civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - December 11, 2024

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Dec 11, 20247h 26m

Thank you.

Similar wording

chairs there are 57 attendees and you can start when you wish thank you good morning everyone my

Similar wording

name is bill bergman and i will be chairing this morning's meeting with me is our vice chair

Similar wording

Ismael Shahid. Present, Mr. Chairman. Our board member, Cheryl L. Gaston. Present, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Our board member, Tanetta Graham. Present, Mr. Chairman. Our board member, Michael Johns.

Similar wording

And our board member, Taya Nguyen, will be joining us shortly. Also present is Ryan McSherry,

Similar wording

our attorney, and our executive director, Ian Haggerty. Here's our virtual format.

Similar wording

Proceedings are being recorded. With your participation, you agree to be recorded.

Similar wording

Video will be available by contacting ZBA Executive Director at phila.gov. For a court

Similar wording

stenographer, we ask attorneys and witnesses to identify themselves before testifying.

Similar wording

If you're participating by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute.

Similar wording

To enter an appearance statement, call 267-270-5548.

Similar wording

Leave your email address and address of the property in question.

Similar wording

Finally, the question answer box on the screen is not for testimony.

Similar wording

All questions should be directed to our executive director.

Similar wording

That's ZBAexecutiveDirector at phil.gov.

Similar wording

So let's look at our schedule for today.

Similar wording

Number 17, MI 2024-004-773-4926 North 12th Street.

Similar wording

That case is continued.

Similar wording

Are there any other requests for continuances?

Similar wording

Good morning, Chair.

Similar wording

This is Jasmine Webster, and I will be your co-host for today.

Similar wording

I have a human by the name of Darlene Threatt

Similar wording

And she has been allowed

Similar wording

Oh sure

Similar wording

Good morning counsel

Similar wording

Good morning commissioners

Similar wording

Darlene Threatt

Similar wording

Could you spell your name for the court stenographer

Similar wording

Darlene D-A-R-L-E-N-E

Similar wording

Threatt T as in Thomas

Similar wording

H-R-E-A-T-T

Similar wording

Do you swear or firm to tell the truth

Similar wording

The whole truth and nothing about the truth

Similar wording

Yes commissioner

Similar wording

And your case is 611 Destin Street

Similar wording

Yes commissioner

Similar wording

Okay. Could you give me an update, please?

Similar wording

Commissioner, I'm withdrawing this matter today.

Similar wording

Okay. Thank you very much.

Similar wording

Thank you. Have a good day.

Similar wording

So, thank you. So, number two, MI 2023-001-445-611 Dixon Street. That case has been withdrawn.

Similar wording

Are there any other requests for continuances?

Similar wording

Yes, Chair. I have a hand up by the name of Albert Sylvester. They have been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

good morning could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

Similar wording

good morning my name is albert sylvester a-l-b-e-r-t last name sylvester s-y-l-v-e-s

Similar wording

that's v as in victor e-s-t-e-r do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth

Similar wording

nothing but the truth yes sir what case you are you calling about sir

Similar wording

um i'm asking for a continuous for the zoning uh for my building at what's that location

Similar wording

3-6-4-5 North 19th Street.

Similar wording

okay all right so okay so this is your first listing um the case will be continued so

Similar wording

MI 2024-004-775-3645 North 19th Street.

Similar wording

Cases continued.

Similar wording

And thanks for calling us, sir.

Similar wording

Any other requests for continuances?

Similar wording

Yes, Chair. I have one more hand up by the name of Mark Feynman. They have been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Yes, sir.

Similar wording

I have one more hand up by the name of Mark Thiemann.

Similar wording

Good morning, sir. Could you please state your name and spell for the sonographer?

Similar wording

Yes. Good morning. My name is Mark Feynman, M-A-R-K, F as in Frank, E-I-N as in Nicholas, M-A-N.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

What case, sir, do you want to talk about?

Similar wording

I am calling in reference to MI 2024-004752.

Similar wording

The address is 1923 East Allegheny Avenue.

Similar wording

Are you the owner, sir?

Similar wording

I am not.

Similar wording

I'm counsel for the owner.

Similar wording

And the owner is Demma Realty.

Similar wording

And I have the president of the company present with me also.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

So you want a continuance?

Similar wording

That is correct.

Similar wording

I noticed that the tax clearance is outdated, so we need to get a current tax clearance.

Similar wording

And I also noticed that there were the photos of the posting missing.

Similar wording

Otherwise, everything else is ready.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

So MI 2024, 004752, 1923 East Allegheny Avenue.

Similar wording

Cases continue.

Similar wording

Thank you, sir.

Similar wording

Any other requests for continuance?

Similar wording

I see no more hands at this time, too.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

So.

Similar wording

Number six, MI-2023-005-685-1335 McKinley Street. Is Mr. DeMarco present?

Similar wording

Yes, Chair. He has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Good morning, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Good morning, Mr. DeMarco. Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Richard DeMarco. D-E-M-A-R-C-O is my last name, spelling.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Counsel, this is the third listing. We still don't have exhibits. Could you give us an update?

Similar wording

Oh, yeah. I wasn't aware it was listed today, Mr. Chairman, so my apologies for that.

Similar wording

But I'm almost 99% sure this client has not been responding to inquiries.

Similar wording

I'm 99% sure this client is not moving forward.

Similar wording

But I can't say that I spoke to her.

Similar wording

So here's what we'll do.

Similar wording

We're going to continue one more time, sir.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

And I'll confirm it.

Similar wording

I'm trying to get that straightened out.

Similar wording

Yeah, I'll get it straightened out.

Similar wording

And sorry, I wasn't aware of what we were talking about.

Similar wording

No, no, no.

Similar wording

No, thank you.

Similar wording

So number six, MI 2023-005-685-1335 McKinley Street, case continued, marked must be heard.

Similar wording

We're going to go back here to number three, MI 2023-001-512-1307 Moymencing Avenue.

Similar wording

That case has been withdrawn.

Similar wording

Number 10, MI 2024-001-286-513 South 13th Street, along with number 11, MI 2024-001-287-1305 Rodman Street,

Similar wording

And also number 13, MI2024-001-548-1307 Rodman Street.

Similar wording

Is Ann Johnson Sachs or Eric Sachs in the audience?

Similar wording

Chair, I see no one by that mean.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

So all three of these cases, number one, number 10, MI 2024-001-286-513-South 13th, MI 2024-001-287-1305-Rodman, and number 13, MI 2024-001-548-1307-Rodman, all three cases are continued, and Mark must be heard.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

We're going to go to our add-on list.

Similar wording

Mr. Chair, I just wanted to know that it's Taya and I am here now.

Similar wording

Oh, thank you, Taya.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Okay, so number one, MI 2024-002-410, 2913 to 15 Kensington Avenue, I vote no.

Similar wording

What if no?

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no

Similar wording

Tana Graham, my vote is no

Similar wording

my vote is no

Similar wording

Ioan, my vote is no

Similar wording

Ishmael Shahid

Similar wording

my vote is no

Similar wording

thank you

Similar wording

excuse me board member Gaston can you just

Similar wording

certify that you watched the video of the

Similar wording

hearings for this one

Similar wording

sorry I hereby

Similar wording

certify that I watched

Similar wording

the video

Similar wording

of

Similar wording

what was the date I'm sorry Hillary

Similar wording

29-13

Similar wording

15 Kensington

Similar wording

no no yeah but i think there was a date oh yes there were two it was an october date and a

Similar wording

november october the 23rd and november the 19th yes i hereby certify that i did uh uh review uh

Similar wording

both of the uh uh videos for uh those hearings thank you great excuse me chair this is the

Similar wording

court reporter. I had some difficulty with Mr. Johns' audio. Okay. Mr. Johns, vote one more

Similar wording

time, please. My vote was no. Thank you. Thank you. All right. And number two, and I see with

Similar wording

number two that Taya will certify and also Cheryl Gaston will certify on this. So MI 2021-004-633-

Similar wording

3900 Main Street, I vote yes with proviso per amended refusal dated 9-18-24.

Similar wording

I recuse from this one. Oh, Cheryl Gaspin, I certified, I, Cheryl L. Gaspin certified

Similar wording

that I watched the video of the November 19, 24, 2024 hearing in this matter and my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Seneta Graham, my vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Oh, I'm sorry. My vote is yes with proviso. Excuse me.

Similar wording

Ty, I wouldn't certify that I watched the video of the July 16,

Similar wording

2024 hearing in this matter, and my vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Number three, MI 2024

Similar wording

001 631 2732

Similar wording

West Montgomery, I vote no.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, my vote is no.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.

Similar wording

Tanetta Graham, my vote is no.

Similar wording

Iowan, my vote is no.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is no.

Similar wording

Number four, MI 2024, 004-727-4815 North 9th Street,

Similar wording

I vote yes

Similar wording

with Proviso

Similar wording

no two-family household living.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, my vote is yes with Proviso.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.

Similar wording

Tanada Graham, my vote is yes with Proviso.

Similar wording

My vote is yes with Proviso.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shahid, my vote is yes with Proviso.

Similar wording

Thank you. We're going to go to our regular list. MI2023. Oh, I'm sorry. I have an add-on first. We're going to go to number 14. MI2024. 002-798. 11707. Stevens wrote, Otebek Markadav is the owner. We do have an interpreter.

Similar wording

Interpreter, please.

Similar wording

I see no hands raised at this time, Chair, for the interpreter.

Similar wording

Could we check to see if there's an...

Similar wording

I'm sorry, Chair, excuse me.

Similar wording

I was just going to ask.

Similar wording

If the interpreter is in the audience, please raise your virtual hand.

Similar wording

Okay, I have someone by the name of Nasibia.

Similar wording

Why don't we do this? Why don't we go on to the next case, and could we check with the interpreter's office to see if they have someone in route, okay?

Similar wording

Sounds good.

Similar wording

All right. Thank you, Fatina. All right. We're going to move to number 16. MI 2024-004-768-8638 Jackson Street. This is a pro se.

Similar wording

Excuse me, Mr. Chair. I believe there is now a council for this matter, Zen Jin.

Similar wording

Okay. Oh, good. Thank you. Thank you.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Oh, good.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Good morning, counsel.

Similar wording

Zen Jin has been promoted to penalist.

Similar wording

Good morning, Chair.

Similar wording

Good morning, counsel. Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes. My name is Zen Jin, Z-H-E-N. Last name is J-I-N.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Could you identify your client and the relationship to this property?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

My client is the owner of the property, Marlandi, I'm sorry, Marlandani, Vela Derez Hernandez.

Similar wording

And counsel, just for a point of information, there is a recommendation of opposition from the Upper Holmesburg Civic Association, 21 to 3.

Similar wording

I understand that.

Similar wording

Okay. Okay. All right. Our vice chair has a few questions, sir.

Similar wording

Good morning, counsel. Good morning, counsel. Do you agree with the reading of the refusal or stipulate towards accuracy?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed and required to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?

Similar wording

I believe my client actually directly submitted through the system ahead of time. Yes.

Similar wording

Thank you, counsel. Please proceed and share your screen.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

I'm going to share with the board what I have as exhibits.

Similar wording

My apologies.

Similar wording

One second.

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

Take your time.

Similar wording

Can the board see my exhibit on their screen?

Similar wording

We can, sir.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

So as a preliminary matter, we are aware, my client and I are both aware of the opposition

Similar wording

from the Homensburg Association, Upper Homensburg Association.

Similar wording

For today's purposes, what we're asking the board is we're withdrawing our request for

Similar wording

the proposed two-family dwelling.

Similar wording

There is a secondary refusal item, which is here on the refusal in front of you, and that

Similar wording

is a proposed stair from the ground to the rear deck, leading from the deck to the rear yard.

Similar wording

We're asking for the board's review of that particular refusal today, mainly for the purpose

Similar wording

of allowing my client to have easier access to the rear yard from the property. So this is the

Similar wording

property in question. This is the interior. The deck staircase in question is here.

Similar wording

My client will be making changes to the property to remove the second kitchen that was installed

Similar wording

to make sure that it complies with single family dwelling. However, the primary use of the property

Similar wording

would then primarily be above the basement level, which you see here in the photograph on the right

Similar wording

portion. And generally, they'll be coming out of the rear of the first floor to the deck.

Similar wording

He primarily wants the ability to still be able to access directly to the rear yard,

Similar wording

rather than having to come around the property to the basement level each time, and then having to

Similar wording

come out the rear door in the basement level. So for the purpose of today, that is the variance

Similar wording

that we're seeking before the board. The rear yard itself is completely fenced off with a legal fence.

Similar wording

And the stairway itself, its presence will not negatively impact the neighbors.

Similar wording

It is simply an access for the owner to be able to more easily access their own rear yard.

Similar wording

So we would ask the board's favorable consideration in that aspect of the refusal only.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

I have additional exhibits.

Similar wording

Let me bring your client on.

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

Marlon Donnie, can you raise your hand virtually to be identified?

Similar wording

morning could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

Similar wording

good morning my name is marlon donny valveris hernandez it's m-a-r-l-a-n-d-a-n-i

Similar wording

be like victor a-l-l-a-d-a-r-e-z-h-e-r-n-a-n-d-e-z

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, sir.

Similar wording

Please proceed, counsel.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Manandani, did you see my presentation before the board and hear my representation?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Can you verify what I've represented to the board is true and correct and adopt it as your own testimony?

Similar wording

It is correct.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Questions from the board.

Similar wording

Questions from the board. Is the current deck, was that approved?

Similar wording

is the current

Similar wording

The deck itself is within code and it's not an item of refusal, so it is approved.

Similar wording

My question, there's no access to the rear yard from the basement level.

Similar wording

no there is there is an access there's an there's an existing door um that would access the rear

Similar wording

yard from the basement level however with the deck and the railing there um i can put up the

Similar wording

picture again you can see that it's it's a very low you know even though the overall height is

Similar wording

relatively high um the actual the actual railing for the deck makes it relatively low it's very

Similar wording

easy to hit your head actually coming out from the door walking past that area i see and where's

Similar wording

the do you have pictures of the door for the unfortunately i do not believe the door would

Similar wording

actually be right under so it's actually under this window i have plans here that should be

Similar wording

able to i wonder if the plans would have it i'm sorry i did not submit these exhibits so it's

Similar wording

little understood so the the door is actually on the on the plants i've seen before it's actually

Similar wording

right here under the deck okay so there is access to the rear yard from the property without having

Similar wording

to walk around well the interior was um the interior doesn't actually now have a stair

Similar wording

between the first floor and the basement level

Similar wording

because they're on the interior.

Similar wording

So they would actually have to walk outside,

Similar wording

come around into where the garage used to be,

Similar wording

and then access through to the back.

Similar wording

So because that was its own separate unit,

Similar wording

we're going to remove that as a unit

Similar wording

and use it as essentially storage and garage,

Similar wording

or at least storage.

Similar wording

The garage no longer exists,

Similar wording

But it would still be extremely inconvenient for the owner to come down through that floor-basement level to walk to the backyard.

Similar wording

And that's because of the conversion of the property without having permits initially, correct?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Were the RCOs able to hear the amended plan removed for the single family?

Similar wording

So the RCO, we actually explained to the RCO that, well, this was the original plan.

Similar wording

We explained to the RCO that what we're looking for was the deck rail stairs, as well as two family.

Similar wording

The RCO said that they're absolutely against the two family.

Similar wording

And also, they did not, we had a neighbor up here, but they did not specifically address the stair as much.

Similar wording

So no, the RCO did not get a separate meeting together for the deck, just the stairs.

Similar wording

They wanted to just make a decision on the overall proposal at the time that the meeting took place.

Similar wording

And also, we were not allowed to stay for the vote, so I'm not sure what the final discussion was at the RCO.

Similar wording

is the current plan the same plan that the rco saw or were there further revisions made after

Similar wording

that meeting no there was no revisions made after the meeting okay so this is exactly the same as

Similar wording

what the rco saw the difference is that you're now proposing that it not be a conversion to

Similar wording

to family, but you want to keep the deck and keep the storage dead.

Similar wording

Correct.

Similar wording

Other questions from the board?

Similar wording

Questions from our attorney, Ryan McSherry.

Similar wording

No, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

Yes, Chair.

Similar wording

I have been handed by the name of Shakira A.

Similar wording

They have been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Good morning.

Similar wording

could you please state your name and spell for the court synopsis?

Similar wording

Hi, my name is Shakira

Similar wording

Avenue. My first name is

Similar wording

S-H-A-K-E-A-R-A

Similar wording

last name A, B as in

Similar wording

Boyd, N as in Nancy, E as in

Similar wording

Edward, why?

Similar wording

Where are firm to tell the truth, told truth,

Similar wording

nothing but the truth? Yes.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes. Please

Similar wording

proceed.

Similar wording

Please proceed.

Similar wording

I'm a neighbor at address 1836 North Neutrona Street.

Similar wording

Oh, no, this is, you have the wrong case. We're going to get to that a little bit later, okay?

Similar wording

Oh, no, this is you have the wrong case.

Similar wording

We're going to get to that a little bit later.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

All right. Anyone from there in the virtual audience for 8638 Jackson Street?

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Planning Commission.

Similar wording

Thank you, Chairman, and good morning, David Fecto, F-E-C-T-E-A-U, with the City Planning Commission.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, sir, I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed.

Similar wording

Thank you, sir. Chairman and board members, the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the RSA-5 residential single-family zoning at this location.

Similar wording

The city changed the zoning maps in this neighborhood in 1971.

Similar wording

At that time, the zoning of this property was zoned R-8, which became RM-1 residential multifamily, with the adoption of the new zoning code.

Similar wording

The proposed stair from the ground to the deck will not injure the use of adjacent property.

Similar wording

The City Planning Commission recommends that the board grant their proposed variants for exterior stairs leading to the deck.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Ryan, would this be, if I'm so inclined, a yes vote with a proviso, no two-family household living?

Similar wording

Yes, that would be appropriate, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

So MI 2024, 004-768-8638 Jackson Street, I vote yes with proviso. No to family household living.

Similar wording

Michael John, my vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.

Similar wording

Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Tywin, my vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Number one, MI-2023.

Similar wording

Excuse me, Chair.

Similar wording

If we can go back to the one with the interpreter, she is here.

Similar wording

Thank you very much.

Similar wording

That's number 13.

Similar wording

Good morning, interpreter.

Similar wording

Owner is Otabek Mohameddav, is the owner.

Similar wording

And our interpreter, please.

Similar wording

Nasibir has been promoted to penalist.

Similar wording

Morning, could you please state your name?

Similar wording

It's spelled for the court stenographer.

Similar wording

Of course.

Similar wording

My name is Nasibir.

Similar wording

N is in November.

Similar wording

A is in Apple.

Similar wording

S is in Sam

Similar wording

I is in Ice

Similar wording

B is in Boy

Similar wording

A is in Apple

Similar wording

My last name is

Similar wording

Abdullayva

Similar wording

A is in Apple

Similar wording

B is in Boy

Similar wording

D is in Diamond

Similar wording

U is in Umbrella

Similar wording

L is in Lion

Similar wording

L is in Lion

Similar wording

A is in Apple

Similar wording

E is in Elephant

Similar wording

V is in Victor

Similar wording

A is in Apple

Similar wording

You silently swear or affirm

Similar wording

that you will interpret accurately, completely, and impartially

Similar wording

from English to use it back

Similar wording

and from use it back to English

Similar wording

to the best of your ability.

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Could you please call the owner

Similar wording

of the property for us?

Similar wording

It's Otabek Makamadov,

Similar wording

if I'm saying it right,

Similar wording

it's M-A-K-H-A-M-E-D-O-V.

Similar wording

Could you please call that owner?

Similar wording

Otabek Mohamedov.

Similar wording

Is this your name, Otabek?

Similar wording

He's here, but he's muted, I think.

Similar wording

He what?

Similar wording

Muted.

Similar wording

He's here.

Similar wording

He's amongst the two students.

Similar wording

Tell him on mute, please.

Similar wording

Yes, I'm here.

Similar wording

I'm sorry.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Could you have him state his name

Similar wording

and spell for the court stenographer, please?

Similar wording

My first name is Otabek, O-T-A-B-E-K.

Similar wording

My last name is Mahamedov, M-A-K-H-A-M-E-D-O-V.

Similar wording

Could you please tell him,

Similar wording

do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,

Similar wording

the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Our vice chair has a few questions for him.

Similar wording

Yes, good morning.

Similar wording

Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits?

Similar wording

Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed

Similar wording

that's

Similar wording

and required to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?

Similar wording

You are.

Similar wording

Yes, I did it.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

You can proceed and share your screen.

Similar wording

Let him share his screen.

Similar wording

And could you also tell him that we understand that the Somberden Civic Association has voted in his favor, and there's a letter of non-opposition from Council Member O'Neill?

Similar wording

or could you have him start his presentation

Similar wording

and when he shows things

Similar wording

I'll tell you if in fact we have it

Similar wording

we have this

Similar wording

document

Similar wording

we also have the next

Similar wording

document

Similar wording

yes I have it

Similar wording

keep moving

Similar wording

we have that project information form

Similar wording

yes it's here

Similar wording

we saw

Similar wording

we saw the deed

Similar wording

we have that

Similar wording

we're good

Similar wording

yes

Similar wording

make it easier

Similar wording

could he move

Similar wording

to the plans

Similar wording

and also the photos of the

Similar wording

project.

Similar wording

Project is not planning.

Similar wording

What's his name?

Similar wording

Us.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

That's where he died. Okay, I see. That's where

Similar wording

he posted. Thank you.

Similar wording

Rahmat.

Similar wording

That's the Somerton

Similar wording

Civic Association. We have that letter.

Similar wording

There's an overhead view.

Similar wording

Could you explain? I see where his

Similar wording

is. Okay. Thank you.

Similar wording

Rahmat.

Similar wording

hold on hold on one minute go back

Similar wording

so that's where he's parking his car right now am I correct

Similar wording

my car is a Hyundai Palisade it's ECV

Similar wording

what did he say

Similar wording

it's not my car it's my friend car

Similar wording

My car is Hyundai Palisade.

Similar wording

It's SUV, a big car.

Similar wording

My car is big.

Similar wording

It's not mine.

Similar wording

My friend's car is in.

Similar wording

But he has his friend's car in the parking place that he's using.

Similar wording

Is that correct?

Similar wording

Okay, so the picture was done when he visited us as a guest.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

So the issue is, he's created a room in the garage, is that what happened?

Similar wording

but my parents arrived, and my mom and dad

Similar wording

My mom had the cancer and she had to go under the operation.

Similar wording

And so it was difficult for her to lift up upstairs as I have my little children.

Similar wording

So yes, there are seven, four and one and they are too noisy.

Similar wording

I have to create a room in the basement for this reason because of your health condition.

Similar wording

because of your health condition after the cancer operation.

Similar wording

after the cancer operation.

Similar wording

Does he have photos of the basement?

Similar wording

Yes, I have it.

Similar wording

Is there a bathroom in the basement?

Similar wording

I have a toilet.

Similar wording

There is a toilet and a toilet.

Similar wording

Okay, so, yes, there is a bathroom, but I didn't do any pictures of them.

Similar wording

Is there a kitchen in the bathroom? A kitchen there, too?

Similar wording

No, no kitchen there.

Similar wording

There's a room. Do they sleep down there?

Similar wording

yeah they sleep and have a rest

Similar wording

what's that again they sleep and have a rest there

Similar wording

there's a bathroom down there too

Similar wording

when they want to eat they go upstairs is that what you're saying

Similar wording

Yeah, we bring to the basement when we cook something.

Similar wording

She cannot.

Similar wording

Could you show us the plans? I noticed he had some plans. Let me see the plans.

Similar wording

So, I guess this is the plan.

Similar wording

All right. Questions from the board.

Similar wording

I did have a quick question. So the entrance into, so you have that separate stair that goes up the side that goes into the first floor for the main house.

Similar wording

i just want to i think i think that's what i read i know i talked too fast um but i think i

Similar wording

answered my own question so you have to ask him that thank you another question

Similar wording

but looking if he could scroll up to the plan for a second i'm just trying to see is there

Similar wording

going to be any delineation in the front pad uh the marking the difference between the parking

Similar wording

space and the pedestrian walkway to get to the door.

Similar wording

So this is the entrance.

Similar wording

Yeah, and I was asking,

Similar wording

is there a separate walkway

Similar wording

for people to get to the

Similar wording

like a protected walkway

Similar wording

for people to get to the entrance in the new

Similar wording

proposed plan

Similar wording

now that the parking space is going to

Similar wording

solely be outside

Similar wording

I think

Similar wording

yes I have it

Similar wording

I didn't have the pictures on it

Similar wording

but I have the

Similar wording

separate

Similar wording

to be clear there's no pictures and it's not

Similar wording

So, to be clear, there's no pictures and it's not demarcated on the plan, but it is already installed.

Similar wording

Yes, it is not drawn in a plan. However, it is there. We didn't change any plan.

Similar wording

the path

Similar wording

was there

Similar wording

from the old project.

Similar wording

Okay,

Similar wording

thank you. Other questions

Similar wording

from the board?

Similar wording

Questions or comments

Similar wording

from our attorney? No, Mr.

Similar wording

Chair. Questions or comments

Similar wording

from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

I see no hands

Similar wording

at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Planning Commission. Thank you,

Similar wording

Chairman, and good morning, David Efecto.

Similar wording

the city planning commission chairman and board members the comprehensive plan recommends no

Similar wording

change to the rsa2 residential single-family zoning at this location the city rezoned this

Similar wording

neighborhood in 1978 at that time this property zoning was left unchanged from the prior r4

Similar wording

which became rsa2 after after the adoption of the new zoning code despite the presence of garages

Similar wording

accessory surface parking appears to be a common if unregulated occurrence in this block face

Similar wording

the city planning commission recommends the board grant the proposed use variants for accessory

Similar wording

off-street surface parking

Similar wording

mi 2024 002 798 11707 stevens road i vote yes michael johns my vote is yes

Similar wording

Cheryl Guest, and my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Tinella Graham, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Ayahwin, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you, Interpreter.

Similar wording

We appreciate your help.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

My pleasure.

Similar wording

Thank you so much.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Number one, MI2023-00633, 1307 West Sesquanah Avenue.

Similar wording

David Devin Eptor is the attorney.

Similar wording

There's unanimous support from the 37th Ward and a letter of non-opposition from Council Member Young.

Similar wording

Morning, Council.

Similar wording

Devin Uffa has been promoted to panelists.

Similar wording

Good morning, Chair. Can you hear me?

Similar wording

Good morning. Good morning, Council. Yes. Could you turn your video on, please?

Similar wording

yes thank you um could you state your name and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

yes devin d-e-v-i-n um last name u-q-d-a-h you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth

Similar wording

and nothing about the truth yes could you identify your client the relationship to this property

Similar wording

Yes, the owner of the property is self-inked.

Similar wording

It's a nonprofit, and the CEO should be joining the call.

Similar wording

All right, and our vice chair has a few questions for you, sir.

Similar wording

Good morning, counselor.

Similar wording

Do you agree to waive the reading of the reviews or stipulate to its accuracy?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits as needed and required to proceed with this case?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Five days in advance of this hearing.

Similar wording

Thank you, council.

Similar wording

I'm asking my screen.

Similar wording

Please. Yes.

Similar wording

Are you able to see my screen?

Similar wording

We can't share.

Similar wording

Okay. So this property is owned by self,

Similar wording

inc which i mentioned is a non-profit the address is 1307 west suskehanna avenue

Similar wording

just a table of contents this is a copy of the deed to self-ink

Similar wording

um this is pictures of the surrounding area

Similar wording

this is also pictures of the map of the of the area

Similar wording

so this is a suskehanna hair syndrome it's closer to the corner of the block

Similar wording

this is the letter of referral um the property the proposed used to be a group living um basically

Similar wording

that they're going to house it's like a transgender house where people are going

Similar wording

from homelessness to regular residential housing um so it's just group living

Similar wording

It's a picture of the outside of the property.

Similar wording

it's a picture of the outside of the property it's a picture of the

Similar wording

It's a picture of the inside of the property when you come inside.

Similar wording

It's multi-level.

Similar wording

Bathrooms, some of the setup of the bedrooms.

Similar wording

Again, another bedroom, another bathroom.

Similar wording

It's a hallway, another bedroom.

Similar wording

Another bedroom, another bathroom.

Similar wording

is this in use now yes yeah so what currently how it is used now is a cap on the amount of

Similar wording

people that can actually live there so what our proposed use we're going to increase the amount

Similar wording

of people who can live there by changing it to group living and how many how many could you give

Similar wording

me an idea what that means pardon me could you give me an idea what that means like how many

Similar wording

are there now and what's it going to go to?

Similar wording

Three now. It probably

Similar wording

will go to

Similar wording

over six, but not

Similar wording

to exceed nine.

Similar wording

The property is pretty large.

Similar wording

It's three levels. That's one of those

Similar wording

old North Philly houses that

Similar wording

are pretty massive that a lot of people turn into

Similar wording

triplexes.

Similar wording

And there's their bedrooms.

Similar wording

This is a notice to the RCO.

Similar wording

This is a notice. This is a posting.

Similar wording

this is a copy of them having zero realty taxes due and then this is a letter of support from the

Similar wording

rco and that's the end of my presentation and i'm here could you bring could you bring your

Similar wording

client on please yes one second uh dr dash

Similar wording

do you see his client

Similar wording

there she is

Similar wording

Dr. Dish has been allowed to speak

Similar wording

could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

good morning my name is Dr. Shrolana Dash

Similar wording

s-h-i-r-l-a-n-a

Similar wording

last name dash

Similar wording

d-a-s-h

Similar wording

we're affirmed to tell the truth the whole truth

Similar wording

and nothing but the truth yes sir

Similar wording

I do please proceed

Similar wording

counsel good morning

Similar wording

Dr. Dash good morning

Similar wording

have you heard my presentation

Similar wording

regarding 1307 West Susquehanna Avenue

Similar wording

yes I have

Similar wording

do you verify that it's true and adopt

Similar wording

my statements yes I do

Similar wording

questions from the board questions from the board um yes are there plans to uh house anyone in the

Similar wording

basement no they're not and my other question is uh since you've been operating has there been any

Similar wording

kind of complaints or whatever from the near neighbors no we have not not we have not received

Similar wording

any complaints, ma'am. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Questions from the board? Yes. My

Similar wording

questions. What age of residents are we talking about here? Their homeless services. Anyone from

Similar wording

the age of 18 to 70 can be a resident based on referral by the Office of Homeless Services with

Similar wording

the city oh okay that's where you get the yes ma'am we get them from the services and the services

Similar wording

provided are just you know shelter food yes food shelter and case management services we have case

Similar wording

managers on site to provide service yes all right okay thank you you're welcome ma'am is there a 24

Similar wording

hour oversight yes there's 24 hour staffing seven days a week 365 days a year including holidays

Similar wording

yes and how many clients how many clients in that location we have three looking to expand it

Similar wording

we have two other adjoining properties that are likewise being utilized according to their zoning

Similar wording

so a total of how many total of many i think the one house has 10 i think that is 10 that would be

Similar wording

23 so that particular house so your council said we'll have no more than nine yes sir okay

Similar wording

the questions are three levels and each they're three story properties each of them that one yes

Similar wording

other questions from the board

Similar wording

questions or comments from our attorney mr chair

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Planning Commission.

Similar wording

Thank you, Chairman, and good morning.

Similar wording

David DeFecto with the City Planning Commission, Chairman and Board Members.

Similar wording

The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the RM1 residential multifamily zoning at this location.

Similar wording

The zoning of this property dates to the original zoning maps adopted by Council in 1933.

Similar wording

The appellant has shown that proposed use will not cause detrimental impacts beyond what would reasonably be expected.

Similar wording

The City Planning Commission recommends the board grant a requested special exception for a personal care home.

Similar wording

MI 2023-000-66633, 1307 West Susquehanna Avenue, I vote yes.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Iowan, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Thank you, counsel.

Similar wording

Number four, MI 2023-005-586-1206 Annan Street, Clemente Amazon is the attorney.

Similar wording

There is unanimous non-opposition from the Pachong Square Civic Association.

Similar wording

Fementa Imadon will be rejoining us as a panelist.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

good morning chairman members of the board

Similar wording

morning counsel could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

of course clementa amazon that's spelled c-l-e-m-e-n-t-a last name is spelled a-m-a-z-a-n

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

I don't see counsel on the screen.

Similar wording

Do you have your video on, counsel?

Similar wording

My video is on. Are the other board members having issues seeing me?

Similar wording

We don't see you. Oh, there you go. There you go.

Similar wording

I see you now.

Similar wording

Now? Okay.

Similar wording

you disappeared again

Similar wording

oh

Similar wording

I can see myself on the screen

Similar wording

can you guys see me now

Similar wording

no

Similar wording

well

Similar wording

yeah

Similar wording

why don't you start sharing your screen Clemente

Similar wording

see if that how that works

Similar wording

okay

Similar wording

there you go

Similar wording

All right. Number one, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Of course. Clemente Amazon, spelled C-L-E-M-E-N-T-A. Last name is spelled A-M-A-Z-A-N.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Could you identify your client in a relationship to the property?

Similar wording

Of course. My client is Amanda Tersky. She is the owner of the property, along with her husband, Joel Tersky.

Similar wording

our vice chair has a few questions good morning council do you agree to wait the reading of the

Similar wording

refusal or stipulate to its accuracy yes i do have you emailed in all the required documents

Similar wording

and exhibits as needed and required to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing

Similar wording

yes we have thank you council please proceed you've already shared your

Similar wording

thank you as was mentioned previously today i'll be presenting 1206 annon street during my

Similar wording

presentation i will review the refusal we did receive a letter of non-opposition from the rco

Similar wording

a prior zoning permit that was issued for the property in 2001 exterior photos including the

Similar wording

posting photo of the property interior photos of both units they'll notice that was sent to

Similar wording

the community regarding the meeting our certificates of mailing showing that the

Similar wording

notice was in fact sent to all addresses as required by the city the application for appeal

Similar wording

project information form disease showing that my client and minette excuse me my client amanda

Similar wording

and joel chersky on the property and the certificate of tax clearance

Similar wording

we are looking to have the use reinstated for a duplex as you will see in my presentation

Similar wording

although the property is owned rsa 5 in 2001 a zoning permit was issued to allow for the use

Similar wording

of a duplex. My client purchased the property. It was already fitted out as a duplex. It was

Similar wording

listed to her as a duplex. We did attempt to resolve this issue administratively. However,

Similar wording

We did attempt to resolve this issue administratively, however, because a rental license was not pulled, we now have to go through the zoning process once again.

Similar wording

because a rental license was not.

Similar wording

We did meet with the community on November 12th, and we did receive a letter of non-opposition 7-0.

Similar wording

During the vote, it was raised if anyone was in opposition to the project.

Similar wording

No one voted in opposition, so we did receive unanimous non-opposition.

Similar wording

The opportunity to provide unanimous support was not provided.

Similar wording

And as I mentioned, this is a pre-existing use, as we'll see, we do have a zoning permit

Similar wording

that was issued in, excuse me, September 13th, 2001.

Similar wording

We did attempt to use this permit in an effort to obtain a rental license for the duplex

Similar wording

use.

Similar wording

However, because a rental license was not pulled immediately after the issuance of this

Similar wording

permit in 2001 from the prior owner, my client was unable to move forward with the zoning

Similar wording

administratively to reinstate that duplex use here we have a photo of the exterior of the

Similar wording

property prior to the posting and here we have a photo of the posting of the property the property

Similar wording

was timely posted for the hearing and we do have more plans again this is a pre-existing duplex

Similar wording

use that we are looking to legalize we have the basement you enter from the first floor

Similar wording

there's a vestibule area you can make your right to enter the lower level unit which is a two

Similar wording

bedroom there's one bedroom in the front and one bedroom in the year rear with the living room and

Similar wording

kitchen and bath if you're going to the upper level unit you enter through the first floor and

Similar wording

you go up the stairs at which point you can enter the living room dining and kitchen area

Similar wording

there is one bedroom in the rear as well as a bath and then the third floor is available for

Similar wording

that unit as well with two bedrooms and here we have photos of the interior of the property for

Similar wording

the first floor unit and as contact my client did previously live in this property when she

Similar wording

initially purchased it and rented out one unit she has since moved out although she does live nearby

Similar wording

and she's currently listing both units so this again is a photo of the lower level unit

Similar wording

unit, the bedroom for that particular unit, another shot of the bedroom.

Similar wording

And here we have the rear yard that's available to that lower level unit.

Similar wording

This is also where trash is stored for that particular unit.

Similar wording

And here we have photos of the second unit on the second and third floors.

Similar wording

Here we have the home office, a photo of the kitchen and living area as well as a photo

Similar wording

the bedroom another photo of the kitchen area one of the bathrooms bedroom what's been converted

Similar wording

into a bit of a closet storage and here we have the notice that we sent out on october 29th

Similar wording

regarding the cba hearing that is scheduled for today at 9 30 as well as the community meeting

Similar wording

that was scheduled on november 12th a copy of the refusal was sent out with that notice again

Similar wording

we are looking to reinstate a pre-existing use for this property that was granted in 2001

Similar wording

most of the properties that were notified of that november 12th community meeting

Similar wording

the certificate of mailing showing that we did in fact send that notice out as required by the city

Similar wording

our application for appeal that was submitted in connection to this particular project

Similar wording

the project information form

Similar wording

and the deed um where my clients did best interest in the property

Similar wording

suits herself and her husband although she did initially purchase this property in 2004.

Similar wording

and our certificate of tax clearance so with that um if i can have my client amanda tersky

Similar wording

i believe she's in the virtual audience raise her hand

Similar wording

we share her hand

Similar wording

yes chair she's been allowed to speak hi could you please state your name and spell for the

Similar wording

court stenographer hi my name is amanda tersky a-m-a-n-d-a t as in tom you are s as in sam

Similar wording

ke you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

Similar wording

yes i do please proceed council amanda did you hear my presentation today yes

Similar wording

and was it true and correct yes and would you adopt it as your own testimony yes thank you

Similar wording

council there's there's no living space in the basement am i correct

Similar wording

that is correct all right thank you questions on the board

Similar wording

Did I hear correctly that the property was purchased by your client in 2000?

Similar wording

correctly that the property was purchased by your client in 2004 council yes my client purchased

Similar wording

the property prior to her being married in 2004 they were active indeed that was provided um

Similar wording

includes her husband how long did you stay here less than an hour ish ish please proceed okay

Similar wording

She invested in the property to herself and her husband in 2013, I believe.

Similar wording

I see.

Similar wording

So she lived in the property from 2004 to 2013, using it as, was it duplexed then when she purchased it?

Similar wording

Yes, it was duplexed then.

Similar wording

It's continuous use.

Similar wording

As I mentioned, the reason we weren't able to move forward administratively was because the rental license was not pulled at the time that we initially, or the prior owner, received the zoning permit.

Similar wording

But it has been continuously used as a duplex.

Similar wording

When she lived in it, she was renting one unit.

Similar wording

Thereafter, when she moved out, she rented out that first floor unit.

Similar wording

So it's always been a duplex dating back to 2001 when we had that zoning permit.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Okay. And you say that she was renting out the property before?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Yeah.

Similar wording

Yeah.

Similar wording

Yeah.

Similar wording

She was renting out one unit when she lived in it, which predated the requirement for the rental license.

Similar wording

Once the requirement was issued, she did not obtain the zoning permit.

Similar wording

She was, excuse me, the rental license.

Similar wording

She was unaware of that.

Similar wording

And so now we have to go through the zoning once again to legalize it properly and pull the rental license.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Other questions from the board?

Similar wording

Questions or comments from our attorney?

Similar wording

No, Chair.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Planning Commission.

Similar wording

Thank you, Chairman, and good morning.

Similar wording

David Fecto with the City Planning Commission.

Similar wording

Chairman and Board members, the comprehensive plan recommends no change

Similar wording

changed to the RSA 5 residential single-family zoning at this location.

Similar wording

The City changed the zoning maps in this neighborhood in 1998 in a community-supported map change.

Similar wording

At that time, the zoning of this property was zoned R10, which became RM1 residential

Similar wording

multifamily with the adoption of the new zoning code.

Similar wording

This appears to be a legalization of a previous legally constructed duplex.

Similar wording

the city planning commission recommends the board grant the requested use variants for two

Similar wording

dwelling units thank you mi 2023 005 586 1206 annon street i vote yes michael johns my vote is yes

Similar wording

cheryl gaston my vote is yes

Similar wording

tennetta you didn't have your mic on i'm sorry tennetta tennetta graham my vote is yes

Similar wording

Iowan, my vote is yes

Similar wording

Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes

Similar wording

Thank you, counsel

Similar wording

Thank you

Similar wording

All right, number five

Similar wording

MI 2023

Similar wording

005 621

Similar wording

254 South 54th Street

Similar wording

Joseph Consul is the attorney

Similar wording

There's a letter of non-opposition

Similar wording

from Cobbs Creek Neighbors

Similar wording

Chair, I don't believe

Similar wording

that I see Joseph Consul

Similar wording

in the virtual audience.

Similar wording

About P.S.

Similar wording

Investment.

Similar wording

No, Chair.

Similar wording

I do not see them in a virtual audience as well.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

So MI 2023-005-621-254 South 54th Street.

Similar wording

Cases continued.

Similar wording

Mark must be heard.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Six.

Similar wording

Number seven, MI 2023-007-092-789 South 2nd Street.

Similar wording

Harry Cook is the attorney.

Similar wording

Harry Cook has been promoted to penalist.

Similar wording

Good morning, Counsel.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Good morning, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Harry Cook, H-A-R-R-Y-C-O-O-K.

Similar wording

You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do, sir.

Similar wording

Mr. Cook, could you identify your client and the relationship to the property?

Similar wording

Yes, my clients are Vince Papale and Janet Papale, the owners of 789 South 2nd Street.

Similar wording

Vince Papale and Janet Papale, the owners of 789 South 2nd Street.

Similar wording

It is.

Similar wording

It is their principal residence.

Similar wording

Our vice chair has a few questions, sir.

Similar wording

Good morning, counsel.

Similar wording

Do you agree to weigh the reading of the refusal or stipulate to his ex?

Similar wording

Yes, I do, Mr. Shahid.

Similar wording

Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed and required to proceed with this case?

Similar wording

Five days in advance of this hearing.

Similar wording

Yes, I did.

Similar wording

Thank you, Mr. Cook.

Similar wording

Please proceed and share your screen.

Similar wording

Mr. Cook, just for a point of information, we do have a letter of opposition to the Queen Village Association.

Similar wording

And I understand you've had conversation with Hillary relative to this case and that this case will be held until we get revised plans. Am I correct?

Similar wording

That is correct. We have revised plans, but they have to be in the Z100 form for Hillary in order to be sent back.

Similar wording

Please proceed, sir.

Similar wording

Thank you. And as a point of clarification regarding the QVNA letter of opposition, it's an opposition to the eight-foot balcony, but they are in non-opposition to the as-built four-foot balcony, and we'll get into that as we proceed.

Similar wording

Thank you. Please issue.

Similar wording

So, good evening. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. I'm here on behalf of the Papales. They live at 789 South 2nd Street. It is their marital home.

Similar wording

They engaged a contractor to build an addition in the rear of the property with a balcony,

Similar wording

previously had a balcony, and they were represented.

Similar wording

It was represented to them that all permits were appropriate and all the work was within scope.

Similar wording

And as it turns out, it was not.

Similar wording

And we are seeking relief for what we consider a few de minimis dimensional variances.

Similar wording

and we'll get into that. First, I want to just go through an overhead of the block face.

Similar wording

On this block, you have about 10 properties facing 2nd Street. Eight out of 10 of them

Similar wording

are non-conforming lot sizes, including our property. We have about 1,100 square foot

Similar wording

property so that's going to impact um the open space uh refusal irrespective of what would be

Similar wording

built on this parcel um as you can see a lot of these properties have almost complete lot coverage

Similar wording

our property uh here at 789 uh has this balcony here but otherwise underneath the rear yard is

Similar wording

preserved. We're in the RM1 zoning district. So here are the plans that were reviewed by L&I

Similar wording

and refused. As to the eight-foot balcony, as you can see, it extends all the way to the property

Similar wording

line. In the proviso revised plans, nothing else has changed except this balcony is cut in half.

Similar wording

to show the as built condition and we'll go into some context of how that happened um if the board requires it but just know that the four foot balcony and the addition is nine foot six inches uh the neighborhood coordinating RCO is in non-opposition to that

Similar wording

um here's a rendering of the uh of of the property as you can see uh and from the overhead the lines

Similar wording

of sight to this balcony are very um not open by neighbors it's very private not going to be

Similar wording

peering over into people's properties, et cetera from the side. And again, we will get the proper

Similar wording

format proviso plans in. So as to the specific refusals, with the reduction in size of the

Similar wording

balcony from eight to four feet, we assert that the first refusal, the balcony extension will

Similar wording

disappear, but you'll still have the three remaining refusals. Balcony at rear yard,

Similar wording

balconies are prohibited in the rear front side and rear yard. Maximum occupied area shall be 75

Similar wording

feet, whereas we're proposing 83.7 percent coverage, and the rear yard shall be 144 square

Similar wording

feet whereas we're proposing 134.74 square feet um so you know again lni for the purposes of zoning

Similar wording

code measurement measures the rear yard encroachment from the exterior of the addition

Similar wording

even though it's not on the first floor the rear yard functionally is preserved it's usable

Similar wording

The rear yard functionally is preserved. It's usable.

Similar wording

The occupied area refusal, again, this is a non-conforming lot.

Similar wording

the occupied

Similar wording

Any addition that would be consistent with the other builds on the block would likely trigger this sort of refusal.

Similar wording

And in addition, there are other properties on the block that have greater coverage than this property.

Similar wording

And again, as you saw from the overhead, there are roof decks, there are balconies on this block.

Similar wording

The rear yard area refusal, we contend, is rather de minimis.

Similar wording

It's a 9.26 square foot variance from the code, and we would love the board to consider that in terms of how de minimis it is.

Similar wording

Here is a photo of the property from the outside.

Similar wording

It's a beautiful home.

Similar wording

Here is an angle shot of the as-built balcony.

Similar wording

balcony, and the area underneath that is private and usable rear yard.

Similar wording

Here's a side shot.

Similar wording

This addition is really to provide some additional storage space and a veranda, you know, to enjoy coffee in the privacy of

Similar wording

the backyard. Just some more shots of the house. This is not a rental. This is their home. They

Similar wording

take pride in it. They are an elderly couple who relied on a contractor to do what was right.

Similar wording

And now they have been left holding the bag. It's not like they were putting in additional units

Similar wording

and trying to make additional money.

Similar wording

This was just a straight-up dimensional issue.

Similar wording

In the packet, the deed is available for view,

Similar wording

our letters to the RCO, notification for our meeting,

Similar wording

proof of mailing, tax payment,

Similar wording

good through December 31st of this year.

Similar wording

And as to the specific letter of opposition from the Civic Association, I just want to go through a letter sent by one of their chairs.

Similar wording

On October 10th, we've attached our letter of opposition of the applicant's request for variance to construct a new eight-foot-deep balcony.

Similar wording

As you will see in our letter, the owner already had a balcony constructed that the zoning committee found acceptable, but is not shown on the drawing which generated the refusal.

Similar wording

Hence, we have the proviso plans in process in the Z100 format.

Similar wording

Here is the letter, again, highlighting while it's opposition, they consider the as-built.

Similar wording

provided that the owner has the work inspected, accurately documented, legally permitted.

Similar wording

All of those permit applications are pending the zoning approval. Without that, we can't

Similar wording

finish out updating the building permits, et cetera, in order to get the certificate of

Similar wording

completion on this project. With that said, I think under the circumstances, my clients meet

Similar wording

the condition of hardship that they did not create it under 14303. This is not going to

Similar wording

impact the neighbor's light and air. This is not going to burden infrastructure in the city of

Similar wording

Philadelphia. It's in harmony. Generally, you're allowed to have balconies. You're allowed to have

Similar wording

additions. And furthermore, under Hertzberg with the relaxed standard, this board is free to take

Similar wording

into consideration the context of the block. And again, these are all non-conforming. 80% of them

Similar wording

on the block base are non-conforming lot size. Most of them do take up either the same or greater

Similar wording

amount of coverage. And that's an important context issue. And furthermore, in order to

Similar wording

bring this into strict compliance with the code, that addition would have to be deconstructed by

Similar wording

about a foot and the balcony removed entirely, which would be a great expense to a couple who

Similar wording

reasonably relied on a contractor who are not developers who are just regular Philadelphia folk

Similar wording

and got caught up in the system with this so with that

Similar wording

And got caught up in the system with this. So with that, I'd like to, unless the board has questions for me, I'd like to call on my clients to adopt my presentation as their testimony.

Similar wording

Why don't you do that, Mr. Cook?

Similar wording

Thank you. Vince, Janet, please raise your virtual hands.

Similar wording

Vincent Peppel has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Mr. Papali.

Similar wording

Unmute yourself.

Similar wording

Hi, sorry about that.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the course stenographer?

Similar wording

Here we go. Vincent, V-I-N-C-E-N-T, Papelli, P as in Paul, A-P as in Paul, A-L-E.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, sir.

Similar wording

Please proceed, Mr. Cook.

Similar wording

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Papelli, did you hear my presentation to the board today?

Similar wording

Yes, sir, fully.

Similar wording

Was it true and accurate to the best of your understanding?

Similar wording

Yes, it was, sir.

Similar wording

Do you adopt it as your own testimony?

Similar wording

Absolutely, sir. Thank you.

Similar wording

Questions from the board.

Similar wording

Yes. Can you go back and show me where the entrance to the balcony is from the interior of the property?

Similar wording

Is it from a dining room? Is it from? I'm not sure if I can tell.

Similar wording

To the rear yard or to the addition?

Similar wording

To the addition?

Similar wording

The addition's on the second floor, so it's off the bedroom.

Similar wording

Oh, okay.

Similar wording

It's off the bedroom.

Similar wording

So this is the addition here.

Similar wording

You still have the space underneath, fully usable rear yard underneath, and it comes

Similar wording

off of a bedroom.

Similar wording

It's got closet space, and it's functional that way.

Similar wording

Okay, so can you show me the pictures?

Similar wording

Yeah.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Nice to see the pictures.

Similar wording

so is this a main bedroom yes this is off the master bedroom oh okay

Similar wording

so then to get to what you're coming to from the bedroom through these that's right

Similar wording

bank of closets that's right and then you can go out onto your your your balcony okay and

Similar wording

um all right and then uh the support through this is yes am i seeing

Similar wording

support for this because this is like second floor right yes so we had two meetings uh the

Similar wording

first one was in april and then the next one was in august uh the board from the uh oh there are

Similar wording

beams underneath, yes.

Similar wording

Oh, okay.

Similar wording

Yes, I'm not talking about support for community.

Similar wording

I'm talking about support for the...

Similar wording

I'm sorry.

Similar wording

Let me see where that is.

Similar wording

Just a minute.

Similar wording

So you can see.

Similar wording

They're still beams.

Similar wording

They're supported by steel beams

Similar wording

for the mission,

Similar wording

and the balcony is cantilevered.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Right there.

Similar wording

oh okay okay i see where the support system is okay here here here yeah yes yes all right okay

Similar wording

thank you thank you all the questions from the board can you confirm what year the edition was

Similar wording

completed the edition was completed in 2020 i want to say 2022 in june or august of june around

Similar wording

June-ish of 2022, and during that time period, there was a lot of interaction with LNI and

Similar wording

the contractor, and we do have open violations that in order to clear, we need to first get

Similar wording

the zoning, but in conversations with Inspector Robert Keenan, you know, he did feel that

Similar wording

the balcony and the addition will fit the context of the block.

Similar wording

and then can you expand on the nature of the of the failed inspections

Similar wording

sure so they all related essentially to um building permit beyond scope and so on and so

Similar wording

forth there you know that i don't know if that's necessarily a specific zoning question it's going

Similar wording

to have to be you know through the through the inspection process assuming this is granted uh

Similar wording

Through the inspection process, assuming this is granted, the building permit will have to be updated.

Similar wording

I...

Similar wording

There will have to be, you know, inspections to make sure it's up to the building code before the department issues a certificate of completion, which is akin to the certificate of occupancy for a new structure.

Similar wording

And then I'm just curious, was a structural engineer used to?

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

and that's all you know there's no unsafe order here there is no please you know we didn't have

Similar wording

to get a make safe in order for the department to to make their determinations it's just a straight

Similar wording

up don't have zoning don't have building permit but otherwise it looks good they were in there

Similar wording

throughout some of this process so yeah i'm not concerned and the department i don't think is

Similar wording

concerned about safety at this point.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Other questions

Similar wording

from the board?

Similar wording

Questions

Similar wording

from our attorney? No,

Similar wording

Chair. Questions or

Similar wording

comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

I see

Similar wording

no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Plany Commission? Thank you,

Similar wording

Chairman, and good morning, David Vecta with

Similar wording

the City Planning Commission. Chairman and

Similar wording

Board members, the comprehensive plan

Similar wording

recommends no change to the

Similar wording

rm1 residential multifamily zoning at this location um the dimensional variances for

Similar wording

occupied area and rear yard area are minor and in keeping with the purpose and spirit of the zoning

Similar wording

code the city planning commission recommends the board grant the proposed variance for a balcony

Similar wording

extending into the rear yard and grant the proposed dimensional variances for occupied area and rear

Similar wording

yard area. Mr. Cook, as we spoke earlier, we're going to hold the vote on this until we have the

Similar wording

revised plans. Thank you. I'm not sure of that, but if we have the revised plans by next Wednesday,

Similar wording

we'll vote next Wednesday at 9.30 a.m., okay? But everything else is closed on us other than

Similar wording

revised plans. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you, Mr. Cook. Yes.

Similar wording

Number eight, MI 2024-001-037, 4245 O Street.

Similar wording

Vern Anastasio is the attorney.

Similar wording

There's a letter of opposition from Juniata Park Civic Association.

Similar wording

there's also comments made relative to the rco the applicant also gave us i'm having some issues

Similar wording

with my volume please i noticed that sure go ahead can you hear it you can hear me i'm better

Similar wording

now right i talked about there is a letter of opposition from the rco um there's a lengthy

Similar wording

thing that apparently they wrote

Similar wording

and also there is

Similar wording

a petition in support

Similar wording

from 16, with 16

Similar wording

signatures on it. Just for the

Similar wording

record, could you please state your name and spell

Similar wording

for the stenographer?

Similar wording

It's Vern Anastasio, A-N-A-S-T-A-S-I-O

Similar wording

on behalf of

Similar wording

Elizabeth Cuevas

Similar wording

the RCO

Similar wording

Go ahead. Do you swear

Similar wording

or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing

Similar wording

but the truth? I do.

Similar wording

Vice Chair?

Similar wording

has a few questions for you good morning council do you agree to wait to read another refusal or

Similar wording

stipulate to advance i do have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's

Similar wording

needed and required to receive in this case five days in advance of this hearing yes i have thank

Similar wording

you council please proceed and share your screen thank you mr chair just for the record the rco

Similar wording

letter was a result of after two meetings um no one from the block attended none none of the

Similar wording

immediate neighbors attended the meeting that's when we went out went door to door up and down

Similar wording

the block and got the signatures of the 16 or so immediate neighbors who live on o street

Similar wording

42 45 0 is for the legalization of a two-family dwelling in an existing structure

Similar wording

as i said exhibit six uh that i move into uh evidence is a signed petition

Similar wording

of all immediate neighbors who live on Oath Street itself.

Similar wording

My client several years ago, during the height of the pandemic,

Similar wording

was diagnosed with cancer.

Similar wording

Her brother moved in to care for her.

Similar wording

Her brother moved in to care for her while she was fighting cancer, went through the chemotherapy treatment.

Similar wording

Wow.

Similar wording

In order to do that, they did build out the basement, which is a walkout sort of situation, into a separate unit for him to live and care for her.

Similar wording

And again, this was during the pandemic, 2020 and 2021.

Similar wording

Ever since, my client has lived in one unit, owner-occupied, and her brother lives in the other.

Similar wording

There's never been an intention to lease this unit out, and it is their intention to keep it family-occupied.

Similar wording

These are the photos.

Similar wording

I'll pull out of the plant a little bit here.

Similar wording

This is the first floor.

Similar wording

and the basement apartment.

Similar wording

Again, it's a complete walkout basement from the rear, 532 square feet.

Similar wording

There is ample trash storage and would have zero negative impact on the block or the immediate area,

Similar wording

which is demonstrated by the overwhelming support of people who live on the block.

Similar wording

there's the second floor by the way other bedrooms that are associated with the first floor

Similar wording

here's the rco notification that was mailed here are all the addresses was mailed to again

Similar wording

the meeting was very poorly attended 95 individual households were mailed which means

Similar wording

we have more than 10 percent

Similar wording

actually almost 15 percent of the impacted households who've signed that petition in support

Similar wording

here's the proof of posting

Similar wording

and the signatures that are moving into evidence along with the deed and other materials

Similar wording

mr chair because my client and her brother did this under mitigating circumstances during the

Similar wording

pandemic and as she struggles with her treatment and because they have no intention of leasing this

Similar wording

place out to anyone, but instead to keep it within the family. I'm requesting the granting

Similar wording

of this variance. With that, I'd like to have Elizabeth Cuevas raise her virtual.

Similar wording

Council, before we go to that, so in the letter from the RCO, right, they said the owner of the

Similar wording

property currently lives in Florida and a relative will be living in a space with a rental unit being

Similar wording

used and that at the meeting one of the residents of the block was present and stated so there was

Similar wording

somebody from the block at the i don't i don't recall there being anyone from the block in in

Similar wording

that meeting and my client lives in the building um yeah during the winter times during her recovery

Similar wording

when she could she would fly to florida but my client lives in the building and the other unit

Similar wording

it is for her brother. Okay, thank you. Yep. I don't remember anyone from the block being present.

Similar wording

You want to bring your client on? I did call her. Yep, Elizabeth Cuevas.

Similar wording

Elizabeth Cuevas has been allowed to speak. Good morning. Could you please state your name

Similar wording

and spell for the court stenographer? Elizabeth Cuevas, E-L-I-Z-A-V-E-T-H, Cueva, C-S-K-U-E-V-A-S.

Similar wording

Where or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, sir. Please proceed, counsel. Thank you. Elizabeth, did you hear my presentation to the

Similar wording

board this morning? Yes. It's true and accurate to the best of your knowledge.

Similar wording

yes and do you adopt it as your own testimony yes this this property is for you and your brother

Similar wording

this this property is for you and your brother is that correct yes and it was built out well

Similar wording

is that correct yes

Similar wording

in the middle of the pandemic while you were undergoing chemotherapy treatment is that correct

Similar wording

yes okay and you personally went door to door on your block you and your brother went personally

Similar wording

on the getting the signatures of everyone who lives uh surrounding you is that correct yes sir

Similar wording

yes thank you i have nothing further questions from the board

Similar wording

what's the ceiling height in this uh

Similar wording

basement here just under eight feet okay

Similar wording

so this is of course of course everything would have to be pursuant to the building code as well

Similar wording

if we were to get either a permanent or temporary variance here.

Similar wording

And so this is the variance request is for a two-family?

Similar wording

That's correct.

Similar wording

Just to legalize the build-out of that basement, the walkout basement.

Similar wording

But they'd still be subject to the building code and the CO process after this.

Similar wording

To be clear, we're legalizing construction that was done without a permit.

Similar wording

prior that is completed that's correct during during the covet crisis still without a permit

Similar wording

they were issuing permits during the covet wasn't wasn't easy to do oh and and yes uh but yeah

Similar wording

everything that i've presented has been stipulated to and then i just want to clarify because i feel

Similar wording

like you you it was unclear to me when you were presenting so the brother is living in the the

Similar wording

rental unit or the brother staying with your client in her unit and then there's an additional

Similar wording

rental unit that's also being rented out no there's nothing being rented out nothing's being

Similar wording

rented i know the she lives in her home uh during the covet uh shut down in the year you know the

Similar wording

year that was covet or so uh she was diagnosed with and been treated for cancer he then can

Similar wording

And during that process, he converted that basement so that he could stay with her.

Similar wording

And that's where it is.

Similar wording

Are there any other multifamilies on the block?

Similar wording

Only on the corners.

Similar wording

It's pretty much a single family block, correct?

Similar wording

That's correct.

Similar wording

Again, overwhelming majority of those owners support this petition.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Other questions from the board?

Similar wording

questions from our attorney

Similar wording

not at this time Mr. Chair oh Hillary Emerson is back yes questions or comments from the

Similar wording

virtual audience I see no hands at this time chair planning commission thank you chairman

Similar wording

and good morning David Fecto with the city planning commission chairman and board members

Similar wording

the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the RSA-5 residential single-family zoning at this

Similar wording

location. The city changed the zoning maps in this neighborhood in 2018 in accordance with a

Similar wording

community-supported map change. At that time, the zoning of this block face changed from RM-1

Similar wording

residential multifamily to RSA-5. The appellant requests two dwelling units while one is allowed.

Similar wording

This is a single family block face. There is no unique physical condition or circumstance of this property that would prevent it from being used in strict conformity with the zoning code. The City Planning Commission recommends that the board deny the requested use variance for two dwelling units.

Similar wording

Mr. Chair, if the board is so inclined, perhaps there could be some sort of owner occupied with proviso on the on the on the issuance of the permit so that he can remain there.

Similar wording

It would have been that owner occupied with one rental would have been legal under the previous classification of RM1.

Similar wording

so obviously it's going to be up to the board but i'm more inclined to make it a temporary

Similar wording

variance will expire in three years and to see how we stand with that very well mi 2024 001 037

Similar wording

4245 uh o street i vote yes temporary variance will expire 12 11 27. michael johnson my vote is

Similar wording

yes with proviso. Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes

Similar wording

with proviso. Senator Graham, my vote is no.

Similar wording

Taya Nguyen, my vote is no.

Similar wording

Ish.

Similar wording

Ish?

Similar wording

Bill Reword, 3-2.

Similar wording

That is correct.

Similar wording

The appeal is granted with the provisional.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Number nine.

Similar wording

Thank you, counsel.

Similar wording

Number nine, MI 2024-001-174-1819, Natrona Street.

Similar wording

There's a letter of opposition from Strawberry Mansion Community Development, and also Council Member Young has a position of neutrality.

Similar wording

Chair, I'm going to recuse myself from this case.

Similar wording

Yes, thank you.

Similar wording

Mr. Toppin.

Similar wording

Mr. Chair, we now have a second counsel on this matter that entered their appearance this morning. Steve Masters, on behalf of Neighbors, I guess he can explain who his clients are. So now we have two counsel. Thank you.

Similar wording

So, Mr. Toppin, could you identify yourself, please?

Similar wording

Yes, Sherman Toppin, last name T-O-P-P-I-N, at 1800 JFK Boulevard, suite 300.

Similar wording

Do you require a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

But you identify your client and the relationship to the property.

Similar wording

Yes, my client is Brian Watson.

Similar wording

Brian Watson, he is the sole member of the LLC, BJA, real estate LLC.

Similar wording

And he should be on the call.

Similar wording

I'm not sure exactly where he's calling from, but he should be on the call.

Similar wording

you stipulate to the reading of the refusal and agree with this accuracy i do mr masters please

Similar wording

good morning mr chair members of the board steve masters s-t-e-v-e m-a-s-t-e-r-s

Similar wording

or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

Similar wording

i do mr masters could you identify your client clients yes my clients um are the 1800 north

Similar wording

natrona street neighbors um and i know that uh the the leader of that um group um calvin williams

Similar wording

will be uh i will be presenting his testimony uh today and perhaps uh one or two other members of

Similar wording

the block. Thank you. Mr. Toppin, please start your presentation. Oh, could I, Mr. Chair, just before

Similar wording

Mr. Toppin starts, since I came on very late, I don't have a copy of the exhibit binder, and I

Similar wording

would appreciate receiving that from the staff at their earliest opportunity. And prior to logging

Similar wording

on, I did email that to you, Mr. Masters, so you should. Oh, great. Okay. But it'll be in front of

Similar wording

you as well. It'll be in front of you as well. Okay. So are you okay, Mr. Masters? You have?

Similar wording

Yes, I see it. Yes. All right. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. So my screen is shared. And again, I have

Similar wording

the pleasure of representing Mr. Watson here in this property. Well, this is going to be an

Similar wording

interesting presentation because it really has brought to the attention a change in the nature

Similar wording

of the block. And I think the board will begin to hear that. We represent, we're representing today

Similar wording

1819 North and Trone Street, as you can see the picture in front of you. As I move down through my

Similar wording

typical exhibit binder, we're going to go over the statutory things, things like the refusal deed,

Similar wording

which we've already stipulated to, application, project information sheet, maps and photographs,

Similar wording

plans. But we'll be focusing our attention on what took place at the RCO meeting that is brought

Similar wording

together that has brought with us actually two letters from the rco one in support which was

Similar wording

which was issued on december the 6th with a positive vote an overwhelmingly positive vote

Similar wording

in behalf of our of our um application and we also have a retraction letter from the rco so

Similar wording

it's the interim between these two letters that i think we'll be centering some attention on

Similar wording

But getting right down to it, we'll walk through our packet here. We're seeking simply a two-family household living in this particular residence. Right now, it is zoned for a single family, and that is the only refusal we'll be addressing today.

Similar wording

And here we have the deed for BGA in our Exhibit 2, in our Exhibit 3, our Application for Appeal,

Similar wording

which echoes what we'll be talking about today, Project Information Sheet, which is required.

Similar wording

The Exhibit 4 is basically that Project Information Sheet.

Similar wording

Five gives you a center of the ZBA map concerning the block. Here we are. The block only has 28 houses that front on North Natrona Street. Here's a large church here at RM1. But of this 28 houses is where all of the attention will be focused, I guess, as we proceed.

Similar wording

5 gives you a center of the ZBA Map concerning the block. Here we are.

Similar wording

and the other affected areas in the street um find are either not facing the trona and

Similar wording

uh many of those folks did not attend the rco meaning as a result our property is right here

Similar wording

from the roof line so we're looking at a block that has some sorry some blight behind it as far

Similar wording

as vacant lots there's about two vacant lots on the block and ultimately it's filled in with existing

Similar wording

homes. This is a visual of the block, I guess, looking east, I believe. Here's the subject

Similar wording

property off to your left hand of the screen, and on the reverse image is here. So it's a pretty

Similar wording

tree-lined block, very typical North Philly street-lined block, and parking only on one side

Similar wording

of the street, and this is North Nutrona. Our conversation is going to center on the subject

Similar wording

property which is unoccupied and no construction has occurred there it's not nothing has happened

Similar wording

in this in this particular property so here are some of the pictures from the so from the street

Similar wording

you'd see this as you walk in the front door you know it's it's basically a shell property as you

Similar wording

move through the property there is no nothing it's not habitable at this time as you can see

Similar wording

as we move through these photographs living room area just completely you know vacant and it would

Similar wording

need to be restored completely for living front door you can see hallway going up to the second

Similar wording

floor the photos tell a story of a property that needs complete renovation and that's what we have

Similar wording

here so you move up to the top floor you'll see again you know no area of the house is suitable

Similar wording

for residency at this time and um and again and if you go into the very rare of the property you

Similar wording

know the mechanicals have some aging but it's probably the only thing salvageable perhaps is

Similar wording

this furnace um don't even know if this hot water heater works and those are the sort of the interior

Similar wording

pictures getting right down down to the plans i'll make this smaller so that we can take a look at

Similar wording

what's proposed. And I think I'll have to make it a little bit smaller. So here, so

Similar wording

what is proposed, let me just move through here. This area is the first floor. So what

Similar wording

is proposed is as you walk onto the front porch here, that there will be two entrances.

Similar wording

One entrance, 101, that you can see indicated here, would move into where there's currently

Similar wording

a window that would that existing window would be there would be widened to the end there would be

Similar wording

a door immediately to the left of that window and you'd walk in and you have living room area

Similar wording

kitchen and the bathroom in the rear with the bedroom so this would be a studio walking

Similar wording

downstairs you'd see it's an unfinished basement there's nothing down there no bedrooms down there

Similar wording

no access only accessible to the lower level unit as you go from the porch again going upstairs you

Similar wording

have you come here and there's a kitchen with a living room area kind of open concept to the

Similar wording

front with a bedroom with its own bath in the back so that's bedroom number one climbing up

Similar wording

the steps you enter onto the third floor of the property where there are three bedrooms and two

Similar wording

baths one would have its own and this is a sort of an ensuite on the top floor rear and the front

Similar wording

it'd be a shared bath between this bedroom which could be a bedroom or just a sort of a small room

Similar wording

could be a child's room or a bathroom and then there's the front bedroom on the third floor

Similar wording

so the layout is is very typical and the layout would match the same roof line as as well as the

Similar wording

the presentation that you see all up and down that street so there would be no difference in

Similar wording

how it appears as you can see even looking at this this will end up being a five uh one two

Similar wording

three four five bedroom house if it were single family the variance that we seek we believe that

Similar wording

this is a this is a block that uh the in for it to be renovated completely and for it to be

Similar wording

economically feasible to do so we believe that this particular block um that this configuration

Similar wording

allows for it to be done in a manner that is appropriate for just the owner to make actually

Similar wording

not lose money on his particular investment i'm sure there's arguments for and against that people

Similar wording

people say you can do any kind of house and it'll sell in the city but this my client wants to

Similar wording

house and it'll sell in the city. But this, my client wants to present living that will

Similar wording

present.

Similar wording

enable people who reside in this neighborhood to live in this neighborhood and to rent in

Similar wording

this neighborhood. People who are young, young people or young families would not be purchasing

Similar wording

or looking to rent a basically a five bedroom house. But in this configuration, it allows for

Similar wording

the house to be accessible to people with modest means and so on. So this is part of the reason

Similar wording

and the reason that rationale for this particular property be renovated as it is so let's talk about what happened next in the RCO meeting that took place that was noticed this is our notice there was 102 as you can see from this map addresses that that were received our notice of this application but only 28 of those actually front north in the troner others are blocks behind and blocks around fronting on 33rd street or Montgomery

Similar wording

summary, and those folks had not shown as much interest in this particular application.

Similar wording

These are labels from the addresses that we mailed to and the proof of mailing that went

Similar wording

out for each and every one of those 102 residents.

Similar wording

So we had the RCO meeting, and this is, before we even get to that, in this exhibit is basically

Similar wording

that pictures of the posting of the ZBA hearing notice on the front door of the property.

Similar wording

and the client had some difficulty getting actual a tax cert we have proof that he owes that he's

Similar wording

paid all these taxes so this is just um we'll we can we can supplement the record with the tax cert

Similar wording

the typical tax cert but um other than that there are zero taxes owed by jba and we can assert we

Similar wording

can prove that so what the exhibit that i have now the the rco meeting just turning our attention

Similar wording

to what happened there on October the 21st was very well attended. It was not one of those

Similar wording

meetings where nobody showed up. This was a meeting where there was almost 40 people on that call

Similar wording

from this street and from the RCO. My client and myself were the only two that were

Similar wording

from us. The rest of the people were from the community as well as the RCOs. In that particular

Similar wording

meeting, we obtained a, we went through it and there was vigorous testimony from one group in

Similar wording

particular. I think the gentleman, Mr. Masters' client, who will be talking perhaps later,

Similar wording

he actually came on the RCO meeting and then testified that he's a guardian for single family

Similar wording

on the block. Like that was his opening, showing a picture of him and various folks sitting with

Similar wording

him and he proceeded to to say that that this block should not be anything but that and that's

Similar wording

his his position um and and and we we respected that and we understood that and we expected to

Similar wording

see the people who supported him to be in that meeting because he so vigorously presented that

Similar wording

position he went on to say that he himself owns a three-unit or multi-family property on the same

Similar wording

street so in in his in as perplexing as that might sound that's exactly what he presented that he has

Similar wording

the only multi-family on the block and he doesn't want anyone else to do so and upon asking him well

Similar wording

if he's so vigorously opposed to a multi-family property why would he not revert his to a single

Similar wording

family. He had no great action. I'm going to object to hearsay at this point. Mr. Williams is going to be

Similar wording

testifying. We'll let him testify, but counsel, why don't you finish, Mr. Toppin?

Similar wording

Sure. And as we were getting down to the vote, which is our last page here,

Similar wording

sorry, there were 30 people in the meeting. 12 were in support and only two were opposed. I think

Similar wording

the final vote, this letter was a bit confusing because it has, I guess, you know, vote counts

Similar wording

on both lines. It looked different here. But again, there were 12 in support and there

Similar wording

were four opposed and five abstained. And this was the meeting. And at the end of the

Similar wording

meeting, we received this letter from Reverend Williams saying to us that although we were

Similar wording

successful in the vote that some others that had called him afterwards and that he wanted us to

Similar wording

reconsider and withdraw basically which my client wasn't inclined to actually do but in any event

Similar wording

that was what took place we got this letter we submitted it accordingly but then yesterday we

Similar wording

received a letter of opposition from the very same RCO with the same count I called and I call I'm

Similar wording

sure if mr masters will call reverend williams today but he spoke to me he told me that some

Similar wording

people had called him wouldn't identify who and that he reversed his position as a result of

Similar wording

those calls i told him that if if he entertained the calls or the or other individuals

Similar wording

that if if he entertained the calls or the or other individuals then then the those in the rco

Similar wording

meeting and was changing his opinion as a result of that because we've got 12 people from that

Similar wording

street who voted in support that we should have the opportunity to do the same he he didn't have

Similar wording

any really good answers to that but we did believe that he was very good the meeting was very well

Similar wording

um modulated by moderated by him but this after piece was a surprise to us and and that and I

Similar wording

voiced that to him and he said that he basically felt that the community's strenuous the calls that

Similar wording

he received afterwards changed his opinion basically and I don't know there was no other

Similar wording

RCO meeting he's at the board met and reversed as a result of his receiving calls after the RCO

Similar wording

meeting between our our vote and we had no opportunity to go and present there so

Similar wording

ultimately this is not any more complicated than that i think there there may be a number of people

Similar wording

that are here today to voice their their opposition or paint or or support on either side but our

Similar wording

folks were present they they were present in the in the duly conducted meeting and both rcos not

Similar wording

just the main rco but the second rco had all of their people there and you see the outcome

Similar wording

of the those that attended that rco meeting so the the council person has has been neutral as

Similar wording

with respect to this particular property because i think there is this question of what happened

Similar wording

that night and what has happened since um i'd like at this time to bring that that is the i guess the

Similar wording

the testimony that I plan to prepare,

Similar wording

but I'd like to ask Mr. Watson to adopt my testimony

Similar wording

and bring him forward to ask any questions

Similar wording

that the board may have of him.

Similar wording

Mr. Watson, if you are in the virtual audience,

Similar wording

please raise your hand.

Similar wording

you're watching

Similar wording

brian watson has been allowed to speak please unmute yourself

Similar wording

good morning sir could you please state good morning could you please state your name and

Similar wording

spell for the court stenographer brian watson b-r-y-a-n-t w-a-t-s-o-n

Similar wording

All right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed, Counselor.

Similar wording

Oh, yes. Mr. Watson, have you been listening to the testimony that I've been making on behalf of yourself and this zoning application?

Similar wording

Yes, I have.

Similar wording

And is it true and accurate as to your hearing?

Similar wording

Yes, it is.

Similar wording

And would you adopt it as your own if you were testifying?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Okay. At this point, I'd like to welcome any questions that the board may have.

Similar wording

or a cross-examination, Mr. Masters, may I?

Similar wording

Mr. Masters, do you want to cross?

Similar wording

Yes, thank you.

Similar wording

Mr. Watson, is it true that you own two properties

Similar wording

next to each other on this block?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

And is it also true that the property next door to 1819,

Similar wording

you went before the zoning board just a few, a year or so ago,

Similar wording

looking for a duplex at that location?

Similar wording

18-21, I was turned down on that property.

Similar wording

I went through the process, the RCO.

Similar wording

We didn't get a vote, but they said they opposed.

Similar wording

So, yeah, so I went, instead of continuing my ZBA,

Similar wording

I went on with the ZBA meeting.

Similar wording

But the RCO, we never got a chance to vote.

Similar wording

There was no vote.

Similar wording

So they sent a letter of opposition, but there was never no vote.

Similar wording

All right, but let's just try to clarify this.

Similar wording

So 1821 North Natrona, that's the location that you tried to get a duplex in 2023, is that correct?

Similar wording

Yes, it is. Yep, that's the one I just explained to you.

Similar wording

And when you went to the zoning board, they voted, they denied you the variance, isn't that correct?

Similar wording

They denied for opposition from the RCO.

Similar wording

they made a decision do you have did you get a zoning permit for a duplex at 18 at 1821 masters

Similar wording

he's the property was denied he agreed to that okay uh and at that point do you do you recall

Similar wording

that council president um clark was in opposition of of your application i don't know who was i don't

Similar wording

know the relevance um i don't know the relevance mr master a denial is a denial

Similar wording

So let me go to the next question. Mr. Watson, this was in 2023. Has anything changed between 2023 and today?

Similar wording

this was in 2023 has any has anything changed between 2023 and today on this block uh to change

Similar wording

the the situation for your property now at 1819 and the property at 1821 is there any difference

Similar wording

in the block from 2023 to today yes what's the difference the difference is i was i got a letter

Similar wording

of approval from the rco i'm talking about physically on this block has anything changed

Similar wording

in terms of how many folks have single-family homes on the block,

Similar wording

things like that.

Similar wording

Has that changed at all?

Similar wording

I wouldn't know if anything changed.

Similar wording

I don't know who else.

Similar wording

Like, I only go through my ZVA hearings and my RCO mix.

Similar wording

I don't know if anybody else was approved or not,

Similar wording

so I wouldn't know that.

Similar wording

All right, so your testimony is you have no information

Similar wording

that anything has changed since 2023.

Similar wording

I just told you, yes, something changed.

Similar wording

The RCO, I passed.

Similar wording

I won from last year to this year.

Similar wording

i i was approved i got a letter of support that's what changed

Similar wording

i understand but i'm talking about on the block physically on the block there's no differences

Similar wording

you asked me the same question over and over again i i i yeah mr masters i think he said

Similar wording

he don't look at anything other than what he owns so why don't we move on yeah all right i have no

Similar wording

further questions so so sherman instead of opening up to the board i'm gonna let mr masters put his

Similar wording

and then we'll open it up to the board and the public all at one time, okay?

Similar wording

That's fine. That's fine, Mr.

Similar wording

Mr. Masters, would you please make your presentation?

Similar wording

Sure. I'm going to just do a brief opening and then I'm going to call Mr. Calvin Williams as my witness.

Similar wording

So, members of the board, this case, an exact duplicate of this case occurred in front of you in 2023.

Similar wording

At that point, the board composition was different, and one of the board members was actually the head of the RCO who was opposing this, creating a duplex at 1821.

Similar wording

um so we now are are faced with the exact same situation this this individual has bought two

Similar wording

houses on this block uh apparently with the intention to convert single-family homes into

Similar wording

into duplexes uh and despite the fact that that the block uh was made it clear that they did not

Similar wording

want him to do that in 2023 he's come back again and it appears that the the people who were coming

Similar wording

to that rco meeting in support of him were not from the block they were from farther away

Similar wording

objection there's been no evidence that these members were not from the block

Similar wording

that's the evidence i will be presenting with my witness why don't why don't why don't we hold up

Similar wording

on what you said and if you have a witness let your witness testify okay sure um

Similar wording

All right, let's go for, let's call Mr. Calvin Williams.

Similar wording

Calvin Williams, if you are in the virtual audience, please raise your virtual hand.

Similar wording

Calvin Williams, is he allowed to speak?

Similar wording

Mr. Chair, can we promote him to panelists?

Similar wording

calvin williams has been promoted to panelists

Similar wording

good morning could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

Similar wording

yeah yes uh good morning my name is calvin williams c-a-l-v-i-n williams w-i-l-l-i-a-m-s

Similar wording

we're a firm to tell the truth the whole truth is nothing but the truth

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed, Mr. Masters.

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

Can I ask that Mr. Toppin stop sharing his screen at this point?

Similar wording

I will.

Similar wording

And can Mr. Williams, are you able to turn on your video?

Similar wording

It's automatically on, but I can't see myself here.

Similar wording

I don't know how to do that.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Um, Mr. Williams, uh, can you, um, share with the board, uh, where you live and how long you've

Similar wording

lived at that location? Yes. Uh, uh, my name is Calvin Williams again, and I've been living

Similar wording

at that location for 30 years, 1814 North Nechona street.

Similar wording

So are you across the street from, from the house that we're, that we're here for today?

Similar wording

Yes, I am.

Similar wording

Directly on an angle across the street from both of the properties.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Let's first address the blight issues that were raised by the attorney for the applicant.

Similar wording

He claims that there are two houses that are blighted on this block.

Similar wording

Can you describe what this block looks like and if there are any houses that are blighted?

Similar wording

Can you describe what this block looks like and if there are any...

Similar wording

There are no blighted houses as far as our block is.

Similar wording

There was a fire across the street from me a year ago that completely destroyed Cush's house, and it's gone now.

Similar wording

The two neighboring properties were damaged also. The one that's right close to it is in the process of getting insurance and redoing it.

Similar wording

The property next to it has been completed. All the damages have been done and the families moved back in.

Similar wording

And I would add that both of those properties right across the street from me are new members of our block, new single family members of the block.

Similar wording

And one of them has brought into our block our first born new child, and I don't know how long, as a single family homes, both of them.

Similar wording

So, Mr. Williams, did you ever have any kind of leadership role on the block, like a block captain or something?

Similar wording

Yes, I had been the block captain for a very long time, and we kind of tried to pass that on and give everyone an opportunity.

Similar wording

But when I first moved in the block 30 years ago, I took it upon myself to be a good civic neighbor like everyone else I was always taught and clean the front of my house.

Similar wording

And matter of fact, the Moore Street next door, I spent the first six, seven months to two years in cleaning the block because traffic from people would bring the johns there and I had to clean up herphalastics and all that.

Similar wording

And it was through that effort that the elders on the block tapped my shoulder to become the block captain.

Similar wording

And that's when I became totally active in that part.

Similar wording

So let's talk now about the two houses, the 1819 and 1821 North Natrona Street.

Similar wording

Are you personally familiar with those two properties?

Similar wording

Yes, I am.

Similar wording

before the attorney mentioned a picture

Similar wording

that I held up at the RCO meeting.

Similar wording

It was a picture of six of seven of our elders

Similar wording

that we had honored on the block years ago.

Similar wording

They're no longer with us that we honored.

Similar wording

And I just wanted them to see the picture

Similar wording

of the people that been on that block.

Similar wording

In that picture was the parents

Similar wording

of the latest owners and neighbors across the street, the Tuesdays, the house that is in

Similar wording

question now. And the house next door is also a picture near of the McCalls, the two old

Similar wording

traditional families on the block. And the last ones that were within those homes were their

Similar wording

relatives, both sons of those deceased parents, were the last persons in the house. Now, who owns

Similar wording

it now outright? I don't know. I only know the Tuesdales, and I only know the McCalls,

Similar wording

and those were the ones that left their properties to their children, and now we are in,

Similar wording

well, that's where I'm at with that. There's nothing wrong with those properties.

Similar wording

Okay. So I'm showing you now a copy of a form that the applicant, says Brian Watson, doing business as BJA Real Estate LLC, submitted to the RCO, the Strawberry Mansion CDC.

Similar wording

and i'm going to the second page and um it says it's uh the question is briefly describe the

Similar wording

intended structural adjustments and or additions to the property and it says the property is

Similar wording

already configured as a two-unit residential household this application is to legalize that

Similar wording

use no structural adjustments or additions are needed so um mr williams is are either or both

Similar wording

of those houses that we were talking about, 1819 and 1821, are either or both of those

Similar wording

already configured to be a duplex?

Similar wording

I have no way of knowing specifically, but from the outside and the times that I have

Similar wording

been in both of those houses with my neighbors, the only thing that I've seen had changed

Similar wording

in there is that they had made the property adjusted for people to age in place. Both of

Similar wording

Both of the homeowners there had gotten to the point that they couldn't get around.

Similar wording

the homeowners there had gotten to the point that they couldn't.

Similar wording

They moved.

Similar wording

They made bathrooms on the first floor.

Similar wording

I don't know about the upper floors, but they made adjustments in their home in order to be able to age in place.

Similar wording

That's all I know, and that's all I've seen in the times that I have been in there prior to the children having sold the property.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Now, have you been inside?

Similar wording

When was the last time you were inside 1819 North Nostromo?

Similar wording

I was inside that property just before Bunny left.

Similar wording

That's the son of the Tuesdales.

Similar wording

I was in his home in there because he had some minor problems himself and getting around.

Similar wording

He had had surgery with his eye and all those things.

Similar wording

So it was handy that he was able to utilize the property because of the bathroom downstairs and all those other things.

Similar wording

And so I was in the property. And the condition I've seen on there was, it wasn't looking like that, but it was livable. And that was up until less than a year or so ago.

Similar wording

All right. Let me address what the counsel for the developer said in his remarks, that you supposedly own a three-unit property and that you don't want anyone else to have one. How do you respond to that?

Similar wording

Well, when I moved on the property, the next door was three units. It wasn't not long after that, they moved out. Someone was in the process and it was just laid there.

Similar wording

It was a fire. There was a fire in that property. I got nervous because I'm a new neighbor. I just moved next door. I am next door to the property that we're talking about that is zoned as three units. And that was done back in 1956 or something like that.

Similar wording

But in dire fright of my property getting damaged somewhere down the line, I sought out the owners of that.

Similar wording

And through a process we went through, I did all I can to flood all of my savings and everything to be able to purchase that property in order to save my property.

Similar wording

I have not done anything with that property, but just try to keep it from being an eyesore to the neighborhood with some adjustments and all that, because I have no idea when and where I'm going to do with that property.

Similar wording

Hopefully, my grandchildren, my grandchildren, as a matter of fact, come in to visit me this weekend and her husband.

Similar wording

Hopefully, I can get those guys to be able to help me make a decision.

Similar wording

That property was purchased by me and my wife in 1997.

Similar wording

And it's still there. It's not an eyesore. And I've been through years out of pocket just trying to keep it looking decent so it doesn't bring down the rest of our neighborhood. And hopefully in the future, I'll be able to develop it in a way with my family that I'm living next door to. We will not be absentee landlords or absentees anybody. So go ahead.

Similar wording

thank you all right let's talk about the rco meeting uh you heard uh the council for the

Similar wording

developers say that there were a whole lot of people there who were supporting it not too many

Similar wording

opposing it um but there was some kind of a change with um the letter from the rco um tell us what

Similar wording

you saw when you were at the rco meeting and who was who did you who could you identify from the

Similar wording

block, and who did you not be able to identify? I am sure there are some people that is on

Similar wording

this Zoom meeting there from my block. And as it was described to me after the RSEO meeting,

Similar wording

was that, who are those people? If you take another look at the photos that was just presented,

Similar wording

our street is like a u-turn most people don't know that we're there and that's why we were

Similar wording

able to survive all of this time you come down burke street and you make a turn you have to

Similar wording

make another u-turn to come out of it no one ever ever comes down that street unless they're part of

Similar wording

the family they know somebody in the family and they're visiting and there's no other reason to

Similar wording

be there it's not a shortcut the place it's not a shortcut you just come in and you make a u-turn

Similar wording

and you're out. Now, the Moore Street that's on the other side of us is literally the alley for

Similar wording

Montgomery Avenue. They have no alley. The houses are backed up against the street.

Similar wording

Mr. Masters said, let's try to concentrate on this.

Similar wording

Mr. Williams, can you focus on the RCO meeting and what you saw happen and who you saw vote

Similar wording

which way we did not know those people from the from the graph that he showed the of us

Similar wording

We did not know those people from the from the graph that he showed the way they sent letters to a lot.

Similar wording

A lot of those houses are empty. No one's there is just nothing there.

Similar wording

We don't know who those folks are. And we know that we have put a petition together with all the names of the people on our block from 20 from 1821,

Similar wording

when they came before the zoning board before saying that we didn't want that.

Similar wording

We thought it was a done deal and it was over.

Similar wording

So these people, we don't know where they come from.

Similar wording

So from your observing the people on the Zoom for that meeting, did you know who the neighbors were on your block and how they voted?

Similar wording

Objection.

Similar wording

I recognize.

Similar wording

I will object to that.

Similar wording

Mr. Calvin is not the RCO.

Similar wording

He does not maintain the roster, and the roster is not in his possession.

Similar wording

He's already testified that he didn't know.

Similar wording

Mr. Masters, I agree with that, Mr. Masters.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Was there something about the Reverend Williams, the way he ran the meeting, that concerned you at that RCO meeting?

Similar wording

um how can i i've been to previous the rr so ceo meetings and the the the quorum and and and things

Similar wording

that were put in a place and established was uh great i i just don't know whether we had fair

Similar wording

opportunity for everyone to speak make this point and identify themselves as who they were and where

Similar wording

they were where they live and what the addresses were and and and and i again i'm saying i cannot

Similar wording

from where i was identify anybody from our block of nearest near neighbors

Similar wording

i i it's not for me to keep explaining this like this yeah yeah i mean i think we're starting to

Similar wording

repeat mr masters we're starting to repeat all right is there anything else that you wanted to

Similar wording

add mr williams i i just wanted to say that the opening lines again when you say the the tree

Similar wording

lined uh block was typical of of in philadelphia i want to say our neighbors uh together and work

Similar wording

with the uh the philadelphia horticulture society to have trees planted and every tree that's on

Similar wording

that block is implanted in front of our elder older neighbors homes every uh store front of

Similar wording

a house that has reflective addresses were put together by the block. Everyone that has a lamppost

Similar wording

that has a lamp on it was done by the folks on that block. We have been close together like that

Similar wording

and we're not asking anything unusual. We want to keep a single family units on there. If you build

Similar wording

it they will come period because we have two new neighbors that have mr mr top mr top and you want

Similar wording

to cross just a few questions um well well for first uh mr williams um it's good to to hear you

Similar wording

again you are you're you're very consistent in your advocacy for your block that's the kind of

Similar wording

advocacy that this board is is impressed by and i'm impressed by so but at the same time mr williams

Similar wording

I wanted to go over some of the things that you've said.

Similar wording

Number one, you did confirm that you own currently a three-unit building on that house on North

Similar wording

Metrona Street.

Similar wording

That's correct, right?

Similar wording

That's correct.

Similar wording

And have you rented that?

Similar wording

Is that a rental property?

Similar wording

No, never, ever.

Similar wording

Never, ever.

Similar wording

It's a vacant property as we speak.

Similar wording

That's what you're representing to the board today?

Similar wording

Yes, yes.

Similar wording

But you did not represent to the board that you intend on converting that to single family.

Similar wording

Is that what you intend to do?

Similar wording

I don't know what I want to do.

Similar wording

I have the prerogatives to do that.

Similar wording

But again, Mr. Williams, you're not saying to this board, and you didn't say in the RCO, so you're consistent there, that you intend to make sure that your own property is single family.

Similar wording

I'm going to object because there has nothing to do with this application.

Similar wording

and it's and it's harassing the witness okay hold on so i'll move on from that but

Similar wording

sherman want to move on to a different question i will yes yes so mr mr williams you did not

Similar wording

circulate a petition for an 1819 north natrona street on the block prior to this rco meeting

Similar wording

isn't that's correct that's correct we had already did one for the next door property

Similar wording

You did not do one since the meeting. After the vote was in the favor of the applicant, you did not circulate another as the block captain to show exactly what the support is. That's correct, right?

Similar wording

as the block captain to show exactly what the support is that's correct right no i did not do

Similar wording

that okay so after his rco meeting just looking at mr reverend williams is um his uh summary

Similar wording

there were five there were four people sorry four that opposed one of which was you um and you

Similar wording

recognize of course those people those are the people that you're referring to from the block

Similar wording

that are in support of you isn't that correct i i don't understand what you're asking me

Similar wording

the RCO meeting that you attended that we were all present for in that vote there were only four

Similar wording

that opposed this only application that we're here to talk about you were one of those four

Similar wording

so that means only four people from your block that you mentioned that you're the block captain

Similar wording

of appeared to vote in I'm objecting he he didn't testify he's the block captain now he said he was

Similar wording

in the past but he hasn't been the block captain for many years but i i i think i think the real

Similar wording

question is was there just four people from the block period yeah that's a better question that's

Similar wording

a better question okay i cannot really identify anyone but myself because the meeting progresses

Similar wording

no one signs in of who they are and where they live in the block and everyone did not have an

Similar wording

opportunity to be able to speak and so so i have no idea how other than breakdown than my well i

Similar wording

just that's that's it just no idea please yes okay great and now you are you know mr mr watson

Similar wording

mr captain miss williams i don't know her no i know i do not know him personally i know the

Similar wording

truesdales and i know the mccalls okay and um so as as you as you sit here today you you've referred

Similar wording

used the word we several times in your testimony um the we i imagine you're referring to are other

Similar wording

neighbors on north natrona street is that correct correct okay are are those we part of the four

Similar wording

people that opposed at the rco meeting no idea i have no idea okay or to your knowledge are there

Similar wording

people associated with this meeting hearing today that are waiting to testify because of your

Similar wording

advocacy i would hope so okay how many people do you think are in support of your position

Similar wording

mr williams when you refer to as we who are you referring to exactly i i can't i i can't explain

Similar wording

this to you unless you lived on the block where we live you saw it it's small it's not those many

Similar wording

houses we've all grown up that's my point that's we as family you know but you but you know them

Similar wording

all mr williams or do you do you not know them all i i know i know most of every single one of

Similar wording

my neighbors on it even some of the newer ones that have come to our block i've known i've reached

Similar wording

out to them i've reached out to them well mr williams you you've said again you've reached

Similar wording

out to the neighbors you you've mentioned that you are representing a we or a group

Similar wording

how many of this group are you actually representing today beside yourself

Similar wording

that's a in my mind of mine that's a crazy question i can't answer no no no no in the way

Similar wording

that i did you can't answer the question don't answer the question yes well i have no further

Similar wording

questions from miss williams i think it's clear thank you thank you very much um mr masters do

Similar wording

you have anyone else um i do not okay um questions or comments from the board

Similar wording

question was a uh summary sheet uh submitted uh from the meeting

Similar wording

yes yes miss gaston um that is the last exhibit on i'm actually on that let me share my screen once

Similar wording

again okay this is the summary sheet that is in front of you here as you can see the final

Similar wording

position taken and that and that would say how many attended yes 30 people were at the meeting

Similar wording

um 12 support four opposed five abstained and does it say um anything um i can't

Similar wording

it's a little small okay i'll make it i'll try to make it bigger here

Similar wording

It is not broken down in two critical ways.

Similar wording

It's not broken down.

Similar wording

Well, what it does state to, thankfully, it states that both RCOs, it says participating RCOs, and they list both of them.

Similar wording

So this is the count of both RCOs and the letter that is the consolidation of all people present.

Similar wording

And this is what you see.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

And then with the, was there, and again.

Similar wording

uh was there and again there was then and there was a letter that was

Similar wording

attached yes and i'm going to move into that here here is the letter that is that's the initial

Similar wording

letter this is the initial letter it says as coordinating rco strawberry mansion cdc is

Similar wording

issuing this letter of support of the meeting held for the above reference preference uh reference

Similar wording

um property referenced above to family use and it goes into it and it did also say that

Similar wording

okay we so then the letter in opposition was there a summary uh form with that um i i don't

Similar wording

the vote count in what have you it's the there's they did not revise from my understanding the

Similar wording

letter of support of opposition that was issued yesterday simply sort of repackages some things

Similar wording

that mr williams has said about the neighborhood and and it presents no new vote count it's simply

Similar wording

a different letter with the same with because there was no new vote count and there was no

Similar wording

polling and there was no petition that would support a total change of position from one in

Similar wording

the 10 days that between you know yesterday and and the sixth so we're perplexed by what took place

Similar wording

and and who contacted mr williams and or and how and mr williams said that people did contact him

Similar wording

i'm not sure if mr williams was one of them um sorry there's two there's reverend williams i

Similar wording

should say so i don't know exactly what pressures he had but he felt so inclined to to reverse the

Similar wording

position which was perplexing to us um mr chair we we don't have we don't have a copy of the of

Similar wording

that second letter up and and i haven't seen it so i'm hoping that that someone can display that

Similar wording

the second one was signed by reverend williams yes yes so i think i'll make sure you get a copy

Similar wording

okay yeah you should you should have a copy since it was signed by your client and and i apologize

Similar wording

i do have a cop an email with it i didn't put it in this presentation i thought mr masters would be

Similar wording

putting it into perhaps his with with but he's recently engaged so

Similar wording

thank you um and and that's that's my questions thank you any other questions in the board

Similar wording

question has there been any um issue raised uh that there was an improper mailing or folks

Similar wording

weren't notified of the original rco leading there's there's always no one in the rco meeting

Similar wording

said that they did not receive the letter. In fact, everyone that was there did. We presented this. I don't just do the one page. I actually physically, personally do these certificates of mailing. So when they come out of our office, I mean, I have every letter that went out physically handed to. So I know they went out. It's not, you know, I presented this to Mr. Reverend Williams a week before 10 days or 11 or 12 days before the RCO meeting.

Similar wording

so there was no objection as to that

Similar wording

I don't think that was the issue

Similar wording

that was it

Similar wording

that was my question

Similar wording

questions from the board

Similar wording

questions or comments

Similar wording

from our attorney Hillary Emerson

Similar wording

not at this time

Similar wording

Mr. Chair

Similar wording

questions or comments from the virtual audience

Similar wording

yes Chair

Similar wording

I have a hand up by the name of

Similar wording

Whitney Blake they have been allowed to

Similar wording

speak

Similar wording

could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer hi can you hear me i can hi good

Similar wording

morning my name is whitney lake do you need my first and last name spelled out please could you

Similar wording

please do that hi my name is whitney blake uh first name uh letter is w as in walter h as in

Similar wording

harry i as in igloo t as in tom n as in nancy e as in edward y as in yellow and my last name is

Similar wording

Blake. Last name B as in Boy, L as in Larry, A as in Apple, K as in Kevin, E as in Edward.

Similar wording

You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.

Similar wording

I do, sir.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes, sir.

Similar wording

Please proceed.

Similar wording

Hi, I am a resident of 1818 North Nutrona Street. I am directly across from both residences

Similar wording

that both Mr. Tippin and Mr. Watt are petitioning for. First of all, I want to say that Mr.

Similar wording

Mr. Calvin, Mr. Calvin, who I call him Mr. Calvin Daly,

Similar wording

he is one of the elders on our block

Similar wording

and I am one of the children.

Similar wording

One of the things that Brian Watson has brought up in previous meetings that we have had with the RCL and the zoning board and through the Starry Mansion meeting is the fact that he is a child of the block.

Similar wording

One of the things that Brian Watson has brought up

Similar wording

in previous meetings that we have had with them

Similar wording

I currently live on this block. I was raised on this block. I am currently 37 years old.

Similar wording

And I just want to refer back to the exhibit that Mr. Tiffin had shown on his screen a few minutes ago, stating those on the RCO board or those in the meeting that agreed upon this message that all those people, no, no, it says current resident.

Similar wording

If you want to go up, keep going.

Similar wording

And when I list all the addresses of those who attended the meeting, who approved the building, keep going, please.

Similar wording

Keep scrolling up, please.

Similar wording

scroll faster please so i can i want to make sure everybody can say what they want

Similar wording

so if you once he gets to there you'll see that a lot of the addresses listed are all of those

Similar wording

addresses are for current residents of other blocks i am a resident of 1800 metrona street

Similar wording

um and i want to say i have a few things my main concern and this has been exhausting overall from

Similar wording

those on my block, specifically for me because I live across the street, and I have heard the

Similar wording

barrage from both Mr. Watson and his previous counsel, along with the ethical practices. I

Similar wording

have concerns about from everyone on the petitioner's side regarding how they have

Similar wording

carried themselves from this meeting and prior meetings. During the last meeting, the petitioner

Similar wording

included individuals who voted in favor who are not residents of this block. I live here. I'm a

Similar wording

resident here. My mother owns the lot next. So him touting that, oh, Mr. Calvin owns a property.

Similar wording

I live here. We see the effects of building and property on our street. And I won't stand for it.

Similar wording

I question the intentions of why they're doing this. I question also the underhanded tactics.

Similar wording

Those who approve. Okay. So why don't, listen to me. So why don't, so you're against this project?

Similar wording

absolutely and mostly before the plea of reservation for excuse me for preservation

Similar wording

for this block a lot of what they're going to tell is that they went around about this the

Similar wording

right way they did not those who approve and he's still not showing it if you can scroll up there is

Similar wording

i don't i don't have that document yeah i don't have that document is on there if you scroll up

Similar wording

sherman sherman hold on hold up she's talking about your mailing oh oh i also want to say

Similar wording

that I'm a resident of this block

Similar wording

and not one letter was sent

Similar wording

to anyone. I did not receive it.

Similar wording

I work from home. I am home

Similar wording

all the time. Mail comes to me,

Similar wording

I bet, those right there, current residents,

Similar wording

33rd,

Similar wording

33rd and Montgomery.

Similar wording

People who are not residents of this block are making

Similar wording

decisions for those who are on this block

Similar wording

and I don't appreciate that.

Similar wording

Listen,

Similar wording

that's where he mailed, that's where he mailed

Similar wording

to and I guess

Similar wording

the question,

Similar wording

Listen to me. We have other people want to testify. It's real clear where you stand with this. Am I correct?

Similar wording

Yes, I'm sorry. I apologize. I'm very passionate, and I don't appreciate how...

Similar wording

I understand. So we thank you very much. We understand where you stand.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

I have a question for Sherman.

Similar wording

I just wanted to know if she intended the RCO meeting that we had, Ms. Blake.

Similar wording

i think she said she didn't receive the mailing oh okay no further questions

Similar wording

other hands tyrone williams has been allowed to speak good morning reverend williams please

Similar wording

state your name and spell for the stenographer good morning chairman bergman and the board

Similar wording

good morning to both attorneys and good morning to a one on the line my name is tyrone reverend

Similar wording

tyrone williams tyrone t-y-r-o-n-e williams w-i-l-l-i-a-m-s you swear or firm to tell

Similar wording

the truth the whole truth is nothing but the truth reverend yes i do please proceed okay uh first

Similar wording

off uh the letter that was up was for 3144 euclid it was not the letter for 1819 and he put that

Similar wording

letter up as evidence. So that is not the original

Similar wording

letter of support that I sent. That is for another

Similar wording

property. He presented on two properties that night, one of

Similar wording

them being 3144 Euclid. So that's the

Similar wording

letter. That is not the correct letter.

Similar wording

Secondly, our conversation, excuse me,

Similar wording

secondly, I never asked y'all to withdraw.

Similar wording

what our conversation was

Similar wording

because I was getting

Similar wording

so much

Similar wording

pushback from the nearby residents

Similar wording

who felt they were being ignored

Similar wording

I asked you to ask your

Similar wording

client would he consider

Similar wording

building a single family.

Similar wording

building a single family

Similar wording

and I said to you

Similar wording

And I said to you that it will sell

Similar wording

that it will

Similar wording

because Habitat for Humanity just did a huge project

Similar wording

around the corner with a bunch of single families

Similar wording

and they all sold.

Similar wording

You expressed to me that your client

Similar wording

wasn't interested in doing that.

Similar wording

And the clientele he was interested in it written to,

Similar wording

Section 8 and students and others.

Similar wording

And I explained to you that, you know,

Similar wording

the block has been the way it's been for years. Secondly, I want to talk about the 12 that voted.

Similar wording

Prior to voting, and anyone on this line can confirm this, I ask everyone to identify themselves

Similar wording

even through their phone numbers. I call out last numbers. I call out names. I try to make sure

Similar wording

everyone in the RCO meeting know who is on the line for transparency. I also, when I host these

Similar wording

meetings, ask for the nearby residents to have a say, and which they did. Thirdly, the reason for

Similar wording

the retraction is because I didn't do due diligence, and I will say that. I didn't go back

Similar wording

to my records for 1821 North Neutrona, which I believe I may have been the chair of that

Similar wording

meeting as well.

Similar wording

And the same pushback came at that time in 2023 because I looked through the paperwork

Similar wording

and checked everything out, including finding the letter for former Council President Darrell

Similar wording

call it. I spoke

Similar wording

with my boy

Similar wording

here at the CDC about

Similar wording

this because it was complexing to me

Similar wording

and I was, they

Similar wording

instructed on me what to do.

Similar wording

I will say

Similar wording

this.

Similar wording

Mr.

Similar wording

Toppin

Similar wording

did talk to me about

Similar wording

how is it fair that 12 people

Similar wording

could support it and

Similar wording

you not get it. Well, you have

Similar wording

five abstains

Similar wording

that didn't want to even bother with it and four opposed and the others that voted i can't tell you

Similar wording

where they came from because i don't have anything on zoom that told me anybody's address or give me

Similar wording

anything i go on people being honest while they're on the line identifying themselves saying who they

Similar wording

are so everyone in the meeting know who they is. The reason for the retraction is because we at

Similar wording

the CDC is supporting the nearby neighbors of that block because it's a block that can be easily

Similar wording

densified and we are currently dealing with that in Strawberry Mansion and we don't want to see

Similar wording

more density if we could prevent it. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Williams.

Similar wording

and sure sherman you have questions i think mr williams was very accurate in in how he conducted

Similar wording

the meeting was actually the rcu meeting was actually well conducted and that was notable

Similar wording

and but the issue still remains mr williams that only four raised their hand to oppose

Similar wording

in that meeting of a block of 28. four one of we're going to object that that's not a question

Similar wording

for cross-examination well well mr mr williams you but i yeah so so i think you can ask the

Similar wording

question if sure relative just four people on the paperwork so mr williams that that that is correct

Similar wording

what you indicated on as far as the vote count for in as far as directly opposing when you ask

Similar wording

for the vote that is correct isn't it that's correct but i also want to just uh bring miss

Similar wording

whitney's testimony to light and which she said did she did not even receive a letter of the

Similar wording

meeting and she is a current resident in the block and i don't know how many others may not

Similar wording

have received the letter and that well well what what is what is true mr williams and you know this

Similar wording

for a fact that calvin williams who is on the is the block captain and he was very job to mail

Similar wording

mr top and it's your job and i did to mail to all the current no ideas and the block and

Similar wording

and it's reverend reverend reverend reverend yes sir let's let's go back so the position

Similar wording

reverend williams so where you understand your position right now you're in opposition

Similar wording

we are in opposition correct does anybody else have another question for the reverend

Similar wording

I don't turn the world to your you're through. There's no, there's no thank you. Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you, Reverend. Anyone else in the virtual audience? Yes, chair. I have three hands remaining.

Similar wording

Gwendolyn Blake has been allowed to speak

Similar wording

Gwendolyn Blake has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

I could

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Hello.

Similar wording

Hi.

Similar wording

Can you hear me?

Similar wording

Good morning.

Similar wording

I can.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

My name is Gwendolyn Blake.

Similar wording

As G as in girl, W-E-N-D-O-L-Y-N.

Similar wording

Last name is Blake, B as in boy, L as in lake, A as in apple, K.

Similar wording

as in kite, ee, as in eel.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth,

Similar wording

nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes, I am.

Similar wording

Are you in favor of this project or against?

Similar wording

I'm against.

Similar wording

Thank you very much for taking the time to call.

Similar wording

We appreciate it.

Similar wording

Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Clayton Brothers has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

And could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Clayton Brothers, C-L-A-Y-T-O-N-B-R-O-T-H-E-R-S.

Similar wording

Where are we affirmed to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I am a neighbor.

Similar wording

I'm from the neighborhood.

Similar wording

Yes, continue.

Similar wording

Are you in favor of this project or against?

Similar wording

I am in favor of the project.

Similar wording

I am a like-minded from the community born and raised.

Similar wording

I am an active realtor.

Similar wording

I am also an investor.

Similar wording

I have several properties that I do run out to lower-income families.

Similar wording

I do have several multi-units surrounding that I run out to lower-income families.

Similar wording

And I'm a person that's in the neighborhood, and I'm revitalizing the neighborhood so I can rent back to the neighborhood and not tease anybody out the neighborhood.

Similar wording

So thank you very much.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Does anyone have a question of Mr. Brothers?

Similar wording

Yes, Mr. Brothers.

Similar wording

Do you live on that block of Natrona Street?

Similar wording

When I asked that question before, he said he was in the neighborhood.

Similar wording

You have a question for me? I'm here.

Similar wording

Yeah. Do you live on the 1800 block of Natrona?

Similar wording

No, I don't live on the 1800 block of Natrona.

Similar wording

I live on the 2100 block of Stanley Street, born and raised.

Similar wording

Just answer the question.

Similar wording

No.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Thank you. And, uh, next hand, please.

Similar wording

Calberry mentioned community concern has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for a court stenographer?

Similar wording

Never mind.

Similar wording

Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Can you hear me?

Similar wording

Yes. Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes. My name is Keith Smith.

Similar wording

I'm not a resident of Natrona, but I live directly across Natrona.

Similar wording

Hold on, hold on.

Similar wording

Could you please spell your name for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Keith Smith, K-E-I-T-H-S-M-I-T-H.

Similar wording

You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

And you're a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes, I am a neighbor.

Similar wording

I live on Euclid Street, directly across from Natrona Street.

Similar wording

I know many residents on Natrona Street.

Similar wording

All right, listen to me.

Similar wording

Are you for or against this crowd?

Similar wording

Thank you very much for taking the time to call us. We appreciate it. Is there anyone else in the audience?

Similar wording

Yes, Chair. I have six hands remaining. Strawberry Mansion Community Concerning has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Okay. Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court sonographer?

Similar wording

Hi, good afternoon. My name is Bonita Cummings. B as in boy, O-N-I-T-A, C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S.

Similar wording

you swear or affirm you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the

Similar wording

truth i do i was in attendance wait a minute no no no listen to me listen to me listen to me

Similar wording

are you in favor of this project or against opposed thank you very much we got quite a few

Similar wording

other hands i have to get ahead of the of the affected rco she's one of the she's one of the

Similar wording

rcos i i think i know who she is i think i know miss cummings do you do you have anything you

Similar wording

want to add but we just got to get to quite a few other people i just wanted to add that again there

Similar wording

were three um meetings going on for that particular uh meeting many of the people voting

Similar wording

were people voting from as far away as 29th and Diamond.

Similar wording

There was some, even in my own process,

Similar wording

confusion around the vote

Similar wording

because it was difficult to really hone in

Similar wording

on the people directly affected,

Similar wording

which were the Natrona Street residents.

Similar wording

There were at least,

Similar wording

there was a household with three of our seniors in it

Similar wording

There was a household with three of our seniors in it that were voting from separate homes who may or may not have been counted, and that would increase that number.

Similar wording

that were voting from separate homes.

Similar wording

So it really may not have only been four.

Similar wording

So it's a block that did come out to oppose the position, and many of the votes came from far away.

Similar wording

Those 12 votes are not from people who are directly affected within that 250 feet of that particular address.

Similar wording

There were three locations going on.

Similar wording

So, Mrs. Cummings, I hear what the lawyer said.

Similar wording

Okay, I just wanted to add that.

Similar wording

I know.

Similar wording

I know.

Similar wording

I think that's important to know who remained on the call.

Similar wording

I understand, but I think what he's saying is you just can't figure out who was there and who was not there, although I know all the mailings.

Similar wording

Is there anything else you want to add?

Similar wording

no i think it's all pretty much been said thank you and thank you for taking the time to call we

Similar wording

appreciate next hand please timothy young has been allowed to speak hi could you please state

Similar wording

your name and spell for the stenographer timothy young please unmute yourself

Similar wording

could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

Similar wording

Timothy Young, T-I-M-O-T-H-Y-Y-O-U-N-G.

Similar wording

Swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes, I am.

Similar wording

Are you for this project or against?

Similar wording

I'm for it.

Similar wording

Thank you very much for calling.

Similar wording

We appreciate it.

Similar wording

Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Bria Rome has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Bria Rohn, B-R-I-A-R-H-O-N-E.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Are you for or against this project?

Similar wording

Four.

Similar wording

Thank you very much for taking the time to call us. We appreciate it. Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Chair, I currently have four hands remaining.

Similar wording

Cush Pettaway has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Hi, I'm Cush Pettaway, C-U-S-H-P-E-T-T-I-W-A-Y.

Similar wording

Where or firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Are you in favor of this project or against?

Similar wording

I'm in favor.

Similar wording

All right, and you're a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes. I actually own the property that recently, well, a year ago, burnt down 1813 North North Carolina Street.

Similar wording

Thank you very much. We appreciate you taking time to calls. Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Erica Jones has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Good afternoon. My name is Erica Jones, E-R-I-K-A. Last name Jones, J-O-N-E-S.

Similar wording

You swear or firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes, I am.

Similar wording

Are you in favor of this

Similar wording

prosecutor or against?

Similar wording

I'm in favor.

Similar wording

Thank you very much for taking the time to call us.

Similar wording

We appreciate it. Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Stephanie Reynolds has been

Similar wording

allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Never mind, Chair.

Similar wording

Ken Ellis has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name

Similar wording

and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

can ellis please unmute yourself

Similar wording

next hand please hello hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

Similar wording

my name is kenneth ellis k-e-n-n-e-t-h last name ellis e-l-l-i-s and i'm in favor of this project

Similar wording

all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

Similar wording

yes and your neighbor yes all right next hand please sure this is our last hand stephanie

Similar wording

has been allowed to speak i could you please state your name and spell for the court sonographer

Similar wording

hi my name is stephanie reynolds that's s-t-e-p-h-a-n-i-e-r-e-y-n-o-l-d-s

Similar wording

we're a firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes um are you a neighbor

Similar wording

i'm a community member are you for or against this project i'm for the project

Similar wording

thank you very much for taking the time to close we appreciate it planning commission

Similar wording

Thank you, Chair Bergman, and good afternoon. David Fecto with the City Planning Commission.

Similar wording

thank you chair bergman and good afternoon david effecto with the city

Similar wording

Chairman and board members, the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the RSA-5 residential

Similar wording

single-family zoning at this location. The City changed the zoning maps in this neighborhood in

Similar wording

2014 in accord with recommendations in the comprehensive plan. At that time, this property

Similar wording

had been zoned single-family since 1967. In 1967, the zoning changed from R9, today's RM1,

Similar wording

residential multifamily, to RSA5. This property received a use variance and use permit for three

Similar wording

dwelling units in 1956. What we don't know is how long this property has been vacant.

Similar wording

As the board knows, after three years of vacancy, a previously approved variance may expire. We are

Similar wording

aware of other legally non-conforming duplexes and triplexes on this block face dating to the

Similar wording

1950s. However, the majority of the homes on this block face remain single-family. The City Planning

Similar wording

Commission recommends that the board deny the proposed use variance for two dwelling units.

Similar wording

So, Mr. Toppin, Mr. Masters, there's been a lot, obviously, a lot of testimony today relative to

Similar wording

this case. I'm going to take this to executive session next Wednesday. We will vote on it at

Similar wording

930 a.m. Okay. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you both for Mr. Masters. Please stay on.

Similar wording

Okay, I know I want to apologize to the board that the exhibit letter had 3122. It was an identical letter, but apparently, so I apologize. I understand. Thank you very much. Mr.

Similar wording

Okay. So, MI 2024-001-519-2128, Ridge Avenue. Mr. Masters is the attorney. Just state your name for the record, please.

Similar wording

Steve Masters, S-T-E-V-E-M-A-S-T-E-R-S.

Similar wording

Do you identify your client and the relationship to the product?

Similar wording

Yes, my client is Kikmak, LLC, K-I-K-I-M-A-C, and the principal is George Camu, G-E-O-R-P-E-K-A-M-A-U.

Similar wording

We have a letter of support from Brewerytown, Sharswood, seven in support for abstain. Do you stipulate to the reading of the refusal and agree with this accuracy?

Similar wording

Yes, I do. But I do want to do it. I will explain a bit about.

Similar wording

Oh, sure. Sure. Why don't you proceed?

Similar wording

all right uh screen get onto my screen

Similar wording

and all right we're going to start with

Similar wording

all right good afternoon now members of the board um steve masters for the applicant um

Similar wording

George Camo doing business as KICMAC LLC. So what we have today before you is a proposed

Similar wording

mixed-use project. First, there was a demolition. This is the property as it used to exist.

Similar wording

It was considerably bladed. It has been demolished. And what's proposed is to construct a new

Similar wording

structure with the first floor being commercial and then the upper floors being residential

Similar wording

apartment units. This would be a buy-write project if it was four units above the commercial

Similar wording

because it's a mixed-use zoning. But we are proposing six units, and I'll explain why

Similar wording

shortly. The only refusal is for the fifth and the sixth units. If the mixed income bonuses

Similar wording

applied to this property, we also would be by right even for the six units because of the

Similar wording

density bonus, because we are proposing that one of these six units will be low income,

Similar wording

affordable for a five-year period of time. But the mixed income bonuses don't apply to this portion

Similar wording

of North Philadelphia, so we're back to asking you for some variances.

Similar wording

Like I said, one of the six units will be designated as low-income affordable. We will

Similar wording

be recording an affordable covenant with the deed to that end and in order to economically create

Similar wording

this low-income affordable unit and what we are describing as naturally occurring

Similar wording

affordable housing for the rest of the five units because

Similar wording

affordable housing for the rest of the five units, because this location, as you'll see,

Similar wording

is saturated with PHA housing, and that has resulted in a natural depression of the market

Similar wording

rates for rents in this local area. So all of our rents will be considered affordable from the

Similar wording

moderate income area, but the community made very clear that they wanted at least one unit to be

Similar wording

affordable on the low income side. And so we went and agreed to that. So we'll just look at the

Similar wording

photos briefly. So as I said, this is what it used to look like from the front facade off of

Similar wording

ridge. This area used to be this pasture area, but there's a large multifamily big development

Similar wording

happening that I believe could be almost 80 or 100 units happening right next door.

Similar wording

This is across the street of our property. Again, it's mostly open space because of

Similar wording

so many of the properties have been demolished. This is the rear of the property. This is what

Similar wording

the blighted garage used to look like this is a new constructed building next door to our property

Similar wording

uh this is our rendering of what uh the property will look like from the from the

Similar wording

from ridge street facing the property uh this building uh is remaining we we we do not we do

Similar wording

not own that part um and then this is the rear uh the new rear of our property which used to have

Similar wording

blighted garage now has a very attractive uh brick and then uh and then a gray facade above

Similar wording

and this is the new construction next door to us um this is the side so over here is ridge back

Similar wording

here is beechwood and um this is no longer going to be like i said pasture uh and open space um

Similar wording

this will this is where but right here we wanted to show you where the receptacles will be for

Similar wording

for trash and recycling uh so now i'm going to go to um our rco support

Similar wording

uh our um coordinating rco is brewery town um sharswood and uh there was um unanimous support

Similar wording

from the community uh with without with there were some abstentions but everyone who voted

Similar wording

There were no votes against this project. In their letter, they appreciated that the developer is going to cap the rent of one unit at 30% of a tenant's income for the first five years.

Similar wording

They asked us for 10 years to use the 10-year tax abatement, but we explained to them in our presentation that the 10-year tax abatement is now really a five-year tax abatement because every year it steps down by a 10% point.

Similar wording

So we are using the savings from the 10-year tax abatement, but it really only amounts to five full years of being able to provide that affordable housing.

Similar wording

In addition, the community asked us to, well, let me just say the unit sizes, and I'll show you the plans in a moment.

Similar wording

The units are quite modest in terms of size.

Similar wording

um the the rent limits for um affordable uh for moderate income um housing according to the city's

Similar wording

um uh charts it would be one bedroom would be 1292 bedroom is 1548 um the rents that we are

Similar wording

anticipating are both below the the moderate income affordable rates um so that these are

Similar wording

are market rates and they're below the moderate income affordable rates. But as the community

Similar wording

pointed out to us, the moderate scale doesn't really jive with the level of poverty inside

Similar wording

Philadelphia. So we've gone below that for the single one. We also have a trash management plan

Similar wording

that we put together, we're going to have commercial trash pickup and recycling.

Similar wording

And we're going to provide information during the construction phase to all of the near

Similar wording

neighbors and, as I said, the single unit that's going to be affordable.

Similar wording

We did a whole presentation to the RCOs and the neighbors about the mixed income levels

Similar wording

and how to look at affordability and what was possible.

Similar wording

We also then created a community benefits agreement between Kikmak and Brewery Town Sharswood that...

Similar wording

between Kickmac and Brewery Town Starswood that primarily addresses the one affordable rental unit for the five years on the low-income aspect.

Similar wording

And we're using the language here that is used typically for city-created affordable rental unit properties.

Similar wording

This is not we we looked into getting some support from the housing trust fund.

Similar wording

We were told that wasn't possible for a private project.

Similar wording

So we're doing the best we can with the resources that we have.

Similar wording

We're also going to have we're going to record an affordability covenant with the Department of Records for this address so that it is it is completely accountable in terms of this this one set aside.

Similar wording

And BSCCA or its designee will have the right to conduct audits, like the city has the right to conduct audits for affordable units that are done through the land bank or the redevelopment authority.

Similar wording

We also are going to use best efforts to hire local folks during the construction phase.

Similar wording

And we're going to, like I said, have a local waste management company for the trash disposal and recycling.

Similar wording

blame. So now let's go to the plans. All right. So got to go this much smaller. Okay. So here's

Similar wording

our site plan. This is the rear beach wood. This is that side yard that we saw where the trash

Similar wording

reciprocals are going to be. This is the front onto ridge, so it's quite narrow at the front

Similar wording

and the rear and quite long on the sides. This is our rear elevation and our front elevation.

Similar wording

and these are these are additional views of the rear and the front elevations

Similar wording

the ground floor is going to be the commercial space we haven't determined which business so

Similar wording

it's it's going to be um momentarily vacant um and then um the the next floor up um the next

Similar wording

the two floors um uh above the commercial are basically have the identical uh floor plans which

Similar wording

is um two bedroom uh a two bedroom unit a um a one bedroom unit and then uh a two bedroom

Similar wording

unit. So the two-bedroom units are on each end, and the one-bedroom unit is in the middle.

Similar wording

And that's the same for the top floor. Two bedrooms, one bedroom, and then two bedrooms.

Similar wording

We also, in our packet, have our... Oh, sorry, we have the zoning posters.

Similar wording

um this these show the today's date for the hearing whoops

Similar wording

there we go you can see it's today and uh then we have the the the deed uh the uh application

Similar wording

for appeal the the project information form and our proof of mailing uh this is our we we did two

Similar wording

rounds of of community meetings so we mailed the first one with the proof of mailing and then we did

Similar wording

a we handed out a um a flyer door-to-door uh

Similar wording

there it is, to all the neighbors and to the businesses.

Similar wording

And we, it keeps popping up.

Similar wording

And these are all the addresses that we mail to and our proof of mailing.

Similar wording

At this time, I wanted to call on my client, I'm George Camo, to adopt my testimony.

Similar wording

and could you please state your name is spelled for the stenographer uh george come out g-e-o-r-g-e-k-a-m-a-u

Similar wording

you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

Similar wording

yes i do please proceed counsel uh mr come out you um you heard my testimony

Similar wording

Please proceed, counsel.

Similar wording

Mr. Kamau, you heard my testimony this afternoon.

Similar wording

Do you agree with it and do you adopt it as your own?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Is there anything more that you wanted to add to the board at this point?

Similar wording

No.

Similar wording

Questions from the board.

Similar wording

Can I see the floor plans again?

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

And can we make them a little bit bigger?

Similar wording

Let's see.

Similar wording

Also, while you're showing them, can you point out which is the unit that you were, that your client was intending to designate as affordable?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Sorry, let me.

Similar wording

I seem to have lost all my.

Similar wording

Okay, there it is.

Similar wording

Um, all right, so, plans 28.

Similar wording

um miss gaston did you want to see the actual floor plans the apartment floor plans yes the

Similar wording

floor plans thank you all right this is the commercial and then there is the floor plan

Similar wording

so this is the two-bedroom unit

Similar wording

that's designated as unit a and then unit b is a one-bedroom unit how many square feet

Similar wording

are we talking about here?

Similar wording

Unit A is 600 square feet.

Similar wording

Unit B is 385 square feet.

Similar wording

And Unit C is 582 square feet.

Similar wording

The floor above that's the same exact numbers?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And which unit is currently designated?

Similar wording

We have not designated a particular unit, but we anticipate it's going to be one of the two one-bedroom units.

Similar wording

So it'll either be unit D2 or, they're both listed as, so it's either going to be unit B or unit E.

Similar wording

Other questions from the board?

Similar wording

I have a question. Is there a delineation from the commercial trash and the residential trash?

Similar wording

Like what they have the storage, because if it's a commercial, maybe they perhaps they will have a dumpster, whereas apartment units may have trash cans.

Similar wording

So could you show that area? And what's the delineation from the commercial use on the first floor to the residential use on the upper floors?

Similar wording

um sure so the

Similar wording

this area and how would the residential units get access to the to have access to the trash

Similar wording

they all have access to the trash through um through a gate here um at the rear of the property

Similar wording

uh the the um the area for the for the um for the commercial um actually i'm going to ask for

Similar wording

my client to to clarify that because i i haven't had that question before

Similar wording

um mr camo can you come back um can you raise your hand again

Similar wording

George, Camille, please unmute yourself

Similar wording

Sure

Similar wording

The residents can access the trash through a door

Similar wording

If Steve, you could go down to the next page

Similar wording

I could show that

Similar wording

Yeah, right on that page right there

Similar wording

This is the commercial area

Similar wording

Right, right. So Doe 1, I don't know if you can see Doe 1 on that hallway. This is the intent.

Similar wording

Door one, I don't know if you can see door one on that hallway.

Similar wording

This is the intent is to be able to bring the trash out through the back because the community required asked that if we could put the trash in the back.

Similar wording

So the idea is to put the trash in the back.

Similar wording

As you can see from the picture that we have, we put the trash in the back.

Similar wording

So the commercial and the residential will be able to use the trash in the back.

Similar wording

And the community does not want us to use public, the city trash.

Similar wording

They want us to get commercial trash.

Similar wording

And so that is what we told the community we would do.

Similar wording

I have a few other questions.

Similar wording

One, is there a residential lobby?

Similar wording

And like, where is like mail storage, package drop off?

Similar wording

Is there a location for any of that?

Similar wording

Yes, so that will be by the entrance.

Similar wording

We haven't figured out how we'll put it on there, but, you know, everybody has to get mail, but it will be somewhere in the front.

Similar wording

In the front area here.

Similar wording

That front area.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Somewhere around this door at the edge of the property that leads to the stairs is the thought?

Similar wording

It won't be back there because there should be a door for security to make sure nobody can just walk in.

Similar wording

So somewhere in between there will be a door.

Similar wording

Okay, and then, can you explain why you chose to do six units instead of the four that are by right? One, I just want to point out, like, the units are a little small, especially the public, like, the living area and the public space areas. And so it does feel like it was a little bit squeezed into the building. And I'm just curious as to.

Similar wording

so like like steve said uh in in the community this community is largely owned by pha pha office

Similar wording

is right across the street so they go ahead oh i was gonna say yeah uh that that part i was aware

Similar wording

that was just trying to figure out why you were putting six units in this specific building so

Similar wording

So because PHA owns everything around that neighborhood, they have pushed down rent.

Similar wording

So you cannot charge $1,800 to live in that neighborhood because everybody else is paying $1,400 or $1,500.

Similar wording

So what that has done is has made it just a little harder to be able to make money out of having this building.

Similar wording

So to be able to build this building, so we would like to squeeze in an additional two buildings in there so maybe we could be able to make it financially possible and also to be able to give more space or more apartments to the community at a reasonable cost.

Similar wording

close at the temple they do have the three thousand dollar apartments but they're a little

Similar wording

bigger well putting a three thousand apartment in this part of the city will will basically

Similar wording

reduce the amount of people that can afford that kind of money so having you know having more space

Similar wording

and dividing the cost sounded like a good idea okay and then i know you said the community wanted

Similar wording

to see you to be affordable and you seem to be interested in sort of offering an affordable rent

Similar wording

to the neighborhood are you are you familiar with the concept of fair market rent uh yes okay um and

Similar wording

i'm just wondering like one the fair market rent for this area is 1200 which is set by hud which

Similar wording

is what governs the pha rents that you were sort of uh acknowledging um and did you consider any

Similar wording

other affordability program like did you section 8 like there's multiple other subsidy programs

Similar wording

that are available make units uh you know permanently or long-term affordable and did

Similar wording

you consider any of those uh yes we considered a lot of them uh section 8 um we use section

Similar wording

8 already so we don't have a problem with it we also try to talk to um um a few offices in

Similar wording

the city that could give us funding but most of them said they wouldn't do it for private so we

Similar wording

were looking for other options to reduce the cost of rent um whatever we could get but we are open

Similar wording

to taking pha vouchers and to do that the unit um as the community agreed uh to uh the 30 percent

Similar wording

okay but like currently there's no plans right now to try to get either vouchers on this building

Similar wording

or to advertise this as Section 8?

Similar wording

We haven't got to that point, but we are open to Section 8.

Similar wording

I do Section 8, and I'm open to Section 8.

Similar wording

And then, have you ever done marketing to tenants that live at 30% of AMI or below?

Similar wording

And then have you ever done marketing to tenants that live at their...

Similar wording

So, and or property managed?

Similar wording

So, at this point, no, but this is what we are putting on, this is what we're putting on the deed that we will do that going forward.

Similar wording

So the plan is to do a deed restriction through a separate agreement, obviously, is zoning. We can't provide that. But that is the agreement you've worked out with the RCO.

Similar wording

Yeah, we worked that out for a five-year period. We then went to the council member's office to see if we could extend it beyond the five years, but there didn't seem to be any way at this moment for a private project to be able to receive funding from the Housing Trust Fund or from other public sources.

Similar wording

So we're doing the best we can with what's available to us.

Similar wording

And did you consider the affordable housing density bonus?

Similar wording

Yeah, it's not available in this area.

Similar wording

Council President Clark put in an overlay some years ago and took away that option.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Could you tell me again how much space is in the commercial?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

It's close to 1,700 square foot.

Similar wording

And your hardship is that you want to have this much density in this space because you want to provide affordability?

Similar wording

Yeah, our hardship is that the extra two units provide enough revenue to make the project work from an economic perspective and that we're basically preserving naturally occurring affordability for all of the six units because PHA suppresses the market rates.

Similar wording

But because of that, we need we need all six units because we can't we can't make a higher market rate for for a smaller for a smaller number of larger units that that wouldn't that wouldn't be sustainable economically for this particular location.

Similar wording

So we wanted to create an economically sustainable project that adds the extra units.

Similar wording

All around here, and I didn't have some of the photos, but when we went around with the leaflet to all the residents around there, there are massive projects happening with quite a bit of, like I said, 80, it looked like 80, 100 units that are going up.

Similar wording

We wanted to stay within the dimensions of the height and all of that, and in complying with all of that, we needed the extra two units.

Similar wording

And then we made one low-income affordable as long as we could, and we felt that that was doing the best we could for the community, and the community was very appreciative.

Similar wording

Yeah, and I hear that, but I guess my concern is that so much activity, because there is a commercial space that's going to be active on that first floor.

Similar wording

Do you have any idea of, are you shopping it around for types of businesses that could be on that first floor?

Similar wording

Because depending on that, that could possibly be a high traffic business as well.

Similar wording

Yes, that is so. Everything on that, on, on bridge is supposed to be a business, but at the time, that side of town is not very active.

Similar wording

So we're not sure what kind of business we can attract to come to that side of town.

Similar wording

And from the pictures you've seen, most of that place is vacant.

Similar wording

So we're not sure who we could be able to get up there.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Questions from our attorney, Hillary Emerson.

Similar wording

Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Planning Commission.

Similar wording

Thank you, Chairman.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, David Vecto with the City Planning Commission.

Similar wording

chairman, and board members. The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the CMX2 commercial

Similar wording

mixed use zoning at this location. The appellant seeks to build a vacant commercial space with

Similar wording

six dwelling units instead of the four that the code allows them to build. There is no unique

Similar wording

physical condition or circumstance of this property that will prevent it from being used

Similar wording

in strict conformity with the zoning code. We also note for the board that absent participation in a

Similar wording

city, state, or federal program, or a city zoning incentive, affordability mentioned in the

Similar wording

appellant's testimony cannot be enforced by any city agency. The City Planning Commission

Similar wording

The City Planning Commission recommends the board deny the proposed use variants for two additional dwelling units more than what the code allows.

Similar wording

recommends the Board deny the proposed use variance for two additional

Similar wording

MI 2024-001-519-2128 Ridge Avenue, I vote no.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, my vote is no.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.

Similar wording

Senator Graham, my vote is no.

Similar wording

ION, my vote is no.

Similar wording

Thank you, counsel.

Similar wording

So, is there anyone in the virtual audience whose case has not been called?

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Thank you, everyone.

Similar wording

See you everyone at 2 p.m.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, everyone.

Similar wording

My name is Bill Bergman, and I will be chairing this afternoon's meeting.

Similar wording

with me with me is our vice chair ismail shaheed president mr chairman our board member

Similar wording

cheryl l gaston president mr chairman our board member tenetta graham president mr chairman

Similar wording

our board member michael johns president mr chairman and our board member taya wynn

Similar wording

she's not on she'll be on any minute also present is our attorney hillary emerson

Similar wording

And our Executive Director, Ian Haggerty.

Similar wording

Here's our virtual format.

Similar wording

Proceedings are being recorded.

Similar wording

With your participation, you agree to be recorded.

Similar wording

The video will be available by contacting

Similar wording

ZBAExecutiveDirector at phillip.gov.

Similar wording

For a court sonographer, we ask attorneys and witnesses

Similar wording

to identify themselves before testifying.

Similar wording

If you're participating by phone,

Similar wording

press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute.

Similar wording

To enter and appear in a statement, call 267-270-5548.

Similar wording

Leave your email address and the address of the property in question.

Similar wording

And finally, the question and answer box on the screen is not for testimony.

Similar wording

All questions should be directed to zbaexecutivedirector at phila.gov.

Similar wording

Let's look at our schedule for this afternoon.

Similar wording

Number one, MI 2023-006-919-2301 North 29th Street. I believe Darwin Bovee is in the audience for a continuance. Mr. Bovee?

Similar wording

Chair, I see no one by that name in the audience.

Similar wording

So, number one, MI 2023-006-919-2301 North 29th Street, case is continued, attorney moving party.

Similar wording

Number three, MI 2024-001-867-1112 Roy Street, that case is continued.

Similar wording

Number five, MI 2024-002-120-963 North Lawrence Street.

Similar wording

That case is continued.

Similar wording

And number 10, MI 2024-004-239-900 North 41st Street.

Similar wording

That case is continued.

Similar wording

Are there any other requests for continuance?

Similar wording

chair I see no hands at this time thank you so number six MI 2024-003-404-6915

Similar wording

North Broad Street Wayne Oliver is the listed owner we have no exhibits this is the second

Similar wording

listing the RCO is requesting it continues it's Mr. Oliver in the audience

Similar wording

Yes, Chair. Wayne Oliver has been allowed to speak. Wayne, please unmute yourself.

Similar wording

Chair, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Wayne Oliver, please unmute yourself.

Similar wording

Okay, Terry, he's still on mute, he's still on mute.

Similar wording

Mr. Oliver.

Similar wording

Okay, so this particular case, the Oak Lane Community Action has tried to have a meeting.

Similar wording

They have not had a meeting as of yet.

Similar wording

So, number six, MI 2024-003-404-6915, North Broad Street.

Similar wording

Case is continued.

Similar wording

Mark must be heard.

Similar wording

We're going to go to our add-ons.

Similar wording

M.I. 2024-005-738-5200 South Broad Street.

Similar wording

I vote yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Her refusal dated 12-10-24.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, I vote yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with Proviso.

Similar wording

Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes, with Proviso.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes, with Proviso.

Similar wording

Number two, MI 2024-006-182-231 East Rod Avenue.

Similar wording

I vote yes, with proviso. Change of use for first floor only.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, my vote is yes, with proviso.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with proviso.

Similar wording

Teneda Graham, my vote is yes, with proviso.

Similar wording

Number three. MI 2024-004-300-3401-03 North 10th Street. I vote yes with proviso. Her amended

Similar wording

refusal dated 11-26-24.

Similar wording

My vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Thank you. We're going to go to our regular list.

Similar wording

Number two, MI 2024-001-649-7715 Ogons Avenue.

Similar wording

Alan Nockamson is the attorney.

Similar wording

This is a resumptive hearing.

Similar wording

Alan Nockamson has been promoted to penalist.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Hello, Mr. Nockamson, could you please state your name and spell for the court's amendment?

Similar wording

Yes, Alan Nockamson, A-L-A-N, the last name Nockamson, N-O-C-H-U-M-S-O-N.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

So, Mr. Nockamson, my understanding, this is a resumptive hearing.

Similar wording

Am I right? That is correct. I was not involved in the original.

Similar wording

I know. So you you were a result. This is a resumptive hearing.

Similar wording

And we know you did not represent the person the first time around.

Similar wording

What we would want to do is could you update us on what happened between the last meeting and this meeting?

Similar wording

My understanding is that we we had another community meeting where a vote was taken by the community group.

Similar wording

And, you know, we're here today to present, you know, the what happened, you know, at that community meeting, maybe explain a little better, you know, what we're asking for.

Similar wording

My understanding, too, is that the board is going to hold the vote because we need another.

Similar wording

We needed an amended refusal and now we're going to hold for a corrective refusal.

Similar wording

Is that correct?

Similar wording

That is correct.

Similar wording

My understanding that my client with former counsel applied for, as part of their application for vehicle, equipment, supplies, and sales and rentals.

Similar wording

And unfortunately, I don't think that the refusal reflects that.

Similar wording

So just to be extra cautious, we're just going to get a correct refusal.

Similar wording

So why don't you start, sir?

Similar wording

All right. Thank you very much.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

All right. Here to present 7715 Ogons Ave. My client is 7715 Ogons Ave. LLC. And then the virtual audience is Gregory Tenna, its owner.

Similar wording

you know I actually drive down this a lot I you know play basketball down at Abington Friends so

Similar wording

I go down to Ogonz a lot so I see this property Ogonz Air Avenue is a commercial corridor

Similar wording

in Philadelphia and you know we're looking to essentially legalize this property

Similar wording

for personal vehicle repairs and maintenance in an existing structure which would include

Similar wording

the sale of tires. In addition, obviously, we're going to add that language about vehicle equipment,

Similar wording

supplies, and sales and rentals of that equipment. So during our presentation, we'll review the

Similar wording

notice of refusal. We did get correspondence from the 50 Democratic Award. We had a meeting with

Similar wording

them, and I think there's a misunderstanding of what we're trying to do or maybe the extent of

Similar wording

what we're trying to do but we so we my client circulated a very extensive petition of people

Similar wording

in the neighborhood and close by and you'll see that through by way of our petition and the map

Similar wording

that we created i personally think uh that i don't know why we're here um you'll see in the

Similar wording

refusal like that this property has had this use since 1990 originally as a temporary use and then

Similar wording

as a permanent use. So what happened was we eventually got violation notice for the use

Similar wording

that he's been, you know, that's been this use since 1990. So previous counsel just filed another

Similar wording

zoning permit application and we got this refusal. So I can't understand why we're here, but I,

Similar wording

you know, we did, you know, we, you know, we will embrace this process. But you'll see the license

Similar wording

that we have or other licenses that we have and use registration permits.

Similar wording

You know, this is not the first time our firm has handled the sale of tires before,

Similar wording

and similar uses have been approved by way of variance, and we have two examples that

Similar wording

our firm has recently done close by.

Similar wording

Maps of the area, photographs of the property, simple site plan, our RCO meeting notice along

Similar wording

with proof of mailing that notice, our application for appeal that we filed with the ZBA, the

Similar wording

deed to the property, showing that the applicant owns the property, and a certificate of tax

Similar wording

clearance. Again, at the conclusion of my presentation, I would ask that Greg virtually

Similar wording

raise his hand and be sworn in, and then we'll be available to answer any questions the board

Similar wording

may have about this matter. So notice of refusal. This is a CMX2 property. We're looking for use as

Similar wording

personal vehicle repair and maintenance in an existing structure, as stated before, which will

Similar wording

also include the sale of tires. We're going to correct the refusal just to add exactly what we

Similar wording

asked for. But if you look here, in 1990, the ZBA granted a variance for auto repair shop,

Similar wording

no body and fender work to include retail sale of tires. The proviso was it was a one-year

Similar wording

temporary variance. So what happened? The following year, on or about, the ZBA granted

Similar wording

a permanent variance for exactly that work. So I'm not sure why we're here today. And I think

Similar wording

the biggest issue here is the sale of tires, as you saw in the letter from the community.

Similar wording

So the community did, you know, it was not a well-attended meeting. You know, the RCO board

Similar wording

voted one in favor and three imposed. And all attending meeting attendees was one in favor

Similar wording

and four opposed. So it was not a well attended meeting. But they indicated that the community

Similar wording

had some concern about the sale of tires because of how they were being stored. So originally,

Similar wording

they were being stored essentially in like a temporary like storage apparatus, like

Similar wording

really a tractor trailer. And that gave grave concern to the neighbors. So my clients pivoted

Similar wording

and created, what's it called, these tire racks that were in the back of the building structure.

Similar wording

And that was, you know, thinking that was the compromise.

Similar wording

And the neighbors were still not happy with that.

Similar wording

They think that this is going to be a fire hazard.

Similar wording

And you'll see from the license that we have in terms of disposing of tires,

Similar wording

like it's regulated by the state.

Similar wording

So in addition to this process of getting zoning approval,

Similar wording

So in addition to this process of getting zoning approval, it's overseen by the state of how we store and dispose of tires.

Similar wording

It's overseen by the state.

Similar wording

So there's all these regulations that we need to comply with.

Similar wording

So if it's not a safe structure or way of storing tires, obviously, we're not going to get a renewal license.

Similar wording

But this use has been in existence for this property since 1990.

Similar wording

Again, I don't know why we're here, but that's almost 35 years.

Similar wording

So my client circulated a petition of nearby occupants of properties, and you can see it's pretty extensive here. So, I mean, both not just the owners of the commercial units, but owners of residential units nearby.

Similar wording

And then this is the backup of that petition of people who signed and where they're located.

Similar wording

Again, my client did it under previous counsel, so it's not something like you would see with us.

Similar wording

But again, it's pretty extensive.

Similar wording

And then the license, you can see here, we had a license that's as active as March 13th of 2024 for motor vehicle repair and retail mobile dispensing.

Similar wording

So not sure why we're here. And then we also have something from the Department of Environmental Protection regarding the license that we have for removing and storing tires in, you know, according to the state of Pennsylvania.

Similar wording

And then this is just the original use permit for the use that started in 1990.

Similar wording

And again, not out of character for this board to approve, like, you know, again, the sale and ultimate storage of tires.

Similar wording

We were here regarding 5421 Baltimore Avenue, which was a less commercial property than the one that we have here today.

Similar wording

And here's the zoning permit for it.

Similar wording

And then 1937 Harrison Street.

Similar wording

Again, this board approved the storage and sale of tires.

Similar wording

And there's no any permits for it.

Similar wording

And then maps of the area.

Similar wording

We are in a commercial corridor.

Similar wording

Ogons is a commercial corridor.

Similar wording

We do abut residential.

Similar wording

We're between 77th Avenue and 78th Avenue.

Similar wording

This is just an overview or an aerial view of our property.

Similar wording

But as you can see, this is where the original storage of the tires were indoors.

Similar wording

We've changed it up and we'll have other photographs.

Similar wording

But this was a former gas station that became an auto repair shop in 1990.

Similar wording

And as you can see, this is what it looks like.

Similar wording

This is, you know, something that's been there for 35 years.

Similar wording

So, different angles.

Similar wording

And this is where the tires are being stored.

Similar wording

All we did was remove, we didn't change anything else, but remove the temporary structure that was there that was upsetting the neighborhood.

Similar wording

And we added these racks instead, which we thought would be, you know, something a little bit more amenable.

Similar wording

I want to focus on one other thing.

Similar wording

There is an actual divide between the commercial here on Ogons and the residential on 78th Street.

Similar wording

So it's not like we're attached or any building structure is attached or anywhere near this commercial aspect.

Similar wording

Just going in terms of like any type of fire hazards or anything else, if there would be.

Similar wording

And then this is the property.

Similar wording

Again, we always go on Google Street View.

Similar wording

it's always helpful to see what properties look like over time. This is something we pulled from

Similar wording

Google Street View in 2011. So you can see it really hasn't changed much.

Similar wording

And then this is the zoning hearing posters.

Similar wording

And then this is Oguns to the right of the property,

Similar wording

to the left of the property. This is 78th Street or 78th Avenue to the right of the property.

Similar wording

until left of the property.

Similar wording

These are our plans and drawings.

Similar wording

All we do is a site plan.

Similar wording

We haven't changed anything up.

Similar wording

All we did was, again, focus on having these shelving for the tires themselves in the back.

Similar wording

Our RCO meeting notice, we met with the community on October 23rd at 7 p.m.

Similar wording

Proof of mailing of that notice is following to 93 addresses.

Similar wording

our application for appeal that my client previously filed along with the notice of refusal

Similar wording

and the project information form, the deed to the property showing that the applicant owns the

Similar wording

property, and the certificate of tax clearance. The only reason why he says the balance due is

Similar wording

And the certificate of tax clearance. The only reason why he says the balance due is because of taxes that are not yet due in 2025.

Similar wording

I would ask that that Greg virtually raise his hand and be sworn in.

Similar wording

Gregory Tena has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

gregory tena spelled g-r-e-g-o-r-y last name t-e-n-a

Similar wording

where are affirmed to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

Similar wording

yes sir proceed counsel oh yes uh gregory um you heard everything i had to state today about

Similar wording

or a zoning matter. Yes. And is it true and correct? Yes. And do you adopt this your own

Similar wording

testimony? Yes. All right. Thank you. Alan, I'm going to give it to the board, but I'm going to

Similar wording

start off by saying that there was a lot of concern about how the tires being stored outside

Similar wording

because the houses are right across that driveway. There's not a long driveway. And I think,

Similar wording

I don't know if you looked at any of the paperwork from the last one, but there's someone who had called in and talked about saying that we should recommend that the tires be stored inside.

Similar wording

And I think a lot of that for safety reasons, this person and this person does a lot of work down around southwest Philadelphia where there's a lot of places like that.

Similar wording

So I'm not sure how this case got here, but when it came here, there are the issues that people were concerned about, how close the tires are being stored to the house across the street.

Similar wording

So I'll start that off and I'll let you respond real quick, but then I'm going to give it to the board.

Similar wording

Yeah, I mean, again, I haven't measured it, but if you look at the aerial view, it's like a, it looks like a Lisa, let me show you, share my screen again.

Similar wording

I think we saw that, but go ahead. Why don't you do it again?

Similar wording

Yeah. Well, I think you saw it, but it's a pretty wide driveway.

Similar wording

And again, this is how it was done for the last 35 years.

Similar wording

And I don't know how we got here because the sale of tires has been a permanent use of this property since 1990.

Similar wording

So and there's been no incident since which would say that this is this is a problem to store the tires the way we have been storing it for almost 35 years.

Similar wording

So I guess it looked to me like the RCO wasn't crazy about it, right?

Similar wording

Oh, no, they were not happy about it.

Similar wording

But again, this this board on two separate occasions, one in 1990 and one in 1992 approved this use.

Similar wording

i mean really sure i understand no if anything i think this is more like an lni appeal i don't

Similar wording

know why we received a refusal again i took over this case but like i understand i understand

Similar wording

yeah it's crazy i don't know what happened and i again it's it's you know something i took over but

Similar wording

it seems to me like we shouldn't even be here because we already have a zoning permanent record

Similar wording

as of 1992, which is permanent in nature.

Similar wording

And we're not extending the use, sorry.

Similar wording

Questions from the board.

Similar wording

Okay, questions or comments from our attorney,

Similar wording

Hillary Emerson.

Similar wording

Just briefly, Mr. Chair,

Similar wording

I think just to clarify Mr. Nockmson's question,

Similar wording

I believe there was testimony at the prior hearing

Similar wording

that this property had been vacant for some time.

Similar wording

And since the previous approvals were granted by variants, they were probably lost due to abandonment.

Similar wording

So that's probably why Al and I are saying that a new approval is needed for the use.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

Yes, Chair. I have someone up by the name. I have a hand up by the name of Aze. They have been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Please unmute yourself.

Similar wording

We see his hand.

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

They are currently still on mute.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Is there anyone else in the audience?

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Do we have his name?

Similar wording

The person with the hand up?

Similar wording

it was as a

Similar wording

It was Ed A.

Similar wording

is his hand down

Similar wording

yes chair the hearing is currently down

Similar wording

okay okay planning commission

Similar wording

good morning afternoon amy boyd with the planning commission

Similar wording

amy boyd you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

Similar wording

i do please proceed the comprehensive plan recommends no change

Similar wording

to the CMX2 commercial mixed-use zoning at this location.

Similar wording

The proposed use as personal vehicle repair and maintenance

Similar wording

is consistent with documented fire use.

Similar wording

The Planning Commission recommends that the board grant the requested variance

Similar wording

for personal vehicle repair and maintenance

Similar wording

and grant the requested variance for tire sales

Similar wording

with proviso interior storage of tires.

Similar wording

So, Alan, as we talked, we're going to hold it for a corrective refusal,

Similar wording

but other than that, it's closed.

Similar wording

Okay?

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Number four.

Similar wording

Mr. Chair, before we move on, I believe Mr. Anastasio has an additional request for continuance on the two o'clock list.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Mr. Anastasio.

Similar wording

Thank you, Ms. Emerson.

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

I've already been sworn to just what case?

Similar wording

1427 West Diamond Street.

Similar wording

I think that was a system issue.

Similar wording

I kept raising my hand, but it kept getting lowered for some reason.

Similar wording

So my apologies.

Similar wording

That's number 11, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Yeah, I got it. MI 2024-004-374-1427 Diamond Street. Cases continue. Thanks for calling in.

Similar wording

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Ms. Emerson.

Similar wording

And Mr. Chair, we also have a hand from Darwin Bouvet. It may be related to another continuance.

Similar wording

Probably his first case I called, right?

Similar wording

It may be.

Similar wording

Mr. Bouvet.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Would you please state your name and spell for stenographer?

Similar wording

Gladly.

Similar wording

First name Darwin, D-A-R-W-I-N.

Similar wording

Last name Beauvais, B-E-A-U-V, as in victory, A-I-S, as in Sam.

Similar wording

You swear we're firm to tell the truth, to hold truth in nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

I called your case earlier, and I continued it.

Similar wording

2301 North 29th?

Similar wording

Actually, I just uploaded a letter to withdraw the matter.

Similar wording

So if that could be more.

Similar wording

I'll do it right now.

Similar wording

Thank you very much.

Similar wording

And then also, Mr. Chairman, I have another issue.

Similar wording

We have a matter, it's 8301 Toursdale Avenue, and we have, it started off with a refusal, but now the matter is as of right.

Similar wording

And we've been trying to get that listed as a withdrawal.

Similar wording

So I don't know if this could be an add-on and we can have this withdrawn as of record because we want to avoid any delays with the application because it's been pending with L&I for several weeks now.

Similar wording

and mr bouvet this is hillary is that we don't have that the 80 well is the 8301 toursdale case

Similar wording

you're referring to is that on the the 330 list this afternoon uh that's the same address but

Similar wording

it's a different application it's a different application okay um no reach um reach out to

Similar wording

the office with a letter regarding withdrawal and we'll take care of that for the other

Similar wording

toursdale matter all right because i just did that so thank you okay yeah you just got it so

Similar wording

So it will be, yeah, you just sent that in.

Similar wording

It will be processed.

Similar wording

Yep.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

So 29th Street's just a continuance, not a withdrawal?

Similar wording

No, 29th Street is a withdrawal.

Similar wording

Thank you very much.

Similar wording

So MI2023-006-919-2301-29th Street, that case has been withdrawn.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Number four, MI 2024-001-872-260 Geiger Street.

Similar wording

Jason Kirk is the attorney.

Similar wording

There's a letter of opposition, letter of opposition from Greater Busselton Civic Association.

Similar wording

Vote was 27 in opposition, two in support.

Similar wording

good morning good afternoon sorry good afternoon counsel could you please state your name and

Similar wording

Good afternoon. Counsel, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

spell for the court sonographer yes

Similar wording

Yes, Justin Crick, J-U-S-T-I-N-K-R-I-K.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, told truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed. I'm sorry I interrupted you.

Similar wording

No, I was going to say my address is 1515 Market Street, Suite 1200, Philadelphia PA 19102. Thank you.

Similar wording

Could you identify your client and relationship to the property?

Similar wording

Yes, my client is Dasha Hadar. She is the applicant here seeking to open up the child care center, and she is on the line.

Similar wording

Our vice chair has a few questions.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, counsel. Do you agree to wait to read another refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits as needed and required to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?

Similar wording

I have.

Similar wording

Thank you, council. Please proceed and share your screen.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

All right. Thank you. Members of the board, we are here on this application at 260 Geiger Road for specifically Unit B.

Similar wording

This is a portion of a larger property that is situated in Northeast Philadelphia and in the Greater Busselton Civic League's RCO purview.

Similar wording

The applicant is a tenant in this building.

Similar wording

The building is zoned industrial, and this use as a child care center would be a change

Similar wording

to a commercial use for this portion of the building.

Similar wording

And because a child care center and commercial use is prohibited in this district, we received

Similar wording

a refusal.

Similar wording

The property itself has several other uses that have already been approved, including

Similar wording

an adult daycare facility.

Similar wording

and there is, I guess, I believe an ambulance facility in the rear of the building. It's a

Similar wording

fairly large industrial building. But what you should know about this child care center is that

Similar wording

this is not a typical nine to five or even eight to six child care center. Really, there was no

Similar wording

smaller or, I guess, reduced category allowed for something like this, but this is really aftercare.

Similar wording

The hours of operations of this would be limited from 2.30 p.m. to 6 p.m.

Similar wording

The size of the space, which I'll show you in a moment, is about a thousand square feet.

Similar wording

It's really just a place for parents of students ages 5 to 12 years old to really utilize some aftercare coverage at the end of the day.

Similar wording

So as I mentioned, the property's in the Northeast.

Similar wording

Geiger Road is located at the corner of Global and Geiger, which is off of Red Lion Road in a primarily industrial park, which you'll see from this zoning photo.

Similar wording

Our property is located right here, and it is adjacent to several residential properties.

Similar wording

The photos that will come up will show you that there's a nice buffer here of trees and such, and that the industrial or the building in commercial use would be up front.

Similar wording

just for a little bit more geographic, here's Montgomery County and Red Lion Road. This is

Similar wording

the old bud plant that has enough controversy behind it with the area, but we are situated

Similar wording

right here. And as you can see, residential and quite a lot of industrial, but there is a lot of

Similar wording

commercial that's already been approved in this area, including within this building itself.

Similar wording

As a closeup, I can show you that again, there's a buffer here, but this corner of the building,

Similar wording

which I'm circling here, and this pathway are really all that this aftercare intends to use

Similar wording

in the building. This is the entrance area for the aftercare, and there's a small space

Similar wording

along this corner of the building that would just be used for the aftercare.

Similar wording

As you can see, there's a lot of open street here, and that comes into play when you talk about

Similar wording

pickup and drop-off, because the hours are limited, and the students generally get there

Similar wording

by either some other form of transportation through their primary school or maybe a drop-off,

Similar wording

it's a transient situation where you don't have people consistently all day long coming and going

Similar wording

through. Employees will have access to parking in this lot along with some of the other tenants,

Similar wording

and the entire front portion of this building is an adult daycare at this point and was approved

Similar wording

several years ago. Before I, I'm going to jump ahead a little bit just to show you the front

Similar wording

of the building. You'll see active life services. This operates the majority of the front of the

Similar wording

building. And this is the, the posting on the front of this building and the entrance that

Similar wording

we would be seeking to use. So Ms. Hadar had worked with the landlord to try and set up the

Similar wording

space. This was done a long time ago, and unfortunately, we haven't been able to utilize,

Similar wording

we haven't been able to utilize, but this is the intent of aftercare. This is for parents to

Similar wording

but this is the intent of aftercare.

Similar wording

have their kids with maybe a prepared food already or snacks. There is no hot foods to be

Similar wording

cooked or anything like that. It's really a space for the kids to occupy their time as opposed to

Similar wording

being elsewhere that could be somewhat dangerous or undesirable during those after hours.

Similar wording

So it is only this unit B, which is, again, 1,030 square feet. We have approximately capacity for between 12 and 20 students. And what I wanted to point out a little bit earlier is that the area itself, even though it is industrial, there are three full-fledged educational centers within this just horseshoe of a street.

Similar wording

We have the Redline Elementary School, which is a private school, pre-K through fifth grade, that has a full curriculum. It is state licensed. They do serve fresh foods, hot meals, and they've been in there for over a decade plus.

Similar wording

Two doors down even further, we have the Grow and Learn Education Center, which is essentially,

Similar wording

it looks like the hours of operation are between 8 a.m. and 6 p.m., and they, too, have a full

Similar wording

contingent of students way, way greater than what we're looking at in an aftercare facility.

Similar wording

And then finally, the primary educational facility in this area is the Bambi Educational

Similar wording

Daycare. They've been here for about 30 years. I do know that a lot of traffic around some of

Similar wording

these is occurring, but they have significantly higher attendance rates during their operations

Similar wording

and significantly longer operational hours, a lot of which is during that peak morning time of day.

Similar wording

The owner is, as I said, a tenant of the property. They stepped in here and tried to do this earlier

Similar wording

in the year and get it going, but they are there for the long haul. The taxes have been paid on

Similar wording

the property and we did meet with the Greater Busselton Civic League. We did get opposition

Similar wording

from the Greater Busselton Civic League. I don't quite understand all of the opposition that was

Similar wording

there, especially given the fact that there's active adult daycare has already been allowed

Similar wording

and several other schools are located in this industrial district, which leads me to the

Similar wording

hardship in that we are looking for a consistency in the area so that we are treated identically to

Similar wording

some of these other applications that have been allowed. And we feel that this is the minimum

Similar wording

variance going from an industrial to a commercial use that is also in the purpose and spirit of the

Similar wording

code and plan because so many variances have been given recognizing that this area is not the

Similar wording

greatest uh or it hasn't been in the past for industrial uses so now the building itself has

Similar wording

been allowed to go into this industrial commercial mixed use which creates slightly greater hardship

Similar wording

on on the use to um you know because its characteristics have already allowed it to have

Similar wording

commercial uses in there um it's it's impossible to be in strict conformity of the code at this

Similar wording

point in an industrial area. This project does not increase congestion in the streets or endanger

Similar wording

the public. And that is because, again, it's a very limited use. We're not talking about a full-time

Similar wording

school in this space. We don't anticipate any impact to neighboring properties.

Similar wording

Unfortunately, I do believe the owner and some of the adjacent neighboring properties,

Similar wording

the residential ones, are having a dispute, but it is not related to the applicant's use,

Similar wording

and it is not related to the portion of the building that the applicants are seeking to

Similar wording

operate out of. There would be no burden on the public facilities or utilities here. It's a

Similar wording

nominal amount of people using, no different than would be if an industrial use were likely allowed

Similar wording

there, probably less. And there is no environmental concern with this project. There's no impact on

Similar wording

the environment or the land at all. So given that these uses have been allowed throughout the

Similar wording

industrial, we'll call it neighborhood street, as well as specifically within this building,

Similar wording

we believe that that is the hardship and that there's only, you know, it would be necessary

Similar wording

to allow this to enable this applicant to have a financially viable economic use in this space.

Similar wording

I do, again, have Ms. Hadar.

Similar wording

Council, can I ask a question?

Similar wording

Yes, please.

Similar wording

Did you attend the meeting?

Similar wording

I did.

Similar wording

And what was the conversations?

Similar wording

So a lot of the conversation is that people had problems with, at least as I, let me go back to it.

Similar wording

at least as I, let me go back to it. People had a lot of problems with this daycare specifically

Similar wording

People had a lot of problems with this day.

Similar wording

saying that it caused a lot of traffic in the area. And so they were concerned more about a

Similar wording

lot of the traffic in the area. And again, I think some of it was dealing with some of the

Similar wording

neighbors in the back. I don't want to tie it to that, but I do know that there is a dispute over

Similar wording

some of this land that raised concerns with people saying that this landlord having problems with the

Similar wording

landlord or the owner, I should say, versus the applicant itself. The neighborhood didn't

Similar wording

necessarily see the need for this, but I don't know that that's, you know, I didn't know how

Similar wording

to answer that because my client has obviously, you know, done her homework as to why she would

Similar wording

want to open this up at this location. So, I mean, those were the primary concerns was the

Similar wording

traffic from other daycares or schools that say that they weren't going to be, but now they're

Similar wording

full-time uh we are okay with limiting the hours of operation to an aftercare facility because

Similar wording

that's what this is so that it doesn't get uh for unit b so that it doesn't cause the neighborhood

Similar wording

more uh traffic congestion but again i did not necessarily understand other than a gripe with

Similar wording

commercial things popping up here and there uh any substantive reason why this would be a a

Similar wording

detriment to the neighborhood okay why don't you bring your client one um i do want to add that

Similar wording

that Ms. Hadar is, she has a bachelor's degree in physical education. She taught phys ed for four

Similar wording

years and she has had about six plus years experience in the daycare and educational

Similar wording

sphere. So she is not without experience and she's just trying to offer this up for people

Similar wording

as a service. With that, I will ask Ms. Hadar to raise her hand, to be unmuted.

Similar wording

tasha the door has been allowed to speak could you please state your name and spell for the

Similar wording

stenographer my name is daria heder d-a-r-i-a last name heder h-a-y-d-a-r you swear or affirm

Similar wording

to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yeah i do please proceed counsel

Similar wording

Thank you. Ms. Haydard, did you have a chance to hear my testimony made to the board today?

Similar wording

Yes. Yes.

Similar wording

Was it true and correct to the best of your knowledge?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

And would you adopt my testimony as if it were your own?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Questions from the board?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

I have any questions.

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

How are the children going to get from wherever they are to this facility?

Similar wording

So my understanding of many aftercare is that some schools do have buses that will transport students to certain locations.

Similar wording

They also may get dropped off or, quite frankly, one of them, I doubt there are the elementary schools in this area.

Similar wording

But there may be people that get dropped off by another method or a family member for those after hours.

Similar wording

Ms. Hadar, if you have any insight into how or what, you know, the method you expect for them to be attending or how they intend to get there, please share.

Similar wording

But you two, the special parents or family members are going to bring kids.

Similar wording

some of the kids

Similar wording

are going to be

Similar wording

dropped off by parents

Similar wording

or family members

Similar wording

and

Similar wording

I believe we're going to provide

Similar wording

transportation

Similar wording

in the future

Similar wording

you're going to

Similar wording

provide transportation

Similar wording

from where these kids are

Similar wording

to get to this facility

Similar wording

is that what you're saying there again i apologize and that does refresh some of my thinking and

Similar wording

prior conversations i would have answered that directly before but uh my client can still answer

Similar wording

but i do believe that pickup from certain locations is something that they that she is looking to do

Similar wording

with some of the families as well so that there would be pickup from their primary school uh for

Similar wording

certain people i don't know that that's plans been enacted yet but other than again like i said

Similar wording

certain schools will drop students off at potentially uh specific locations or nearby

Similar wording

and i do want to state for the board that i do believe miss hadar's husband is with her

Similar wording

he is you know assisting but if i don't believe he'll be testifying okay i mean because what

Similar wording

you're saying is these are kids from 5 to 12 years old right yes and that the after school

Similar wording

program here is going to be from 2 30 to 6 p.m so if the idea

Similar wording

So if the idea is that these children need some place to go after school, the question is, how do they get to this place?

Similar wording

And you're saying the family members are going to.

Similar wording

well what i'm saying is it's either the the district itself can sometimes provide assistance

Similar wording

uh miss hadar has indicated that she may do some of that with her business or try to

Similar wording

accommodate make arrangements but there there i assume there are some times where parents

Similar wording

are able to maybe get the child or you make arrangements to get the child to the aftercare

Similar wording

so that the another primary caregiver or something can finish off their day at work

Similar wording

I think there's a mix mix match of ways that students could get there or children to get there.

Similar wording

All right. Okay, thank you. I have a question. Yeah, I have a question. So was the RCO during

Similar wording

the RCO meeting was the RCO given this model of just aftercare? Or, you know, do they think it

Similar wording

was just going to be like a full fledged daycare? They were given just the aftercare model, they did

Similar wording

have concern about, well, then it spills over into this and then you, you know, you extend for this

Similar wording

and get longer hours and so on and so forth. And I understand that that is always a concern of

Similar wording

neighborhoods about the representations made to them, but that is why we're okay with provisos

Similar wording

and other things that can be enforced to restrain the use and the times and so forth.

Similar wording

Did you, did you offer some of the provisos, possibly the forcible provisos during the

Similar wording

meeting to the RCO? Yes. This meeting did happen several months ago. We had attempted to meet with

Similar wording

them again in hopes of gathering more data about the other educational centers in the area. But we

Similar wording

were unable to meet with them again because they had already voted. And since it wasn't an amended

Similar wording

application, they didn't feel that a second meeting was necessary, which is fine. But we did

Similar wording

say that we would be willing to allow these provisos. We will limit it. We'll make the

Similar wording

representations and we'll abide by them so that they're enforceable.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Questions should that work?

Similar wording

Yeah, just I guess I have a comment.

Similar wording

I'm kind of don't see the argument,

Similar wording

I guess, that some folks from the community had about issues around traffic.

Similar wording

There are a couple schools already there, so I don't I don't see why that would be an issue.

Similar wording

I just wanted to go on the record to say that I don't see traffic as an issue for this project.

Similar wording

Anyone else on the board?

Similar wording

Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?

Similar wording

Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

Yes, Chair. I have a hand up by the name of Jack O'Hara.

Similar wording

They have been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

good afternoon mr hara good afternoon chairman bergen could you could you please uh state your

Similar wording

name and spell for the court's sonography certainly jack o'hara o apostrophe h-a-r-a

Similar wording

you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

Similar wording

i do please proceed sir uh the issue uh mr kirk uh brought up about uh a dispute with the owner

Similar wording

of the property uh that does exist that did not come into play with the decision uh to oppose this

Similar wording

uh there there is a resident like mr kirk said there's a uh residential neighborhood right behind

Similar wording

it there's now an eight foot high fence uh that runs along that uh that boundary uh and there is

Similar wording

traffic on red line road that was not also uh something that was uh a bother bothersome uh it

Similar wording

is uh there's two other uh daycares on on that strip and the neighbors uh feel like that was a

Similar wording

mistake allowing those in there are kids outside making a lot of noise as kids do as they're

Similar wording

expected to. But it's right outside their door now. And that did not occur in the past.

Similar wording

This is another daycare. And Mr. Kirk, I believe your client said that that was those hours were

Similar wording

going to expand in the future. So these, you know, this limited schedule is not something

Similar wording

we were thinking of, but the reason for the opposition is really the amount of activity,

Similar wording

more activity, that's backed up right to these houses. They're not big yards.

Similar wording

that's backed up right to these houses. They're not big yards. These properties go right up to

Similar wording

their border. And there's a lot of activity and noise that comes out of them. So that was really

Similar wording

the amount. There is, you know, some congestion. They're going to have, you know, UPS warehouses

Similar wording

planned for right across the street, directly across the street from the Bambi. So it is a

Similar wording

concerned, but that did not come into play here for the opposition. Mr. Kirk, do you have any

Similar wording

questions? I don't have questions. No, I just, I'd like to direct the board that this is the

Similar wording

buffer zone that we're talking about between this property and the residentials behind and unit B

Similar wording

is right up front here. And the other daycares, as you'll see, this is the, this is one and this

Similar wording

is another. And then the Bambi daycare would be up lower on the screen, which I don't have in

Similar wording

this picture but i i don't have any further questions i just would like the the board to

Similar wording

know that the issues that i think uh mr o'hara we're talking about deal with this this area of

Similar wording

the yards as well one other quick question how many how many people can you hold in there

Similar wording

how many you have uh between 12 and 20 uh occupancy based on the thousand square feet

Similar wording

thank you mr o'hara yeah you may i add mr uh chairman bergman may i add

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

The buffer that Mr. Kirk is referring to, a lot of that has been thinned or removed.

Similar wording

So that isn't as big of a buffer as it appears in the image there.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Wait a minute.

Similar wording

Chair, can we keep this picture up?

Similar wording

So where's the outdoor space for this daycare?

Similar wording

Is there outdoor spaces you can show us on this photo?

Similar wording

So the entrance is right where my hand is, and this is the front area. There's no intention of letting the students between 2.30 and 6 running around outside. I mean, that's not, this isn't a full daycare facility.

Similar wording

as you would have here's the red lion elementary which has a yard and then you have the uh the

Similar wording

what's when is this this is the uh the grow and learn center is right here so they they that's

Similar wording

different when you're talking about kids out at recess or something like that there's no intention

Similar wording

to allow the students to be running freely on the lawn out front which you know looks like this

Similar wording

that's all the the other question would be is

Similar wording

so there's no no issue of sending them outside am i correct correct that's they're not they're

Similar wording

not and then the idea i guess the other thing would be is the issue of enlarging the time

Similar wording

right i mean if it's an after-school program we gotta wait for kids to come out of school right

Similar wording

so tell me about that i mean mr o'hara raised the issue about your client said

Similar wording

she's going to change the hours? Not to my knowledge. I mean, if the intent is that this

Similar wording

is a 2.30 to 6 p.m. opportunity for students. And I guess here's where I think I'm thinking

Similar wording

about it. There was talk, well, the student after care, after school care, what does that mean for

Similar wording

summertime? And I think that the answer to that is that there's also after camp. It's the idea of

Similar wording

that hourly window being available for parents to use or guardians to use to to so that's the

Similar wording

only thing i can think of in that sense okay thank you anyone else in the virtual audience

Similar wording

i see no more hands at this time to you planning commission

Similar wording

amy boyd with the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change in

Similar wording

the I-2 general industrial zoning at this location. There is no unique physical circumstance or

Similar wording

condition of the property that would prevent it from being used in conformance with the zoning

Similar wording

code. This is a continuous and viable industrial area and that the city has interest in maintaining

Similar wording

as a industrial area as seen in the recent approval of the 1 million square foot UPS

Similar wording

warehouse to be located at one line road within less than a quarter mile of the site.

Similar wording

The Planning Commission recommends that the Board deny the requested variants for use as a daycare center.

Similar wording

MI 2024-001-872-260 Geiger Road. I vote yes with proviso. Use limited to space B. Hours of operation 2.30 to 6 p.m.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, my vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Senator Graham, my vote is yes with Proviso.

Similar wording

Iowyn, my vote is yes with Proviso.

Similar wording

Tishmel Shaheed, my vote is yes with Proviso.

Similar wording

Thank you, counsel.

Similar wording

Thank you, members of the board.

Similar wording

Number seven, MI 2024-003-727-535-Ruin Street.

Similar wording

535 Rowan Street, David Orphanides is the attorney.

Similar wording

David Orfanides is the attorney.

Similar wording

There's a letter of support from Fox Chase Civic Association and a letter of support from Council Member O'Neill.

Similar wording

David Orphanides will be rejoining us as a panelist.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Hello.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Council.

Similar wording

Good afternoon.

Similar wording

Would you please state your name and spell for the court's sonographer?

Similar wording

Certainly. My name is David Orphanides. The last name is spelled O-R-P-H-A-N-I-D-E-S.

Similar wording

We're affirmed to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do, sir.

Similar wording

Could you identify your client in a relationship to this property?

Similar wording

Certainly. My client is St. Celia Catholic Church, and the property is 535 Bronze Street,

Similar wording

which is the church and a number of other buildings that include a school and the gymnasium and things related.

Similar wording

Our vice chair has a few questions, sir.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, counsel. Do you agree to wait to read another refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?

Similar wording

The refusals are correct. The description of the project is not correct.

Similar wording

As a result, I've been trying to work with the zoning plan examiner for a number of months now

Similar wording

to try to resolve the issue to determine whether or not the refusal could be just corrected by him

Similar wording

or done with handled with the revised proviso plan form in front of the board or required an amended

Similar wording

application. I haven't been able to do that, make that determination with him yet. So I would ask

Similar wording

that this matter be heard, but that the vote be held until maybe Hillary can assist. But right now

Similar wording

there are some things in the notice of refusal, mainly regarding the description. I think the

Similar wording

refusals are all correct but the um the way that they're worded but the description isn't quite

Similar wording

complete of the application understood have you emailed in all the required documents and

Similar wording

exhibits as needed and required to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing

Similar wording

we emailed everything uh we were having problems with the tax clearance um obviously with it being

Similar wording

the church um there was an issue um i mean it's non-profit and it doesn't uh it doesn't get taxed

Similar wording

but often we can still get a clearance

Similar wording

and we weren't able to get that.

Similar wording

So I wasn't able to provide that five days in advance.

Similar wording

And then apparently the photos did not go through

Similar wording

and I'll forward those.

Similar wording

I have those to present today of the property

Similar wording

and of the posting and I'll forward those,

Similar wording

upload those to the system after the hearing today.

Similar wording

Understood.

Similar wording

All right, please proceed and share your screen.

Similar wording

And if we just, are we gonna continue chair with this

Similar wording

and just hold the vote?

Similar wording

Hillary wanna hold the vote on this, am I right?

Similar wording

Yeah, we'll we'll have Mr.

Similar wording

If you need to explain the project, as he said, the refusals are should be correct.

Similar wording

It's just that the description is incorrect and may need to be adjusted so we can address that afterwards.

Similar wording

And just to be clear, the plans, the revised plans are the plans that were presented to Fox Chase and that they based their support upon.

Similar wording

So just wanted to clarify that.

Similar wording

OK, thank you.

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

Can you all see my screen?

Similar wording

We can. Great. So let me just minimize this up here. Okay. So again, my name is David Orfanides with the law firm of Orfanides & Toner. The property in question is 535 Rohn Street. 535 Rohn Street runs through to the rear of it. It's on effectively the north side of Rohn Street.

Similar wording

And you can see that here with our aerial photos, you can see right here, here's the property.

Similar wording

So you have Rohn Street, you have the church, and as I mentioned, there's public library, which is not part of the property, here at Jeans and Rohn.

Similar wording

The property goes through to Stanwood and then goes through to Jeans.

Similar wording

At the present time, there is a freestanding, you'll see in a minute with the photographs, there is a single-sided freestanding sign by the church.

Similar wording

And then there is an existing wall sign over here on the side of the building that's located along Jean Street.

Similar wording

The zoning archives don't include any reference to this particular sign, the wall sign, which I'll show you photographs of.

Similar wording

So this application should be clear, and that wasn't clear in the way that the notice of refusal was worded as far as what the application was for, should have stated that it was to document this existing sign just, you know, while we're here dealing with everything else to make everything else legitimate and legal.

Similar wording

but in the end there's there's right now there's two these two existing signs freestanding and a

Similar wording

wall sign and then what you'll see as we go through is the idea the proposal is to take

Similar wording

And then what you'll see as we go through is the idea, the proposal is to take this freestanding sign and mount it to the same wall that the existing wall sign is along Jean Street.

Similar wording

this freestanding sign

Similar wording

One of the issues there, again, was that the notice of refusal did not indicate that that sign and, you know, is it necessary?

Similar wording

You know, I like to, as you know, I like to be very specific and to be clear so everybody knows what's going on, particularly when it comes to illumination and how neighbors feel about that.

Similar wording

So the existing freestanding sign is internal as internal static elimination.

Similar wording

And that will remain when it's if this is approved and it's moved to the wall of the building over here on jeans.

Similar wording

And then what you'll see as we go along in the local general location where the existing sign is here by the church on Ron Street.

Similar wording

The proposal is a double sided freestanding sign, a portion of which is a digital sign.

Similar wording

It's a 16 square foot on each side, two feet by eight feet, which, again, the way it's worded, it makes it sound as if the description and the refusal, as you'll see, makes it sound as if the whole double-sided freestanding sign is, well, they called it a message board, which isn't even a type of sign in the zoning code.

Similar wording

So that was something that I was trying to address.

Similar wording

But only a portion of the sign is digital, and we'll go through that in a minute.

Similar wording

So just a couple more aerials here showing kind of the three locations for the three signs that are going to be included with the application when all is said and done.

Similar wording

You go around.

Similar wording

You have the Fox Chase train station over at this location.

Similar wording

You'll see later on, there's an existing freestanding sign that's already been permitted right around in this location by the train station, right by Councilman O'Neill's office there for American Heritage.

Similar wording

It's fairly similar to what we're talking about here.

Similar wording

There's a freestanding sign a little further down the road for recurrence meets.

Similar wording

That is also in close proximity, but we'll go through that in a couple of minutes and I'll show you.

Similar wording

Some photographs. Here is the existing sign that I mentioned, single-sided, internally illuminated sign. Identifies the church, times of service, things of that nature.

Similar wording

um brawn street um it's largely residential in this area you can see to either side you have

Similar wording

across the street caddy corner you have the fox chase elementary school

Similar wording

then other than that it's residential until you get down to the shopping center

Similar wording

where the train station is and as i indicated as you saw in the aerial there's a number of

Similar wording

Buildings, it's a fairly large property, spread out throughout the property.

Similar wording

I'm just going to quickly scroll to Gene.

Similar wording

So on the Gene side, this is the building where you see the existing sign.

Similar wording

It's a non-illuminated wall sign.

Similar wording

That's the sign that I mentioned is to be documented because there's no record of that.

Similar wording

It's interesting.

Similar wording

It didn't mention it in the description in the Notice of Refusal.

Similar wording

but it included it in the calculation for square footage for that street frontage.

Similar wording

And again, when we're done with this process,

Similar wording

I want to make sure that the church has three legal signs

Similar wording

and there's no question as to that when they're finished.

Similar wording

This, as you'll see from the drawings,

Similar wording

is the location of where that existing free standing sign

Similar wording

that I initially showed you is to be relocated.

Similar wording

And again, here's the original drawings that were submitted to L&I.

Similar wording

And it shows, again, A, which is the new double-sided freestanding sign that includes the digital sign.

Similar wording

By definition, in the zoning code, it's a digital sign.

Similar wording

The thing is, is that they included, well, initially, the square footage is 59.8 square feet, but did not include the base.

Similar wording

um there's a question as to where whether or not by definition the base should be by definition

Similar wording

the zoning code the base should be included but i wasn't able to confirm with and it was clearly

Similar wording

shown that the base was not included in the calculations but the examiner asked to try to

Similar wording

get in touch with the examiner to confirm whether or not that's correct or whether we should properly

Similar wording

show the square footage that includes the base we showed both plans both the existing plans and the

Similar wording

plans that i'll show you in a minute the revised plans that include the square footage with the

Similar wording

base um that's the only real kind of question regarding um that sign is and the thing that i

Similar wording

want to either have addressed with a corrected refusal revised plan stamped by the board or

Similar wording

an amended notice of refusal um sign b which is

Similar wording

an amended notice of refusal um as sign b which is i mentioned um is the relocated sign from the

Similar wording

front that's 32 square feet and then sign c and again um sign c is that existing sign so you can

Similar wording

see if i take it take you to the revised zoning drawings that they're they're exactly the same

Similar wording

the only thing is is that we you know included the base in the calculations the overall size

Similar wording

of the sign did not change so again it's a double-sided sign has some width to it and then

Similar wording

there this is the digital portion right here this is the two feet by eight feet 24 inch by 96 inch

Similar wording

digital on both sides as opposed to being a message board it's seven feet 10.61 inches tall

Similar wording

freestanding signs are only permitted to be seven feet tall digital signs as noted in notice of

Similar wording

refusal are not permitted in the zoning district. And we can go through that in the middle.

Similar wording

Here's some, these are exactly what was submitted, you know, as far as graphically,

Similar wording

the pictures, the original drawing, and then again, in the revised drawing.

Similar wording

And here you can see on this drawing, we provide a little more detail on the revised drawings,

Similar wording

but nothing effectively changed the original zoning drawings again showed the relocated sign

Similar wording

that freestanding sign internally illuminated statically illuminated being located to the wall

Similar wording

for existing signs c is located and you can see here it's exactly the same we just added some

Similar wording

dimensions just for the community group meaning to be to be clear c is not illuminated and there's

Similar wording

no intention to illuminate them. You can see here, again, they only reference two signs in

Similar wording

the application, but they include three signs in the calculations of square footage, as I mentioned

Similar wording

on genes. They call the message board, as you can see in the relevant sections of the zoning code

Similar wording

that I've included with the exhibit book. You have an electronic message sign, you have a digital sign,

Similar wording

and then you have an accessibility digital news ticker and because they reference it a notice of

Similar wording

refusal uh animated illumination and so going back here there's only three types of signs

Similar wording

that fall under that category and the one that fits most clearly is the digital sign

Similar wording

and so it's those things that we wanted to try to get clear with uh with the examiner so that

Similar wording

the permit is accurate. And again, so there's no issues with the church when we go forward.

Similar wording

I mentioned that there are some properties nearby that have digital signs. So right down at Jeans

Similar wording

and Ron, there's the Bethany Baptist Church, which has a freestanding digital sign. I could not find,

Similar wording

I include zoning archives with my exhibits. I could not find any, interesting, I couldn't find

Similar wording

any zoning archives for the church, which is shocking to me. You have the older church building

Similar wording

and newer buildings. It might have been under a different address. We checked every possible

Similar wording

address it could be and couldn't find anything. There aren't any zoning archives for Bethany

Similar wording

Baptist at 460 Ron, but there is a freestanding digital sign there. A little further down the

Similar wording

street, I mentioned at American Heritage, right by the train station. You can see here

Similar wording

and probably greater square footage with their digital with their digital sign double-sided

Similar wording

and i mentioned that's right in front of councilman o'neill's office it's just at the

Similar wording

back his office at the back of the parking lot a little further down the street you got reekers

Similar wording

meets that also has a digital sign you can see here double-sided a couple streets down there's

Similar wording

a daycare also internal static illumination with a part of it similarly being digital sign

Similar wording

and then i mean it's a little further away but i know this is driving over um on harvison and

Similar wording

bruce that very similar to what something not similar but something similar to what we're

Similar wording

proposing here where it's a static it's a fixed sign that has a digital portion um i couldn't

Similar wording

find a zoning permit for that sign, but it is there. We included Exhibit 7, all the old deeds

Similar wording

showing our clients own the property. I mentioned we don't owe any taxes on the property. My client

Similar wording

doesn't own any taxes, but we did have issues trying to pull tax clearance. If we need to do

Similar wording

something else, we can provide that after the fact. A copy of the hearing notice. It did copy

Similar wording

what was in the notice of refusal, so the description of what the project was for is

Similar wording

the same, a little slightly limited, but again, what we presented to the community group and

Similar wording

But again, what we presented to the community group and explained to them in great detail, a member of the sign company, a representative from the sign company who's on the call today, was there.

Similar wording

explained to them in great detail.

Similar wording

We went through the types of illumination, the amount and extent of the illumination, the duration of the illumination, things of that nature with the community group.

Similar wording

Our posting photographs, we posted on each of the frontages at Ron, at Stanwood.

Similar wording

And then I didn't also add and then also add at Jean.

Similar wording

And then 14303 notices we originally.

Similar wording

Well, here's the email from the planning commission identifying Fox Chase Civic Association as the coordinating RCO for the project.

Similar wording

The list of addresses to which we sent the notices.

Similar wording

We sent out two notices. We were originally going to have a meeting in June on June 12th.

Similar wording

We didn't have the meeting then.

Similar wording

And then instead, I'm sorry, not on June 12th, on July 1st, I beg your pardon, on July 1st, or July 10th.

Similar wording

And then we didn't go forward with that, but then we did meet on September 11th.

Similar wording

And so with that, I would have my client and a member of the sign company, Casey Signs, adopt my statements.

Similar wording

and then we would open that up to any questions

Similar wording

that the board of members of the audience might have.

Similar wording

Bring your client on first.

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

Father Chris, are you on?

Similar wording

Father Chris, if you are in the virtual audience,

Similar wording

please raise your hand.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Father Chris has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name

Similar wording

and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

My name is Christopher Walsh,

Similar wording

C-H-R-I-S

Similar wording

T-O-P-H-E-R

Similar wording

Last name.

Similar wording

Tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing

Similar wording

but the truth, sir. Yes, sir.

Similar wording

Father Chris,

Similar wording

you heard the statements I made

Similar wording

to the, this is your parish, correct?

Similar wording

It is. Okay.

Similar wording

And you

Similar wording

heard the statements that I made to the board today?

Similar wording

I did. And are you

Similar wording

true and correct to the best of your knowledge?

Similar wording

They are all true as far as I'm aware.

Similar wording

Okay. And would you adopt them as your own?

Similar wording

I do adopt them as my own.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

And then I have a representative from Casey Signs who raised his hand.

Similar wording

He signs.

Similar wording

So, Mr. Orfanides, you're an officer of the court and will gladly accept your testimony.

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

Questions from the board?

Similar wording

Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?

Similar wording

Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Planning Commission?

Similar wording

Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission.

Similar wording

The Comprehensive Plan recommends a change in zoning at this location from the existing residential single-family split zoning of RSA 3 and RSD 3 to RSA 3.

Similar wording

The Appellant has shown evidence of unique circumstances and conditions that would require relief from the zoning code.

Similar wording

The proposed use is accessory to the current use and would not injure the use of adjoining properties.

Similar wording

the planning commission recommends that the board grant all requested sign variances with proviso

Similar wording

that the signs comply with the minimum message duration and brightness standards for signs with

Similar wording

illumination thank you uh hillary we're going to hold this till we correct the refusals is that

Similar wording

correct yes i can work with mr orphanetes and l and i and see whether it should be corrected or

Similar wording

amended. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Orphanides, but this will, it's closed except

Similar wording

for that. Am I correct, Hillary? Yes, closed except for a updated refusal to reflect what

Similar wording

was discussed today. Thank you, Mr. Orphanides. Thank you. May I be excused? You can. Thank you.

Similar wording

Okay. Number eight, MI 2024-004-144-2255 North 22nd Street. Michael Matteoni is the attorney. There's a letter of non-opposition from Council Member Young and a letter of support from all in the family CDC.

Similar wording

Michael Maddione has been promoted to panelist.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, council.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, counsel.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Sure. Michael Mattioni, M-A-T-T-I-O-N-I. Oh, there we go.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Could you identify your client in relationship to the property?

Similar wording

Certainly.

Similar wording

It's Mishpaha LLC, and I have its principal.

Similar wording

I have the principal, Ben Beagle and Sam Mandelbaum here as well.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Our vice chair has just a few questions.

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Counselor.

Similar wording

Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?

Similar wording

Good afternoon, and yes, I do.

Similar wording

Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed and required to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?

Similar wording

Yes, I did.

Similar wording

Thank you, counsel. Please proceed and share your screen.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Is that all?

Similar wording

Yeah, we're good now. We're good now.

Similar wording

You might want to make it just a little larger if you can.

Similar wording

We'll do that, yeah.

Similar wording

I'll just see.

Similar wording

Oops.

Similar wording

As I said, Mr. Chairman, I represent Mishpaha.

Similar wording

They are the owner of three properties, 2255, 57, and 59 North 22nd Street.

Similar wording

And again, we presented the exhibits up on the screen prior to today's hearing, including tax clearance, the refusal, a letter of support from the All in the Family CDC,

Similar wording

the coordinating RCO, a development agreement with All-in-the-Family CDC, revised plans form, revised zoning site plan, a copy of a bill from City Council 210-66701, and photographs.

Similar wording

Our clients are seeking one variance to develop this property into 18 units, where 11 units are presently permitted due to the lot size.

Similar wording

However, when the property was acquired on December 1st, 2021, they could have developed

Similar wording

this property into 18 units.

Similar wording

Right after they acquired the property, with no knowledge on their part, there was an overlay

Similar wording

pass that took away both the green roof bonus and the low-income housing bonus.

Similar wording

So instead of being able to develop two units for the green roof bonus and five units under

Similar wording

the low-income housing bonus, they were only limited to 11 units with no bonuses.

Similar wording

And this happened after they acquired the property.

Similar wording

And under that plan, they would have had to have two affordable units at 50% AMI.

Similar wording

Again, this ordinance was passed just after they acquired the property.

Similar wording

It was introduced on September 17th.

Similar wording

They acquired the property on September 1st, and they had no way to know that this ordinance was going to be introduced.

Similar wording

Again, we do have the letter of support from the All-in-the-Family CDC, the coordinating RCO, and we work with them extensively to come up with an agreement that they were supportive of.

Similar wording

And part of what we did was we agreed to have six affordable units out of the 18 units with two units for households earning no more than 50 percent AMI, one unit for household earning no more than 60 percent AMI, and three units for households earning no more than 80 percent AMI.

Similar wording

And we entered into a development agreement enforceable by the RCO, which is a CDC, and specifically entered into that with them for this reason.

Similar wording

Because, again, overlays are not permitted in this district, so we can't come in with the city and enter into an agreement with, typically enforceable agreement with the Planning Commission on affordable units because we're not allowed to have them under the zoning ordinance.

Similar wording

However, the RCO said they would like us to have the affordable units.

Similar wording

The other thing we did was we originally had height at 42 feet and we reduced it to 38 feet after meeting with the community.

Similar wording

So they wanted us, this is the height of the existing property at 2253.

Similar wording

And this is what we propose and we are, and that's the roof deck.

Similar wording

But basically, we have the same height. We're six inches taller than the existing building.

Similar wording

So when we came down to 38 feet, the RCO said, OK, we have no problem with that.

Similar wording

And that's why we have the revised plans form and the revised zoning site plan.

Similar wording

and that's how we measured the height.

Similar wording

And that's how we measured the height.

Similar wording

And this is the site plan,

Similar wording

just showing that we meet all the dimensional requirements,

Similar wording

height, building coverage, lot coverage, et cetera.

Similar wording

The only issue is the number of units.

Similar wording

And the floor plans show we have nine two-bedroom units,

Similar wording

nine one-bedroom units.

Similar wording

At the ground floor, lower level,

Similar wording

there is a trash room as well for all of the units

Similar wording

and the utility storage space.

Similar wording

And everything else is the same.

Similar wording

You have in the front of the building on each floor,

Similar wording

two bedroom units and two one-bedroom units.

Similar wording

And that goes through to the roof

Similar wording

where there is a rooftop deck for use by all of the occupants.

Similar wording

and again the the affordable units will be dispersed throughout the project to ensure

Similar wording

there is no discrepancy in the unit locations and finishes when looking at this we believe

Similar wording

that there was an unnecessary hardship because city council changed the ordinance took away

Similar wording

the right to develop the property with the bonuses right after the client acquired the

Similar wording

property they had no way to know that that was going to happen and all of a sudden their whole

Similar wording

model for developing the property was not viable because of the change in the ordinance.

Similar wording

We worked with the neighbors and they did agree. And we actually are building six affordable units,

Similar wording

which prior to the change in the ordinance, we only had to build two affordable units. And we've

Similar wording

agreed to build six affordable units by meeting and working with the community. We believe that,

Similar wording

again, that created unnecessary hardship. Our variance is the minimum variance from the

Similar wording

development of the property.

Similar wording

It's in conformity with what would have been permitted

Similar wording

prior to the change in the ordinance.

Similar wording

It permits the development of this property

Similar wording

as a multifamily property.

Similar wording

It's an RM1 zoning class,

Similar wording

so it is a multifamily zoning class.

Similar wording

It will benefit public health, safety, and welfare

Similar wording

by bringing development to this area.

Similar wording

I wanna show the photos.

Similar wording

I mean, it's a large, we only go to about here,

Similar wording

but it's a large open area with no development in the area.

Similar wording

i'm going to go up against this mural will be right same height basically as this existing

Similar wording

structure again just showing the property

Similar wording

and some of the surrounding properties they're all multi-family public school across the street

Similar wording

additional affordable units right down the street

Similar wording

And again, at the other end of the block, there is also some vacant properties.

Similar wording

So, you know, we're doing it in conformity.

Similar wording

It's multifamily.

Similar wording

That's what permitted here.

Similar wording

It will get rid of vacant properties, making environmental damage in the area less likely.

Similar wording

And we just believe that given what's happened in this, the working with the community and the unique nature of the site

Similar wording

and how it changed what was permitted right after the client acquired the property that

Similar wording

this creates the hardship and really we're going to develop in conformity with what

Similar wording

is already in the area. What I'd like to do, Mr. Chairman, is call on Ben Beagle.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Do we see his hand?

Similar wording

Yes, Ben Beagle has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Mayor, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Ben Beagle, B-E-N-B-E-I-G-E-L.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed, counsel.

Similar wording

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Ben, did you hear my statements?

Similar wording

Yes, I did.

Similar wording

And are they true and correct?

Similar wording

Absolutely.

Similar wording

And do you adopt them as your testimony?

Similar wording

Yes, I would.

Similar wording

Nothing further, Mr. Chair?

Similar wording

questions or comments from the board can you go back to the site plan please certainly

Similar wording

we do have our architect available as well okay

Similar wording

all right so to be clear this is a four-story walk-up and the vacant lot at the corner now

Similar wording

is five lots and your property is three of those five so you're consolidating

Similar wording

three of them into a single lot with opa correct

Similar wording

you can you scroll down a little bit i can't see the whole site point

Similar wording

whoops sorry about that

Similar wording

that's

Similar wording

that's the bottom

Similar wording

that's the bottom uh still can't see it it's always gotta scroll over it's cutting off with

Similar wording

still can't see it

Similar wording

the second stairwell for us it might just be how far it's zoomed in on your computer

Similar wording

yeah maybe you have to zoom in a little bit or zoom out a little bit more

Similar wording

too much but yes

Similar wording

like okay so yeah so who so what's the where's the house where's the trash being kept how is

Similar wording

the trash going to be removed on who has access to the yard through the use go ahead trash is

Similar wording

stored in the basement okay phone nine up in the front of the building we have a large trash area

Similar wording

in the basement of the building.

Similar wording

Access is through the back of the house.

Similar wording

It's only for, you know, access to the yard.

Similar wording

It's through the back of the structure,

Similar wording

and it's only for the people that live here.

Similar wording

Can you give me a second?

Similar wording

Hold on.

Similar wording

And then are the mechanicals in the basement

Similar wording

or in unit for each apartment?

Similar wording

Generally in here, but the architect could speak

Similar wording

to any specific questions you might have.

Similar wording

But that's what this large room is for, utilities and mechanicals.

Similar wording

And the trash is in the front.

Similar wording

Trash is in the front.

Similar wording

They're separated.

Similar wording

Laundries in unit?

Similar wording

Excuse me, I'm sorry.

Similar wording

Then laundry is in unit?

Similar wording

Laundries in each unit.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Is that the little square box that's outside of the bedrooms?

Similar wording

It's hard to read.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And my question is, the parallel unit to the utility unit,

Similar wording

Is that two units in the basement?

Similar wording

There's two units in the basement.

Similar wording

In the back, it's a one-bedroom.

Similar wording

In the front, it's a two-bedroom.

Similar wording

What's the depth of the basement slab below grade?

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

It's right there if you zoom into the egress well.

Similar wording

Yeah, I see it.

Similar wording

It's like eight.

Similar wording

Yeah, it's just two.

Similar wording

you're you're eight feet below grave yes

Similar wording

are the basement units only in the basement are they bi-level they're only in the basement

Similar wording

so the living so the living units in the basement are eight feet below

Similar wording

ground. Correct, but they have

Similar wording

Yeah, I say they have egress wells, but they're in for the ground.

Similar wording

They have egress wells, and

Similar wording

egress well, egress well, egress well, egress well.

Similar wording

So am I to understand that no one attended

Similar wording

the community meeting? That is correct. Well, the people from the RCO

Similar wording

did. But no residents on the block?

Similar wording

neighbors? None of the nearby neighbors. Wow, that's interesting. And my other question is,

Similar wording

like, has there been any kind of communication about replacing the mural that would be lost,

Similar wording

or is there a gap? That will be lost, and that was not an issue raised by anybody

Similar wording

at the RCO. I mean, we met with the RCO several times, had numerous correspondence with them,

Similar wording

I worked with Councilmember Young's office as well extensively to come up with the project and, you know, what to do here.

Similar wording

So we had several meetings with Common Crosley of the Councilmember's office.

Similar wording

There were mailings? I mean, letters were mailed out and nobody came to the meeting?

Similar wording

That is correct.

Similar wording

Wow, okay. Thank you.

Similar wording

We sent out, and there's our affidavit showing that they were sent.

Similar wording

There's the list of every property it was sent to, and we sent them out.

Similar wording

and we had one formal meeting and several informal meetings with the RCO.

Similar wording

Bunda Tate, I believe, is the name of the chair of the group.

Similar wording

I think my last question is, so what's the specific agreement, the final agreement that

Similar wording

was made with the RCO? Is it just about the affordability and the number of affordable units?

Similar wording

Yes, it's about the affordability, number of the units, unit sizes, specification, tenant eligibility, rent limits.

Similar wording

Oops, sorry.

Similar wording

Affordability, that's what they were interested in.

Similar wording

That's what we worked with them on.

Similar wording

And that's what we came up with in terms of a 50-year agreement with them.

Similar wording

They have the specific right to enforce it.

Similar wording

That's, you know, we spent a lot of time working with them on that.

Similar wording

Has your client have any experience renting to tenants?

Similar wording

Has your client have any experience renting to tenants that are below 80% AMI or marketing to tenants below 80% of AMI?

Similar wording

They do. I don't want to speak for them, but yes, they do.

Similar wording

And then has there been any thought about what the rents are going to be for those units and how those are going to be filled?

Similar wording

We did speak to them about that and reviewed the income limits that are out by the planning commission and also spoke to the RCO about, you know, how to get tenants in there and what they want to see and how they want us to market in the community.

Similar wording

So my question is, would your buy right option of 11 units, could you build possibly without having folks living in the basement, eight feet under the basement, in the basement?

Similar wording

i mean i guess theoretically you could

Similar wording

i don't know that they would but they could

Similar wording

have the have the units that are going to be designated for low income or as affordable

Similar wording

been identified like which ones they are on the floor plan we have not done that but we will meet

Similar wording

with the rco and they will agree with us as to what units get what designation that's part of

Similar wording

agreement with the rcl okay and then has i think that should include community members as well as

Similar wording

rcl because there's no community there's no full community input in this project and that that

Similar wording

concerns me understood and you know we did what we had to do and tried to get people out and send

Similar wording

out all the notices i mean i can't make people show up either and then what are the target rents

Similar wording

for these because it looks like it's it's six units so what do we know what the target rents

Similar wording

are for the six affordable units i don't have the numbers but we have two at 50 percent ami one at

Similar wording

60 percent ami and three at 80 percent ami i just don't have the specific numbers the specific

Similar wording

numbers in front of me okay does they're published by the they're published by the planning commission

Similar wording

and the guidance comes out every year sort of sort of but yeah okay you're using the city's

Similar wording

guidance that was my yes yes yes other questions questions or comments for our attorney

Similar wording

not at this time mr chair questions or comments from the virtual audience

Similar wording

yes chair tyrone williams has been allowed to speak

Similar wording

could you state your name please and spell for the stenographer yes reverend tyrone williams

Similar wording

Okay. Well, you were already sworn once today, Reverend.

Similar wording

I have a few questions about this project only because I'm concerned about the meetings that have taken place.

Similar wording

And as an affected RCO in the community, I have heard nothing about this project.

Similar wording

I'm also concerned about the rooftop decks and the egress wells, since we do have an overlay.

Similar wording

I wanted to know when was this project approved?

Similar wording

it doesn't seem to be a lot of community input and particularly from other RCOs

Similar wording

and as affected RCO I would like to get all documents and I would like to get a copy of

Similar wording

that agreement because this is the first time hearing this thank you there was only one RCO

Similar wording

Mr. Chairman that we were told to notify and that was all in the family CDC there were no other RCOs

Similar wording

And if you look on the City Planning Commission website, there is only one RCO for this property, and that is on the family CDC.

Similar wording

If that is the case, then I understand.

Similar wording

But I'm just saying if there were affected RCOs supposed to have been part of this process, including the benefit agreement, because it's a community benefit agreement, not just a benefit agreement, I would like to make sure that we are part of that process in the future.

Similar wording

or if we are indeed one of the affected or affected RCO for this project.

Similar wording

Again, Mr. Chairman, there was only one RCO that we were,

Similar wording

and if you look on the website, that's all you will find is one RCO,

Similar wording

and that's all in the family CDC.

Similar wording

Other questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

Yes, Chair, I have a hand up by the name of Teresa Brown.

Similar wording

They have been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

How could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Teresa Brown, please unmute yourself.

Similar wording

Hello? Chair, Teresa Brown is still on mute.

Similar wording

Or anyone else in the virtual audience?

Similar wording

Anyone else in the virtual audience? There are no more hands at this time.

Similar wording

There are no more hands at this time, too.

Similar wording

Planning Commission.

Similar wording

Amy, board with the Planning Commission.

Similar wording

The comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning at this location from the existing residential multifamily RM1.

Similar wording

The Planning Commission supports affordable housing development.

Similar wording

However, absent participation in a city, state, or federal program or city zoning initiative, such as a deed restriction, affordability mentioned the appellant's testimony cannot be enforced by any city agency.

Similar wording

Therefore, the Planning Commission has no objection to the requested variance for 18 multifamily units.

Similar wording

Mr. Mattione, I just want to take this back to executive session and have a conversation with the members of the board. We'll look to take action on this next Wednesday at 2 p.m.

Similar wording

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Okay, thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

All right. Number. Number nine, MI 2024, 004-238-225-73 Geiger Road. Sean Ward is the attorney.

Similar wording

is it greater busselton civic league vote was 39 in support one in opposition

Similar wording

letter of non-opposition from council member o'neill

Similar wording

Mr. Ward?

Similar wording

Do we see Mr. Ward?

Similar wording

Yes, Chair.

Similar wording

He's not in the audience.

Similar wording

He's not?

Similar wording

Mr. Ward has been promoted to penalist.

Similar wording

It looks like he is talking, but we cannot hear him.

Similar wording

Mr. Ward?

Similar wording

We're having a hard time hearing you, Mr. Ward.

Similar wording

My apologies, Chair.

Similar wording

It appears that Zoom is moving slow for some participants.

Similar wording

We're going to try to see if we can get Mr. Ward.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Mr. Ward is coming back in as a panelist.

Similar wording

Can you hear me now?

Similar wording

We can hear you, Mr. Ward.

Similar wording

Oh, can you see me?

Similar wording

Yes, I can, Mr. Ward. Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

I'd be more than happy to do so, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

My name is Sean Ward, S-H-A-W-N-W-A-R-D, attorney or applicant slash owner of the subject premises.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

And Mr. Ward, could you identify your client, please?

Similar wording

Yes. In this particular matter, I represent Al Stupowitz, that is S-U-P-O-W-I-T-Z, doing business as B&S Associates, which are the applicant and owner of the subject premises.

Similar wording

And our vice chair has just a few questions for you, sir.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Counselor. Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate to its agency?

Similar wording

I will waive. I have a question about it, but I would submit that regardless, we need zoning relief.

Similar wording

But I will address that as we go through.

Similar wording

That's a fair statement. Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed and required to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?

Similar wording

While they weren't submitted five days in advance, everything has been received and accepted by Board Counsel and the Zoning Board of Adjustment.

Similar wording

Thank you, Counsel. Please proceed and share your screen.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Okay, let me...

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

um chair can we confirm that my screen is shared yeah your your screen's there you might just want

Similar wording

to make it just a little bit larger a little a little bit of an eye testing that's that's fine

Similar wording

Okay. Again, I represent Al Suplowitz, who is in the virtual audience. He is a principal with B&S Associates, owner of the property at 225-73 Geiger Road, scheduled for today at 2 o'clock.

Similar wording

um this is an application uh my i've submitted my typical exhibit packet which includes

Similar wording

includes the uh list of exhibits and a summary of relief a1 is the notice of refusal

Similar wording

uh this is an application for adaptive reuse of industrial property uh for which there appears to

Similar wording

be no further demand for such use.

Similar wording

And it includes a rear addition as part of an existing detached structure for use as a

Similar wording

pickleball sports complex.

Similar wording

I'm sure everybody's aware that pickleball is the new craze.

Similar wording

And so we are looking to convert a substantial portion of this property, including an addition for a 10-court pickleball facility.

Similar wording

Obviously, it's not permitted in an I-2 industrial district.

Similar wording

With regard to the refusal, if I can just jump to that.

Similar wording

L&I is considering this assembly and entertainment.

Similar wording

However, I would submit it's active recreation, but in any event, it requires a variance for

Similar wording

this proposed use, whether it's considered assembly and entertainment or active recreation.

Similar wording

So that's the only thing that I wanted to point out with regard to the refusal.

Similar wording

But, you know, we acknowledge we need zoning board approval.

Similar wording

So regardless of how they categorize the use, it's not permitted in I-2 and we need a variant.

Similar wording

So A-2 is our application of appeal.

Similar wording

A-3 is the project information form.

Similar wording

our deed, proof of tax

Similar wording

clearance. A6

Similar wording

are our zoning site plans.

Similar wording

I beg the board's pardon.

Similar wording

I should

Similar wording

have deleted

Similar wording

typical floor plans because we have not

Similar wording

drawn

Similar wording

them up yet, pending approval.

Similar wording

And we have our

Similar wording

photographs, subject property, street

Similar wording

views, aerial views, and I do

Similar wording

have an additional screenshot

Similar wording

of posting, should the board need to see it.

Similar wording

Pardon me.

Similar wording

A9 is the RCO meeting notice and the certificate of mailing.

Similar wording

A10 is the letter from Greater Busselton.

Similar wording

I believe Jack O'Hara may have stayed on board for this hearing, and he may chime in

Similar wording

if needed.

Similar wording

I spoke to Councilman O'Neill's representative, Alice Udovich, who indicated that she submitted or they submitted a letter of non-opposition with regard to this application.

Similar wording

As far as relevant zoning history, going back to 2012, there was an auto repair shop and wholesale and distribution.

Similar wording

I would point out to the board that half of the existing building is occupied by the auto repair and one or other wholesale distribution businesses, i.e. a landscaper.

Similar wording

They are going to be exiting their occupancy.

Similar wording

So that portion of the building, in addition to the addition, will be used for the subject pickleball facility.

Similar wording

So at A13, we have the zoning map and A14 is the aerial photo.

Similar wording

So as far as existing conditions go, there's...

Similar wording

So as far as existing conditions go, there is a self-storage facility operated by the owners that is going to remain.

Similar wording

The auto repair use and the landscaper use, they will be vacating the building.

Similar wording

However, the landscaper will maintain some outdoor storage area, which does not affect this application one way or the other.

Similar wording

At present, the days and hours of operation of the pickleball facility would be Monday through Friday, roughly from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m.

Similar wording

Weekends, they haven't yet determined, but that would be forthcoming.

Similar wording

They anticipate 10 full-time employees and part-time employees as needed moving on.

Similar wording

Right now, they do include a juice bar, but that would be limited right now to vending machines, more or less self-serve.

Similar wording

As time goes on, if the juice snack bar requires or suggests that we need some actual employees and more active use, we would go to that.

Similar wording

So in my packet is the notice of refusal.

Similar wording

Here I'm going to zoom out just so you can see the docs.

Similar wording

The application of appeal.

Similar wording

The project information form.

Similar wording

My transmittal letter to the board.

Similar wording

This is the deed indicating that my applicant is the owner.

Similar wording

This is proof of tax clearance, all taxes are paid through the applicable tax period.

Similar wording

This would be the zoning site plan that was submitted, as you can see by the red bubble

Similar wording

outline.

Similar wording

uh this is the uh proposed addition to the existing building which is here

Similar wording

this is a rendering of the site plan showing what exists now uh right now there is this

Similar wording

field, which is basically parking, loading, et cetera.

Similar wording

And then what we are proposing is in the blue section would be the new addition.

Similar wording

As you can see, there is parking to the left, you know, in between the addition and the

Similar wording

existing building and parking out here. All this area to the right would

Similar wording

continue to exist as the outdoor storage uses.

Similar wording

Let me go down and here's just some exterior photos of the subject

Similar wording

property. This would be the main entry coming in from Geiger Road. This is

Similar wording

coming around to the rear again this is one of the tenants that currently

Similar wording

occupies which will be exiting currently on site is a cell tower utility site

Similar wording

again another interior photo of one of the tenants that will be exiting the

Similar wording

property. We had a meeting with Greater Busselton Civic League on November 19th. I would add that

Similar wording

I was on vacation. However, I did participate in that meeting from my vacation site with Jack O'Hara

Similar wording

and the Greater Busselton Civic League so as to not further delay this meeting.

Similar wording

We have the list of addresses that were sent to, our certificate of mailing.

Similar wording

Mr. O'Hara greatly submitted a letter of support.

Similar wording

As you can see, it was 39 to 1.

Similar wording

Let me blow that up.

Similar wording

So it's 39 to 1 in support of this application.

Similar wording

39 to 1 in support of this application.

Similar wording

Mr. Stupowitz is present to discuss how members of the league asked him to stay back to discuss this facility because they were quite very excited.

Similar wording

So this is just my zoning map.

Similar wording

uh you just heard a case previously around uh regarding 260 geiger road which is an in-ear

Similar wording

proximity but again red line road is running uh upper left the lower right uh the site where my

Similar wording

cursor is is the former uh bud plant um and then a golf course and now future site of the

Similar wording

much controverted USPS or some shipping site. So again, here is the aerial photograph.

Similar wording

This is the existing building. And as you can see from the prior plans,

Similar wording

the addition would be in this area right here where you see what appears to be

Similar wording

you know uh trailers trucks um but everything else on site will remain and uh two of the existing

Similar wording

uses the auto repair and uh one of the the landscaper in indoor storage and use will be

Similar wording

gone. That is the extent of my

Similar wording

presentation.

Similar wording

I do have Mr. Supperwitz in the

Similar wording

audience. Al, if you could raise your virtual hand

Similar wording

and then we can verify and adopt.

Similar wording

Alan Supperwitz

Similar wording

has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

could you please state your name is spelled for the court stenographer

Similar wording

it's alan a-l-l-e-n last name supowitz s-u-p-o-w-i-c-z

Similar wording

we're referring to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

Similar wording

yes i do please proceed counsel

Similar wording

al uh have you heard my representations to this board this day yes i have

Similar wording

And have they been true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information and belief?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

And would you adopt my representations as your own testimony?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Is there anything you might want to add in addition to what I've represented already?

Similar wording

um just said after our meeting with the bustling civic association a lot of people stayed actually

Similar wording

wouldn't even let us leave we were there for a while answering questions they were quite excited

Similar wording

as excited as i am to hopefully get this pickleball facility opened up so that that made me feel good

Similar wording

because it's going to be good for the community and good for everybody uh so that that's all i

Similar wording

want to add. I hope we can take everything into consideration. All right, Al. And you're familiar

Similar wording

with the issues that have been going on in that Geiger Road, Gantry Road, industrial park area,

Similar wording

correct? Yes. And to eliminate an auto repair use or the interior landscaper use,

Similar wording

Do you think that falls in line with what the desires of the owners and operators over there? Is it consistent?

Similar wording

Yes, it is. I believe it is.

Similar wording

Okay. And given your close proximity to residential development in Greater Busselton, do you think this is an appropriate use for your property? And do you anticipate success, especially given this pickleball craze that's ongoing?

Similar wording

Yes, I do. Just with the response that we've had from the people that know we're trying to get this to go through, they've been very, very excited and they're looking forward to it, as I am.

Similar wording

Okay. Thank you, Al. Mr. Chair, I believe either Alice Udovich from Councilman O'Neill's office is either online or submitted a non-opposition.

Similar wording

So just while you have your client on, just out of curiosity,

Similar wording

could you ask him how high he's going to build?

Similar wording

What height?

Similar wording

I mean, like you can't do like an eight-foot ceiling.

Similar wording

You got to take – how large will the building be?

Similar wording

How large will the building be?

Similar wording

The height's going to be as high as my current warehouse, around 23 feet.

Similar wording

The height's going to be as high.

Similar wording

It's not going to be any higher.

Similar wording

It's going to be the same height as the current warehouse.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Questions from the board?

Similar wording

I think it's pickleball, and you can drop your kids off at the daycare,

Similar wording

play a game of pickleball, and pick them up, I think.

Similar wording

It would be pretty cool.

Similar wording

I don't know.

Similar wording

Hey, Michael, you know, to me, pickleball is a cross between ping pong and tennis.

Similar wording

You know, it's like somewhere in the middle there.

Similar wording

People are loving it.

Similar wording

But, yeah, you know, and not for nothing.

Similar wording

You know, in my neighborhood, you know, there's outdoor pickleball courts and people complain about the noise.

Similar wording

You know, the whack, the whack, the whack, you know.

Similar wording

And but this is this is going to be indoor. And that that that question was raised at Greater Busselton about, you know, are you going to be able to hear it from outside the building?

Similar wording

And, you know, we said no, because, you know, now that it's not just a strictly warehouse use, you know, it's going to be insulated because people need to feel comfortable in an HVAC, you know, area.

Similar wording

so uh no so you know you know we believe we addressed that but it's funny you know how people

Similar wording

uh how people respond but now we you know we think um you know given the uh you know the area

Similar wording

residential uses and this uh demand for pickleball um you know i think i think al's on to something

Similar wording

here and it's going to be uh it's going to be good for the neighborhood thank you other questions

Similar wording

from the board i have a question about signage so i've noticed it's not a part of this application

Similar wording

and has the tenant or the owner thought about what signage they're going to need for this facility

Similar wording

and is the plan for that to just be a future zoning application uh i would i would just submit

Similar wording

that you know signage as permitted uh if there is anything that uh requested that is you know

Similar wording

outside of what's permitted, you know, we'll be back to see you.

Similar wording

Questions from the board.

Similar wording

Questions from our attorney, Hillary Emerson.

Similar wording

Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience.

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Planning Commissioner.

Similar wording

Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission.

Similar wording

The comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning at this location from the existing medium industrial I-2.

Similar wording

The appellant has not demonstrated that there are unique physical conditions or circumstances

Similar wording

that would prevent the property from being used in conformance with the zoning code.

Similar wording

The Planning Commission recommends that the Board deny the requested variance for assembly and entertainment.

Similar wording

hillary are we okay with that assembly and entertainment as a

Similar wording

so i i was thinking about that mr chair i'm wondering if that's and i have to check with

Similar wording

lni but i wonder if it was put in that category because it is an indoor facility i believe we

Similar wording

had a case before that was um like a rock climbing gym and they were considered that assembly and

Similar wording

entertainment um i have to check i mean it i don't i don't mind checking with lni but that

Similar wording

would be my guess as to why it got that designation i'm glad sean yeah if if i may

Similar wording

um you know i i you're the one that raised that issue by the way you'd raise the issue

Similar wording

yeah uh but i i've looked through both sections of the code and this seems to be something that

Similar wording

doesn't really fall into one category or the other uh so l and i considers it assembly and

Similar wording

entertainment um which you know i'm not going to argue against uh me personally yeah i would think

Similar wording

it's some kind of you know recreation or athletic or something but um you know if if l and i in their

Similar wording

you know, infinite wisdom

Similar wording

determines

Similar wording

or concludes that

Similar wording

it's a

Similar wording

assembly and

Similar wording

entertainment use, then, you know, I'm not

Similar wording

going to argue with that, but

Similar wording

I just raised it as a question

Similar wording

because, you know,

Similar wording

and Mr. Chair, if you're

Similar wording

concerned about the use not being specific

Similar wording

enough, because this is something

Similar wording

this is something that it would i mean it could arguably go into personal services as well which

Similar wording

that would, I mean, it could

Similar wording

arguably go into personal services as well,

Similar wording

which is

Similar wording

is also not permitted in your industrial oh you know we zoning we added so we added this

Similar wording

we added this down on delaware avenue to a large property we had down there

Similar wording

and they actually made it like a club remember they had a liquor license and things like that

Similar wording

where you could watch games and all right right right right yeah um but if you if you were concerned

Similar wording

about the use the category being overly broad you could provide so it's specific use within that

Similar wording

category yeah yeah hillary you know we're we're willing to accept the refusal as stated and uh

Similar wording

you know and ask the board to grant uh the variance from that which was issued uh because

Similar wording

you know we acknowledge that regardless of what category falls in you know i mean we can argue

Similar wording

that until the cows come home but uh you know we'll accept the refusal as assembly and entertainment

Similar wording

because people are actually assembling you know to play pickleball okay all right okay all right

Similar wording

so mi 2024 004 238 225 to 73 geiger road i vote yes my vote is yes

Similar wording

cheryl guest and my vote is yes tenetta graham my vote is yes i went my vote is yes

Similar wording

ishmael shaheed my vote is yes thank you council number 12 that concludes my business maybe excuse

Similar wording

sure you absolutely yep so number 12 mi 2024 004 377 4902 knock street alan knockamson

Similar wording

is the attorney. Letter of

Similar wording

unanimous

Similar wording

opposition from Solo Germantown.

Similar wording

The vote was for

Similar wording

an opposition to the Bureau in support.

Similar wording

Mr.

Similar wording

Nockmson, you've already been sworn that I could

Similar wording

just for the record, could you please state your name?

Similar wording

Nockmson.

Similar wording

could you uh identify your client a relationship to the property yeah my client is warren realty

Similar wording

holdings llc the owner of the property and our vice chair has just a few questions for you sir

Similar wording

good afternoon counsel do you agree the way to read another refusal or stipulate to us

Similar wording

accuracy i do have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits as needed

Similar wording

and required to proceed with this case

Similar wording

five days in advance of this hearing?

Similar wording

Yes, we have.

Similar wording

Thank you, counsel.

Similar wording

Please proceed and share your screen.

Similar wording

All right, thank you.

Similar wording

Let me do that.

Similar wording

All right, so first things first,

Similar wording

we're asking that I be able to present

Similar wording

and then have a resumption hearing.

Similar wording

um we originally had a date earlier this year uh for a hearing we continued that hearing to

Similar wording

allow us to have a community i think a second community meeting we've been on we were unable

Similar wording

to get that second community meeting uh for it to take place by today um we do have it scheduled

Similar wording

for January 7th, so we would ask that I would be able to present. We did have a community meeting,

Similar wording

just no vote was taken at the original one, and that we would have a resumption hearing. It would

Similar wording

be helpful if we can have it sometime in January, but I'm sure our office will work with the ZBA's

Similar wording

administrator on that. Yeah, and I think that's part of, I think I heard when I was transitioning

Similar wording

in to the panelists. There is a letter from

Similar wording

Solo, and I think they were upset we never had a community meeting

Similar wording

thinking I was going to just present this to the board without that

Similar wording

second community meeting, and that was not our intention. So I just want to let you know that

Similar wording

as well. So we have, you know, our typical table

Similar wording

of contents is our notice of refusal. We were waiting

Similar wording

from correspondence from the 12th Ward Democratic Committee, hoping to have

Similar wording

that second community meeting. We did not. I did slip in the letter from Solo, just as full

Similar wording

disclosure. We do have a petition, a pretty extensive petition of people in support of

Similar wording

this project, as well as a letter from the owner of 4900 Knox Street, which is next to us,

Similar wording

in support of this project. Not out of character to have multifamily on this block

Similar wording

for RSA 5 properties of this sort.

Similar wording

4,900 NOx is multifamily,

Similar wording

which is next door to us on the left.

Similar wording

4,904 to the right of us, multifamily.

Similar wording

multifamily. 4901, 03, 05, 07, and 13 are on multifamily. We'll go through that in our

Similar wording

4,901, 03, 05, 07, and 13 are multifamily.

Similar wording

presentation. We'll then review maps of the area, photographs of the property in the surrounding

Similar wording

area, our simple plans and drawings. Again, all we're doing is a legalization here. My client

Similar wording

bought it as a triplex, expecting to be able to get rental licenses as a triplex. Came as a shock

Similar wording

to him when he tried to get rental licenses and found out that, you know, given this is an RSA

Similar wording

property, we would have to go through this process. I have the RCO meeting notice. I don't

Similar wording

know if it's for the original one or the future one, but we have something showing that we did

Similar wording

meet with the community or plan to meet a second time with the community. Our applications for

Similar wording

appeal that we filed on behalf of Warren Realty Holdings, LLC, the deed to the property showing

Similar wording

that they own the property and the certificate of tax clearance. At the conclusion of my presentation,

Similar wording

I would ask that Matt Kahn, the owner's representative, virtually raise his hand and be sworn in.

Similar wording

Notice of refusal. So this is an RSA3 property. We're asking for three family household living.

Similar wording

It looked like there's two doors there.

Similar wording

My client took the casing of that looks like a door that was a window and put in a door in there.

Similar wording

So there's a direct access for the first floor units from the outside.

Similar wording

And then the second and third floor units, we go through a separate door.

Similar wording

Originally, when my client purchased the property, it was one door, you know, three, one front door, three units.

Similar wording

Now it's two front doors, three units.

Similar wording

But we have two refusals.

Similar wording

One is for the fact that we're seeking multifamily use.

Similar wording

And this is RSA 3, which is not allowed under the code.

Similar wording

Again, this property was three units when we purchased it.

Similar wording

It looks like it has a long history of three units.

Similar wording

It's a picture of three mailboxes that were associated with this property before my client purchased the property.

Similar wording

And there are, I believe, six or seven instances of multifamily structures just on that block, including ones to the left and right of us.

Similar wording

The second refusal has to do with parking.

Similar wording

you know because this is an RSA 3 property we are required to have some type of off-street parking

Similar wording

on the property itself it would be physically impossible for us to have parking here given

Similar wording

that this is an existing building structure and parking wouldn't fit on this property and again

Similar wording

not out of character because you don't see that in this neighborhood anyway even when you have

Similar wording

multiple units, such as the ones I referenced beforehand. Correspondence, we did not have a

Similar wording

second meeting with the community, and I think that's why Solo was upset. Obviously, we are

Similar wording

planning to have one January 7th, 2025. And then this is their explanation about this project.

Similar wording

I feel like it would be more appropriate for me to respond after we have the community meeting.

Similar wording

Petition. Again, you see my client really focused on the properties on Knox Street.

Similar wording

And then here's a letter of support from Knox as well.

Similar wording

And then the 4,900 blocks of Knox Street are nearby multifamily. We have three units on 4,901

Similar wording

Knox Street, four units at 4903 Knox Street, three units for 4905 Knox Street, three units for 4907

Similar wording

Knox Street, three units for 4903 Knox Street. All these properties, including ours, are very

Similar wording

large lots. Our lot is 1,882 square feet. And in addition to those lots I mentioned, again,

Similar wording

And 4,900 and 4,904, which are connected to us to left and right, are also multifamily in nature.

Similar wording

Maps to the area, well, yeah, to the outside world, this looks like a solid single-family neighborhood.

Similar wording

It's not.

Similar wording

There's multiple instances just like us where multifamily has been there.

Similar wording

We're just trying to legalize that use so we can use the property for three-family dwelling.

Similar wording

That's what we thought we were buying.

Similar wording

um again we're not we're off wayne area avenue which you know has you know public transportation

Similar wording

and it's also commercial zoning in nature photographs of the property um can't really

Similar wording

see it here but this is where the three mailboxes are um but you know we didn't really change

Similar wording

anything other than this door this door used to be a window um and again everyone prior to us

Similar wording

purchasing it would go through the front door we'll look at the floor plans but you would make

Similar wording

a right immediate right to the first floor unit and then each floor has its own unit this window

Similar wording

this window that was encased, like you would see it like a door, my client's like, well,

Similar wording

that's was in case like you would see it like a door my clients like

Similar wording

might as well just have the first floor unit have direct access to their unit from the outside. And

Similar wording

that's the only change that he made. Everything else has stayed the same. Here's our orange notice

Similar wording

poster for today's hearing. This is Knox Street to the right of the property, Knox Street to the

Similar wording

left of the property. And then we just decided, you know, here, here are some interior photos of

Similar wording

our property. Again, my client hasn't really made any changes at all.

Similar wording

And then just our plans and drawings, again, existing footprints, but, you know, here's the

Similar wording

two doors, the door to the right, which was added. It was a window before. Before that,

Similar wording

you would go through the door in the front, the left one, and you would just make a right into

Similar wording

unit number one, and again, going up the steps for units two and three each on a separate floor.

Similar wording

Instead, we have this door here, which is unit number one. It's an open floor plan, and it has

Similar wording

a bedroom and a full bath down here. And then there is a lower level, which again, is just

Similar wording

finished, but there's no living, you know, there's no bedrooms in the basement. This is where the hot

Similar wording

order, uh, heaters are for each of the units. Each of the units have washer and dryers in the

Similar wording

units, as well as separate HVAC units in the individual units. Instead of going through the

Similar wording

front door to the right for unit number one, you go through the front door to the left,

Similar wording

you go up a flight, you get in the vestibule area, you go up a flight of steps. Uh, this is

Similar wording

a one-bedroom, one-bath. And then you, instead of, you know, again, open floor plan, kitchen,

Similar wording

living room again the HVAC units here with a washer and dryer bathroom and then a bedroom

Similar wording

you go instead of unit number two you go up to another flight of steps is unit number three

Similar wording

and again you would see an open floor plan kitchen living room area HVAC along with a washer and

Similar wording

dryer and here is the bedroom they actually have two bedrooms here and here's the bath behind that

Similar wording

RCO meeting notice we met on September 19th at 6 p.m.

Similar wording

This is proof of our mailing to the 99 addresses that we're in, that we're required to mail notice of that community meeting.

Similar wording

Our application for appeal that we filed on behalf of Warren's Realty Holdings, LLC,

Similar wording

along with the notice of refusal, the project information form, the deed to the property showing that they own the property,

Similar wording

And then filing the Certificate of Tax Clearance. Well, it does say we have a balance here. It's because of 2025 taxes, which are not yet due yet.

Similar wording

I was actually told that another member of the LLC, Siobhan Jackson, is actually in the virtual audience instead. So I would ask that Siobhan virtually raise his hands.

Similar wording

Siobhan Jackson has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stodogar?

Similar wording

Good afternoon, everyone.

Similar wording

My name is Siobhan Jackson.

Similar wording

Could you spell, please, for the reporter?

Similar wording

C-H-A-B-O-N-E-J-A-C-K-S-O-N.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Please proceed, counsel.

Similar wording

hi yes um mr jackson you heard everything i had to state today about jorzoni matter yes is it true

Similar wording

and correct yes do you adopt as your own testimony yes thank you uh one other point um members of

Similar wording

the board and i failed to state that during my presentation is that this this property does not

Similar wording

have a history of single family use if you look at the lni file for this at one point this was a

Similar wording

single-family home with a separate daycare in it. So even though this is an RSA-3 zoning

Similar wording

classification, it's never really been used as single-family. And given the surrounding area

Similar wording

and how similarly situated properties are multifamily in nature, despite its zoning

Similar wording

classification, I respectfully request that the board grant the variance for three-family dwelling.

Similar wording

We'll do that the next time we get together.

Similar wording

questions from the board

Similar wording

I should say we'll vote the next time

Similar wording

I have no question

Similar wording

I have a question just for some clarity

Similar wording

so you're saying that your client purchased

Similar wording

the property as a triplex but he

Similar wording

installed the door the second door

Similar wording

yeah the second door

Similar wording

so what happened is

Similar wording

and let me get to the floor plans and I think

Similar wording

maybe I didn't explain it that well

Similar wording

let's see

Similar wording

So

Similar wording

so before when this door didn't exist this was just a window but the shape of the window was

Similar wording

it was a door so i mean that's what it looked like and he's and he instead so all he did was

Similar wording

literally put a door in that casing where that where that window used to be before what happened

Similar wording

is before that that door was there this door the front door to the property gave exclusive

Similar wording

of access to unit number one. There used to be a door right here for direct access to unit number

Similar wording

one. And then you would go up a flight of steps for unit number two, go up another flight of

Similar wording

steps for unit number three. Did I answer your question? I guess my question is, was the new

Similar wording

owner, did they do that work? Or when they purchased a property, was that original door

Similar wording

to the first one there? No, that's the only thing that my client did do. After he purchased the

Similar wording

property, he added that second door. Okay. Then found out that it wasn't zoned for triplex

Similar wording

legally? Yeah. So when he tried to get the rental license for three units,

Similar wording

he didn't realize that this wasn't a legal triplex and that's when we were hired.

Similar wording

Thank you. You're welcome.

Similar wording

Any questions for the board?

Similar wording

Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Amberson?

Similar wording

not at this time mr chair

Similar wording

questions or comments from the virtual audience yes chair charles richardson has been allowed to

Similar wording

speak i'm mr richardson how are you sir i'm well chair um charles richardson r-i-p-h-a-r-d-s-o-n

Similar wording

office of councilwoman cindy bass room 508 city hall you swear or affirm to tell the truth told

Similar wording

truth is nothing but the truth i certainly do please proceed uh i wanted to add this little

Similar wording

clarity to uh you're receiving this um this this letter from solo germantown um it's very confusing

Similar wording

and i sent something in a little earlier today i don't know whether you guys got it or not

Similar wording

uh and and and it seems that solo tends to give wrong numbers and things along those lines

Similar wording

There were individuals there that had been invited by Ms. Weiss, who lived outside of the neighborhood and outside of that territory.

Similar wording

And they only list that nine people were there, including myself, two attorneys, and several other people, but also four solo members, which she called the community.

Similar wording

That was not the case because, again, she had more individuals there who did not live in that neighborhood.

Similar wording

It was agreed by strongly suggested, number one, by me and agreed by by everyone else that there would be a second meeting because there were no near neighbors there.

Similar wording

In fact, Ted Stones, the board leader and chair of the coordinating RCO, had said that he would, when they scheduled the next meeting, he would be going around door to door, you know, and trying to get people to respond and come out to that meeting.

Similar wording

So, you know, I found out this morning that there was another meeting that was scheduled, which Mr. Nuckamson has said will be in early January.

Similar wording

So we are not opposed to having a resumption hearing so that we can actually get the near neighbors out and then get their opinion and see where everything stands from that point.

Similar wording

So just wanted to add that little bit of clarity to that.

Similar wording

There was no vote taken or anything for anybody to make a determination such as what you guys received.

Similar wording

Thank you very much for taking this time to pause.

Similar wording

We appreciate it.

Similar wording

Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?

Similar wording

I see no more hands at this time, Terry.

Similar wording

Planning Commission, we're going to have a resumptive hearing.

Similar wording

You want to hold your vote until then?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

So there'll be a resumptive hearing after there's a second meeting.

Similar wording

We'll update it and then go back to the board and also the virtual audience to see where we stand and then planning and we'll vote.

Similar wording

Okay, Hillary?

Similar wording

That sounds good, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

Similar wording

All right. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Nackamson.

Similar wording

All right. MI 2024, 005-779-6300-18 Stenton Avenue.

Similar wording

Merneth Ferliger is the attorney.

Similar wording

Unanimous support from the Cliveland Hill Association.

Similar wording

Meredith Ferliger will be joining us as a panelist.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, counsel.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Sure thing.

Similar wording

Meredith Ferliger, F-E-R-L-E-G-E-R.

Similar wording

We're affirmed to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Could you identify your client, the relationship to this property?

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

My client this afternoon is Citizens Bank N.A., which is the lessee of the property at 6300 Staten Avenue.

Similar wording

White Chair has a few questions for you.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Counselor.

Similar wording

Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?

Similar wording

I sure do.

Similar wording

Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that is needed to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?

Similar wording

I did. Thank you, counsel. Please proceed and share your screen.

Similar wording

Already done. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Again, Meredith Ferliger of

Similar wording

Gilworth Paxson here this afternoon on behalf of Citizens Bank. I should have one of our project

Similar wording

managers with Citizens Bank in the audience today, as well as a representative from the

Similar wording

sign company, Ms. Yoretta Hale. Before the board today is a proposal for the replacement of an

Similar wording

existing freestanding sign that is a part of Citizens Bank rebranding and signage modernization

Similar wording

program at 6300 Stanton Avenue. The sign in question has been in its current location in

Similar wording

some fashion since the early 90s, but the zoning code has since changed, which now requires a

Similar wording

variance even just for the replacement of the existing sign. Given the extraordinarily

Similar wording

straightforward nature of this request, I will keep my presentation short today and will be

Similar wording

very happy to answer any questions that the board might have. Our exhibit packet in front of you

Similar wording

contains 16 exhibits, which we do request be moved into evidence at the conclusion of the presentation.

Similar wording

That exhibit packet includes tax clearance at Exhibit 2, as well as a redacted copy of

Similar wording

Citizens' Lease at Exhibit 3. And just by way of context for board council, the lease was signed

Similar wording

in 1971 by Gerard Trust Bank, who was a predecessor to Citizens Bank. So this lease is still in effect

Similar wording

today. At Exhibit 10, you will see on the zoning map that the property at 6300 Staten Avenue is

Similar wording

Zone CMX2, and sits right at the corner of Stanton Avenue and East Washington Lane.

Similar wording

We've also included aerial views, which are up on your screen at Exhibit 11.

Similar wording

From this image here, you'll notice that there are two freestanding signs here.

Similar wording

You can somewhat see them in this image here, one on Stanton and one on East Washington Lane.

Similar wording

You can see these slightly better here in this view from the west. I'll zoom in a little bit.

Similar wording

And again, you can see those two existing freestanding signs. You'll also take note

Similar wording

in these aerial images that this is a fairly dense commercial area with the bank right at

Similar wording

the corner here. Street perspective photographs are shown here at Exhibit 16. These reflect that

Similar wording

the bank and all the exist these photographs reflect the bank itself and all the existing

Similar wording

signage prior to the modernization efforts commencing and again here you will see those

Similar wording

two existing freestanding signs which exist on each of the property frontages the next view here

Similar wording

is from stanton avenue and as i will show you momentarily all of this signage in this image

Similar wording

is being replaced but was permitted prior to the filing of this application.

Similar wording

The next view for context here is from East Washington Lane where the parking lot sits.

Similar wording

This here, as you'll see in this image, is the freestanding sign at issue before the board today.

Similar wording

This is identified as sign S2. This next image is also shown from the parking lot and again you'll

Similar wording

just see the context of the two signs. The next view is just facing in the opposite direction.

Similar wording

And again, as you'll see from these images here, this is a commercial corridor with no

Similar wording

residential uses surrounding the bank property. Again, right from the corner, there's an auto

Similar wording

zone directly across the street. And in the back along East Washington Lane is a Dunkin' Donut.

Similar wording

And in the back, along East Washington Lane, is a Dunkin' Donuts.

Similar wording

We did also include photographs of the zoning posters, which were timely posted on both frontages of this property.

Similar wording

Now, in terms of general project context, I did include at Exhibit 6 some before and after images of all of the signage that is being replaced with the modernization program

Similar wording

and Citizens Rebranding Program.

Similar wording

You may or may not know that Citizens Bank

Similar wording

is actually becoming just citizens.

Similar wording

So that is one of the reasons why this signage

Similar wording

is all being switched out,

Similar wording

not just on this branch location, but nationwide.

Similar wording

All of the signage that you'll see in these images here

Similar wording

was previously approved by Wright,

Similar wording

but I thought it would be helpful for the board

Similar wording

for me to include it for context.

Similar wording

This Washington Lane frontage does not have much signage, but the facade will also be updated with newer color bands.

Similar wording

There's also a couple of smaller signs around the site that will also be updated as well.

Similar wording

At the Stanton Avenue frontage at Exhibit 7, this shows the existing, the sign S1 that is being replaced, which was previously permitted.

Similar wording

So the Staten Avenue freestanding sign is not before the board today.

Similar wording

Now, before I actually move into the sign that's in front of you today, just by way of historical context, I did at Exhibit 9 include permits reflecting two zoning permits, both from 1991 and 2002.

Similar wording

In 1991, you'll see here on the right, two existing freestanding signs were first built for the Mellon PSFS Bank.

Similar wording

Those signs were each 7 by 8 feet and 20 feet high with interior illumination.

Similar wording

In 2002, you'll see here on the left, Citizens Bank took over and two new Citizens branded pylon signs were installed.

Similar wording

These were replaced with two new 55 square foot signs that were 19 feet high each.

Similar wording

Now Citizens First applied to replace all of its signage for the current 2024 monetization back in

Similar wording

August. All of those replacements were approved by Wright, with the exception of the one freestanding

Similar wording

sign. As the board may know, CMX 2 only permits one freestanding sign per property, where in this

Similar wording

case, two have a very long history of existing on this site. I did also include that August zoning

Similar wording

permit just for reference. So turning back again, the proposed freestanding sign on East Washington

Similar wording

Lane that is replacing the existing sign is shown here at Exhibit 8. This does reflect a revised

Similar wording

plan that we did submit to the board and a revised plan proviso form, which I will address.

Similar wording

This proposed sign is 72 feet high, is 72 feet high, 72 square feet and 18 feet high.

Similar wording

This sign was originally proposed to be 15 feet high, but during the community meeting,

Similar wording

community members very wisely pointed out some of the site conditions that would actually

Similar wording

potentially impair some of the visibility of the Stanton Avenue freestanding sign at the then

Similar wording

proposed height. I think I can actually show you that here. If you've seen this image, they pointed

Similar wording

out that this wall might actually impair visibility. So as a result, we are going to

Similar wording

increase the height of the sign by just a couple of feet to avoid that impairment on Stanton Avenue.

Similar wording

So, per CMX2 regulations, a freestanding sign may be 20 feet high, so this change still remains

Similar wording

code compliant. The sign itself will have internal elimination, and we do have representatives from

Similar wording

the sign company should the board have any detail questions. The revised plan submitted to the board

Similar wording

are four pages, which should be consistent with the number of pages that was originally submitted

Similar wording

to L&I. Now regarding the refusal, as I referenced earlier, only one refusal was issued for this

Similar wording

proposed sign since CMX2 would only permit one freestanding sign on this two-street frontage

Similar wording

location. The applicant submits to a hardship primarily as a result of the over 20-year history

Similar wording

of a variety of banks at this location benefiting from two freestanding signs. Although the proposed

Similar wording

sign is entirely consistent in both overall size and height to the currently existing signs.

Similar wording

to the currently existing signs, the zoning code dictates that a nonconformity or previously

Similar wording

The zoning code dictates that a non-conform

Similar wording

permitted condition is lost upon demolition. This would be the third time these signs are

Similar wording

being replaced in their current location on site. Even if the sign itself was not already existing,

Similar wording

the unique site conditions here would still dictate the necessity to have the second sign

Similar wording

at East Washington Lane at the entry point to ensure adequate visibility for customers

Similar wording

on this nearly 20,000-square-foot property. Unless a driver or a pedestrian is directly

Similar wording

at the corner, you cannot see the other freestanding sign from each of their locations.

Similar wording

There's also minimal signage on the East Washington Lane frontage other than this sign,

Similar wording

further warranting the continued presence of the sign itself.

Similar wording

The proposal is the least minimum variance, given that the sign is consistent in height

Similar wording

and overall square footage, to the historical signs that existed in the location.

Similar wording

The dimensions of the sign itself are permitted by the zoning code.

Similar wording

The signage will not create congestion, harm neighbors' properties,

Similar wording

impair light and air, or impair area infrastructure or facilities.

Similar wording

The signs will maintain the status quo condition of the site and ensure the continued visit, continued viability of this neighborhood bank branch.

Similar wording

Full legal analysis, as always, is provided in the memo of law submitted to the board at Exhibit 12.

Similar wording

And I would be very happy to touch on any particular point if you require additional clarification or justification.

Similar wording

As Mr. Chairman mentioned, we did meet with Cliveden Hills Association, and they unanimously, understandably, supported this request, and that is shown in the packet at Exhibit 15.

Similar wording

So at this time, I would ask if Grace Paolo is in the audience to dot my testimony.

Similar wording

She may come up as Grasa.

Similar wording

Can we share her hand?

Similar wording

Yes, Chair. Grace Paolo has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Grace?

Similar wording

She has been allowed to speak, Chair, and there on mute.

Similar wording

Could you hear me now?

Similar wording

We can.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Absolutely.

Similar wording

The name is Graza Paolo, G-R-A-C-A, last name P-A-U-L-O.

Similar wording

You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed, counsel.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Grace, can you identify your title with Citizens Bank?

Similar wording

Yes, I am a project manager.

Similar wording

And you're authorized to speak on behalf of Citizens Bank concerning the details of this application?

Similar wording

Yes, I am.

Similar wording

And have you heard all the testimony and evidence that was offered in front of the board today?

Similar wording

I have.

Similar wording

And would you agree that testimony was true and accurate, and would you adopt it as if you had given it yourself?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Thank you. Happy to answer any questions.

Similar wording

Questions from the board.

Similar wording

questions or comments from our attorney hillary emberson

Similar wording

um i just wanted to note for for you mr chair um it just approves it is for it is four pages

Similar wording

of revised plans i initially had put that's right okay yeah it's four yep thank you questions or

Similar wording

comments from the virtual audience i see no he's at this time too planning commission

Similar wording

Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission.

Similar wording

The comprehensive plan recommends no changing zoning at this location from the existing commercial residential mixed use CMX2.

Similar wording

The proposed signs are consistent with prior signs if not under the use of adjoining properties.

Similar wording

The City Planning Commission recommends that the Board grant the requested variance for freestanding signs.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

MI 2024-005-779-6300-18-Centon Avenue.

Similar wording

I vote yes.

Similar wording

Proviso, revised plans, four pages, stamped by CBA on December 11th, 2024.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, my vote is yes with Proviso.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with Proviso.

Similar wording

My vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

My vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Thank you, council.

Similar wording

Thank you, everyone.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

No, 14 MI 2024-005-840, 1314 Dorrance Street.

Similar wording

So, 14 MI 2024-005-8.

Similar wording

Alok Sokoloff is the attorney.

Similar wording

There's a letter of unanimous support from the Point Breeze Community Development.

Similar wording

Look, it also provided 14 letters of support, four from the block.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board, Oleg Sokolov, on behalf of the applicant.

Similar wording

Just for the record, Mr. Sokolov, could you please spell your name?

Similar wording

Sure. Oleg Sokolov, S-O-K, pardon me, O-L-E-G, S-O-K-O-L-O-V.

Similar wording

We're referring to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Could you identify your client in relationship to the property?

Similar wording

Yes, my client is the property owner, Bull Real Estate Ventures, LLC, and Ms. Dana Dugan is the sole member of that LLC and is on the line with me here today.

Similar wording

Our vice chair has a few questions for you, sir.

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, counsel. Do you agree to read another refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?

Similar wording

I generally would, Mr. Shahid. The caveat being I received the communication from Ms. Boyd today regarding some clarity on the refusal.

Similar wording

I'm not sure that it's incorrect, but I believe it is the same issue addressed to both the structure itself and then the roof deck.

Similar wording

So it's ostensibly from what I can understand in the refusal, and perhaps Ms. Boyd or Ms. Emerson can correct me if I'm wrong, but they're both related to the rear yard setback,

Similar wording

one being for the deck which is on the second floor and one being for the structure itself at

Similar wording

the first floor level understood have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits as

Similar wording

needed to proceed with this case five days in advance of the hearing i have um however i would

Similar wording

ask for a little liberty from the board given this this issue that was raised by ms boyd i

Similar wording

do have some additional photos that i'd like to share and ask that they'd be entered into evidence

Similar wording

as well. Please proceed. You've already shared your screen. Thank you very much. Good afternoon

Similar wording

again, members of the board. So what we are here seeking to do is legalize an existing condition

Similar wording

that was present on the property when Bull Real Estate Ventures and Ms. Dugan purchased the

Similar wording

property just in February of 2024. We are talking about a dimensional issue on a lot that is less

Similar wording

than 46 inches in 46 feet pardon me in depth therefore requiring a seven foot rear yard in

Similar wording

an rsa5 and we are asking for the boards uh for the board to grant a variance for use as a for a

Similar wording

five foot um rear yard setback this so what we have here and i'll get into it in the pictures is

Similar wording

we have a small deck above the back portion of the house, which is subject to the setback

Similar wording

requirement. And that, I believe, again, is what generates the secondary refusal per Table 14701.

Similar wording

I think it'll be a little more evident once we take a look at pictures of what's going on. So

Similar wording

a little background. Ms. Dugan, on behalf of the entity, purchased the property in February 2024.

Similar wording

As I said, and this property was basically in shell condition with existing framing that the previous owner had installed rotting, requiring replacement.

Similar wording

And in April of this same year of 2024, a violation for this nonconformity, as well as some other present issues at the property that are more pertinent to building permits than zoning permits were existent and a stop work order was issued.

Similar wording

Ms. Dugan and the entity ceased all construction, retained us as counsel, and we immediately put in for the appropriate zoning permit to legalize the nonconformity.

Similar wording

So, as stated, here's the deed to the property showing purchase in February of 2024.

Similar wording

here is the best we could do for evidence of tax clearance once again this is the 2025 balance that

Similar wording

as stated by by numerous presenters here today is not due yet so we consider the entity in the

Similar wording

property to be tax compliant however you know what I take that back I believe she even made

Similar wording

payment for the 2025. So we're fully paid up. This is just a view down the block. This boarded

Similar wording

up property is the property in question. And I apologize, just have to resize a few things here.

Similar wording

And I apologize, just have to resize a few things here.

Similar wording

So this is actually a picture of it even prior to Bull Ventures owning it, but even prior to construction undertaken by the previous owner.

Similar wording

So this is a 2019 picture of the property.

Similar wording

And you can see Doran Street is a property, as I'll show later, that has had a number of these

Similar wording

sorts of variances issued, including the immediately adjacent properties. I'll show

Similar wording

some aerial photos that show that the lot, basically every property on this side of the

Similar wording

street has an almost identical um non-conformity and had a variance issued for the five foot rear

Similar wording

yard setback just the zoning map of the property here doran street for for references is located

Similar wording

between reed and wharton and this is between 18th and 19th so right there if the board could see my

Similar wording

cursor. And then the plans, let me attempt to make them as big as possible here for the board.

Similar wording

Are the members of the board able to see this? Okay, wonderful. So what we are talking about,

Similar wording

and I do apologize that it may not be as evident on the plans as it will be from pictures, but

Similar wording

what we are talking about here is this five-foot setback right here. This is the portion of the

Similar wording

property that was an addition built at some point, and it is non-conforming, as would require a seven

Similar wording

foot rear yard setback. Now, on top of that first floor, which is only five feet from the property

Similar wording

line we do have a small about two or three foot deck and we do have our architect justin myers

Similar wording

here on the line we'll be able to answer any kind of technical questions but what we're looking at

Similar wording

here again is a first floor that goes beyond the the allowance or the requirement of seven feet

Similar wording

that only extends five feet of rear yard and then above that first floor in just a two-story

Similar wording

structure basically off of like the back bedroom if if the board can envision that is a small um

Similar wording

not roof deck but a small just balcony but since it is it's not a free hanging balcony

Similar wording

since it is on top of the first floor it's considered a deck

Similar wording

and i'll obviously be happy to go back to those plans and and allow um mr myers to answer any

Similar wording

technical questions but here's our application for appeal this condition was obviously not created

Similar wording

by the by the applicant and is just seeking to legalize the existing use so as she can continue

Similar wording

with this project, renovate a home that was, for all intents and purposes, abandoned in the middle

Similar wording

of a construction project by previous ownership, and fix it up in order to utilize it for housing

Similar wording

in the neighborhood. We met with the RCO, as stated by Chair Bergman, on October 28th. It was, I will

Similar wording

say, a decently attended meeting where we did receive unanimous support. Here's our letter from

Similar wording

that RCO. And as I want to just point out, some of the comments were that the property will be

Similar wording

renovated and uniform with the characteristics of the neighborhood. So nearby neighbors and people

Similar wording

familiar with the neighborhood certainly know that this is something that is existent in the

Similar wording

neighborhood and especially on that block. Here is a list of properties that have been granted

Similar wording

the same type of variance. And you'll see that they're all on that immediate block. Some of them

Similar wording

are part of a development of three identical houses located from 1308 to 1310, 12 South Dorrance. So

Similar wording

they're three houses that were built at the same time. They're identical properties,

Similar wording

and they also have the same five-foot rear yard.

Similar wording

And as Mr. Bergman stated, our 14 letters of support, including two of four on the immediate

Similar wording

block. What I'd like to point out just for the Board's consideration is that all of the letters

Similar wording

of support are from an immediate one square block radius, either on Reed Street, on Wharton Street,

Similar wording

And then you can see here's the stop work order. As I stated, work was ceased immediately upon receiving the stop work order. Here's our pictures of our zoning posters in the window there at the property. A little better view of those posters.

Similar wording

And then you can see here's the stop work order.

Similar wording

And then certificates of mailing. We sent out mailing to 166 nearby neighbors and four affected RCOs as well as the council person's office.

Similar wording

And then, again, for the sake of clarity and the pictures that weren't originally included, so this is the subject property here.

Similar wording

You can see that the neighboring property has a nearly identical rear yard that's also not in conformity.

Similar wording

And then if the board can see it here, this kind of shaded area right there that I'm trying to cursor, that is the second floor deck.

Similar wording

So it's about a two-foot, maybe like a Juliet balcony, if that's familiar to the board, where somebody can just step out from their bedroom, open the slider windows, and have some fresh air.

Similar wording

And then you will see that the characteristics of the block, here are two properties here that have identical kind of second floor decks, as well as rear yards that are certainly not seven feet.

Similar wording

Here are the properties, which I had previously mentioned, the 1308 to 1312 properties, which also have even less of a setback from the rear yard.

Similar wording

And then once again, you can see these are the three properties I mentioned as being built at the same time.

Similar wording

Also with roof decks.

Similar wording

Also with they don't have the second floor balcony.

Similar wording

that our refusal is subject to, but they do have the five-foot yards, if not less than five-foot

Similar wording

yards. And then, so this is a view from that second floor out over the balcony, which we're

Similar wording

discussing. You can see it's a slider door. The only thing missing from this picture as a result

Similar wording

of the stop work order being issued is the railing that will hopefully, with the board's approval of

Similar wording

this variance inevitably go on this balcony. This is a view down from the roof. And you can see that

Similar wording

there's still ample space for a backyard. There is a alley, a trash alley of sorts or another type

Similar wording

of opening. So there is a separation between the subject property and the property immediately

Similar wording

to its back abutting it to its back okay so here here is what we're talking about this

Similar wording

structure here is the non-conformity of five feet this if the board can imagine will have a railing

Similar wording

it's hard to do this on the diagonal but right

Similar wording

in that area and we hope to use it as the second floor balcony

Similar wording

And you can see that the structure directly adjacent to it also is further into the rear

Similar wording

yard than the subject property.

Similar wording

At this time, if I may bring Ms. Dana Dugan on to adopt my testimony and just add a little

Similar wording

context to her, how she acquired ownership and her involvement in the neighborhood,

Similar wording

please Dana Dugan has been allowed to speak Dugan could you please state your name and spell for the

Similar wording

court stenographer yes my name is Dana Dugan first name uh d-a-n-a last name Dugan d-u-g-g-a-n

Similar wording

you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

Similar wording

Yes, sir.

Similar wording

Please proceed, counsel.

Similar wording

Thank you, Chair.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Ms. Dugan.

Similar wording

Is it correct to say that you're the sole member of Bull Real Estate Ventures LLC?

Similar wording

Yes, sir.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And have you heard my testimony or presentation to the board today?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

And would you adopt my testimony as your own?

Similar wording

Yes, sir.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Could you just give the board a little context on, you live in the neighborhood as well,

Similar wording

correct?

Similar wording

Yes, I live about three blocks from this property, same zip code, 19146.

Similar wording

Okay, and at the time of purchasing this property, you weren't aware of any kind of nonconformities existing or any kind of zoning issues?

Similar wording

Correct, sir. I was not aware prior to purchasing.

Similar wording

And as soon as you received the stop work order, you ceased all construction work there and undertook this zoning appeal?

Similar wording

Yes, sir.

Similar wording

could you give the board just some context on on the kind of work that was required at the property

Similar wording

Could you give the board just some context on the kind of work that was required at the property and the state of the property at the time that you purchased it?

Similar wording

and

Similar wording

Yes, sir.

Similar wording

So, yes, there was a lot of work required and work that still needs to be done.

Similar wording

We purchased it.

Similar wording

I purchased it in a shell condition.

Similar wording

I replaced, I put a new roof there, put a new roof, fixed the damaged framing on the inside, and then put new windows as well.

Similar wording

okay and that and that's as far as you got before you you receive the stop work order

Similar wording

yes sir okay um i know for the questions if it pleases the board i'd be happy to bring on

Similar wording

mr myers to to answer any technical questions about the plans the board wants it so so you

Similar wording

have two zoning refusals right rear yard depth right and the other one the deck is encroaching

Similar wording

into the yard over the yard that's correct as well yes questions from the board

Similar wording

and these we had what was the support from the rco

Similar wording

it was it was a letter of unanimous support okay thank you

Similar wording

questions or comments from our attorney hillary emerson not at this time mr chair

Similar wording

questions or comments from the virtual audience

Similar wording

I see no hints at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Planning Commission?

Similar wording

Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission.

Similar wording

The comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning at this location from the existing residential single-family RSA 5.

Similar wording

The proposal is seeking legalization of a roof tag fully within the building's footprint.

Similar wording

The rear yard setback is an existing condition of the building.

Similar wording

The Planning Commission recommends that the Board grant the proposed variance for rear yard setback.

Similar wording

MI 2024-005-840-1314 Darn Street, I vote yes.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Eowyn, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Thank you, Council.

Similar wording

Thank you, Members of the Board. Have a good evening.

Similar wording

Number 15, MI 2024-005-846-2101 South Lambert Street.

Similar wording

Rachel Pritzker is the attorney.

Similar wording

Letter of unanimous support from the Point Breeze Community Development Coalition.

Similar wording

Alpican also provided eight form letters of support.

Similar wording

Good afternoon.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, counsel.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes, Rachel, R-A-C-H-A-E-L, Pritzker, P-R-I-T-Z-K-E-R.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Do you identify your client and the relationship to the property?

Similar wording

Yes, my client is Clarissa Caponera. She is the tenant of the property.

Similar wording

And our vice chair has a few questions.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, counsel. Do you agree to read another refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits as needed to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Thank you, counsel. Please proceed.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Okay. Can you see my screen?

Similar wording

We can.

Similar wording

Okay. This is the refusal for 2101 South Lambert.

Similar wording

The property is zoned CMX2, and as you can see, this is a referral, not a refusal, so

Similar wording

we are seeking a special exception.

Similar wording

This is for the change of use to public services, body art services, a tattoo shop on the first

Similar wording

floor, no changes to anything else that is previously approved in this building.

Similar wording

This property is zoned CMX2, so body art services is only permitted via special exception

Similar wording

in CMX2. This was our appeal. I'm just going to quickly on Atlas show the board the site.

Similar wording

If you can see, it's a corner property. It has a vacant commercial space. It has had other uses

Similar wording

for commercial in its past, so it is not out of character, and we will be just putting a low-impact

Similar wording

tattoo shop at the corner. It's also worth noting that uniquely the tenant, who's my client,

Similar wording

actually also lives on this block. So she is an integrated member of the neighborhood and

Similar wording

the community here. She lives here as well. So she'll be able to have the tattoo shop right on

Similar wording

the same street in which she lives. This was the lease, as again, she's the tenant of the property.

Similar wording

This is an aerial view just showing the zoning maps.

Similar wording

this is an aerial view just showing the zoning maps most of the

Similar wording

Most of the area is RM1, although they're small lots.

Similar wording

And this is on the corner of Lambert Street and Snyder Avenue,

Similar wording

this CMX2 property here at the corner.

Similar wording

Another aerial view, more aerial views.

Similar wording

And this is just the zoning posters on the property.

Similar wording

As you can see, the ground floor vacant commercial space,

Similar wording

which is where we're looking to put the tattoo shop.

Similar wording

Just a better front view, another view with the zoning posters down the street.

Similar wording

Same thing on this end. This is just where in the code we're required to have a special exception.

Similar wording

As you can see under personal services, body art service requires a special exception.

Similar wording

we met with the community um on monday the 28th um and as mentioned we got a letter of support we

Similar wording

met with um point breeze community development coalition i believe let me just double check

Similar wording

on my notices. Sorry, it's been a long day.

Similar wording

Community Development Coalition?

Similar wording

Yes, I believe so.

Similar wording

We have the mailers that we sent, certified mail,

Similar wording

and then we have our letter of non-opposition.

Similar wording

We had 15 votes total, 9 yes, 0 no.

Similar wording

3 out of the 15 were from near neighbors.

Similar wording

and they kind of provided details about people voting in the same house, et cetera.

Similar wording

But again, we had five yeses, 15 total votes, five yeses, zero noes.

Similar wording

This is just how they do the breakdown.

Similar wording

And we also, the client also did some door knocking to make sure that she informed her

Similar wording

near neighbors about the property, and she submitted letters of support that she got

Similar wording

signed from near neighbors as well.

Similar wording

This one is blank on the address, so we'll ignore that one.

Similar wording

This just shows the history of the property that has had other commercial uses on the ground floor, just so it has had a long standing history of ground floor commercial.

Similar wording

We did put together just some loose floor plans.

Similar wording

We wanted to make sure that we met with the community, kind of show them an idea of the breakdown of the space.

Similar wording

So this is provided to the board as well.

Similar wording

and just some interior photos.

Similar wording

It's a pretty small but nice space.

Similar wording

So it won't require a whole ton of construction, things like that.

Similar wording

Just also wanted to provide the client's CV.

Similar wording

She's been tattooing for many years at this point.

Similar wording

She's going to be having her own spot, which is very exciting for a small business.

Similar wording

And just wanted to show the board some examples of her tattoos and her art as well.

Similar wording

That concludes my presentation.

Similar wording

Again, we're just asking for a special exception for Tattoo Shop Body Art Services.

Similar wording

And if we can bring on Clarissa, if she's still on, to adopt my testimony.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Clarissa Caponera.

Similar wording

That's C-L-A-R-I-S-S-A-C-A-P-O-N-E-R-A.

Similar wording

we're referring to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

Similar wording

i do please proceed counsel larissa have you heard my testimony today in front of the board

Similar wording

do you believe it to be true and accurate and do you adopt it as your own yes thank you also

Similar wording

chairman i believe someone might be here from councilman johnson's office um as they didn't

Similar wording

submit a letter questions or comments from the virtual uh from the board questions

Similar wording

Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?

Similar wording

Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

Yes, Chair. I have a hand up.

Similar wording

Yes, sir. I have a hand up by the name of Chris Lynn. They have been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes, good afternoon, Chairman. My name is Christopher Lynn, C-H-R-I-S-T-O-P-H-E-R, last name Lynn, L-I-N.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed, sir.

Similar wording

Sure. Thank you. I'm an attorney from Council President Johnson's office, and we're just here to state our support for the project. Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you very much for taking the time to call us. We appreciate it.

Similar wording

Chairman, sorry to interrupt. I just want to make note, and maybe this is more for Ms. Emerson. The referral says public services, body art services. It's personal services, body art services. I just want to make sure that won't cause an issue.

Similar wording

yes i did i did notice that in the in the description it says public services

Similar wording

in the where it describes the referral it does say personal services so um yeah so when you get

Similar wording

the permit just make sure it has personal services instead of public services on it so yes thank you

Similar wording

thank you mr lynn by the way um is there anyone else in the virtual audience

Similar wording

No, Chair. I see no more hints at this time.

Similar wording

Planning Commission.

Similar wording

I am your Board with the Planning Commission.

Similar wording

The comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning at this location

Similar wording

from the existing commercial residential mixed-use CMX2.

Similar wording

The appellant has shown that the proposed use would not cause detrimental impacts

Similar wording

beyond what would normally be expected.

Similar wording

The City Planning Commission recommends that the Board grant their proposed

Similar wording

special exemption for personal services, body art service.

Similar wording

Thank you. MI 2024-005-846-2101 South Lambert Street, I vote yes.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Iowan, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Ms. Merrill Shaheed, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Thank you, counsel.

Similar wording

So, number 16, MI 2024, 005-849-4800 Bingham Street.

Similar wording

Nixon Canet is the attorney.

Similar wording

Unanimous support from the 42nd Ward, RCO.

Similar wording

Vote was seven in support.

Similar wording

Zero opposed.

Similar wording

Hillary, did we get the photos that we needed?

Similar wording

um not to my knowledge mr chair so we do need to see proof of posting before we can proceed

Similar wording

we would need i'd like to see the interior photos right that too okay let's nixon cannot please

Similar wording

yes um mr chair good afternoon good evening good evening to you could you please state your name

Similar wording

and spell for the court stenographer.

Similar wording

Yes, my name is Nixon, N-I-X-O-N,

Similar wording

Connor, K-A-N-N-A-H.

Similar wording

I'm here for the property owner,

Similar wording

Nader Jabbar, 4,800,

Similar wording

Branham Street.

Similar wording

All right, do you swear or affirm

Similar wording

to tell the truth, the whole truth,

Similar wording

and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

So, counsel,

Similar wording

we needed interior photos,

Similar wording

and we also needed proof of posting.

Similar wording

And we need to see both of those.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Can I share my screen?

Similar wording

You can.

Similar wording

see the green button on the bottom

Similar wording

yep here you come you're coming up

Similar wording

and do you also have interior photos of the property

Similar wording

I believe, Mr. Nader, yes, I should have some, if it was not in the package, let's see.

Similar wording

You

Similar wording

Mr. Chair, I don't believe it's interior photos of the, were included in my package.

Similar wording

I think you're asking for

Similar wording

three dwelling units

Similar wording

we would

Similar wording

we would absolutely I think have to see the inside of the property

Similar wording

Hillary do you agree?

Similar wording

That is your call

Similar wording

Mr. Chair I believe there's one photo

Similar wording

looking into the property but other than that

Similar wording

there were no interior photos in the packet

Similar wording

and they were requested.

Similar wording

Counselor, what I think we're going to do

Similar wording

is we're going to continue this.

Similar wording

I'm sorry, but we'd like to leave

Similar wording

the inside of the property, okay?

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And the question would be is to the next time,

Similar wording

just, I think somebody contacted looking for this.

Similar wording

Just check with the office.

Similar wording

They'll make sure you have everything in place

Similar wording

and we'll get it going, okay?

Similar wording

Okay, I believe they contacted my client directly

Similar wording

because I don't remember.

Similar wording

Okay, all right.

Similar wording

So then make sure make sure your client knows that he should talk to you and that you definitely because have I received it, I would have I would have gotten I would have been on it.

Similar wording

OK, thank you very much.

Similar wording

We'll we'll we'll try to get you back in as quick as we can.

Similar wording

Thank you, sir.

Similar wording

Take care.

Similar wording

Is there anyone in the first audience whose case has not been called?

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, too.

Similar wording

So we're going to take a five minute break and we'll come back and we have a short list.

Similar wording

OK, thanks, everybody.

Similar wording

Thanks. Thank you, Chair.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, everyone.

Similar wording

My name is Bill Bergman and I will be chairing

Similar wording

the hearings this afternoon.

Similar wording

With me is our Vice-Chair, Ismail Shahid.

Similar wording

Present, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Our Board Member, Cheryl L. Gaston.

Similar wording

Present, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Our Board Member, Kenetta Graham.

Similar wording

Present, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Board Member, Michael Johns.

Similar wording

Present, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

And our board member, Taya Nguyen.

Similar wording

Also present is our attorney, Hillary Emerson, and our Executive Director of Zoning, Ian Haggerty.

Similar wording

Here's our virtual format.

Similar wording

The proceedings are being recorded.

Similar wording

With your participation, you agree to be recorded.

Similar wording

Video will be available by contacting ZBA Executive Director at phila.gov.

Similar wording

For a court stenographer, we ask attorneys and witnesses to identify themselves before testifying.

Similar wording

If you're participating by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute.

Similar wording

To enter an appearance statement, call 267-270-5548.

Similar wording

Leave your email address and the address of the property in question.

Similar wording

And finally, the question answer box on the screen is not for testimony.

Similar wording

All questions should be directed to zbaexecutivedirector at phil.gov.

Similar wording

Let's look at our schedule for this afternoon.

Similar wording

Number five.

Similar wording

Number five, MI 2024-002-932-5625 Thomas Avenue.

Similar wording

Sheen Oliver is the listed applicant.

Similar wording

There's a request from the council person's office for a continuance in this matter.

Similar wording

is the appellant in the audience, Siany Oliver.

Similar wording

I see no one by that name, Chair.

Similar wording

Okay, we're going to, well, okay.

Similar wording

So MI 2024-002-932-5625 Thomas Avenue.

Similar wording

We're going to continue this.

Similar wording

This case must be heard.

Similar wording

And then number one, number one, MI 2023, 002-415-1941 East Tioga Street.

Similar wording

No exhibits, they're listing.

Similar wording

Is Mr. Clinton in the audience?

Similar wording

Yes, sir. Henry Clinton has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Mr. Clinton.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Mr. Clinton.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Could you just state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Sure. Henry Clinton, H-E-N-R-Y, Clinton, C-L-I-N-T-O-N.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Mr. Clinton, could you give us an update on this case, please?

Similar wording

Yes. The client has tried to go to neighbors to get some written support for the project.

Similar wording

He hasn't been successful, so I realize it's a third listing.

Similar wording

I'm going to ask if we could have one more continuance, and if we can't produce the signatures, that the case will be dismissed.

Similar wording

Thank you very much.

Similar wording

So MI 2023-002-415-1941, East Tioga Street.

Similar wording

Cases continued.

Similar wording

Case as marked must be heard.

Similar wording

Thank you, Mr. Clinton, for calling us.

Similar wording

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Number four

Similar wording

MI 2024

Similar wording

001

Similar wording

689

Similar wording

7505 to 07

Similar wording

Brookhaven Road

Similar wording

B'nai Israel

Similar wording

Is the

Similar wording

Is the applicant

Similar wording

No exhibit second listing

Similar wording

No one appeared the first time

Similar wording

I see no one in the audience

Similar wording

So this is the second listing.

Similar wording

No one appeared the first time.

Similar wording

So MI 2024-001-689-7505-07, Brookhaven Road.

Similar wording

I vote to dismiss.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, I vote to dismiss.

Similar wording

Gerald Gaston, my vote is to dismiss.

Similar wording

Tanetta Graham, my vote is to dismiss.

Similar wording

Iowan, my vote is to dismiss.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is to dismiss.

Similar wording

Number six, MI 2024, 004-848, 301 East West Moreland Street.

Similar wording

Ibi Gray Alizabal is the owner, listed applicant, no exhibits, first listing.

Similar wording

I see no one in the audience with that name, Chair.

Similar wording

Okay, thank you. So MI 2024-004-848-301-East Westmoreland Street. Cases continue and mark must be heard.

Similar wording

We're going to go to our first case. Double check here.

Similar wording

okay so oh and one more number two MI 2024 001 675 616 North 2nd Street this case has been

Similar wording

withdrawn number three MI 2024 001 676 1918 East Washington Avenue Devin Upta is the attorney

Similar wording

In unanimous support from the 50th Ward Executive Committee, nine votes in support.

Similar wording

Mr. Chairman, if possible, could you go to the next case and come back to me?

Similar wording

I ran out to move my car in the rain, so I just need five minutes.

Similar wording

Sure, I'll go to the next case and we'll get you at the end.

Similar wording

We only have a few cases.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Okay. It's number seven. MI-2204-004-857-2112 East Somerset Street. Henry Clinton is the attorney.

Similar wording

There's a recommendation of unanimous support from the Somerset Neighbors for Better Living and letter of non-opposition from Council Member Squill.

Similar wording

good afternoon mr clinton good evening rather mr clinton you've already been sworn

Similar wording

um could you just for the record identify yourself sure henry clinton h-n-r-y clinton c-l-i-n-t-o-n

Similar wording

did you identify your client the relationship to the property sure my client is valjeta v-a-l-j-e-t-a

Similar wording

Fonda. F as in Frank

Similar wording

O-N-D-A. She is the

Similar wording

owner of the property. And our

Similar wording

Vice Chair has just a few questions for you,

Similar wording

sir. Good afternoon, Counsel. Do you agree

Similar wording

to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate

Similar wording

to attack receipt? I do.

Similar wording

Have you emailed in all the required

Similar wording

documents and exhibits needed to proceed

Similar wording

with this case five days in advance of this

Similar wording

hearing? I have.

Similar wording

Thank you, Counsel. Please proceed and share your screen.

Similar wording

Thank you, Mr. Sheehy.

Similar wording

Is that visible, Mr. Chairman?

Similar wording

Is that visible, Mr. Chairman?

Similar wording

It is.

Similar wording

It is.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Again, good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.

Similar wording

I'm Henry Clinton on behalf of Valgetta Fonda.

Similar wording

This concerns a property at 2112 East Somerset Street.

Similar wording

We're asking for a variance to construct a two-family dwelling in a two-story house on a long vacant lot,

Similar wording

which is adjacent to another long vacant lot on a block that has several vacant lots.

Similar wording

um and there are other two family dwellings on the block as i walk through my presentation

Similar wording

i'll explain everything that i just said

Similar wording

the refusal is for use we don't have any uses with height open space rear yard uh it's simply one of

Similar wording

use that this is an rsa5 zoning district and a two-family dwelling is not prohibited in this zoning

Similar wording

district. We do have an RCO letter of support, as the chairman mentioned at the outset. And I just

Similar wording

think it was a tacit acknowledgement that this lot and maybe several others on the block are

Similar wording

going to sit if single family homes are proposed, because there's about 30 homes on the block,

Similar wording

16 are between market value of $130 to $170, the highest priced house on the block. Again,

Similar wording

not to be demeaning. It's just a statement of fact is in about 217,000. So I think that's one

Similar wording

of the reasons why there hasn't been any development on the block in some time.

Similar wording

Here's photographs, an aerial photograph to give you perspective.

Similar wording

Maybe I have to shrink this a little bit.

Similar wording

That's still visible enough, Mr. Chairman?

Similar wording

Yeah, we see.

Similar wording

Yep. So you can see there's we're at 2112, 2110 is vacant. 2114 is a duplex. And there's another duplex on the block that I'll show you at the end. A couple of vacant lots across the street. This is a club of some type. Really, the neighbors really weren't sure what type of club it is. But it is some type of a club. They have a huge parking area in the rear.

Similar wording

This is looking down the block, and here's a club I just pointed out from the aerial view.

Similar wording

Vacant lot on the right, two vacant lots.

Similar wording

This is looking the other perspective.

Similar wording

Property is where I have the black line.

Similar wording

This is an existing two-family dwelling, and I have a zoning record at the end of the presentation.

Similar wording

You can see the two mailboxes on the door.

Similar wording

These are deep lots.

Similar wording

The lots are about 75 feet deep, so it allows for a larger home on the property, which is ample for a two-family dwelling.

Similar wording

Notice of our posting.

Similar wording

Here are the plans.

Similar wording

So to the left, I'll just start on the left-hand side.

Similar wording

This is the site map.

Similar wording

Again, the lot's 75 feet deep.

Similar wording

The house is about 55 feet deep.

Similar wording

What's unique about this particular lot is in the rear.

Similar wording

We actually have a door.

Similar wording

You can see this in the third photograph where my cursor is.

Similar wording

A door leading from the basement up the steps and into the rear yard.

Similar wording

The front will be all brick with an egress well, and then stairs leading up to the first floor.

Similar wording

The back will be a metal siding vertical.

Similar wording

floor plan uh excuse me floor plan now my client the plans show a bedroom in the basement and a

Similar wording

bathroom but she told me that the architect made a mistake she does not want to have a bedroom in

Similar wording

the basement or a bathroom. So it does say preliminary. So if we have a proviso, if the

Similar wording

board looks kindly upon this, we would ask that proviso to reflect no bedroom or bathroom in the

Similar wording

basement. This is a relatively modest proposal in terms of a number of bedrooms. First floor

Similar wording

will have one bedroom, large kitchen, living area, one bathroom. The front door would then

Similar wording

lead you to the second floor where there would be two bedrooms and two baths. There's no rooftop

Similar wording

deck. There's no decks in the rear. Again, trying to fit in with the character of the neighborhood.

Similar wording

Application for appeal, project information form, tax clearance. This requires some explanation. So

Similar wording

if you look at the tax records, the only taxes that my client owes is for 2025 and they're not

Similar wording

yet do. When we tried to print out the tax clearance, this is the first time I've ever

Similar wording

seen this. It said unable to view certificate. So she doesn't know any real estate taxes and

Similar wording

She doesn't know any real estate taxes and no other taxes that we know of, but I don't have a certificate to show the board, only to say at the top, tax clearance check for zoning board passed.

Similar wording

no other taxes that we know of.

Similar wording

You can view the certificate now or review it later in your letters, but for whatever reason, it just would not print out.

Similar wording

Zoning map, again, RSA 5 zoning district.

Similar wording

The deed indicating ownership by Ms. Fonda.

Similar wording

This is a notice we sent out to everyone within 250 feet of the property.

Similar wording

This is our certification that everything was actually mailed, 100 pieces of mail.

Similar wording

All the addresses, Martha Street, Amber Street, Rush Street.

Similar wording

And these are the two family dwellings on the street.

Similar wording

One is 2114, immediately adjacent to our property.

Similar wording

and then 2135, which is across the street.

Similar wording

And again, this is two units

Similar wording

and it's an active rental property.

Similar wording

That is the presentation.

Similar wording

I just like to summarize it

Similar wording

that we have a long vacant lot.

Similar wording

I wasn't as able to establish how long,

Similar wording

but some members of the community

Similar wording

thought it was at least a decade

Similar wording

or perhaps longer.

Similar wording

we have other two family dwellings on the block single family homes in terms of construction

Similar wording

costs would be prohibitive to build my client only has three bedrooms if it were a single

Similar wording

family home it would also have three bedrooms so we're not really bringing more individuals

Similar wording

to the block or more congestion the two family dwelling is necessary for the viable economic

Similar wording

use of the property. It is in harmony with the code as it is residential. It's in harmony with

Similar wording

the community. We're not impacting any light or air or the development of any adjacent property.

Similar wording

In fact, the property to the right is vacant, and perhaps our project will spur on the development

Similar wording

of that particular lot. And with that, I'd ask my client to unmute herself. Ms. Fonda,

Similar wording

can you raise your hand? She may be participating in my telephone.

Similar wording

Valjeta Fonda has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

How could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes, my name is Valjeta Fonda, V-A-L-J-E-T-A, last name Fonda, F-O-N-D-A.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, told truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed, Mr. Clinton.

Similar wording

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Ms. Fonda, were you on this call when I presented your two-story, two-family project to the board?

Similar wording

Yes, I was.

Similar wording

And if you had the opportunity to testify, would you adopt my testimony as your own and as true and correct?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Thank you, Ms. Fonda.

Similar wording

Questions from the board.

Similar wording

Questions from the board.

Similar wording

A question.

Similar wording

You're not, the client doesn't want to do basement living, correct?

Similar wording

Correct.

Similar wording

And so are you still going to have a basement?

Similar wording

Are you still planning to have a basement or no?

Similar wording

Yes, Mr. Johns, there will still be a basement,

Similar wording

but that will just be for recreation or maybe a playroom.

Similar wording

She has it marked here as recreation.

Similar wording

So there's no living in the basement.

Similar wording

Even though there's a door and a walk out into the yard,

Similar wording

I asked her repeatedly, and she advised me,

Similar wording

She doesn't want to have a bedroom or a bathroom in the basement.

Similar wording

Can you tell me how tall the building would be in relation to the other houses that are adjacent to it?

Similar wording

Ms. Graham, it's going to be 29 feet.

Similar wording

And I don't have a rendering of what's next door.

Similar wording

Let me see something here.

Similar wording

I do know at the top of the building, there's a cornice line here, which I think was meant that the brick or turn like a row lock to carry over the cornice line from the adjacent buildings.

Similar wording

Let me pull them up.

Similar wording

So 29 feet, it's well below the 38 feet.

Similar wording

I can only guesstimate the height of the buildings on either side, and I don't want to guesstimate wrong to tell you the truth.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

other questions from the board what's the width of the lot the width of the lot is 18 feet okay

Similar wording

thank you questions or comments from our attorney hillary emerson

Similar wording

at this time mr chair

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

questions or comments from the virtual audience i see no

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Planning Commission.

Similar wording

Good evening, Chair Bergman and board members.

Similar wording

My name is Nina Solomonic, and I'm with the Planning Commission.

Similar wording

Nina, could you spell your name for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes, Nina, N-I-N-A, last name Solomonic, S-O-L-O-M-O-N-I-C.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed.

Similar wording

This property is indicated for residential single-family on the city plan, and our adopted district plan recommended no change to the existed zoning at this location.

Similar wording

There is no unique physical condition of this property that would prevent it from being used in conformance with the zoning code.

Similar wording

Therefore, the Planning Commission recommends that the board deny the requested variance.

Similar wording

number seven what mr clinton if you want me to address that mr chairman i will sure you sure you

Similar wording

can yeah just as i mentioned in the presentation uh this is a large lot 18 by 75 it's been

Similar wording

undeveloped for a minimum of a decade and potentially longer uh the market values of

Similar wording

the properties on the street exceed the cost of construction for a single family home but it makes

Similar wording

more economic sense for a two-family home and there are other existing two-family homes on the

Similar wording

on the block including the one adjacent to our proposal. Thank you. MI 2204-004-857-2112 East

Similar wording

Somerset Street. I vote yes with no basement living. Michael Johns. My vote is yes with

Similar wording

proviso. Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with proviso. Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes, with proviso.

Similar wording

Irwin, my vote is yes, with proviso. Ishmael Shahid, my vote is yes, with proviso. Thank you,

Similar wording

Council. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Number eight, MI 2024-006-660-8301 Tarsdale Avenue,

Similar wording

Darwin Bovee is the attorney.

Similar wording

There's recommendation of unanimous support from the Upper Holmesburg Civic Association.

Similar wording

24 votes in support.

Similar wording

Mr. Chairman, members of the board.

Similar wording

Council, I think I already sworn you at one point today, somewhere along the line.

Similar wording

Yes, she did, and I swore never to lie to this board.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name just for the record?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Darwin Bovee, B-E-A-U-V-A-I-S, attorney for the applicant, the Rockefeller Group.

Similar wording

If I can...

Similar wording

And our vice chair has just a few questions for you, sir.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, counsel.

Similar wording

Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate towards accuracy?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits as needed to proceed with this case

Similar wording

five days in advance of this hearing? Yes, I have. Thank you,

Similar wording

Counselor. Please proceed and you can share your screen. Okay.

Similar wording

Let me try this again.

Similar wording

I'm not the most tech-savvy

Similar wording

person.

Similar wording

I believe it's here.

Similar wording

can you see that we can make it just a little bit bigger okay there

Similar wording

all right Mr. Chairman members of the board right can we also identify for later on Jacqueline

Similar wording

Schwartz and Heath Abramson, they are with the Rockefeller Group, and also Keith Tindall from

Similar wording

Sabre Industries, who will be my very quick witness. Before you is an application on behalf

Similar wording

of the Rockefeller Group, a New York metropolitan area development company, which has entered the

Similar wording

Philadelphia market with a transformative project at 8301 Toursdale Avenue, which is in the

Similar wording

northeast section of philadelphia the project includes the construction of 190 000 plus square

Similar wording

foot warehouse which is permitted as of right and the relocation of an existing wireless facility

Similar wording

a cell phone tower from the center of the lot to now the rear of the lot which is the essence of

Similar wording

to now the rear of the lot which is the essence of this application now by way of background

Similar wording

this application now by way

Similar wording

we did submit uh our exhibits which includes our refusal all the way down to uh aerials

Similar wording

our memorandum of law and photos of the of the property as well as the posting

Similar wording

i would like to bring your attention to exhibit five just start there

Similar wording

this is this is a rendering or a render site plan of our warehouse over and on the right

Similar wording

hand corner is the subject of our application which is the cell phone tower just want to give

Similar wording

you a aerial along here where the cursor is towards dell avenue and in the rear are railroad tracks

Similar wording

directly behind us n95 and if you remember how we how the our lot is configured it's surrounded by

Similar wording

the red line and this is where our cell phone tower is along the right of the screen is the infamous

Similar wording

upper homesburg prison and you don't see it here because this is a rendering but currently our

Similar wording

cell phone tower is somewhere around here so the and and i just want to correct the record it's i

Similar wording

believe the applicant all those rockefeller group it's rg or rg torsdale llc that's the actual

Similar wording

applicant. So just by way of background, the cell phone tower is here. So this is a photo,

Similar wording

the prison sitting on property. So you see that emblem right here. And it is this tower that

Similar wording

we're seeking our variants from. Now we're proposing a new tower, which will be more

Similar wording

modern structure. And the difference between this tower that you see on your screen and the tower

Similar wording

that we're proposing is that it can accommodate a much smaller fall zone radius. Our refusal

Similar wording

basically stands that if your tower is whatever height it is, it's assuming that the tower is

Similar wording

going to fall. It's going to fall and that it needs that entire radius for it to fall.

Similar wording

That was then. This is now. We don't need two hundred and fifty three feet for a fall zone.

Similar wording

And the fact that and couple that with we're taking this tower and we're putting it in the rear of the property.

Similar wording

I think that makes better use and better efficiency for the property overall.

Similar wording

So with that, I just I'm looking for the board to grant our application basically for four reasons.

Similar wording

One, the physical layout of the property. Our unique physical constraints makes compliance infeasible. Like I mentioned before, you can look again. This is a much better location for a cell phone tower as opposed to here in the middle of the lot.

Similar wording

um by by by doing anything else i think this will slow this will make it a more inefficient

Similar wording

site to the point that we cannot cannot develop what we're developing what we already are

Similar wording

permitted for two the next the the next reason why we believe the board should grant our

Similar wording

Variant is that relocating the tower makes sense right here, but also the tower, modern-day technology has the tower collapsing.

Similar wording

And with that, I just want to show this is an elevation of the proposed tower.

Similar wording

And if we can identify Keith Tindall, he is the engineer that can speak to how the tower collapsed.

Similar wording

Keith Tindall has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name spelled for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Can you hear me?

Similar wording

Yes, I can.

Similar wording

Could you please spell your name for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes, my name is Keith Tyndall, J-E-I-T-H.

Similar wording

Keith, I think you have to turn off your…

Similar wording

You've got two devices on, Keith.

Similar wording

Try now, Keith.

Similar wording

Try now, Keith.

Similar wording

I'm still getting my phone back.

Similar wording

Maybe walk away from the computer.

Similar wording

Keith?

Similar wording

How about now?

Similar wording

Better.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Okay, good.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Tell your name, please.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

My name's Keith Tindall.

Similar wording

K-E-I-T-H-A-T-I-N-D-A.

Similar wording

I hear it.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Well, let me just get you.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

We've got to figure out where to get that.

Similar wording

Yeah.

Similar wording

So you have your phone and computer on?

Similar wording

Computer's on.

Similar wording

I think the audio's off now.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Just a second.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

or if i may the mr chairman that i could summarize his testimony for you i want to

Similar wording

you want to do that then please you know we we hired saber technologies right they were the ones

Similar wording

that actually put together this tower elevation to show that the the that the design and if you

Similar wording

can look at my cursor there are points in which the the the tower will have breaking points and

Similar wording

almost and i would say almost like collapsible cups it will fall onto itself so given that if

Similar wording

we're in a hurricane the bottom will not will not give way initially because as the winds will fly

Similar wording

If it gets to a certain point, there will be breakage, but it will collapse onto itself. And that full collapsing only gives us a 50-yard radius. So we are comfortable with this technology.

Similar wording

um they the saber technologies uh uh uh has has done wonderful jobs throughout the country

Similar wording

with this type of uh technology but i think we should be able to um uh rest assured that

Similar wording

that will the product that they're putting together will be the same as they had intended

Similar wording

which is that it will break off and will sit at no more than a 50-foot radius.

Similar wording

So I believe that's what Keith Tindall would have said,

Similar wording

and I think that's something that the board should take into consideration.

Similar wording

Our third issue, which we believe the board will feel comfortable granting this variance, is the community. The community has expressed a strong support for our project, including the proposed relocation of the tower, as well as the overall project.

Similar wording

This support was championed by Councilman Mike Driscoll, who led the efforts to engage all the stakeholders and secure consensus for both the warehouse and the tower of relocation.

Similar wording

We have been meeting with the Councilman for over a year, discussing the overall warehouse and the community impact.

Similar wording

And as such, moving the tower to the rear of the lot aligns with the community preferences and ensures the site's development benefits the neighborhood.

Similar wording

And we thank the councilman for his involvement. And you could see on our exhibit that he did give us a letter of support.

Similar wording

Now, our fourth reason really deals with the fact that we have no negative impact on the surrounding property or the neighborhood.

Similar wording

Our relocation enhances the parcel while maintaining the essential function of a cell phone tower, which provides critical telecommunications infrastructure for business, residents, and emergency services.

Similar wording

We submit that this project reflects a thoughtful approach to balancing industrial development with infrastructure needs and community priorities by enabling the efficient use of the site and granting the variance, we further submit that we satisfy Section 303AE of the zoning code, as well as creating positive economic development in the Northeast.

Similar wording

Now, I want to conclude by saying, again, our physical constraints with the property combined with the advanced safety features of the tower and the overwhelming support for the project.

Similar wording

Now, I want to conclude by saying, again,

Similar wording

I think it's pretty compelling that giving us relief will not have a negative impact and will actually be a positive thing for the community.

Similar wording

If I may, can I call on Jacqueline Schwartz?

Similar wording

If she could be identified.

Similar wording

Yep.

Similar wording

Jacqueline Schwartz has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Jacqueline Schwartz, J-A-C-Q-U-E-L-I-N-E.

Similar wording

Last name Schwartz, S-C-H-U-S-C-H-E.

Similar wording

Can you do that one more time? Break it off a little bit. Do it one more time.

Similar wording

Sure. J-A-C-Q-U-E-L-I-N-E-S-C-H-W-A-R-T-Z.

Similar wording

I affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed, counsel.

Similar wording

Thank you. Jacqueline, can you state your position in terms of the Rockefeller Group?

Similar wording

Sure. I'm an associate on the development team for Rockefeller Group.

Similar wording

Applicant name for this project is R.G. Toursdale, LLC.

Similar wording

Okay. And you heard everything I said today, and would you adopt that as your own testimony?

Similar wording

Yes. I just wanted to clarify, I think a couple of things were lost in translation with some of the technical difficulties.

Similar wording

So the tower that we are proposing is designed to withstand high velocity winds, a less than 1% chance of those wind events actually happening in this area. They have not happened to date. And the tower is designed to have a 50-foot fall zone.

Similar wording

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, that concludes my presentation.

Similar wording

Questions? Thank you.

Similar wording

Questions from the board.

Similar wording

Yeah, I have a question.

Similar wording

Can we go back to the site plan?

Similar wording

Can you tell me what the, what's the other one?

Similar wording

What's the other one?

Similar wording

What's that one?

Similar wording

Yeah, the one, the color.

Similar wording

Yeah.

Similar wording

can you tell me what the the circle is around the uh in the triangle this is 250 feet

Similar wording

that's 253 feet okay and then the triangle

Similar wording

what's what's that and then the smaller circle is that the 50 foot that is the 50 foot okay

Similar wording

and then the triangle is what we were just showing um uh actually i believe it was just showing

Similar wording

uh i believe it's a hundred foot radius that's all okay so it was just showing

Similar wording

what we look like in comparison gotcha and so that inner circle is the 50 foot

Similar wording

Yeah. Yes. And just for the board, I just want you to realize we are this area and maybe the photos can show.

Similar wording

So I think this is, this was a combination junkyard and repair mechanic haven.

Similar wording

So walking through the sites, and when we did this with the councilmen, as well as, and I think some of the neighbors, neighborhood leadership, it was an environmental mess.

Similar wording

And this was the lot that was for sale.

Similar wording

But even along here, it's also, I'm not going to say junkyard, but it's also an auto mechanic haven.

Similar wording

i will say that as well so again we feel comfortable that this is the right decision

Similar wording

the community feels comfortable that this is the right condition we've um here

Similar wording

here are photos entering the site with the original cell phone tower

Similar wording

Entering the site with the original cell phone tower, just pull back a little photos before we, we started demolition.

Similar wording

These are some of the structures that used to be on the site.

Similar wording

This is near the railroad tracks.

Similar wording

this is near the rear and now what

Similar wording

and all of this has been demolished so far this is torsdale avenue

Similar wording

this is some of the stuff we found inside

Similar wording

Mind you, these structures aren't there.

Similar wording

This is us clearing the site.

Similar wording

And these are just photos of our posting.

Similar wording

And that is it.

Similar wording

Unless there's any other questions, I can bring it back up.

Similar wording

Other questions from the board?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

It says here that it's a freestanding tower and building or tower-mounted antennas.

Similar wording

Which is it?

Similar wording

Well, it's both because it's creating the structure,

Similar wording

And then it's creating, adding antennas on the structure.

Similar wording

But it says freestanding tower and building or tower mounted antennas.

Similar wording

So I understand you're building the tower.

Similar wording

So these will be tower mounted antennas, not building.

Similar wording

There won't be towers on the building.

Similar wording

Or are you planning to do both?

Similar wording

No, I, this is, let me get back to, and I'm just getting this from the summary, you know.

Similar wording

yeah so is that

Similar wording

here's the tower there are structures here that we're going to have to support the tower

Similar wording

all right there's there's a 10 10 foot 10 foot 5 inches by 20 foot shelter

Similar wording

this is the pad okay so the i it's it technology is wonderful and and what we're proposing is this

Similar wording

tower that will have a lot of support on there because the goal is to not only support t-mobile

Similar wording

or AT&T, but also

Similar wording

emergency services

Similar wording

as well. Yeah, you're going to

Similar wording

co-locate. Yes.

Similar wording

The antennas. But they

Similar wording

won't be on the building. They will

Similar wording

be on this tower. Correct.

Similar wording

Okay. All right.

Similar wording

Thank you. Darwin,

Similar wording

just a real quick question. And I

Similar wording

understand about if it

Similar wording

collapses and all that. What about the

Similar wording

antennas? Are they windproof?

Similar wording

I mean, how do they secure

Similar wording

the antennas on top of the towers?

Similar wording

That's a good question. And if Keith is still available, he might be the best person to answer that.

Similar wording

Is Keith still around?

Similar wording

Yes. Keith Tindall has been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Keith.

Similar wording

keith can you hear me yes there he is

Similar wording

he's already been sworn did you hear the question

Similar wording

we can't hear you keith

Similar wording

so so while he's and he can corroborate this okay hold on now oh there he is yeah go ahead

Similar wording

I'm going to hang up my phone. Can you hear me now?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Yeah, go ahead.

Similar wording

Keith, the question was asked about the antennas being mounted onto the tower.

Similar wording

Keith, the question was asked about the antennas.

Similar wording

Okay. Can you hear me?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

All right. Yeah, the antennas, we have antenna mounts that we provide with the tower.

Similar wording

So they stand the antennas off maybe three feet, depending on which mount it is.

Similar wording

And then the antennas themselves get you bolted to pipes that are part of those mounts.

Similar wording

So it's all structural steel up there that's supporting everything, and we've designed it all for way more than what's required at this site.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Any other questions from the board?

Similar wording

I have a quick question.

Similar wording

Does the collapsible nature of this tower allow for, like, future growth?

Similar wording

Like, what if you need to include more antennas or whatever?

Similar wording

Does the collapsible nature limit that, or is it a flexible-type tower?

Similar wording

No, it doesn't limit it, actually.

Similar wording

Yeah, the tower is designed for three carriers with all of their future loading, you know, not just what they're putting on there initially.

Similar wording

So it's designed for more square footage than what they'll put on initially.

Similar wording

And so even with all those three carriers and 114 mile an hour wind, you know, the tower is designed to support all of that.

Similar wording

So the wind would have to exceed 114 miles an hour for that for that collapsible mechanism to kick in.

Similar wording

With all those with all those future carrier loadings on.

Similar wording

Thank you. Sure.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson.

Similar wording

I just wanted to clarify one point. It looks like on the refusal, what they did is there's a use category called wireless service facility. So they put that on there and they listed both of the subcategories, which is freestanding towers and building or tower mounted antennas.

Similar wording

It sounds like both are applicable in this case.

Similar wording

So that's why they listed both of the specific use types within the use category.

Similar wording

So I think that's what happened with the refusal and why it's written a little bit.

Similar wording

It seems a little bit confusing.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Planning Commission.

Similar wording

Planning?

Similar wording

Oh, sorry.

Similar wording

I thought I was unmuted.

Similar wording

No, that's fine.

Similar wording

That's fine.

Similar wording

Good evening.

Similar wording

My name is Nina Salmonic, and I'm with the Planning Commission.

Similar wording

This proposal completed its civic design review in October 2023.

Similar wording

The Civic Design Review Committee's advisory recommendations are not an expression of the City Planning Commission's recommendation or opinion regarding zoning variances, special exceptions, or other discretionary approvals associated with this proposal.

Similar wording

The comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning at this location from existing medium industrial I-2.

Similar wording

The appellant has demonstrated that the proposed relocation of the cell tower location will not cause detrimental impacts beyond what would be reasonably expected.

Similar wording

The Planning Commission recommends the board grant the requested variance for the removal and relocation of a cell tower structure.

Similar wording

Thank you. MI 2024.

Similar wording

Sorry, this is Hillary. Just a point of clarification for Nina.

Similar wording

you said this particular application went through cdr or was there another part of the project that

Similar wording

went through cdr because i didn't think a cell phone tower in and of itself would go through cdr

Similar wording

uh that's correct the building portion and the site went through cdr okay so that was a separate

Similar wording

application yes okay all right thank you i was with you i understand

Similar wording

MI 2024-006-660-8301-Torrisdale Avenue, I vote yes.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Tana Graham, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Iowyn, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Dari, thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Members of the board, happy holidays.

Similar wording

Okay, same to you.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

So number three, MI 2024-001-676-1918 East Washington Lane.

Similar wording

Devin Obduck is the attorney.

Similar wording

Letter of unanimous support from the 50th Ward Democratic Executive Committee.

Similar wording

Letter of unanimous support from the 50th Ward Democratic Executive Committee.

Similar wording

Counsel?

Similar wording

Thank you there, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Your vote has been sworn, Counsel. Could you just state your name for the record, please?

Similar wording

Yes, Devin Uqda, D-E-V-I-N Uqda, U-Q-D-A-H.

Similar wording

Counsel, could you identify your client, the relationship to the property?

Similar wording

Yes, I have one of the owners on the call, Mr. Ronald Bridges.

Similar wording

Okay, our vice chair has a few questions for you.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Good evening, counsel. Do you agree to weigh the reason of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Have you e-mailed in all the required documents and exhibits that is needed to proceed with this case 5 days in advance of this hearing?

Similar wording

Yes. Well, I uploaded some after getting feedback, what I was missing, but I can re-upload anything that's missing.

Similar wording

I believe we received everything, but please share your screen and proceed.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

can you see my screen it should be coming up any minute i see it's yet i see it now

Similar wording

weird

Similar wording

all right it's not scrolling down i share my screen every share one second i apologize

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

coming up now all right that's better okay uh so the address of this property is 1918

Similar wording

east washington lane philadelphia pa 19138 um it's a table of contents of all the information

Similar wording

i present in my presentation it's been uploaded to the website um so here we have a letter of

Similar wording

referral. The proposed use is eating and drinking establishment. It's going to be a takeout

Similar wording

restaurant. Requires exception approval for zoning board adjustments.

Similar wording

So here we just have some pictures of the surrounding area. So this property is on

Similar wording

Washington Lane between Thoron and Lodkin Pike. The entire block, as you will see,

Similar wording

is pretty much all commercial.

Similar wording

There's like, the property used to be a hair salon.

Similar wording

I think next to it is a salon, ice cream shops

Similar wording

and restaurants and delis

Similar wording

and across the streets like dollar stores

Similar wording

and doctor's offices.

Similar wording

So again, it's Washington Lane

Similar wording

between Thoron and Lampkin Pike.

Similar wording

As you can see, the property is currently CMX2.

Similar wording

All of the properties on the block

Similar wording

actually are also CMX2 as well.

Similar wording

So, this is the property right here.

Similar wording

This is 1918 East Washington Lane.

Similar wording

To the right of it, as I mentioned, is the ice cream shop.

Similar wording

I'm sorry. Yes, to the right of it is ice cream shop.

Similar wording

To the left of it is a breakfast restaurant.

Similar wording

Again, all of the other properties on the block are CMX2.

Similar wording

Most of them have some type of residential living on the second floor.

Similar wording

This is the back of the property.

Similar wording

This is a picture of the posting on a property.

Similar wording

Here are some internal pictures of the property.

Similar wording

So probably even cleaned out.

Similar wording

It's going to be a full rehab.

Similar wording

So this is just a picture of it cleaned out.

Similar wording

Pretty much got it.

Similar wording

The picture of the inside of the property.

Similar wording

Now the picture is lost.

Similar wording

This is the first floor.

Similar wording

So the picture of me,

Similar wording

the picture of me showing the posting would be on

Similar wording

the other side of these windows.

Similar wording

this is the first floor and then these steps over here to the left will go down to the basement

Similar wording

the steps here would also go up to the second floor

Similar wording

so standing in front of property across the street there is a

Similar wording

large parking lot a dollar store dialysis a daycare and a doctor's office

Similar wording

a daycare and a doctor's office

Similar wording

um so now just getting into the drawings um so the property now

Similar wording

is still maintaining the same height um it's two two levels it's by level um

Similar wording

there'll be a takeout restaurant on the first floor

Similar wording

um the second floor it would have will be residential um

Similar wording

so it's the first the first floor to see some expansion on the windows

Similar wording

uh two doors one to go upstairs one to go into like the restaurant area into the basement

Similar wording

is multiple pictures outside

Similar wording

so here we have what we're looking at the inside so this this would be the basement

Similar wording

um the basement would have storage toilet room hvac hookup um some prep area and then the first

Similar wording

floor this would be the door you walk into the first door down here this part is like a takeout

Similar wording

restaurant section so you would order pay for stuff here uh proposed kitchen freezer food prep

Similar wording

all on the first floor this would be the second floor so the second floor would be

Similar wording

uh a kitchen a living area it's uh set up it will be set up to have two bedrooms and uh two bathrooms

Similar wording

Again, more and more reference to the drawings.

Similar wording

This is the first floor,

Similar wording

like the first floor of the restaurant area.

Similar wording

So this would be the counters.

Similar wording

If you were coming in from the front,

Similar wording

this is the counter and then this back here would be the back part of

Similar wording

the restaurant where you propose food prep and storage.

Similar wording

Some notice to the RCO.

Similar wording

Proof of mailing.

Similar wording

We also did mailing and we also just knocked on all the neighbors on

Similar wording

the block that then just also notified them and dropped off the mailing list as well.

Similar wording

It's a deed to the property.

Similar wording

This is clear to show that there's no real estate taxes owed on a property.

Similar wording

Then this is the letter of support from the RCO.

Similar wording

10 people in attendance we all had all the vote in support of it

Similar wording

and that concludes my presentation um i have the one of the owners on a call

Similar wording

possible could i have him uh could i recognize him uh ronald bridges

Similar wording

bridges has been allowed to speak

Similar wording

good evening sir could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

Similar wording

ronald bridges r-o-n-a-l-d b-r-i-d-g-e-s you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth

Similar wording

nothing but the truth i affirm please proceed counsel uh mr bridges were you able to hear my

Similar wording

presentation yes sir um do you verify that it was true and accurate yes sir and um do you adopt my

Similar wording

statements yes sir um questions from the board yes i have one quick question i'm sorry um that the

Similar wording

is there a bathroom for the restaurant was that that the bathroom that was in the basement no so

Similar wording

that bathroom would be for staff right but is it one on the first floor as well yes one on the basement

Similar wording

On the first floor as well.

Similar wording

Okay, thank you.

Similar wording

There are no bathrooms shown on your plane.

Similar wording

On the first floor.

Similar wording

By mistake, there's not a bathroom because it's only takeout.

Similar wording

So they would just come in and not go past the counter.

Similar wording

So it's just a basement bathroom for the staff.

Similar wording

Okay, thank you.

Similar wording

That's what I thought I saw.

Similar wording

okay so uh what kind of food are we going to be serving here and is it the type that might

Similar wording

require some sort of venting so they are going to be installed in that hvac um system and the

Similar wording

property is which is here here on the left um i'm not sure if they've established the the menu for

Similar wording

the restaurant, I think that that may be open to the tenant who occupies the property.

Similar wording

Okay. But if it's, okay, depending on what kind of food you may be, if this is like

Similar wording

food that's going to require any kind of venting, have you, is there anything about that on these

Similar wording

plans um no so we don't have any vents here on this

Similar wording

um no so we don't have any vents here on this um if the if they do decide to do that i guess we

Similar wording

would have to pull the permits to do something like that well the the the your plan shows a

Similar wording

number of fixtures that will require venting yes or a fryer a grill a griller yeah and another

Similar wording

piece of equipment we require

Similar wording

planting and so

Similar wording

Can you hear me? This is

Similar wording

Ronald Bridges speaking

Similar wording

Go ahead Mr. Bridges. There is a hood

Similar wording

system in the plans

Similar wording

Okay yeah because you're required

Similar wording

to have an ANSOL system and a hood system

Similar wording

Yes sir we will have an ANSOL system

Similar wording

it's in the plans

Similar wording

I think what

Similar wording

Member

Similar wording

Assurel was

Similar wording

kind of alluding to is if you're

Similar wording

you've got you've got to have these have you have these fixtures that need to be vented

Similar wording

what's the plan to vent and my request is that it be vented through the roof and not out the side

Similar wording

that's what i would prefer as well um but i'm not seeing that on these plants and that's where

Similar wording

my concern is. Thank you.

Similar wording

Mr. Purchase,

Similar wording

can you answer that?

Similar wording

Yes, the hood is venting over all

Similar wording

of the cooking equipment.

Similar wording

The hood will be venting through the roof on the left-hand

Similar wording

side.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Where is this on this

Similar wording

plane here?

Similar wording

It's hard for me to

Similar wording

see.

Similar wording

But it will be

Similar wording

it's a little small i'm trying to

Similar wording

can you go to the elevation page sheet

Similar wording

okay so you shut the venting out the roof yep all right okay thank you

Similar wording

okay any other questions questions or comments from our attorney hillary oh i'm sorry i'm sorry

Similar wording

although you do show a secondary event it looks up here to be at the first at the first floor level

Similar wording

correct

Similar wording

so I think

Similar wording

maybe

Similar wording

that's an issue

Similar wording

particularly since you've got

Similar wording

a window if you look at this

Similar wording

elevation you've got a window that's

Similar wording

right here

Similar wording

right behind where that

Similar wording

vent is coming through the roof

Similar wording

so

Similar wording

the desire

Similar wording

would have that vent

Similar wording

above the second floor

Similar wording

roof

Similar wording

in my opinion

Similar wording

because you're going to have exhaust fumes

Similar wording

and if somebody opens the window there

Similar wording

it's going to blow right in their window.

Similar wording

Better if it's through the roof.

Similar wording

Correct.

Similar wording

Or above the roof, right?

Similar wording

Yeah, or above the roof, yes.

Similar wording

Somebody's putting in the exhaust fan

Similar wording

from another side of the building.

Similar wording

That's the intake fan

Similar wording

on a lower level.

Similar wording

okay so that's an intake i can't read on the elevation it's it's it's two fans the other

Similar wording

fan will be it's a different one fan is on a roof on a left hand side and you got you can't see that

Similar wording

i can't expand this i got it i mean if it was zoomed in i think we'd be able to read i think

Similar wording

we're all familiar with the system we just can't read the notes at the scale right

Similar wording

sorry i'm trying to just zoom in a little bit oh i see it says new intake fan okay so that's an

Similar wording

intake fan and then the exhaust uh fan roof is above the roof okay good all right okay okay all

Similar wording

right thank you yeah questions or comments from our attorney hillary emerson um just a quick note

Similar wording

uh mr i don't believe the interior photos that you showed were sent to the board at least i

Similar wording

I couldn't find a record of them, so please upload those by the end of the day tomorrow

Similar wording

so that they can be included in the record for this case.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Yes, ma'am.

Similar wording

No problem.

Similar wording

I think my only question is about egress from the basement.

Similar wording

Is there egress well in the basement or door access?

Similar wording

Yes, there's a door access in front of the building.

Similar wording

To the basement?

Similar wording

Yes, like a building.

Similar wording

And from the first floor, there's access to the basement.

Similar wording

No, I understand inside.

Similar wording

Oh, I'm talking about on the exterior.

Similar wording

Yeah, it's like right here.

Similar wording

I'm trying to see. They're so tiny. Oh, okay. That's the rear. All right.

Similar wording

I'm trying to see.

Similar wording

They're so tiny.

Similar wording

Oh, okay, that's the rear.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

You know, go.

Similar wording

You know, bill code doors, you open the thing up and...

Similar wording

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just couldn't. I can't see it.

Similar wording

Yeah, she can't see the bill code door. That's all.

Similar wording

Bigger planning.

Similar wording

I'll choose your comments from the virtual audience.

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Planning Commission.

Similar wording

Good evening again. My name is Nina Salamonik, and I am with the Planning Commission.

Similar wording

The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing CMX-2 commercial mixed-use zoning.

Similar wording

The proposed takeout restaurant use will not cause detrimental impacts to the neighborhood beyond what might normally be expected.

Similar wording

Therefore, the Planning Commission recommends that the Board grant the requested special exception.

Similar wording

MI 2024-001-676-1918, East Washington Lane, I vote yes.

Similar wording

Michael Johns, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Carol Gaston, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Tanada Graham, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Ayewin, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes.

Similar wording

Thank you, counsel.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

You can, sure.

Similar wording

Is there anyone in the virtual audience whose case has not been called?

Similar wording

I see no means at the time, Sharon.

Similar wording

Thanks, everyone.

Similar wording

Let's go home, relax, sit.

Similar wording

sit back and thanks to everybody by the way good night oh well thank you chair

Similar wording

thank you thank you to planning thank you have a good evening good night

Similar wording