COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON RULES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, October 19, 2005 10:30 a.m. - - - BILLS 050510, 050750, 050796 AND 050797 PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO BILLS 050510, 050750, 050796 and 050797 - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good morning, everyone. This is a public hearing of the Committee on Rules. I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the title of Bill No. 050510. MR. McPHERSON: Bill No. 8 050510, an ordinance to amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of land located within an area bounded by Allegheny Avenue, Collins Street, Westmoreland Street and Tulip Street.
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good morning, Madam President and members of the Rules Committee. My name is William Kramer. I am the Senior Zoning Planner in the Development Planning Division of the City Planning Commission. I am here today to testify on Bill 050510. Councilman DiCicco introduced this bill on May 26th 3 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 of 2005. This bill rezones 10.6 acres of land in an area bounded by Allegheny Avenue, Collins Street, Westmoreland Street and Tulip Street. The land has a current zoning designation of C-1 commercial and is to be changed to a designation of C-3 commercial in order to facilitate the use of this property as a surface parking lot for Northeastern Hospital, which is located directly across Tulip Street. This rezoning will also permit the hospital to develop the vacant portion of this site for future expansion of the hospital. This bill was considered and approved by the Planning Commission at its meeting of October 17th of 2005. Additionally, at the request of the Law Department, they have asked us to amend the bill to correct a minor error in the legend, and I have those amendments with me here. That concludes my testimony. I 4 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 would be happy to answer any questions of the Committee. Thank you.
Mr. Kramer, what is the current use of this property? It's a vacant lot?
It at one time was a vacant industrial building that was the subject of a December zoning variance to permit the use as a parking lot for the hospital. It's a combination of an employee parking facility and visitor parking on the site, on the entire site, and the rest of the site, which is about a third of that site, is vacant at the present time.
To the best of your knowledge, is there any opposition to this zoning change?
To the best of my knowledge, there is none. There was no 22 mention at our meeting. No one showed up to protest the action.
And the sponsor is here, so for the record, I 5 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 would like the sponsor to respond to that also.
No opposition. Matter of fact, Madam President, the site in question here this morning is the site of the infamous Wal-Mart debate that I had a couple of years ago. It's the former Goldman Paper, I think it was Goldman Paper Products Company factory, that was vacated and was being proposed to be developed as a Wal-Mart, as you might recall.
The morning of the vote, I withdrew the bill. Northeast Hospital came back with a different plan they were interested in. This will be very helpful to Northeast Hospital.
Good job. 6 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 You put a lot of sweat in this one, and you deserve a lot of credit for the way it was handled.
Madam President, I would just like to say that our dearly departed Councilman Cohen would be extremely happy about this development.
But there's another zoning matter that Wal-Mart is trying to build in my district in another location not far from here, and that's a result of an agreement between the former purchaser of this site where Northeast Hospital said, We will help you find a suitable relocation site. It happens to be that the suitable relocation site is again in my district.
Tioga 7 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 Pike?
Mr. Kramer, for the record, can you tell us how many parking spaces are planned?
Madam Chair, if I can, there's a representative from Northeast Hospital here as well.
If he or she would approach the witness table, that would be helpful.
Madam President, those plans call for an accessory parking lot with 608 parking spaces.
And there would still be ample room for future expansion of the hospital?
Yes, ma'am, there would, or at least what is left would be permissible for -- it would certainly limit the type of development that the 8 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 hospital could do based on the size of the lot, but there is room for them to have construction of a facility on that lot for them, yes.
Thank you. Are there any questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Seeing none, I thank you. Do we have any questions for the young lady at the table from the hospital? The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Yes. Good morning, Councilwoman Verna. I'm Katherine Levins, Director of Government 9 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 Affairs for Temple University Health System.
Good morning. He may have mentioned it in his testimony, but did you talk about the expansion as it relates to job increases at that site?
I don't have the numbers with me, but we do have an overall plan for the entire Health System, which involves a relocation of many of our back office functions over to a new site in the Hunting Park section, and what that would enable us to do would be to build jobs in all of our hospitals. I have those numbers elsewhere. I didn't bring them with me today, but with that, we expect to be able to build approximately 132, I believe it was, immediately with the relocation, and overall with the Health System over the next several years at our hospitals, we 10 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 have an estimate of about 700 jobs.
So at this particular site, there will be an additional, you say, 132 at this site?
The expansion? No. That would be 132 overall at the Health System.
Yes, as a result of the relocation of certain jobs that are at Northeastern Hospital and a few of our other hospitals, Jeanes, Episcopal, to the new location.
Are these higher paying jobs, mid range, higher pay? What type of jobs?
They're really a mix, and I can send you -- I have it all laid out, the type of jobs. We have pretty detailed information on that, but 11 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 it would be a mix of entry-level jobs, cafeteria workers, facility workers, up to nurses, clinicians and physicians. Really across the board.
Okay. Thank you. If you could just provide that through the Chair --
Are there any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Thank you. I did not hear anyone ask for a suspension of the rules. I assume that there is no urgency to this?
She was asking me. We'll have it done before we recess December 15th, yes.
I'm sorry? 12 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797
We would have this voted out of Committee in final passage before December 15th.
If I could just thank Councilman DiCicco for his leadership with this. He was very, very helpful to us.
That's wonderful. Thank you very much for coming in to testify. Before we proceed with the next bill, I would like the record to reflect to my extreme left, we have Councilwoman 13 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 Brown, Councilman Kelly, Councilman Clarke. To my immediate right, we have Councilman O'Neill and Councilwoman Miller. So we do have a quorum. At this time, I would ask Mr. McPherson to kindly read the title of Bill No. 050750. MR. McPHERSON: An ordinance 10 amending Section 14-1621 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Passyunk Avenue Special District Controls," by expanding the District boundaries to include properties located in the East Passyunk Avenue Business Improvement District, all under certain terms and conditions.
Yes, ma'am. Good morning, Madam President and members of the Rules Committee. My name is William Kramer. I am the Senior Zoning Planner in the Development Planning Division of the City Planning Commission. I am here 14 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 to testify on Bill 050750. Councilman DiCicco introduced this bill September 15th of 2005. This bill amends Section 6 14-1621 of the Zoning Code by expanding the boundaries of the Passyunk Avenue Special District Controls to include all properties located in the East Passyunk Avenue Business Improvement District. The Passyunk Avenue Special District Controls were established under Bill 010125, which the Planning Commission considered and approved at its meeting of November 15, 2001. Accordingly, this bill is consistent with the previous policy of the Planning Commission and we recommend that it be approved. That concludes my testimony. I would be happy to answer any questions of the Committee.
Thank you very much. Do we have any questions from 15 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 members of the Committee? (No response.)
Do we have anyone to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Seeing none, I would ask Mr. McPherson to please --
Madam Chair, on this one, I would ask for a suspension of rules on this bill. Thank you.
Thank you. I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the title of Bill No. 050796. MR. McPHERSON: An ordinance to amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designation of certain areas of land located within an area bounded by Woodhaven Road, Bustleton Avenue, the County Line, Trevose Road, Southampton Road and Worthington Road.
16 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 Mr. Kramer.
Good morning, Madam President and members of the Rules Committee. My name is William Kramer. I am the Senior Zoning Planner in the Development Planning Division of the City Planning Commission. I am here to testify on Bill 050796. This bill was introduced by Councilmember O'Neill on September 22nd of this year. This bill is a zoning remapping bill for the Somerton area of the City. It covers approximately 316 acres of land bounded by Woodhaven Road, Bustleton Avenue, the County Line, Trevose Road, Southampton Road and Worthington Road. The area is primarily zoned with a mix of residential classifications with certain properties maintaining a commercial designation along the major streets in the area. This bill will rezone a majority of the residential properties to a designation of R-1, R-1A or R-2 in 17 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 order to restrict their ability to be subdivided as a matter of right and without the input of the surrounding community. The Somerton community supports the rezoning of this area. This bill was considered and approved by the Planning Commission at its meeting of October 17th of this year. At the request of the Law Department, we have amended the maps for this bill, and the only changes is to allow for better legibility of the maps themselves. This concludes my testimony and I would be happy to answer any questions of the Committee.
I'm sorry. Mr. Kramer, I didn't quite hear why you were asking for the amendment.
The original maps that were done, they're the same map, they were a smaller scale, and the Law Department felt that you could not read the dimensions on the initial maps and 18 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 asked us simply to make the maps bigger, which is what we've done with those amendments. It's more of a technical issue. There is no changes to the map itself.
Very well. Thank you. Are there any proposed subdivisions of land in the area to be rezoned? If so, how many and for what purpose?
There are always subdivisions in question. There's only one that is substantial that I'm aware of, and that one has not been approved. It's under negotiation with my division, with Marty Soffer of my unit, that they have never been able to come to an agreement on with regard to how they should lay out the property. That's currently zoned R-4, and this would change that designation to an R-1 classification. But that one was, as we considered it, not ready for 19 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 consideration by the Commission. It's right next to Woodhaven Road. As a matter of fact, the proposal is bisected by Woodhaven Road, which creates a bit of a problem for the developer. You get an occasional development come in within an individual property here and there, but an exact number of that I do not have, and we have not seen any come in to our office in this area since the introduction of this bill.
Thank you. Are there any questions or comments from members of the Committee on this bill? (No response.)
Is there anyone to testify? Please approach the witness table, identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good morning, 20 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 Chairman Verna and members of the Rules Committee. My name is Lynn Ricker. I live at 13480 Proctor Road in the Somerton section of the City. I have lived there my entire life. I am a member of the Somerton Civic Association and have been a member almost that long. I am here to read the testimony of the President of the Somerton Civic Association, Mary Jane Hazell, who could not be here today because of a death in the family. I believe you have her testimony. Members of the Rules Committee, I am here to read a letter from the President, Mary Jane Hazell, who had a death in her extended family and the funeral is today. "This bill, 050796, is extremely important to the Somerton community. We are in full support of this ordinance and thank Councilman O'Neill very much for his efforts on this. 21 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 "We have had an overload of developers crowding our area. They are removing one single-family home and replacing it with three, four and sometimes five in its place." And I think that you had asked, Council President Verna, if there were any subdivisions. We have gotten word this morning that there was an over-the-counter permit issued for a property two doors from where I live on Proctor Road where a single-family home was knocked down in violation of L&I. They were not supposed to knock it down. They were not supposed to cut down the 100-year-old trees. They did that also. Mary Jane Hazell has also asked me to give you photographs of that area. I will give these up for the Committee, and I will tell you what each one of them represents. Photograph No. 1 is the lot at 13498 Proctor Road, which I just spoke of. You see the country road area. You 22 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 see the nature and character of the community. No. 2 is the immediate neighbors, my immediate neighbor, who will be the immediate neighbor to this empty lot. The boards are holding up supposedly my poor neighbor's property. They have been asked at least twice by the building inspector from L&I to regrade the property, and as you see, nothing has been done. Some of the trees in the area to the right in that picture that my neighbors own, the builder wanted to take down. When my neighbors refused, they killed the root sections. Those two trees will die. Picture No. 3 gives you an idea of the country road nature of the community. Four, 5, 6 and 7 and 8 give you an idea of the neighborhood. I took pictures on Proctor Road to give you an idea of what this area which we are 23 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 looking to be rezoned R-1 is and why we need this level of protection. Picture No. 9 and Picture No. 5 10 gives you an idea of some of the shoehorning of homes into these big lots that developers are doing. If you take a look, some people can hardly get the car off the street. That happens to be on Byberry Road. There are no side yards, no set-backs, no anything. They simply are trying to make a quick buck and jam as many homes on that property as possible to take advantage of low interest rates, ten-year tax abatement, and the only protection that we have is this bill. If I may continue with President Hazell's testimony. "A lot of our streets are country roads, and they are so few and precious that it really is a shame to destroy them with overdense construction. Unfortunately, we have a lot of R-2, R-3 and R-4 zoning. It is imperative that we work with Councilman 24 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 O'Neill and the City Planning Commission and change what can be changed. "Somerton is one of the few communities that is a suburb within the City. We are asking that you let us correct a situation before it becomes a problem that cannot be corrected. Please pass this bill so we can start immediately. "Again, I am sorry that I could not be here to testify." Thank you, and I'll answer any questions.
Thank you very much. Do any of the members have any questions from the two witnesses at the table?
Thank you, Madam President. Ms. Ricker, you mentioned at the outset that a permit was issued today. Is that the property that has been the discussion in a Civic 25 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 Association meeting the last two months and the Pastor of St. Christopher's came, for the first time in history, came to protest against it as well?
And how many homes were permitted today, this morning? Do you know how many?
And the issue was whether they would be two or three, right? I mean, that was --
Yes. They had originally asked for three. They were told to go to the Zoning Board. They withdrew that application and said they could somehow finagle it around and do it by right. Apparently, according to what I've been told by Mr. Barrilli in your office, apparently they have gotten a permit. 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 We will take a look at the plans. If we think that is according to law, there may be nothing we can do. If it is not, we'll take it to court.
I remember this particular one when it was going to the Zoning Board of Adjustment, and I had seen the plans that were submitted to the Zoning Board of Adjustment. I have not personally seen any plans come in that revised that, and I will have to check on those when I get back to my office.
As we'll see in the next bill, there was a reason when I introduced this legislation on September 29th that I did not wish to alert the community until after the public committee hearing here. Because of the pending Ordinance Doctrine, it would prevent any changes after the Committee reports a bill out with a 27 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 favorable recommendation. Unfortunately, these two neighborhoods and these two bills, Bustleton and Somerton, are very close to each other. The same issue is involved, and the Bustleton group involved in the second bill, the Civic Association decided about days ago to alert the 10 community with that six-page scare 11 brochure that was put out, but in doing 12 so, they alerted all the builders who have been doing this kind of thing for the last several years since the tax abatement and the hot real estate market happened. So it defeated the purpose of what I was trying to do, was keep it secret from the builders. The only way you can do that is to wait until after the hearing, then go back to the community, make any reasonable changes after you explain the bill before final passage. You don't have that opportunity once this kind of thing goes out. 28 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 So I knew that the Somerton builders knew what -- they're the same builders, Bustleton and Somerton, that are looking for these properties to tear down, and so last Tuesday, I had the opportunity to explain the bill to the Somerton community and the Civic Association. They, I think, by standing vote --
-- approved it. And it's a shame, because the very thing I was trying to avoid happened apparently today. And this is an issue that will probably be in court, because there was some very feeble justification for doing three homes on that property instead of two, and a lot of money involved in the difference between the return on investment for three homes for the builder instead of two. And I must say, the Planning Commission dragged its feet on these 29 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 bills for a year and a half. It's a two-week job. It took months. The 4 builders are a lot more comfortable in 5 the Planning Commission office than they 6 are in my office, I can tell you that. 7 Nothing you said today 8 surprises me, and it's a shame. This 9 bill will be reported out with a 10 favorable recommendation. Unfortunately, 11 it won't have any effect on that 12 property, but I think that property's 13 application was made prior to the 14 submission of the introduction of this 15 bill. Hopefully, it will prevent others 16 like it. 17
We were aware that 18 we had to fight this particular property separately, but our second goal was to protect the rest of the community, and this bill will do that.
And I might say, the person we're all familiar with, because he's been in here for years, Tom Chapman, since he's been the 30 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 head of the Planning Commission for just a few short months, he fast-tracked these bills and they were done in a few weeks. So I don't want to put a blanket over Mr. Chapman, because he's been terrific in the short time he's been there. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Ricker.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kelly.
Yes. Thank you, Madam President. Ms. Ricker, I just want to thank you and your President, Mary Jane Hazell, and the members of the Board of the Somerton Civic Association. As a resident of Somerton, I appreciate all the work that you've been doing up there to prevent this type of development. I also want to congratulate and thank Councilman O'Neill for his 31 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 oversight and his dedication into making sure that the developers don't run amuck in Somerton. I know Dominic Ragucci is back there. I just want to acknowledge his presence. He's doing an excellent job for Somerton. And I will say this for the record: I agree with Councilman O'Neill as far as the Planning Commission. I think you have to have a better response and I think you have to have a better oversight into what goes on in many of these areas, especially in the Northeast. Thank you.
Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Do we 32 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 have anyone else that would like to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Seeing no one, I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the title of Bill No. 8 050797. MR. McPHERSON: An ordinance to amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of land located within an area bounded by Grant Avenue, Bustleton Avenue, Bowler Street and the Roosevelt Boulevard.
Good morning, Madam President and members of the Rules Committee. My name is William Kramer. I'm the Senior Zoning Planner in the Development Planning Division of the City Planning Commission. I am here to testify on Bill 050797. This bill was introduced by Councilmember O'Neill 33 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 September 22nd of 2005. This bill is a zoning remapping bill for the Bustleton area of the City, covering approximately 158 acres of land bounded by Bustleton Avenue, Bowler Street, the Roosevelt Boulevard and Grant Avenue. The area is primarily zoned R-4 residential with certain properties maintaining a commercial designation along the major streets in the area. The commercial designations will remain the same under the provisions of this ordinance. This bill will rezone a majority of the residential properties to a designation of R-1, R-1A or R-2 in order to restrict their ability to be subdivided as a matter of right. At the request of the community, this bill was not considered at the Planning Commission meeting of October 17, 2005. At the request of the Law Department, we also have to amend these 34 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 bills, and, again, there were no changes to the bill, but they requested that we add dimensions and increase the size of the maps in order to increase legibility. I would be happy to answer any questions of the Committee, and that concludes my testimony.
Mr. Kramer, I just want to ask you, because it's on the front page of the Please Read This Six-Page Document Immediately. I'm sure it's one of the reasons why the residents are here that showed up. This was put out by the Civic Association's Executive Board. It says here, "Read Immediately. Your property is about to be rezoned without your knowledge," and that's absolutely true. It would have been without anyone's knowledge, but for the communication that went back and forth on this brochure. And it was a purpose. As I mentioned in the previous bill, it was to lock out the 35 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 developers and then work with the community explaining why that had to be done that way and not have a final bill 5 pass until everyone in the community was satisfied with the way they were being changed to accommodate that purpose. The stated purpose of the bill 9 was requested by the Civic Association 18 months ago. There was nothing really that had to be discussed with them, because the bill follows to the letter the instructions of what they wanted. As Mr. Kramer just said, to upgrade the zoning to prevent the tear-downs and subdivision without any neighbor input, which has been a disaster so far for the Bustleton community. But they couldn't just let the cat out of the bag and tell the world that this hearing was today. This is 12 days ago. It wasn't enough for the Civic Association's Executive Committee to do that. By the way, the President of the Civic Association, while a very nice 36 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 gentleman, happens to be the major developer and builder and realtor doing this. There's about four of them. He's the main one. So there was a very good reason for me not publicizing this, although it got publicized by the Civic Association. But they didn't have to go this far. "You must act now. " Not true. " That's absolutely false. Anyone would be able to tell anybody that you couldn't rebuild your house if it burned down and it's an absolute lie even to suggest it. I had an hour-long discussion with the lady that put this together from the Civic Association, explained what I was doing, that I would come to the Civic Association next Wednesday night, their scheduled meeting, having gotten this bill out of Committee quietly, and do the 37 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 full Planning Commission presentation, question and answer and not pass the bill 4 if it took a year until everyone was satisfied and understood the reasons. She chose instead to do this the following day, Saturday a week ago, and these poor people and others who couldn't make it are scared out of their wits over what is going to happen. Because of this, I am going to, after the testimony is taken, I am going to hold this bill until the next date we can have a Rules Committee hearing, which will be November 2nd, and I'm going to the Civic Association next Wednesday night one angry Councilman. And, again, I don't believe the Planning Commission was looking out for the neighbors as much as they were looking out for the builders for the last 18 months or 12 days ago when all this took place overnight. This was put out between a Friday afternoon and a Saturday morning. 38 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 It's an awful lot of information if you didn't get any of it from the Planning Commission. And that was the first notice that the Civic Association had, and they publicized it against the interests of the Bustleton community, in my opinion. So I will be there. There's too many people confused by what was put out here for me to report it out of Committee as if I did something surreptitiously. The builders all know about it now. 12 days to a builder is like 12 years when they have this. They're armed with this when they ask now somebody to sell their house to them. They're armed with this.
This is actually a weapon for them to get the price they want to pay, because the person is scared out of their wits, they're now told on October 19th we would be reporting something out that would no longer allow this subdivision as a matter of right. 39 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 They now have two more weeks, but I don't think it matters. I think what's important is that the community not believe that the City is doing anything to them surreptitiously without the proper motive and not looking out for their best interest. So I will go to the October 26th meeting next Wednesday. I'm sure the Planning Commission will be there to explain the details, and we'll have our meeting, and hopefully on November 2nd we'll report it out favorably. But there are people that came down. If they wish to testify, I believe they should, and I certainly can answer any questions that they have, or Mr. Kramer can, that they have today. But I just want to ask one question. I think everyone in the Committee recognizes that these bills are identical. The Somerton Civic Association, which is as savvy about zoning as any in the City, had a standing 40 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 ovation for the process and that it was done the way it was done and approved it unanimously. The Bustleton Civic Association, whose President is a builder, developer, realtor and should know better, the entire group, because I explained everything in detail to this lady on their Executive Board that put this out, and they're not here today. They were going to bring buses down. They didn't even have the courtesy to show up after they put this out to hundreds of homes that not just me, but I understand members of the Rules Committee have gotten calls and people are worried and the Planning Commission has gotten calls. It's just sad that it had to happen this way. One community gets locked in this morning, and another one is going to take two more weeks to get locked in to the new zoning. Mr. Kramer, the only question I have for you is -- and it really follows 41 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 up, I guess, the question that Councilwoman Verna asked and she'll probably do it again -- how many subdivisions do you have in front of you now in Bustleton that are not approved or will be affected by this? You asked the question very well.
I can answer your question, Councilman. In the last week, I have seen three different applications come in that would be subdividing existing buildings and creating more lots out of it. We have seen three.
Okay. And that's a sin. And maybe you'll see three more in the next two weeks. But the fox had the key to the hen house for the last two years and thought that the hen house was always going to be available to the fox. The fox found out 12 days ago they only have the key to a certain date. It changes the fox's behavior. They get all of 42 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 those hens out of there because they have a time deadline when their key is not going to work anymore. And that's really what this is about, and I really feel bad for the -- I mean, I live in a non-conforming house that was rezoned as part of a remapping to help the whole area. It doesn't affect me at all. I have new developments, $400,000 and $500,000 houses that are being built as non-conforming. Non-conforming is a word that sounds awful. It's not. Anybody with a variance who lives in a non-conforming house, anybody that's had their house upgraded may very well be in a non-conforming situation. It's only done to upgrade the neighborhood. It's not done to downgrade it. There could have been a whole lot of nice things about this upgrading in this Civic Association sixdocument, or whatever it is, that wasn't 43 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 mentioned to at least show the balance. They knew every detail, because I went over it with the lady 10, days ago. 5 But I got that information. If 6 these people -- I certainly would like 7 them to testify if they want to. I've 8 told them I'll be at the meeting next 9 week. This is done for the entire 10 community's benefit, not to hurt anyone, 11 except the ability of builders to just do 12 things without their input.
Thank you, Councilman. Are there any questions or comments from members of the Committee of Mr. Kramer?
I just had one, Madam President. I would like to know if there are any Board members from Bustleton Civic here.
No Board 44 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 member?
Do we have anyone in the audience that would like to testify on this particular bill? Please approach the witness table. Good morning. Kindly identify yourself for the record.
Good morning. Thank you. My name is Robert Zias. I'm a resident of Bustleton.
Thank you. I just wanted to thank everyone for their time this morning. I guess like many folks in the Bustleton community at large, and I see some kind neighbors who have shown up this morning, I find myself a bit ignorant this morning, to be very frank with everyone and candid. 45 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 I don't know much about rezoning. I certainly didn't take that as a part of study in college. What I do know is that I really value the exchange that the public could provide to their community, particularly in advance, to have input and exchange, if you will, substantively to anything that would be proposed that would affect our community. So in the spirit of that, I just had a brief statement to make, and I guess I'll answer any questions, if I'm capable.
I just want to make sure that those residents that are here understood I was not going to let this bill pass, not only without your input but without reacting to it and you agreeing with the final product. The question was the timing of when that input could be given because of the notice that we just saw three tear-downs in the last 12 days that occurred that may not have occurred had I been able to 46 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 do this the way I wanted to. And all of you got this and the people that sent it aren't even here and they haven't sent anyone, which is unheard of at a zoning hearing for a civic group that was requested by them. This bill was requested by the Civic Association. While they may have been upset with what was going on, they knew about the details of what was being done. They requested it months ago, and the only 13 way to do it to prevent their own 14 President from using it -- and I'll 15 guarantee he's one of the three permits 16 that are out there in the last ten days 17 where the subdivisions have occurred -- 18 that they knew that the process beginning next Wednesday night could take a year, and everyone would get their questions answered, because it is specific to stopping specific development. Oftentimes a remapping is just, well, we haven't done a remapping in six years or ten years, let's take another 47 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 look at it, see if we can clean up the map, those kind of things. This is specific to the tear-down issue. And no one in the community was not going to know about it, but they would know about it when it was too late for the developers to do anything with the same knowledge. That's all. I hope everybody understands that. If you don't, I'll go over it with you after the hearing. That's the only reason. And the Civic Association was aware of that when they put this out and defeated the purpose of it. Okay. But I am continuing it until November 2nd so no one can complain that there wasn't input prior to any Council action, and that will be on October 26th.
I appreciate you coming down. I wish they had come down, too.
I agree with that 48 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 sentiment. I just might say despite the alarming nature of the handout, one thing I truly did appreciate, and I'm sure I speak for my entire community, is the fact that it was informative in nature to some extent, whereas I don't know that we're always seeing that as a regular basis for those we have serving our community. And with all due respect and a great amount of resect I would give to the Council, I believe that Bustleton in particular could really benefit from more of that type of exchange, maybe more forums of that. I think your assistant had remarked earlier that he had actually contacted some members of the community, and I'm sitting there as a member of the community asking myself in all honesty, I hadn't heard a single thing from the Council or read anything in the press that this was going on. So, to me, with all due respect, I feel a bit of 49 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 subterfuge here. All I'm here to do is to inform myself.
You don't agree with me, but that's fine. I get elected to have you make a judgment every four years as to whether I make the right decisions.
I had to make a decision on this, and I know I made the right one with the knowledge that I have. And everything you're saying would have been accomplished between today and whenever the community was fully informed and satisfied. But there was a reason, and this lady knew it, and most of the information in here is not true and most of it -- this thing left out some very good information that would have made you feel a lot better about the bill. It chose not to do it. They obviously have their own reasons. But you're here. Let's go. 50 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797
Sure. Basically, the community has had no time to assess the implications or the seriousness that this bill may affect on an individual level within a family or individual living in each of the residential units or just in general for those that may have an interest even for moving in the community. So humbly, we really submit there are serious questions that may be posed in individual cases or in cases of groups, such of us that has shown up, to really assess what the issues are and to inform ourselves and to make a decision. And I assure everyone sitting here today, if I am finding on a personal level that this is a positive thing for the community, much like our friends up in Somerton have done, I'll fully endorse this measure and I will go to the nth degree to do it. But equally, I would caution all of you that if this is something that 51 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 I personally deem as not to the benefit of our particular area of Philadelphia, I will personally seek legal counsel and exercise all four rights to pursue this.
So that being said, there are many inconsistencies apparently in what is being proposed, and I'm just going to highlight a few. For example, why the irregular mix of R-1, R-1A, R-2 and R-4. People in similarly situated lots are having different zoning. There are specific examples, which, of course, Mr. O'Neill, you do have a copy of. You can certainly see that detail, as we'll be also lending some insight to the zoning folks as they come out next week. Further, we do live in an eclectic area, and many houses will be made non-conforming, resulting in hardship to the owners for even simple changes to their homes. This is a potential money 52 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 generator for the City with no benefit to homeowners wanting to make simple changes. The neighborhood does have a long history of lot subdivision, and this bill impacts hundreds for the sake of relatively few remaining dividable lots. In an area of more than 400 impacted single-family dwellings, this is all because of a net number of nine new houses that have been added recently. And I will just close and say thank you very much for your time. I appreciate coming out here and having a forum to exchange thoughts on this, and I appreciate your candor, as well as your integrity to carry this forward and postpone the vote today. Thank you.
You're welcome. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning. My name is Robert Lagomarsino. I live at 53 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 9613 Clark Street in the Bustleton section of Philadelphia. I have lived there for approximately years. 5 My problem with this is -- I'm 6 in favor of it. I'm glad that they're 7 tearing down these houses that are -- 8 some of them that are eyesores and 9 they're putting up sometimes two or three 10 houses in its place. It just happened to 11 me two doors away from me. There are two 12 new singles that went up in place of a 13 house that was an eyesore, and these 14 houses are selling for $450,000. 15 And they're going to eventually 16 add to the City's tax base, add new 17 residents to the area. And in my 18 particular case, I have a house that has 19 a lot adjoining it and I've been paying 20 taxes on that lot for 20 years now just to watch the grass grow. Now, I don't want that to change, after 20 years of me paying taxes, someone is going to come along because they don't want any new houses to 54 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 be put up. That means I can't build something on my lot. I don't think that's right. I think it's un-American. If there's some kind of an issue with it to not put five houses up on a lot that is only designed for one or two, that's fine, but just to stop me, a taxpayer, from doing this, I'm against it. And I really, frankly, don't like the fact that it was trying to -- someone was trying to sneak it in in the back door. That's my honest opinion. Now, I'm going to go to this meeting on Wednesday, and if I can find out information that will change my mind, that will be a different thing.
Excuse me. I just have a quick question. Is your house up for sale?
Possibly. It 55 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 depends on how much I can get for my house.
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
My name is Kathleen Lagomarsino, and that was my husband speaking. I live at 9613 Clark Street. And I concur with everything my husband said. And just like Councilman O'Neill said, a lot of things were in this paper that scared us and we didn't like, but none of the good things were in it. Well, I feel that the good things should have been in it. We should have gotten a pamphlet from him telling us what the good things were, but we never received anything like that. So I just don't like the way the whole thing is going. And it will ultimately hurt our property. So I would appreciate if it wasn't passed. Thank 56 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 you.
You're welcome. Are there any questions or comments from members of the Committee?
I would just like to say to the last couple, and I understand your situation, but you can thank the lady that put this out, because if your house is sold because someone can put two houses there and when this passes, they can only put one, you've had 12 days and you're going to have 14 more. And I don't anticipate beyond November 2nd this bill still sitting in Committee. But nothing is going to happen today that would have happened without this. So somebody in a situation like yours, somebody that the developers are interested in has -- I want to make it clear. You got 14 more days, and you probably wouldn't have had the last 12 with the knowledge that's out there and you wouldn't have the next 14. That's 57 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 days' notice that you can thank Ms. Green for in this thing. Because you're in a different situation than most people. I'm sorry. And I understand it, though.
See, it's not entirely sure that I would even leave the City. I may have this house built and move into it myself to take advantage of the ten-year tax abatement.
Thank you. Any other questions or comments from members of the Committee of the witnesses at the table? (No response.)
Thank you all for coming in. We appreciate your taking the time to express your 58 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 views.
Do we have anybody else in the audience that would like to testify? (No response.)
Seeing no one, this will conclude the public hearing of the Rules Committee. We will now go into our public meeting, and the Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke regarding Bill No. 050510.
Thank you, Madam President. Madam President, I move that Bill 050510 be reported out of Committee --
Mr. Kramer, didn't you indicate that there was an amendment to Bill 505010?
Yes, ma'am, we did. The Law Department wanted us to correct a technical issue with regard to the legend on the map.
We do 59 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 have that. Thank you.
My fault. Sorry. Madam President, I move for the adoption of the amendment to Bill No. 7 050510. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that the amendment as earlier presented be adopted. All in favor will indicate by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it. The motion carries. Again, the Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Madam President, I move that Bill 050510 be reported out of Committee with a 60 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 favorable recommendation as amended. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 6 050510 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation as amended. All in favor will please say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it. The motion carries. Again, the Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke regarding Bill No. 18 050750.
Madam President, I move that Bill 050750 be reported out of Committee with a request for rules suspension, be reported out with a favorable recommendation. (Duly seconded.)
It 61 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 3 050750 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation, also a recommendation the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. All in favor will please say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it. The motion carries. The Chair will now consider Bill No. 050796 and recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Madam President, my notes reflect we have an amendment on this bill.
I move for the adoption of the amendment to Bill 62 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 050796. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that the amendment as previously proposed be approved. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it, the motion carries, and the Chair again recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Madam President, I move that Bill 050796 be reported out of Committee with a rules suspension, be reported out with a favorable recommendation as amended.
It has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 23 050796 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation as amended and further that the rules of Council be 63 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. All in favor will indicate by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. The Chair recognizes Councilman O'Neill regarding Bill No. 050797.
Madam Chair, I think that amendment can be approved at the next -- would you rather the amendment approved on it today? Why don't we approve it today.
The amendment that was introduced by the Planning Commission, I move approval. (Duly seconded.)
It 64 10/19/05 - RULES - 050510, 750, 796, 797 has been moved and seconded that the amendment as proposed by City Planning be approved. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the amendment has been adopted. Again, the Chair recognizes Councilman O'Neill.
Madam Chair, I move that Bill No. 050797 as amended be held until the meeting of the Rules Committee, which I understand is being scheduled for November 2nd, Wednesday, November 2nd at 10:00 a.m.
Thank you. The record will reflect that Bill 23 No. 050797 is being continued until November 2nd. Thank you all very much for 65 your patience. This concludes our public meeting. Everyone have a nice day. (Committee on Rules adjourned at 11:20 a.m.) - - - 66 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on October 19, 2005, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)