Councilman Kenney. Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. (No response.)
Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I occasionally sound upset, it's because the people I represent are upset and confused about what's happening here, and although not confused, I'm trying to get clear, direct answers that will allow us to explain to our constituents exactly what is proposed and do feel frustrated in that effort. That being said, I will continue the effort. The AVI bill has several savings clauses that specify what would happen if a court struck down various aspects of the proposal. Do we have a written opinion from the City Solicitor on the legality of the bill, and specifically using an algebraic equation rather than specifying a millage rate?
We do not. We've Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. talked to them about it. We do not have a legal opinion.
Is there a memo explaining why this is legal under the law that is not a legal opinion?
Again, we've had discussions about it. There's nothing that we have in writing on it.
Has there been research done with respect to whether or not this is legal by the Law Department?
No. We had a series of meetings with them about it. We didn't ask for anything in writing.
Okay. So if there is no written opinion, I think I would like to request that a written opinion be delivered to the Chair from Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. the City Solicitor that specifically covers the aspects of the bill for which there are savings clauses, the authority to levy taxes based on certified market value and the use of an algebraic equation to set a tax rate rather than specifying the millage rate in the bill 9 itself. I think we've covered in some detail one of the savings clauses, and it's clear that if that savings clause, the 1 percent for the City and the and a half percent for the School District, go into effect, that we'll collect somewhere between a billion and and a half billion dollars in property taxes next year, and I think we're raising all sorts of -- there are a lot of uncertainties built into what is being proposed, the fact that there are savings clauses, et cetera, but the biggest uncertainty I think that -- or the biggest concern I now have about the bill 25 is the concept that there will not be Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. potentially AVI done next year. And I recognize you said you might be willing to take out the 2014 automatic adjustment.
Okay. But what in the bill, specifically since the bill was written with a potential non-AVI move next year, what in the bill 13 specifically would happen as our tax rate next year if AVI was not completed for some reason, either court action or something else? If we don't get AVI because we're not ready for some reason, things slow down, the assessments come back way different than expected and we can't get the bills out by October 1st, what exactly happens as a consequence of not getting to AVI, not being able to get out real property value assessments by October 1st or the court striking it down? What happens? Explain to us what Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. the tax we will collect will be.
Well, there are a few answers of what will happen if we don't have AVI. And, again, I should emphasize that we're confident we're getting it done in September. I don't want you to come away thinking that we think that's -- that there's a substantial risk that won't happen. We're confident that that's going to happen. If we don't have AVI, then the big risk to our collections is what happens with the common level ratio. If the State Board still says we're outside of the acceptable range, we would see a dramatic hit to our budget, probably tens of millions of dollars. So that's one impact of what would happen if we didn't go to AVI. In terms of what the actual millage rate would be, it would probably depend on what the court ordered.
The question Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. is, what specifically does the bill call for if we don't get to AVI next year? What happens in the bill? Not from a court order. We don't get the bills out by October 1st or a court says that formula doesn't work, what do we collect in taxes next year? That's a simple question. We can't collect it under the formula. What do we collect in taxes next year?
The bill 16 contemplates our going to AVI. The fail-safe is if the tax mechanism is kicked out.
The bill 20 contemplates our going to AVI in 2013 and, if not, in 2014. I'm talking about the bill as written, not as you're willing to amend it, what you sent to Council. What happens if we don't get to go to AVI this year? Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC.
Then we go to the 1 percent? Is that the part you're talking about?
No. I'm just saying it doesn't go to the 1 percent if we can't get the bills out by October 1st.
But, as I said, I mean, we're confident that we're getting them out.
Why then in the structuring of the bill did you build in a 2014 maybe we won't?
As I said, you've raised a good point about that, and we're willing to take that out.
I understand you're willing to take it out now that it's been brought to your attention. The fact of the matter is, you put that in Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. there for a reason, because at the time the bill was written, you were not certain. And my question is, what happens if the formulaic approach can't be used because the assessments come back or are very wrong by October 1st? What is our tax next year?
Again, what I'm saying to you is, we're confident that they'll get out and we'll take the '14 out.
I understand, but that's not the question. What happens if we can't get the assessments out by October 1st? What's our tax rate? How much money will we collect next year?
If we don't get the assessments out, then we would still have our current assessments.
We would not. We would have passed this bill. What would be the tax rate -- how much would we collect if we can't actually get Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. all this done, knowing that we can't come back after June 30th and set millage under the old system?
If the Administration misses its target, which I know is unthinkable that's going to happen --
So we have the old assessments, right, and then we'd have a millage rate calculated under those assessments.
No, we wouldn't. If we pass this bill, that won't be the case.
Because we wouldn't have gotten the bills out -- so the new millage rate will be calculated based on current assessed value, which is --
Right. Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC.
-- which is at least half, based on your testimony, of the actual value.
I said we don't know and that we won't know that until the assessments are done. That's what I said about where values would wind up.
Okay. Thank you, Mr. President. I know my time has expired.
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Jones.
Thank you, Mr. President. I will be very brief because we're overdue. You ran an efficient hearing. You ran right through the break. So I'm going to be real brief.
Last year in the last Administration we brought a bill Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. forth that talked about evaluating outsourcing, evaluating in-house work being done, and we were in negotiations with the Administration about a formula that would look at that in some key procurement areas to see if we were getting value by contracting out or whether greater value could be sought by internal workforces. Thank you for alluding to the fact that Public Property was going to pick up some people to look at doing maintenance in-house as opposed to contracting out. I believe Councilman Green also introduced some legislation to that effect, but I want you to have full alert that we're going to be looking at this. The first part of my comments today was on revenue sources that were being left on the table, meaning not collecting taxes. The second part of my questioning today dealt with expenses, meaning overtime and whether or not we were being prudent by way of hiring and when we Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. decided to hire. The final shoe to fall, if you would, is contracting out and getting as much as we can out of internal workforces versus making the decision to hire outside labor. That's in construction and in professional services. So that's just a heads-up to the department heads that this will be a theme in our questioning this year. Thank you, Mr. President.
Thank you, Councilman. Real quick. Not a specific question relating to this proposed budget. There have been a number of conversations centering around other revenue generation methods, and I had actually hoped in this particular proposed budget one of them would be listed as a revenue stream as it related to FY13 budget, municipal advertising. And what I need to know is, what's the threshold -- and I understand that this Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. is the Mayor's budget. He submits it to Council. We have to approve or we have to make adjustments, but there are what I believe to be good ideas had by members of Council, and it's always been relatively difficult to get our issues in the Mayor's proposed budget. And that's just historical, not relating to this particular Administration. I remember last time we had a challenge that -- actually we passed a tobacco tax, which was somewhat challenging because we realized a whole lot of people actually liked to chew tobacco. They came down here and they were all upset, and cut some deals. We got a reasonable number as it relates to the impact, and we took a little hit from it, but we thought we were trying to help the City of Philadelphia. I don't know how much we raised, but we had certain projections. The Administration says, No, we're not getting any money. But anyway, it was what it was. Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. So in this particular issue and the conversations earlier, we talked about this municipal advertising and we talked about the fact that even if there was a swift conclusion as it relates to the actual proposal, we probably couldn't implement it in its entirety for the fiscal year. There were some conversations about the fact that we did the same thing on the sugar proposal, where we couldn't implement that, but with some projections. So as we get the budget, I don't see municipal advertisement in there, and I'm actually not surprised. What's the threshold that we as a Council have to meet to get something in this document?
I guess that's on me to try to answer. I think, Council President, that the way that we have tried to go about both sharing ideas and to validating the ideas, I think it's all a function of just timing. I think Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. that's the easiest way to answer that question. I know that we are still validating, because we're going back and forth meeting and working with your staff. All of us are really trying to see exactly what it would mean so that whenever something does get placed in the proposed budget, that we are all -- we're in agreement, that this is what we can expect. And I think that we got the information, we got the ideas, and we've been working together. I think it shows a great way for us to work together to say that if once those ideas have been validated and both of us -- both you and the Mayor can sit down and say, Okay, this is where we're going to go, I think you'll find that they'll make it into the budget. I just think it's a timing thing, and I think that we have to just trust and work with each other so that we can end up making it into the next one, Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. or even if some parts of it will make it into this one, I think that will happen in the next and over the next few weeks.
Well, that sounds nice. I don't interpret what's been happening the way you just indicated in your response. This is something that we've been talking about since last year. There has been one meeting. From my perspective, to push to get this at a minimum in, as you call it, the validation stage has been one-sided. I'm concerned that it's not being taken seriously. The reality is is that this is not something that's not happening all over the country. We've had a number of proposals. A member of the Administration indicated that there was going to be some level of process relating to them, and maybe I misunderstood, so we had a follow-up meeting. We basically put information on the table. That's as far as it's gone. Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. We've actually gotten a couple of informal quotes about some advertisement opportunities down here with some prominent municipal buildings that are in the millions of dollars. So I just need to understand what do we have to do to get this on the serious track as it relates to being in a budget proposal that we can concur on and move ahead as it relates to providing some much-needed revenue to the City, outside of taxing people, be it AVI or any other potential tax that we may put on the table?
Well, again, I will actually go back. I know that I get briefed on most of these, where ideas are and especially when the meetings occur and what are the deliverables that come out of those meetings. If I've missed something, I will actually go back and I'll deal with it, and I will sit down and I'll talk with you.
Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. Okay. Can you put the Love Park Garage on that list also, which was another conversation that we've been having?
In terms of asset sales. All right. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Green.
Thank you, Mr. President. I've got some questions related to the assumptions behind the algebraic formula. So the target revenue number is 512.6 million for 2013. You plan to collect 445 million of current year real estate taxes for the year 2013.
Okay. And that's based on a current payment rate of 87 percent? Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC.
Eighty-seven and a half. So it is your assumption that the payment rate under AVI is going to be, if we were to go to AVI, is going to be about the same as it has been historically?
Has that been the case in other jurisdictions that have made a tax shift like this?
Yeah. I think what they've seen is a change in the level of appeals, and that's what we've put into the plan, is a change in the level of appeals.
My question is, has that been the case in other cities that have made a tax shift like this?
That's my understanding from conversations we've had, that that's kind of similar. Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC.
And so you have a written memo or research or some analysis that demonstrates how collections have changed in other cities that have gone through this in your file 15 somewhere?
Well, I mean, there's no point in -- you know what conclusion you want now, so I'm sure the research or the memo will match that. My question was, did you bother to do a written analysis prior to making the assumption that the collections would stay the same as they have historically? Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC.
As I said, we don't have it in writing, but we can give you a memo if you want one.
And it's based entirely on conversations with our Revenue Commissioner?
With our Chief Assessor, okay. So it is -- what kind of evidence would you call that?
Well, I would call him someone who really understands the field. So I would call that good evidence.
Good evidence. I would call it circumstantial or circumspect in that it's one data point from one individual that is not backed up by any research. Does the Administration have any estimates regarding going forward how many appeals there will be and the potential revenue impact of the appeals? Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC.
We have an appeal amount that goes up from 200 million to about 960, I think.
And what assumptions are made with respect to the granting of appeals versus historical trends?
That they're much higher, that the 960 is -- it's a much higher level of appeals being granted.
Not appeals being granted. How much revenue are we likely to lose -- what is the assumption about the loss of revenue as a result of appeals?
We're losing about -- it assumes we lose about $960 million worth of assessments through the appeals process. So then you would multiply that by the tax rate to get to the amount.
So the formula builds in $960 million of mistakes? Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC.
Okay, appeals granted. So that's basically an assumption of how many appeals, how many people are you assuming appeal?
We actually did it by dollar amount rather than by people who appeal.
In other cities, what has been the dollar amount of appeals compared to the overall assessed value?
Is there any written analysis of that prior to you presenting us with this budget?
There's no written analysis of that, no, but we can get you that.
And what is that data based on? The experience of your assessor? Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC.
Yes, it is. But one of the other things is, what will happen here will be different from what happened in other places. The change in values will be different. What's happened here historically is very different. So, I mean, we had to make an estimate there and I'm not sure that what happened in other places would necessarily tell us what will happen here.
Our assumption was that you would see a substantial increase because you would see changes in assessments. But it is an estimate. The number could be different.
What is the consequence on collections from the 491 million we're expecting if actually 2 billion of the appeals are granted?
From the 458 million? If 2 billion are granted, then Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. the number would be much lower. If --
Well, we can get you that for 2 billion. I don't have that off the top of my head. If it was 500 million, then the number would be higher. It would change with the number that was appealed, the number of appeals that were granted.
Isn't the answer dependent upon what the actual aggregate valuable taxable property is in the City, which you've already said you don't know whether that's two or four times?
The appeal -- the level of appeals granted as a percent of the total assessment is what will determine the impact. Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC.
Right. So isn't this $960 million assumption way off if it's two times current value? In other words, on what aggregate taxable value assessment was the $960 million assumption made?
For the 960, I think all we did was take out the -- we just took out the common level ratio and used the 960 against the number without a common level ratio.
Councilman, you're the last question, so we're indulging you a little longer. The clock is not broke, though.
Councilman, I have four pages of questions I haven't gotten to, so... Okay. So basically there's no 21 relationship between the $960 million potential part of this algebraic formula and what the overall aggregate property tax value is; is that what you're saying?
No, that's not what Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. I said. I said it was based on a number that adjusted out the common level ratio.
But you haven't stress-tested this individual portion of the overall formula?
We do know -- well, we can show you we have had -- the changes in this number obviously have an impact on what you collect, and we can show you that.
So the City Code already has a deferral provision allowing the Revenue Department to grant applications for homeowners to defer until time of sale increase in real estate taxes due to an increase in assessments of over 15 percent. This is currently the law. The applicant has to demonstrate that it would be a hardship to pay, which will obviously be the case in many cases. What in the formula takes into account this existing Philadelphia law and the likelihood that people in areas Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. that are likely to see a lot of assessments will be able to defer most of their increase in assessments until their sale under this existing provision of the City Code?
Yeah. That's something that's kind of built into that appeal loss number. We've treated them as kind of the same.
Well, describe what portion of the appeal loss is related to this law and what portion of the appeal loss is related to just a granting of appeals?
Councilman. Will you please provide that to Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. the Chair?
Councilman, I have four pages of questions here, and I intend to try to get through them today. Fortunately, we're on at the moment -- or let's see here. So the homestead exemption itself, the bill targets a $15,000 homestead exemption. What's the average assessed value of residential property in Philadelphia today?
The average market value of a property in Philadelphia today is about $50,000.
Fifty thousand dollars. And so how did the Administration settle on the 15,000 exclusion amount?
Well, we actually looked more at where -- we looked at a number that we thought would provide some Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. relief, but particularly for lower valued houses. Again, it is a number that was more art than science.
Okay. What's the average market value under the new system?
But it's likely two to four times higher than the 50,000?
Okay. So let's call it $200,000. Let's just say it's at the upper limit of your -- is there an analysis of how much the $15,000 exclusion means to people, whether it's $100,000 or $200,000?
Sure. If you have a house, for example, that's at the lower end of values and --
I'm sorry, Mr. Dubow. I apologize. My question was not about a particular house, because Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. obviously if the house is worth 15,000, they'll pay no taxes. The question is in general how this relates to the distribution of taxes we collect from residential collections versus commercial/industrial collections. In other words, the higher we set that homestead exemption, the more tax relief is going to be given to residents and --
-- the more taxes, as a consequence, will be paid on the commercial and industrial side.
So how much of the total percentage of taxes that we are going to collect under the new system are residential and how much as a percentage are current collections residential?
I think now the current residential is in the 60 to 65 percent. We did an analysis of what the homestead might cost depending on where Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. the tax rate wound up. I don't have the numbers in my head, so we can get you that. And obviously we didn't then go to what's the percent residential and commercial, but we can provide you that.
I just said we'd have to -- that's something we'd have to go back and check.
It will be less because of the homestead exemption, if that's enacted.
Even without the homestead exemption, wouldn't it be less?
It depends on the changes in assessments for commercial and residential. Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC.
What's the average assessed value of commercial and industrial properties today in terms of its comparison to actual market value?
Okay. Particularly in light of the Five Year Plan rehousing cost as a percentage of household income in Philadelphia, the Plan notes that over 41 percent of homeowners with mortgages and almost 59 percent of renters pay 30 percent or more of their household income on housing costs. Paying 30 percent or less of household income for housing costs is the commonly accepted definition of housing affordability. Does the Administration have estimates about how AVI will impact this metric of housing affordability and, in particular, if 15,000 is the proper number to allow us to meet this metric of housing affordable for our most vulnerable homeowners? Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC.
Because we don't know where AVI will wind up with properties, we don't have that analysis, but a homestead exemption would obviously be a help, and to the extent that relatively overvalued houses were on the lower end of the value scale, then AVI would help with that too.
So there is no way for us to know how AVI will affect housing affordability and what the appropriate place to set the homestead exemption at to effect housing affordability for our most vulnerable citizens unless we have the actual numbers to apply to the homestead exemption and the total aggregate amount of assessed real property in the City of Philadelphia; isn't that correct?
I think even when you have all that information, figuring out the right level for the homestead exemption won't immediately answer your question. I think there's always going Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. to be some level of art in where you want the homestead exemption to be.
That is true, but without those missing pieces of the formula, it's hard for us to know what impact 15,000 versus, say, 35,000 is going to have on the ground with respect to housing affordability?
Thank you. There's another sort of issue. The legislation sets a July 31st deadline for homeowners to apply to the Office of Property Assessment for the homestead exclusion, but we don't have state-enabling legislation authorizing a homestead exclusion and people will not receive their new assessments until September. So how will people know by July 31st, especially if there has not Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. yet been state action, that they should be applying for their homestead exemption?
Right. Well, if there hasn't been state action by then, that obviously would be a real issue for us, and we're pushing to get state action by then. But if they don't have it by then, we'd have to go back and look at that and figure out what an appropriate date would be.
But the bill 14 as presented currently contemplates it must be presented by July 31st.
And people will not have received notices of their taxes for next year until September.
Right. We're assuming that people will want -- we'll make sure people know that they're eligible, because every homeowner is eligible, and that people will want to apply for it. Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC.
So what's our plan prior to people receiving their tax notice to let them know prior to July 31st that they're eligible for a homestead exemption, which has not yet been passed by the State Legislature?
Well, we would have a plan to have a whole communication strategy around that, around all of the relief items that are available for people.
Okay. I believe that in response to a previous question I asked, according to -- this is part of your Five Year Financial and Strategic Plan. According to IHS Global Insight, the average residential real estate property value in the county increased to $180,330 in 2011. When you consider that it's currently today, according to your testimony, $50,000 and it's increased to $180,330, IHS Global at least has the increase in aggregate value, at least with respect to Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. residential, at more than three and a half times the current taxable assessed property value, and that's probably where you got the numbers that you were mentioning to PICA as three to four times.
It's actually not where we got those numbers. And assessments may be there or may come out some place different, but that's --
So do you agree with the statement that's in the Five Year Financial and Strategic Plan that you presented to PICA that the average residential real estate property value in the county is $180,330 in 2011?
I agree that that's the average home price and I agree that they've increased percent. I don't 21 know what that will mean before we wind 22 up with assessments. 23
Okay. The 24 Five Year Plan revises -- and this has 25 been touched on briefly. The Five Year Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. Plan revises real estate transfer tax growth rate significantly in FY13, 4 percent in '13 and 4 percent in '15 and 5 '16. In the quarterly -- and there's been a discussion about this assumption here today, which I won't repeat, but it was testified to by the Budget Director that it's reasonable given how much we used to collect from this tax and that there's been pent-up demand. Hasn't there been pent-up demand this year, and why do we think the pent-up demand will be realized next year?
There is -- yeah, there is pent-up demand going on right now and it keeps building up, and the transfer tax has been relatively flat, but that's -- our projections are based on projections of housing sales and property values growing that were given to us by our economic advisor as well as what the economists at the Fed think. So that's a consensus opinion.
Will you Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. please provide your economic analysis to the Chair, Ms. Rhynhart?
The Administration reported that the revenue estimate in the most recent Quarterly Managers Report for real estate transfer tax actually went down by $5 million compared to what was budgeted.
That's right, and that's consistent with -- what we have seen is, transfer tax has been relatively flat for the past few years, and that's consistent with what IHS and the economists are seeing as well, and then they expect the rebound to occur in Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. a few years, over the next few years.
Okay. I have additional questions on the Five Year Plan which we can get to, but for now, I will -- because I understand we're going to recess this hearing. I do want to make a couple of quick points, and, that is, apparently there's no memo or written legal opinion as to the legality of this. We're building in a formulaic approach. We're building in the possibility for a lot of contingencies here. One, that we won't get to AVI; two, that if we do get to AVI, in other words, we get the assessments done on time and we send out the bills on time, that the courts may not uphold this, and there's two grounds that are specifically in the bill 21 pursuant to which the courts may not uphold this legislation, and I think that there's a lot of uncertainty with respect to -- including the overall aggregate value, how that impacts what homestead Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. exemptions and other things should be, and just for myself, Mr. President, there are many, many unanswered important questions that need to be addressed before I think I and the public and others will feel comfortable with any sort of formulaic approach to this year's budget. Thank you, Mr. President.
Councilman, I agree. I think that you can include most of, if not all, of the members in terms of level of concern, the uncertainty of a lot of this. So what I'd like to do, if there are no other members who are interested in asking questions today, I would like to recess the Five Year Plan until Wednesday, March 28th. So I would ask that you all come back.
I will talk to Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. you afterwards, but, no, I won't be here. But I'll talk to you afterwards.
Okay. I'm assuming there's someone else from the Administration. We have some veteran members up there.
So I assume there will be a few questions. That's the good thing about government, there's always somebody to pitch in when someone can't be there.
As you see, Councilman Jones has capably stepped in when I was out of the room. So what I'd like to do now, we're going to recess the Five Year Plan Discover Works Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/26/12 - WHOLE - BILL 120164, ETC. and we will have the Capital hearings on Wednesday, March 28th at 11:00 a.m.
We're doing the Capital hearings on the 28th or the Five Year Plan?
We're going to do the Five Year Plan first. I anticipate there will be just a few questions, and then we'll immediately go into Capital.
Got it. com CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on March 26, 2012, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. -------------------- MICHELE L. com A ability 59:10 60:22 74:16 75:15 76:6 153:24 able 38:6 50:6 71:7,17 72:6 75:10 97:8,19 115:14 120:8 125:20 127:22 141:7,11 144:6 159:5,6,23 166:22 190:3 absentee 63:23 Absolutely 54:13 72:24 absorb 71:17 abuse 20:5 72:16 accept 49:9,10 acceptable 167:17 accepted 195:17 accessible 18:12 accident 45:14 accidentally 48:15 50:2 accomplished 135:11 138:2 accomplishme... 19:8,12 account 8:12 189:24 accountant 79:5 accounts 105:6 105:9 106:7 accurate 13:25 79:11 96:16 accurately 207:5 achieved 19:11 acknowledge 31:24 acknowledge... 32:16 action 166:15 198:2,6,8 active 27:13 activities 22:9 162:16 activity 89:23 actual 13:17 14:4 48:11 49:16 54:15 56:14,22 66:17 87:8 88:8,9,23 102:6 103:2,4 103:5,6,15,25 140:24 142:4 142:12 145:16 145:25 167:22 172:4 176:7 187:13 195:5 196:16 actualize 157:16 actuary 107:10 108:7 109:7 add 133:19 136:22 150:6 153:10 154:17 161:8 added 84:3 adding 30:11 122:22 132:2 133:10,13 addition 11:2 additional 12:21 13:10,12 22:3 24:13 25:7 36:17 38:8 87:14 104:12 123:9 153:8 203:4 Additionally 7:9 address 126:10 addressed 204:5 adequate 17:21 37:6 adequately 31:8 adjust 71:7 adjusted 189:3 adjustment 147:3 166:5 adjustments 175:4 administered 19:23 administration 3:24 4:22 10:6 12:19 14:9,12 14:15 15:5 22:22 23:3 47:4,25 48:12 49:13,19 53:12 98:19 109:23 117:24 118:14 119:13 135:5 135:10,18 136:10 137:24 157:11 171:8 172:25 173:5 175:10,23 178:20 183:22 191:21 195:19 202:14 205:11 Administratio... 57:18 85:3 148:23 administrative 105:8 106:18 administrativ... com 115:4 135:23 139:22 147:3 147:18 176:21 177:2 187:13 196:24 answers 163:11 167:4 anticipate 108:3 128:9 206:9 anticipated 5:3 14:25 16:15 99:18 143:24 anticipation 140:23 anti-obesity 20:17 anti-poverty 158:7,14,25 159:17,20 160:7 162:2 anti-smoking 20:17 anti-violence 15:14 101:25 anybody 91:18 94:4 anymore 134:21 anyway 43:22 148:16 175:25 Apologies 23:20 apologize 192:24 apparently 203:9 appeal 46:16 47:6 50:20 87:12 89:22 90:3,12,17,20 184:2 185:7,10 187:22 190:9 190:12,14 appealed 86:21 90:2 187:10 appealing 47:8 appeals 45:21 45:23,25 47:12 47:16 86:15,18 87:21 89:14,17 90:6,13 91:22 91:23 113:25 181:16,18 183:24,25 184:7,11,12,16 184:20 185:2,5 185:6,13 186:23 187:10 187:23 190:15 appeared 29:22 appears 2:3 25:17 applaud 161:20 apples-to-appl...
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