COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC PROPERTY AND PUBLIC WORKS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, October 10, 2007 1:30 p.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE, CHAIR COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO BILL 070793 - An ordinance authorizing the Commissioner of Public Property to enter into the amendment of four cable television franchises operated by subsidiaries of Comcast Corporation... BILL 070794 - An ordinance authorizing the Commissioner of Public Property, on behalf of the City, to enter into a lease agreement between the City and the Philadelphia Authority for Industrial Development providing for the leasing to PAID of a certain City owned building located at 2529-33 West Lehigh Avenue... V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good afternoon. We're going to convene the Committee on Public Property and Public Works. We have a quorum present. To my left, Councilman Rizzo, Councilwoman Krajewski, Councilwoman Tasco and Councilman Bill Greenlee. Will the Clerk please read the title of the first bill. These are companion bills. Just read the title of both bills, and the testimony will relate to both bills.
Bill No. 070793, an ordinance authorizing the Commissioner of Public Property to enter into the amendment of four cable television franchises operated by subsidiaries of Comcast Corporation in order to modify certain of the terms and conditions governing the franchisees' provision of channels, financial support and other support for public access television programming in the City of Philadelphia, including amendment of Franchise Renewal 3 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. Agreements of Comcast of Philadelphia, Incorporated for Franchise Areas I, III and IV, and of Comcast of Philadelphia, LLC for Franchise Area II, all under certain terms and conditions. Bill No. 070794, an ordinance 8 authorizing the Commissioner of Public Property, on behalf of the City, to enter into a lease agreement between the City and the Philadelphia Authority for Industrial Development providing for leasing to PAID of a certain City-owned building located at 2529 through 33 West Lehigh Avenue for further sublease to the Philadelphia Public Access Corporation, a non-profit corporation to be incorporated by the City, all under certain terms and conditions.
Thank you. We'll call our first witness. Ms. Schlotterbeck. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Good afternoon, Councilman, members of the Committee. 4 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. How would you like us to proceed? Does it matter which order we take the bills? Both Joe James and I are capable of one handling one bill and the other the other. It's up to you how we present these, because they are companion.
Just proceed briefly. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Briefly. I like that. Bill 070793 is an amendment to the cable franchise for all four operators, subsidiaries of Comcast Corp, in order to modify certain terms and conditions governing the franchisees' provisions of channels, financial support and other support for public access television programming in Philadelphia, including an amendment of the Franchise Renewal Agreements of Comcast for Franchises I, III, IV and Comcast, LLC for Franchise Area II. The second piece is the 5 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. companion ordinance which authorizes me as Commissioner, on behalf of the City, to enter into a lease agreement between the City and PAID providing the use of a City-owned building for the purposes of the Public Access Corporation's use, and that is 2529 to 33 West Lehigh Avenue. That's pretty much a summary of the two bills.
Good afternoon. I'm prepared to give testimony on Bill 15 No. 070793. Pursuant to discussions between members of the City Administration, Comcast executives and representatives from the Philadelphia Community Access Coalition, the City is proposing to amend the existing agreements with a framework that reflects the best plan to implement a public access television program. Based upon the revisions to Appendix E for each of the four franchise areas and 6 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. recommendations of the City's cable consultant, it is my recommendation that City Council give its approval for this transaction. Bill No. 070793 was introduced September 27, 2007. Representatives from Philadelphia Community Access Coalition approached the City over two years ago with a business plan to demonstrate the rationale for a new look at resolving the issues for moving forward with public access television. The City agreed to pursue a new approach and engaged representatives from Comcast in continuous discussions that would be necessary to reach mutually acceptable terms. Comcast not only agreed to fulfill the full financial obligations of the current franchise, but also agreed to restructuring the terms of the current franchise agreement that will result in terms that will alleviate any financial impact to the City's General Fund. The amendment of the cable 7 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. franchise agreement will retain significant terms of the existing agreement, along with new benefits that will reflect the advancements in technology since the original plans of the early 1980s. The public access television program will continue to consist of five channels. However, in keeping with the current cable programming, one channel, which is an analog channel, and the four remaining channels will be digital channels. Included in the new terms are provisions for the use of high definition programming and the use of Video on Demand capacity on Comcast's platform. The financial commitment has been restructured to provide an initial one-time grant of $1.8 million, which is roughly $450,000 per franchise area, and a second one-time grant of $900,000, which is $225,000 per franchise area, within two years of the initial grant. In addition to the one-time grants, there 8 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. will be an annual support of $500,000, or $125,000 per franchise area. Comcast will provide a number of public service announcements, along with offering purchasing support for equipment at most favorable prices that are available to Comcast from its suppliers. In conclusion, the terms of the cable franchise amendment to which Comcast has agreed is acceptable to the City. I respectfully ask the Committee that the rules of Council be waived to allow this bill to be reported out of Committee and have its first reading at the next Council session. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Mr. James, let's take it from the perspective of a consumer. Four digital channels, one analog. At the end of the day, what does 9 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. that mean to the consumer?
Well, what that is intended to accomplish is in the spirit of the original agreement, it's to provide that most customers, just about all customers, have basic cable programming, which the analog channel will be available to them, and as technology is changing, everyone is moving to a digital platform, and Comcast as well. So the opportunities for a consumer is the ability to be able to see the analog programming at no additional cost, and as most customers are subscribing to a digital platform and Comcast is moving to a digital platform, it will ensure that the public access programming will have the opportunity to carry forward and stay consistent with technology.
Again, from the consumer's perspective, what channels are going to be utilized and what programming may be lost as a result of 10 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. the five channels?
At the current plans, there is no programming that's going to be lost. Channel 66 is going to be the analog channel, which is currently Comcast's leased access channel. They are going to relocate their leased access channel to a different number. The digital channels are in the 866 series, which today there's no programming on and that's where they plan to put the digital programming.
As we know it, the Channel 66 that -- I think it's different channels, depends on where you are. I might be wrong on that. But we will not lose seeing the public hearings and all that?
No. The public hearings, which is the government access channel, is Channel 64. That will stay. The other educational channels that are on there will stay where they currently are. There is no change to them. It 11 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. will not be affected.
Right. And the one channel, which is Channel 66, is for people who want to lease space on the programming by advertising whatever. That's just being moved to a different number, so that they will still have the opportunity to have leased access programming.
Real briefly, one quick question. With respect to content, who determines what content will be in terms of any offensive language or any libelist language? Who is going to make sure that the people don't get on the station and beat us 12 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. politicians to death?
Well, I don't see why anyone would want to beat our politicians to death.
I don't think that's it. But the goal is that once the -- as the ordinance gets passed, there will be a creation of a non-profit organization called the Public Access Foundation. They will be responsible for determining the content and the programming and how the programming is structured, as in most jurisdictions today. The way the rules apply today is that as far as obscenity and decency, that kind of programming is already restricted by federal law, and it's no 21 different on public access. The Public Access Corporation that's going to be put in place, which will be made up of directors that are appointed by members of City Council, as 13 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. well as the Administration, and the idea is to have a set of bylaws that we have responsible people who have a broad basically experience to make the decisions about what programming is acceptable and not acceptable. But libel and slanderous material is not permitted by law. Decency laws govern other things. Certain adult content programming is governed by time and place. So the rules of most public access corporations that deal with certain adult content is to schedule it on off hours where children would not have access to it anyway. And, like I said, most of the programming structure requires people to go through a certain amount of training and certain amount of structure, which in most cases usually eliminates the need for someone who just wants to jump on the screen and take off their clothes and say something off color. 14 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC.
Thank you. Any other questions by members of the Committee of these witnesses? (No response.)
You just made a statement about the decency standard. Isn't the standard different on broadcast versus cable?
In other words, what the network carries is obviously different than what cable carries.
Right, but the same federal decency law and obscenity law applies to everyone. I mean, there are certain things that are on cable, there's a little more -- they have a lot more 15 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. latitude about what type of programming they put on, but it's still determined by the people who control the content. In this case, this will be controlled by the people here who are part of that non-profit organization that determines what's acceptable and what's not acceptable.
Isn't it a given, though, that language is different on cable? An example, the Sopranos is on cable and the language in there is different than you would see on a regular NBC, ABC, CBS, right?
Well, it's getting close, because on ABC and NBC, the commercial broadcasters -- it's generally after 9 o'clock is when you see a lot more latitude in this type of language that is used on commercial TV. But on cable, the whole purpose of HBO's and the Showtime's and that type of programming is to have the freedom of expression, and they have a tendency to say more things 16 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. and do more things than you would not normally see on regular commercial TV.
I think this falls in the category where people have a right to freedom of expression, but there are certain rules that you can establish that say if you want to have adult content or adult language, you're going to use certain language, assuming that it's not indecent or offensive, is that you schedule that programming in your later hours of the channel line-up when, I said, most kids would not usually have access to it. So you put it on at maybe 2 o'clock in the morning or you put it on at 10 o'clock at night where adults are around to see it, and you usually put some sort of disclaimer saying this contains adult language and content.
Any other questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)
There being none, thank you very much for your testimony. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Councilman, for the record, I want to make sure that it's understood that Bill 13 No. 070794 as well as Bill No. 070793, that collectively we are asking for the rules of Council to be suspended so that this could be -- to permit the first reading at the next session.
Yes. Mr. James mentioned that in his testimony. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: But I thought he only did one of them.
Okay. So you want both? 18 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Yes. I want to make sure for the record.
It was understood. Thank you. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Thank you.
At this point I'd like to introduce -- I guess they really need no introduction at this point, but for the record, Sharon Powell Lee, who is Director of Government and Community Affairs for Comcast in Philadelphia, and to my right is Robin Holts, who is the Regional Director for Government Affairs for Pennsylvania and Delaware. We're appearing before you today to ask your consideration to approve the proposed amendment to the 19 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. cable franchises for Philadelphia. B requires approval for changes in the manner or type of channels or access facilities. Together with our colleagues we believe we've developed the right formula to have a successful public access operation here in Philadelphia. PEG programming, which is public access, educational and government program, was provided for in the cable franchises for Philadelphia in 1984. The government and educational programming have been aired over the cable system in Philadelphia since that time. With the resolution of key issues, the time is ripe for public access programming to join government and education access programming on cable in our city. The technological advances and innovations which occurred over the years could not have been envisioned when the current 20 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. franchises were approved, and we believe, therefore, that we have developed an approach to best leverage those technological developments to the advantage of the public access operation. After many discussions and many months of talks, the Department of Public Property and the Public Access Coalition and Comcast propose to revise some of the key provisions of Appendix E. This will result in significant benefits for all of the stakeholders. The channel allocation: The franchises call for the allocation of five channels for public access programming. The number of channels allotted will not change, but we propose to launch four of those five channels utilizing the modern digital technology. This will afford the Public Access Corporation the opportunity to take advantage of state-of-the-art technology in the form of Video on Demand, which is also known as VOD. The VOD enhancement 21 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. we propose to grant for public access programming will make its launch more robust because of its presence on such a popular programming platform. We believe our customers will enjoy viewing public access on digital, along with the convenience of having that content at their fingertips through our Video on Demand product. 7 million for capital facilities and $500,000 in annual operating support. The franchises provide for the offsetting of the annual support payments against the franchise fees. We propose to change that with this amendment. Under our proposal, the annual support to public access will not be offset against the franchise fees. The funding model in the franchises call for one main studio and eight smaller satellite sites scattered over the four franchise areas. The 22 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. Department of Public Access and the Public Access Coalition and Comcast agree that this is not an efficient use of our resources. We propose that all of the capital funding be invested in a single modern facility that is centrally located and accessible by public transportation. This change enables the Public Access Corporation to invest all of its financial resources into the creation and maintenance of a state-of-the-art facility. We at Comcast are proud to be part of this exciting endeavor. The residents of Philadelphia can join the ranks of citizens of other major metropolitan communities around the country who have public access programming. If approved, Philadelphia could have the proud distinction of being one of the first public access operations to have a presence on the Video on Demand platform.
The proposed revisions to the 23 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. franchise Appendix E include benefits to the City of Philadelphia, its residents, the Public Access Corporation and Comcast. Before closing, I would like to take an opportunity to thank the City officials who we worked with, including the Commissioner, Joan Schlotterbeck, Joe James, Frank Punzo, Robert Sutton and Mike Athay, for all of their hard work and commitment to this project. We would also like to thank our friends from the Public Access Corporation, because we are friends now. Thank you for allowing us to address you this afternoon, and we are prepared to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you.
Any questions by members of the Committee for 24 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. these witnesses?
Will a customer that doesn't have digital service, will they be denied the access?
No, because as Mr. James said, that will be -- the first channel launched is going to be analog, so they will be able to see that, but those who have digital will be able to access at any time the Video on Demand. So if you're a basic customer and you don't have the digital or the Video on Demand, you don't have it at your fingertips, as I said, to be able to go back and play City Council, but you can see it and tape it on your digital video recorder, but not on the Video on Demand platform.
Thank you, Councilman. Thank you very much for your testimony.
Thank you. 25 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC.
May we have Danielle Redden, Gretjen Clausing and Jonathan Stein, please.
In order to be a bit more expedient, we're actually going to compress some of our testimonies, and I wanted to see if it was all right if I could invite Sherry Hill and Anthony Riddle to come and join me at the table. My name is Gretjen Clausing and I'm -- oh, sorry.
That's fine. I thought about doing that, consolidating the panel, but I didn't want to be accused of rushing people.
My colleagues from PCAC, Danielle and Jonathan, are behind me. So if there's any questions that they might be able to answer, they're here with us.
That's 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. fine. Thank you. Please proceed.
Again, good afternoon. I apologize. We don't have any public access cupcakes. That really probably should have been in order, but anyway, I'm very pleased to be here on behalf of the Philadelphia Community Access Coalition to testify in support of the creation of public Philadelphia access cable television. Over a decade ago, our coalition started with a small group of citizens concerned that public access television was available in nearly every major American city except Philadelphia. And over the years, PCAC has grown to include over a hundred organizations, including faith-based groups, arts and culture presenters, disability advocates, independent filmmakers, educators, civic organizations, activists, labor unions, consumer groups and countless individuals. Over the decade, our shared 27 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. vision for Philadelphia public access has not wavered. We see it as an electronic greenspace, like a city park, a place away from the noise of commercial programming where people can meet, share information and exchange ideas, and it's ultimately about a multiplicity of exchanges. We see public access cable TV as a way to strengthen the civic engagement and cultural expression among residents and neighborhoods and to build and empower our community through communication and participation in the process of media making, especially for those who have been left out or marginalized by mainstream media. Where public access exists, it is individuals who produce their own programming. They share stories, air information, explore issues, promote dialogue, teach skills and entertain people. Public access provides a valuable means for people to gain access 28 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. to and training in the use of new digital media technologies. It's not about eyeballs, to borrow a term from the commercial media, but about community involvement. It's about providing communities with the possibility to depict positive images of themselves and to tell their own stories and represent themselves in an honest and real manner. Commercial media often marginalizes or misrepresents minority communities, and there's very little commercial programming of substance depicting the lives and concerns of African-American, Asian and Latino communities, women, the elderly or young people. There is even less programming produced by these communities themselves. Participation in public access cable television is an outlet and training ground for everyone regardless of race, creed, religion, age, ability or economic status. The William Penn Foundation 29 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. initiated a study and survey entitled "Public Access and Broadband Technology in the City of Philadelphia" surveying major cultural institutions such as the Philadelphia Museum of Art, the Philadelphia Horticultural Society, Big Brothers/Big Sisters and community-based groups such as Art Sanctuary, Taller Puertorriqueno, Point Breeze Performing Arts Center, the Village of Arts and Humanities and the City's own Mural Arts Program. All of them saw public access as a tremendous opportunity to reach constituents in new and exciting ways. In the report, Congreso de Latinos Unidos sees the potential to cablecast their existing health and educational programming, market programs, provide information and create new opportunities. And the Free Library expressed enthusiasm for the opportunity to cablecast their popular lecture series to a larger City audience. Since Mayor Street's recent 30 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. announcement of the establishment of public access cable television, the Philadelphia Community Access Coalition has received close to 50 proposals for television programs from residents, and dozens of citizens have joined our coalition.
We all look forward to the next phase, the creation of the non-profit to administer the channels, the building of the access facility in North Philadelphia and the year-end launch of Channel 66 with programming produced by and for Philadelphians. We hope that you will vote in favor of all Philadelphians producing and sharing their views and cultural expressions with their neighbors. Thank you for your time this afternoon. And in the spirit of what Kathleen was saying from Comcast, we wouldn't be here today without the tremendous work of folks from the Managing Director's Office, the Mayor's 31 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. Office, Public Property, legal, Finance and our new friends at Comcast. So, again, thank you.
Thank you. Please proceed. State your name for the record.
Good afternoon. My name is Sherry Hill. My name is Sherry Hill and I am the Founder and Director of the Christian Entertainment Fellowship Network, CEFN. CEFN is a non-denominational ministry which seeks to provide spiritually and socially uplifting entertainment fellowship opportunities to adults throughout the Delaware Valley. CEFN joined the struggle with PCAC to get public access TV in the City of Philadelphia in 1999. We were attempting to develop a TV program on 32 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. lease access Channel 66. After experiencing major challenges with getting quality technical assistance and unable to afford the ongoing costs for the TV production, we decided to join forces with PCAC to get public access in Philadelphia. One of the first activities to support PCAC was holding a prayer breakfast to get out the word to CEFN supporters. We also went on a bus trip to tour New York City's public access studio and attended numerous meetings and rallies to support the struggle during the last nine years. PCAC has helped us with getting experience with public access by setting up an opportunity to get some training with Radnor's public access station. However, the travel distance was a bit challenging for us to continue with staying with the project. It is significant to note, however, the project helped us train youth on TV production. 33 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. The City of Philadelphia is in dire need of having public access on Comcast airways. There are a lot of valuable non-profit organizations that have quality programs that need exposure but not able to afford the high cost of advertising and TV production costs. Recently, CEFN developed a health and fitness outreach pilot project. We are looking forward to sharing our message to those who want to make a permanent healthy life-style change. We are happy that we may have an opportunity now to get our message out through an affordable mechanism like public access TV. PCAC has done an outstanding job remaining committed to the struggle to get public access in the City of Philadelphia. They have worked tirelessly in their struggle. CEFN is pleased that their tenacity, perseverance and determination has paid off. We are encouraged that the City of Philadelphia and Comcast, City Council are now willing 34 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. to honor their commitment to have public access in the City of Philadelphia. This is truly a happy day for the City of Philadelphia. Thank you for your attention. (Applause.)
Hi. My name is Anthony Riddle. I'm the Executive Director for the Alliance for Community Media. It's a membership-based organization out of Washington, DC. We represent the more than 3,000 public educational and government access channels around the country. Over the course of a typical year, our members produce about 20,000 hours of new programming per week, which is more than all the broadcasters combined. We aid more than a quarter of a million organizations, community organizations, and governments in getting their message out to the people every year through the use of about 1.2 million volunteers. So 35 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. it's a pretty sizable community that you're getting ready to join, and we're really happy to have you. I came here, I think, in 1996 to testify before City Council. It's been a long time since then. There's been, in some ways, a great emptiness where we've missed Philadelphia, but I think that will disappear immediately and be replaced by a happiness that we'll have in knowing that you're here. I come here to pledge the support of the national organization in every way that we can to give the benefit of the 30 years of experience that we have and everything having to do with PEG channels, both good and bad, how to navigate, all of that. We're more than happy to provide as much help as we can in that area. I note that you're at -- you have a couple of advantages over everybody else. You have the advantage of technology, which people have been 36 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. talking about. When I started, you had to carry about 30 pounds of equipment to a meeting just to have one camera set up and shoot for minutes, and now 6 everything is miniaturized. There's a 7 lot more people who know how to do what 8 needs to be done, and I think you'll be 9 able to present yourselves in a much 10 better way than we were able to 25 years 11 ago. But even more importantly, you have 12 history behind you. We can offer the 13 ways that have been tried and true to 14 handle anything that comes your way, and 15 we're glad to do that. We look forward to the future. We've been wanting to have both our regional conference and our national conference here in Philadelphia, and we look forward to the opportunity to be able to do that sometime in the future. If you have any questions about anything going forward, I'm more than happy to help with it.
Thank you. 37 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. Thank you for your testimony. I'm sorry to be blushing. I just got a compliment from one of my colleagues. It's well received. I'm sorry. On a serious note here, are there any questions of these witnesses by members of the Committee? (No response.)
There being none, thank you so much for your testimony. We have, I believe, listed Donna Brown.
Okay. Councilwoman Tasco wanted to ask a couple of questions of either a representative of Comcast or Mr. James. So why don't both of you come up.
Thank you very much. I was upstairs listening. I had an earlier hearing and I had to get something to eat, so I was watching you. 38 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC.
But my question goes to the stations that you've set aside, and, as you know, in 2009, the government, FCC, is requiring that all stations be digital, and I see that you've set aside one station to remain analog. Now, what happens when that law comes into effect if you have that one analog station, which I think is fine, because everybody may not have digital, but based on the law as I understand it, whether I have digital or not, someone has to help me get a digital box. Okay? So what happens with the station when that law becomes effective?
I think, Councilwoman, the Channel 66 would still be Channel 66. What the impact would be with the change to high definition and digital programming is that the TV, the receiver, has to be able to accept that digital signal, but when that happens, 39 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. that doesn't necessarily change the channel numbering or the channel programming line-up. So while you would still have to conform to the new rules and having to be able to get a digital receiver and be able to get a digital signal, Channel 66 can still be Channel 66.
But would it be analog and would it be part of your channels that go to the public access channels?
Yes. So that as they're programming, they're still going to have a channel line-up that's going to have numbers that traditionally would not be in the digital programming as we know it today, because most of the cable providers put most of their digital programming in the 100's and on series, but the lower numbers will still be the lower numbers, but they're just going to be broadcast in digital as opposed to analog. 40 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC.
I actually thought the question was a little different. You're providing one analog for those individuals who do not have digital, and the Councilwoman said -- and it was my understanding also -- that eventually analog will be phased out.
So a person that does not get a digital box will essentially not have access, or will everybody be forced to get a digital box?
I believe the rule is requiring everyone to convert to a digital TV that receives a digital signal, and if not, there is a unit that you can do that's a converter that allows you to keep your analog TV but converts the signal once it comes into the house to digital so that your TV will still work. So for those people who can't afford to go out and buy a new TV, as long as they buy this small unit -- and I believe the federal government is talking 41 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. about some sort of coupons or set-aside program to help fund that because of the time frame associated. But the channel numbers are still the channel numbers. They're not going to change. And I believe -- maybe Comcast can speak to it -- if 66 is in the basic service tier, which is people who don't want to buy their more elaborate programming, that 66 will still be in the basic tier regardless of whether the program is being delivered in an analog format or in a digital format.
That's correct. And basically what it does, it will be down-converted to an analog channel. So our customers will not go dark on that.
Right. And they'll still be able to get Channel 66, and Channel 66 will be Channel 66.
The point is, it stays with the -- you have five access channels, right --
Four will be digital, one will be analog. When the new law comes into effect, the analog will still be part of the public access channels?
But all I want to know, will it stay with the public access channels?
Also, Mr. James, are we limited to Comcast, Direct TV? What about the other providers of television service, satellite television? Will those 43 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. subscribers not see this public access television?
Well, as it is today, I mean, the rules apply to those companies who have a cable franchise, and today the satellite companies are not required by the law to have a cable franchise, and today they did not get our PEG programming. They don't get our government access channel. They don't get our educational channels, and they would not get the public access channels.
Is it a fact -- I'll direct this to Comcast. Is it a fact -- and this was told to me, and I don't know whether it's true or false -- that Comcast does not serve public housing?
Well, I don't 44 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. know. It happened before I got here, but it's with Wilco. It's a separate contract with Wilco.
Well, Philadelphia Housing Authority because they own their property, they're sort of like a high-rise apartment owner who can have whatever cable provider for that housing unit that they have, and it just so happens that the Housing Authority has gone from high rises to regular homes and has allowed their residents the choice of either getting their cable provided service through their company named Wilco, which is really Comcast Video, or go out and get a satellite dish because they have a regular home now. Just like in most high rises, if you are in a high rise and you want to get a dish, you can 45 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. go out and get a dish and attach it to your building. So there's no difference. It's just that PHA is an owner of housing properties and they apply the same rules to them as anyone with a multiple high-rise dwelling unit.
So, Mr. James, the Housing Authority has recently built a number of home ownership units where the private individual owns their home and they do not have the ability to access Comcast.
No. They have the ability -- Comcast can speak to this, but I believe they have the ability to get a satellite dish or they have the ability to get what the Housing Authority offers as their cable program of choice, because they own --
But the house is no longer owned by the Housing Authority.
If it's a private 46 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. house, if it's a regular home, they have a choice of getting Comcast if they're in that area to service them.
Let me be more specific. Schuylkill Falls recently did, I think it was, a Hope VI and they did a number of those developments once the high rises were down, home ownership units. They do not have access to Comcast Cable because prior to that, it was a public housing site. They were not wired for Comcast or cable service. And now they're told you have to get the digital -- I mean the satellite dishes.
The question is, will they have the ability in the near future to have access --
Yes, it is wired. Well, it depends on -- the nodes are there. The nodes are there. And I think that's actually something that our businesspeople are speaking with Wilco about. So it's something that's in transition because of what has happened with the multiple-dwelling units down to the single-family units. We're not there yet, and I have to say that I'm not conversant enough on the topic in terms of what conversations have taken place between Comcast and Mr. Daniels. So I think that's kind of developing as we speak.
Okay. Because I know a couple of people who bought homes in that development and they were told that Comcast did not have a line into that particular location, so they had to get the satellite. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Not yet. 48 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. It will come.
I guess it depends on the development, because I am fully aware of developments, public housing developments, in my district that have Comcast and have always had Comcast. I didn't even know that there were developments that didn't have Comcast, because all the ones that I know of, except for those that live in that other -- I can't remember. I know you took it over, in the other area.
Right, in the other boundaries, correct. But everybody else has Comcast, and they're all low rises, so maybe that's the difference. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I think your point is if it's new -- 49 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC.
Would you come to the table. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: If it's a new development, then we need time in order to plan and survey that site. So there may be some cost involved in order to build the rest of that plant out. So you went from a node at an MDU and now you're going to like try to serve 50 homes. You have to develop a plan to do that. So it's not that -- they might not be able to be serviced right away, but we have to build it out more. Does that make sense?
I was just going to clarify with respect to the transition to digital television. This is Bob Sutton from the Law Department. 50 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. There is going to be an educational campaign that will be initiated the beginning of 2008 generally throughout the country. The federal government is providing for a subsidy by providing for coupons worth, as I understand it, it's approximately $40 for coupons for people who have analog televisions and want to be able to receive the digital channels that will be only digital channels available after February 9, 2009. And then they'll be able to use these coupons to go to Best Buy or Circuit City or other stores to get a digital box to allow them to use their current televisions and receive the digital signals. But there will be a lot more information about this coming out in 2008.
Yes. I'd just like to say that I've been in conversation with Carol Smith, who chairs 51 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. the Mayor's Commission on Technology, and WHYY are going to begin an educational campaign, but they will be briefing City Council shortly on this whole federal new law so that you'll be aware of what's going on.
Thank you, Councilwoman. Anyone else to testify on either of these bills? (No response.)
There being none, we will now leave the public hearing and go into our public meeting. Councilman Greenlee, could I have a motion on Bill 070793.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill 23 070793 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and, further, that the rules of Council be 52 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. suspended to allow for a first reading at our next session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
Thank you. It being moved and seconded, those approved? (Aye.)
The ayes have it. Bill 070793 will be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation with a rules suspension as to allow reading at the next session of Council. Councilwoman Tasco, could I ask for a motion on Bill No. 070794.
Mr. Chair, I move that Bill 070794 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and that a request for the rules of Council be suspended so that this bill can be heard at the next Council session. (Duly seconded.)
It being 53 10/10/07 - PUBLIC PROPERTY - BILL 070793, ETC. moved and seconded, those in favor? (Aye.)
The ayes have it. Bill 070794 will be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and a request for a rules suspension as to allow reading at the next session of Council. This concludes the Committee on Public Property and Public Works. Thank you all very much. (Applause.) (Committee on Public Property and Public Works adjourned at 2:15 p.m.) - - - 54 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on October 10, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)