COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, April 26, 2000 10:45 a.m. - - - RESOLUTION 000036 - Authorizing Council's Committee on Health and Human Services to hold hearings on the City of Philadelphia's welfare-to-work efforts, including the Transitional Work Program, Philadelphia @ Work and Work Opportunities, and to investigate the effectiveness of such programs at placing and retaining former welfare recipients in permanent jobs that promote self-sufficiency, with special attention focussed on the length of job programs, the appropriateness of wages paid, the practice of requiring attendance and unpaid training, and the retention rates of former welfare recipient placed into permanent jobs PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO, Chair COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS-BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 4/26/00 PUBLIC HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES I N D E X PAGE Mothers on the Move (MOMs) *DeVita Armstead. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . *Yvette Miles . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 *Adrienne Jenkins . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 *Sonja Pough. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 6 *Cynthia Rice . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 *Shavell Gordine. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 7 Gwyntha Carter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73 *Tracy Lester . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 82 8 *Madesia Danzy. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 94 *Bernadette Williams. . . . . . . . . . . . . 96 9 Philadelphia Unemployment Project 10 *John Dodds, Director . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 *Kati Sipp, Researcher/Organizer. . . . . . . 63 11 Sherry Honkala, Kensington Welfare Rights . . 79 12 *Ernest Jones, Esquire. . . . . . . . . . . . 99 13 Greater Philadelphia Workforce Dev. Corp. 14 *Richard Greenwald, President . . . . . . . . 112 Transitional Work Corporation Linda Hicks, One Day at a Time . . . . . . . 123 *Carol Geortzel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 133 Women's Association for Women's Alternatives Vivian Norton . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 146 Greater Philadelphia Urban Affairs Coalition Frazier Thompson, Catholic Social Services. . 152 Ed Schwartz. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 167 Institute for the Study of Civic Values *Ann Mitchell Sakey, Executive Director. . . 189 Greater Phila. Federation of Settlements *June Cairns. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 196 United Community Southeast Philadelphia 3 4/26/00 PUBLIC HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES (Index, cont'd.) Sharon Dietrich . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 201 Community Legal Services Veronica Johnson, PWDC. . . . . . . . . . . . 213 Margaret Peterkin, QUADS, Inc. . . . . . . . 214 *Cheryl Weiss, 21st Century League. . . . . . 219 (*- Also submitted written testimony attached hereto.) Attached Written Testimony - Letter from David C. Florey, Director, Bureau of Employment and Training Programs, Harrisburg - Rosalind Spigel, Area Director, Jewish Labor Committee - PCCY - C. Edward Geiger, Executive Director, Metropolitan Christian Council of Philadelphia - Deatra Butler, Work Opportunities Program Participant 4 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 P R O C E E D I N G S
Good morning. Could we have your attention, we're ready to begin the hearing. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Marian Tasco, the Chair of the Committee on Public Health and Human Services, and this committee will now come to order. I would like to recognize that we do have a quorum of the Public Health and Human Services Committee in the presence of Councilman DiCicco, Councilwoman Reynolds Brown, Councilwoman Wilson Goode, Jr., and Councilman Frank Rizzo. I'd like to have the clerk read the resolution, please.
Resolution 36, a resolution 18 authorizing Council's Committee on Health and Human Services to hold hearings on the City of Philadelphia's welfare-to-work efforts, including the Transitional Work Program, Philadelphia @ Work and Work Opportunities, and to investigate the effectiveness of such programs at placing and retaining former welfare recipients in permanent jobs that promote self-sufficiency, with special 5 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 attention focussed on the length of job programs, the appropriateness of wages paid, the practice of requiring attendance and unpaid training, and the retention rates of former welfare recipient placed into permanent jobs. Thank you.
Thank you. Approximately one year ago, we found ourselves in these very chambers, anticipating the many changes and challenges that welfare reform would bring to Philadelphia. And prior to that hearing, we spent many months visiting different communities to prepare our families and citizens for the welfare-to-work initiative. We are back today see how we have fared. We want to evaluate what has been successful and what may need some rethinking. We want to hear about transitions that families have had to make, and how they have succeeded. Clearly, we need to talk about training and education, child care, and transportation, wages and prospect for upward mobility. And we welcome your observations and suggestions. I have convened this hearing with the 6 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 intent of sharing our findings with the State Department of Welfare to the end that we can achieve some modifications of the policies and regulations. I am deeply grateful for your willingness to come here today and to testify. And so I thank you for your confident and faith in our desire to represent you with you. What happens in welfare reform is critical to the life of our city. We know that Philadelphia is home to approximately 50 percent of the welfare caseload in the entire state. There are, therefore, a great number of benefits that can accrue to the City. On the other hand, we have to sow seeds of greater discontent and frustration, and we do not want that to happen. We also know that many of the programs are evolving. That is, the program that we have today on many fronts is more comprehensive and more responsive to the needs of our constituency than the program of last year. Consequently, we can anticipate that some of the problems that we are confronting today will be solved with greater success stories. We are particularly concerned about 7 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 personalizing a program for a family. That is, creating a program that will actually move each family toward self-sufficiency, which will become a building block for continued growth and development. We will be taking testimony from participants, providers, advocates, and examining their various perspectives. You will hear that we are doing some things very well. Nevertheless, there are some things that can be done better. We will see what they are as we proceed. Are very pleased to have been asked by public unemployment project through the MOMs, Mothers on the Move, to hold and host these hearings. We are here today because of them. (Applause.)
And it is our intention to work with them to influence the State to make the changes and at least listen to the changes and recommendations that will be made here today. So this hearing was initiated because of their tireless work, and all of the many groups that support them, and you will hear testify today, as they have operated programs, worked 8 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 through programs, and have intimate knowledge and observation of what has happened but what good ideas can come forth to improve a program that has been put in place by the federal government and the State. So as a way of introduction, we have a video that has been prepared by the Women's Association for Women's Alternatives (WAWA), and it is called "New Voices," is that right, Carol? And we're going to see this video, and then we will begin with our testimony, and we're going to have the testimony provided by panels. And then after the video, we would like to have John Dodds, Yvette Miles, DeVita Armstead, Sonja Pough, Adrienne Jenkins, Kati Sipp, Shavell Gordine, Tracy Lester, Cynthia Rice, Bernadette Williams, and Gwyntha Carter to come forth, and we will have them again the testimony. These are representatives from Mothers on the Move, One Day at a Time, and the Philadelphia Unemployment Project. So we will have the video, and then we will have the first panel to come forth. Thank you very much. 9 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 We would like to put on the record that Councilwoman Donna Miller has joined us. ("The New Voices Video" by Women's Association for Women's Alternatives is shown.) - - - (Proceedings resume.)
Thank you very much. As you can see, this video talks about three women and their journey towards self-sufficiency and, of course, it points out some of the obstacles they have had to overcome. And we certainly want more success stories, there can be more success stories. There are many obstacles. The day-care issue is one that is very real. And today, as we listen to the testimony from the people who are running programs, people who are in the programs, we will hear some of the problems that some of our participants in the program have faced and are facing, and we want to hear from them how they believe that the system can be improved to make it better for them so that we'll have more success stories. And I don't know how many of you saw 10 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 20/20 just recently the other night, where a young lady in San Francisco was in a shelter and is now making $50,000 in Silicon Valley. Now, we would like to be able to have some of those success stories in the Philadelphia area, and there are a lot of women and men who can achieve that success, but we want to know how we're going to do that. (Applause.)
So now I'd like to have our first panel, and I called -- let's have Panel A. first, which will be John Dodds, Yvette Miles, DeVita Armstead, Sonja Pough, and Adrienne Jenkins come forward. If they are here, come to the table, please. And then we will have the second panel come up because I don't know if we have enough space for everybody. (Witnesses come forward.)
Thank you for coming, and we appreciate your asking us to introduce the resolution and have these hearings today. Would you -- John, I imagine you're going to go first?
I think DeVita's going to go first. 11 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
Okay. Would you please identify yourself for the record and present your testimony.
Good morning, everybody. My name is DeVita Armstead but first, before I start, I'd like all our MOMs to stand up and give they selves a hand.
All the women in the program too, that's all MOMs, all the women in the program. Hello. My name is DeVita Armstead, and I am a mother of 11 children. I was a participant in the Philadelphia @ Work Program, and I was placed on a job at the Philadelphia Unemployment Project. I have been hired permanently by -- to work with Mothers on the Move. Originally, I was placed as a receptionist, but I started training to be a community organizer, which I am now. I have never worked up until now. This is my first job. Up until now, I have been raising my 11 children. Working has been a real 12 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 change. I really enjoy it but I have to adjust to dealing with my children part-time. I missed a number of days from work to deal with some of my children, some of the problems my children have been having in school, such as fighting, playing in class, talking back to each other, back to the teacher. One of my children had to have a major eye operation. Also, I have been having problems with my child- care money. The Welfare Department is supposed to pay for child care, but the money is always late, and sometimes I have to take my rent money to pay my babysitter; otherwise, I won't have a babysitter and I won't be able to work. I have gotten better at managing my children on my non-work hours, but I still have problems sometimes. A longer time at TWC would have let me still learn how to deal with those problems better. Once the summer rolls around, I am going to have to have a lot more problems because my kids won't be in school. If I were still in a transitional job, that would be easier to deal with. I definitely think that the program should last up to 18 13 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 months. That would also allow me to get my GED, that would also help to make me more employable. MOMs believe that we should be paid a decent wage. We are providing viable services and we are doing the same jobs as others. We should be paid for our efforts. I am getting a real paycheck now, and it's so much better than the minimum wage. The wage at Philadelphia @ Work is too low and it needs to be raised. I had a great experience in the Philadelphia @ Work Program. I learned a lot, but I and other women in the program feel that we should have time to really get settled into a working mode and be able to increase our skills. Mothers on the Move is asking for Philadelphia @ Work and Work Opportunities to provide 18 months of employment at $7 an hour wage and training that is a part of the paid work. (Applause.)
The training needs to be more relevant and of high quality. With your help, we could make these programs better so that the women could move ahead with their -- so that we could move ahead with our lives and support our 14 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 children with our welfare. This is life and death for so many families. Let's not skimp on these programs problems. The State has almost $175 million in welfare money that they haven't spent yet. Why not spend to it make these programs better. (Applause.)
Too much depends on these programs really leading to self-sufficiency. Thank you for having these hearings and listening to MOMs.
It is a honor to be here this morning. First I would like to let you know that my name is Yvette Miles. And I was at Philadelphia @ Work. I am a 34-year-old mother of 6. I have two sons, ages 13 and 14, and four daughters who range from the ages of 6 to 12. I live in the Olney section of this city. 15 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 I have been on and off welfare for about years before I started at TWC, but I am 4 not on welfare anymore. When I was at TWC, I 5 worked here at City Hall, in the Department of 6 Records. I am happy to be working, but full-time 7 work is scary. 8 When you are used to staying at home 9 with your kids, you might get bored, but you don't 10 know what it is like to be working 40 hours a week 11 either. I didn't want to go to work, but I knew 12 because of the changes in the welfare system, I had to do it. I want to talk to you today about what is needed to make this program longer. Six months is not enough time for us to be in these programs. The way I look at it, it takes six months to learn about the company you are placed in and to learn how to do the job and, at the least, another six months to actually get good at doing your job. Women deserve to get enough training, because if you don't have enough training, you will go to a real job and they will tell you to do something and you don't know how to do it, and 16 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 that is embarrassing. I am the kind of person who learns something by doing it a few times. I'm a very fast learner, but I do need to learn things as far as hands-on, not by just hearing a fast explanation at one time. Another reason that women need more than six months in this program is that women have to learn how to juggle their responsibilities as a parent. (Applause.)
I have had problems around report card times. My kids' teachers -- excuse me. My children's teachers want to schedule conferences for me to come in and talk to them, and since I am either at work or at training, it is very hard for me at times to see them. This makes me feel less than a parent on hands. People who work from 9 to 5 have a hectic life because you can't always get your personal stuff during your lunch hour. I need time to learn how to deal with my responsibilities of working and raising my six young children. I also think that we need longer programs because we need to learn budgeting 17 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 skills. For me, I am not embarrassed to ask anyone that I know who has good budgeting skill to help me juggle my personal budgeting. (Applause.)
One of the reasons that it is so hard to juggle bills is that $5.15 an hour is not enough money for anyone live on. (Applause.)
Now that I have closed my case, the little bit of money is all that I have for me and my children. I don't even get food stamps or medical anymore. We need to make at least $7 an hour. (Applause.)
I don't like the fact that I am at a worksite side by side with City workers doing the same job, and they get paid a lot more than I do. I don't think it's fair. (Applause.)
Like I said before, I like working, I don't have a problem with going to work. Work is my welfare now. I will be going to school for nursing eventually, and I am glad to be getting up each 18 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 morning, because receiving benefits kills your dreams. If you have dreams that you want to go in life, you can't sit home and think that it's just going to be coming to you. You have to get up and work for it. (Applause.)
I don't want my dream of being a nurse -- and that's a registered nurse, not a CNA or not an LPN, but a registered nurse, I don't want that to be killed. I have children that I want them to look at me and say, "My mother is a survivor." But in order for me and other women to achieve our dreams, we need a little more help, we need a little more time in these programs and a higher rate of pay. That's what we need. This is not of what we want; this is a necessity. Like if we need gas and water, that's a necessity. (Applause.)
Longer months in these programs are a necessity, a higher rate in pay is a necessity. And I would like to thank you for listening to me and sharing your time. 19 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
Hello. My name is Adrienne Jenkins, and I want to thank Council for holding these hearings with us today. It's really important for you to understand what we welfare mothers are going through and that you just not hear about it from the people who run these programs. We are not here to trash the programs; we just want them to be better so we can succeed. I don't think that's asking for too much. I am a mother of three and I have a grandchild. My daughters are 16 and 9, and my son is 11 and my granddaughter is 2. I live in the North Philadelphia area and I am in the Work Opportunities Program. I work at the Frankford Ministries as a receptionist right now. I have received welfare for about 12 years on and off, although I have been on and off the system for jobs in the past that I had. I have worked as a cashier, done retail customer service, been a housekeeper, a receptionist, I even done 20 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 telemarketing. I've been in five of you all welfare-to-work since welfare reform happened. Connections failed me, PIC failed me, Greater Philadelphia Works -- they work with you, but I have something that stands in my way, which stops me from obtaining employment of my criteria -- because I have a criminal record. And my thing is taxpayers, you all spend a lot of money helping us go through program to program to get us prepared for the workforce, but we can't get together for the workforce because we can't get the credentials we need. Like some the us in the program the last six months, we might need a GED, we go for the GED, and before that program is over, we don't accomplish the GED, 'cause we're moving to another program, so that means you got to redo your whole planning all over again. And let me say if you all let these programs be 18 months, that gives you time to accomplish your GED for where you want to go at in life. And I feel as though the money is out there for you all with these programs. And we -- why 21 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 couldn't we get the help that's needed to us, that's due to us anyway. And right now, I only have a month left in this program, and this -- then I will be out pounding the pavements on my own, looking for a job on my own. I did a resume on my own. I haven't got much help from Work Opportunities in finding a job might. They might tell me about a job opening, but there isn't any other help. I am just like anyone else off the streets applying for a job. One of my main problems in finding employment is that I have a criminal record from when I was years old. I got probation for 16 that. My record has kept me from obtaining 17 employment to my satisfaction. I know there are 18 jobs out there, but Burger King and McDonald's is not where I want to go, thinking I can raise my family, you know? And for me to get responses from jobs telling me, Well, you have the qualification but you have a criminal record and that withholds you from obtaining employment. So that's discouragement for me. I done took the steps to 22 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 try to have it expunged -- nothing's happening. So now all I could do is fight for and help somebody not go through what I'm going through. As far as the minimum wage, it's a good start, but it's not enough, it's not enough. We are still receiving TANF while earning that 5.15. I look at it, if you take the TANF from us, the cash assistance that TANF's giving us, you all can give us $7 a hour. (Applause.)
And you all pay us for the wraparound, we coming out with a fair paycheck like anybody else. It's up to you to maintain and do what's needed to be done for you and yours, but if you don't -- I mean, we asking you all for help, just like you all want us to help you all stay where you all at, to go higher and higher. I mean, it's just, give us a chance like you all want us to give you all a chance. That's all we asking for. Thank you all for you all time.
Thank you very much. (Applause.) 23 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
Good morning. My name is Sonja Pough, and I would like to thank you all for hearing us out. I'm a single parent of three children, and we live in Southwest Philadelphia. I have a boy, age 7, who goes to (unintelligible) Elementary School, and I have two girls, 5 and 11. My older daughter goes to Tilden Junior High School, and my other daughter isn't in school. My sister watches her during the day. I've been on and off of welfare for about ten years, and I worked doing security, dietary, day care, and telemarketing. I was in telemarketing last year for, like, nine months. Welfare told me that I couldn't stay there because I didn't meet the qualifications or the requirements. I had to come and go to school. Now I'm doing telemarketing and I'm working. You know, why bother me? You know, I'm trying to maintain my home part-time, and they told me that I had to come to TWC, which at the time, I wasn't doing nothing there, doing wraparound? Let me tell you all about wraparound. (Laughter.) 24 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
Wraparound service, I have been there since March 6th. In wraparound, we didn't do anything -- and I'm not trying to slander wraparound because some of the people there were good and some of them wasn't, but we sat in a classroom ten hours for one week, and we did nothing, we didn't accomplish nothing. And I'm so happy that I'm with my boss now, you know, for the six months. We have wraparound at her, you know, facility now. And I'm glad to be with her. I'm still having problems with my children, number one. But I'm maintaining, I'm taking care of my children. I go do my job and come home and I'm with my children. So, therefore, I'm, you know, working. I'm being a mother. Now I really know what it is to be a mother and a parent. The $7, you know, I want the $7 an hour 'cause I'll be able to close my cash account, and it would be great. I believe the program should be extended 18 months. Six months is not enough time. You know, you have some women who can't 25 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 read or write, don't have their GEDs, and they're being pushed out after six months, and what are they going to do? I don't understand it at all. They just boost us up to fail us, that's what it is. (Applause.)
The State has a lot of this welfare money, and they're not using it. They should be using it to improve the programs. If you all giving us 5.15 to do the 20-hour service, why not give us the 5.15 for the 10 hours wraparound that we don't get paid for. (Applause.)
Some of the women -- like in my own group, we have about 53 girls. I only know one girl that got hired -- City Hall. And I'm so happy for her. She's permanent here in Traffic Court, one girl, one. (Applause.)
Out of 53 girls, one girl? I mean, it's crazy. Then I know a lot of girls that photocopy. That's not training, that's not helping 'em for the six months -- sharpening pencils, shuffling papers. That is not enough, I 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 really don't think it's enough for myself. I really don't. What else did I want to talk about, let's see.
Could I ask you a question while you're thinking there. You said you were working at a job as a telemarketer.
How long did you work as a telemarketer? Are you saying you were taken out during the day or --
And then they told you weren't quali -- didn't meet the criteria?
And then they put 27 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 you where?
This is where I did the wraparound. I started March 6th. I stopped my job in February, and I started TWC March 6th.
Oh, I don't go there now, and I'm with my boss at QUADS, 52nd and Masters -- Qualified Unique Alternative Development Service.
Councilwoman Miller? 28 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
-- your caseworker said you did not meet what requirements, whose requirements? Welfare's requirements or the telemarketer's requirements?
hours. You had to be 17 working either 20 or more hours. And then I only 18 got paid 1st and the 15th. 19
Well, how many 20 hours were you working at the telemarketing job?
Okay, so it was the hourly working requirement that you were not meeting. 29 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
Yes. And I was struggling, maintaining myself, working part-time. And welfare told me that I couldn't do that, I had to come, you know, to TWC.
Okay, so that you could get a 20-hour-a-week job, that's why they told you that you had to come back?
Okay. I just wanted to understand that 'cause that wasn't real clear.
Okay. I have TWC 30 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 workers in my office.
And I've had people on the Transitional Work Program.
So I'm, you know, pretty much familiar, but I just was kind of confused that if you were working, how you had to come back.
It's in the form, saying I had to come in to them because I didn't meet the requirements.
And that was specifically to help you gain whatever skills, knowledge, competencies you needed --
Yes. When I could have 31 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 stayed there --
You know, 5.15 to 6.50. They just took from me instead of trying to help me.
Okay, thank you for your time and I appreciate you hearing me out.
Okay. Yeah, my name is John Dodds. I'm the Director of the Philadelphia Unemployment Project and one of the organizers for Mothers on the Move. We very much appreciate your -- 32 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 Councilwoman Tasco's willingness to look into these programs that are designed to help women transition from welfare to self-sufficiency. These kinds of programs are of extreme importance due to federal welfare reform, which ends welfare assistance to families after receiving five years of welfare in a lifetime. State law also requires recipients to be at work after months or lose 10 their benefits. 11 As you already know, you're hearing 12 from women who take part in the programs, and 13 these women desperately want to succeed so they 14 can take care of their families and maintain a 15 decent lifestyle. I wanted to summarize the 16 positions of Mothers on the Move on the 17 welfare-to-work programs. 18 First of all, the advent of welfare 19 reform has created a potential disaster for poor 20 women and their children. 21 (Applause.) 22
The expectation that 23 thousands of welfare recipients can all find work 24 in our free-market economy is one that we at PUP have always found to be totally unrealistic. The 33 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 reality of welfare reform has taken place during the longest economic expansion in 150 years has somewhat reduced the potential damage. The fact that the State is restrained from cutting off of welfare rolls does not change the fact over 8,000 Philadelphia mothers who must be working under Act 35 are currently not employed. Thousands more will be joining that number as time goes on. With the passage of welfare reform, we saw the need for new kinds of support for poor people in Pennsylvania. We joined with Senator Vincent Hughes in an effort to create public jobs for thousands of people being forced from the welfare rolls. Job Opportunities and Basic Services are jobs bills introduced in Harrisburg in 1997 that attracted much attention and support around the state; however, with the Republican- controlled legislature, the bill was never passed. Its need was recognized, however, and is the basis for the programs we are talking about here today. The City created the Philadelphia @ Work Program using federal welfare-to-work funds, 34 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 State TANF dollars, and a grant from the Pew Foundation. Philadelphia @ Work provides a 25-hour work week, six months work experience at 5.15 an hour, with hours of unpaid training. Later on, 6 just prior to the 24-month deadline for 7 Pennsylvania recipients to find work, Governor 8 Ridge announced the Work Opportunities Program, 9 which also provides 25-hour per week, six-month 10 jobs, at minimum wage, with unpaid training. These programs have their flaws, particularly Work Opportunities, but they're a step in the right direction. They have given with limited work histories and often limited educations an opportunity to work. We have found that the vast majority of women are positive about being at work. Women feel they are moving in the right direction by having a job. However, the MOMs are not as positive about the length of time on the job, they're not positive about the pay or the training that they receive. We see both Work Opportunities and Philadelphia @ Work as the beginning of programs that will increase the number of jobs available in the City of Philadelphia and provide strong 35 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 foundations for mothers to move toward self- sufficiency. We have put forward several items we think need to be changed, however: MOMs believes the current 6-month program should be extended to months; 7 We believe the program should offer a 8 longer time of employment to allow people to 9 really settle into a job, fully learn the 10 responsibilities, and enhance their future 11 employability by having a long-term job on their 12 resume; 13 We believe the program should run for 14 18 months for recipients who want to remain. 15 An 18-month position would actually be a job, not 16 just another program. 17 (Applause.) 18
Placement activities can continue to move people into the private-sector jobs, but by making this a longer-term job, women will come out of the experience much more suited to the demands of the private sector. They're also more likely to end up in a situation where their employer wants to find a way to keep them in permanent employment. 36 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 A major concern with welfare reform is about problems of retention for recipients and other entry-level workers. Allowing recipients a longer-term employment before they go into the private sector should help mothers do better with retention. It will allow them to make the change from full-time mother to a working mother before they have to confront the often harsh standards of the private sector. According to the Transitional Work Corporation's, TWC's, February monthly status report, only 203 women were enrolled in Philadelphia @ Work. The program was designed to employ 750 at a time at 1500 per year. The low numbers reflect poor coordination with the Welfare Department and other issues within the program. But the lack of numbers of women in TWC may also stem from the fact of the 5.15-an-hour wage that's being paid to the mothers. This wage is almost an insult in 1999. (Applause.)
The minimum wage is being held hostage by politics in Washington and should not be the standard used to pay people in the City 37 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 of Philadelphia. If the wages were higher, we believe there would be a rush of welfare mothers to go to work in Philadelphia @ Work and Work Opportunities. We also should be sending a message to recipients about the value of their labor, which the current minimum wage does not send. We believe that workers -- and I emphasize "workers" -- in this program should be paid at least $7 hour. Our survey shows that all women who responded to date feel that 5.15 is an inadequate wage. Also, similar welfare-to-work programs in other cities pay more than the minimum wage. (Applause.)
New York City's new jobs program pays $7.50 an hour, Baltimore pays 6.10, and San Francisco pays 6.26. Why does Philadelphia pay minimum wage? (Applause.)
Also, training is important for people leaving the welfare rolls. However, the training portion of these programs needs to be strengthened. Attendance at training has been an issue, and the majority of the women feel the 38 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 training has not been high quality in Philadelphia @ Works. Sanctioning women out of the program for not attending training is one approach that has been tried. However, a better approach might be to pay women for their time and training. (Applause.)
Training is not optional to participants; they must attend. Our survey found that nearly all those responding felt they would be more likely to attend if training was paid. Most private-sector workers are paid for their time in training, and this incentive could raise the wages of mothers and also increase their incentive to attend. Training is a much bigger problem in the Work Opportunities Program. No formal training is provided to participants, although they are required to participate for 10 hours in the weekly wraparound. Funds must be made available for women to get quality training in areas that can enhance their employability. And certificates should be provided for women so that they have something when they leave the programs. 39 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 Raising pay and making training part of the work week would have another benefit, as it would allow women to leave the welfare rolls while they are working. Why should mothers gainfully employed being using up their five-time lifetime limit to welfare? A modest $7-per-hour wage at 35 hours a week would allow women with 3 children to leave welfare altogether. (Applause.)
At the current minimum wage, nearly all workers in this program are still on public assistance. This should not be. Such changes would mean we are actually creating real jobs in the City of Philadelphia. Jobs in the City are important for women with children and child care. Being long distances away from home in the suburbs with poor transportation is not a good idea for single parents concerned about the well-being of their children. (Applause.)
Some would say that with such a strong economy, it's not appropriate for the government to be creating jobs. However, 40 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 welfare reform, by pulling out the safety net from under poor families, makes such job creation essential. I'd also like to point to other government-creation initiatives like the Empowerment Zone. Hundreds of millions of dollars are put into private-sector subsidies, and the result is minimal employment for those in need of work. Philadelphia @ Work and Work Opportunities Programs target those in need and actually create jobs and salaries to go to the women who need them in return for our public investment. Let me just say that those are some of the specific issues we should raise regarding the Work Opportunities Program run by the Philadelphia Workforce Development Corporation. This program has been mismanaged and poorly designed, and it's been plagued with staff turnover. (Applause.)
They have had a difficult time placing women into work slots and have provided very minimal supports to women while they're going through the program. (Applause.) 41 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
Work Opportunities has an almost nonexistent job placement system. When we brought this to the attention of dozens of Mothers on the Move who are facing the end of their placement to the Work Opportunities officials, we were told that we had to get them resumes. In six months, Work Opportunities had not even prepared resumes for these women who are being prepared to go to work. Now, that tells us something about how that program is run. Changes are now being made in the program, and more resources are being put into it, and we're happy for that, but the women who have already used up their time, with no training or no 16 placement services have been done a disservice. Both the State and the Philadelphia Workforce Development Corporation must provide resources to make this program a real stepping stone to self-sufficiency and not a throwaway, last-resort program. The women treat this program seriously, and PWDC and the State must do the same. Lastly, I want to talk about child care. Mothers are concerned about how child care 42 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 is being provided. Delayed payments of child care money has been a very big problem. Child care money comes six to eight weeks after the care has been provided, and many mothers are put in a bad position and even have to leave their jobs. Child care payments come this late even if there is not a problem with the monthly reporting. If there is any problem with the monthly reporting forms, there could be delays of up to three months and more for child care. Now, the State has instituted a vendor payment system for licensed day-care providers so that they could get their money on time, and this is a good thing. However, the vast majority of women we have talked to have their children watched by relatives or close neighbors, and their payments are tied to a monthly reporting system with long delays. If women are to work, we must make sure that their child care is in place and on time. All child-care providers should be placed on a vendor-paid system for regular payments, including grandmothers who are taking care of children, including relatives and neighbors. 43 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 (Applause.)
These welfare-to-work programs are not the answer to all the problems that are resulting from welfare reform. Many families are going to need welfare beyond the five-year limits. Some women are better off caring for their children and raising strong families than working in menial jobs. But we have found that most women very much want to work and they want to succeed for themselves and their children. These programs are a start to helping mothers make it, but it can't be done on the fly and it can't be done on the cheap. Let's provide the time and the training to make women ready to succeed. The resources are there to make this happen. Harrisburg has over $175 million in unspent welfare funds that must be spent for the poor. Let's put some of these funds into better job programs that will prepare women to work -- (Applause.)
Programs that will prepare women to work and provide services for our 44 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 communities. The stakes are high for our neighborhoods and for the thousands of women and children in Pennsylvania and across the nation. Thank you.
Thank you very much for your testimony. We had asked the representatives from the Department of Welfare in Harrisburg to come down for the hearings today, but they are having a -- they sent a letter to us stating that they were in an annual employment training and education conference on the 26th through the 28th, and they have submitted a letter outlining some of the things that they are doing. And maybe I should read this for the record -- we'll put it in the record, and I'd like to read it because I don't know if they really address some of the issues that you have raised this morning, which are real valid issues. And we hope that some of the people here in Philadelphia who are working in these programs can offer us 45 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 their ideas on what they're doing as local advocates to address some of the concerns that you all have raised here this morning. First, before I read the letter, are there any questions on behalf of our -- I'd like to recognize Councilman Ortiz, who has joined us. (Applause.)
It's the Philadelphia Workforce Development Corporation. It's a State program that's run through the old PIC, which is now the PW -- Philadelphia Workforce Development Corporation.
And the wages that are paid in those jobs are just minimum wage?
And no benefits. (Laughter.) 46 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
It's 5.15 an hour, that's it. Because it's 5.15 an hour, most of the people are still on welfare so they have the benefits that come with welfare. People are not able to leave welfare on these programs.
Do we have any clear numbers from the Welfare Department at all in terms of the individuals and families that have gone off the welfare rolls and where they're at at this point in time?
Well, the numbers are down, but I don't think they're tracking where the people have gone very well. And the numbers are down basically because the economy has been good, but there are still tens of thousands of people --
As far as I know, there is not a clear tracking of where people go when they leave.
So we don't know whether they're doing better or worse or whatever it is.
We had -- again, you know, all through the last year and a half of last year, we tried to put into place a living-wage legislation for the City of Philadelphia. Your testimony and the testimony of the other individuals makes it even more clear that we need at least a minimum living wage bill from the City of Philadelphia as to what we can control. (Applause.)
So I would hope that my colleagues can join us this time around and maybe hold hearings on that, because it is imperative, because if you hear -- in terms of child care, you know, you didn't even mention what -- how many slots we have available with child care, the accessibility of child care for welfare mothers, if it's there at all. Is it there at all? Is it accessible and affordable and available?
Well, I mean, the main issue we've seen is that the payments just come so late that people really get fouled up with it. I mean, the child care money is available but they're not -- people get their checks two and 48 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 three months behind, and it's really a problem. And then you're trying to get somebody to watch your kids on credit and -- DeVita can speak to that more than me, she's been through it. It's a difficult problem.
Nobody wants to watch your kids on credit, no matter how nice they are.
They ain't going to watch them on credit. No, listen, excuse me. When I was in Transitional Work Corporation -- I have 11 kids, and 8 of them had to be watched. And, actually, they had to be tooken (sic) to school, for the ones that was in school, and I have three babies at home. So my child care payments was late, and I actually had to take my rent money and pay for my babysitter. And in that time, my phone had got cut off and my electric was about to get cut off, so I did go through a struggle. And I did thank God that I did get hired at the Philadelphia Unemployment Project and that I am a organizer for Mothers on the Move because these women all in this room, this is 49 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 very, very serious. (Applause.)
This is a part of your lives. You know, these women are trying, these women are motivated. Everybody in here is motivated. You know, they get in the program, they get motivated, but some of these women -- I never worked but some of these women like me never worked, don't have a GED, and what's the rush? Why are they pushing these women through these programs so they can end up back at the welfare office? (Applause.)
So that's why it's so personal to me and I'm glad I'm doing what I'm doing because now that I have a job, I can help pull up some of these other women up as well. (Applause.)
Is there any attempt to coordinate with Community College, for example, in terms of training, or is that permitted as part of the --
Yeah, well, one of the problems is, in the ten-hour wraparound, they 50 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 could possibly contract with the Community College as part of the wraparound. At Work Opportunities, there's no training. There's a requirement of ten hours of training and there's no training. So people -- women are required to be somewhere and there's nothing being done for them. I see no reason why they could not contract with Community College to run programs or any other reasonable training providers so that people get something and come away with a certificate or some kind of a program that they can show, that they can sell on the marketplace to get hired. It's not happening now.
One welfare official told me work once that they can go out and work their ten hours and then they can go to Community College. And I asked them, I said, "When do they go see their kids?" and they had no answer to that.
Let me ask you a question on that, also about the training. Who determines the rules for the program? Is it the State Department of Public Welfare, or is it the local program? 51 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
Well, the State set up the rules for Work Opportunities and the City actually set up the Philadelphia @ Work requirements and program.
There was some interaction between the State and the City, but the local program is run -- was set up through the Mayor's Office and so forth.
Would the local have the option to provide a contractual arrangement with Community College to provide education?
Yeah. And I will say, the City program does have actual training, as opposed to the State program. It's not with the Community College as of now, but it could be, yes.
Okay. What about Pennsylvania in relationship to other State programs in the access to training? Is 52 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 Philadelphia, in terms of quality of program content, where do we stand -- first, second, third, fourth, fifth, or forty-fifth? Or fiftieth?
Well, I don't know that. I mean, I think in some ways, we are ahead in that we have these program at all. Many states -- most states do not. So, I mean, in one way, we've got a good start. On the other hand, as DeVita said, why are we rushing women through these programs and so forth? We've got a good start, let's build out on it and make them decent programs. So it's not -- we're not in the worst shape, but it's not enough, clearly not enough, and it needs to be better.
So what happens to the 170-something million dollars? What happens to the money that is not spent?
Well, you're asking that question, and right now, I see that the Mayor, which is John Street, is looking to find a place to make a stadium. (Applause.)
Now, can't we take some of 53 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 that money out of that $175 million and place it somewhere where we could have efficient day care for parents with children. 'Cause, see, some of these jobs require parents to work on weekends, some of 'em require parents to work at night, and we don't have everybody that's accessible to our needs to do this.
Our suburban residents need someplace to go and be entertained. I'm just kidding.
Okay. Councilwoman Brown. Could we have your attention, please.
Good morning, John Dodds. You mentioned last year, and I'm very much aware of the efforts that were underway with you and Senator Hughes around minimum wage. Since so much of this is tied to what is and what is not happening at the State level, have there been any opportunities where you've had a chance to register these same issues with those at the State, since so much of what happens and doesn't happen rests with the State legislature? 54 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
As the Mothers on the Move know, we met with Feather Houstoun, the Secretary of Welfare, two weeks ago and brought these same issues to her. I think she was amazed to find that people actually want to work. She had a room 7 full of women that want to work, and she couldn't say anything bad. So we're hoping that that -- that we are going to have some impact. And maybe if Council joins with us and keeps pressuring the State, we could make some changes. What we're asking for is very little now. I mean, it's modest, what we're asking. It should be done.
Well, did you get any sense on what her next steps will be?
Well, she's supposed to get back to us. In fact, some of these meetings you're talking about today are probably dealing with these very issues, but we're not confident that she's going to make those changes, no. 22 (Applause.)
And, finally, on the issue of child care, I completely, completely empathize with you ladies 'cause I too am a 55 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 working mother with a little one that has to be dropped off and picked up every day before and after work. So what kind of dialogue has been had with the State Department of Public Welfare with regards to the reimbursement since they control that; and, B, waiting lists? Any? Because if not, then that's another opportunity we need to look at.
They were -- Feather Houstoun was interested in the idea of vendor payments for the parents and the grandparents and so forth. Right now, the lobby of the day-care providers is much stronger than the mothers, so the day-care providers, the licensed centers are getting taken care of. The issue now is, can we take care of day care for the women who have their children with their neighbors and with their relatives? And some others might also want to add to that.
Okay. Actually, I have like -- my two little babies that's at home now, they're with they grandmother, but I have a person coming out investigating and saying, how am I 56 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 getting to work every day, how am making it to work if somebody's, you know, not there watching my kids? Just like this man came out and investigated my home, this strange man came in my house, and my daughter didn't know who it was, but she started talking to him anyway. And he started asking questions about me, my children. I mean, if I didn't have a babysitter, I wouldn't be at work.
So, you know, I just don't appreciate how they sent someone out to my house, a stranger. And I have a 14-year-old daughter that had a baby, I have a grandbaby. So she's, like, you know, recovering from having the baby, then she will go back to school in September.
But no strange man was not supposed to come to my house and investigate anything. He was supposed to call me on my job and meet with me and meet with the provider, the one that's doing the child care for me.
And that's helpful 57 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 just in terms of the dialogue we need to have with the State around child care.
Hello. My name is Cynthia Rice and I have five children in a household. I live in the Southwest Philly area. And I'm a participant in the Work Opportunities Program. I now have been residing in the program for four and a half months. I now have two and a half months left. As for myself, as a mother of five children, I'm very concerned about my child care. I work Monday through Friday. I even do overtime. Why do I do overtime? Because I'm trying to improve myself and better myself as a parent and to be successful, to get off of the welfare system. And when it's time for me for my child care, I feel like I'm being very humiliated because I have to argue with the caseworker, I have to threaten the caseworker, I have to use authority with the caseworker, I have to go over her head with the supervisor, supervisor, 58 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 supervisor, supervisor. (Applause.)
And supervisor and Dr. Lynch and then other supervisors and Don Stuvile (ph.). And then when I get to the top of the list, then my cash is in my ETP account. And I'm tired of that and I want to know why, after all that, I wait two months, plus I only get 5.15 an hour. I take that, go to the check cashing place. That's $165 and they charge me $5 to cash it and I only have like $150 to spend. Then I got to take almost $40 of that for token money for that month and then turn around and take more for the next month, then pay the 16 child care. Then we got to eat, we might need 17 some bread or some meat and look over and 18 (unintelligible) don't have none. And where's the 19 (unintelligible) coming from? That's what I'm 20 saying. (Applause.)
So this program for child care was set up for failure because all we doing is rotating and taking our check -- what we working and slaving for -- and paying it back into 59 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 the system. (Applause.)
Now, that's my issue. Now, my concern is about my child care. I want to talk about child-care benefits. I am concerned because I need my child care in order to work. I need it so that I can become self-sufficient and find a good, decent job. And every month, I am depressed, oppressed (unintelligible), and I'm getting ready to be jobless 'cause I don't have my child care on time. (Applause.)
So how am I supposed to come ahead in society to get off of welfare and be self-sufficient if I don't have my child care on time? (Applause.)
If I don't have my child care on time, how do you think we are going to be self-sufficient? We don't have the support in the system, the system is not giving us enough support. We are single mothers who need that support and child care. (Applause.) 60 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
I have to make my paycheck every two weeks and pay a babysitter out of what I earn through my training job. I only make 5.15 an hour. Of that money, I have to give half of that to my babysitter and make arrangements -- I said "arrangements." Then when you go to make the arrangements, she come up with all kinds of questions, 'cause she want to know, well, thinking you lying, you know, are you shooting some kind of game with her? And then you turn around, then you out of a babysitter. Now you trying to find the next babysitter. Then if you call and explain that to your worker or explain it to your job site why I don't have no money, I don't have -- the money ain't in my account and they ain't put it in there, then they think you shooting some game, then you out of another babysitter, then you travel and find another babysitter. I cannot go to work like this. I can't go to work depressed and oppressed and suppressed. I can't work like that. People are losing their minds out here 'cause they oppressed trying to find out how they going to survive and 61 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 make it with their children out here. We got bills to pay -- I got electric, I got gas, I got water, I got to eat, and I like to dress the best. So I need a decent job and some child care. (Applause.)
My child care is important to me. I need it so that I can get a steady job. I want to work for my family to support them, I want to be independent and I don't want to keep paying on the system. (Applause.)
So please put the support system in place so that I and other Mothers on the Move can move on to become self-sufficient. (Applause.)
Thank you for listening to my testimony, and please help us mothers be self-sufficient and fix the child care system. God bless. .
Thank you very much. 62 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
You know that we're going to be spending taxpayers' money. You know, we're going to be putting forward around close to $500 million to make rich people richer. (Applause.)
You know, to build some stadium. So remember that. But we complain when we -- we start complaining when we cannot pay working people more than 5.15 an hour and some benefits. You should see -- you should see when we had the living-wage hearings, how all of those individuals that get tax breaks from the City, that get land from the City, that get grants from the City so that they can build their businesses, you should have seen them all here testifying against the living-wage bill. But no one -- like I said, no one really comes forward and said, If we give welfare to the rich, why not give some welfare to the poor? Nobody talks about that. (Applause.)
Okay. Who's next, John? Do you have some other -- 63 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036
The next panel, okay. Kati Sipp, Shavell Gordine, Tracy Lester, Bernadette Williams, and Gwyntha Carter. (Witnesses come forward.)
After that, we will ask Mr. Jones to come forward, along with some of the other program providers so that they can talk about the programs and what they see as their support for making some of these changes. Would you please state your name for the record. We'll begin with this young lady.
Sure. Hello. My name is Kati Sipp, and I'm a researcher and organizer for the Philadelphia Unemployment Project. I'm testifying today about a survey of women in the --
Excuse me just a second. As you move through the chambers, please move quietly. The noise is distracting, the stenographer cannot hear. This testimony has to be a part of the record so that we can glean from it the recommendations that we want to make 64 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 to the State, so we'd like to have your cooperation, please. So move around quietly. Thank you.
Sure. My name is Kati Sipp and I'm a researcher and organizer for the Philadelphia Unemployment Project, and I'm testifying today about a survey that of women in the Philadelphia @ Work Program that PUP carried out from August 1999 to February of this year. The Philadelphia @ Work Program, as you've heard, is a Transitional Work Program for welfare recipients, pays participants 5.15 per hour, the federal minimum wage, for hours a 17 week in jobs at nonprofit organizations or public 18 agencies. The jobs last six months, and they 19 include ten hours a week of unpaid training. 20 We've provided the Council with copies 21 of our survey, as well as the analysis of the 22 data, so I'll going to focus my testimony on some 23 anecdotal evidence that wasn't reported in the 24 survey. 25 We contacted 103 participants in the 65 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 Philadelphia @ Work Program and asked them a series of 32 questions about their experiences in the program. Women overwhelming responded that they liked working, but they also felt very strongly that six months was not enough time for them to be on the job, and obviously, you've heard testimony to that effect already, and you're going to hear some more.
We have personal knowledge of that since I too have women in the program who have worked for me and didn't feel it was long enough.
Yeah. Many of the women who have no work experience felt that they would need to build up a stronger work history and a longer work history before a private-sector employer would take them seriously. And in addition, as you've heard, women who lacked a high school diploma or a GED felt that if the program were longer, then they would have a better chance of getting their GED, which would, in turn, make them more employable. Most of the women reported that they were unable to live on the combination of minimum 66 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 wage pay and their reduced welfare grant. Despite the fact that this combination generally added up to a slightly higher amount of money than their original welfare grant, the additional costs that were created by the needs of work seemed to offset any minor advantage that women made as workers. Even though, Philadelphia @ Work, which is a relatively research-rich welfare-to-work program, and contributed to the cost of clothing and transportation and the State-provided subsidized day care, women still felt that their dollars were so stretched that they were no better off than when they had only received welfare. This perception contributed to many women feeling frustrated and depressed about their experience in Philadelphia @ Work. 50 an hour and $8 per hour. For a woman with three children, raising the wage to $7 an hour and paying for the training time would enable her to close her cash case entirely. This would help participants feel like 67 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 they were really moving somewhere because they would actually be moving off of welfare and be totally dependent on wages, and they would not feel so much like they're just cycling through another welfare program. Many of the respondents reported serious problems with their subsidized child-care system. Most of the problems resulted from the design of the program, where women get reimbursed for their child care payments six, eight, and sometimes twelve weeks after care has been provided for their children. Needless to say, it is naive to expect that women who are earning minimum wage are able major to wait up to three months for repayment by the State. We heard countless stories of women who were choosing to pay their babysitter over their rent or over their other bills, and women who have lost jobs because their babysitters would no longer wait for payment. As a mother of a seven-month-old girl, I've had my share of problems with day care, and I personally know the fear and frustration attached to leaving one's child with someone else. By 68 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 creating a system where mothers also have to worry about whether their babysitter will continue to work from one day to the next, the State has not served this population well. After our initial survey of 103 women, we conducted a follow-up survey to determine how participants were faring once they moved into permanent work. We were able to recontact 70 of the original surveyed participants, and of those, 54 percent had found permanent work. Since the longest that any one of these women could have possibly held a job with six months, based on the timeframe of our survey, their retention data at this point is not statistically significant, although we will be recontacting women again in sort of six-month segments to see, are they keeping jobs, are they moving to better jobs, how are people being served by the program in its retention phase? Wage information for the jobs that women are finding are fairly hopeful. Fifty percent of the women that reported having found work found jobs that paid between $7 and $9 hour an hour. Since the majority of workers had gotten 69 4/26/00 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. - RES. 000036 their job through Philadelphia @ Work's job placement services, this speaks highly of their abilities.