Thank you.
currently chair we have 10 attendees you can proceed as you wish thank you good morning
everyone my name is bill bergman and i will be sharing this morning's hearings with me is our
Our vice chair, Ismail Shahid.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Our board member, Cheryl L. Gaston.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you.
Our board member, Tana Graham.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Our board member, Taya Nguyen.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
So present is our attorney, Hillary Emerson, and our executive director, Ian Haggerty.
Here's our verse 4 for now.
270 -5548.
Leave your email address and the address of the property in question.
The question answer box on the screen is not for testimony.
All questions should be directed to our executive director at ZBA executive director at phil .gov.
Here's our schedule for today.
Number five.
Number five, MI 2024 -003 -335 -621 -25 Reed Street.
That case has been continued.
And number seven, MI 2024 -007 -193 -3701 Chestnut Street.
That case has been continued.
Are there any other requests for continuances?
good morning mr chair this is jason and i will be your calls for this session
at this time i do not see any hands raised for further continuances
okay thank you so number one mi 2023 00716 469 urania street this is the third listing we have
no exhibits is hillary fullborn or galen fitzpatrick in the audience
chair we have a hand up raised hand raised from a number ending in 3552 i'll let them speak now if
you wish sure good morning
hello hi could you please state your name and spell for the sonographer
Yes, Adrienne Fernandez. My last name is spelled F -E -R -N -A -N -D -E -Z, Swampoodle Neighborhood Prices Association, RTO.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Adrienne, are you involved in this 469 Arania Street?
No, I'm sorry. I am calling about 2601 -31 North 26th Street. I'm sorry, North 28th Street.
28th Street. That case has not been heard yet. We're going to get to that. Okay.
Okay, so 469 Arania Street. Is there anyone in the audience present?
Again, Mr. Chair, I didn't see any hands.
Okay, so MI 2023 -007 -126 -469 Iranian Street, I vote to dismiss.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is to dismiss.
Kenetta Graham, my vote is to dismiss.
Iowan, my vote is to dismiss.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is to dismiss.
Thank you.
Number two, MI 2024, 000819, 4444 Oakmont Street, Robert and Amanda Klein.
4444 Oakmont Street, Robert and Amanda Cline, this is a resumptive hearing.
Robert Cline has been allowed to speak.
Mr. Cline, could you please state your name?
Robert Cline.
Spell for the stenographer.
Mr. Cline?
i'm sorry mr jerry cut off okay it was switching me into like a panelist sorry
all right thank you hi mr klein could you spell your name for the stenographer
it's uh robert r -o -b -e -r -t klein k -l -e -i -n do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth
and nothing but the truth i do okay so mr klein this is a resumptive hearing and uh we're going
to have you testify relative to we needed photos, interior photos, and we do have your updated tax
compliance. So thank you. Could you show us the photos that you have, sir? Let me just share my
screen okay you're we see you okay
there would be one sec sorry
okay so
this is
open this up. We don't see anything. You have to show us your photos, right?
We see you. Okay, hold on one sec.
Sorry.
okay we're starting to come i see your photos okay sorry about the technical difficulties
all right so this is um the the bathroom for so the last time when i testified i didn't
i know could but could you do me a favor could you enlarge it so we can see it
so in other words your pdfs are here but we're trying to see the photos can you see can you
see the picture i have on my screen now or no no we see like you got it i think you got a tap on
the bathroom bedrooms etc to make it come up right okay give me give me one sec
okay thank you when he moves so that's the bathroom on the first floor
yep that's the bathroom remember this this unit's vacant um we haven't we're gonna we're gonna paint
it um yeah make it look nicer put furniture in it um this is the bedroom as is um kitchen as is
and then
living room as is.
And then this is
pictures of the
second floor. This is the
bedroom, the kitchen,
living room
and kitchen, living room.
This is the
back driveway,
corner of the front.
This was the new zone
and toaster that I had to post.
your testimony your testimony prior was this has always been a duplex and you have non -opposition
for homesburg civic associations here correct okay questions from the board
um can we uh what was that picture of the living room
where what is this one or yeah is that is that the living room or is that a is that a bedroom or
it's it's a living room over the years um people have used uh you know it's it's front of the house
or back of the house and i have had tenants use one as the bathroom and another one's the living
room um yeah is that a closet the the doors there it is a closet yeah lining doors yep it's a it's
a closet it's got lots of storage right there okay and where's the where's the entrance to the
unit can we see that in these pictures is that uh i don't think i have any entryway pictures i just
pictures is that i don't think i have any entryway pictures i just took pictures of the inside of
the units okay but to access the units how are we getting in and so you you come in the the front
door right there as soon as you come in there's a door to your left that goes to the first floor
and then when you go up the steps that's what gets you up to the second floor there is so there's
there's a main door um and then there's there's two doors for each apartment or one door for each
apartment okay and then the door there uh that's on the bottom the basement door yes what are we
what are we doing with that is that an entrance that we're using is that just to the basement
it just goes to the basement goes to the laundry area there's a washer dryer down there um and then
the hot water heaters, the heaters. There's some additional storage, and then there's an entry
from there to get to the first floor. Okay. And do the tenants have access to this basement?
They do. Okay. Both sets of tenants, the first floor tenants and the second floor tenants?
Correct. Okay. For purposes of using the laundry downstairs, is that, and for storage purposes?
yep yep exactly yeah okay all right thank you no problem other questions
questions or comments from our attorney hillary emerson
not at this time mr chair questions or comments from the virtual audience
you're not seeing any answer mr chair planning commission
good morning amy boy with the planning commission amy boyd
you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth is nothing but the truth
i do please proceed the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing rsa 5
single family residential zoning at this location the appellant has not shown that
the property cannot be used in strict conformity with the zoning code and that the variance is
therefore necessary to enable viable economic use of the property. A 2020 zoning ordinance
passed by City Council which regulated short -term rentals did not change the basic rule prohibiting
full -time use of dwelling units as short -term rentals. This type of absentee management where
the owner does not live in the unit has been illegal since the first short -term rental zoning
regulations became effective in 2015 what changed the passage of the 2020 ordinance is that there
is now a licensing enforcement mechanism therefore the city planning commission recommends that the
board deny the requested use for answer visitor accommodation excuse me mr chair there um there's
somebody with their hand raised they had their hand raised at different points during the
presentation uh randolph fair could you they've been allowed to speak sir could you please state
your name and spell for the stenographer randolph fair please unmute and wait to be sworn in
hello hi hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
Randolph Fair Sr.
R -A -N -D -O -L -P -H
F -A -I -R
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,
the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Are you a neighbor?
Okay, please proceed.
Yes, actually I signed on
not knowing what I was signing on to
because there's actually two things going on.
One is for a property that's actually
down the street from me a school no well sir listen to me this is 4444 oakmont street i have
no comment on that thank you very much is there anyone else in the audience for oakmont street
okay thank you so mi 2024 000 819 444 oakmont street i vote yes for a temporary variance
that expires
7 -7 -28
and what happens if there's 7 -28
coming back again sir
Cheryl Guess
and my vote is yes with Proviso
Taneta Graham my vote is yes
with Proviso
guy's not voting this is the one this is the one i didn't okay okay ishmael ishmael my vote is just
this is the one
this is the one I didn't hear
with proviso thank you number three thank you thank you number three mi 2024 001 673
920 and one half west somerset street devon ukta is the attorney this is a resumptive hearing
They will be coming back in as a panelist shortly, Mr. Chair.
Good morning, Mr. Chair. Good morning, Boris.
Good morning, counsel. Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yes. Devin Uqda, D -E -V -I -N. My last name is Uqda, U -Q -D -A -H.
you swear or affirm to tell the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the truth
yes I do
so counsel this is a resumptive hearing
has it been posted for this date
and do you have a photo of that posting
and the second thing is
we see you want a triplex
the letter you sent to the neighbors
says it's a duplex
So the letter I sent to the neighbor says a duplex
Says it's the duplex
Says it is currently a duplex
So I'm
So I'm trying to make it a multi
I know I'm aware
You want a triplex
Correct
But what I'm saying the letter that went to the neighbors
said that you wanted a duplex okay am i right hillary
yes so the letter advising them of the rco meeting
that was in your packet right so we had a change in plan um i guess if approved we can come back
and ask for an additional unit but it's large enough for three units it was actually a commercial
space on the bottom originally and then two units on the top. So it already is one commercial space
and two units currently. Hillary, I think it's going to let you have to go back to the neighbors
and explain that. Do you agree? Yeah, I mean, what was presented to the neighbors, Mr. Efta?
It was presented that it was going to be three units. We presented that it was going to be,
the neighbors were aware that it was a candy store usage that there is a store and has been
there for like 20 or 30 years um and we just were keeping the two units the same and just
changing the bottom commercial space to a residential space the only changes to the
commercial space hillary um i mean it's your it's your call mr chair unfortunately the the rco's
letter or they didn't really send the letter they just sent the meeting summary form so
there wasn't an indication as to what they were giving their support to in that letter i don't
know if anybody from from the rco is is on um anyone on the on the for 921 f west somerset street
i do not see any hands raised for this matter now so so devon i i think you're going to have
to go back and have a communication with the rco no i got sure would an email be enough i just
did somebody have to reboot because it was presented to that it's only one unit that's
being changed so what what i want you to do is you don't have to have a full meeting but i want
communications from the RCA. Okay. So we're going, yeah, that's right. And we're going,
so we'll, and we'll try to get you back as soon as we can. Okay. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank
Thank you.
Number four, MI 204 -003 -295 -229 West Roosevelt Boulevard, Abdul Ali and Ahmed Jani.
This is a resumptive hearing.
Very nice, panelists, Mr. Chair.
Coming on.
Coming on.
Ahmed Johnny is on.
Ahmed Johnny is on now as a panelist.
Mr. Johnny, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
So Lee will also be rejoining as a panelist.
Good morning.
They are now a panelist.
Abdul Ali is now a panelist.
You see them, Chase?
Yeah, both individuals appear to be muted.
mr johnny is on camera
johnny yes i'm here mr johnny good morning good morning right um just for the record could you
please state your name is spelled for the stenographer ahmed johnny a h m e d j o and n y
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
So this is a resumptive hearing.
I take note that the 42nd Ward was unanimous support for this.
They did have a proviso, no household living in the basement.
And the council person, Bass, has taken a business of non -opposition.
So this is a resumptive hearing.
So what we need from you is to show us your presentation.
We need to see proof of posting and interior photos.
Your Honor, I have my son to help me because I'm not too much into tech.
I'm going to mirror his screen so that he can show you.
So wait a minute.
So you're the only one that can testify, am I correct?
yes yes but he's going to put the screen up for you okay sure yeah sure and you can testify off
of that thank you okay and can we start by seeing proof of posting for today's hearing correct thank
Thank you.
It's going to start showing up.
Can you see it, Your Honor?
And that is the proof of posting for today's hearing?
Correct, ma 'am.
Okay, thank you.
This is the bedroom and the first floor.
This is the part of the kitchen and the first floor.
This is the other part of the kitchen and the first floor.
this is the the basement
and that's the other part of the kitchen that's the bathroom for the first floor
and that's the windows for the first floor bathroom that's the bathtub
that's a small closet storage area and that's the bathroom from our other side that's the door
to the right is the door to the bathroom, and the one to the left is to the second bedroom,
and that's the hallway that goes all the way back to the bathroom and to the bedroom, that's
again from the other side with the laundry mat by the end of the hallway, and that's
the laundry mat, that's the bathroom to the second floor, and that's the living room to
the first floor and that's again the living room with the entrance to the apartment on the left
hand side that's the second floor uh laundries and that's the second floor bathroom that's the
first floor bathroom isn't it let me see uh they're similar to each other the design is almost
the same but the only difference is that toilet is in the other side in the first picture okay
and this is the living room to the second floor and that's the kitchen to the second floor
And that's the living room with the kitchen on the second floor,
and that's the living room with the kitchen and the second floor with the entrance to the
with the entrance to the left -hand side corner,
that's the main door to the apartment.
And that's the picture of one bedroom.
And that's the picture to the second bedroom.
And that's the poster again.
And that's the entrance to the house.
The one to the left is going to the first floor,
and the one to the right is going to the second floor.
Two separate entrance.
All right.
Questions from the board.
That's all I have.
Any questions from the board?
Questions or comments from our attorney Hillary Emerson?
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
i do not see any hands raised mr chair planning commission
amy boyd with the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends zone change
in zoning at this location when the existing single family residential rsa 5 the appellant
has not demonstrated that there are unique physical conditions or circumstances that
would prevent the property from being used in conformance with the zoning code moreover the
conversion to two -family was done without the benefit of permits. The Planning Commission
recommends that the Board deny the requested variance for two -family. MI 2024 -003 -295 -229
West Roosevelt Boulevard. I vote yes with proviso. No household living in the basement.
i can't vote on this one so okay tanetta graham my vote is yes with proviso
i won my vote is yes with proviso ishmael shaheed my vote is yes with proviso thank you sir you
have your votes. Number six, MI 2024 -006 -033, 2601 -31 North 28th Street. William Kerr is the
attorney. I'll be rejoining as a panelist soon, sir.
Good morning, Mr. Chair, members of the board. Can you hear me?
I can. Mr. Kerr, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yes, William Kerr, K -E -R -R. I'm an attorney with High Sports 40 East Aries Street in Norristown.
You're referring to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Could you identify your client, the relationship to this property?
Yes. My client is Help Pennsylvania Development Court. They're an affiliate of the nonprofit Help USA. They are the intended lessee of the property. The property is currently is owned by Philadelphia, or excuse me, Philadelphia Housing Authority Development Court.
And I have Emma Colley, C -O -L -L -E -Y.
She's a representative of Pennsylvania Development Court.
She's on the Zoom here this morning, and she may need her to make some statements.
Counsel, do you stay played to the refusal and agree with its accuracy?
I agree.
Yeah, I agree that the refusal is accurate.
I do question whether it's actually an appropriate refusal, which we'll get into in a minute.
My understanding is that there's another RCO meeting coming up, am I correct?
That's correct, Mr. Chair.
We had a meeting on November 14th, and a few weeks ago, another RCO requested that a second meeting be held.
So that's coming up on Thursday.
So just for a point, we will not vote on this today.
We will vote on this. We will consider this for a vote next Wednesday, the 15th, I believe it is, at 3 .30 p .m.
Okay, that would be great.
And that will be a resumption hearing, just to clarify.
And we will take public testimony and the recommendation of the Planning Commission at that time,
as well as any updates from Mr. Kerr as a result of the second meeting that's being held.
Okay. And that will be the 15th, 3 .30. Is that correct?
Okay. Perfect. Yeah, that would be great because this is a – we have a financing deadline approaching in early February, and we need to complete this process before the end of the month if we can. Thank you.
Thank you. Proceed. Start your presentation.
Proceed. Start your presentation.
Help, again, I'm representing help.
Help is the proposed tenant on this property.
The property is the former site of the Walton School,
which for years was operated by the Philadelphia School District as a school.
Pennsylvania Housing Authority purchased the property,
or excuse me, Philadelphia Housing Authority purchased the property back in 2015
with the intention of converting it to affordable housing.
And they now have an agreement with my client, Help PA, and Help will be the developer of the affordable housing pursuant to a 99 -year land lease.
PHA will remain the owner of the property.
This proposed project would allow this long vacant school building to be put back in service and provide important affordable housing rental units for seniors.
That's the proposal is 50 senior housing units, and those will be affordable.
They will be developed under the Federal Low Income Housing Tax Credit Program, which is administered in Pennsylvania by Pennsylvania Housing Finance Agency.
And the PHFA financing deadline for 2025 is coming up in early February.
It's a one year, once a year application.
And so it's very important that we, again, that we have a zoning decision on this project so that we can get this, keep this moving this year.
The project also, in addition to the low income housing tax credits, the project has also been awarded a significant financing from Philadelphia Housing Authority in the form of a 40 -year low interest loan.
There will also be some...
Counsel, counsel, counsel.
Could you do me a favor?
Why don't you share your screen?
So we can at least look at what the location looks like.
That's a great idea.
In fact, I was just getting there.
Okay, hold on.
You should be seeing.
I think this is the right.
Are you seeing a plan now?
Coming up now.
How about now?
Yeah, we see a plan now.
This is our zoning plan.
This is actually tab six in the exhibit packet that we submitted.
This is the property.
It's located with frontage on North 27th Street.
Let me scroll down a little so you can see the street.
You know, Mr. Kerr, I think we're going to get to this plan.
And it might be helpful if you could show photos of the property first, so then everybody could put this into a little perspective.
All right.
Let me just tell you where the streets are, because the photos relate to the streets.
So it's West Huntington Street, and this is the school building right here.
It runs along almost the entire frontage of Huntington, and then North 28th Street.
So let me get now to the photos.
There we go.
okay this is my first photo and these are in tab eight this is the 28th street view of the front
of the school building you can see it's it's vacant boarded up but it's a very substantial
a very impressive building so that's the 28th street view
next view is also from 28th street but this is looking back down 28th street to the left
next view is also from 28th street but this is at the corner looking down huntington street
okay then we have are you seeing these photos okay and yep yep we're we're seeing it okay then
looking at this is photo is from the corner of 27th and huntington looking back up huntington
street so this is from the you know the opposite direction on huntington and this view over here
is looking down west 27th street and now i'm going to get to a photo that depicts the
the gist of this this hearing this is the this is from 27th street again this is the existing
driveway that goes to a small parking area for the school been in existence for many years
And the refusal was issued because this driveway enters onto 27th Street. And the current zoning code indicates that where you have multi -family housing, you can't have a driveway to your parking area off of a main street. It has to be off of an alley or rear street where there's no parking.
Well, we can't do that because this is this is where the existing driveway is.
So our legal argument really is that this is a nonconforming property and that under the.
This is a non -conforming property, and that under the zoning law, we are entitled to use this driveway because it exists.
And so one of our arguments here today is that we don't even need variance relief, which is, to my point I made a few minutes ago, as to the accuracy of the refusal.
It's accurate technically, but I don't think it's applicable.
And the reason is, if you look at zoning code section 14 -3059, that section addresses non -conforming parking or site improvements.
And I was hoping I'd be able to share this with you, but I'm not technically proficient enough.
But I'm going to read what that section says.
It says, where the design or location of all street parking does not meet the requirements of the zoning code.
the non -conformity may remain and may be used not notwithstanding these non -conformities so i think
one of the routes the board could take here this morning is basically an interpretation of that
section and and indicate that this that uh the refusal was issued excuse me issued an error
and that we don't need zoning relief that we can move ahead with this project without any kind of
variance relief. Alternatively, we would ask that the board consider granting us a variance,
and the basis for the variance would be that this improvement exists, and there is a case
law that says if you have to demolish an improvement to not require variance, that
that in itself is sufficient basis to grant a variance. The fact that you shouldn't be required
to demolish an improvement or not use an improvement in order to move ahead using the
property. So those are the two grounds for relief. Again, the one we don't believe even requires
variance relief. Okay, so having said that, I will go continue on with the photos. And this is
West Albert Street, which is to the rear of the property. These are some townhouses that exist
beyond let me go back these are these are the townhouses here these are the rear of those
townhouses that i was just showing you the front stick so that's what we have at the rear of the
property and again here's another view this is on huntington street looking back across 28th street
up so you can see it's a residential neighborhood up across 28th street as well
and then these are some posting photos this yellow poster is the poster uh that we we um
put up for this hearing we had a hearing schedule earlier in december and whoops
again i'm not technically that great with this thing um the orange posters in the packet
were posters that we had for the December here.
So we've posted this twice now for the zoning here.
And then I just want to go back to some graphics to give you a sense for the proposal.
And I'm going to use, this is our site plan, which we've rendered.
These are the Albert Street townhouses.
This is the school building itself.
here's the driveway off of north 27th street a small lot 11 vehicle spaces there is no parking
requirements so we don't even need parking but we're providing parking for staff and for residents
to the extent it's needed it will be senior housing senior housing typically does not require
significant parking so we're we're comfortable that the 11 spaces will be sufficient and again
there is no parking requirement that the zoning code imposes on this type of housing and then
we're also going to have a green space in here with walking path for residents to come out the
seniors to come out and walk there's a small sitting area and then I also have and I'm not
going to spend much time on this this is the sort of the finished look of the building again this is
from this would be from 27th street here's the driveway access there'll be a fence and gates
to get in this is again this is the huntington street frontage this is 27th street
and then i also have it the packet we have some some layouts of each of the floors each this is
the first floor there will be a community room um we'll have supportive services that will be provided
for the residents. There will be hours each week
where if a resident needs some assistance, they can go here
and the supportive services staff, which will be a separate
subcontractor, we'll be able to connect them with
to connect them with with providers for supportive services there's a management office each floor
providers for supportive services. There's a management office.
will have a lounge computer area and a laundry so each floor each of the three floors will have
those amenities here's the second floor you see here's the lounge uh in in brown laundry trash
area for each floor and there's the third floor and then these are the the layouts for each of
the units. They'll all be one -bedroom units, a bedroom, a living dining area, kitchen, and a
bathroom. And they're basically two. There's a unit A and a unit B. And the square footages
range from 840 gross square feet to about 925 gross square feet.
let me just check my notes here now as far as the uh the rco meeting again we did uh the
coordinating rco here is all in the family and um back in october late october we sent out
a letter to about 290 addresses um advising them of the november 14th rco meeting it was held by
zoom there were about 10 attendees um it wasn't clear at the time of that that meeting whether
a second rco meeting would be required uh in mid november mid -december we were advised that they
that i guess strawberry mansion and swamp poodle wanted us to come back
so we continued to the december zoning hearing and we now have that second rco meeting scheduled
for this thursday so um that's basically where we are we recognize that the board will not be
issuing a decision today but that's the uh the gist of the the gist of the uh the case happy to
oh one other point i wanted to make um there's a requirement for a tax clearing certificate
if you look at exhibit 15 we tried to obtain the tax clearing certificate certificate using the pha
tax number. And this is what we got. Multiple attempts. We were trying for a zoning board.
This is the OPA number. There's the end of the PHA's EIN, housing authority,
and incorrect information entered, review your information. And every time we tried it,
we got this. So because this is a city -owned property, we just asked it. And because we're
We're not able to obtain this.
We would just ask that the board waive the requirement for a tax clearance certificate in this case.
And that's all that I have as far as my main case.
Again, Ms. Colley is on the line.
She can answer questions or I can answer questions.
Counsel, we want to have your testimony adopted.
So could you bring your client on?
Could we promote Emma Colley as a participant?
they've been allowed to speak good morning could you please state your name and spell for the
stenographer good morning my name is emma collie e -m -m -a c -o -l -l -e -y where we're affirmed to tell
the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do yes please proceed council okay good
Good morning, Ms. Kali.
Good morning.
Have you been in attendance and observing this hearing since the beginning a few minutes ago?
Yes, I have.
And have you heard all of my statements to the board?
And were they accurate?
Yes. And can I just add one thing?
I just wanted to clarify, I think Mr. Kerr explained this well, but I did want to clarify, once developed, this property will be, you know, privately managed by HELP, which is the organization I work for.
We will have a 99 year ground lease from the Philadelphia Housing Authority. So, you know, de facto ownership, more or less. So this is not PHA housing, it's not public housing. Help will be owning and operating the development.
And with that clarification, Ms. Colley, do you adopt all my other statements as your own testimony?
Okay, Mr. Chair, I think we can move on.
Questions from the board.
Yeah, I have a question.
Do you know if there was any kind of like historical review or anything to the like of this property?
historical review or anything uh to the light of this property because it's been around for a minute
to to date no there was no indication um in the process that that historical that it was historic
or that it required historic review but as we move through if we get the approval from pha phfa
Pennsylvania Housing Finance Agency. Obviously, that that issue would become relevant if, in fact, there was some historic aspect to it.
But we're not proposing any significant changes to the exterior.
The exterior will pretty much remain with just some just some refurbishment, if you will.
And on the the site plan that you showed, you said there was some townhouses on the back street.
Is that part of your project as well, or that's like another project,
or those are just existing houses that you just called townhouses?
Those are existing houses that are independent of this project.
They're not part of this project.
Okay, and one last question.
In the diagrams, I noticed there was like two separate structures.
I don't know if they were attached to the building in the photo.
It looked like there was like, I don't know if they were trailers or something like that.
Would that have to be demolished?
I saw that in the photos.
I think it's in the photos.
Yeah, it's in the photos.
Showing the property.
I don't know if it's attached to the building or if it's just separated.
I don't even know if it's even part of this plan.
Okay, I'm back to our colored up.
The original photos that you showed of the site.
Original photos.
Right. Anything that's not shown on here would be demolished as part of the proposal.
So we do have a small.
So, Mr. Kerr, I think what our board member is saying is, could you show us the photo where those properties.
OK, I'll go back there. Let me.
And I can help to answer that if if that's OK.
Sure. Go ahead, Emma.
Two points. I'll go in reverse first.
If you're looking at this photo right here, yes, you'll see this old structure to the left of the historic building.
This is an addition to the school.
I believe it was from the 70s, if I remember correctly.
It was actually, I think, the old kindergarten or preschool.
Anyway, we're actually planning to preserve that.
It's depicted on the site plan in a light gray color.
And of course, it won't be boarded up like this. There would be windows and a portico, you know, that attaches the two structures, and we would turn that into the community room.
and then I wanted to make one point of clarification about the historic question from
board member Graham um this property is actually on the national register of historic places
um which is pretty cool and you know I think it's beautiful property so as Mr. Kerr said
Um, we are restoring, um, the exterior of the building, um, and, you know, any interior
and exterior renovation would be in compliance with the state historic preservation office.
Um, we are also applying for historic tax credits alongside our federal low income tax
credits.
So, you know, there's compliance that goes along with that as well, if we were to be
awarded.
um so that is you know an approval process we would work on over the you know next year or so
if and when we're granted tax credits um we got um you know much more to come on that but um we
would be complying with any historic preservation requirements definitely i apologize i misspoke
on that i was not aware of that all that had occurred uh but it does make sense this property
is historic because it is a very very fine piece of architecture yeah yeah obviously of course we
just focused on step one today of this zoning issue and then um as i think mr kerr said um
we'll have you know um some more work to do with the community with phfa and chippo etc to to you
know, plan out our development. And my last question is, given that the age of the building,
I know there's going to be some remediation involved. And so I guess, is that a plan that
has been presented to the community in the first community meeting or possibly in the second
community meeting? Yes, remediation will be needed. So far, we've completed a phase one
environmental report with our
Um, environmental report, um, with our, um, environmental consultant, um, called Hillman.
Um, the report, um, outlines, uh, you know, what will be needed.
That was done over a year ago now, so it's currently being updated again so we can, um,
you know, submit that to, for our PHFA application.
um i'm not sure that we shared that report in full with the community i i don't want to speak
out of turn but i think we can um yeah not opposed uh or at least you know of course summarize um
what will be needed in terms of remediation efforts thank you it's an add any other questions
from the board. Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson.
Just briefly, I just wanted to note that Mr. Curry, you offered a couple of reasons why you
believe relief was warranted. And I just wanted to clarify that the board can only consider
variance relief at this point. If there is a non -conforming use argument, that is actually
an appeal against L &I would have to be considered separately, and we'd need a city attorney here
in order to give the city's position on that. So the board can only consider variance relief
at this time. So I just wanted to clarify that for the record. Okay, yeah, that is a nuance.
it's always been my position that the board has the ability to make an interpretation
of the zoning wardens that's sort of that's one of their vested powers so they I believe that
they could look at this section 143059 and just read it and and and make a determination that
the plain reading of this section allows us to use this parking lot without without any
any zoning board relief whatsoever right well the zoning yeah no the zoning board could make
that determination but in that case you're challenging the refusal which and and the
city would need to have an opportunity to respond to that challenge of the refusal as opposed of
as opposed to you just asking for variance relief so that's why the board couldn't consider that
today is because the there hasn't been an appeal filed against lni for the issuance of the refusal
And thus, there is not a city attorney here to discuss the city's position on the issue.
All right. Yeah. Again, I do believe that the board has jurisdiction to make that determination.
And then if the city disagreed, they could always appeal the decision to court.
I think that's that's a way around that, because, again, my perspective has always been that the board has the zoning board has the has the jurisdiction to interpret the zoning ordinance.
So anyway, but we don't need to argue about that. Thank you.
Well, okay, so my understanding is there will be an RCO meeting on January 9th.
We are going to have a resumptive hearing on the 15th at 3 .30.
At that time, we will take testimony from the community and also from the Planning Commission.
Thank you, Mr. Kerr.
Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you.
Members of the board and Madam Solicitor, we will see you on the 15th.
Is there anyone in the audience whose case has not been called?
Mr. Chair, I have a hand up from Mr. Rudolph Fair.
I've allowed him to speak.
Randolph Fair.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for this time?
Yes, Randolph Fair, Sr.
R -A -N -D -O -L -P -H, Randolph Fair, F -A -I -R, Sr.
SR. I think I swore
you in once before. Yes, I got knocked out.
Sure. You're
interested in the case we just heard, right? That's
correct. So there's a community meeting on the
9th. Correct. Right. And then what we're going to do is
we're going to bring this back on the 15th and let the community tell the
board what they think and also the plan and the planning commission will will make their comments
relative to the case so we're going to let this community meeting happen on january 9th we bring
this back on the 15th at 3 30 p .m for a resumptive hearing to take testimony from the community and
also from the planning commission and then we'll make a decision okay okay that's that's good
enough. I just happen to live about 200 feet from the project. All right. Thank you, Mr. Fair. We
appreciate your interest in the case. Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience whose
Is there anyone else in the audience whose case has not been called today?
case has not been called today?
I do not see any further hands, Mr. Chair.
Thanks, everyone.
I appreciate everybody's work today, and see everybody tomorrow morning.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Have a good day.
Have a nice day.
Thank you.
Thank you all.
Good job, everyone.
Thank you.
Have a good one.