civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - August 16, 2023

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Aug 16, 20233h 50m

Letter of non-opposition from Wushan Oming Civic Association. There was no meeting held,

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but the letter mailed to near neighbors at RCO contact information listed on the zoning poster.

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Stephen Pollack is rejoining us as a

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panelist. Okay.

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Good afternoon,

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Mr. Pollack. Could you state your name, please,

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and spell for the court stenographer?

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Good afternoon, Chairman Bergman and members of the board.

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Stephen with the P-H-S-T-E-P-H-E-N, Pollack,

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P-O-L-L-O-C-K.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth,

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and nothing but the truth? I do, Mr.

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Chair. Could you identify your client

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in relationship to this property?

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My client is

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an entity known as 6031 Tarsdale LLC.

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The members are John and Robin Katagnus,

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and they are with me today.

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Our vice chair has just a few questions for you, sir.

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Yes.

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Good afternoon, counsel.

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Do you agree to weigh the reading of the refusal

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and stipulate to its accuracy?

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I do, Mr. Shahid.

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Have you emailed all the required documents

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and exhibits that are needed to proceed with this case

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five days in advance of this hearing?

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I believe we have.

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Thank you so much.

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Please proceed and share your screen.

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Okay.

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Mr. Chairman, as I like to do, if you could promote my associate, Nico Realbuto, to have

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the ability to share the screen, I would appreciate it.

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Is he being promoted?

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Let me see Nico's hand.

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Nico says his hand is up.

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Okay, we'll get him.

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I'm sorry, Jerry.

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Yes.

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We'll get him.

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Okay.

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It froze on me for a second.

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I kept clicking, but you couldn't hear me.

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I was talking.

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All right.

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Thank you.

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That's fine.

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Rope him in.

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Rope him in.

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He's been allowed to speak. Did you want to just put the screen up and there we go. So Mr. Chairman, members of the board, as I said, this is the owner is 60.

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Mr. Chairman, members of the board, as I said, this is the owner is 6031 Tarsdale L.C., but John and Robin Contagnes, our husband and wife team that have owned this since 2015.

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how this is on we're on the left-hand side building right where Nico has the little hand

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to the we are an existing boarding facility that was given a variance back in 2002 21 years ago by

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the zoning board to allow out eight housekeeping rooms with 12 persons and what we are asking for

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today, since we are in a CMX2 district, which doesn't allow this kind of use without a need

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for a variance. However, as I said, this is a pre-existing variance that's been in use

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continuously for 21 years at this point. What we're asking to do is convert the eight rooms

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into 12 rooms on interior alterations with an addition of a laundry room and a second means of

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egress that will allow 12 rooms for 12 people. So we're not asking to increase the number of

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people, just asking to give each individual the dignity of their own room. What John and Robin

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can testify to and affirm is that in the 21 years, they took over in 2015. They have one tenant

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who's been there since 2015 other people come for like two to three years these are people who

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some people were in the Wissanoming section of the city we have people that will rent who are

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working at Dietz and Watson's or a nearby pizza restaurant or other commercial that affords them

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an opportunity to be near where they're working but they don't want to have the

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uh problems and associated with home ownership or even an apartment kind of ownership um what we

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so mr paul can i mr paul can i mr paul mr paul so i understand this a little bit better

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um and hillary could jump in in 2002 zba approved variants for eight nine housing units maximum of

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12 people in a subsequent subsequent case board of building standards recommend that the number

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of documents be reduced to eight. That's why we supplied the board with our exhibit A13 as a

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supplement, Mr. Chairman. And I will, Nico, if you can go to that. This is, go ahead, this is the city

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certification statement, go up, that was supplied at settlement. Go show the actual city cert.

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So this city cert is dated 1-12-15, which is 2015, not 2002, where that note is coming from.

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And the representation made by the city of Philadelphia through L&I through the city certification statement was that, as you can see, Mr. Chair, it says eight non-housekeeping rooming units for a maximum of 12 persons,

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window air conditioners, and no persons from any court system via zoning board proviso.

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So I can have the antagonists testify that at the time they bought this, it was represented

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to them and certified by the city L&I department that it was eight rooming houses and 12 persons.

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So I understand what that note seems to indicate, but I also say that here is a

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a certification statement that comes 13 years later on 2015.

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If we go back to the deed,

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the Katagnus is bought on January 26th of 2015.

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So this, as you can see, the date was January 26th of 2015.

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So you can see that the city certification statement matches up with what

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was going on.

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What you intend to do today, you want a variance to go to 12 rooms.

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We just want to go and we can go to site plans 27, 28, and 29, Mr. Chair, to show you that what we're doing is this is the existing plan right now that shows four rooms on the second floor and go down just a little bit and four rooms on the first floor, go down.

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And then what we were going to do is split bigger rooms into 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, and have six on one floor and then six on the second, first floor.

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So go down.

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We were also providing a laundry.

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If you look at near room six, we're going to have a laundry little area for a washer dryer that will add the ability for.

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A little area for washer dryer that will add the ability for the residents to laundry their clothes. And we're also going to have a second means of egress, which I know that Mr. Hallamann will be happy to see that because I think that's what makes this comply with the building code and would really address any occupancy issue with regard to 8 versus 12.

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So that's where we're headed right now. We also have. So that's why I understand.

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Thank you, Mr. Apollo. Thank you. So, Mr. Chairman, members of the board at A-12 and Nico, if you can go to it, we have rules of the House and the rules of the House are very clear that no weapons of any kind, no drugs.

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And they are supplied with furnishings of a TV, a bed, a dresser, a night table, and they have longstanding residents who stay here who need the service.

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So they run it as a clean well lighted place that has hardwire smoke detectors. It has a central fire alarm that rings and is monitored. And so that attention is paid to the safety of the residents.

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We are attached next door to a nightclub that has been existing for a number of years in the neighborhood. And as we say, this has existed in the neighborhood for 21 years.

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We sent out over 108 letters to near neighbors with Sonoming has an interesting twist.

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They only hold a RCO official RCO meeting if they get any complaints.

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John Nolan, who I think signed the letter that we have a 10 from them saying there's no opposition.

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There were never never any complaints. And I, I realized that if over the years of since it's been in operation.

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and having a number of residents vary from 8 to 12 over the years.

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If there were complaints, we probably would have heard from the near neighbors.

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So we believe that this is a natural expansion of the existing property.

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It was granted a variance to allow this use in the first place,

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and that we're not really increasing what was originally granted with 12 members

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that the interior the alterations are interior so we're not blocking any light and air it's the

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least minimum variance to afford relief because we're not really trying to add anything or

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increase the number of of residents and what i will definitely have the contagnuses attest to is

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that they have found over the years it's very it's extremely difficult to find either a couple

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or two people that want to live in the same room together.

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And therefore, we're just trying to give people to modernize and accommodate the change in the type of living space

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and the dignity we want to supply to people and afford to people.

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So we believe that we're not detrimental to the health, safety and welfare,

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especially given that this property has existed with this use as a variance for more than 21 years.

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uh and um if you want to we can go through the pictures very quickly nico just to show the board

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so this is the stairway here's a bathroom keep going into one of the rooms the hall one of the

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hallways the the fire and the smoke detectors the heart the the alert one which is the central panel

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for fire security cameras are in use in the property that's a hallway leading a an alleyway

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leading out to Tarsdale Avenue. Keep going. The building on the left is our existing property.

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You can see the zoning posters in the front. Keep going. These are another shot in the front

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along Tarsdale Avenue. That's across the street. Keep going. Another, some more views across

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Tarsdale Avenue. This is the, on the right-hand side is the appliance store that's warehouse,

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a big warehouse that's right next to us keep going uh again these are this is us again go back up

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it's us with the we're the building on the left and that won't change at all so there'll be no

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physical changes for the neighborhood keep going same similar kind of view left hand side is our

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is that warehouse and as appliance store and then our twin building keep going and that's the

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corner grocery store right at the intersection. Keep going. There's a view of as we go up the

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property headed south on Tarsdale Avenue towards us. Keep going and keep going.

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south on Tarsdale Avenue towards us. Keep going and keep going. That's nothing. These are other

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homes or other commercial spaces to the south of us on the same side of Tarsdale Avenue. Keep going

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and go, keep going. And that's on the same side of Tarsdale Avenue across the way

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from us and keep going. More Tarsdale Avenue. There's our zoning posters. And the interesting

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thing, Mr. Chair, was if you look at the double poster on the right-hand side, we had to put up

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a little notice that told neighbors there will be no RCO meeting. Please contact John Nolan

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at his email address. So we did all that. So with that, and also the notice letters and everything

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of that nature, we have exhibits A1 through A12. I'll ask that they all be deemed admitted into

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the record and i would like to call at this time mr chair uh i think robin katagnus wants to be the

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spokesperson if robin we could promote robin excuse me mr pollack this is hillary i just had

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a quick question um so the entire property is is this residential use right there's no commercial

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oh no right okay okay because i noticed there was no refusal because this is a cmx2

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for a lack of commercial space on the ground floor so you know what well because the variant

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you know the variance was granted that allowed allowed allowed the entire building to be used

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for this residential use so i think what happened with writing the refusal they respected the fact

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that um there was a variance already granted and in essence we're coming back because we feel

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there's like sort of a change as i said we'll let the robin testify to it but a change in the whole

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way of uh treating people and giving them respect and at least giving them their own

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own room that's dictating trying to give single rooms within the exact same space with the same

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exact same number of people that were previously allowed back in 2002

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too. That's fine. Does that answer your question? Yeah, I think we're okay. It's just if there was

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a missed refusal, we would just want to note that for the record so that there weren't any issues

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later as you're going to have to go get building permits and that sort of thing that if you were

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guaranteed relief that all of the relief you needed was granted. I mean, I think incorporated

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in their refusal that says for the use of you know that it's not allowed I would think that

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what's covered in it is is the fact that they're using we're asking for the whole building it's

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pretty clear we're asking for the whole building so right right no I'm just saying I think there

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should have been an additional refusal just clear that you were you you were seeking a variance one

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additional variance that's that's all I would say but yeah I think you're fine all right thank you

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Thank you, Mr. Chair. Robin Katagnus has been allowed to speak. Could you please state your

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name as spelled for the court stenographer? Robin Katagnus, R-O-B-Y-N-C-A-T-A-G-N-U-S.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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Yes. Proceed. Hi, Robin. You are one of the principals in the ownership group known as

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6031 Tarsdale LLC correct yes okay and you along with your husband John have been operating the

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boarding facility since 2015 at this location and at the time that you took over the property

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there were eight eight rooms with 12 people in it and that was how it was represented and that's

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the city certification that we handed up that's what you received when you bought the property

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Is that correct? Okay. Now, I've made a big thing about that the marketplace has sort of changed,

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the modernized to try and keep up with what people want that you are finding in your experience

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that to give the people the dignity and the space they want, that you want to switch to allow,

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have 12 people have their own single room without having the share. Can you, is that correct? Is

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that what you're finding, you and John finding? Yes, that's correct. Typically working

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people and people who want to be independent and are taking care of themselves want their own

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private space. We've seen that more and more the last few years, especially as our spaces become

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nicer and, you know, the community has gotten to know it a little bit. People who come in really

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want their own room. Okay. And you've heard what I've, the other things that I stated on the record,

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are they true and correct to your best of your knowledge and belief? Yes. And all the other

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things that I said on the record with regard to how you've been operating and what we're

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discussing about the building, do you adopt that as your testimony today as if you had

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The building, do you adopt that as your testimony today as if you had spoken those words yourself?

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spoken those words?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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With that, Mr. Chair, I would rest and move for all our exhibits to be accepted.

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Yes, sir.

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Questions from the board?

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No, Mr. Chairman.

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Ish?

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No, Chair.

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Thank you.

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Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

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i see no hands here planning commission

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good afternoon chair peter bernard for the planning commission

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the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing cmx2 commercial mixed use

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at this location we feel that 12 single room occupancy units is excessive for the property

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previous approvals allowed for a maximum of eight units we also feel that

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Sorry, that line is not

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valid anymore. Accordingly, the Planning Commission recommends the

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Board deny the variance. Okay, thank you. Mr. Powell, do you have anything to comment before we

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vote? Again, Mr. Chair, I would

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say that given the testimony that

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it's been in use that way, the original variance was granted

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