COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, October 29, 2007, 10:25 a.m. - - - RES. 070882 - Authorizing Council's Committee on Legislative Oversight to hold public hearings to investigate the Administration's failure to enter into contracts necessary to expand the Basic Systems Repair Program in the 7th Councilmatic District. RES. 070890 - Authorizing Council's Committee on Legislative Oversight to hold public hearings to investigate the Administration's failure to enter into contracts necessary to expand the Basic Systems Repair Program in the 4th Councilmatic District. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: James F. Kenney, Chair Carol Ann Campbell W. Wilson Goode Daniel J. Savage Marian B. Tasco - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Specialists 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 INDEX WITNESS Deborah McColloch, First Deputy, OHCD.... Eva Gladstein, Director, NTI............. 14 5 Anthony MacIntosh, Exec. V.P., PHDC...... 36 Michael Koontz, Exec. Director, RDA...... 116 Citizens: Darnell Helen, 4th Ward, 1st District.... 164 Diane Archer, 5901 Christian Street...... 166 Josephine Simmons 5520 Cambridge......... 171 Debra Archie, 7164 North 20th Street..... 173 Janice Strium, 624 North Frazier Street 177 Delores Afanador, 6131 W. Columbia Ave. 185 Jacqueline Carthon, 5300 W. Berks Street 190 Beatrice Chapell, 49 N. Hobart Street 194 Shirley Morrison, 3228 N. Etting Street 195 Elsa Calland, 129 North Edgewood Street 196 Ann Marie Salters, 7443 N. 20th Street 199 Pearl Riley, 5846 Race Street............ 201 Linda Williams, 2721 N. 45th Street...... 204 3 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Good morning. The Committee on Legislative Oversight is now in session to hear testimony on Resolution No. 070882, which is a resolution authorizing Council's Committee on Legislative Oversight to hold public hearings to investigate the Administration's failure to enter into contracts necessary to expand the Basic Systems Repair Program in the 7th Councilmatic District, as authorized by Resolution No. 070595 (adopted June 14, 2007) and in the 9th Councilmatic District, as authorized by Resolution 070588 (adopted June 14, 2007.) And A companion resolution is Resolution No. 07089, which authorizes Council's Committee on Legislative Oversight to hold public hearings to investigate the Administration's failure to enter into contracts necessary to expand the Basic Systems Repair Program in the 4th Councilmatic 4 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 District, as authorized by Resolution 3 No. 070405 (adopted June 14, 2007) and in the 9th Councilmatic District, as authorized by Resolution No. 070744 (adopted September 20, 2007.) I'd like to ask the representatives of the Administration to just come up as a group, 'cause I know Councilwoman Campbell is on her way, and Councilwoman Tasco has questions of her own relative to her district. So do you have written testimony? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
You do. Well -- MS. McCOLLOCH: Mr. Chairman, I believe it was --
I'm sorry. Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah, we do have it. I'm sorry. Do you have it? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes. 5 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 (Witness comes forward.)
Would you identify yourself for the record and proceed. MS. McCOLLOCH: My name is Deborah McColloch. Good morning, Councilman Kenney and members of City Council.
Good morning. MS. McCOLLOCH: I am Deborah McColloch, First Deputy at the Office of Housing and Community Development, and I'm here today to offer testimony on Resolution No. 070882 and Resolution 17 070890. These resolutions suggest a failure on the part of Office of Housing and Community Development, OHCD, to place funds for the Basic Systems Repair Program (BSRP) under contract, thus delaying program implementation. I'm here today to explain why this is not the case. 6 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 The contract status of the fund had no impact on the implementation of the Basic Systems Repair Program. OHCD is the City agency which applies for and receives federal funds -- Community Development Block Grant Funds, HOME Funds, and others, from HUD to implement a range of community-development programs to provide assistance to low- and moderate-income residents of the City of Philadelphia. The funding application is the document that is presented to City Council each spring for review and approval, known as the Consolidated Plan. It is important to understand the funding cycle for the Consolidated Plan. Each year, in January or February, the City is informed of its funding allocation for the federal fiscal year. The allocation is based 7 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 upon the budget passed by Congress and a complicated formula related to population, poverty, and the number of substandard housing units in the City. After receiving the funding allocation, OHCD prepares a document called the Preliminary Consolidated Plan outlining how the City intends to spend the funds. A public hearing is held to invite citizen comments. After the hearing, OHCD modifies the Preliminary Consolidated Plan and Proposed Consolidated Plan, which is submitted to City Council. The Proposed Consolidated Plan is usually submitted to City Council in April. City Council then schedules its own public hearing on the Proposed Consolidated Plan during which it takes testimony from the Administration and citizens. Traditionally, this hearing has occurred during the last week of May. City Council approves the 8 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Proposed Consolidated Plan by ordinance, which is usually passed at the last session of Council in June. OHCD then finalizes the Consolidated Plan and submits it to HUD in July. By regulation, HUD has 45 days to review and approve the Consolidated Plan, and the City is usually awarded the federal funds in August or early September. The following chart details this process for the last six years; and in my written testimony, the chart is outlined, which shows the approval dates by HUD for the last six years, which vary from the earliest date, which was August 13th, and the latest date was this year, October 5th. Thus, although the funding cycle is based upon the fiscal year, and contracts are dated to coincide with the fiscal year, as a practical matter, the funding cycle runs from September to September. During the first quarter of 9 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 the new fiscal year, the balance of funds from the previous fiscal year is being spent. There's no break in service or delay based upon the award of federal funds. This year, HUD did not approve the Consolidated Plan until October 5th. As a result, OHCD could not execute the contract with the Philadelphia Housing Development Corporation (PHDC), which carries out the Basic Systems Repair Program until after that date. The NTI funds for BSRP are included in that contract. However, the delay in executing the contract had no impact on the implementation of the Basic Systems Repair Program in the 4th, 7th, or 9th districts. The contract funding is not needed until the end of the process, when the subcontractors are paid for their work. Throughout the summer, OHCD and PHDC staff worked with Councilwoman 10 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES.
070882, 890 Campbell and members of her staff to create a BSRP for the 4th District. The first meeting I attended was August 1st, at which time we discussed such topics as the income guidelines, outreach procedures, and contracting. The plan was to include the 4th District BSRP activity in the Fiscal Year '08 contract between OHCD and PHDC. At that time, I expected to receive HUD approval by the end of August and execute the contract early in September. Since we were still working out the details of the program, that schedule seemed reasonable, because PHDC and the Councilwoman's office could move forward with marketing the program, and by the time any funds were needed, the contract would be in place. There were some additional meetings in August. OHCD prepared marketing flier, and the program was announced by Councilwoman Campbell on 11 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 August 29th. OHCD placed ads for the program in local papers -- the Neighborhood Leader, the Philadelphia Tribune, and the West side weekly -- on September 21st. The 4th District office began forwarding applications to PHDC the week of September 12th. All of this activity moved forward without an executed contract between OHCD and PHDC, and a contract was not necessary. Throughout September, the 4th District Office continued to forward applications to PHDC, which reviewed them, scheduled orientations, requested and reviewed client documentation, and scheduled inspections. There are many steps before a case is actually referred to a contractor for construction, which is the point at which funds must be available. Some of these steps require the timely submission of documentation by the client as well as availability 12 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 for inspections. No case was delayed because of the lack of an executed contract between OHCD and PHDC. The program services contract, which includes the 4th, 7th, and 9th District BSRP, was executed on October 18th. As of October 26th, approximately 450 referrals have been scheduled for orientation. Of these, 169 applications have been completed. Of these 169, 8 are not eligible, 106 need additional documentation, and 34 have been approved. PHDC is moving forward with the implementation of the program. In the 7th and 9th Districts, applications are being taken from the existing waiting list of approved cases, so it was not necessary to conduct special outreach and marketing. OHCD and PHDC staff met with members of the District Council staffs over the summer to finalize the program 13 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 in each district. As of October 26th, in the 7th District, cases have been 4 completed, 54 cases are under 5 construction, and 85 cases are awaiting assignment to the subcontractors. As of October 26th, in the 9th District, 7 cases have been completed, cases are under construction, and 95 10 cases are awaiting assignment to the 11 subcontractors. OHCD and PHDC staff acted in good faith to implement the 4th District BSRP and in the 7th and 9th Districts as well. I hope that this information is helpful in understanding the contracting process and status of the program. I'm happy to answer any questions you have.
Thank you. Since Ms. Gladstein's testimony is relatively short, I would ask her to please give that, and then we can have 14 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 questions from the panel. Thank you.
Thank you. Good morning. My name is Eva Gladstein, Director of Neighborhood Transformation for the City of Philadelphia. And thank you, Councilman Kenney, as chair of this committee, and other Councilmembers for the opportunity to provide testimony. I'd like to take this opportunity to explain the collaborative relationship that the NTI, the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative, enjoys with the Office of Housing and Community Development and how NTI bond proceeds are made available to fund programs such as the Basic Systems Repair Program. NTI prepares a proposed Program Statement and Budget for each fiscal year in which it intends to spend NTI bond proceeds. This Program Statement and Budget is approved by 15 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 City Council by resolution. The Fiscal Year '08 Program Statement and Budget for the period of July 1, 2008, through June 30, 2009, was approved by City Council on June 14, 2007. Consistent with Resolution 9 070405, 070595, and 070588, the approved Fiscal Year '08 Program Statement and Budget included an increase of 3.3 million to the BSRP beyond the 27,475,000 that was contained in the proposed budget. Implementation of the program can begin based upon the budget authorization and does not require the drawdown of NTI proceeds at that time. However, for your information, I will describe that process. In virtually all cases, the Mayor's Office of NTI is not the implementor of the funded programs. In order to access NTI bond proceeds, each City department that is responsible for 16 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 implementing a program funded by this source prepares an NTI bond drawdown request and submits it to NTI. Upon review by the appropriate officials, NTI forwards the signed form to the Redevelopment Authority, which then submits a request to the trustee to release the funds. The City's Fiscal Year '08 operating budget provides authority to OHCD to carry out the BSRP as well as a number of other programs funded by NTI. In the case of BSRP, OHCD submitted an NTI bond drawdown request to our office, and it was reviewed, the appropriate signatures attached, and returned to the Redevelopment Authority on October 3, 2007. This activity was carried out in a manner consistent with NTI processes and was not delayed in any way by any of the participants. I hope that this information is helpful in understanding the issues before you today. I'll be happy to 17 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 answer any questions for you.
Thank you very much for your testimony. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Campbell.
Yes. Ms. Gladstein, once City Council had approved the NTI Program Statement and Budget, were there funds to available July 1, 2007?
I'm not sure how to answer yes or no; let me do my best. Yes, there was budget authority. The cash was not necessarily at the City department.
Once the NTI Program Statement and Budget were approved by City Council on June 14th, could any of the implementing 18 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 departments prepare and submit an NTI bond drawdown request to your office for review in approval in advance of July 1, 2007.
I'm not sure. I didn't hear the last part of your question.
Once the NTI Program Statement and Budget was approved by City Council on June 14, 2007, could any of the implementing departments prepare and submit an NTI bond drawdown requesting your office for review and approval in advance of July 1, 2007?
Any of the implementing entities could prepare an NTI bond drawdown after July, which is the beginning of the fiscal year.
That is a yes answer? 19 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Okay. So your testimony is that if an implementing department wanted or needed funds effective July 1, 2007, that process could have been completed by the end of June, and the funds could have been available by July 1, 2007; is that correct?
Let me correct my first statement, that we would not have signed off on any bond drawdown prior to July 1st because our Program Statement and Budget begins July 1st, so no activity could have taken place between June 14th until July 1st.
If you could please provide members of the committee with a copy of the NTI bond drawdown request you referred to in your statement -- your testimony.
Yes. (Requested documents provided to committee members by Ms. Gladstein.) 20 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
It's very pale. Could you read it to me, please? I can't see it.
I'm sorry. Do you want me to read the entire form for you?
Okay. The title is "City of Philadelphia Request for NTI Bond Proceeds." Date of request: September 13, 2007. On the right-hand side, OHCD, 32, submitted by Office of Housing and Community Development. Amount of request: $3.3 million. It lists the vendor name as Philadelphia Housing Development Corporation. A description: The first line is the 4th District. The second line is the 7th District. The third line is the 9th District BSRP. NTI budget line: In all 21 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 cases, that says: Fiscal Year 2008, Council BSRP. In the 4th District, the amount listed is 1.3 million; for the 7th District, 1 million; and for the 9th District, 1 million; the total being 3.3 million. And the department certification says the following: The intergovernmental cooperation agreement entered into as of May 9, 2002, between the RDA and the City of Philadelphia (known as The Cooperation Agreement) provides a mechanism for the disbursement of program funds, fiscal responsibilities, and recordkeeping consistent with the requirements of Section 7 of Ordinance 20 Bill No. 020036 (known as The Ordinance) -- and that's the NTI authorizing ordinance. The undersigned hereby certifies the following: I have reviewed and approved the supporting 22 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 documentation for the requisition and the information contained in the requisition as true and accurate. The obligations contained in this requisition have been and will be properly incurred and are a proper charge against the program fund. The amount requested is, or will become, due and is unpaid and does not exceed the maximum allocations for each category of costs set forth in the Annual Program Statement and Budget, as approved in accordance with Section 7 of the ordinance. The proceeds of the requisition will not be used in any way other than for payment of eligible costs of the program. I have accurate records and accounts, including contracts, bills and invoices, and other documents, correspondence, and other evidence explaining the services or materials supplied and pertaining to the costs 23 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 and expenses reflecting all matters and activities covered by this requisition. I'll maintain and make such records available for inspection upon request for audit and examination; will maintain such records for a period of five years from the date of final audit, except in those cases where there are unresolved audit questions, in which event records shall be maintained until all pending matters are resolved. The first signature line is from the Office of Housing and Community Development contract administration. And then there are approvals signed first by the Office of Housing and Community Development, the First Deputy Deborah McColloch on September 13th, and then my signature, Eva Gladstein, from the Mayor's Office of Neighborhood Transformation on October 3rd.
Excuse me. 24 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Whose signature is the first one? MS. McCOLLOCH: That's laura Taylor, who is the contract administrator at OHCD.
Good morning, good morning. MS. McCOLLOCH: Good morning.
Included in your testimony, in your testimony you presented this morning, you acknowledge that the Basic Systems Repair Program for Fiscal Year '08 was increased by $3.3 million in the budget authorization that was approved on June 14th. The purpose of this increase was to shift NTI funds which were 25 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 allocated for demolition in the 4th, 7th, and 9th Council Districts for Basic Systems Repair, true?
Actually, in the 4th District, funds were shifted from several other categories. But yes, the net impact was to increase the Basic Systems Repair Program.
According to your testimony, the implementation of the Basic Systems Repair Program can begin based upon the budget authorization and does not require the drawdown of NTI bond proceeds?
Yes. It's -- this has occurred in previous years for other programs in that the program operations are not necessarily -- the NTI funds are used for the actual physical work or improvements on the property, and the agency has other funds available which enable it to do the program and administrative work.
Okay. 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Considering your statement, the implementation of the BSRP could have occurred in the July and did not need to wait until your office approved OHCD's NTI bond drawdown request?
I'm assuming that the other program elements were available or ready, which I have no 10 knowledge -- I don't know. But I'm saying, in terms of a cash situation, my understanding is that the use of these funds was -- would be to pay for the actual contracted service, and that there is significant other work that occurs previous to that.
Do -- and I guess I should ask Mr. MacIntosh this, and I will. How does the process work? We passed the budget in June and the resolution, and we expected this process to begin July 1, if not sooner, so we understand the budget process is July 1. Could PHDC have applied 27 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 directly for the NTI funds, or they had to go through OHCD for the drawdown?
Because the budget authority rests with OHCD, they would have had to go through OHCD.
So you had to wait to get the request for the drawdown from OHCD.
All right. Ms. McColloch, in your -- in October the 19th edition of the Inquirer, Kevin Hanna was quoted as saying that "the implementation of the Basic Systems Repair Program has been delayed because HUD was two months late in authorizing the funds needed for the program." Could -- did he -- let me see. Could the Community Development Block Grant Funds portion of BSRP or the 3.3 increase based on NTI funds, was he talking about that? MS. McCOLLOCH: He -- 28 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
What was he talking about? MS. McCOLLOCH: He was saying that the -- that the contract between OHCD and PHDC was delayed in its execution because we did not have the Community Development Block Grant Funds that are a part of that contract. That contract includes several different sources of funding -- CDBG, NTI, and so forth, HOME, and several different kinds. So we couldn't execute that contract until we had approval from HUD for the funds because the contract couldn't be certified 'cause we didn't have the money from HUD.
My understanding is that there are two portions of this program in terms of 29 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 funding; one is CDBG in terms of program administration, and the other is NTI funds? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
And the NTI funds could be made available at any point after July 1st? MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm sorry?
The NTI funds could be made available at any point after July 1st? MS. McCOLLOCH: They could have been -- they had to be placed under contract. But yes, they could have been.
And so you were waiting on the CDBG portion? MS. McCOLLOCH: We were waiting for the CDBG portion.
Which is program administration? MS. McCOLLOCH: Both program administration and also a source of program dollars, both. 30 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
For this particular 3.3 million that we're talking about, my understanding is that the program source is NTI funds? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yeah. For this 3.3, the only source is NTI funds for this particular budget.
So in order to implement this $3.3 million program, you're awaiting on CDBG funds? MS. McCOLLOCH: We were waiting to execute the contract; we did not delay implementation of the programs.
But the CDBG funds under this $3.3 million program were only for program administration? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
And so the people were working anyway, weren't they? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
So that didn't make any sense. MS. McCOLLOCH: There was no 31 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 delay in the program.
But that doesn't make any sense. There's no way you can wait for CDBG funds for program administration if everyone's going to work every day and being paid every day, waiting for the contract anyway. MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm sorry. I'm not sure what -- other than to say what I've said already, which was: There was no delay in implementing the program.
Okay. At what point -- you said you had to wait to go into contract. MS. McCOLLOCH: We had to wait to sign the contract, but signing the contract did not have an impact upon the implementation of the program. We were working throughout the summer, implementing the program.
Actually, Councilwoman Tasco is asking you to clarify Kevin Hanna's comments that you had to wait to go into contract and 32 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 whether they were true or not. MS. McCOLLOCH: It is true that we had to wait to go under contract.
You had to wait to go under contract for what? MS. McCOLLOCH: We had to wait to execute the contract until we had the funding approval from HUD.
For what purpose? MS. McCOLLOCH: To sign the contract. We couldn't sign the contract --
That has nothing to do with the implementation of the program. MS. McCOLLOCH: I agree.
Okay. MS. McCOLLOCH: There was no in the implementation of the program.
My question is: You didn't ask for the 33 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 drawdown until October, so why couldn't you have asked for the drawdown in July? Because you already -- you say in your statement that during the first quarter of the new fiscal year, the balance of funds from the previous fiscal year is being spent. There is no break in service of delay based upon the award of federal funds. So if they were already working, as Councilman Goode says, and they're over there, you don't need approval of HUD to expend the NTI dollars; why couldn't you have amended the existing contract to provide the funds from NTI so that we could have started in July and asked for the drawdown, as opposed to October? MS. McCOLLOCH: We could have amended an existing contract.
And so why did you -- MS. McCOLLOCH: But there was no -- I take you back to my testimony, 34 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 which shows that between -- since the beginning of July, in the 9th District, cases have been completed, cases 5 are under construction, and 95 cases are 6 awaiting assignment to the 7 subcontractors. 8 That was spending the money 9 that was under contract, so there was 10 no delay in the program. We were 11 simply, as you requested, taking people from the waiting list and moving them through the system.
But that was already from money that was already allocated to the Basic Systems Repair Program; it wasn't NTI dollars because you didn't ask for the drawdown until October. So you were spending money that was already set aside for the Basic Systems Repair Program in my district. Were those -- were those -- could we get Mr. MacIntosh up here? MS. McCOLLOCH: Sure. (Witness comes forward.) 35 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Just in general too, I'm curious as to whether or not there are any other districts -- any other Council Districts that have experienced any delays, or is this isolated -- or are the perceived delays isolated to three districts? MS. McCOLLOCH: Well, I would suggest -- the program is -- and Tony can speak to this more than I. The process of the program is not in -- is not a speedy one, and so I think people perceive that the program takes time between the time of application to the time of completion, but that is the process of the program. But I would say that as far as I know, no other people have -- no 20 other Council Districts --
So you've gotten no other district complaints from any other District Council people? MS. McCOLLOCH: No. 25
Okay, thank 36 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 you. Councilwoman Tasco?
That's probably because I'm not sure that any other District Council people requested NTI dollars; I'm not sure about that. This refers to the NTI dollars that we approved and were available July 1. Mr. MacIntosh, would you explain to me how the seven cases in the 9th District were completed. Had they started prior to July 11 with existing dollars? MR. MacINTOSH: First let me introduce myself. My name is Anthony MacIntosh, and I'm the Executive Vice President of Philadelphia Housing Development Corporation. With respect to your specific question, Councilwoman, the seven jobs that were completed were in our system, and we used available dollars at that time.
So no NTI 37 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 dollars have been expended for the 9th Councilmatic District yet? MR. MacINTOSH: Not during this past fiscal year.
All right. So the $1.1 million is still there for 9th Councilmatic District of NTI funds. MR. MacINTOSH: That's my understanding.
'Cause you only got the approval in October? MR. MacINTOSH: That's my understanding. Yes, that's right.
So that's what we were referring to, Ms. McColloch, that these seven were not a part of the NTI dollars. We were talking about the NTI process. MS. McCOLLOCH: Right.
And I guess what kind of raised our hair was the fact that we were led to believe through Mr. Hanna's statement and other comments that we had to wait till HUD 38 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 approved these funds, which they had no 3 jurisdiction over, and we do know that you have the ability to amend an existing contract to get something done. MS. McCOLLOCH: These cases that were completed were completed with other funds, and they will be charged back now that the contract is in place. They will be charged to the NTI funds to then --
Well, why they be charged to the NTI funds when these people were on the list for the last umpteen years? And so they should -- if he had them in the pipeline, as you say, the process is so slow, they were probably -- they were probably in the pipeline to get done probably before we even talked about expending these monies. So the monies that we have approved for July can, you know, were for the new -- for the people who were on the list, not the people who were 39 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 getting services through the existing dollars. You're not going to take NTI dollars and charge me for stuff that was already on the list and people were on the waiting list. I didn't get a new list; all I did was group my people in the 9th Councilmatic District, but some of those people were already on the list; is that true, Mr. MacIntosh? MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct, Councilwoman.
All right. Could you give me the documentation on these seven and when they were began? 'Cause I don't want their -- that expenditure, which was already in the pipeline for the Basic Systems Repair Program that came off the list in whatever way you all take them off the list and you give them the -- you provide the money for them to do the work. You're not going to back and take the money out of the million dollars, 40 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 'cause this is additional money, 'cause they were already on the list. And what we were saying with the $1 million in the 9th is that we're going to move these people up that you haven't begun to process at all in the 9th Councilmatic District. So there will be no reimbursement. MS. McCOLLOCH: Okay.
Can I just ask a question for information sake? Hypothetically, or theoretically, if you had drawn down the million dollars in July from NTI, would more people have gotten serviced faster and come off the waiting list? If you had the extra million dollars in your hands in July or August, would more people have the opportunity to have sped up this process and gotten service as opposed to the situation we have now? MR. MacINTOSH: It would help us expedite the delivery of the service, 41 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 yes.
So I guess the anger from the District Councilpeople is why wouldn't you draw down the money. If it's sitting in a pot over there and you can use it, why would you wait until October to draw it?
And Councilman Goode has a follow-up and then Councilman Savage. But I'm interested in hearing what the mindset was as to waiting till October to draw down the million when it was available in July and we could have done more people and served more folks.
Ms. McColloch, before you answer the question, the follow-up is: How much 42 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 money is usually actually expended on an annual basis? Can you gie me some sense of the last couple fiscal years. MS. McCOLLOCH: Of how much has spent on the BSRP Program?
Actually expended. MS. McCOLLOCH: Right. It's approximately 12 to 14 million, but what was allocated -- this is -- allocation last year -- was 13 -- a little over 13 million. It is spent -- as I've described, the way it's actually spent is September to September rather than July to June 30th. So last year's budget is fully expended but it's not all fully expended between July 1st and June 30th. But last year's budget was 43 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 million. 3
Actually 4 expended, how much was actually expended 5 last year? 6 MS. McCOLLOCH: I don't have 7 that number at this hearing, but I can 8 provide it to you. 9
I said at 10 the beginning of the question that I 11 don't care how much was allocated; I 12 want to know how much expended. 13 MS. McCOLLOCH: Right. And what I'm saying is, the full budget is always expended, but I couldn't tell you of that 13 million the exact number between July 1 and June 30th.
For previous years, can you give me any indication of how much is usually spent, that actually goes out in terms program dollars on the Basic Systems Repair Program? MS. McCOLLOCH: It's about 12 million. Essentially, what's allocated is what's spent. 44 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
And all those program dollars are also administrative dollars. MS. McCOLLOCH: These are program dollars.
I'm sorry. I didn't know if I got an answer to the question that I asked, which was: Could we have served more people in a more timely fashion if we had drawn down the million? MS. McCOLLOCH: I -- well, I believe that we were moving the program forward at the regular rate that we were moving it forward --
Which is slow. MS. McCOLLOCH: Which is slow, agreed. I mean, admittedly, and that's no disrespect to anyone doing it; that's just the time it takes to do the program. 45 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 And that to add the funds to a contract to amend a contract, it takes about six weeks to amend a contract, and so I expected to have the new contract in place. And because we were moving forward with the implementation of the program without a contract, I expected to put the new money in the new contract. But all of that is a long answer to a short question, which is: It would have been possible to amend an old contract to put the money in.
Okay. And the answer to my question is: Yes, more people would have gotten served in a more timely fashion, according to the Mr. MacIntosh. MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct, Councilman.
I want to follow up on the chair and what he was 46 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 speaking about. Mr. MacIntosh, you said it would expedite the process as far as if the contract was signed on July 1st? MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct.
Why is it so slow? I mean, would they have received the benefits? You say it would expedite the process, but would they have received the actual benefit of the BSRP before today? And why is that taking so slow? I don't understand that. MR. MacINTOSH: With respect to the program in and of itself, all right, the monies that are allocated to PHDC are divided among the various contractors in an effort to try and hope that it provides 12 months worth of work for the particular contractor. The contractors try to traditionally spread the work out over the 12-month period because they realize that they're not going to get 47 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 another contract for another months. One of the most difficult things with respect to this program is deploying and redeploying staff. And from a contractor's perspective, they try and hold on to their crews, so that's their rationale for sort of spreading out the work over the 12-month period, because once they lose their crews, it's difficult in some cases to get them back -- if they ever get them back. And so, that's one of the rationales for taking the allocation, spreading it out over the 12-month period, and delivering service in that particular manner. With respect to delays, this program is, if I may say, is grossly underfunded. The demands on the program for services far exceeds the financial resources available that we have to address the needs of the homeowners throughout the City of 48 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Philadelphia. And as a result of that and recognizing that this is a grant program, it's not a loan program, the demand is tremendous for the scarce dollars that we have available. That adds tremendously to the delay because if we're getting a hundred phone calls a day but we're only able to service ten people a day, that is only compounded when we're working over 260-plus days a year. So it's a difficult situation, and we do what we can to try and manage it. We were at -- PHDC was looking -- we were rather excited about getting the opportunity to undertake the Basic Systems Repair Program in a targeted fashion and working with the District Council offices because what in essence they would allow us to do was be to treat that many more people throughout the City while assisting the 49 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Councilpeople in delivering service to their constituency. So that's a long answer to a short question.
I don't believe you answered the question. The question was: Would not more people have been served if this money had been made available earlier? MR. MacINTOSH: And I would say yes, Councilwoman.
One more question. As far as Councilwoman Tasco and so we're talking the 9th District, and the 7th District, we transferred -- it was a simple process in my eyes. We transferred $1 million into the BSRP to facilitate the process. And the back 50 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 list, from what I looked at, it went before 2003, because that's when the redistricting was for Council, and I had some of Councilman Clarke's on my list. And so, Mr. MacIntosh, when you speak of, you know, being delayed for the applicants coming in every day, I mean, we're looking at 2003 and 2007, that's five years ago. I mean, I don't get that. MR. MacINTOSH: Well, it depends. The waiting list is going to vary; it's going to vary depending on the type of services that are being requested. One of the things that you may see is, with respect to heaters, all right, at PHDC during the winter months, the heating need list is relatively a short list. It's something that we address and we address in an emergency fashion. With respect to some of the 51 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 other areas, again, the program is first come, first served, and it's a program whereby our ability delivers depending on the funds being made available to assist. And constantly, year after year, we have more people requesting services for the program that we cannot serve with the available financial resources we have available.
Just one also informational request. Are there any other districts that receive NTI funds for their BSRP programs?
There's NTI funds that probably, for the last five or six years, have been made available for the overall BSRP Program, so let me restate that. This was the first time that it was done on a district-by-district 52 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 basis, but in addition to the 3.3 million that was approved and then subsequent funds approved by Councilwoman Campbell for the 4th District, there was an allocation of NTI funds, bond proceeds of, I think, $27 million-plus over the course of NTI.
But there's no other document like this, which would delineate a specific district in an amount?
Correct. The other documents would have been for the general programs and would have just said "BSRP"; it would not have a district number next to it.
Can you -- why was it done that way here? Because the money was added in after originally being approved?
My understanding was that the Councilpersons were asking for more of a 53 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 targeted program rather than the funds being spread citywide, for those funds that they had allocated being used for constituents of their districts.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. McColloch, your written testimony and statements you've made since presenting that testimony suggested there's been no delay in the program; is that correct? MS. McCOLLOCH: Correct.
Which means -- and you are, at some level, an administrator of this program? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes. It's through a contract with PHDC. OHCD holds a contract with PHDC to carry out the program.
But it does fall under your purview to some extent. 54 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes, yes.
And so the NTI Program Budget being approved on June 14th and the NTI bond drawdown being approved by you on September 13th and the drawdown being approved by Ms. Gladstein on October 3rd and then the contract for the Basic Systems Repair Program being executed on October 18th falls into your timeline? MS. McCOLLOCH: It's a little bit later this year than in past years. It's a little bit later in this year than in past years because the contract was executed later. The October 18th date is a little bit later than past years. But the work -- the work that was done to gear up for the program, to set the program up and so forth, was all going on during that time.
I'm just asking whether that timeline I presented is consistent with your testimony. 55 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
And so this is the amount that all of this was supposed to take, and so now we're ready to go? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
And so what does "ready to go" mean? MS. McCOLLOCH: That PHDC is assigning cases to contractors, to the contractors that actually do the work in the houses.
So I am not confused about all of the details of the contracting process as you've laid out, I'm not confused about the timeline, I'm not confused about whether we're ready to go. I am confused about whether you actually believe there's still a problem or not. In other words, why 56 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 are we here? MS. McCOLLOCH: We're here -- I'm here because I was requested to come before City Council to describe this process.
Which means that, obviously, you believe that Council believes that there was a problem. And do you now understand whether that problem has been resolved or not? In other words, do you actually believe from your testimony that this problem is resolved? MS. McCOLLOCH: I believe the problem is resolved because I believe we have been carrying out the program all along, throughout the summer, to get it geared up. And I believe the problem is resolved because the funds are now under contract at PHDC, and PHDC can draw them down as needed to --
So let me ask -- 57 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 MS. McCOLLOCH: -- pay the contractor.
So let me ask a simple question: How quickly can you implement the $3.3 million program? MS. McCOLLOCH: Tony can answer that. MR. MacINTOSH: The program is being implemented as we speak now, Councilman. With respect to the 7th and 9th Districts, what's --
Mr. MacIntosh, my question is not, How quickly can you begin implementation; my question is, how quickly can you implement the $3.3 million. How quickly can you spend the money? MR. MacINTOSH: Oh, we'll spend it within the fiscal year.
So the answer to that is June 30th or is it September 30th? MR. MacINTOSH: No, June 30th. 58 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Mr. MacIntosh, how much staff do you have? MR. MacINTOSH: Uh, we have a staff of 65 people at PHDC.
What do they do? MR. MacINTOSH: The staff varies from administrative support staff to assisting with our financial needs, our finance department. We have a small legal staff. And the largest component is our home improvement program, and that's the department that carries out the Basic System Repair activities, and I would say they make up well over 50 percent of the staff at this point.
So they 59 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 execute -- they work with the contractors and execute the contracts? MR. MacINTOSH: Yes. They work with the contractors, they work with the homeowners to -- in an effort to deliver the services.
Once an individual has applied and you move to that application, how long does it take to implement the application to get the work done on the property? MR. MacINTOSH: Well, once all of the approvals are in place, we're now in a position to actually assign the work to a contractor, and --
How long does that process take? MR. MacINTOSH: Assigning to the contractor?
You take the application from the homeowner, you process the application; how much time does that take? MR. MacINTOSH: Well, in our 60 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 normal -- I'm going to have to say it's two systems here: We have our normal system and then we have our accelerated Councilmatic system. Under the accelerated Councilmatic system, once a homeowner and the property has been determined eligible for the program, an assignment can take place within seven to ten days.
Now, what happens to those constituents who are not in the accelerated program? MR. MacINTOSH: It's basically on a first come, first served basis. And once they're bumped up to the top of the list and their property had been determined eligible and the client is eligible, we can go ahead and make an assignment at that time.
But you didn't answer the question. MR. MacINTOSH: It's --
How long 61 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 does it take -- if Marian Tasco applies for a Basic System Repair grants for my roof and I get approved, you call me and say, "We're approving your case today," how long does it take it -- take me to get the contractor to my home to process it, to do the work? MR. MacINTOSH: With all of the approvals in place, it shouldn't take over about 60 days, Councilwoman.
So why does it take so long? MR. MacINTOSH: It takes so long for you to ramp up to the top of the list.
I'm not talking about ramping up; I'm talking about if I'm already up, it's my day, it's my day to get work done. How long does it take for the process of the application to implementation? MR. MacINTOSH: I'd say, again, 30 to 60 days; it wouldn't take any longer. 62 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
So why can't everybody get the same service of ten days? MR. MacINTOSH: 'Cause we run out of money -- that's the problem. There just aren't enough dollars available for -- first of all, we need to understand the program, all right? This is not an emergency home repair program where you call in today and expect to receive services by this -- sometime this week. It's not going to happen, that's not the program. The program is a program that addresses repairs that constitute an emergency within the property that make the property eligible to receive assistance under the program. So once that inspection occurs and the property had been determined that it meets the criteria, you're now eligible to be placed on the list. And the list is a substantial list. And I'm not out here to try and 63 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 mislead anybody that if you apply for the program, be prepared to wait. We are not an emergency repair program where we're going to deliver a repair to you, where you call us today and we'll have a repairman out Friday. This is not that program.
Okay. Now, let's go to the list. When we asked for the list of the properties by district, I got properties that were on my list from twenty years ago and I no longer represent those people, so we made a correction of the list. The list that you -- the seven people that you have identified, that Ms. McColloch identified that were in the 9th District, I'd like to see those -- the people who were serviced because I want to make sure they're in the 9th Councilmatic District. Now, have you directed your staff to make the corrections to all of 64 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 the lists citywide to make sure that the residents are in the proper Council District? MR. MacINTOSH: We have requested the IT department to look at the entire database in an effort to update it to make it appropriate as it relates to the Councilmatic Districts.
Is that IT department in your department? MR. MacINTOSH: As a part of the housing reorg, we no longer have an IT department directly, but we get --
Who does it? MR. MacINTOSH: But we get IT support from OHCD as a part of housing reorganization.
And where is it, Ms. McColloch, that request? MR. MacINTOSH: If I may, I've spoken with the IT director as recently as last week, and he had to go out to get three bids. They're going through 65 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 the three-bid process at this point in order to bring someone in to address the concerns related to the database.
So how -- so those concerns would be what? MR. MacINTOSH: Making sure that the boundaries -- as we run queries and things of that nature, queries especially as they relate to political subdivisions, we want them to actually be reflective of those that are actually used, you know, in political races. We're trying to bring that match in, and it's something that we've been trying to get done. But hopefully now, with the new IT support system, they'll be successful in implementing a more accurate database.
Now, will that system adjust to redistricting that will takes place in 2010? Whenever we have redistricting again, would that program be designed so that when we are redistrict -- we have a redistricting 66 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 process -- I think it's 2010 -- that the correct -- that the properties will go in the correct district? MR. MacINTOSH: I think at that time -- you know, I'm not speaking directly with the IT director on this -- that it would have to be revisited by him and his staff to see what adjustments would be needed and what level of skill sets would be required in order to implement those adjustments.
Well, could they look into the future? Could they know that redistricting is coming soon and that the boundaries will change and that the system could be designed to adjust to boundaries so we won't have to go out for another bid? MR. MacINTOSH: Councilwoman, I'd certainly bring that to their attention.
I think it's important that you do that. It comes every 30 years. 67 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 MR. MacINTOSH: Yes, ma'am.
Okay. Now, they may not go 30 years out, but certainly 2010 is not that far away, so the system should be designed to adjust to the boundary changes. And so it would behoove all of the Councilmembers to look at their list to make sure that the people who are on the list actually live in their district. MR. MacINTOSH: Well, with the help of your staff and the staff of Councilman Savage that has occurred with respect to Councilwoman Campbell's office, they're providing the list, so those are being addressed up front in her situation.
Let me just ask him, so what happens now? You still -- I don't know what list you're working off of, if you're working off 68 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 the new list I gave you of the new boundaries, but if somebody calls and they're still in your system identified as the 9th District but they're in Councilman Savage's district, 'cause I took Councilman Savage's district in 2004, and he got somebody else's residents in 2004, and Councilwoman -- we all got new people, and some of the new people were on his list and some of the old people were on my list. So now, until you get the system worked out, Miss Brown calls and she's still identified as being in the 9th District, but she doesn't live in the 9th District. MR. MacINTOSH: Well, see, right now, Councilwoman, I hear your concern, and we're moving forward to try and get it addressed. But right now, based on the list that your staff marked up, all right, that is the list that has been prioritized, all right, and that's the 69 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 list that we're moving forward. With respect to additional calls that are coming in, they go into the pipeline. And just because you're not falling into a specific quote/unquote district for this exercise, it does not prohibit you from getting service. This is a citywide program and you're eligible. And, see, with the million dollars that are available in your district, based on the pipeline, that's more than enough cases to address the dollars that have been made available.
Now, we have something that is called a Ward and Division Book.
It wouldn't hurt your staff to have a Ward and Division Book. That's what we do. We don't have any automatic system that tells people where we are. When they 70 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 call, we look at the book to determine whether or not they're in the 9th Councilmatic district. Just look up the address and record it on the sheet. If not, we refer it to the appropriate Councilperson. So until we can ramp this up, maybe you all can just get some Ward and Division Books from the City Commissioner's office and let your staff use that when a person calls in; it should be the first thing they should do.
Let me ask a question about how many -- Councilwoman Tasco, are you talking about the people who are on the list or the people who have already gotten served?
When I asked for the list of the residents in the 9th Councilmatic District, they had them listed by ward and --
These are 71 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 people approved to go forward?
They were on the list. MR. MacINTOSH: They were on the waiting list.
They were on the waiting list. So being on the waiting list means that you have not been processed and approved or that you've been processed and approved but you're waiting or both? MR. MacINTOSH: It varies. It could be some combination of both.
How many properties at any given time are on that list? MR. MacINTOSH: As a ball of thumb [sic], all right, I'd say it's at least about 4,000.
That's nothing to figure out what ward and division they're in. I mean, all you have to do is enter them onto a disk and give it to the City Commissioner's 72 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Office, and they will spit back a list which gives you the ward and division and then, obviously, the Council District for every one of those properties. I thought you were going to tell me there were like 50,000 properties. You could do it by hand, or you could streamline it by typing it -- have someone data-entry, copy that onto a disk, send it down to the City Commissioner's Office, they will run it with their system, and it comes back to you, a list or a sheet with all those addresses, ward division, and you could figure out the Councilmatic District just by that. So I don't know if you have to go out for three bids for that, to tell you the truth. That's something you could do with the people you have working. MR. MacINTOSH: Well, that's what was indicated to me last week, 73 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Councilman.
The point is, the City Commissioner's Office has that information up to date now. Why would you want to recreate the wheel? MR. MacINTOSH: I will follow up directly with the Commissioner with respect to the immediate need, but it wasn't until we produced the reports, because we thought our database was an accurate database that reflected the political subdivisions as they currently exist. However, it wasn't until the review by the office of Councilman Savage and Tasco where it was brought to our attention that there were serious discrepancies with respect to the cases we indicated that were in the 74 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 district versus those that are actually in there. I will assure you that we'll follow up.
Well, that source is available, so you should take it up.
Now, let me just ask this one question -- two questions, and I'll be finished. If the political subdivision didn't matter -- it must have mattered 'cause you had them by district. MR. MacINTOSH: Yes, yes.
So you must have had that. But prior to this process, what was the need to have the political subdivision if you took people as they came in? MR. MacINTOSH: Well, one of the things to show production by Council Districts, that was always a request we were getting, especially around hearing times and things of that nature. 75 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Okay, that answered my question. Did the reorganization impact your process of getting this -- all of this done? I mean, what impact did the reorganization have? MR. MacINTOSH: I think the reorganization --
Be honest. MR. MacINTOSH: I think the reorganization has impacted us absolutely along with the other housing agencies, where right now, we have to carry out basically the same level of services while we have less human resources to do it. And that's -- that's the end of all -- that's -- we're not reducing the level of program services and things of that nature; we're just asking more from the remaining folks that are there and available to get the job done.
So what 76 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 did you lose in the reorg? What did your department lose, or gain? MR. MacINTOSH: We lost approximately 34 staff people.
And so they were let go? MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct. It was about a 33 percent -- some found employment at OHCD; and, as a matter of fact, even a couple may be at the Redevelopment Authority. There was a joint labor and management placement committee that has been working along with the Administration and the union in an effort to find placement for those employees who were released as a result of the reorganization.
So, Ms. McColloch, if the process is slow in the reorg, why did we take people away from that department? And if it -- as we were told, these people would find someplace else to go, so it had no 77 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 budget impact. So why did you have this -- why did you all mess with this department? is the bottom line. MS. McCOLLOCH: The reduction in staff at PHDC was not necessarily from the Home Improvement Program staff, which is -- the main activity that PHDC carries out is the Home Improvement Programs -- BSRP, Weatherization, Adaptive Modifications. Those staff are the main staff of PHDC that are carrying out the program. The staff members at the reorganization addressed consolidating functions at OHCD, such as IT. As Tony just mentioned, there are no IT staff at PHDC; there are IT staff at OHCD. There are no office services staff at PHDC; there are office services staff at OHCD. The main function at OHCD by contract has asked PHDC to carry out is the Basic Systems Repair Program activities. 78 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
So in the IT process of trying to address of that we've been talking about, where would it come as a priority? And if it's part of your OHCD and you're doing 50 million other things, what's the priority for PHDC? MS. McCOLLOCH: Well, PHDC is one of the -- I mean, the IT staff at OHCD is now serving OHCD, Redevelopment Authority, and PHDC. So Tony just testified that he brought this problem of not being able to -- not having the data -- not having an accurate database to the attention of the director of IT at OHCD.
And where does he put that -- File 1 is a priority, File 2 or File 3 when I get to it? MS. McCOLLOCH: I don't know where he's put it, but I assure you that after this meeting, I'm going to go find out, after this hearing today. 79 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Sure. I think it's important. MS. McCOLLOCH: I agree.
I listened to your testimony, and it contradicts what you stated to us at a meeting we had this past summer in my office. When I talked to you about being able to do this in a very expeditious manner, you said that we could, and that if -- that's why my employees gave up their whole summer, to go out and get the applicants and get them filled out, the applications, so they could be gotten to you and processed, so you could get your people to deal with them and get the 80 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 inspectors out. And when I asked you -- I said, "I'm worried about these people who need heat." And I said, "How soon would we be able to get heaters to them?" and you told me we would be able to have heaters to them probably by the end of September or the 1st of October. Now, that was in the presence of my staff because I particularly asked you 'cause I told you I was worried with the winter approaching, what was going to happen to the people that really were in need, and you didn't say anything to me about the fiscal year; that is not what you said you. You told me we would have it done before the end of the year, everything. Now, that's what you said. MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct, Councilwoman. (Applause.) MR. MacINTOSH: And at that 81 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 time, we were talking about administering a program with $1.3 million to deliver services before the end of December of that year, of this year. And, Councilwoman, we at PHDC do not have a problem spending $1.3 million over a six-month period of time
We didn't talk about a six-month period of time because I don't have six months. MR. MacINTOSH: All right. With respect to heaters, it is something that we always prioritize at PHDC. And if the funding was available, yes, Councilwoman, we could have made a serious dent in the number of people in need of heaters by September, by October. There is no question, between July and October, if PHDC had funding, we could have addressed the heating needs of the people in your district.
82 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Mr. MacIntosh, I remember distinctively, because I was very disturbed after the hearings, when I realized the miniscule amount, percentage that the 4th Councilmatic District had received, and I told you I knew there were needy people in the 4th Councilmatic District, and I believe you walked me back to the office that day because I was very concerned about it, and that's why I told you I kept thinking about how can these people be helped, and that's when I finally came up and asked if we could move this money from NTI. Now, when I met with you, I told you -- I said, I want to get this done, and I will put my people out there. We will do whatever we have to do to make it possible. My people work from 9 o'clock in the morning till 9 o'clock at night. My people don't get paid overtime. They went out on Saturdays and Sundays because we knew there was a desperate 83 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 need out there among the people and that they needed help. Now, I am very, very disturbed, to put it mildly, that every -- I met with you on many occasions, and you were very helpful, and you told me that we would have this done, because I kept talking to you about the time element. And never once was I told any of this malarky that I am hearing here today, and I have a problem with this.
I was just wondering if there's a response or if you have another question. There's no 20 response? MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm not sure there was a question there.
Well, the discrepancy between what allegedly was told to her and what the current state 84 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 of affairs is. MR. MacINTOSH: Again, I'll reiterate that PHDC has no difficulty in spending $1.3 million. And with respect to that, if funds had have been available and all of the -- there were several things going on.
Let me cut to the chase for a second, and I'll go back to one of my original questions. MR. MacINTOSH: All right.
If the 1.3 for the 4th District had been drawn down from NTI in July, would Mr. MacIntosh have been able to accomplished what he promised Councilwoman Campbell in July -- or in June? MS. McCOLLOCH: Are you asking --
Yeah. MS. McCOLLOCH: He has testified that he could have -- I -- it was my belief that, really, that the 85 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 fink was not what was delaying things. It was the capacity of PHDC to carry out the program. It was carrying out the program. It would have spent this money or it would have spent other money. If it had spent the NTI money in June, the CDBG money wouldn't have been spent. So that it -- the process was moving forward. This gets back to my response to Councilman Goode that I didn't perceive that there was a problem because we were proceeding to implement the Basic Systems Repair Program throughout the summer, and we are continuing to implement it now.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. McIntosh, what does roughly-- 'cause I understand it varies -- a million dollars in BSRP money buy in terms of applications or 86 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 households served? MR. MacINTOSH: If we just used a ballpark figure, recognizing, say, a ballpark average of $10,000 a case, all right, we could do, what, a hundred-plus cases easily with the million dollars.
So you do roughly a hundred a month? MR. MacINTOSH: Um, I would say more, more than a hundred month.
Well, the testimony was that you spent about $12 million on an annual basis. MR. MacINTOSH: Yeah.
I'm using rough numbers. If you spend roughly $12 million a year, and a million dollars buys roughly a hundred applications -- MR. MacINTOSH: Yeah.
-- then you 87 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 do roughly 1200 a year? MR. MacINTOSH: No. Actually, we're well over that, but that's just an average. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
Give me a number. MR. MacINTOSH: We do in excess of 3,000 cases a year.
So if you do 3,000 a year, then you do several hundred a month. MR. MacINTOSH: Yes.
And so going back to my original question and, I guess, statement is, we are ready to go administratively in terms of timeline. So how much can be done, let's say, over the next two months? MR. MacINTOSH: I would say in the neighborhood of at least about 300 cases.