COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, October 29, 2007, 10:25 a.m. - - - RES. 070882 - Authorizing Council's Committee on Legislative Oversight to hold public hearings to investigate the Administration's failure to enter into contracts necessary to expand the Basic Systems Repair Program in the 7th Councilmatic District. RES. 070890 - Authorizing Council's Committee on Legislative Oversight to hold public hearings to investigate the Administration's failure to enter into contracts necessary to expand the Basic Systems Repair Program in the 4th Councilmatic District. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: James F. Kenney, Chair Carol Ann Campbell W. Wilson Goode Daniel J. Savage Marian B. Tasco - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Specialists 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 INDEX WITNESS Deborah McColloch, First Deputy, OHCD.... Eva Gladstein, Director, NTI............. 14 5 Anthony MacIntosh, Exec. V.P., PHDC...... 36 Michael Koontz, Exec. Director, RDA...... 116 Citizens: Darnell Helen, 4th Ward, 1st District.... 164 Diane Archer, 5901 Christian Street...... 166 Josephine Simmons 5520 Cambridge......... 171 Debra Archie, 7164 North 20th Street..... 173 Janice Strium, 624 North Frazier Street 177 Delores Afanador, 6131 W. Columbia Ave. 185 Jacqueline Carthon, 5300 W. Berks Street 190 Beatrice Chapell, 49 N. Hobart Street 194 Shirley Morrison, 3228 N. Etting Street 195 Elsa Calland, 129 North Edgewood Street 196 Ann Marie Salters, 7443 N. 20th Street 199 Pearl Riley, 5846 Race Street............ 201 Linda Williams, 2721 N. 45th Street...... 204 3 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Good morning. The Committee on Legislative Oversight is now in session to hear testimony on Resolution No. 070882, which is a resolution authorizing Council's Committee on Legislative Oversight to hold public hearings to investigate the Administration's failure to enter into contracts necessary to expand the Basic Systems Repair Program in the 7th Councilmatic District, as authorized by Resolution No. 070595 (adopted June 14, 2007) and in the 9th Councilmatic District, as authorized by Resolution 070588 (adopted June 14, 2007.) And A companion resolution is Resolution No. 07089, which authorizes Council's Committee on Legislative Oversight to hold public hearings to investigate the Administration's failure to enter into contracts necessary to expand the Basic Systems Repair Program in the 4th Councilmatic 4 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 District, as authorized by Resolution 3 No. 070405 (adopted June 14, 2007) and in the 9th Councilmatic District, as authorized by Resolution No. 070744 (adopted September 20, 2007.) I'd like to ask the representatives of the Administration to just come up as a group, 'cause I know Councilwoman Campbell is on her way, and Councilwoman Tasco has questions of her own relative to her district. So do you have written testimony? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
You do. Well -- MS. McCOLLOCH: Mr. Chairman, I believe it was --
I'm sorry. Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah, we do have it. I'm sorry. Do you have it? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes. 5 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 (Witness comes forward.)
Would you identify yourself for the record and proceed. MS. McCOLLOCH: My name is Deborah McColloch. Good morning, Councilman Kenney and members of City Council.
Good morning. MS. McCOLLOCH: I am Deborah McColloch, First Deputy at the Office of Housing and Community Development, and I'm here today to offer testimony on Resolution No. 070882 and Resolution 17 070890. These resolutions suggest a failure on the part of Office of Housing and Community Development, OHCD, to place funds for the Basic Systems Repair Program (BSRP) under contract, thus delaying program implementation. I'm here today to explain why this is not the case. 6 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 The contract status of the fund had no impact on the implementation of the Basic Systems Repair Program. OHCD is the City agency which applies for and receives federal funds -- Community Development Block Grant Funds, HOME Funds, and others, from HUD to implement a range of community-development programs to provide assistance to low- and moderate-income residents of the City of Philadelphia. The funding application is the document that is presented to City Council each spring for review and approval, known as the Consolidated Plan. It is important to understand the funding cycle for the Consolidated Plan. Each year, in January or February, the City is informed of its funding allocation for the federal fiscal year. The allocation is based 7 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 upon the budget passed by Congress and a complicated formula related to population, poverty, and the number of substandard housing units in the City. After receiving the funding allocation, OHCD prepares a document called the Preliminary Consolidated Plan outlining how the City intends to spend the funds. A public hearing is held to invite citizen comments. After the hearing, OHCD modifies the Preliminary Consolidated Plan and Proposed Consolidated Plan, which is submitted to City Council. The Proposed Consolidated Plan is usually submitted to City Council in April. City Council then schedules its own public hearing on the Proposed Consolidated Plan during which it takes testimony from the Administration and citizens. Traditionally, this hearing has occurred during the last week of May. City Council approves the 8 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Proposed Consolidated Plan by ordinance, which is usually passed at the last session of Council in June. OHCD then finalizes the Consolidated Plan and submits it to HUD in July. By regulation, HUD has 45 days to review and approve the Consolidated Plan, and the City is usually awarded the federal funds in August or early September. The following chart details this process for the last six years; and in my written testimony, the chart is outlined, which shows the approval dates by HUD for the last six years, which vary from the earliest date, which was August 13th, and the latest date was this year, October 5th. Thus, although the funding cycle is based upon the fiscal year, and contracts are dated to coincide with the fiscal year, as a practical matter, the funding cycle runs from September to September. During the first quarter of 9 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 the new fiscal year, the balance of funds from the previous fiscal year is being spent. There's no break in service or delay based upon the award of federal funds. This year, HUD did not approve the Consolidated Plan until October 5th. As a result, OHCD could not execute the contract with the Philadelphia Housing Development Corporation (PHDC), which carries out the Basic Systems Repair Program until after that date. The NTI funds for BSRP are included in that contract. However, the delay in executing the contract had no impact on the implementation of the Basic Systems Repair Program in the 4th, 7th, or 9th districts. The contract funding is not needed until the end of the process, when the subcontractors are paid for their work. Throughout the summer, OHCD and PHDC staff worked with Councilwoman 10 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES.
070882, 890 Campbell and members of her staff to create a BSRP for the 4th District. The first meeting I attended was August 1st, at which time we discussed such topics as the income guidelines, outreach procedures, and contracting. The plan was to include the 4th District BSRP activity in the Fiscal Year '08 contract between OHCD and PHDC. At that time, I expected to receive HUD approval by the end of August and execute the contract early in September. Since we were still working out the details of the program, that schedule seemed reasonable, because PHDC and the Councilwoman's office could move forward with marketing the program, and by the time any funds were needed, the contract would be in place. There were some additional meetings in August. OHCD prepared marketing flier, and the program was announced by Councilwoman Campbell on 11 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 August 29th. OHCD placed ads for the program in local papers -- the Neighborhood Leader, the Philadelphia Tribune, and the West side weekly -- on September 21st. The 4th District office began forwarding applications to PHDC the week of September 12th. All of this activity moved forward without an executed contract between OHCD and PHDC, and a contract was not necessary. Throughout September, the 4th District Office continued to forward applications to PHDC, which reviewed them, scheduled orientations, requested and reviewed client documentation, and scheduled inspections. There are many steps before a case is actually referred to a contractor for construction, which is the point at which funds must be available. Some of these steps require the timely submission of documentation by the client as well as availability 12 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 for inspections. No case was delayed because of the lack of an executed contract between OHCD and PHDC. The program services contract, which includes the 4th, 7th, and 9th District BSRP, was executed on October 18th. As of October 26th, approximately 450 referrals have been scheduled for orientation. Of these, 169 applications have been completed. Of these 169, 8 are not eligible, 106 need additional documentation, and 34 have been approved. PHDC is moving forward with the implementation of the program. In the 7th and 9th Districts, applications are being taken from the existing waiting list of approved cases, so it was not necessary to conduct special outreach and marketing. OHCD and PHDC staff met with members of the District Council staffs over the summer to finalize the program 13 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 in each district. As of October 26th, in the 7th District, cases have been 4 completed, 54 cases are under 5 construction, and 85 cases are awaiting assignment to the subcontractors. As of October 26th, in the 9th District, 7 cases have been completed, cases are under construction, and 95 10 cases are awaiting assignment to the 11 subcontractors. OHCD and PHDC staff acted in good faith to implement the 4th District BSRP and in the 7th and 9th Districts as well. I hope that this information is helpful in understanding the contracting process and status of the program. I'm happy to answer any questions you have.
Thank you. Since Ms. Gladstein's testimony is relatively short, I would ask her to please give that, and then we can have 14 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 questions from the panel. Thank you.
Thank you. Good morning. My name is Eva Gladstein, Director of Neighborhood Transformation for the City of Philadelphia. And thank you, Councilman Kenney, as chair of this committee, and other Councilmembers for the opportunity to provide testimony. I'd like to take this opportunity to explain the collaborative relationship that the NTI, the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative, enjoys with the Office of Housing and Community Development and how NTI bond proceeds are made available to fund programs such as the Basic Systems Repair Program. NTI prepares a proposed Program Statement and Budget for each fiscal year in which it intends to spend NTI bond proceeds. This Program Statement and Budget is approved by 15 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 City Council by resolution. The Fiscal Year '08 Program Statement and Budget for the period of July 1, 2008, through June 30, 2009, was approved by City Council on June 14, 2007. Consistent with Resolution 9 070405, 070595, and 070588, the approved Fiscal Year '08 Program Statement and Budget included an increase of 3.3 million to the BSRP beyond the 27,475,000 that was contained in the proposed budget. Implementation of the program can begin based upon the budget authorization and does not require the drawdown of NTI proceeds at that time. However, for your information, I will describe that process. In virtually all cases, the Mayor's Office of NTI is not the implementor of the funded programs. In order to access NTI bond proceeds, each City department that is responsible for 16 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 implementing a program funded by this source prepares an NTI bond drawdown request and submits it to NTI. Upon review by the appropriate officials, NTI forwards the signed form to the Redevelopment Authority, which then submits a request to the trustee to release the funds. The City's Fiscal Year '08 operating budget provides authority to OHCD to carry out the BSRP as well as a number of other programs funded by NTI. In the case of BSRP, OHCD submitted an NTI bond drawdown request to our office, and it was reviewed, the appropriate signatures attached, and returned to the Redevelopment Authority on October 3, 2007. This activity was carried out in a manner consistent with NTI processes and was not delayed in any way by any of the participants. I hope that this information is helpful in understanding the issues before you today. I'll be happy to 17 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 answer any questions for you.
Thank you very much for your testimony. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Campbell.
Yes. Ms. Gladstein, once City Council had approved the NTI Program Statement and Budget, were there funds to available July 1, 2007?
I'm not sure how to answer yes or no; let me do my best. Yes, there was budget authority. The cash was not necessarily at the City department.
Once the NTI Program Statement and Budget were approved by City Council on June 14th, could any of the implementing 18 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 departments prepare and submit an NTI bond drawdown request to your office for review in approval in advance of July 1, 2007.
I'm not sure. I didn't hear the last part of your question.
Once the NTI Program Statement and Budget was approved by City Council on June 14, 2007, could any of the implementing departments prepare and submit an NTI bond drawdown requesting your office for review and approval in advance of July 1, 2007?
Any of the implementing entities could prepare an NTI bond drawdown after July, which is the beginning of the fiscal year.
That is a yes answer? 19 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Okay. So your testimony is that if an implementing department wanted or needed funds effective July 1, 2007, that process could have been completed by the end of June, and the funds could have been available by July 1, 2007; is that correct?
Let me correct my first statement, that we would not have signed off on any bond drawdown prior to July 1st because our Program Statement and Budget begins July 1st, so no activity could have taken place between June 14th until July 1st.
If you could please provide members of the committee with a copy of the NTI bond drawdown request you referred to in your statement -- your testimony.
Yes. (Requested documents provided to committee members by Ms. Gladstein.) 20 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
It's very pale. Could you read it to me, please? I can't see it.
I'm sorry. Do you want me to read the entire form for you?
Okay. The title is "City of Philadelphia Request for NTI Bond Proceeds." Date of request: September 13, 2007. On the right-hand side, OHCD, 32, submitted by Office of Housing and Community Development. Amount of request: $3.3 million. It lists the vendor name as Philadelphia Housing Development Corporation. A description: The first line is the 4th District. The second line is the 7th District. The third line is the 9th District BSRP. NTI budget line: In all 21 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 cases, that says: Fiscal Year 2008, Council BSRP. In the 4th District, the amount listed is 1.3 million; for the 7th District, 1 million; and for the 9th District, 1 million; the total being 3.3 million. And the department certification says the following: The intergovernmental cooperation agreement entered into as of May 9, 2002, between the RDA and the City of Philadelphia (known as The Cooperation Agreement) provides a mechanism for the disbursement of program funds, fiscal responsibilities, and recordkeeping consistent with the requirements of Section 7 of Ordinance 20 Bill No. 020036 (known as The Ordinance) -- and that's the NTI authorizing ordinance. The undersigned hereby certifies the following: I have reviewed and approved the supporting 22 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 documentation for the requisition and the information contained in the requisition as true and accurate. The obligations contained in this requisition have been and will be properly incurred and are a proper charge against the program fund. The amount requested is, or will become, due and is unpaid and does not exceed the maximum allocations for each category of costs set forth in the Annual Program Statement and Budget, as approved in accordance with Section 7 of the ordinance. The proceeds of the requisition will not be used in any way other than for payment of eligible costs of the program. I have accurate records and accounts, including contracts, bills and invoices, and other documents, correspondence, and other evidence explaining the services or materials supplied and pertaining to the costs 23 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 and expenses reflecting all matters and activities covered by this requisition. I'll maintain and make such records available for inspection upon request for audit and examination; will maintain such records for a period of five years from the date of final audit, except in those cases where there are unresolved audit questions, in which event records shall be maintained until all pending matters are resolved. The first signature line is from the Office of Housing and Community Development contract administration. And then there are approvals signed first by the Office of Housing and Community Development, the First Deputy Deborah McColloch on September 13th, and then my signature, Eva Gladstein, from the Mayor's Office of Neighborhood Transformation on October 3rd.
Excuse me. 24 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Whose signature is the first one? MS. McCOLLOCH: That's laura Taylor, who is the contract administrator at OHCD.
Good morning, good morning. MS. McCOLLOCH: Good morning.
Included in your testimony, in your testimony you presented this morning, you acknowledge that the Basic Systems Repair Program for Fiscal Year '08 was increased by $3.3 million in the budget authorization that was approved on June 14th. The purpose of this increase was to shift NTI funds which were 25 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 allocated for demolition in the 4th, 7th, and 9th Council Districts for Basic Systems Repair, true?
Actually, in the 4th District, funds were shifted from several other categories. But yes, the net impact was to increase the Basic Systems Repair Program.
According to your testimony, the implementation of the Basic Systems Repair Program can begin based upon the budget authorization and does not require the drawdown of NTI bond proceeds?
Yes. It's -- this has occurred in previous years for other programs in that the program operations are not necessarily -- the NTI funds are used for the actual physical work or improvements on the property, and the agency has other funds available which enable it to do the program and administrative work.
Okay. 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Considering your statement, the implementation of the BSRP could have occurred in the July and did not need to wait until your office approved OHCD's NTI bond drawdown request?
I'm assuming that the other program elements were available or ready, which I have no 10 knowledge -- I don't know. But I'm saying, in terms of a cash situation, my understanding is that the use of these funds was -- would be to pay for the actual contracted service, and that there is significant other work that occurs previous to that.
Do -- and I guess I should ask Mr. MacIntosh this, and I will. How does the process work? We passed the budget in June and the resolution, and we expected this process to begin July 1, if not sooner, so we understand the budget process is July 1. Could PHDC have applied 27 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 directly for the NTI funds, or they had to go through OHCD for the drawdown?
Because the budget authority rests with OHCD, they would have had to go through OHCD.
So you had to wait to get the request for the drawdown from OHCD.
All right. Ms. McColloch, in your -- in October the 19th edition of the Inquirer, Kevin Hanna was quoted as saying that "the implementation of the Basic Systems Repair Program has been delayed because HUD was two months late in authorizing the funds needed for the program." Could -- did he -- let me see. Could the Community Development Block Grant Funds portion of BSRP or the 3.3 increase based on NTI funds, was he talking about that? MS. McCOLLOCH: He -- 28 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
What was he talking about? MS. McCOLLOCH: He was saying that the -- that the contract between OHCD and PHDC was delayed in its execution because we did not have the Community Development Block Grant Funds that are a part of that contract. That contract includes several different sources of funding -- CDBG, NTI, and so forth, HOME, and several different kinds. So we couldn't execute that contract until we had approval from HUD for the funds because the contract couldn't be certified 'cause we didn't have the money from HUD.
My understanding is that there are two portions of this program in terms of 29 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 funding; one is CDBG in terms of program administration, and the other is NTI funds? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
And the NTI funds could be made available at any point after July 1st? MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm sorry?
The NTI funds could be made available at any point after July 1st? MS. McCOLLOCH: They could have been -- they had to be placed under contract. But yes, they could have been.
And so you were waiting on the CDBG portion? MS. McCOLLOCH: We were waiting for the CDBG portion.
Which is program administration? MS. McCOLLOCH: Both program administration and also a source of program dollars, both. 30 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
For this particular 3.3 million that we're talking about, my understanding is that the program source is NTI funds? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yeah. For this 3.3, the only source is NTI funds for this particular budget.
So in order to implement this $3.3 million program, you're awaiting on CDBG funds? MS. McCOLLOCH: We were waiting to execute the contract; we did not delay implementation of the programs.
But the CDBG funds under this $3.3 million program were only for program administration? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
And so the people were working anyway, weren't they? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
So that didn't make any sense. MS. McCOLLOCH: There was no 31 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 delay in the program.
But that doesn't make any sense. There's no way you can wait for CDBG funds for program administration if everyone's going to work every day and being paid every day, waiting for the contract anyway. MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm sorry. I'm not sure what -- other than to say what I've said already, which was: There was no delay in implementing the program.
Okay. At what point -- you said you had to wait to go into contract. MS. McCOLLOCH: We had to wait to sign the contract, but signing the contract did not have an impact upon the implementation of the program. We were working throughout the summer, implementing the program.
Actually, Councilwoman Tasco is asking you to clarify Kevin Hanna's comments that you had to wait to go into contract and 32 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 whether they were true or not. MS. McCOLLOCH: It is true that we had to wait to go under contract.
You had to wait to go under contract for what? MS. McCOLLOCH: We had to wait to execute the contract until we had the funding approval from HUD.
For what purpose? MS. McCOLLOCH: To sign the contract. We couldn't sign the contract --
That has nothing to do with the implementation of the program. MS. McCOLLOCH: I agree.
Okay. MS. McCOLLOCH: There was no in the implementation of the program.
My question is: You didn't ask for the 33 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 drawdown until October, so why couldn't you have asked for the drawdown in July? Because you already -- you say in your statement that during the first quarter of the new fiscal year, the balance of funds from the previous fiscal year is being spent. There is no break in service of delay based upon the award of federal funds. So if they were already working, as Councilman Goode says, and they're over there, you don't need approval of HUD to expend the NTI dollars; why couldn't you have amended the existing contract to provide the funds from NTI so that we could have started in July and asked for the drawdown, as opposed to October? MS. McCOLLOCH: We could have amended an existing contract.
And so why did you -- MS. McCOLLOCH: But there was no -- I take you back to my testimony, 34 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 which shows that between -- since the beginning of July, in the 9th District, cases have been completed, cases 5 are under construction, and 95 cases are 6 awaiting assignment to the 7 subcontractors. 8 That was spending the money 9 that was under contract, so there was 10 no delay in the program. We were 11 simply, as you requested, taking people from the waiting list and moving them through the system.
But that was already from money that was already allocated to the Basic Systems Repair Program; it wasn't NTI dollars because you didn't ask for the drawdown until October. So you were spending money that was already set aside for the Basic Systems Repair Program in my district. Were those -- were those -- could we get Mr. MacIntosh up here? MS. McCOLLOCH: Sure. (Witness comes forward.) 35 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Just in general too, I'm curious as to whether or not there are any other districts -- any other Council Districts that have experienced any delays, or is this isolated -- or are the perceived delays isolated to three districts? MS. McCOLLOCH: Well, I would suggest -- the program is -- and Tony can speak to this more than I. The process of the program is not in -- is not a speedy one, and so I think people perceive that the program takes time between the time of application to the time of completion, but that is the process of the program. But I would say that as far as I know, no other people have -- no 20 other Council Districts --
So you've gotten no other district complaints from any other District Council people? MS. McCOLLOCH: No. 25
Okay, thank 36 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 you. Councilwoman Tasco?
That's probably because I'm not sure that any other District Council people requested NTI dollars; I'm not sure about that. This refers to the NTI dollars that we approved and were available July 1. Mr. MacIntosh, would you explain to me how the seven cases in the 9th District were completed. Had they started prior to July 11 with existing dollars? MR. MacINTOSH: First let me introduce myself. My name is Anthony MacIntosh, and I'm the Executive Vice President of Philadelphia Housing Development Corporation. With respect to your specific question, Councilwoman, the seven jobs that were completed were in our system, and we used available dollars at that time.
So no NTI 37 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 dollars have been expended for the 9th Councilmatic District yet? MR. MacINTOSH: Not during this past fiscal year.
All right. So the $1.1 million is still there for 9th Councilmatic District of NTI funds. MR. MacINTOSH: That's my understanding.
'Cause you only got the approval in October? MR. MacINTOSH: That's my understanding. Yes, that's right.
So that's what we were referring to, Ms. McColloch, that these seven were not a part of the NTI dollars. We were talking about the NTI process. MS. McCOLLOCH: Right.
And I guess what kind of raised our hair was the fact that we were led to believe through Mr. Hanna's statement and other comments that we had to wait till HUD 38 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 approved these funds, which they had no 3 jurisdiction over, and we do know that you have the ability to amend an existing contract to get something done. MS. McCOLLOCH: These cases that were completed were completed with other funds, and they will be charged back now that the contract is in place. They will be charged to the NTI funds to then --
Well, why they be charged to the NTI funds when these people were on the list for the last umpteen years? And so they should -- if he had them in the pipeline, as you say, the process is so slow, they were probably -- they were probably in the pipeline to get done probably before we even talked about expending these monies. So the monies that we have approved for July can, you know, were for the new -- for the people who were on the list, not the people who were 39 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 getting services through the existing dollars. You're not going to take NTI dollars and charge me for stuff that was already on the list and people were on the waiting list. I didn't get a new list; all I did was group my people in the 9th Councilmatic District, but some of those people were already on the list; is that true, Mr. MacIntosh? MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct, Councilwoman.
All right. Could you give me the documentation on these seven and when they were began? 'Cause I don't want their -- that expenditure, which was already in the pipeline for the Basic Systems Repair Program that came off the list in whatever way you all take them off the list and you give them the -- you provide the money for them to do the work. You're not going to back and take the money out of the million dollars, 40 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 'cause this is additional money, 'cause they were already on the list. And what we were saying with the $1 million in the 9th is that we're going to move these people up that you haven't begun to process at all in the 9th Councilmatic District. So there will be no reimbursement. MS. McCOLLOCH: Okay.
Can I just ask a question for information sake? Hypothetically, or theoretically, if you had drawn down the million dollars in July from NTI, would more people have gotten serviced faster and come off the waiting list? If you had the extra million dollars in your hands in July or August, would more people have the opportunity to have sped up this process and gotten service as opposed to the situation we have now? MR. MacINTOSH: It would help us expedite the delivery of the service, 41 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 yes.
So I guess the anger from the District Councilpeople is why wouldn't you draw down the money. If it's sitting in a pot over there and you can use it, why would you wait until October to draw it?
And Councilman Goode has a follow-up and then Councilman Savage. But I'm interested in hearing what the mindset was as to waiting till October to draw down the million when it was available in July and we could have done more people and served more folks.
Ms. McColloch, before you answer the question, the follow-up is: How much 42 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 money is usually actually expended on an annual basis? Can you gie me some sense of the last couple fiscal years. MS. McCOLLOCH: Of how much has spent on the BSRP Program?
Actually expended. MS. McCOLLOCH: Right. It's approximately 12 to 14 million, but what was allocated -- this is -- allocation last year -- was 13 -- a little over 13 million. It is spent -- as I've described, the way it's actually spent is September to September rather than July to June 30th. So last year's budget is fully expended but it's not all fully expended between July 1st and June 30th. But last year's budget was 43 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 million. 3
Actually 4 expended, how much was actually expended 5 last year? 6 MS. McCOLLOCH: I don't have 7 that number at this hearing, but I can 8 provide it to you. 9
I said at 10 the beginning of the question that I 11 don't care how much was allocated; I 12 want to know how much expended. 13 MS. McCOLLOCH: Right. And what I'm saying is, the full budget is always expended, but I couldn't tell you of that 13 million the exact number between July 1 and June 30th.
For previous years, can you give me any indication of how much is usually spent, that actually goes out in terms program dollars on the Basic Systems Repair Program? MS. McCOLLOCH: It's about 12 million. Essentially, what's allocated is what's spent. 44 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
And all those program dollars are also administrative dollars. MS. McCOLLOCH: These are program dollars.
I'm sorry. I didn't know if I got an answer to the question that I asked, which was: Could we have served more people in a more timely fashion if we had drawn down the million? MS. McCOLLOCH: I -- well, I believe that we were moving the program forward at the regular rate that we were moving it forward --
Which is slow. MS. McCOLLOCH: Which is slow, agreed. I mean, admittedly, and that's no disrespect to anyone doing it; that's just the time it takes to do the program. 45 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 And that to add the funds to a contract to amend a contract, it takes about six weeks to amend a contract, and so I expected to have the new contract in place. And because we were moving forward with the implementation of the program without a contract, I expected to put the new money in the new contract. But all of that is a long answer to a short question, which is: It would have been possible to amend an old contract to put the money in.
Okay. And the answer to my question is: Yes, more people would have gotten served in a more timely fashion, according to the Mr. MacIntosh. MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct, Councilman.
I want to follow up on the chair and what he was 46 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 speaking about. Mr. MacIntosh, you said it would expedite the process as far as if the contract was signed on July 1st? MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct.
Why is it so slow? I mean, would they have received the benefits? You say it would expedite the process, but would they have received the actual benefit of the BSRP before today? And why is that taking so slow? I don't understand that. MR. MacINTOSH: With respect to the program in and of itself, all right, the monies that are allocated to PHDC are divided among the various contractors in an effort to try and hope that it provides 12 months worth of work for the particular contractor. The contractors try to traditionally spread the work out over the 12-month period because they realize that they're not going to get 47 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 another contract for another months. One of the most difficult things with respect to this program is deploying and redeploying staff. And from a contractor's perspective, they try and hold on to their crews, so that's their rationale for sort of spreading out the work over the 12-month period, because once they lose their crews, it's difficult in some cases to get them back -- if they ever get them back. And so, that's one of the rationales for taking the allocation, spreading it out over the 12-month period, and delivering service in that particular manner. With respect to delays, this program is, if I may say, is grossly underfunded. The demands on the program for services far exceeds the financial resources available that we have to address the needs of the homeowners throughout the City of 48 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Philadelphia. And as a result of that and recognizing that this is a grant program, it's not a loan program, the demand is tremendous for the scarce dollars that we have available. That adds tremendously to the delay because if we're getting a hundred phone calls a day but we're only able to service ten people a day, that is only compounded when we're working over 260-plus days a year. So it's a difficult situation, and we do what we can to try and manage it. We were at -- PHDC was looking -- we were rather excited about getting the opportunity to undertake the Basic Systems Repair Program in a targeted fashion and working with the District Council offices because what in essence they would allow us to do was be to treat that many more people throughout the City while assisting the 49 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Councilpeople in delivering service to their constituency. So that's a long answer to a short question.
I don't believe you answered the question. The question was: Would not more people have been served if this money had been made available earlier? MR. MacINTOSH: And I would say yes, Councilwoman.
One more question. As far as Councilwoman Tasco and so we're talking the 9th District, and the 7th District, we transferred -- it was a simple process in my eyes. We transferred $1 million into the BSRP to facilitate the process. And the back 50 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 list, from what I looked at, it went before 2003, because that's when the redistricting was for Council, and I had some of Councilman Clarke's on my list. And so, Mr. MacIntosh, when you speak of, you know, being delayed for the applicants coming in every day, I mean, we're looking at 2003 and 2007, that's five years ago. I mean, I don't get that. MR. MacINTOSH: Well, it depends. The waiting list is going to vary; it's going to vary depending on the type of services that are being requested. One of the things that you may see is, with respect to heaters, all right, at PHDC during the winter months, the heating need list is relatively a short list. It's something that we address and we address in an emergency fashion. With respect to some of the 51 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 other areas, again, the program is first come, first served, and it's a program whereby our ability delivers depending on the funds being made available to assist. And constantly, year after year, we have more people requesting services for the program that we cannot serve with the available financial resources we have available.
Just one also informational request. Are there any other districts that receive NTI funds for their BSRP programs?
There's NTI funds that probably, for the last five or six years, have been made available for the overall BSRP Program, so let me restate that. This was the first time that it was done on a district-by-district 52 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 basis, but in addition to the 3.3 million that was approved and then subsequent funds approved by Councilwoman Campbell for the 4th District, there was an allocation of NTI funds, bond proceeds of, I think, $27 million-plus over the course of NTI.
But there's no other document like this, which would delineate a specific district in an amount?
Correct. The other documents would have been for the general programs and would have just said "BSRP"; it would not have a district number next to it.
Can you -- why was it done that way here? Because the money was added in after originally being approved?
My understanding was that the Councilpersons were asking for more of a 53 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 targeted program rather than the funds being spread citywide, for those funds that they had allocated being used for constituents of their districts.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. McColloch, your written testimony and statements you've made since presenting that testimony suggested there's been no delay in the program; is that correct? MS. McCOLLOCH: Correct.
Which means -- and you are, at some level, an administrator of this program? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes. It's through a contract with PHDC. OHCD holds a contract with PHDC to carry out the program.
But it does fall under your purview to some extent. 54 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes, yes.
And so the NTI Program Budget being approved on June 14th and the NTI bond drawdown being approved by you on September 13th and the drawdown being approved by Ms. Gladstein on October 3rd and then the contract for the Basic Systems Repair Program being executed on October 18th falls into your timeline? MS. McCOLLOCH: It's a little bit later this year than in past years. It's a little bit later in this year than in past years because the contract was executed later. The October 18th date is a little bit later than past years. But the work -- the work that was done to gear up for the program, to set the program up and so forth, was all going on during that time.
I'm just asking whether that timeline I presented is consistent with your testimony. 55 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
And so this is the amount that all of this was supposed to take, and so now we're ready to go? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
And so what does "ready to go" mean? MS. McCOLLOCH: That PHDC is assigning cases to contractors, to the contractors that actually do the work in the houses.
So I am not confused about all of the details of the contracting process as you've laid out, I'm not confused about the timeline, I'm not confused about whether we're ready to go. I am confused about whether you actually believe there's still a problem or not. In other words, why 56 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 are we here? MS. McCOLLOCH: We're here -- I'm here because I was requested to come before City Council to describe this process.
Which means that, obviously, you believe that Council believes that there was a problem. And do you now understand whether that problem has been resolved or not? In other words, do you actually believe from your testimony that this problem is resolved? MS. McCOLLOCH: I believe the problem is resolved because I believe we have been carrying out the program all along, throughout the summer, to get it geared up. And I believe the problem is resolved because the funds are now under contract at PHDC, and PHDC can draw them down as needed to --
So let me ask -- 57 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 MS. McCOLLOCH: -- pay the contractor.
So let me ask a simple question: How quickly can you implement the $3.3 million program? MS. McCOLLOCH: Tony can answer that. MR. MacINTOSH: The program is being implemented as we speak now, Councilman. With respect to the 7th and 9th Districts, what's --
Mr. MacIntosh, my question is not, How quickly can you begin implementation; my question is, how quickly can you implement the $3.3 million. How quickly can you spend the money? MR. MacINTOSH: Oh, we'll spend it within the fiscal year.
So the answer to that is June 30th or is it September 30th? MR. MacINTOSH: No, June 30th. 58 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Mr. MacIntosh, how much staff do you have? MR. MacINTOSH: Uh, we have a staff of 65 people at PHDC.
What do they do? MR. MacINTOSH: The staff varies from administrative support staff to assisting with our financial needs, our finance department. We have a small legal staff. And the largest component is our home improvement program, and that's the department that carries out the Basic System Repair activities, and I would say they make up well over 50 percent of the staff at this point.
So they 59 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 execute -- they work with the contractors and execute the contracts? MR. MacINTOSH: Yes. They work with the contractors, they work with the homeowners to -- in an effort to deliver the services.
Once an individual has applied and you move to that application, how long does it take to implement the application to get the work done on the property? MR. MacINTOSH: Well, once all of the approvals are in place, we're now in a position to actually assign the work to a contractor, and --
How long does that process take? MR. MacINTOSH: Assigning to the contractor?
You take the application from the homeowner, you process the application; how much time does that take? MR. MacINTOSH: Well, in our 60 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 normal -- I'm going to have to say it's two systems here: We have our normal system and then we have our accelerated Councilmatic system. Under the accelerated Councilmatic system, once a homeowner and the property has been determined eligible for the program, an assignment can take place within seven to ten days.
Now, what happens to those constituents who are not in the accelerated program? MR. MacINTOSH: It's basically on a first come, first served basis. And once they're bumped up to the top of the list and their property had been determined eligible and the client is eligible, we can go ahead and make an assignment at that time.
But you didn't answer the question. MR. MacINTOSH: It's --
How long 61 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 does it take -- if Marian Tasco applies for a Basic System Repair grants for my roof and I get approved, you call me and say, "We're approving your case today," how long does it take it -- take me to get the contractor to my home to process it, to do the work? MR. MacINTOSH: With all of the approvals in place, it shouldn't take over about 60 days, Councilwoman.
So why does it take so long? MR. MacINTOSH: It takes so long for you to ramp up to the top of the list.
I'm not talking about ramping up; I'm talking about if I'm already up, it's my day, it's my day to get work done. How long does it take for the process of the application to implementation? MR. MacINTOSH: I'd say, again, 30 to 60 days; it wouldn't take any longer. 62 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
So why can't everybody get the same service of ten days? MR. MacINTOSH: 'Cause we run out of money -- that's the problem. There just aren't enough dollars available for -- first of all, we need to understand the program, all right? This is not an emergency home repair program where you call in today and expect to receive services by this -- sometime this week. It's not going to happen, that's not the program. The program is a program that addresses repairs that constitute an emergency within the property that make the property eligible to receive assistance under the program. So once that inspection occurs and the property had been determined that it meets the criteria, you're now eligible to be placed on the list. And the list is a substantial list. And I'm not out here to try and 63 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 mislead anybody that if you apply for the program, be prepared to wait. We are not an emergency repair program where we're going to deliver a repair to you, where you call us today and we'll have a repairman out Friday. This is not that program.
Okay. Now, let's go to the list. When we asked for the list of the properties by district, I got properties that were on my list from twenty years ago and I no longer represent those people, so we made a correction of the list. The list that you -- the seven people that you have identified, that Ms. McColloch identified that were in the 9th District, I'd like to see those -- the people who were serviced because I want to make sure they're in the 9th Councilmatic District. Now, have you directed your staff to make the corrections to all of 64 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 the lists citywide to make sure that the residents are in the proper Council District? MR. MacINTOSH: We have requested the IT department to look at the entire database in an effort to update it to make it appropriate as it relates to the Councilmatic Districts.
Is that IT department in your department? MR. MacINTOSH: As a part of the housing reorg, we no longer have an IT department directly, but we get --
Who does it? MR. MacINTOSH: But we get IT support from OHCD as a part of housing reorganization.
And where is it, Ms. McColloch, that request? MR. MacINTOSH: If I may, I've spoken with the IT director as recently as last week, and he had to go out to get three bids. They're going through 65 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 the three-bid process at this point in order to bring someone in to address the concerns related to the database.
So how -- so those concerns would be what? MR. MacINTOSH: Making sure that the boundaries -- as we run queries and things of that nature, queries especially as they relate to political subdivisions, we want them to actually be reflective of those that are actually used, you know, in political races. We're trying to bring that match in, and it's something that we've been trying to get done. But hopefully now, with the new IT support system, they'll be successful in implementing a more accurate database.
Now, will that system adjust to redistricting that will takes place in 2010? Whenever we have redistricting again, would that program be designed so that when we are redistrict -- we have a redistricting 66 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 process -- I think it's 2010 -- that the correct -- that the properties will go in the correct district? MR. MacINTOSH: I think at that time -- you know, I'm not speaking directly with the IT director on this -- that it would have to be revisited by him and his staff to see what adjustments would be needed and what level of skill sets would be required in order to implement those adjustments.
Well, could they look into the future? Could they know that redistricting is coming soon and that the boundaries will change and that the system could be designed to adjust to boundaries so we won't have to go out for another bid? MR. MacINTOSH: Councilwoman, I'd certainly bring that to their attention.
I think it's important that you do that. It comes every 30 years. 67 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 MR. MacINTOSH: Yes, ma'am.
Okay. Now, they may not go 30 years out, but certainly 2010 is not that far away, so the system should be designed to adjust to the boundary changes. And so it would behoove all of the Councilmembers to look at their list to make sure that the people who are on the list actually live in their district. MR. MacINTOSH: Well, with the help of your staff and the staff of Councilman Savage that has occurred with respect to Councilwoman Campbell's office, they're providing the list, so those are being addressed up front in her situation.
Let me just ask him, so what happens now? You still -- I don't know what list you're working off of, if you're working off 68 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 the new list I gave you of the new boundaries, but if somebody calls and they're still in your system identified as the 9th District but they're in Councilman Savage's district, 'cause I took Councilman Savage's district in 2004, and he got somebody else's residents in 2004, and Councilwoman -- we all got new people, and some of the new people were on his list and some of the old people were on my list. So now, until you get the system worked out, Miss Brown calls and she's still identified as being in the 9th District, but she doesn't live in the 9th District. MR. MacINTOSH: Well, see, right now, Councilwoman, I hear your concern, and we're moving forward to try and get it addressed. But right now, based on the list that your staff marked up, all right, that is the list that has been prioritized, all right, and that's the 69 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 list that we're moving forward. With respect to additional calls that are coming in, they go into the pipeline. And just because you're not falling into a specific quote/unquote district for this exercise, it does not prohibit you from getting service. This is a citywide program and you're eligible. And, see, with the million dollars that are available in your district, based on the pipeline, that's more than enough cases to address the dollars that have been made available.
Now, we have something that is called a Ward and Division Book.
It wouldn't hurt your staff to have a Ward and Division Book. That's what we do. We don't have any automatic system that tells people where we are. When they 70 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 call, we look at the book to determine whether or not they're in the 9th Councilmatic district. Just look up the address and record it on the sheet. If not, we refer it to the appropriate Councilperson. So until we can ramp this up, maybe you all can just get some Ward and Division Books from the City Commissioner's office and let your staff use that when a person calls in; it should be the first thing they should do.
Let me ask a question about how many -- Councilwoman Tasco, are you talking about the people who are on the list or the people who have already gotten served?
When I asked for the list of the residents in the 9th Councilmatic District, they had them listed by ward and --
These are 71 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 people approved to go forward?
They were on the list. MR. MacINTOSH: They were on the waiting list.
They were on the waiting list. So being on the waiting list means that you have not been processed and approved or that you've been processed and approved but you're waiting or both? MR. MacINTOSH: It varies. It could be some combination of both.
How many properties at any given time are on that list? MR. MacINTOSH: As a ball of thumb [sic], all right, I'd say it's at least about 4,000.
That's nothing to figure out what ward and division they're in. I mean, all you have to do is enter them onto a disk and give it to the City Commissioner's 72 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Office, and they will spit back a list which gives you the ward and division and then, obviously, the Council District for every one of those properties. I thought you were going to tell me there were like 50,000 properties. You could do it by hand, or you could streamline it by typing it -- have someone data-entry, copy that onto a disk, send it down to the City Commissioner's Office, they will run it with their system, and it comes back to you, a list or a sheet with all those addresses, ward division, and you could figure out the Councilmatic District just by that. So I don't know if you have to go out for three bids for that, to tell you the truth. That's something you could do with the people you have working. MR. MacINTOSH: Well, that's what was indicated to me last week, 73 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Councilman.
The point is, the City Commissioner's Office has that information up to date now. Why would you want to recreate the wheel? MR. MacINTOSH: I will follow up directly with the Commissioner with respect to the immediate need, but it wasn't until we produced the reports, because we thought our database was an accurate database that reflected the political subdivisions as they currently exist. However, it wasn't until the review by the office of Councilman Savage and Tasco where it was brought to our attention that there were serious discrepancies with respect to the cases we indicated that were in the 74 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 district versus those that are actually in there. I will assure you that we'll follow up.
Well, that source is available, so you should take it up.
Now, let me just ask this one question -- two questions, and I'll be finished. If the political subdivision didn't matter -- it must have mattered 'cause you had them by district. MR. MacINTOSH: Yes, yes.
So you must have had that. But prior to this process, what was the need to have the political subdivision if you took people as they came in? MR. MacINTOSH: Well, one of the things to show production by Council Districts, that was always a request we were getting, especially around hearing times and things of that nature. 75 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Okay, that answered my question. Did the reorganization impact your process of getting this -- all of this done? I mean, what impact did the reorganization have? MR. MacINTOSH: I think the reorganization --
Be honest. MR. MacINTOSH: I think the reorganization has impacted us absolutely along with the other housing agencies, where right now, we have to carry out basically the same level of services while we have less human resources to do it. And that's -- that's the end of all -- that's -- we're not reducing the level of program services and things of that nature; we're just asking more from the remaining folks that are there and available to get the job done.
So what 76 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 did you lose in the reorg? What did your department lose, or gain? MR. MacINTOSH: We lost approximately 34 staff people.
And so they were let go? MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct. It was about a 33 percent -- some found employment at OHCD; and, as a matter of fact, even a couple may be at the Redevelopment Authority. There was a joint labor and management placement committee that has been working along with the Administration and the union in an effort to find placement for those employees who were released as a result of the reorganization.
So, Ms. McColloch, if the process is slow in the reorg, why did we take people away from that department? And if it -- as we were told, these people would find someplace else to go, so it had no 77 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 budget impact. So why did you have this -- why did you all mess with this department? is the bottom line. MS. McCOLLOCH: The reduction in staff at PHDC was not necessarily from the Home Improvement Program staff, which is -- the main activity that PHDC carries out is the Home Improvement Programs -- BSRP, Weatherization, Adaptive Modifications. Those staff are the main staff of PHDC that are carrying out the program. The staff members at the reorganization addressed consolidating functions at OHCD, such as IT. As Tony just mentioned, there are no IT staff at PHDC; there are IT staff at OHCD. There are no office services staff at PHDC; there are office services staff at OHCD. The main function at OHCD by contract has asked PHDC to carry out is the Basic Systems Repair Program activities. 78 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
So in the IT process of trying to address of that we've been talking about, where would it come as a priority? And if it's part of your OHCD and you're doing 50 million other things, what's the priority for PHDC? MS. McCOLLOCH: Well, PHDC is one of the -- I mean, the IT staff at OHCD is now serving OHCD, Redevelopment Authority, and PHDC. So Tony just testified that he brought this problem of not being able to -- not having the data -- not having an accurate database to the attention of the director of IT at OHCD.
And where does he put that -- File 1 is a priority, File 2 or File 3 when I get to it? MS. McCOLLOCH: I don't know where he's put it, but I assure you that after this meeting, I'm going to go find out, after this hearing today. 79 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Sure. I think it's important. MS. McCOLLOCH: I agree.
I listened to your testimony, and it contradicts what you stated to us at a meeting we had this past summer in my office. When I talked to you about being able to do this in a very expeditious manner, you said that we could, and that if -- that's why my employees gave up their whole summer, to go out and get the applicants and get them filled out, the applications, so they could be gotten to you and processed, so you could get your people to deal with them and get the 80 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 inspectors out. And when I asked you -- I said, "I'm worried about these people who need heat." And I said, "How soon would we be able to get heaters to them?" and you told me we would be able to have heaters to them probably by the end of September or the 1st of October. Now, that was in the presence of my staff because I particularly asked you 'cause I told you I was worried with the winter approaching, what was going to happen to the people that really were in need, and you didn't say anything to me about the fiscal year; that is not what you said you. You told me we would have it done before the end of the year, everything. Now, that's what you said. MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct, Councilwoman. (Applause.) MR. MacINTOSH: And at that 81 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 time, we were talking about administering a program with $1.3 million to deliver services before the end of December of that year, of this year. And, Councilwoman, we at PHDC do not have a problem spending $1.3 million over a six-month period of time
We didn't talk about a six-month period of time because I don't have six months. MR. MacINTOSH: All right. With respect to heaters, it is something that we always prioritize at PHDC. And if the funding was available, yes, Councilwoman, we could have made a serious dent in the number of people in need of heaters by September, by October. There is no question, between July and October, if PHDC had funding, we could have addressed the heating needs of the people in your district.
82 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Mr. MacIntosh, I remember distinctively, because I was very disturbed after the hearings, when I realized the miniscule amount, percentage that the 4th Councilmatic District had received, and I told you I knew there were needy people in the 4th Councilmatic District, and I believe you walked me back to the office that day because I was very concerned about it, and that's why I told you I kept thinking about how can these people be helped, and that's when I finally came up and asked if we could move this money from NTI. Now, when I met with you, I told you -- I said, I want to get this done, and I will put my people out there. We will do whatever we have to do to make it possible. My people work from 9 o'clock in the morning till 9 o'clock at night. My people don't get paid overtime. They went out on Saturdays and Sundays because we knew there was a desperate 83 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 need out there among the people and that they needed help. Now, I am very, very disturbed, to put it mildly, that every -- I met with you on many occasions, and you were very helpful, and you told me that we would have this done, because I kept talking to you about the time element. And never once was I told any of this malarky that I am hearing here today, and I have a problem with this.
I was just wondering if there's a response or if you have another question. There's no 20 response? MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm not sure there was a question there.
Well, the discrepancy between what allegedly was told to her and what the current state 84 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 of affairs is. MR. MacINTOSH: Again, I'll reiterate that PHDC has no difficulty in spending $1.3 million. And with respect to that, if funds had have been available and all of the -- there were several things going on.
Let me cut to the chase for a second, and I'll go back to one of my original questions. MR. MacINTOSH: All right.
If the 1.3 for the 4th District had been drawn down from NTI in July, would Mr. MacIntosh have been able to accomplished what he promised Councilwoman Campbell in July -- or in June? MS. McCOLLOCH: Are you asking --
Yeah. MS. McCOLLOCH: He has testified that he could have -- I -- it was my belief that, really, that the 85 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 fink was not what was delaying things. It was the capacity of PHDC to carry out the program. It was carrying out the program. It would have spent this money or it would have spent other money. If it had spent the NTI money in June, the CDBG money wouldn't have been spent. So that it -- the process was moving forward. This gets back to my response to Councilman Goode that I didn't perceive that there was a problem because we were proceeding to implement the Basic Systems Repair Program throughout the summer, and we are continuing to implement it now.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. McIntosh, what does roughly-- 'cause I understand it varies -- a million dollars in BSRP money buy in terms of applications or 86 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 households served? MR. MacINTOSH: If we just used a ballpark figure, recognizing, say, a ballpark average of $10,000 a case, all right, we could do, what, a hundred-plus cases easily with the million dollars.
So you do roughly a hundred a month? MR. MacINTOSH: Um, I would say more, more than a hundred month.
Well, the testimony was that you spent about $12 million on an annual basis. MR. MacINTOSH: Yeah.
I'm using rough numbers. If you spend roughly $12 million a year, and a million dollars buys roughly a hundred applications -- MR. MacINTOSH: Yeah.
-- then you 87 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 do roughly 1200 a year? MR. MacINTOSH: No. Actually, we're well over that, but that's just an average. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
Give me a number. MR. MacINTOSH: We do in excess of 3,000 cases a year.
So if you do 3,000 a year, then you do several hundred a month. MR. MacINTOSH: Yes.
And so going back to my original question and, I guess, statement is, we are ready to go administratively in terms of timeline. So how much can be done, let's say, over the next two months? MR. MacINTOSH: I would say in the neighborhood of at least about 300 cases.
Every time I 88 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 ask for a commitment, the first statement you made was by the end of the fiscal year. MR. MacINTOSH: Right.
Now you can say you can do it quicker. Just now I said, You can do a hundred a month? You say no, we do much more than that. And when I ask about roughly how much a month, you say a few hundred. And so, a hundred a month would actually be 600 over the next two months, not 300. MR. MacINTOSH: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It's, uh... We do about 3,000 a year, all right. And so that's a little over about, what, 200 and --
So that would be about 500 in the next come of 89 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 months. MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct.
Mr. MacIntosh, you kept referring that you had no problem with the 1.3 million; are you telling me that you have a problem with the 2.6 million? MR. MacINTOSH: Within the original time frame, it would really have tested us.
But I discussed it with you before I transferred the money. MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct, Councilwoman.
And told me that if I did it, we would be able to complete what we had to do. MR. MacINTOSH: That I would make it happen for you. 90 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Then why is it a problem now and it wasn't before I moved the money? MR. MacINTOSH: The problem now, Councilwoman -- and I'm going to be quite frank -- is that we're at the end of October, all right? And when we originally began our discussions back in July, I thought originally we would have the 1.3 million and we would have been working off of that. And then with the additional 1.3 million in September, that wouldn't have been an issue as far as our ability to expends those funds and expends them by December of this year.
I know that I particularly talked to you before I moved that money. MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct.
Because I said that we found out there with the residents that there was a greater demand and need than even I could 91 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 comprehend. And I remember saying to you that when I move this money, I know we can't deal with the total demand, but we can make a difference. And I told you, and I know you remember me telling you that I was worried about the seniors that didn't have heat. And I told you, I said, "They're suffering in silence, and I have a problem with this." And I said, "Whatever we have to do, tell me, because we'll do it." Do you remember me telling that you? MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct.
Let me follow up on that. You have, um, you... you have requested $1.3 million in Councilwoman Campbell's district, but you haven't asked for the additional 1.3 million. That hasn't been processed for drawdown? MS. McCOLLOCH: Who are you asking that? Are you asking me? 92 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Somebody. Yeah, I guess you. MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm sorry. The additional 1.3 has not yet been requested for drawdown, no. 7
So that impedes his ability to move the project further; he doesn't have the approval. MS. McCOLLOCH: Of the second 1.3 that --
Right. So that's why he can't do the 2.6 million; he only has the authorization for the 1.3 million, right? MS. McCOLLOCH: Correct.
So when will the other 1.3 million come down? MS. McCOLLOCH: I don't know when it will come down. There's been some discussion that we have been engaged in with Councilwoman Campbell's staff because we don't believe that there's 1.3 available to transfer into the Basic Systems Repair Program. 93 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
I do believe -- Councilwoman Tasco, do you have the papers? I do believe it was Kevin Hanna that told me that I did have the funds and that I could use it. Now, I don't know. Unless my mind is playing games with me, I thought he was over everyone that's here today from your departments. And I would think -- I would assume that he would know what he's talking about when he makes a statement to me. What is the status of the additional $1.3 million that I transferred by resolution of City Council on September 20, 2007? MS. McCOLLOCH: Based on review of expenditures by the Redevelopment Authority on acquisitions, the -- let me just back up so everyone understands -- the additional 1.3 million that was transferred, I believe, by resolution on September 20th -- was that the date of the resolution? That 1.3 was moving an 94 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 additional 1.3 from acquisitions to the Basic Systems Repair Program for the 4th District. Upon review of expenditures by the Redevelopment Authority, where the 1.3 had rested for acquisition, there's not a full 1.3 available to be transferred because some of the funds that have been spent were obligated already.
I'd like to read a letter to you from Mr. Hanna. Who spent the money? Who moved it? MS. McCOLLOCH: I -- who spent it? It was spent by the --
You said the money had been spent. MS. McCOLLOCH: By the Redevelopment Authority as part of the acquisition process, where the money had rested as $1.3 million in acquisitions. Some funds had been spent by the 95 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Redevelopment Authority.
Well, I have a letter here. Dear Mr. Hanna, I am writing to confirm my cancellation of the following acquisitions which we need to progress in the most recent reports I received from your office. Allegheny West, forgotten blocks, $394,530. RHD Carol Park, RFP, $414,640. Mt. Carmel Phase 1, $481,900. I want to receive an accounting of any and all funds expended to date on each of these acquisitions for such line items as appraisal, advertisements, et cetera. I then want to receive a report that contains the remaining balances with each acquisition post-cancellation Now, this was sent July 12th to Mr. Kevin Hanna: Dear Mr. Hanna, I am in receipt of your fax, which enclosed 96 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 your letter of June 4, 2007, with attachments. The attachments are the same that my office already had in its possession and does not meet the requirements I sent forth in my letters to you as of June 8, 2007, and June 20, 2007. 3 millions I transferred in June. I also requested an accounting of any funds that were expended on those acquisitions and the remaining balances after deducting any expenditure. Yesterday, when we spoke, you told me that some of the acquisitions may be too far down the road to cancel. Today, I personally spoke with Michael Koontz, Executive Director of the Redevelopment Authority, who told me that no funds -- no funds -- had been 97 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 expended on those acquisitions and that all he needed was permission from your office to close them out. Based upon your failure to provide the information requested over a month ago and the discussion held yesterday, I have come to the conclusion that there is a deliberate effort on your part or those affiliated with you to stall the cancellation of the acquisitions and, thereby, thwart any effort on my part to reprogram these funds to meet needs of the low-income and elderly households in the 4th Council District. I have attempted to engage in positive and constructive relationship. However, the lack of responsiveness and the conflicting information I have been provided is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. I was elected to City Council to serve the more than 150,000 residents of the 4th Council District 98 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 and especially to give voice to those residents who at least are unable to articulate their needs. I will not stand by and let them be denied this precious resource because the bureaucracy feels that they know the needs of my district better than I do. I expect a written response, including the information I requested in all of my previous correspondence to you by the close of business Monday, July 16, 2007. If not received, I will engage Council to secure the information. Carbon copy to Mayor John F. Street; Council President Anna C. Verna; Council Majority Leader Jannie L. Blackwell; Council Majority Whip Marian Tasco; Councilman Darrell Clarke; Councilman Danny Savage; Councilwoman Donna Reed-Miller; Council Minority Leader Brian J. O'Neill, Managing Director Laurie Jones; Eva Gladstein, Director of Neighborhood 99 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Transformation; Deborah McColloch, Director of OHCD; Anthony MacIntosh, Executive Vice President, PHDC; Michael Koontz, Executive Director, RDA; Herb Wetzel, Executive Director of Housing and Community Development, City Council. Now, the money was moved June 20th by a unanimous vote in Council. Why did it take just till last week for me to learn that there was any problem when you know that we had elderly people that were in desperate need of help? And if there was a problem, you should have told me immediately. Why would you let us give these people false hope if you knew something was wrong? Although I have been verbally told everything was fine and the money would be put in a contract immediately. Then I was told it was four to six weeks.
Then Kevin Hanna called me and told me it was -- he thought both 100 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 monies were under contract. " Now, how could there be confusion about that? MS. McCOLLOCH: I can't speak to why Kevin was confused.
I just have a question. Where is Mr. Hanna? MS. McCOLLOCH: He is out of town today; that's why I'm here today. He's at a conference --
Ms. McColloch, I have a spreadsheet here that was received from OHCD on September 16th, it looks like, or 10th. And it shows that no expenditures were made, none. Now, this is September 10th. So in your department, is it a custom to send out incorrect information? 101 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 MS. McCOLLOCH: It certainly is not a custom to, and I can only apologize that that information was incorrect.
Then what you're really telling me is that it's just total incompetence over there. Because there's no way in the world, with the salaries that they pay over there, that they should send out something that's erroneous. (Applause.)
We're talking about people's lives here. We're taking about people who don't have heat, people who don't have roofs that work. This is despicable. You really, really need to look at your department and yourselves for this kind of behavior with these needy people. (Applause.)
There was one request. Ms. Gladstein has a 102 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 prescheduled meeting with the Mayor and wants to come back in 45 minutes if possible.
Before you leave, along that line, this spreadsheet I have: NTI 4th City Council District Acquisition Status report, did that come from you or was that our staff report?
So we got this information, and it does have the balance that there's no acquisition that's been done and it says that the project was cancelled per Miss Campbell. You're saying this report is incorrect? MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm saying that report is incorrect, yes.
Who appropriated the funds for these three acquisitions? 103 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 MS. McCOLLOCH: They were approved previously. Through Council ordinance, they were approved previously.
What Councilmember introduced them? MS. McCOLLOCH: Councilman Nutter.
And this was when? MS. McCOLLOCH: They were a part of the acquisitions that were approved under the NTI Program previously.
Well, I have some stuff that was approved too, but we haven't moved it. So are you going to say just because we approved it in a general acquisition process that you just -- you just move it without coming to the Council to make sure that it, you know, you really want to go 104 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 through with it?
Councilwoman Tasco, it was only ordinance, only one ordinance. We're talking about three different -- three different acquisitions here.
You know, I'm not in Miss Campbell's business; that's for her to decide. I'm just asking for process in terms of how this all works. MS. McCOLLOCH: They were approved, and the Redevelopment Authority moved forward with the acquisitions of the specific properties, that there are specific properties attached to the titles of each of those.
When did they move forward with that? MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm sorry. I don't know the exact date. Let me see if Michael is here.
With your permission, I will leave and return by 105 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 12:30.
Ms. Gladstein, I don't have a copy of the resolution approved in June 20th -- June 14th before me. I'm sure you're probably familiar with it. Did the resolution take the money from some specific source or project to be allocated toward --
It took from a specific line item but not from specific projects.
So does the money exist or does it not exist? If you didn't take it from specific projects, then what difference does it make if money was spent on those 106 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 projects?
Does money still exist in that line item? And I don't care if there was an arrangement that money would be taken from specific projects. If a Council resolution took money from a line item --
Okay. At the time, on June 14th, there were adequate funds in that line item for the first transfer.
What about 107 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 September 20th?
September 20th, I rely upon reports created by the Office of Housing with information from the Redevelopment Authority, and so I've seen the same reports that the Councilwoman has seen --
I'm not talking about the report. I have the report here. I'm not talking about the report; I'm asking bow the line item.
If a Council resolution approved a transfer of money from one line item to another purpose, I'm not asking about whether the money was spent on projets that were supposed to be associated with the line item but whether the money still exists under that line item.
I'm not trying to -- the way our budget reads, the line item is not -- is in terms of remaining 108 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 funds. It's not split by Council District in the Program Statement, but there was money in the -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
So there's still money under the line item from which it was transferred.
So Council's action on both June 14th and on September 20th transferred money from a line item to a program, 1.3 and 1.3, and the money is still available in that line item.
It transferred money from the acquisition line item to the Basic Systems Repair Program line item, and there were --
However, if there are additional expenses against 109 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 that line item, we may not have the resources to cover them. But at that point in time, there was money sitting in that line item. I can't say if there was --
I'm asking about the point at which Council approved. On both June 14th and September 20th, Council transferred money from a line item to the BSRP Program. In both cases, was the money there?
In both cases, that amount of money was available in the acquisition line item.
Just a moment, please. You know, I moved this money and relied upon the word of your departments that the money was there. And this appears to me definitely -- I'm not an attorney, but it definitely looks like (indiscernible) lines to me. Now, I want to read something 110 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 to you: For any fiscal year during which bond proceeds will be expended, the Mayor, or his appointed designee, and the RDA at least 60 days before the beginning of each fiscal year shall submit to City Council for the approval by resolution an annual Program Statement and Budget setting forth proposed form expenditures of bond proceeds for the upcoming fiscal year in substantially the form and detail attached hereto as Exhibit B. Any expenditure of bond proceeds must be in accordance with the NTI framework attached as Exhibit A to the service agreement, including the City Council oversight provisions set forth in Section 8 of the NTI framework (City Council oversight of the NTI bond program) and is in accordance with a current or previously-approved annual budget. At least 90 days before the beginning of each fiscal year, the 111 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Mayor, or his appointed designee, shall send to each member of Council an preliminary annual program statement and budget in the same detail that will be contained in approval of Council. Such budget shall provide for a City Council development consultant appointed by the majority of City Council by resolution. The expenditure of funds from sources other than the bond proceeds set forth in the Program Statement and Budget are not subject to Council approval but shall be included for informational purposes. Such other sources of funds may include, but are not limited to, Community Development Block Grants and Federal Public Housing Funds. After it is approved, the annual Program Statement and Budget may be amended only with the approval of Council by resolution.
Yes, that's a 112 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 correct reading, and we did submit a proposed Program Statement and Budget in April. And then we -- and we shared it with members of City Council. And then we submitted another one in May, which was introduced into City Council; that's a Program Statement and Budget, which was then amended by Council during the Council discussions and then approved by 070405-A, as amended, on June 14th. That's correct.
But also, do you see the section 15 (indiscernible). Bear with me on this. There is a section that says pretty much that anything can be changed by a resolution passed by City Council; is that correct?
So long as it is consistent with the ordinance and the framework that's cited in the statement you just made.
Point of information. 113 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. Gladstein, I understand you have to leave. You would not have approved the drawdown on September 13th, and you would not have approved the drawdown on October 3rd if the money wasn't still there in the line item.
So the money was there when you approved it on September 13th and when you approved it on October 3rd.
In addition, there's been a subsequent appropriation of an additional 1.3 million, which was approved by City Council on September 20th.
You approved the drawdown on October 3rd after City 114 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Council approved another 1.3. When you approved the drawdown, did you not then look at how much money was left per the September 20th resolution as well?
You approved the first 1.3 -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
-- on October 3rd, after Council approved the second 1.3.
So when you approved the first 1.3, did you look to see how much money was left there, knowing that Council approved the second 1.3?
I did look to see, and I saw that there was 115 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 approximately -- it was between 1.3 and 1.4.
So when you approved the first drawdown of 1.3 on October 3rd, the second 1.3 connected to Council's second authorization on September 20th was there.
Yes. I was unaware as to the fact that some funds had already been spent on some of these projects.
But the money was still there when you approved the first 1.3.
Would you show us some documentation that shows us where the funds were expended?
I would have to 116 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 ask the Office of Housing. (Witness comes forward.)
Councilwoman Campbell, my name is Michael Koontz, Executive Director of the Redevelopment Authority. I can show you the documentation for the approximate $180,000 that was expended in part. I believe the Allegheny West properties and the three or four properties that were acquired RHD.
But, Mr. Koontz, you and I have talked repeatedly, and you were the one that assured me that there were no 20 expenditures. I even spoke to you as late as about a week and a half to two weeks ago, and you never told me that there was a problem; you told me that there definitely were no fund expended.
And until last 117 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Thursday night, I didn't know that the Allegheny West properties or the RHD properties had been acquired; I did not know that.
You're the executive director and you didn't know that they had been acquired?
We acquire 2 or 3,000 properties per year. I did not know that these properties had been acquired.
The board approved -- I believe there were two declarations of takings that were 118 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 approved. One was approved in 2006, the spring of 2006; and one was approved earlier this spring, March or April.
But you told me you checked, Mr. Koontz, because I particularly relied upon the --
I looked at the list, the same list that was forwarded to OHCD, and I saw zero. I believe that none had been acquired, and so I told you that none had been acquired.
Well, Mr. Koontz, I don't believe that my needy residents should suffer because of either incompetence or ignorance; I don't think that's fair at all. It's not their fault that we were given erroneous information. (No response.)
I just find this very hard to believe because I know I spoke to you on numerous occasions about this, 'cause I do not believe in giving people false hope. 119 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 And I kept asking you and I kept asking Kevin Hanna, and I was told that there were no funds expended, and then all of a sudden -- and then when did they decide that they were going to tell me? I didn't learn about any of this until after I put the resolution 9 in for this body to meet to have an investigation. No one had come to me about any of this. Only after the resolution was passed by Council to have this investigation did someone tell me something.
Until I checked each and every property in all of your projects Thursday night myself, I did not know until then.
No. I told you that... no properties had been acquired on these three projects. I didn't tell you I had checked; I told you --
If I 120 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 don't have anything else, I have a very good memory. I remember distinctly calling you, and you told me, "Let me get back to you." And you did get back to me within a couple of days, and you told me that I could go ahead because there were no funds.
Right. And I looked at the records. When I first told you I didn't think any had been acquired, I hadn't looked at the records; that was in your office. Later on that evening or the next day -- I'm not exactly sure when -- I went back and checked our records, and our records did indicate at that time that none were acquired. In fact, our records indicated, until I changed them last Thursday night, when I looked up each individual property, that none had been acquired.
Well, tell me this. You know, I get updates 121 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 on the properties that are owned by Redevelopment in my district, and I've never seen any of these addresses on the latest one that I got as late as a week ago. Now, why aren't they on the list?
I asked for an update for all properties that were owned by the Redevelopment Authority in the 4th Councilmatic District, and the last time I asked was about a week and a half ago. And when we got the list, I didn't see any of these properties, because I know some of the properties that are allegedly involved, and I didn't see them on the list.
I -- I only remember giving out a list of Party A owned properties for the 4th District many, many months ago.
No, I got one from John Coates a week and a 122 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 half ago. I even called him to talk to him about a couple places on there.
I would just like to follow up a question. Ms. McColloch, you said that these acquisitions were approved by Councilman Nutter in 2006?
Right. One of them was a Council ordinance; that was the Mt. Carmel project. Inside the ordinance itself, along with the approval to acquire the properties, are 123 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 words to the effect that Council also approves the expenditure of NTI dollars for those properties.
For the Mt. Carmel properties. The other two projects -- the Allegheny West and the Mt. Carmel -- those were taken by administrative process and did not come to Council, commonly referred to as Act 94. Typically on those, we send a resolution to Council before we go to our board requesting permission to acquire those properties. It's my understanding that we did that for both the Allegheny West and the few for RHD. I don't have it with me, but I can certainly find it. And if we didn't do it, you know, I'll so inform you, but it's my understanding that we did.
Would 124 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 you please give us copies of the resolutions.
Just for a frame of reference: During period of time when the properties were acquired by the RDA, who was the Councilman in the 4th District?
Um, Councilwoman Campbell would have been the Councilperson for the majority of them, the ones that were this spring. And I'm not exactly sure at what point in 2006 --
No, I'm talking about the three that she's concerned about. I assume that there's three that you're -- Councilwoman Campbell, there's three that --
There are only two that have been acquired, properties in 125 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Mt. Carmel and prop -- I mean properties in the RHD Carol Park project and some properties in the Allegheny West project.
This summer, I had to sit -- in fact, it was the spring, I had to speak to Mr. Koontz about the Mt. Carmel project because they had not at that time acquired anything according to Reverend Campbell. And I called Mr. Koontz because there were some things I really didn't understand because they had told me from this group that they were being forced to work with some properties that they didn't want, and they were told that they would have to do these properties before they could get the properties that they really wanted. And then when I started questioning about it, I had Mr. Koontz 126 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 on the phone, I was told that they didn't feel that Councilman Nutter at the time wanted to expend that large amount of money for what Mt. Carmel really wanted to do. Now, this is according to the group that came before me -- they had to do these houses that they really didn't want to do. Now, Mr. Koontz, do you remember me talking to you about ha?
I remember that the discussion was why we didn't take all of the -- or we didn't include all of -- first of all, none of the Mt. Carmel properties have been taken. As far as the discussions we had, my memory of that discussion is that I said that the project budget, originally when it was first sent to the City, was larger. It included occupied properties and vacant properties. And that the occupied properties, both because of the dollar-amount and the fact that there 127 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 was -- the number of them were taken out of the development, it was decided that maybe they would be acquired later or maybe not at all. But we were just asked to proceed with the vacant properties at that time.
But when Mt. Carmel came to meet with me, I called you while they were there. And at that time, I was told that nothing done, because I was rather surprised. I called you while they were sitting there.
And I've said before that those properties -- I did not know about that until last Thursday night, and I apologize for that.
I just want to get my question answered, which was: If Mt. Carmel didn't get acquired but 128 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 the other two project properties were acquired to facilitate those projects, who was the Councilperson at the time?
For the Allegheny West, the eight that were acquired, Councilwoman Campbell was --
Was Councilman Nutter in office then? 129 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Mr. Chairman, what I find very strange about this is: June the 8th, I wrote and requested detailed information about this very situation. And I was assured when I followed with the phone call that nothing had happened. I sent the letter June 8th and asked for a detailed written report.
Okay. So who -- I guess on the second set of properties, who would have communicated the information from the 4th District if it weren't -- if Councilman Nutter was running for mayor and Councilwoman Campbell wasn't in office yet? Would there have been some conversation with the 4th District office?
There weren't any, okay. Thank you. Councilwoman Tasco? 130 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Let me just -- Ms. Gladstein is not here, but let me just get some facts. When she submitted the '07-'08 NTI Program and Budget, which we passed June 14th, in the -- she stated, I believe, before she left that the money was in that program that we passed, the 1.3 million was there. So where did the breakdown come? And not from '06 to June '07. Where did the breakdown come in terms of what was real and what wasn't real? And can we rely on the process being correct, anyway? I mean, we were -- Councilwoman Campbell believed, and she stated, that in the program that there was $1.3 million. And so, therefore, she transferred the money. She did the first 1.3 and then she did the other 1.3. But why didn't these dollars that were appropriated or spent to acquire these properties not deleted 131 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 from the acquisition budget? Where does that breakdown come? MS. McCOLLOCH: If I understand the question correctly, I believe the breakdown is that the RDA expends funds and then they are drawn down. So in this case, an --
Well, wouldn't you have had an approval, just like you took to November, to give the approval on the $1.3 million of NTI dollars? So we know that they're not there, so next year, we won't get another NTI budget, so we know it's not there. But if there is -- if you encumber the funds, you know that we have taken so much money out of NTI for various projects, so when the budget comes through, it's less all that -- all those projects. So what happened to the appropriation or the encumbrance of these dollars in the '07-'08 budget, 132 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 and why did it appear in those budgets that there existed additional money for acquisition? MS. McCOLLOCH: The first -- if I can characterize it, the first 1.3, the 1.3 million from June, everyone has agreed those -- which in the case of the 4th District came 900,000 from the acquisition line and 500,000 from the vacant property stabilization line. Everyone has agreed that there were no 13 ties on that money, if that's the correct term, that there were no 15 commitments against those funds. So that 1.3 was moved by resolution. That's the 1.3 that's in the document that you have.
Mm-hmm. MS. McCOLLOCH: That I signed on September 13th and Eva signed on October 3rd. So that 1.3, the funds have been moved and are now moved out of acquisition and vacant property 133 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 stabilization and into 4th District BSRP. The second 1.3, the 1.3 of September 20th, is the one that is at question because when -- at the time -- and I was one of the people that was raising it. I said, Are we sure that we haven't spent some of this money? because I think that we have had expenditures because this process has been going on for sometime in terms of when you initiate the process to acquire properties. And my other question was: Have we already had made commitments or authorizations that we can't pull back from? Are we already committed to acquire certain properties? Even if we haven't spent the money, have we taken actions that --
Point of information. MS. McCOLLOCH: -- lead us to having to spend the money because 134 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 they've been spent? And that's when there was additional research --
Point of information. MS. McCOLLOCH: -- and this is what Michael --
Ms. McColloch, I think I heard you say a couple of minutes ago that the Redevelopment Authority can spend money without a drawdown. Did you actually say that? MS. McCOLLOCH: The Redevelopment Authority has capital that it spends, and then it would spend the money and then it would be drawn down from the NTI.
And then if you choose so, you can go back and charge it back to that; is what you're saying? MS. McCOLLOCH: It would be 135 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 charged back to the account to which it should be, yes.
So you're saying that in the case of Redevelopment Authority or OHCD, you can just spend money without an NTI drawdown and then charge it back to the NTI drawdown later on; is that what you're saying? MS. McCOLLOCH: Based on an authorization, yes.
Based -- MS. McCOLLOCH: In other words, it's a cash issue.
But how can you go back and charge it back to NTI funds if there's no NTI drawdown? MS. McCOLLOCH: You couldn't charge it back to NTI funds until there is an NTI drawdown.
Okay. Well, at the point at which Eva Gladstein signed a drawdown for the first 1.3 on October 3rd -- MS. McCOLLOCH: Mm-hmm. 136 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
-- she just testified before she left that the second 1.3 was there. That's what she said. MS. McCOLLOCH: (Nods head.)
So if it was there and she's the director of NTI and the money was there, the fact that someone else spent money before the NTI -- before an NTI drawdown was actually authorized goes against procedure unless you create your own procedure. MS. McCOLLOCH: No, we don't create our own procedures.
Well, the point at which the director of NTI authorized the first 1.3, she said the second 1.3 was there because when she authorized the first 1.3, it was after we approved the second 1.3. And that's very clear. MS. McCOLLOCH: The Redevelopment Authority may have had expenses based on the previous 137 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 resolution that committed the 1.3 to acquisition, that it has expended funds -- an example is the advertising costs or the appraisals or what have you. In this case, it's actually some actual acquisition costs, if I understand Michael as testimony correctly that had not yet been drawn down against the NTI funds, although the RDA, if you will, advanced the funds to -- for those expenditures based on the previous approvals of those three acquisition packages.
So, Ms. McColloch, what you're saying is that the RDA incurs any expenses based upon past resolutions that City Council has authorized that they can spend money however they want and then just charge it back to a future NTI drawdown, and that could actually affect not only the program in the 4th District but in the 7th District or in the 9th District.
Right, 138 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 'cause they're going to take my money, the $1.1 million, take out those seven houses, which I don't even know if they're in my district, and then charge it against the one million when these people were already on the list and should have been in the original Basic Systems Repair Program, 'cause they just haven't -- they just got this money, right? MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm sorry. I'm trying to follow two different questions.
It's the same question, whether you can spend money however you want and then charge it back to NTI drawdown. MS. McCOLLOCH: If it's been authorized. The 1.3 of acquisition expenses had been previously authorized, and so the Redevelopment Authority was moving forward with those acquisitions. 139 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 And in the moving forward with those acquisitions, it incurred some expenses.
What expenses were they charged to the 1.3? You mean the 1.3 that Councilwoman Campbell put in in June? She asked for a 1.3 million authorization for a Basic Systems Repair Program, and then the Redevelopment Authority used the resolution to use to spend on some other project and then you're going to put it back and all that stuff? MS. McCOLLOCH: No. 17
I think what she's saying, or what she's trying to say, is that the Redevelopment Authority does things like, before there's a Council hearing or a Council ordinance, we have to advertise for three consecutive weeks, for example; that's probably like or $30,000. We have to advertise the 25 bills. And we order title reports and 140 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 appraisals before there's actual approvals to acquire the properties. I think those are the types of charges she was speaking of.
At what point does that get documented as money that has been spent or incurred or encumbered? (No response.)
I mean, the point at which Eva Gladstein is authorizing the first 1.3. And obviously, if you're authorizing 1.3, you want to see if 1.3 is there. And obviously, if you authorize the 1.3, at a point where you know that another 1.3 has already been authorized by City Council, you're actually checking to see how much money is there total.
We actually -- when the NTI Program was first approved, there was an allocation to the Redevelopment Authority, or approval was granted for the Redevelopment Authority 141 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 to draw down X-amounts of dollars, and those dollars, I believe, were to be used for things like advertising, title reports, appraisals, prior to actually getting the approvals.
Mr. Koontz, do you know whether or not the 1.3 that Council authorized in June and the 1.3 that Council authorized in September were taken from a line item that you're supposed to be charging against?
Mr. Koontz and Ms. McColloch, could you please tell me -- I sent a letter where I stipulated that I wanted no funds expended. Would you tell me whether or not any of these acquisitions were done after my letter was received?
None of the acquisitions were done after your letter was received. None of the acquisitions 142 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 were done after you and I spoke originally.
I would like to see the resolutions too because my understanding was two of the properties were under Act 94; they were not ordinance. Only one was ordinance.
That's true. As a matter of fact, for the properties that were in the ordinance, none of them have been acquired. There have been properties acquired in the Act 94, the two Act 94 projects -- Allegheny West and RHD Carol Park. They were acquired around March of this year, I believe, and I believe a couple were acquired last year.
Isn't it customary to notify the District Councilperson when something like that occurs?
When -- is it customary to notify a District Councilperson -- 143 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
-- when the RDA acquires properties on their behalf; is that the question?
Well, it wasn't on my behalf. It was done before I got there.
Even though I had called repeatedly because I knew I was a neophyte and I kept questioning about the status of everything in the district.
Ms. McColloch, I had both -- before September 20th, I had verbal and written confirmation that no funds were expended for the acquisitions I cancelled. Having reached out to the residents of 144 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 the 4th Council District and hearing the many stories my staff had told me about the problems of low-income, elderly, and disabled homeowners who came and applied under the 4th District Council Basic Systems Repair Program, I decided to prepare a Council resolution and move another $1.3 million from the NTI 4th District acquisition budget to the NTI 4th District Basic Systems Repair. That resolution was introduced on September 20, 2007, and was unanimously approved by this body. Now, over four months since I first requested documentation regarding these acquisitions, you come to me to tell me that my resolution cannot be carried out because I cannot cancel the acquisitions and that you have spent funds on these acquisitions -- all contrary to what your office and the RDA told me. Mr. Hanna comes and meets with me and tells me that it cannot be done 145 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 because City Council already approved these acquisitions by ordinance. Then I find out that two out of three had not been approved by ordinance. Why suddenly, after four months of requesting data on these acquisitions, does the data suddenly appear? I believe there was and is a deliberate effort being conducted by members of this administration to thwart my attempts to serve the residents of the 4th Council District. If it is not deliberate, then the level of incompetence at the highest levels within OHCD is beyond my imagination. Ms. McColloch, I may not be a lawyer, but I know detrimental reliance when I see it. I exercise my right under the ordinance that created NTI, and I rely on information provided by OHCD and RDA to move NTI funds to a program that homeowners in my district need and deserve. If there is a problem, it is 146 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 of your creation and you need to solve it. I will not accept one dime less than the $1.3 million that those under your supervision told me was available. I cannot, and will not, let you or anyone else stand in the way of the needs of my constituents. (Applause.)
Are there any other questions or comments for these witnesses? Councilwoman Tasco?
I request that I get a list of the seven houses or properties that were done in my district. I request when they were approved, and I request when they were completed and the amount used for completion and all of the documentations associated with that.
Yes. I would like to say a copy of any 147 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 resolutions that are pertinent to the information that I was given today under testimony. I want to see all data, all records. And, Mr. Chairman, I think that it would only be right for us to issue a subpoena for Mr. Hanna because we need to get him here to answer some questions for us.
Mr. Hanna did call me Saturday and say that he was going to be in North Carolina or South Carolina until Sunday night, but this morning, he was coming back, he would be back Sunday night and would be flying out this morning to San Francisco.
You spoke About Act 94. Could you explain what 148 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 that, please, what Act 94 -- what powers it gives the RDA.
The difference between Act 94 and the urban renewal process that requires an ordinance is that all of the approvals are administrative. The properties have to be -- by policy, have to be blighted and vacant. "Blighted" has been taken to mean vacant and tax-delinquent, similar to the sheriff's sale process in that typically two years, there's more than, you know, 800 or $1,000 worth of delinquency.
You can acquire them administratively. Do you have to come to Council to dispose of them?
But if 149 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 they're not in a Redevelopment area --
So if they're not in a Redevelopment area, you can dispose of them based on the authority of the board of RDA?
No. They're both under the State Eminent Domain Code, but it's just the one process can be done administratively as long as the Revenue Department and the L&I Department certify the blight and the tax delinquency, and as long as City Planning and the Vacant Property Review Committee certify --
So it does go through the Vacant Property Review Committee.
Okay, all 150 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 right. That's what I wasn't sure of, okay. Thank you very much.
I would like to request a copy of the resolution. I see you have listed Daguette Street as an expenditure, and I would like to have a copy of the resolution that authorized that. MS. McCOLLOCH: I don't believe we have anything with us. We don't have any documents today to provide to you, but we can provide the information -- the other resolutions. There is no resolution for Daguette Street. Daguette Street I can provide to you a copy of a letter -- two letters, which I was going to do in response to your letter to Mr. Hanna, a letter from then-Councilman Nutter directing us to use $250,000 of the 4th District NTI acquisition budget, and then a letter from me to Herb Wetzel, then-Director of Redevelopment 151 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Authority, directing the RDA to carry that out. And as part of that, it's the RDA's responsibility to prepare the resolution. So if the RDA never prepared the resolution, I would not have known about that, but I can provide both of those documents to you to show why, from my point of view, I believe that the $250,000 was being charged to the acquisition budget.
Well, my understanding was that no property could be acquired without a resolution. MS. McCOLLOCH: I understand that. All I'm saying to you is that the responsibility to prepare those resolutions is carried out by the RA. And so the documents that I have, which I was presenting to you to show why, from my point of view, the $250,000 was to come from the NTI acquisition budget for the 4th District, was the original letter from then-Councilman Nutter and 152 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 my letter to Herb Wetzel, then-Director of the Redevelopment Authority, to carry this out.
But it wasn't a resolution. MS. McCOLLOCH: But it was the RDA's responsibility to prepare that resolution.
But that's not my fault. MS. McCOLLOCH: I didn't say --
Well, I'm just saying. MS. McCOLLOCH: I understand that. I'm simply saying to you why I had the information. You questioned why I had information that there was $250,000 --
No, I didn't question; I asked you for the resolution that authorized it. There's a difference. MS. McCOLLOCH: Okay.
153 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Mr. Koontz, let me just go back because Derek Green reminded me of something. In the NTI ordinance, it says that all properties have to come back -- disposition of properties that are acquired or disposed of through NTI dollars have to come back to Council. Do they fall under Act 94? Because in the ordinance, as he explained to me, NTI action has to come back to City Council.
Where is it? Here it is. It says: No real estate, or any interest in any real estate, shall be acquired with the proceeds of any bonds until the Mayor shall have submitted to City Council and City Council shall have approved by 154 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 resolution a land bank management program unless City Council shall have specifically approved such acquisition by resolution or ordinance.
No, I thought you were speaking of disposition. I'm well aware that no properties are to be acquired without a resolution of Council. I -- I'm sorry. When I originally spoke, I thought you were meaning properties being disposed of without Council approval.
Right, but if we're using NTI dollars to acquire the properties --
-- I understand that we need a resolution from City Council to approve the acquisition, but we don't necessarily need a resolution 25 from City Council for the disposition. 155 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
So if you acquire a property -- if I ask for you to acquire a property in my district with NTI funds, you can -- you will acquire it, right?
So if you want to dispose of it, you can just dispose of it without Council's resolution or input?
Traditionally, we wouldn't dispose of it without City Council's input, but I wasn't aware of anything that said we needed a Council resolution to dispose, unless it was in --
No, this is under Act 94, you're talking about blighted properties, right? 156 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
So if a property is not blighted, we ask you to acquire it, and we ask you to acquire it. And then you can dispose of it -- it's not a blighted property, but it's a property in the 9th Councilmatic District, and I ask you to use NTI proceeds to acquire this property, do I have any say in how we dispose of that property?
We typically request input from staff before we dispose of any property, from the staff of the appropriate Council District. But I didn't know if -- I didn't know that the law required that there be a resolution of Council to dispose of that property.
Okay. Any other questions for these witnesses? 157 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 (No further questions.)
That's it. We're now -- well, so that everybody in the room knows, what we're doing now is, we're trying to acquire a new date certain for another hearing. When we recess this hearing, we're permitted to do it to a date certain without advertising, so we're intending on developing the legal requirements to get Mr. Hanna here for the next hearing. If there are people here who would rather wait to testify at the next hearing, we welcome you to do that. If there are people here who want to testify now, you're also welcome to do that. But we'll be having another hearing on a date certain, and you will know this before we recess this hearing. I think we're through. I don't know whether or not -- UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can I ask a question? 158 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Why don't we just take a short recess now until we get a date and then you can ask a question. (Short break taken.) * * * (Proceedings resume.)
We are going to recess the hearing to a date certain, which is November 27th, at 10 a.m. in this room, at which time we will hope to have had the legal documents necessary to get Mr. Hanna here. Hopefully, he will agree to come and testify voluntarily without the subpoena, but we'll prepare it anyway. In the meantime -- and, councilwoman Campbell, you can comment -- I believe there may be some commitment from OHCD and BSRP to try to move some of the stuff quicker than they've been moving it because the heating season is coming up, and there's people who need heaters and 159 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 things like that. So I don't know whether or not you guys want to come back, Deborah and (indiscernible) and maybe talk about how we can try to resolve the immediate problem of the people that are sitting in the room.
We all have some witnesses here that have come here since early this morning.
Yeah, yeah, I understand. But there were also some people that they had diabetes issues and they needed to eat and get some medicine, so...
Could you come back, please, and kind of talk about what it is you can do practically now to help resolve some of these problems for the people that are represented by Councilwoman Campbell. (Witnesses return to witness table.) 160 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Identify yourself for the record, whoever is going to speak. Just re-identify yourself for the stenographer. MR. MacINTOSH: Anthony MacIntosh, Executive Vice President for Philadelphia Housing Development Corporation. As of this date, Councilwoman, we have 34 cases that have been approved. I am prepared to move forward with assignments this week on the first 34, and we will move forward as expeditiously as possible to move through the next set. As I indicated, we had a special intake session this past Saturday, where close to 200 people were scheduled to come out, so we can and will begin to move forward as expeditiously as possible.
What does that mean in numbers? MR. MacINTOSH: With respect 161 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 to -- as I indicated, the first 34 should go out this week. And each week thereafter, we should have a similar number to be assigned a contract.
The first 34? What should go out, the contracts? MR. MacINTOSH: Yes, the assigned contractors, that's correct.
Tell me this, please. I had raised the issue to you about an 86-year-old woman who had called my office, and she couldn't touch her walls because her walls were so hot because of electrical wires. In this 34, how many of them are dangerous situations; do you know? MR. MacINTOSH: What we will be doing is using the criteria that has been recommended that I shared with your staff last week, and we would be moving forward with that criteria. With respect to the lady with the hot wall, Miss Bessie McCloud, as 162 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 soon as you brought that to my attention, I had an inspector dispatched immediately. He went out to the property and what was determined was that there was a dimmer switch that the lady was using. And when you use dimmer switches, a lot of times when the light is not on the full capacity, the load is maintained at the switch, and she had an old switch, but there is no fire hazard.
Can I also suggest that maybe you try to prioritize the work as it relates to the need for heating? Because, I mean, today is probably the day we start to get shocked back into the fact that it's fall and coming towards winter. And there was also one lady in the audience who said that they had come to her house and started to work, 163 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 dug up her basement, exposed all her pipes, and then were pulled off the job. So could you try to look at things like that to try to make people whole again? 'cause their houses are kind of ripped apart, some of them. MR. MacINTOSH: Absolutely, Councilman.
And that commitment you're making for the record. MR. MacINTOSH: Yes, that's correct.
Thank you. Who is left in the audience who wants to testify? I see one, two -- why don't I bring up these three ladies here as one panel. They're going to stay. And then we'll bring up the three more on this side, okay? (Witnesses come forward.)
First, thank you for coming and thank you for your patience. There were a lot of things to hash out with the officials 164 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 here, and we appreciate your patience. You have to pull those microphones close to you because they're old. And please identify yourself for the record.
My name is Darnell Helen. I live in the 4th Ward, 1st District. I went down Saturday to be interviewed for the program, and the woman that took my application, she didn't go on the computer system once. I didn't have the documentation with me but it was in the system. She never once went into the system to retrieve my information. My copy of the deed was in there. My SSI information was in there. And she told me that I would have to go gather these documents and bring 'em back when all she had to do was turn on her computer and get 'em. So they gave me an envelope and told me to come back. I don't think that I should have to go back 165 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 down there. They call people in at the last minute to gather -- to say that they're doing these applications when they're not completing the applications once you get down there.
I would request that Mr. MacIntosh take notes for these properties so that we can address the problems directly. And he has -- so he is -- Mr. MacIntosh here will be taking the information and will make sure you get an answer on whether or not you have to get those documents or not.
They told me that they were up on the 20th floor through the orientation. And when I got back there, they told me that I wouldn't need 'em, but when I got back there, the girl that was waiting on me, she didn't complete the application.
Well, now he has your information and will go get you an answer. 166 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Please identify yourself for the record.
My name is Diane Archer. PHDC came out to my house in 1997. They granted me $27,000 to get the work done on my property. I had structural done on a house that I bought from HUD. The structural damage was on the house when I bought it. Nothing was on my Licenses and Inspections paper pertaining to structural damage, so I went to PHDC to try to see if I could get this problem resolved. Okay, they came out with all the different documents telling me what I qualify for and everything. I had to pay for engineers to come out and look at the property. They came out, they dug up my basement to put plumbing work in. All of a sudden, they were called off of the property. My basement is still left in deray [sic] with the piping, the hole. 167 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Now the wall is in worse shape than it was before they came out and dug up that outer wall. My house is getting ready to fall. So I went and got an engineer to come out in 2006 so that they can write up a report about the damages that's been done to my home. I am in desperate need of repairs to this house that I bought from HUD. They never should have sold this house in this shape. And every place I've been -- I just took out a loan, trying to get work done. I wasn't trying to get anything for free. I went to Neighborhood Housing. Neighborhood Housing had me put in for a loan. I qualified for the loan. I talked to Neighborhood Housing last week; I no 22 longer qualify for the loan because I don't have enough money for all the damage that this house have. And I need some help. 168 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Make sure that you leave the address and all the information. I guess the best clearinghouse is Councilwoman Campbell's office.
I've been fighting this every since I bought this home. Years go by and they say, Okay, you qualify for a program. You have to wait till they get the engineers to come out, and years and years and years go by. I come back and file for another program. Then they told me they lost my paperwork. I have all of the names of the people that I've talked to dealing with this problem with this house. I have everything documented right here. 169 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 I have the plumber that came out and worked on my house and dug my house up. They left my house just that way. My house is getting ready to fall. It needs to be tore down.
When you said the plumber came out, was it someone that PHDC sent out.
And they have not come back to look at what they've done or anything?
No, ma'am. Every 170 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 time I call somebody, they send me to somebody else. I spoke to this gentleman right here; he sent me to somebody else. I've been floating around all this time. Nobody wants to hear from me.
Mr. MacIntosh, can we maybe get this problem solved? MR. MacINTOSH: Let me look into it.
Could you look into it and get back to us. MR. MacINTOSH: Yes, sir.
The question comes down to who's monitoring the contractors?
As the chair of this committee, since it's not in Councilwoman Campbell's district, it is in Councilwoman Blackwell's district, I would strongly request that you get back to me as the chair of the committee to tell me what you've doing to solve 171 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 that problem. MR. MacINTOSH: Very good.
Thank you. We'll stay on it. Ma'am, please identify yourself for the record.
My name is Josephine Simmons. I'm here to represent my mother, Marie Simmons, who has cancer, she had a stroke, and they found a brain tumor all within the space of two years. And she has seizure disorder so it's hard for her to get around. I have a spinal cord injury, and I have sarcoidosis so I'm not in the greatest shape, but I barter and trade to get things done that she needs done. She's got exposed wires in her house. She was the first one to move on Cambridge Street back in the '50s, and she's been in that house ever since. It's a gorgeous house from the 172 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 outside, but on the inside, I see exposed wires. There's a shutoff valve for the water in the basement that goes to the outside; I have it duct-taped because the valve doesn't exist anymore. Someone came in to do plumbing and broke it. There's a leak that comes in her bedroom from the roof. Even though the roof has been redone, it comes down through her room, and there's an electric wire outlet right underneath it. I'm afraid there's going to be an electrical fire one of these days.
Okay. Councilwoman Campbell's office will coordinate with OHCD as to the disposition of this and where it's at in 173 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 the process and try to get it done ASAP.
Thank you for coming in. Show of hands, please. Three people come up 'cause we only have three chairs. So we'll hear you all. It's just a matter of... (Witnesses come forward.)
Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
I'm Debra Archie, and I live at 7164 North 20th Street. And my problem is, I did have some repair done by the program. It took me almost three years to get that done. I appreciate what they have -- what they did. And -- but the roof -- the weekend when it rained, it rained all the way from my living room window, bay 174 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 window, all the way down to the basement. Also upstairs in my bedroom closet and a light is there, and it's raining right near that light. They promised me they was going to do it, and nobody came out. The only man that came out, he told me they didn't do roofs. And I was told by several people they do do roofs. Look, I worked 35 years on one job. I paid my dues, I paid taxes. I paid double taxes 'cause I worked double shifts. And I feel as though I'm alone now, my husband is deceased, and I need a little help, and this is all I'm asking, for them to give me some help. I have a little pipe in the kitchen and I paid different ones to try to fix it. It's a little pipe like a S up under there, and they said they do small plumbing. I can't get that done. And the back window in my back 175 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 bedroom, I can't open it. I -- we don't even touch it 'cause it will fall out. And I asked them when they did the work for me, they said they didn't have enough in the grant for me, only $3,000, and they couldn't do the work that they did for me. And what they did I appreciate it. But I really need those things done and I think I'll be okay.
They did the work it has been about a year now or more 'cause it's been like three years now.
No. He said it wasn't enough to do the window. He knew I need the backroom window 'cause I can't raise them, I can't touch it. And the roof, one guy said 176 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 they didn't do roofs, the other mand said I didn't have enough money to do the roof.
Okay. We'll -- just stay here for a moment. We'll talk to you at the end of the session.
Ma'am, when you're finished with the panel, you can go back to your seat, and then someone will come from Councilwoman Tasco's office. Could you identify yourself for the record, please? 177 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
I'm Janice Strium, 624 North Frazier Street. I had applied through PHDC for a heater. This -- I've been having a problem for about two or three years. It's one of the reasons I believe I'm on oxygen, because when the heater went, the whole house just blacked; I had to leave. So I applied, I was approved, and I haven't heard anything. I call every day, two, three times a day, and I leave a voice mail so I'm sure somebody at PHDC knows my name. All I get is a voice mail. In fact, about a week and a half ago, I called again and I finally got someone, and I was told they wouldn't even be considering to do heaters until after the 15th of November. Now, earlier this year, before I came to Councilperson Campbell's office, I had called and I was told it 178 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 wasn't heater season. So I'm trying to figure out what am I supposed to do.
I was told earlier this year, when your program came out. I had already been approved, but when I called PHDC, I was told it was not heater season.
Mr. MacIntosh, are you hearing this testimony? (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
And every day since then, like I said, I call and I leave my name, my address, my phone number on the voice mail. I know the specialist who I leave this information with. Sometimes it's to the point where 179 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 her voice mail is so full you can't even leave a message; it will hang up, it will hang up.
But I finally got her about a week and a half ago and I was told that they wouldn't even be considering putting in heaters in until after the 15th of November, so I'm trying to figure out --
(Addressing Mr. MacIntosh.) If you want to testify, you have to come -- sit at the Council's seat there, and we'll turn the microphone on there. MR. MacINTOSH: Okay.
It's interesting to watch you sit in the seat because you're going to get an idea of what we deal with when it comes to dealing with constituents. And you're in Councilwoman Campbell's seat, so you're going to be on her hot seat for a while. 180 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 So please, could you discuss the heater season. MR. MacINTOSH: Uh, with respect to the heater system, the only time it's not the heater season, I would say, is during the summer months. But even during those months where we have heaters to go in, we put 'em in. And I will look into this matter and get back to you.
Well, he's telling you now in front of Councilwoman Campbell and Tasco and Councilman Savage on the record in front of me and in front of everybody else. So maybe it took this to get you what you need.
Mr. MacIntosh, can I ask you a question: Do you have a certain number of heaters that you get per season, per year? MR. MacINTOSH: We have a certain amount of dollars that we allocate to address the heater 181 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 replacements, yes.
So do you average out the costs of what it might be for a heater replacement? MR. MacINTOSH: Oh, absolutely, yes.
So do you have some idea of about how many heaters you might be able to install? MR. MacINTOSH: That's correct.
Okay, so how many do you think you can install during a period of time? MR. MacINTOSH: During the heater season?
Well, I mean, heater season, that just doesn't make sense.
Whenever 182 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 it's needed.
Why would you get backed up in the winter when people are really in danger of -- MR. MacINTOSH: We try not to, Councilman, we try not to.
But if you put 'em in in the summer, you won't get as much backed up and -- MR. MacINTOSH: Absolutely, but what happens is, people tend not to call in until it gets like today.
Well, she's been on the list a long time now. What happened to her? MR. MacINTOSH: That's one of the things I really need to look into because, as I've indicated, we prioritize heaters every year, all right? And on an average, we're doing over 300 heaters through the program. But with respect to --
But you know you have 4,000 people on the list 183 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 and so many of them need heaters. Can't you just begin to rotate those people right on out the door. MR. MacINTOSH: That's what we're trying to do, Councilwoman, and --
I mean, you just said they wait to call. They can't get a heater if they call today 'cause about five, ten, a hundred people are before them, so those people that are before you, you tell them that they're on the list, but you got to service all those people on the waiting list now waiting to get a heater. So those people who have been on the waiting list for ten years to get a heater ought to know sometime in life when they're going to get a heater. MR. MacINTOSH: Let me just say this, Councilwoman. There's absolutely nobody on a waiting list for a heater that's been there ten years, and I'll stretch out because I haven't been there 184 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 ten years myself, but I'll tell you, there's nobody on the waiting list that is waiting for a heater for ten years.
How about two? MR. MacINTOSH: No, and I wouldn't really agree with two. There are extenuating circumstances, all right. For example, where a person may need a roof in addition to a heater, well, we're going to try and put the roof in and then put the heater in. So sometimes we have to coordinate. Sometimes the heater may require electrical service in order to run the heater and things of that nature. And coordinating those coordinate those services sometimes may delay the process, but if someone is just coming in and all they need is a heater, believe me, we do not have them waiting around for months, no less years.
Okay. 185 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Thank you. Ma'am, could you please identify yourself for the record.
I had some work done on my house previously, and they did my roof a few years ago, but the A-frame on the back, they did not do that. And they came and took X-rays and said that it was leaking from the A-frame and they don't do that. And that water is coming in from the A-frame, so he said, and rolling down 186 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 the pipes and goes into my middle bedroom. And the ceiling fell, you know, that came through. So that's problem number 1. No, that's not problem number 1; that's on the side. But my heater is number 1. Last year, in January, I went in for knee surgery, knee replacements. I came out in the last part of the January. February, my heater went, and I had called them the year before last. The man came out, did a little -- cleaned it out a little bit, left, and said to call in the summertime and they will come out and clean it and redo it, blah-blah-blah. I called them last winter -- last summer. They came. About 21 minutes, if that much. I'm finished. 22 That quick? Yeah, when you know what 23 you're doing, it don't take long. 24 When heater time came in 25 '07 -- he did that in '06. In '07, 187 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 when I came out the hospital, I woke up and the whole house is white, and I didn't know what it was, if it was the heater or what. And I called 9-1-1, the police, the patrol things, all the fire engines and everything. They came and looked to see if it was carbon monoxide, whatever you say, and they said it wasn't that but I couldn't stay in there. I had to leave the house. And then the man came that next day. I called down to the heater hotline, and they sent somebody out and they worked on it a little bit. We need a part. They go to get a part. We need this. It went on five times; five different people came out there. Until a supervisor named Tony, he said he was the supervisor, and he came and he worked on it all day. Still couldn't go back in there. He came back that Sunday and had to go get a piece, and 188 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 he put it in. He told me -- and now when it's time to turn the heat on, to call him. I called him three times. He hasn't called me back yet. And I'm afraid to turn the heat on. With my knees, it was freezing last night, and they still cold. And I can't turn the heat on because I'm afraid, you know, it might fog up again or what might happen if I do turn it 'cause he told me to call him. And he said he would apply for -- put me down for a new heater. And he said but before I get the new heater, I'm going to be on the waiting list to get the new heater, so call him 'cause he know what he did to make it come on this year. And so I'm waiting.
And cold. MR. MacINTOSH: We'll contact 189 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Tony; he's with our heater hotline service.
It's apparent that there are some problems here. MR. MacINTOSH: Absolutely.
And if do nothing else -- if we just take care of these people here and just get them done today, I think -- the day will be worth it just to get these people fixed. There used to be a show -- I don't know if you remember -- "Tell It to the Mayor," when Jim Tate was the mayor. It was on Sundays for half an hour, and he'd take 25, 30 calls, and all of those things got done. So today, we're telling it to Mr. MacIntosh. If we get these things done, we'll all feel better about it 'cause I feel kind of terrible right now listening to what I'm listening to. MR. MacINTOSH: We'll follow up, Councilman. 190 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Ma'am, either one of you, could you identify yourself for the record.
Good morning. My name is Jacqueline Carthon, and I don't want to make you feel any worse, Councilman Kenney.
It's okay 'cause your living with it, so I can take it.
But first of all, I'd like to greet all of the Councilpeople. And first and foremost, I would like to publicly thank Councilwoman Campbell for sacrificing her summer to work out this District 4 program for us. To me, it demonstrates her concern and the heart that she has for the little people, for disabled people, for senior citizens, people on fixed incomes who struggle with paying Medicare and paying for drugs -- prescription drugs. Thank you. I have to clarify that sometimes. 191 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 It costs a lot. In my case, it's -- and the premiums -- it costs hundreds of dollars a month. So when you have a fixed income and you have to live with conditions in your home that you can't see your way out of to fix, it can be depressing. I lift myself up by helping other people. And so when I saw this program, I really thanked God for her and for all of the Councilpeople who have extended themselves to help people in their districts, 'cause when you're on the citywide program, it does take a long time. I was on the program once for two years to get my leaking roof fixed. By the time the man came, I had forgotten all about that he wasn't even supposed to come. Right now, I have problems in the house and with the wall that I hope won't fall on anyone else. There's numerous things; I won't go into them 192 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 now to give someone else a chance, but I didn't to thank the Councilwoman for doing that for us. And it gives, especially senior citizens, an opportunity to live in a healthy, safe environment. And I think after paying taxes all these years, working all these years, that we should get something back because before now, we got nothing. We pay taxes and we got nothing. And this lady had a heart for us. I pray for her, and God being the omniscient person that he is, he knows our circumstances and knows what we have and what we don't have, and he hears his daughters' and his sons' prayers. And so I just want to thank you, Councilwoman, for doing that. I want to thank you also, all of you, you know, for helping us. I do have numerous problems. 193 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 And what the lady said about not getting answers from 1234 Market, it's true; I've been through that too. It takes a week for them to even get -- and then you got to call their supervisor to get them on the phone. I've been through that, too, just last week. Sometimes they ask for extra documentation that you really don't even need. And it took me two weeks to get them to understand that. I hope that they do now. But we really need help, Mr. McIntosh. My address is 5300 West Berks Street, zip code 19131. And I would really like to have a light in my bathroom I feel awkward sometimes going in there in the dark. We have no 21 lighting in the bathroom and none in the hall so you have to burn a light from another bedroom so that you don't fall trying to get in the bathroom and be sure you take your medication in the 194 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 lighting somewhere, even in my kitchen. We need some help.
My name is Beatrice Chapell, and my address is 49 North Hobart Street. Zip is 19139.
During the somewhere of September 5th is when I went up to the 34th Ward to fill out some paperwork for the Basic Repair Program. I have not heard not one thing not as of yet.
All right. You can see this gentleman right here with the glasses.
Okay. Thank 195 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 you.
My name is Shirley Morrison, and I live at 3228 North Etting Street, 19129.
Excuse me. Could I see hands for any others who needs to testify? Is there anybody other than these ladies? Okay, fine. Please proceed. I'm sorry, ma'am.
Two years in a row, I called the home coordinating agency because I needed some service done on my heater. They said someone would come back too well. Two years in a row, when they tried to get back to me, I was not home. And then when I called back, nobody seemed to know what I was talking about, and they said that 196 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 no one had called. And I need help with my heater. Every year, I have to go down in the basement, turn the water on, fill it up, and I do this a couple times a year.
And I have a roof that's leaking -- not on the roof but it's coming down the wall. And I need help too. I'm 71 years old. I have always maintained my home on my own, and now I'm broke, I can't afford it on $13,000 a year.
I understand. Mr. MacIntosh, do you have the address? MR. MacINTOSH: No, I don't.
Ma'am, could you please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
My name is Elsa Calland. I live at 129 North Edgewood 197 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Street, zip code 19139. I've been having so much problem for the last year and a half with water, and I had them to come out, and I asked for help and they didn't give me any, so I had to go and sign for the City to do the job from the street, and they charged me like 2500.
They sent a plumber out to do the work. They went out in the street and dug up the street last year and a year ago in August. And so they did the job, and they was so long, and they wouldn't come back and replace the pavement back, so I just 198 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 kept calling and they came out this year, over a year ago, and they did replace that. And I'm still having problems with water, and I had to call someone out to come and -- they said they opened up the sewer. I had to pay out another 2500 -- I mean $125 out of my pocket. And so, by having the problem, I'm having water in the ceiling came down, the piping in the bathroom is ruined and everything. I had to put in a water heater this year. I had to pay for that 'cause I couldn't get any help. And I'm a senior citizen, I'm 83 years old, and I have arthritis real bad. And I really need help.
I've been maintaining this house for 50 -- I think 52 years, and I've never had any help, never. 199 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Well, you're going to get some help now from this gentleman with the glasses right here.
Yes. My name is Ann Marie Salters, and I live at 7443 North 20th Street. That's Miss Tasco's district, I think, District 9. And I've been approved for some work to be done, some cement work, some work on the walls inside the house. Steps, cement steps on the outside. And pointing, because when it rains really, really hard, the water comes down into the basement. And right now, one of the walls is bulging. And another wall is crumbling. And also, there was some plumbing work done in the bathroom, but 200 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 what happened was, where the toilet joins the floor, water is seeping from under there, and I don't know where it's going besides the part that I see. I'm thinking it might be in the ceiling in the front room. And so I put an application in for that; I think it was late last year, around October, maybe. And so I was approved for that. I took all the documentation that they asked for down there, and I had orientation, and I spoke with one of the -- I forgot what she's called. But anyway, they said everything was fine. I had brought everything that they needed, had requested, and they said I would be hearing from them, but I have not heard from anyone so far.
There's some work to be done of the roof. And all that was approved. 201 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 Everything I've asked for has been approved, but I haven't seen anyone to get to it yet.
Okay. If you could just take that chair there, and Mr. MacIntosh will take your information. Ma'am, thank you very much. Could you please identify yourself, the lady with the red hat.
5046 Race Street. And I always sign my name with an A, a period and then Pearl Riley.
Well, my problem is, they come in, they did do some work. 202 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 But then, again, they left the water spigots on, and that ran down from the bathroom to my living room, and it caused my walls -- one of my -- part of my walls to be need fixing. And I had some lamps and they -- water ran on the lamp, and then the lamps had to be changed. And I don't have all of the information, who the people was that came. And they told me that my cellar really needed fixing, which I know, and they told me that they came then and they did something to the heater, and they told me to pull everything I had from against the wall by a certain time, and they would come back and see that my walls in my cellar gets fixed. Well, I did that, and they never came back. And that's been about a year or so. They never came back. So then I had to go down there and push the things back to the wall and try to keep my house straightened out. 203 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
And then my steps need a little repairing. And then I have some windows in the cellar that need repairing.
Have all of those items been approved, all the items you're talking about, they've been approved by OHCD -- by PHDC? I'm sorry. They've been approved? Your paperwork has been approved, as far as you know?
That's okay. They'll retrieve everything for you, okay.
Well, they're going to come back and fix it, okay? These gentlemen here will get the 204 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 information from you. Okay, thank you. Ma'am, could you please identify yourself?
Yes. My name is Linda Williams, and I'm knot from the 4th District; I'm originally from Germantown part of the City, but I'm here in reference of my daughter LaNesha Williams. She works for the university; it's like a part-time job, like hours 12 a week, four hours each day. And she 13 just started the job so she just can't 14 stop and get wherever she wants to go. 15
So she calls me 18 this morning, and I told her I would go 19 in for her. No, Mom, you can't go; I 20 have to go. I said, "But you can't go. You need that job. How you going to pay your mortgage? How you going to get back and forth to work?"
You're an acceptable replacement. Don't worry 205 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 about it.
Yes. She has a ceiling problem. I mean, it's like you could just look straight up at the sky from her bedroom.
2721 North 45th Street. It's right across from the English House, 19131.
Yes. And I thank God for you, and I want to tell you thank you very much for helping my daughter -- at least trying to help her. Thank you. 'Cause if I had the funds myself, Miss Campbell, I would just pay for it, but I have my own property and I can't take care of her and me too.
But I could get 206 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 up this morning and come down here and try to explain what's going on.
All right. Well, thank you for coming, and make sure that they have the address. And we're going to follow these individual cases ourselves and also try to figure out -- you have to understand that there's a new administration coming.
A new administration's coming, so we're going to be seeing probably some big changes in this whole program. And I'm not happy to hear what I'm hearing, but I'm happy that I had to sit through it 'cause now I understand it on a firsthand basis, and I think we all -- Councilwoman Campbell did understand it already, and now we understand it even more, so I'm more committed to fixing this issue.
I want to thank City Council too. 207 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890
Thank you, ma'am, for coming in. Anybody else? (No response.)
Okay. That will conclude this session today. Just one more thing for the record. I just want to make sure you understand that we say for the record November 27, at 10 o'clock in this chamber. Councilwoman Campbell, please.
Okay. This Mrs. Strium wanted this read into the record: To whom it may concern regarding Janice Strium. Please be advised that Ms. Strium is a patient under my care. She has a diagnosis of insulin-dependent diabetes, congestive heart failure, and chronic-obstruction pulmonary disease. Miss Strium has to wear her oxygen mask and carry her oxygen tank at all times. 208 10/29/07 LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT/RES. 070882, 890 If you're in need of any additional information, please contact my office. Daniel A. Johnson, M.D. We just wanted that in the record.
Thank you very much, Councilwoman, and thank you for bringing this all to a head. Hope we can get some result.
I hope so. Thank you. (Proceedings end at 1:30 p.m.) * * * 209 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings of the City of Philadelphia Council Committee on Legislative Oversight are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me on Monday, October 20, 2007, and that this is a true and correct statement of same. __________________________________ JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)