COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC PROPERTY AND PUBLIC WORKS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Thursday, November 15, 2007 9:00 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE, CHAIR COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO BILL 070937 - An ordinance amending Chapter 15-200 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Fairmount Park," by adding 5100 Pennypack Street to the areas under the care and jurisdiction of the Fairmount Park Commission, under certain terms and conditions. - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good morning. This is the Committee on Public Property and Public Works. We have a quorum present: Councilman Rizzo, Councilman Greenlee, Councilwoman Krajewski and Councilwoman Miller. Will the Clerk please read the title of the bill.
Bill No. 070937, an ordinance amending Chapter 15-200 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Fairmount Park," by adding 5100 Pennypack Street to the areas under the care and jurisdiction of the Fairmount Park Commission, under certain terms and conditions.
Thank you. We understand that the sponsor of the bill, Councilwoman Krajewski, has a brief statement, but her voice is somewhat challenged today, so we're going to ask her legislative assistant to please read into the record her statement.
"Good morning, 3 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 ladies and gentlemen and members of the Committee on Public Property. I appreciate you taking the time out of your hectic Thursday morning schedule to allow for an opportunity for this bill to be heard. I will be brief. "Bill No. 070937 was introduced by myself and Councilman O'Neill and was sponsored by my colleagues, Councilmen Kenney, Kelly and Rizzo. "At the heart of this issue is the fate of the Holmesburg Gun Club, an institution which has been leasing a parcel of land located at 5100 Pennypack Street from the City of Philadelphia for over 70 years. The Gun Club currently has over 1,300 active members. The Club was notified in August by the Public Property Commissioner, in a letter dated August 1, 2007, that their lease was being terminated and that the Gun Club would need to vacate the premises no 24 later than December 31, 2007. Gun Club officials were also informed that, as 4 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 stated by the lease, all buildings erected on the property, gun ranges, clubhouses, et cetera, would revert back to City ownership. "Our Council offices, along with select Gun Club members, the Managing Director's Office, Public Property and the Prisons Commissioner, have held numerous meetings over the last few months in an attempt to craft a shared-use agreement that was acceptable to all parties involved with this transition. Many thought a verbal agreement had been reached back in early October. Unfortunately, transferring what was agreed verbally to paper, a one-page document at most, took almost five weeks to circulate? "Since the Managing Director's Office has been steadfast in its refusal to extend the lease by the five weeks lost, a viable option must be explored to ensure that the City continues to negotiate in good faith. While 5 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 transferring this parcel to the jurisdiction of the Fairmount Park Commission will not stop the termination of the lease, it may give the members of the Gun Club some hope for more favorable lease terms through the Fairmount Park Commission. "The Holmesburg Gun Club serves a tremendous purpose. It's the only club of its kind within City limits, and has been operating without any problems for over 70 years. The Gun Club's good works in the community are too numerous to mention here. Its membership boasts of almost 900 City residents, and the members have been negotiating in good faith throughout the process. "At this point, Gun Club members, my co-sponsors and I feel as though the best course of action, barring some kind of mutual agreement, is to transfer this parcel of property to the jurisdiction of the Fairmount Park Commission in the hope that a much more 6 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 favorable lease can be drafted once the new Administration is in place. "I appreciate your time and hope that I can count on my colleagues' support for this measure. "Thank you."
Thank you. Is there a representative from the Administration present? Good morning.
Good morning, Committee Chairman Clarke and members of the Committee on Public Property and Public Works. My name is Michael Resnick and I'm the Chief of Staff at the Philadelphia Prison System, a position I've held for the past five years. With me today is Captain Frederick Abello. He's the Director of the Prisons Training Academy. Together we represent the Prison Systems' position regarding the 7 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 Councilwoman's motion to transfer the property at 5100 Pennypack, commonly referred to as the Holmesburg Gun Club, to the Fairmount Park Commission. Unfortunately, Commissioner King wasn't able to be here this morning and he apologizes. The Prison System opposes the motion quite simply because we need a gun range. And before I begin, my testimony has been distributed, so I'll just read salient portions of it and try to be brief. Our interests do not coincide with the casual pattern of use that the Holmesburg Fish and Game Protective Association has suggested. The City would incur unwarranted liability and needless costs if it were to grant that organization or the general public access to the expensive and, at times, dangerous weapons that would be stored at that facility. We believe that the training 8 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 needs of our 2,200 employees trump the recreational needs of this exclusive club. The Prison System needs a gun range in order to properly train the correctional officers who are asked to take responsibility for inmates outside the prison walls. I will describe below what that entails, but the basic needs should be apparent to everyone. At any time on any day we may turn to any correctional officer on duty and ask him or her to sign out a weapon and escort an inmate on a clinic trip or any other business in the community. That officer has to be properly trained and prepared to responsibly manage this basic duty. It is a requirement of the job that they do so. As administrators we must give our staff the tools and the training they are required to do their job. If we fail to give them that training, we are legally liable for any misuse of that 9 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 weapon that may occur. And when I say "we," I mean the City of Philadelphia. And I know I don't have to remind you that the risk of legal liability is secondary to the unnecessary risk of personal injury that might occur to staff, to an inmate or to a member of the general public in the event that a weapon is used improperly. The Prison System has been asked to find an accommodation with the Holmesburg Fish and Game Protective Association that would allow their members, including approximately 900 who are Philadelphia residents and several hundred who are not, to continue to use this facility. We could no more allow that than the police would allow a gun club off hours access to their weapons training center. And I don't expect the sportsmen who have had exclusive use of this piece of City-owned land for the past 80-some years to be concerned about the welfare of our correctional officers, 10 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 but I would hope that the point is not lost here that approximately 2,200 PPS employees live in this City, pay their taxes, work in a dangerous job to protect public safety. This may sound like self-interest on our part, and I beg you to consider that it isn't my interest, Commissioner King's interest or Captain Abello's interest. The use of this property for the training of correctional officers is in the interest of the 2,200 correctional employees who work here. It's in the public interest to have these officers properly trained, and to the extent that the Councilmembers share the responsibility for public safety, I would think it's in your interest as well. Our officers live in your Council districts, they vote in elections, they pay taxes, and they deserve your support.
In this instance, your support means according them access to training facilities where they may be 11 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 properly and legally qualified to discharge the duties we are asking them to do. Weapons training is an integral part of our Prison Academy's 11-week course for pre-service training and a significant part of the 40 hours of in-service training that is conducted annually for every officer and supervisor. It isn't all guns. Most of the training is classroom exercises that take place in the Prisons Academy. And the Training Academy that we currently use was the former residence of the warden of Holmesburg Prison. It is located in a cut-out in the prison wall on Torresdale Avenue, and we utilize every square foot of that building, including the basement, the attic, and it's not big enough. We need today increased facilities for training. Under sole PPS use, the property at 5100 Pennypack offers opportunities for increased utilization. 12 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 Courses in defensive tactics and training of correctional emergency response team, which presently occur in the driveway in front of Holmesburg Prison, can make effective use of this property to the benefit of our staff and the public. As I said before, Council has my full testimony. That would conclude my remarks.
Thank you. I may have missed a part of your testimony. Where do the officers currently train?
Our Training Academy, as I previously said, is the old warden's residence in front of Holmesburg Prison.
In front of Holmesburg Prison. There's a building there that used to be the warden's residence, and that's now used as our Training Academy. 13 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 There are how many classrooms? CAPTAIN ABELLO: Four classrooms.
The gun range has an indoor range and there's a classroom there. There is what is currently being used as a clubhouse, which could be used as a large classroom, but were divided into several classrooms. It's large enough to conduct defensive tactics training and some of the other defensive training that goes on at the Academy that's necessary for our officers.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm just looking at part of your statement where you state, "Our officers live in your Council districts, 14 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 they vote," that part of your speech. Well, also the Gun Club members do also. They pay taxes and they live in the districts as well.
So they have a right to be here as well and to -- the need for the Gun Club is very important to them. We never had a problem. But my question to you is, how come the Prison Commissioner no longer feels that a shared use of this agreement is feasible? That seems to be the case in your testimony.
I don't believe we don't think that a shared use is feasible, Councilwoman. I think if we -- in a perfect world, we would like to have exclusive use of a tactical training facility for our officers who need to have this training and need to have a training facility. Under current circumstance, I believe we are close to reaching an accommodation with the Gun 15 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 Club.
Well, then why were we negotiating in good faith when the Commissioner or the City never would give in to the Gun Club members?
Well, why were we meeting week after week? And I've been in touch with the Prison Commissioner. They did come to an agreement and it took five weeks or so for you to come up with something, and it's all in vain.
No. I don't believe it's in vain, Councilwoman. As I said, in a perfect world, we would like to have exclusive use. However, we were approached and asked to come to an accommodation, I believe, by yourself and Councilman O'Neill, and we've done that. We've met with the Gun Club. We've met with their members. We've met several 16 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 times. We are very close to reaching an accommodation. I don't believe that the delay in coming up with an agreement was any fault of the Prison System's or any fault of the Gun Club.
Well, five weeks. Now, I understand that the Prison Commissioner knew about this a long time ago. Then why are we waiting until the last minute, and how come we never received the lease?
Councilwoman, we don't draft agreements. That's what the Law Department does.
Well, then I would think it would be his job to push it if he's interested in this.
We did push it. We've contacted the individuals at the Law Department who are responsible. I know the Commissioner had conversations with the City Solicitor himself and the attorney who was working on this, and apparently I think we were told that they 17 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 had other pressing matters.
Well, I understand in your statement that the Commissioner knew about this over five years ago, that there was a need. Why did he wait until now, with 45 days left in the Administration, to terminate this lease?
No. The lease -- I believe notice was given back in July earlier this year and I think what had happened was when the Commissioner --
I'm saying they knew about this lease five years ago.
I don't think that anything had to do with the timing, Councilwoman.
The lease is up 18 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 December 31st, right.
And I believe what happened was, when the Commissioner took office, he realized we were not able to train our officers according to the standards, given the lack of adequate training facilities, and we were able, with the aid of the Police Department, to train our officers and have them certified annually. However, we have over 2,000 correctional officers and supervisors that need to be trained on an annual basis, need to qualify with their weapons. Our need and given the need of the Police Department, who I believe have close to maybe 9,000 officers, was too great for their training facility. So we tried to come to an accommodation with them. We were unable to. Then we were given the opportunity to come to the Holmesburg Gun Club, City-owned land.
Excuse me. Would you explain to this Committee 19 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 when you say you tried to come to an agreement, what was that agreement?
The agreement with the Gun Club and with our offices.
Well, when you had asked, I believe it was yourself and Councilman O'Neill, had asked the Commissioner to come to an agreement, we immediately had conversations with members of the Holmesburg Gun Club, and we've continued to meet with them. In fact, we've met with them as recently as this past Tuesday. We've hammered out an agreement in terms of usage, responsibilities, maintenance, insurance. I believe the only issue remaining is the fee that's going to be paid by the Gun Club. Now --
And what was that fee? 20 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937
I believe the fee that we told them was approximately $4,300 a month, and that's the cost that the City would incur to have a correctional officer stationed in that facility to maintain security and watch over the equipment that's going to be there.
And when was the hours that the Gun Club was allowed to use?
The hours of the Gun Club were going to be there -- and I believe that you and Councilman O'Neill asked us to accommodate them nights and weekends. So I believe the agreement called for Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday evenings from 5:00 until 11:00 or midnight, every Sunday of the month from 6:00 until midnight. And I believe after meeting on Tuesday, we agreed to one Saturday a month for the Prison System to use and the remaining Saturdays of every month from 6:00 in the morning 21 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 until, I think, 12:00 noon for the Gun Club to use, because they told us they would like to have Saturday mornings. So I believe we've reached an accommodation with the Gun Club with respect to all of the issues, except the fee, and the fee is what it would cost the City to station an officer there to watch the facility and watch the equipment. We could not, and I think it would be irresponsible of us, to leave our equipment sitting in that facility without a correctional officer watching it, and that's what it would cost to have a correctional officer stationed there to maintain security and watch our equipment, City equipment, City weapons, for the hours that we're affording the Gun Club.
So you would need an adjustment in your budget to accommodate the placement of an officer?
Well, we 22 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 discussed that, and with all due respect, Councilman, I think that it's the appearance of the City and taxpayer funds being spent to allow a private organization to have activities at this City-owned property. So, I mean, Council can appropriate --
I think it's both, Councilman. I mean, it is the appearance that we would be spending taxpayer money to have a correctional officer stationed so a private club can have activity on City land. And I believe that was probably the sticking point. One of the issues that we did explain to the Gun Club was --
Councilwoman, let me follow up on that question. 23 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 So we are in no way throughout the publicly owned property in the City of Philadelphia where we stage an officer or some other municipal employee to accommodate the needs of private use?
As far as I'm aware, Councilman, there's no other use like this.
Well, I'm not talking about this particular use. I'm saying if somebody wants to utilize the Fairmount Park, as an example, or facility, don't we place a public employee at that location during the course of the event or the activity?
Sure. And that's the function of Fairmount Park, and that's for the benefit of --
It's not unprecedented where we have municipal 24 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 employees at a location when it's being used by a private entity. Because you're talking about the appearance of it and I'm referencing the appearance. It's not like we don't do that.
Right. In your example for Fairmount Park, I mean, we do have public events that take place, and City employees obviously work for the benefit of the public.
If you're saying it's a budget issue, then we need to talk about that, but having the appearance of having a public employee secure a facility during private use, I mean, we do that all the time. I mean, we even do that in City Hall. When we 25 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 rent out Conversation Hall for an evening event, we have police officers stationed there. So that's not an issue. So if the issue is strictly a budgetary issue, then we need to deal with that. Would you agree?
If that's the feeling of the Committee, then I guess I would agree that it would be a budgetary issue.
Okay. Thank you. I think Councilman Greenlee actually had a question and then Councilman Kenney, then I think Councilman Rizzo, and I know Councilwoman Miller and I know Councilwoman Krajewski.
Just from a procedural standpoint, I just want to state, I think it's inappropriate to have uniformed employees debating with the Councilmember when the Public Property Commissioner is sitting there and that's where the decision should have been made. 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 I mean, from my perspective, it's not their responsibility to fight for space for them to train. There are other buildings in the City. They could have built a building to train these people. Why is that the -- with all due respect to the Commissioner, we picked on you before and it's not personal. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: That's all right.
But I don't think it's appropriate to have Councilwoman Krajewski debating with a uniformed officer of the City of Philadelphia when the Public Property Commissioner should have solved this problem five years ago. We knew the facility was needed. We should have either acquired a building or built one. Now we're going to pit one group against another, throwing one group out that's been there for 80 years, and we have to make a decision on what's better for the uniformed employees, who we want to 27 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 support, or these citizens, when you should have built the damn building in the first place. I mean, we should never have come to this situation.
And, Councilman, that's a very valid point. Is there anyone here from the Law Department, since they seem to be at the center of the storm in terms of the negotiations? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: No. 14
No Law Department? Okay. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Good morning, members of the Committee and Chairman Clarke. Joan Schlotterbeck, Public Property Commissioner. I think there's a few points that need to be cleared up here for all. Number one, it's a 20-year term, which goes to year 2018, but it's year to year. So at the discretion of 28 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 the City, we can indeed terminate. So for someone to think that there was a five-year window there. But five years ago I can tell you that the Commissioner did express his concern not only to me but other senior members of the Administration about the lack of training facilities. That is a fact.
And the only place to do it is here? The only place in the City of Philadelphia is here? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: No, no. I don't know that that's a statement that would be correct either.
Then why are we here? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Okay. So we didn't have the funding to create a new facility. We didn't. So they came before us and they said, Commissioner Schlotterbeck, what do you think about terminating that lease? So we sent the letter out. I 29 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 did speak directly with the members of the Gun Club more than -- I mean, I think about ten of them.
Commissioner, we just borrowed $150 million for cultural institutions of the City, which is a wonderful thing. Don't tell me we didn't have $7 million or $10 million to build a building. It's just not believable. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Well, I'm not going to sit here and suggest that I make decisions at that level. I would not --
But you're here representing the Administration, so you're the only person we have to deal with at this point. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: That's a fact. But, I mean, I've been told for the needs that I came before them with, which would be something for training for Prisons, there wasn't funding available. So for five years, 30 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 they --
Do you know how many properties there are at the Navy Base? It's about 1,100 acres. There are empty buildings all over that place. There's fields to train. There's all kinds of stuff. I mean, I can't believe no one looked at anything else. It's the Gun Club and it's the only alternative. It's ridiculous, because now what you're doing is pitting one group of citizens against one group of employees, and that's not fair to them or to us. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Actually, what they did in the interim was, they, being the Administration at the time, they made a decision over, I think it's, five years ago. I think it's -- they made a decision to put $100,000 into the facility. So they used capital dollars to improve the facility so that it can be jointly shared by the Prisons and by the Gun Club.
But I agree 31 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 with this officer here, it's not appropriate to share the space. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: It is not.
It's not. So why put one group out when you can build another facility for somebody else? I mean, to me it makes -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: I totally agree with your philosophy. I know that we own plenty of property. I know that we own land. It was a decision that was not --
You have the Frankford Arsenal. You have the Navy Base. You have lots of places. It just makes no sense.
It doesn't. Everything on State Road, we cooperated with with the Prisons. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: No. There's no question. I mean, I think basically how we got here was a need. At the time, there was a support 32 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 to go forward with the termination. Then we were asked, both Commissioners, to cooperate and to see if we couldn't mutually agree to a shared use. And then we did take many meetings and it did take quite a bit of time to get where we are today, but I think we're very, very close. And there is a charge -- another piece of clarity, the current cost for the Gun Club is approximately 8,000 for rent and they pay about $12,000, according to them, for utilities.
Eight thousand per? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Per year. So they're paying approximately $20,000 currently to use the space. Now, I did math quick and I hope it's right. I think we're looking at about 52,000 based on the yet-to-be-confirmed shared-use approach. So we're looking at a $30,000 increase to them. 33 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 And to your point, one other thing, Councilwoman, we do always require public people to take care of spaces that are ours. You are correct. People do not come into City Hall for free. We charge them. If there's something on an elevator, my security officers' fees are charged back to that person. Yes, Councilwoman.
What is the objection for extending the lease five more weeks? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: There is none.
We're asking for an extension for five more weeks. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: That's fine.
And let the new Administration coming in, let them know exactly what is being done 34 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 here. I can't see not having the extension for five weeks, but we can't seem to get anywhere with that with the Administration or with the Managing Director or whoever we're working with to get an extension. The lease is up the end of December. We're asking for an extension of five weeks. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Well, I think that's something we definitely can consider and ask to get approved, but what we're trying to suggest here today is that we believe and the Chief of Staff here, we both believe that we are very close, and it basically boils down to dollars and cents. So that the Prisons will share the use with the Gun Club and it's a matter of differences in the dollars.
They're not sharing much, Commissioner, believe me. Believe me. They're not sharing much. I'm asking for the 35 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 five-week extension simply because it will give the new Administration time. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Okay.
Councilman Greenlee had a question and I know, Councilman Rizzo, you still have a question, and then Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just very quickly. I think this question may be in order a little bit earlier, but I'm just still slightly confused, because certainly the Chief of Staff's statement was straight out, we're against the Gun Club being there. I mean, that's what the statement said, and I know you described it as the perfect world thing, but certainly in your discussion with Councilwoman Krajewski before this hearing and just now, you say 36 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 you're close. So there seems to be sort of a -- you're contradicting yourself there. I mean, with all due respect. I mean, why not in the statement -- I know this is Commissioner King's statement, but why not say, look, just what you said, in a perfect world we might not want the Gun Club there, but we're negotiating, we think we're close, it's about money? Why not straight say that?
Well, I guess, Councilman, I guess I did say it. In a perfect world, this is what we would like. However, at the request of the Councilpeople, we did sit down and we met in good faith and we met often, and we've hammered out an agreement that I think we're very, very, very close to implementing. As the Commissioner stated, it's just an issue of dollars and cents that we have to come to that agreement and we'll have an agreement, and I don't -- the Commissioner is in agreement to an extension of five weeks. 37 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 I don't know if we'll need that. We submitted to the Gun Club, I believe it was, last night a proposed draft after our meeting on Tuesday evening of all the terms that everybody came to and we're just waiting for the numbers.
I think Councilman Kenney is right. Again, using your term, in the perfect world, maybe we should have built a separate facility a while back, but I know we're here in November now and we got to deal with this, but it just seems like your statement and the reality -- I'm not trying to be critical. I'm just saying it seems to be a little contradictory. But that's okay. I understand what you're saying. Thank you. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: And, Councilman, back to the point, we're here objecting to this bill today, which transfers it to the Fairmount Park. Really our intent has always been to keep it in the Public Property arena, which is 38 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 to say a lease extension, an agreement on how the facility is used going forward. So we're here today objecting to this and hoping that we can settle it and bring it back into Public Property, get the lease, get the terms settled.
Not to elongate, but that's not what the statement says. That's not what Commissioner King's statement says. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: But I wanted to clarify. I think that was exactly his intent.
Thank you. We understand we're going to have two statements read into the record. Please proceed.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm Aaron Finestone. I'm 39 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 on the staff of Councilman O'Neill, and the Councilman has sent the following letter to Councilman Clarke in his capacity as Chair of the Committee. "Dear Councilman Clarke, I am pleased to express my support of Bill 8 070927. This bill would transfer jurisdiction of the property at 5100 Pennypack Street from the City to the Fairmount Park Commission. "Since 1934, the Holmesburg Fish and Game Protective Association has leased this property from the City. With more than 1,400 members, 990 of whom live in Philadelphia, the Association is an irreplaceable asset to our community. "The Association has constructed outdoor and indoor firing ranges, a clubhouse and related facilities, which would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to replicate. "With a steadfast commitment to safety and responsible sportsmanship, the Association sponsors youth activities, 40 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 makes its facilities available to the Boy Scouts for training and provides opportunities for practice and competition for its members. "The City has unilaterally and arbitrarily decided to evict the Association and use the property as a firing range for correction officers. There is no need for such action. Correction officers have been using the facilities for a decade and can continue to do so. "Therefore, I urge the Committee to pass Bill 070927 with a favorable recommendation. "I respectfully request that this letter be made part of the record. "Very truly yours, Brian J. O'Neill, Councilman, 10th District."
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. My name is Joe Gaynor. I'm here representing Holmesburg 41 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 Fish and Game. Holmesburg Fish and Game Sportsman's Association is located between the Police Academy and Water Department waste facility in Northeast Philadelphia. Holmesburg has been on the same site for the past 78 years. The Association is funded through dues and guest fees. Holmesburg does allow walk-in non-members the opportunity to use the ranges for a nominal fee. Holmesburg members see the Association as a custodian trustee of the only safe practical and convenient place for area residents to engage in various firearm sports within the City limits. Association membership stands at approximately 1,400 adult members, 45 junior program participants. Approximately a thousand of our members are Philadelphia City residents. Presently, Holmesburg offers the only opportunity to engage in shotgun sports, as well as rifle and pistol 42 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 practice, within a 60-minute drive for most City residents. Holmesburg also provides both adult and youth safety and firearm instruction that is available nowhere else in the Philadelphia area. Throughout the year, Holmesburg sponsors several events open to the public. These include two open house days, where we provide, to any interested adults, an introduction to the various shooting disciplines and the opportunity to join the Association at a reduced cost. Our one youth field day, where we provide firearms do's and don'ts lecture, a safety lecture and the opportunity to shoot various long guns, rifles, shotguns, muskets, no hand guns, our youth field days are usually attended by 100 to 125 youngsters, many of whom attend as scout troops, Police Athletic League groups, church groups and walk-in area residents. Holmesburg also hosts several scout troops per year for the purpose of fulfilling their marksmanship 43 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 merit badge. Holmesburg has been on the property -- leased the property from the Philadelphia Water Department in the early 1930's. The Association took four or five acres of mud flats and ash dump areas and converted it into several shooting ranges, thus providing a safe area for local sportsmen to practice their marksmanship skills. Over the course of 78 years, Association members have built a clubhouse, indoor range with attached meeting room, two skeet trap ranges, outdoor pistol and hundred yard rifle range, bringing the property to today's present configuration. Throughout the years, we provide range access to the Philadelphia Police Department as well as other law enforcement agencies. Presently, as is written into our lease, we provide Philadelphia Prisons with five-day access to the outdoor pistol range and the indoor meeting room. The Association 44 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 property and buildings are also used by Police K-9 for training and meetings. On August 1st, the City served us with a termination letter giving Holmesburg until December 31st to vacate the premises. With Councilwoman Krajewski's assistance, Holmesburg entered into negotiations with the City Prison Commissioner and representatives from Philadelphia Public Property and City Controller's Office. In attendance on behalf of Holmesburg Fish and Game were representatives of Councilwoman Krajewski's office and Councilman Brian O'Neill's office. Although these negotiations have been cordial and polite, they have not exactly been fruitful inasmuch as the City is refusing to grant us a lease, and what has been offered thus far in the way of a use agreement does not in any way satisfy our requirements for remaining a viable organization.
45 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 Association members feel that we have provided a service to the Philadelphia taxpayers by providing firing ranges and meeting room facilities to the Philadelphia Corrections Department since 1999, at no cost to the City. Corrections Department personnel need only show up, shoot and go home. They have, since 1999, enjoyed the use of pistol range and Association facilities without the burden of maintaining the property. The Association, at membership expense, maintains the ranges, cuts the grass, removes the snow, provides heat and electricity, even scrubs the restrooms, at no cost to the Corrections Department or any other City agency. And I believe you will be hardpressed to find any other City tenant that is so accommodating. In this packet that was provided, there are several attachments, a copy of the lease, copy of the termination letters. We've been in 46 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 contact with Councilwoman Krajewski in an attempt to resolve this. Any assistance you could offer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Any other witnesses on this particular bill? (No response.)
There being none, this concludes the public hearing. We will now go into the public meeting. Councilwoman Krajewski, can I please ask for a motion on Bill No. 19 070937.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill 22 070937 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation, with the rules of Council suspended so as to permit first reading at the next session 47 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 of Council. (Duly seconded.)
The ayes have it. Bill No. 070937 will be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation, with a rules suspension as to allow reading at the next session of Council. This concludes the public meeting on Public Property and Public Works. Thank you all very much. Councilwoman Krajewski.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to invite the members of this Committee to have a tour at the Holmesburg Gun Club after the holiday of 48 11/15/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070937 Thanksgiving anyway, and I'll be in touch with the Committee.
To the Commissioner, I just want to say that there is a request, as you just heard, a formal request by members of the Committee to go to the facility and for themselves to get a sense of what's going on. So we'll be in contact with you.
And if I could invite the members of the Committee to come to the Prison Systems training facility so you can see where our officers train.
Absolutely. I think that's appropriate. Thank you so much. (Committee on Public Property and Public Works adjourned at 9:35 a.m.) - - - 49 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on November 15, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)