lot of ways, that was a more appropriate vehicle for a lot of the planning that we wanted to see. That, in a lot of ways, has become the vehicle, as opposed to, you know, what it was that was proposed in the organizational structure last year. - - - 22 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET (Stenographic recording now assumed by Josephine Cardillo, Registered Professional Reporter.)

In terms of Neighborhood Transformation and NTI (inaudible).

We anticipate that the OHCD -- you know, that OHCD, those resources will be linked to the kind of planning that comes out of Neighborhood Transformation, you know. And so, you know, there are going to be changes made to, you know, the CDBG Program so that they really do begin to reflect the fact that we're trying to, you know, to develop strategies that address not only the low-income neighborhoods in the City, but other neighborhoods that we're trying to plan, with not just an eye towards the CDBG or federal funding but that we also integrate that with the other dollars that we propose making available, both, you know, through the blight elimination bonds, but also through the City's investment of other General Fund dollars, you know. And so, you know, there's primary responsibility for the CDBG grant that will remain in OHCD. The plans that are developed, we expect, 23 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET will be consistent with the kind of planning that comes out of the transformation process.

One last kind of process question. As a District Councilperson -- and I appreciate you mentioning, for instance, the Lancaster Avenue study that was done not too long ago, there was a West Philadelphia plan from a number of years ago. I mean, how would I work with or through -- for instance, for the moment, we have OHCD, the Office of Neighborhood Transformation, and the City Planning Commission. Who would I go to get certain things done and what would they be doing kind of with and for the District?

I don't have a -- that result -- that has not been resolved finally. I mean, I think one of the biggest challenges is trying to put in place in government a process that works so that, you know, the planning will be done by, you know, OHCD, by City Planning people. The challenge is the hand-off, you know, how do you actually get things done, you know how does the funding actually happen, whose office do you call. And we haven't finalized, you know, the 24 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET thinking on that.

Is there any particular involvement by the -- I'll kind of pull that back. Do you anticipate any particular and direct involvement, for instance, by the City Planning Commission in the development of -- it may be a little too far gone for, say, Year '27 CDBG plan, but Year '28? Is there any connection between those two entities for the, you know, potential spending of upward of $100 million just again on the federal side?

I mean, we're calling people together. I mean, it started on the Capital Budget, you know, bringing people together who are not normally around the table talking through these issues.

Okay.

You know, I mean, it's across the board. We --

Tell me a little bit about -- you mentioned in response to a question by Council President Verna that the reinvestment fund was doing a review of the CDBG program. Is that over some time, is this a 25 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET longitudinal study, or is this last year's or --

I don't have --

I never heard about that.

I don't have the scope of work. We will make it available when it's complete. There's a draft that's out there. What we asked them to do is take a look at how it is we spend our CDBG money. Are we getting the kind of impact from investing, you know, tens of millions of dollars annually that we ought to get.

Right.

Are there missed opportunities out there. You know, are we focussing, you know, the right programs in the right kind of way. You know, it comes up, for example, with the side lot program. You know, is that the best strategy for acquisition, you know, in some neighborhoods in north central Philadelphia, or is it perhaps a more appropriate strategy for your district, where you have one vacant lot that's sitting between two houses in an otherwise intact neighborhood. 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

Right.

You know, we need to be much more -- may need to be much more focussed on the strategies and on the investments we make so that we really do begin to see the kind of impact that everybody wants to see. I mean, everybody says, you know, We do eight units here, we do eight units there. You know, perhaps that's not the best way. We've asked them to help us try to figure out what might be a more strategic way of investing the resources that we do have.

Two last questions. In that review, do you any anticipation -- I know you said you might not know the full scope of the work. Two areas that I've focused on a fair amount over the past few years with regard specifically to CDBG is not only what we're doing but the dollars that we have but a fairly sizeable and slightly growing amount of dollars that we have no access to whatsoever, and that's because of a pretty significant now repayment of HUD 108 loans from previous years, and I think we're up now over $20 million, which kind of literally 27 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET comes off the top, as well as some fairly high administrative costs and program delivery costs related to a variety of agency costs associated with program delivery. And I understand that, I mean, somebody has to do certain things. But those two items combined I think are now close to about 50 percent of the total amount of money coming in but really never gets to the street because we then have to take care of fairly extensive back office operations and program delivery as well as now a commitment over time made for HUD 108 loan repayment. Do you anticipate that they would be looking at either of those two areas and maybe just kind of giving us some advice as to how we deal with that situation?

I don't know. I'll have to get back to you on that. Those are both areas that we're looking at. I don't know, you know, if the reinvestment fund specifically is looking at those.

Okay.

There are a number of strategies we're looking at. Other cities have 28 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET apparently had some success in 108 loan forgiveness. So we're exploring all of those alternatives.

Okay. Lastly, Councilwoman Blackwell raised the issue about the scholarship program and laid out a number of detailed ideas. This was on my list. I think that this number, the $200,000, has at least been the same number in all of the time that I've been here, and it's the kind of the ninth or tenth budget. So in addition to not only trying to figure out how to more strategically use the dollars, and I guess there are a number of ways to attack it. One of the things I've within wondered over the past couple years is -- I mean, $200,000 is $200,000, it's a lot of money. On the other hand, the value of $200,000 today is not what it was ten years ago, and I don't know when it started at $200,000. But has there ever been any discussion about just literally increasing the amount of money in addition to any other, you know, great ideas that people may have about what to do with 29 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the money?

No. You know, I mean. I think that that --

That's fair.

You asked. It didn't come up.

Yeah, it's usually a yes- or no-question.

You know, I think that it is something to take a look at. You know, it's one of those things, you know, that's created. You know, I mean, you have it all over government. You know, it's just kind of there.

Right.

But, you know, it is something that, you know, perhaps we need to take a critical look at it. You know, when I -- you know, I mean, I sign off on some of this stuff, and it's little scholarships, you know, to help bridge the gap.

Right.

And you can just imagine that, you know, that the kid who gets it is having to cobble together 15, 20 other 30 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET scholarships in order to get in the school.

Right.

And I don't know that there's, you know, that there's -- I don't know when the last time there was some kind of systemic evaluation about what we're getting out of it.

Right.

That, you know, is it possible to spend it more appropriately. You know, I just know that, you know -- I mean, we haven't done that.

Right. I mean, I don't even know where the figure even came from. I mean, it may have had some --

Ben Franklin might have --

He thought it was a good number and we've just continued.

A significant investment.

Right, okay. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke. 31 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, Miss Wilkerson.

Good morning.

Miss Wilkerson, I want to do elaborate on this question around OHCD versus City Planning, NTI Program, and for a specific District Councilperson, I wanted to ask you some questions first, to just kind of get a sense of whether you agree with me with the process. Recently there was a submission of a preliminary plan for Year '26, '26, '27?

'27.

'27. And it was relatively vague in terms of what we plan to do in the next year, and that's not abnormal. There's this round of going around and talking to the District Councilpeople and trying to get a sense of what we'd like to see in our districts in response to the preliminary plan, and then we develop a final plan for submission. I guess my question is, as a District Councilperson who will probably be somewhere in 32 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the loop as it relates to massive demolition, and I understand that there's the potential of some of that demolition starting this particular year. Should I be prepared in the discussion with Mr. Kromer, or whoever it is that comes around and talks about what we like to see, should I be prepared to discuss some potential site assemblage and demolition strategies and apply that to what I'd like to see on the development side of it?

Yes. I mean, part of what we want to do is -- I mean, I think that, you know, we've got timing issues that are going on. You know, we've got the whole Neighborhood Transformation plan in process that's going on. You know, it's on a track that's not exactly parallel with the CDBG track. We want to harness all of the resources so that all of the investments we make are consistent with some kind of plan. And I think, you know, part of the conversation has to be how we invest the, you know, money after all the demolition happens. We're going to have to do things differently. You know, every time we take down a 33 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET building, we're not going to have to have -- we're not going to have enough money to rebuild the building. You know, there's going -- we eventually are going to have to come together and agree on strategies that guide the investment of dollars that the City has available.

So, I mean, should I be realistically looking at Year '27 or '28? This sense of timing is important because of the nature of some parts of my district. And you know, you and I know, and I think everybody else knows in this room, if you're going to do demolition particularly on a massive scale, the worst thing that can happen is that we demolish a bunch of properties, and at the end of the year, there's debris and we get people complaining about this massive demolition and no clear interim or long-term strategies associated with that land. And I guess I'm trying to get a sense, should I look for this particular year when Mr. Kromer comes around? 'Cause I have a couple of ideas about the locations, or should I realistically look in Year '28?

You know, the plan 34 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET doesn't reflect it at this point, the planning process is not all in place. But, I mean, this -- you know, hopefully, this will be the year where we begin, you know, reflecting a difference in how it is that we're investing resources. You know, we have don't have a process in place yet for doing that. But you know, you are correct, the demolition, you know, there will be more demolition activity happening this year. We've got an Operating Budget that reflects, you know, more support for neighborhoods, so that as buildings come down, there's more City capacity to maintain some of the land that is being cleared, you know, understanding that, you know, every lot is not going to have a property rebuilt on it. But, you know, this is the year where we need to, you know, begin the conversation about, you know, how do we rebuild. I mean, this is the time.

Okay. Your answer to this next question may be speculative because of the nature of the question. The new administration in Washington, DC, during the course of the campaign, talked about changing this 35 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET whole process of allocations of funds, particularly on the block from HUD, and they wanted to focus it directly to the states and have the states determine how it would be allocated across the states and the various counties. Right now, I think we're in a process where our application goes directly to HUD.

Mm-hmm.

If the administration keeps the promise, have we thought about a strategy associated with that? I mean, you talked about other interaction with the State and with Washington as it relates to lobbyists and staffing. Are we going to be in a position, or have we thought about that, or will be thinking about how we will be responding to that, if in fact it happens?

We have had some conversations with the State. There have been meetings with PHFA. We've had conversations with the Governor's Office about developing a closer relationship with the City so that, you know the State becomes a partner in trying to rebuild our neighborhoods. It was not a conversation; it was 36 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET CDBG grant-specific. You know, those conversations haven't happened.

Do you think we're in a position that we'll get a heads-up in the event that Mr. Bush calls his good friend, Mr. Ridge and says he's thinking about implementing that strategy?

Or will he be calling Mayor Street too?

That's what I'm trying to say. I mean, I see a little loop developing here, you know.

He's one of the guys.

Let's hope he's one of the guys in that loop, right? I'm sorry, I've been told that Councilman Rizzo may get that call first, and that works with me. (Laughter.)

He'll be calling up to the fourth floor, fifth floor. You know, we are working on developing the relationship. The Governor has expressed interest in Philadelphia neighborhoods and, you 37 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET know, there have been these general conversations -- nothing specific yet, but look forward to having, you know that -- a close relationship. The State has a lot of resources that Philadelphia doesn't access traditionally. You know, everybody knows about the Brown Fields money. We don't get -- you know, we're working to get more of that. We're working to better manage the PHFA process so those resources reflect the City's priorities for spending, not, you know, some developers' political connections. You know, so we've had some of those conversations; we have not talked specifically about the CDBG and what happens if it ends up coming through the State.

Okay. And it would be helpful to me if that discussion was had sooner or later.

All right.

Miss Wilkerson, during my tenure as a staff person and then as a Councilperson, one of the things I've really had a concern about was what I view as duplication of services in a lot of our departments and some of the ancillary agencies, these quasi-agencies, 38 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET particularly around organizing. As an example right now, I think we may have four or five, maybe even six, entities whose sole responsibility is to organize block captains and community leaders. Is there somebody's that's going to take a hard look at it and possibly decrease that redundancy in that?

We're taking a look at what it is that the Mayor's Office of Community Service does. You know, it -- you know, and envision that as being a point of community engagement. You're right, currently the Streets Department does Philadelphia More Beautiful. It historically has maintained the network of block captains. You know, it doesn't have anything, you know, any conversations at all with some of the other areas of the City that are involved with neighborhoods. And so we're looking at trying to better utilize the MOCS office. There are organizers, for example, that have been trained by the Safe and Sound Program looking at perhaps bringing those trained organizers into the City to better -- you know, 39 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET and trying to centralize the organizers under one umbrella, you know, and linking them more closely to actual programs that the City's trying to implement so that they're not just kind of stranded out there, you know, doing their own thing.

So would they be -- you said bringing them to the City. Would there be like one department where we bring those people and put them in the MOCS, or do we people from Philadelphia More Beautiful and put them in the MOCS, or do we centralize that?

We're starting with MOCS, trying to figure out -- I don't know who all will end up being called back into MOCS. You know, I mean, there are some very specific things that some of the -- you know, for example Recycling has some very specific goals that it's trying to accomplish, and it's not clear that, you know, the folk that it has working with neighborhoods are appropriately located in MOCS. So we're trying to, you know, figure out some of that. What is clear, though, is that over 40 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET time, things have become so dispersed that there is no accountability. You know, City funds people through the CDBG grant, for example, has people working in max. You know, in a lot of ways, they are no more than community organizers. And yet what it is that they do is no more linked to anything else going on in the City. You know, they ought to be carrying the same message that is being carried by -- you know, I mean, if it's a priority for the City, it ought to be a priority reflected in their contract, and none of that happens currently.

Right. Whose responsible for doing this?

It is the kind of issue that's being tackled, you know, in Neighborhood Transformation. I think we first -- you know, early on, there was some kind of, you know, some kind of neighborhood cleaning that was happening. And, you know, we were trying to, you know, figure out what we had out there. And what became clear is we didn't have any kind of system, and it's one of those things that we understand is critical if Neighborhood Transformation is going to be 41 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET successful. And so those folk have been trying to identify the resources and help develop the strategies that will bring, you know, everybody at least onto the same page, if not under the same umbrella.

So at some point, hopefully we can expect a report or a recommendation coming out of the NTI Office.

That would look at the whole community engagement issue and how it is that the City organizes itself to better utilize those resources.

Okay, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Before recognizing Councilman Kenney, I'd just like to ask Miss Wilkerson one question. When will the Administration come forward with its NTI Program that brings together all of the funding sources and detailing how the program will work?

I will try to -- I will get you a specific date. You know, there was a death in Pat's family, and she's not been 42 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET available. We will have an opportunity to talk -- she's back in the office now -- so that we can better coordinate, you know, exactly what the timetable will be. I don't have that information right now.

Well, I think many of us or anxious to hear about how the program will work.

I understand.

So I don't know when you're going to be expecting this to pass, but I think we definitely want information beforehand. Councilman Kenney?

Thank you, Madam Chair. Miss Wilkerson, in the issue of the new economy, what role do you believe that the expansion and designation of the KOZs will play in this new-economy initiative?

I think that where you have KOZs that abut -- for example, there are KOZ designations near the University Science Center. I met with Jill Felix just yesterday, exploring 43 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET with her the role that the KOZ designation would have, and she's excited about the possibility of having something in that area because it enables them to provide low-cost rental space in an area that's adjacent to a rich -- you know, an educationally-rich, university environment. They have -- we have programs there already that fund incubators -- you know, that incubate new initiatives. And so in a situation like that, the KOZ becomes an important strategy in a new-economy initiative. The City has also designated areas adjacent to Temple University as a KOZ. It's something that happened in the last round. The thinking behind that was that it is an opportunity to, you know, by virtue of the proximity perhaps stimulate, you know, opportunities for better leveraging the resources of the University. So I think it really is -- it's specific to the actual sub zone that you're talking about. In other areas, it may not have any impact at all.

What is the deadline for the approval of the KOZs through this 44 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Council and to Harrisburg?

The KOZ application is due in Harrisburg on the 28th. It would have to be --

Due in Harrisburg on the 28th of. . .?

The 28th of February. It would have to come out of City Council -- I don't have a calendar in front of me, but --

What is the status of the current drawing-of-boundaries discussion with Councilmembers, testimony as to the efficacy of certain KOZs, all of the information necessary for us to do our due diligence, and make an informed vote and approval of this prior to the 28th of February?

The lists are being circulated to District Councilmembers. The Commerce Department is visiting with Councilmembers, the District Councilmembers. The list ought to be transmitted today that is property-specific. The legislation that was transmitted last week identified broad zones. It, you know, 45 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET didn't have boundaries associated with it, so, you know, it was perhaps largely unhelpful.

Have there been discussions in the broad-based zones? Have there been discussions with the owners of private property as to their desire or opposition to being part of a designated KOZ zone? And who is doing that outreach?

I don't know the understand the for every property. The outreach is being handled out of the Commerce Department. Vince Dougherty is the KOZ manager, Jim Cuorato has been involved. There have been, you know, any number of conversations.

How long have we known that we needed to have this application into Harrisburg by the 28th of February? When was that made clear to us that that was the deadline?

I think -- well, I know the legislation, I believe, was passed in December. I don't know when the 28th deadline became apparent.

Is there any reason why we're seemingly doing this the last week? 46 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

Part of it is the kind of requirements that come out of the KOZ process. What you have to have are contiguous acres. 5 And so what the City does is, you know, it 6 identifies areas where it thinks it may want to 7 have a KOZ. It takes a look at the kind of 8 activity that is already going on in that area, 9 and attempts to select properties that meet the 10 City's criteria, and the Commerce Department 11 people can talk with you about the criteria. 12 There then is this process of 13 developing the fiction, you know, that enables the 14 City to abrogate 15 acres, you know, and what the 15 law allows you to do is use railroad tracks and, you know, all kinds of conduits to, you know, cobble together parcels that are of appropriate size. The City then looks at -- you know, does some analysis of what the tax impact is. So, you know, there are a lot of different steps that have to be taken, you know, before final decisions are made about what ought to be considered and what ought to be included.

What interface or advice or consult -- consultation have we had with 47 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the development community in the City of Philadelphia as to what they believe their needs are? Have we talked with developers from outside of the City of Philadelphia, from New York, from Boston, from cities who have done successful new economy initiatives and development? I mean, I have nothing against the Commerce Department. You know, I think Jim Cuorato's an excellent person, I've worked with him over the years. But in many ways, government kind of thinks in their own way. And these designations, I understand, are going to be in effect for 13 years is that true?

For ten or thirteen years, yeah.

So it's a pretty significant commitment that we're making in designating certain areas. And my view -- and my view is limited because of the information that's available to us, and I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but it seems like on every major economic development project, Council is maybe one of the last entities 48 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET to be informed, and even more so, District Councilpeople who are having these areas designated in their own district have very little, if any, information today as we sit here with a, you know, a 15-day deadline for us to deal with this. And without input from nationally recognized development, without input from the local development, without input from District Councilpeople or at-large-Councilmembers, aren't we just kind of walking around in the dark here, and are we going to designate things for the next decade that we won't be able to undesignate and we may lose opportunities that we weren't even aware of?

I don't know the details of all the contact that that happened. I know that, you know, Jill Felix, for example, runs one of the most successful new-economy incubators -- people come from all over the world to, you know, take a look at what's going on. You know, the Commerce Department people did sit down and had conversations about what it is, you know, that helps these businesses, you know, you know, what 49 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET it is that they would like to have included, you know, and you get different feedback from different people. I mean, what she will suggest to you is that we don't need to be spreading it all around. If what we really want to do is create centers of concentration, that we ought to focus our resources, you know, in a very strategic way in a very limited area. You know, and so you have other people that say, No, the real new-economy opportunities are out at the Navy Yard. Depending on who you talk to, you get different answers. And the motivation, you know, frequently is different. I mean, think one of the problems with the KOZ is that it comes down the pike, it comes down with a short turnaround. I think the last time there was a relatively short turnaround. It does not allow a lot of flexibility. You would want to be able to make a property-by-property decision about whether or not you want to, you know, grant all of the benefits that are associated with it. Once you draw the designation, you end up having to use other less 50 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET direct devices to try to focus the activity. You know, it is a hard decision to make, whether you do, you know, years work of 5 all of the these tax concessions or not. For 6 example, you have an area like the West Bank, that 7 is perhaps one of the hotter growth areas in the 8 City. You know, do you put a KOZ there? Is it 9 development that was going to happen anyway? You 10 know, once you grant it -- 11

I have a lot of 12 respect for the development community in 13 Philadelphia. However, it is a small group of people with a perhaps individual view of what we should do in the City to develop. I mean, I'm in favor of big box retail, but not only big box retail. I'm in favor of developing football and baseball arenas, but not only that. And if we don't really reach out into the national development community or even, God forbid, the international development community and simply hold this opportunity to ourselves, I mean, I look at Council, for example, and there's a lot of smart people and who have a lot of ideas, but none of us are ever asked until almost the last minute, 51 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET and it seems to be more a perfunctory asking than it is a real desire to kind of deal with each other and brainstorm and bring these things forward. So, I mean, that's a criticism of this process that I find making continually as it relates to large development projects in the City. I think we're really kept in the dark, and I think it's really not in the process's best interest. So, I mean, I'm really concerned about what we're going to wind up with and how it's going to affect our development potential over the next decade. So I would appreciate -- I would appreciate having some ability for us to do our jobs in a way that we feel like when we make a decision, we really know what's going on and we're informed and we've been part of the process. I don't think we have been.

Mr. Cuorato will be up here and will be able to talk to you more fully about the kind of engagement that's taken place and with whom, you know, he has consulted in the development community. 52 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET I don't know that it's appropriate to characterize it as "nobody's been consulted." I think the process with respect to Council, you know, leaves a lot to be desired. I -- you know, I think that it -- you know, as I've tried to explain it, it is difficult because of the kind of scrubbing you have to do of every parcel before it is, you know, that -- it just makes it a hard analysis to do in a very --

Is there some intention to KOZ the entire Navy Yard?

That's the proposal that's on the --

The entire center?

That's a proposal that's on the table. I think one problem with that is the City historically has -- has -- has not wanted to do residential KOZs. There are proposals out there to do the --

I thought they couldn't do residential KOZs. I thought KOZs for residential development was specifically prohibited in the State statute.

No. 53 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

Well --

No. 4

I thought it was -- I had read and I will do the research on statements made by members of the legislature and the Governor's Office, but I think they clearly did not intend this to be giving people a waiver of the wage tax in certain areas where residential development occurs.

I think that it's a policy determination that the City has made to exclude residence -- that the City does not want residential KOZ. I think the State law specifically provides for residential KOZ. It provides for payment in lieu of taxes as a way of trying to dampen the impact of having residential KOZs. The City, I believe, as a policy matter, the last time around, decided not to have residential KOZs. There was a proposal that was made to create a zoning overlay that would have restricted residential development in any kind of KOZ, but I believe it's explicitly authorized in State law. 54 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET And I think that's one of the problems that you have at the Navy Yard. While KOZ may be, you know, something the City wants to do to promote economic development, once you impose a KOZ, you almost have made the decision not to have residential development. Although there are a lot of folk who want to see a more balanced development happen in the Navy Yard. And so, you know, that's the kind of issue that you wrestle with. You know, Mr. Cuorato will be, you know, will be circulating, you know, the proposal. I believe it is not going to be the entire Naval Yard in part because there's interest in having mixed-use development and not having residential KOZs.

Is it still a policy of City not to KOZ a residential development?

I -- the City does -- you know, the Administration is not proposing residential KOZs.

Is it the Administration's policy to impose or not to support residential development in a KOZ? 55 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

You know, I mean, this is a conversation perhaps for tomorrow. I think that we're looking at strategies, perhaps the zoning overlay strategy, as a way of limiting the development of residential KOZ. I think that -- you know, I think that it may be appropriate in some situations. It needs more consideration than, you know, than this round really affords. But I think, you know, I mean, it's been used other places and it's been used effectively, but I think it's one of those things that has to be carefully considered. You have to know why you're doing it and not back into it haphazardly.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to come back to some more questions later.

Of Ms. Wilkerson? I think you're the only one on the board here, so you could certainly continue unless somebody --

Madam Chair?

Well, do you have your light on? 56 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

I thought I did. It went off.

Councilman Kenney, do you mind yielding?

I don't mind.

Okay. Councilman Ortiz?

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, Joyce.

Good morning.

How many employees do we have right now in the City workforce?

I don't know the exact number. Maybe 22,000, give or take? About or 17 25,000. 18

Could -- that's -- 19

I can have somebody get 20 you the exact number; I don't know the exact 21 number. 22

Yeah, I'd like to 23 have something more specific than that. 24

Mr. Dubow will come up and give you the specific answer. 57 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

And do we have a breakdown of employees by each of the ten operational departments in terms of. . . (Witness comes forward.)

There are 25,200 General Fund employees.

Excuse me?

There are 25,200 General Fund employees.

25,200?

Yes.

Could you -- could you give me a comparison of how we are at this stage from where we were eight years ago?

Yeah, actually, one of the questions that came up last week was what was City employment in '92 and what it is now, and we actually provided a written response today, so you have that. There's a written response that came over to Council this morning that lays that out.

Explain it to me.

Uh --

Explain what was City employment eight years ago and what is City 58 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET employment today. I thought City employment meant that you worked for the City on a full-time basis.

In '92, there were 24,051 positions at the end of the year. We've gone up about 1200 since then, and most of the increase has been in police, human services, and in prisons.

So we have -- but have we maintained the other areas and just gone up in police and human services?

The other areas have gone down about 400 positions -- or actually, no, I'm wrong. There are some areas that have gone down. Like the Streets Department went down because they've implemented more efficient ways of collecting trash, so the number we have collecting trash has gone down, even though on-time collection has gone up. So there are some areas that have gone down.

For the last nine years, we've heard during these hearings statements about streamlining government, bringing 59 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET government down to a sizeable -- a manageable size, and we have during that same period of time lost over 170,000 people from the City, and the level of City employees has remained constant or has grown. And you attribute the growth to police and human services.

And prisons.

What?

And prisons.

And prisons. So have we grown more violent during the last nine years?

I think part of what's happened is that -- we actually at the rainy day fund hearing had this discussion. One of the people from the rating agencies described it as we have kind of a more costly population left by people with greater needs, and --

So that translates that we have a poorer population.

That's -- that's right. That's part of it, yeah. And so there's a greater need for things like social services.

I think -- 60 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

What about other departments that do not deal directly with the poor?

I'm sorry, what?

What about other departments that don't deal directly with the poor?

Well, let me just look at the -- I think other than those departments that we mentioned, that 1162, we've actually gone down a little. There has been a decrease.

In which departments have --

The Streets Department. I think Fairmount Park has gone down. I could actually get you a list of how each department compares from '92 till now.

During that same period of time say, or let's say during the last five years, do we have any data that would give us an accounting of those jobs and those activities that were performed by City employees but now have been out-sourced to private consultants?

Yes. We can get you that. 61 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

Can you give us that?

Yeah, we can get you that.

Do you have a list in terms of the City in terms of how much money it is that we're spending on out-sourcing; and, two, how much money we're spending on consultants?

Yes. We can get you that. I should say that out-sourcing slowed down considerably because the labor agreements that we have restrict out-sourcing to functions that won't result in layoffs of City employees. So, I mean, there's been a slowdown in that, but we could get you the list of everything that's down.

Do you have the amount of money and the number of consultants by departments that we now employ?

Yeah.

I'd like to see if we could get that.

Certainly.

And how many -- how many nonunion employees are represented in the 62 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET health program that the City runs?

I have to get back to you on that.

And who runs that -- the health program?

I think it's run through the Personnel Department, but --

Do you have any idea of what the cost of running that program is?

No. I'd have to get back to you on that too.

Can we get that information?

Yes.

And the number of individuals that are on there?

Yes.

Because all of our staff is under that program.

Right. And we'll get you that, too.

And a detailed accounting of, you know, the costs in terms of administrative -- I'd like to find out how much 63 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET administratively it costs the City to run that program.

Yeah, we'll get you that information.

Vis-a-vis, I'd like to see it in comparison with how much it costs the labor unions to run their programs.

Okay.

Okay? Thank you, Madam Chair.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a few more questions relative to the Mayor's actual staff and office. Compared to eight or ten years ago -- let me go back. What is the number of people that are actually assigned to the Mayor's Office now? And I'm including people working as deputy mayors, special assistants, and anyone who's a deputy managing director assigned to the Mayor's function. And how does that compare to eight years ago or nine years ago. 64 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

I don't have -- there's 69 slots in the Mayor's Office now. When you ask, though, what other resources, because we do have lawyers, you know, from the Law Department that serve as part of my staff, for example, I'd have to, you know, go back and do a count that gets the exact number. I think that we -- I know we have more than the previous administration. The previous administration did not have an External Affairs component. I think that has been something that has been missing from the Mayor's Office. With the Charter change, the Mayor has more --

Is there more than one person in that office?

No -- yes, there is more than one person.

How many are there?

There are -- I think there are three people specifically in that office.

And is that clerical support or is that policy people, or who 65 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET are they?

Some of it is people that function with policy capacity and also -- you know, and then there's clerical support for the office as well. There is, for example, responsibility -- the Mayor has broader responsibility for education than before, and so there are two people that focus on education -- Debra Kahn and Shane Kramer. So there are reasons why this Mayor's office is larger.

I mean, I don't have an opinion whether bigger's better or smaller's better. I'm just trying to get a grasp and understanding of what the size is and what that size is for. And based, I guess, on Councilmember Goode's question, I don't know whether he asked for an organization the chart.

Yeah. We'll --

You'll be doing that? And I need to know, and you don't have to tell me today, what the five new secretarial areas have increased the Mayor's specific budget, both from secretaries and personnel for support staff. Do you know whether today the Secretary 66 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET of Boards and Authorities has ensured that offices appoint -- that all of the offices available be appointed by the Mayor have, in fact, been appointed? Do we know what's left that's not appointed?

I can get you a report on that. There are over a hundred, I guess, boards and authorities, and there are always, you know, vacancies that come up. I can get you a status report on exactly what --

Do you have any sense as to whether or not this problem is -- the openings -- the availabilities are wide or it's getting narrowed or if almost everybody has been appointed?

It's fewer than it was before. Like I said, you know, there are a hundred and, you know, I don't know, you know -- I mean -- some of -- a lot of these entities were defunct essentially. You know, you had -- nobody knew who served. You know, they were just not attended to at all. So I don't know, you know -- I can give you a status report. I can't comment on that. 67 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

Is there any analysis as to whether or not they're in fact needed since they were --

Yeah, they're looking at some of that. They're -- you know, I mean, it's how Philadelphia has evolved. There are commissions for everything, there are boards, you know, for everything. You know. . .

And you'll send that to us through the Chair?

Yes.

And just one final request. Bill No. 505 is currently on the calendar in final-passage mode. It is campaign finance reform.

Mm-hmm.

I've sent a letter to the Mayor asking, based on Mr. Burrell's testimony in our previous hearing, that he would be willing to give us some information or some ideas as to how this bill could be made better. Today, I haven't heard anything, and I'd really appreciate some input on the issue. And that goes for any other Councilmembers that have desires to 68 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET make suggestions for amendment or change. I'd like to try to get that moving.

All right.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.

Thank you, Madam President. I want to go back to a earlier question from Councilman Kenney where he talked about the KOZ application and at what point we were going to be briefed on it. I think your response was District Councilmembers have received packages regarding the KOZ application?

I know that the Commerce Department is going around talking to District Councilpeople with the, you know, the laundry list of properties under consideration. You're an at-large Councilperson, I understand.

Right.

And that leaves you out of the loop.

And why would that 69 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET leave me out of the loop?

I don't have a good answer for that. I think that, you know, I will make sure that they (inaudible).

My concern is not just being left out as a member of Council, but that these issues, along with TIF issues, generally, from my understanding of how economic development strategies work, you're actually forgiving taxes in particular districts and foregoing revenue that could be used citywide. And so I don't know what District Councilperson wouldn't want to forgive taxes in their district, wouldn't want to forgive taxes for development in their district, wouldn't want to eliminate as much as possible from their district at the expense of the taxpayers citywide. And I think it's the responsibility of that at-large Councilperson to not only look at the economic development strategy, but particularly tax policies associated with economic development strategy, so it seems that you would more likely have at-large people look at it not only in addition to, but even as a matter of 70 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET fairness in terms of development, because if you look at where the TIFs have gone, if you look at where the KOZs are probably -- without even looking at it, I know who developed it, so I know where it's going. It's concentrated in one or two Council districts; is that correct?

No, I don't think that's correct. It's -- there are proposals for the 5th District, for the 7th District, for the 10th District, for the 2nd District.

In terms of the TIF projects --

Oh, the TIF projects, I'm sorry.

And in terms -- no, and in terms of the square mileage under the KOZs, are the KOZs' sub zones, the packages we'll be discussing tomorrow will probably be concentrated in one or two Council districts?

You know, I don't -- I don't -- I can't -- I don't know -- I don't have the answer to that. I think that your point is well taken, you know, that there needs to be consultation with 71 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET not just District Councilpeople. I think some of the -- and I think that there is a different perspective. I don't know that I agree that the perspective you -- you know, I don't think Councilpeople are eager to make properties tax-exempt just 'cause they're in their district. I mean, that's not the --

Their voting record says so.

That's not the quality of the, you know, of the feedback that District Councilmembers provide, but I think that there is value in consulting broadly, and the conversation certainly needs to be broader than it's been thus far.

In reality, let me be more specific, then. We have forgiven hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes under Tax Increment Financing, and I think there's still some plans to do so. Most of those dollars that have been forgiven have been concentrated in one or two districts. Under the KOZ, in terms of proposed development zones is being a tax policy set up in 72 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET those development zones. I'm suggesting that they are probably concentrated in the same one or two districts, and we are forgiving taxes in concentrated development at the expense of taxpayers citywide. But that's not an issue to be dealt with today; it's an issue to be dealt with it tomorrow, we'll deal with it tomorrow.

I mean, you know, I'll make sure they have that, you know, that information for tomorrow. I think that the City has, for example, created tax abatements. Those are citywide in a lot of ways. That's a strategy that has displaced the TIF strategy in a lot of ways. You know, I think it --

And I would suggest it's more fair -- cutting taxes across the board for everyone.

Mm-hmm.

Thank you.

Thank you very much. Are there any more questions for the 73 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Chief of Staff? (No further questions.)

Thank you very much. The Finance Department is next. (Witness comes forward.)

Good morning. Thank you for coming. Would you identify yourself for the record and begin your testimony.

On behalf of the employees of the Office of the Director of Finance, I am pleased to provide testimony on the presented proposed Fiscal 2002 Operating Budget. I'm Janice Davis, the Director of Finance. With me are Rob Dubow and other finance representatives who are available to answer any questions. As has been the custom, I will focus on the requested finance budget for Fiscal 2002. I will also provide the status of those initiatives begun by the Finance group over the past year, as well as the initiatives to be undertaken during FY 2002. The Office of the Director of Finance's Fiscal Year 2002 budget proposal for all funds 74 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET totals $821,670,483. The General Fund budget request is $629,015,146. The single largest component budget is employee fringe benefits, budgeted at $575,858,658. Of this, $513,337,000 is funded by the General Fund. This represents a $10,059,286, or 2 percent, increase over the current Fiscal Year 2001 projection. Other large elements of the finance budget include legal services and witness fees, contributions to educational organizations, and refunds and indemnities. The Administration is proposing to provide the Community College $21,767,924 in their FY 2002, an increase of $1 million over Fiscal Year 2001. The Office of the Director of Finance is comprised of seven divisions: Executive Direction, Office of Budget and Program Evaluation, Office of Management and Productivity, Minority Business Enterprise Council, Accounting Bureau, the Office of Administrative Review, and Risk Management. 3 million from the current projection for 75 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Fiscal Year 2001. This decrease is the result of the elimination of a one-time appropriation for a loan to PGW of $45 million and reductions in appropriations across the divisions. The budget anticipates 182 full-time General Fund positions. In its ongoing effort to improve vendor payment process, the Accounting Bureau in June 2000 implemented an automated clearinghouse process for paying City vendors. Vendors who opt for the ACH process receive their payments electronically. This process reduces the cost and time required for post-processing handling of vendor payments. During FY 2002, the City will be required to implement the government accounting standards for Statement No. 34. This statement represents the most dramatic change ever to governmental accounting and reporting. To prepare for this change, the Accounting Division formed a (indiscernible) 34 implementation team that has met weekly to identify and develop solutions for many issues presented by this new requirement. Risk Management continues to reduce the number of injured on-duty and Worker's 76 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Compensation claims annually from a total of 5,270 in Fiscal Year '99 to a projected 4,920 in Fiscal Year 2001. The Fiscal Year 2002 estimate is 4,757 total claims. In Fiscal Year 2001, the Risk Management Division instituted measures to improve the quality of medical services and of disability cases by hiring its own medical director to monitor the City's contractor. In addition, two division employees now offer patient advocacy based on employee feedback. During Fiscal Year 2002, Risk Management will use this assessment information to strengthen contractual requirements on performance. During Fiscal Year 2001, the Office of Administrative Review continues collaborative efforts done last year with the First Judicial District to increase traffic fine collections. In addition to assuming responsibility for the traffic courts fiscal unit, in Fiscal Year 2001, OAR will take over all financial functions related to fine collection. By consolidating collection responsibility, the collection rate is expected to increase from 17 percent to percent. 25 The Minority Business Enterprise 77 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Council will present testimony in conjunction with the Procurement Department.

Other departments, boards, and commissions under the direction of the Office of the Director of Finance -- Revenue, City Treasurer, Sinking Fund Commission, Board of Revision of Taxes, and the Board of Pensions and Retirements -- will provide separate testimony on their budget and initiatives. I am happy to answer any questions you may have at this time. Thank you .

Thank you very much. Miss Davis, what are the requirements of the Government Accounting Standards Board, and how will they impact the City?

I don't know if I have -- I'll give it a go. One of the major changes is that the full reporting entity reports on a full -- instead of modified accrual, on a full accrual basis. It will be reported much as your enterprise funds, or water and sewer, with expenses instead of expenditures. Depreciation will also be captured on General Fund, which is something that's not 78 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET currently done. Your account groups seem to exist on a citywide basis, and there are other very technical changes in the accounting. The City will be impacted in that you have to provide some assessment of your fixed assets, and because of the depreciation requirement, keep track of how your fiscal plant actually is being taken care of. There are two ways you can deal with it. And I'm not up on that quite enough, and maybe there's somebody from Accounting who can give you that information a little better than I can. But it forces the City to sort of look at itself as a business enterprise for the general presentation, and the individual funds are still reported on the basis that they've been reported presently. So the (indiscernible) will be a little different.

I'm sorry. What was your last statement?

The annual report will be a little different in its presentation.

Why are you 79 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET reducing your General Fund positions from 190 positions in the FY '01 Adopted Budget to 182 for FY '02? What are the positions and how will you be able to eliminate them?

Okay, we've taken the 1.5 percent cut in Class 100 that everyone else did, and some of them were vacant positions that we're choosing not to fill. Two positions we have just chosen not to fill them, we'll sort of circle the wagons and do without it. We don't expect any degradation in service by cutting out those positions.

There are only two vacant positions, you said, that you're not filling?

Well, there are two in particular that we're just not filling. The others -- we took roughly one position from each division and we took five from Accounting, and we're just not going to fill them. And those were vacant positions. We're not firing anybody. Or laying anybody off.

I'm sorry, I'm not following you at all. There is a 80 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET difference of eight positions.

And we took --

Are they all vacant?

They are all vacant positions.

So you are not filling any of the eight positions.

Yes.

Thank you. Please explain what Laughton & Associates do. And why are they designated as PGW's consultants. Why is the General Fund, and not PGW, paying for their services?

Excuse me, which --

I believe that's on -17. It's the Risk Management/PGW consultant.

Joe Perrello from Risk Management. (Witness comes forward.)

Good morning.

Good morning, Council President Verna. My name is my name is Joseph L. 81 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Perrello from the Finance Department. The reason why Risk Management Division used Laughton & Associates to provide support for the PGW operations was that PGW operations was without their own risk management support team, and they were in the process of going through some serious insurance renewals, and so the City volunteered to assist them in putting together their renewals for the present and the next fiscal years.

But I think the question is, why isn't PGW paying for that? (Councilmembers respond off-mic.)

Huh? Let's not go there.

PGW was not in a position at that point to pay for it, and our department was asked to pick it up.

Miss Davis, can you tell us, why is the City contracting with PAID for lobbying services in the amount of $78,000? That's also on -17.

That was originally the (indiscernible) contract, and they were doing a 82 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET lot of the lobbying for the City, and it was just being handled through PAID. And that's why we were contracting -- making the payment to PAID and PAID was then paying the lobbyist who was providing services to the City.

Also on that same page, can you tell us why the City is contracting with the RDA? What services are they providing for the $150,000? And tell us how long has the City been contracting with the RDA for these services. (Witness comes forward.)

I'm Linda Orfanelli, Deputy Director of Finance. The City has a long-term agreement which was established during former Mayor Goode's tenure, where we had -- which -- this agreement is in effect until 2010. We pay back administrative costs to the RDA for certain programs relating to homeless.

Thank you.

Excuse me, I didn't hear.

To the homeless program 83 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET that they run.

Miss Davis, what happened in FY '01 to cause the indemnity accounts to increase by $15.1 million over its FY 2000 level? Why will the FY '02 requirement be $10.9 million less than the FY '01 requirements? That is on -75.

The increase in 2001 was in anticipation of the Osage Avenue expenditures and the decrease in the following year is because we will be (indiscernible) with those.

I'm sorry, I think we're having trouble hearing you.

The increase was -- the increase in 2001 was because of the Osage Avenue properties, the acquisition of those properties, and the work surrounding those. And it's anticipated that we will be done with that in FY 2002.

How many properties are involved?

A total of 61.

Our calculation is that it would be about $245,000 a 84 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET property, if there are 62 properties. Is that correct?

I'm also informed that there was some environmental remediation cases that we were paying off.

I beg your pardon?

I'm also informed that there were some environmental remediation cases that we were paying off.

Could we have a breakdown, please?

Yes. We'll give you a breakdown in writing.

Miss Davis, what does the Administration project the total amount of refunds to be for the personal property tax? Where are these refunds budgeted? Did there not -- how are they paid, and why do they not go through appropriations? Do we have a City Solicitor's opinion on this? (Witness comes forward.) COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: Good morning. I'm Nancy Kammerdeiner, Revenue 85 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Commissioner. We have approximately $35 million in refund petitions for the personal property tax that are pending. Those cover all years that were applied for, and we have not yet broken that down year-by-year to determine exactly how much we will need to refund after we finish the process of collecting on the 1996 tax. That's our next step. We have not yet completed all of the work on identifying the precise amount of the refunds. But (inaudible) is about 35 million.

But why wouldn't it be budgeted? And if it is, where is it in the budget? Is it in the Five-Year Plan?

Tax refunds are paid out of the Revenue account. Only the fees paid are budgeted, so it will go out of the Revenue account, is what I'm being told.

I think they're for current years. We're talking about '94, '95, and '96. COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: The normal process for paying a refund is to pay it from the incoming revenues of the same type. We are in the 86 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET process right now of collecting 1996 personal property tax. And then the next phase will be the work with the refunds, and that is why I'm saying that we're segmenting this, and we will be looking at addressing exact amounts on refunds following the collection of the 1996 tax. And those refunds will come from the tax collected.

How about if the taxes aren't enough?

At that point, we will have to come back to City Council to do a transfer ordinance.

Okay. To the extent that the City moves forward with the blight program, will the Department of L&I be contracting for demolition work?

The way it's envisioned is that the Redevelopment Authority would actually do the contracting.

Through the RDA?

Yes. There would be a three-way agreement which would allow Licenses and Inspections to actually do the condemnation, and 87 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET RDA would do the condemnation -- I mean, the RDA would do the contracting with the --

RDA for demolition?

Yes. (Councilmember asks Mr. Dubow question off-mic.)

No, RDA doesn't have the power of condemnation; only L&I does. I think -- let me just -- I think the question you're getting at is --

Doesn't that take City Council out of the picture totally?

We've had discussions with Council technical staff, and we understand that you'd rather have us set it up so that L&I does the contracting, and so we will do it that way. It's not reflected that way in the budget, so we'll have to have a change to the budget.

In the Five-Year Plan.

Yes, that's right.

I don't think there's any Councilmember here, to the best of my 88 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET knowledge, that would like it to go through the RDA.

Fine, we will change it.

Miss Davis, on , Budget in Brief, please explain the Water Residual Fund.

We have to get that information for you. At a later time, we'll get it to your office.

Thank you. I just have one last question. The Five-Year Plan on states that the Department of Licenses and Inspections will also continue to use its expanded ability to issue tickets and fines for code violations as part of the NTI, with a 100 increase in tickets issued estimated for FY '02. Would you please show us where these additional revenues are in the Budget in Brief, as I don't seem to be able to find them.

Those are not included.

I beg your pardon?

This revenue is not 89 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET included in the Budget in Brief.

Well, shouldn't it be?

We're taking a conservative approach until we actually see that there is this increase.

I don't know what that means at all. Councilwoman Blackwell?

Thank you. I likewise have a question with regard to tickets. And I wanted to know how the department will move to increase the fine collections. And in the past, when there have been changes, there's been an amnesty for people with outstanding tickets, and we wanted to know how that will work.

Are you referring to the L&I?

No, we're talking about the traffic fine collections. (Witness comes forward.)

We have a very special person here. Okay, you thought you 90 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET were going to get away easy, huh?

Yes. Good morning, Madam Chair. I'm Dominic Cermele, Deputy Finance Director for the Division of the Office of Administrative Review. I am not and have never been an advocate of amnesties related to any fines, for the simple reason that they don't work. You will -- I don't know how it worked in your family, but in my family, when my children would have overdue books at the Free Library, they always waited until there was an amnesty before they returned those books. And then after the amnesty was over, they would continue the same type of behavior. And the same is true with traffic fines. Amnesty just does not work; it just causes people to delay and wait for the next amnesty. Coupled with that, you have the problem of individuals who miss the amnesty period, having paid just before the amnesty starts, and they tend to sue you because they were not treated equally under the law. So I anticipate that there will be no 25 amnesty period. 91 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

When will this start, and what will these fines be? Or how much will they increase?

We anticipate increasing fines on a percentage basis. That is, we will do that incrementally by changing the type of notifications that go out to individuals by more vigorously enforcing -- or getting the Traffic Court to enforce more vigorously booting and towing related to Act 2360, the law that allows for the impoundment of vehicles that are unregistered or driven by individuals who are uninsured. We have regular meetings now with the Traffic Court. There is a good spirit there for increased enforcement. They are looking at other methodologies for collecting fines, including putting people out on the street. They've, for many years, have had enforcement agents. They've decided now they'll actually use those enforcement agents out on the street.

How much in terms of money are we talking about? How much will the -- for example, what will a parking 92 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET ticket increase by? How much is it now and what will it be?

I'm sorry. We -- if you're asking the amount of revenue coming in, or are you asking --

Both.

Do we anticipate increasing the cost of fines by Council action?

I'm asking the revenue coming in and what the average ticket will be increased by, the violation.

There are no current plans to increase individual violations.

Okay. You've talking at stepped-up enforcement.

Stepped-up enforcement.

Okay.

But that does not mean to say that in the area of parking tickets, we are reviewing, as we do every year, the relationship between our ticket prices and ticket prices for fines by other similar municipalities around the country. So we will review that again this year. And if it is appears that there are -- 93 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET that we are below the average for other large cities, we'll look at that. And we'll weigh that against whether the cost of -- for instance, there's an immediate problem that we're looking at now. If you park on the street and get a ticket for overtime parking, the cost is $15, which is actually cheaper than putting your car in a garage. That means for some people, it's to their advantage to get a ticket rather than put it in a garage. That's not good thing parking management. So that's something we may look at. And if we determine that that is a vital option, then we'll come before Council to look to change those, but there is no budgetary impact right now.

It seems to me -- I hear what you're saying -- that when we decide that we want to expand our Center City businesses, et cetera, everybody complains about -- and I'm not advocating that the City lose revenue, but it seems to me we've got to think about how we -- where we charge and how much, because people complain all the time about Center City parking, and we don't have movies and that sort of thing now. You know, you've got to go far 94 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET for some services, or if you go to a restaurant. We get a lot of complaints. In past years, of course, we've gotten complaints about businesses that would stop to unload and get ticketed when they went in. So I haven't heard those kind of complaints as of late. But all of us hear complaints about the amount of parking fines. I don't know what they charge in other cities, but it seems to me that our fees are high here. At least that's what we hear. People complain all the time about coming in town and the fees they have to pay to park.

I have some preliminary information on what fines are in other municipalities of similar size, and I'd be happy to send that to you.

Thank you. If you will submit that to the President, she'll make sure we get it.

Councilman, do you mind if I ask Mr. Cermele one question?

(Inaudible, off-mic.) 95 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET

Have you been getting any complaints from restaurateurs in Center City or from any of their customers? People pay $14 for valet parking, only to find that their car is parked on the street directly across the street from the restaurant that they're going to. I mean, why would anybody pay $14 to park on the street?

Yes. We don't get a lot of complaints in that area. What we do get --

That is a disgrace.

-- a few complaints on are companies that do that and then get a ticket for the individual, remove the ticket from the individual's car so that the individual doesn't know that he wasted $14 and now he's gotten a fine. And then the first notification that the individual gets is when my office sends notification that he owes the fine and a $23 late penalty. Obviously, that raises much angst among those individuals and, of course, they take it out on me or my hearing examiners. When we do come across those things, we 96 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET report that information to the Department of Licenses and Inspections, who regulates the valet parking individuals.

I'll tell you, I think a lot of our business people in Center City are really being hurt as a result of that. Personally, I think it's a disgrace, I really do.

Well, I think the rate compared to other cities --

I'm not talking about the rate. I think it's unconscionable that somebody pays $14 for valet parking, only to walk out of the restaurant and find that your car is parked directly across the street.

That is contrary to the ordinance that Council has passed. The individuals who --

It's happening, it's happening much too frequently, and I think somebody ought to be looking into that.

We shall.

Thank you. 97 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Thank you, Madam Chair. On that note, you know, we did pass a bill a number of years ago outlining the responsibilities of valet parking operations, and one of those responsibilities is to have the secure, off-street parking facility to take the cars to. Part of the problem, I think, has been because of the popularity of a lot of these restaurants and because of the high profile of perhaps some of these restaurateurs in Center City, L&I has been somewhat reluctant, perhaps the Parking Authority has been somewhat reluctant to kind of clamp down on that practice. I'm wondering whether or not L&I probably doesn't have the personnel to deal with this issue and whether or not it should be something that's in the hands of either the Parking Authority or your office.

Actually, the Parking Authority does enforce it on behalf L&I. That is, if a vehicle is left in the loading zone that the 98 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET valet company's using for the staging of those vehicles, if it remains in the zone too long, then they issue a ticket to the valet company, not to the individual.

Now, there was a myriad of requirements. I mean, there was licensing checks for drivers, there was insurance checks -- I'm sorry, licensing checks for drivers, the elimination of the ability to take over parking meters. I mean, restaurants generally are doing this kind of willy-nilly, just shutting down parking meters, putting up A-frame signs in the middle of the street and doing this valet parking operation. So I'm wondering whether or not maybe a request from the Council President or from Councilmembers to the Parking Authority to look at this a little more closely, but I know that that kind of enforcement will immediately bring a cry from restaurant owners who feel that they're being imposed upon because of this enforcement.

Well, the Parking Authority does have a new Executive Director now, Reverend Bill Moore, and last night was his 99 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET official swearing-in. I find him to be an individual who is very sensitive to the needs of the community, particularly the business community, and I think that is something that you ought to communicate with him, something he would look at very seriously.

Judge, in your conversations with the Traffic Court and with the Police Department and with other organizations that -- or entities that you deal with in trying to do your job, has there been any discussion at all as to the extension of the live-stop car confiscation program citywide so that the ultimate vision of anyone driving in the City of Philadelphia unlicensed in a car where the tags do not match the registration or the car is not registered, that anywhere you're stopped, that car will be impounded in order to send a message to the 50,000 or so scoff laws who basically laugh at everybody else who pays their insurance rates, that they're just not going to abide by the law. I mean, we've been a frustrated because it's been a pilot program in, I guess, South Philadelphia and in eastern Center City for a 100 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET number of years now, and I think people around the City would look for this relief.

It is a subject that Judge Perri and I will be addressing tomorrow morning at a.m., in fact. 7

Would you be 8 interested in having some discussion with members 9 of Council, either the Public Safety Committee or 10 Streets and Services to try to figure out where we go from here?

Yes, we would be very interested in that, and I will discuss that with Judge Perri tomorrow because he would be equally interest.

Thank you very much. Miss Davis, the Five-Year Plan shows that the Administration is slowing down the reduction of wage and business privilege tax. Reductions projected over the next five years are less than half the reductions of the past five years. Could you explain the policy behind that decision and how you think it's going to 101 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET affect our ability to retain both jobs and residents?

Actually, we just carried forward the reductions that were included in the plans over the last couple of years. We didn't change --

It looks substantially --

We didn't change any of the out-year numbers from last year's plan.

Well, on , for the Five-Year Plan.

Actually, if you looked at last year's plan and the year from the year before, this is how it's been laid out.

But it is slowing down.

I guess we really didn't even touch it so there wasn't a conscious decision to slow down the rates in this plan, if that's what you're looking --

If you look at the proposed annual tax savings to the average resident in Philadelphia paying the wage tax, I 102 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET think it's been reported that it's about ten bucks a year you'd be saving in that particular wage reduction effort. Considering the loss of close to 200,000 residents over that period of time we've been reducing the wage tax, does it make any sense to reevaluate this policy and to perhaps accelerate instead of allow this to continue to slow?

We've actually started a process of looking at our tax rate structure to see whether there's a better approach. So yes, yes, it does.

And that would be projected to be implemented in next year's budget process?

That would be our hope, yes.

Okay. In Miss Davis's testimony, third paragraph, it says, "Other large elements of the finance budget include legal services and witness fees." Could you explain what the legal services are?

Legal services are the 103 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET payments to the Defender Association, Community Services and Support Center for Child Advocates.

Does any member of the Finance Department or Budget Department monitor the expenditures of the Defender Association as it relates to providing legal counsel to indigent defendants?

We get monthly budget reporting from the Defender Association.

One of the reports that I've received from both bail commissioners and from Municipal Court judges is that individuals many times arrested in drug cases will pay cash for their bail. More than a 1,000, 2,000, $3,000 cash bail, and then they show up in front of a Municipal Court judge for preliminary hearing with a public defender. It seems that if you have the or grand to get out of the jail, you might have the 2 or 3 grand to hire a lawyer. And what I'm wondering is, because drug cases and people involved in that activity do make a lot of money before they're arrested from time to time, are we stretching our defender system to 104 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the point where people who could actually afford to pay for their own lawyer, because they don't have a job of record, because they can't show their income because the income gained from illicit means, that we are, in fact, defending people on the public taxpayer back who can afford to buy own lawyer? And what's the process that the Defender Association goes through to determine whether or not the fact that this defendant is in fact indigent? And would you believe, just from an anecdotal that a guy could put up 2,000, $3,000 to get out, why couldn't he use that 2 or 3,000 to hire his own lawyer?

I think the assignments are actually done through the court system I'm not sure the entire process they go through.

Well, I'm going to raise this issue with the Defender, but I would appreciate, since it's our money --

Right, it's probably worth raising with the First Judicial District too, since I think they do the screening.

Well, I don't know 105 2/13/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET if there's any screening. That's part of the problem.

Well, yeah. That's. . .

But if you could have somebody take a look at, you know, who's responsible for the expenditure of this money and where it goes and what process there is or isn't, it would be helpful from our end. I mean --

And we actually looked at this. A couple years ago, we had an outside accounting firm look at the Defender's costs, and one of the things they looked at was that process. And I'm just not remembering what exactly they found, but we can get you information on that.

I would appreciate a report back. Thank you.