We have not looked at that question in relation to the pending legislation. We will do that, and I can give you a response to that question as well.
Are there any other questions? (No further questions.) Commissioner? COMMISSIONER MOY: My name is Lawrence Moy. I'm the Commissioner of Streets. Councilman Clarke asked us to address some activities in the abandoned cars and how they affect our mission and how they affect our operation. And we can be brief there. 102 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 The first issue is traffic. For the most part, when the abandoned cars are in a traffic lane there, we get very good action by the police, and it's generally not a long-lasting problem. I think most of the abandoned cars, as we know, are in the parking lanes. The second area, those, is in terms of our operations in resurfacing. As you're maybe aware, we have a milling operation that precedes resurfacing, generally. We're confronted at that time with frequently removing any cars that are not moved in order to mill and work on the streets. We usually have a vendor tow truck operator that we pay in order to relocate, simply to relocate the cars. There are, on occasion, abandoned cars. It does constitute a problem for us in that way. We have to relocate abandoned cars, and it certainly is troublesome. The third area, though, is in Sanitation, and we've talked about the clean-out. Sanitation becomes involved with abandoned vehicles when we're requested to clean them prior to towing. This request usually comes from either the police or elected officials. 103 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 And just as some kind of a scale here, during the period from October the 12th, 1999 to December the 2nd, 1999, the Sanitation Division cleaned 164 abandoned autos, and 128 of them were within the Operation Sunrise area. So only 36 -- the balance of the 36 was done within the rest of the City. So Councilman Rizzo's talked about the way we go at it, and we try to do just in time cleaning with the limited resources that we have. I would agree that if we go with this proposal that Commissioner Applebaum talked about, we'd be, you know, happy to talk about a policy of whether or not the Streets Department should continue this or whether, in fact, a salver should be addressing it. I agree that someone should be addressing it, though.
But if you address it, you would need more money, more personnel. COMMISSIONER MOY: That's the question, and I think that would be -- I think there's a series of issues that have raised today that need to be addressed by the new administration about broadening -- 104 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615
But in order to help the new administration, and I know that we have very short time, because today is, what, the 3rd or the 2nd. Can you give this committee, in a very short form, what type of needs -- what the needs would be of the Sanitation Department to do something, as Councilman Clarke and I have and Councilman Rizzo have stated, so that these abandoned cars do not become garbage dumps, so that the Sanitation Department also takes into consideration, as they're going around cleaning and picking up garbage that they would have to clean these cars and so on. What would it take, what would be the necessary personnel or monies and so on that would be needed in order to implement a project such as this? COMMISSIONER MOY: We would probably have to do some kind of an analysis. But based upon some of those numbers that you can see in the small pocket of Sunrise there, we could do some gross estimates.
Could you 105 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 extrapolate from that? COMMISSIONER MOY: We would have to do some analyzing; we couldn't do it here today.
Not to do it today, but could you -- because we're trying to see how we set a framework for functioning in the next administration so that we can -- so that, you know, we're not sitting here four years from now, talking about this. COMMISSIONER MOY: Right.
And we want to be able to end the abandoned-car problem right now. We want to at least set the framework for that, if possible. COMMISSIONER MOY: Well, we will get you an analysis as soon as we can here and back to you.
Commissioner Moy and Commissioner Applebaum, we described the worse-case scenario, but just the day-to-day operation of removing abandoned vehicles, a vehicle is parked for two months, debris is under the vehicle, parts of the vehicle is there as the 106 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 salver tows it away. I have watched salvers work, and what they leave behind is whatever is under the car. They leave behind whatever parts fall from that car in the process of loading it on. And I know that I've called the Commissioner's office a dozen times just to send a crew out to clean an area where a car was removed from. So, again, in this contract or this formalization, that possibly that salver should have to sweep up behind them and not leave a -- they don't take tires, which is a perfect example. If there's a tire laying underneath that vehicle or in proximity of the vehicle, when they tow that car away, that trash pile s left there until eventually, the Streets Department cleans that block. And so, again, some real, real thought has to go into this thing to leave the community and neighborhood in a clean condition after that vehicle is removed. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Well, I would recommend that the specifications of this document include that type of information. And it is not difficult for a salver to do that 'cause when they 107 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 go to an accident scene and they're picking up a car to take it to a auto body shop for body repairs, they sure sit there with their brooms and whatever and they clean the streets up real good. So they would, sure, have the same responsibility to pick up an abandoned car, to leave the street in the same condition that they leave it when they pick up cars for accidents.
Well, they certainly don't do it now. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: That's for sure, but if it's a requirement and if they want to be a part of that contract, they'll have to do it.
That's great. I'm glad we'll dial in on this to make the system work as well as possible. Thank you. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Absolutely.
Thank you all. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Thank you very much.
And we can depend on those things, right? Yes. Thank you. Next is the delegation from EPOP. 108 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 (EPOP witnesses come forward.)
Thank you for your patience. Well, we've been dealing with this now for quite a long time. We've had hearings before, this is another hearing on it. Hopefully, this will bring us to a solution, as we've been saying. Because today is not to talk about the problem, but to talk about the solutions. And I like what you have proposed and sort of read it and the steps that are needed, and a lot of the suggestions and questions that I have been putting forward have come from the hearings that we had before and from the materials that EPOP has given my office and myself. As you have seen the trend that we have asked the Commissioner and the City departments, you can see where Councilman Clarke is going, or I'm going, with this, and the concerns of Councilman, Kenney and DiCicco and myself, we want this committee to really put forward a set of recommendations to the next mayor that will be implemented and funded, 'cause we need the funding, and funded. So could you identify yourself for the 109 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 record. Father, are you going to begin?
My name is Father John Halloran (ph.). I'm the Pastor of Incarnation Church, in Olney.
My name is Janet Torres, and I come from Christ of St. Andrews Church, and I'm a member from EPOP.
My name is Carmen Maria Lebron, and I am a member of Incarnation of (unintelligible) and EPOP.
Good morning. My name is Helen Brown. I'm the community organizer for Project H.O.M.E.
Good morning. Vicki Thompson, and I'm the assistant to the community director.
Who's going to begin? And are you all going to testify? Okay. Go ahead. Father?
As I said, Incarnation is my parish. It's in the Olney section of Philadelphia, and Incarnation is one of the member institutions of EPOP, which, I'm sure, you all know of by now, the Eastern Philadelphia 110 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 Organizing Project. We are organizations, 20 4 institutions of churches, schools, community 5 organizations. And basically what we do is, we 6 work together, A, to develop leadership within our 7 own institutions; and, B, in order to use that 8 leadership to effect changes in our neighborhood. 9 And among all of us, we probably represent upwards 10 of 20,000 families, from Kensington, Port 11 Richmond, Hunting Park, and the Olney area of the 12 City. 13 The reason we are here is that one of 14 the things that we do as we organize ourselves is, 15 we conduct what we call "listening campaigns." 16 And in our listening campaigns, all of the people 17 in our organizations and in our institutions get 18 to voice their hopes and their frustrations, their 19 anger and their relief about whatever happens to 20 be going on in their area. And after we heard so many voices in these listening campaigns, we decided that there were certain issues that repeated themselves over and over again. And based on those issues, we came up with a Neighborhoods First platform, which 111 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 we wanted to use to influence the mayoral election. And so what we did was, in March, we called the six candidates together who were running for mayor, and we all met together at the Franklin Plaza, and we presented them with our platform and asked them if they would or would not support our agenda for the neighborhoods. And then after that, when the field narrowed down to Mr. Street and Mr. Katz, both of them came back to us, and at Incarnation Church, they both listened to our concerns again, and we again tried to influence the next mayor's agenda for what's going to happen in our neighborhoods. We think that this issue of abandoned cars is an ideal issue that fits into one of our concerns in our platform, and that concern is coordinated City services. We've all heard testimony about how frustrating it is to get different City departments to cooperate. For example, Mr. Rizzo just mentioned the frustration about whether it's a Sanitation issue or if it's a Streets issue or if it's a Licenses and Inspections issue. So many of our frustrations 112 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 come from the fact that they don't cooperate with each other or communicate or even agree with each other. In order to effect the wider city in terms of this issue, abandoned vehicles, we think, is the issue in order to work on that part of our platform. And it all depends on who will hold our city officials accountable, who will hold what department accountable. And we do think, we at EPOP believe that this is a decision point, where if we can effect this issue, we really can move forward on improving City services, not just around abandoned cars, but if we do this one right, we believe that City services can be improved for our people in a lot of different areas.
Father, the job of holding City agencies accountable, and this issue would fall on the City Council, and specifically on this committee. So they have to do their job and we have to do our job of being able to monitor.
We will lend our voices to your job to make sure that it's done 113 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 well.
Right. And that's why we began hearings on abandoned cars a year ago, so that we could begin. Because we've had hearings on abandoned cars, let me tell you, over the years many times. And the frustration has been that ability to coordinate and hold the administration and the departments accountable. And the inability, really, the inability of the Police Department from doing -- because I don't believe that they are structured and organized, and they should not be asked to do this job personally, that's my personal belief. The Police Department should fight crime; some other agency should remove vehicles.
Okay. Good morning. Again, I introduce myself. My name is Carmen Maria Lebron, and I am a member of the Incarnation of our Lord Parish since 1969, and I'm presently a part of the Eastern Philadelphia Organizing Project. I am from the Olney section of Philadelphia and I have worked in the North Philadelphia area for over 20 years, 25th District. 114 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 Throughout the last years, I've seen my neighborhood and other neighborhoods around me deteriorating, with the experiences of personally witnessing the abandoned homes and the vehicles. I've experienced up to abandoned vehicles in a 7 2-block stretch on Tabor Road, a victim of a chop 8 shop that was closing down, and the cars were 9 moving out into the streets. 10 I begin to wonder, when we host the 11 Republican convention here in Philadelphia next summer, do we want the Republicans to come in -- we're looking forward to receiving over 10,000 people -- (Brief interruption.) (Power outage.) (Proceedings resume.)
Okay, I want to go back to the fact that I've experienced up to 11 abandoned vehicles in a 2-block stretch onto Tabor Road. I feel this to be a disgrace. And I was mentioning the fact that when the Republican Convention comes to Philadelphia, do we want them to see the 115 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 conditions of our streets? Through my involvement with the EPOP, I have been a part of a research team looking at the abandoned-car issues. We represent the hundreds of community residents, as Father mentioned, community organizations, abandoned vehicle officers from a variety of various police districts, police captains, City officials, including the Police Commissioner, and Mr. Dwight Evans. We have also looked at how other cities have identified and have resolved the issue. In our research, we have learned that there is a different way to approach the abandoned-vehicle problem, and I want to share this with you. We feel that the City of Philadelphia needs to create an office for abandoned vehicles, with the sole responsibility of getting these cars off the streets, whether or not the City department does it or if the Police Department does it, but we need someone who works exclusively just with the issue of abandoned auto vehicles. We think that there's a need to have a hotline established so that people can report 116 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 abandoned cars. Having a hotline will enable the officer or the person on the other end to track cars and for the permanent removal from the streets. We've noted in our particular district that we're removing cars that have been reported on paper, not on computer, not networking, but from other districts, and they're dropped into our district. We feel that the City needs to make a commitment to remove the hazardous vehicles immediately -- and that has been discussed repeatedly here if the City has to use its own tow trucks. We support Councilman Clarke's proposal to have salvers apply to work in specific districts or divisions. Salvers need to be responsible for the removal of all -- and I reiterate -- all vehicles, not just those that they choose to remove, but all vehicles in that particular district. We think that police officers should be responsible for reporting the abandoned vehicles on their beat, and to investigate whether these vehicles are either stolen or have been involved 117 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 in crimes. To summarize, the State changes are good, but not good enough to resolve the problem. The City needs to change how it is presently dealing with the abandoned vehicles. And if I may ask a question. I get up in the morning and I'm walking a block and I see that there's a burnt-out vehicle in front of my home or in the block itself. Why can't I pick up a phone, make a call to anyone, and state the condition of the vehicle, and have that vehicle removed, either within the hours or the 48 14 hours? 15 If other large cities can accomplish 16 this, why can't we, working together and 17 coordinating our services, figure out a way. This 18 is an issue that has been presented for a great 19 length of time before City Council, before 20 community, before other organizations, the State, 21 and it's still not being addressed. Why? 22
Well, you've heard. 23 And one of the commitments that we got today from 24 the City Solicitor is that they're going to move immediately to federal court to have the consent 118 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 decree vacated. And that will take -- that will begin the process. The other aspects are the reasons that you have heard here from City administrators, from the Police Commissioner, from the Procurement, from the Sanitation, and down the line. We need to streamline the process. We need to be able to put a department, we need to be able to assign. The Police Commissioner has said it: they cannot do this job, they cannot. They don't have the resources to be able to do it, and we need to believe, together with the State, to put the resources together. I think the aspect of getting $72 per car is a big step forward. But we need to be able to establish an agency within this City that directly deals with the abandoned-car issue.
And to give the resources to that agency to be able to do that.
Can we commit to a timeframe? Because it seems like ten years ago, we were discussing something and now --
Like we said, I 119 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 don't want to be here discussing this over and over. We go through the same frustration. Remember, we live in the same neighborhoods.
Okay? And we have the same problems. I have abandoned cars -- I had a lot down the block, that you take an abandoned car out of there, and two days later, abandoned cars are there again. Okay? And that's my neighborhood. And so we don't want to be here. I said it. I don't want to be here doing these hearings. Councilman Clarke doesn't want to be here doing these hearings. And that's why we emphasize that we need solutions to the City, to the departments. The Police Commissioner's going to be here in January, he's not going to go anywhere. The Mayor-elect understands the problem because he sat here for the last few years dealing with this problem. We need to put forward -- and, you know, we can only, like Dwight Evans said, they can legislate and then we can legislate, but we cannot implement. That will be the job and the role of 120 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 the Mayor-elect and his commissioners. We are trying to find out what are the legal aspects that would prevent us from establishing this department or putting this job onto somewhere else. You heard the questions that I asked of the City Solicitor and that Councilman Clarke asked the City Solicitor. We're trying to see what would be the impediments, what prevents us from establishing what you're talking about.
I also heard you commenting on the fact of the tow trucks, okay? How does a car with no wheels, burnt out, appear in our community in one day?
Well, we would need the equipment, we would need equipment. Do we do it ourselves? Do we have salvers do it? And what are the responsibilities of those salvers and what is the leverage that we're going to have as a city, the departments that are responsible for that, to make those salvers accountable?
Excuse me, Councilman Angel Ortiz. I live in a community that the schools and day care centers, there's 750 kids on the school and it's 80 kids on a the day care 121 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 centers, all right? I collect and I write signatures (sic) of cars that have been abandoned. If I could do it, and I go around and get signatures of abandoned vehicles and I help and I give them to the officers, and I'm one of the community that works in that and I give them to the persons and I write 'em down, and I'm helping the Councilpeople -- I mean, the 25th District, for them to take them cars out -- could I say this in Spanish? Because -- (Ms. Torres and Councilman Ortiz converse in Spanish.)
And I work very hard, very hard, Angel. I work very hard to get my community very clean.
She expressed the frustration of why she is a volunteer, a community resident that does not get a City salary, and she's out there doing the work of City employees.
That she goes out and lists and describes the cars and then reports them to the police precinct, and that these cars are right next to a day care center, right? These 122 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 cars are next to 80 and 200 kids that --
That go into the schools. And why, if she can do that, if she does that, why is it that people who get paid to do that job are not doing the job? And that's why -- that's the questions we've asked, that's the question we asked a year ago from the Commissioner, seven months ago from the Commissioner, and that's the question we asked the Commissioner today. And what we're trying to do is -- (Councilman Ortiz and Ms. Torres resume conversation in Spanish.)
But, you see, them people that they're not doing their jobs, they should be -- they don't do their work at all. We've been here six months, we came here six ago. They should not get hired then. (Councilman Ortiz and Ms. Torres resume conversation in Spanish.)
I am very upset, because we came here six months ago and -- (Councilman Ortiz and Ms. Torres resume 123 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 conversation in Spanish.)
I'm sorry that you guys are not -- but I will translate it at one point. (Councilman Ortiz and Ms. Torres resume conversation in Spanish.)
We've had police commissioners that have not functioned, that have not put a priority on this. And the point is that this has not been a priority of the Police Department, okay? This has not been a priority of the Police Department. Because the Commissioner said -- (Councilman Ortiz and Ms. Torres resume conversation in Spanish.)
So the priority is not the cars. (Councilman Ortiz and Ms. Torres resume conversation in Spanish.)
So what we're doing here, whether you believe it or not, this today is 124 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 progress. Because we are saying and we are committing ourselves, okay? Because what you've got to hear is a commitment. We're not going anywhere. We'll be back here in January, and what we're saying is, we want a set of recommendations, like you're giving us recommendations. Before this Council leaves on the 18th, we will approve a set of recommendations in City Council, the whole Council, that will be -- that will set the direction and the job that we have to do in January with the new mayor and the new administration.
But the responsible person, ain't he supposed to be the Mayor that's supposed to be responsible?
But the Mayor is leaving, remember that. We have a new mayor coming in now.
So we hope that he hears your voice, and we will have our plan that we will present to the Mayor, and we will work with him to be able to implement. And we want to get rid of the abandoned 125 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 car issue, too. I want to be able to begin dealing with building houses and jobs and making kids safe, okay? We want to do that, and we need to be able to -- and we are finding out right now, in these hearings, what is it that we need legally. (Councilman Ortiz and Ms. Torres resume conversation in Spanish.)
What we need in terms of resources. (Councilman Ortiz and Ms. Torres resume conversation in Spanish.)
How much is it going to cost? (Councilman Ortiz and Ms. Torres resume conversation in Spanish.)
We asked the City Solicitor what would be the problem with the union with the bargaining contract, the bargaining agreement that we have with the FOP if we decide to go ahead and establish, with the new mayor, a Department of Abandoned Cars.
I figure whatever it takes to get them vehicles out, because I feel that 750 126 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 and 80 kids of the day care center, those are my kids. And I see them kids going up and down the sidewalks every single day because I volunteer in schools, and those are 750 kids that they mines (sic).
Bur right here, you see this? These are thousands of kids across the city.
Take notice where the most condensation is, where the most abandoned vehicles are, that's what we represent. Now, take notice up above the Greater Northeast, west, and all those other areas, they don't have the problems.
You're right. It's not right for you to have to go out and write up vehicles. It's not right for the City and us to ask you to be block captains.
Let me say 127 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 something 'cause I want to talk about a broader issue 'cause it's not just about abandoned vehicles; it's about the responsibility that we continue to lay in the laps of people and communities. 'Cause government, we can't do everything, and we continually ask you to do things in your neighborhood, right, that you don't get paid for.
But we ask you to do that. You know, I got a lady sitting over there, two ladies, they run a drill team, right? But they don't get paid for that, you know what I mean? But we ask them to do that, to take care of our kids. And you are right, it's not right for us to continue you to ask you to do these things in these communities while we in government, who get paid to do this, do not respond properly. And what Councilman Ortiz is saying is that we're going to do something about this. What I ask you to do is, we will be having budget hearings starting next year, and I ask the same people here, if you don't see a response to some degree or some movement towards a 128 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 resolution of this issue, you need to come down here to these budget hearings and hold us responsible again. Now, I can't say every one of the people who spoke for the City individually will be there, but their departments will be there. And you need to keep a score card, a score card, and don't let it be every four years 'cause too often people say, Well, I'm going to get 'em when election time comes. That's too long, don't wait for four years. You need to stay on us. You know, and I'm obviously a new Councilmember by saying this, right? But you need to stay on us on a continuous basis.
You need to come down here for these budget hearings and if these things have not been implemented and you don't see some movement, you need step to us. All right? So that's all I ask you, give us a chance. And I think you're going to see some movement.
Okay? Yes, go ahead. 129 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615
Yes. My name is Vicki Thompson, and I am with Project H.O.M.E. The one reason that Councilman Clarke suggested that you keep your score card is because he knows we keep his score card.
Before he became Councilman, we sat down and we talked about these issues. Before he campaigned to become Councilman, we talked about these issues, and I'm glad today to see that he's acting on those issues 'cause he knows we're keeping a score card. I just need about three minutes of your time.
Thank you. I am happy that we have come to the agreement, I believe, that there needs to be a department to handle this problem. I really don't think that it should be totally the Police Department's responsibility for this. However, I do think that they need to have a major part in it. In our particular community, abandoned 130 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 cars -- and I'm sure this is happening all over the City -- abandoned cars are becoming the storage places for drugs, along with the trash and the dead bodies that we talked about. I think salvagers do have a legitimate complaint about not cleaning out a car before they move it. There is just too much along with what's in the car and the germs that it breeds. I think they have a legitimate reason not to want to clean out a car. But we do need the cars removed. And when I say "we," I mean me, myself, and Helen Brown, we work in the community that we live in, and we have done exactly what you have done -- walked the neighborhood and listed every car, written them down, sent them a formal letter, networked with the police captains for the 22nd and 23rd District and expressed all of the abandoned cars and the abandoned houses that are being used for drug havens. And, to our dismay, very few cars get removed until something major happens. And during the time of Operation Sunrise, we seem to have had a major increase in the amount of cars that were brought to our area, 131 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 because, of course, they couldn't get over there to their usual dumping ground. We are not angry about that, that it was switched from one place to another; we're angry that it's happening totally. I think, also, that coordinating services has been a key issue here. If we can do that, we can alleviate a lot of the problems. If we can just get -- like you said, they came out and they cleaned out a car now so that the salvage can move it in a couple of hours, that's fine. But in that process, if something is found in that car, can the Police Department respond in a timely manner too so that the salvager can get that car today, not three days from now. Or is the Police Department going to impound it because of whatever evidence was found in it. And we've come to the agreement that we need equipment. So, again, as expressed about the budget hearings, these things need to be inclusive in that, and we do need to be here to voice that. And like you said, we're asking for the same people here to support us. I don't know if there are salvagers here, but they seem to have taken a big beating. 132 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 I'm not a salvager, but if I was, I wouldn't want to come out and get a car for $15. So I think the $72 incentive is great. I hope the bill passes, but I don't think they need to be the ones responsible for cleaning out a car. (Applause.)
And I don't think they really need to be responsible for cleaning up the major trash that's left behind. Maybe they should be responsible for taking away the tires and scraps of the car.
Let me tell you something. The salvers, they cannot be responsible for cleaning out the cars because, I think, the insurance aspects of it alone would be enormous. I mean, there are many things that are put into those abandoned cars.
Needles that have been used over and over again. And if you are not within the structure the City, just the aspect of insurance would be an enormous, enormous expense for any salver to be able to do. So I don't -- you know, that's why I said it. The City has a 133 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 responsibility here, and we have not -- the Police Department and the structure that we have had in the city has not functioned, has not worked. And that's what ware saying. It needs a new direction. And like you say, very clearly, the roles have to be very clearly defined. If it's going to be Sanitation, if it's going to be the Police Department, but the salvers have a role to play, and their role has to be defined. But the final responsibility lies with the City of Philadelphia. And like Dwight Evans said and Darryl Clarke and I have said, we have the responsibility to our citizens to be able to eliminate this blight and make sure that this dark cloud in Broad and east and west of Broad disappears.
And please come to 134 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 the budget hearings, okay? And any hearing, any meeting that you have, invite us to talk about these issues because we need you to be informed of what we're doing and how we're proceeding, okay? Thank you. Is there anyone else to testify? A salver? Thank you. (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Council. My name is George Groves. I work with the City salvers.
You know, we moved 1228 cars out of the 25th District, and it doesn't seem like did anything. But I'm sure if we worked together in a combined effort that we've done in the 25th, I'm sure that we'd have no problem cleaning the rest of the City. The problem lies in the fact that Harrisburg has tied us back four months with paperwork. If they don't move the paperwork, then we can't move the cars. That's been the biggest 135 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 problem.
Harrisburg has backlogged us with their paperwork for four months.
When you say they have backlogged you with their paperwork, explain that to me.
In order for us to move a car, we need a control number from Harrisburg, and it has to sit 30 days after it gets a control number.
Exactly. And then we process the paperwork and send it to Harrisburg.
And sometimes it's taking us two to three months to get a control number back from Harrisburg.
No, no. We can remove the 136 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 cars when we get the 952.
But then we have -- each lot only has a certain amount of space.
If we hold 400 cars for 120 days, that's way beyond what we're supposed to be holding when Harrisburg has us backlogged that far. Okay, it's not the City causing the problem here. I love Philadelphia. Actually, I can move but I don't want to. You know, if you want to continue to move cars, then we need the ability to do it. But it's Harrisburg that's putting a stop on everything. It's not Philadelphia, and it's not the salvers. And I think we do get a lot of heat for this.
So we have to be able to communicate with PennDOT and find out why it is taking them so long to process -- 137 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615
Mr. Chairman, do you know how many people that have been working up there, salvaging the problem with abandoned cars? Two. Two people. They get burdened from salvers 6 with as many papers as they can feed them. 7
And is that for the 8 whole state or for Philadelphia alone? 9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: For 10 Philadelphia. 11
What? 12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: For Philadelphia 13 alone. 14
Yes, sir. Actually, no, that's for the entire state. That's for the state, not for Philadelphia. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's for the whole state.
Two people for the entire state? 138 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615
I would have loved to have had that knowledge with Dwight here.
I also understand that Senator Fumo has also offered to help them with staffing.
Have you developed a position paper or some -- again, this is great today, but do you see a way of streamlining the process -- does Harrisburg need to be as involved as they are in the process? I mean, do you have some recommendations on how to make this run better?
Councilman (sic.) Evans has the right idea -- by not being able to reject any of the paperwork, and for the hulks to be 139 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 destroyed within ten days and get a salvager certificate. That's the way it needs to be done. The City of Philadelphia right now is in a state of emergency with abandoned cars, if I'm not mistaken, correct?
A state of emergency? Well, we haven't declared it, but we do have it.
Mr. Chairman, you said you wanted to take the police away and put it in another person's hands. The way we were able to move 1228 cars was by having police officers with us, okay? There's a House Bill, it's called House Bill 433. Any car that has stickers on the windshield that are 90 days or older is declared an imminent danger and could be removed too, no 22 matter what the status of the car is like.
So are you telling me that if the system that we have right now worked the way it should work, we wouldn't be 140 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 where we are?
So we're not in as not a bad shape with the laws that govern your job; we're just not doing it to the best of our ability?
Well, if we could set up a system that processed, instead of having you send the paperwork to Harrisburg --
A centralizing office in Philadelphia. Then we would be able to remove move that paperwork through Harrisburg very quickly, you know, with --
I think the only thing we wouldn't have -- we wait for control letters from Harrisburg for them to notify the owner. We could do that in Philadelphia. I think the only thing we couldn't do is get a salvager certificate out of Philadelphia 'cause that would directly have to come from Harrisburg.
Well, we need 141 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 legislation, we need some tools to be able to do that. What I'm trying to see is, how do we cut out that process that we are able to process, and then, you know, maybe write a report to the state of Pennsylvania and PennDOT and say that these things have been done, these cars have been removed, these cars -- I'm just trying to see how it is that we are able to cut some of the some of the bureaucracy out of this process. And it's going to take work between this committee, Darryl, myself and our staffs, and see how we can research it and do this. Okay?
Ruth Birchett and Mary Gibson. (Ms. Birchett and Ms. Dirkson come forward.)
I know you from somewhere. 142 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615
I know you from somewhere too. My name is Ruth Birchett. I am president and founder of Heritage Community Economic Development Corporation in Philadelphia. I'm also a community person in the 32nd Ward. My comments are in reference to the abandoned-car problem that we have, and I'm not sure if you've heard the angle that I'm interested in sharing with you. Our neighborhood, as many statistics, the census statistics or whatever would prove out, is a neighborhood where unemployment is and poverty is prevalent. And because of that, having a vehicle, if you happen to own a vehicle, that's a promise of opportunity and being able to access employment. Everyone knows that there is much more employment available outside of the -- immediately outside of the City area, in places such as King of Prussia and other places such as that, or even at the airport, than there are here in the limits of the City. And so residents of our community have been affected by the economics as much as people in other areas. 143 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 The difference is that if you live in a part of the City where you happen to have a garage and you've been laid off and you have a vehicle, your vehicle is protected, and you don't have to worry about in 30 days, you will also -- or perhaps in 90 days, you're also going to lose that vehicle, which might be a potential way for you to get to your next hopeful place of employment. And so we're in a real Catch-22 here. When you put a little sticker waiting for tags on your car and you're hoping and praying that because none of the neighbors have complained about it whatsoever, that you're able to try and acquire that employment and are still be able to utilize that car to get there, you know, in the meantime. But, unfortunately, it happens too often that the clock runs out, and the car gets towed, and then you're in a worse situation than you were. I would advocate for, in areas where there is no neighborhood complaints about it, about a vehicle, that the owner of the vehicle is responsible enough to make sure that trash isn't accumulating around it, will attempt to keep the 144 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 tires inflated and things of that sort, that the owner has exercised some level of responsibility in making sure that that vehicle is not a public nuisance, that it shouldn't be tampered with. It shouldn't be tampered with unless there is cause. I think another angle with regard to this situation -- and actually before I go there, let me just say, too, there's a situation, for example, where a community-based organization that works on housing, a person working there who doesn't live in the neighborhood, nevertheless, was able to get -- kept talking to me about this abandoned car, that it's been there forever, it's been there forever. Well, it comes to find out that it was a car of an elder. It was a classic '59 automobile, and the owner had nowhere to put it but in front of his door. Because, again, we don't have garages. It was towed, through the efforts of this individual. And it's an example of what outside forces cause to happen when no one whatsoever in the neighborhood had any complaints whatsoever.
But that shouldn't 145 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 happen.
But it did, and it was a vehicle that was -- and people like me. I have the same address and phone number as when I was born. You know, I don't have any other place that I want to put my vehicle in front of. You know,, we've been there 49 years. And if I have a vehicle and if I have something that belongs to me and I want it in front of my house, then I should be able to do that -- as long as it's not interfering with anyone else and is not creating any type of a nuisance.
I don't disagree. And I hope that -- and in fact, the reason why we have the consent decree that we have is because in the '70s and through that, that was happening very, very commonly in many areas across north- central and in poor neighborhoods by the Police Department. They were towing cars just that were sitting in front and were not abandoned, were being taken care of. And that's why we have that consent decree. I don't think we have a police department right now that does that. I don't 146 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 think we have an administration incoming or outgoing that would tolerate a police department doing that. But, you know, we have to be able to watch and for the due process rights of citizens poor, rich, or whatever. But we have to make sure that that does not happen.
Well, I'll tell you another situation that's happened. My organization is an emergency food cover site, and we distribute food to the elderly. And we have to go to the Share Program to pick up food, and we have to go to the food bank to pick up food. Well, the food bank had a old 1979 Chevrolet van donated for a raffle out to another organization. Basically another program got a new van. We won the drawing for this clunker. Nevertheless, it worked, but we're an organization that doesn't have a budget to immediately run out and get the tags transferred and get the insurance and things of that sort. So it stayed parked across the street from my house while we attempted to try to get the funds. We used a bicycle pump to keep the tires inflated and, you know, kept going out there and sweeping underneath of it. 147 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 But we got an alarming call at our community center from a neighbor saying, There's a policeman in your van, he's in the van, he's looking all around. I think they're going to tow it. And so, you know, we had to get another organization come and help us take the van, you know, move it around the corner so that it's not at risk of being towed while we try and scramble around, just like the individual homeowner or individual citizen would do to try to protect this so that we can continue providing a totally volunteer service to over 100 elders in every single month.
And in anything we come up with, we've got to make sure that that does not happen.
Yeah. Well, I don't know who it was crawling around the van. The other issue is, there is a garage, for example, at 19th and Norris Street, right on the corner. And everybody knows that they have car auctions and things of this sort. And I've talk with the environmental officer as well as the abandoned-car officer at the 22nd District in 148 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 relation to this problem. But it seems that this particular person will go and purchase vehicles from the auction, come and find out whether they are able to be repairable or not, and trying to sell them. And it's discovering that some of them, it seems at least, that some of them are not repairable, and they end up on the street. This guy is saying that the City trucks just dump them there. And I think that he has this little thing going where the abandoned cars in the 2000 block of Norris Street are from this particular business. And it makes it appear as if individual citizens has them there. So that's one thing I want the Council to be aware of, that there may be some businesses that are in auto repair or whatever that might be also dumping some of these cars onto our City streets. And that's the end of my comments.
And thank you, Councilman Clarke, for your sponsorship on this 149 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 issue. It is very much an issue for our community. And we appreciate your diligence.
You're welcome. And as your Councilperson and also as your ward leader and as your neighbor, I think that the emphasis on what we're trying to do today will deal more with the burned-out junkers, the abandoned vehicles that are designated as nuisances. My understanding in talking to the Police Department is that there is a certain status that's given to each individual vehicle that's written up. Based on that status, there's a required time that notification is given to that particular owner. And my understanding is if the vehicle has no tires, no windows, no tag, no VIN number, then it's designated as an emergency, and there's a short timeframe. And my understanding is that what State Representative Evans is working on, and I know what we're talking about here in this committee and this Council, will be targeted more towards these vehicles. When the City Solicitor was here 150 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 earlier and she was talking about the consent decree, I think she mentioned the fact that it would either be vacated or modified. So if, in fact, there was some instances like you brought up and we find that to be an issue, there may be modifications made to address those vehicles that are designated as an emergency or an extreme nuisance to a community.
Living in your community, I happen to get a lot of complaints about the vehicles every time I go in my house. So there is a lot of human cry about the conditions in our community, not just about the abandoned vehicles, but about other things. And frankly speaking, as I've indicated to you as a person that worked with me during the course of the campaign, I think that we need to take it to another level as it relates to cleaning up some of these nuisance activities in our communities. There will probably be an instance where we will make a mistake when we're talking about something of this magnitude 'cause this will 151 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 be a citywide policy. There's no way in the world that we won't probably take somebody's vehicle that falls within the category that you spoke of today. That is unfortunate, but that is what happens in cities of this size. But our attempts will be to minimize the possibility of that happening. And we're very happy to hear that testimony.
Sure. I'm happy to hear that because there are many issues that neighborhood people, who are very active in the community and are often sought after for problems that citizens have, we often are blind-sided by things that happen that we could have helped out with if we had only had the chance to have input, and you've provided this opportunity. I would not have known about this hearing if I had not gotten a letter from you, and I want to thank you for that.
Honestly, as a block captain, too, you know, just -- there's a mechanism for putting out information to people as well. And there are like over 6,000 block 152 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 captains in the city, and that might be, you know, a good vehicle to put out information to us as well. So thank you.
Good afternoon. My name is Maria Dirkson. I'm a committee person and also in charge of concerned organized blocks in my area in North Philadelphia. I've been here, I've had a very educated morning and afternoon, providing about abandoned cars. Every day, by me being a leader, somebody calls my house and says, I want the abandoned car moved. And so I get tired, and I say, Call Darryl Clarke's office. And I know your office is being ringing off the hook. But I have abandoned cars in the 2600 block of North 17th Street, which I've been calling for nine months. We've got about five of them, and they've been setting and setting. And, I mean, some of them has been fire, broken into 'em, and the kids play and fall over everything. But I know it takes time here today, 153 12/3/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 990615 listening to how long you have to go through and the procedures which you have to do while they're not moved. But I look forward to in the future, maybe in January, that they will be moved. So I thank God I'm here today and that you all are doing a wonderful job. And you will be able to help me in January so my neighbors and friend that call me 'cause I'm a leader, won't call me and say, Move the abandoned car.
This hearing of the Public Safety Committee on Resolution 990615 is recessed until December 13, at 10 a.m. (Adjourned at 2:30 p.m.) - - - 154 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Friday, December 3 1999, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY RESOLUTION NO. 990615 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter