Right. And I think it's that's important that that happens with parents before the first report period, because 205 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 when you get that progress -- when you get your report card for a kindergarten student, I think it has like 34 areas that the child --
Right. An you go, Wow, 34 things that a kindergartner needs to know, but part of it is tying shores, learning the telephone number, address. I'm just thinking of all the things I saw when my daughter was in kindergarten most recently. So I think it's real important that parents know. I know I'm an advocate for knowing what the curriculum's going to be for each grade as a parent, 'cause maybe that is a way that you could begin to supplement, to help, maybe get a tutor, whether the child is doing poorly or not. In my type of profession, sometimes I have to pay people to be available to help my daughter with homework because I'm not at home -- I'm at a community meeting or whatnot. But if you know in advance, as you're doing -- what the School District used to do, they used to give you that little booklet for each grade so you could really follow, you 206 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 know, what the curriculum was going to be per grade.
I think that's true and I think what it does also is, it makes parents aware of what is expected at each grade level.
Because, quite frequently, parents believe that children are doing well, when, in fact, they are not doing well for the grade they're assigned to.
We actually -- our charter was approved -- the Laboratory Charter School was approved for grades kindergarten through grade 12.
Okay, all right. Well, I don't have any more questions. Didn't I meet you at --
Yes. We had a program here in City Hall here last year and you were very helpful with that program, where we brought in children from 31 different schools to tell us what they thought was needed for school reform.
Mm-hmm, okay. Well, I'd like to thank you too for coming in today.
My name is Joe Proietta, and I am the Chief Administrator Officer of the Community Academy Philadelphia. We are one of the first four charter schools that were chartered by the School District of Philadelphia. We're also the first charter school in the State of Pennsylvania to graduate a 12th-grade class. This 208 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 year, we're currently -- we're grades to 12. And our charter was just renewed, so we've all gone through that renewal process as well as the initial charter process. And our charter was renewed for grades K to for the next five years. I'm also the President of the Philadelphia Alliance for Charter Schools, which is an organization of CAOs in Philadelphia. And one of the things that -- the reasons that I'm here today is that I was asked to kind of respond to some of the issues involved in the relationship between the School District of Philadelphia and charter schools. I thought it was very interesting, one thing that Dr. Meister, which was, she said that the systemic change based on current plans will take 12 years of the entire lifetime of a student that's going into 1st grade this year. Charter schools offer something a little bit different. I figure for Community Academy Philadelphia, that would be about a half an hour for that student to achieve the same change. That would be the interview and maybe a 10-minute test for 209 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 placement. Then that student can come to a charter school where the implementation of change had to happen much more quickly and where the student's problems and educational issues can be addressed directly. So charter schools do offer, for the City of Philadelphia, the opportunity to have schools that are addressing special needs of students. And addressing them now. The relationship between charter schools and the Board has improved over the five years that our charter has been in existence. And I also have another perspective that I have, which is that Community Academy Philadelphia is in its fourth year. However, we'll be graduating our 21st graduating class this year because we were the Community High School before.
So we started in 1980 and are now in our 21st year. We also were -- maybe it's like an asterisk after that, you know, 61 home runs with the asterisk. We were the first charter school to 210 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 be accredited by Middle States, and that's because we carried our accreditation with us from the Community High School. Laboratory School is the first charter school to go through the process of Middle States accreditation. So I have experience working with the School District of Philadelphia as a contractor and then four years' experience of working with the School District as a charter school. And as I said, I think there's been some significant improvement in the relationship between the Board of Education -- and when I say "the Board of Education," I'm talking about the members of the Board of Education itself and charter schools. That change has not been happening as quickly or as effectively with the bureaucracy of the School District. In dealing, though, with the Board, there are still some issues that I think are important, and that is that in Mr. Ramos's testimony today, he said that the implementation of Act 22, as far as the School District was concerned, was an implementation of choices that meet the School District's objectives. And I 211 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 think as charter schools -- I don't think we believe that that was the intent of Act 22, that all charter schools must meet the objectives of the School Board; that sometimes it could be the objectives of the community that need to be met, or that there are holes in the program the School District is offering and that charter schools are there to offer some kind of remediation for that. How that has kind of worked its way into the process is that because the Board feels that choices that meet the School District's objectives are the point of Act 22, they've a certain number of priorities, which were discussed earlier today, in the application process, and that some of those schools that were turned down were -- it was suggested in the reasons for turning them down that they were not meeting a set of priorities that were set by the School Board. And, again, I'm not sure that's the point of Act 22, because the charter school law should -- one of the objectives of the charter school law is to allow the community to respond to its own needs, and I think the Board needs to look at those issues. 212 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 But the more vexing issues, I believe, for charter schools come in terms of that gap that exists between the Board's attempt to communicate, to have that communication with charter schools, and a dialogue with charter schools, and then the implementation of decisions that are made by the Board. I also feel that this is not something that is just an issue with charter schools. Over the years I've had to deal with the School 12 District, I think I've -- it's become clearer and 13 clearer to me that sometimes the problems that we 14 see in schools are the result not of good policies 15 but of the implementation of those policies and 16 the Board's inability to take an idea and have 17 that idea carried through to the end. 18 And for charter schools, these become 19 issues of accounting, the way that we receive our 20 billing. Our bills are wrong almost every month, 21 the amount of money we receive; we have to check 22 them and go over them. The reason the bills are not correct is because the computer system is a problem, it doesn't work right. Students are not properly entered into the computer system and we 213 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 have difficulty removing students from the computer system. And if we tried to call the help desk, you can never get an answer to that. Exchange of records. It's been very difficult for charter schools, or any school, and that's why I think this might even apply to their own schools, in getting a school to send you records.
We have never received a special ed. packet from the School District for a special ed. student. We're now at the point where what we do is, we retest every student. If it comes up on the School District's computer that that student is a special education student, we will ask the family resource network for the information -- when the last IP was done, that kind of thing and a copy of, and it we won't get it. So we end up having to retest the student again. In any other part of the country now -- I mean, in any other part of the State, a charter school is a local educational authority; the State's made that determination. That means the School District schools IUs, intermediate units, that provide services to the school districts in 214 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 the area. Say, if it's Bucks County, there may be school districts in Bucks County and there's an 4 intermediate unit to provide help for particular 5 things like special education. Philadelphia, the 6 Intermediate Unit No. 26 is the School District of 7 Philadelphia. Therefore, we don't get the type of 8 help as a Philadelphia charter school for the 9 intermediate unit that our fellow charter schools 10 in Montgomery County or Bucks County or Delaware 11 County will get from their intermediate unit. 12 Things like doing special-education testing, 13 providing support services that would be expensive 14 to do individually like speech therapy and things 15 like that. 16 So one of the recommendations that we 17 have is that the School District and the IU be 18 separated, that the administration of those two 19 things become separated, because now, Philadelphia 20 County has more than one school district. In 21 fact, as Mr. Ramos pointed out, we now have the 22 third largest school district. We have the first 23 largest school district in Pennsylvania and we 24 have the third largest school district in 25 Pennsylvania inside Philadelphia County, inside 215 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 Intermediate Unit No. 26. The certification issue, too, is something that's been raised frequently involving charter schools. And as was mentioned earlier today, the certification issue is very often simply a matter of paper, and a charter school has available to it local certifications and State certifications for substitutes and intern certifications. And the problems that have come out in either the Auditor General's report or some of the reports of the press about charter schools not having sufficiently certified staff is really a matter of education and a matter of educating the CAOs to all of these other options that the public schools have available to them, which are also available to charter schools.
How costly is the special ed. testing to charter schools?
How many children do you have, how many students? 216 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131
Okay. You were a private school prior to becoming a charter school?
That's correct. As a private school, our sole business was as a contractor with the School District.
Okay, 'cause I do remember children being referred to your school years ago. I used to work for State Representative David Richardson and I worked on a lot of the education issues when I was in his office, so I do remember your other school.
And when you talk about meeting special needs of students, you're talking about the special ed. students such as speech therapy, as you just indicated? Or what are we talking here? What specifically do you mean that some of the -- hold on, let me just read 217 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 my question.
You spoke of charter schools being able to meet special needs of the students; what specific special needs are you talking about?
Okay. Certainly, that would mean special-education needs and, as you said I had mentioned, speech therapy. But it also refers to the ability to be more flexible than the public schools, be able to make adjustments in providing services to students where -- our school, for instance, besides the educational program itself, which is the main component of the school, we also provide a clinic, and we provide day care, and we have a psychiatrist one day a week, we have three therapists that come to the school. We have a contract with the University of Pennsylvania to train their nurse practitioners, their pediatric nurse practitioners, so they come in to the school one day a week and they go down to the day care or check on kids and make sure that they're, you know, getting proper inoculations and all those things. We do have a 218 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 school nurse, but we also have them coming in. We have a contract with Temple University, their children's hospital, so that we can send our students directly to a clinic that's about a block away from the school, and that they can go there if they need a shot if they're sick. That type of thing. So a charter school, I think, has an ability that those types of decisions -- just signing that kind of contract, making those kinds of adjustments in the program -- in the public school system could take years of going from one to the next to the next to the next till they get the right type of approval. Charter schools can respond quickly when there's an issue of need for the students.
Well, I do know that there are a number of charter schools that have called our office and they do have trouble getting those records from the School District, and I know that that is a key issue with charter schools. You said you've graduated how many charter-school graduating classes? 219 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131
1997 is when we became a charter school, so starting with the graduating of '98, '99, and 2000 and we'll be graduating our fourth class this June.
Okay. How involved is the school itself in senior activities? I'm asking that question for a reason.
That's a very good question. In terms of senior activities, do you mean like career planning and --
And also proms and class trips and all of those traditional kind of things that happen.
Yes, we do have all of those things. We just had our prom two Fridays ago.
Are you as an administrator -- or is the school itself involved in the prom?
Oh, yeah. And in fact, every member of the faculty attends the prom and always has. We've been doing it for -- I think it was our 17th prom. 220 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131
I just asked that because we have a couple different charter-school children that come into Council and volunteer, but I also have some other charter-school children that come to my office, and we've had to get a little bit too involved -- meaning my office -- in helping with the senior class activities. So I was just wondering how other charter school are handling them.
Right. We have a student government and the student government plans a good deal of the activities for the students. We have all of the things that seniors have: we have rings and pictures and a prom. We also do -- which is something kind of unique to us and it's done through all private funds. We do a European trip every year and have been doing that for seven years. This year, we took fifteen students to London, and then we went to the University of Oxford, and for two days, the students attended classes in secondary schools in Oxfordshire. And then we took the tunnel train over to Paris and came home from there. And next year, unless the world 221 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 situation changes a lot, we are actually planning a trip to China.
Okay, that's great. And how many of your children are going on to post-secondary education?
It's usually about 90 percent, with that percent being -- we do 9 have a very -- we are working in an area with a 10 very high pregnancy rate, and that's why we have a clinic and why we have day care in the school. So about 10 percent have issues of parenting and immediate work, needing to go into immediate work. But 90 percent of them will go to post-secondary training, and that is about 50 percent to four-year colleges and about percent to community colleges, and the 19 remainder going into the military or into a 20 training school. 21 And they start that process in their 22 junior year, where each student has to come up 23 with a plan of what they're going to do when they 24 graduate. 25
Okay, very good. 222 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 Thank you.
Thank you very much. Miss Bailey, could you please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
Sure. My name is Deirdre Bailey. I'm a policy analyst in the office of State Representative Dwight Evans. Good afternoon, Chairman Kenney.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak before you regarding our city's charter schools. I have been asked to specifically discuss the possibilities for amending Act 22, which is Pennsylvania's charter school law, and strategies for utilizing charter schools to strengthen neighborhoods and prevent middle-class flight. These are obviously two issues that Representative Evans has spent a tremendous amount of time thinking about and working to effectuate in Philadelphia. However, before I begin discussing 223 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 these particular matters, there are a few points that I would like to make regarding what I understand to be the overall goals of this hearing: assessing the relationship between the School District of Philadelphia and its charter schools. First to the District's credit, there are positive indications that District administrators are making real efforts to improve relations with charter schools. In particular, our office has been working closely with the district's Budget Director, Mr. Wayne Harris, to devise a more efficient and charter-friendly mechanism for handling the revenue-related aspects of charter schools, and also to work out kinks in the special-education funding distribution and reconciliation procedures between charter schools and the District. Within a month's time, Mr. Harris has come out to visit two charter schools and is planning to cosponsor, along with Representative Evans, a business information session for charter-school operators before the start of the next school year. Both Pedro Ramos 224 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 and Debra Kahn have also reached out to our office regarding the District's involvement with its charter schools. But there is still much more work to be done. The District's recent approval of only three charter schools was disheartening, especially since those who submit applications to start charter schools provide the lens in which our communities observe their greatest education needs, whether it is an effort to reduce class size, to serve at-risk children, to enhance special education, to provide culture exposure, or even to prepare our children for a high-tech society. We cannot afford to limit the creativity and approaches used to better public education. Most charter schools in Philadelphia have waiting lists at least the size of their present enrollment. Since charter schools represent the only public alternative for the majority of our children, we cannot allow such a large parental demand to go unmet; nor can we lose the opportunity to revitalize our communities through promising educational alternatives such as charter schools. 225 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 It was quite an anomaly to see on the same page of the Philadelphia Inquirer one story about Mayor Street's embracement of charter schools as a means of halting middle-class flight and then another story about the Board's rejection of out of 27 charter applications. It is 8 imperative that our City's highest office and its 9 school board work in unison work to ensure that 10 our schools become the anchors for transforming 11 neighborhoods. If this is the vision for public 12 schools, then perhaps the District should have 13 convened those applicants and expressed their 14 concerns before publicly denying them, which 15 tainted the image of charter schools. 16 On another note, the School District 17 has expressed concern about the financial impact 18 that charter schools have on its overall budget. 19 The District has suggested that a part of their 20 current deficit is the direct result of dollars 21 being spent on charter schools. In our opinion, 22 such financial pressure is a sign that charter 23 schools are fulfilling part of their original 24 purpose, which is to encourage productive competition by forcing the District to compete for 226 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 revenue.
The per-pupil allocations that charter schools receive never belonged to the District; instead, the money allotted for public education is meant for our children and should follow them to whatever learning environment their parents deem most appropriate. On the issue of possibly amending the enabling legislation, Act 22, there are two important legislative initiatives worth mentioning. The first amendment went into effect at the close of last year and pertains to the issue of transportation for charter-school children. Prior to the passage of this amendment, which requires that transportation be provided for students who attend charter schools in session on District-recognized holidays, the District refused to assume responsibility for getting these children to school. Consequently, our office fielded many calls from charter-school operators whose students were left on street corners, waiting to be transported to school by their normal yellow school bus. Representative Evans spearheaded this particular amendment only after unsuccessfully attempting to resolve this matter 227 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 with the School District's legal department. Another legislative initiative that Representative Evans is currently seeking cosponsorhip for relates to facilities funding for charter schools. As you may know, the lack of adequate capital facilities funding is one of the major challenges facing charter schools. Unlike neighboring public schools, charter schools in Pennsylvania are not eligible for State reimbursement for acquisition or renovation expenses. Providing adequate and affordable space to charter schools would help increase the educational options for our neediest children. In particular, this amendment would authorize payments to charter schools for the cost of facilities. Payments would be made annually from funds appropriated for this purpose from the Department of Education. Payments to charter schools would be made at a rate of $1,000 per pupil enrolled. There are also provisions included to increase the amount of funding allocated to the School District for similar facilities matters. In closing, I will briefly talk about 228 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 ways Representative Evans believes charter schools can help revitalize our neighborhoods and retain the City's middle-class tax base. Mayor Street in his latest endorsement of charter schools is joining an increasing number of big-city mayors who realize the future prosperity of their cities is directly linked to the quality of educational options provided to their youngest citizens. We applaud the Mayor for recognizing that the quality of schools plays a major role in transforming our neighborhoods into regional choice and high valued places where residents take pride in raising their children. Charter schools are an essential part of this plan. Let's face it, restoring faith in our public schools is not something that will happen overnight, although we must work every day as if it's our last chance. So what do we offer those families who decide where to live based on the quality of schools in a given area? Charter school are new and promising alternatives that at least suggest that the School District recognizes the need to provide an immediate response to failing schools. Charter schools can only work with the support of 229 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 the School District. Currently, there is no 3 office within the District specifically intended to provide high-quality technical assistance to charter schools. Much of the limited assistance that charter schools receive from the District is fragmented and spread out across several offices. The District must enhance and better organize services to charter schools.
The District should also take opportunities to publicize the good work of many of our charter schools by launching a public relations campaign intended to heighten the awareness about all of the exciting educational options offered in Philadelphia, including charter schools, magnet schools, and demonstration schools available to our children. Each charter school functioning somewhat as its own school district is really a small to midsize business in the community. Buildings and vacant land that were once eyesores have now been transformed into beautiful, safe places for children to be educated and for families to access in the evenings and on weekends. Charter schools also create employment 230 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 opportunities. Several charter schools have teachers and non-instructional staff who live in the surrounding community. Job creation, neighborhood improvements through blight elimination, and strong educational systems that work for all children and identifiably function in the public interest contribute greatly to the quality of life of our neighborhoods. These things do work wonders to ensure population retention and growth, restoring hope in the eyes of working and middle-class parents who vote with their feet by going elsewhere when urban city life is no longer conducive for their families. Thank you.
Thank you very much for your comments and thank you and Representative Evans for his foresight and courage in promoting this issue many years ago when it first was started. It took a lot of courage considering he's an urban Democrat to pursue this kind of effort, but I think he does have the intelligence and the foresight to understand that this was a major issue that was driving people from our 231 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 cities. And please take back -- I've said it to him before personally, but please take back to him my thanks for being one of the main people who brought this thing to light and brought it forward.
Absolutely. There were also a number of things that the representatives from the School District commented on regarding the relationship between the School District and the State and issues there. So if there were pending questions or issues that you all wanted to address regarding some of those things, I would be willing to address them as well.
Perhaps you could give me -- and I've asked the President of the Board and they're going to -- they talked a little bit about their view but are also going to get back to us with some numbers. And, again, I'm not an economics major, but if two-thirds of the students currently involved in the charter school program in Philadelphia came originally from the public -- the traditional public schools and one-third came from somewhere else outside that system, the charter schools are being funded at a 232 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 level of 70 percent of what is going now per pupil to the traditional public schools. Where does this -- where does the gap that the School District contends is the major economic burden for the School District because of the funding of charter schools through this method? Do you have any opinion on why they view the world this way and what we can do to change that view? I mean, how do they lose money?
Well, one of the things that has been said to us and Mark Masch, I believe, from the School Board came to visit us, and he has taken specific responsibility, I think, on the Board in terms of looking at their current fiscal situation and what things are contributing to that deficit, and they do have charter schools indicated as one of those things. And from what I understand the District to be saying is that they are not able to downsize at the same level in which money is being taken from the District to finance charter schools.
And as I said very simplistically to the panel from the School District was that it's more expensive, apparently, 233 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 to run the traditional public school than it is to run a charter school.
And the issues involving that are multifaceted, but it's contractual, it's cost of labor, but it's also administrative, it's also bureaucratic, and there's also other issues that are related to what goes into the cost of providing education per pupil in the traditional public schools vis-a-vis the charter schools. And I guess what has been sad about this whole debate is that charter schools -- and I know it's changing a little bit, because you've even said in your testimony that the Board's getting a little better -- a different attitude at least about charter schools. There's been this constant adversarial relationship that somehow for every student that goes into the charter school system is a direct threat and detriment to the public schools' fiscal health. And I reject that personally, and I think part of the problem has been with this whole debate that either you're for the public schools, and if you're for any other 234 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 method of education, you're against the public schools.
And that is just something that really has frustrated me and, you know, sometimes people view you as you're an opponent to public education. Well, again, as Representative Evans and as you have expressed, I'd like to give our parents in Philadelphia County as many choices as absolutely possible -- more choices than they have in the suburbs or in New Jersey. I mean, I watch TV and look at advertisements on television that New Jersey schools, they work.
Well, do they work in Camden, in Newark, in Hoboken? I mean, do they work in those places, or are they just telling us that these schools work? I think that if we can create an environment, as you said in your testimony, where the realm of choices are available for our parents, working-class, poor, middle-class, upper middle-class, the City will be better off for it. 235 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 But, again, it's breaking down this belief that somehow public indication -- or traditional public education should have the monopoly on public school financial resources, and I think that that's where the real philosophical split has come.
Right. We subscribe to the philosophy of the money following the child. And essentially, any public education system that is not in the public interest -- meaning is not properly educating its youth citizenry -- should be call to question on that. And as I mentioned in my testimony, one of the purposes in Act is to create that level 16 of competition and force school districts to 17 respond to the academic needs of their children or 18 face fiscal consequences as a result. 19
Good afternoon. 236 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131
I have a couple questions. Is there any data that will let us know about the performance of charter schools? I know most of them are not as old as Harambee and Community. But so we could really be more knowledgeable about the competition. I have a number of charter schools in my Councilmatic District, but pretty much, they're new. And I just wanted to know if there's been any data collected at the State level.
The State recently commissioned Western Michigan University to do a preliminary study of the effectiveness of Pennsylvania charter school, and I can get copies of that report for you all. But essentially what that report said is that, without commenting specifically on the academic performance, there is an increased interest in learning by students who attend charter schools. Charter schools attract a majority of children that would be labeled as "at-risk." And teachers also expressed confidence in the academic performance of the students that attend charter schools that some of the findings that came out of the that report. 237 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 In our district, the West Oak Lane Charter School is educating roughly 600 children over a longer school day and year. Teachers receive hours a month of structured 6 professional development, and both students and 7 teachers have over a 90 percent average daily 8 attendance rate. Seventy-two percent of West Oak 9 Lane Charter School's 3rd graders read at basic or 10 above on the SAT-9, and another 11 percent of the 11 3rd-graders read at proficient or above on the 12 SAT-9. And we believe that those type of percentages on standardized exams show a great deal of promise for where our charter schools are going. When John Skief was here, he also commented about the test results of his charter school, and the Philadelphia Inquirer and the Daily News both reported that his students' test scores exceed those of the District's.
That's really good and I'd really like -- I'm really interested in seeing that report once it's finished.
And I have 238 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 another question. One of the state reps told me that there have been two resolutions introduced to put a moratorium on approving any additional charter schools; I'd like to hear a little bit more about that. Do you know why?
And could you tell us where those resolutions originated from?
Representative Boyce and Representative -- I believe it's Representative Boyce. I don't want to quote the other representative because I'm not completely accurate on that. But essentially one of the resolutions is to place a moratorium on charter schools in Pennsylvania until a thorough study is done about the effectiveness of them. The other resolution 18 is essentially to authorize that this report take place. The concerns that apparently brought about those resolutions were around some things that, in all honesty, were discussed and negotiated prior to Act 22 being approved: issues around for-profit management, issues around teacher certification, issues around discrimination and what the enrollment policies of these charter 239 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 schools would be. And so our position on that is essentially that resolutions of that nature are counterproductive and that the real moratorium needs to be placed on the sub par education that our children are currently receiving, and that until we begin to look closely at the disparities in the type of education that our children are receiving versus children in some other school districts, we really cannot afford to limit the educational options that we are providing to our children.
What is the status of those resolutions? Have they been introduced, are they passed?
They're in their very initial stage. They have received some cosponsorship. I think they're still shopping it around, but it hasn't been introduced yet.
Good afternoon. 240 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131
Follow-up question. What county is this representative from, or what part of the State, Representative Boyce -- urban, rural?
Yes, his county does have charter schools, if I'm not mistaken. And also, you all should know that Sharmain Matlock-Turner was here earlier, as well as Ernest Jones, and they both coauthored a letter to Representative Boyce expressing their extreme disapproval with both of those resolutions.
Thank you very much. 241 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 (Break taken.) - - - (Proceedings resume.)
Thank you very much. The committee has now returned to session. Mr. Borowki, Tom Gentzel, Melanie Reiser, and the last person I have on my list is Jennifer Lowman. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
My name is Jay Borowski, and I am President of the Board of the Independence Charter School. The Independence Charter School is scheduled to open in September 2001 with 267 students in grades kindergarten through 3rd grade. It received a charter last July from the 242 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 Pennsylvania Charter Appeals Board. I would have preferred to report that the School District of Philadelphia supported, encouraged, and aided our endeavor, but it has done anything but, as evidenced by the District's continued pursuit of litigation to prevent us from ever opening. I could see the idea for ICS in the spring of 1998, watching my son play ball in the park, wondering where he would go to school. I was angry that the City gave me few options. Unresponsive public schools.
Mr. Borowski, could you speak up, please. Councilman Cohen is having a hard time hearing.
Unresponsive public schools, expensive private schools, or leave for the suburb. While watching friends and neighbors move to the suburbs, I wanted no part of this exodus, as I love living in Philadelphia. I thought a parent-sponsored, parent-run charter school would fill a void for my son and other children as well. Our primary goal was to establish a school accountable to parents and responsive to 243 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 their needs. This vision attracted like-minded individuals, and we undertook the arduous task of developing a charter-school proposal. This concept was very well-received in the community. When we held information booths at park festivals, invariably, parents came up to us and said, We wished you were around before we moved out of the City because a school like yours might have kept us here. Little did e know that the School District would be antagonistic to what we believed were our mutual goals. After we filed our application with the School District, the District retained an expert panel, which had been elaborated on earlier by School District representatives. This panel was to evaluate all charter applications. And the panel, though, in our case was apparently determined to find reasons to report unfavorably on us and others as well. In our case, they even questioned our community support in the face of a parent-led group that turned in many letters of support from a wide range of community and cultural organizations, civic associations, political leaders, and a petition signed by over 244 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 300 concerned Philadelphians. In February 2000, when the School Board decided in a split vote over the strenuous objections by some of its members to table the vote on proposed charter schools, thus violating Act 22's time requirements, we and seven other applicants exercised our right under the law to seek a determination by the State Charter Appeals Board, or CAB. The District filed motions to dismiss these appeals with the CAB. When it was dissatisfied with the CAB's approach to the appeals, the School District filed suit in Commonwealth Court involving us. After holding a hearing in Harrisburg, the court dismissed the suit as premature. We testified in front of the CAB, again facing opposition by the School District. Despite the District's best efforts, the CAB approved our charter on its merits in a unanimous decision. We naively supposed this would put to the rest the District's opposition. Even though the CAB approved just three of eight appeals from Philadelphia, the District still refused to end 245 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 its battles. It filed suits not just against the other charter recipients and us, but also filed writs of mandamus against the Commonwealth and the CAB. Apparently just recognizing that it has no 6 real arguments on the merits but still determined to stop us from opening, the District relied primarily on technical arguments that have absolutely no support in Act 22. As taxpayers in the City, we cannot understand why the School District is wasting precious resources on frivolous litigation as it faces insolvency. And as concerned parents, we are dismayed that the District continues to do all it can to limit our children's options. If the district loses its appeal in Commonwealth Court, as we expect, we no longer doubt that the District will take this matter to the Supreme Court. The District has shown no 20 willingness to back down from a fight it knows it cannot win. Its Web site does not list us as an approved charter school, nor acknowledged our existence. We have had no communications from the District except via its lawyers and lawsuits.
Excuse me. Are 246 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 their lawyers the District's lawyers or is this an outside --
The District's lawyers. Jackie Sparkman has represented the District at each of these hearings.
It is a depressing commentary that the District is intent on shutting us down even though we represent precisely the type of middle-class families that Mayor Street repeatedly says he wants to stay in the City. The District's actions belie his words. What message is the District sending, and is the Mayor aware of what the School District is actually doing? This brief description does not do just to what we have endured over the past 16 months, nor to the many ways the School District's actions have impeded our progress but our resolve has not waivered, and we intend to open on time and succeed, despite the best efforts of the District to shut us down before we even begin operations. Still, the next group of concerned citizens may not think it's worth the headaches we faced and leave Philadelphia altogether, and that would be 247 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 the School District's biggest sin. And just as a point earlier to sort of emphasize this a bit more. The Wissahickon Charter School group found out about charter schools from our efforts and they themselves formed a parent group that proposed the charter school that has been turned down just this past year. I think that the District's effort to shut us down as well as to take shots and to deny parents who are trying to do what they can for their communities will probably put an end to parent activities such as ours in the future.
And as president of ICS, my one request of the School District is to do the right thing, become an ally, not an adversary in the fight for quality public education for all children in Philadelphia.
Thank you. I have a request for the School District, those who are here and may be taking 248 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 notes for information. I'd like to know the person hours worked by the legal department of the School District on this particular appeal, and I'd also like to know the person hours worked on any other litigation, both at the CAB or at any of the Commonwealth or any Commonwealth Court proceedings -- I'm sure nothing has gone as far as beyond the Commonwealth, the Commonwealth Court. I'd like to know the person hours involved and what hourly rate they assigned the lawyers working at the School District so we could determine the cost of this litigation against these schools that have been approved by the State CAB. Thank you. Councilman, do you have a question, Councilman Cohen?
Yeah. If Mr. Borowski will move the microphone closer to him so I will be able to hear, I would like to know the nature of the students; I couldn't hear from what you were saying. What does your charter school represent, what geographic area, what kind of groupings?
I'd be happy to tell you that. We primarily started in the Society 249 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 Hill/Queen Village/Pennsport area.
I don't know I'm having trouble with your voice; I didn't have trouble with anybody else's voice.
Just my luck today. We formed primarily out of the Society Hill, Queen Village, and Pennsport areas. And "east of Center City" might be a better label to put on it. It's parent-led. Primarily the board is comprised of parents who either will have their children in the school this coming year, or when their children become of school age, they will enroll them. Our emphasis has been world cultures and languages. Our application went in November 1999. We filed our appeal to the Charter Appeals Board March 1st, after it was apparent that the City -- the School District planned to file late the Act time requirements. 22
Well, did the School District actually say no to your request for a charter school?
When they ultimately 250 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 took a vote, the vote was against us.
I believe it was March 13, 2000. Just by way of reference, we filed our appeal March 1st, we served both Jackie Sparkman as well as President Ramos of the Board. So they were aware of our appeal prior to the vote on March 13th.
Yes. That was the next step that was required under the law, is to appeal to the Charter Appeals Board.
The District filed a motion to dismiss our appeal as well as all of the other appealing charter organizations. Then thereafter --
Did they give reasons for their objection? Did the School District give reasons for their objections?
This is going back a bit, and I haven't looked at the documents in a while. But their primary objection was that the 75-day requirement between holding the public hearings and taking the vote was not mandatory and, therefore, they could take a vote after 75 days without any type of penalty; and, therefore, our appeal should be dismissed.
Did they give any reason why they were opposed to a charter school?
I don't recall. I just remember that their argument was primarily predicated on the wording in the law about the 75 days. Our response to their motion to dismiss is that under the appeal provision, it really didn't matter whether they took the vote on the 252 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 76th day or the 80th day; we had an absolute right to appeal if the total vote --
Well, I'm not dealing with the technicality, whether you had a right to appeal.
What I'm trying to find out is, why did the School District not grant your charter request?
The merits. They talked about -- I believe community support was one of the issues. The curriculum they did not feel met their requirements. I honestly don't know all of the other reasons. It's been a long time since I've looked at that document.
Mr. Chairman, is there anyone here from the School District that could --
There's people here from the School District, but I don't know whether or not they would be able to testify. 253 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131
Do they know why this charter was denied? (Witness comes forward.)
My name is Catherine Connor, and I'm the Associate Superintendent for Standards, Equity and Student Services. And my understanding is that we're not at liberty to talk about any particular charter application or why it was or was not --
Why? Why would you not be at liberty; isn't it a public matter?
Well, I think what we can do is provide you with a copy of the Board resolution of the --
That's not what I'm interested in; I'm interested in knowing from someone at the School Board why this charter was not granted.
I understand. And in the resolution that was passed on the date that the gentleman gave you, it lists the reasons why it was rejected.
Well, what are those reasons? 254 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131
Is there anybody here from the School Board that knows? 'Cause it seems outrageous that no charter was granted here, and I'm trying to find out to see if there was any sense at all to this situation.
I'm sorry. The charter was granted a hearing, the charter was eventually voted on. There are two issues: one is, why did the District turn it down; the second is the date on which we took the vote. There had been agreement with the charter unhappy about the District's position on both of those issues, but they are two separate issues, which you've been doing a good job of separating, what was the technical issues and what was the --
Well, what was the reason the charter was not granted originally?
Is there anybody here to knows the answer to that question?
I believe there is not 255 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 anyone here who can answer that question today.
It is an answer that has already been given to the charter. I don't know what it was --
You mean, the City Council has no right to inquire and get an answer?
Well, shouldn't somebody be here from the School District who would know the answer?
Councilman, in all fairness, Secretary Kahn, Pedro Ramos, the President, and Christine James-Brown, a member of the Board, were all here for a number of hours, and because the hearing has been going on since 10 o'clock, they did have to leave for other --
But how do we know 256 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 that they would know the answer?
Well, they -- I think that Miss James-Brown served on the committee, I think, that reviewed the charter application, so she probably would know, but I would suspect that they would have to go to some document at least to read it to know for sure exactly what it was. So we can request the document.
Well, it makes no 16 sense whatever to me have a hearing involving the School District and have the School District not represented all throughout the hearing with people and the personnel who would know the answer to questions that Councilmembers raise. I don't like to be told that the people involved were given it because it's my understanding that there are tax dollars involved and, therefore, it's public business and the public has the right to ask questions and get answers, even if our hearings 257 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 last longer.
I apologize deeply if I implied that you didn't have the right to the information. I am very clear that you have the right to the information; all I meant to suggest was that it wasn't that we had withheld it from the applicant at the time. I will be very happy to get you the information.
The only other thing that I was going to add is that at the Charter Appeals Board level they took a look at the no-vote from, you know the entire application that we submitted and they unanimously approved it, looked at the merits, and found that our application was meritorious and worthy of receiving a charter. That's all I know. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Thanks for waiting. Mr. Gentzel and Miss Reiser. You can 258 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 move over to that next chair. Could you please identify yourself for the record.
I will. Thank you. My name is Tom Gentzel. I'm with the Pennsylvania School Boards Association. We represent all of the school districts in Pennsylvania, including, I'm proud to say, the School District of Philadelphia. One of my roles at the association is to work with districts on issues relating to charter schools. It's fair to say, I think, in the four years since this law took effect that the face of public education has changed dramatically. You've heard the data -- I won't repeat all of this, I'll summarize of this testimony. We have now over 70 charter schools either approved or ready to operate this fall. One of the things I'd like to do in just a couple of machines is so sort of put in perspective the Philadelphia experience as it relates to what we have seen around the State. I think you may find that of some benefit. I think it's also fair to say there 259 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 really was not agreement up front when the legislature passed Act about what the expected 4 benefits would be: were charters simply intended 5 to create competition within the public school 6 system? were we expecting greater student 7 achievement? were we expecting cost savings? And 8 without knowing what those objectives were up 9 front, of course, it's difficult to measure the 10 impact or the success of the law. 11 But it's also fair to say -- and I 12 speak now as one who works with the legislature in 13 my role with the association. It's fair to say 14 that the State General Assembly did not expect 15 what we are seeing today. There are a number of 16 concerns that legislators are raising about 17 charter schools and they reflect some of the 18 issues that have already been brought up at this 19 hearing. 20 Charter schools are expensive. Their 21 cost is borne almost exclusively by school 22 districts, and that amount is determined by a formula in the law. Now, very briefly, we have seen -- and I think Philadelphia is great evidence of this -- 260 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 the impact of this approach to funding charter schools.
You say expensive, you say charter schools are expensive.
Less expensive than running the public schools at least in Philadelphia per pupil?
I just wanted to make sure you I understood what "expensive" meant. There's an expense related to --
Okay, but "expensive" denotes relative to something else.
Well, it does. 261 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131
And I wanted to just talk about that briefly. There are really four issues here. First, the amount determined by that formula in the charter school law is not related to the actual expense of the charter school, and that's just one, I think, statement of fact. There is a formula in the law that determine how much a district pays. Our research, looking at this on a statewide basis, is that many school districts are actually paying to charter schools more than their instructional; instructional costs, including heating and lighting buildings, paying teachers' salaries, buying textbooks, and so forth. So that's one way I mean "expense." In some cases, you could certainly argue that a school district funding a charter school is paying more per student for instruction than they are for instruction in their own district. Secondly --
One second. Is that the contention of the Philadelphia School 262 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 District, that they're paying more per pupil per charter in a charter system for instruction than it costs within the School District itself per pupil?
I know for a number of districts statewide that that is true, that the amount -- again, just talking about instructional costs. Because one of the difficulties -- and I have heard this as I have sat through this hearing today. Really what everybody says is true; it's just that we're comparing apples and oranges and some other kinds of fruit here. It's difficult to take a dollar amount that is spent in the traditional public schools and then compare that to a similar dollar amount in a charter. We're trying to find some basis of comparison. Charter schools, I think you heard, cost 70 percent -- Councilman, you were raising this earlier -- of a school district's cost. But you're comparing that to a lot of other fixed 263 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 costs that a school district has that don't necessarily relate to the charter school's --
And that is where the rub is, from my perspective. The question is, is that 30 percent differential, is that an amount of money that needs to be expended? And is that 30 percent differential going to instructional issues within the school system, within the classroom? Or is it money that because of custom and history and contract and labor costs and other things are layered on top of the cost of providing education, and we simply haven't had the will to change it? And I think that really is where the philosophical question lies. Is actually the charter school per-pupil cost really more reflective of what it costs to educate a kid? And is the rest of it all of the other things we've been paying and acquiescing to and dealing with over the past thirty or forty years? And I think that's where the real --
I think you ask a very important question. Interestingly enough, this is a question that's being discussed in Harrisburg 264 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 and in a lot of other places around charter schools. Let me take a shot at this question 'cause I've been intrigued by it from the first time I heard you ask it. I think what we have to look at is the total school district expenditure, and that includes an awful lot of things that are fixed costs; for example, debt service on all those 2 to 300 buildings and other facilities you have, those are long-term fixed costs of the school district. So when we're comparing a charter school's operating cost to a school district's total budget expenditure, I mean, they're really just two kinds of animal. They're all public schools -- that's what they have in common -- but the nature of their budgets are really quite different. I think Debbie Kahn made a point earlier that's worth repeating. The underlying problem is not an issue here in Philadelphia; it's a statewide problem. And that is that school districts are not supported -- no district in this state is funded by state government on a per-pupil basis. We're not receiving dollars that way. If Philadelphia grew by 10,000 students next year, 265 5/1/01 LEG. OVERSIGHT/EDUCATION RES. 010131 you wouldn't get 10,000 times some dollar amount. The problem is -- you get some percentage increase over last year. The problem is, for a charter school, under the formula in the law, they do get a per-pupil amount as each student leaves, and there is the budget question.
But aren't two-thirds of those same students in the same cohort? In Philadelphia at least. Those two-thirds of the students -- unless the testimony is incorrect--