since you live essentially right next door? Basically. Okay. You say you have no recollection
of receiving a zoning notice from my law office stating that you can contact me with any questions
you know members of the board just for purpose of the record i'm referring to page 18 or 30 of my
zoning packet that was previously sent to the neighborhood showing that we have a certificate
of mailing dated october 13 2020 for 104 mail pieces for the property of 3818 aspen street
uh miss lindsey are you aware that otherwise this is going to be built as a three-story
single family dwelling single family correct okay so your objection is only to the fact that
this is a multi-family dwelling correct
right okay and the extensions in the back uh anything that goes against the like what
we already look like like if you stay within you know your height variant well no variances you
know like i think it's zoned so that you can go three stories and that's fine but as long as it
states a single family dwelling i'm not opposed okay miss lindsey you're aware that the civic
association sent a letter to the zoning board correct i'm also aware that that um was supposed
to be retracted from what I like from what I understood it was a misunderstanding on some part
but nothing to do with the civic right have you have you had conversations with Mr. Dwayne Drummond
the chair of the local civic association in what capacity have you had any conversations
with him regarding this application I had a conversation with him on Saturday okay
regarding this application uh yes uh we just i'm sorry i didn't mean to interrupt you miss
it's just difficult because of the slight delay due to the uh audio visual nature of the hearing
please continue yeah so i had a discussion with him and the discussion was that this was the space
for us because we didn't, well, I'm sorry, me, and there are other people from my block that are
also on this call so that we can be sure that it's not just me. However,
the discussion was that this was the space, the ZBA was the space because we weren't able to make
the RCO meeting, that the ZBA was the space for us to come and voice our concerns and our
grievances. I also sent a packet of letters from myself and other members of the 3800 Block of
Aspen Street, all in opposition to the proposal. Miss, I do have a question about that. You typed
those up yourself based on text messages you received? I did not type all of them. No, I did
not type all of them. And as a matter of fact, I didn't type anything. The text messages were just
forwarded and then resent okay who transferred my each whatever name is on the the letter that's
the person that sent the text message okay i don't have any other questions for you miss thank you
anyone else would like to testify in this case please raise your hand
No, Chair, you can proceed.
Thank you.
Mr. Mueller, I just refreshed my memory.
Is this a duplex or a triplex?
It's a duplex, members of the board, referring to page 17 or 30 of the packet, which is currently on your screen.
You'll see we received two refusals.
One was for two-family living.
My recollection is that the City Planning Commission had no objection.
And after conversations with Mr. Dwayne Drummond, the chair of Mantua Civic, who I believe may have sent a letter to the board as well, which unfortunately I never received a copy of, the Mantua Civic Association, which is the coordinating RCO, did not oppose this application.
The other refusal we received, members of the board, was for rear yard depth.
Our rear yard depth, I can attest based on aerial photographs, is similar to other homes on the block.
Thank you.
uh chair i'm sorry to interrupt we have two hands that just came up it's your call
Okay, before we get to them, Sharon, do we have anything from Dwayne?
okay before we get to them uh sherman do we have anything from
I do not have anything. I just checked.
Okay. All right. Whoever else would like to testify, please raise your hand at this time.
And if you could speak to something new and different, that would be helpful.
Chair, I am Patricia Rozier.
Good afternoon, ma'am.
Hello.
Hello.
Can you hear me?
Please identify yourself.
Spell your first and last name and provide us with your address.
Patricia Rosea, R-O-Z-I-E-R.
Address is 3856 Aspen Street.
You swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Please proceed.
So as far as getting a letter, people are moving in and out.
and we didn't see this letter um that went out not until a couple days afterwards because of
the letter and everything what letter are you referring to the one that was sent out the first
letter that was sent out in reference to like uh making this a three-story dwelling from the
from the applicant no it came in the mail i guess in reference to the um this meeting the first time
pertaining to the property that they want to make a three-story dwelling okay
we didn't it's a lot of people that were at work at the time and a lot of people didn't receive it
so we were complaining to the male people also as far as people didn't receive it on time and it's
not you know it's not fair to us because we had ones who are we were complaining to the male people
as far as like not getting milked late so is there any way that you know we people are willing to
come on and speak as far as keeping it as a two-story dwelling opposed to a three because
the single parents and stuff like kids and stuff on the block they can build but so i'm gonna
interrupt you ma'am uh they can build the three-story within as long as it's no it doesn't
exceed 38 feet it's a buy right the only issue before us is whether to maintain it as a single
family or a duplex well we would rather keep it as a single family then i would as i'm speaking
for myself. Yeah, understood. Okay. Anyone else? Chair, I have Corinne Sapp, who's been unmuted
and waiting to be sworn in. Again, I'll ask your full name and address. I'll swear you
in and please provide us with something new and different. My name is Corinne Sapp. My
my address is 514 north 34th street however i'm on the ma'am ma'am slow down please okay
spell your name for the record d-o-r-i-n-e last name is sap s is in sam a p is in paul p is in
paul we're in firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do there before
miss that begins please let me preliminary preliminarily object as an officer of the court
I'll submit to this board that based on my conversations with Dwayne Drummond I believe
that Ms. Sapp is going to attempt to speak as if she is a member of the board of Mantua Civic
Association and based on my conversations with Mr. Drummond I understand that she does not have
the authority to do so. That said if she wishes to testify and her address is within the affected
area which I'm happy to pull up a copy of the addresses which are in the affected area I do
not object to her testifying in her individual capacity, but it's my understanding that she
has no authority to speak on behalf of the Civic Association. Okay, ma'am, are you within the
affected area? I am not within the affected area, but I am not on the board, but I am a member of
the Mantua Civic Association Zoning Committee, and I was appointed by Dwayne Drummond to speak
on behalf of the Mantua Civic Association on the ZBA and the Civic Design Review and that's why
I'm here. I talked to the and that's that's why my name is on all of the rosters. I am not on the
board. He is correct but I am appointed by Dwayne Drummond as a zoning member of the Mantua Civic
Association. He's correct. I'm not on the board but I do have authority. Chair I renew my objection
as an officer of the court based on conversations I've had with Mr. Drummond, I understand that this
may have been a recurring problem with respect to Ms. Sapp. So again, because she does not live in
the affected neighborhood, because there is no letter of authorization from the Mantua Civic
Association, I ask that she not be allowed to speak as a member of the Mantua Civic Association.
And on top of that, as she is not in the affected area, she may speak, but I ask that the board
but I ask that the board consider whether her testimony be relevant as somebody who is not
consider whether her testimony be relevant as somebody who is not within
within the affected area. Understood, and we'll move on to the next
person to watch her testify. Thank you. Tanya, the next person. Here we have the last one is
Angela Lindsey. You can unmute yourself and wait to be sworn in. Lindsey?
maybe not sure you can move on okay um i'd like to know where mr duane is uh he's not on i assume
correct that's my understanding numbers of the board i i mean his name's been thrown around
half a dozen times uh anyway questions from the board no no
planning commission
good afternoon board peter bernard for the planning commission
this property is indicated for single-family use in the comprehensive plan
this is an existing single-family block and was part of the 2017 mantua single-family
neighborhood-wide remapping. We feel the proposal represents an overuse of the property.
Accordingly, we object to the granting of the variance. Thank you. Do we have anything from
Councilwoman Gautier's office? Do you have any letters? Chairman, we had had previous correspondence
from Mr. Goodman from the councilperson's office, but Mr. Goodman was incorrect in that his email
to the board suggested that there was a vote against this proposal by the civic when that
is not the case uh if i recall correctly it was either a vote slightly in favor by one vote or a
complete tie i think you're correct in that yeah councilwoman gauthier or mr goodman did say that
the councilwoman is still opposed but um i'm not sure what that's based on mr chairman mr chairman
Do we have a letter from anyone concerning this appeal?
We had the testimony, I believe, of Mr. Goodman when we first heard this case.
Again, Sharon, is there a letter in that file?
Mr. Goodman sent an email to members of the board.
Mr. Drummond, with whom I spoke, explained to me that he had sent a letter to the board as well.
perhaps it was sent or misdirected to an incorrect email address but it's not a letter that I
personally ever received a copy of. If the board would like I can follow up with Mr. Drummond and
see perhaps if he can resend it to me and I can forward it to the board just in the purpose of
clarity. And this is Sharon I can only say that I wasn't copied on it not that the board did not
receive it. Also I don't see anything and I did want to just mention on record that we did receive
an email from Mr. Goodman for just the screenshots of text messages, which I told him was not going
to be accepted because we take letters only and not actual text messages. All right. We're going
to move on. We want to close the record on this and we'll make a decision at our next Wednesday's
executive session thank you so am i yep members of the board in the meantime if i am able to secure
a letter from mr drummond i would ask that the record be kept open for the limited purposes of
accepting that written correspondence from manchua civic okay all right we'll do it that way
in the interest of fairness all the way around so mi 2020-001077 3818 aspen street this hearing will
be resumed on do we have a date is it december 2nd again or something else oh no we can do
december 2nd for this one number second at two um i'm sorry you know what we could actually do
it next week since it's just i'm open for the letter correct so next week would be uh the
the 17th um if what we could i would love to do it on wednesday 18th the 18th correct okay
MI 2020-001077, 3818 Aspen Street.
This hearing will be resumed on Wednesday, November the 18th at 9.30 a.m.,
at which time we will consider any feedback related to the RCO
and Councilwoman Gautier's office.
Thank you.
Members of the board, do you require my presence of that hearing,
or may I simply submit the letter if I receive a copy of it from Mr. Trummins?
not necessary unless you find you believe you need to be here other than that no
great thank you members of the board have a good afternoon
great thank you members of the board have a good afternoon
okay we'll move
okay we'll move on to one that may not be as easy uh let's see
mi00-1458 7519 ridge avenue
uh chair we have attorney mr demarco marco good afternoon please identify yourself you're still
on the oath from earlier today right uh good afternoon members of board richard demarco d-e-m-a-r-c-o
i'm here for the applicant um if i could do a uh a clarification statement there was some
interesting testimony from the planning commission at the last hearing that i wanted to
because we are are going to update our argument uh today but before you begin i believe there
was opposing counsel was it mr whalen or no paul toner is paul toner i'm sorry mr toner
mr toner are you on yes chair i have promoted attorney paul turner yeah let me swear him in
and then we'll proceed mr toner please identify yourself with a record and i'll swear you in
mr toner you have to unmute yourself and start my video there we go
thank you mr chairman um for the record my name is paul toner with orphanese and toner
We're counsel for the Protestant, the Upper Roxborough Civic Association.
You're swearing the firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Mr. DeMarco.
Yeah, I just want to do a housekeeping item.
Mr. Toner is going to continue with cross-examination of David Plant would be where we're at in the case.
I wanted to alert the board to the testimony of the Planning Commission last week,
which uh our experts have reviewed with with with me and it it's clear that the planning
commission relied on the additional impervious coverage sections of the code of the whistahick
and watershed so the argument that the applicant is making is somewhat updated from that testimony
and specifically what i mean is as follows while part of the most of the property has a 45 percent
impervious coverage limitation i'll bring it up on my screen if i if i may there is a provision in the
code it's going to take a while to load for some odd reason there it is can you see my screen mr
chairman yes so the planning commission is authorized by the zoning code to approve
additional impervious coverage under the wissahick and watershed overlay district
if we meet the five criteria which you see on your screen paula brumbelow testified
that the planning commission approved our plan based on those five sections and she read that
into the record last tuesday so your argument excuse me respectfully object to the characterization
mr uh miss brumbauer's test no no with all due respect miss brumbelow read those criteria into
the record herself rich she was very clearly she was not involved she was very good she was not
involved gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen please one more time please sorry so our argument is as
follows after i was interrupted we do not request a variance unless the board deems it necessary
because the planning commission has approved our plan based on the section that you have on the
screen so if the board does not accept that then in the alternative we are requesting the variance
that's all i have and you can continue with the hearing
uh could you just go over that one more time paul uh richard certainly
this section of the wissahickham watershed that you see on your screen
is a section which allows the planning commission authorization to approve additional impervious
coverage you can see it in section c it says additional impervious coverage in excess of
the coverage permitted by 14 510 may be permitted by the commission after review and comment by the
law department and other appropriate city agencies according to the following criteria
If you remember, Paula read these criteria into the record and stated,