COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:35 p.m. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN BILL GREEN COUNCILMAN WILLIAM K. GREENLEE COUNCILMAN JAMES KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO RESOLUTIONS 100168, 100169, 100170, 100171, 100172, 100381, 100382, 100383, 100384, 100385, 100386, 100387, 100388, 100389, 100390, 100391, 100392, 100393, 100394, 100395, 100396, 100397, 100398, 100399, 100400, 100401, 100465 and 100469 - - - 2
Good afternoon, everyone. This is a public hearing of the Committee of the Whole. I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the titles of Resolution Nos. 100168, 100169, 100170, 100171 and 100172. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Point of order, Madam President.
Yes, sir. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I've just been informed that we're going to hold 100170.
Very well. Thank you. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you. MR. McPHERSON: Resolution 20 100168, appointing Christopher P. McGill to the Board of Directors for the Old City Special Services District. Resolution 100169, appointing Carolyn Pfeiffer to the Board of Directors for the Old City Special 3 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. Services District. Resolution 100171, appointing Albert Taus to the Board of Directors for the Old City Special Services District. Resolution 100172, appointing Peter C. Rothberg to the Board of Directors for the Old City Special Services District.
Do we have anyone that would like to testify? Please approach the witness table, kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. (Witness approached witness table.)
Good afternoon. Cynthia Philo, President and CEO of the Old City District. Thank you very much for your time today. Chris McGill, Carolyn Pfeiffer, Al Taus and Peter Rothberg unfortunately could not be here today. They had other 4 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. meetings that they had to attend to. They do send their regards, and they are very excited about being part of the Old City District Board. We've been operating since 1998, and with your help, each one of the Councilmembers here, and especially Councilman Frank DiCicco, the District has been a premiere business improvement district in the City. I would ask that these members be put forth and approved to serve on our Board.
Thank you very much. Any questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Do we have anyone else to testify on these resolutions? (No response.) 5 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc.
Seeing no one, I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the titles of the following resolutions: 100381, 100382, 100383, 100384, 100385, 100386, 100387, 100388, 100389, 100390, 100391, 100392, 100393, 100394, 100395, 100396, 100397, 100398, 100399, 100400 and 100401. MR. McPHERSON: Resolution 11 100381, appointing Rob Neducsin to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100382, appointing William J. O'Brien to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100383, appointing Christopher McGill to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100384, appointing Mary Dougherty to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. 6 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. Resolution 100385, appointing Irene Madrak to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100386, appointing Allen Newman to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100387, appointing Victor Ostroff to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100388, appointing Bruce Kravetz to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100389, appointing Joe Abruzzi to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100390, appointing Rick Carocci to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100391, appointing 7 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. Bruce Cooper to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100392, appointing Robert Swarbrick to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100393, appointing Mike Rose to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100394, appointing Gertrude Solkov to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100395, appointing Fran Sorokin to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100396, appointing Andrew Lipton to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100397, appointing Terri Loring to the Board of Directors 8 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100398, appointing Rich Rivera to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100399, appointing Jack Goldberg to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100400, appointing Sam Kroungold to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District. Resolution 100401, appointing Dan Neducsin to the Board of Directors for the Manayunk Special Services District.
Thank you. Do we have anyone to testify on any of the resolutions? (Witness approached witness table.)
Good 9 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good afternoon, President Verna and members of City Council. My name is Jane Lipton. I'm the Executive Director of the Manayunk Special Services District. I'm here today to present testimony on the appointments for the 2010 Board of the Manayunk Special Services District. In 1997, the Manayunk Special Services District was developed and sponsored by dedicated members of the New Manayunk Corporation, known today as the Manayunk Development Corporation. These pioneer Manayunk property owners, merchants and residents saw the need for a business improvement district whereby owners and merchants agreed to assume an additional tax assessment on their properties in order to provide special services, including street maintenance, streetscape improvements, marketing 10 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. initiatives, canal improvements, capital projects and event planning. For the past years, the MSSD 5 and the Manayunk Development Corporation 6 have partnered with each other and other 7 community stakeholders to promote 8 economic development within our 9 commercial district. With the resources 10 of the MSSD, the District has been able 11 to perform daily sidewalk street cleaning 12 and supplemental trash removal, market 13 and promote and support the entire business district, undertake long-range planning for the business district and waterfront areas, work with the City and State to raise capital funds for public infrastructure, maintain specific street furniture and lighting within the district, maintain hardscape and landscaped areas in and around our parking lots, partner with the community and Fairmount Park to maintain and clean the towpath and our local parks, plan and execute major events, such as our 11 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. award-winning Manayunk Arts Festival, and we work with the community and residents around quality of life issues. The Manayunk Arts Festival, by the way, is in its 21st year and will take place days from today, and we 8 cordially invite all of you to attend 9 this wonderful event. 10 The MSSD is an important 11 component to our community, and serving on the Board is both an honor and a privilege that our members do not take lightly. As we present you with our list of appointed candidates today, we would like you to know that we have worked closely with our community, the Mayor's Office and the office of our Councilman, Curtis Jones, Jr., to develop this list of names for your approval. We thank you all for your time and consideration.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions from 12 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. members of the Committee? (No response.)
Again, I thank you. Do we have anyone else to testify on these resolutions? (No response.)
Seeing no one, I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the title of Resolution 12 No. 100469. MR. McPHERSON: Resolution 14 nominating 21 individuals for consideration by the Mayor as appointees to the Police Advisory Commission.
Thank you. This hearing is being held to fulfill the requirements of the Executive Order No. 8-93, which establishes the framework for selecting members of the Police Advisory Commission. For the record, I would like to note that pursuant to Resolution 100272, 13 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. Council's Committee on Public Safety has already held an extensive hearing at which all applicants seeking to be nominated received an opportunity to submit their testimony. That hearing occurred on June 1st. Thereafter, members of the Committee on Public Safety duly considered 50 applications. On June 8th, the Committee adopted a report setting forth its recommended list of nominees and 13 directed the Chief Clerk to distribute 14 copies of that report to all members of 15 Council. 16 Finally, at Council's June 10th 17 session, Councilwoman Miller introduced 18 the resolution we are considering today. 19 If the Committee of the Whole approves 20 the resolution, it will be considered by 21 Council at its June 17th session. I would like to commend Councilwoman Miller, Chair of the Committee on Public Safety, and her colleagues on the Committee for managing 14 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. this very thorough application process. Also for the record, I would ask Mr. McPherson to read the names of the individuals recommended by the 6 Committee on Public Safety and contained 7 in Appendix A to this resolution. 8 MR. McPHERSON: Terrance H. 9 Barnes; Rachel E. Branson; Jamira Burley; 10 Ronald A. Burton; Devon Cade; Robert S. 11 Cavanaugh; Mujeeb Chaudhary; James C. 12 Crumlish, III; Rodney Lee Dunn; Sheryl L. 13 Haynes; Cassandra C. Hines; Edward James, 14 Jr.; Keith E. Kunz; Elizabeth Mell; 15 Andrea Nicole Phillips; Curtis M. Pontz; 16 Oscar Rosario; Robert P. Shine, Sr.; Joi 17 Spraggins; Joseph T. Stapleton; and Louis 18 Troup, Jr. 19
Thank 20 you. 21 Are there any witnesses to testify on this resolution? (No response.)
Seeing none, we will now consider 15 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. Resolution 100465. MR. McPHERSON: Resolution 4 appointing Richie McKeithen to the position of Chief Assessment Officer of the Office of Property Assessment.
Please approach the witness table. (Witness approach witness table.)
Good afternoon and welcome. MR. McKEITHEN: Thank you. Good afternoon.
Please identify yourself for the record. MR. McKEITHEN: My name is Richie McKeithen.
Mr. McKeithen, would you give us some background information on your qualifications for this position. MR. McKEITHEN: Certainly. I have prepared testimony. Would you like me -- 16 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc.
Oh, please. MR. McKEITHEN: Good afternoon, Council President Verna and members of City Council. My name is Richie McKeithen. I am here to testify on Resolution No. 100465, which, if approved by Council, would confirm my appointment to the position of Chief Assessment Officer for the Office of Property Assessment. Under Bill No. 090706, which became law earlier this year and was approved by the voters at the May election, the City has adopted sweeping reforms to the way the City assesses the value of real property and handles appeals of those assessments. This reform requires the splitting of assessment and appeals function into two separate and independent agencies, the Office of Property Assessment, OPA, which will handle the primary assessment function, and the Board of Property 17 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. Assessment Appeals, which will handle appeals of assessments made by the OPA. As Chief Assessment Officer, I will be charged with running the day-to-day operations of the Office of Property Assessments and overseeing the OPA staff. As my resume reflects, I am well-positioned to take on the significant task of reforming Philadelphia's property assessment system. In addition to my formal education, which includes a Bachelor's Degree in Business Management and an MBA, I have both the technical knowledge and management expertise necessary to ensure that we create a system that all taxpayers can have faith in produces property assessments that are accurate, equitable and reflective of the actual value of properties. I began my career in the field of property appraising in 1988 working for the District of Columbia as a 18 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. Residential Appraiser. As a Residential Appraiser, my duties included deriving annual assessments on residential properties that reflected a 100 percent market value on those properties. I also assisted in formulating the analysis used to calibrate the models for the value of residential property in the neighborhoods in which I worked. After six years as a Residential Appraiser, I began serving the District of Columbia as a Commercial Appraiser, which included industrial, office, retail, large multi-family and vacant land properties. As with my previous role, my primary job was to deliver the annual assessments that reflected the true market value of the property. The 11 years I spent as an appraiser have given me the technical knowledge critical to the CAO position. In addition to the street-level experience I gained as a commercial and real estate appraiser, I also have 19 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. significant management-level experience. Since 2001, I have led assessment offices in Richmond, Virginia, Hampton, Virginia and most recently the District of Columbia, where I served as Director of Real Property Tax Administration. As Director, I oversaw the daily operation of the Real Property Tax Administration and its staff. 8 billion in revenue. In DC, I gained extensive experience with assessment technology, including the Computer-Assisted Mass Appraisal System. Additionally, I was responsible for reviewing and writing policies and procedures that met industry standards regarding the assessment of property. I also ensured that my office communicated with the public about our important work through television and 20 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. newspaper interviews, as well as public meetings. I am a longstanding member of the International Association of Assessment Officers and have worked closely with the IAAO to apply standards and improve processes to enhance the performance of the District of Columbia's assessment office. My years serving the public 12 in the property appraisal field have 13 given me tools necessary to deliver a 14 world-class property assessment system 15 that Philadelphia deserves. This is a 16 system that will be equitable, 17 transparent and professional.
Above all, 18 this is a system that will provide 19 residents with an assessment that 20 reflects the actual value of their 21 properties. 22 Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I am happy to answer any questions that you may have at this time.
Thank 21 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. MR. McKEITHEN: Good afternoon, sir.
I didn't get a chance when we had an opportunity to meet with you earlier to get any level of detail because I had to leave that meeting, but, first of all, welcome -- MR. McKEITHEN: Thank you.
-- at this level of your involvement with the City of Philadelphia, and if you're confirmed, welcome again. MR. McKEITHEN: Thank you, sir.
I just want to ask you a couple of quick questions with respect to some of the challenges -- and I'm sure you were asked this, but I haven't had an opportunity to hear your 22 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. response -- as it related to certain communities and based on where you worked in the past. I'm assuming that this has come up. When you have long-term residents that live in areas that essentially -- I don't want to use the term "gentrification." I hate that term. In areas where there's a significant amount of investment that elevates the value of homes and you have residents who have lived in those communities all their lives, do not meet guidelines established such as senior citizens that are eligible for PACENET -- and that's a program that was put in place by the City and the State some years ago that allowed senior citizens to negate any increases in their properties as long as they live in there or who don't qualify for any other City- or State-related programs for protection for significant increases in real estate, but those people also don't make a whole lot more money than those people that are 23 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. qualified. MR. McKEITHEN: Right.
So you're essentially sitting on a property that you may have purchased years ago for 7 25,000 and now you're sitting in the 8 middle of a neighborhood where the 9 average sale of a comparable house is 10 $500,000. I'm assuming you've 11 experienced that? 12 MR. McKEITHEN: Yes, sir. 13
What were 14 the responses in the things you put in 15 place to address that? 16 MR. McKEITHEN: In the District 17 of Columbia, we experienced a situation 18 where from 2001 to approximately 2006 the 19 real estate market ran pretty much 20 gangbusters. It really excelled at a very high rate. And so there was a situation where the City Council foresaw that a lot of residents would be displaced for the purposes of property taxes because, as the Councilman gave the 24 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. description, some individuals had been in their homes for years, and once the actual neighborhood and the real property in that neighborhood accelerated, they didn't necessarily have the income to keep up with the property taxes year in and year out. So the first thing we had in the District was a homestead exemption program, which initially took off a certain amount of money right off the bat off of any assessment. In addition to that, we had -- they instituted a tax cap program. The tax cap program capped off exactly how much in property taxes you would pay from one year to the next. For example, if the real estate market accelerated 15 percent or or 30 percent in one year, 20 a resident would only pay no more than ten percent from the previous year. So that was a circuit breaker, a stopgap that allowed many residents to actually continue to stay in their homes and not be displaced because of the actual 25 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. property taxes accelerating at a high rate. If I'm confirmed, I can most certainly give expertise in that area, because as the Director of Property Tax Assessments, my responsibility will be to ensure that the assessments are done annually at 100 percent of market value more than likely. But I can certainly lend expertise and give help where needed to see if you guys actually wanted to explore looking into something like that, because it does -- it went a long way in keeping a lot of District of Columbia residents in their homes.
Okay. I'm assuming based on conversations that you've had with members of the Administration that they told you that unfortunately in the City of Philadelphia we don't have the ability to implement those programs because State authorization is required, and that's something, frankly speaking, I don't know 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. if there's a whole lot you can do about it, not being an elected official at the State level. So I'm assuming they told you that. Am I correct in that assumption? MR. McKEITHEN: Well, they did mention several things, but not in too many specifics.
Well, I'm a little disappointed, because that's very important, because you need to know the environment for which you're probably going to be involved in, not having those opportunities to implement programs. I'm glad, at a minimum, you were in the position to implement the programs with the appropriate tools, but unfortunately, we don't have those tools, and given the recent history of the State, we're not really clear that that's going to be forthcoming. MR. McKEITHEN: Well, I think there may be other ways that we can possibly explore. The homestead -- well, 27 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. in the District of Columbia, we have three main ones, the homestead exemption program, the disabled and senior citizens tax relief program, and the actual tax cap program.
We only have one of those. MR. McKEITHEN: You only have one of those? Well, you can -- I'm quite sure that we can possibly explore increasing the levy at which you have -- for any one of the programs that you do have to ensure that more people are able to get in and more benefit is given to actual residents. That might be one avenue for us to explore. I know when I was in Virginia, Hampton, Virginia, we had to look at every year increasing the disabled and senior citizens tax relief program, because the threshold at which we had it set for income was not meeting the needs of the actual constituents and citizens. So we increased it, I think, at least 28 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. twice. So I think there might be any number of things we might want to look at, use some examples and models of other places and review possibly.
Okay. And -- okay. Again, I hate to be redundant, but it's unfortunate that the people didn't prepare you for that question, because that's a very, very pertinent question and issue given the possibility that we will go to full value in the very near future, and I'm, frankly speaking, surprised. MR. McKEITHEN: Well, I think that in all sincerity, my preparation was more geared towards the actual assessment, because I will set values, and my superiors, along working hand in hand with City Council, will set programs to actually assist the taxpayers. I may have expertise, but as a city assessor, I'll just be looking at the valuation perspective of it. I can lead you in the 29 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. right direction, but certainly my superiors and along with working hand in hand with City Council will be the actual individuals who set policy or attempt to set policy to give some degree of tax relief.
Okay. All right. That's actually a good comeback, because it basically tells me you're going to stay out of the politics of it all and do your job as assessor in a professional way. MR. McKEITHEN: Yes, sir.
All right. That's a good comeback. I was hoping that you didn't take the bait and say, Well, I'm going to figure out a way. That's not your responsibility. All right. Good. All right, Madam President. That's the most specific thing that I needed. You ultimately gave the right answer, from my perspective. Thank you, Madam President. 30 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I have to leave on Council business, unless we're finished questions?
Okay. May I be recorded as voting aye on all bills and resolutions?
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon. MR. McKEITHEN: Good afternoon, Councilman Green. 31 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc.
It's nice to see you again. I appreciate you taking the time to stop by my office and talk to me for a little while about this important topic. I just wanted to put a couple of things on the record, and then I have a few quick questions for you. First of all, from my perspective -- and I'm speaking only for myself -- there's nothing more important in the City of Philadelphia than moving to full value as quickly as possible. It is the cornerstone and keystone of all of the tax reform that we are going to need to do in the City of Philadelphia over the next five to eight years to make the City as competitive as possible, and that is a gradual shift, a very gradual shift -- and, once again, this is only my perspective -- from mobile taxes to immobile taxes, and of course, the only thing that's immobile is property. And in order to be able to make those shifts and adjust our tax base to make us more 32 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. competitive and create jobs, we have to have full value correct. And so I'm very pleased that you're here to begin that process. With respect to that, do you have a CAMA system in Washington, DC, which is a system like the one the BRT has spent millions on and installed? MR. McKEITHEN: In Washington, DC, we have a CAMA system and the vendor that we use is Vision.
Does the CAMA system work? MR. McKEITHEN: Yeah. Our CAMA system has been working for us quite well.
And what degree -- and you reassess annually every year? MR. McKEITHEN: Yes, sir, at 100 percent of market value.
And so it's not sort of pie in the sky to think that we can accomplish that in the City in 33 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. short order once you arrive? MR. McKEITHEN: Well, I'm quite sure we can accomplish that, but I don't -- "in short order" might be the actual caveat. I can say in Washington, DC we took time and effort to make sure our data was clean and did several things that the IAAO recommends, and over a period of time, we got a CAMA system and ensured that it was working properly.
When you were in my office, you mentioned that the IAA -- MR. McKEITHEN: IAAO.
-- IAAO basically acts as consultants occasionally and can come in and within three months sort of give you a report back about how everything is working, what it's looking -- what data you may or may not need for the CAMA system. Are you going to undertake that process here? MR. McKEITHEN: In every jurisdiction that I have pretty gone 34 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. into, I use IAAO oftentimes as a consultant to actually do a study. If I'm -- upon confirmation, I get in the office and actually see exactly what is going on, what needs to be looked at, that's a possibility, yeah. I will ask for an RFP for the IAAO to come in and sort of give us an analysis on the office.
That's great. We had a discussion about the data points necessary for properly valuing properties at market value, and we had a discussion that really we want the fewest number of data points as possible to have an accurate assessment. Is that a fair way to describe the way to do it? Because otherwise we're gathering information that's not going to move the needle in terms of values. MR. McKEITHEN: Right. Typically you want to collect the information that is going to drive value, 35 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. and that might be different in different localities, but typically that's what you want to capture, anything that is actually driving value. Now, what has to be done, in my opinion, is to actually make some analysis of the Philadelphia market and see what actually drives value, because what may drive value in Philadelphia may not necessarily drive value in Washington, DC or Denver, Colorado. But once that has been -- that analysis has been done, then, yes, we will look at what data points we need to collect.
And is that the kind of analysis that the IAAO does? MR. McKEITHEN: Well, they can make recommendations, but I was thinking more in terms of the IAAO coming in and looking at how you structure it, what your resources -- tools, your resources, things of that nature, exactly what had been done in the past, making some analysis of your data for sales activity. 36 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. But, yes, I'm quite sure they can give you some viewpoints on that.
With respect to the vendor you say you use for your CAMA system in Washington, DC, what do these vendors do? MR. McKEITHEN: The vendor actually has a product. For our purposes, the product was Vision. And they come in -- they respond to the RFP and they come in and different demos are done, and they come in and they convert your data that you have in the system that you're currently working in. And that process normally takes, depending on the size of your locality, might take a couple years. And then they will actually run models and things like that and test them to see how accurately they're running versus your data.
Now, we have ported, I think, everything into the CAMA system, all of the data that we have from the other system, already. So at least 37 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. all of the data that we had is in the CAMA system, is my understanding. MR. McKEITHEN: What I would want to see, Councilman Green, is if -- it may be in the system, but did it convert over properly. I need to run some analysis and some field checks on how clean it is, because one of the worst things you can do in this process is convert or try to analyze data that is not necessarily as accurate as possible. And so the IAAO has recommendations and they have different studies on proper ways to try to do this, and so I'll be more than willing to share some of that with you guys.
Is that part of the work that they would do? MR. McKEITHEN: Yeah. They would make reference to that. They will come in and they will look at your office in totality, if that's in fact what your RFP wants them to do, and that can include the technical, that can include 38 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. the resources, that can include the human resources and things of that nature. You can specify exactly how broad you want them to be or how specific you want them to be. But, you know, for Washington, DC, we had Vision and we had to convert our data, and it took us a while to make sure that our data was clean and converted properly, and that is one of the biggest tasks for a locality of this size. That takes time.
Well, without the benefit of having been in the office but having spoken to Mr. Negrin and others, how long do you think we should expect it to take to move to full value once you're in place? MR. McKEITHEN: With all due respect, without seeing everything, that's kind of hard to -- I've heard different perspectives.
I'm trying to pin you down, but I didn't expect you to take the bait, so that's fine. That's 39 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. okay. That's okay. I'm not even going to press it. That's fine. But let me ask you this: Have you ever seen a city going through this process suspend all assessments for a period of several years? MR. McKEITHEN: We did it in Washington, DC. We had a moratorium on assessments for approximately two years until we could get our act together. This was back in the '90s. We had issues where the citizens, similar to what I've heard here in Philadelphia, were in an uproar about their assessments and the accuracy, and so we had a moratorium on assessments and we actually did field inspections. We did a lot of what the IAAO recommends, starting from scratch with field inspections, data cleanup, a new data system, things of that nature, in a comprehensive process to make sure that we were capturing everything and making sure that we had as much clean data as possible, and then we tested it 40 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. against the actual market and we started rolling out assessments. But we took -- in Washington, DC back then, because this was such a large task, we did it in periods. We did a certain percentage of the city every year. We did it in, I think -- we did it in thirds. We had what was called tri-annual, so we did 30 percent -- 33 percent, 33 percent, 33 percent.
That's great. Listen, I don't have any more questions for you. I appreciate your testimony, and I'm looking forward to your becoming our Chief Assessor and fixing this system and giving our citizens confidence in our real estate assessment and appraisal system in the future. So thank you. I do just want to note that we've had the opportunity to look at Mr. Negrin's Executive Director's report. There's a lot of great work that was done while you were at the BRT, Rich, and 41 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. there's a lot of great sort of process and other staffing and changes that have -- that you undertook while you were there, and I just want to commend you for the work you did at the BRT. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Madam President. Just one quick follow-up actually on something that you will be responsible for. Can you tell me, in terms of your actual assessments and your assessors, what level of detail will be involved with the assessments of properties in the City of Philadelphia externally, and will there be internal assessments done based on structural issues with your problem? MR. McKEITHEN: Typically the goal is to find out as much about a property as possible, and when I say 42 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. "field inspections," we will actually be going out to the property. However, different jurisdictions have different approaches. In Washington, DC, we attempt to actually get in the properties, because a great deal of them are different in certain neighborhoods. However, if we can't obtain entry into a property, we will leave a door hanger or some sort of correspondence device where the people -- the actual residents can fill it out and send it back to us. So there's several ways that you can attempt to gather data. Some neighborhoods we don't actually need to go into the properties because we feel as though we have enough on the actual model of that particular neighborhood to where we don't necessarily have to go in. So it differs depending on the type of properties, the complexity of the properties and the neighborhoods.
Let me ask you a little more detailed question, 43 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. again, going back to some of the earlier issues I raised. In some areas you may have property that from the facade look very similar, but internally, particularly in the areas where you have a property that's just been renovated, gut rehab, all the, quote/unquote, contemporary things done -- MR. McKEITHEN: Bells and whistles.
Exactly. So that property, the market value of that property may actually be 400,000, and next door there may be a property from the facade looks like the same property, but inside there's all the original woodwork, everything is original, so therefore from the market value perspective, that wouldn't be comparable. Do you think that the agency should be involved in that level of detail or should they -- MR. McKEITHEN: You almost have 44 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. to, because they're going to sell for two different values.
Right. MR. McKEITHEN: Now, one of the things we use is -- and, once again, I have to get in the office and see exactly how everything is working, but the property that was fixed up should have taken out permits within a certain period of time. If your permitting process is working properly, then there will be some permits on record.
They'll actually get that tax abatement, too. MR. McKEITHEN: Also, there are different programs, like MLS and things of this nature, that once the property sells, you can attempt to obtain information about a property, and that's how you're setting up your models. So there are different ways to attempt to gather that sort of data.
So if say, for instance, the property, assuming they 45 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. got a permit and subsequent abatements, but therefore the value is going up dramatically because of the sale of the property, then that would automatically trigger -- the comp associated with that property may not be the same as the property next door -- MR. McKEITHEN: Exactly. It should.
So in your shop, you will say, Well, although the highest value in this neighborhood is X and based on the comps, we think the properties on that particular block should be comped to X, but this X property actually got redone, rehabbed extensively, so, therefore, we throw that comp out and then look at properties that haven't been -- MR. McKEITHEN: And I'm talking purely ideally here, because ideally you're right. Now, it also depends on how long ago that property was renovated, because the renovation may have been so 46 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. long ago that the market has caught up and it doesn't make any difference.
I'm talking about recent. That's kind of the degree -- MR. McKEITHEN: Right. What I'm going to attempt to do is to look at the market data and make some real hard analysis, what was renovated versus what was not, and then I'm going to see if there's a market difference in that. We're driven by the market, and so if there's a market difference to that, then those assessments should reflect that, but it may -- I have seen it, especially in this recent market where it has gone down over the last couple of years, with some renovation work, the actual resident didn't get dollar-for-dollar value, meaning they did a lot of renovation work, but the actual market value didn't go up that much. And so in instances like that, we have to still look at what that assessment should 47 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. be. In this particular market, in this day and age, you can have any number of examples. When we levy an assessment, I want us to have comparable data and justification to demonstrate why and how we got to that specific number.
Okay. All right. Great. Thank you. Thanks, Madam President. I'm done.
Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Seeing no one, thank you very much. MR. McKEITHEN: Thank you.
Thank you. Do we have anyone else to testify on this resolution? (No response.) 48 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc.
Seeing no one, this will conclude our public hearing. We will now go into a public meeting, and the Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco regarding Resolutions 100168, 100169, 100171 and 100172. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam President. I move that the resolutions that you have just read into the record be approved and that the rules of Council be suspended. Oh, we don't need that, right?
We don't need a suspension. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Be approved. Thank you. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution Nos. 100168, 100169, 100171, 100172 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.) 49 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc.
The ayes have it and the motion carries, and the record will reflect that Resolution 8 No. 100170 is being held. The Chair now recognizes Councilwoman Tasco regarding the following resolutions: 100381, 100382, 100383, 100384, 100385, 100386, 100387, 100388, 100389, 100390, 100391, 100392, 100393, 100394, 100395, 100396, 100397, 100398, 100399, 100400, 100401.
Madam President, I move that the resolutions that you just read be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that the resolutions be adopted. All in favor will say aye. 50 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller for a motion regarding Resolution No. 100469.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Resolution 13 100469 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Resolution 100469 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation. All in favor will indicate by saying aye. (Aye.)
Those opposed? 51 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. (No response.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco regarding Resolution 7 No. 100465.
Madam President, I move that Resolution 100465 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Resolution No. 100465 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation. All in favor will indicate by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it, the motion carries, and 52 6/15/10 - WHOLE - RES. 100168, etc. this concludes our public meeting. Thank you all very much. (Committee of the Whole concluded at 3:20 p.m.) - - - 53 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on June 15, 2010, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. -------------------- MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)