Thank you.
chair we have 35 attendees and you can start as you wish
thank you um i'm sorry we um pause for one second um hillary is trying to work on her audio
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
And to all the attendees on behalf of the ZBA, we apologize for the delay.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
can y'all hear me now oh here we go we can very clearly all right i just had to switch
i'm having an issue with my other computer i'll have to get it fixed later but all right i'm all
good thank you for your patience ready to go yes chair good morning everyone my name is bill
Bergman, and I will be chairing this morning's meeting. With me is our Vice Chair, Ismail
Shahid. Present, Mr. Chairman. Our board member, Cheryl L. Gaston. Present, Mr. Chairman. Our board
member, Tanetta Graham. Present, Mr. Chairman. Also present is our attorney, Hillary Emerson,
and our Deputy Director, Kathleen Grady.
Here's our virtual format.
Proceedings are being recorded.
With your participation, you agree to be recorded.
Video will be available by contacting
Kathleen.Grady at phil.gov.
For our court stenographer,
we ask attorneys and witnesses
to identify themselves before testifying.
If you're participating by phone,
Press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute.
To enter an appearance statement, call 267-270-5548.
Leave your email address and the address of the property in question.
And finally, the question and answer box on the screen is not for comments or testimony.
All comments should be directed to our Deputy Director Kathleen Grady.
Let's look at today's schedule.
number five mi 2024 003 145 1732 north howard street that case is continued
number six mi 2024 003 294 5000 warrington avenue ta 329 9796 cases continued hearing on this
appeal will be scheduled if necessary, finally following the final resolution of the litigation
concerning the ordinance at issue in this appeal. Are there any other requests for continuance?
Good morning, Chair. This is Jasmine Webster. I will be your co-host for today.
Do we see any other hands?
I see no hands at this time.
Number two, MI 2023, 002-575-6531-7th Street.
Is Mr. Zaragunde in the audience or Ortslyn Bowser?
Any hands?
I see no hands at this time, Chair.
Okay, so MI 2023-002-575-6531 North 7th Street, this case is continued until we receive a letter of withdrawal.
And number four, MI 2023-007-158-3533 North 16th Street, this case has been withdrawn.
We're going to start today with number three.
MI 2023-006-846-6922 East Roosevelt Boulevard.
Vern Anastasio is the attorney.
The coordinating RCO in this case conducted a site visit.
Vern Anastasio is coming in as a penalist.
Vern Anastasio is coming in as a penalist.
Morning, Mr. Chair.
Morning, Counsel.
Could you please state your name for the record?
Yep, Vern Anastasio.
On behalf of the owner, Gao Ming.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes, sir.
Our place chair has a few questions, sir.
Good morning, Counsel.
do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate to a diagnosis i do i've emailed in
all the required documents and exhibits that is needed to proceed with this case five days in
advance of this hearing i have thank you counsel please proceed and share your screen thank you
mr chair we're here and members of the board we're here good morning we're here for 6922 east
Roosevelt Boulevard. We have a 70-page exhibit packet that I'm entering into evidence.
In addition, there is a separate document that I'll be presenting later in my presentation to
also submit, but the application is for the legalization of a pre-existing two-family dwelling.
it's a corner property as you can see it's a walk up walk-in basement and two additional floors
there's a separate entrance here on the side for the second unit and what the property history will
reveal is that there's been two units here at least for the last 27 30 years
It was a two-family dwelling, which that conversion occurred about 10 or 11 years ago.
It was as far back as 1983, which actually makes it longer than 35 years.
It was a one-family dwelling and a professional office.
So this property hasn't been a single-family home since the 70s.
And since the 80s, it's been a single-family home and a professional office for a dentist.
And then after that, as the history shows, there was even a further conversion to a beauty salon, where, of course, there was lots of traffic in and out with regard to clients that were open five, six days a week at the beauty salon on the lower level with the single family dwelling above.
About a decade ago, the property, that space that was first a doctor's office and then a beauty salon was converted to a, you know, physically interior converted to the living space.
and people were living in both units for a better part of a decade with no incident.
There was, in fact, a problem tenant in there, which I believe precipitated L&I's
compliance action. And as such, Mr. Ming, in fact, vacated the entire building December of 2023.
The building is empty now, and he's going through this process to legalize what he believed was already legal, but also to prevent any problem tenants from being able to stay in the building moving forward once he secures a rental license for both units.
So because this property has in fact been two units for the better part of 35 years, because the property was converted over a decade ago with no incident, and because my client took immediate action in vacating the entire property, and we have the notice to vacate, moving that into evidence as well, dated December of 2023.
and the property remains vacant and will remain vacant until it's legalized here and then getting
a proper CO. We respectfully request the granting of the variance. And I'd like to call Mr. Galmay
to the stand. If you could raise his virtual hand.
Good morning, Sheriff.
Mr. Brown has been allowed to speak.
Good morning. Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Mingao, please unmute yourself.
Good morning. Could you please state your name? It's spelled for the stenographer.
good morning could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
my name is min and last name is god
would you spell please for the stenographer
the first name m-i-n-g and last name is g-a-o right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth
the whole truth nothing but the truth yes please proceed counsel thank you mr chair
mr gall did you hear my presentation to the board this morning
that's a yes or no yes okay thank you and is it true and accurate to the best of your knowledge
yes and you adopt it as your own testimony
uh yes thank you nothing further thank you questions from the board
no chair
uh yes can i see the uh prior uh approval uh again please yes of course
This was approved as a dentist's office and a one-family dwelling back in 1983.
Well, this is the refusal. You showed a page where there was some other.
There is no permit here.
but pursuant to this application and the history of the use and the neighbors confirmed there was
in fact a dentist office there since the early 80s and then at some point about 1989 that dentist
office became uh a beauty salon which is right here but there are no permits in history uh just
the applications that were approved and of course from the arts meeting itself uh everyone uh you
know was was an agreement that this property has been used as two units however one being residential
one being commercial since the early days i see what you're saying i just don't see any like stamps
or anything yeah yeah no permits either but it says here see application zoning board of adjustment
granted a beauty salon here's the history in 11789 so okay all right that's that's that's evidence
and confirmation if not a stamp or a permit. Okay. And then this other the application I think you
were showing was for a sign for the beauty salon. Say it again. I'm sorry. I thought it said earlier
that one of these applications was for a sign for the beauty salon. Yeah also for signage.
mm-hmm okay all right but as far as the use is concerned the two previously approved uses
was the immediate from 89 was the beauty salon and prior to 89 from 83 to 89 was the doctor's
office okay all right thank you you're welcome how many bedrooms was that unit where the office
is going to be what office currently is now how many bedrooms i'll pull up the plans for
us i did not get to the plans although they are submitted with the packet
So here's the basement plan, and it's two bedrooms, very large living room, large eat-in kitchen, ample bathroom, mechanicals, and two bedrooms with a washer-dryer in the unit.
And there's the side entrance that I referenced earlier in the photos.
And it's 100% above grade, of course.
All of this will be subject to a certificate of occupancy.
The applicant will be required to go through an analysis for the International Building Code, of course, pursuant to securing the zoning permit.
Of course, pursuant to securing the zoning permit. Thank you.
Thank you.
Questions from our attorney, Hillary Emerson.
Just two quick notes. One, just Mr. Anastasio, as you know, just make sure that you upload the additional document that you showed today so that we have that as part of our record.
um and the the zoning history that you showed i believe it was for the other
corner property on the block is 6900 roosevelt boulevard but there is a listing on the refusal
that there was a chiropractor's office on the first floor of this property previously approved
in i think it was 1968. right here 1968 yep yep so i just wanted to clarify that i think that the
zoning history is actually for 6900 roosevelt not 6922 so but there is um there is history
of commercial on the ground floor at this property thanks for confirming that yeah
actually even even even longer history yeah 55 years questions or comments from the virtual
audience yes chair i have a hand up by the name of ting wing they have been allowed to speak
ting wing i could you please could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
um i'm sorry it was a accident okay good all right thank you um
Any other comments from the virtual audience?
For the record, Ms. Wang is, in fact, the property manager.
She was responsible for ensuring that the problem tenant was driven from the property and will continue to manage the property responsibly.
Thank you.
Thank you, counsel.
Planting commission.
Chair, I have two more hands up.
Patricia Steele has been allowed to speak.
Could you please state your name as spelled for the stenographer?
Patricia Stairs, S-T-E-E-R-S.
Right.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Are you a neighbor?
I live one door over from this property.
This picture that you're showing is the wrong picture.
It's not the property.
I've been living here for 25 years, and it's been a one-family home where not this picture.
This picture is Distant Street.
The one that you're talking about with the beauty salon, that's on Longshore.
That's the block over.
I've been living here for 25 years, and it's never been a chiropractor beauty salon.
It was a one-family home that lived here when I moved here.
And they moved out, and then it was vacant for a while.
And then he bought the property and tried to turn it into a two-row.
um the first picture that you show where the air conditioner was that's not the house that's the
house from the across the street from there at the next block from the house that's across the
street from there there there was a beauty salon there there's a place where you go and vote
that house right there that he's trying to turn into a two-bit room it's been one family living
there like i said i've been living here since 2000 it's been a one-family home the only problem
I had with it was the upkeep of the property. If I was to take my phone out there, I'll show you
now. It's bottles all around on the ground. It's trash, the grass. He just got somebody to cut the
lawn yesterday. The bushes are coming over. The tenants that lived upstairs were very noisy.
They would party all hours of the night until five, six o'clock in the morning,
bottles of beers outside. My neighbor that lived directly next door had went to the police station
numerous times to complain about the property and the people that's living in there, because
they get up at four or five o'clock in the morning to go to work, and they have a little
girl there, and they will complain about it.
Thank you.
Mr. Chair, I don't need to cross the exam, but I do want to make sure that the record
is clear.
The history was corrected, that the beauty salon was across the street, that the chiropractic
use was in place since 1968, and that over 10 years ago, that unit was converted to a second
family dwelling. And yes, we do stipulate that there was a problem tenant in there
that the client has driven from the property. Thank you. Other hands in the audience.
Yes, Chair. I have one more hand up. Peter, last name, Indian and T, has been allowed to speak.
good morning sir could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
Good morning, sir. Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
yeah my first name is peter last name is t-s-i-c-h-l-i-s do you swear or affirm to tell
the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes are you a neighbor sir yes i live three doors
down okay now here's my statement i i i've been putting up with the side apartment parking cars
on the sidewalk. I cannot walk my dog
past it. I have to walk out into the street.
This was constantly
until May.
That's when the
rental unit was
evicted
in May of this year, 2024.
And then the
top part of the house, I
put up loud music for the last two years,
parties on the back porch
on Fridays, Saturdays,
Sundays. It's like
you can't sleep. It comes right through my house.
I'm three doors down.
With the
music, they're fighting out there.
They're drunk.
with the upkeep of the property, that's another
problem. He just cut the property
during the property this morning.
I've been
filing 311
complaints about the property,
about the grass, about he's got a cat
house by the side of the apartment. He's drawing
cats, and they're pooping
back there, peeing back there.
It's bugs in the bushes
going by the apartment.
I'm asking for this zoning
to be turned down.
It was converted back in
I've been living here since 2006.
It was a garage.
It was a garage. The side apartment
was a garage until 2015,
and it was converted into an apartment.
Since then,
he's been renting it out the top part and the bottom part and these people just do have not
respect for the main neighbors they they park constantly park on the sidewalk constantly do
not clean the front during the winter time i had to call 3-1-1 to get them to shovel their property
that's my testimony it's just a disgrace and properties getting a zoning notice
all right thank you can i have one more thing uh you can also filed in 2023 they filed a
a certificate for construction that construction was done in 2015 so what wider file that now i
don't know thank you very much for taking the time to close we appreciate it uh is there anyone else
in the virtual one yes there are no more hands at this time chair mr anastasia do you want to
respond to any of this but just that uh the property was converted as the gentleman said
10 years ago no incident whatsoever but for the last tenant which was immediately taken care of
and driven from the property planning commission thank you chair bergman and good morning david
effecto f-e-c-t-e-a-u with the city planning commission do you swear or affirm to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes sir i do please proceed thank you chairman
And, Chairman and Board members, the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the RSA-5, residential single-family zoning at this location.
The appellant seeks to convert a previous business space on the building's ground floor to a residential unit.
An owner converted, at some point, the commercial space into a dwelling unit without the benefit of permits.
The City Planning Commission recommends that the Board deny the proposed use variance for a second dwelling unit.
Okay, thank you.
Mr. Anastasia, we're going to hold this to next week
where I get a chance to talk to some of the other board members
about this case, okay?
Thank you, Mr.
So that'll be next Wednesday at 9.30, we'll vote.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you very much.
We're going to go to number one.
So MI 2021-004-633-3900 Main Street.
Adam Laver is the attorney.
There is a letter of opposition from Mani Young Neighborhood Council.
There's a letter of support from Council Member Jones.
And the applicant also has three letters of support, two formed from neighbors, along with two letters of support from contractors.
Adam Laver has been promoted to penalist.
Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the board.
Mr. Laver, could you please state your name for the record?
Adam Laver, L-A-V-A as in Victor, E-R, Blank Rome, 1 Logan Square, on behalf of Shahab, S-H-A-H-A-B, Shahab Investment, LLC, and its managing partner, Ahmed Michael.
LLC, and its managing partner, Ahmed Michael Al-Haddad, owner.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, Chairman Bergman, I do.
Our vice chair has a few questions, sir.
Thank you.
Good morning, counsel. Do you agree to waive the reading of a refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?
Good morning, Mr. Vice Chairman. Yes, I do.
Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that is needed and required to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?
Yes, Mr. Shahid, I have.
Thank you, Mr. Labor. Please proceed and share your screen.
Thank you.
Mr. Chairman and members of the board, as I mentioned, I have the privilege of representing
Shahab Investment LLC and its managing partner, Ahmed Michael Al-Haddad.
Michael acquired the subject property approximately eight years ago.
It has been his dream to transform this 59,000 square foot underutilized surface parking riverfront property.
Here you can see the riverfront property as it exists today, a surface parking lot.
And to the left would be, actually, to the right would be Main Street, and to the left would be the river, I believe, in this photo.
In addition to Michael, also with us in the virtual hearing room, are Stuart Rosenberg of SGRA Architects, Dr. William J. Cohen, Citi Regional and Environmental Planner, American Institute of Certified Planners Charter Member, and member of its College of Fellows.
Dr. Cohen is also a professor at Temple University.
Additionally, Dr. Peter Angelides of eConsult Solutions, Inc., who is an expert in documenting
financial and economic impact, and will speak of both regarding the proposed project.
On the screen before you is a conceptual rendering, and I'll get into details as we move along.
But I'd just like to set the table, if you will.
Michael has appeared before this board several times before.
His company is a certified minority business enterprise that prides itself on a stellar
reputation throughout Philadelphia's neighborhoods for both adaptive reuse and for new construction.
One of Michael's most recent new projects, which you may have walked by or driven by,
It was a very collaborative endeavor with former City Council President Clark, as well as the surrounding community.
This project can be seen on the 10-hundred block of Girard Avenue.
It is a mixed-use development, similar in some ways to what I'm going to share with you today.
In that case, on Girard Avenue, it has really set the groundwork for transformation along the immediate corridor.
Why do I begin with this background?
I do because reputation is key to Michael.
His past projects support the assertions that we're going to make today.
He is a man rooted in community, rooted in Philadelphia.
you. Here are a series of photographs of Main Street with that parking lot that you saw from
the interior, and now we're looking at the exterior. You can see the postings. You can see
the curb cuts into it. The subject site is a vacant parcel. It has a troubled history in the
community. It is not the highest and best use. It's not the best way to treat prime waterfront
real estate. The proposed redevelopment of the site has elicited divergent opinions, and I'm
sure we'll hear those divergent opinions today. This is understandable considering the impact of
the proposed transformation of nearly an entire block. However, Mr. Chairman and members of the
board, the most vested stakeholders, the immediate neighbors, yearn to see the property transformed.
The business owners yearn to have people patronizing the local businesses that have
weathered so many events in Philadelphia recently and are trying to hold out a little bit longer.
Unfortunately, over the course of several years now, you note the MI number is 2021. We don't hear many 2021s anymore. So over the course of several years of dialogue and discussion, it's become evident that it is impossible to satisfy every individual's oftentimes competing wish list.
Unfortunately, over the course of several years now, you note the
process. And during the course of a very engaged process, development plans were refined and
the zoning application was amended accordingly. And Ms. Emerson has revised proviso plans
that have been submitted. Let me just touch on some highlights and I'll delve into detail
in the course of this presentation. In response to community feedback, in response to civic
design review feedback in response to feedback from Philadelphia City Planning Commission
and based on feedback of consultants hired by Michael, below-grade parking at the development,
at the proposed development, has been completely removed, meaning no basement is proposed.
And placement of all parking, you'll see, is proposed at grade.
There is a reduction in dwelling unit density. We are now proposing 115 residences. And you'll see, and you've seen a little, a taste of it in the conceptual rendering, a shift from three buildings as originally proposed to two buildings and efforts to incorporate preservation of public view and access to the river.
Very much in response to comments and feedback from Civic Design Review. Wonderful green space is proposed and public river walk. It's still up in the air as to whether there will be public access along the riverfront.
but we are being sure to make it possible that if that happens, what Michael is proposing can link
into that and be synergistic with that. And if it doesn't happen, you'll see in the proposed plans
that there are still opportunities with this development to bring the public in, at least
at this property in front of the river, to enjoy this amazing resource that has been a Philadelphia
a treasure for so many years. The district council member Curtis Jones has visited the site
and reviewed the updated plans that we're sharing with you today. And he has submitted a letter to
this board in which he references that the proposed plans, quote, will help to further my
vision of revitalizing Maniunk's Main Street corridor. He goes on to write, I'm very excited
about this transformative project.
I'd like to share some aerial images with you now.
You've seen a few photographs from the inside of the property,
which is here, surrounded in the yellow.
You've seen from Main Street, looking at the curb cuts in at the wall.
And here you get a better sense of streetscape
and also placement along the river.
And in this context, I've been thinking a lot about the case and the fact that throughout history, people have naturally been drawn to the water's edge.
Cities have been built up around rivers.
In earlier years, the locations were often the site for industry, as was the case in Manioc.
However, today, residences with a water's view are sought after throughout the world.
Think, for example, of some of your favorite locations, seaside resorts, luxury high-rises on the waterfront, at home and abroad, whether it's Delaware Avenue or favorite location in Europe, Florida, wherever.
And what we have learned through science and engineering is that there is a way to responsibly develop.
And that is the difference between outmoded, functionally obsolete structures that don't address responsible waterfront development, in many cases because they're historic or preceded the advancements in technology that we have today, and the engineering that we have today that can make these projects work and be better than ever before.
So even at the water's edge, this is possible. This is what is being presented today with these refined plans. Many enjoy living, relaxing, and looking out upon the water. Oceans, rivers, lakefronts are highly desirable locations. This is what we have today.
now there are those in maniunk who would prefer to stagnate and
Now, there are those in Maniunk who would prefer to stagnate, and I would submit that never is there a truer use of the word stagnate.
We could perpetuate parking lots.
We could perpetuate self-storage, one of the obvious uses permitted.
But in place of that, what we hope to create with this board's blessing are the plans that have been submitted.
In delving into this application, we believe that this board will properly determine that sufficient hardship exists at this property to grant reasonable variance relief and to usher in a new era for Maniunk and for the city of Philadelphia to bring needed housing units online.
Turning to the specifics of the proposal before you, 3900 Main Street was previously home to a mill complex, which was demolished long ago. Prior attempts to redevelop the site have failed. As the neighborhood's industrial past has largely shifted and residential living has expanded, the subject property, as you can see, has been significantly underutilized.
59,000 square feet sit here on Main Street abutting the Schuylkill River.
Shahab Investment and Michael have planned to take that lot and turn it into what you see right here.
We're looking at the water's edge.
We're looking at a mix of public and private in terms of engagement and people who are enjoying this natural resource.
You can see a new six-story building, blood-resistant, responsibly built residential and commercial, designed by the Philadelphia Architectural Firm of SGRA Architects, to include 115 residential dwelling units, ground floor office commercial space, that would be off of Main Street, and we'll go through that, 46 off-street automobile parking spaces.
39 bicycle parking spaces, and off-street loading. Let's begin, however, with the zoning map.
Here you can see the subject property right next to the river. Before we go to the notice of
refusal, consider the underlying zoning, ICMX, industrial commercial mixed use. This, we would
submit, is not in line with the blend of historic residential, row homes, the central business
district, which is looking for some new life, and also new recent multi-family, multi-story
development. Additionally, given the narrowness of Main Street itself, industrial uses, which
were once so prevalent, are no longer suitable for these sites. Why? Truck access is highly
difficult. Loading and unloading creates traffic jams along Main Street. It's proven disruptive.
We've learned this in discussions with the community.
We've learned it from many on-site visits to the property.
Here is the instructive document, the notice of refusal, which was amended some time ago.
By the way, for those of you who like to study notices of refusal carefully, the way in which this notice of refusal was drafted,
which Ms. Emerson and I have discussed, is slightly unusual in that the notes to the ZBA
at the bottom contain some of the amended language. That has nothing to do with the applicant. It was
the decision of the zoning examiner. Refusal number one, I'd like to go through the three
refusals. Residential living is prohibited in the district. The subject property is located,
however, nearby to residential housing stock, local businesses desperate for patrons. It's
situated on prime waterfront, slated for walking trails and recreation.
The proposed development would enhance and create positive synergies.
Additionally, with this transportation diagram, you can see the site over here in green,
Main Street in blue. This is a natural transit-oriented development. I don't mean that
in the legal sense of the word, but I just mean it is set up to take advantage of Philadelphia's rich
public transportation infrastructure with a bus stop along Main Street within walking distance
of regional rail. And you can also see the Wissahickon Transit Center here in orange
to the right lower section of the screen.
The transitioning nature of Main Street
The transitioning nature of Main Street and the proximity to other residential development
and the proximity to other residential developments
would render industrial use on this site unfeasible and undesirable, and common sense
would dictate that the proposed multifamily residential is most consistent with the residential
character of the surrounding neighborhood rather than steadfast adherence to an obsolete zoning
classification at this location. Refusal number two, going back for a moment. Height. This is
complicated due to the floodplain. The neighborhood commercial area overlay imposes a 38-foot height
requirement above the regulatory flood elevation of 12 foot 1 inches, which equates to a little
over 50 feet in height. The variance thought is therefore 24 feet, 4 inches in scope, in magnitude.
And we will go into that closely for you as I go through the exhibits. Here is a massing and site
context. You can see the proposed development in the context of Main Street. Remember, just beyond
the property is a separate surface parking lot and a variety of uses. Also, immediately across
from the property, the property owner lends their support, which we'll show later. But let's talk
about height limit. This must be taken into considerable context with a growing awareness
concerning responsible development in the flood-prone areas.
Engineer Clayton Smith of Taylor Wiseman & Taylor
has provided guidance to SGA architects
in the proposed building design,
including dry floodproofing at the first floor,
elimination of underground parking,
best practices such as these actually speak
to raising up the living spaces out of the zone of danger,
making structure higher so that it can better withstand flood weather events.
Here you can see, in addition, that the economics of these investments in advanced technology
speak to what is the minimum variance necessary to allow a project to come out of the ground
which has not been able to get out of the ground for all of these years.
And although we understand that there are differences with each project in the area,
you can see surrounding the subject property several other projects that have moved forward
at what I think can reasonably be described as a similar scope and scale.
Pardon me as I move back to the notice of refusal just to go over the last refusal, which is the waterfront setback.
A 50-foot setback is required.
So let's put that into context here with this plan before you.
Such a setback, and you can see the 50-foot waterfront setback and the red line.
And this is the entire property around here. Such a setback would effectively amount to a taking, rendering the subject property essentially useless.
Longstanding principles of law recognize that a property owner has a fundamental right to a reasonable use of his or her property.
This is not self-imposed hardship. This is the sort of case that zoning attorneys really find so fascinating because this is a burdened property.
However, the proposed plans demonstrate the reasonableness of the pending proposal.
The site is 59,312 square feet.
Without variance relief, only 22% of the total site could be used.
The variance process that we are seeking that this board approve allows the board the opportunity to ensure that the developer is taking appropriate safeguards to reasonably make use of his property with the minimum variance necessary.
Stated differently, what I'm suggesting, Mr. Chairman and members of the board, is that this waterfront setback variance appropriately is bringing development proposals to the board to carefully review what is appropriate to allow a property to be used while meeting the intent of the
to allow a property to be used while meeting the intent of the provision.
So in this case, speaking to minimum variance necessary,
we ask for permission, as I've highlighted, to use 44% of the site,
not 50, 60, 70, 80, et cetera, et cetera, 44% of the site
when the strictures of the code without review would only allow 22%.
We take flood preparedness and flood resiliency really seriously.
Under the direction of flood resiliency expert Clayton Smith,
these are just a few of the extra steps being taken to meet and exceed best practices for development on the waterfront.
Some have said, what safeguards are in place? How do we know that you're going to do this? You should have everything in place right now.
We are committed in all reasonable ways to make this happen. It doesn't make sense for us at this point in time, July 16th, when approvals are pending, to have every temporary parking area set up, etc.
We are making a commitment to do it and it's in our best interest. Furthermore, as you'll see in the plans, Michael is planning on moving his headquarters to this site to be an on-site presence, which really means a lot in terms of being available, being the face of this project, taking responsibility.
In partnership with a phenomenal design team, Michael Al-Haddad has proposed, albeit at great expense, the project budget is estimated at $45 million, a first-class reimagining of this block.
The zoning plans are before you.
I know it's a little difficult to see.
When we get into floor plans, I think we'll have some better images to take a look at.
But here you have two structures.
one here on the right one on the left courtyard getting through for public and for residents
and you can see the parking spaces proposed 46 proposed 29 required under the zoning code
here's another image of site plan and here are elevations showing that open courtyard
between the buildings. There are skywalks above the open courtyard to connect the two buildings
to make them function as one, which is a really nice feature. And here is a cross-section of the
buildings. The residence breakdown is proposed for 59 one-bedroom homes, 56 two-bedroom homes,
So about equal. And the ground floor, as I mentioned, not residential, entirely dry, flood proofed.
Moving to the proposed floor plans, and this better shows really the site plan as well.
The ground floor consists of residential lobby entrances, parking, a little bit of parking for Michael's offices, and loading.
You can see the courtyard access off of Main Street through to the river and office space to reactivate Main Street in a way that certainly the parking lots has not been able to do.
here are floor plans showing the residential living floors raised up out of uh the floodplain
and the skywalks that i mentioned in yellow to connect the two buildings
also the rooftop is being used to amenitize the experience to have another way to enjoy
Scenic Main Street one direction and Schuylkill River in another direction for residential use.
Above, in the lower left-hand corner, above parking is a non-occupiable green roof.
Brian Haynes has designed landscaping for flood resiliency and durability along both the riverfront and Main Street.
you can see the plantings along Main Street and you get a better sense here
And you get a better sense here through the concrete unit pavers of what it would be like to walk out here.
through the concrete unit pavers of what it
Once again, whether or not the city and other authorities are able or are not able to establish a river walk, there at least will be one in front of the property for all to enjoy and for which the developer will take responsibility.
And here, before we get to Drs. Cohen and Angelides, and a little bit more on the record,
I apologize that this is a lengthy one, I wanted to go through four conceptual renderings.
What you'll see with these renderings is really placemaking transformation,
tying into the hopeful walking trail.
So, here you see a view from Main Street towards the river, the activation at the riverfront,
and here Main Street, where this particular section of Main Street really is not the best
that Maniunk and Main Street offers, and this brings something good back to that.
At this point in time, I'd like to ask that Dr. William J. Cohen please raise his virtual hand
to briefly go through highlights of the report that has been submitted to the Zoning Board of
Adjustment. Dr. Cohen, would you please raise your virtual hand?
William Cohen has been allowed to speak.
Dr. Cohen, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yes, my name is William J. Cohen, W-I-L-L-I-A-M, C-O-H-E-N.
Swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Please proceed, counsel.
Thank you.
Good morning, Dr. Cohen.
Thank you for being present.
As you and I had discussed, I have your brief PowerPoint in front of me.
If you would please give an overview of the highlights of your findings to the board,
and I would be happy to advance your slides as you move along.
Very good. I was asked to do a...
Excuse me. This is Hillary. One minute.
Can we promote Dr. Cohen to a panelist so that he can turn on his video?
Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Emerson.
I know he put on a necktie for this event.
Yeah, yeah.
Let me see what I have here.
Am I on now?
Thank you for bearing with us while we figure out this technical issue.
he should be coming in now as a panelist thank you very much
i don't know why uh
you're not able to turn on your video dr cohen hi mr laver i'm trying
start my video oh there you are there you are okay excellent please proceed dr cohen am i okay now
Can you see me? All right. Yeah, we can. Okay, great. Okay, let me start. I was asked to look
at this project, the site, and evaluate it from a planning, a land use planning and zoning analysis
perspective. So let me just summarize the report that I presented to Mr. Labor and, and the
principles of the firm that did the work. I think it's important to get a general perspective
of the growth pattern that Maniang has faced historically. So we have a strong industrial
past that greatly shaped this community, and we have a mixed use present that depicts a diversity
of land use functions and activities.
And I think anyone who's visited Manion
and I think anyone who's visited Manion or lives in Manion certainly understands and appreciates
or lives in Manion certainly
that. So I think really a proposed development at 3900 Main Street should be considered a view of
three criteria. First, historical development patterns. Second, established planning policies
of the city of philadelphia and then finally current land use demands
so the overview of the proposed land use uh mr labor covered it much more comprehensively uh
i think the the important thing here is that we're talking about a proposed
development to convert vacant land to a socially and economically viable land use
Next slide.
Site plan, you've already seen that, so we can move on.
What I did was I looked at the government and neighborhood council reviews of the project, beginning, of course, with refusal by the Department of Licenses and Inspection.
And as you know, the three reasons the project was denied and the basis for applying for the variances is that we need dwelling units allowed, no dwelling units are allowed in an industrial district, a height requirement, and the setback requirement, which Mr. Labor has covered rather extensively, so I don't need to go over that.
But what I called out of the government reviews is that the Civic Design Review Committee, when it issued its report at its review, incorporated comments and recommendations from both its professional staff and the Manionk Neighborhood Council.
And what we can see is that there are three categories of concerns that were identified.
Essentially, flooding issues, parking in a flood-prone area, and urban design components.
Next slide, please.
So let's begin by just providing a basis for the historical development patterns in Manion.
The strong industrial base, as most people are aware, was the foundation for what has become Manny Oaks development pattern that persisted in the late 18th and early 19th centuries.
That industrial pattern, of course, has changed. Industrial activity subsided, and many of those unused structures were either demolished or their individual sites were redeveloped for non-industrial use.
Here are some historically based images of the area, which I've really found to be quite
interesting.
In red, go back to the other one, Mr. Laver, please.
This is the general location of the project site, and as we know, in 1907, we still had
a pretty strong industrial base in the community.
Next slide, please.
a picture of the industrial
factories if you will that prevailed a property map showing the location of the project
and finally the existing site as it looks today
looking at the comprehensive and district planning that the city promotes that affects
or impacts this project uh there are three plans that uh that i think are important to be aware of
the philadelphia 2035 plan the lower northwest district plan which includes manionk of course
and the Wissahawken Gateway, which is a plan in progress to create a mixed-use area emphasizing
new commercial and residential opportunities, as well as transportation services and recreational
trails. And I think it's important to be aware that we're in a different age than we were before.
things have changed. And in order to stay relevant to the change, we need to be, I think,
cognizant of new development opportunities. What I did was I developed what I'm calling a land use
planning compatibility index. And I think this really probably is the real key focus of my
analysis. What I did was, and if you'll permit the next slide, Mr. Laver, please.
What I did was, and if you'll permit the next slide, Mr. Laver, please, I summarized the planning parameter from the Philadelphia 2035 Comprehensive Plan.
And then I made a judgment as to does the project meet the parameter and then summarize the characteristics to justify my assessment of whether the project in fact meets the parameter.
So, first planning parameter. Again, these are summary statements from the comprehensive plan. The industrial legacy can provide a strong environment for a diverse mix of activities. Does the project meet that parameter? I think it does.
It's a mixed use development in two separate buildings with five floors of residential
use and limited office use.
Next slide, please.
Next planning parameter is described in the comprehensive plan dealing with underutilized
land, which the plan says is ideal for redevelopment.
Empty lots are locations ripe for change.
Does the project meet the parameter? I think it does.
It fulfills the objective to redevelop underutilized and vacant land.
Next slide, please.
Economic development recognizes the opportunity to redevelop industrial legacy areas with creative land use mixes.
Does the project meet that? Yes, I think it does.
It's consistent with the direction to achieve new economic development opportunities.
Next slide, please. Land management is another planning parameter indicated in the comprehensive plan. To use vacant land within floodplains to create trail networks. Does the project meet the parameter? I think it does.
there's an allocation that has been provided in the plan to establish a public use trail
it would serve as a connection to a future river walk extension next slide please land suitability
is to protect sensitive lands from overdevelopment riverfronts and streams are main concern to be
protected now i responded to that by saying yes and no and here is a summary of the project
characteristics that i think justifies that response the floodplain is clearly a sensitive area
however this parameter is more directed in my opinion to addressing development potential on
green fields green fields are described generally as land that is not developed with buildings
in non-urban areas in built up areas such as we have here right now in mania the challenge remains
to incorporate a flood mitigation element the project includes that that very element
with a flood evacuation plan and some of the points that Mr. Labor has already
presented to the board. Public realm. This is dealing with amenities that create a sense of
place and a quality of life. Does the project meet that parameter? I believe it does because
the project includes several components that are specifically dedicated for public use and
enjoyment, including outdoor public areas and seating, public access through the site to the
riverfront, and public bicycle parking repair stations. So that's my, oh, there's one more.
The Lower Northwest District Plan recommends intensive mixed-use development along Lower
main street does the project meet the parameter it's in the designated area so clearly it does
so i think in an overall summary perspective the planning policies that are established by the city
through its planning mechanism really provide a foundation for understanding how this site can be
redeveloped. I then did a zoning analysis that directed the approach to look at the three
variances that are being requested to be granted. Use, height, and setback. Mr. Lehrer has already
presented a fairly in-depth discussion about this, so let me just...
presented a fairly in-depth discussion about this.
So let me just go through this rather quickly.
There are two perspectives that are relevant in addressing requested zoning variances.
First, the reality of an existing hardship that was not created by the current property owner.
And that really is the foundation for the Board of Adjustment's justification in granting a variance.
The configuration of this project site is locked in between Main Street and the Schuylkill River.
The historical development pattern in this part of Manionk had been intensively developed for industrial activity.
However, over time, the site has become vacant, thus opening up the potential for new mixed-use development.
Again, I think, again, this further shows a consistency with the planning thrust in the city.
Second, based on the policies of the city's comprehensive plan, the zoning code specifically states that the recommendations of that plan shall be considered by the commission and zoning board as a factor in making any decision on a zoning permit application on a topic covered by the adopted plan.
So, you know, obviously it's a charge to the board to take into consideration, very serious consideration, the planning policies that have been established.
The variance for use.
This requested variance is to permit residential and limited commercial development in an industrial zone.
And a comparative situation exists just south of the project at 3750 78 Main Street, the Bridge 5 Condominium.
You may be familiar with that.
It's a seven-story building containing 60 dwelling units, zoned ICMX, which is similar to the zoning of the proposed project for 3900 Main Street.
So we have a nice comparative situation here.
Here's a photograph of Bridge 5 Condominium.
just down the street so approval of the use variance in my view would be consistent with
a contemporary evolving land use pattern in this part of main street it would also be consistent
with the land use policies as previously described from the city's comprehensive plan
the lower northwest district plan and the current thrust of the wissahick and gateway planning
to encourage a mixed-use area.
The variance for height.
And I looked at this, and I had a little smile on my face
because height has always been, when I've dealt with zoning issues in the past,
has always been one of those judgment call variables, if you will.
What's too high?
What is too high?
But I'd like to think of it more in the context of scale.
What is the scale that's being proposed?
And does that scale seem to be somewhat compatible with what may be around it?
Or how the land use is changing over time?
So the height requirement to increase the building level, I think,
is a perfectly consistent and reasonable variance
to grant in this situation.
Setback.
Well, setback would, as required
under the existing regulations in the zoning code,
would obviously, and I think Mr. Labor
made this point rather clearly,
would effectively render the site undevelopable.
Let me just interject parenthetically that the zoning requirements and most standard zoning codes, including the city of Philadelphia, are really arbitrary standards.
They developed over time, not based upon any kind of scientific calculation or judgment.
They were just simply numbers that literally were pulled out of the sky.
There's a new effort that's been circulating in planning and design circles over the last several decades.
That's called urban form zoning.
or looking at more traditional approaches to design a site based upon
approaches to design a site based upon specific design parameters, rather than simply applying
mathematical numbers. And I think the setback is a clear example of that.
It's also important, I think, to be aware that any development on this site will be subject to
flooding regardless of the setback requirement so anything that's going to happen here in the future
even if it does comply with the the prescriptions for setback height use etc in the zoning code
they're going to have to be dealing with with flooding and i think the again as i mentioned
earlier and mr labor did point out the the flooding mitigation program or plans really
give an assurance that this site will be developed sensitively and will provide a reasonable
location for people to live so what i conclude is that as a result meeting the arbitrary
mathematical standards of the zoning code for setback usurps creative development and
would perpetuate a hardship for any potential development, whether it's this project or
another project.
Next slide, please.
So in order to address the flooding issue, the applicant has submitted a hardship diagram
that shows, again, the dimensional relationship between the allowable building area, the land
areas within the setback and the floodway and mr labor has already covered that to some degree
next slide please
so my conclusion is that a proposed mixed use development for this site at 3900 main street
could not happen without the request of variances
any development would in all probability face the same challenge
The physical configuration of this narrow rectangular site does have development potential, but it's really going to require design creativity.
I think this proposed project does meet that goal, and I think it would be a socially and economically viable land use for Mania.
Now, Mr. Labour, in giving you some of my credentials, indicate that I'm a professor.
Well, as a professor, I give grades all the time.
How many have I given in the past?
I can't count that high.
If I had to grade this project, I would give it an A.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the board.
Thank you, Dr. Cohen.
I'd like to move quickly to promote Dr. Peter Angelides as a panelist, please.
He will be giving a very brief economic impact analysis.
Dr. Angelides, please raise your virtual hand for panelist purposes.
Mr. Labor, before we go on, Bridgeview, did I see that's 90 feet?
Yes, yes, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you.
Certainly.
Peter Angelides has been promoted to panelists.
Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yes, here I am. My name is Peter Angelides.
Peter, P-E-T-E-R, last name A-N-G-E-L-I-D-E-S.
Do you swear or firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Thank you.
Good morning, Dr. Angelides.
In the interest of time, would you please provide a high points overview of your findings
regarding the tax and economic impact of the proposed development at 3900 Main Street?
Certainly I will.
And these are based on the plans as provided, which I think the board has heard today.
The development cost is estimated to be approximately $45 million.
And I have calculated several types of benefits.
The quick overview, I've looked at property taxes, wage taxes, both from the perspective
of the building operating for the next 50 years.
I've also looked at construction benefits
and the benefits of operations of economic activity
going on inside the building
and a broader, what are the benefits
to the broader community?
So property tax, the property tax will come
as from any construction,
a property tax is based on the value of the improvements,
Based on comparable properties, the value, we estimate that the assessed value of the
We estimate that the assessed value of the improvements will be approximately $39 million.
In other words, that's what the assessor will come along and assess it for.
That's the value of the improvements above the current value of the land.
This property is subject to the tax abatement, and it's a new construction tax abatement.
And so it starts in year one at 100% and goes down 10% every year to year 11 after the building opens when there's no more abatement.
In the first year, as you can see on the sheet, and also really year two, the first year of taxes, the property will generate approximately $53,000 in taxes, 24,000 of which will go to the city and 29,000 of which will go to the school district.
excuse me yes uh this is uh commissioner gaston um i'm sorry i can't see this um can we make it a
little larger uh let me see uh member gaston uh bear with me yes that's better and i'm going to
you you can direct me if you want me to be more specific but i'm going to go down to this analysis
here no no it's fine I just couldn't yeah I just couldn't um really thank you there you go and then
you can see at the the very last line um above the above the horizontal uh black line um the
the school district the 240,000 uh and I'm a little bit to your left please um there you go
240,000 is the annual property tax to the uh city 291,000 is the annual property tax to the
school district for a total of about $532,000 in property tax, essentially forever. Once the
abatement rolls off, it'll be more than a half a million dollars of property tax to the city and
school district combined every year. And in the first 11 years, it'll be a total of $2.9 million
of property tax. Now I'm going to turn to the wage tax. So the property tax is from the building
itself, but since it's a multifamily residential building, it will have people living in it,
households living in it, and those households will be earning an income.
And in order to be able to afford the projected rents for the building, they will need to
have in total a little more than $11 million in income collectively in order to be able to afford
the units that they're in. And that the wage tax rate of 3.75%, which you see there, that translates
into a little more than $400,000, $420,000 of wage tax to the city every year. And I think that is a
very conservative estimate because basically we're assuming that everybody buys the most expensive
apartment, rents the most expensive apartment that they can. But in reality, there'll be several
households here who have significantly greater incomes than the rents would imply. So I actually
would expect the wage tax numbers to be greater than that. And those wage tax numbers begin
essentially on day one. As soon as people start moving in, that becomes their home address and
And they pay wage tax to the city on that basis.
In addition, and Adam, if you can pull out just a tiny bit to, I think, the beginning of, or the bottom part of page five.
No, I'm sorry.
I take that back.
Page six, the middle part of page six.
Yeah, that's it.
this refers to sort of the economic activity that gets generated from the building itself,
not from the property tax and not from the tax of the people living there, but from the actual
construction of the property. That's a one-time impact, but it will generate more than 400
full-time equivalent jobs. It'll generate approximately $24.7 million in wages and a total
of $1.4 million in taxes. So that's all economic benefit that comes from the development of the
project. And Adam, if you could pull back just a tiny bit, it's very difficult to see.
the that's good that should be good um and so there you see the the uh total of 67 million
dollars in output generally 407 000 207 um jobs essentially from the construction of the project
jobs, essentially, from the construction of the project. And that includes people working on the
and that includes people working on the project
project itself, but also people who work in the city of Philadelphia who are supplying materials
It's a good thing.
and goods, subcontractors and whatever, but all within the city of Philadelphia, more than 400,
more than 400 full-time equivalent jobs, just from the construction of the project itself.
And then, Adam, if you go to the top of the next page, there's a similar chart that you,
It's at the top of the page you're on right now.
There it is.
And this concerns the annual operations of the building.
So people will be working in the building, both at the front desk, maintenance, and also the folks who are relocating their offices there.
And that, again, is almost $5 billion of output a year, 26 jobs, both in the building and in nearby areas that provide inputs to the workers in the building, and more than a million dollars in wages every year, and a total of $80,000 thereabouts in taxes to the city.
So that that in contrast to my Mr. Cohen, my predecessor, that's an awful lot of numbers.
And I'm going through them very quickly. And they're they're all in the report.
But that some is there are substantial financial benefits to the city and school district from this that I've enumerated.
And then there are moving away from the numbers, other benefits to the community that come from this.
And this building is in the commercial core or near the commercial core of Mani Yonk and also near the Wissahican Transportation Center.
So residents here will go to the businesses in Mani Yonk and support them.
There are 115 units.
That's more than 150, 160 new residents living there and another dozen or so people working in the building.
So we're talking a substantial number of people who can now go to Mani Yonkin, you know, buy cheesesteaks or soda pop or whatever it is that is provided in the neighborhood.
And these folks can now patronize and otherwise they wouldn't be able to because they wouldn't be there.
In addition, the project provides support for the riverfront access or the riverfront trail.
will support the public transit network because it's quite close to train stations and bus stops.
And in addition, overall, pulling the camera way back, this is an increase in housing supply
for the city of Philadelphia in general. It contributes to Mayor Parker's goal of adding
many thousands of new units. And this is a direct way of doing that. And that concludes
my testimony. Thank you, Dr. Angelides. Mr. Chairman and members of the board, I'm just
about finished. A few minutes. I'd like to, you've heard a lot this morning, but I wanted to share
with you the support letter which has been submitted to the board from the immediately
impacted across the street owner of 3901 Main Street, noting that his property is situated
directly across the street and supports the project.
We have support from nearby 3715 Main Street,
noting that the lower Main Street has not experienced
the level of investment and intention as the commercial core
of Mount Young's much-beloved Main Street.
Similar expression of support from the Little Woods
at 4045 Main Street.
And as noted at the start of the hearing,
There is support for the project from minority-owned businesses that would benefit from participation in this amazing project and others who don't not only that support,
but speak to the reputation of working with Michael and the place that he holds in the community for being a good partner.
And finally, there is an expression of a commitment, which is, as you see, signed off on by Ahmed Michael Al-Haddad to a minimum of 20% MBE participation in construction and a minimum of 5% affordability at the subject property based on 60% AMI,
based on 60% AMI, which is not required and just speaks to Michael's commitment and the way that
which is
he seeks to build in communities. Mr. Chairman and members of the board, the authorization of
variance relief will not alter the character of the neighborhood or district or be detrimental
to the public welfare. The proposal fits into the surrounding neighborhood as evidenced by the
district council members' enthusiastic support, in addition to other expressions of support.
This all speaks to the granting of relief being of benefit to the public and within the spirit
of the code. The proposed variance would represent the minimum variance to afford relief and will
represent the least modification possible of the regulations at issue to permit a reasonable use
of a burdened property. I know you're going to hear otherwise on this issue that I've just
mentioned. We took extra time today to provide the data for you and the analysis of the experts
to go to the heart of the refusals and speak to the criteria that this Zoning Board reviews.
The grant of variance relief will not substantially increase congestion in the public streets,
increase the danger of fire or otherwise endanger public health, safety, or general welfare.
The proposed development employs best practices in waterfront development, construction, and
management. Main Street, Maniunk have flooded before. They will flood again. Just as we don't
abandon our beautiful oceans and rivers and lakes, Philadelphia cannot give up on its gem
of the Schuylkill River, Main Street, and Manioc. This project does it responsibly in a way that
checks the boxes in so many important ways. The SGRA-designed plan represents the highest and
best use for this site, in line with the finest locations throughout the city. Post-development
appropriately respects a changing neighborhood with a mix of long-existing uses and new projects
dotting the neighborhood. This will not adversely affect transportation or unduly burdened water,
sewer, school, park, or other public facilities. This feeds into the city's investment in upgrades
to transportation here in Maniunk and along Main Street. And let's get the return on investment
by having the population to take advantage of it.
We have proactively addressed environmental conditions, Mr. Chairman and members of the board. We have the full team of experts available. Stuart Rosenberg is available. The architect, should questions come up.
Our two experts that you heard from are available if there are questions.
We have submitted revised proviso plans with three pages of plans to Ms. Emerson.
If the board is inclined to grant the requested relief, we would respectfully request that
it be based on those three plans.
I would like to, at this time, call upon Ahmed Michael Al-Haddad, the managing partner of
Shahab Investment LLC, to adopt and affirm, please, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Al-Haddad, would you kindly raise your virtual hand to be recognized by Chairman Bergman?
Michael Al-Haddad has been allowed to speak.
Good morning, sir. Could you please state your name as spelled for the stenographer?
Ahmed Michael Al-Haddad.
A-H-M-E-D, Michael M-I-C-H-A-E-L, Al-Haddad, A-L-H-A-D-A-D.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Please proceed, counsel.
Thank you.
Good morning, Michael.
Have you been present during the entirety of this morning's Zoning Board of Adjustment hearing?
Yes, I have.
Would you adopt and affirm the testimony that I and others have offered on your behalf?
Yes, I do.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
I was going to start with questions from the board, but counsel, could you explain that there was a meeting in, I think, 2022 with the neighbors, and we haven't had one since?
Yes, most certainly.
Prior counsel had a public meeting with the coordinating RCO.
As I said, this application dates back to 2021. Months ago, I reached out to leadership of MNC.
I reached out to leadership of MNC and we actually had an on-site meeting to discuss the past history and talk about where the plans were.
I was surprised, Mr. Chairman, to receive correspondence within the last week suggesting that, whoops, there's a contention that another meeting should have occurred.
Our approach is consistently to engage with community and all interested parties. And actually, the record really attests to that when you see how long this has been around. We've gone through the civic design review process, and we were responsive to comments from that process.
So let me be very clear. There was absolutely no bad faith on the part of this development team regarding any interactions with the community.
Although we know that there is a position of opposition from the registered community organization, that does not mean that we won't respectfully continue to speak to them and take phone calls and discussions, etc.
Michael wants to be a part of this community.
As we've stated on the record, he plans to put his offices here.
So I'm somewhat puzzled by that most recent response.
Thank you, counsel.
I appreciate your comments.
Other questions from the board?
Yes, sir.
I have a couple of questions.
So my first question, you said there was going to be 14 offices.
Are all these offices on the ground level or are they scattered throughout the building?
Good morning, Ms. Graham. The office space will all be at ground level. Residential will begin second floor and above. In terms of the number of offices, that sort of depends on user needs, just to be clear on that.
Okay. I know the report is set aside 14. The other question is the AMI units, how diverse are the AMI units?
the AMI units would be absolutely the same as meet all, meet and exceed. That's critical.
Okay. And the SkyBridge, are there, is used to connect both buildings. So are there amenities
in one building that are not in the other? Like what's the rationale behind connecting the
buildings together? Sure. Thank you so much for asking that question. Number one, the reason why
we have sky bridges is to allow the public the optimal view and access to the river so that you
don't have a massive building that is closed off. So we originally started with three buildings,
And we got some feedback that that was too much for Main Street, too much for the district.
Let's let people in, bring them in.
So once we do that, we're balancing the full community experience with the on-site.
The amenities for each building, 100% access to everything.
You go up to the roof, which really is your main amenity floor, and you can get there and enjoy it from either place.
So whether you are in one of the affordable units or a regular unit, you're at one end of the building or the other, everything is open and it's not at all different.
And public access.
Is public access on that Riverwalk 24 hours?
Or is it going to be shut down by the builder?
So I want to answer that question as transparently as possible. There's no thought at this moment of shutting down anything. The idea is the river is an amenity for all to enjoy. It's a public right, if you will.
um i my only hesitation that you may hear in my voice is should there be some overwhelming need
to to change that for the good of the community rather than the specific needs of the building
i think that that would be a discussion to be had um that may be more information than necessary but
But the absolute intention is what you see right here on this plan, that whether it's 8 a.m. in the morning for a jogger or a summer stroll in the evening at 10.
8 a.m. in the morning for a jogger or a summer stroll in the evening at 10 p.m., that that's open.
And lastly, is there consideration to extend that public access, that river walk?
I noticed how it stops near the parking.
So can it be extended beyond the buildings to include the parking area as well to extend public access?
Yeah, this is being designed so that it can not only do that, but that should.
And hopefully, city and other stakeholders do hear what has been done around Bartram's Gardens and other areas in the city where there are public walkways, also in Northeast Philadelphia and other locations, that there can be synergies.
And whatever Michael has designed here can tie into that and can be expanded and added on to.
Right. No, I'm saying for this project, his river walk, his portion of the river walk does not extend beyond the buildings. Would he consider extending the river walk for public access to go all the way near the parking lot space? That's my question.
I see no reason why, why not, if that's feasible and it makes sense.
Thank you.
Thank you, Tana. Any other questions from the board?
uh yes so it's public access uh that's you're talking about the walkway but you were also
talking about the uh roof area how is that no if if it came off that way member gaston that wasn't
my intention the only the only public access would be to the outdoor areas that are open to
the elements, with the exception of just walking under the building through the courtyard to get
to the outside. The rooftop would be for those who enjoy living in the building and their guests.
So did I see what looked like a restaurant or something there in one of these?
in one of the conceptual renderings yes the conceptual renderings is that what i saw up there
or is that just a way to try to show how the rooftop space might be utilized it is to show
how it might be utilized it's taking some inspiration from some other developments in
the city that actually have code approved ways to grill within compliance with the fire
code, of course, and for people who don't have a normal outdoor backyard to be able
to gather with others.
What you saw is not viewed as a commercial establishment.
Absolutely not.
We're not seeking that zoning approval.
It's not in the application.
Okay. And then what about this evacuation plan? What happens if there is flooding? How do people get out of this building?
Right. So we have not not trying to make anybody car sick here or motion sick. I'm just seeking to go back to. Here we go.
So the USGS water alert system will be implemented at the property to have advance notice for all those who live and work to be aware and to evacuate.
The first floor is designed for dry flood proofing to close that down.
Upon moving forward with this approval, we hope Michael is committed to having in place documented relocation of vehicles.
One of the main concerns Ms. Gadsden at CDR and as originally proposed was underground parking and we're aware of other developments in the city that have had and will likely continue to have issues with cars that are below grade.
We've removed that completely. And with this development, upon getting an alert, then the plan would be to flee if there's time, move cars if there's time, but prevent any tragedy.
So that's what you're seeing here. And we're talking about real locations that people are aware of.
And I would concede that we are in a dense.
And I would concede that we are in a dense area.
There's already concerns in Maniunk about a lack of parking, et cetera.
So this would be something that would be documented moving forward and would be part of the plan when somebody comes in to live here.
They would know where they would be going if need be.
so you're talking about the temporary relocation of you say it's how many cars it's 60 cars
uh we have we have right here uh 46 you're gonna do 46 and yes you you will have a plan in place
for where uh these every car can go that's right okay yes and we are i'm sorry i didn't mean to
no no go ahead all right i was just going to follow ms gaston by saying that we say that
even knowing that we are exceeding the required number of on-site parking spaces we're doing that
again out of these months years of discussions with stakeholders many of whom have actually said
that they want one-to-one parking or more which is not feasible here we're balancing
gotcha and then everything is on the you're saying almost everything is lifted up for
It's on the second floor to, I guess, provide for this whole flooding issue, except for, did I hear correctly that the offices that you were talking about are going to be on the first floor?
yes offices would be on the first floor they would be dry flood proofed and uh there would
certainly have to be evacuation there will be no residential living space at the first floor
mechanicals are raised up with the associated costs also of raising those up so that there
are not any issues with mechanicals we are exceeding recommended guidelines for raising up
which is also part of the reason why we're seeking a height variance.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Any other questions from the board?
Counsel, just out of curiosity, the second floor, how many feet up is that?
So, when we get to the second floor, we are looking at 16 feet, eight inches.
Thank you.
Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Embers?
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Yes, Chair. I have a hand up by the name of John Hunter. He has been allowed to speak.
Good morning, Mr. Hunter.
Good morning.
Hi, could you please just state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yeah, my name is John Hunter, J-O-H-N-H-U-N-T-E-R.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, sir.
Thank you, Chair Bergman.
um this is a sort of an extraordinary situation for us in my years of doing zoning matters as the
chair of my neighborhood council i've never come across this um as mr labor mentioned this is a
revised scheme this is a revised scheme that we've never seen before we didn't receive any documents
we know nothing about it it's a completely different scheme from what has been proposed
before. On June 23rd, I wrote to Mr. Labor when we were notified that the hearing was
established for today, and I said, can you confirm that your client intends to proceed
with the scheduled hearing, and if so, whether there are any changes to the scheme that was
reviewed by the Civic Design Review Committee, or alternatively, ask for a further continuous.
And Mr. Labour's response was, in response to your query, the applicant intends to proceed.
There are not any changes that warrant additional review by either LNI or CDR in advance of the scheduled ZBA hearing.
In other words, there was no mention that there's been substantial changes.
In addition, we have not received the submitted package that normally goes in five days before the hearing.
And so I again wrote to Mr. Leiva and asked him for a copy of that submission.
And so I again wrote to Mr. Laver and asked him for a copy of that submission, and we didn't receive it.
So what you're seeing on the screen this morning is the same thing that we're seeing for the first time as well.
This is an obvious bait and switch situation.
We don't have time to respond. I don't see it. It's productive to respond, although I have lots of things to say.
I ask, therefore, that you hold the hearing further and ask Mr. Leiber to send us the submitted information so we can review it, and then we will continue with our comments at a later date.
And I would also ask, and I think it's unfortunate, that board member Johns, who sat in on both of the two CDR meetings, and is not here today, unfortunately, be present when that second part of the hearing is continued.
Hillary?
Mr. Hunter, because Mr. Johns was part of the CDR committee that heard this, he will need to recuse himself from this matter.
He is welcome as a member of the public to listen to the hearing, but he cannot participate as a board member because he had previously been involved in this matter in another capacity.
mr hunter i understand your position but what you heard today what are your thoughts
um as i said there's an enormous number to go into and um let me just say that the core of the
the problem at the cdr meeting was not reviewing the details of the thing which i can go into
If I have more time when I see the scheme, but the scheme, the property, the subject property is in the section of Lower Main Street between Shoes Lane and Ridge Avenue.
That distance is one mile, almost exactly. And between those two points, the river is on one side of Main Street and the elevated railway tracks at 70 feet above Main Street prevent, it's a canyon, it prevents anyone escaping other than going towards Shoes Lane or towards Ridge Avenue.
If and when, as there will be increasingly frequent flooding, the only way to evacuate from this property is to go through impending floodwater as it rises.
Whether the warnings are accurate or not, that is a fundamental problem with this.
And any fancy supposed evacuation procedure which has no legal standing cannot overcome that problem.
There should not be residential dwellings in the floodplain.
And not only that, consider the longer term view, which we have experience now from Hurricane Ida, that not only is Lower Main Street flooded for the actual flood event,
But then the sediment, the damage, the debris means that the power outages means that that section of Main Street from Shows Lane to Ridge Avenue is completely closed.
And it will remain closed until it's been clean, all the sediment and pollution is removed, the damages and security has been completed.
There might be power outages, so there's no streetlights at night.
And yet, in theory, this property will somehow allow residents to continue to reside there. How they will get there is not understood. How they will enter a lobby that's been under 10 feet of water the day before is not explained.
Those are just the basics that were under consideration of the CDR, never mind all the other things that we could go to. It was said today for the first time that we've never heard this.
Okay. All right, Mr. Hunter, I'm going to move on to the next witness. I'm going to hear from witnesses today, and we'll figure out where we stand, what we're going to do at the end of the hearing, okay?
You hear me?
Other questions for the virtual audience?
yes chair i have two hands up william o'brien has been allowed to speak
good morning mr o'brien uh good morning mr chairman can you hear me i most certainly can
could you please state your name and spell for the court sonographer uh william o'brien w-i-l-l-i-a-m
o'brien o-b-r-i-e-n you swear a firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
i do uh just to be sure you're not representing anyone today right i represent nobody in this uh
Just to be sure, you're not representing anyone today, right?
I represent nobody in this.
All right, please. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Please proceed.
I just want to give some context. The building, the apartment building called Bridge Five was referenced earlier.
It's very close. It's a little bit north of this location, but it's within the area that Mr. Hunter just described as being between Shores Lane and Ridge Avenue.
I'm very familiar with that. I'm a zoning attorney. I've had an office on Main Street for, well, since 1985. And in 2002, when the building that's now called Bridge 5 was proposed, it was very similar to this site. It's a very shallow site between Ridge Avenue and the river.
However, the only difference really between the two is that because it was 2002, there was no 50-foot setback from the river.
That zoning code provision was not adopted until 2012.
But other than that, the height, the use, and the setback variances for Bridge 5 are almost identical.
In that case, I represented three civic groups, the Manioc Neighborhood Council, the WSIC and Interested Citizens Association, and the WSIC and Neighbors Civic Association.
They all supported that development, that seven-story development, which was not mixed use.
It was only multifamily.
And they supported it because the developer agreed to shift the building forward.
There is no setback on Main Street in order that there be a 10-foot setback behind it for this public right of way, if and when it comes.
So going back more than 20 years, the civic groups have been insistent on having this 10-foot reserved as development occurred.
And that's what happened. The developer agreed to that. And just for the record, the OPA address for Bridge 5 is 3750 Main Street. The zoning records for Bridge 5 are at 3742 Main Street.
And the refusals there, the variances there, as well as the agreement that was reached with the owner and the three civic groups to allow that to be built, that seven-story apartment building to be built, as long as there was that 10-foot setback.
I hope that's helped.
Mr. O'Brien, thank you.
Mr. Laver, do you have any questions?
No, I appreciate that input. Regarding Mr. Hunter's testimony, I'd like to wait until later, and I won't cross-examine. I'll just make a statement at the end.
Okay, thank you. Questions or comments additional from the virtual audience?
Yes, Chair. I now have three hands up. Elaine Montez has been allowed to speak.
Can you please state your name and spell for the sonographer?
Sure. My name is Elaine Montes, E-L-A-I-N-E-M-O-N-T-E-S.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I do, yes.
Are you a neighbor?
I am not a neighbor. I work for the City of Philadelphia.
All right. Please proceed.
Thanks, everyone, for your time. I'm speaking as the program manager for the City of Philadelphia
Flood Resilience and Compliance Strategy within the Office of Sustainability and the Office of Climate Resilience.
I want to comment in support of the refusals for residential zoning and waterfront setback encroachment
and speak to my disagreement and disappointment with some of the justifications we heard today
that increase risk to life and property.
I'll save my structural comments on extreme issues related to dry floodproofing for more than four feet in height for CDR.
This is a particularly flood-vulnerable area of Philadelphia.
Maniunk is at high risk of flooding, and recent damage and trauma born from remnants of Hurricane
Ida should stay top of mind when considering projects in this area. We're looking at a
neighborhood of Philadelphia in the federally mapped 100-year floodplain, also known as the
1% annual chance of flood hazard area. But a challenge that we see with this data, the tools
and the maps that we use for planning and regulating, federally, statewide, locally, and at
the project scale is that this information is really outdated. It's timely that the city is
updating our comprehensive plan to include information that has changed due to increased
storms. There's two points that I want to make here on this note. The first is about playing
a numbers game. The Philadelphia Water Department analyzed the flows in the Schuylkill River during
Hurricane Ida. The way that Ida compares to outdated data from storms prior to 2001, so if we're
talking about these 20-year periods. Ida was a 65-year event, which equates to about a 1.5%
Ida was a 65-year event, which equates to about a 1.5% annual chance.
Based on data from the last 20 years of storms, including several of those severe events that
we're talking about, Ida was a 30-year event, which is about 3.3% annual chance.
Based on climate projections with a conservative scenario for end of century, which is only
75 years away and is the useful life of any proposed project here, Ida was a six-year
event, which is about 16.7% annual chance. These numbers feel pretty hard to relate to,
so I'll save everyone the excitement of how the math works out. But this estimation with recent
data is basically a coin flip probability of seeing again that 30 feet of flood water in this
area over a 25-year period. Using information about storm frequency and intensity over the
lifespan of this project, there's a 99% chance of seeing this Ida-level flooding in a 25-year period.
The second point related to zoning is focused on the actual and realized results of these numbers.
During Hurricane Ida, we saw water rescues from riverfront complexes just a few hundred feet away.
The risk to people living in these apartments and to the city staff and local volunteers is real.
Not only is it real, but it is poorly communicated.
In Pennsylvania, we have clauses in our flood risk disclosure laws that make it nearly impossible to require stricter measures
to protect or inform renters locally.
We've heard this time and time again
that risk, evacuation protocols,
and post-event resources
fall through the cracks across the board,
but especially in large 100-unit projects like this.
The reference by the project attorney
to beachfront properties and resorts
as examples of smart development
is frankly nonsensical.
I'm sure you don't go to luxury trips
to the Bahamas during a hurricane.
In fact, you probably have the option
to cancel your trip.
We're talking about permanent residency here,
not vacation. Finally, I'd like to include perspective on waterfront setback encroachment
and the use of fill in a flood-prone area and increasing obstructions, specifically where
waterways are already restricted, only transfers flood risk downstream. The more fill and obstructions
we use in the floodway and flood fringe to protect our buildings, the more we exacerbate
flood risk in the neighborhood. In closing, allowing residential use of this area, including
encroachment of an intentionally established setback is unsafe and irresponsible. The city,
and I can attest to this, is working tirelessly to reduce residential flood risk, and this project
is directly counter to our responsibility we have to our residents. I don't oppose redevelopment and
reuse of this site. Maniunk should be invested in and developed appropriately. Protecting people,
our residents and our first responders, and property from known and experienced flood risk
should not be a debate thank you uh mr laver do you have comments or questions uh i have great
respect for ms montes and she and i have worked together in the past i don't i don't have any
cross-examination i just like to point out for the board that um one needs to look no further
than delaware avenue fitler square on the schuylkill river for different treatment regarding
residential development in the city of Philadelphia. We don't have to look at New York City. We don't
have to go further out of the country. And we're really facing a competing vision, a vision that
says, no, this is too risky. It can't work. Or yes, we acknowledge that this is by the water
and requires extra measures. And we're willing to spend the money and the time and the team to
make it work. And that's the case here. And from a zoning perspective, the question becomes hardship
and a property owner's reasonable right to use a property which has sat stagnant for way too many
years for productive use. It's a vision. And as I stated earlier, there are different thoughts on
that. Other questions or comments from the virtual audience? Yes, Chair. I have three
hands remaining. Dawud Bey has been allowed to speak. Good morning, sir. Could you please
state your name and spell for the court stenographer? Dawud Bey, you may unmute yourself.
Okay, Chair, he may be having some difficulty.
Okay, move on to the next person, and we'll check back when we get through the other two.
Tiffany St. Patrick had been allowed to speak.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court's denographer?
hi um tiffany is my first name t-i-f-f-a-y last name's pearsall p-e-a-r-s-a-l-l
Hi, Tiffany.
you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
i do are you a neighbor
looks like she dropped chair okay um do we have another hand yes salim edney has been allowed to
speak i could you please state your name is spelled for the court sonographer yes hello
Hello. My name is Salim Edney, S-A-L-E-E-M, last name E-D-N-E-Y.
Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes, sir.
Mr. Edney, are you a neighbor?
Well, not so close, but I grew up not too far.
Okay, please proceed, sir.
Yes, I truly believe that this will be very good for the community.
And I definitely understand that the flood issue is an issue.
And like I echo Mr. Laver's sentiments in regards to a lot of other places that are in blood prone areas.
I believe it would be good for the community, though. And I'm just in direct support.
I would I would love to see some housing down there.
And I frequent Maniunk, honestly, probably about 15 to 20 times a month, go down there and eat and things of that nature.
Okay. Thank you very much for taking the time to call. Is there anyone else in the audience?
Yes, Chair.
Jasmine?
Dawu, Bay, you may unmute yourself.
Hi, Mr. Bay.
Do we see Mr. Bay?
He may be having difficulties.
He's still not unmute.
Do we have anyone else in the virtual audience?
Ryan Haywood has been allowed to speak.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
My name is Ryan Haywood, spelled R-Y-A-N-A-K-A-Y-W-O-O-D.
Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Sir, are you a neighbor?
Yes, I am.
Please proceed.
Well, I'm actually from the area.
I've been frequenting the area pretty much my whole life, born and raised in Philadelphia.
And through the pandemic, we decided to start a cycling company.
We have the second largest black-owned cycling company based in Manioc and sponsored by Trek and Manioc.
Every week we come, we're based out of Manioc, and we have rides and events through Manioc.
And I just love constantly seeing the development in that area.
And I do understand the flood issue. We actually weathered that ourselves, still hosting rides and events through that period. And I just love the development. I am in support of it.
Thank you so much for taking the time to call us. Anyone else left in the audience?
Yes, Chair. I have three hands remaining. Monty and Tierney have been allowed to speak.
Could you please state your name and spell for the course sonographer?
Good morning, Monty Turney
K-E-A-R
Can you hear me now?
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth
The whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do
Are you a neighbor?
Are you in favor or against the project?
I'm in favor of the project
Thank you so much for taking the time
the calls. Next hand, please.
Tiffany
Purcell has been allowed to speak.
Tiffany,
I tried to swear you once before. Could you
please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
I'm sorry. Sorry, my phone.
No, that's not. It's probably ours.
Both of ours. Thank you. Please spell your name.
Tiffany Purcell. P-E-A-R-S-A-L-L.
First name Tiffany.
Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,
told truth, nothing but the truth?
I do. Tiffany, are you a neighbor?
i have interest in the surrounding area i'm from the area yes tiffany are you in favor of the
project we're against i'm in favor okay um you've heard a lot of comments is there anything else
Okay. You've heard a lot of comments. Is there anything else you could offer?
you could offer
Thank you.
I would just like to say the development, you know, this development project would bring together architectural innovation, community amenities, transportation access, and economic revitalization that is so needed.
You know, I think it would be a significant improvement for the neighborhood and the city as a whole, which, you know, we all know the state of it.
So thank you for taking your time.
No, thank you for calling us. Is there any other hands?
Yes, Chair.
We have three hands remaining.
Daryl Townsend has been allowed to speak.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
E-A-R-R-Y-L-T-O-W-N-S-E-N-D.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Sir, are you in favor?
Are you a neighbor?
Yes, born and raised.
Are you in favor or against this project?
I'm highly in favor.
Thank you so much for taking the time to close.
We appreciate your input.
Next hand, please.
Dawoud Bay has been allowed to speak.
Mr. Bay, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Can y'all hear me?
I can.
My name is Dawoud Bay, D-A-W-U-D, last name Bay, B-E-Y.
right do you swear hold on do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but
the truth yes mr bay are you a neighbor no but i'm a community concerned member of the community
are you in favor of this project or against i'm in favor of the projects and i've been listening
to the comments and things like that and i'm in favor of this project because as this gentleman
being a minority developer,
a certified minority developer
in our community,
I believe these type of projects
open the doors
for other small minority companies
like myself.
I'm a general contractor.
I own a company called
Fine Print Construction.
And these type of jobs,
when you're dealing with
other minority-owned businesses,
it creates opportunities for us,
people like myself,
a black and brown developer
or contractor,
to access, you know,
opportunities to get jobs on this type of
project. So I'm for this project 100%.
Thank you, Mr. Bay, for taking time to call us. Next hand, please.
There are no more hands at this time, Chair.
Thank you. David, I'm going to
hold the vote on this.
And Mr. Laver, what I would
I would recommend that
Before we bring this back, you touched base with Mr. Hunter, and what we're going to do is he'll have a chance to review what you said today.
If you would, make sure he has everything, and then we'll create a resumptive hearing.
The resumptive hearing will be a chance for Mr. Hunter to respond and then a chance for you to respond.
certainly mr chairman may i make one statement at this time you you most certainly can thank you
uh it's concerning uh that the narrative has purportedly been changed uh the we have a good
process in philadelphia for review of zoning matters and when a developer attempts in good
faith to revise plans based upon input from advisory civic design review and input by
a community and is not creating new refusals, but is actually reducing the intensity of the
refusals. It is rather unfortunate to have voices casting that as a bad thing, though
So we we will certainly abide by the board's direction and proceed accordingly.
Is with the resumption hearing be limited to giving the RCO only the opportunity to offer its position?
I'm unclear regarding. So, so, so, so, Hillary.
um yes i think i think we've had a pretty robust community input so i i would uh i would like to
see that we just have the rco response i think that's fine mr chair um we'll we'll schedule a
resumption hearing accordingly for um the rco to provide feedback after their review of the
um the rco to provide feedback after their review of the plans as well as the response to that by
plans as well as
mr laver well i i don't know if planning wants to give its position today or if they would also like
an opportunity to further review the plans before giving their position david david i thought is that
okay david we we can do either way i'm prepared to testify today but i can wait as well if the
chairman prefers why don't we let him wait and we'll just take his testimony then okay sounds
good so respectfully my understanding is that we'll hear one voice from the rco and one voice
from planning thank you mr chairman and then obviously you obviously you have a chance thank
you sir um thank you is there anyone in the uh virtual audience whose uh 9 30 case has not been
call. There were no hands, Chair.
Thank you, everyone, including the neighbors who called
and also Mr. Labor. I think we got a lot accomplished today. Thank you very much.
Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you, everyone.
Have a great day, everyone.
Have a great day.
Bye, y'all.
See you tomorrow.
Thank you.